Aa
ITS possible to use and not become addicted
It seems that a lot of people are under the impression that by using a narcotic pain pill,or a benzodiazepam.The ultimate and only conclusion is to become addicted/dependant.I beg to differ,the abuse of these drugs is the foundation for addiction,not the as RX route,another observation i notice is an across the board paranoia especially from people that where once addicted.
I'm guessing you have never EVER used Heroin intravenously or any other extremely potent Narcotic for any real length of time, otherwise you could NOT possibly make the claim that by doing so does NOT result in ADDICTION or DEPENDENCE! Maybe I'm reading your question incorrectly, but from someone that has used every Narcotic, Benzo, Tranquilizer, Amphetamine, Psychedelic, Form of THC, and even some substances that have not yet been specifically categorized, I can assure you that based on my use of Heroin, and of those whom I know to have used Heroin, after only a few days of regular uninterrupted use, YOU WILL BECOME ADDICTED OR DEPENDENT! It is NOT Simply a psychological dependence, it is a pure and unadulterated Physical Dependence! After only a few days of use, YOU WILL FIND THAT YOUR BODY PHYSICALLY NEEDS THE DRUG!
I'm one of those people who were snookered by Ultram. After Breaking 11 ribs, A scapula (left) , and surgical reconstruction of the right thumb ( titanium bone and screws) as the result of my one true love (a BMW R1100S) and I parting company (at 90+ MPH,and accelerating) -I was prescribed Ultram after refusing "narcotic" (opioid) pain meds. I'm NOT one of the magical people johnkelly was arguing about- I AM an addict, and am unwilling to return there. Anyway, After leaving the hospital, and the demerol, dilaudid, and oxys behind, I had this great sense of (false) security gulping down half a dozen to a dozen "safe" ultrams a day. It was great- no pain, and no side effects. Eight weeks later, I stopped without warning. I ran out on a Thursday, and of course cruised ok for 24 hours or so, and started feeling a little strange on Friday night. By Sunday I was in full-blown Acute WD- just like kicking methadone- except I had no idea why- I really thought I had lost my mind or something. It was horrible. I was able to contact my physician on Monday and they freaked out that I had stopped cold-turkey. "Oh, yesss, well, that's not a good idea...we would prefer you didn't stop all at once unsupervised...blah blah...Would you like a new prescription?" I replied with an emphatic "NO!" punctuated with some colorful adjectives an verbs, and stuck out the kick, now that I knew what was going on. All's well that ends well. BEWARE THE ULTRAM ! PS- Some posters (who will remain nameless) might think about educating themselves re addiction before spewing their uninformed gobbledygook on line where it could harm someone.
If you look at the countless information about narcotic drugs inparticular hydrocodone and oxycodone were never meant to be taken for long term pain. Why? Because they lose their effectiveness pretty quickly and the potential for addiction/dependance is very high. I know of many people that have taken those types of pain meds after surgery..and stay on them and all of them claim to still be in the same amount of pain they were in. Many other studies also warn of whats called opiate pain syndrom in which the very pain (opiates) med people take ends up mimicking the pain that they had originally started taking them for. As for does everyone become addicted?? Of course not.But the evidence of the millions of people addicted/dependant to pain meds is indisputable .However this happens to be an addiction forum!
Awww, your poor Mom. :0( Is sdhe feeling any better? Any med, but especially something like a narcotic tends to be less tolerated by older folks. A lot of times their systems just do not metabolize medications like they once did...and like the normal average person would...therefore they end up with some issues....and even a super low dose of a med can REALLY knock them silly.
I am a HUGE believer in the fact that everyone is different. Some people can walk away after YEARS of a bad habit...others struggle after weeks. I personally feel a lot of it has to do with our chemical make-ups. Not to mention mind strength. 'Mind over matter"...man I tell ya...some people can do anything.
