Those of us on Armour and working on dosages and increases

[laura1967]

I thought it would be nice to have a thread of all of us on Armour that have recently started or have been on for a while. We can talk about our increases and symptoms.....how we are doing. Easy way to keep in contact with each other and support each other as we sssslllllooooowwwwwlllly and patiently find our optimum dosage! I think from what I have read and what Stella has said, that patience is the key with Armour. It is not an overnight fix at finding proper dosages. Many of these conversion charts are incorrect and our doctors are not educated at how to prescribe and treat with it. So, we have to educated ourselves and gently educated our doctors on how to medicate us. LOL Sometimes easier said than done when they are use to the synthroid dosages and treatment.
And once again......SSSTTTTEEEELLLLAAAA.......we need you and thank you for you advice and help!!!!   :)

[gimel]

This is an old thread and Laura has not participated on the Forum for some time.  I was on Synthroid for over 25 years and still had lingering hypo symptoms until learning about the importance of Free T3.  I finally got tested for Free T3 and confirmed it as too low in the range, and the cause of my hypo symptoms.  Convinced my doctor to switch me to Armour and after some tweaking of dosage I felt better than I could even remember.  

If you would please post your thyroid related test results and reference ranges shown on the lab report,  we could better answer you questions.   Also, please tell us your T4 med dosage before and after the switch to Armour.  What is the Armour dosage?  

Have you been tested for Vitamin D, B12 and ferritin?  If so, please post those as well.

[Franhanna]

at Laura, what city are you in? I am new to Armour have been on Levo or Synthroid for past 10 yrs....finally got my doc to let me try. what can I expect? I actually feel a bit better and it's only been a week but have had a headache, some muscle pain in shoulder and arm but don't feel so gloomy. Am I just thinking all this. Also, stomach may be adjusting as have had some diahrrea but not bad.

[cuzsis]

Hi, I'm kind of in the same boat, but I've been on Armour since early Nov. Just upped the dose here in late Dec. Still fatigued, with back pain, neckpain, GI issues, hair falling out, dry skin ect...

However! I did read somewhere that you can do a quasi-test for your adrenals at home! Go into a dark room with a mirror and a flashlight. Let your eyes adjust for a minute. Then take the flashlight and shine it at your eye from the *side* (like pointing just forward of your temple).

You iris should constrict with the sudden influx of light. If, however, after 30 seconds (or sooner) it starts getting larger again and trying to constrict repeatedly, you have adrenal fatigue! I forget the mechanisms exactly, something about whatever causes the constriction in the iris tends to be in low supply when you have adrenal fatigue. It's worth looking up!

I hear you on the internet research...there is *so* much info out there. And doctors aren't as versed as we'd like.

And money, ugh, in the same boat there too.

Best wishes! Good luck!!! :D

[gimel]

With T3 meds, they build up in the blood very quickly.  So increasing every 2-3 weeks is okay.  With T4 med, the buildup is much slower, so doctors like to wait for 4-6 weeks before re-testing and increasing dosage, if needed.

[gymcoach61]

Thanks for the online resources. My symptoms have been headaches, dizziness after bending over, fatigue, brain fog, bloating & gas (but I've never been able to burp and thought it was due to that), dry skin, hoarse voice, thinning outsides of eyebrows, and I've had carpal tunnel in right wrist for years (magnetic bracelet helps).

The Paleo Autoimmune Protocol info. http://www.thepaleomom.com/autoimmunity/the-autoimmune-protocol
I've been eating meat, fats, veggies and a bit of fruit for 7 wks. Drinking only water or iced decaf green tea (okay, I had a cup of Morning Thunder for the caffeine a few times for work). Gut has felt great and I'm not getting so dizzy, but the headaches and fatigue persist.

I'm hoping to get some energy from Armour (6 days). What are your thoughts on dosing increases (I've started with 30mg)?

