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Sociopath??? Or just plain cunning??
I just read an article on this wesite (ODD-sociopathic 10 year old boy - no hope?
by Beth R, Nov 10, 2004 12:00AM) and this sounds exactlylike my 11 year old son! We are at our wits end trying to figure his situation out. He's been seen by school counselors therepists pediatric doctors etc with no real solid anser for what's going on with him. Suspensions in his world are nothing! In fact he's serving an in school suspension today. The only difference from my son to this other ladies son in the article is that he's the "perfect" child at home. Aside from a few actions like treating his sister like she's the wrost thing that ever happened and the fact that he is throughly convinced his Dad is a full blown idiot. He shows me love and respect but has mastered how to play my strings like a fiddle. He seems remorseful when he gets in trouble but when you look deeper into his eyes you see that he is no where near feeling remorse for what he's done. We usually have to keep an eye on our 8yo daughter because of so many "accidents" that have happened while they were playing together, pushing and kicking punching and telling her in the most colorful ways how much he despises her. She loves him dearly anyways and is always there for him trying to love on him you can tell he doesn't like it at all. We wondered for a while if him getting in trouble was for attention so we would put him on punishment(ground him) and not talk about the situation or anything still happened... It's usually at school he hardly ever looses his temper at home but at school he will say and do some of the most creul things to children and teachers. Just yesterday a teacher didn't capitalize part of his first name on his worksheet so he corrected it and wrote next to it and I quote "this is how you spell my name genius." He's run off of school property when faced with being disiplined and almost always feels like he's the victim after he gets in trouble. He'll call himself stupid and idiodic dumb and write how much of a horrible child he is he's even gone as far as to bang his head on a desk or wall of course not hard enough to hurt his self beacuse it's really not his self he wants to hurt its as if he wants the persons around him to feel the remorse he doesn't feel. To defer the disipline into empathy for him. What can we do?? He leads a great life he's got 2 very caring parents, a couple of best friends that he's known for years a wonderful sister. I had a rather normal pregnancy a little high risk but he was and always has been a very healthy child. Great birthdays road trips family time it's not perfect but it's far from my childhood experience! One thing we've noticed is he never looks in the mirror at himself, I've suggested it a few times, go look in the mirror make a funny face play with your hair check out your ourfit but he doesn't I don't think he likes looking at himself...I could go on for days but like I said that article I just read is exactly like my son. He already goes to a charter school not quite a boarding school but close...Distraught in Denver!
This discussion is related to ODD-sociopathic 10 year old boy - no hope?.
by Beth R, Nov 10, 2004 12:00AM) and this sounds exactlylike my 11 year old son! We are at our wits end trying to figure his situation out. He's been seen by school counselors therepists pediatric doctors etc with no real solid anser for what's going on with him. Suspensions in his world are nothing! In fact he's serving an in school suspension today. The only difference from my son to this other ladies son in the article is that he's the "perfect" child at home. Aside from a few actions like treating his sister like she's the wrost thing that ever happened and the fact that he is throughly convinced his Dad is a full blown idiot. He shows me love and respect but has mastered how to play my strings like a fiddle. He seems remorseful when he gets in trouble but when you look deeper into his eyes you see that he is no where near feeling remorse for what he's done. We usually have to keep an eye on our 8yo daughter because of so many "accidents" that have happened while they were playing together, pushing and kicking punching and telling her in the most colorful ways how much he despises her. She loves him dearly anyways and is always there for him trying to love on him you can tell he doesn't like it at all. We wondered for a while if him getting in trouble was for attention so we would put him on punishment(ground him) and not talk about the situation or anything still happened... It's usually at school he hardly ever looses his temper at home but at school he will say and do some of the most creul things to children and teachers. Just yesterday a teacher didn't capitalize part of his first name on his worksheet so he corrected it and wrote next to it and I quote "this is how you spell my name genius." He's run off of school property when faced with being disiplined and almost always feels like he's the victim after he gets in trouble. He'll call himself stupid and idiodic dumb and write how much of a horrible child he is he's even gone as far as to bang his head on a desk or wall of course not hard enough to hurt his self beacuse it's really not his self he wants to hurt its as if he wants the persons around him to feel the remorse he doesn't feel. To defer the disipline into empathy for him. What can we do?? He leads a great life he's got 2 very caring parents, a couple of best friends that he's known for years a wonderful sister. I had a rather normal pregnancy a little high risk but he was and always has been a very healthy child. Great birthdays road trips family time it's not perfect but it's far from my childhood experience! One thing we've noticed is he never looks in the mirror at himself, I've suggested it a few times, go look in the mirror make a funny face play with your hair check out your ourfit but he doesn't I don't think he likes looking at himself...I could go on for days but like I said that article I just read is exactly like my son. He already goes to a charter school not quite a boarding school but close...Distraught in Denver!
