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20804558 tn?1517783610

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I'm new to this site. How do I find people that I can support and get support from them with weight loss ?
12 Responses
649848 tn?1534637300
COMMUNITY LEADER
Hi and welcome...

I'm sorry I didn't see your question sooner... We're all here to support each other.  What type of support would you like to have and do you have a particular area of expertise, such as diet, exercise, etc?  

You can tell us something about yourself as an introduction and we can go from there...
3 Comments
I'm trying to loose weight. I have diabetes but have gotten my A1c to stay at a non diabetic range for about 5 months. I used to weigh 250 and had lost 75 pounds. At the same time I was taking care of my mother at home who had alzheimers. I was responsible for her 24/7. She passed away at home and even though it was an expected passing, I still got very depressed and gained 40 pounds getting up to 230. I got help for my depression and am now working on myself again. My current weight is 187.
First off, I'm very sorry about your mother.  I'm familiar with caring for someone with Alzheimer's (or dementia) as I cared for an Aunt with dementia.

Secondly, congratulations on your previous weight loss.  It's awesome that you were able to lose that amount of weight.  Stress often causes us to gain, or be unable to lose.

I apologize for your thread having been hijacked and turned into a debate. We're here to help and support you in every way we can.  
Wow, greeneyez--  I'm happy for your weight loss, that is terrific!  I'm sorry though about your mom.  My weight slowly started inching up after my second child.  up and up.  Then I decided to get healthy and worked on my diet and exercise and lost a chunk.  And then gained some back.  And then lost some and on it goes.  I'm currently in a downward trend on weight which is good.  Would like it to last this time!
973741 tn?1342346373
Hi!  (both to Barb and the poster!).  I'm on my never ending quest to lose a little and keep it off for the sake of my health.  I'm not a spring chicken and have blood pressure that wants to creep up.  I lost several pounds a couple of years ago and kept some off but gained some back.  Early fall I started working out regularly and this does seem to really help.  But it's good to have people you talk to and bounce ideas off with so count me in if we are doing that here!  :>)  
649848 tn?1534637300
COMMUNITY LEADER
Hi Specialmom, long time, no see and welcome back...   bouncing things off each other is exactly what we're doing here...

I'm always on a quest to lose weight, but it's more than "a few" pounds and I've been at it for the past 10 yrs... Neither am I spring chicken - I'm really an old hen, compared to most...lol  but I don't give up, because I don't think age has a lot to do with it, since I got way all the way through my 50's and long past menopause before I gained weight.  I think I'd have been okay, if my thyroid hadn't stopped working.  Once that happened, it's been a downhill battle because of poor treatment and other medical issues that have arisen since then - insulin resistance/metabolic syndrome...

My journey has been a long, frustrating one, so I'll spare the details (lol), but lack of support always ends up being a big factor for me, so motivation ends up going by the wayside.  

My naturopathic doctor wants me on a gluten, dairy, soy and sugar free diet... I started it back in July and did relatively well for several months.  Unfortunately, I didn't lose any weight, but it did bring my cholesterol and triglyceride levels back into normal ranges again, so that's a good thing...

I don't like the term "diet", because your diet is simply what you eat, whether it's good, bad or indifferent.  That said, of all the eating plans I've ever tried, I lost the most weight by adding more fresh/frozen veggies and healthy fats, such as olive and coconut oils, butter, full fat dairy, fresh meats, etc.  I did that 2 yrs ago, when I had adequate thyroid hormone levels and managed to lose 26 lbs.   I'm getting about ready to transition back to that plan again.
973741 tn?1342346373
Ah, thanks for the welcome back.  I know, I've been MIA.  Here but in my own bubble.  Missed ya.  

Okay, so I wrote about this on the exercise forum (because I post there some times)---  I listened to a program that was really interesting.  They brought up a concept that is a new spin on an old idea.  You know the old "don't eat after 7" stuff?  Well, the doctor called this --  intermittent fasting--.  More purposeful holding off of food with several studies supporting good results.  Things like if you are diabetic or on the diabetic bubble, numbers improving with fasting at least 12 hours a day (so from 8 pm to 8 am, for example).  It gives the pancreas a break.  And for those who need more of a bump, they go to up to 16 hours.  The doctor said that people have an easier time because much of it happens when they are sleeping and the longer they go without eating, the bigger medical benefit.  I know I can get low blood sugar and feel nauseated and wake up this way, so I'd have to start my time earlier on the front end rather than waiting long periods after I get up.  But they talked about weight loss and control with this.  That it is simply more difficult to consume calories in 8 hours than in the usual 12 plus that people usually have in their eating window.  The smaller eating window is an advantage to changes and control in weight.  This doctor said she had more patient compliance with the intermittent fasting approach than diets.  Sharing ideas.  :>)  

I know, it's always a struggle.  And one little thing happens and we are out for things like exercise.  I hurt my calf . . . I was trying to go for a walk limping.  And as I get older, the injuries start to rack up.  I know you have foot pain/issues which can impact things.  

