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Tramadol & Ultram Recovery Room Part 13

Jul 23, 2009 - 197 comments
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Hi Tramadol Warriors,

Welcome to Part 13!

We're so happy to see you!

Come on in and get comfy.

Love and Healing,
Emily


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895630 tn?1273803653
by 12Stepper, Jul 23, 2009
What a sweet thing to say, iontheprize, "really nice to walk the path with you" too. In case some of you missed the last thread, that phrase was meant for us all, I believe. I have found so much comfort in this site. We have really formed a strong center of healing and recovery. Thank you Emily for having the courage to share and get this place going. The miracle is that it really can be a good night despite tramadol and thanks to Tramadol Warriors. Plus a pat on the back to ourselves who have been able to put another day, another thought, between us and the dragon drug.

974946 tn?1248075239
by Bulldemon, Jul 24, 2009
ROFL yah about that messing up the pronoun thing I did that a few times today lol. Trying to say a normal phrase turned into a tongue twister lol , Its funny I thought it was just me lol. weee second one to post, still on my 6th day things are going ok, cant wait to be 100% :)


God bless,
Brandon

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Jul 24, 2009
I'm quietly lurking tonight.  More this weekend I hope.  fred

Avatar universal
by gettinglifeback, Jul 24, 2009
hmmm, what is is about 3 a.m. that gets me? I really want to sleep.  Man, my "pissy Missy" name is going to stick, I was in a horrible mood last night, by time my husband returned from work I was yelling at him because...he wanted to dig up a tree..why do you ask is that so important?  Not sure, hope you could tell me..LOL. I was just hoping by now (day 22ish) that I would be getting better control/a better idea of my emotional state, don't get me wrong, I have come a long way, but just having issues with being so aggitated.My soreness from my special outing to the batting cage is still there more than I want but better than Wed.   Also, we did spend the majority of the morning/afternoon at Children's hosp. at a GI appointment for our 8 y/o (an appointment we have been waiting for for 4 months) he will be having some testing done that won't be pleasant for him (I couldn't even get the blood work done yesterday he was so upset d/t a huge fear of needles) so this is not going to be fun. Also, the testing they want is to check further for a disease they insisted they ruled out at age 2 1/2....if it turns out this poor boy has suffered for 6 years with his "issues" because they misdiagnosed him back then I might lose it....I might force them to take Tramadol or something.LOL  So, just a little bummed here..probably also why I am up in the middlle of the night again. Don't get me wrong, things could be so much worse for him, me,us and I have that in perspective, but just having your child suffer isn't an easy thought. Ok, thanks for letting me vent.
Missy

974630 tn?1248196062
by iontheprize, Jul 24, 2009
Funny stuff I have to share even though I am running late for work!  

Yesterday morning I filled my dog's water dish and walked right out of the kitchen with it.  I was wandering around the dining room and and then the living room with the strong sense that I needed to do something; couldn't remember.  When I gave up and headed for the stairs, I also went to take a sip of my coffee.  It was then that I realized that I was holding my dog's water dish; just walkin' around with dog water.  LOL!  

I one-uped that today.  I was really proud of myself that it didn't take 5 trips to the kitchen to remember to replace his water.  However, instead of turning on the faucet, I started to pour COFFEEE IN THE WATER DISH!  I laughed so hard.  Today may include lots-o-laughs at my ever-present fog.  Happy Friday all; let's get another day under our belt :)

jessica

701000 tn?1231964233
by 1113, Jul 24, 2009
so i remember reading about fred's first couple of days into withdrawal and that he went to a wedding and cried a little too much.  so a friend of mine just sent me this link about the greatest wedding intro ever and I thought it was soo cool that i got teary eyed.  I decided to share this with my t/former-t friends

701000 tn?1231964233
by 1113, Jul 24, 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-94JhLEiN0  

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jul 24, 2009
Getting Life Back ... "Might force them to take Tramadol" .. Oh my god so funny. I love a little dark humor. I hope your little one will be ok.

Jessica I am picturing you walking around with a big ole dog water dish ... oh man. So funny. I'm sorry. Coffee for the dog huh? I have a big ole cat named Blue and when he was a kitten he used to drink my coffee when I walked outta the room. Then he'd go double kitten nit

(((12Stepper))))

KC you wrote me the kindest letter about Klonopin/Benzo withdrawal and I am so sorry it has taken me so long to answer your questions. I've been pretty ... um ... missing the words. Word Hungry?

Anyhow, it's been over three months. You were so adorable, putting everything I have gone thru in the last year into perspective. A little depressing to see "The Bad Year" all in black and white like that. Yes, two big ole car accidents. Lots of drugs. Tramadol. Stupid Tramadol. What a little as$hat that drug is.

I have good days. Good. Days. Full Days of goodness without ceasing. It was April 13th that I was done with the long slow Klonopin taper which took 6 months. I was on and off very sick during the taper. I had really typical symptoms. It was extreme but no, I never lost control of my life. i didn't lose my business. In fact in the last couple of months, I have managed to pull it back together somewhat. I hate even saying that because the withdrawal from Klonopin/Benzo has made me unreasonably fearful. Like; Hallucinations of Disaster.

I am still occasional completely furious. Benzo rage. I think it will slowly vanish. But yes, it is a function of the GABA levels being off. I find that fragrance is one of the only things that will calm me down. Which makes sense because we're dealing with the Limbic Lobe. Rage reaction and olfaction aka sense of smell are interlinked. So; while supplements and all my old tricks that I used liberally during Tramadol withdrawal will not work for me in Benzo w/d ... the perfume world is now wide open to me. I literally can smell things now that I could not at all before.

The expense of that "skill" is my vision is all crazy. I was seeing many many things that were NOT there at all during the taper and even into month 2 and 3. Hallucinations yes. Walls breathing. Walls sweating. People who were NOT there. So creepy. I haven't had those symptoms for some time.

What I do have is the feeling that I am walking on a boat. Or that someone turned up Gravity. Heaviness and muscle pain. It's occasionally very bad. I don't have depersonalization or de realization and I am not walking around or sleeping in a parka anymore.

Healing is occurring. It's just so much slower than I want it to be. It gets much worse kC if I get hard on myself. My focus is off, but when I get hard on myself ... I swear it's ridiculous. It's so annoying. Plus I am annoyed by my annoyance. You can see what a viscous circle it is.

I was reading the last thread and some sweet soul was talking about waking up during Tramadol withdrawal and literally feeling like they were going to die. Yes. Tramadol withdrawal does that, in spades.

Klonopin withdrawal is much more like ... being undead. Walking around and having no life force. No emotions. Not able to even cry even though it hurts. SO you were writing KC about lingering depression, at 2.5 months out. Yes, it got very bad there for awhile. Because the tapering (you took it faster than i did ... so good for you ... I predict your total recovery time will be less than mine. Despite what the Benzo sites say, I think a faster taper is better overall ... none of it is comfortable anyhow!) is exhausting and you feel awful, it is predictable that you'd get depressive. Of course you;re depressed, this is horribly depressing! What about it is NOT depressing? *searches* Yeah .. um .. it's all depressing.

And yes, the rage. The rage is fast, hot, scary, out of control. I don't have any fear that I'll act in rage. But the occurrence of it is ... annoying. It's still here, but not at all as bad as it was even a month ago.

The Benzo sites are all terrifying in my opinion.  

You were asking about Anxiety and if I still have it. I haven't had a panic attack in ... 2 or 3 months. I forget. This is because the Klonopin reached withdrawal tolerance quickly and the drug itself started to CAUSE me panic attacks. Not to mention that little buttock-kisser Tramadol. So no panic attacks. Mild anxiety occasionally to the point that I will order the Insitol Michelle has talked about.

Insomnia is leaving. I have a very strange occurrence. I wake up at 5:30 to 6:30 am no matter what. It will not matter when I fell asleep. I wake up like "Pop Hi I am awake" And The morning DREAD is mainly gone KC. But I dread the dread! LOL. Ahhh drugssssssss SO ... I get outta bed. I am not sleeping enough, but I am also not NOT sleeping. So I am healing. It would be lovely if i could get more sleep, but no.

I take a herb combo, passionflower/hops/valerian and it does help me get to sleep. In the last month I only remember waking up early and not being able to sleep again maybbbeee twice. Maybe.

All the Benzo sites are discouraging. I stay off there as much as I can. The fact is that only after 6 months with continued symptoms would any of this be considered Post Acute Withdrawal syndrome AKA PAWS.

I'm not waking up in the middle of the night ... not like Tramadol ... Tramadol was horrible. Klonopin which I was on to decrease the Tramadol side effects is also terrible. Just ... different brands of terrible!! Have faith KC, only a week or two left of ickiness as far as I can tell! I hope this helps!

Love and healing,
Emily

738790 tn?1377724594
by KC67, Jul 24, 2009
Emily,
Your post could not have come at a more perfect time.  I am typing this from the hospital - my little boy had to have bladder surgery yesterday to prevent further damage to his kidneys.  I am happy to say that he is doing great and should be able to come home in the next few days.  However, I am a wreck.

The normal crazy-with-worry emotions that come when a loved one has to endure pain is there but then to top it off, the lingering benzo withdrawal anger/depression/anxiety just makes things even more intense.

It was so GOOD to hear that your benzo withdrawal symptoms are beginning to ease up.

I need HOPE right now and you gave it to me.

Just like everyone on this site. We all need to go someplace "where everybody knows your name" as the "Cheers" song says.  But in our case,we need a place to come where others KNOW our suffering and can offer support with the hope that things really DO get better.

I too am beginning to notice that certain benzo withdrawal symptoms seem to be lessening.  Oh how I wish recovery could be quicker, but it just can't.  In the meantime, it is just so comforting to know that I'm not alone.  Thank you for sharing everything in your above post, Emily.  ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Emily )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Sincerely with hope and love,
KC
(over 180+days Tram-free, almost 3 mos. benz-free)

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Jul 25, 2009
Calling all Pet Lovers:  As some of you know we Iost our sweet kitten, Kiggy seven weeks ago.  So I decided to construct a memorial in our yard to HONOR her memory as well as the memories of two other "mules" who have passed on over the last few years at Fred Estates.  

My project began relatively simply and it kept growing - motivated by my loss.  Every time I had another hair brained idea, Mrs. Fred just smiled and sort of rolled her eyes.  But she allowed me to follow my heart's desire to make what I think is a one of a kind, right fitting tribute to my beloved Kiggy.    

At last it is finished.  I have posted some pictures of the memorial on my PROFILE page for anyone who is interested.  

It's been said that 98% of lawyers give the entire law profession a bad name.  :)   But even mean spirited attorneys have a sensative side once in a while.  

There are so MANY good people gathered here.  I have a sense of gratitude for not only for finding this place, but for the people I have met along the way here, who, in big and small ways, touch me with your words more than you will ever know.

Some may wonder why a guy like me hangs around this place months after being free from this drug.   It's simple really.  Hanging out with you all get's me outside of my self.  Seeing lives changed here helps me focus on something beside my self.  

1113, Yup, coming off tramadol SURELY releases feelings, tears, and moods that many of us had bottled up side the FOG zone for too long.  I will always leave the technical explanations as to  how this terrible drug works on our brain receptors and what occurs inside us as the drug leaves our bodies.  ALL I know is that this is ONE powerful drug, that I took with reckless abandon for years, praying it would do it's worst to me for years.  So yes, it seems reasonable to this lay person, that all kinds of things are "damaged" in that process of killing our receptors for years on end.  Yes, I cried easily on day five of this drug over NOTHING really.  I plan to check out the link that you provided, as soon as I wrap up here.  

I am coming up on eight months off this drug.  Things seem to have evened out for me and I am finally fred again.

That was all I really wanted when I first arrived here.  To get the life back that tramadol had slowly stolen from me over the years.  To care again.  To feel again.  To listen and understand again.  To not live under the control of a drug that ruled my life.

Some times a new person will venture here and raise the question, "what's so terrible about tramadol?"   Sadly, we will never know the fullness of the answer to that question - until we become finally free of this drug and can gain some prospective.  

I'm not going anywhere any time soon.  You guys get me outside of the mad man who lives inside me.  For that I continue to be grateful.

Peace,

fred



Avatar universal
by mrcrump, Jul 25, 2009
Missy, I wanted to pop in and say that I am so sorry you have to endure that stress regarding your sons mystery diagnosis. How is your boy handling it?  I can imagine he is scared and confused. Poor little guy. I am thinking of you both today. Your son will be fine. I just can't imagine going through Tram w/d then adding something like that to the top of it. As for yelling at your husband, maybe he shouldn't have tried to dig up a tree at that time!! lol. That's my reasoning, but no, I'm sure he is used to it, and understands.
  As for your sleeping issue, I can relate (as usual) I was up almost all night. Whenever something happens no matter how small, like knowing I have to pay a bill or make a call the next day, it completely sets off my sleep. It sucks so bad. So I've been up since eight am this morning, I was sick of laying there. Now I'm watching Dirty Dancing, trying to get my head straight for this oh so fine saturday!!   Anyways, I'm hoping for the best. Talk to you soon.   Love, KS

Avatar universal
by mrcrump, Jul 25, 2009
Fred, it's about time!! We have all missed your words of wisdom around here. Sounds like you were busy with important matters. I never thought of making a memorial shrine to my "lost" loved pets. Great idea. I was actually thinking about getting my chihuahua stuffed when he dies. Weird right?? I'll have to put him in the closet when friends come over, it might creep them out!  : )   Well it's good to hear that you are finding a good release.
  Lastly, lawyers may have a bad rep. but underneath they are ALL human. You are one of the good guys for sure.  Love,KS

Avatar universal
by onemoretry48, Jul 25, 2009
Gut Rot to me is when I have "less than desirable" plumbing. When I took Tramadol I was always consuming Tums, Rolaids, everything I could get my hands on. I had to pee almost 20 times a day.

So it really added up $$$$$, the monthly $125 (or so) pills, the substances to help with the side-effects of the pills.

Anyway-the only thing new with me is that yesterday I found one pill, sitting in a drawer. It took my breath away, WOW, so here is how I dealt with it.

Picked up the pill.
Stood in silence for sometime.
Thought "Boy I could use a little energy boost today". It's just one pill and I would not take anymore because they aren't here.
Realized that I would be very dissapointed in MYSELF the next day, as in "what a failure you are Jules".
Remembered the HORRIBLE Withdrawal I went through some 45 days ago
Became ANGRYat the pill.
Walked over to the sink and pushed it down the drain.

Today I'm so happy it went down like that.

Jules



974630 tn?1248196062
by iontheprize, Jul 25, 2009
Hello all.  Yesterday was my first FULL day of feeling good.  I think I'm a few days behind Jules around 42 or so.  Damn, takes long enough and I'm always anxious about feeling the pain or the fever in the moments to come.  

I read a lot of posts yesterday that had me realizing so much about myself.  My head spun a bit.  So, I wanted to share the stuff I've realized after processing all of what I read:

I had dizziness too.  Combine that with lack of energy, I wound up on the floor at a friend's house and couldn't even get up for a few minutes (during w/d).  My eyes were really sensitive to light for a few weeks.  I had anxiety attacks that woke me up in my sleep while on the stuff.  I woke up with "morning dread" almost every morning.  No matter the day; no matter the tasks at hand.  It didn't help if I had a tramadol hangover.  My sense of smell has always been acute, but lately I think I could serve on a K-9 unit.  Driving me crazy!  The worst was entering a bathroom at work and going into a gagging fit nearly in front of the woman that caused it.  

Fred's story of Ivan really spoke to me.   Fred recently wrote, "I am finally Fred again" and another person wrote about being symptom free and added "It is over."  WOW.  That is inspiring and emotionally moving.  Thank you and I'm so happy for any of you finding the moments of joy or of rediscovery on anything.  Moment by moment....  For me, I think the difficulty of feeling overwhelmed or sad is rewarded with that feeling of joy that I haven't felt in some time.  True joy.  

It's so humbling so know that others are going through all of this while realizing pregnancy, going through relationship changes, supporting family that suffers, etc.  Great example of it's not ever going to be a perfectly easy day or time to walk into the sunset without a backpack of pills.  My own life is taking some difficult turns and I know when it all goes down that I will think of all of you who did it with great courage, faith, and grace.

~jessica

Avatar universal
by 43panther, Jul 25, 2009
I am so sorry to all of us that have had to go through this.  I am a 10 year abuser of Ulram/Tramadol.  My using was brought on by my own addictive personality.  You know the if 1 is good 5 is better  type.  I use to see guys with there kids and wonder if he or anyone else had this burden.  after getting busted for illeagaly obtaining from my Dr. and the internet, my use was over.  I had tried so many times, only to fall and take even more.  I was taking 30 to 50, 50mg. tabs a day.  I spent so much money and lied to everyone I loved.  I was lucky, to date I have lost only stuff, my wife and family have supported and have helped in my getting off this "nonaddictive drug".  I am so thankfull for being busted that I actually thanked the detective you arrested me.   I sought out help and wound up in narco-anon.  Yea, I no, very corny.  But I again am so thankfull that God led me there.  I was put on a drug called Suboxone.  It blocks the opiate receptors, but keeps you feeling sane through the heavy w/d.  I do battle with extreme tiredness, but I can function throughout the day.  I truly thought the only way I would be free of this drug was going to be death.  This drug has taken so much from me and I know I have a long road ahead, but just being able to feel that I have a fighting chance is so rewarding.  I am 49 years old and now have a two week old grandson.  He IS going to know the real me.  I am not totally sure who that will be but he has got to be better that the stoned numb drug addict I was.  If anyone is interested in the Suboxone program, I will keep you posted.  Again I am new to it so I am not trying to act like I know everying about it.  But so far it has made it barable.  I must say that one thing I have learned is not to cold turkey this drug if it has been abused as I have.  I have been told it's a wonder I didn't have a seizure.  That is how my Dr. said that most Ultrm/ Tramadol abusers are brought into the emergency room.  I first went to a regular MD and they cut me way back to much to soon, so PLEASE be carefull who you ask for help as to fast of a cut back can cause seizures also. As I'm sure you have found out, for every 10 times you tried get an opinion on this drug you got 10 different answers.  Is it a narcotic is it a n opiate?  I do know they use Tramadol to treat herion addicts.  So take that with a grain of salt.  I think I must say ,as others have.  PLEASE, PLEASE be carefull if you even think you have  an addictive problem.
   And if you have a relationship with God, please pray for help.  I am praying for you all.  We need to inform others and hang together on this.

                                                                                              God bless you all
                                                                                                    Blaine                                                              

974630 tn?1248196062
by iontheprize, Jul 25, 2009
Hi all.  I am here to share a few things about the day.

I felt a little discouraged about some symptoms sneaking up on me.  Restless legs.  Fever.  Vision stuff.  It’s ok I suppose.

Good stuff….  I danced with my little dog to Eva Cassidy’s angelic voice.  I kept him calm through a thunderstorm.  I enjoyed the smell of the air as the storm rolled in; the sound of the thunder.   Somehow the rain makes me feel like I’m being cleansed and nurtured along with the earth.  

Earlier when I wrote, “Fred recently wrote, "I am finally Fred again" and another person wrote about being symptom free and added "It is over."  WOW!  That is inspiring and emotionally moving,” the word I was searching for was “profound.”  Those statements are truly profound.

The most significant part of my day came from a single thought.  When I looked at the clock and saw the day slipping away I felt a little down because I didn’t want it to end.  Until now it was the opposite.  Time seemed to pass so slowly and I couldn’t wait for it to end.  I just wanted to go to bed and escape it all, praying that I didn’t have the nightmares that have truly plagued me for so long while taking those pills.

I hope all of you had something occur today that made you feel something special.  Happy Saturday.  

~jessica




Avatar universal
by mrcrump, Jul 26, 2009
Jules, that's so AWESOME that you sent that little bastard flying down the drain. I had a similar experience as well!!  I was desperately searching my car because when I had Tram, I had alot of it, and would always be dropping it down the sides of my seat in the car while I was trying to fish two out of the pill bottle. So anyways I practically tore apart my car searching because I was positive there was atleast one.
  When I found the little guy, I held it in my hand rolling it between my fingertips, thinking the same as you: "Oh this is pure sweet energy, and I could use it." Then my dreamy state was shattered at the thought of my terrible withdrawals. So I opened an old fast food soda that was in my car and dropped the white devil in it. Then they both went into the trash. FOREVER.  I can't say that I didn't think about throwing myself at the trash can to get to the soda and drink it, but I'm saying that I stayed strong. Like you Jules, we are both ready to live free.   Take care, KS

Avatar universal
by MarkNina, Jul 26, 2009
Hi all,

Update....and some more advice needed.

My wife is down to 200mg now. At times the w/d's are pretty bad, especially the anxiety (she feel's like she commited a crime and is waiting to be caught!), restless legs, short tempered and generally p!ssed off (which is not like her, she is a pretty positive person)

Question, what vitamins/supplements can any of you recommend to help. We have read on here about vitamin 12?? Any more?? or any other advice. Walking seems to completely tire her out, as we found yetsreday out all day with the kids!

Thanks everyone and all the best

Mark (and Nina!)



974630 tn?1248196062
by iontheprize, Jul 26, 2009
Mark & Nina, I know there are a number of people who will have excellent suggestions.  I will throw out a few too.  First, sublingual B12 is fantastic and said to have nearly the therapeutic value of injection.  My doc told me 500 mg per day is best.  I've been taking 2 tabs of 1000 per day to catch up (my lab values were quite low).  Within one day my mind had more energy.  Within two, my body did as well.  I also purchased a women's joint health supplement supply.  It includes a multi, fish oil, and glucosamine and chondroitin.  I THINK it helps.  It's only been about 10 days since I started all that.  I also suggest that you get this stuff from a nutrition store.  Supplements are not regulated by the FDA so you want to make sure you are getting what you think you are.

As for the leg stuff, the only thing that helped me was baths that included epsom salt.  Taking one before I went to bed took away pain and calmed my legs and I could sleep.  There were days that I was too exhausted to run the bath, so Nina is lucky to have your help.

I wish you two the best; I hope it helps.

~jessica

974630 tn?1248196062
by iontheprize, Jul 26, 2009
On epsom salt -  if you do a search about it, you will find a few things.  One that I found in numerous places talked about it helping to draw  toxins out of the body.  I would visualize my body heling while in the tub.  Here are a few passages:

Epsom Salt flushes toxins and heavy metals from the cells, easing muscle pain and helping the body to eliminate harmful substances.  Pouring a warm bath with Epsom salts will actually draw out toxins from inside your body. Your skin is a highly porous membrane. Adding the right minerals to your bathwater triggers a process called reverse osmosis -- pulling salt out of your body, and harmful toxins along with it. Epsom salts cost nearly nothing.

•Epson Salt is magnesium sulfate. It offers one of the most effective means of making the magnesium your body needs readily available.
◦Excess adrenaline and stress are believed to drain magnesium, a natural stress reliever, from the body. Magnesium is necessary for the body to bind adequate amounts of serotonin, a mood-elevating chemical within the brain that creates a feeling of well being and relaxation.

Epsom Salts -- made of the mineral magnesium sulfate--are also a sedative for the nervous system.  When magnesium sulfate is absorbed through the skin, such as in a bath, it draws toxins from the body, sedates the nervous system, reduces swelling, relaxes muscles, is a natural emollient, exfoliator, and much more.

You get the picture.....  :)

~jessica



Avatar universal
by gettinglifeback, Jul 26, 2009
Help....I am day 26ish no Tram. but am having almost daily problems still with intestional "issues". I thought early on, I can handle this, it was expected, but I have to say I am surprised that here I am day 26 and still having such drastic issues regarding this.  I am honestly not sure if it is still from the Tram. wd's or if it's due to a sensitivity to one of the numerous suppliments I have been taking.  I wake up just about every morning with severe diarrhea. Today I had the nausea also. Don't know how I can feel decent for a day and then bam!! It's all back.  Curious if anyone had problems with Valarian Root or the Melatonin taken at night. I also take during the day St. John's Wort, another mood stabalizer I can never remember 5-D..something along with B-12 sublingual fish oil (high dose) and also a multi-vit. Oh and Advil or Tylenol depending on the time..  I do have IBS so not totally shocked by stomach problems, but this is really limiting. I have read through quite a bit of the past journals, and it seems by this time in most people's posts that intestinal problems don't seem to be an issue.  Would really like any feedback you can give me.  Already trying to deal with the mood swings here. Hard to be happy when your gut feels so bad.  I did switch over off of Immodium to just Pepto-tablets since the Immodium seems to be more habit forming....might be wrong on that though.

