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Why is it?

May 13, 2008 - 253 comments

Why is it when you disagree with people about religion, its an "attack"?

Note--everyone is welcome to participate in this discussion.  I enjoy listening to everyone's viewpoints.  

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93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 13, 2008
Because there is only one way to do things, don't you know?

127124 tn?1326739035
by have 2 kids, May 13, 2008
Don't you know by now that if you don't agree with someone on MH it is an "attack"?  I think it's in the rules-
No logical discussions everything must be taken as a personal attack.

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 13, 2008
My way!  That's the only way!

However, your opinion was duly registered.  Thank you for participating.

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 13, 2008
I'm currently taking suggestions for Peekawho's Book Club.  

127124 tn?1326739035
by have 2 kids, May 13, 2008
I can be your number 1 stalker???

203342 tn?1328740807
by April2, May 13, 2008
Peekawho, if you're talking about me and that last journal, I DID feel attacked because the one poster said that I was being "sacreligious" and "full of self-importance". when that wasn't the way I felt at all. So yes, I did feel attacked.

118225 tn?1278658540
by ziggysgrl0724, May 13, 2008
if you are starting a book club, then obviously the first book for this lot would have to be bible....how else do you all expect to be saved from these wretched opnions? LOL

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 13, 2008
April, its the whole package.  You have every right to feel the way you want to and believe the things you prefer too, but when you go around quoting scripture to people, and saying that God wants us to do this and that, then you diminish and unwittingly belittle the beliefs of others.  

Saying "I'll pray for you to have your eyes opened" is belittling, too.  It implies that you have some knowledge or power that is superior to another, and you are praying that the other person comes to his or her senses.

Believe it or not, other people of differing beliefs may just be fine and not in need of prayers.  

203342 tn?1328740807
by April2, May 13, 2008
Well, Peekawho, even though you said this was welcome to all it's obvious that it's intended to bash and mock Christians so I'll be leaving. I'm disappointed but you know what? It's just so ironic that those who don't believe keep crying "tolerence" and yet they won't tolerate Christians. They keep saying how hatefull Christians are but I've met more hateful people who are supposed to be the ones who are "tolerent".
I wish you well. I have no ill thoughts towards you or anyone else. Nor do I think I'm better than anyone else but you can believe what you want.
Take care.
April

145992 tn?1341348674
by mami1323, May 13, 2008
I don't think peek was bashing Christians at all.  She's just saying not to shove scriptures down others throats.  If you are praying that someone's baby is born healthy or pray that they can move on after a miscarriage or a death, that's one thing, but praying that someone sees the error of their ways because they are in disagreement over a religious belief is another.

165308 tn?1323190145
by suzi-q, May 13, 2008
I am a Christian...a Roman Catholic to be exact.  I do not feel Peek is condemning Christianity at all.  I think she is just trying to say that everyone has a right to their opinion and religious beliefs.  I do not think she is attacking anyone.  Peek is being a little cynical....but if we cannot question ourselves and realize our positives and faults then who can?

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 13, 2008
What did I say that was mocking and bashing anyone?

165308 tn?1323190145
by suzi-q, May 13, 2008
I don't think you said anything wrong.

93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 13, 2008
Every utterance out of my mouth or yours is considered bashing unless it validates what someone else says. If we do not agree, even in the most polite of ways (which we all know does nothing but garner anger anyway) we are labeled as "attackers" and reported.

I am 100% agreement with those that can see the greater meaning behind this journal. I also agree with the quoting of scripture as a means to condemn someone's actions is not helpful.



165308 tn?1323190145
by suzi-q, May 13, 2008
Well, I am getting on my pulpit now and make my quote!

From the movie GREASE

Rizzo states, and I quote, "My, some people are so touchy."

127124 tn?1326739035
by have 2 kids, May 13, 2008
Where I live there is a group of people who seem to think they are better than everyone else.  They go to church every sunday.    Funny thing is guess what they are doing all week long.  
Having affairs, getting drunk,etc.
I don't get how some can be so quick to judge others.   I'm not very religious. I believe what I believe and don't try to push it on anyone else.   I think there is more to being a good christian than quoting scripture.   What has happened to living an honest life and treating others like you want to be treated?

501792 tn?1261114706
by Toomanyadvil, May 13, 2008
My thouhts on religion is to
take all beliefs into consideration...were probably all wrong anyway

:)

Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 13, 2008
joy had my remarks removed, then sent me a nice pm.  i dont feel bad for anything i said at all.  my "judgement" of people here is simply as i see them behave and what they say.  if you talk like an idiot, i will think you are.  if you are very knowledgable about a certain subject i will assume you to be intelligent and took your time to learn before handing out poor advice.  i dont know anyone from what i read, same as nobody knows im nice lol.  

however UNLIKE what a certain poster said, i do want to hear what others have to say.  if its stupid and rediculous then ihave something to chuckle about !!  man its too bad im eathing healthy i could use a bowl of ice cream.

145992 tn?1341348674
by mami1323, May 13, 2008
Oh perty...I laugh at so many posts it's not even funny.  I laugh but choose not to respond.  

203342 tn?1328740807
by April2, May 13, 2008
The reason I felt like my faith was being mocked here was because of the things said in a mocking, making fun of way, like:
"Because there is only one way to do things, don't you know?" by Andij78
"My way!  That's the only way!" by Peekawho
"if you are starting a book club, then obviously the first book for this lot would have to be bible....how else do you all expect to be saved from these wretched opnions? LOL" by ziggysgrl074
- that one in particular I thought was very offensive since she is mocking the Bible and needing to be "saved from these wretched opinions" The laugh out loud sign especially tells me she's making fun of it.
I don't know how many people would make fun of the Torah, which is the OT btw, and held very precious to the Jewish people. That's how Christians feel about the Bible. When you mock the Bible, which we believe is the very word of God, then we feel you are mocking God, our faith and everything we believe in. Yes, I take my faith personal so I do take it as a personal attack when someone mocks my God. I literally will feel grieved in the very pit of me. That someone could mock the very one who gave His all to us, is hurts me deeply.

Peekawho, I think you misread and misunderstood me too. The reason I quoted scripture is because there seemed to be a lot of confusion as to what was wrong with psychics, etc, even among some of the other Christians. I thought that by pointing them to scripture and what God had to say about it would help them to understand that it wasn't MY beliefs or whatever. I honestly thought some people would appreciate knowing what God thought about all of that. I wasn't doing it to "Lord it over people" or because I thought I was better than anyone else. I don't know how it all came down to that. I honestly thought there'd be people who would be open enough to say "Oh, I didn't realize that was in the Bible. I'll go look that up myself" or something to that effect. How could it be that you thought it was all about me when I kept trying to point people to God and His Word and what it has to say on that matter and many other matters? It grieves me terribly that any of you would have thought that. That was not my intent at all. Something was missed completely somehow. I kept telling people to pray on their own and seek God on their own and that He does show Himself to those truly seeking Him. I would have thought that'd be an encouragement to some!

And suzi-q, maybe I am "too touchy" but my God is very real to me and yes, I take it personally if I feel He is being mocked. He has just done so much for me and my family that I will stand up for Him. I cringe every time I hear His holy, precious name being profaned as a dirty word. So yes, I get touchy about my faith and my God. I have a hard time sitting back and listening to anyone say hateful or mocking things about someone so dear to me. He means the world to me.

I know you all are trying to just joke around and make light here but I really wish we could have just let things die with the whole Oprah journal.
I'm just going to ask again to please, please be respectful here. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone or took anything wrong. I really am.

And have 2 kids. you are so right. It grieves me terribly some of the terrible things people who call themselves Christians have done. I know part of it is our humanness but it's one thing if you struggle with sin and are trying to overcome it or if you've unintentionally offended someone but it's all together something else when you call yourself a follower of Christ and yet are not truly following Him and His teachings. Jesus Himself said there would be many people who think they're going to Heaven but they are hypocrites! And He will tell them He never knew them. That's the key. It's a heart thing. It's all about having a personal relationship with Christ, not what church you go to or how many charities you belong to. God and only God knows our hearts and knows how to weed out the ones who are superficial. He says He hates lukewarm people. He'd rather them be hot or cold and someday He will spit out the lukewarm people. He wants all our love and all our worship.

Again I'm sorry about this whole thing today. I've felt so grieved in my heart since that last post. I just love the Lord so much and I do like to share it with others but I know others don't want to hear and maybe I get too enthusiastic or something.
I hope you know when I pray that all eyes be opened, it's to be opened to the truth and how good God is and that's for all of us! Whether we call ourselves Christians or not. We all forget His goodness and grace sometimes and need to be reminded of it. When I pray, I often ask God to open my eyes to His truth and what He wants me to know and learn about today. I hope any of this helps you all to better understand me. I in no way want others to think that I think I'm better than anyone because that's simply not so! I know I'm not even the greatest Christian. I fall a lot and fail the Lord a lot but I keep getting back up and trying again.
I hope any of this makes sense and helps you all to see where I'm coming from. Thanks for hearing me out.
God bless.
April



184674 tn?1360864093
by AHP84, May 13, 2008
April, just to re-word what I think you meant to say here: "He says He hates lukewarm people." I think you meant to say God hates for people to be lukewarm in their relationship with Him. As Christians, we know God does not hate people, just the sins that people commit.

I just felt I needed to make that very clear so people won't come back to use that against you or Christian beliefs and God.

And also, I don't think you need to be so apologetic for standing up for Christ and your belief in Him. I think you're doing a wonderful job explaining what we as Christians should so passionately be telling to lukewarm believers and non-believers. You don't have to be sorry to anyone for that. Christ never was apologetic to the Pharisees and Sadducees when he'd convict their ways and offend them. Never.

You should be proud of yourself, April--I am! :-)

203342 tn?1328740807
by April2, May 13, 2008
That is what I meant, thanks for clearing that up for me AJ. This all kind of goes back from another journal post that became so heated it was deleted. I was just wanting to clear up some things that may have been misunderstood.
It's good to hear from you again! I haven't heard from you in awhile! :) And thanks for the kind words.

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 13, 2008
April...again...its not "others don't want to hear".  Its that we all hear in our own way.  We hear what we believe.  It might be very different than what you hear when you pray.

There are many forms of Christianity, April.  You happen to believe in one that's very different from what I hear.  My God does not "spit out" lukewarm people.  He doesn't "turn his back on anyone, saying he never knew them".  My God knows everyone, and believes in the good in everyone, and forgives everyone.  The God I know is more impressed by what people do for others, rather than how loudly they pray.   I believe we speak to God more through actions than words, even when those words are couched in religious rhetoric.  