I also have read from several sources that 30 minutes a day, most days is impactful and it doesn't have to be done at once.  10 minutes each time at a minimum though.  And any activity counts as long as your heart rate increases.  We don't have to kill ourselves with doing back flips trying to exercise.

Anyway, I'm glad to be part of the discussion here!
Avatar universal
Just want to say, friends are people you are physically present with.  On the internet we are somewhat acquainted, but can't ever truly be friends because we spend no actual time together.  We can help one another and share ideas so we get different opinions than the ones we are sometimes stuck with through inertia, but if you want friends, you need to meet people where you live and actually be with them.  These will be true friends and when you're feeling low or need motivation you can actually see them in person.  I can attest to the difference, because I'm someone who moved across the country and developed an anxiety disorder far from my true friends and family, and no amount of internet chatter will ever replace what I lost.  As for the help we can give here, I'll give an example.  Barb tells us coconut oil, butter, and whole milk are "healthy" fats, but that's actually not true according to nutritionists.  It is true according to the people who sell products containing those things.  Because all of those are extremely high in saturated fat, and because dairy is very hard to digest for any animal past weaning, these should only be consumed in small amounts.  The coconut fad comes from people misunderstanding the studies -- at one time coconut was a huge no-no, but then became not a big no-no because it contains a very large amount of beneficial antioxidants which counteracts some of the negative effects of consuming it.  However, it's still really really high in saturated fat and hard to digest calories because of that.  The same misunderstanding happened with butter -- a study came out that found it wasn't as bad for you as prior studies showed, but the authors of that study were forced to appear on every program they could and do interviews to counter the misleading headlines that came out saying it's okay to eat a lot of butter again.  Wasn't what they found -- they only found it wasn't as bad as people said, but the authors in their study cautioned that it should only be eaten in very small quantities on occasion because it was still too high in harmful saturated animal fat.  Extra virgin olive oil is a better choice, and they also encourage canola oil, though you have to be careful to use organic canola as the rest is genetically modified.  Some do not like canola, so everyone can make their own choices.  So you see, Barb and I have now offered completely contrary opinions, and that allows both of us to think about what we thought we knew.  That's how we help on here, but it's not the same as having a friend.  I will also say that age is a big factor -- injuries pile up over the years until you just can't do anything you used to do without risking injury.  What nobody tells you when you're young is that heavy exercise leads to strain on the joints and muscles over the years, that testosterone levels drop, etc.  It's important when young to learn how to exercise properly and not to overdo it unless you're getting paid huge sums of money to do so as pro athletes are.  Otherwise, you will feel it as you age, and then you either just do it anyway and endure the pain or change how you exercise so it's more gentle, in which case you don't get the same burn.  See?  More differences that we can think about and make up our own minds about.  This is the internet, but again, it isn't what we get from friends.  
1 Comments
I try to not do this, but am going to semi sorta disagree with you paxiled.  The idea of a friend or a buddy is subjective.  Your idea is that you have to be present and spend face to face time with them to count.  I have made friends online that I have genuine affection for and feelings for as friends.  They know an awful lot about me and I know a lot about them.  Shared experience is what makes friends in my opinion.  Connection.  

Those who go to an anonymous weight watchers meeting aren't with their 'friends' but they are with live people.  :>)  

Barb and I go way back on this site and have shared intimate details of our life.  But she lives several states away from me.  I consider her a friend.  And I've had friends that moved . . . haven't seen them in years but we reconnect and I still consider them friends.  

See my point?  

Reaching out here for connection and motivation and a friendly pat on the back from either strangers or those we've become friendly with and consider friends works for some and not for others.  

I like to talk and write.  I look forward to your posting on things I write to see your thoughts.  Connection.  And when you continue to connect over and over, people feel like they are friends.  

That's my two cents.  

Now, as to healthy eating and exercise, that too is personal.  There are tried and true but someone may have experience for what they did that I'd like to know.  But I like real world advice.  I'm not big into anything complicated, special drinks I have to make, vitamins I have to buy, etc.  I like it easy and what a mom that's busy with life and kids can do without a lot of effort or money.  so, share away people . . . I want to hear what you do.  I might not be able to do it all with budget and time, but I like to hear about it.