I am a HUGE believer in the fact that everyone is different. Some people can walk away after YEARS of a bad habit...others struggle after weeks. I personally feel a lot of it has to do with our chemical make-ups. Not to mention mind strength. 'Mind over matter"...man I tell ya...some people can do anything.
my mother who is 76 yrs old was prescribed percocet. She took them for two weeks and after being warned by me that those can be addicting, she imediately stopped taking them and couldnt sleep for 3 or 4 nights. She has never drank, smoked or taken any type of drugs. She said they made her sleep so good! Bless her heart, but she knows what addiction can do she has seen me battle this demon over thirty years. and no i don't think it was power of suggestion. these pills just release seretonin and they make us happy, that is why we get addicted to them and not to something like motrin.
Geneticists haven't worked out the details of addiction (or depression), but they will ... I know many people who are puzzled that people want to change their perceptions, and quite a few few can take addictive drugs whenever they feel like.
What was the percentage -- 70 -- of Vietnam vets who just stopped when they got out?
It probably boils down to coping with stress and the uncerlying genetics, combined with parenting.
What was the percentage -- 70 -- of Vietnam vets who just stopped when they got out?
It probably boils down to coping with stress and the uncerlying genetics, combined with parenting.
My mother hallucinated on 50mg benadryl at the ER once. EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. I agree pain pills shouldn't be taken for long periods of time, but 5-7 days is usually ok if TAKEN AS DIRECTED
I was told by a doctor in a well known, and respected pain clinic in Atlanta that if I was in extreme pain and took the dilaudid I would not get high or addicted.......Well, they were right about ONE thing...It never made me high. Today is day 19,,,,I am STILL going thru WD...just as bad as any street junkie. I had the WD Flu. I shook for 16 days inside and out, I am having confusion and loss of memory.......I KNOW taking pain pills will cause addiction when taken at high amounts over a long periond even if supervised by a good doctor. Jerri
** I am sorry but there is nothing safe about a drug whose side effects may be driving, eating or carrying on a conversation while asleep**
OMG!!! Truer words have never been spoken! :0)
OMG!!! Truer words have never been spoken! :0)
A certain member of my family is on vicodin right now due to surgery...she has taken them before and rarely even finishes the bottle she is given..the rest get flushed..so I believe everyone is different with the addiction issues. And even if some people disagree, I do not feel guilty giving them to her, even if I have been a lifelong addict. She obviously does not take after me on that and I thank God for that. I'm glad they make something to ease her pain...
yes- it is possible to use and not be addicted
yes- it is possible to not be physically addicted but to be mentally addicted and vice versa
yes- it is possible for an individual to quit and have very little or no withdrawal symptoms
everyones brain chemistry and physical chemistry is different- i have known a man who was on oxys for 10 months- decided to quit- quit- and never had a problem- granted this is a rare exception- but it is possible
for the record- i am an addict- i had little problem quitting (no physical or mental withdrawals- just the monkey on my back telling to me to take) UNTIL i hit a large enough dose to cause physical and mental withdrawals
yes- it is possible to not be physically addicted but to be mentally addicted and vice versa
yes- it is possible for an individual to quit and have very little or no withdrawal symptoms
everyones brain chemistry and physical chemistry is different- i have known a man who was on oxys for 10 months- decided to quit- quit- and never had a problem- granted this is a rare exception- but it is possible
for the record- i am an addict- i had little problem quitting (no physical or mental withdrawals- just the monkey on my back telling to me to take) UNTIL i hit a large enough dose to cause physical and mental withdrawals
I know what you mean. I get so mad and cringe everytime I hear the Ambien CR commercial and they say, "Non-Narcotic" and safe to take as long as your doctor decides. That is a load of Shipoopoo. I am sorry but there is nothing safe about a drug whose side effects may be driving, eating or carrying on a conversation while asleep. They even tell you that.
I can complain about this drug because I have been there, done that, and almost died because of it.
I can complain about this drug because I have been there, done that, and almost died because of it.
ArmyMedic explained it well.....there are different definitions for "Tolerance" , "Dependency" and "Addiction".
"Tolerance" is where one requires a higher and higher dosage to achieve the same level of effectiveness...be it pain or anxiety relief, etc. This is b/c of "neuroadaptation"...where the receptors (ie opiate receptors) become desensitized, decreasing the effectiveness of the dose.
"Dependence" is the the aspect that the body grows to "need" said substance, and without it, a person will experience withdrawals. This is not to say that every person on one of these types of meds WILL experience withdrawals...but certainly, long term usage at a fairly average-high dose (not necessarily one per day) is generally a recipe for w/d's.