*shrugs shoulders*

I see where you are coming from, but I'm sorry--you believe strongly in the traditional "fire and brimstone, heaven and hell" and I simply don't.  I believe I'm right, but certainly and strongly...I believe that you have the right to worship and believe what you want.  And I'm saying "you" in the collective sense right here.  There are many paths to the end of the maze that we call life.  

I'm angry to read that you believe you "fail" as a Christian.  Again, I don't believe the same way.  You are in no way a failure, and I'm uninterested in any type of religion that urges you to consider yourself a failure.  You are devout (certainly) kind, understanding, and do your best.  In no one's  world can you be considered a failure.  If you truly believe that of yourself simply because of how you interpret the Bible then I want no part of that interpretation.  



172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 13, 2008
No, April should not apologize for her beliefs.  But to say this:

"Christ never was apologetic to the Pharisees and Sadducees when he'd convict their ways and offend them. Never."

It makes me very glad for my own personal beliefs.  



494669 tn?1275366075
by eel81, May 13, 2008
april2, we respect all opinions but we don't like it when it feeld like the bible is being shoved down our throats. we all have beliefs and we don't need people saying there not good enough heres the bible.
i don't like it when people start quoting the bible. it annoys me if i don't want to hear it then i shouldn't have it. i don't mock the bible i don't think anyone here did, but when you try to push your religion on people, we are going to react.
no one bashes anyone here, this is an open opininon blog as far as i am comcerned and people can have opinions just don't push the bible down my throat, there is no need to quote from the bible, a good christian doesn't need to be reminded.
i ahve my own beliefs and don't need to feel wrong for that. we all need to open minded.

165308 tn?1323190145
by suzi-q, May 13, 2008
April,

please read my message and note to you.  I do value your opinions and did not mean the sarcastic "touchy" to you.  I meant it to those who went haywire on the whole Oprah "scandal" and practically calling her an anti-christ!  Please accept my apology.  YOu are my cyberfriend!

93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 13, 2008
******stands up and offers Peek a standing ovation******

Absolutely perfect...where do I send my tithe?

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 13, 2008
Send it to the Santa Margarita Water district, whose members have chosen to smite me by cutting off the water for the entire afternoon now.  

I'm having to go to the gym now to shower.  Wonder if I can take along all my dirty dishes and wash them with me, in the shower?  

93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 13, 2008
Ewwww, that is a little too close to Kramer and his shower gourmet...



Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 13, 2008
haha!! just was watching sienfeld

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 13, 2008
Later, gaters.  

First ya'll made me not go to the gym this morning.  I refuse to go to work stinky tonight!  

165308 tn?1323190145
by suzi-q, May 13, 2008
Hang in there Peek!  You skinny Beotch!

93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 13, 2008
Hey, you are forced to smell stinky "stuff" all night long, serves them right ;-)

460185 tn?1326081372
by lonewolf07, May 13, 2008
Hi April

I have no problem with you quoting the Bible -  I can learn from it.  Neither do I feel you are forcing anyone to believe the way you do.   Every religion and belief system should be respected.  Unfortunately, people are not particularly respectful towards others - not just here but "out there".  Still wonder what Christ would say about this.

Dominus vobiscum - God go with you - in mino bimagiwiin - in a good way.

wolf




93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 13, 2008
I think "christ" would say "Stop spreading hate in my name"



Avatar universal
by grammy64, May 13, 2008
Have 2 kids lives in my town!

460185 tn?1326081372
by lonewolf07, May 13, 2008
AndiJ

I think you are absolutely correct =  )




203342 tn?1328740807
by April2, May 13, 2008
Lol, oh no! Please don't say I'm the thumping fire and brimstone going to hell person! Oh my gosh, I went to a fundamentalist church one time where I wanted to crawl under the pew because the pastor was screaming the whole fire and brimstone going to hell thing at us! It was scary.
No, I have to be careful because I came from a rather legalistic church and that's why I rebelled for quite awhile afterwards. It's hard to understand the grace of God for any of us. I wasn't trying to Bible thump anyone. It was up to you all if you wanted to look up the scriptures I gave you. Like I said, I thought there might be some people who would be interested in hearing what the Bible said about all of that.
And the lukewarm thing is in the Bible too, honest! I didn't make that up!
As for feeling like I fail God sometimes, well that's part of my personality, I guess. I tend to be a perfectionist so I can be rather hard on myself. I'm not saying God is doing that to me.
According to the Bible, we are living in a time of grace right now because of what Christ did for us. It's hard for any of us to understand the grace, mercy and love of God sometimes. But I don't feel condemned by God. Even if I do feel like He's trying to correct me it's always been in a gentle way. When I found out we could grieve the Holy Spirit by our actions and thoughts I knew that I never wanted to grieve God! So I do try to do all I can to please Him not out of compulsion (I hope not) but out of my love for Him and appreciation for all He's done.

And in defense of what AJH84 said, the only people that Jesus EVER had harsh words for were the Pharisees. You know why? Because they were hypocrites! They liked to pray loudly in the streets and look so pious (did I spell that right?!), they tythed their money, fasted, etc. They did everything right but their hearts were cold towards God! You see God is more interested in each person's heart than anything else. That's why He said what He did about lukewarm people.

Suzi, please don't worry about anything. I probably do get too touchy on certain subjects. The two I'm most passionate about are probably my family and my faith. I'm not mad at you.

I'm not apologizing for my beliefs. I was apologizing in case something I said came across the wrong way. Let's just leave it at that, shall we?
I tend to be a very open, honest person. Sometimes I do wear my heart on my sleeve which gets me into trouble a lot! But I don't like to play games and I don't like to see fighting, etc. I guess I just figure life's too short for all of that. I know, now I'm a philosopher, lol.
Take care all & God bless.

203342 tn?1328740807
by April2, May 13, 2008
Actually, Joy, I think this journal has made a turning point. Or at least I hope it has. I think some misunderstandings were cleared up and I hope we can all be adult enough to listen to each other and accept each other without it becomming ugly. I hate fighting too and so I always try to be the peacemaker. I don't hold grudges and forgive pretty easily. I hope everyone else is the same. Peace.

203342 tn?1328740807
by April2, May 13, 2008
Well, at least I thought it had made a turning point. Sigh.

270405 tn?1293039221
by houseofgirls, May 13, 2008
I don't think this journal was becoming abusive at all.  It seemed that people were really able to discuss what was on their minds.

Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 13, 2008
i think if some cant handle what they read maybe public forums arent the right place for them.

my baby is 6 months today!!

Avatar universal
by kathryn80, May 13, 2008
Fear of the unknown.
Fear of change.
History.... many times in history, religion and facts surrounding different religions have been twisted and manipulated to control the masses and align people with a cause whether or not it is legitimate.  Again, fear-based.
Misunderstandings... um, did I mention fear?
We should all make an effort to understand and listen rather than judge and blame;)  

145992 tn?1341348674
by mami1323, May 13, 2008
Thank you ziggy, that's exactly what I was trying to say but you said it more eloquently.

203342 tn?1328740807
by April2, May 13, 2008
To tell you all the truth, when the journal was first started I did ask Joy what she thought about it. I was feeling hurt about some of it at the time. Before she wrote back, though, I felt like we were all able to clear the air and that some misunderstandings were cleared up. I felt like we had moved on from the beginning. So please don't be mad at her. It's more my fault. Like I said before, maybe I get too sensitive about my faith. But to be honest, the beginning of the journal didn't seem too nice. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) by the time Joy came on we seemed to have moved past most of this. Please forgive me if I've stirred anything up here. I feel like a lot of this is my fault because I responded first to the Oprah journal and it seemed like a lot of people then followed and then it seemed like this journal became a spin-off of the other one and then it snowballed again. Sigh. Can we all just start over and get along? Can we really move past this all and just agree to disagree? Can we all still be cyber friends whether we have different beliefs or not? I think so. I hope others feel the same way. If you all don't want to hear from me again then I'll understand and I'll leave. Just let me know.
Humbly yours,
April

Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 13, 2008
april as long as you continue this, it cant end.  lets leave joy out of this journal.  

Avatar universal
by mayflowers, May 13, 2008
I haven't read this whole journal but I just want to say, and this is not to start anything, but I thought that journals were different from posts in that a person can say or talk about whatever they like.  Why are they being deleted?  They are interesting and good for debates.   I liked Joy's subject so I commented.  I thought it was about Oprah/Eckhert Tolle so I commented my thoughts on the matter.   It's Joy's right to talk and edit as she wants b/c it's her journal entry.  

April has very strong beliefs, this is important to her, so if she feels like quoting scripture, what's so bad about that?   I don't think she posts to hurt or make people feel badly, she wants to state the reasons for why she believes what she does.  I've never taken anything April says as pushing her beliefs on me.  It doesn't come across like that to me.

I'm just putting in my 2 cents not trying to **** anyone off.  I just thought journal were different than posts and they were more like reading someone's diary and making comments.



203342 tn?1328740807
by April2, May 13, 2008
I'm not trying to continue this either! I was just trying to explain. I want to move past this too.

I'm grateful that MH hasn't banned us from talking religion or anything else for that matter. We do live in a free country after all and shouldn't be afraid to talk about anything at all. Yes, the topics can get heated but I think as long as we can try and respect each other we can have some very interesting, enlightening conversations and can learn a lot about each other. Don't you agree?
And Andi, I think it's a two way street. I'm sure there's been just as many religious as non-religious people who have left this site over hurt feelings. I really think we should be fair about all of this. I don't think any one group is the "bad guy".

203342 tn?1328740807
by April2, May 13, 2008
I think you're right, Mayflowers. I think a journal is supposed to be for anything we want to talk about. The Oprah one was deleted because things were getting too heated and feelings were hurt, I believe. Even in journals we need to be respectful of each other.

93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 13, 2008
I think religion is deeply personal and I do feel it is something that creates chaos where there was none. This is a web site for medical support, not religious or political debate. There are millions of places you could go for that. Free speech is fine, but that also goes both ways.



Avatar universal
by JoyRenee, May 13, 2008
I'm glad you all feel you've made a turning point! Open discussion is more than welcome. My whole point is to not hurt anyone elses' feelings. Apparently you've all worked past that, so don't worry about what I wrote. If it is not applicable, then it is not a big deal.

As for "hunting people down" or "moderating you to death"---I was asked to look at this journal by a few people (members) because they felt it was abusive. I was just reminding you guys to play nice. Also, you can see this journal post under RECENT ACTIVITY so it is not difficult to jump in.

AndiJ, I do have to agree with you on what you just posted. Even if no one was outright attacking another, if someone feels their religion/beliefs are under scrutiny they become defensive (especially me). Because it is a part of them and defines who they are as a person, to an extent. And I can honestly say I never once quoted Scripture or mentioned God. And I definitely wasn't try to convert anyone.

