I think I know but I am confused

[ShelbyH09]

Please do not be rude I just need a little piece of mind. My lmp was December 1st and it lasted about 4 days. On December 9th, 10th and 13th I had unprotected sex with my boyfriend and he fully ejaculated inside me each time. I have a app that lets me know when I most likely ovulated and it said I most likely ovulated on December 14th. I had sex with another man on December 16th and he pulled out (I saw him ejaculate somewhere else, I had no smells on my area) and he says he knows for sure he did not ejacualte inside of me. I am now 18 weeks and 1 days pregnant and my estimated due date is September 7th. I am pretty much 98% percent sure it is my boyfriends baby because he is the only one that fully ejaculated inside me but I just want to know the odds of if being the other mans baby. Please help :(

[Emily_MHManager]

Hi -

AnnieBrooke has stated several times that there is no way to give an actual probability and why, and has answered all of your questions thoroughly and thoughtfully, with action steps you can take next if you decide you want to.

As there is really nowhere left for this conversation to go, we are closing this thread. If you decide to take a paternity test, either now or later, and want to update, let me know by using the Contact Us link at the bottom of every page or by sending me a private message (click on my name and then send me a message from the link on my profile), and we can enable the thread.

We don't mean to sound harsh. We are sure this is causing all kinds of anxiety, and hope you find the peace you seek.


*** Thread closed ***

[AnnieBrooke]

I think you don't know with total certainty when ovulation was; all you know is when an app said ovulation was. Apps are based on averages and nothing else. Your seventh-week ultrasound that saw and measured the actual baby is better evidence. It suggests you conceived on the 15th. That is good news; it is not the 14th but it is not the 16th either. Unfortunately, it is uncomfortably close to the 16th, and when there are so few hours between what the ultrasound suggests is your conception date and what would be a possibility that the wrong guy is dad, you really cannot be sure. "It was only one time" means nothing when a guy ejaculates millions of sperm at once. "It was after ovulation" is not confirmed, it is just an assertion you have been making based on your app, which is based on average women's average cycles.

If I were in your shoes, what I would do? I'd have a come-to-Jesus meeting with my partner. Because he is too good a man not to know the true nature of our relationship and what is going on. He deserves to know what happened and what might happen as a result. He deserves to make up his own mind about how he feels about it rather than go along in ignorance and not even have the chance to make up his mind. (You say "I don't want to break his trust," but you had sex with someone else and are hiding it. Isn't that pretty much a textbook definition of having already broken his trust?) Do you think he wouldn't believe you if you said it was never going to happen again ever, and you are simply so sorry you did it that it can hardly be exaggerated? (If you feel that way, I mean?)

Failing the honest approach, if I just really really really really couldn't stand the idea of what might happen if I had to fess up, I guess my second choice would be to pony up the big bucks and do a pre-natal DNA test with Ravgen, testing Mr. Wrong's swab or blood sample and doing a 'discreet' test on the boyfriend. (Talk to Ravgen about how that is done.) I would see the high price as worth it for my peace of mind, and would be so glad to have tested both guys so I was sure. Then if the wrong guy was the dad, it would be time to confess to the boyfriend, and the chips would fall where they may. But if the right guy was the dad, I could sail on into life. Promising myself, of course, that in exchange for being able to never tell the guy what had happened, I would make him the happiest dad in the world forever, and never give him one moment's doubt about me and my love from now on out.

[ShelbyH09]

From what I have research “Pre ***” has NO sperm in it only time it has sperm is from a previous ejaculation that day and he did not urinate between ejaculations. I know for a fact and he knows for a fact that he 1. Did no ejacualte at all that day or the day before 2. During our intercourse he stopped long before ejaculation and finished himself off in the bathroom. I did not smell or see ANY evidence of semen on or around my area and I know I ovulated on the 14th or the 15th because I had ovulation symptoms (thick discharge, naseau, headache). How in the world could this one incounter with NO ejacualtion in me out rule my boyfriends sperm that was already inside me from MULTIPLE incounters and would have already been there to meet the egg longgg before I got to the other man?

