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Thyroid help
have hypothyroidism, was diagnosed roughly 1 year ago, new I was for a year before that, Now every time I have blood work done I get different results, My question should results be different every time? ? example 5/20/11 t3 free 3.3,then on 8/24/11 t3 free 2.same dates t4 free 1.3 on 5/20 and on 8/24 1.1
I have noticed losing hair very badly the last few months moody as well, I know its off has to be have not been able to lose any weight, my chap and dry skin is back breaking nails and not sleeping threw, awake every couple of hrs for at least an hour or more, had a ultra sound for enlargement but said to be normal but constant cough or should I say needing to clear throat .
Drs answer to all of this is thyroid is Normal, wants me to take a breathing test to see how many calories I need for intake a day?, well I know I am eating healthy walking at least 2 miles daily. still gaining weight. (also going threw menopause ) said my levels are where they are suppose to be
Testosterone total 21
progesterone 0.5
FSH 80.0
LH 39.4
Estrogen total 212
I have no idea on any of these, was not given reference ranges for theses .
all I do know Is I am not feeling well, even a few months a go I felt so much better than now.
I also am taking 20 mg of Pravastatin for High Cholesterol, was taking 10 she doubled dose because it was not moving was 265 down to 208, but up from a few months a go was 202
Is it time to get another DR? she is MD and into weight loss and skin care as well.
I have noticed losing hair very badly the last few months moody as well, I know its off has to be have not been able to lose any weight, my chap and dry skin is back breaking nails and not sleeping threw, awake every couple of hrs for at least an hour or more, had a ultra sound for enlargement but said to be normal but constant cough or should I say needing to clear throat .
Drs answer to all of this is thyroid is Normal, wants me to take a breathing test to see how many calories I need for intake a day?, well I know I am eating healthy walking at least 2 miles daily. still gaining weight. (also going threw menopause ) said my levels are where they are suppose to be
Testosterone total 21
progesterone 0.5
FSH 80.0
LH 39.4
Estrogen total 212
I have no idea on any of these, was not given reference ranges for theses .
all I do know Is I am not feeling well, even a few months a go I felt so much better than now.
I also am taking 20 mg of Pravastatin for High Cholesterol, was taking 10 she doubled dose because it was not moving was 265 down to 208, but up from a few months a go was 202
Is it time to get another DR? she is MD and into weight loss and skin care as well.
Best Answer
Congrats. You are making progress. Now you just need to gradually increase your Armour dosage until symptoms are relieved. Remember this quote from the link I gave you above.
"I have prescribed natural dessicated thyroid for your patient (Armour or Nature-Throid). These contain T4 and T3 (40mcg and 9mcg respectively
per 60mg). They are more effective than T4 therapy for most patients. Since they provide more T3 than the thyroid gland produces, the well-replaced patient’s free T4 will be around the middle of its range or lower, and the FT3 will be high-“normal” or slightly high before the AM dose."
"I have prescribed natural dessicated thyroid for your patient (Armour or Nature-Throid). These contain T4 and T3 (40mcg and 9mcg respectively
per 60mg). They are more effective than T4 therapy for most patients. Since they provide more T3 than the thyroid gland produces, the well-replaced patient’s free T4 will be around the middle of its range or lower, and the FT3 will be high-“normal” or slightly high before the AM dose."
Hope everyone has a wonderful Turkey day!
got results of blood work this am threw e mail, been on Armor now for about 5 weeks maybe 6 off syntroid, Ok results are strange to me
Free t4 is 0.94 which was 1.3 on syntroid (50), free t3 is 2.8 on armor, which was 2.6 on syntroid TSH is 0.94 lower as well.
Ok so where do I go from here, weird thing is I realy thought I was feeling a bit better, still losing hair but sleeping a little better and a little more energy .
but again Hair is still falling out badly. they put me on the 60 of armor, maybe I just need a little more??
thanks in advance for your imput
got results of blood work this am threw e mail, been on Armor now for about 5 weeks maybe 6 off syntroid, Ok results are strange to me
Free t4 is 0.94 which was 1.3 on syntroid (50), free t3 is 2.8 on armor, which was 2.6 on syntroid TSH is 0.94 lower as well.