Ok, here I am asking about supplements causing problems and I am looking at adding another....anyone have any luck on the DLPH?  I read up on it yesterday for pain control (naturally releasing endorphins?) and also possibly helping with mild depression.  Since I am trying to exercise and keep moving my muscles that haven't moved in a while are screaming at me but so is the constant pain in my butt/leg similar to just post-surg.....nothing terrible, but enough that it worries me at times. I plan to work through the pain and hopefully becoming more mobile and losing weight the pain will stop all together..but was reading up on the DLPH and curiosity got the best of me.

Thanks again for your help ahead of time.  I hope it's a good day for everyone out there.
Missy

974630 tn?1248196062
by iontheprize, Jul 26, 2009
Missy, I'm so sorry for your tough days.  One thing I can contribute is that I think fish oil is causing me some "issues" that started only after starting the supplements and I was on about day 35 at that point.  I didn't take it yesterday and no problems.  I took it today and notice the difference.  Anyone have a similar issue?  Is there an adjustment period to it?

~jessica

Avatar universal
by MarkNina, Jul 26, 2009
Jessica, thanks so much for your replies.

Will be trying to get the B12 vitamins this week, as well as the Salt bath recommendation. The Epson Salt bath sounds exactly what my wife needs! Thanks for the research!

Will keep you posted. All the best everyone

Mark



Avatar universal
by recordcollector, Jul 26, 2009
Hi all

I began reading this thread from the start but then realised it went on for hundreds of comments.  So I have skipped to the end.  I don’t have much new information to offer but perhaps there is something of use here and/or you have comments on my story.

I am from the UK, 41 years old, married with one daughter, mortgage and a well paid full time job.  I also have a separate spare time “job” running a small music business.  It will become evident that the latter may have proved part of the addiction.

What may slightly differ from other folks is that I was never prescribed Tramadol.  I suffer from severe muscle pain in my back and have never really got to the bottom of it – a separate argument with the doctors altogether!  When I was visiting the wife’s parents, my mother in law said she had some pills that may assist with my pain.  In turns out they were Tramadol.  I had one that day and immediately noticed the calming and soporific effect it had on me – nice!

What may also be different from other people is the additional effects this drug had on me.  Although it did help the pain, it also gave me a strong sense of well being.  I was able to concentrate more and focus on things.  Somehow tax returns seemed enjoyable!  With one tab on a Friday evening I was able to sit at the computer for 6 to 7 hours beavering away at all the mundane tasks I usually shirked from.  Weird!

In the beginning it was a weekend thing.  Friday evenings or Sunday afernoons, one tab or two.  Mostly for sitting at the PC getting on with stuff.  It kept me awake into the small hours.  I was able concentrate.  When I went to bed I collapsed feeling good and woke up not feeling that bad either.  I don’t think it was a problem, but then that is why it is evil, it tempts you to take more, in probably the same way as heroin.

I can’t actually remember when I started taking them at work, on a daily basis, needless to say I was hooked very quickly once I did.

What I would also say that for the first year and a half or so, I was perfectly happy with the addiction.  I only took 3 or at most 4 a day.  (This is where my addiction may pale into insignificance compared with other poor souls here, but please do read one).  I admitted the addiction to a few friends and was strangely happy to commend it!  One friend who had been addicted to amphetamines (a long time ago when young) told me to watch out.  I didn’t take any heed, Tramadol had become part of my daily routine and I was completely at peace with the whole situation.  I wasn’t continually increasing the dosage after all, never more than 200mg per day.  I heard about people who took 7 tabs at a time and so I thought to myself – there is no way I am an addict if there other people have that type of problem.

My supply would come via my GP who I had convinced to give me a repeat prescription (not sure if that is the same terminology in the states) – I just phoned up, placed the order, and picked them up a few days later. Instant gratification!  After moving home a few times over the years I have had to make the tricky first visit and use the back problem as the excuse.  I would also go to the trouble of making sure I was well groomed and in my business suit so as not to appear like a junkie and be very blasé about the whole thing.  Some doctors took a bit of convincing.  Others couldn’t care less and wrote the prescription in about 10 seconds, as if you they couldn’t wait to get me out the door.

I did also encounter one doctor who was against me taking it, and warned of its addictive properties.  However it didn’t stop her prescribing it after 5 minutes gentle persuasion.

THE PROBLEMS BEGIN

After about two years I began to notice that I was no longer getting the high I used to get.  I was also beginning to take two at a time.  I was waking up in the morning feeling completely shattered, and felt like Hell.  Like I couldn’t face the day.  The tabs were in my mouth before I had even got in the shower.  I was now taking them to feel NORMAL.

This went on for a couple of months and I realised I was a lousy addict.  I became depressed, not so much because of the effect of the drug, but because of what I had become.  I took stock of things and couldn’t believe I had been so stupid.  The drug had no longer become a friend but an enemy.  It was controlling me, and I don’t like to be controlled.  It was a mental addiction as well as a physical one.  Things spiralled out of control soon after.  When I wasn’t on enough I craved it and when I was on enough I was wondering how long it would last.  My next “fix” was always on my mind.  It was the Devil.

It had to stop, and it took another few months to muster the courage to quit.  Looking back I wished I had read this forum before (I was probably scared to search the internet for fear of finding out what I already knew about Tramadol), because I went COLD TURKEY.

Cold turkey was Hell.  I must admit I did not get much of the sweating, cramps or headaches, but I definitely had no energy, mental or physical and the depression was unbelievable.  I feel so sorry about the folks who were on much higher daily doses.  But the worst thing by far was the sleeplessness.  My God it is awful.  I have had insomnia before but this was completely different.  It was a like a Demon in head tormenting me “Lie down, sit up, roll over, have a drink, watch TV, lie down” …. Ad infinitum.

I actually think I was over the worst of the above in only 4 or 5 days.  However, the mental dependency stayed with me.  I was able to work and “operate” normally, but I continually thought about Tramadol, how if I took just one I would be able to get through that difficult work project!  After two months I weakened, and I was back on 250mg a day.

One month down the line and I was in exactly the same position as before, only now I was popping them in my mouth and loosing track of exactly how many I was taking.  The mornings were the worst, a vacant feeling in my head like I was a husk of my former myself.

I asked myself these questions all the time:

“How can I be the energetic care-free type I was before?”
“How did I ever manage to get up at 6am every morning and cycle to work and feel happy?”
“How was it that I was the one to look on the bright side and not let things bother me?”
“How was I like all those things and I never took Tramadol!!”

I had truelly forgotten how to be me and the person I was and couldn’t see a way of going back.

Cold Turkey #2

This time a lot worse, in addition to the sleeplessness I had hot “flashes” and strange wobbly feelings like you get with flu.  It didn’t quite affect my vision, but when I made an eye movement to the extreme right or left I got a sudden rush of heat in my head and a slight wobble.  It wouldn’t go away for days, it went from scarey to just plain annoying.

Through perseverance I got through it, just.  But again the mental addiction stayed with me.  I still haven’t got to that former me.  So I guess I am still in withdrawal, several months later.  Maybe it is because I didn’t come off them slowly, I have somehow affected my brain?  I would be interested in people’s opinions on this.

*** Does cold turkey do you more harm than good?  Mentally and/or physically?  Has it been proved that cold turkey is NOT the way to go?

Should I even go back on them on limited doses and then wean myself off them again??

Overall, it is an evil thing, on a par with highly addictive drugs, which fortunately I have never had the inclination to sample, although after my experience with Tramadol, it feels like I have sampled something very close.

Thanks for listening.


Avatar universal
by kickingbear, Jul 26, 2009
What a relief to read from non negetive folks with such heart and soul.So here is about me as you folks seem forgiven Im laying my heart out for some help. I am 3 weeks out from a 200 mg a day of hydro.yeap i know that don"t sound real but it is what it WAS. I went to a 14 day detox. doc wants to try me on tram for pain mag. Right now im on 2400 mg of neurontin for pain from a  mva and assortment of other broken bones and 2mg of klonpin that I have took for many years for rls.I have squalled and balled more in these last couple weeks Stilll had chills,shakes,100 mph bathroom breaks. Yall know the rest.
Well my head feels everbit if not more numb then when on the ops. My heart has started to feel again but my heAD IS IN SUCH A FOG .What course of action should I discuss with my doc ?many thanks to all
                                    KB

Avatar universal
by jekorb, Jul 26, 2009
I can't tell you how much I admire my fellow fighters here.  I read everyone's posts and am very thankful that you share your experiences, both good and bad, with the rest of us who are also in this fight up to our necks!  Like Blaine (43panther) above, I, too, am on Suboxone~~~in fact, today was my first day on them!  I took my final dose of poison (tramadol) at 7 p.m. last night, took the rest into the bathroom, used the toilet and then with a shaking hand, dumped the rest of the pills in and flushed, holding down the handle to make sure my once-friends-turned-vicious-enemies were well on their way to the waste water treatment plant!  At 1:05 p.m. today, 18 hours after taking my last dose of Trams, I took my first Suboxone.  It took about 15 min. to melt and its bitter-orange taste added to my early withdrawal misery (to learn why you must be in early/med. withdrawal, check the Suboxone website---this is a VERY important step which must be followed!!).  I laid back down and closed my eyes, praying that this was it, the help that I knew I needed after all these years.  About a half-hour later, I opened my eyes and realized that my w/d symptoms were gone.  It was a very humbling feeling to know that at last, I did something right for a change.  I sat up slowly as I was kind of dizzy, drank some water and then walked to the kitchen, where I made myself a little lunch.  It's now almost 6 p.m. and I will take the second tablet at 9 p.m.  I am still stunned~~~after only a few hours of w/d, I am walking, talking, eating.  I feel well, not high, just---well.  Very tired, but my MD said that would pass after awhile.  He told me that as long as I followed his instructions to the letter (he's been treating addicts since 1989 and has prescribed Suboxone since it came out), he would slowly get me off the Subs and that would be that, just so long as I got the necessary counselling, support, and attended my NA meetings regularly.  He told me that an addict MUST have that support system on which to fall back, as the danger of relapse hangs over our heads waiting to fling us back into hell.  The things that I hated and fought against most of all were the terribly cravings---and Suboxone cancels these out so I can work on my addiction full-time w/o those horrible, stinkin' cravings!

Thanks to all of you, warriors of my heart.  You are all dear to me; you'll never know how much I appreciate all of you.  Fight on!

My prayers,
Joan

738790 tn?1377724594
by KC67, Jul 26, 2009
Recordcollector,
Everything you wrote is "right on" describing the effects Tramadol has upon one's brain, body, and psyche.

Tramadol is a sneaky drug in that it causes you to ask questions like,
"How in the world did I ever function BEFORE Tramadol?"  
"How did I ever manage to get up and work a full day at 6am WITHOUT Tramadol?"  
"How can anyone survive without Tramadol?".

That's the lie that the drug makers want you to believe - the ones who are the very creators of the molecules that make up the tiny pill called "Tramadol".  Their goal is to make us "hooked" - both physically AND psychologically.

We know that not only does Tramadol contain a substance that  relieves pain, but there is also a very powerful tri-cyclic antidepressant mixed in.  The combination of the two creates a quick dependence that typically involves an increasing doseage to achieve the same relief/effect.  

Because of the anti-depressant aspect of this drug, we experience pretty severe depression and anxiety when we cease taking it or decrease our doseage.  

I have read this entire journal and time and again, I have seen people write that the physical withdrawal was bad, but the mental withdrawal (i.e. depression, insomnia, anxiety) were extremely and intensely worse.  

To answer your question, "Does cold turkey do you more harm than good?  Mentally and/or physically?"

Based on my research and on all of the hundreds of posts on this journal, cold turkey does NOT cause you more harm than good.  Also, there is not a single bit of evidence that going cold turkey (or even tapering) CAUSES one to have seizures.  The only danger of seizures comes with INCREASING your Tramadol dose.

This increase can be from a sudden increase or even a gradual increase.  It depends upon each individual and their threshold for tolerance of Tramadol.  Some experience seizures on relatively small amounts of Tramadol (say 150mg/day) and some it takes large amounts (25+ x 50mg/day).  Either way, it is a very dangerous drug and it is simply not worth the cost of suffering a seizure.  There have even been some who reported having a seizure while driving.  How scary is that?

So, no.  I do not think you need to go back on the drug and then taper slowly.  Emphatic "NO"!

It took me "weeks and weeks" to feel normal again.  

I started (and I stress "started") to feel somewhat normal at around 60 days.  Even at 60 days out, I still felt depression and thought about taking a Tramadol to relieve the uncomfortable feelings that I was experiencing.  

Now that I am over 100+ days out, it has gotten so much better.  

I took Xanax (a benzo) for years and I am recovering from that drug as well.  So the good news is that it may not take you (or anyone else) that long to experience normalcy.  

What I can say for sure is that...yes!  I CAN get up in the morning at 6am and function normally WITHOUT Tramadol or Xanax.  Yes, I can have the energy and positive attitude I had before Tramadol and Xanax.  And yes, life is better without these drugs controlling me.

My best to all of you fighting the power of this drug.  Give it time.  It takes a long time to get your brain receptors back to the way they were post-Tramadol (or post-any other drug for that matter).

Sincerely with hope and love,
KC

Avatar universal
by recordcollector, Jul 26, 2009
Hey KC

Thanks for the constructive and revealing answers to my questions.  I guess that the first time I came off them, after two months, I was only half way there - this makes a lot of sense now that I think back.  I still thought about it a lot and couldn't "cram" at night like used to.  However the way in which I did feel "recovered" was that my sleep pattern got back to normal and I actuall felt propertly tired at night (yawning, drowsy) and going to bed a lot earlier than usual.

I have read a few posts about this extra anti-depressent they put in.  When it says "Tramadol Hyrdachloride" on the box and nothing else - what is this extra substance exactly, and shouldn't they put that on the box too?

Thanks again for the confidence boost - that one CAN feel like ones former self again - I honestly can't remember that man now, but I can't wait to look in the mirror again and see him.

You seem to be clued up on the subject, could you answer one or other query?  I know this may sound a bit redundant but if someone has completely "come off" Tramadol are they still immune to it?  What I mean is, that at the moment if I took one tab I probably wouldn't feel anything like it would as when I first took them, so I guess I have built up an immunity.  (Is immunity the same as dependency?  Hmm).  You see the problem I have is that Tramadol was the only drug I found that helped my back pain and believe me I have tried most things - somehow it just really hit the spot, even more than morphine believe it or not. I am worried now how I can move forward with relief, as this is what started it all in the first place!  Luckily I haven't had a back pain for the last 3 months or so but I am panicking I will relapse if it does.

You sound like you have been through a lot worse than me so well done to you!!  And thanks again to you and everyone else here who has given up so much of themselves to share with others.

Cheers

738790 tn?1377724594
by KC67, Jul 26, 2009
RecordCollector,
I too felt the same way in that I was really concerned that I didn't know the real "me" apart from Tramadol.  I honestly believed the lie that I was better on them.  That I was more outgoing, had more energy, got more accomplished, was a better mom and wife, etc.... let alone it was THE answer to relief from my lower back pain.  

It was all a lie.

You asked the question, " ...if someone has completely "come off" Tramadol are they still immune to it?"

By "immunity" I am guessing that you are referring to tolerance.  Tolerance happens to almost everyone who takes Tramadol on a regular basis.  You know you are in tolerance when the same 2 pills you had been taking for a few months no longer have the same effect.  In other words, it now takes 3 or more pills to get relief or experience the same effect.  This is a bad thing because then you know you are dependent (either physically, psychologically or both).  

Also, if you read this entire journal, you will discover that many people will verify that Tramadol INCREASES pain.  

So, the pain you were initially taking Tramadol for - - suddenly increases-- and makes you think you need to take more.

This happened in my case, in Emily's case, and many many others on this forum.  I don't know HOW Tramadol increases pain, but it does and this leads you to take ever increasing doses.  

Many people have discovered this horrible fact which eventually led them to google or search "Tramadol Addiction" because we were told by our doctors and the medical community that Tramadol is "safe" and "not addictive".  We want to experience that pain relief or that energy we felt when we first started taking Tramadol --- but alas, it is not to be.  We increase our doses with hope that we will again experience relief from our pain or that initial surge of energy - - but deep down, we know that something is wrong....

something that compels us to search for a definition of what is happening to us.  

The answer is TOLERANCE.  It happens to almost everyone and the only solution is to completely rid our bodies of Tramadol.

Yes, it is difficult, but the good news is that it is possible --- and one can experience freedom from the controlling clutches of this drug.  It just takes time and perseverance.  Now that I am free of Tramadol, I  have very little back pain and I have found that it is manageable and tolerable.  

Sincerely with hope and love,
KC

910168 tn?1262466069
by Lillyval, Jul 27, 2009
recordcollector,
Tramadol is just what you said: Tramadol hydrochloride.  It's an often repeated misunderstanding on this site that there is an antidepressant mixed in.  The problem is that tramadol ACTS LIKE a tricyclic antidepressant in the brain, so when you withdrawal it is like withdrawing from both and opiate and an antidepressant at the same time.

Here is some info from www.opioids.com/tramadol (there's tons of other info. there, too)
"This drug is a racemic mixture of two enantiomers, each one displaying different mechanisms: (+)tramadol displays opioid agonist properties and inhibits serotonin reuptake while (-)tramadol inhibits preferentially noradrenaline reuptake. The action of tramadol on the monoaminergic reuptake is similar to that of antidepressant drugs"

I'm with KC - If you're off of it now DON'T go back on and try to taper.  Also it sounds like you're thinking of making the mistake I've made many times over the years - thinking that if you quit for a while you can get the effect you had when you first started.  But I've learned both from NA and from personal experience - Once addicted if you use the drug again, even after a long period of abstinance, you'll pick up RIGHT WHERE YOU LEFT OFF.  There's no going back to the beginning.

kickingbear - If you just detoxed from hydro, PLEASE, PLEASE for the love of God don't start taking Tramadol.  Many here have said that getting off of it is worse than withdrawing from the "real" opiates (despite what the drug companies say).

Speaking of the drug companies - Did you know that when heroin was developed at the end of the nineteenth century it was touted as THE SAFE NON-ADDICTIVE ALTERNATIVE TO MORPHINE!
It was sold with the label "Bayer Heroin" in little bottles just like Bayer aspirin.  You can google the history of heroin and see it.

I can't help but think history is repeating itself with Tramadol.
Blessings everyone,
Lilly

910168 tn?1262466069
by Lillyval, Jul 27, 2009
Also, I should add that the m1 metabolite of tramadol is a stronger opiod agonist than tramadol.  This means that they can get away with selling it as a non-schedule II narcotic, but your body converts it into one.  That is why the peak effectiveness is at 2 hours (and why addicts can't get higher by shooting it).  The point is that if they had to sell it as the m1 metabolite (which your body makes) it would be a schedule II narcotic.  This is the loophole that got many here addicted.

Sorry to go on about it, but I'm really interested in the chemistry of it.  I'm also really scared of what it's done to my serotonin and noradrenaline systems.  

Avatar universal
by girlfriendinwisconsin, Jul 27, 2009
No Lilly, please don't apologize!  This information is excellent.  Thanks a ton.  

599071 tn?1300072302
by madtram, Jul 27, 2009
Dear Emily, so glad to hear you are having some more good days.  I hope you find the inositol some use for the anxiety. I agree with u about the scary benzo sites, having been under delusion 597 that I had been prescribed a non benzo sleep med for all those months, it was enough of a shock to find that lunesta was effectively a full strength benzo, let alone reading yet more horror stories of what I had done to my system.  As for figuring which withdrawal symptoms belonged to which drug, who knows.  Although I suspect most of the blood pressure & cfs problems came from the lunesta, I would never have been on a sleep med but for the damn tram so it can have the biggest stabba stabba stab.

Hi Recordcollector, (what's the prize of your collection?), KC is absolutely right, tramadol has the same problem of tolerance as other opiates.  The body's opiate receptors reduce their function when subject to prolonged exposure to non endogenous opiates or opioids.  Tramadol has a weaker affinity for opiate receptors than other opioids but binds enough to produce the tolerance effect.

The increase in pain is probably due to a combination of the reduced production of natural endorphins arising from tolerance & the fact that tramadol does not act on the receptors strongly enough to overcome pain.

It's the tramadol molecule itself  that has the attribute of binding to opiate receptors & also acting as a 5ht2 agonist.  The 5ht receptor regulates the reuptake of serotonin & is the subject of the SSRI class of antidepressants such as prozac, zoloft & effexor.

Studies have found that antidepressants alone can go some way toward reducing pain in some people so the idea behind tramadol was that creating a drug with both opioid & antidepressant attributes would enable a weaker opioid to be more effective & supposedly avoid the addictive attributes of straight opioids.

As you have read, all of us on this forum have had more problems with tramadol than the stronger opiates. As with any psychoactive drugs, what seems reasonable in theory, in a test tube or a lab rat, (the rats loved tramadol), often proves to be complicated when introduced to the human brain.

Yes your opiate receptors will eventually regain their sensitivity but it might take a while & there's a real risk that withdrawals will be worse each time you repeat the experiment.  Add to that the risk of seizure every time you increase the dose & the horror stories u read here, why would u want to go there.

Back pain is no party but you may do better on an anticonvulsant like neurontin or an antidepressant like trazadone both of which can help with pain control but don't have the tolerance problems of tramadol.  I think that others on here have tried these & may be able to offer their experiences.

Missy, you asked about your gut issues, & I can say that unfortunately, bloating & other discomfort seems to be a problem for some of us women for many months post withdrawal. Some random thoughts, coming off immodium can also trigger withdrawal symptoms as it is quite a strong opioid, (the only reason u don't get psychoactive effects from immodium is that unlike tramadol, it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier.)

Orally ingested magnesium can also give u the runs,but it's very good stuff so u may want to try the epsom salt baths instead.  5htp can also have gastro side effects of nausea & the runs but your system might adjust or u could try reducing your dose.

You also asked about DLPA.  The phenylalanine molecule occurs naturally in food in the l-isomer form.  L-phenylalanine is the precursor to tyrosine which is required to form the dopamine & noradrenaline neurotransmitters which is why it can be helpful for energy, post withdrawal.

The d-isomer form of phenylalanine is the mirror of the l form  It does not occur in food so can only be taken as a supplement.  It is the d form that can boost the production of natural endorphins.  

You can buy both d-phenylalanine & DLPA, however up to one third of the d form is converted in the body to the l form so using DLPA at the dose required to achieve the dose of 5 grams per day of d-phenylalanine used in the pain control studies will result in a high dose of tyrosine. Everyone is different, so the DLPA may suit u just as well but for anyone who finds tyrosine too speedy for their system, (like me), the d-form alone may suit u better.

When u are taking multi supplements, it's hard to know what is doing what so if side effects appear, it's useful to discontinue one at a time to try & identify the cause.

Best to all,

M

Avatar universal
by nancy652, Jul 27, 2009
Well,  I'll post me two cents here since's I've read Emily's magnificant thread many, many times.

I have been taking T for about six years continuously,  except for when I was pregnant with my fourth child. I first got it when my father-in-law had surgery and they didn't (as they so often don't) want to give him a "real" opiate and he shared one with me. Well, we live in an area of the country where it is easy to obtain this drug from regular pharmacies and my father in law and husband have been able to obtain for me what I needed without the requirement of a prescription. Also,  for a few years,  before it got too difficult,  I would order them online.