"Addiction" is defined as a "compulsive need" for the drug. Addiction is not only defined by the body's "need" for a substance...but also all of the behaviors associated with it.....physical and mental cravings, all consuming thoughts, and often being addicted to the "process" itself, for example...people who inject or snort are often obsessed with the accesories, how they process the drug....where they store it....where they DO it...frequent checking to see how much is left, and constant planning of how/when/where to get more. These are just a few examples of the "behaviors" that I was speaking of. Certainly not every addict fits the bill....and if some of the "typical" behaviors are not present doesn't necessarily mean the person is not addicted. Strictly examples.
Another definition that is often used interchangably is "Drug Abuse". Abuse is the deliberate use of a drug inappropriately (ie taking doses WAY higher than recommended, or via the wrong route....injecting an oral med) despite KNOWING it can be harmful.
Basically...they are all so similar, and sometimes it IS difficult to distinguish between what's what.
A LOT of times tolerance and dependence will lead to addiction, but not all of the time. There are fine lines between these things...and the boundaries are blurred for a lot of people. To clarify....withdrawals often REINFORCE addiction, b/c no matter how badly a person wants to kick their addiction....the w/d's are hard to overcome. Similarly....w/d's can also LEAD to addiction in someone who may have only been "dependent". Because opiates and benzos, etc so commonly come with pretty nasty w/d's.....so they keep taking them to avoid the w/d's...and of course the tolerance issue brings them to taking more and more.....terrible cycle.
Only a person knows if they are an "addict'...and if they are...whether it is important to them to REALLY focus on what the label means to them. It does make things difficult, however...to have all of these very similar terms when discussing these types of meds. IMO...a person seeking recovery is seeking recovery regardless of how they got there. The treatments will vary....which is something that should to be at least considered when starting down the road to a substance-free existence. The differences in treatments would be the presence or absence of psychological help..as well as the intensity of aftercare.....just to name a few.
Oh...and johnny.....recently there has been raised awareness in the medical community about Ultram. It is not "classifed" as a narcotic, however it IS addictive. There is actually some discussion about finally changing it to be classified as a controlled substance, which I sincerely hope they do. A LOT of people got bigtime snookered with Ultram...being told it was completely safe, non addicting...and when they decided to stop....wished the Earth would open and swallow them whole the pain of w/d's was so awful. Reading here made me realize just how bad some of those Ultram w/d's are too! Just terrible. It wasn't even lack of disclosure...it was flat out faulty info. I understand that the medical community really had this impression of the med...but in the present day...it should not be happening any longer...the info is out there.
It's ONE thing to perhaps take your chances with Percocet, or Vicodin, Morphine, etc...KNOWING it has that potential to lead to addiction/dependence/withdrawals...but to be given something and told "It's like a Tylenol". YOUCH! That makes me so sad.....I can remember when Ultrams began being prescribed much more frequently as an alternative to strong long-term narc use....what a joke looking back....I bet most of those people would have been better off trying to come off Percocet than that. Just awful! :0( Anyway...just an Ultram Fyi!
Great subject.....it's always nice to throw this kind of discussion into the mix once in a while.
Take care everyone!
"Tolerance" is where one requires a higher and higher dosage to achieve the same level of effectiveness...be it pain or anxiety relief, etc. This is b/c of "neuroadaptation"...where the receptors (ie opiate receptors) become desensitized, decreasing the effectiveness of the dose.
"Dependence" is the the aspect that the body grows to "need" said substance, and without it, a person will experience withdrawals. This is not to say that every person on one of these types of meds WILL experience withdrawals...but certainly, long term usage at a fairly average-high dose (not necessarily one per day) is generally a recipe for w/d's.
"Addiction" is defined as a "compulsive need" for the drug. Addiction is not only defined by the body's "need" for a substance...but also all of the behaviors associated with it.....physical and mental cravings, all consuming thoughts, and often being addicted to the "process" itself, for example...people who inject or snort are often obsessed with the accesories, how they process the drug....where they store it....where they DO it...frequent checking to see how much is left, and constant planning of how/when/where to get more. These are just a few examples of the "behaviors" that I was speaking of. Certainly not every addict fits the bill....and if some of the "typical" behaviors are not present doesn't necessarily mean the person is not addicted. Strictly examples.