Ok so where do I go from here, weird thing is I realy thought I was feeling a bit better, still losing hair but sleeping a little better and a little more energy .
but again Hair is still falling out badly. they put me on the 60 of armor, maybe I just need a little more??
thanks in advance for your imput
Thanks everyone, I am patiently waiting for the change, LOL will see how this works out!! again, thank you
I think the first sign that you are getting better will be a sense of simply feeling better. hair, nails, dry skin etc and many symptoms seem to lag behind the blood levels. I would not be surprised if you don't notice changes in those things for a month or more later. But who knows, everyone is different.
gimel stated that 1 grain of Armour would have about the same amount of T4 as 50 mcg of synthroid. I'm not sure how 1 grain and 60 mg compare.
The important thing I think is the added T3 component of the Armour. Some say they can feel the difference in as little as a few days. But don't give up if that does not happen to you. That and you may not yet have enough to be in your sweet spot.
As stated before. Testing can be done again in about a week or two as that will be enough time for T3 to stabilize. It is the T4 that takes 6 weeks or so. But if in fact the T4 medication is essentially unchanged then I wouldn't worry about that. You may want to ask your Dr if he would like to have you get a test a week prior to him seeing you so that he will have that data when he first meets with you.
gimel stated that 1 grain of Armour would have about the same amount of T4 as 50 mcg of synthroid. I'm not sure how 1 grain and 60 mg compare.
The important thing I think is the added T3 component of the Armour. Some say they can feel the difference in as little as a few days. But don't give up if that does not happen to you. That and you may not yet have enough to be in your sweet spot.
As stated before. Testing can be done again in about a week or two as that will be enough time for T3 to stabilize. It is the T4 that takes 6 weeks or so. But if in fact the T4 medication is essentially unchanged then I wouldn't worry about that. You may want to ask your Dr if he would like to have you get a test a week prior to him seeing you so that he will have that data when he first meets with you.
Ok went to drs Office Yesterday today I started on Armour 60 mg , was on 50 Synthroid now if I understand correctly . My T4 Free should stay about the same and my T3 should start to come up pretty quick. I will not know for a while , want to do Blood work again in Dec But I think knew DR will want to new blood work before that.so we will have to see. Thank you all for the help. and hopefully I will start to feel better soon, maybe first sign will be new growth for my hair...
God Bless all of you!
God Bless all of you!
As Gimel suggests. Since the amount of T4 would not essentially change but with the additioion of 9 mcg of T3. That would be a significant amount of T3 component to start working.
T3 is almost immediately available and blood levels stabilize in a few days. Unlike T4 which can take 6 to 8 weeks to stabilize. So as gimel suggested you will have two things going for you with your new Dr.
First and foremost, hopefully you will start to feel better and can report that fact to the new Dr. Secondly the blood levels would have stabilized so that blood test that day or prior would reflect the change in medication. But the most important thing is that hopefully you will feel better. And that is the most important FACT for the new Dr. to consider and take into account. Then it is a matter of tweaking the dosage to your sweet spot.
Don't be surprised however if you find that the new Dr is a "reference range endocrinologist" That is only goes by the reference range and once your tests show you are within the range you are "good or normal". But still symptomatic. You just keep strong and insistent until you are treated until you are well!
T3 is almost immediately available and blood levels stabilize in a few days. Unlike T4 which can take 6 to 8 weeks to stabilize. So as gimel suggested you will have two things going for you with your new Dr.
First and foremost, hopefully you will start to feel better and can report that fact to the new Dr. Secondly the blood levels would have stabilized so that blood test that day or prior would reflect the change in medication. But the most important thing is that hopefully you will feel better. And that is the most important FACT for the new Dr. to consider and take into account. Then it is a matter of tweaking the dosage to your sweet spot.