My story is the same as most of you. It is like reading about myself. I really wonder how many of us are out there. I am a class action lawyer and I have often thought that if I could ever get away from this drug I would love to bring a case against it. In my worst moments I have actually dreaded such a thing because I have worried my supply would be cut off. Now that's crazy. I do consumer protection work. There is no doubt in my mind that this is the sneakiest drug on the market and how they managed to sell it unscheduled is a medical mystery that we might never figure out. My own GP once prescibed this drug to me in the middle of my saga with the same schtick...nonaddictive,  new,  etc and freely prescribed it for awhile. I knew better then. And I don't blame one other person including my husband. This is something that needes to be stopped from within.

So the dirty details: I work at home and have four children. The T gave me enormous goodwill and energy once I got used to it. I started off like recordcollector on the weekends, etc. Interstingly,  when I first took it I didn't like it. It took me a few times to acclimate myself to it. I was intrigued that unlike a regular opiate it didn't hit stronger on an empty stomach. It is a different animal. I came to prefer it to regular opiate that were prescibed to me sporadically for real issues that arose in my life - not recreationally. However being a child of the sixties, literally - I am 47,  I have experience of using all kinds of substances but none for this length of time.

I began with up to four 50 m a day tabs and went quickly to eight. I read that was max dosage and followed that for many years. In the last two years it has become increasingly difficult to keep it under 10 a day and I have sometimes done a few more. It is an insidious drug because it does its job so well..you feel better...you well great and perform well. Let's face it - life is drab and we can all use an extra kick. Unfortunately part of T's job is to make you want MORE no matter what. It might take a week or it might take five years. You WILL increase your dosage to a point where you are uncomfortable. That's where I am now.

The good news: I have quit twice before. When I was pregnant I tapered on a fast one half to one a day 50 m tab fron 8 tabs a day down to 0 in two weeks. It wasn't awful awful. It was not fun though. I know that sounds like quick taper and I would never give medical advice...mostly because not even doctors can manage to do that in regard to this drug properly.  It did work for me though along with a regimen of immodium ad,  hot baths (epsom as above) an occasional nip of vey weak codeine cough syrup ( that I knew would not be replaced - the weakest one out there) and once,  some Kratom which actually does work but has side issues. I found it too inconvenient to consume enough Kraton (an herb which is mostly legal in the U.S.) to abuse so it helped kill cravings as a tea.  The first time I stopped (when pregnant) though I just did the taper and the baths and antihistimines and immodium. Both times I obviously went back to it. The second time I quit I also became a bit hyper. It was like all the emotion I had tamped down was coming right to the surface. It scared me.

So here I am. I've looked over this sight many times. I love it and thanks to Emily, Fred, the later posters...all of you. I have about 60 left right now and I am thinking about trying a quick taper because when the day comes for me to stop...I want it to be a day like today when it is my decision. I have a nice life,  but you know depression is not kind and I suffer fron that and anxiety so it is hard to stop a drug that helps me with both...to a point. Unfortunately, it doesn't last and like Recordcollector and the rest of you kind souls...T has turned on me. So today,  it will be eight for me. That is a cut-down. Tomorrow will be seven and a half. Help me out by traveling with me so I have someone to report to. I am very private and of course no one knows about this. But I've come to like you all alot.

Nancy

Avatar universal
by Nooneknows138, Jul 27, 2009
Nancy,

Since this is my first post, I will tell you that something in your post prompted me to come out of the darkness and stop "lurking" around this site.  I have read most every thread and feel like I know most of the folks here.  Maybe it was your age (I too am 47) or the fact that some of what you are telling yourself now sounds so familiar.  I am in the middle of withdrawal from this drug, day 7, and today, I wish I could just go to sleep and never wake up.  I just don't feel like I can hide the horrible way I feel another minute!  I have cursed the day I ever took these, not that I didn't need something for pain, but I certainly didn't need another addiction.  I quit Norco cold-turkey and then proceeded to take Methadone after my mother passed away (it was hers) thinking I could medicate my way out of depression.  I had to get help after gutting through 8 days of the worst withdrawal symptoms imaginable.  I went to a detox facility which was the most embarrassing experience of my life.  You see, folks like me don't have addictions !!!  (HA!) Or that is what I told myself.  Maybe it was just that I thought I could beat it since I had beaten so many other things.  Unfortunately, I learned that I was human (not wonder-woman?) and succumbed to defeat.  I did beat it and only took hydro's when I felt I "needed" them for the next couple of years.  Then my Doctor prescribed Tramadol, and true to what has been written, I never just took a normal dose.  I too, am a "if one is good then 5 must be better" person.  I could take 30-10mg Norcos a day, no-problem (or so I thought), and quickly upped my "T" dose to approx 9-10 per day (50 mg).  I had no idea that they were so addictive. Not that I wanted to either.  I completely blame myself because I should have come clean with my GP and told her of my past. However, I didn't want to ruin my chances of ever seeing another pain-killer or facing "that look" in her eyes (disappointment possibly?)

I wish I could write as eloquently as the others here (I had to use spell-check just to use that word!!) but I know what each one is feeling.  The fear of not succeeding, the terror of people finding out, the pain of living sober.  I have medicated myself for so many years I don't even know who I am nor why anyone would ever love me.  Fortunately, I have a loving husband (who doesn't quite get it) but loves me anyway and somehow, I still have a job.  The job may end if I can't get this under control.  The feeling that I have been run over by a semi or just finished a marathon is so debilitating.  I have a constant lump in my throat, and every other symptom listed in previous threads.  
I want to listen to your thoughts, your fears and apprehensions.  Possibly hoping you will listen to mine?  I have no one else and I just don't feel like I can do this again.
I send you all the good thoughts I can muster and say "You can do it!, Just take one day at a time.....I am.  We can do this.....together.

Signed....(hmm I need a nick-name)
"Nooneknows"

Avatar universal
by nancy652, Jul 27, 2009
Thank you for your response NOONE.  Thank you so much. I am so jealous of you actually on day 7! You are brave brave brave. I can still try and kid myself. I have to take my kids out - they are insisting on a swim which I would normally avoid as I am happy to do nothing at this point with my T addiction. But change starts here I suppose so I will get a little exercise and break the pattern. I will gladly be your partner here. Your writing is just fine and it really moves me that you wrote. I will be back later tonight or in the a.m. Don't give up.
Hugs
Nancy

Avatar universal
by Nooneknows138, Jul 27, 2009
Thank YOU Nancy!  I am completely amazed that you can handle 4 kids, drugs or not!  They will help you through believe it or not.  I had only one child many years ago, who we could talk about for hours.  She is 30 now with her own family and doesn't speak to me.  Hasn't for over a year, and doesn't know about this round.  My husband and I moved away from my family (what little I have left)  so I don't have that support.  Not that I would if I lived there, we just aren't close since my mother's passing.
I'm not sure what I would do if I had to do something for someone else.  Withdrawal can be the most selfish thing.  It is all can do to get up and brush my teeth!  I have been stressing all day about what to do about my work.  I am a salesperson and I have already missed most of last week.  I was so surprised how bad I felt this morning.  I had hoped that the worst was behind me.  It is a sneaky drug from what I have read here so I cannot even try to predict what tomorrow will bring.  I'm not sure what to say, if anything, to my employer.  Should I try to go on disability?  I don't want to get fired but I can't find the energy to get up and dressed at 5 am.  Does anyone have any advice for me?
I want to thank you all so much for the honesty here.  Especially to Emily who stepped up first here and started this.  I admire you so much that I can't find the words.  I have been taking vitamins and can't say that they help.  I called my husband and asked that he pick up the B-12.  The Super "B" I have been taking doesn't have enough I guess?
The brain fog is the worst, I can't remember half of what I have read here!!  I'm trying though.
I look forward to this journey, Nancy.  And thank you for responding and caring.
Nooneknows138

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by iontheprize, Jul 27, 2009
Hi All.  There are a few of you who have recently just poured out your hearts and souls and I'm so moved to read your stories.  Spelling doesn't matter Nooneknows; you silly.  It's about sharing, honesty, getting/giving strength and getting through with a group who gets it.  I have just a few things to say.  First, it's day 45 for me. YAY.  

I'm so damned irritable the past few days.  I've been snapping at people when I don't have the energy to feign patience.  My legs are on the move and I wrote to someone that I look like Elaine from Seinfeld when she tried to dance at a party.  My legs hurt.  My fever is lingering.  It's all getting better, but I'm just tired of waiting for tomorrow to be better.  Today I'm tired of waiting for tomorrow to be better, I should say.

I wanted to say somethings about getting to know who you are today without the junk.  My father is an alcoholic with nearly 15 years in of sobriety.  He drank for 40 years.  Once getting through the muck, he still has the very best of who he was combined with who he has become; a person of great humility, understanding, patience, humor galore, and joy.  He LIVES life and I couldn't be more proud of him or love him more dearly for it.  He also allowed his battle to be something I could learn from.  He has almost 15 years in.

Until recently, I was taking about 20 tabs of 50mg tram.  I guess I did that for about 2 years.  According to the Internet, I have a back problem as a result of helping my father move.  Sounds nice, but it's a lie.  I haven't been free of some type of rx for 5 years.  Tramadol is the only med that I've had withdrawal from and by that I mean I've been going through hell.  It's only been the past few days that I have glimpses of the other side.

Some years ago I had a serious eating disorder.  It lasted for 16 years.  During the times that I realized that I was in trouble and needed to get well, I tried in earnest.  The nuttiest thing would come over me and actually led to pretty severe relapses: I had a paralyzing FEAR OF SUCCESS.  I had no idea who I would be without my "friend".  I had no idea how to live without it; it made me sad to think of losing my "friend."  How would I process or react to things if not through the filter of my problem?  Who was I to become?  To me recovery wasn't just eat well; it meant everything would be different and it was scary as hell.  When I got ever-so-brief feelings that success was within reach, BAM into a relapse.  I have been well of that for 8 years.  Like my father, I'm a better person for getting through all of it.

I shared those non-tram stories b/c they are about recovery and fear associated with it.  It really is one day at a time and sometimes it can only be moment by moment, but it adds up.  

I'm especially thinking of all of you who are suffering tonight and am grateful for the ones who are further along for being our "footprints in the sand."

~jessica

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by EmilyPost, Jul 27, 2009
((((iontheprize))))

I didn't know you were a food addict, drug of choice. Me too honey bunny. ((((((((ion)))))))))

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by iontheprize, Jul 27, 2009
Oh Emily, you had me laughing out loud!

Avatar universal
by Nooneknows138, Jul 27, 2009
Thank you for the words of encouragement ionthprize.  Most of what you said hits home with me.  Maybe I am scared of success or of losing my friend, especially since it seems to be the only one that wants anything to do with me these days!  My husband just got home from work and we had words.  He doesn't understand or doesn't want to.  I don't blame him as all I have brought him in our short marriage is misery.  I understand that he has a hard time with this.  I tried to explain how I felt physically.  He then asked me if I was going to work tomorrow.  I told him I didn't really know.  He then asked me if I wanted to go on a bike ride??  I answered that I was exhausted walking across the room.  He doesn't get it.
I know that at least here I am among friends, even if he doesn't want me to be.  He told me that I don't need to read this stuff.  That it will depress me.  How can communicating with people who are going through what I am or have already been through it be wrong?
As I said earlier; He doesn't get it.  He never will.
I am through the worst yet?  Will tomorrow be better?  Will I be able to work?
So many questions I have that no one can answer....
Maybe a new day will bring better news.
Thanks to all for listening.


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by Bulldemon, Jul 27, 2009
Hey all reporting back 10 days off tramadol. Ive been taking tons of vitamins, it seems the L-tyrosine is really helping with alot of things, i take that with the b-6 caps for absorption, im taking the one a days for men and the mix of them seem to be doing the trick. Im taking dreamweaver at night it has valarian root, passion flower, melatonin and zinc aspartate and seems to be doing the job quite well. I purchased it at GNC its a little expensive , but it beats not taking medicines :) The L-tyrosine actually kinda helped the depression and the loss of energy . Hope this helps :) keep up the good fight.

God bless,
Brandon

Avatar universal
by grandmagirl, Jul 27, 2009
Happy Monday...

Welcome all new comers...

I have GOOD news....The depression is almost gone...Thank God...What a hell journey this has been. Mr.Toads Wild Ride is over.

As some of you know I was put on Prozac and thought it would be the magic pill..WRONG..Felt like I was going to jump out of my skin 24/7 soooooo I flushed them. Feeling so much better.
Too my dear co-writers ..you saved my life.

Emily...so many thanks to you....Your fantastic...Fred...love the pictures....and all of your wonderful posts.  Big I
think of you often..You were the first to answer my call for help..I hope your doing well....

My old motto...What dosen't kill you makes you stronger...I'm almost 4 and 1/2 mos.out..Please ignore spelling..Spell check is still broken.......Love to all

Avatar universal
by 43panther, Jul 27, 2009
Hey my new friends.  Thanks again for letting me tag along and glean some helpfull notes from you ALL.  I am on day 18 of suboxone treatment.  My biggest fear is that  I am trading  Tramadol addiction for a subox. dependancy. Doc. says no, as long as I do it his way.  I trust him because he has been right on with everything else he's said.                        
   Dear jekorb.(Joan)  We seem to be in the same nightmare for the most part.  Lets keep comparing notes and keep each other accountable.  This is due to our own addictive nature.but this right here right now is most inportant thing we are doing besides the working with the fractured relationships we have to repair.  Me with my wife and you with your most important soul in your life.  I pray you have a partner who will HELP you in this hellish time.  You seem to understand the importance of a support group.  I have thought it not important at times, but have come to understand the soul cleansing and strength I get from finding out the more I felt I was alone or differant, the more I was just the same, if not worse than most.  I am so commited to beating this, but at the same time so aware of the challange at hand that my head swims at times.
   My days are broke down into trying to make it one more hour, one more block of time ,so as to make it to the night time ware I can go to bed and let sleep end the fight of that day.  I wake up , and see the light coming in through the window and try to not get defeated so I can start fighting one hour  at a time again.  I'm not working, and I need to get back to that, but I just need to take it slow and fight that fight until it's not that big of a fight from hour to hour and more like day to day.  The tiredness is still my biggest problem.  I don't really think of the Tramadol (by the grace of God) but I still have the suboxone to fall back on.  So that will be the next phase of my recovery I'm sure.  But I am so thankfull the Tramawithdrawls are minimal, that I just want to praise God.  The day is over and I am about to end day 18,  I hope and pray that day 19 will be better than the last one.  We ALL can win this battle, but we need to keep ahead of ourselves so that the weak times our already planned for.  
  Thank you all again for allowing me to battle this part of our lives together, and I really do respect you all for picking up our cross and denying ourselves so we can be better than we were yesterday.
                                                                                                  God bless you and give us the ability to win the day
                                                                                                             I care and I am praying for all of you
                                                                                                                                    Blaine

Avatar universal
by Formerfitgirl, Jul 28, 2009
Wow! The posts from the last few days have been mind boggling! I had no idea how many tram addicted, eating disordered lawyers ( like myself) were out there. Your messages have brought great comfort to me. I am 64 days post tram, feeling slightly less depressed and more energetic. Too bad I can't seem to kick this disabling food addiction!!! Whatever else you say about tramadol, it does promote weight loss!  I miss that!


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by iontheprize, Jul 28, 2009
I hear you formerfitgirl!

One thing that I can't believe I've been able to do is laugh as I watch my weight go up.  Pretty crazy b/c my calories are the same.  This happened last  year too.  I mentioned that I blamed it on the stress that came from living with my boyfriend, but I know differently now.  It's like I swallowed an 8lb weight one day.  LOL.  I am picking my battles for the day and putting others off for later.  Currently, more than anything else, I want to be free of this drug.  I know that once I have energy, the weight will come off.  I will be moving soon, and that has a history of getting me into better shape!  Too bad I'm losing my house (another story) to have that happen.  

As I write this, I now believe I could really join a lot of groups.  LOL.  I sure do love this one!

Have a good day everybody.

~jessica

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by madtram, Jul 28, 2009
The  gosh darn it insomnia has been back for the last few nights & I am so bad at handling it.  I feel right back there in that hopeless, this will never end mindspace.  I can generally manage my self-talk with any other issue but not being able to sleep does my head in.

Emily, strong strong Emily casually mentions "insomnia is leaving", after however many months.  Me, I'm obsessed with my insomnia problem after three bad nights.  Better hope I never have to hold out under torture or join a cult.

Ok,end of the pity party.  So glad to hear so many are doing so well & for anyone still struggling, your breakthrough awaits you any day now.

M



Avatar universal
by recordcollector, Jul 28, 2009
Hey Nancy652

I read your story and like you say it is similar to mine and many others, although I have rarely stretched to 8 a day.  It is revealing that you read that 8 was the "max recommended dose" and so you then felt it was okay to move to that dosage.  But I came across that same issue with my own addiction, in that I find excuses to assure myself that "2 more won't hurt" etc.  This is part of the evil of the drug, it makes you lie to yourself, and others, with lame excuses. in the same way as any other addictive drug (cigarettes, alcohol).

One phrase that jumped off the page when reading your post was " life is drab and we can all use an extra kick".  Again, I am pretty convinced that this is the lie and the evil that Tramadol has embedded in your psyche.  As others have so kindly re-assured me (thanks KC) , it IS possible to get back to that former self, the energetic and lively you, that doesn't need Tramadol or another other drug.  I am not quite there yet, but I am looking forward to it.  What I didn't mention is that I also gave up alcohol and tobacco about a year ago.  Trams are now my only vice!  But I am determined to get through it - it just shows that Tramadol can be as hard, or even harder than those two sometimes.

It is quite strange reading some of the stories as you could replace the word Tramadol with cigarettes and it would pretty much make perfect sense!

I hope your taper works out, keep us up to date on how you are doing!  most of us have been through it or are going through it too.



Avatar universal
by recordcollector, Jul 28, 2009
I guess this is a serious forum but I try to find some light hearted aspects to it in order to keep my head a little.

Has anyone else noticed that some of their earlier posts (that go on for 5 screens or more) - you can kind of tell due to the prose that they were probably written while on Tramadol?!  Not exactly hilarious but ironic nonetheless!

Avatar universal
by recordcollector, Jul 28, 2009
Oh yeh, the prize in the collection is a signed copy of Ivor Cutler's first album from the early 60s.  There is also the first pressing of "Kind of Blue".  I could go on ....

Avatar universal
by nancy652, Jul 28, 2009
I am still here NoOneKnows! I will call you NOK,  ok? Thanks for the responses to everyone else. Nice to hear that others share my profession and some share other concerns and Recordcollector shares my taste for the obscure. Ivor Cutler, wow. That's cool.

Last night I did indeed go to the pool. Kept my T tabs at 8. Then I had a quite uncomfortable night with the sweats so my intake must have been consistently higher than I had allowed myself to think. Lots of nightmares. For me that sweating is the worst. I remember the day I first had it many years back when I was waiting for my friendly Fedex man to deliver my next dose. I was scared and being the big planner that I am have never gone below my taper number without a refill. So when I have 36 left it is 8, 7,  6 etc till the refill. The thing is my refills usually came quick so my doage increased.

Thank you for the reminder that life is not really drab and that is part of lie that the T tells. My life right now is quite drab and narrow because I have let the T surround me and even out the highs and lows and mellowed my urge to fight challenges for myself or create new things. Creation is messy.

But here's the thing: Lately I have been having these awful dreams. I live in this thin bare space...like a place with thin air or something or a place that cannot hold life...I think it is barren. The locations change but the feeling doesn't. And two nights ago before I posted it happened again. I couldn't stand it. It's awful. The T as much as it truly helped me in some ways until it got out of hand AND IT ALWAYS WILL  deprives me of organic content in my life. I used it to create a sterile space. I cannot go on like that.

So today is 7 and a half. I feel very grateful to have this board to report to and NOK I really feel for you with the added stress of a bad night with your husband. But you are very brave...you all are. There is an honesty inside you that is forcing you to correct a behavior that doesn't work for you. I have to admire an honesty like that.  This is my last vice too. At least addiction wise. It could so easily be replaced so I'm going to have to be careful. No interest in cigs or drink - already quit those. But anything that helps to improve my mood will always be a problem for me.

But I'm not going there now. One struggle at a time. Thanks for the input all and I'll check in again later. I'm with you NOK.

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by Captain_Backfire, Jul 28, 2009
Hello all,

     Firstly, I have to say that I thank GOD for places like this. If it wasn't for finding a site like this several months ago, I honestly thought I was going insane. The symptoms I felt every day, I thought I was literally dying. Sitting here reading all your stories, I'm in tears. I've been so ashamed of myself with all of this, feeling like a let-down to everyone around me. Like I should have known better. I have a 2 year old beautiful little boy, whom when I had him, had a c-section and an spinal. The idiot anesthesiologist I had messed my spinal up so badly, he gave me degenerative disk disease. 14 pokes of the needle and an ENORMOUS bruise later, I've endured the worst back pain I've ever experienced for 2 years now. After meeting my husband's best friend's new girlfriend, she introduced me to Tramadol, explaining that it helped her out tremendously, so I tried it. For the first few weeks, it was absolutely amazing. No back pain, I had energy out the butt, and I just felt great. I went to her doctor and got a script for it, and thus began my downward spiral.

Since, it's been almost a year, and for quite a while, I couldn't understand the flu like symptoms, the chills and skin crawls, the muscle aches and the twitching shakes I would get when I didn't take them every so many hours. I thought my body was dying, like I had cancer or something. (I've never been around anyone with withdrawals, nor have I had them myself, so I had no idea...) My mother works for a pharmacy, has been for years, and told me my stomach would end up bleeding if I kept taking this, freaking me out more. (Thanks, Ma.) But yeah. So one night at work, I was searching and searching trying to figure out where these ailments were coming from when I finally got the bright idea to associate Tramadol into my search. Low and behold, I got my answer, and boy did I feel like an idiot. I finally broke down and told my husband of my problem, after denying it for so long because I honestly didn't know it was because of the Tramadol, and now I just feel stupid. But if I don't take them, the pain is so severe, I nearly climb and claw the walls, feeling as though I could pull my hair from it's roots. My short term memory is completely shot, I'm extremely moody, and I know it's because of this. And how do I go cold turkey with a 2 year old? I have nobody to watch him... I'm a stay at home mom during the week while my husband's at work. I only work overnights on the weekends, and even then, how do I handle pain like that while having to do normal daily functions? I'm petrified, and my supply is quickly dwindling. When I get close to being out, I freak, wondering where my next supply is going to come from. It's sickening. I know I need to go to a doctor and ween myself off, but I'm literally so ashamed of myself, I'm afraid to tell anyone else of my problem.

I just don't know what to do with myself. Is there anywhere on the net or something I can get them so I can just ween myself off without the aid of a doctor? I really want to get off this drug. I NEED to get off this drug, for my sake, and for the sake of my family. Never in my life did I ever think I would have to say I'm an addict, as it feels like such a dirty thing to admit to, but I suppose there's a difference in being addicted physically than being addicted mentally, needing a high all the time. Tramadol gives me no type of high what-so-ever, just keeps the pain at bay. But the pain I'm dealing with from the withdrawals is far worse than what my back pain was. Knowing this pain, I could deal with the back pain. I just want to be normal again. Thanks though for all your inspirational stories. They really make me feel better about myself, knowing that I'm not the only decent human being in the world going through this horrible situation.

Sincerely,

       Sarah

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by 12Stepper, Jul 28, 2009
Hi Sarah, Welcome to this safe place. I can't answer your questions about where to get more for tapering off. Perhaps some of the other members have some ideas. Some people have gone to doctors and gotten medications to help them get off Tram. with mixed results (some people found the new drug to be problematic, too). Also some have tried slow tapers and others very quick. Some people felt that slow tapers only extend your misery while others found them useful. If you have time to read the previous threads of this journal, you'll see that almost every method under the sun has been tried.

