Figured I would post here also in addition to the HIV forum

[cincy2207]

My story is perplexing and has been unsettling at times. Currently, I am 28 years old and also happen to be a medical student in the U.S. I was never promiscuous but had a lapse in judgment 7 years ago..... Yes 7 years ago is correct. I slept with a female during undergrad and had unprotected oral and vaginal intercourse. 2 weeks later I had severe pain after ejaculation and on the 3rd week I was severely sick for a few weeks and a sore throat lasting a few months.

I asked the girl to be tested but she was afraid and said she was fine. Granted this left "what ifs in my mind". It also lead me down the same rabbit hole many of you are currently going through. By this I'm referring to having a plethora of HIV tests. To name a few of the ~40 I have taken over 7 years:

RNA Viral Load quantitation ~10 weeks past the exposure . = undetectable
DNA PCR Proviral ~ 1 year, 3, years, and 5 years past = not detected
2 different RNA PCR Qualitative (FDA approved) = not detected.
To many Oraquick Advance Rapid oral swabs to keep track of = all Negative
Several ELISA, ICMA, and EIAs typically through lab corp.
Then a few months ago I had a Negative P24 rapid antigen test at a local hospital. = negative

Have I been thinking about this non-stop? Nope, Ive actually had several amazing years after this which is how I was able to get things back on track and come to medical school. However; symptoms (which everyone will say means nothing) have lead me back to this. I was actually forgetting all about this in terms of thinking there was a possibility of having this condition, Until a few months ago when I had 2 wisdom teeth extracted.

A few weeks after this I started to get severe burning in my mouth, a metallic taste, and dry mouth. I would almost describe it as a "Menthol" like sensation. I looked in the mirror and on the lateral aspect of my tongue there was a localized white patch. My university health clinic prescribed me Nystatin swish and swallow which relieved the pain after several days on it and the lesion went away. However, it will go away and then reappear after a few days. I can always tell when its about to come because burning nearly always precedes it.

I have an appointment with an ENT tomorrow morning, and an infectious disease specialist on Tuesday. Im trying to convince myself that this is because of the 4 day course of Penicillin VK I was on 500mg, 4 times a day .... this is actually when this started. Im hoping it was the cause and not just a coincidence that I happened to be taking them.

I took another rapid HIV test yesterday and it was still negative thankfully.

Also, I tell myself this as FINALLY after 7 years, I wrote the girl this happened with and needless to say she was not happy with me but finally said she was tested for HIV when she had her 2 children.

I would literally have to be the most unlucky person if this was to turn up after all these years. One thing that is perplexing to me is why it keep coming back after 2 courses of Nystatin.

[aprilgrace07]

This may have already been said in this manner, too much to read everything. I think you probably got a bad yeast infection from this girl, who may not have even known she had one or been bothered by it. You could be more susceptible or if you have extra mold in your body it can cause yeast infections to be worse, so if you had mold in your house or another environment that could easily explain this. You going back to school probably explains why you're having more problems now. The school probably has a lot of mold as many do and you will feel worse when around the mold. Tell the new doc you want to be tested for mold toxicity/illness, as well as metals, chemicals, brain chemistry and hormonal balances. Everything they can check, but research also and have the most important tests done first. Prioritize or you'll spend a ton. ASK the doctor if you're understanding and if they are taking all your thoughts into consideration and what tests they think will find answers and benefit your health the most, not just cost less or rule out basics. In depth testing.

[jemma116]

Thank you Niko.  Congratulations for being accepted.

Glad that the past by date coconut oil is safe - I hate throwing anything away.  I purchased some for my daughter to treat her dandruff.

The "butter" cream turned out fine with some modifications LOL.  I did have to add some normal lactose free sunflower fat to it and more meringue (I whisk up egg white with sugar over a pan of hot water) as the texture was not right with just the coconut oil in and too bitter with using too much dark chocolate, hence more meringue.

We'll see what the grandkids think of it tomorrow :)

[TheLightSeeker]

I have been accepted as the local health "guru" and expert on coconut oil, lol! something I never actively pursued, but somehow it came about, since there was a tremendous amount of interest and when  people consulted with me about various persistant health issues,the word spread like wildfire, when they experienced notable improvements through my recommendations.