Another definition that is often used interchangably is "Drug Abuse". Abuse is the deliberate use of a drug inappropriately (ie taking doses WAY higher than recommended, or via the wrong route....injecting an oral med) despite KNOWING it can be harmful.
Basically...they are all so similar, and sometimes it IS difficult to distinguish between what's what.
A LOT of times tolerance and dependence will lead to addiction, but not all of the time. There are fine lines between these things...and the boundaries are blurred for a lot of people. To clarify....withdrawals often REINFORCE addiction, b/c no matter how badly a person wants to kick their addiction....the w/d's are hard to overcome. Similarly....w/d's can also LEAD to addiction in someone who may have only been "dependent". Because opiates and benzos, etc so commonly come with pretty nasty w/d's.....so they keep taking them to avoid the w/d's...and of course the tolerance issue brings them to taking more and more.....terrible cycle.
Only a person knows if they are an "addict'...and if they are...whether it is important to them to REALLY focus on what the label means to them. It does make things difficult, however...to have all of these very similar terms when discussing these types of meds. IMO...a person seeking recovery is seeking recovery regardless of how they got there. The treatments will vary....which is something that should to be at least considered when starting down the road to a substance-free existence. The differences in treatments would be the presence or absence of psychological help..as well as the intensity of aftercare.....just to name a few.
Oh...and johnny.....recently there has been raised awareness in the medical community about Ultram. It is not "classifed" as a narcotic, however it IS addictive. There is actually some discussion about finally changing it to be classified as a controlled substance, which I sincerely hope they do. A LOT of people got bigtime snookered with Ultram...being told it was completely safe, non addicting...and when they decided to stop....wished the Earth would open and swallow them whole the pain of w/d's was so awful. Reading here made me realize just how bad some of those Ultram w/d's are too! Just terrible. It wasn't even lack of disclosure...it was flat out faulty info. I understand that the medical community really had this impression of the med...but in the present day...it should not be happening any longer...the info is out there.
It's ONE thing to perhaps take your chances with Percocet, or Vicodin, Morphine, etc...KNOWING it has that potential to lead to addiction/dependence/withdrawals...but to be given something and told "It's like a Tylenol". YOUCH! That makes me so sad.....I can remember when Ultrams began being prescribed much more frequently as an alternative to strong long-term narc use....what a joke looking back....I bet most of those people would have been better off trying to come off Percocet than that. Just awful! :0( Anyway...just an Ultram Fyi!
Great subject.....it's always nice to throw this kind of discussion into the mix once in a while.
Take care everyone!
maybe because the others don't give an "altered state" that we chase after?
just a guess...
just a guess...
I have a question, so tell me what you think (Remember, I am just an English teacher and I have no background in medicine at all). Broknbck made me start to think about something with his post:
{Well if you take pain killers long enough- they simply stop working and therefore you have to take more for them to work. Everyone will build up a tolerance who takes them for an extended time every day. There is no doubt about this. I think is when we start uping our doses (because they don't work) that we start really getting physically addicted.}
Why are we so apt to build up a tolerance to pain meds, anxiety meds, and other drugs to a point where we have to take more than recommended and at closer intervals of time, but things like blood pressure meds we don't? I don't understand the pharmacology of these drugs and I just find it strange that we build up a tolerance to one but we can take another for years and years and never need to change the amount or how often we take it.
What is your opinion on this or your expert answer because this lady doesn't know.
:)
{Well if you take pain killers long enough- they simply stop working and therefore you have to take more for them to work. Everyone will build up a tolerance who takes them for an extended time every day. There is no doubt about this. I think is when we start uping our doses (because they don't work) that we start really getting physically addicted.}
Why are we so apt to build up a tolerance to pain meds, anxiety meds, and other drugs to a point where we have to take more than recommended and at closer intervals of time, but things like blood pressure meds we don't? I don't understand the pharmacology of these drugs and I just find it strange that we build up a tolerance to one but we can take another for years and years and never need to change the amount or how often we take it.