I personally have no hard feelings or problems with ANYONE! I respect everyone's views, opinions, and beliefs. Peekawho, pertykitty, AndiJ---you are all intelligent, wonderful people who contribute a LOT to this community. Let's not allow some silly debate that got out-of-hand to put a rift between any of us. As I said before, I apologize because I feel responsible for some people getting upset, which is never my intention. Congrats to all of you whose babies are growing!

171768 tn?1324233699
by tiredbuthappy, May 13, 2008
it seems to me that it is primarily christians who bring up the topic of God and quote religious texts here. (NOT to say that all christians are like that, but honestly i haven't once seen someone say "may Kokopelli, the native american fertility deity, bless you with a child.")  I am not christian-bashing, as i am one myself. and anyone can correct me if my observation is inaccurate.

i did not get to see the oprah journal, but did get a chance to read through most of these posts. i didn't see anyone as attacking anyone else, but not having seen the other post, i may be reading these entries out of context. most of you who know me know that i am not out to pick a fight here. i am simply presenting my perspective to perhaps enlighten others, just as april hoped to enlighten people about the word of God. so here's my views. i am among those people who do find it upsetting when people quote scripture on a medical forum such as this. as some of the posters above stated, it very strongly implies that you feel you are better than others or superior. it may be my personal issue, but it is how i feel. i have been sitting in front of this darn screen trying to find a way to further explain my views, but i'm blanking. if i come up with a way to put my thoughts into words, i'll post another entry.

of course my life's experiences strongly influence my views on this. the only people i know who quote scripture to others use it as a weapon to judge others. (by the way, as a result, everyone, including immediate family members, avoid these few family members. we hide everything from these people because we simply don't want to hear it). i have come across many good, strong devote christians. i only learned of their strong faith through personal conversations with them, not because they quote scripture.



Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 13, 2008
" I was just reminding you guys to play nice"

joy im confused are you an employee for mh now??

Avatar universal
by JoyRenee, May 13, 2008
Yes, that is exactly what I'm doing.

No, perty, and I find you're TRYING to argue with me and pick a fight. But I'm not biting. I was trying to be a good person and smooth things over by apologizing. You can take it or leave it. As for me, I'm moving on! I've got a life to live and more important things to worry about. I used to think we got along, but apparently there are some deeper issues, some bitterness or hatred you're harboring towards me. Look, if I ever did or said something to you, then tell me. Don't try to bring me down, 'cause it won't work.

Have a BLESSED evening!

127124 tn?1326739035
by have 2 kids, May 14, 2008
Perty and Andi are right.  This is a medical forum not a discussion forum.
Religion or politics don't really belong here but I think someone should post what they want in their journal.  
I'm really confused by some of the postings.  "God hates lukewarm people"   The God I believe in doesn't hate anyone.  And I don't think he would be happy with  some of the "christians" on here who are pointing fingers at others.

Avatar universal
by mayflowers, May 14, 2008
Come on people, I've seen lots of discussions other than "medical stuff" on Medhelp so it's not just controversial topics like religion that gets talk about.  People talked about what they wanted for Christmas, what they got at their baby showers, movies, books, there was even a post about recipes once.....that's why most of you are on this one anyway.

Frankly, I like giving my opinion on different topics.  It's fun, plain and simple.  Plus, I get to vent about stuff.  If I don't vent on here, I'll vent at my co-workers and then get fired again b/c I'm mean and nasty and then I won't have any money to pay for stuff like food/rent and I'll die.  So, this forum is actually good for me.


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by AndiJ78, May 14, 2008
On the women's social forum that stuff is fine and encouraged. But on any other forum, it should be medically related topics.

I guess I see it this way: would you go up to random strangers and start a religious debate in the hospital waiting room? Doctor's office? Support group for TTC?

I do all my big venting via PM. Keeps it off the forums.

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by mslkpage, May 14, 2008
I actually don't mind the religious discussions. What I don't like is someone telling me that I can't be a Christian AND have new age beliefs. I am/have both. I turn to the bible for guidance, but I don't believe it word for word. There are excerpts which describe fathers selling daughters into slavery or death as pentance for those who work on Sundays (gee, I had to take a flight a couple of Sundays ago for work...does that count??), and other ridiculous things that can only be explained as outdated or misinterpreted. I agree with ziggy in that I can make a joke about my religion or the church I was raised in (Catholic) and not get bent out of shape about it. That doesn't make me a bad Christian and it doesn't mean I'm not a Christian- it just means my beliefs are different from other Christians. Those who spout off about "We as Christians should..blah, blah, blah..." need to keep in mind that they're not speaking for all of us. But really, I don't mind hearing different opinions but chances are you're going to hear mine too.

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by rubyolivia, May 14, 2008
I agree with Andi, Perty and Have2Kids.......this IS a medical community! And if you are going to discuss religion on a public forum, and if you know SO much about religion, you should be prepared and understand that religion has such a wide range of supporters and nonsupporters. People come of so many faiths, some of no faith, and some of several faiths "all mixed up" and even those individuals from the same faith(s) are going to have differing opinions here and there. Praying for someone to "have their eyes opened" is not exactly a statement that someone of great Christian faith, who is loving and devoted, would say to someone! Just because their eyes don't see what you see, doesn't mean that they are closed!

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by peekawho, May 14, 2008
My oh my!  I see lots of busy fingers while I've been at work all night.  Apparently this journal thread has gone *poof* a number of times and is now back.  Apparently, many people who posted here got PM's from a certain someone, although certainly I did not.  

I just want MH to go back to the way it was 5+ years ago.  It was nice.  People had a question, it was answered.  Back then, it was against the terms and conditions to discuss religion...boy, that's changed in the past year, hasn't it??  It was a medical forum.  A place where people who were confused about medical topics and issues could post a question, for free, and get an answer, often from a doctor.  Times change, though, and growing pains are tough.  

I simply wanted to make the point that this is MedHelp International, and it is read by people all over the world.  Many of whom don't share in Christian beliefs.  These people may turn away from Med Help if it becomes predominantly biased towards one religion or another.   I'd hate to see that.  

On a religious forum, I'd expect to see open discussions and threads filled with exploring our beliefs.  However, this is a medical forum.  Yes. we all like to chit chat and discuss off topic issues, and Cindy has graciously created a Womens Community for just this purpose.  
MedHelp is a medical forum, no matter how much any of us want it to be something different.  It will remain so until Cindy and Phil decide it should be something different.  

We all have to be respectful of others beliefs, and I'm including myself in this statement.  I will fight for Joy or Aprils right to believe anyway they wish, just as I expect them to fight for my right to believe as I would like to.  However, I will also work to exclude statements of ANY religious bias from the medical forums, unless CINDY emails me and tells me she would like me to stop contributing.  If she wants statements of religion coloring the medical advice given, all she has to do is to tell me and I'll stop immediately.  

Now, I'm tired and just got off a shift that started at 7pm last night.  So everybody play nice and be fair and let me get some dang sleep, people.  







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by mami1323, May 14, 2008
mayflowers - I agree that other topics are discussed other than medical but recipes and x-mas gifts and things of that nature do not cause controversy the way religion does.  Unless of course someone doesn't like the way I make my chocolate chip cookies and thinks their way is better.  But typically religion will always strike a cord the same way abortion or teenage pregnancy does.  

I would also like to know who else received a pm from Joy?  I know she singled me out for some reason and want to know who else received a message.

Avatar universal
by wonderme, May 14, 2008
I'm entering this well behind and honestly had a tough time reading through this all...

I am a Christian and have a very strong faith.  I have my beliefs but entirely respect others whose beliefs may not be my own.  They are entitled to believe what they want...what I do NOT support, however, is anything that makes one person believe that they are somehow Holyier than another or behavior that is harmful or hurtful to another.  

Unfortunately, in my personal experience, I do find many Christians who hide behind their faith to present an affront that somehow they are better than those that do not share their beliefs.  And, one of my biggest pet peeves is the person who says "One day you will see..." as if somehow they possess a knowledge that I am incapable of...but may someday attain.

I teach my children to love and respect others...even those whose beliefs I do not hold.  My God taught me that every person has value and is loved by Him...Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in His sight...I remember from childhood and it still holds true today.  I often have to remind myself to step back and see something from someone else's perspective...a behavior that I find insulting or can't understand, but will ask myself --was there a reason that person behaved that way?  Did I contribute to it somehow?  

Regardless, April, I am certain that you do feel ganged up on...and for that I am sorry.  But, your last comment is that you "would say God bless you all but I know you don't want God's blessings so I will say this; I wish you all peace, joy and happiness. We sure need more of that in this world."  Many of the women posting here have clearly stated that they are Christians and probably would appreciate the blessings, but don't feel this is the forum for it.  You shouldn't go stomp in the corner b/c you feel alone...and God expects us to love everyone, especially those that present the most challenge for us.

Lastly, I defended someone a while back and in doing so insulted someone AND I was in the wrong entirely.  When I realized this, I immediately apologized and was kindly forgiven.  This by someone you chose to spar with...forgiveness is difficult, but is a true pillar of Christianity.

Bless everyone of any religion, shape, size, color, IQ, etc., etc,. etc.


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by peekawho, May 14, 2008
Wonderme, thank you for that.  Very, very well said.

See how nice this discussion can be?  We are grown women, and can often police ourselves if given half a chance.  



Avatar universal
by mayflowers, May 14, 2008
I saw a post by a woman who wrote about some vampire books her daughter was reading in Maternal & Child forum.  The only thing related is she is a mother and that's her child but there was no medical issue involved.  I've seen people talk about other things happening in their lives in posts too.  It's ok though, b/c to regulate it would make the forum too rigid.  People should be able to write freely and if they disagree, why can't that happen as well?  We don't have to be mean about it, just say "ok, we agree to disagree" and move on.  Life it too short to tell someone they are wrong for thinking a certain way as long as they aren't abusing people or hurting animals or trying to rip someone off.

Mami - The religion topic actually started in someone's journal - JoyRenee's journal - her own journal - and wasn't a post.  I dont' see why everyone is getting upset over Joy's journal. It's not like she posted in Maternal & Child forum and then criticized everyone for not thinking the way she thinks.  She didn't do that.  She even had a warning on it that it was a biased journal entry so she was giving people fair warning about the subject matter.  

I don't think there is a bad chocolate chip recipe  since ALL cookies (excpet the diet ones, oops, guess I am prejudice) are  good.  



Avatar universal
by cutiemama, May 14, 2008
For the hundredth time since 2005 when I became a MH member: I heart Peek and AndiJ!!! They read and speak my mind (and a lot better than I could articulate anyway!). This is a MEDICAL community!!!!!!!!! Leave G-d and scriptures and your rleigious judgements out of the posts.