Jemma:
1. You may increase to 1-2 T daily and gradually increase to 3-4T daily within a month.
2. It is perfect for diabetes, as it puts no strain on the pancreas.
Its calories are fat calories, albeit slightly less compared to other fats
gram to gram, but the great advantage is that they are treated NOT as fat calories but more like carbs w/out the insulin load, as it does not get stored as fat. It get metabolized by the liver and used for energy right away!
3. It's great advantage-beside its medicinal properties-is that it is a medium chain fatty acid which does not get oxidized when heated, whereas ALL vegetable, seed  and grain cooking oils are pro-inflammatory. Light, heat & even internal body heat render them rancid-like and responsible for free-radical formation in the body.
Its shelf life is very long and if yours is 2 years old, it will be perfectly safe to consume in any way, even if some of its aroma and taste have decreased.
4. Coconut oil  is known to increase metabolism, but care must be exercised not to consume in higher quantities than needed AND to keep activity levels as high as possible- since it will increase your energy, lol!

Your chocolate cake will turn out perfect using coconut oil!
You may have to add some sea salt , if your recipe calls for salted butter.

Cheers!
Niko

[jemma116]

I understand your concern that she may have had an STD and may not have known about it.

Hope all goes well for you with the specialist on Tuesday.
I am going to experiment making a chocolate butter cream (substituting the coconut oil for the butter).  This is for a chocolate cake that needs to be made for a birthday and has be to lactose free.

[cincy2207]

Thank you both for your continued discussion. I will continue the recommendations and have some coconut oil I will begin using in addition.

Jemma116, I understand your thoughts about this girl. I certainly didn't mean to come off that it was only "her fault". I fully take responsibility for not protecting myself /her all these years ago in this only lapse of judgment. I was just simply saying that by her unwillingness to be tested all these years ago, It just left "what ifs" in my head. However, I also understand that was her choice. Especially, being that she was recently tested during pregnancies a therefore, I understand why she would not reach back out to me. It does make me feel better her finally telling me she was tested during pregnancies.

Again, thank you both for your ongoing communication. I will be adding Coconut oil in addition to the medication I was prescribed. Best.

[jemma116]

Thanks for the info on the kefir grains Niko.  

I have recently purchased raw organic extra virgin coconut oil and have been eating a teaspoonful of it once a day.  

Will this amount be beneficial to the body and OK to consume with having Type 2 diabetes?  

I have read coconut oil can help to regulate the blood glucose and is also helpful in losing weight - would you know if this is correct?

Thanks

I presume as with any consumable product that the coconut oil can go off.  I have some 2 half jars that are 2 years out of date.  Would this still be OK to eat and use in cooking, used as a hand cream or a bin job?  Must admit it does not smell or taste as good at the fresh jar.

[jemma116]

Well, what I have read about kefir (and you can find info about this on the web), it is fermented milk (from cows, goats or sheep) with keir grains. Kefir grains are filled with micro-organisms that help balance the body's internal systems, so given that, and since you have purchased 2 bottles of it, you can see how it works for you.  Do bear in mind that  kefir is not 100%  effective against fungal and yeast problems in some people.

I do hope that the infections disease specialist will be able to allay your fears.

You have spoken about prickly feelings in your feet at night and you have the fungal problem.  The fungal problem may have been because of the antibiotics, but these symptoms that you mention can also be due to pre diabetes or diabetes.  The tingly feet at night could be an indication of nerve damage and that can be from uncontrolled sugar levels in your blood.  Other reasons for tingly feet may be referred pain from your lower back.

I suggest you see your GP and tell him about the sensations that you have been having in your feet, so that he can run some tests to find out the cause of this.  Lacking in vitamin B12 can also cause tingling.  The doctor may get you to do a glucose test to check for glucose intolerance.  He may order a HBA1C blood test to see what your sugar glucose is.  The results of this test show the average of glucose in your blood over a period of 3 months (this is the time that the blood platelets are renewed).

If you do have a lower back problem, then consider whether the tingling in the feet are due to that - the doctor may refer you to have an xray done on the lower spine.

I know that you feel angry about the girl not telling you anything, but that was her decision.  She may have good reasons why she did not get in touch with you and it may be that because her results were negative she did not want to bother you.  

As the saying goes "It takes 2 to tango".  In other words it was your responsibility too to protect yourself against potentially getting sexually transmitted diseases as much as it was hers.