This discussion is related to ODD-sociopathic 10 year old boy - no hope?.
COMMUNITY LEADER
From your description I don't think he is an ODD-sociopathic kid. Cunning? Definitely! Typically really bright kids can get into trouble before they get the maturation to control themselves. However, because they are really bright, they also tend to figure this out faster then the normal child. Of course, they also can figure out how to manipulate the situation just as fast.
Couple of things do bother me though. You said, "He's been seen by school counselors therepists pediatric doctors etc." Since I doubt that he has seen them all this year - there must have been some past history going on. What have the teachers in other grade levels said? He does seem impulsive. And I don't like the fact that he calls, " himself stupid and idiotic dumb." When he obviously isn't. While he could be saying this for attention, it may also be because he is impulsively doing things before he has a chance to think about it. If he is seeming to become more depressed, or more frustrated with the way things are going- then I would have more concerns.
It is possible he has something like ADHD. Due to his intelligence, the schools would not pick up any academic shortfalls - behavior yes! I have had kids that were not diagnosed until 5th grade or later because the math finally got to hard for them. If he is that sharp, he might not have a problem till algebra. Does his homework take any longer than it should? He probably should be done in 30 min or less.
Anyway, it is important to try and figure this out. If he does have ADHD than the punishments and the way you work with him are different than with a child who is just doing the wrong things. Based on what you have said - I can't tell. The impulsiveness is a definite clue (but that could also be maturation - unless he has always been impulsive). The negative feelings - if they are real - do bother me!
You might want to read a book I recommend a lot on the ADHD forum and that is, "The ADD/ ADhD Answer book." , by Susan Ashley. Another interesting one is, a new book by a UC Berkley honors student with severe ADHD about growing up with ADHD. The book is called - "ADHD and Me, What I learned from lighting fires at the dinner table," by Blake Taylor.
By the way - I have never found that looking deep into someones eyes, or making them look you in the eyes ever helped much. What works is constant discipline so even if they don't show that it is working - they know what will always happen. Of course, if they are having trouble controlling what is happening, then its a different story. Hope this helps. Good Luck!
Couple of things do bother me though. You said, "He's been seen by school counselors therepists pediatric doctors etc." Since I doubt that he has seen them all this year - there must have been some past history going on. What have the teachers in other grade levels said? He does seem impulsive. And I don't like the fact that he calls, " himself stupid and idiotic dumb." When he obviously isn't. While he could be saying this for attention, it may also be because he is impulsively doing things before he has a chance to think about it. If he is seeming to become more depressed, or more frustrated with the way things are going- then I would have more concerns.
It is possible he has something like ADHD. Due to his intelligence, the schools would not pick up any academic shortfalls - behavior yes! I have had kids that were not diagnosed until 5th grade or later because the math finally got to hard for them. If he is that sharp, he might not have a problem till algebra. Does his homework take any longer than it should? He probably should be done in 30 min or less.
Anyway, it is important to try and figure this out. If he does have ADHD than the punishments and the way you work with him are different than with a child who is just doing the wrong things. Based on what you have said - I can't tell. The impulsiveness is a definite clue (but that could also be maturation - unless he has always been impulsive). The negative feelings - if they are real - do bother me!
You might want to read a book I recommend a lot on the ADHD forum and that is, "The ADD/ ADhD Answer book." , by Susan Ashley. Another interesting one is, a new book by a UC Berkley honors student with severe ADHD about growing up with ADHD. The book is called - "ADHD and Me, What I learned from lighting fires at the dinner table," by Blake Taylor.
By the way - I have never found that looking deep into someones eyes, or making them look you in the eyes ever helped much. What works is constant discipline so even if they don't show that it is working - they know what will always happen. Of course, if they are having trouble controlling what is happening, then its a different story. Hope this helps. Good Luck!
Let me just say 1 more thing he is very smart has a huge vocabualry loves to read plays "normal" children games I've been told he most likely has a high IQ and can finish a 700 page book in a week loves math and science hates english unless its writting about his own ideas and could care less to learn about art because he feels like his teacher can't teach him anything he doesn't already knkow about it. PHEW!
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