Don't be surprised however if you find that the new Dr is a "reference range endocrinologist" That is only goes by the reference range and once your tests show you are within the range you are "good or normal". But still symptomatic. You just keep strong and insistent until you are treated until you are well!
With Hashi's, as the glands are under continual attack by the antibodies, the thyroid function is continually being reduced. Probably not very noticeable in a short term. However, for myself I would try to get the nurse practitioner to substitute one grain of Armour for your 50 mcg of Synthroid. This would give you about the same amount of T4 and about 9 mcg of T3 along with it. By the time you see your doctor your blood levels will reflect that change and you can get tested for FT3 and FT4 again, and probably have an easier time getting the new doctor on board with your treatment plan, since you will already be taking the Armour.
Boy folks that's a mouth full for someone who really knows nothing about Meds, I hated taking any kind of medication , couple of questions if I may...
The T3 levels are the one which need to be brought up, If I wait to do this will counts get worse? (new Dr app Nov 16) or should I go to Dr I have been seeing , tell her or ask her which way , so that I can get levels up somewhat it is apparent to me that she doesn't keep track, as I saw the Practitioner last time in for results which she said at that point my thyroid was fine. I think if I ask her she will switch me to Armor no problem, or waiting another month before I get started?? " not sure I can stand another of feeling like this , How long would new meds take to kick in? Armour or the Cytomel.
Thanks ever so much for all the help. I definitely appreciate it.
debbie
The T3 levels are the one which need to be brought up, If I wait to do this will counts get worse? (new Dr app Nov 16) or should I go to Dr I have been seeing , tell her or ask her which way , so that I can get levels up somewhat it is apparent to me that she doesn't keep track, as I saw the Practitioner last time in for results which she said at that point my thyroid was fine. I think if I ask her she will switch me to Armor no problem, or waiting another month before I get started?? " not sure I can stand another of feeling like this , How long would new meds take to kick in? Armour or the Cytomel.
Thanks ever so much for all the help. I definitely appreciate it.
debbie
It doesn't have to be an Endo, just a good thyroid doctor. By that I mean a doctor that will treat you clinically, for symptoms, by testing and adjusting Free T3 and Free T4 as necessary to relieve symptoms, without being constrained by resultant TSH levels. Symptom relief should be all important, not just test results. Test results are valuable mainly as indicators during early diagnosis, and then afterward to track FT3 and FT4 levels as meds are revised to relieve symptoms.
You can get some good insight into clinical testing from this letter written by a good thyroid doctor for patients that he sometimes consults with from a distance. The letter is sent to the PCP of the patient to help guide treatment.
http://hormonerestoration.com/files/ThyroidPMD.pdf
You can get some good insight into clinical testing from this letter written by a good thyroid doctor for patients that he sometimes consults with from a distance. The letter is sent to the PCP of the patient to help guide treatment.
http://hormonerestoration.com/files/ThyroidPMD.pdf
HI, thank you for your reply.
I have some of the ranges , the ranges would be same for both as same lab (Quest) range for T3 Free on here is Normal range should be 2.3-4.2 my last result was the 2.6 on 8/24/11. on 5/20/11 was 3.3
T4 free was 5/20/11 1.3 , on 8/24/11 1.1, Normal range 0.8-1.8.
TSH 3rd generation w/ reflex to FT4 0.89 Normal range 0.40 - 4.50
no normal ranges for FSH or LH Or Estrogen totals DR has not ordered regular blood on me in over 9 months not sure about liver counts
never tested for Hashimoto's seems a little OD that she is not concerned with drops, I exercise pretty much daily or try to, I have never had a problem with weight, the past 2 years, that's it, normally active.
did have spinal surgery a few years back, funny this started shortly after that (St Patty's day 2009) replaced 2 disks in neck . went in from front, Hummm maybe he brought this on by moving it all around. (LOL)
I spoke to a friend who has hypo as well, she told me that Armor is better than syntroid which I take only 50 mcg daily. I seroiusly am losing my hair, she said when she changed to Armor the hair loss changed , she isn't tired either, thats another thing with me sleep deprived
just wondering your views on different types of meds?
