armour thyroid

[boo999]

Hello, I recently started Armour after 4 endo's, this one said my free t3 very low. Have been taking 90mg for 6 weeks. My labs of 2 weeks ago are as follows:TSH 0.37 range 0.40-4.50....freet t4 direct dialysis 1.6 range 0.8-2.7....free t3 2.9 range 2.3-4.2...took straight t4 for 35 plus years. Most symptoms have lessened except still very fatigued. Iam 51 years old.....

[boo999]

Good Lord, all is getting complicated...I sailed along for38 years taking just t4, went through the change of life, and now all is a mess. The worst part is finding a doctor who knows or cares about thyroid issues. Thanks for all your insight, I will rethink after next labs.

[gimel]

Your Free T4 is still below the midpoint of its range, so your meds increase is not going to be a problem for that.   If you continue to have hypo symptoms and need further increases in Free T3, then you could add a small amount of Cytomel, or a generic T3 med, as necessary.  

[boo999]

Thanks for your informatiion, will start splitting dose, but wont change it until next labs.  Still a bit confused if you up the dose wont it make the free t4 to high, even though it would be increasing the free t3 to a better level?

[gimel]

When you tried going from 90 mg to 120, were you taking the whole amount in one dose each day?  If so that might be a part of why you felt shaky with that dose.  When I had to split an Armour tablet, I just used my fingers and fingernails and broke it in half.  Did not shatter, just split fairly well.  

Since your doctor did not voice any disagreement, you might try it that way, or you could also split one of the halves into quarters and take 60 in morning and 45 in afternoon for a few weeks and see how that works before going to the full 90.

[boo999]

Did try cutting the armour pill with a pill cutter, was not pretty, crumbled, they are not scored.

[boo999]

So how does one achieve bringing up the t4 and t3? I do labs again 2nd week in may, will be 2nd labs since beginning armour. Did first labs at 3 weeks which are above and the New dr. said she liked the looks of them.I told her I was still having symptoms, so I was going to try 120mg, but after a few days I got a bit shaky, so these next labs will be again for the 90mg, I want to have a plan to tell her, but the armour is totally new to me even with all the reading I have been doing. I appreciate all and any info you can pass on to me. possibly 90mg and 15mg, not sure of some good options to tweak my levels. Thanks for the responses

[gimel]

Your Free T4 should be adequate, but it could be tweaked a bit higher.  Your Free T3 is way too low in the range for most hypo patients.  both ranges are far too broad.  They have never been corrected like was done for TSH about 10 years ago by the AACE.  For that reason, many members, myself included, find that symptom relief required that Free T3 was adjusted into the upper third of its range and Free T4 adjusted to around the middle of its range.  There is not one level at which everyone feels best.  So the clinical approach is the best type of treatment.

Since Armour contains T3, it is best to take the same amount each day, to level out the effect.  Also, with T3 meds, it seems to generally work best if you split the daily dose into half and take in the morning and early afternoon.   This is because T3  is much faster acting than T4 meds.  

[boo999]

Thank you for your information. I am thinking an increase in armour after next labs, even if slight, maybe saturday and sunday 120mg or just sunday. Please take a glance at my last labs, offer an opinion on the fatigue..thanks

[gimel]

As we know there are abundant data about the inadequate conversion of T4 to T3, especially when taking T4 meds.  In view of its importance, there is no rational excuse for not testing Free T3 to be sure that conversion is adequate and that the Free T3 level is high enough to relieve symptoms.  T3 levels will vary during the day, but that is no reason to avoid the test.  In the link I gave above, note the following statements.

" the ultimate criterion for dose adjustment must always be the clinical response of the patient. I have prescribed natural dessicated thyroid for your patient (Armour, Nature-Throid) because it contains both T4 and T3 (40mcg and 9mcg respectively per 60mg). This assures sufficient T3 levels and thyroid effects in the body. Since NDT has more T3 than the human thyroid gland produces, the well- replaced patient’s FT4 will be below the middle of its range, and the FT3 will be high “normal” or slightly high before the next AM dose.


Besides the patients with primary hypothyroidism due to Hashimoto's Thyroiditis, there are many patients with secondary hypothyroidism caused by the weak response of the hypothalamus/pituitary system to thyroid hormone levels in the blood.  Secondary thyroidism is frequently overlooked because of the attendant low TSH levels.  The pituitary function can be affected by lot of different things.  That is why it is important to always test beyond TSH.

[oscar999]

The problem is most endos believe that T3 can be converted from T4 by your body ??? That's why they don't even bother to test FT3 . Also, T3 has very short half life so the data is like a transient data , not as reliable as T4.

Another question is does everyone who has underactive thyroid is always due to autoimmune disease . Is it possible that the thyroid gland is simply not working as good without the immune system attacking it ???
My thyroglobulin antibody test was negative.

[boo999]

t3 from what i have researched and speaking with my new Endo extremely important for feeling well. Mine was very low she said. This would be the reasoning behind the armour has t3 and t4, I do feel better. Just still tired alot. No other medical issues

[oscar999]

Hi ;  If I may ask , what is the +'s and  - 's of  T4 vs. Armour ( T4 & T3) ???
Why did you switch to  Armour from synthetic T4 ???

Thanks.