The important message is that there is hope! There are an amazing number of people who are beating this thing daily--sometimes hourly, sometimes minute by minute, thought by thought, but they are beating it. One benefit I found from reading these is that I realized that it was the Tramadol withdrawal making me feel the way I did and have the (sometimes depressed) thoughts I was having. There's a distinct advantage in knowing what to expect, so you are "in luck" (making the best of a bad, bad situation) in having that information available. I went through the acute withdrawal symptoms about 2 months ago thinking I was losing my mind.

There have been certain non-prescription and natural medicines that people have used to help with symptoms, also outlined in these threads (as you can see we're on page 13 now), and by clicking on "previous" you can find remedies in the posts and even a detox formula. There are those far more qualified than me to discuss these things, and I'm sure someone will answer your questions soon.

You need not feel ashamed. You should congratulate yourself on having the courage to seek help and start the healing process. Thank you for sharing your story with us. You can do this. Keep in touch. Best regards, Linn

Avatar universal
by nancy652, Jul 28, 2009
oh sarah I'm so sorry you're going through this. You do have legitimate pain issues though which you will probably need to address in some way even if it end up being without meds. Ironically I think the Tranadol problem exists because real opiates are underprescribed to those who truly need them. It sems they want to give you everything but. I didn't mention in my post that I have legitimate pain issues as well mainly steeming from an incident quite like yours in childbirth with a tubal that went bad and almost killed me. However,  my T problem has progressed beyond the pain and I want, like you, to be free of this drug.  Linn above gives some great advice. Home detox can be done - I've done it twice while taking care of my children some of whom are still young. In a way it helped to have them around because caring for them takes me out of myself and the detox was never so bad that I couldn't function. Uncomfortable yes. But every experience is different and I can't predict yours. I CAN tell you that this board seems to have helped alot of people and I've begun to see it as an anti Tramadol virus that kind Emily has spread that i now think I have caught. So I'm going to go for it for another day here. Maybe if you posted your dosage and such some others might have some more concrete suggestions. Hugs to you.
Nancy

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by Captain_Backfire, Jul 28, 2009
Thanks so much to you both. I'm amazed at how many people out there are going through the same thing I am. Unfortunately, I don't deal with pain very well, and this is pretty debilitating, making lots of movement nearly impossible. I started with 100mg's a day, which eventually escalated to 200mg's, and now I'm up to 200mg's twice daily. It's insane! I work overnights on the weekends, and sometimes have to take 600mg's all together before I can go to bed because the pain I feel is almost equivalent to being beaten with a baseball bat repeatedly the longer I go without taking them. I feel like crawling into a corner and dying. And then there's Monday's. Oh, wonderful Mondays when my husband gets home from work at 3pm, and I can sleep from then all the way through to the next morning to recover from the weekend. I woke up this morning in such severe pain, I couldn't even get out of bed. My body twitched and shook, my muscles ached, and I had to take 4 mixed with 800mg's of Ibuprofen and wait about 20 minutes before I could even attempt to get myself out of bed. I can't keep doing this. My husband doesn't get it. He thinks nothing could be that serious, and says I'm just exaggerating, but he couldn't be farther from the truth. I don't know how I'm going to do this. I have nobody to watch my baby, and I'm petrified that I'm not going to be able to get off of this drug. I work, take care of a household, take care of my baby, animals, cook, clean, and am relatively poor and unable to take time off to recover. I don't have the luxury of rehab, and I can't just take time off from life. My life never stops, and my job is a 24/7 one. I know this is a terrible pity party I'm expressing, but I'm just so lost and kicking myself in the ass for allowing this to happen.

But I appreciate all your support and welcoming me into this wonderful group. You're all amazing, and apparently MUCH stronger than I am, and I envy you for that. I guess I can only hope that a miracle happens, and I'm able to find some way to get myself off of these damned things. They're definitely the devil in disguise, that's for sure.  

Avatar universal
by mrcrump, Jul 28, 2009
Sarah, I read your post and felt immediate empathy with you. You questioned how you would deal with the back pain off of tramadol, yet in the next sentence you said: "But the pain I'm dealing with from the withdrawals is far worse than what my back pain was."  I believe there is your answer girl. You know you can do it. The point that you are at already is enough to help you quit. Don't you think?  You have already figured out how bad this drug is, you have already said you need to get off this for the sake of you and your family. So go for it. Life is pain. This will be the biggest hurdle in your life, and one that is well worth it. This is your LIFE we are talking about. I suggest highly that you seek a pain management specialist before you are completely out of Tram if you know that your back pain will be too much to bear. Let them know the situation. They are trained for your specific problems. As for your son, only you know what will work. If you have no way to put him in daycare for 3 to 5 days (which is the usual length of severe withdrawal after you quit) then a family member maybe?? You have to figure something out. Yet I can only say so much. It has to be when you are ready to quit and sacrifice. Good Luck to you, Kayde

Avatar universal
by mrcrump, Jul 28, 2009
Sarah, another thing, can you show your husband this post??  My boyfriend didn't get it either, I was like you about six weeks ago. I was the walking dead literally. I showed him this post and he was completely blown away! I never heard another peep out of him about it. Then again, he could have literally no sympathy, which leaves you to yourself. At that point, you should not panic. You need to remember that you only have yourself, and you can only make yourself better. It's going to be hell. Yet, every day we are all here for you. SHare your symptoms, ask us questions. Vent to us. We all did it here, and know what your going through. My point once again, if your husband doesn't "get it" even after showing him the post, then YOU need to do what YOU can to heal yourself. Get prepared for cold turkey, or tapering. Your choice. I guarantee that you make it past this, and all the other small crap that heads your way, won't even faze you.  
                               Save your life.

974630 tn?1248196062
by iontheprize, Jul 28, 2009
I am on day 46 and literally aching for those of you who are suffering while showing great courage by taking a stand against that little white devil.  

Despite that, I had my first intense urge to order more.  I have a billion emails about being “due” for my bucket-o-pills.  I thought I was so sly to have my 180 pill order going with a few companies so as never to run out.  So, I made a list of the things I have truly suffered from over the longest weeks of my life.  I made it in two minutes and everything listed was/is a significant issue.  I wanted to share to remind myself and for any of you wondering about your “mysterious illness” as I did.  

Eye discomfort upon movement, light sensitivity, excruciating joint pain especially in my knees, random stabbing pains, muscle pain, bone pain, severe depression, debilitating fatigue, racing heart, sweats at all times especially at night, chills, sweats and chills at the same time (irritating as hell), disorientation, “morning dread”, fever, sneezing fits, stuffy nose, GI issues, dizziness, weakness, lack of concentration/ability to focus, feeling like things were crawling on me, restless legs, insomnia, and I do believe that I had two hallucinations.  My heart also would race at the sight of a FedEx truck for the first few weeks of being clean.  Ridiculous.  I went through the “acute” stuff for more than ten days.  I have said that I earned it b/c I was taking up to 20 tabs of 50mg per day for at least 18 months; I can't remember.  

That said, how stupid to offer myself up to all of that simply by clicking the “submit” button on a webpage!    

Each day has challenges for different reasons.  I thank Emily for answering my initial question in a heartfelt email that made me realize that THIS community is full of love, support, understanding and non-judgment so that we can be honest, learn, heal and discover life all over again.

~jessica


Avatar universal
by nancy652, Jul 28, 2009
I feel the need to check in again. I really appreciate the thoughts of those like Jessica - 40 some days out - it helps tremendously. I am on schedule. I went to the pool again in my building to try and tire myself out. Amazingly,  I had no worse negative feelings today than I normally do. I am trying to feel positive. It is only the first cut down for me this round so I'm not dealing with the real physical stuff yet - but it was the biggest cut I will make since my taper is now one half to one a day. I know this schedule works for me.
When I was in the pool I was thinking how I will never really like myself until I can control this habit and stop taking these pills. I want to be everything I know I can. Like when I sit across the table from an opponent or client and I look into their eyes I want that person to stare right down to the bottom of me and know that when I talk it's straight - no secrets. Even though my habit has no relation to my work I feel that I will not possess real power and insight, will not have the necessary HEFT so to speak if I have to hide this one more day. I cannot feel my own authority and use it fully until I conquer this habit. I want to be really good at what I do without needing this drug.

Avatar universal
by mrcrump, Jul 28, 2009
nancy652, that was an awesome post. Really hit home with me. Made me cry a little.

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by iontheprize, Jul 28, 2009
I love your conviction Ms Nancy!  It gave me chills when I read, "when I sit across the table from an opponent or client and I look into their eyes I want that person to stare right down to the bottom of me and know that when I talk it's straight -no secrets."  AWESOME!  I'm going to ingest your conviction and hope that I can carry some of it with me, too.

For me, the past two weeks were brutal physically, but I expected it.  I've been in new territory since and sometimes it seems harder.  Kind of like I'm too tired to fight, but am no where near having the all clear to take off the gloves.  I'm having new mind tricks that I have to smack away like "I bet it would be _________ to have a pill now that I don't take them anymore."  What a joke!  Temptation is everywhere.  Learning how to do things without the crutch is hard, that's for sure.  That is why I'm so grateful for the ones that still post that have been free of the stuff for so long, that they email and/or post the things that renew my spirit and determination.  I haven't been a part of this community long, but I do believe that it's already saved me from making a mistake more than once.  I have heartfelt gratitude.

We'll keep fighting together.

~jessica

Avatar universal
by recordcollector, Jul 28, 2009
I keep seeing the words "Fedex" and "delivery".  I didn't know you could order Tramadol like that.  Are these companies legit?

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by iontheprize, Jul 28, 2009
I meant, the first two weeks of withdrawal were brutal....not the past two weeks.  UGH.  I am really looking forward to making sense and not b/c I've proofed a post 5 times (needing 6) before sending.  

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by iontheprize, Jul 28, 2009
Recordcollector, initially you asked about going back on the pills to wean yourself off.  Today you ask about ordering.  That's concerning to me.  Sorry if I'm off....

How are you today?

~jessica

Avatar universal
by mrcrump, Jul 28, 2009
To no one particular,
Today I cleaned my house.
I haven't cleaned my house since I quit Tramadol over 6 weeks ago.
Today I firmly believe that I have caught a glimpse of myself for the first time since I quit Tramadol.
I haven't seen "me" in so long, I feared I was forever changed by this drug.
I have never been through anything harder in my life. I have never been afraid of myself either. When I quit this pill, I had no clue what hell was awaiting me.
As my body began to heal, and detox from this nightmare chemical, I changed in so many ways. Not only physically, but emotionally.
I realized I was no longer invincible. I could be broken, and would be broken forever.
I can explain my withdrawals if I wanted to, but no one will ever know what I really went through. The days that I would rather be dead than alive were horrifying, and something I never want to experience again.  EVER AGAIN.
No person should ever have to suffer like I and so many others have in this God forsaken world we live in.
I have faith in myself now, after so long. I know I can be free again. I don't know when the Devil will loosen it's grip from my neck.  Yet, I do know he can't suffocate me, because I won't let him. I choose Life.
All my love, KS


Avatar universal
by nancy652, Jul 28, 2009
checking in before bed. I am so glad for your kind words. I really hope my actions can match them. This is an awesome place to come and be inspired by everyone's stories. They have made me cry sometimes too. I really appreciate the support. I too love to hear from those who are many days (months) out to know that it's possible even tho I did it when pregnant I knew I would go back. My problem honestly has been a severe psychological dependence if I taper properly. The physical symptoms are bad but not as bad as for some I think. The immodium really helps me and husband (Jack) got me some b12 like Emily suggested father back. Those are awesome posts she made in the early days.
Well 7 tabs for me tomorrow. We'll see how it goes. Have a peaceful night...or as much as you can...wherever you are in your story here. Thanks for listening and responding to me today and for sharing your own stories. It really helps more than anything else I think.

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by 12Stepper, Jul 28, 2009
It's just so nice to see everyone here tonight, Nancy, KS, Jessica, Sarah, RecordCollector, Madtram, Grandmagirl, and ALL others. I love people checking in and letting us know how things are going, and I do so appreciate the posts, even if I don't respond, I listen and wish you the very best night possible. I agree with what so many have said, The addiction and withdrawal from this stuff is like nothing I've ever known. I felt like my soul was being destroyed from within. This board was the only place anyone had even the slightest conception of what was going on. Posting and reading daily was a part of my daily survival plan.

Then I started the exercise thing--a little walk around the block, building up from 20 to 40 minutes, getting my heart rate up and perspiring out the tramadol (my imagination, I'm sure, but it kept me going). When the depression was the main symptom (weeks 2-6), I exercised every day. I was afraid that if I missed, I'd be in worse condition, more vulnerable to those horrible feelings of failure that seemed to descend upon me. Now I really know what it is like to have a chemical imbalance, since there would be no reason I would suddenly feel a profound sadness. I'd have a good day then a bad day with this for what seemed like forever.

Knowing that it was the Tramadol withdrawal causing the depression was my link to sanity. That meant it would pass. Sometimes I just had to put faith in the words of others since I had no faith that this really had an end. Now I am spending about an hour a day swimming and that really seems to chase away the blues. In fact, for about the last 5 days, I've actually felt joy and optimism. This is at about week 7 tram-free. I guess I've developed some good habits (the exercise and meditation, to name a couple, and the resolve to never use this stuff or anything like it) as a result of this nightmare.

Things do get better if you just keep making it through the day. Bless all of you for being here. Linn

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Jul 29, 2009
Hello Tramadol Warriors!!!

I left town for a few days and I don't even recognize the neighborhood.  :)  Reading some clear streams of consciousness here posted by determined folks doing war with this terrible drug.  Anyone going through withdrawal from this drug has my utmost respect and admiration.  

It's hotter than blazes here in Seattle recently.  I know that many of you live in much hotter climates, but folks in the Pacific NW don't do well if it isn't raining and below 80 degrees.   Few have central A/C and the two window units we have here will be doing well to keep the indoor temps below 85 as it reaches over 100 degrees outside these next several days.  Ugh.  

KC, it was so wonderful to read your beautiful posts again.  

You guys are like family.  I'll probably lurk until this weekend when I may feel motivated to write again.  

Courage, strength and love to each of you,,

fred

Avatar universal
by recordcollector, Jul 29, 2009
Hey Jessica

No I am not ordering! :) I just find it incredible that Stateside you can access the drug so easily!  Like, who are these companies?  The ones you see in junk mail?

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by iontheprize, Jul 29, 2009
Recordcollector, I was really worried about where you were at in your mind.  Subconsciously, I worried that I was headed there too.  I wish I could say that my "find" was easy.  It was not.  I worked for it.  Sometimes my determination gets me in trouble, but I'm using it for the good now.  :)  I'm determined to DELETE the emails that came from my ordering online.  So, yes, in the States, you can order online but it's getting harder to do so.  I pray that soon ordering stuff like Tram is no longer an option.  The sites are shady and the go into "hiding" every now and then.  The sites I found are now only available to those who have ordered in the past.  Another concern is that a person may not get what they think they have ordered.  I don't know what would be worse than receiving the poison of Tram.  Have a good day over there in the UK!

Fred, I think that you stayed up too late.  LOL.  That heat must be impacting your sleep.  Hope today is better!

~jessica

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by bjb97, Jul 29, 2009
Hello everyone -- Old Timers and Newbies.  This is where the word "old timer" is a GREAT thing to be.  I have not posted for a while but check in every now and then as I feel this forum is very much what an NA or AA meeting would be for me.

I have been Tram free since March 27.  I did start taking very small (1-4 and sometimes 5) tabs of Vicodin a day for my neck,shoulder, left arm pain and have stopped for a couple of days a couple of times because I am so fearful of becoming addicted and having to face the Withdrawal Demons again!

However, I'm hearing because I'm struggling with a decision that I hope maybe some of you, esp Fred, Madtram, may be able to give me some insight on.  I had a C-7 Nerve Root block 3 weeks ago suggested by my surgeon to see if that was causing my pain.  A recent MRI and X-rays had showed my C-7 disc amd space greatly reduced. The results of the this procedure (C-7 nerve root block) were hopeful in that ALL of the numbing and tingling which had been almost constant in my left arm, left hand and part of my right hand, disappeared completed for 7 days and is only minimal as I speak.  The pain disappeared for about 15 minutes following the surgery and then returned.  This is a normal positive reaction, I guess.   My surgeon and my Fasciatrist (spelling) or Spine Rehab Doc both are about on the same page saying I have two options:

1.  Get an Epidural Injection into the C-7 area which could buy me 6 mo-1 yr of pain free days. The pros for having this would be to:  a:  Buy me some time
          b.  Get off the pain killers immediately is this procedure is successful
          c.  Much less invasive than the option below


2.  Have a total disc replacement which is a fairly new procedure (2 years).    The pros for having this would be to:
          a.  Get it done by this wonderful surgeon.  He has performed two previous surgeries on me and I totally trust him.  There may be a chance we would be moving in the next 6 mos to 1 year and then I would have to find a new surgeon.
          b.  This surgery will most likely HAVE to happen at some point and right now I am in pretty good health and shape and I bounced back VERY quickly from my last two surgeries which were in the last two years.
          c.  I am at a point in my life where I have a job that is very flexible and I could take some time off with no problem to recover.

I guess now that I am cleaning my system out from Vicodin (even though I only had been on it for two months and in small amounts), I am hesitant to have the surgery and have to take it again (or Percocet for that matter).  But, if I bounce back as quickly as I did from my past two surgeries, I should only have to take it for 3-5 days and then get by with Ibuprophen.

I had a C-5/6 Anterior Cervical Fusion in 2007 and then another surgery in 2008 where the doc removed some of the bone in the C-7 disc as it was pinching a nerve.  Thus the region I need a disc replacement and NOT they can't do a fusion.  

I'd appreciate ANY and ALL words of wisdom to help me decide which route I should take.  Especially if any of you have HAD a disc replacement.  I know it is a very new surgery and there isn't much history.  I would BE the history.

Congrats to all here on being so strong and courageous in your battle with Tramadol.  You should all be so proud of yourselves.  Those of you in early withdrawal or doing tapers, please remember the old cliche' . . . What doesn't kill us . . . .

because I know from experience that some days you WISH you were dead and think you can't make it through the next hour.  It is horrible but everyone here with time between them and Tram can tell you it WILL get better and you will be SO extremely proud of yourself from beating this Demon Drug.





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by EmilyPost, Jul 29, 2009
Option one bjb

Don't be the History.

That'd be my choice.  Because you are so newly off tramadol and still on some form of pain killers, I don't trust your pain pattern as "real" or leitimate. I say this based on the fact that I had terrible nerve pain (I have S1 neuropathy as the result of a car accident) and Tramadol made it worse. The withdrawal made it worse. The pattern now is less terrible. A year later.

I'd wait.

((((((((((bjb)))))))))

Avatar universal
by nancy652, Jul 29, 2009
I'm still here. Today is 7. Last night husband got me banana juice which helped for some reason. As you all know mornings are often the worst - they are bad for me anyway. Last night was actually fine - I craved protein so I ate a bacon and cucumber sandwich. The salt helped too. Also I have a very few tranzene at the lowest dose, one of which I split before bed. I have at various points in my life taken small amounts of prescribed benzos due to panic disorder (the disorder started at 5! the atttempt to treat then didn't begin till college. They still don't know if it is panic or temporal lobe problems). Anyway, in short, I do not have a problem with taking them for a prescribed period at a low dose. Otherwise I would not be  taking them nor would I tell a T user to use them. However, these have a very long half life which can help in both opiate and alcohol withdrawl. Since I'm journaling I need to be clear exactly what I'm doing.
So...cold sweats and dread this a.m....but to be honest I have a bad feeling everyday cause of not being able to stop these pills, so it was no worse than that. And I don't know if anyone saw "King of the Hill" last night...it is a somewhat silly show on Cartoon Network...you know...any port in a storm. I find it comforting to lie in bed with my daughter and snuggle and watch silly stuff when I am vulnerable. Anyway, they all got addicted to smoking. Ity was really quite touching how it was portrayed. And they showed them huddled together with the withdrawl, which of course they beat...and the next morning it was fresh and clean outside after a storm and they hadn't smoked and...that was good enough. I had a glimpse of that yesterday at the pool. Please let me be there. BJ, I, RC Emily Fred, new folks thanks for being here.


Avatar universal
by nikinicol, Jul 29, 2009
WOW!! Somehow I came across this. I've been on tramadol/ultram for a long time now. I know it has side affects, but this is crazy!! It scares me to stop taking it now. This explains why i don't sleep, anxiety, I feel like I'm not there sometimes. But what's weird., my dr will put me on vicodin (not often) but it doesn't take away my back pain like the tramadol. This has been the only thing that works. I take it twice a day= 200mg. I'm not on it at all right now, but I am on perc. and flexaril. I'm not sure what to do. Will it be easier to get off of this?? Seeing these stories is scaring me. Any advice would be great.

Avatar universal
by mrcrump, Jul 29, 2009
nikinicol, stop them as soon as you possibly can. You have read what the drug has put us all through. My suggestion, read previous posts for inspiration, make a plan to be "bed-ridden" for 3 to 5 days and ride out the storm. Sounds easy enough right? Not so much. were all here for you. I hope for the best for you. -Kayde

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by Captain_Backfire, Jul 29, 2009
Thanks so much to everyone here. You guys are more inspiration than you can ever possibly imagine. I'm usually not one for going to the doctor, but I've finally made the decision that it's probably the best thing to do with my lifestyle and the way things go in my household. I don't have the ability to take time off, so I'm going to have to ween myself off by tapering, and I'm praying to God it's not nearly as bad as the feelings of cold turkey. Maybe he can help me to find something to take the edge off too that's not addictive. I've heard Valium (or however that's spelled) Is supposed to be very helpful, and thanks for the tip on bananas. I'm headed out today after my hubby gets home to buy myself some.

I envy all of you who have gotten yourself out of the devil's forest of agonizing pain that taking tramadol has caused. I wish to God, for other people who are just as naive as I was, that someone speaks up and gets this drug off the market. Granted, there are some people out there who don't experience the withdrawals as most of us have, but I know for myself that I would rather go through childbirth with quads than deal with this. This is the most agonizing pain I've ever dealt with in my life, and I relapsed this morning. My baby wanted to play with me, and as I sat there involuntarily twitching, sweating, and buckling over in excruciating pain, I burst into tears and reached for my purse where I keep my T's. I didn't want my son to see me like that, and I just couldn't hack it anymore. The pain was so overbearing, it took over my entire being and made me an absolutely horrible person to my little boy. I never want to lash out on him like I did this morning EVER again. It's not his fault. I just hope others find this site sooner than I did, and get themselves off this horrible drug before it's too late.

Thank you all for being amazing examples of strength, and I truly hope I can beat this as some of you have.

Avatar universal
by nancy652, Jul 29, 2009
oh Sarah really it is much easier tapering - I've done it twice and while it is uncomfortable it was certainly doable - but you have pain issues besides the tolerance so a doctor may be necessary and very very helpful. There are ways to do this with a doctor's help and medications that make it easier. I am taking one of them - a mild sedative. I have alot of experience with it and know my limits and what I can and can't do medicinally. Frankly, I do not even having a craving for the real opiates and have never abused them. Go figure. But you honey need to address your pain issues. And be gentle on yourself - we have all yelled at our children and not been the parents we want. You are trying very, very hard. It is not actually a relapse to treat your pain - it seems you are not happy with the meds with which you are doing so. I think in your case a doctor is really important. And you need a good one. I would not be presenting myself as someone who is just having a problem with Tramadol. You have a problem with pain and Tramadol. Can you find someone sympathetic and nonjudgmental to help you ween off and then deal with your legitimate pain issues? I am worried that someone curt will not be treating the whole "you".
For myself I am ready to take my final dose to complete seven for today. I am not suffering much physical withdrawl on the present taper schedule - the first day of it was worst so I must have been up to more than 10 when I cut back to 8. I have enough to make it down to 0 on the present schedule over the next two weeks.  If you decide to taper Sarah I know many on this board will give you lots of tips to help till you get to the doctor. Immodium is a must in my opinion. It curbs cravings tremendously. Vitamin b12 does seem to help. benadryl helps some but not others. It sometimes irritates me to add the tiredness on top of the sleepiness but I like to have it on hand. In your good moments make yourself a nest - the one place in the house where you can collapse when things get awful. A clean bed with some botlles of water and the remote for the tv and toys and snacks for the baby with whatever meds you need at hand  (in a place out of reach from baby of course) rest. Take 10 minutes and arrange that. Then use that spot as much as possible. Just worry about that spot and a clean bathroom. Hot baths help very very much. I myself cannot do this overnight. I am going for a lifestyle change so I am doing the taper. I'm still taking the meds - I can't feel guilty about it. It's a process. That what you need with some help: a process. Hugs.
Nancy

Avatar universal
by BVD660, Jul 29, 2009
Hey Becky (bjb),

I think I agree with Em on this one...option one.  Option two in my opinion
should be the very last option when all other options have failed. You don't
want to be the history or statistic on option 2.

