TSH

[sodapop10]

Is it normal for your Tsh to go from 2.746 to .793  in 6 month?

[sodapop10]

Thought you might like an update on Adam, We went to see New Endo at Radys Childrens Hospital. First let me say thank god i kept (and I graphed for the new doc) all his blood work for the last 2 years. He has been experiencing hashitoxicosis. He has been confirmed Hashimotos, his thyroid is already starting to cobblestone. We are waiting for TSI before we treat him. If his TSI is positive then he will probably stay Hashitoxicosis, which is graves and hashimotos! The new endo is wonderful, he spent an hour with us! He listened, he explained. Maybe if the other Doctors had looked at his tests for the last 2 years they would have seen what the heck was going on with this kid. The doc did say he was concerned about his high b12 and folate and he was going to look into it.
Thank you all for your help and support.
Janis

[sodapop10]

Thank you!

[gimel]

Thought you might get some good info from this link.

http://synthroidhaters.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/depression-explored-with-dr-barry-durrant-peatfield/

[FTB4]

As per PM, It is eveident that he has Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, After lab results, has your MD precribed any Hormone replacement medication, a little boost in T3 might help a little with his depression, they may want to do an ultrasound of his thyroid after having seen his Antibody results.
Best Wishes FTB4

[sodapop10]

Ok, got our labs.
tsh 3.347 range .350-5.50  
t4 1.32     range .89-1.76    
t3 3.0       range 2.3-4.2
tpo 542    range <61
anti tg 186 range <41
vitamine b12 1023 range 211-911

here are his labs from 3 months ago
tsh .792  normal .350-5.500
ft4  1.55 normal .89-1.76
total t3 .87  normal .60-1.81
tpo 493
vit.d 25.5
ferritan 46
no free t3

[sodapop10]

The weird part is the cutting only lasted about 2 month back in 2011 after he started zoloft and when he tried to kill him self (started Lexapor) he wrapped a rope around his neck an pulled, enough to make red dots all over his face, I know hes smart an this is not away to kill yourself, I think he just wanted the craziness in his head to stop. He has not had any of those feelings or thoughts since march 2012. I did notice that his lymphs and lymphocytes are always high, and neutrophils are low. I believe this is probably cause he is sick all the time. He also had an ANA and it was negative, dont know what that covers.

[FTB4]

That range seems a little high to me, I will have to go back and check mine, but just like Thyroid ranges, they are all over the place. Please let us know how his thyroid tests come out Thank You FTB4

[sodapop10]

Calcium is 9.8 range is 8.6-10.8

[FTB4]

I had the throat issue, and that sounds like Strep Throat, I am so sorry to hear about what your son has been through, and as Barb has said, they must keep on testing and eliminating things to get to the cause, I had no idea how sick he was when you first posted. Barb is right when she mentioned Parathyroids, they are very small, but can cause a lot of trouble, they get little benign tumors and then have to be removed, but there is a blood test to determine, also I beleive the Calcium level would be over 10.0-10.2 to indicate an issue with Parathyroid, which would be on a CBC blood work as Serum Calcium.  Best Regards FTB4

[sodapop10]

no allergy meds. He is on 5000 mg a day of Vit. D and two capsules of fish oil. Today he got out of bed long enough to eat, back to bed and thats where he is now. 5:39pm He had the flu over new years and now his said his throat is killing him and his head hurts. (looked down his throat, puss balls all over) Hes always sick!  
You can share your suspicions with me!

[Barb135]

There could be so many things causing your son's symptoms, or even a combination of things. And the fact still remains that there may be some depression, etc and he will have to remain on some type of anti-depressant.

Does he take any medication(s) for the allergies?

His vitamin D level is very low; is he supplementing that?  Vitamin D deficiency can cause many thyroid like symptoms.

Has anyone looked into parathyroid issues? Most of us  have 4 parathyroids, which are located directly behind the thyroid; however, the only relationship they have with the thyroid is their location in the body.  Parathyroids help maintain balance of calcium in the blood and tissues that depend on calcium to function properly. Symptoms include tiring easily, weakness, vomiting/diarrhea, depression/forgetfulness......

Everything has to be tested and confirmed/ruled out. That's why it's so important to see those blood tests, then there may be suggestions of more to get.

Personally, I suspect a combination of issues at play here.