[ShelbyH09]

AND me and my boyfriend were actively trying to have a baby

[ShelbyH09]

People make mistakes and it was literally one time and I will NEVER in my entire life do it again

[AnnieBrooke]

I am not saying your boyfriend doesn't have the best chance.  The only thing I am saying is that it is not guaranteed. The human body is surprising and unexpected things sometimes happen.

It is true that Cowper's Gland fluids by themselves do not carry sperm, as I already noted above. And if there is sperm in the urethra from a prior ejaculation, the fluids can carry  them into the woman's body. The only part you got wrong just now was your assertion that  only time it would contain sperm is if the man had had a previous ejaculation "that day." Sperm can live longer than that if the environment is at body temperature and air does not get to the sperm. (As you have probably read, it can be viable 4-6 days in the woman's reproductive tract. It would surprise me if it lived that long in a man's ductwork but it would not surprise me to find it lived longer than a day in some of the bends of the tubes.)

You have said you know "for a fact" this or that about the guy's prior ejaculations. Were you with him all the time before he had the sex with you for the previous three or four days and monitoring him and awake at night when he might have had a sexy dream to be sure he did not have an ejaculation? Do you know for sure that he did not masturbate in that time period? Perhaps he is totally accurate in asserting to you that he did not. Maybe he is mistaken, or has forgotten, or was too embarrassed to discuss it accurately. Pretty much, your certainty is hinging on how accurate he was in telling you that there was no possibility of viable sperm in his pre-ejaculatory fluid, (and of course on ovulation being no later than the 15th).

I think the biggest argument in your boyfriend's favor is that the early ultrasound suggested conception on the 15th, and you didn't have sex with the other guy until the 16th. But that is a slim margin for certainty, so I do think a DNA test matters, not only for purposes of legal determination of paternity now, but because with the popularity of DNA swabs that people take for fun, there is a chance your child will do one later. The odds are low she would get a surprise, but the price would be quite high if she did learn in that way that her ancestry was not what she supposed. I just read a letter from an (adult) poster who found out after her mother died that her dad was not who she thought he was, and she describes that she was devastated to realize her mom hid the truth from her for her whole life.

As I have said every time you have asked, your boyfriend has the best odds of being the dad. I just cannot tell you that that the other guy has no chance. It's too important to miss on this question, you absolutely have to get it right. This means a DNA test. If it shows your boyfriend is the dad, that puts the question to rest forever. And as I said before, you can just act (with your boyfriend) like the test is a bureaucratic necessity, or a favor from you to him so he can be sure.

[ShelbyH09]

But how often does that actually happen? Could the ultrasound measurements be off? Could I have really ovulated the 14th-15th and implantation happened on the 15th which starts the pregnancy? Could me having signs of ovulation (bloating, headache, tiredness) all day on the 15th and night of the 14th confirm even more that ovulation was either that day or the day before? And yes I do know all of that information about the other guy, believe me. So my boyfriends sperm would have been still vailable in my reproductive tract from the 13th? Isn’t it better to have sex the days before ovulation rather than the day of or after? We had sex 3 days leading up to ovulation and 2 days after... I feel like I am just overthinking this whole thing. I have been off birthcontrol for years and NEVER got pregnant from the pull out method the ONE time we actually did not pull out, I am now pregnant. I think that says alot too.

[AnnieBrooke]

I think your boyfriend has a much better chance to be the dad. The baby being a girl is also supportive of that theory.

[ShelbyH09]

Hey I’m back again. I just wanted to add I realized I had my LMP period wrong it was actually November 30th not December 1st. Also I had sex with my boyfriend December 9th, 10th, 13th and 17th (with full ejaculations) and sex with the other man only on the 16th with pull out and it was the one and only encounter we had. I got ultrasounds of my baby and her lips/ profile looks JUST like my boyfriend or is it all in my head? I really don’t want to do a DNA test because I don’t want to break his trust if it’s just me  being paranoid. In terms of proability I know that my boyfriend holds a much more chance of being the father but percentage wise would it be 50/50 or more 80/20? I have no contact with the other male because once I told him I was pregnant he blocked me immediately.