Boe

Avatar universal
by jekorb, Jul 29, 2009
Hello, Fighting Friends:

This is near the end of Day 4 on Suboxone\off Tramadol for me.  Blaine/43panther is much farther ahead of me in recovery with Sub., but I am proud to be this far along.  I am a tiny bit less tired each day so far, still fighting the come-and-go headaches (Extra-Strength Tylenol works great!) and am SO thirsty and can't drive due to some dizzyness.  My family has been very, very supportive~~~I haven't had to do anything but recover since Sunday.  I am so lucky and so blessed.  The best thing is that there are NO cravings whatsoever.....something I fought tooth and nail with in the past but never won, mainly b/c I didn't seek out support or counselling.  I hoped I could go to NA this week, but can't due to the dizzyness, so maybe next week, but have been e-mailing my support-person almost everyday and am plowing through the NA hardbound book and..........praying!  Everything has helped.  I was kind of worried that w/o the memory of a bad withdrawal, I might not have the ability to stay clean in the future, no matter what I said about it now.  However, I wouldn't want to repeat this Suboxone therapy again, so that'll be my "don't ever get into drugs again!" impetus.  

Blessings to all of you and my prayers,
Joan

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by madtram, Jul 29, 2009
Dear Becky, this is a tough one.  Do you feel that your post withdrawal pain & dysfunction has pretty much returned to the same level as pre tramadol or worse?

I agree with Em that it's still early days for u in many respects but I also get that you have the opportunity to have the surgery with a surgeon you are comfortable with at a time when it's less inconvenient.

Re the surgery risk itself, although Cervical Disc Replacement is new to Australia & the US, more than 6,000 cases have been performed in Europe & it is not regarded as an experimental operation there.

  However, factors such as patient suitability for the procedure are critical to a successful outcome & this usually comes from the learning acquired by doing lots of cases.

Can your surgeon give you a summary of the outcomes of the procedure to date, based on the data from other countries?  There are quite a few reviews, most recently, an Italian review in J Bone Joint Surg Br. 2009 Jun;91(6):713-9.

The technology & outcomes will only continue to improve with these procedures so if u can get sufficient relief from a nerve block, there is a lot to be said for deferring the surgery decision.

Happy to help refer u to more info, if needed.

Best wishes,
M

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by bjb97, Jul 29, 2009
Thanks so much for your comments and input Madtram, Emily and Boe.  I am doing research online as well and I may even get a 3rd opinion from the physician that performed my C-7 nerve root block.  He had requested that I come back for a nerve conduction study initially, but when I experience zero numbness and tingling for 7 days following the procedure and very, very minimal even now, 3.5 weeks later, he said there was no need for the nerve conduction study.

If I do have the surgery which would probably be a month or 6 weeks, I will be VERY careful with the amount of painkillers I take and get off them ASAP.  My goal now that I'm clean for 4 days is to stay off them until the surgery no matter how much discomfort I'm feeling.  My withdrawal symptoms from being on the small amount of Vicodin I've been on for the past two months have been very small compared to the horrible 7 days I went through with the Tram.  I'm not looking as that as "Oh, well then I guess withdrawing from Vicodin is not anywhere close to Tramadol" because I don't want to fall into that mindset.  I know it probably is much, much worse after higher doses and longer use.

My surgeon suggested I take Ibruprophen or Aleve every day regardless of how I feel which I have been doing and the pain really has not been too bad at all.  I'm really limited my activity however and trying not to do anything to inflame the area which would lead to more pain.

Thanks again all for the input.



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by bjb97, Jul 29, 2009
Madtram -- I realized I did not respond to the first question you asked in your response.  My pain level is at the same or greater level than pre-tramadol plus the numbing and tingling (before the nerve root block) was much worse.  And I find myself beginning to drop things or lose my grip.  It is my left arm that is the most affected and I am left-handed.  It scares me that I could eventually have permanent nerve damage if I do not have the surgery soon.

Becky

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by kevzx81, Jul 29, 2009
captain backfire- valium is very addictive :(

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Jul 30, 2009
BJB,  Enjoying the heat are we?  I'm with the others, on holding off on disc replacement surgery. I am not a medical professional, but I would want to see the docs get good and practiced up before trying having this done on myself at the moment.    Especially if you hare having relief with nerve blocks.  Of course I underwent hip replacement surgery at an early age for the relief Ifelt that I  needed, so I speak with a forked tongue I suppose.

Boe, good hearing from you again my friend.  Your words are always an encouragement here.  I hope you know that.

Nancy, welcome and congrats on 7 days off this awful drug.  I want to spend more time reading both your posts and "recordcollectors" this weekend.  You both write so elequently and frame this tram-a-problem so strongly/well.  

I agree that IF A PERSON CAN DO IT, a slow taper might cause less pain than C/T.  However, each person needs to be realistic with themselves - know themselves before stopping this drug.  I could not have done a slow taper.  I have a far too addictive personality to expect that " a little less each day " would be acceptable.  

For six years I borrowed tomorrow's pills TODAYwith only the best intentions to repay my supply before the RX ran out.  Except that I regularly found myself with more days left before I could re-order than I had pills.  As my body built up TOLERANCE, such that I needed more of the drug just to feel less UNWELL, I found mysaelf in utter agony the last week of EVERY RX cycle for years.  

Regardless of what else this pill was taking from me, I just decided that if I could tough it out for 4-5 days and be done, I might NEVER have to repeat that ugly last week of every cycle EVER again.  And sure enough, that terrible horrible 4-5 days has paid dividends this past EIGHT months.  It is SO worth the moments of agony to be DONE with this drug.

I know that for people like me, a taper will not be easier.  

I know that for people like me, a planned taper would have set myself up to post mixed successes and failures for weeks or months, only to eventually drop out of sight - a defeated user, unable to become free of the little white pill.

But what the heck, I always recommend a person TRY a taper.  See how it works for you.  It DOES work for some, but nobody get's out of here painlessly.  Except maybe by swaping addictions.  

In a few weeks, you should have a pile of extra pills as you reduce your daily dose.  But if you find yourself doing what I did - borrowing tomorrow's pills TODAY, never able to repay the debt, consider cold turkey.  Once and done I say.  Nuff said I suppose...

Jessica,  Yeah old Fred is staying up late these days, but keep in mind, the time of my posts is actually a few hours earlier than what the clock here says.  I'm WEST coast time ya know.  It hit 103 here in Seattle and there is no cooling off in the forcast.  Ugh. I suppose I'll need to invest in central air instead of rain boots if this keeps up.  :)

mrcrump,  You said,"todayI firmly believe that I have caught a glimpse of myself for the first time since I quit Tramadol.
I haven't seen "me" in so long, I feared I was forever changed by this drug.
I have never been through anything harder in my life. I have never been afraid of myself either. When I quit this pill, I had no clue what hell was awaiting me."  

YES but you are making it.  (((hugs)))   I am so proud for you that with so much happening, you haven't resorted to the fog machine drug.

"weeks and weeks"...

I have said this before and I want to say it again.  EVERYONE here is on the cutting edge of finding our own ways to recovery from this misunderstood dangerous  drug.  I consider myself and YOU ALL fortunate that we found this place (thank you Em!). Even when I arrived in December the traffic here was faily slow.  But people ARE finding hope and help in growing numbers.  The stories you share may just be the only story that another "unseen friend" coming after you ever can relate to.  So keep the posts coming.  After all, there are MILLIONS of good people still trapped by this drug.

A life is a terrible thing to waste.  I am happy to report that there IS life after tramadol.  

Good Night to all (I hope!) -  fred

Avatar universal
by girlfriendinwisconsin, Jul 30, 2009
OK….this is it.  It is four o’clock in the morning and I took my last oxycodone at midnight.  My husband just left to pick up his buddy to go to the north woods of upper Michigan to get away for eight days from the everyday madness and I begin my journey to…and through hell.  I say through because I will come out on the other side.  I have to.  My intake is every six hours, but the drug is now wearing off at hour three.  I could take more and more frequent (I pay nothing and my medical history is such that  my doctors’ will give me whatever I want)  but going up the ladder seems asinine.  When you get to the top and need to go higher what then?  So yeah…here’s where I exit the senseless climb.

I feel like I need to apologize to everyone here for invading a tramadol site with an oxycodone addiction.  I’ve  left here with that feeling thinking that there must be a forum like this for my poison withdrawal.  And I’ve been to many, but I keep coming back here.  The people here even the newbies seem to be more “with it” while losing their minds (or regaining it) then elsewhere. (could it be that tramadol offers that…..nah my bad)   I’m sensing that tramadol has it’s unique sneaky, soul gripping hell which thanks to this forum I will never have to go through.  So I don’t want to depreciate that awareness by adding my oxy story, but I need the honesty and detail that’s here. I've already begun to experience what many of you have posted.  As I’ve said I’m new to the chemical addiction and withdrawal world, I’m scared and mere information, while helpful won’t cut it for me when I’m in the throes of this.  So here I be.  grandmagirl, thank you for your kindness and encouragement for me to stay.  I just got your personal notes, didn’t know about them ‘till I checked my secondary email.  Yes, I have quite a medical history.  But honestly, I don’t know if it’s old age or the immediacy of the situation or just the effect of the drug, but I’m more fearful right now, feeling less brave, than I was facing cancer or any of the spinal cord surgeries or results.  

I’m so tired of fighting this broken body.  I want to sleep but I’m afraid to wake up, I'm already hurting, I'm very stiff and have sharp pains in my gut..gosh what will tomorrow hold?


738790 tn?1377724594
by KC67, Jul 30, 2009
Hi Girlfriend,
Glad you are sticking around.  

As for this being a Tramadol forum - yes, it is, but once I kicked Tramadol, I then wanted to kick my benzo habit.  So I too stuck around for support.  Also, Tramadol withdrawal has many similarities to opiate withdrawals - so bottom line...

You are here in a safe place with lots of positive support from people who "know your pain" and "have been there".

Best of luck to you.  You can do this and come out on the other side of Hell a stronger person.

Sincerely with hope and love,
KC


Avatar universal
by racekahr, Jul 30, 2009
girlfriendinwisconsin,
I'm sure you are scared right now. I'm sure you're sick. I just want you to know that EVERYTHING WILL BE OKAY. Secondly, I want to ask if you have ever taken Tramadol? I ask you this, but I want you to know that Tramadol is WORSE and MORE DANGEROUS than oxycodone, but it could still be what saves you if you take it with the upmost respect. I am a guy who has popped 10-16 blue hydrocodone 10's for over two years, but I have got off both times with the help of Tramadol. The first time getting off the lortabs was over a year ago and I took tramdol for about 25 days because I was scared if I stopped I would still get sick. The thing is, I took too much each day for those 25 days and when I quit, I was a mess. Tramadol w'd will make you go crazy for a few days if you have taken substantial amounts.
Recently though, I was back on the hydrocodone for the last year and have spent the last 11 days off Lortabs while barely taking Tramadol to help me for about the first four days and then tapering down to about a quarter of a pill over two days ago. Yesterday, my tenth day off hydrocodone, was my first day without anything in over 15 months! I am some w'd's from the tramadol, but it is VERY, VERY minimal and I suspect it will be short lived as I barely feel it. I just know I have some sneezing and some soreness. This time getting off of hydrocodone has been much better because I took the Tramadol with the upmost respect for it and it has successfully acted as a great drug to help someone get off of hydrocodone.
Now the question: Will it help a oxy withdrawal? I think so. I took oxy's every now and then, when I could get my hands on them and they definitely raise your opiate tolerance. But with an extra tramadol or two to get you thru the first two or three days off oxy, you could possibly do this. After taking them for five days, get down to one or so and drop down from that one for two or three days until you are off it. Don't mess with the tramadol! It don't play! Like I stated before, I took it irresponsibly over a year ago and I paid big time for it! Worse than any oxy or hydro withdrawal. But if you take it with great respect and restraint, you can possibly get off a oxy addiction with it.
Now you must get your doctor to prescribe it, but you said you could. I'd suggest to go that route. A cold turkey detox off oxycodone will be too painful.    



Avatar universal
by racekahr, Jul 30, 2009
To add to my above post, I would ask your doctor for just about 30 tramadol. Tell him you want to get off of an oxy addiction. I wouldn't take more tramadol than that and make sure you leave about the last 10 pills to really taper down the tramdol intake. DO NOT TAKE TRAMADOL FOR ANY LONGER THAN a week or so! It may help you if you do it right. Again, I was taking 16 blue lortab 10's a day for the last 15 months and am now on my second day of total sobriety without feeling all that ill. I'm really doing great considering what could have been!

Avatar universal
by nancy652, Jul 30, 2009
thank you so much Fred. I just want to say I wish I was seven days off,  I am not. I am on the taper schedule. Today is 6 and one half. But thank you so much for your thoughts. I agree that for some CT is really the best way. Even with the taper it is very difficult as you stated. this morning is not great.
Welcome girlfriend. I am a newbie but I'm where you are so I really welcome you. At the end of the day,  we're all here for the same reason.
This morning I woke up with lots of the dreaded cold sweat,  my absolute least favorite symptom. Ha! Like any are fun. But the sweat and chills are awful. And I live in Florida so I don't know whether to stand on the porch in the sun or run to the coldest part of the house. I took some immodium which normally helps with this but it's not perfect. I am,  however,  functioning albeit on slow speed. I got a slow start which I can do because I work at home. That is a blessing today.
I wish I had some amazing thoughts to take the pain out of everyone's suffering.  Nights are better for me (before I actually have to sleep) and I spent last night thinking up a list of what I will not miss when I stop taking this drug. I really like those lists like others have done. I will post it later since now isn't my best time. Hugs to all...if it helps. Whatever helps...except you know what.

895630 tn?1273803653
by 12Stepper, Jul 30, 2009
Just a quick note to give encouragement to everyone trying to put another day between you and Tram. In a way we are having to pioneer this recovery process--sharing our symptoms, finding what works. As Fred said, we're on the cutting edge of the process. Mrcrump, it really is great to hear you finding glimpses of yourself (((Yeah!)))). It has been a difficult journey--between w/d from the opiate aspect and the anti-depressant aspect--what a double whammy!

I'm about 7 weeks tram-free, and my hope is increasing every day. I believe that if we stay on course, glimpses will turn into a vision of a life full of possibilities. All set to make it through another day, Warriors, all the best to you!

920332 tn?1249058142
by Mousiee, Jul 30, 2009
I put the half and half in the cabinet lol.

984541 tn?1250933414
by Captain_Backfire, Jul 30, 2009
Fred, I just have to say, you are a pillar of strength, and I both admire and envy that. If I knew I could handle cold turkey without going completely insane, I'd do it. But with the amount of stress in my life already, I know I'd lose my mind. Nancy, you're an amazing woman, and I always give credit where credit is due. You'll make it out of the woods, as we all eventually will, I suppose we all just have our own way of doing so.

I myself am at a loss currently, as I'm down to 3 pills with a refill that won't be ready until the the second week of August. I'm in for a whole world of hurt if I can't find a way to get a refill faster. More than likely, I'm just going to have to find a doctor that will take me as a new patient right away, and explain my story. Hopefully I'll luck out on the first try and find a doctor who actually knows what he's doing, and will do the best for me that is possible out there.

kevzx81, Thank you for that. I've never taken Valium, so I had no idea. I've actually never really taken that many pain killers. I just know that my allergies to Vicodin and Oxycodone are terrible, and make me unable to take them. About the only thing I can take that doesn't make me sick is Percocet (sp), which really sucks because not many doctors are willing to just dish that out.

Either way, I'm going to throw myself into a hot bath whenever possible, and I'm so grateful for all your tips on things to use. What exactly does the immodium do? I already have IBS with constipation, so I'm wondering what the side affects would be on my bowels.... as I usually don't 'go' for between 5-7 days. Unless I continue with my fiber and whatnot. I suppose I'll have to test it out and see what happens. If it doesn't mesh well with my body, I'll just have to question as to a better route.

I already see you guys as family, as I feel so close to you all through this chapter in my life. Thank you all just for being. We'll all come out stronger after this, I just know it.

Sarah

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jul 30, 2009
On Tuesday I had to go for a follow up appointment with the MD. Ack!  Stabba! The one I saw 6 months ago is Gonzo, so that was good news, since he was horrible and didn't have even half a clue about Tramadol, much less Klonopin. He actually argued with me about Tramadol and told me it wasn't addictive and didn't cause withdrawal. So; yeah. I'm possibly the worst person on Earth to start that argument with huh?

Now. No one hates going to the Doctor more than I do. Little children like it more than I do. I have to literally do yoga breathing in the waiting room or I'll run away or have my blood pressure so increased they think I'm about to keel over and die. I have white coat hypertension and am surrounded by idiots who don't know what that is.

So, I waited in a horrible chair in the waiting room with 7 other people. Even though I had an appointment, and these were walkins ... I waited. They tried to charge me for a free followup. Actually they took the money and then the MD made them give me back my money. I'm a cash patient. One of the great uninsured of America.

So, no exam. No weighing in. No Blood pressure taken. Nothing. MD Dude didn't lay a glove on me. good! And yet, bad? The guy interviewed me. Now I admit, this pleased me and also upset me. All he did was basically interview me. It went like this.

"I'm doing better, I am not on any pills. No pain killers."

MD says, "Oh that's good because the pain pills will eventually KILL YOU ANYHOW."

*long strange surreal pause*

I say, 'I'm also off Klonopin."

He says, as he looks over my paperwork, the nerve conduction test and the MRI ... "How are you able to work with this condition? I mean, how are you able to function?"

And that ladies and beans is when I went into full on shock. I mean, the whole admission of the fact that pills will eventually kill you was possibly enough to mess me up. But then add that?

I mean, this guy was ... in his 60's? and not a Jack LaLanne in his 60's! He looked like he'd been taking all the pills I haven't. I think I always secretly or not so secretly have contempt for a health care provider who looks unhealthy. Not to mention the number of hospital/clinic workers I have seen standing outside their offices smoking and eating Ding Dongs.

And then he kinda messed with my head.

I mean, yeah, how I function while living with pain is a good question. But ... he implied that I shouldn't be ok to work, to do what I do.  I mean, no matter what this appointment was going to be bad. But come on? WTH? WTH does that even mean? I felt like i should tell him to step on the scale and then give him a lecture about fruits and veggies and yoga.

So I tell this Yahoo (who is way less of a yahoo than that last one) that as long as I stay as healthy as I can, don't lift stuff, and don't do anything crazy my back remains tolerable. The whole experience should have been relatively pain free, but it sent me into a 48 hour long spin. Yesterday I was in klonopin withdrawal all over again. My back hurt. It's stress ladies and germs ... stress. It aggravates nerve conditions so much! I am assuming that happens because stress with strip B-vitamins faster than you can say, "Sit down and wait in this waiting room for an hour and a half."

So I should have taken a day off yesterday, but didn't. I'm moving slowly towards "my normal life." I have days where I have completely recovered. Then I have a day thrown in where the stress of working 12 hours, with all the free time taken up by say ... a doctor's appointment ... knocks me down.

the good part of the experience was the article I read on people who run 100 mile races. They have pacing partners. people who run the equivalent of a marathon with the person who is crazy enough to run a 100 mile race. The Pacers have this really distinct personality. They are encouraging, hilarious, and irreverant. They do whatever it takes to get their runner to finish. I was thinking this morning that A job Pacing sounds like my kinda thing.

ok so onward ...

(((Sarah))) You know, it's so important to know what you are capable of and when. I admire you knowing that you need to taper.  I knew when I started that I was going to go Cold turkey. It just ... wouldn't work any other way for me. I didn't quite know how bad it would be. What I knew was that ... I wouldn't be taking any more pills. Eventually.

The Immodium AD (get the AD ... crucial ...) blocks the worst withdrawal symptoms. Like "Oh My God I am DYIng1" level of symptoms. It occupies the opiate receptors in the gut. It is ... really helpful. And yes, if you take too much, you'll get constipated. I didn't know about Immodium til ... day 17? of my cold turkey. I thought it was for intestinal symptoms only. You can also get the generic brand at the dollar stores. It works as well as long as you have the same active ingredient as the Immodium AD.

Girlfriendin Wi you are more than welcome here. I have come off Tramadol, soma, flexeril, vicodin, codiene, morphiene, xanax, propananol, buspar, amytriptolin, and klonopin. I am sure I missed one or two there. It's just a recovery thread. Sort of. With an intense hatred focus on Tramadol. LOL! It's really just about getting off the ladder huh?

You'll be ok.

I promise.

I'm ok. I function really well most days! I get stuff done. I'm not making massive forward steps. BUT I am not exactly floating on my back staring at the sky in the pool. (God that sounds awesome!) I am more like treading water after a near drowning experience and surviving a shark attack.

You all can do it! We're here to help!

Love and Healing,
Emily

910168 tn?1262466069
by Lillyval, Jul 30, 2009
Hi Everyone, I've been in communication with a couple of Tram Warriors via messages, but I guess it's time I "come clean" to everyone.  A couple of weeks ago during a weak moment- with one fateful click of the mouse I refilled my tram prescription - that is a 90 day refill.  When I got it I swore I wouldn't get back into a daily habit, but I was soon up to 200 mg/day.  I've been too ashamed to admit it and I can't believe the hell of my withdrawal wasn't enough to stop me from going down that road again.

Anyway, long story short, when 200mg became an occasional 300mg I decided enough was enough (before I got back up to 600).  I know I'm faced with withdrawals again, not to mention how long it will take me to get back to "normal" once I get off of this poison.  I called my doctor's office again to state more strongly that I was addicted to tramadol.  If anyone remembers what I went through last time, my doctor just pretty much blew it off and I was told "just don't get the refill."  I got a new PA this time and she said she would cancel my prescription and she wrote me a strict tapering schedule, during which I have to call and check in with her.  (I'm sure this also means that she flagged me as a pill addict on my file, but so be it, it's true).  

I know a lot of people here (myself included) don't have a lot of use for doctors who hand this stuff out like it's nothing.  But for me I need the accountability to someone (besides my husband, who thinks I'm a hopeless case).  I need to not have those endless refills (which were once an addicts dream come true) out there just waiting for me to have a weak moment.  

I appreciate all of the support I've gotten here.  I continue to read the posts here daily and gain wisdom from everyone's story.
I wish you all health and healing,
Lilly

Avatar universal
by nancy652, Jul 30, 2009
well Sarah...I agree. And thanks for the kind words. I think you really need a doctor in the next two days. Barring that, an ER visit might help, but if you disclose your tolerance, you might be unfairly judged. Acute, legitimate pain may help you get a holdover dose of something,  but if your allegeries may bar that. In fact, if they don't know your problem they may actually give you some T considering your allergies. But I don't know where you live. Different parts of the country treat these things very differntly. And of course,  if you want to stop the last thing you want is a huge scrip of T. My goal would be to try to get a the smallest dose of T possible so you may plan a taper with, ideally, a doctor. Some might say cold turkey time. I agree that can work too. I just worry about your legitimate pain issues.
Immodium counteracts the diarreah that can accompany opiate withdrawl. Amazingly immoudium binds to many of the same opiate receptors but there is no high because it does not cross the blood brain barrier. I have read of doctors that reccommend its use as well. It helps my other withdrawl symptoms immensely. However, if you have IBS I'm not sure the effect. The T is already messing with your system and constipating it,  though I'm not sure if it does it as badly as the other opiates. My guess is that 3 pills will not get you far. Let us know what you plan to do. If it's cold turkey you need a plan right now today.

ok some things I won't miss about taking T:

1. Counting pills.
2. Counting pills in my head.
3. Recounting the pills and borrowing from tomorrow's dose again.
4. Finding out that they give T to animals for chronic pain. Wondering if I can score off my sister-in-law's dog in an emergency since he's on 100m's a day.
5. Wondering if I could doctor shop (vet shop) with my siamese cat as a front man cause he's pretty small and we'd need alot of doctors to make sure the dose was high enough for me (ok,  maybe I wouldn't really do this :)

I'll continue later...kids need me. Maybe I got a smile from you though.