What is your opinion on this or your expert answer because this lady doesn't know.
:)
1 Comments
The simple answer to your question (without getting into all the Pharmacological Rigamarow) is that Opioid Pain Relievers, besides sending messages to your pain receptors also have a euphoric effect and intensify our pleasure receptors. So, in the beginning, not only are the Pain Pills helping to ease our pain, they are providing us with an intense and very pleasurable side effect that we clearly do not get from our Blood Pressure Meds.
Sadly, it is NOT the pain relief effect we continue to chase, it is that wonderful euphoric feeling. So, as you are exactly correct in the fact that as we take them, our tolerance begins to build and our need for that Euphoric Feeling gets stronger and stronger, we take more and more of the dreaded little pills.
Given that our bodies tend to be resilient and tend to fight off any foreign materials we may introduce to it, even the Euphoric feeling is not 100% completely normal, so our bodies tend to fight the introduction of the medication, thus requiring more and more to chase the effects we are seeking. As our bodies fight the medication, it begins to accept it's introduction and become used to it. As such, without it, our bodies begin to "freak out" with the absence of the drug. Our pleasure receptors begin to crave that feeling and without it, our chemical makeup becomes extremely unbalanced and cries out for it.
It's actually kind of like the "Love to Hate" effect. We love the euphoria, but we hate the impurities we introduce into our bodies. Does that kind of make sense? I'm no doctor or pharmacist although the experience I have using these poisonous little killers, I should be a little of both!
Frankly, to an addict the claim being made that by simply taking Pain Meds does not cause addiction, or that one may take pain medication without the fear of becoming addicted is horribly skewed! I don't care who you are, what your DNA make up consists of, what your metabolism is constructed of, or if you have never been dependent upon narcotics is ridiculous! IF YOU TAKE ENOUGH FOR LONG ENOUGH EVERY BREATHING INDIVIDUAL WILL SUFFER SOME KIND OF ADVERSE DEPENDENTCY OR ADDICTIVE TRAITS INDUCED BY THAT OF INGESTING NARCOTIC/OPIOID PAIN RELIEVERS! PERIOD!
It is very possible for you to take them for 2 - 3 weeks and then only suffer the slightest discomfort as the result of stopping their use, whereas I could take them for 8-10 days and suffer the most intense form of physical withdrawals as a result of stopping their use... However, if we both take them for long enough, it is inevitable that both of us will begin to suffer horrible physical withdrawal effects and the ONLY way to get any relief is to quite simply begin to take more! Then, we would undoubtedly run the risk of experiencing the most horrific and intense physical, mental, emotional and psychological withdrawals lasting anywhere from 2 weeks to 2-3 months in the worse case scenario. I have been there, done that, back and forth, up and down, horizontally and vertically both above and below sea level and every other possible way known to man!
Believe me when I tell you... Each and every single time I have put myself through it, it got more difficult, and less appealing! My suggestion to anyone facing the prospect of having to take Narcotic Pain Relievers, is a very simple and direct - DON'T! Take Motrin, Allieve, Tylenol, Aspirin or any other NON-NARCOTIC PAIN RELIEVER! Chances are, you'll get much more relief with them than you would with the Narcotics, plus you may save yourself the dreaded knowledge that you are one of the chosen that like Opioids just a bit too much!
Sadly, it is NOT the pain relief effect we continue to chase, it is that wonderful euphoric feeling. So, as you are exactly correct in the fact that as we take them, our tolerance begins to build and our need for that Euphoric Feeling gets stronger and stronger, we take more and more of the dreaded little pills.
Given that our bodies tend to be resilient and tend to fight off any foreign materials we may introduce to it, even the Euphoric feeling is not 100% completely normal, so our bodies tend to fight the introduction of the medication, thus requiring more and more to chase the effects we are seeking. As our bodies fight the medication, it begins to accept it's introduction and become used to it. As such, without it, our bodies begin to "freak out" with the absence of the drug. Our pleasure receptors begin to crave that feeling and without it, our chemical makeup becomes extremely unbalanced and cries out for it.
It's actually kind of like the "Love to Hate" effect. We love the euphoria, but we hate the impurities we introduce into our bodies. Does that kind of make sense? I'm no doctor or pharmacist although the experience I have using these poisonous little killers, I should be a little of both!