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by peekawho, May 14, 2008
May--for about the hundreth time, I did NOT write anything about Oprah in Joys journal that was not true.  I listed her accomplishments and things she's done as a benefactor to humanity.  

And then the s**t hit the fan, with people taking extreme offense.  I stood up for myself, as others claim they have the right to.  

I like Oprah.  I like Dr. Phil.  I REALLY like Judge Judy.  I'll say it a thousand more times if I have to.  



Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 14, 2008
jen no person alive lives without mistakes.  id like to make fun of my feet right now in desperate need of a pedi.

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by AndiJ78, May 14, 2008
But i see the conversation about the books as being related to concerns of a parent about her child. She wanted advice on the emotional well-being of her child. She wanted to know if anyone else had read the books and if she should be concerned that her daughter's fantasy life could cause harm to her reality. That is a medical question related to the psychological well-being of a child. Just as when this poster asked if she should be concerned about her daughters mushroom drawing.

Cutie-hey girl!!! How are things? I seem to lose track of so many folks nowadays, shoot me a pm when you get time so we can catch up.

wonderme- how are the girls?

And on the topic of cookies. Oh my, Jonathan's t-ball team sold cookies and I bought these new Lemon Cooler ones...they were awesome!! Built in self control mechanism because if you eat more than 2 in a row they taste funky.

And I don't watch daytime TV, no Dr Phil unless Peek calls and tells me a good one is on, don't watch Oprah (yet my Christian mom does and loves her) and Judge Judy is a little too heavy on the "stupid" to watch with kids ;-)

But i heart Backyardigans, especially the "Flying Rock" episode. I find it very important for my children to learn the Electric Slide and the Hustle,lol.

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by peekawho, May 14, 2008
I adore JJ.  Simply adore her.  I may be changing my name to Judy any day now.  

Ok, I'm REALLY GOING TO BED NOW.  

I mean it.  REALLY.

Keep it down in here.  

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by gen584, May 14, 2008
peekawho ur funny on somethinga;.)

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by peekawho, May 14, 2008
Well, gen, we all have to be good at something.  



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by AndiJ78, May 14, 2008
Funny is Peek's gift. Well that and cable installation.



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by gen584, May 14, 2008
hey i though u was going to bed ;.)

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by peekawho, May 14, 2008
No one here remembers me as a cable installer, Andi.

Ok, already!  I'm GOING.  

Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 14, 2008
i miss the days of her international travels for the cable company.

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by mslkpage, May 14, 2008
She's funny when she's not being a butthole. =)

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by mslkpage, May 14, 2008
I take that back- she's funny when she's being a butthole too.

Avatar universal
by wonderme, May 14, 2008
Peek...you are too funny.  Ditto on the Dr. Phil and esp. Judge Judy...way too amusing!  Don't care one way or the other about Oprah...and I missed all the original hubbub about this.

Andi...we are hanging in there...sometimes by a thread, but that is the life of a mother, right?  I'll send you an update when my little one lets me as she is beckoning as we speak!  Hope your little guys are doing well...t-ball in full swing!

And, my cents to whoever asked above...I attend church every week and bring my kids.  They attend religion every week...but I teach them to accept EVERYONE and feel that everyone has a right to their beliefs and to do things as they see fit AS LONG AS they are not hurting anyone, not breaking the law AND offering the same respect to others -- even those who don't agree with them.

As I've told my kids time and again, everyone is different...big/small, thin/fat, blonde/brunette, smart/not so smart, etc. but wouldn't it be boring if we were all the same.  And I tell them to keep their eyes and ears open, you can learn so many valuable things if you keep your mind open and don't assume that you already know everything.

Good luck to all!

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by peekawho, May 14, 2008
Only I can call me a butthole, Lisa.

*drags feet on way to bed*

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by April2, May 14, 2008
You're right. I shouldn't have said that last part. Please forgive me. I just feel like I have to watch everything I say now and it's not a good feeling. I feel like I can't be myself then. But I certainly in no way meant to offend anyone. I hope we all can move past all of this. I just wish you all would have tried to understand me more and where I was coming from. I don't judge people (at least I try not to) and I do try and respect all people. It seemed as though you all wanted to make me out to be something I'm not. So yeah, I got defensive. I'm still pretty shaken up over this so I will end this. Peace.

Avatar universal
by Atia_Julii, May 14, 2008
Have 2 kids,
I just saw that you were 108 years old. . .  I think you are in the wrong forum, as this is for 21-34 year olds. . . ;-)
Okay, that was my poor attempt at humor. :-D

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by mami1323, May 14, 2008
mayflowers - not true, I've had a couple bad chocolate chip cookies.  I think they were undercooked.  Yuck!!!

Avatar universal
by Atia_Julii, May 14, 2008
April2,
The last few posts you said you were going to be done with this.  Really, just be done with it.

I say this to help you out.  You seem upset at this post, and as you said, you are shaken up.  This is a MB filled with people from all walks of life.  This is not real life, and nothing anyone says or does on this MB should make you feel a certain way.  

Have confidence in who you are, and move on. . .

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by AndiJ78, May 14, 2008
I agree, Milk. I think she may be funniest when she is being a pooper. That and while recounting life with sasquatch aka Mr Peek ;-)

I am no longer allowed to suggest food to Peek, I am partially responsible for a relapse the other day. So no one ever try the Pringles Selects or the Pringles Sticks.

Sorry, being inundated with sloppy baby kisses...gotta go!

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by April2, May 14, 2008
Have 2 kids, believe it or not I can take a joke. Why the dig? I would have thought it was funny without the added on part. Can we please let this whole thing die?

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by peekawho, May 14, 2008
April--Be yourself!  I heart you!  

Just remember, as I promise to do also, that we are a community of very, very different people in very different circumstances.  We all fiercely believe in our own personal truths.  None of us are failures.  We are strong women, with minds, voices, and opinions.  

Always reme..........................

*falls over dead mid-speeech, from exhaustion*

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by have 2 kids, May 14, 2008
April- actually that wasn't intended for you.    

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by peekawho, May 14, 2008
*raises up on arms, looks around, flops down dead again with a tad more emphasis this time*

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by April2, May 14, 2008
Thanks Peek, I appreciate that. I'm sorry if I'm being extra sensitive these last few days. Can I blame it on PMS? How about stress? I've had an awful lot of that too lately. Peace, sister.

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by April2, May 14, 2008
Sorry have 2 kids, look at above post. I'm extra sensitive right now, I guess! Sorry. :(

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by peekawho, May 14, 2008
*raises head up weakly to acknowledge April with something resembling a wave*

*falls back down again*

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by suzi-q, May 14, 2008
Mami,

I happen to like undercooked cookies!!!!!  So, do NOT make general statements about cookies!

Suzi

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by peekawho, May 14, 2008
*cracks open eye just a hair, to see if anyone is around, shuts eye again*

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by GNicole, May 14, 2008
gen584- you called us buttholes, I think that constitutes "talking junk"!

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by suzi-q, May 14, 2008
Peek...GO TO SLEEP!!!!!

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by mami1323, May 14, 2008
suzi - sorry my bad....I used to eat cookie dough.  Too much made me nauseous though.  Am I being prejudice about cookies?...lol.

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by AndiJ78, May 14, 2008
I love undercooked cookies. I make the kids cooked all the way and mine a little raw ;-)

****Raises oversized mallet to play whack-a-peek*****



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by lonewolf07, May 14, 2008
Judge Judy - hmmmm.  Now that Jerry Springer is no longer around (in Canada anyway) Judge Judy is THE person to watch.  Much smarter than Dr. Phil and not as predictable as Maury.  Now you can see how I spend my time  LOL




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by have 2 kids, May 14, 2008
Undercooked cookies are gross!!!!!!!!
My kids feel deprived because I won't let them eat cookie dough.

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by mami1323, May 14, 2008
You know my mom interned with Judge Judy.  Back then she was a judge in the NY family court.  My mom said she's exactly the way she is on tv.

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by AndiJ78, May 14, 2008
Yikes, mami!!

I don't let them eat the cookie dough either...I am a mean mom.

I like mine chewy on the outside and soft on the inside, but there is a fine line. The cookie needs to stay intact while I pick it up and not splat if it hits the floor.

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by mami1323, May 14, 2008
I know, I'm gross but right after that they came up with cookie dough ice cream.  I had something going, I should've put a patent on that.  I would be a millionaire...lol.

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by ziggysgrl0724, May 14, 2008
based on the fact that my little peanut has completely changed the way I feel about certain foods....I cannot right at this moment imagine how yummy it would be to eay an ooey gooey cookie thats on the verge of cooked........bllaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!  I wish I could WANT a cookie, lol......thank you ladies for rubbing the fact that you are all so fondly day dreaming about cookies........some people I swear!

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by mami1323, May 14, 2008
Sorry ziggy.  When I was pregnant I craved sushi...go figure.

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by ziggysgrl0724, May 14, 2008
i'm not really "craving" anything.....but I can eat some chese pizza bagel bites like no ones business....i think I need to go pre heat my oven lol...

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by mami1323, May 14, 2008
LOL...what's with pizza?  That's all I ever wanted during pregnancy.  Well it's the only thing I could really tolerate.  Oh man, I wanted a whopper with cheese all the time.  I reserved myself though and only had it maybe once a month.  But if it wasn't for how fattening it was I would've eaten it everyday.

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by ziggysgrl0724, May 14, 2008
mami_ I hereby forbid you to bring pizza up again, for you are afterall living in NY, and they by far have the best pizza ever....I grew up in brooklyn, and if there is one thing I can honestly tell you i miss about NY it is pizza and chinese food........oh what I wouldnt do for a slice of NY pizza.....and an italian ice, lol....

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by mami1323, May 14, 2008
I won't mention it again.  OMG!!!  In Long Island there is a spot called Ralph's Icees and they have the best italian ice that I ever had.  A million flavors.  I always sent the fiance to get me like a pound of it.

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by ziggysgrl0724, May 14, 2008
you know whats funny is that NY is the only place I have seen where you can buy fresh italian ices....the kind you get in the little white paper cups...and def. the only place i have seen that sells my favorite flavor...vanilla chip...man I am getting hungry COME ON PIZZA BAGEL BITES!!!!

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by mami1323, May 14, 2008
I had a thing for the vanilla chip one for a while but this place has the creme ice that is similar to ice cream but isn't.  I don't know if that makes sense but I always got the rocky road one.  I also devoured the cherry one because there were actually cherry pieces in it.  Oh man, I want some now.

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by AndiJ78, May 14, 2008
I love sushi, but somehow have developed a taste only for the stuff I make, which stinks because it is so labor intensive especially with kids underfoot!

