Those of us on Armour- #2

[laura1967]

Here is #2 thread that goes along with our first one which was taking too long to load due to it being so long!!
For anyone new, there is a lot of posts to read in the first thread and then please post on this one. Lets keep it going full of great information and support!!

[felicia77]

Hi Laura
I have been on synthroid for about 18 years. They found my under active thyroid when I had developed a virus. I have had diarrhea everyday for the past 18 years. I have had colonoscopies diagnosed with IBS.  I just recently started researching everything because of being treated for environmental allergies.  I have hay fever and have since I was a kid.  I read that people wit
h hay fever should not take synthroid due to the ingredient acacia. I also have a corn pollen allergy and have read that I should avoid all form as of corn. Synthroid has cornstarch. I went off my synthroid about as month ago. My belly ache that I would get an hour after taking it has sent away and the diarrhea is subsiding .  Have you read anything about the acacia? And now I need to find an alternative med. without cornstarch .felicia

[gimel]

Those symptoms are consistent with being hypothyroid.  However, before starting on thyroid meds, I think it would be a good idea to get some additional testing done, to determine your current levels before meds.

Specifically I would test again for Free T3 and Free T4.  Also, I would test for TPO ab and TG ab, to see if those results have increased to a  level that would be diagnosed as Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, which is the most common cause of diagnosed hypothyroidism.  Since hypo patients are frequently low in other areas, that can have similar symptoms, I would also test for Vitamin A, D, B12 and ferritin.  Since you are taking Isocort, you should get a 24 hour urine cortisol test to see what your levels are currently.  One further test I recommend is Reverse T3.  Some researchers report that the best measure of tissue thyroid levels is the ratio of Free T3 to Reverse T3.  

If you will please get those tests done and post results and their reference ranges, members will be glad to help interpret results and advise further.

[Tiggy72]

Hi Gimel,
Thanks for responding. The Two antibody test ranges were simply listed as under 40 and under 35 which are the normal range. They didn't give me the actual numbers. Those results were from early 2011 as well which is before the T4 and stuff started to decline.

I've loads of hypo symptoms which has led me to investigate - fatigue, brain fog, cold hands and feet, hair loss, thinning eye brows, weight gain, slow heart rate, low blood pressure, always feeling cold, no sex drive, increasingly heavy periods and frequency as well as huge clots (all starting earlier this year).

As I said, I was considering looking into taking Armour - no, I'm not on any thyroid meds. I am taking Isocort for adrenal support but thats it.

Thanks for your input!

[gimel]

Were you having symptoms that led you to get the thyroid tests done?  If so, what symptoms are you having?  Are you on any thyroid meds now?  If so, what type and dose?  

Your test results aren't really jumping around.  TSH has been increasing, but is still in a range that is not a strong indicator of thyroid issues.  Consistent with the increasing TSH, your Free T4 and free T3 have been declining.  This pattern I would normally associate with early stages of Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, which is the most common cause of diagnosed hypothyroidism.  The tests for Hashi's are TPO ab and TG ab.  I'm not quite sure of the numbers posted for those tests.  Is the <40 a test result?  If so, what is the range they recognize on the lab report?  Same question for the <35 result.

[Tiggy72]

Hi there,
I haven't been diagnosed but think there is something wrong with my thyroid results. I was wondering if anyone would be able to comment from their experience? I'm considering starting on Armour myself as am getting nowhere with doctors.

TSH (0.27 - 4.2)
May 2012  1.76, Oct 2011    1.2, July 2011    0.95
Is is normal to jump around like this in under a year?

Free T4 (12-22)
May 2012  12.7, Oct 2011    14.8, July 2011    15.3

Free T3 (3.9-6.0)
May 2012   4.99, July 2011  5.4

Thyroid Peroxidase IgG (finger ***** test) 12.3 (range 0-75)
Anti-Thyroglobulin <40 (normal)
Anti-Thyroperoxidase <35 (normal)

[gimel]

One grain of Armour (60 mg) is the equivalent of somewhere between 75 and 100 mcg of T4 med.  It all depends on what assumption is made for the relative biological activity of T3 to T4.  Some say it is a 4 to 1 ratio.   So with 9 mcg of T3 in one grain of Armour, multiplied by 4, plus the 39 mcg of T4 in one grain, that is equivalent to 75 mcg of T4.  If you assume it to be a higher ratio, then one grain of Armour can replace up to 100 mcg of T4.  Personally I prefer the one grain to 75 mcg of T4, because of my own experience with switching to Armour from Synthroid.  

From your many hypo symptoms, it seems that you have never been adequately medicated.  You really should request to be tested for Free T3 and free T4 (not the same as Total T3 and T4) each time you go in for testing.  Also would be a good idea to test for Vitamin A, D, B12, ferritin, and a full iron test panel.  

A good thyroid doctor will treat a hypo patient clinically by testing and adjusting Free T3 and Free T4 as necessary to relieve symptoms, without being constrained by resultant TSH levels.  Symptom relief should be all important, not just test results.   With Hashimoto's, you can expect to have to continue to increase your meds to offset the loss of natural thyroid hormone.  Based on the experience of myself and many members I doubt that your Endo would agree with all this, but then what success have you had with your doctors so far????  