Avatar universal
by mrcrump, Jul 30, 2009
Mousiee, that's nothin' puttin the half and half in the cupboard. Don't feel bad, I was holding my very small dog in one arm and the milk jug in the other, and I put my dog (Mr.Crump) in the fridge!!! lol I didn't realize it until I got to the couch and set the milk down!!  He was almost a pupcicle. My bad!!  He didn't talk to me the rest of the day!!  Hang in there everyone, I just read all the posts and there is alot of stress and pain going around this forum. Let's take it one minute at a time. Sarah, Fred, 12stepper, nancy652, racekahr, KC67, girlfriendinwisconsin, jekorb, madtram, I'm thinking of you all, hang in there. Be strong.  All my love, KS & Mr.Crump

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jul 30, 2009
hehehehehe is that a small dog in the refrigerator or am I hallucinating?

Avatar universal
by nancy652, Jul 30, 2009
Everyone was posting at the same time. Emily is is actually a treat when you post. You are like a star here. Lillyval I have been so encouraged by you...don't give up. And MrCrump that is hilarious. Poor pup!

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jul 30, 2009
Ok still laughing about the Siameser being the front man for the Tramadol Seeking Nancy :D

738790 tn?1377724594
by KC67, Jul 30, 2009
Emily, I happen to be looking for a "hilarious, irreverant, encouraging pacer".  If you want the job...it's yours!

Yes, the people we know and trust to be our doctors are .....human.  Not that that is any excuse for ignorance, but unfortunately, I have found that it is up to us to know our own bodies and (sometimes) educate the "professionals".  Sad but true.  Good for you for being wise enough to realize the dichotomy of the doctor's words.

After my final appt. with "Dr. Pill-pusher", I realized that she only wanted to prescribe me MORE pills.  She just couldn't understand how I was functioning without the pills.  WTH????

Yes, I still have pain, but I have learned new techniques over the past few months (i.e. vitamins, eating good food, exercise, not being too hard on myself) that have been a MUCH better substitute for the pain than the stinkin' pills.  I can't speak for everyone here.  I just know that for me, my pain has been manageable without pills and my psyche has been 1,000% better without the mind-numbing, mood-altering, fog-increasing Tramadol or benzo's.

Lilly - it's okay.  You are being honest and that's such a huge step.   I am sure there are so many who can relate to the desire to click "re-order" on the endless emails we receive from the online drug-pushers.  

It take a LOT of time to recover from the talons of this drug called Tramadol.  "Weeks and weeks" as Fred has said many times.  Not just the first 5 days.  Not even the first 60 days.  For me, at day 60, I was just BEGINNING to feel somewhat free from the clutches of Tramadol.  There were times when I thought, "KC, you are 60 days out....surely you can learn to pace yourself...click "re-order"...you are stronger than you think you are...you will never go back to daily use."

But I know myself now.   I know that I could never just take a few Tramdols every once in awhile.  Tramadol is too powerful for me.  They mess with my physical body AND my emotions (serotonin, norepinephrine, and brain chemicals).  I believe I could be hooked after only 1 week - so I don't recommend using Tramadol as a substitute for ANY drug.  For me, they are just too powerful.

My best too everyone.  I am pulling for all of you!

Sincerely with hope and love,
KC

Avatar universal
by jekorb, Jul 30, 2009
Three-quarters of the way thru Day 5 of Sub-therapy---each day a bit better, no doubt about it, Fie-on-Tram Friends!  I've never experienced RLS but had leg pain last night and could not find a single comfortable position, so had to get up and walk around a bit.  Was this RLS??  I thought RLS was tingly--a "jimmy leg" thingy.  Maybe that's not what I had.  Took two x-tra strength Tylenols at 4:30 a.m. and went right back to sleep.  The dizziness is MUCH less.  Told Husband I kind of had a "foofy" feeling in my head.  He said, "Another new word, huh?".  I could have driven the car today, but will wait till tomorrow just to be on the safe side.  NO cravings, praise God.  Sub does cause some constipation, so ate more than my share of fruit today.  I'm behind on my journal, so will have to catch up this evening.  I expect, barring anything unforeseen, that I will be doing pretty well by the time my baby boy gets married on Aug. 14th.  Hope I'll have been able to poop by then---LOL!  

I am remembering you all in my Rosary.  God's blessings!

Joan

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jul 30, 2009
I haven't met any human Doctors here in California.  They are all incredibly arrogant pill pushers.

I've had quite a few arguments with people over the last few weeks regarding Michael Jackson.

Now. How in the world can any Doctor justify the sheer amount of pills and injections designed to knock someone out during surgery that this man was getting?

Let's frame the argument.

"Well, he was rich. So if anyone said NO, they would be fired."

OK yes, if you have money you can get pills. But not Legally. Plus, There's this little thing called the Hippocratic OATH. An Oath.

In which the main gist (beyond the crazy stuff about Apollo) is;

Do No Harm.

Now. How is it not harmful to "layer pills?' Which is what happened to me. One pill to take away one symptom, which leads to side effects which leads to more pills.

Do No Harm in no way covers someone being so rich that they get *that* amount of pills.

The whole, "Well he wanted the pills," Is also not the point. What he wants is not to end up dead due to someone giving this man everything he wanted.

The reason we have doctors and licensing and pharmacy's and the freakin' DEA is so that someone SOMEONE will say ... "WTH? Why is this person getting this many pills?"

And someone should have.

This is a perfect example of how many people didn't do their job. Didn't follow protocol and didn't say No.

I've always said it is more dangerous to have excellent insurance than to have no insurance. At least, in this country.

But please note; I'm still stupid angry like red hot fire coals shooting steam outta the mouth of an angry tiger Mad about the number of MD's who "helped me."

Like you KC, my last Doc ... Doctor Groovy ... he was a Benzo pusher. Now ... in my mind, that makes him worse than a person dealing street drugs. Yes, those are my Benzo-Rage feelings at the moment. I'll either calm down, or not.

I went to doctor groovy for help in a proper taper of Klonopin and honestly, he didn't help me at all. In fact, he told me how harmless it was, that I couldn't have a seizure, and that getting off it was going to be easy. Personally I think he was ON Benzos. It's a Crime really. Pill pushing like this should be a crime.

And yes, I know the little voices that say .. "Oh come on just have some Tramadol, (or whatever pill) and you can handle it now."

I know that voice. During the last few months I have discovered that the smallest tiny amount of codeine will amp up my system like I cannot even believe. It sends me into terrible withdrawal. My opiate receptors are now hypersensitive. I find Tylenol takes away the pain. Validation takes away the pain. Being kind. Yes healthy habits ... food, water, exercise all help pain. The pain I was having very much was produced by pills there at the end and I am incredibly angry about that.

There is no excuse. It's simply wrong that anyone is put thru this kind of hell. Personally I think they should pay. But considering the average life span of most US MD's is mid 50's ... I'm pretty sure they are taking their own medicine.

Love and healing,
Emily

974630 tn?1248196062
by iontheprize, Jul 30, 2009
Hi all.  I've been reading this several times a day but too tired to post.  Yesterday I actually was out and about til late.  No more going to bed at 5 pm :)  Today I got so angry at work.  I was just a yellin and yellin.  I'm not that kind of person.  I closed my office door so as not to have my anger be heard.  Well that was a waste!  I was so loud that despite the fact my door was closed, I was heard one hallway over.  The irony is that I got quite angry with someone else in the late morning, dealt with it, dealt with the subsequent headache and moved on.  Then, WHAT DO WE HAVE BEHIND DOOR #2?  Something bigger!  LOL.  

Nancy, Nooneknows, formerfitgirl, jekorb, captian_b, I've been thinking of you guys so often; if you only knew!  Keep your hope and know that you aren't alone.  

How is Nina of MarkandNina?

Lilly, what happened to you nearly happened to me this week.  CLICK and things are different.  I admire your honesty.  Your recovery may not be taking the same route you planned, but you are still on the road and it's all going to the same place, right?  This could have been anyone else.  Thank you for sharing.  I cried for you b/c I (and others) know where you were at and how easy it is to CLICK.  

~jessica

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by iontheprize, Jul 30, 2009
Emily, I love your feisty attitude and humor, but you are angry and that seems to be what’s appropriate here.  After all, you’ve truly gone through hell for over 400 days; fighting the fight of your life.  You’ve worked hard to fill yourself with positive, healthy things including thoughts.  You’ve learned how to handle your pain, your anxiety, your anger and sadness and everything else all on your own.  You believe in the power of the mind and have dedicated yourself to countless people, trying to help heal the minds of others.  You are passionate about your mission and know your stuff!

Don’t you dare give that doctor the power of breaking your spirit!

It really sounds like he is a Dr. Dufus.  Now, if he really wanted the answer to “How do you function?”, you could have gone on and on about all that you do , the things that make you strong, that keep you going; and how you can do all of that while supporting others.  You could say, “I’ve become a champion at dueling with the devil and walking away with my head high despite my pain.”  However, he wouldn’t have heard you because his head seems to have lodged itself in his bum.  You are going to let a guy like that take you to a place where you question yourself, where you are stressed about the “significance” of his question to the point that you have pain!  EMILY!!!  

DON'T YOU LET ANYONE TAKE YOUR JOY.  YOU'VE WORKED DAMNED HARD FOR IT.

~jessica

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by madtram, Jul 30, 2009
Oh wow, Prize, what a great post, says it all.

M

Avatar universal
by girlfriendinwisconsin, Jul 30, 2009
OH  MY  GOSH  Im ok if I dont move or breath  when I move I have to hold my breath it hurts so bad.

please tell me this is withdrawal and not my condition, my muscles all...all feel like those strong fat blue rubberbands they put around the broccoli at the grocery store  i try to move and they snap back  

Avatar universal
by girlfriendinwisconsin, Jul 30, 2009
my mom's here to help me i'll post later

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by Captain_Backfire, Jul 30, 2009
So let me make sure I'm understanding this right.... Immodium AD will actually help with the pain? Like... The feeling like I've been beaten to a bloody pulp with a baseball bat throughout my entire body kind of pain? If so, I'm buying a huge supply, as I'm forcing myself not to take any of tomorrow's T's to make sure they're there for me when I have to go to work overnight. Thank God for this room, and even more-so, for all of you. I keep breaking down into tears, fearing what hell is awaiting me in the next few days unless I can get into a doctor.

Emily, I wish I had the strength to go cold turkey. If I knew I could handle it for the 5 or so days it takes before you get past that hump to start feeling better, I'd totally go for it, but I know me. And there's no way in hell I could do that. I'm not that strong, and I'd cave only hours in.

Reading over all these stories just saddens me even more to know so many people out there are fighting this same demon. This is a pain I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, and the fact that it's happening to such awesome people is absolutely ridiculous.

And my hubby still doesn't get it. He's trying to tell me to take a buttload of muscle-relaxers and that'll do the trick. -_- I'm at a loss. I just don't know how better to explain it to him anymore.

I guess I just have to keep telling myself, what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. But honestly, that being the case, I should be the friggen hulk.

((Laughing hysterically though about the Siamese cat idea. That's hilarious. XD))

Sarah <3<3

Avatar universal
by ImDone79, Jul 31, 2009
Ii took my last dose tonight of tramadol.  I kept a few to use for weaning but am only going to use them if I can't bare the withdrawal.  Only one of them to ease the pain.  I can do this but need a little support.  I'm way to scared and ashamed to tell anyone so this will be my lifeline.  Luckly I can write where ever I go so I don't get stuck without an outlet.  Wish me luck. I'm going to give a day by day account of what I am going through.  Please help me out guys.

Avatar universal
by girlfriendinwisconsin, Jul 31, 2009
OK I'm through 36 hrs c/t from oxy.  My head feels very clear, but my body still hurts like hell, I'm gonna say that's good.  Every nerve ending in my body is screaming.  I'm having a hard time typing with spastic muscles so I'll report more when that clears. Just wanted to report my alive status.  Many of you have posted to me, some subliminally, thank you sooo much! I will respond when I'm not so jerky,  Hang in there everybody our cells are hurting but no longer in an asylum, drugged, in chains and whipped to submission.    


i shall return

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by Lillyval, Jul 31, 2009
Emily you are so right - you wrote "I've always said it is more dangerous to have excellent insurance than to have no insurance. At least, in this country".  My online refill was from my insurance approved pharmacy (Caremark i.e. CVS).  If that's not bad enough I was getting a 90 day supply for a co-pay of $7.00!  It was essentially a free ride of unlimited tramadol which my doctor thinks in non-addictive.  Plus, due to an administrative error I was getting DOUBLE refills for a year.  I figured I'd get busted at some point but they never found the mistake.

I was like an alcoholic who found a natual spring of alcohol bubbling up from the ground.

For a while I felt like I had hit the jackpot. Then tramadol turned on me and sunk its evil claws into me.  Now I'm more scared than I ever have been in my life.

Jessica, I loved your line: “I’ve become a champion at dueling with the devil and walking away with my head high despite my pain.”  I hope to be able to say that one day.  All of you here are my strengh and hope.  I don't know what I would be doing right now if I hadn't found this forum.  I don't know if I ever would have been able to take the necessary steps to get clean on my own.  I would still be believing that tram is a "safe alternative to narcotics" and that I must just be crazy for not being able to stop.

Hugs (((((Everyone)))))
Lilly





Avatar universal
by saphire1, Jul 31, 2009
Hi to all. i havent posted in along time because after day 5 of tram w/d i'vebeensuffering from intense back and neck pain. I ve ocaisionally been able to sit long enough to read some posts and that has kept me from relapse. the reason I am posting because i have IMPORTAMT information which may help those of you that are having severe muscle spasms.  The main w/d symptoms cause diarhea, excess sweating, and in some vomitting. this can cause potassium depletion. I drank plenty of water but was unknowingly low in potassium. I was back and forth to the doctor had triger point injections, was taking calcium and magnesium suppliments, taking epsom salt baths and grape seed extract as an anti inflamitory and nothing worked. the dr sent me for repeat MRI becasue i have had disc surgery in my low back and have 3 unoperable herniated discs in my neck.I just wanted to crawl in a hole and die from the depression and the pain. never did the dr order any blood work. a friend of mine who is a personal trainer and also a recovered opiate adict said your probably low on potassium. I didnt have leg cramps so potassium depletion never crossed my mind. Well,I was in sooo much pain yesterday I took 2 otc potassium in the morning and 2 later in the evening. the spasms are gone. he recomended once the pain was gone to keep hydrated and eat high posassium foods. but you must have healthy kidneys. if you have kidney problems your potassium levels can go too high and cause heart arythmias. as long as your kidney function is normal your body will excreate what it does not need and you wont need oral suppliments unless you cant eat and your still having excessive sweating, diarhea ,and vomitting. the highest levels of potassium are found in potatoes(skin on),banannas,cantelope, tomatoes,tomatoe sause, lima beans, spinache, brussel sprouts, bran cereal and yogurt.  Ihope this post can help some suffering from muscle spasms.
i want ot shout out to finally fred who speaks from the gut and to emily who speaks from the heart. your comitment to this forum is outatanding. and to grandma girl,  i am so glad your feeling better. Not a day goes by without saying a prayer for all of you here. although i havent been able to sit and post i think about all of you daily. In my lifetime I have lost many friends through drug overdoses and at the time I couldn"t understand why they did what they did. but through this ordeal I've  come to understand. there were some days I just waqnted down a bottle of pills and just check out.those were the days I would lurk for 5-10 minutes read some post and say if they could do it so can I. that is why all of you detoxing are stronger than you think and you should be proud of your self for your accomplishements.

Avatar universal
by nancy652, Jul 31, 2009
hi everyone. I'm so touched by all your posts. No Sarah the imodiumad won't take away your pain,  just some of the wd feelings, at least for some of us. Today my dose is 6 of these things. I am now half way or so done. I'm not sure what dose i was on when I called it quits with the madness.
Thank you for the potassiam info saphire. That explains why I was chugging the banana juice. I will continue to do so. Amazingly the wirst part of the day is the a.m. even the nights aren't as bad. The best time is the few hours before bed because I made it through another day. This sucks but not as much as taking them. What a rollercoaster.
Thanks Jessica Emily and Fred for being here. You're doing an incredible service.
oh bounus - no migraine this month the day before my period. Ever since I started these pills I have the worst migraine the day before my period. It is hellish. I had never in my life had one before. it was just one of those nice little side effects from T. Interestingly on those days I would get it I couldn't take T almost at all. Almost like it was poison that was causing it. Well I guess it was because on the cutdown here, no headache yesterday. A first in many years.
hugs

Avatar universal
by hadenough55, Jul 31, 2009
To ImDone79

I'm new here and on my day 3. Same as you I have no one for support. Ashamed to tell wife and family. First day was hell with nausea & diahrea. I blamed it on the flu to cover my butt.Sickness is gone now but crave still there.  Found this sight yesterday and found not being alone helps alot. Try not to take any more. I was very tempted during the pain to take one also but glad I didn't. It might prolong the physical withdrawal. Mine lasted about 36 hours but after that I felt much better about myself. Would like to post more but finding time at work is hard and can't do it from home. Also I'm a 2 finger typer. Good luck to you and all. We can beat this. Kenny


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by EmilyPost, Jul 31, 2009
Lilly that is complete obscene. I'm horrified for you! Yes, someone should have caught that mistake. And yes, very much like a boozer finding the booze well.

I'm Done ... good for you! You can do it! Just don't take more.

Thank Ion! Sweet of you to write me a pep talk! :D

MadTram ... yes, Insomnia is leaving. I do say it casually. Because see, I have very few emotional responses right now. It's the Benzo w/d. It's flatness. It'll go away eventually ... Lunesta huh? That's really awful that it's related to Benzos. I slept 9 straight hours last night and 10 the night before. Very unusual for me, because of course for 400 plus nights, sleep hasn't been normal. I do believe the new studies that say that people can indeed "catch up on sleep." Or Bank Sleep. I believe them cause they are optimistic studies.  I love a great Optimistic study.

I think eventually, the healing occurs. It's just really slow. But it happens.

Nancy is right Miss Sarah, the Immodium AD won't exactly take away the pain. It more ... how do I explain ... it for me took away the overwhelming nausea-fear-anxiety effect that coming off Tramadol presented me with. It is very helpful.

Great info on Potassium! TY Sapphire1 :D

Love to all,
Em

Avatar universal
by nancy652, Jul 31, 2009
Welcome Hadenough. I just took my last dose for today. Tomorrow will be 5 and one half. It's going slow but it's going. It's the sweating I can't stand. and the chills. Yesterday was a bit better. I think my natural hormones have contributed to the depresion today. I have read that withdrawl on Tramadol actually mimics menopausal symtoms,  an unwelcome thought for those of us women of a certain age. Thus I think my hormones are adding to the discomfort today. But I'm still here and thinking of all you other poor souls out there doing your thing trying to make it today. I have a meeting Monday - an important one - and I'm determined to go in as a confident woman who can make a goal and stick with it. There's alot on the line at the meeting and alot of money and important issues and even though I'll still be tapering I want to feel like I'm doing what I can to be my best. I know that confidence in triumphing over this drug will trump any false condidence I get when the T does its work. I really need to do this FOR MYSELF. I am doing it. It just sucks. :)

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by iontheprize, Jul 31, 2009
Nancy, I hated the sweats and the chills too.  I hated it even more when they happened at the same time.  When I did have the energy to walk my dog (for 3 minutes), I was all garbed up in heavy winter clothes.  Looks funny in July.  I didn't care.  I was more concerned a neighbor might try to talk to me, b/c I used the energy I had to change into sweats; brushing my teeth was for the next day (on the weekend of course).  For me, the sweats left first which was good for vanity reasons.  it stinks to get your makeup on, and then have it "fall off" 10 minutes later.  LOL.  Combine hormones with my w/d stuff and my dear friend said he thought my head was going to "spin off" a few weeks ago.  If nothing else, adrenaline will get you through that meeting.  Channel your pain into an intense energy.  You may get your chance to let people look INTO you and you will feel that there is nothing to hide; like you talked about earlier in the week.  I had a chance to do that the other day and thought of you.  It feels pretty great.  

Hadenough, glad you found this site.  You may find that you use it so much that you become a 3 or 4 finger typer!  Lots of support and info here.  It's been my biggest blessing over the past few weeks.  I wish I would have joined sooner into my recovery.

Tomorrow is my day 50 and I'm really excited about it.  I don't have the days of recovery in that others have, but I have never been this far.  Emily was right about it taking time and things going slowly, so I take the good when I have it and pamper myself when I am not so well.  I became a pro at cancelling plans with people.  

I was thinking that if ever a committee were to be formed about taking T off the market, i hope that the stories of all the people who have posted on Emily's journal will be read.  There's so much to learn from all of the stories here.  

My day included an unwelcome return of fatigue and leg pain.  The good news is that I didn't get a racy, excited heart at the sight of a Fedex truck; it was just another vehicle of no particular significance.  I have taken on a challenge that I've put off for 49 days that scares the hell out of me.  I've made the plan to see my mother at the end of next month.  She could operate a pharmacy.  She has health problems; serious ones.  She also has dressers stuffed with full medicine bottles. My favorite item on the to-do list is to go through her meds (OODLES OF MEDS) and "throw away" what is expired.  I usually ingest a bunch of whatever will alter my mind while I'm there b/c I can't stand being there, and also go home with bags and bags of meds (literally).  I think I started taking her expired T when I ran out of some other stuff that I took from her.  I have taken most rxs that could change mental status.  I don't know if I'm really ready to go there.  I don't think I will do well with the temptation.  If I went today, I would fail.  I suppose I need to come up with a plan and bring my computer for support, huh?

Happy Friday to all.  For any of you suffering tonight, remember it will pass.  It will get better.  Maybe tomorrow, maybe not, but it WILL get better.  

My heart is with you all.

~jessica



Avatar universal
by 43panther, Jul 31, 2009
hadenough55
  You are in a tough spot no doubt.  When you are doing this with out letting the family know what is going on is making a tough job , about as rough as it gets.  I don't know what your intake was, but if you are in the lieing stage, and not letting your family know what your true habbit consists of.  Then you are fighting a up hill battle.  I suggest you consisder letting at least your wife in on the problem.  This is only an opinion,  and hopefully others will weigh in on this,  but she will probablly not really comprehend the true scope of the problem.  She may not really even think you have a problem,  and just give you a halfhearted effort in helping.  It's not that she dosn't care,  but she'll feel that you are making to much out of something that you can "just stop" yourself.  After the cat is out of the bag,  you'll need to convince her of the trouble your in, and that you are really concerned.  That you really need her help in this , and give her your plan of attack.  As I have stated before, please tapper down instead of cold turkey.  Again, depending on your habbit, my Dr. said it can cause siezures.  Will it be easy to confess this to her? No.  But you need a team mate that you can go to in times of weakness or any other kind of help you may need.  
   Your other option is to go it alone.  While you  try and lie, trick, and  decieve the one who loves and cares for you the most.  How do I know this?  It is what I did.  I was blessed, and even after all the crap I pulled on my wife, and trouble I got in, she still stood beside me and has became my biggest fan and supporter.  And please believe me I pulled some major stunts before this all came down.
   You  are now in the THINK SMART zone.  Oh, I'm sure you feel your thinking as clear as a brain surgen right now, but lets agree on one thing, your not.  It can take time, but the drug will win. All those little white pills want to do is kill you or destroy your life as you've come to know it.  I beg you. I am pleading with you.  Please face this thing like the man you are, before you have to face it like the man you wish you would have been.  We will all be here for you everyday,  but you need the woman who you love and respect to pick you up when you are down.  Give you stregth when you get weak  Kick your butt when you need it.  And soon you will be laughing at a good joke. Enjoying a great cup of coffee. Standing on a beach, taking in a awsome sunset with the one you said you'd love, for better or worse.
   And the worse will be in the rear view mirror.  You can do it.  You know yourself you to do it.  And together, you will do it . But this is only my opinion.