My pg with T brought me out of being a vegan and back into the meat eating world. I craved Whoppers and Big Mac's and all without the guilt because i also had hyperemesis, so anything I ate came back up!

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by mami1323, May 14, 2008
Andi - you were lucky, when I ate it, it went straight to the thighs.  I'm still paying for now.

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by AndiJ78, May 14, 2008
What can i say, I'll find the silver lining in anything,lol!

My new thing is the Santa Fe chicken sandwich from Carl's Jr. Tasty stuff indeed!

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by ziggysgrl0724, May 14, 2008
talk about going straight to the thihgs...I just ate like 10 of little bagel bites and threw some more in the oven.....I just NEEDED more....does this make me a bad person? lol

Funny thing about me and this pregnancy....have you ever heard of someone being nauseous or throwing up and fast food making them feel BETTER? well thats me...lol......a while ago, when MS was at its worst, i ate toast and water, and threw it up like no ones business.....a little while latr, had some Mcdonalds and all was right with the world...lol......all day yesterday my stomach was HORRIBLE, i felt like ****....and DH didnt want me to cook dinnr incase I "breathed' on his food and got him sick, HA...so he went to get burger king....well, he got me something and wouldnt you know after I ate it I felt better? isnt that weird?

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by mami1323, May 14, 2008
Andi - we don't have a Carl's Jr. in NY.  I'm glad too because I would probably find myself going out and getting a Santa Fe chicken sandwich just to see what you are talking about...lol.

ziggy - My doc told me that may happen.  She said eat whatever I could keep down.  Unfortunately, I never had a problem keeping everything and anything down.  It all stayed.  Except toothpaste....I would always gag when I brushed my teeth.  I did have ms but it was usually after I drank orange juice or pineapple juice.  Too acidic I guess.

Avatar universal
by wonderme, May 14, 2008
I love the almost baked cookies, too...just like Andi described.  My DH and kids eat it raw -- the pasteurized kind -- which I can't stand.  To each their own.  Trouble is that I'll eat 400 of them if given the chance...and then wonder why I can't lose any weight.  Go figure!

Ziggy...not sure about the fast food...but I think pregnancy is a strange time (as far as food is concerned) so as long as it is not full of listeria, mercury or all the other things they tell you to avoid, I say have at it!  With my oldest (11) I ate a turkey sandwich EVERY SINGLE DAY...with this one, I was too afraid to b/c of the fear of listeria (and the fact that I'd already had a miscarraige so I was taking no chances).  The only thing that was left to eat was pasta and toast...blah, blah, blah, blah.  I'm sure if I looked into it, there would be something wrong with those, too!  And, aren't DHs the best!

Have a great day everyone!

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by mami1323, May 14, 2008
They say you get big babies if you eat a ton of carbs.  I loved carbs during my pregnancy and I ended up with a 9 lb 2 oz baby.

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by AndiJ78, May 14, 2008
We have to drive an hour to get Carls' Jr, so that keeps the trips down ;-)

With Clay I could eat anything...until my GB flared in the last trimester. Then even water hurt!



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by tiredbuthappy, May 14, 2008
ziggysgrl- just wanted to say you're not alone. i had terrible morning sickness, and there were many time when i'd eat fast food and it stayed down no problem, when i couldn't keep anything else down. maybe all the grease slicks up everything and it flies through digestion before you have a chance to puke?

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by suzi-q, May 14, 2008
NO ONE ON THIS SITE BETTER PICK ON RAW COOKIE DOUGH!  I HAVE (and still will one day) EAT THE WHOLE ROLL OF PILSBURY COOKIE DOUGH! (not in one sitting).  It is the BEST!  Keep your pizza, ices and whatever else, RAW COOKIE DOUGH IS THE WAY TO GO! (I won't let my daughter eat it raw, either..I have to hide!!!)

PEEK, WHEN YOU WAKE UP, PLEASE DELETE ALL THOSE WHO HAVE NEGATIVE STATEMENTS AGAINST MY COOKIE DOUGH!!!

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by peekawho, May 14, 2008
I'm on it.  Just have to get some coffee in me.  The puppy did not sleep well.  

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by AndiJ78, May 14, 2008
But puppies are a blessing peek ;-)

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by peekawho, May 14, 2008
*stares unblinkingly at Andi*

They aren't??

I simply don't understand how this happened, anyway.  I mean, we use protection and everything.  It was just one time!  One time going into a pet store, and BAM!  A new mouth to feed.  

It only takes once, ladies.  

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by mami1323, May 14, 2008
You know peek, if you're not prepared for the outcome you shouldn't be going into those pet stores.  

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by peekawho, May 14, 2008


He was on sale.  That's what put us over the edge.  

1. Puppy
2. On sale
3. Not a good scenario.

I need a puppy IUD or something.  So that this can't happen again.  

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by AndiJ78, May 14, 2008
No, you need to call ME before you make those decisions. Apparently our little chat about the australian cattle dog the week before didn't stick. Never listen to a man when he says he will stick around and help...next thing you know you have p!ss all over and they both look guilty!

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by peekawho, May 14, 2008
True enough.

His majesty the Sasquatch is on his way home from riding, so I'd better skeddadle.  I've frittered the day away again here!



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by mami1323, May 14, 2008
I understand it completely.  I can't go into those places because I would come home with every animal in there.  I'm a complete animal lover.  When I watch movies and anything happens to the animals in the movie, I'm hysterical.  I remember my fiance brought that eight below movie about those sled dogs being abandoned.  I got so mad at him, and stormed out of the room crying.  I couldn't get through 15 minutes of that movie.  

176741 tn?1295237589
by 2ndBaby, May 14, 2008
Ooh, my ears perked up...australian cattle dog?  As in blue heeler?  That's what my dh is waiting for.  He thinks it will be the perfect compliment for our australian shepherd.  As if!

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 15, 2008
Ooh!  Some of the earlier comments have been "disabled"!!  There is a line through them!  You can still read, them however.

Go and look about halfway through the posts.  Am I insane?  (don't answer that).  There is a line through some completely innocent posts.  

????

145992 tn?1341348674
by mami1323, May 15, 2008
I don't see anything.  Could they have deleted them?  Which posts?

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 15, 2008
Maybe the ones with the lines are only visible if its your journal.  About halfway up.  There are several posts that have lines through the text.  



270405 tn?1293039221
by houseofgirls, May 15, 2008
Some of the posts have been deleted.  I went and looked, and a couple of minutes ago they were there, now they are gone.  

145992 tn?1341348674
by mami1323, May 15, 2008
Maybe, well they shouldn't feel the need to delete them.  The entire controversy has been put to rest.  

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 15, 2008
No, but they did feel the need to alter posts made by you members, in my journal.  You can't see them.  I can, but they have a line through the text.  

I have copied them into a word doc, if need be I'll repost.  Most have NOTHING controversial in them.  

145992 tn?1341348674
by mami1323, May 15, 2008
I don't understand why things need to be moderated so intensely.  If we are able to handle the argument and straighten it out on our own then let it be.  We are all adults here.

270405 tn?1293039221
by houseofgirls, May 15, 2008
You know, yesterday I was going to comment on the subject, but then saw that everyone was talking about other things.  I decided to just leave well enough alone.  Seems to me that this just starts it all back up again.  If it were my journal, I would be really ticked off if anything got deleted or changed.  I thought the journals were different than the regular forum?  Oh well.

145992 tn?1341348674
by mami1323, May 15, 2008
I guess we live and learn.  Journals are just as scrutinized as regular forum posts.  Now we all know better.  We will have to come up with a way to get around the politics...lol.

127124 tn?1326739035
by have 2 kids, May 15, 2008
I thought the point of journals was so you could post what you wanted.   If someone hadn't ran tattling to MH everything would be ok.  

159354 tn?1286371288
by deanne11, May 15, 2008
I need to be moderated...I'm not an adult...I'm crying like a little baby now....Can't get myself to go on this weekend getaway without my newly weaned son.

I can't do it....

165308 tn?1323190145
by suzi-q, May 15, 2008
I'm a little late on the puppy conversation....but that is how I got my Tiffy....God rest her little soul...how I miss her....anyhoo......I went into the pet store with a friend and HE was looking to possibly get a dog...he wanted to see this cute little poodle puppy...he wasn't allowed to hold her a few days before because she wasn't old enough yet, so he wanted to go that day..I remember it like yesterday.  He wanted to hold this puppy and I told him, whatever you do, don't let me hold the puppy....guess what!!!  I held the puppy....the rest is history.  Thanks for letting me share about my Tiffy...today is 5 months she is gone...I feel like I have gotten signs from her today...Maybe she is letting me know she is ok...

Avatar universal
by Atia_Julii, May 15, 2008
I made a comment about JoyRenee that got deleted.  I guess making comments about her is not allowed on this forum?

203342 tn?1328740807
by April2, May 15, 2008
How would she be able to do that?? How can someone delete one comment? I thought MH was the only one who could delete stuff.
I did not report this post, just to clear things up but I don't think it's a bad idea to have at least all the first part deleted because if someone new were to stumble onto this post they could start up another heated debate. I'm starting to realize what you all said is true. Whenever you open up a topic on religion, abortion or politics it can get awfully heated to the point that can make people leave the site. I just had someone pm me saying she was leaving the site because of all the persecution of Christians on here. It makes me feel real sad. It shouldn't have to be that way. I'm not going to leave, though, lol. You all can't get rid of me that easily!
Peek, I'm not sure I understand why you copied this onto a word document and said you'd repost if need be. You really don't want things to get bad again, do you?
I think there's a way to keep the journal private, isn't there? Where only people on your friend's list can see it? Maybe for topics like this, that'd be best so that strangers can't get on and start arguments, etc. I don't know, just a thought.
I'm confused though. I didn't notice anything deleted or a line through things. Everything looks the same to me. Anyway, I just wanted to let you all know that I didn't report this. I felt like we all moved on from the hurt feelings and attacks and I was glad to see that things were getting more lighthearted. You know how much I hate fighting, ugh.
Peace.


177465 tn?1288242063
by rubyolivia, May 15, 2008
Peek, please don't change your name to Judy. That's my MIL's name. I don't want to have to think of you and my MIL as being identical in any way, shape or form......

Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 15, 2008
there shouldnt be commercials of food allowed ANYWHERE!!!

118225 tn?1278658540
by ziggysgrl0724, May 15, 2008
I didnt look to see what got deleted.....was it my post about eating 15 bagel bites? I know that was pretty offensive, I am truly sorry if I offended....I really had no control over it at the time time!!! lol

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 15, 2008
April, I said I'd repost it if need be.  The need is not there...yet.  

Actually, ziggy--you made a very nice comment, and it was deleted.  It just happened to state a different view point.

Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 15, 2008
its almost 100 degrees today and 101 tomorrow!! im so not ready for this.

203342 tn?1328740807
by April2, May 15, 2008
Dang, send some of that sunshine over here! It's kinda gloomy and rainy here. Oh well, we need the rain.

165308 tn?1323190145
by suzi-q, May 15, 2008
pertykitty...where do you live?  I am dying and it is only 70 degrees in NY

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 15, 2008
Pk lives in CA, with me.  Not with me, but we're in the same state!

165308 tn?1323190145
by suzi-q, May 15, 2008
Yeah yeah...you probably share the same computer...PeeK and PertyKitty....same initials (PK) and same state???  This is sounding a bit weird here!

145992 tn?1341348674
by mami1323, May 15, 2008
suzi what part of NY are you from?  I live in Manhattan.

343243 tn?1273350304
by omanlover, May 15, 2008
hi, just wanna say, i am not christian, but i love april because she is very faithfull, i believe you missunderstand her. she is really very respectfull!
do not attack each other! enough wars out their my dears!
take care ^.^

Avatar universal
by mon567, May 15, 2008
wow obvioulsy people have alot opinions on this subject. I dnt no if i have a right to say anything as i only cam across this discusion by accident. however i belive everyone has a right to believe wat they want. Nothings wrong. However people should keep there religions to themselves unless asked. i hope everone has a lovely day

118225 tn?1278658540
by ziggysgrl0724, May 15, 2008
oh BOOOO....I see which comment of mine was deleted....I didnt even think I said anything wrong...oh well! Here I was making a joke about being a pig...I had no idea my real comment was deleted...Ieven apologized in it....well, that just stinks!

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 15, 2008
I encourage you to write to Cindy (MedHelp site owner) if you have concerns about your comments being deleted.   PM me for the address if you don't already know it.



165308 tn?1323190145
by suzi-q, May 15, 2008
I am originally from Yonkers.  I still work there.  I now live in NJ.  Been here only 5 years.  Still a New Yorker at heart!  Always will be!!!!!

145992 tn?1341348674
by mami1323, May 15, 2008
suzi - it's hard to move away from NY, I don't think I could ever do it.  I do like getting away though because people in NY get on my nerves...lol.

Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 15, 2008
i live in central california.  i always wanted a new york accent lol.  people from ca never get on anyones nerves haha.  i didnt check did my statements disappear?  must be nice to have your lips stuck to the bottom of medhelps..........

270405 tn?1293039221
by houseofgirls, May 15, 2008
I am from Northern California, and have been told I have a "california accent"...what is that?!  I don't think there is a such thing!  I think one of your comments was deleted...it was one that was directed at someone.  

270405 tn?1293039221
by houseofgirls, May 15, 2008
Oh, I ment to ask...Andi, what kind of sushi do you make?  I sort of know how to make it, but have never taken the time to do it myself.

118225 tn?1278658540
by ziggysgrl0724, May 15, 2008
perty- you dont want a NY accent.....I was born and raised in NY and when I moved to the west coast I was like a circus attraction....everyone would make me say words and laugh at me, lol.  I am kinda in shock that one of my comments got deleted though....that has never happened to me before, lol.....i'm not like the rest of you "meanies" that offend people on a regular basis....I need a new hang out for sure, hahahahahaha

270405 tn?1293039221
by houseofgirls, May 15, 2008
Ziggy, I think that you only get deleted if you talk about a specific person.  At least thats what it looks like!

118225 tn?1278658540
by ziggysgrl0724, May 15, 2008
well, i didnt really talk about one person in particular....I just said that it was stupid to follow people around and report posts that dont concern you, just because you feel its your "duty"...that could be anyone really.....this will prob get deleted too....oh well...sorry people

93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 15, 2008
Yup, some of mine were removed, too.

Christians persecuted on MH, that is a hearty little laugh for me. No offense April, but that is a bit over the top. NO one was persecuting Christians, we were simply asking that it remain a medical forum, not a forum for religious sermons. The problem is that some people feel the need to act like babysitters to folks who have been here long enough to know how to play within the rules. Going against the view point of others is not a violation of the Terms and Conditions, despite some assertions that it is.

And Peek made it very clear she wanted this journal to be for everyone to comment in, whether they agree with her or not. In the spirit of that it would be silly to make it private. She isn't the one who altered her journal, it was someone who felt the need to report it because they, well, felt the need to report it.

I have reported posts to MH in the past when they were in clear violation of the Terms and Conditions. Posts such as pro-lifers condemning a woman who had a medically necessary abortion, calling her a murderer. Posts that are obviously trolls, posts with outright attacks, not disagreements. But I do not report a post because someone doesn't agree with me. I am an adult and you accept that folks don't always agree.



93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 15, 2008
I still have the remnants of a really cute southern accent i picked up while living in TX. When I get tired it comes out. I used to have guys from within the office and other branches call just to hear it. I was always told by random callers that I should have been charging for the calls ;-)

But for the most part I am back to my boring non-accented NW voice.

270405 tn?1293039221
by houseofgirls, May 15, 2008
Well, the main reason I didn't even bother to comment in the first place was because I just knew someone would report it.  I have an opinion about all this just like everyone else, but know that it would somehow be considered an "attack".  I guess I was right, since some peoples comments got deleted.  

118225 tn?1278658540
by ziggysgrl0724, May 15, 2008
the funny thing is though that the comments didnt get deleted until way after it all settled down, and the topic had changed......guess cant leave well enough alone, some people just have be the moral compass of medhelp and make sure sunshine and happiness reigns supreme at every turn of the road....this whole thing has just really bugged me, I was even telling DH about it tonight in the car....

270405 tn?1293039221
by houseofgirls, May 15, 2008
I agree, it was already over and now this.  I think that it just helps create more drama.  It bugs me too, and I didn't even have anything deleted.  I didn't feel like I could even say how I felt, because I just knew it would be deleted.  I have started reading more posts around here, and honestly I didn't realize how often religion is brought up.

203342 tn?1328740807
by April2, May 15, 2008
In case you all didn't realize, some 80% of Americans consider themselves Christian. That's probably why you see it a lot on here.
And Andi, yes this person did pm me and was being harassed and stalked by an atheist who was frightening her because this person was saying they'd make sure she left this site. This person was even threatening her. Yes, she reported this person but it did shake her up. Atheism is a form of religion, why do they allow that? I don't know if anybody remembered Barnbabe or not but she used to rant and rave about her atheistic viewpoints left and right. She also had some communistic viewpoints and would say things against America. That was tolerated for a long time. No, I never reported her. I've actually never reported anyone. I feel like we're all adults here and can handle things ourselves. Sometimes I actually had some good conversations with her but I always ended it when she'd get on her rampage. I'm sure I'll get badgered for this too because I know a lot of people liked her. I didn't have anything personal against her but it did get old to listen to her go on about how she wished she lived anywhere but America, etc., etc.
I really just wish we COULD all be tolerant of each other and respect each other's beliefs but I keep seeing over and over from a few of you that you're willing to tolerate just about anything but Christians. I think the least we could do is be polite even if we don't agree. Don't forget every person's religion tends to be a big part of who they are and we should respect that as we respect the whole person. If someone made a journal post that said it was for their Jewish friends or Buddist friends I would respect that and not barge in. I wouldn't go into their journal to try and change their way of thinking or start a fight. Please don't think I'm starting a fight here either, because I'm not. I'm just trying to ask everyone to just respect all people on here. Like I said, every person's religion is a part of who they are and we should just respect that.


172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 15, 2008
I'd go into a journal of someone saying they only wanted certain people to post, if only to bother them if I disagreed with the topic at hand.  And that goes for any group, race, religious preference, morality, or ethnicity.  I don't like being excluded.  
Particularly by people who purport to spread Gods love throughout the land, except perhaps to Oprah.  And she is irritating, I'll grant you that.  But I'll stand up for her, no problem.  

But that's me.  That's why I'm a mere mortal, and not anyone of importance.

And opinions are like a$$holes, anyway.  Everybody has one.  

270405 tn?1293039221
by houseofgirls, May 15, 2008
I think that journals can be kept private, so that only your friends can see it.  Why wasn't that journal kept private in the first place?  All of this could have been avoided.

93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 15, 2008
No one was trying to change a persons way of thinking and regardless of the faith, again this is not a forum for religious debate...it is a MEDICAL community. I don't get why that is so difficult to grasp.

And 80% consider is very subjective. But in case you forget, this is not MedHelp National, it is Medhelp INTERNATIONAL. Respect the fact that not everyone wants to read proclamations of your faith. Respect the fact that people look for answers REGARDLESS of their faith and oftentimes in spite of their faith.

Many of my friends on here are Christians, but that doesn't infiltrate their posts and is not an issue here. As you have seen, some have even commented on here stating that didn't feel it appropriate to bring religion into discussion here.

And the way you felt about Barnbabe is the way many feel about the tone of MH as of late. Why is it so difficult to keep it non-secular?  

Being stalked on MH by one person is a far cry from "religious persecution" Likely they had a personal issue that escalated. Hell, I have been harassed on here many times over the years. I report it if it violates the Terms and Conditions and it move on. I suppose I could cry foul and say they must have just hated SAHM's, afterall, that is who I am. Or maybe a mother of boys...again who I am. No, likely it was because I disagreed with them without the sunshine and bubbles they were looking for.

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 15, 2008
I didn't want, and will never want, my journal to be kept private.  What's the point of only communicating with like minded individuals?  Who learns from that?  Who grows from that?

Now, if someone ONLY wants their friends to comment, then yes, their journal should be for their friends only.

But again, that's not me.  I like hearing differing views.  I like a debate.  Sharpens my elderly mind.  And it exposes people to new and perhaps broader viewpoints.  

93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 15, 2008
House- I make a layered sushi. Tasty stuff, if you'd like I can email you the recipe. Much easier to make in the layered form, same stuff, just no rolling!

******bends over and moons peek******

Sorry, felt we needed a tension breaker ;-)

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 15, 2008
I just got done dragging that puppy's arse around the block.  His poor little legs were just flying.  Sucks being short.  

93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 15, 2008
Case and point, Peek and I actually don't agree on quite a few issues. Amazingly enough, we are still friends. And I absolutely love hearing her POV on things. She has inspired me to think about things on a deeper level.



93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 15, 2008
I feel the same way when I go shopping with CJ, his poor little legs take three steps to my one.

You are never on this late, did you borrow my mallet and whack-a-sasquatch?



270405 tn?1293039221
by houseofgirls, May 15, 2008
Peek, that is exactly what I was trying to say.  If you are going to post a journal, to all your christian friends to respond too, then why not keep it private?  If you don't want to hear other peoples points of view, then keep it private!  I also think that if you like having different people with different opinions commenting on your journal, then it should not be deleted by anyone other than the person who started the journal.