[gimel]

I have no idea where you doctor would get the idea that your thyroid was still salvageable.  With Hashimoto's, the antithyroid antibodies attack the gland until, after an extended period, the gland no longer produces hormone.  Along the way, as the production of thyroid hormone is diminished, it must be replaced with thyroid meds adequate to relieve hypothyroid symptoms.

Speaking of symptoms, please look at this list of 26 typical hypo symptoms and tell us about any that you have.  Also please explain the protocol you mentioned being on.

http://endocrine-system.emedtv.com/hypothyroidism/hypothyroidism-symptoms-and-signs.html

Just looking at your test results, there is plenty of room to adjust your Free T3 and Free T4 upward to relieve symptoms.  The ranges are far too broad to be functional for everyone.   A good thyroid doctor will treat a hypo patient clinically by testing and adjusting Free T3 and Free T4 as necessary to relieve symptoms, without being constrained by resultant TSH levels.  You can get some good insight into clinical treatment from this letter written by a good thyroid doctor for patients that he sometimes consults with after initial tests and evaluation.  The letter is then sent to the participating doctor of the patient to help guide treatment.  In the letter, please note the statement, "the ultimate criterion for dose adjustment must always be the clinical response of the patient."

http://hormonerestoration.com/files/ThyroidPMD.pdf

I expect that your greatest need is going to be a good thyroid doctor that will treat clinically as described.  One thing further for now.  You might be able to get an idea if your adrenals are really a concern or not by trying the temperature tests outlined in this link.  Maybe that could at least save you the expense of testing.

http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

[gymcoach61]

oops, okay - 3 different labs in 3 months.

04/13 Quest: TSH 12.23 (.40-4.5)
05/13 LabCorp: TSH 5.610 (.45-4.5), T3 2.6 (2.0-4.4), T4 1.01 (.82-1.77), RT3 13.8 (9.2-24.1)
TGB 25 (0-40)
TPO 355 (0-34)
07/13 CLS: TSH 4.2 (.36-3.74), T3 3.0 (2.18-3.98), T4 .9 (.76-1.46)
TPO 421.5 (0-9.0)

The one from LabCorp came with a doctor's phone review and he said that since my TSH fluctuated it meant my thyroid was still salvageable. I was encouraged to do the elimination diet - check symptoms and do another lab in 5-6 mo. In the meantime I was "assigned" a reg. doctor who wanted to see if the diet had any impact in the 6 wks. I've been on it.

[gimel]

Just because your test results are within the so-called "normal" ranges does not mean they are adequate for you.  The ranges are far too broad.  

Please post your T3, T4, and RT3 results and reference ranges shown on the lab report.

[gymcoach61]

Hi everyone, I'm new here

Recently diagnosed with Hashimoto's and convinced I have adrenal fatigue, hypoglycemia and hormone imbalance. Overwhelmed with internet research and looking for support.

TSH went from 12.23 (4/13) to 5.61 (5/13) to 4.2 (7/13) on autoimmune protocol

T3, T4, RT3 in normal ranges
TPO Ab went from 355 (5/13) to 421.5 (7/13)

I have headaches and fatigue but my gut feels better on the protocol. Take lots of supplements and have been on 30mg Armour for 5 days. I want to get a saliva test for adrenals and hormones but having financial restraints at this time.

[gimel]

I can think of several possibilities, including that increasing med reduced your TSH and resulted in less natural thyroid hormone being produced by your thyroid gland.  Remember that the serum thyroid hormone levels are the sum of both endogenous and exogenous sources.  Also, although the dose was doubled, the increase was only 30 mg of Armour Thyroid, which is not a large amount.  The 30 mg increase is only 18 mcg of T4,and 4.5 mcg of T3.  

Many hypo patients find that their total serum levels of Free T3 and Free T4 don't start rising until medication is increased enough that TSH is suppressed.  So, if you are still having hypo symptoms, which I would expect that you are from those test results, then you really need to keep increasing slowly until symptoms are relieved.  