                                                                                                      God bless
                                                                                                       Blaine

Avatar universal
by 43panther, Jul 31, 2009
jekorb/Joan
  Sorry to hear about all the dizzyness your haveing.  I am going to ask  about this at my next treatment meeting.  I am 22 days on sub. and it has beaten back the craves, but still tired.  I'm on 12mg and hope an pray I don't have a W/D war with the sub.  I haven't been told my projected sub. therapy will be, but hope it's not real long.  Please be carefull and follow n/a.  You are not going to go back.  We don't have to be locked into that trap anymore.
                                                                             God bless you
                                                                         Keep fighting,  Blaine

Avatar universal
by ImDone79, Jul 31, 2009
Hadenough

I kind of told my fiancé that I was weaning off and might have a little anxiety but did not tell him how many I was taking!!  The first time w/d only lasted 36 hrs and I was better so I am hoping it will be the same.  I got some vitamin b 12.  And I have 2 ambien left if I can't sleep but tuen I am on my own the anxiety is geting me along with the jitters right now.  I can't stop moving or typing or I start thinking about it.  I'm going to beat this.  On a good not I got a house supervisor job at a hospital today and passed my drug screen yesterday!!  This is why I am so determined to do this now.  I have off until Tuesday night so I am hoping I'll be ok by then.  Thanks for the support

Avatar universal
by ImDone79, Jul 31, 2009
I know I can't put my # on here but would like to talk to someone at the moments we are having trouble.

Avatar universal
by ImDone79, Jul 31, 2009
Hadenough55
go on your profile and I left you a note if you ever need it.

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by Bulldemon, Aug 01, 2009
Imdone79,
Stick with it, When not IF you reach your goal , You will feel like the biggest weight in the world has been lifted off of you . Im not sure what day im on , but its around 2 weeks off and I feel fantastic , the first week is the worst. So you get through that and your done with all your troubles , Just one week ( somtimes less depending on the situation) . You can do it :)

God bless,
Brandon

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Aug 01, 2009
Hello Tramadol Warriors!  

I want to give you reason # 3007 for hating this terrible drug.

The lighter side:

mrcrump, You had me cracking up the other day with your story about your dog, "I was holding my very small dog in one arm and the milk jug in the other, and I put my dog (Mr.Crump) in the fridge!!! lol I didn't realize it until I got to the couch and set the milk down!!  He was almost a pupcicle".

And then I read Nancy's comment about things she won't miss about this drug, "4. Finding out that they give T to animals for chronic pain. Wondering if I can score off my sister-in-law's dog in an emergency since he's on 100m's a day".

Taken together, I started wondering whether mrcrump would have even noticed the cold if he had been on T.  If the poor animal had seriously been in the FOG that I was in when I found this place?  

Then I began SERIOUSLY thinking of ALL of of the four legged animals who ARE on T.  I mean it's one thing for an M.D. to prescribe this to humans as being "safe" and non-addictive.  We will be screwed of course once on this drug, but at least we  have the ability to google "tramadol withdrawal" and arrive at a place like this where we can find the truth.  And find HOPE.

Before I learned about T, I could have seen myself giving my animals T if the vet told me it was good for their joint pain.  And sadly, this is being prescribed for our beloved pets every day.  I have run out of pills before and I KNEW about it let me tell you.  But are the withdrawal symptoms for a cat or dog any less severe for  them than they have been with me?  I think not.  How many pets are there who have been on this terrible T and their owners have arbitrarily stopped giving the drug to them for one reason or another.  

But see, my cat has paws that are too large for the keyboard.  He has difficulty finding his way through the interwebs.  And he can't tell me what his withdrawal symptoms are like if I run out of his rx and wait to refill it until payday.  Reason # 3007 to hate this drug and the people who push it on people AND ON OUR PETS..  

Join me in growing angry at these people.  Focused ANGER is a wonderful motivator when you have declared WAR on this drug and are in the heat of battle.  

From the gut (as someone here said):

Imdone79,  Congratulations on getting through early stages of withdrawal from this awful drug.  36 hours might be a tad optimistic, but for your sake, I am hoping you do have a quicker than average withdrawal time.  The first 4 days or so were the worst for me.  

Blaine, you have mentioned twice now that your doctor told you that stopping tramadol cold turkey can cause seizures.  I don't for a minute doubt that he told you this.  But the next time you talk to him, ask him to show you the literature.  I haven't seen any.  Because while people have oft repeated what your doctor told you (hearsay) , nobody has ever come here and testified that THEY had seizures from stopping this drug suddenly.  From taking high doses or from INCREASING a dose quickly - YES.  But not as a result of stopping it cold turkey.  

Someone made the remark recently that they weren't STRONG enough to stop this drug cold turkey.  

For the record, I didn't stop using this drug cold turkey  because I am strong.  To the contrary, I knew that FOR ME, I simply had to stop when and how I did because I knew full well that I was TOO WEAK to try and ween myself off this drug slowly by reducing my dose 1/2 pill per day every week.  Hell, I was so weak, that I couldn't even stay on my prescribed dose over the six years I took this lovely white pill without borrowing on tomorrow's pills today.  

None of this is to suggest that I frown on a nice slow taper.  I would have liked to have gone out that way myself.  

But from what I KNEW about my own weaknesses, I just figured that MY best way out was the shortest path to the goal post.

Finally, just a word of caution about giving out your phone numbers or email addresses.  If someone wants to do that, you do so at your own peril.  I have carried on some lovely ongoing messages with many of you, but you won't EVER find me asking you for your phone #s or email addresses and I won't be sharing mine either.  

A few months ago on another MedHelp forum I read a post from one of that forums leaders explaining why she had to drop out of leadership of that particular forum.  She related the story of having exchanged phone numbers and actually meeting personally with someone on that other forum.  Suffice it said, it didn't end well and she had to go undercover for a spell.  Anonymity is one of the qualities that keeps this place successful.  Violate it if you wish, but do so at your own peril.

Now that I have thoroughly pissed EVERYONE off here, I will bid you all ado.   From the gut.  

fred




Avatar universal
by Trees_and_Tablets, Aug 01, 2009
Hello everyone,

39 days free now and not really knowing where or who I am anymore.

For the first 4 weeks I seemed to progress in a fairly linear pattern, each day bringing an improvement in some area. Occasionally falling backward in mood but overall still moving forward.

But then a week ago I really hit the floor. Constant melancholy and sadness. And this being worsened by the fact that my whole body skin is super super sensitive. I can't stand to feel anything around my neck and my clothes feel as though they are soaked in oil. And yet my skin is dry to the touch. And I am sure I can FEEL my beard grow! Nuts or what.

My doctor tells me this is classic opiate wd symptoms and that only time will heal. As a short term measure I have started to take Citalopram (SSRI) to help with the low mood, and hopefully the obsessive part of the skin feeling.

I just want to go to sleep for 6 months and wake up well again.

Stephen

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by iontheprize, Aug 01, 2009
Trees et al :) ~ It wasn't until about day 35 or so that I joined this site.  It started with an email to Emily b/c of leg stuff, fatigue, depression....  I was so confused.  I had been a month past the classic 10-14 days of w/d.  I thought I was losing my mind and something else was wrong.  I did notice that I went through a identity crisis of sorts around that time.  Maybe it comes from our brains getting out of the foggy white haze of T....and realizing all that we didn't before.  I too have written about my skin being sore to the touch - even my scalp.  Hang in there!

About the pet talk this week.... the night that Nancy wrote about wanting to "score" some meds off her sister's dog.  The briefest of thoughts that I had last weekend came back to me.  I didn't formally register it in my mind because I was horrified....  The night of a storm here, I went to my dog's bag of supplies.  I was looking for his doggie downers (for the dog).  Instead I found 2 bottles that had quartered tabs of a pain medication.  I thought, hmmm.......  I've never had this before.  I wonder if it would do anything for me?  Disgusted in my thinking, I put the bag away and kept the dog calm because neither of us got any pills.  That was it.... I'm glad not to be the only one with these thoughts every now and again.  I had no idea that T was given to pets.  That makes me furious too.  I hope that it isn't given to pets for more than a day or two.  I'd rather go through it than my little guy.  

Hadenough - Blaine  brought up some really great things to think about.  One of the first times i quit this stuff w/d was short as you mentioned.  The next time, it was longer, and this time well, longer.  It's like our bodies remember what they're about to go through and down to a cellular level, our bodies are PISSED.  It might take longer than you plan.  I live alone, but there is no way that I could have hidden what I went through for the weeks that I did.  Just think about it.

Joan, I too was so dizzy!  Once I wound up on the floor at a friend's house.  I couldn't get up for a few minutes.  Scared him.  Scared me.  That too will pass.

The reoccuring dream of mine: version 22.  I had a dream that I found a pill under the passenger seat in the car.  Someone was about to get in the car, so I quick clenched my fist to hide it.  I was only thinking, I hope I have something to drink so that I can take it NOW.  If you can salivate in a dream, i did.  I didn't take the pill in my dream.  However, I can't get credit on my dream willpower b/c the dream quickly changed.  I was going to clean my car today, but I think I'll wait.  :)

Thinking of all of you....

jessica

910168 tn?1262466069
by Lillyval, Aug 01, 2009
jessica - your post about your Mom's medications really struck a chord with me.  I too have helped older relatives "throw away" expired medications.  This is the kind of thing that I really worry about for the future.  I've proven to myself that I can tough out the pain of physical withdrawal.  It's the long term sobriety that is the challenge.  Whether it be an online pharmacy sending a message or an elderly relative with expired pain meds, there's always an opportunity - always a fork in the road where we have to pick one way or the other.  I have, more often than not, chosen the road to self-destruction.

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by iontheprize, Aug 01, 2009
Funniest thing....my family is making me PROMISE not to come down due to my recent "illness" that lasted for weeks and upcoming stress.  I'm still processing this, but my guilt about not going may be overshadowed by my relief.  I am not ready to be near the "opportunites" that exist in my mother's home.  It's been the one thing that motivates me to get down there to her home.  I don't know if I'll ever truly be ready, but hopefully whenever I do go, I won't return home with my bags and bags of expired meds.  It's not just about T, it's about all the meds and living a different lifestyle.  A little overwhelming for me to comprehend....  For today, I can say that I have 50 days of good choices, faith and perserverence.  Today I feel happy.  Today I feel healthy.  I EARNED this joy.  

~jessica



Avatar universal
by Whitey157, Aug 01, 2009
I am a naive 1day off tramadol!  Unsure whether to reduce or go cold turkey.  Would love some insight from other people...


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by 12Stepper, Aug 01, 2009
Good afternoon, Tram. Warriors, Just checking in. Whitey, welcome to the forum and freedom from Tramadol Hell. There is no clear cut answer to your question. If you read through previous posts, you'll hear from people who have done it both ways. It seems like the bottom line is which way will bring about a greater chance of success in getting off this stuff and staying off it forever. Some of us know ourselves enough to know that we can't stick to a taper; others have developed a detailed plan and stuck to it without fail. Also, if you are taking a huge amount, that might have some bearing on it. I'm in awe of the courage of people here who have been willing to endure all kinds of symptoms to stick to their conviction.

I was starting and stopping all the time, in total ignorance of what I was going through each time. When I quit cold turkey last time, I was "only" taking about 200 mg a day since it seemed like Tramadol was affecting my sleep. My physical symptoms weren't that bad, but as I've shared many times, I've struggled with feelings of melancoly on and off for about 7 weeks. It is getting better, and it's so helpful to read other people's sharing to remember that these symptoms are a result of the withdrawal and not the new norm.

Stephen, I am grateful you shared for that reason. It sounds like we're about the same number of days free and this must be a part of the process of getting better, a signal to our own body to start finding the balance it once had. I've found that exercise really helps, and I'm really starting to enjoy this time I take just for my own well-being.

Hadenough, Welcome to this site, also. You will be alright if you just hang in there. It might be a good idea to let someone know. It's really nothing to be ashamed of, and we have to give ourselves credit for all that we are going through to stop.

Thank you all for being here!

Avatar universal
by gettinglifeback, Aug 01, 2009
Finally able to find my way back here, my computer crashed about 5=6 days ago and I have felt lost not having my morning ritual to check in on this forum.  

I am day 31 post Tram/hydrocodone.  31 days!! I am very excited. More excited that I was talking with my husband las t night and out of the blue it hit me that I was on day 30...that had been my most recent goal. I hit two weeks and then one month was my next. I promise you two weeks ago I never thought Iwould make it and still be tram free.  I have had some rough moments, still having pain in my legs along with RLS here and there.  Sleep is still hit or miss with taking Valarian Root and Melatonin to help.  I am still having intestional issues that I can't seem to figure out exactly what is causing it..ie withdraw or supplements.

On a positive, today is my sons birthday and we just had a party at a local sports facility with 12 kids and didn't even once have the "wish" that I had either t or lortab to take...huge step for me.  I did get my DLPA in the mail today so going to try that for pain/depression along with my St. Johns Wort...anxious to see how it does for me.  

I am amazed at all the new posts over last few days...good luck to all and stay strong.
Missy

Avatar universal
by ImDone79, Aug 01, 2009
I want to do this so bad. I could take up to 25 a day sometimes.  I have never had to have it every day.  Sometimes I would go 2 to 4 days without it.  But lately I have become terrified of it.  Knowing one day I will take one too many.  I can't believe I let this happen to me.  I want to tell my fiancé the extent of how bad it is but am too scared.  I am supposed to take lexapro but quit so I could take tram and not worry about the sz. risk.  I am going to start back up tomorrow because I know it will help with the depression.  I still have another refill on my tram and don't plan on filling it.  My doc gives me 180 a month!!!!! Can you believe that!  Last month I went throough it in 2 weeks!!  What am I thinking!!!  I now I feel better without it and really hate how I feel in it.  It's funny I hate smoking but when I take tram I like to smoke!  My chest has been hurting off and on since I have drastically cut down to get off.  Anyone else have this. I will be posting again soon I am sure!

Avatar universal
by mrcrump, Aug 01, 2009
WHITEY, LIKE I TELL EVERYONE, COLD TURKEY V. TAPERING HAS TO BE BASED ON HOW YOU FEEL YOU CAN HANDLE EITHER. I DID C/T BECAUSE I WANTED TO BE DONE WITH THIS NIGHTMARE ASAP! SCREW TAPERING, I WAS SO MAD AT THE DRUG I COULDN'T SEE MYSELF USING IT'S SUPPORT TO RESUME TO NORMALCY. I SAW IT LIKE THIS:
TRAMADOL: KAYDE PLEASE TAKE ME AND BECOME HORRIBLY ADDICTED.
ME: OKAY TRAM, YOU SEEM INNOCENT ENOUGH, ALL CUTE AND SMALL YOU ARE! YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY DO MUCH HARM TO ME!!!
ME: HEY YA KNOW THIS IS GREAT STUFF, ENERGY UP THE YAHOO!!!
TRAM: THAT'S RIGHT MY LITTLE PRECIOUS, HERE TAKE ANOTHER ONE OF ME.
ME: (YEARS LATER) I'M GOING TO STOP TAKING YOU TRAM. YOU MAKE ME SICK!!
TRAM: YOU STOP TAKING ME AND I WILL MAKE YOU SO MISERABLE YOU'LL BE BEGGIN TO HAVE ME BACK IN YOUR ARMS
ME: SCREW OFF, I'M QUITTING NOW!
TRAM: ARE YOU SURE?? WHY DON'T YOU JUST TAKE ME AS NEEDED? YOU SAID YOU LOVED ME!! NO! NO! DONT LEAVE ME.
ME: THREE DAYS POST TRAM, I HATE THIS CRAP!!! I'M SO SICK!!!
TRAM: HA HA HA!! YOU THINK THIS IS BAD, YOU AINT SEEN NOTHIN YET HUN!!   OH, YOU SAY YOUR FEELING DEATHLY ILL?? HERE LET ME GIVE YOU SOME DIARRHEA TO MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER!!!!!!
ME: YOU TRICKED ME..  : (
LITTLE COMMENTARY THERE. LOL! YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU THINK IS RIGHT AND WHAT YOU CAN HANDLE. KEEP US POSTED WITH YOUR STATUS. WE'VE ALL BEEN THROUGH IT, AND ARE STILL GOING THROUGH IT        -KS




Avatar universal
by mrcrump, Aug 01, 2009
Hey Fred, nice post earlier on keeping your personal info. private. I believe in this as strongly as you. This is a place where you can divulge your most intimate secrets about addiction, but the part that makes this all work so well, and we all feel so comfortable to do it, is because it's anonymous.
Props to you for putting it out there. It's like having the "sex" talk with your kid. You don't want to be the one to do it, but someone has to!!!
Also, I was so shocked to read about animals on Ultram.That is just plain sickening. Can you imagine a poor little animal withdrawing and you having no idea what they're going through? That breaks my heart. I talked to Mr.Crump about this topic and he said that you just have to say no!! He also said that if I was more like him, I would have never had this problem. I asked him what he meant by that comment, and he said: "I have no thumbs, if you didn't either, you could have never opened all those pill bottles!!!"  lol I crack myself up!!
Anywho, I haven't put him in the fridge lately, praise the sweet Lord!!!
Have a great weekend!  -KS

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by iontheprize, Aug 02, 2009
LOL on having a talk with your dog!  I do that too.  Sometimes it's just to see the curious way they turn their head to focus and understand.  So cute!

I have thought about Mr. Crump in the fridge every single day.  Great great example of being so out-of-it when coming off of that poison.  

You know those "trackers" we can use?  Well, for KS it could be "the last day you put your dog in the fridge".  What a sign of recovery!!!

~jessica

Avatar universal
by hadenough55, Aug 02, 2009
Today I'm starting day 5 CT. Physical pains are all but gone except the legs. Afternoons and evenings are the worse with cravings.
Thanks to all for the kind words and would to like to
explain my opiate history to explain my situation.
          It started 6 years ago with a root canal that went bad and the dentist gave 5mg of hydrocodone for the pain. When I called him and still complaining of pain he told me to double the dose. After that it was like euphoria and I didn't ever want to leave that place. So from there I did whatever I had to get the hydro. Forgery and lying about my pain to get it was the norm.
Then I found a supplier on the web and had plenty of the pills.
          This lasted for a year till I was taking 50-60 mg a day but it was'nt doing anything for me so I just stopped not realizing I was an addict. When w/d in kicked I didn't know what was happening and told my wife everything. She couldn't understand why I would do this and felt I betrayed her. Even with that she tried to be supportive and took me to my doctor who was very good with helping with w/d.Unfortunately he has moved away.
           I was off for 100days and for reasons I don't remember I got hooked again. After another year I was in the same boat and asked my wife for help again. She did but told me If it ever happens again she would tell my children and friends and get me in a rehab program. I would invite the rehab but I DO NOT want anybody to know. I know how I use feel about drug addicts before becoming one myself,and couldn't live with my children thinking of me like that.
           I stayed cleaned for some time and one day feeling down I tried an ultracet in the cabinet. I liked it and tried to get some on line and they sent me tramadol. I told myself I wouldn't get crazy again but after 2 years I was up to 200mg on weekdays and 400mg on weekends. They are too easy to get on the web and I have people calling me daily at work to reorder. Every time the bottle would get low I click reorder.
            3 weeks ago I injured my leg and my new doctor gave me hydro for the pain. So I took them and stopped the T. After the leg pain was gone I stopped both for a day but started feeling sick so i went back to T but no more than 200 a day. Still felt sick so I knew I was In trouble again. Decided to cut my dose one pill a day to 0. Let me tell you T w/d is much worse than hydro w/d. I hope I make it this time. It is very hard on your own. I'm glad you all are here.  I may not get to post a lot since this took me over an hour to type. But I will be reading and praying for all of us during these hard days. I get teary eyed reading your posts. Thanks to all for being here

Avatar universal
by hadenough55, Aug 02, 2009
to imdone79
Hope things are getting better. Also I don't know how to get to your note. Kenny

Avatar universal
by nancy652, Aug 02, 2009
I'm still here on my taper schedule. I am getting ready for my meeting so I will keep it short. Today was four and one half - 4 for me tomorrow. I am slowly feeling relieved. am's are still the worst but after the chills/sweat/scared period that lasts about half hour I am better after a bath and food. Tapering seeems to me ok for me. I so feel for all you in the same/similar boat. And yes though I was kidding about scoring off my sister in law's dog,  they do indeed prescribe this for pets and he is on a continuous dose of 100 mg's a day for chronic pain. Amazing right? I did a little research after I saw the concern here and it is indeed the norm. wow.
Welcome newcomers like me...I really feel for you. I want my confidence back. I have to win this battle or I'll never like myself and feel like I'm strong enough to win the other battles in my life. I just have to. I'm thinking of you all.
best
Nancy

Avatar universal
by jekorb, Aug 02, 2009
Hi, fellow Tram-despisers:  Am 8 days into Sub therapy and feeling very well; headaches gone, a little dizziness an hour or so after I take the tablet sublingually, but that's all.  Panther43, I have already gone to two N.A. meetings and am going to another tomorrow night; thank you for your post and your concern.  I didn't want to attempt driving until I was sure I could do so reliably meaning w/o having a dizzy spell.  I am not afraid of the fear-panderers who say the withdrawals from Sub are so awful.  Why be on Suboxone in that case?  Why would it be prescribed??  I thoroughly trust my doctor---his record speaks for itself and he has been recommended by a number of people, including three doctors with whom I am acquainted, so.................his instructions will be followed implicitly by ME.  I see him on Friday and hopefully, he will start the weaning process slowly.  My husband is having a heart catheterization on Tues., with a probable stent implantation.  In past times, I would have been tossing back the Tramadols like crazy in order to deal with the anxiety, but with my new strength, thanks to God, my fellow fighters, my family and N.A., I will be able to be calm and handle the situation and most importantly, I will be in control of myself!  Prayer has been a tremendous way to "see the Light" for me, and my family has been so proud.  Their praise and love has done wonders.  I have to say I have not felt so good in so many ways for a very, very long time. My prayers for all of you on this thread and all those involved in the life-and-death struggle against addictions.

Blessings,
Joan

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by Gerty411, Aug 02, 2009
Hi you all,

Today is day 6 of my tramadol wean.  The morning is the worse as I would alway look forward to my Trammies to give me the strength to get through the day.  I started using tramadol 5 years ago.  I found a stash in my associates desk and I thought I was in heaven.  Shortly thereafter I discovered the wonderful ability of the internet to assist me with my addiction.  I felt that I could do anything as long as I had my pills.  I could work forever, clean house and be happy.
But, I dont' want to live my life counting pills and wondering were my next prescription will come from.  I want to go back to how I was prior to Tramadol.

Avatar universal
by ImDone79, Aug 02, 2009
Well I decided I can't do the cold turkey way with the pills still in my house so I am doing a fast taper over the next 4 days then bam,  Imdone.  I got some b12 and I have ambien for sleep so i am on the right road I am going to get some valarian root to help with the anxiety.  Also some Gatorade to keep me hydrated ands to make sure I get my necessary vitamins so I don't get the leg tramps.  The last time I quit I had a day of anxiety and jitters but no pain rhen diarrhea.  I am also going to take my lexapro again to help with the depression.  I will have 5 days off to get through it until I have to go to work.  I am going to try to exercise since it helps with energy and. Anxiety.  Probably go to the gym and swim then sit in the sauna to help detox my body.  

