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I Have HBSAG Loss after being 4years

Hi Everyone

First of all I would like to thank everyone for sharing information and experiences in this forum but in particular in Studyforhope and Stef2011 who I have bombarded with questions at times and   which they have  both always patiently and  kindly answered with great useful info which I am eternally grateful for.

Heres my story

I was diagnosed back in 2011

I have been on a TAF trial  for about 14 months…

My baseline started at

DNA 600 million Approx
HBEAG  18k approx.
HBSAG 50k approx.

My current stats are

DNA Undetctable
HBEAG NON REACTIVE
HBEAB REACTIVE
HBSAG NON REACTIVE
HBSAB NON REACTIVE

THIS IS THE BEST CHRISTMAS PRESENT IVE EVER HAD

So I’ve got surface antigen loss but no anti bodies as yet (fingers crossed)

I thought I was going to wait until I developed anti bodies but I think that would have been selfish of me.

What I done with food meds and supplements consists of the following
1. Drink 1 x glass of water  then drink warm water with lemon + 2x spoon of organic honey
2. 15mins later  eat porridge mixed with blue berries raspberries black berries + Bannana  + honey (Take Meds )
3. Take powder vitamin C ascorbate powder version (allow to dissolve under the tongue) Brand used was “Mega” and Bio Care
4. Snack  Bannana with yoghurt/ Or 2 to 3 peaces of fruit
5. Lunch would consist of veg or salad same with dinner (Take vit B with Lunch)
6. Fruit or sandwich as a snack in the evening
7. Take liquid vitamin D3 twice weekly  before bed for 12 months (7000ml each dose) for the first 12 months. Changed this to daily when my ALT dramatically reduced as I became worried my immune response had stopped so I done it daily.  Brand used was solgar
8. Take Magnesium before bed aswell Brand I used at first was Nutri. (Due to high Malic acid content) Then they added creatine to their new  formula (the last thing anyone on Tenofivir needs is more creatine for obvious reasons) so I switched to  Viridian brand which is powder again but it’s a combination of Calcium Magnesium and Zinc. Seems to do the job
9. I do still use Nutri’s probiotics  called Ultra Probioplex ND Capsuels. As I read research about probiotics and their links to the immune system plus being helpful against fatty liver disease
10. Make sure I would drink at least 2 to 3 litres of water per day. (Half litre with lemon)
11. NO ALCOHOL EVER its like kryptonite to someone with Hepatitis


Activities  I did
1. I regularly pray meditate perform positive affirmation. Belief is a huge part of recovery you need to believe that you are going to recover.

2. Bikram Yoga (The amount you sweat in Bikram is amazing and the skin is the bodies largest organ. 3-4 per week regular (until recently due to work commitments). Yoga is working on a hormonal level and there is research done at Harvard that back up many health benefits. Plus I love it . But I still practice Hatha anyway when I can . Please note I would drink coco but water after Bikram due to electrolyte loss

3. Spinning classes (using interval training) as my thinking behind intervals is I read research before cancerous cells “commit  suicide” when switching between aerobic and anaerobic systems. Don’t how applicable that is to hep b but heart and lungs are important anyway

4. Resistance based exercise as there’s a lot data to support its value in reversing fatty liver based training  disease and maintaining good muscle and bone density. (Ive been focused on this a lot more lately as its more convenient)

5. I go running implement fart lek  based training

6. Particular good Yoga breathing technique  kapalbhati I found this particularly helpful

7. I would do colonics every 2 months as I figured cant have a healthy without healthy bowels.

8. I occasionally practice Qi Gong aswell


~The one thing I must stress at the beginning so many people said  “you’ve got it for life” but part  of me would NOT accept that. You have to keep bouncing back after every rejection, anything that goes wrong, you have to be resilient you have to be relentless.  I  Surrounded myself and communicate with the people who share the same or similar goals as I do  I distanced myself from those who are negative and destructive.  Because I found being in a state of frustration due to debating things wont chane was  not helpful to me as a person. Remember there is always a choice who you allow to speak into your life its good to  receive  balanced feedback but not just a negative unhelpful opinion.

I tried keeping an open mind being stubborn about my goal but flexible in my methods is a philosophy I try to live by because guess what some times "life happens when we make plans" John Lennons words

I would focus on doing things that put me in a state of joy and feel gratitude is so important.

Obviously do research and  study when you can dedicate time to learning health related topics. Ie Meds and trials,  Food,  Exercise  different types and there different benefits.

Learn  different forms of relaxation find that which makes you feel best.  Remember  anxiety and stress can release not so friendly chemicals into the body. Stress is unavoidable but finding ways of dealing with it is key. For example I enjoy watching comedies as the expression goes "laughter is cheap medicine."