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 15, 2008
He's trying to change a tire on his dirt bike with his dead arm.  There's lots of swearing going on from the garage.  

I'm staying clear of it all.  

270405 tn?1293039221
by houseofgirls, May 15, 2008
Andi, yes send me the recipe please, when you get the chance. :)

Avatar universal
by Kim1989, May 15, 2008
and I missed it all!.....shame.

Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 15, 2008
barnbabe!!! great now im having flashbacks.

do the rules state we cant talk about others here?

ziggy you fit in well here ;)

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 15, 2008
LOL!  I fondly remember BB.  Man, that girl could start a war between the Pope and Mother Teresa with one hand tied behind her back.

Now THAT was good reading!  

93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 15, 2008
I think the problem lies with people taking generalities personally. I know I tend to do the same at times and when I get a moment of clarity, I settle down and realize that in most cases it isn't a personal thing at all. As with you April, this is not a personal attack on your character. If i made you feel it was, I am sorry.

Kim-you didn't miss a thing....wait a little while some other controversy will arise. You stay busy focusing on school and Dommy, us old cows have nothing important to say anyway ;-)

93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 15, 2008
I didn't read much of barnbabe. I guess I missed something fancy.

93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 15, 2008
****skips off to do some light reading****

Linguistic Anthropology test can wait....

Avatar universal
by Kim1989, May 15, 2008
nah thats alright ill pass. i dont specialize in religion and the agruments behind that. if its an arguement about teens ttc...o yeah ill be there. omg and im done. i sent them in! PHEW!

Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 16, 2008
my hubby will be home in a matter of just over a week.  i wont be on as much for a bit (wink wink nudge nudge).

i need opinions.  i have bloated up 5 pounds overnight!!! i can feel it in my feet, ick i hate water retention.  i have been eating lots of salad, but also seems like meat makes me do that.  anyone ever try sassy water? its what is suggested for flat bellies, it helps with bloating.  

8.5 cups water
1tsp grated ginger
1 med cucumber
1 med lemon
12 spearmint leaves
refrigerate overnight and strain and drink over the next day.


i gotsta get my thin on and fast so i look good for baby daddy!!!


93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 16, 2008
What did I miss? I was a little *busy* not taking my test ;-)

Decrease the salt, increase the water, and pee, pee, pee.

The tea doesn't seem like it could hurt, let me know how it goes.

Kim-Glad you got them sent off. When will you hear? Have you applied for Financial Aid?

Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 16, 2008
ive been trying to stay away from salt but the pork i ate was salty as can be, darn it.

bought huggies diapers today (good deal) and they have box tops.  if you have school age kids, cut out all box tops and save them (check out the exp date) because schools will have contests to raise money.  usually the class with the most gets a subway lunch or something cool like that.  

its predicted to be 102* on sunday,, hmmm which friends have pools? lol

me and addison have been taking a bath together at night and she loves to kick the water its so cute!!!

93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 16, 2008
We are in for record heat tomorrow and Saturday, poor kids will melt at the game! I bought otter pops for them tonight as it was pretty toasty and the geniuses at the league thought that nearly black shirts and black pants were a good idea. I am glad I thought ahead and bought a 5 gallon water dispenser for the team, that thing was almost emptied within the hour!

Dang it, I have got to get this test done.

Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 16, 2008
black, ya not a great choice in the sun.  well my bed is calling me, im suddenly hungry and must fight it!  

good luck on the test!

93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 16, 2008
I just ate 2 homemade oatmeal raisin walnut cookies. Tasty stuff!!

368690 tn?1284360853
by katebud, May 16, 2008
May I talk?  I don't like under-baked cookies either!  :D  although I must love burnt granola... :(  Does anyone know how to make actual bars of granola w/o burning it?  Or better yet, does anyone know how to make raw food bars (I'm on this strange kick of not wanting to cook my raw honey, b/c it kills most of the helpful enzymes or something...)  
Almost random and off the subject...but I liked reading this journal post, it's given me a lot to meditate on (in the religious aspects of it).  Also, the pizza bagel bites are causing me to daydream...

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, May 16, 2008
Could you try using parchment paper to see if you can make them without burning?  Lots of people swear by that.  



93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 16, 2008
Oh, above, "case AND point" should have been "case IN point" I totally should have known better than to try and type while watching my late start ER. Pickles!



93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 16, 2008
I saw on Good Eats (Alton Brown's show on the Food Network) that he lowers the temp to 300 degrees and bakes for 20 minutes. He used a glass baking pan and it seems he always uses parchment paper.

368690 tn?1284360853
by katebud, May 16, 2008
oooh, parchment paper!  Ok, dumb question, but does it go underneath the granola mixture or on top?  :P  Thank you so much for the suggestions!

93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 16, 2008
Under, it is an awesome non-stick medium and really does help prevent burning.



13167 tn?1327197724
by RockRose, May 17, 2008
So,  any news on the Book Club?  I'd love to be in a book club.  Last couple books I've read have been so horrible,  and depressing - although very well written.  So.  Start with ANYTHING except A Fine Balance or The Memory Keepers Daughter,  and I'm there!    Of,  if anyone wants to discuss A Fine Balance - in a group therapy after reading that - maybe I'd feel better about the whole thing.

; D

150937 tn?1235947480
by surprisebaby, May 17, 2008
This is very interesting....those who PREACH the most about MARRIAGE BEFORE BABIES on this site, (which is a RELIGIOUS ACT and makes no difference in MY OPINION whether someone will make a good parent or not) are upset because of someone's RELIGIOUS PREACHING...if you don't like it, don't read it!!!

13167 tn?1327197724
by RockRose, May 17, 2008
Marriage has nothing to do with religion,  although many people choose to encorporate their religion into their marriages by celebrating them in churches.  

Marriage is a civil contract,  between a two adults who stand up in front of the public and promise,  through a binding civil contract that is enforceable in the courts,  to love,  honor and cherish,  to take care of each other in sickness and in health,  wealth and poverty,  and not have sex with anyone else as long as both are living.

That's a pretty powerful commitment!

And I'm probably the biggest proponent of marriage before children,  because I think people who shrink from committing to another adult have no business making the bigger,  more life-changing committment of becoming a parent.

Nothing works out perfectly and mistakes happen and sometimes intentions change,  but to start out with the full intent of staying together is necessary,  in my opinion,  before purposely trying to bring another very dependent person into the world.

And that has nothing at all to do with Christianity.  it's about providing a home for a child,  and a binding civil contract.

93532 tn?1349374050
by AndiJ78, May 17, 2008
Thank you, Rock for saying exactly what I was going to say.

Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 17, 2008
peek you are pulling them out from under the rocks now lol. sb you have been off the mh trail for some time!

456039 tn?1302663748
by Crysi, May 17, 2008
omg.. this is the most ridiculously long journal comment pages. LoL.

I am just going to throw in here, that when I joined this forum it was for an open minded, non-judgmental response, and I don't want to hear what peoples religion dictates (ie no sex before marriage etc) because I do not hold that view, personally if you think I'm too young for sex etc then skip my post and move on to someone else.


Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 17, 2008
um, crysi?  you just brought up young people having sex, are you wanting us to start THAT debate now?  haha

150937 tn?1235947480
by surprisebaby, May 17, 2008
I am still here...I just have kept my opinions to myself....until now....I am on here at least once a day!!!!  
Rock rose and Andi...
You see....it's always the RIGHT way by the two of you (to be married)  That's great, but it is only your opinions and you constantly belittle those who are not married prior to babies making them out to be UNFIT parents because they aren't married, so therefore, they aren't ready to be a parent if they aren't ready to be married.
  What is wrong with someone expressing their opinion about religion.  you express your opinions on marriage and babies all the time....I am actually not very religious at all.  I don't go to church, I drink, I swear....I don't know that I actually believe there is a "GOD" per say, but I do believe there is something....Don't kid yourself, there are very few of us who never had SEX before they were married...and no birth control method is 100%, so that put us all at risk of becoming unwed parents.

My cousin was an example of that one.  She got pregnant (On the pill).  She was with her boyfriend for 4 years (they were still in highschool though)  They did not run off and get married....two wrongs don't make a right.  They stuck together though...committed to each other as ANY married couple and after a few years, they decided that they would get married because they loved each other, not because it was a SHOT GUN wedding!!!  I am very proud of her for that decision.  

As for quoting bible scriptures etc....If you don't like it, don't read it!  Easy as that!


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by RockRose, May 18, 2008
Surprise baby,  you're not getting this at all.

I wouldn't advise a young woman to marry a man she hasn't had sex with.  I've said that many times.  

What I AM adverse to,  is teenagers who are trying desperately to get pregnant with no commitment,  and no means to support herself or her baby.

You don't get it,  Suprisebaby,  because you don't want to get it.  

It's not about religion,  it's about being able to support a baby.

But you want to make it something else.  God help us,  in the next 100 years,  if people don't get it's not about religion,  it's about being able to support the next generation psychologically,  socially,  and economically.  Because the older generations can't keep putting funding into people who purposely get pregnant with no possibilty of funding their children by themselves.  It can't keep happening.  



Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 18, 2008
i think we should all have more kids, quit our jobs, so everyone can get welfare, then it will run out, and everyone will be forced to make their own way.  i dont want to fight about public asst, i know its needed for many, and abused by some.

rock i couldnt have agreed more with you than if i had said it myself

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by surprisebaby, May 18, 2008
I agree with what you said too....it isn't about religion.   BUT....my point was how you constantly state your beliefs about marriage and babies...YOU ALWAYS have to jam down someone's throat marriage before babies...to each their own. WHy is it ok for you to voice your "BELIEFS" and someone does not have the right to voice their "BELIEFS".  I just skim over your comments and roll my eyes everytime I see you belittling someone else.   Not everyone has those same beliefs, as with Religion. (I actually wanted to be married before babies, but that's JUST  me....not for others, and I would NEVER tell someone who wanted a baby...get married first!  That is none of my business! and it is certainly NONE of yours! and it doesn't make anyone a better parent financially, mentally or emotionally if they are married.  If you are in a committed relationship and want a baby, a piece of paper won't change your emotional, financial, or physical well being.)  I believe you don't understand what I was saying because you don't want to!  

When people come knocking on my door to tell me about how the world is going to come to an end, and God will save me...they are lucky if I don't slam the door in their face....but on here...all I have to do is stop reading it! THAT's What I was saying...

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by Happy2girls, May 18, 2008
Suprisebaby...so, your saying if your daughter comes to you and decides she wants to have babies without the benefit of marriage that you're okay with that?  