649848 tn?1534637300
COMMUNITY LEADER
I try not to be controversial, as well, but I have to agree with Specialmom about the friends thing.  As she said, we've been together, here, on MH for many years and we've shared a lot personal information.  I consider her a friend and I'm honored to know that she feels the same about me, even though we've never met.  

As she said, I've met people on MH that I have genuine affection for and I've even gone out of my way to travel across the country to meet some of them and some of them have been here to meet me.  If I get a chance to have lunch or dinner with Specialmom, I'll jump at it... :-)  

That said, it's nice to have friends close by that you can meet for lunch, go walking/exercising with or whatever, you're going to do, but since I retired from my job, I don't get out like I used to, so I really don't have a lot of friends and I'm thousands of miles from my family, so I enjoy and rely on the friendships I've made here...  I have one "walking partner" that's here for part of the year and she helps keep me motivated, but when she's not here, I'm on my own and the motivation just isn't always there because my husband tends to make things sort of difficult when it comes to sticking with an eating and exercise plan, so it would be nice to have people here to help out.

I, too, like to talk and write and I like to see a variety of opinions.  We all have them and what works for one, might not work for someone else. This is our way learning from, and connecting with, each other.  After I see a few posts from one person, I come feel that I'm getting to know them a little bit and begin to feel an association...

For every study one person posts showing that something is healthy and works for weight loss, someone else can find a study saying it's unhealthy and doesn't work.  Even something that worked for me last year might not work this year, because our bodies are constantly changing, as is our metabolism.  

I don't really think an explanation is necessary, for those of us, here, but I'll do it for any new comers that might read this.  When I say olive, coconut oil, butter, full fat dairy are "healthier" fats, I mean they are healthier than the transfats and hydrogenated or vegetable oils that are in most processed foods.  Full fat dairy is "healthier" than low/no fat dairy, because when they take out the fat, they add sugar to make up for the flavor they take away when they remove the fat.  If they didn't, you'd be drinking white water and nobody would buy it; skim milk isn't much better than that, as it is. When you consume the full fat products, it's more filling, so you don't have to eat as much, it stays with you longer so you don't get hungry as quickly, plus you're not increasing blood glucose levels nearly as much as when you eat the low/no fat versions that are chock full of sugar...  That's, basically, how I lost 26 lbs over a short period of time - because, even though I was eating more fat, I was eating fewer calories over the course of the day...

None of us are doctors, here, and we have our own experiences, along with those of the people we've known to go by, plus research we do.  We know that every article we read is going to tell us something different and what one site said today, may change tomorrow, because studies have found conflicting evidence.  We, also, know that certain medical conditions will affect our metabolism and make losing weight much more difficult, if not impossible, as will things that affect our ability to exercise.  