Also, since hypo patients are frequently too low in the ranges for Vitamin D, B12, and ferritin, you should have those tested as well.

[Aquiggle]

Was curious to get your thoughts about some recent test results I got...

Beginning of the year, my numbers were:
TSH - .878 (range .4-4.5)
T4 - 1.08 (range .8-1.8)
T3 - 2.3 (range: 2.3-4.2)

Because of T3 being so low, my doc felt there was a conversion problem from 4-->3, and put me on 30mg grain Armour which has both T3/4.  I did feel a bit more energy after, but she'd also put me on a boat load of B6 at the same time.  After a few months we retested and the results were really wacky.

TSH - .833
T4 - .81
T3 - 2.9

Given that I was actually taking T4, it was really unexpected to see that number drop.  So, she doubled my dose to 60mg.  And after a couple months, I just got my results:

TSH - .74
T4 - .8
T3 - 2.8

So now ALL of them have dropped!  What the heck!

She thought about potentially switching me over to synthetics because people sometimes do react differently, but decided against it.  For now I'm staying on the same dosage, because she seems to think that something else might be the issue.

Do you have any insight?  

[chandw]

Taking armour in moring 60mg feel good but by noon wearing out  neck is swelling  Dr. said that does not happen. TSH 1.43 do i need to increase armour

[peteyjames123316]

your tsh sounds wrong. a high reading is 5.0 plus. anyways , i read Dr, Arems book thryoid solutions and he says combining Synthroid with Armour gets the best results but it takes weeks to effect. ive been on this combo for 2 weeks and i am still exhausted. i get more blood work in a month. as far as vitamins , get a good brand. check the b-12 on the lable if its cyanocobalamin dont get it. this is an inferior b-12 that the majority of manufactures use like one a day and centrum...... Davinci, and Bryan j Richards vitamins are 2 that dont use the inferior b-12 that actually contains cyanide.Thorne is a vitamin company that has a good Basic B supplement that you can take with your regular multi/vitamin/mineral. Amazon should have these items. also avoid soy and raw broccolli,califllower.and have cholesterol, blood pressure, trigs,  checked, because a hypo thryoid does raise these systems. . smoking can damage the thryoid so quitting is the best thing you could have done. the Armour shouldnt be giving you any bad symptoms. make sure its armour from forrrest labs not a otc internet brand. and ask doc to add synthroid( again dont settle for generic) demand synthroid. combine these  and get the best vitamins. good luck!

[peteyjames123316]

yes it most defintely effects your sleep. tired all day, i mean like your tranquilized when you crash. i crash exactly the same time everyday. i work a 3-11 pm shift and crash at 6:30pm. ive only been at work 3.5 hrs! i have to get outside and get fresh air, run around a bit, to not fall asleep. then when i get home i cant sleep. yes insomnia. i recently started on 60 mgs of armour and .25 mcgs of synthroid. i read dr. arem`s book thryoid solution and he got the best results using this combo. the synthetic synthroid with the Armour. i had a tsh of 5.3 and will get more blood work in a month and will post my results. and be careful of cholesterol, blood pressure, trigs, because a hypo thryoid raises all of these.

[gimel]

Just because your T3 and T4 test results were within the so-called "normal" range does not mean that is adequate for YOU.  The ranges are far too broad to be functional ranges for most hypo patients.  I won't get into all the details of why the ranges are too broad, but suffice to say that many members, myself included, say that symptom relief required Free T3 to be in the upper third of its range and Free T4 to be around the middle of its range.  Free T3 is the most important because it largely regulates metabolism and many other body functions.  Scientific studies have shown that Free F3 correlated best with hypo symptoms, while Free T4 and TSH did not correlate at all.

So, if you will please post those "normal" test results members will be glad to comment on the adequacy of tests and treatment.  