[AnnieBrooke]

There is no way to assign a number, and it would not reassure you anyway, because even if it was 60/40 there is still a "40" in there, or if it was 70/30, the 30 is going to look pretty big to you. Your problem is that you can't totally rule out the other guy. Even if the odds of bad news were only 10%, what if you are in the 10%?

I think you should consider telling your boyfriend in a ho-hum way that for legal assignment of paternity you assume you guys will have to do a DNA test, and just treat it as a matter-of-fact thing. Then if the baby does not come up as his, you can deal with the issue only when you know for sure.

[ShelbyH09]

If you were in my shoes, what would you do? Would you be over thinking like I am? Or is it just guilt bothering me? Because I have read on several post on here that women were in even worse senerios than me and it turned out to be the guy that had no form of protection with. Should I just relax and stop over thinking? I mean it was only 1 time and AFTER ovulation

[AnnieBrooke]

You should also understand, though, that you have a moral obligation to both men and to your baby to be sure. Unless the baby is the absolute image of your boyfriend and anyone could tell paternity by looking, it would be wrong of you to ask someone to support a baby if you are not sure.

[ShelbyH09]

But how often does if happen in a scenario like this that the person that pulls out actually is the father vs. a full ejaculation?

[AnnieBrooke]

Pulling out is not an effective method of birth control. You have other reasons to think the baby is from your boyfriend, I would not put the guy pulling out high on the list.

[ShelbyH09]

BUT how often does if happen in a scenario like this that the person that pulls out actually is the father vs. a FULL EJACULATION?

[AnnieBrooke]

Shelby, I would bet there is no scientific research on "how often," such that someone could say "7.8%" or something. They would have to have a test group who pulled out versus a test group who did not, and then measure how many pregnancies in each group, after controlling with other factors that affect fertility.

The reason I say that you cannot know for sure is that we get letters on MedHelp all the time from women who got pregnant by someone who pulled out. And they know that this is true because they never had sex with anyone who ejaculated within their body. In short, it can happen.

But this does not mean it happened to you. The problem is, you can't rule it out either. It only takes one sperm to meet the egg and begin the embryo.

The preponderance of the sex that you had was with someone who made it a point to ejaculate within your reproductive tract. This means that guy has the strongest chance.

[ShelbyH09]

Last question, with my boyfriend ejaculating inside me 2-3 days before my expected ovulation date that the doctor gave me, his sperm is already inside of me. Doesn’t that give me more of a chance than the guy I had sex with after my expected ovulation AND he pulled out for sure? And yes the baby is a girl I found out today

[AnnieBrooke]

It sounds like a good plan. Your boyfriend's odds are certainly greater. If you simply cannot tell by looking when the baby is born (hint: get some of your boyfriend's baby pictures, and compare a photograph of your baby to a photo of your boyfriend at the same age -- don't hold a photo up to the baby but do two photos side by side) anyway if you simply can't be sure, then do a DNA test with the other guy.

[AnnieBrooke]

You asked "But if you had to guess just based off of what I have told you... do you think it is more than likely my boyfriends baby?" Here is what I said above already: "I think your boyfriend has a much better chance to be the dad. He had you covered in the right time frame. I think the other guy has a much worse chance to be the dad. He would have had to have sperm in his urethra when he got the erection with you, and your conception sounds (sounds, not is guaranteed) like it was a day earlier. But you can see, these are hairline margins, and the human body is full of surprises all the time." I might bet a hundred dollars that your boyfriend is the dad, but I wouldn't bet the farm.

[AnnieBrooke]

Not because it is unlikely, but because the human body is full of surprises.