Do let me know how you get on with the specialist.

[cincy2207]

Thank you very much for your response as always Jemma. You are correct, in the fact that I need to be thinking more rationally in terms of HIV. I understand there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that refutes the possibility of still having HIV. I tell myself this, but these symptoms, such has the prickling feeling at night in my feet for over 4 years now and this bout of thrush has freaked me out. This is what has continued to put HIV at the forefront of my mind. Additionally, I have read SO MANY journals in the medical literature about slow seroconversion or other cases that it has lead me to think there is still a chance.

Again, I know this is the wrong way to think about things, and I tell myself it is CRAZY to think that there is still a chance. I have done very sophisticated HIV tests such as PCRs, Antigen/Antibody Combo, and Antibody tests and everyone of them has been NEGATIVE :) past 7 years of this event.

I tell myself that if there are no antibodies being made and if I had this I would be severely ill by now. Then since I have also done the PCR tests in the form of BOTH, HIV RNA PCR and HIV DNA PCR which are looking for the actual virus. These have also been negative always with my last RNA PCR November 11th (7 years and 1 month past). Thus I tell myself if there is no virus and no antibodies then HIV simply is just NOT possible . Period. :)

I am trying to convince myself that this is just an unfortunate coincidence that I happened to get thrush . Im hoping the Clotrimazole works and I can finally put this behind me. I am hoping the HIV/ infectious disease specialist I am seeing Tuesday can provide me with final closure. You would have thought the girl this happened with finally telling me she had tested twice during both her pregnancies would have been enough closure but so far it hasn't been.

Lastly, I picked up two bottles of kefir from the store. However, I read that this is actually bad for thrush? Any thoughts?

Thank you once again. I will keep you updated.

[jemma116]

Thank you for the compliment.

cincy, as a medical student you need to start to think things rationally.  
I am not up on HIV things, but would have thought that after 7 years of being clear, there is no problem there.  You are doing the right thing with getting counselling to help you to learn techniques and thinking patterns regarding the anxiety with regard to your fear that you may have HIV.  And of course, by this experience, I trust that you use protection.  You may already be aware that there are latex free condoms available to purchase, if you have an allergy to latex.

In answer to your question, I did not have an extraction done, but a ceramic cap replaced an old one right at the back of my bottom jaw.  The procedure did take well over an hour.  I have had fungal infections in my mouth and throat as well as other parts of my body on and off over the years.  And have had different treatments for it.  My mouth was never swabbed so I cannot say which particular fungal infection it was.

I have to have treatment against fungal/yeast infections when taking antibiotics.

As the problem is in your mouth, I presume that the Clotrimazole you were prescribed are lozenges.  That being the case, make sure that you use them correctly as directed.  The lozenges should be placed in the mouth and dissolved slowly over about 15 to 30 minutes. Do not chew or swallow the lozenges whole.  I had used these many years ago, but they are not available in the UK any more as far as I know.  The Clotrimazole is, like you say, stronger than the Nystatin and it treats fungal and yeast infections.  I never mentioned "yeast" in my previous message, because yeast is a fungus (microscopic unicellular fungus).  

The only way to find out for sure which fungus, yeast, bacteria, you have in your mouth is by having a swab taken and analysed.  Most doctors would treat mouth fungal problems with the Nystatin or Daktarin oral gel to begin with.  

Do follow the advice with regard to your diet, because that plays a big role in controlling yeast and fungal infections.  Also keep in mind that these infections are passed on by contact.

Hope the Clotrimazole works for you this time and all goes well with the specialist on Tuesday.  

Do keep us posted to let us know how you are getting on.

Best wishes.

[cincy2207]

To both of you, thank you for your detailed conversation. I greatly appreciate both of you taking the time to try and help me. I have to say this has been a horrible experience for me. The thoughts of HIV has plagued me and as a result I've sought counseling about it for many years. Ive moved past my worries of this thinking that 7 years ago was just a coincidence of getting sick and that if the illness had went away it was because of an immune response.

You would assume that the voice of reason would tell me once a person recovers from an illness it is because of an immune response thus antibodies would be detected at this time. Being I'm here today writing this message it seems like my immune system is intact and that the course of antibiotics I took most certainly is the culprit.

Jemma116, you mentioned you also had thrush after a dental procedure? If you dont mind me asking was this too after a tooth extraction and antibiotics?

