screaming tirades with no memory of screaming

[oicu812abc]

From the time our relationship became serious when we were 21 years of age (we are in our 50s now) my then-girlfriend, then-fiancee, and now wife has often verbally assailed me in front of others in an extreme manner. Each time this occurs she uses the exact same wording as before, her body language is the same and the look of absolute hate on her face is the most disturbing of all. Her outbursts have nothing to do with a monthly cycle or menopause. I have tried confronting her about this after she has calmed down from about 5 minutes after the event to 24 hours after the event and the results are the same: A few seconds (literally about 10 seconds maximum) of listening to me followed by another screaming fit of denying any of it happened at all.  This woman is NOT a liar. She does not lie. She really believes she did not pitch these fits.  Her dad pitches fits like this to his wife as well.
To show the magnitude of this problem an example is given:
  Wife and I were at a large grocery store in our hometown when she encountered a fried of hers that I did not know. After standing quietly at her side for about a minute I decided to introduce myself at a lull in their conversation. I never got the opportunity. The wife observed me drawing a breath to say something and her favorite tirade spewed from her mouth at about 95decibels. "I'm independent!" I don't need anybody, especially YEEEOOOOOUUUUU ! (wagging finger in my face during the long pronunciation of the word 'you') If you ever do anything to come between me and my independence you'll get your what-for ! "  I still do not know who that woman 'we' met at the store was. At the end of the tirade I turned and went to wait for her in the car. It was at most 5 minutes later my wife came to the car angry with me at leaving her alone in the store (independence, anyone?) and professing no knowledge of her outburst. Literally screamed at me that she did no such thing and that she was not screaming at me while she was screaming at me in the car.

There are many other topics she screams about and if someone in a group brings up anything remotely related to these topics she often goes on one of her tirades.

Her dad is like this too.  What's the source of this behavior?  She needs help, big time.  And So Do I.  I love this woman and she is normally quite sweet and loving but this has to stop.  Either by her overcoming her problem or separation.
Please Help.

[MikeMule]

This is definitely not ADHD.
Could be anything from touret to disassociative personality.
Any time there is no memory of one's actions, this is a serious thing. I guess if it was going to be worse than verbal tirades, you would have seen it after 30+ years.
I have seen a case of possession with very similar symptoms. (go ahead, laugh, balk, whatever, I know what I saw at the exorcism. typical possession is nothing like what movies have made it out to be.)
You're not going to get anywhere on this without professional help, and you're going to have to show your wife video evidence of it for her to believe you.

[AnxiousNoMore]

As I explained, I have lived with an ADHD stepson who has this exact behavior so it is not correct to say it is "definitely" not ADHD - possibly he has another problem that is not diagnosed, but our guessing game has endless possibilities since she might have the same issues. Only a professional can diagnose his wife so both of our posts are just background possibilities.

Hopefully his wife will go for a diagnosis, but anyone who denies events is likely anosognosic about them.  

[KatherineTull]

I'm sorry if it feels like I'm driving in an already made point, but from a social perspective, insisting that someone is possessed or "demonising" their pain is really damaging.
It's the same reason why you wouldn't call someone with a visible physical disability a demon or something of the like.
Imagine if you were to point at somebody with a physical deformity and scream "Satan child!" or something equally as offensive.
We're still not quite as good at being acceptant of mental disorders but I hope that people like you can work with us to reduce the terrible stigma around these disorders that drive many people to suicide or a form of depressive state.

[Nighthawk61]

.You've said...." I have tried confronting her about this after she has calmed down from about 5 minutes after the event to 24 hours after the event and the results are the same: A few seconds (literally about 10 seconds maximum) of listening to me followed by another screaming fit of denying any of it happened at all.  This woman is NOT a liar. She does not lie. "

Please remember that you, being part of a co dependent relationship for so long, are also "sick" as a result of it, in denial as a result of it. (the constant fits). You cannot possibly know if your wife does or doesn't remember, or lies about remembering... and yet you are adamant saying she never lies. She may not lie about day to day things as a rule , but she may well lie about her fits to get her own way, to get you to feel sorry for her etc.

The thing is this. You are enabling this behavior, and in the end, a sick person will not thank you for doing so. You need help, if she refuses to get help, why have you not, why do you not get a therapist's opinion for yourself?

The best way to teach another, is by example.

Hope you come back,

[oicu812abc]

I am also beginning to suspect that she may be lying about not remembering her outbursts.  If anyone other than me stands up to her outburst she stops in mid-tirade and never blows up in front of them again. This happened with her own mother, my parents and two of her closest friends. If anyone supports her tirades she goes out of her way to instigate additional outbursts.  If I confront her tirade during the incident she shrieks more and more outrageous accusations and eventually just shrieks. Just Shrieking. No words, just shrieking.   She does not do this when we are at home alone unless I try to discuss her outbursts. Needless to say we dont go out much.

[Nighthawk61]

If you do not demand that she go to a therapist, and tell her she will lose you if she doesn't , you will continue to enable her to this sick behavior. I lived with a father like this, and it was unbearable, do you have kids in this relationship that have had to endure your wife's condition?