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by AndiJ78, May 18, 2008
It is not about the issue at hand, it is about SB wanting to start a fight because that is what she does. Not biting.

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by surprisebaby, May 18, 2008
as long as she is in a committed relationship....I am 100% fine with that.  Marriage is a committed relationship...but so is what I was in prior to saying "I DO".   How can you sit there and tell me that I am wrong.  This is exactly how I was brought up...whatever makes me happy .. makes my family happy!!!  
If she has an oops pregnancy...I will still support my daughters decision ... no matter what it is!!! It will be her decision.. (Keep it, Abort it, Adoption) But let's not even start that topic!!!  

Everything is circumstantial...To paint everyone with ONE BRUSH that says "If you aren't married, you aren't in a committed relationship" is complete garbage.  I have several friends who are not married, but they are more committed than some of my married friends.  Cheating does not stop because of marriage.   Marriage does not mean FINANCIAL success either.  I have rich and poor married friends, as well as not married friends.  

Anyways, you seemed to miss my point as well.  These ladies have been bashing their beliefs to others and because one member chose to speak her religious beliefs...she is in the wrong and is reminded that this is a MEDICAL FORUM...yet it is ok for them to constantly belittle others for non medical issues! (ex. Marriage before babies is not MEDICAL advise.)  I thought it was rather interesting ... that is all.




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by surprisebaby, May 18, 2008
ANDIJ...you know what I think of you!

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by surprisebaby, May 18, 2008
so I am glad you aren't biting...

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by Crysi, May 18, 2008
I am 19, and with my fiance for 4.5 years. I am not a big believer in marriage so does that mean I can never have children? I just never felt that I need a piece of paper to  tell me that I love someone, and that we are "together". And should I ever get married it will be a nondenominational wedding, so does that make it lesser then a traditional marriage?

I work more then full time (I often work 16+ hours day 7 days straight) and my fiance in a couple months will be done nursing. (In Canada nurses make a lot of money) Every situation is different, that is why personal opinions should be left out, for the most part, because you don't know anyone on this forum personally and don't know what there abilities are or are not (financially, etc)

**I added in my financial aspects because I often hear about how young women who are going to get pregnant with no way to financially provide for the child just to show that some of us could**





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by AndiJ78, May 18, 2008
Have a blessed day...

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by surprisebaby, May 18, 2008
you have such a lovely family...

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by AndiJ78, May 18, 2008
Why, thank you. I think so myself.

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by surprisebaby, May 18, 2008
you are oh so welcome sweetie!

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by AndiJ78, May 18, 2008
You are such a peach ;-) It has been so nice, so very, very nice, to see you again.

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by surprisebaby, May 18, 2008
Thanks for making me feel so welcome...you always have just the right thing to say!

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by AndiJ78, May 18, 2008
I do try my best.

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by peekawho, May 18, 2008
Marriage is not quite the same thing.  I do believe that two people should be in a committed relationship before having children, and I'll tell people that if I'm asked, or if a poster is seeking opinions out about it.  However, I won't ever address a journal entry to "my married friends only".   Marriage affords a woman a lot of legal and financial benefits, but certainly it is not necessary.  Only wise.  
If people choose to  not do it (and many choose not to so they may continue to receive government assistance here in the US), thats their decision.  

On the original journal post that inspired all this, a prominent public figure was questioned about her beliefs, and the journal was intended for certain religious views only to comment.  The public figure in question was considered to be "wrong" and misled due to her views, and a YouTube link was published.  There was NOTHING about marriage in either the journal entry that inspired all this, nor was there in my journal.

I'll tolerate only so much.  You made your point, it was a welcome viewpoint for all, and now YOU'RE inappropriately making remarks that are intended to be hurtful, and are not contributing to the discussion any longer.




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by peekawho, May 18, 2008
Crysi,
Thanks for your views!  Its nice to hear that you are doing so well.  Nursing, by the way, is a very well paid profession even here in the US.  

Its good that your fiancee is going to get a well paying job.  If you do choose to have children, unfortunately those 16 hour days/7 days a week paychecks, at least for you, will be gone.  But I trust you have the resources to plan children if you so desire, even with the loss of your income.  

Just protect yourself for the future, that's all I'm saying.  Relationships have a way of ending.  And it would be bad to have a child, no job (b/c you won't be able to work full time again for some time), and then have limited resources.  





Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 18, 2008
i wish my relationship with junk food would end.

i wish i could stop time and keep my kids this age for a bit longer.

i wish i could speed up time to get dh home.

i wish i had a genie in a bottle that could grant me more wishes!

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by AndiJ78, May 18, 2008
I wish I had group members in my Geologic Hazards class that pulled their own weight so I didn't have to double my workload tonight.

I wish my essay for Linguistic Anthropology due tomorrow was done to a 4.0 standard (long night ahead, better get some coffee, PK)

I wish that my heart didn't ache so much for weaning my last baby.



Avatar universal
by pertykitty, May 18, 2008
coffee?? it was 102* today, not unless its iced!

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by AndiJ78, May 19, 2008
I drank coffee today, granted is was a little cooler outside than 102 ;-)

Didn't get the essay started yet, but got the PP done. If anyone needs to know anything about Mt Etna in Sicily, I am your woman.

Now I must decide, continue to kill myself tonight to get the essay started or go to sleep? Essay is due in less than 24 hours. And I have coursework in another class due tomorrow night. Not quite as time consuming as the essay.



Avatar universal
by Irishgal2, May 19, 2008
Hello Folks, just joined the journal. It's a long time since I see so many women with their knickers in a twist. On a serious note, I do believe religion and politics are not for general discuss unless everyone in advance is signed up to those topics and willing to discuss.  This was obviously not the case. God has been bad and good to me.  He gave me Breast Cancer at 39 but thankfully I was caught early.  Some days God is my friend and then other days I most certainly did not want to hear his name. Everyone is on this web site for different reasons, some more tragic than others, so spouting about religion and God may not be the best medicine for people.  I always felt a good ear and a shoulder to cry on works best.

On a personal note I do not care what religion people are of if they even have a religion as long as they are good people.  

I only wish it were 102 degrees here in Ireland.  It is a miserable 15 degrees and starting to rain, we don't get summer worth talking about. Still the winters are not too bad either.  So enjoy your coffee warm or iced, what ever takes your fancy.



Avatar universal
by Irishgal2, May 19, 2008
Just read the latest thread, so I was far back with my last post.

I believe that a child is a wonderful gift.  I have two boys aged 5 and 3 and cannot imagine my life without them.  I PERSONALLY waiting until I had met the right person and I PERSONALLY wanted to get married first before having children.  However my husband's sister and partner have done things differently. They are in a loving committed relationship for the past 15 years and now have 2 children.  They do not want to get married.  My brother and his wife were trying for a baby without lucky. They tried IVF and have been blessed with a beautiful baby boy.

My comment is that all these children are loved and special, yet all circumstances differed slightly.  The most important thing for me was that we were all mature adults with financial security to a differing degree who made a conscious decision to bring a new life into the world.  We were ready and prepared for the commitment of raising a child.

In life, things do not always go to plan.  Some young girls get pregnant and for some they mature quickly and become great moms and for other's, well the child suffers.  There are no guarantees in life, we never know how things will pan out for us.  Sure are their married couples who have children and neglect and abuse them? I do not think we should make generalisations, we should review on a case by case basis.  I personally am glad that I did not have a baby when I was younger.  Having said that I know I would still have been a good mother, matured quicker and still had the support and love of my family. Although my parents were have been disappointed in me as they are Roman Catholic's with a strong faith, but I think more so, the disappointment would have been for me for tying myself and restricting myself too young

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by mami1323, May 19, 2008
I can't believe this is still going...I'm in shock.  peek - see what you started...lol.

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by have 2 kids, May 19, 2008
Looks like someone decided to beat a dead horse again........

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by mami1323, May 19, 2008
I guess so...can't we let the arguing die....let's go back to talking about the weather and about uncooked cookies.

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by peekawho, May 19, 2008
And puppies!  And sunshine!  



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by GNicole, May 19, 2008
Send the sunshine and warm weather this way! It is May 19th right and not March 19th? You wouldn't know it by going outside here!

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by peekawho, May 19, 2008
We're roasting here in SoCal.  Close to 100 every day for the past few days.



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by mami1323, May 19, 2008
I know, but I heard that this weekend is going to be beautiful.

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by GNicole, May 19, 2008
I hope this weekend is beautiful!! We sure could use some sunshine!! We went to Calif. when I was 2 months preggo and it was 110 degrees-It was so hot and I was so constipated, not a fun combo!! haha

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by have 2 kids, May 19, 2008
We are at 70 today.  

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by mami1323, May 19, 2008
Not a fun combo at all...lol.

You're lucky, it's like 55 here but with the wind it feels cooler.  Plus, it's drizzling and the sun keeps going in and out.  Yuck.

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by GNicole, May 19, 2008
Mami-same weather here today! YucK! :(

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by girliegrl1723, May 19, 2008
i have that weather here too girls and it stinks! its like the past few days the weather can't decide what it wants to do. i don't even know how to dress in the morning anymore, or how to dress edward!

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by mami1323, May 19, 2008
It's almost June and the weather is horrible.  Let's just hope for a great summer.

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by GNicole, May 19, 2008
I know what you mean-hopefully it will get better soon!! I am running out of clothes that fit Avery. Tons of new Summer clothes but not warm enough to wear them yet! :(

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by mami1323, May 19, 2008
Uh, I know what you mean.  I refuse to buy Jayden new sneakers because of the summer so I'm squeezing his feet into his sneakers.  Poor guy.

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by girliegrl1723, May 19, 2008
i bought edward new sandals on saturday that are sooo cute, but if i put them on him today, his little toes would freeze. they are the first shoes i have bought that are not from stride rite and im surprised they actaully fit. his little feet are so fat. haha.

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by mami1323, May 19, 2008
Jayden has fat feet to.  Maybe it's a boy thing...haha.

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by girliegrl1723, May 19, 2008
yep. edwards feet are two different sizes, one is a 5 1/2 the other is a 6 and they are both wide. stride rite shoes once every few weeks are not cheap! i got him a pair of sneakers there on saturday (adorable nikes) and today, they are already dirty! ugh. i can't imagine once he gets older. he is going to love to splash in puddles too - i can feel it. haha.

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by mami1323, May 19, 2008
Yep, you will probably have to go through sneakers once a week...lol.

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by catfyre34, Aug 26, 2008
I have found that they people who get most defensive about other people's religious viewpoints are the ones who aren't all that strong in their convictions and beliefs in the first place. That is, if someone isn't going "Well, your religion does this, this, and this so it *****." lol. They are usually blind followers who don't have their own opinions or ability to believe in something that the majority do not.

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