If you will get that testing done and post results and reference ranges shown on the lab report, members will be glad to help interpret and advise further.  

[pat8144]

This is a reply to a very old post but I have to ask how things have gone.  I have been on levo for about 6 yrs, first at 50 then at 75.  I never felt any difference in my fatigue, weakness, dry skin, weight, depression etc....Nothing happened except my labs (TSH, T4) came back better.

New PCP found nodules and Hashimoto's.  2 years trying to control bp.  I have been on up to 5 different bp meds at a time.  Hypertension specialist got me down to 2 pills, 3 meds because one is a combo pill.

I have RA so I know what joint pain is.  BONE pain has ended me in ER but joint pain never has.

I am just getting ready for my first trial of Armour.  Doc is "figuring out equivalent dose" and going to talk to my endo.  He expects some resistance but says we can try it anyway.

My question really has to do with the bp and bone pain connection to thyroid.  If you are hypo on labs can thyroid sporatically spike bp to "malignant hypertension" levels like 228/114?

[simplybasic]

also wondering if i have low adrenals (cortisol test 4/11 was 9.3); what is the salt water help? I have hashimotos and my last TSH test was march at 2.270 i am on armour 90 now and feeling better than when i was on synth 100 (tsh 0.393)  i am still very tired and cannot loose any weight and have severe migrane headaches at my cycle time. any suggestions or help?

[teri34]

NORTH ALABAMA GIRL NEEDS A DOCTOR I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism about 5 years ago. I diagnosed myself. I started out with the hyper symptoms...waking me in my sleep. I was sweating, heart racing, feet & hands cold, pupils dilated, and waking every 30 mins all night. all docs said it was anxiety & all in my head. Eventually a year later everything stopped and i started having PVC's (which i still have occasionally today). Stress test is normal. I think it is my hypothroidism. I take Synthroid 75 mcg & Cytomel 2.5 mcg. I really want the PVC's to go away! My friend recently had a heart attack at 38. The heart doc believes her endo had her on TOO MUCH synthroid!!!?? Go figure. Help me find a doctor that knows what he is doing. So I do not have to live in fear of my heart failing me. I want my life back with my two boys & husband. They want me back too. :(

[rasty2]

These are my test results through Healthcheckusa.com:

Test Description                Result Range Units
TSH004264                32.94 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL
Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum010389  2.4 2.0-4.4 pg/mL
T4,Free(Direct)019745 0.79     0.82-1.77 ng/dL

Looks like I'm close to the healthy target range for FT3 and FT4, but still way over the range for TSH. What do you think?

[mamaherrera]

Has anyone noticed more hair shed from taking armour?? I"ve been taking it just a week, 30 mg and have experienced more hair shed, which is stressing for me because hair loss is my major complaint of the hypo.

[LazyMoose]

I would not add anything else at the moment. Give Armour a good try for a few months to actually see what hypo thyroid symptoms it helps relieve. Instead of relying on your body to convert T4 to the hormone all of your cells need, T3, you are now ingesting it directly.

Another note: When switching from a T4 med (levo) that stays in you body longer than a T3 med, its best to work your way up to the dosage. Many doctors do not thinks of this, thus patients quite commonly go temporarily hyper untill the old T4 wears off.

The T3 in Amour most likely will eliminate the brain fog, help mood, and help any body pain resulting from low thyroid levels.

This is an old thread, might want to start your own thread for your specific questions.

[KDHCatt]

Hi.  I just started my first dose of Armour this morning.  I had been on 175 Levoxyl for nearly a year.  In October I went for my routine Gyn visit, got the ol' thyroid blood test and BAM!  TSH 19.....crap.  Unfortunately, my Gyn didn't bother to call me with this information and I didn't find out until over 6 weeks later.  Thankfully, my endo was able to see me this week and he is wonderful!  He actually suggested Armour instead of upping my Lev dosage to over 215.  

He's started me on 150 and I'm taking it in the morning per his instructions, scheduled for bloodwork in 6 weeks.  No headache so far.   (I don't have the other results, T4, T3, etc right now but they were run.)

I guess it's sort of perverse to be thankful that my number was so high, but I've felt so rotten the past months.  It takes everything I've got to just get out of bed.  I don't do anything anymore...some days I don't even take a shower.  I had even talked to my Gyn about changing to a different anti-depressant, thinking anything would help.

Anyway, sorry to babble on but it's great to find others feeling the same as I do...but hopefully better.

Also, any suggestions on (brain fog....can't come up with the word...grrr) additional things (i.e. multi-vitamins) that I could be taking to help.  Thanks for any help (I need lots, LOL).

[Barb135]

While TSH of 44 is definitely cause for concern, you also need the other tests to be able to guide your treatment properly.  If you can get your doctor to do the FT3 and FT4, that's great, but if not, I'd go the other route.

[rasty2]

Thanks, I'll check into that. I would like to have an objective baseline of more than just TSH before starting "treatment."

Doc thought a TSH of 44 by itself was cause to start a script of 75 mcg levothyroxine.