[sodapop10]

When adam was around 8 he would wake up crying and he was VERY irritable, he would throw up, just out of the blue, we went the whole medical route and were told hes fine. So we went to a psychiatrist, he said his throwing up was called stomach migraines. he put him on a low dose of trileptal. He was on this for about 6 months we weened him off and he has been fine until the age of 15. 7 years later, at first signs of  depression, I took him in to psych. she put him on Zoloft, within 6 weeks I found him cutting himself. He was admitted to a psych hospital, They said hes just depressed and they were going to put him on Zoloft. She said what your doing is not working, this is the first time she met with me, he had been in for 3 days, So i asked her why her Zoloft was better then my Zoloft, and told her hes already on it.  I took him home that day. Found a new psych. he said he was bipolar, put him on depakote and seraqul. I had to pull him out of school and do home hospital, got all the way up to 1500mg. Now he still has all the same symptoms but hes just numb and no hands shaking. Now the doc wants to add antidepressants. I Weened him off everything, he started feeling better and went back to school, this is when his tsh was 2.7 right in the middle! didn't last long, Started seeing psycho therapist, She said he needed to be on an antidepressant he was put on lexapro, this is when he tried to kill himself.  took him to another hospital after they evaluated him they said he doesn't need to be here. Found yet another Doc, they did a tovell test and said he was add. tried non stimulants and stimulants. Nope the child is still the same,   A new doc came in to replace our doc, she is the one we are seeing now. She is the one who ordered his blood work and found his tpo's then sent me to an endo. though She doesn't think his symptoms are from his thyroid.
How Adam has managed to hold a 3.5 grade point, I have no clue, his classes are AP classes, calculus, stats, etc. He misses more days then he goes, he struggles to go for a day or 2 and then sleeps for 24hr and up. I do drug test him. Clean.
He is always sick, had him tested for allergy's a few years ago, very allergic to trees, grass, pollen's, slight allergy to wheat, corn, soy, tomatoes, and nuts. I have worked for in a gym for 10 years, I feed him clean foods. I cant get him to work out though, he has no energy.
He has been treated for blood poisoning 3 times, staff infection on his head, confirmed swine flu and every other virus that's out there, tubes in ears, adenoids removed twice, they grew back, tonsils removed, it would take me all day to list his illnesses. He always has aches and pains, he sighs(exhales) very loudly, a lot, he doesn't realize he does it. He has no finger nails left to chew on so hes started chewing on the skin of his fingernails. His anxiety is out of control.  
I thought if I posted my story it might help, maybe someone else can see what I may be missing.

[Barb135]

"We went to GP yesterday and got a lab order, he told me that they dont use ft3 or reverse t3 anymore.  Am i nuts or is he?"   He is...... Free T3 is the main hormone, because it's the one that's actually used by the individual cells, while FT4 is a "storage hormone" that must be converted to FT3 prior to use.  TSH is simply a pituitary hormone, that tries to stimulate the thyroid if levels get too low, or make it stop producing if levels get too high.  FT3 and FT4 determine the hypo or hyper status of a person; antibody counts determine the disease factor.

There are some who think RT3 is not so important most of the time.  When FT3 is high, RT3 probably will be too.  FT4 is converted to both FT3 and RT3.  RT3 is produced in an attempt to prevent FT3 levels from becoming too high.  The conversion is a natural process and RT3 is not always, or even usually, the enemy.

TRab is the same as the TSI which tests for Graves Disease.

While a blood sugar of 85 is "normal" and for most people, even "good", there's always a possibility that your son's blood sugar is taking a nose dive every now and then, which can/will cause many of his symptoms.  When you don't know the problem, it's best not to leave any possibility out.  

Will be anxious to see the blood test results. I have a feeling you're going to find more than one issue.

[FTB4]

The two antibody tests for Hashimoto's are TPOab and Tgab and TSI for Graves Disease trab may have been a typo on my part, Sorry about that.
Tgab is more than likely the one. and all three of the anibody tests are important to determine if Autoimmune is or would be the cause of Thyroid disease. Take Care FTB4

[sodapop10]

The way he said it, I think he was just referring to reverse t3 cause he was reading my list an said " ft3 reverse t3 they don't do those test anymore"  and he put the reverse t3 on a different lab order sheet, in case my insurance wont pay for it. Either way I got the tests I needed . I will post as soon as i get them.

[sodapop10]

That was the MD (General practitioner) but he ordered the test anyway. We had my whole list done yesterday, We should have results by Monday or Tuesday! So everything on my list (above) was tested except trab. He said he didn't know what that was and could not find it.

[FTB4]

That Endo is Wacko, he actually said they don't use Free T3 anymore?
You cannot prove or disprove thyroid disease without the right antibody tests and the Free T3/Free T4, so I guess you need to find an MD, and it does not have to be an Endo, just an MD that will order these tests for you.
The other alternative is a company ON-Line that Barb suggested to another poster, it is "healthcheckusa" They will charge around 85.00 for TSH Free T4 and Free T3, then after payment they will send you to a LABCORP Facility, where they will do the blood draw and lab work, your results will be made available on line or mail. If you cannot find another MD to order these tests, then you have this option. Without an MD's order, I doubt your insurance will cover the 85.00 expense, but at least you can see if thyroid is causing your sons issues, if not then at least you will know either way. Best Wishes FTB4

[sodapop10]