[NJDEE]

Can someone help me. I quit smoking Jan 2012 and had a stressful family situation over the past few months. Went to primary for routine & came back with a TSH of 49.36 this is while on 30mg of Armour. Sent to endo dr who bumped me up to 45. I just feel weird. Toooo many symptoms to describe but functioning. I'm due back with primary mid dec and endo end jan. he didn't seem too concerned did reflex test, felt neck said ok. Had MRI on pituitary months ago was ok. Should I be asking for any addl labs? Like adrenals, etc.? I don't want to freak out but I'm concerned. My t3&4 were normal. I heard quitting smoking & stress can raise you tsh. I take a multivitamin and seem to have a reaction to dairy. My b-12 is always low. I'm 39 years young, don't drink or smoke and eat good. 60 pound weight gain since Jan I assumed was from quitting smoking & premenopause that I assumed I was. Can anyone give me suggestions on what to check, take? The information on hypothyroid is overwhelming! My docs are pretty good about meeting my requests as I'm a pretty assertive patient! Thank u all!!!!

[NJDEE]

Can someone help me. I quit smoking Jan 2012 and had a stressful family situation over the past few months. Went to primary for routine & came back with a TSH of 49.36 this is while on 30mg of Armour. Sent to endo dr who bumped me up to 45. I just feel weird. Toooo many symptoms to describe but functioning. I'm due back with primary mid dec and endo end jan. he didn't seem too concerned did reflex test, felt neck said ok. Had MRI on pituitary months ago was ok. Should I be asking for any addl labs? Like adrenals, etc.? I don't want to freak out but I'm concerned. My t3&4 were normal. I heard quitting smoking & stress can raise you tsh. I take a multivitamin and seem to have a reaction to dairy. My b-12 is always low. I'm 39 years young, don't drink or smoke and eat good. 60 pound weight gain since Jan I assumed was from quitting smoking & premenopause that I assumed I was. Can anyone give me suggestions on what to check, take? The information on hypothyroid is overwhelming! My docs are pretty good about meeting my requests as I'm a pretty assertive patient! Thank u all!!!!

[juliedaniels]

Armor has both T3 and T4. Synthroid has only T4 hormone. Armor more natural. Synthroid is man made entirely.

[bobcat135]

Are bad headaches normal when you start armour?  I started 2 wks ago, and now i have headaches.  Skin & hair are better, but fatigue isn't.  Maybe slightly better, but i'm havin real problems with the headaches.

[ElainedeBeaux]

thank you Barb, I'm starting to feel tired and more so than when I was not on the meds of 50mcg Oroxine and half grain of Armour, I'm taking Isocort and have been for some time.Just wondering if once the t4 build up in system if this might settle down.  I don't know of anyone in Perth who understands adrenals thyroid relation or of there are they that are fully booked with not seeing new patients. One Dr I went to suggested I take Dr Wilsons protocol but it just did not agree with me as this Dr said that if I fixed adrenals then the thyroid would get better.  But I figure I am 57 and have had this problem for awhile so some damage has been done.I have really tried to talk to my Dr and as kind as he is he just sees fix thyroid then adrenals come good as it is on axis???????????I will continue to pray to my Lord in Heaven and read on net. Can't stop as my homocystein levels very high due (i"m sure) to low thyroid which Dr said will get better when I've been on meds for awhile.

[eeemas58]

Please explain what you mean by"when a person crashes".

[Barb135]

I'm far from being well versed on adrenals, but it's my understanding that once adrenal issues are under control, you should be able to proceed with thyroid hormone replacement.  

Everyone is different and there are no hard and fast rules about increasing; depends on your need and tolerance.

We've had some that increase Armour every couple of weeks, for a while, if they tolerate it, but you should discuss it with your doctor to make sure adrenal function is adequate on medication.  

[ElainedeBeaux]

Would you know the answer to my question as i do have challenged adrenals.

[Barb135]

Stella hasn't participated in the forum, for some time, so it's unlikely she will respond to your question.