I've never claimed to be an expert; all we can do is put out things we've read about or tried, what's worked or hasn't and make suggestions.  I want to know what others try, what works, why this might or not work or why this works better than that, etc.
4 Comments
Only thing I'd like to say here is that skim and low fat milk do not have added sugar.  Neither does low or non fat plain yogurt.  While flavored yogurts do add sugar, milk is milk.  When I managed health food stores, we used to sell real milk alongside the organic versions of the milk you buy in the grocery store.  This means it is pasteurized but not homogenized, which is how people drank the small amounts of milk people drank before the 20th century when the US gov't partnered with the biggest dairy farm owners to convince people it was good for them to drink milk.  Most people in the world take their dairy in the form of cultured products such as kefir or yogurt or use it for cooking and flavoring or as cultured cheese.  They also don't drink much cow's milk, because cows are a human-invented animal that has a very odd digestive system -- most dairy in most of the world is from goats and sheep and other animals that have a digestive system more like ours.   What people used to drink was raw milk, which isn't practical when it is traded as a commodity as milk doesn't travel healthfully, but pasteurization and refrigeration took care of that problem.  Real milk is also unhomogenized, however, meaning the fat isn't mixed in.  At the top floats most of the cream, a good portion of the fat, which was skimmed off and used for cream or making butter.  In other words, the milk was never full-fat except occasionally when the cream wasn't skimmed off when someone milked an animal and just drank it right then and there.  But again, there might be products in the grocery stores that add sugar to milk, but as far as I know that's only done for chocolate milk.  Milk is naturally very high in sugar -- in fact, that sugar, lactose, is one of the thing most humans cannot digest and why almost all holistic nutritionists will tell you not to do dairy much and if you do, make it fermented or cultured.  I only make a big deal out of this because we are now living in a fact-free world, and it's important to have these discussions somewhere so people can see stuff free of marketing propaganda or political propaganda.  But Barb is right about individuals being different -- they really really are, and we change over time as well. .
Oh, and I think transfats are mostly gone from the marketplace.  I'm sure there are still some out there, but you can even find margarine now that doesn't contain them.  They are the worst fats, but you don't find them in dairy unless you're talking about dessert items found in the supermarket.  There used to be a product we sold called Tofutti, which actually had no tofu in it.  Vegans loved it because there was no animal products in it, but it was virtually all trans-fats.  I discontinued it for this reason, and got a lot of static from the vegans, who would eat virtually anything as long as it didn't have animal products in it.  Just goes to show, you always have to dig in to learn anything, and even then you usually end up in a medical and nutrition world with tons of information and almost no consensus on what's true.
WOW only a few days on this site and already a negative opinionated person feels the need to respond to my question.  I do have plenty of real friends. It's very pretentious of you to assume I don't. None of them are on this site, so I'd like to get support and offer  to others here. If I want to refer to them as friends that's my business not yours. I don't care how you refer to the people here, be I will refer to them as I please.
I tried to help.  You just came here and tried to make me feel bad.  I'm sorry I didn't help.  This is a medical site where people come on and try to get help with health problems, so answers tend to be opinions about what might actually help.  When we disagree on here, it's okay -- people do disagree and with health issues there is usually no consensus solution.  For me, I'm sorry if I made you feel bad.  But I didn't try to do that.
649848 tn?1534637300
COMMUNITY LEADER
Here's an excerpt from article about fat vs sugar in milk from 2015:

"Several prominent nutrition researchers, including Walter Willett, who is known for his ongoing, long term health studies, and David Ludwig, who like Willett teaches at the Harvard School of Public Health, have been questioning dietary guidelines that promote low-fat and skim milk over whole milk. Often, flavorings such as chocolate and strawberry and sugars are added to low-fat and skim milk to make up for the loss of taste when the fat is removed. In those cases, the sugar content can increase by as much as 14g per cup. Studies are increasingly indicating that sugar can lead to heart disease and other health problems, even in individuals who are not overweight."

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/oct/09/low-fat-whole-milk-usda-dietary-guidelines

Note: "flavorings such as chocolate and strawberry or sugars are added to low-fat and skim milk to make up for the loss of taste when the fat is removed..."

By the way, I was raised on a farm, where we milked our own cows and separated our cream from the milk.  The cream was used to make butter (which we did ourselves) or whipped cream or in place of milk on our cereal, etc.  But before the days of automatic separators, we had to do the separation by hand and it was impossible to get all the cream, so there was plenty of fat left in the milk to it flavor.  The milk we didn't need for our own use was taken in milk cans to the nearest processor and sold.  The milk was neither homogenized, nor pasteurized; none of us ever had weight or health problems from consuming the raw, full fat milk/cream or the products, such as butter, cottage cheese, etc that we produced from it.

I'm aware that trans fats are "supposed" to be banned, however, there are still plenty of products in which they can be found, such as cakes, cookies, breads, crackers, etc.  

Studies have shown that saturated fats aren't the villains they've been made out, for years, to be.  

According to Harvard Health: "But what's interesting about coconut oil is that it also gives "good" HDL cholesterol a boost. Fat in the diet, whether it's saturated or unsaturated, tends to nudge HDL levels up, but coconut oil seems to be especially potent at doing so.

Saturated fat is divided into various types, based on the number of carbon atoms in the molecule, and about half of the saturated fat in coconut oil is the 12-carbon variety, called lauric acid. That is a higher percentage than in most other oils, and is probably responsible for the unusual HDL effects of coconut oil. But plant-based oils are more than just fats. They contain many antioxidants and other substances, so their overall effects on health can't be predicted just by the changes in LDL and HDL."
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/coconut-oil

As you say Paxiled, "Just goes to show, you always have to dig in to learn anything, and even then you usually end up in a medical and nutrition world with tons of information and almost no consensus on what's true."  You're so right... We have to dig and dig and as has already been noted - for every article I find saying something is healthy, you can find one saying it isn't... there is no agreement, because none of us fits into the same little box and every study comes up with conflicting evidenc.  All we can do is share what we believe to be right and true and/or what worked for us.  I've even had my doctor(s) put me on diets that made me worse off than I was when I started, so even they don't know...  