[AnxiousNoMore]

I can't diagnose from here, but one possibility is ADHD. I have known and lived with a few, one of whom is clinically diagnosed and the other is his parent - odds are 30% that one parent has passed it on. These people react first before thinking clearly so make bad spot decisions. If she has some animosity toward you, then her brain justifies her decision every time she lashes out.
Very classic from my experience and talking to another person in my book club who said she is also ADHD. She said until she got treatment her whole life was spent not knowing what she was doing. I could go on forever with anecdotes, but you can Google the symptoms and guess - only a medical professional can diagnose though.

Good luck - my spouse would go into a screaming fit if I ever brought it up, so I had to make the decision whether it was worth living with a person suffering disability.At least getting diagnosis about her nasty son helped dealing with him - I ignore everything and don't talk to him anymore because I realize there is a permanent wall thicker than any one that any politician wants to build.

[oicu812abc]

Thanks for the response. Will look into it. I'm really at the end of my patience.

[AnxiousNoMore]

Assuming it is ADHD, impatience won't do you any good because it isn't curable, although there are meds which do something because the son is on them sometimes.I don't follow that end of it, because my spouse would never accept my suggestion to get checked and the nasty son has grown up and moved out and is able to control his outbreaks toward me as long as his girlfriend is present and we keep it really simple and I don't disagree with  him or correct his occasional illogical conclusions about something I say - to anyone else he seems like a calm, laid back, overly happy person who bores me to death with his renditions of comedy movies he has seen including going into hysterics when he quotes the jokes - not sure if that has anything to do with ADHD. .

I should have mentioned that 30% of ADHD people inherit it from a parent so the marker manifested in both our cases. You could try the ADHD forum too. I am taking up this depression forum with a different issue so won't comment further here.

[AnxiousNoMore]

Things get worse with age too, so it takes a lot of effort from the person who is causing the problem to correct it. Any correction requires they recognize the problem, and are able to deal with it which isn't always the case with humans because we are complex.

I heard an interesting talk called "The Hardening of the Heart" years ago saying that as we age it is harder to be a nice person because the tendency is to get into undesirable habits and patterns.

[oicu812abc]

The wife is now on prozac for hormonal menopause reasons and this has helped a lot. The prozac has given her a window of time to communicate with her without the outbursts- about ten or fifteen seconds; that allows me to get my point across. She is now understanding the trials we've been going through and will see a psychiatrist once we are financially able.  I will see to it that this is soon.  I want the psychiatrist to 1. diagnose the problem.  2. explain to me how an adult can scream these things at someone and not mean it.  3. explain how someone can forget screaming things at someone and then repeat the behavior verbatim about 2-3 months later....word for word.  Insufficient explanation = divorce.  I've had it.

[clement4now]

oicu812abc, has your wife ever considered having a mental health screening or evaluation performed by a mental health specialist (psychologist or psychiatrist)? Do you think that she would ever speak to her primary care doctor about this problem? The reason why I mention this, is because sometimes when family members/close friends notice extreme and recurring character flaws in someone, there could be the possibility of mental illness playing a part in their behavior. Also, she may be very aware of her own behavior, but unable to understand how to cope with her anger and anxiety. Her first step toward help with this should be speaking to her doctor, so that she can get a professional opinion and a referral for the right specialist (if needed).
Another thought you might consider for yourself is personal counseling, one-on-one between you and a counselor or therapist, to try and figure out how to deal with approaching your wife about this problem. Not only is this a major problem for you and your marriage, but she must be miserable too.

[RockRose]

Does your wife have any long term friends?  Nice friends,  who you think are normal?

I COMPLETELY disagree with the other poster who said that this is ADHD.  This is something bordering on bipolar disorder.  It's very surprising that you've put up with it for 30  years and not demanded a diagnosis or a change in behavior or a divorce.  

[Nighthawk61]

ABSOLUTELY VIDEO TAPE A PERSON OUT OF CONTROL, BE IT PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEMS, ADDICTION OR ANYTHING ELSE A PERSON COULD BE IN DENIAL ABOUT. KEEP A RECORD, AS ONE WOULD OF THE BRUISES THEY WOULD RECEIVE BY AN ABUSIVE PARTNER. denial is deadly...

[Nighthawk61]

as a drug addict and alcoholic, i wish i had of had the opportunity to witness y black outs, cuz when in a black out there is no memory... it would have helped me significantly come out of my denial.

[Nighthawk61]

if you do show a video, try to do so with objectivity and love, it will be received far better than if revealed as "i told you so" or in anger.  A person that does black out for whatever reason is a sick person not a bad person.

[AnxiousNoMore]

Nighthawk61
She doesn't black out, but it is sort of the same thing so your point is valid.

Even if I had video I would proceed with caution because it would be better if someone she respects (doctor, mother, ?) shows it to her, otherwise it will likely set off another tirade and maybe denial afterward - otherwise she might refuse to look at it and get angry which is what would happen if I tried that. Again, I am making your point to proceed with caution.