Frankly, to an addict the claim being made that by simply taking Pain Meds does not cause addiction, or that one may take pain medication without the fear of becoming addicted is horribly skewed! I don't care who you are, what your DNA make up consists of, what your metabolism is constructed of, or if you have never been dependent upon narcotics is ridiculous! IF YOU TAKE ENOUGH FOR LONG ENOUGH EVERY BREATHING INDIVIDUAL WILL SUFFER SOME KIND OF ADVERSE DEPENDENTCY OR ADDICTIVE TRAITS INDUCED BY THAT OF INGESTING NARCOTIC/OPIOID PAIN RELIEVERS! PERIOD!
It is very possible for you to take them for 2 - 3 weeks and then only suffer the slightest discomfort as the result of stopping their use, whereas I could take them for 8-10 days and suffer the most intense form of physical withdrawals as a result of stopping their use... However, if we both take them for long enough, it is inevitable that both of us will begin to suffer horrible physical withdrawal effects and the ONLY way to get any relief is to quite simply begin to take more! Then, we would undoubtedly run the risk of experiencing the most horrific and intense physical, mental, emotional and psychological withdrawals lasting anywhere from 2 weeks to 2-3 months in the worse case scenario. I have been there, done that, back and forth, up and down, horizontally and vertically both above and below sea level and every other possible way known to man!
Believe me when I tell you... Each and every single time I have put myself through it, it got more difficult, and less appealing! My suggestion to anyone facing the prospect of having to take Narcotic Pain Relievers, is a very simple and direct - DON'T! Take Motrin, Allieve, Tylenol, Aspirin or any other NON-NARCOTIC PAIN RELIEVER! Chances are, you'll get much more relief with them than you would with the Narcotics, plus you may save yourself the dreaded knowledge that you are one of the chosen that like Opioids just a bit too much!
as well - many factors coming into play at once.
ok - i guess i coulda put all that in one post - lol.
:-)
ok - i guess i coulda put all that in one post - lol.
:-)
.. not to discount the genetic link, as well.
however, take a number of siblings, all using the same DOC, and some will become addicted, some will not. trust me - i've seen it, coming from a very big family.
there is an element that is still unknown.
however, take a number of siblings, all using the same DOC, and some will become addicted, some will not. trust me - i've seen it, coming from a very big family.
there is an element that is still unknown.
depends on on the DOC.
some research is very new. and narcotic pain relievers are VERY addictive.
all you have to do is turn on the news...
some research is very new. and narcotic pain relievers are VERY addictive.
all you have to do is turn on the news...
I think a majority of MY addiction is mental. I took painkillers for long periods of time before and when I was DONE, I was DONE.. I didn't get sick at all. My head told me that I wasn't going to get sick....now I'm done and I know I'm going to get very sick.. the mind plays some crazy tricks on us...and our bodies. thanks medic for that info above.
as the genetics go...I never knew of anyone in my family who was addicted to anything, until my mom told me the other day that my great aunt took vicodin for the last 20 years of her life and was definitely addicted...wowow.. I never knew.
as the genetics go...I never knew of anyone in my family who was addicted to anything, until my mom told me the other day that my great aunt took vicodin for the last 20 years of her life and was definitely addicted...wowow.. I never knew.
You are so right in your post. Yes, there is a huge genetic link to addictions (esp narcotics and alcohol). There is the same link with mental illness. Yes, there are mulltitudes of people in the world who use narcotic meds as prescribed without any problems of abuse. However, I do wonder if in those studies they actually look into how many of those people have those types of issues run in their families? I do believe that many people who use narcotics as prescribed and do become addicted...have some sort of history of that behavior in their family history. Look at how many of us..."don't tell" what we have been through...so many things are hidden and not discussed to save ourselves and our families from hurt, anguish and every other emotion that comes with addiction. I don't disagree with not discussing those types of things, because that is everyones own personal choice and decision to make...as to what is best for them and there loved ones. I do think, however, that knowing those things are important...I truly think that knowing my own family's history of abuse, esp my father's helped me save myself...sooner vs. later.
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