[Barb135]

You may want to think about getting tested for the Free T3 and Free T4, even if insurance doesn't cover it, because we see WAY too many people being treated, based only on TSH and they remain sick, in spite of so called "normal" TSH levels.  I'm one, who was kept very ill for over a year, because of a doctor who only treated by TSH.

No one should ever be given a medication with the T3 component, without being tested for both FT3 and FT4.  T3 med is much more quickly metabolized than T4 med and without proper dosing, you can go hyper very quickly.

There are websites, from which you can purpose a standard thyroid panel (TSH, FT3 and FT4) for approximately $85 (out of pocket).  You get the lab order, then set up with a local lab for the blood draw; within a day or two, you have your results.  One that I've used in the past is healthcheckusa.

[rasty2]

oops, sorry for the double post: didn't see my post and your reply listed until now.

I got the idea that taking T4 unopposed--without accompanying T3--had more bad side effects from reading the posts of others who had taken it from this and other website threads.

No other tests were done besides the routine physical blood work. maybe that is because my insurance covers nothing else at this time.

[rasty2]

Got a physical bc my blood pressure was reading high. Main conclusion of blood work: TSH of 44 but without major symptoms.

Doc scripted T4 of 75 mcg. Have since been forewarned by this community to avoid unopposed T4 due to its adverse effects.
THANK YOU FOR THAT.

I am 50, and take a generous multi-vitamin, but no never-ending prescriptions. Really don't want to start when I feel fine, either. But doc says, do it. If I did, I would probably start on 60 of Armour, cut into fourths; start at a quarter dose for two weeks and work my way up every few weeks to the full dosage, depending on my body's reaction.

Any suggestions?

[Barb135]

This is a very old (and long) thread and I haven't read it word for word, but I'm not sure where you get that unopposed T4 med has adverse effects.  There are many of us on T4 meds who do just  fine.

Those who have "adverse effects", are usually over medicated or have a reaction to the binders/fillers in the medication.

Were there any thyroid tests, other than TSH done?  You need to have the actual thyroid hormones, Free T3 and Free T4 tested, as well.  TSH is pituitary hormone and should never be used, alone, to diagnose/treat a thyroid issue.  

In addition, 75 mcg of T4 med may be too high a starting dose.  Many find it better to start at a much lower dose, and work up slowly, allowing the body to become accustomed to having the hormones it's been doing without.

If you have results for the Free T3 and Free T4, you would get better attention if you start your own thread, rather than posting on one as old as this, since most of those members are no longer on the forum.

[rasty2]

Got a physical bc my blood pressure was reading high. Main conclusion of blood work: TSH of 44 but without major symptoms.

Doc scripted T4 of 75 mcg. Have since been forewarned by this community to avoid unopposed T4 due to its adverse effects.
THANK YOU FOR THAT.

I am 50, and take a generous multi-vitamin, but no never-ending prescriptions. Really don't want to start when I feel fine, either. But doc says, do it. If I did, I would probably start on 60 of Armour, cut into fourths; start at a quarter dose for two weeks and work my way up every few weeks to the full dosage, depending on my body's reaction.

Any suggestions?

[dawnw101]

I am on my third day of Armour. I really believe that I am starting to feel better already. My chest is not as tight,breathing calmer, and more energy. I am very hopeful!

[colingam]

Thank you guys for responding . I love this forum !,.My endo sd my TSH was definitely 4.5 and he thought I was crazy by asking him about my free T4 and T3. I went ahead and filled my script for the Armour today ,..but I split the 120 mg in half ,..(because I read that I might get a slight headache ,..and I had one ALL DAY :(
I will not be going back to that endo (sticking with my family doctor ) and like you sd Stella ,..he shouldn't be anyone's endo !I hope my headache doesn't last too long ,..I also bought some selenium and L Tyrosine today (I saw that on this forum as well ),..I'm going to start a new thread

[Applesan]

Where do you get information on acceptable free T3 and free T4 levels?  My last TSH was 3.13 which my endo said was fine.  I tried to tell her that I wasn't feeling well still and she just brushed me off and told me to go to my primary care doctor.  I had RAI therapy over a year ago and wanted to ask her about parathyroid glands since I've heard they can be damaged with that procedure.  Some of the symptoms I have mirror those of parathyroid issues.  SHe just wants nothing to do with me, especially since I asked for Armour over Levoxyl.  I just can't be sick anymore; it's been over a year.

[stella5349]

I think you should fire the endo and go with your PCP. If you feel you have given your original med some time and still feel bad - you can try Armour and see if it benefits you.

The only thing and I stress as Gimel does. You need to rely more on the free T3 - Free T4 labs than using the TSH as a guideline.

I'd like to see you continue this post on your own thread. This is a very long post and many will not visit this as it takes a long time to load.

I don't want to vent to hard on your endo. If you say he looked at the TSH at a 4.5 and wanted to lower your meds... especially when you have NO thyroid.....

he should not be anybody's doctor then in my book.

Especially since he ignored your quest to "see" if Armour may help. Way too closed minded of a practioner regardless of his "endo" status.