I may be jumping the gun here, But I did make an app with a different DR this am, but can't get into see him until Nov 3rd.
I am in an area that there is not 1 endocrinologist
thank you again
Debbie
I have some of the ranges , the ranges would be same for both as same lab (Quest) range for T3 Free on here is Normal range should be 2.3-4.2 my last result was the 2.6 on 8/24/11. on 5/20/11 was 3.3
T4 free was 5/20/11 1.3 , on 8/24/11 1.1, Normal range 0.8-1.8.
TSH 3rd generation w/ reflex to FT4 0.89 Normal range 0.40 - 4.50
no normal ranges for FSH or LH Or Estrogen totals DR has not ordered regular blood on me in over 9 months not sure about liver counts
never tested for Hashimoto's seems a little OD that she is not concerned with drops, I exercise pretty much daily or try to, I have never had a problem with weight, the past 2 years, that's it, normally active.
did have spinal surgery a few years back, funny this started shortly after that (St Patty's day 2009) replaced 2 disks in neck . went in from front, Hummm maybe he brought this on by moving it all around. (LOL)
I spoke to a friend who has hypo as well, she told me that Armor is better than syntroid which I take only 50 mcg daily. I seroiusly am losing my hair, she said when she changed to Armor the hair loss changed , she isn't tired either, thats another thing with me sleep deprived
just wondering your views on different types of meds?
I may be jumping the gun here, But I did make an app with a different DR this am, but can't get into see him until Nov 3rd.
I am in an area that there is not 1 endocrinologist
thank you again
Debbie
Cholesterol lowering drugs are a listed cause of weight gain. Statins are also known to cause numerous adverse side effects that make you wish you had never heard the word statin. In my personal top 5 "drugs to avoid at all costs" list.
First off if you live in the USA if you request a lab report by law they must provide it to you. The actual lab report should list the reference ranges.
I would recommend you request the lab reports that you have and then post those results with the reference ranges.
Falling within the "normal" ranges is NOT sufficient for many people. Most people who are symptomatic to relieve symptoms they must be in the MID range of the Free T4 (Not total T4 but FREE T4 FT4) AND their FREE T3 be in the UPPER 1/3 of the range. MANY people are Hypo (low) thyroid when they fall below these limits but still within the lower part of the ranges.
TSH is nearly totally insufficient to determine Thyroid function. At best it is a screening tool. But beyond that it is of not much value.
Test results will vary. They can vary lab to lab, they can vary depending upon what part of the day they are taken at and they can vary if you have or have not taken any medication prior to the blood draw.
While you don't show the ranges, typical ranges would indicate that you are at best mid range and probably a bit low. Both test you show both show a decrease and thus sort of show a trend in that regard.
Hashimoto's is an autoimmune condition where your body thinks your Thyroid is a foreign invader. So your immune system kicks and and starts to slowly kill your thyroid. It is the most common cause for low thyroid. It is progressive. So having decreasing Thyroid over time would be consistent with that but not necessarily the cause.
To test for Hashimoto's you can have an antibody tests done. There are two antibodies to test for. You may want to have your Dr test for these.
I have taken Pravestatin and for me it really did little good. And my liver count went up. Switched to Crestor and that did the trick for me. Which is good that it is working, but bad in the sense that the co-pay for the Name brand Crestor is 3 times what it was for Pravastatin. Everyone is different so your results could be different. I went from Total Cholesterol of 229 down to just a week ago 105. But I also started exercising regularly.
Many people report near impossible weight loss until Thyroid balance is in correct ratio. High cholesterol is one of the common symptoms of low thyroid. Maybe getting Thyroid under control will also help the cholesterol levels.
I would recommend you request the lab reports that you have and then post those results with the reference ranges.