[ShelbyH09]

I am going to trust my gut, the doctors calculations and the fact that my cycle is like clock work every 26-27 days and say that I did ovulate on the 14th and my boyfriend is in fact the father. The other guy keeps reassuring me that I have not to worry about him being the dad because he knows he did not come inside of me at all

[AnnieBrooke]

Regarding a DNA test after the baby comes, if you are in the USA you will need one for legally saying the guy is the dad.

[ShelbyH09]

Without the DNA test, just based off of what I have told you ONLY. Do you feel a DNA is really really nessasary... honestly?
Or by my boyfriend actually ejaculating in me that gives him way more of a chance than the other guy

[AnnieBrooke]

I think any man who is not married has every right to ask for a DNA test when a baby is born. Legally, a married man is responsible for any child his wife has, but a single man is not, and the courts usually do expect to see a DNA test if child support is being requested.

[AnnieBrooke]

I've come across people with a one-day margin for error before and have always told them that the human body is not a machine and not a clock, lots of things that can happen that are unpredictable. When a woman has sex with two partners in the same menstrual month, it can be anyone's guess which sperm made it to the egg.

[ShelbyH09]

But if you had to guess just based off of what I have told you... do you think it is more than likely my boyfriends baby? Honestly.... no medical terms just real life answer

[AnnieBrooke]

Yes, more likely your boyfriend's baby.

[AnnieBrooke]

Hi, not enough information to give you an answer. From what info you give here, it could be a 50/50 chance, since your due date gives December 15th as your ovulation date.

Can you mention how you got your due date, and when?

[ShelbyH09]

I had a ultrasound on January 22nd where the doctor said I was 7 weeks and 3 days which lined up perfectly with my LMP. The second guy did not ejacualte in me AT ALL he and I both know that for a fact so doesn’t that make it less likely to be his baby?

[AnnieBrooke]

Less likely but not ruled out.

When a guy ejaculates, out come 100 million sperm (in one ejaculation). Some stay in his urethra. It's a supportive environment, not oxygenated and warm enough but not too warm. The guy then gets another erection. The Cowper's Gland sends fluid down the urethra to prepare for penetration. It's commonly called "pre-c u m" but we may as well call it pre-ejaculatory fluid because the software blocks the c-word.

With a hundred million sperm that came through and some still hanging out in the urethra, many can take a ride in the pre-ejaculatory fluid into the woman's body. He doesn't need to come. That's why "pulling out" is often a dismal failure if someone tries to use it for birth control. We hear on this site all the time from women who got pregnant using this so-called "method" -- it's not a birth-control method, it's more of a justification the guy uses so he doesn't have to wear a condom.

So, as you can see, it's not all about when he ejaculated with the woman, it's about when he ejaculated the last time before he had sex with the woman.  Would the guy even remember reliably if he had ejaculated relatively recently before sex with you?  Because your ultrasound points to the 15th as when you conceived, and there really is no way to hang your hat on the rationale "then it must not be the 16th." This use of an ultrasound is not precise enough to rule out the 16th if it points to the 15th.

Your odds are better that the guy from the 13th is the dad. This would be especially true if the baby is a girl. You just can't rule out the other guy.

[ShelbyH09]

He had no ejaculated for months before we even had sex and it was only 1 occasion when we actually had sex on the 16th

[AnnieBrooke]

He had not ejaculated for months, or had not had sex for months? It's pretty rare to find a male who goes for months at a time without an ejaculation.

[ShelbyH09]

It was no time around the time we had sex I know that for sure. Could he seriously really be the father if me and my boyfriend had sex multiple days leading up to ovulation and he ejacualated in me each time. And this one time I have sex with someone after ovulation, he pulls out completely and I know for sure I ovulated on the 15th and not the 16th. I just find that extremely unlikely and I don’t want to ruin my relationship with my boyfriend if the chances of the other guy being the father are so slim. Should i wait to see who the child looks like? 3D ultrasounds could help?