A high fat diet may not be right (or advisable) for everyone and I'd certainly suggest talking to your doctor before trying it.  Of course, most doctors, including mine, would advise against it, but there are definitely health issues that could be worsened by adding too much fat to the diet...
2 Comments
Basically you just confirmed everything I said.  If half the fat of coconut is good fat, what's the other half?  That's the problem.  Pretty much all of fish oil is HDL.  Flax and hemp seed oil has some Omegas that aren't the best, but have more HDL than coconut.  Saturated fat isn't always as bad as we thought, yes, but that doesn't make it good, which is what I said.  It just makes it less bad than thought.  Still means, don't eat too much of it.  You also confirmed that skim and low fat milk don't have sugar in them -- but flavored mild and flavored yogurt often do, which is what I said.  That doesn't stop companies from marketing chocolate milk to athletes, which is happening a lot lately.  As for cow's milk, most of us do not live on farms.  We buy our food in health food stores or grocery stores.  It is very hard to find legal raw milk today, and all milk sold nowadays is homogenized.  This forum is for all people, not just for those who live on a dairy farm, so it is to them I'm speaking so they are no mislead.  There is no disagreement at all that cow's milk is not digestible by a large percentage of the population because humans are simply not born with lactase, the enzyme you need to digest it.  You can make it easier by culturing or fermenting it or eating it raw, when it still contains some of the enzymes, but nature designed mammals to consume only the milk of their parents until weaning.  That's biology.  We can force feed anything into our bodies, humans can do that as we are omnivorous, as long as we're willing to pay the long-term price, which isn't necessarily being overweight.  It is heart disease from clogged arteries from all that saturated fat that oxidized and therefore stuck to the arteries.  Takes a long time for that to bite you, but if you don't need to eat it, then why force it into your system?  The answer is, because people make money doing it.  Dairy farmers are an invention of the 20th century, as I've said -- before that marketing campaign cows were largely there for moderate consumption but mostly to fertilize the farm.  Now we fertilize most farms with petroleum.  Humans invented the cow -- there are no wild cows.  We invented wheat.  They did not evolve slowly, taking the thousands of years to winnow out what works and what doesn't.  Personally, I have no problem if someone wants to consume whatever they want to consume, but there are facts and there are theories -- facts are proven, theories are not, and marketing is just propaganda.  The reason you can find studies on anything is because companies are paying for them.  I was in the food business for a very long time, and the family business was restaurant equipment, so most of my life has been spent around what people eat and how it got that way.  And hydrogenated fats aren't banned -- they're just not as popular anymore.  The money now is in pretending to be healthful or actually being healthful, so companies are producing more healthful products, but you can still buy as much hydrogenated fat as you want.  Margarine is still on every grocery store refrigerator shelf.  I didn't really mean to get into this so deeply with you, and I can see how growing up on a dairy farm makes this an emotional issue for you.  If you want to consume an all-dairy diet, that's fine with me.  I'm just trying to let people know there are others who don't believe it's a good thing to do, but everyone gets to decide how to feed themselves, I'm not the food police, and I eat lots of things that I know aren't good for me because life is way too short and hard to avoid pleasure where you can get it.  I just try to balance it with lots of healthy things that contain the antioxidants and enzymes to counterbalance the harm and hope for the best.  Anyhoo, again, it's been a long time, since Gymdandee  was kicked off the website, since we had a good barnburner of a discussion.  It's not only fun, it lets people see some disagreement exists out there in the real world.  Peace, all.  
Oh, I should add, dairy is also inflammatory.  So is wheat.  Long-term inflammation is a huge problem, implicated in many diseases, including arthritis and heart disease and alzheimer's.  It's not just weight.
649848 tn?1534637300
COMMUNITY LEADER
Wow - I'm not sure you read what I wrote.  I have no idea how you figure that I confirmed everything you said, but if you want to believe that, that's fine...

""flavorings such as chocolate and strawberry OR SUGARS are added to low-fat and skim milk to make up for the loss of taste when the fat is removed..."