Falling within the "normal" ranges is NOT sufficient for many people. Most people who are symptomatic to relieve symptoms they must be in the MID range of the Free T4 (Not total T4 but FREE T4 FT4) AND their FREE T3 be in the UPPER 1/3 of the range. MANY people are Hypo (low) thyroid when they fall below these limits but still within the lower part of the ranges.
TSH is nearly totally insufficient to determine Thyroid function. At best it is a screening tool. But beyond that it is of not much value.
Test results will vary. They can vary lab to lab, they can vary depending upon what part of the day they are taken at and they can vary if you have or have not taken any medication prior to the blood draw.
While you don't show the ranges, typical ranges would indicate that you are at best mid range and probably a bit low. Both test you show both show a decrease and thus sort of show a trend in that regard.
Hashimoto's is an autoimmune condition where your body thinks your Thyroid is a foreign invader. So your immune system kicks and and starts to slowly kill your thyroid. It is the most common cause for low thyroid. It is progressive. So having decreasing Thyroid over time would be consistent with that but not necessarily the cause.
To test for Hashimoto's you can have an antibody tests done. There are two antibodies to test for. You may want to have your Dr test for these.
I have taken Pravestatin and for me it really did little good. And my liver count went up. Switched to Crestor and that did the trick for me. Which is good that it is working, but bad in the sense that the co-pay for the Name brand Crestor is 3 times what it was for Pravastatin. Everyone is different so your results could be different. I went from Total Cholesterol of 229 down to just a week ago 105. But I also started exercising regularly.
Many people report near impossible weight loss until Thyroid balance is in correct ratio. High cholesterol is one of the common symptoms of low thyroid. Maybe getting Thyroid under control will also help the cholesterol levels.
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The FT4 both tests you show that you were 1.1 and 1.3. Mid range would be 1.3 so you are pretty close to mid range. Which is were you generally want to be! That is the good news.
FT3 however your tests were 2.6 & 3.3. MID RANGE is 3.25 and you are below that. And ideally you want to be in the UPPER 1/3 of the range which is a result of 3.56. And your test results are well below that. Clearly you still do not have enough T3. This may be a result of poor conversion of T4 to T3. And this explains why despite your TSH and even FT4 numbers you are still having Hypo symptoms. You raise the FT3 up the right spot and you will feel better and stop losing hair etc.
Armour is a natural Thyroid and thus has a T3 component in it so that is why your friend may have responded so well. Synthyroid is STRICTLY 100% T4 medication. For people who do not convert T4 into usable T3, no amount of T4 will be good enough to convert into enough FT3 for you to feel good. So some addition of T3 is required.
To improve your T3 numbers you can do it two ways. One is to add a 2nd synthetic T3 med. The other is to switch to Armour. A final small enhancement may be by the addition of a Selenium supplement. This is supposed to aid in the conversion process.
Personally since your FT4's are so close to where you want them at mid range, I'd be apt to want to add the T3 med Cytomel in addition to your Synthroid. T3 meds are immediately available and thus act like they are about 4 times stronger than a T4 med because they don't have to be converted for the body to use them. As a result the Dr may slightly lower your T4 med. The rule of thumb is to lower your T4 med by 20 mcg for each 5 mcg of T3 medication added. But since you have some room to play with the FT4 they may not lower the T4 med at all.
T3 meds are usually a twice a day dose. Sometimes they may even only take a small dose once a day in the afternoon. You generally do not want to take a T3 med after about 3PM or so as you may have trouble sleeping as it gives you a boost of energy. T3 meds are pretty powerful and you generally want to start out slowly to get your body used to it over a few days. For example. If the Dr would prescribe 10 mcg, you very well may want to start out the first tow days with only taking 2.5 mcg twice a day. Then after a few days take 5 mcg in the morning and 5 mcg in the afternoon. Otherwise some people can fell ill with side effects of just jump starting your body.
Just my opinion. Others may have a different opinion.