I really wish everyone else the best of luck and hope we all get cured to.


I made promise to God even if I get cured I will still try and help others with Hep B when possible. I always  keep the Hep community in my prayers and we are a community and that’s something I’m grateful for.

I feel like I’ve had such a massive lesson with Hepatitis so far and  once again thankyou EVERYONE in this community.

Hope you all enjoy the festive period with your loved ones
56 Responses
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Avatar universal
No problem :)
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10915849 tn?1415112928
I just saw your reply

Thank you
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Avatar universal
Hepatitis D can coexist with HBV.  I've had it tested and it is pretty routine if you are HBV positive, especially if both are fairly common in your country.
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Avatar universal
It used to be that attaining HbeAg negative and HbeAb positive was a good thing but then they found that some still have high viral load and much damage, which Stef mentioned due to mutations that still produce HbeAg and create that e negative HBV.  Now, we know that as long as you have HbeAg negative, HbeAb positive, no or low viral load which is less than 2000 iu/ml, normal alt, most would agree you are in the inactive stage.  If you can track quantitative hbsag you will have an even better idea if you are inactive or not.  

Be sure to monitor HbeAg, viral load, alt because you can revert back to HbeAg positive, you can go from inactive to e antigen HBV (active), or you can stay in the inactive stage.  HBV is sneaky and over time your status can change.  Hopefully you are in the inactive stage and stay that way.  In the inactive stage still monitor with labs and scans, because we still have that HCC and cirrhosis risk, although lower in the true inactive stage.
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1 Comments
Thank you so much for sharing. Any idea why do they want me to do the hepatitis d serology test after the result?
Avatar universal
A kind gentlemen just has explained the result to me and after read this website http://www.hepb.org/patients/additional_blood_tests.htm one again I think I still got it.
HBeAb or anti-HBe (Hepatitis B e-Antibody) - This antibody is made in response to the e-antigen and is detected in patients who have recovered from hepatitis B infections as well as those who are chronically infected. Chronically infected individuals who stop producing e-antigen sometimes produce e-antibodies. The clinical significance of this result is unclear but it is generally considered to be a good thing. In rare cases, anti-HBe may be associated with active viral replication in patients with e-antigen negative virus mutations.

Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Oh yeah i was very tired when I read that.

Thats why i mention "typical life cycle"

Congrats as in hbeag neg and hbeab positive.


But thats why i asked for the rest of the stats
Helpful - 0
1 Comments
Thanks! Congrats to you too I am very happy for you. :)

I will ask my doctor about your tablet next time I see them.
Avatar universal
sara just said she got E antibody, she got hbeag negative, not a great news because it means nothing in terms of improvement or clearance of infection

most of the time is a worsening with precore or bcp if this happens without therapy (nucs or peg)
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Avatar universal
Can you share with us Sara how did you clear the virus? Like the way needadvicewithhelp mentioned. Thanks!
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Avatar universal
Congrats

Bearing in mind the typical life cycle of the virus.

Also did you get your other stats checked hbsag, hbsab, ALT, AST??
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Avatar universal
I was infected from birth and just a few days before Chrismas I got a report from hospital confirming that I now got E  antibody positive after e antigen negative for a few years. I still can not believe this. I'm asking for another blood test just in case it was an error somewhere in the process.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Heres a link with information


http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/insite?page=hmq-1305-01

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10915849 tn?1415112928
Hey, I don't know what TAF means? Can you explain for me?
Thank you
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Avatar universal
of course, HBsAg neg = much less virus (close to zero) = much less mutation chances
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Avatar universal
Thanks

Obviously being geno type C with mutations is riskier.

But HBSAG 'Non Reactive" reduces the chances of mutations?
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Avatar universal
Even with a pos antibody level, there will be remnant virions produced in the liver.

HCC risk will be reduced if precursor clones are diminished, which typically produce hbsag - not always virions in case of integrated hbv sequences.

But a pos antibody is a strong sign that the remaining hbsag production from all these sources is minute.
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Avatar universal
Hi Studyforhope thanks


"The undetectable status of the pcr blood test DOES NOT MEAN that no more virus is produced in the liver. It means that the small remnant amount is absorbed and internalized mostly directly in the liver"

So in regards to the above comments even if hbsab are produced does it mean there is still remnants absorbed into the liver?

But would I be right in assuming it dramatically reduces the chances of HCC with hbsab rather than without? like a resolved acute infection for example?


Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
We cannot say at this point if TAF or TDF is more potent in the induction of a hbsag loss.There are good reasons to think that TAF is more potent in the hbv replication inhibition in the liver.
Both substances are just chemical precursors that have to undergo critical transport processes, stability issues while en route to the  hepatocyte cytosol and enzyme mediated processing to the final metabolite that enacts the actual inhibitory action on the hbv polymerase :TENOFOVIR DIPHOSPHATE.