I'd also like to point out that I did not grow up on "a dairy farm", so this is not an "emotional issue" for me... I grew up on a farm and we happened to have cattle from which we extracted milk that we used to make other products.  We also raised their calves, raised beef cattle (different from dairy cattle) from which we did not extract milk (we only raised them for the meat).  We, also, raised hogs and chickens, sometimes geese, along with corn, soybeans, oats, wheat and of course a large garden that included tomatoes, potatoes (both white and sweet), beans of various types, onions, turnips, rutabagas, melons, cucumbers and other veggies.  This was back in the 50's and 60's before confinement feeding and widespread use of chemicals, so food was actually healthier than it is today. We, literally, "ate the rainbow", as they say we should do.  We picked asparagus that grew wild in the road ditches, plums that grew along the edges of fields, we had a couple of apple trees... etc

You're certainly right that this forum is for everyone and everyone must decide how to feed themselves.  All we do is present information as we see it - and yes, there is an abundance of evidence that changes, almost on a daily basis.  Whatever one chooses to eat, should, most likely be done on a moderate basis, since anything that's overdone can be bad for us.
1 Comments
Just to note, again, the 50's and 60's were the absolute height of harmful chemicals being used in agriculture, not a low point.  That's when they were introduced in huge volumes, and caused a ton of cancer in farmers who applied them without wearing any protection.  Salespeople used to come to the farms and drink the stuff to show how "safe" these chemicals were.  The chemicals used now are safer and in lower volumes.  There's a once famous book written by a pesticide salesman we used to sell in the health food stores and also sold in all alternative book stores that used to be prevalent in those days that describes this.  It was also when confinement feeding was invented, leading to the animal rights movement and environmental movements that got started in the late 50's and early 60's.  I grew up in the 50's, and lived through the cancer epidemic that hit in the 60's that took my mother.  As for me, again, having been around and in the food biz for much of my life, I've never seen plain milk of any level of fat that has any added sugar.  Only flavored milk has it, to my knowledge.  Perhaps you can list some examples of products that are plain milk, not flavored milk, that add sugar in case anyone still reads this forum so they can avoid them -- I don't shop in supermarkets and don't drink milk so I don't know what's out there anymore, but my wife does use milk in her coffee but again, it's organic milk from the health food store so I'm just no longer familiar with what's sold in supermarkets.  If this is true, it would be good for readers to know it's happening.  
649848 tn?1534637300
COMMUNITY LEADER
"the 50's and 60's were the absolute height of harmful chemicals being used in agriculture, not a low point."  Not where I came from... Nor did we have "Salespeople used to come to the farms and drink the stuff to show how "safe" these chemicals were".   Some people used DDT, which we all know was banned in the 70's. I don't remember my dad using it, but he very well may have.

Nor did we have confinement centers in our part of the country in the 50's, for sure; in the area I grew up, there weren't confinement operations until the 70's.  Where my husband grew up, there were a few getting started in the late 60's, but they were small operations and most people were against them.  Even then, they weren't true "confinement" operations; they were "feed lots" in which cattle or hogs were kept.  They weren't kept in the confinement buildings until later - like late 70's/80's and that was mostly hogs, which is still done today.  When chickens got started in the area, it was horrible, because they packed them into the buildings like sardines in a can.  We didn't have any of those in our area until the late 80's and people really didn't like those (myself included). I don't buy meat/chicken that I know was raised in confinement, fed grains, etc that is full of chemicals.

I'm sorry about your mother. That's very difficult.  My own mother died young, but not from cancer.

I understand that you've been in the health food business most of your life and don't believe that anyone would put sugar in milk to make it taste better.  I've personally, never seen it happen, but I've read several articles, saying it does, so I can only assume that in some cases it might.  I totally agree that if people are drinking milk, they really need to read labels and make sure they know, both, the sugar and fat content of the milk they're buying.  Personally, I'd opt for some extra fat over the sugar, since studies have shown that saturated fat isn't the villain it was once thought, but that's just me.  

Of course, as already noted, moderation is the key... we'd not expect anyone to make milk, coconut oil, etc the center of their meals.   I think we can agree that vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds would be center of a healthy meal, though I, personally, limit my fruits because of the fructose (sugar) content.
1 Comments
And I also agree with you, I didn't mean to suggest I didn't, that if you are going to drink milk, whole milk is the way to go, though If I were inclined to drink milk I'd drink goat's milk, not cow's milk, as a goat has a digestive system like ours and cows have one that is unlike any other creature.  Gotta drink it fresh, though, or it tastes pretty gamey.  Personally, I use soy milk, but there's a lot of people who have problems with soy, too.  I see that I implied it wasn't, but I completely agree with you.  I wish I could remember the name of the book on the history of pesticide use but it's been awhile.  But remember, the EPA didn't come about until the Nixon Administration, and after that we got national pesticide and herbicide laws.  Before that it was pretty much a free for all, although California got a head start on everyone else with the original model for the Clean Air Act and moved on to other environmental regulations that were adopted later by the federal gov't.  (I not only got involved in the health food biz to push organic food but also was an environmental lawyer).  Most of our early pesticides and herbicides came from the research conducted on chemical weapons for the two world wars -- anything toxic to one form of life can be made toxic to another.  
649848 tn?1534637300
COMMUNITY LEADER
It's probably important to note that what you might have been doing on a research basis wasn't actually taking place in every day life, all over the country, and California was ahead of other parts of the country in a number of things. Aside from growing up on a farm, my husband I also operated a farm for a number of years, after we were married.  During "that" time, chemicals were much more prevalent than they had been when I was growing up.  I was quite leery of them, as my father-in-law was burned quite badly, at one time, by a chemical spill on the farm.  