This morning I went to the ENT surgeon and he said he wasn't 100% convinced that this was Thrush (I posted pics on my profile). He said he would prescribe Clotrimazole being I was already on Nystatin. He said the Clotrimazole is stronger then Nystatin. I have also started to drink Kerfir and take a probiotic along with following the above steps.

Just to ensure its nothing more serious I am doing a punch biopsy Monday morning and then still seeing the Infectious disease Doc Tuesday because I need him to tell me forsure that HIV is NOT a concern. Granted after 7 years and the testing I have had I'm not sure how it would be possible.

Thanks again everyone. You both are great.

[jemma116]

Having read all of your post, the symptoms that you have described in your mouth are typical of a fungal infection.  

I too experienced a similar problem when having one of my teeth done and had to have a few weeks of Nystatin.  Daktarin is an oral gel that is sometimes used for fungal problems in the mouth, this can be purchased from the pharmacy without a prescription.  I found this very helpful.

There are a number of other antifungal medications (in capsule form that you swallow) that come in different strengths and depending on how badly your fungal problem is, sometimes these medications need to be taken for quite a long time (months sometimes).  Care does need to be taken with long term use because of the risk of damaging the liver and the kidneys.  

You are right that fungal issues can be brought on by antibiotics.  And as you will no doubt know, this is because the antibiotics and penicillin kill off the good bacteria as well as the bad bacteria and when this happens the fungus gets out of control.

The coconut oil mentioned by TheLightSeeker is a good home remedy.  Make sure that you get the virgin coconut oil.  Coconut oil can be eaten straight from the jar (it is solid) and also used in cooking and frying on a shallow pan (this is one oil that does not change its composition when heated).  It can also be used for skin and scalp problems.

The other good home remedy for fungal infections is natural live yogurt.  If you experience any fungal problems on your genitals, like itchiness, you can apply the thick set yogurt to your washed and gently dried genitals.  You can do this for as long as is required.  If you do eat yogurt, get the ones that are not sweetened (check the label).  

Make sure too that you have a healthy and well balanced diet with lots of fresh fruit and vegetables and drink plenty of fluids and especially water.  Fungus loves sweet.  So cut down on your consumption of sweet foods and fizzy drinks.

The reason why the fungal mouth problem keeps coming back after 2 courses of Nystatin is simply that you needed to have more. Of course, the other possibility is if you have any contact with someone else who also has a fungal infection, you are being reinfected.

If you have not had a swab taken from inside your mouth, that would be a good idea to have done.  Your doctor can arrange for you to have this done.  The swab is sent to the laboratory to identify the bugs.  No doubt the ENT department and the infectious disease specialist will take swabs from your mouth.  

People who are pre diabetic and those with diabetes are also at risk of getting fungal infections, and especially so if their sugars are not controlled properly.

Hope you get on OK with the specialists.

Let us know how you get on.

Best wishes.

[TheLightSeeker]

Hey cincy2207,

Not to be overly concerned, but it sounds more like a yeast overgrowth and if these are your only symptoms so far, please consider putting your HIV suspicions to rest, as they seem to be emotionally based.
At worse, you may have Candida, if other organs/body systems are involved, which is not evident from what you have posted.
I also have medical training (but switched to holistic/naturopathic medicine), and I'm participating as just a regular member here for personal reasons.

My reply would not be complete if I do not include the possibility of  the dental infection connection as a possible factor.
Dr. Weston Price has written a number of books on the relationship between nutrition, dental health, and physical health.
If you do some research, you will find some of his books online for free.
Dental infections, oral and systemic (Volume I and Volume II) are the last ones that I studied.
Volume I presents research on fundamentals of oral and systemic expressions of dental infections; volume II presents research on clinical expressions of dental infections.

I personally follow a superb oral health regimen and the main basis of it is "Oil Pulling" a 3000 years old Ayuverdic remedy, which has recently been repopularized, with extraordinary results! Just do a search for details.
I use coconut oil to do this twice daily-which coconut oil I must admit is more effective than Nystatin- and my oral hygiene and health AND my overall health have never been better!

Hope this helps and let me know if you need any more details, however,
my comments and suggestions are not intended as a substitute for medical advice. (I'm sure you know understand the reasons for my disclaimer.)

Cheers.
Niko