NakedTenofovir itself can barely enter the liver cell and is therefore almost completely filtered away in the kidney glomerula, where HOWEVER it is afterwards actively absorbed into the proximal tubuli by a special transport mechanism unique to these cells. That is the reason for its accumulation in the tubuli cells with the resultant toxicity for the kidneys.

Tenofovir disiproxil fumarate,  the actual chemical in the viread pill is absorbed in the intestine at a decent about 50% efficacy.

When it enters the bloodstream and reaches the liver via the portal vein, it immediately starts to fall apart with a fairly short time constant, slow enough thankfully that a small portion of INTACT TDF will touch the liver cells and then be absorbed to the inside, where it's further processing via 3 steps to TENOFOVIR DIPHOSPHATE will start.

All the other TDF will dissociate into naked TENOFOVIR that cannot enter the liver and is eliminated in the kidney.

TAF is fundamentally different in its pharmokinetic behaviour in that it is STABLE in the blood stream and will enter the the liver and other organs with ease, LEADING MOST LIKELY TO A SUBSTANTIALLY HIGHER intracellular concentration in the hepatocytes and after the 3 further processing steps will achieve a HIGHER FINAL CONCENTRATION OF TENOFOVIR DIPHOSPHATE in the cell, with a higher inhibition of the hbv polymerase and a resulting slowdown in the remaining synthesis of new hbv dna and virions.

The problem with all antivirals is that the synthesis inhibition is not truly complete, leading to a much slower but ongoing reinfection, therefore no cure, no true dry up op virus production.

The undetectable status of the pcr blood test DOES NOT MEAN that no more virus is produced in the liver. It means that the small remnant amount is absorbed and internalized mostly directly in the liver.

In summary, it is possible that TAF leads to substantially higher TENOFOVIR  DIPHOSPHATE concentrations in the liver, despite its dramatically reduced dose of 25mg vs 300mg, which might further result in a smaller remnant virion production and consecutive reinfection of neighboring liver cells so that immune mechanisms operating simultaneously might have a higher chance of catching up and reducing the total amount of infected liver cells better than TDF.

But I have to say "MIGHT" because we cannot directly measure these metabolites and infected cell numbers in a human trial. All we can do is follow surrogate markers like serum hbv dna and hbsag.
It is also possible that the potent advantages of TAF over TDF are mainly lost due to the dramatic dose reduction.
What is quite certain however is that a huge reduction in the kidney burden by NAKED TENOFOVIR will occur with the small TAF dose, and that would in itself be progress towards the kidney and bone problems that , to a small but obvious degree are burdening the long term use OF TDF in some patients.
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Avatar universal
Stef whats your thoughts on the vit d supplement i posted the link for?
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Avatar universal
it is just coincidence taf like all other nucs will keep same low hbsag loss close to 0-1% for hbeag neg.

hbeag pos on tdf gets 16% hbsag loss by 3 years so maybe taf will improve this a little but very unlikely for hbeag neg
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Avatar universal
Thankyou my friend.
Yes agreed its a blessing that im eternally grateful for :)

Makes me speculate a little thinking if you are on tdf and then they make the switch to TAF could the same happen hbsag loss happen for you? We live in interesting times :)
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1 Comments
Congratulations for your recovery.. I just wanted to know how was your lifestyle? Did you ever developed problem of OCD with this disease??
Avatar universal
Hey there! I am Genotype D, which is primarily dominate in the European countries (though I am in the USA). Most Genotype C are of Asian culture, so yes yours is a bit rare to see but it does happen. Genotype C is also the highest risk of HCC from what I understand. What has happened to you is a blessing!! Keep up the excellent work!
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Avatar universal
From air Haha that actually sounds funny. :)

It seems a bit difficult to quantify as its liquid.

Stef did look you at the link i posted with the vit d supplement i was using?

My vit d levels were very high i was told by the doxs. I'll get the exact numbers on my next appointment and post them.

But its funny when i used vit d a did feel alot more energized
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Avatar universal
definitely not getting vit d from that supplement, you get more from thin air that from 700iu

mushrooms are rich of vit d2 it could be from there and from the fact you were clearing hbv but levels for immune boosting are 80-100ng/ml i dont think you reached it
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Avatar universal
The sun? No way im in the uk.

My diet has has alot of mushrooms oily fatty fishes etc

My vit d levels are high aswell

Oh yeah I wouldnt be suprised re taking the NUCS nor would I mind im just praying for anti bodies now

Well im caucasian and geni type c my doc said im the first they met with that profile.

From what i understand geno type is the most vulnerable yet the most aggressive.

Lucky what geno type are yoy?
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