I did work in the Environmental sector for more than 20 yrs, and I do realize that EPA was established during the Nixon era.  The Clean Water Act wasn't even passed until 1972, but has been expanded on several times.  Now, I fear that it will be set back and some areas will no longer have clean water.

I agree that cow's milk is best, when it's fresh and preferably ice cold, though I've drank it many times straight from the cow, as a child.

I don't do soy of any kind... I grew up being taught that soy is hog feed and I've never acquired a taste for it, even though it's touted as "good for us".  It's also considered a goitrogen and as a thyroid patient is on my list of "do not eat" foods.  It's one of the few things I'm adamant about not eating, though I will eat other goitrogens because I feel that their dietary value outweighs the harm they might do, since my thyroid no longer works anyway, as long as they aren't eaten in excess.

At this particular time, my naturopathic doctor has me on a diet that's as wheat, dairy, sugar and soy free as I can get.  Of course, the soy is not an issue, as noted above; the others are a bit more difficult, as I'm sure you can imagine.  I've also recently been handed a special diet to help control kidney stones, which eliminates a lot of vegetables, so I'm learning to eat all over again...

I've never tried goat's milk and it's not readily available in my area, though goat cheese is.  For milk, when I feel I need it, I'm experimenting with almond milk, but that doesn't go well in some foods.  I do use some coconut milk, but again, we have that "fat factor" so I don't use a lot of it, since I use some coconut oil, as well.

I don't think we disagree on the basic principles...  :-)
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I tried almond milk and even almond milk ice cream, but I just don't like it -- funny, because I do love almonds.  Soy has gotten controversial because of the supposed estrogenic effects, but I'm not buying it.  I also know that the notion got started by the beef industry in the same campaign advertising beef on TV.  So I just stick with the soy milk.  As I always say, though, nobody needs to eat soy to be healthy.  Sorry about your kidney problems -- that does not sound fun.  
649848 tn?1534637300
COMMUNITY LEADER
I'm not crazy about almond milk, either, but so far it's better than the others I've tried.  I'll use coconut milk in a smoothie or something, but there's just something about that coconut taste in my scalloped potatoes that turns me off... :-)  Both almond milk and coconut milk work well in hot chocolate, which is now supposed to be off my list of things to drink, since chocolate is now a no-no.  Again, though, coconut flavored hot chocolate just doesn't really do it for me... lol

Thank you... you're right - kidney stones are the least fun of any of the medical issues I've ever had so far.  If you've  heard that passing a kidney stone is more painful than giving birth, believe it.  I've done both and I'd prefer to give birth any day... :-)   The kidney diet is the hardest to adhere to because it removes a lot of the veggies we hear that we really need to eat because they're the healthiest like beets, spinach, kale, chard, celery, summer squash, nuts and a whole lot more, including soy.  That makes soy, not only a goitrogen, but also high in oxalates.