[AnnieBrooke]

Shelby, if the second guy had a wet dream the night before, or had masturbated relatively recently compared to when he had sex with you, pulling out is not going to help much, it is literally 100 million sperm in one ejaculation, and it only takes 1.

Of course, the first guy has the same count, so having lots of sex with him puts even more millions of sperm from him in your reproductive tract at the proper time for ovulation. (Sperm lasts 4-6 days in your body.) Unfortunately, you can't know exactly enough when you ovulated. The conception calculator says the conception date for someone with your due date is the 15th. If we had a way to know that it was the 14th or the 15th for sure, you would have your proof that the dad is the first guy. But eggs last 24-36 hours before they fade, and ultrasounds are not pinpoint enough to rule the second guy out as totally out of the question.

I think your boyfriend has a much better chance to be the dad. He had you covered in the right time frame. I think the other guy has a much worse chance to be the dad. He would have had to have sperm in his urethra when he got the erection with you, and your conception sounds (sounds, not is guaranteed) like it was a day earlier. But these are hairline margins, to slim for certainty.

I'll post a list I have posted before of ways to try to figure out who is the dad. It's in the form of, if you can't do #1, move on to #2, and if you can't do #2, move on to #3.

1. Get an ultrasound in your 6th or 7th week. Don't tell the doctor when your period was, have them figure out the due date from the measurements of the baby only. Count back 266 days from the due date (or use a conception calculator online) and that is your estimated conception date.

2. Call Ravgen or the DDC and do a prenatal paternity test for the big bucks. Don't use an Internet cheapie test, they just waste your money and time. Test with BOTH GUYS. One man's positive will back up the other man's negative and vice versa.

3. After the baby comes, get a DNA test for about a tenth of the cost as it would take to do a prenatal test. Use a lab approved by the family courts in your area of jurisdiction for determining paternity legally. Again, test with both guys.

Sorry, I understand you want the answer to be that there is no way in the world it could be from the other guy. But it's not possible to say absolutely until you have the DNA test results in your hand.

Regarding prenatal ultrasounds, if I had to guess who my son's dad was by his prenatal ultrasound pictures, the dad was the Geico Caveman. If you would have to spend $400 out of pocket for such photos, you might be better off putting it towards the cost of a test with Ravgen. A DNA test from a reputable lab is a lot better evidence than looking at an undeveloped baby in a photograph.

[ShelbyH09]

I think it is my boyfriends baby. Going into DNA test and all that and having the results come back exactly how I knew they would will only make things worse. I personally highly doubt that it is the other mans baby especially since my boyfrinds sperm from multiple different sexual incounters would have been already in my body waiting to fertilize the egg. Wouldn’t that rule the other man out even more?

And you think it sounds like I ovulated on the 14th rather than the 15th?

If you have came across a senario like this before or similar, who ended up being the father for them? The guy that pulled our or the guy that fully ejaculated in the woman?

[AnnieBrooke]

In fact, I think you ovulated on the 15th, because the conception calculator says the conception date for someone with your due date is the 15th. You originally said "I have a app that lets me know when I most likely ovulated and it said I most likely ovulated on December 14th," but later you said "I know for sure I ovulated on the 15th." Unless a doctor watched the egg pop out of the ovary on an ultrasound when it happened, it is not possible to know when a woman ovulates "for sure." You might well be totally correct in your assumptions. The problem is, the margin for error is so slim that if you had ovulated just 24 hours after it seems like you might have ovulated from the ultrasound, you could not be 100% sure.

In your shoes, I would not worry about it, I would go along on the assumption the baby is from your boyfriend, but then test when the baby comes.

[ShelbyH09]

In your experience with these forums have you come across anyone else with my situation? What were their results?

If the baby looks just like my boyfriend when born, will DNA be nessasary? My boyfriend is mixed and the other guy is very dark skin so I feel like that can help alot to with determining who baby looks like

[AnnieBrooke]

DNA may be necessary if you want child support. I assume the judge will look for paperwork that shows a DNA test, and your boyfriend might be more comfortable with a judge wanting that also.