No worries Barb, I understand your reaction, I am not expressing myself clearly, I tend to do that. She wants him to start the remeron while still on the lexapro at 20 mg for 2 weeks and then take him off lexapro. Im sure he may need some thing but to just keep uping him AGAIN on mood stabilizers just dont sit right with me. She also wanted to up him to 60mg of lexapro and I said no way. That was before the remeron and limictal. Very frustrating, we have been doing this for 2 years he is still the same, fatigue is getting worse. some days he sleeps more then 24 hrs.
We went to GP yesterday and got a lab order, he told me that they dont use ft3 or reverse t3 anymore. Am i nuts or is he? He did they anyway.The 85 was not fasting! I had thought about Diabetes before, as well as lymes and a whole other list i had him checked for. But looking at the labs from then  I dont see anything for blood sugar. I have noticed  that his t4 levels are always high, above the range. But at one point when he started to feel better and went back to school his tsh was right in the middle and his t4 was high but still on chart, I can see a pattern when he feel better( not well, just better). Im just lost, I dont know if im reaching in the right or wrong direction. Then endo we went to said his symptoms are not from his thyroid. I went to get his records from him the other day and there is not one note, piece of paper anything other then the labs i gave him and the labs he did. No thoughts no we seen him on this day, nothing. That I find weird!
Hopefully I will have his labs by Monday, I will post them.
I appreciate you caring!

[Barb135]

First, let me apologize to, both, you and FTB4,  for my strong reaction to the comments about "get him off all that mental crap". It was kind of a "knee jerk" because I had no idea how much experience you've had  weaning your son off medications in the past, and all kinds of nasty visions danced in my head. I see that my fear was unfounded, since you've weaned him off other meds.

Do be aware, though, there ARE people who need anti-depressants and/or anti-anxiety med, even after thyroid levels are adequate and stable.  I, personally, had to begin an anti-anxiety med, even though my thyroid levels were good.

"I also found a major drug interaction with lexapro and remeron".  Yes, but you said in one post that the doctor was switching him "from" lexapro "to" remeron, which means he wouldn't be on them both at the same time.  Or did that not happen? I noticed in a subsequent post you said he dropped the dosage on the lexapro and lamictil, but I don't see anything about the remeron there.  Maybe you could clarify that?

Was the blood sugar level of 85, a fasting level? Looking at that, and back at symptoms, I have to wonder if some of his symptoms may be caused by hypoglycemia (low blood sugar).  There are different conditions that cause the same or similar symptoms.

Suggest that you ask for a hemoglobin A1c which will tell what his blood sugar levels have been over a 2-3 month period.  May be a dead end, or could be something important.  Always best to leave no stones unturned.

Am really looking forward to seeing the FT3 and TSI tests.

[sodapop10]

His glucose is 85 range is 70-140, not sure if that is what is needed to test. I will add diabetes to his lab list, just to be safe.

[Barb135]

I thoroughly understand your dilemma; my point was to not just stop the anti-depressants.  Of course, if there are drug interactions, you need to talk to the doctor before combining the drugs.

I strongly suggest that you get the TSI test to confirm/rule out Graves.  Also the Free T3 test.  Your son's FT4 is high in the range, but not alarmingly so; We need to see about the FT3, since that's the hormone actually taken into the cells.

Have you had your son tested for diabetes?  His symptoms sound very similar to my son's behavior just prior to his diagnosis of Type I diabetes, which is also an autoimmune disease.

[sodapop10]

I also found a major drug interaction with lexapro and remeron, so not going to start that until I talk to doc, she wants him to keep taking the lexapro with the remeron for 2 weeks.

[sodapop10]

Barb it took me months to get him of depakote, His Doc has put him down to 20 mg of lexapro and 25 of lamictil yesterday. they are the lowest dose, I would still cut them or go every other day to ween him. I struggle with keeping him on these, it has been 2 years and they are not working. He has never had a suicidal thought until he started antidepressants. Dont know if they just weren't working or if it was the meds. All I can do is follow my gut. besides the 2 hours a week with a psycho therapist at 125 an hour and does not accept insurance. I hauled him to a inpatient hospital, he was evaluated and I was told he does not need to be there. I hold him accountable for his actions, if he dont go to school He pays the price. He is very intelligent, he scored 98% in math on his ACT and an overall score of 25, only did a 75% in arts and Lit. I'm just so frustrated, I know he doesn't  do drugs, he doesn't  go anywhere, but i still still drug test him. Hes clean. I hope we are on the right track, but the endo says his symptoms are not from his thyroid, we go for blood work today. and then off to new endo.

[Barb135]

The high TPOab indicates that your son has Hashimoto's, which is generally associated with being hypothyroid, but can also be characterized by periods of hyperthyroidism.

Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglobulin (TSI) is the definitive test for Graves Disease.

TSH is a pituitary hormone and fluctuates greatly, even intra day. It's the FT3 and FT4 that you need to look at.

You can't just take your son off the medications without his doctor's okay.  Yes, Graves Disease can cause his symptoms, but you need to work on this with his doctors, not just taking the meds away.  Many times, these types of medication are necessary to help keep things under control until the thyroid can be adequately regulated.  A PERSON MUST BE PROPERLY WEANED FROM THAT TYPE OF MEDICATION. DO NOT JUST STOP IT.