Oddly, the kidney diet leaves things like potatoes, macaroni, rice, noodles, mayonaise, salad dressing, sugar/sweeteners, etc... all the things that aren't good for us!!  Of course, it also leaves a few fruits and some veggies like avocado, cauliflower, mushrooms, onions, peas, radishes and of course, meat, eggs, dairy, etc.
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I'd look further into that oxalate problem.  As I understand it, and I know accurate info is really really hard to get, the way you prepare those veggies has a lot to do with the oxalate problem.  Spinach is bad in this way cooked but not raw, in my understanding.  Same with chard, but it's not tasty raw as spinach is.  Kale, mustard greens, collards, beet tops, and such are the opposite, minimizing the problem if you cook them.  Summer squash is no loss, as there's not much nutritional value there, and in the holistic health community are considered inflammatory nightshades, so no problem there (they are also fruits, not vegetables, though we eat squash as a veggie).  As for soy, I've never heard that it is high in oxalates, and given the incredible variety of ways you can use it, I've got to believe some of the fermented forms of it are probably fine, such as miso and tempeh.  Don't know, but I'm assuming.  Avocado is also a fruit, not a veggie, which I know you know, and is also high in fat but it's considered to be good fat, but I'm the only person in the world who doesn't like them.  But if you can eat cauliflower I assume you can eat broccoli.  Then there are the incredibly nutritious green foods that are often found in salads, such as dandelion greens, parsley, watercress, and the like -- incredibly high in minerals and antioxidants.  I've also never heard of these being a big oxalate problem.  So something to doublecheck, but I'm not giving any advice here, just saying what I understand to be true, which is no guarantee of truth.  There is a supplement I would discuss with your doc, if you have one who is wiling to discuss such things, called Stone Free by Planetary Herbals.  This is a great company started by one of the world's foremost herbalists, so it's at least something to investigate.  So again, this all might just be a theory that doctors don't believe, but it's what the folks who treated people holistically used to teach.  Good luck with it.
By the way, this brings up one of my pet peeves, which is the raw kale fad.  I was taught that raw kale isn't digestible and makes it very high in the oxalate problem.  It contains fibers that are just too hard to break down unless you juice it or cook it.  This makes me wonder about all that raw kale people are eating now!
I don't know about cooking or eating the veggies raw as far as the oxalates.  My list just says to avoid certain ones or eat only in small amounts.  It also says if eating these foods, one should drink plenty of water before and after eating them, but it doesn't specify what "plenty" is.  It's too hard to keep up with what should be cooked and what can be eaten raw, so I find it easier to simply limit intake.

I know with the goitrogens, once they're cooked, they lose their goitrogenic properties.  That's easy to remember because they all behave the same.

I'm not a big kale eater; it's a little too bitter for my taste, but I love spinach, both raw and cooked.  It's great in pineapple/mango/banana smoothie with coconut milk, fresh ginger and cloves.  :-)

I happen to like summer squash - in fact, it's the only squash I eat, as I can't tolerate the texture of most others.
My wife loves zucchini, but I'm not a great over or hater of it as far as taste.  But it is pro-inflammatory and contains very little nutrition, so I'd rather she didn't like it so much.  I love winter squash -- one of my favorite types of fruit.  I particularly love kaboocha, butternut, and acorn.  But they are very high in beta carotene, and I remember one macrobiotic customer I had when I managed health food stores who used to buy kaboocha by the case.  She actually had yellow skin from eating so much of it.  Can't be healthy.  As for kale, I used to hate it along with many foods until I discovered organic food.  It's quite sweet when grown organically, though it takes a long time to cook it so it's tender enough to eat.  Love collards.  You might try red kale -- it's sweeter and more tender and takes less time to cook.  As far as cooking and not cooking, you cook the tough ones like collards and kale and not spinach, if you want to best digest them and limit the oxalates.  Other soft greens that are really high in minerals and best eaten raw are dandelion greens, watercress, and other salad greens that aren't lettuce, which is mostly water.  But that's only if you want to eat them.  What makes them important is the balance of magnesium to calcium and the absorbability of them, as opposed to dairy which is too high in calcium and devoid of magnesium so it's easy to get out of balance in your electrolytes if you eat them.  It's these deep green and red leafy veggies that provide the best source of the antioxidants and minerals that help us avoid cancer and heart problems and inflammation, if we're lucky enough to be able to absorb them.A great veggie for you might be artichoke, as it's very good for the liver and gall bladder.
I tend to forget that zucchini is a squash; I love "zoodles"; if you've never tried them, you might give them a try. They're great with a little marinara on them or you can use an alfredo if you prefer.

There's something about winter squash and some other veggies - I think it's the texture - that I just can't tolerate.  I have a hard time with cooked carrots, though I love raw carrots.  I have a friend who drank so much carrot juice (juiced it herself) that her skin turned yellow).  I'm just learning to eat sweet potatoes, but the only way I can tolerate them is baked with butter and salt and pepper, though I know a lot of people eat them with cinnamon.  That makes them too sweet for me.  My husband only eats them "candied", swimming in butter and brown sugar, then topped with marshmallows at the end of their cooking time.  Eeeewwww

I've tried artichokes and it's another one that doesn't strike me as anything I really want to make a favorite...lol  I don't have a gallbladder, so eating things that help the gallbladder is a mute point for me.
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