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Aug 03, 2009
Gerty and Imdone:  You each have a good plan doing.  You each should think of yourselves as " lucky ones".  To come to a place in your lives where you have a vision of HOPE and of being done with these things is nothing short of a MIRACLE.

Yes Gerty, it IS no life to be tethered to the pills and our next supply.  I cannot tell you how much energy I expended making sure that I had enough trams for the annual vacation we take in August/September.  It's a sad commentary on our lives when we expend more energy and care for our supply of this drug than we do making reservation for a trip.

We are looking forward to our annual trek to Southern Oregon in four weeks.  This will be the FIRST year since 2002, that I won't wonder whether my supply will last through the duration of the trip.  Another thing you have to look forward to.  Being unchained from this drug.

Good luck to each of you and keep posting and letting us know how things are going.  

fred

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by Captain_Backfire, Aug 03, 2009
Hello everyone in the Anti T-zone,

        Alright, so I attempted cold turkey. BAD idea. -_- I don't think I've ever felt so rotten in the entire 26 years I've been alive... (And believe me, I've had my share of pain). All I kept saying to myself was, "Good God in heaven, what in the hell did I get myself into." Pretty contradicting phrase, but the truth none-the-less. I congratulate ANYONE who's made it that route and survived, as I know I caved three quarters of the way into day 2. But I only took 2 instead of my normal 4. I'll be damned if I let this drug get the better of me ANY more.

Sadly though, I may have to go cold turkey anyhow, as I called EVERY doctor in the yellowpages, and NOT ONE will help me. I sat there after like the 16th phone call just dumbfounded and at a loss for words. I have BCBS PPO For crying out loud! I pay damn good money for my insurance, and not one doctor will help me work out a plan of tapering. They all want to refer me to either the ER, or to rehab. Rehab?! I'm not a friggen junkie.... I'm a mother of a 2 year old, a wife and an employee. I cook, I clean, have 3 animals in my care, run a household and work a consistent job on the weekends, and all these places looked at me as though I was just looking for a high. It's terrible. Tramadol never once gave me a high, only made my body feel relaxed and gave me the ability to move without pain.... until the withdrawals began anyway. Then I was just miserable all over.

(Continuing from this morning, as the above post was started at 7am this morning, and I'm now at work again at 2:16am to finish it.)

Alright, so I only took 1 T tonight, and am feeling pretty lousy, but by no comparison to the way I felt the other day. I'm actually starting to see that white light at the end of the tunnel, and have only one T left that I'm going to cut in half tomorrow and work my way down with the other half on Tuesday. Once that's gone, I'm done. If it hurts, I guess then it hurts. I'll just make my husband run the household for a few days until I recover. (Not that it's a bad idea anyhow. He needs to start learning what it feels like to be in my shoes for a few days. ^_^) That said, I'm going to finish out my evening here at work and hope to God things only get better from here.

Lots-O'-Love,

       Sarah


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by KC67, Aug 03, 2009
Captain_Backfire (Sarah),

I am so sorry you were unable to get the help you need.  That must have been so frustrating and heart-breaking to try 16 different numbers in the yellow pages and not one could help you!  (((((Sarah))))))

Although I jumped off the Tramadol wagon cold turkey, I am here to tell you that you CAN do this.  

I don't know much about tapers, so I am hoping that some of the others on this post will be able to give you some good advice.  From what I have read on this forum, it seems like many people try to cut by 25mg (or 12.5mg if you can) every few days (or even a week).  If you feel "ok" (mind you, you are not going to feel great no matter what) for a few days after a cut, then you should make another 25mg (or 12.5mg) cut.  

This is actually funny....me giving advice on tapering!  Ha ha!  I am such a big proponent of cold turkey!   However, my heart went out to you when I read your email and even though I don't know much about tapering, I wanted you to know that you can receive help and encouragement here on this forum.  

In fact, as soon as I post this, I have a feeling that someone will post an even better tapering plan for you.  

Don't be discouraged and don't give up.

You can do this and it is going to be difficult - but NOT IMPOSSIBLE!  The more days you put between yourself and your last dose of Tramadol, the better you will feel.  It takes awhile, but it is worth it.

Sincerely with hope and love,
KC

Avatar universal
by onemoretry48, Aug 03, 2009
Taper-Cold Turkey....all painful, I've tried BOTH and it's different, but it still is painful.

BUT it's soooo worth it.

This weekend was my first get-away without Tramadol. We went to Ravinia and it rained like crazy just before the music started. If I had been on the Tramadol I would have been miserable but I didn't mind I just LAUGHED like crazy, all through the storm, sooo glad that my secret stash of Tramadol wasn't disolving in my pocket.

Keep up the good work all.

Jules

Avatar universal
by nancy652, Aug 03, 2009
I'm back still on schedule. Didn't win my case but I didn't come home and toss back a few T's to make it feel better either. Sarah I'm so sorry about your situation. But you are actually doing so great and if you've made those three T's last this long then you are well on your way.
Imdone and Gerty I am in your situation as I'm in day 6 or so of a taper. I will take four today. I am cutting back by 25 to 50 m's a day. Some consider that a fast taper but it works for me. I have about six or seven days to go till I'm done. I've more than half cut my dose - maybe cut it by 2/3. I'll take any victory I can get. I too have a plan with a mild benzo as needed (minimal) benadryl,  imodium , and lots of baths. I work at home so it helps.
Thanks Fred Emily and all for your continued support. It helps more than you know.
Hugs to all

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by damnitol, Aug 03, 2009
Day 4 1/2 of going CT off 6-8 trams. every 4 hours. It all started with a broken back 6 years ago... safe drug my a**.  Just wanted to say that I am happy to have found this site. I am shaking like a leaf, trying to type, sweatin' my guts out... I look like a plucked turkey. I almost wish I was at work so I could have something to focus on. I go back on Wed. Hoping by then sleep will have at least returned a few hours at a time. I've tried everything for sleep, but find that benadryl and tylenol pm have no effect, so I just keep tossing and turning... I've read over 3,000 pages of books in the last three nights alone! Just wanted to say thanks, as so many others have for having this place. Gives me hope.

Avatar universal
by jekorb, Aug 03, 2009
I am getting the impression that being on Suboxone is not the subject of discussion on this thread; that cold turkey using the Thomas recipe etc. is what is being discussed here.  I simply couldn't face c/t.  Just weak and afraid, I guess.  So, all of you have my prayers and best of wishes, but I will not be posting here anymore.  I wish you all continued good luck in your/our fight to be free of Tramadol and its co-horts and the struggle against relapse.

Blessings always,
Joan

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by Lillyval, Aug 03, 2009
I reported Friday that I had finally found a doctor (PA actually) who would help me.  Was I ever wrong.  First she didn't call in the tablets for the taper like she said she would.  Then when I spoke to her on the phone I realized she was clueless about the tapering.  My first cut (today) was from 200mg to 100mg.  I suggested that I should only go down 50 mg at a time, but she wouldn't hear it.  Also, to make the whole thing even more ridiculous, she called in more ER tablets, (which I already have tons of) and I'm supposed to cut them.  The idea of her calling in a prescription was so I could get 50 mg tablets for the taper.  The ER tablets are made to prevent cutting.  They are almost spherical and hard as a rock.  They're designed to dissove slowly over 24 hours.

I didn't admit that I had actually been up to 300mg.  So I went from 300 to 200 on Saturday and 150 on Sunday, and now 100mg today.  This is my slow taper.  I was so depressed this morning that I called an addiction doctor whose number I had.  Unfortunately his next available appointment is Aug. 28, so I didn't take it.  This has to end now.

Sarah - I'm so, so sorry you can't get any meds for your taper.  My PA also said she would cancel out my two 90 day refills on my old script but she didn't.  It's sick.  You can't get any tablets and I can't keep them from coming.

Honestly, the only people who understand what I'm going through are on this forum.  I haven't talked to a single soul, doctor or layperson, in the real world who has the slightest idea of what I'm talking about. I wish you all the best in your battles with this horrible, horrible drug.  
Lilly

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by FormerlySane, Aug 03, 2009
Fred, it's great that you're still here.  And of course Emily also.  I haven't posted in a while but am doing pretty good.  I had my last Tramadol on April 29th.  It's been just over three months.  I remember wondering back in May what life would feel like in August.  It feels MUCH better.

For everybody that is almost there, there IS, IS, IS light at the end of the tunnel.  It took me a good month to feel 25% better, then another month and I was feeling about 90%.  At month three now and still have some stomach trouble, the sneezing has been gone for a while.  Still little tiny bouts of anxiety maybe once per week for 5 minutes.  Nothing compared to that first month though.

I'll continue to read here as just last week that little voice saying, "you'll be ok with just a couple" all of a sudden popped up.  Scared the hell out of me but I did not click on any of the emails!!

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by damnitol, Aug 03, 2009
Wait? The sneezing is a W/D symptom? HAH! Good to know. I've been sneezing like never before. Yet another thing to tack onto the laundry list of things I "love" about tramadol.

911676 tn?1249562276
by FormerlySane, Aug 03, 2009
Yes damnitol, it's one of the W/D's.  I was going through mine during allergy season this past spring, so had attributed it to that until I started reading here.  In the past with my allerrgies I never sneezed that much so just thought it was odd at first.

Congrats on day 4 1/2 to you.  Keep going, one day at a time, one hour at a time.

My worst W/D's were the "foggy head".  To the point that I could barely function at the time.  And in May, I was in the middle of getting a 500k loan for a new building for one of my businesses.  Going through that fog and trying to understand bankers and construction guys was a nightmare.  I also had to work through my entire W/D.  But looking back, I think that helped.  If I had stayed home with nothing to do, it would have been worse.

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by Captain_Backfire, Aug 03, 2009
You guys are all saints. I just love you guys to pieces. My head throbs and I'm sneezing my feet off, but I know after reading what all of you have gone through and made it past, I'll get through. I have one Trammie left. I plan on cutting it in half tonight and taking the first half tomorrow morning. I haven't had one since last night at around 11:30 pm, so I count myself doing quite well, all things considered. You know, one thing though.... Is chest tightness one of the W/D symptoms? I sure hope so, because I've been having that issue ALL day. -_- Just gotta LOVE those Tramadols! Little bastards. I told my mother (who works in a pharmacy) that she should take each and every one from behind the counter and flush them down the sink they have in the back of the pharmacy and just tell people who are starting a new script that the drug is on recall. Period. Keep innocents like myself, who are completely naive to drugs and pain killers, away from this thing before it eats them alive as it has me.

I'll be shouting yippee when I'm Tramadol free! (Good God I'm lame. XD)

Love to you all,

       Sarah.

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by damnitol, Aug 03, 2009
Just deleted all tramadol websites from my bookmarks. Shredded the refill phone numbers. Emptied my inbox of all the receipts, refill reminders, etc. Feeling a little stronger in the process... and yet in the very next minute everything in me wants to spend my last hundred dollars on a refill instead of groceries. I feel like if I actually type it out that I WILL NOT GIVE IN, at least there's someone (or a whole lot of someones here) to hold me accountable to that.

Avatar universal
by ImDone79, Aug 03, 2009
Sarah,

I have been having the chest tightness too. It's in my left side.  I have 4 left but I think I am just going to go cold turkey as of today!  I feel like crap when I take them know but have continued to taper but I don't think I can put another one in my mouth.  Right now I have chest pain and I am pretty anxious.  I am scared too I feel like I am going to flip at any moment.  I have to be done with these today.  I can't believe what I have already put my body through and can't wait until I wake up and feel great!  I have felt like crap and been down even when I take them but continued.  I dint know why.  I have to work tomorrow night and the night after.  I know I will probably be sick but at least I will have something to keep my mine busy.  I know I can do this.  

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by Captain_Backfire, Aug 03, 2009
Damnitol, you're better than that! We've all had to do it. Granted, some only because they don't have much choice.. *cough*me*cough* but still. Do you have any left? To maybe do a taper??

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by FormerlySane, Aug 03, 2009
I did have some chest tightness, but then I always have a little (have asthma).  Honestly can't remember if it was worse during the W/Ds.  There were so many other painfull things going on that I may not have even noticed my asthma feeling worse!

You can do it Sarah, dam, and ImDone.  It sucks big time, is painful, and miserable.  But soon it will be over and your tram days will be behind you.  Just get that first day done, then you have that and can build off of it.  One day becomes two, then three, then four.  Somewhere in there you tell yourself "there's no f'ing way I'm going back now"!  Just keep knowing that tomorrow will be better than yesterday.

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by damnitol, Aug 03, 2009
Nope. Not a one left. I searched every purse and pocket, the car, I even checked my shoes a few nights ago when I was really sick... like maybe one had fallen in there? riiight. I laugh at it now, which I guess is a good thing, because at the time I was frantic. I refused to turn on my computer because I didn't want to be tempted to click and order more. It was just so easy. Easier than going to the dr. (especially with no insurance). But as someone said, I did waste so much time counting pills to make sure I could get through the weekend, that I didn't have to order on Thursday so it would come on Friday, because I'd never make it to Monday with only 30 pills left... And heaven forbid if I missed the Fed Ex guy. It took so long to realize that I was a slave to something so silly as a little white pill (or a handful as it may be).

BUT It's been almost 5 days since I last took one... At that point I had five left and thought to myself that I really didn't want to spread it out, I would just "enjoy" one last night rather than trying to make those five measly sh**s last. I was at the point where I just wanted them gone. And that was, as I said, almost exactly 5 days ago... I feel like I have to be getting out of the worst of some of it soon, right? Today I made it around the block twice and I managed to make some cookies. Which tasted AMAZING. One day at a time, one step at a time, one block at a time, one batch of cookies at a time.

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by damnitol, Aug 03, 2009
oh, and with all the money i'm going to save (ie: $250+ a month) I've decided at the two month mark I'm getting myself a kick a** new tattoo.

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by Captain_Backfire, Aug 03, 2009
Take yourself into a HOT shower and sit down. Let the water run on you for as long as it takes. That's what I did. I did it until all I wanted to do was hit the bed and sleep. Then take something that will make you crash and do so. And I know it's bad to go from one drug to another, but from what I've been told, and researched finding to be true, Marijuana helps dramatically with opiate withdrawals. Just a thought.

Keep going, Damnitol. You're nearly there. Just keep fighting, and don't let those 5 days be for nothing.

Love,

     Sarah

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by Captain_Backfire, Aug 03, 2009
I just took my first half of my last Trammie, btw. Good lord, I hope this ends well. >_<

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by iontheprize, Aug 03, 2009
Hi All.  Today I feel unsettled.  I'm so angry about this drug.  It was my choice to take it and I didn't take it b/c I needed it.  I spent hundreds per month on it.  I'm still on my way to discovering who I am and hoping that I can avoid backslides (i.e., taking other things).

I'm writing b/c so many of us have discussed the lack of knowledge in the medical community about the side effects of this drug.  WELL, here you go!  This is a message from the FDA:

"You are encouraged to report negative side effects of prescription drugs to the FDA. Visit the FDA MedWatch website or call 1-800-FDA-1088."

Personally, I think it would be empowering and possibly save others in the future.  If you have the energy or anger to contribute, go for it!

So many of you are aching in your hearts and bodies tonight.  Keep your goal in mind and remember that the tough stuff will pass.

~jessica

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by iontheprize, Aug 03, 2009
I was just imagining all of us who read and or post, calling the FDA.  They would be flooded with calls.  Amongst the national news stories of hard times and war would be a story about an investigation being launched into the drug Tramadol.  Wouldn't that be something?

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by damnitol, Aug 03, 2009
Just filled out my "addiction tracker"... feel a bit proud there are 5 zeroes... can't wait to put in another tomorrow!

I know I've posted like a bazillion times today, and y'all are probably sick of hearing from me, but again, thank you. And I'm gonna say a little prayer for all of you tonight, whether you are clean for a year or a day, planning on going clean or even thinking of going clean. I'd contemplated giving up these little devils for a year before I finally found the strength to do it. And some of the strength I've found came from this site. Pretty amazing group of people here. I'm pretty sure I owe my life to you. Thank you.

Avatar universal
by ImDone79, Aug 03, 2009
Damnitol

I'm the same way,  I post multiple times just to keep my mind from thinking about the symptoms I am going through.  This sight has helped me alot!  I'm done with my rx so tomorrow will be day one for me.  I am going to go on my profile and fill some of it out and figure it out.  I'm gonna do it this time, I cannot let myself fail. Like you this is my life and if I don't quit, I am going to loose it. Every time I took a pill I was terrified that that was going to be the one that sent me over yet I would still take it.  I don't in any way have a death wish but those pills are the devil and want to take you away.  

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by Gerty411, Aug 03, 2009
Hi you all ,

I'm so frigging anxious .  I've been in and out of my closet a million times.  That's were I kept my stash.   I'm so glad my husband has hidden the pills and agreed to help me with my taper. I also had a scary thought today about just staying on 4 pills /day instead of tapering.  The brain of an addict?!  Those ---------  ---------- litlle pills.    

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Aug 03, 2009
Jessica,  You had a great idea about reporting this to the FDA.  I just went there, so they have at least ONE report of adverse affects from tramadol now!   If anyone else here has had any adverse affects from this drug (do ya think?) here's the link:

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/SafetyInformation/default.htm

fred

Avatar universal
by ImDone79, Aug 04, 2009
I have chronic headaches and that is why I started the tramadol.  The sad thing is,  I still don't have an accurate diagnose and hurt like absolute he'll but would rather suffer that be on drugs.  I wad dxd with clusters buth the meds aren't helping.  I lost my insurance for a few months and am waiting for my new one to kick in.  I have decided that I have occipital nueralgia and plan on asking my doc to do a block in my neck to see if it works.  I mean they are so bad that sometimes I think if I would have had a loaded gun I would have already used it.  I know this is not the subject but it all ties in for me.  I am in souch pain right now and didn't fill my ambien and just wish I could sleep.  I am in tears but this is the only thing keeping me sane right now since the pain is so bad.  The sad thing is that the tramadol did not make them better but I continued to ask for it and pretend to my dr that it dis just to get more.  Iran I was at the point that I would rather suffer from these severe headaches rather than give up tha tramadol.  Well now I am ready to be rid of both.  I have been so miserable for so long and just wish I could have one day without a headache.  I hurt so bad right now:(

Avatar universal
by MarkNina, Aug 04, 2009
Hello all!

Another update on my wife's taper!

On Friday she went down to 150mg a day (she is dropping 50mg a week, started at 400mg).

W/D's are still coming in waves and there have been a few times when she has literally broken down in tears because she feels she can't cope. Very upsetting to see, especially for the kids! She is in pain a lot, and we are just hoping still that this is from the withdrawel and not the back operation, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. There have been a couple of amusing moments though. One being where she was meeting me to watch our little boy play football and she couldn't work out how to get there! She turned up five minutes from the end! Says her mind is like jelly at times! Reading your posts is definitely helping.

Next question to you all. This Friday she will be dropping to 100mg. At the moment she is taking 100mg in the morning and 50mg at night. What do you think will be the best way to take the 100mg?? 50mg in morning and 50mg at night? Or 100mg in the morning and that's it for the day???

Cheers to you all! good luck!!!

Mark (and Nina!)

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by damnitol, Aug 04, 2009
So Mark, not sure how your wife reacts to the meds, but I think personally for me, taking 50mg in the am and 50mg in the pm would bring me the most relief. Especially since it always helped me sleep... not sure if it is the same for her. Wish I had more profound advice, I'm a little new to this :)

ImDone, I feel you on the headache front. I had a head trauma 12 years ago that still gives me migraines, nausea, tunnel vision, etc. And I get cluster headaches. I can't tolerate most migraine medicines, but the Tram always seemed to make them duller... guess I'm realizing it was making me duller, too, huh? Hang in there, talk to your Dr. and hopefully they will be willing to come up with a plan.

Fell in the tub this morning. Hurting all over. Trying not to think about how taking a few little pills would just make it all stop. Not that I have any to take. Definitely a good thing. Deleted more emails. Wonder how long it will take for the desire to click "Submit" to subside. No nightsweats last night. Woke still under a sheet, though I only slept a few hours. This will get better, right?

Hugs to all.
D

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by Lillyval, Aug 04, 2009
Hi everyone, I read these posts every morning and its amazing that every one says at least one thing that's been on my mind, too.
jessica - I submitted a report to the FDA las month and I posted the link in part 12, so I don't know if anyone one else filed one.

Getty411 - the last time I quit I had my husband hold my pills and I did that closet searching thing, too and it was hell.  Now my pills are in plain sight while I taper and when I'm done any remaining will have to go down the toilet.  For me, I just can't have any pills in an unknown location - it just preys on my mind.

I'm holding at 100 mg and I have to admit I had the same thought as Getty - maybe I'll just stay at this level.  But that's the addiction talking.  I have to get totally free of this stuff if I hope to have any future sanity.

After all the b**ching I did yesterday it turns out that using the 100mg ER tablets is working for my taper.  You take one in the morning and it slowly releases all day - so I don't have that initial feeling when it "hits" but I really don't have bad withdrawals (yet) either.  Mark - your wife may want to try this when she goes down to 100mg.  If not I would do 50 and 50.
The truth for me is all the months (and years) I have been on the Ultram ER I never used it the way I was supposed to.  I always crushed, cut or bit the pill to release the drug all at once.  Now I'm paying the piper for my addiction.

Sarah, Imdone, dammitol - I know you're all in a lot of pain right now.  I really feel for you.  I know you can do it and I'll pray for you all.

As for myself I'm praying for God to remove my obsession and compulsion to use.  I know I can get off of this crap but I'm going to need divine help to stay clean in the long run.
Courage everyone,
Lilly

Avatar universal
by nancy652, Aug 04, 2009
Hi everyone. For some reason my post didn't show last night. Fog head. I am still on schedule. Today I take 3 and half. I was so tempted last night to "borrow" from today's dose cause I didn't win my case at least outright. But I didn't. That was my first real victory.  Sarah,  imdone,  damitol,  lilly,  ,mark and nina - oh you guys. this totally sucks,  right? We're all paying the piper,  lilly. And I too think I can hold the dose at 100 or 200 ,mgs. Cause I'm pretty good at tapering. Still morning sweats - but you know what? I'm getting my dreams back - literally and figuratively. I used to be an almost prophetic dreamer. My dreams would give me answers to questions I posed. My dreams have been so colorful lately - like my imagination couldn't wait to take flight on its own without being tempered by Tramadol. And let's be honest here - who's beginning to have a sex drive again? Huh? Come on Tramadol warriors - you know it's you!
Love
Nancy

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by Gerty411, Aug 04, 2009
Today has sucked.  I have felt this gut-wrenching anxiety. I had some spare time this AM and walked for almost 2 miles.  I think it helped.  I could have walked for hours.  Dou you all think I may be tapering too fast?  I took 10-15/day for about 2 years and cut back to 200mg/day 8days ago.

On the lighter side it sure feels good to have that am BM  unassisted!

Getting rx's for valium is not an option.

The traminator will not pervail!

Take care y'all

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by damnitol, Aug 04, 2009
Nancy, you are SO right about the sex drive thing! (blushes). Good for you for not giving in last night. I am proud of you! I don't know how you taperers (<---- strikes me as a very funny word at the moment) can do it. I give you credit. I, too, have returned to dreaming (in the short stints of sleep I do get)... long time since I realized I've stopped dreaming.

I just wrote a very professionally nasty letter to my former landlords who have yet to return our security deposit. I did a bit of internet research, figured out just how much I could legally demand, and am happy to say that as we have heard nothing from them in 30 days, we will be getting back more than we thought we were entitled to! Yay money! I have a feeling I'm going to be saying YAY money a lot more now that I'm not buying little white pocketbook drainers.
Congrats Nancy, I'm saying prayers left and right for all of you,
Keep up the good work!
D

Avatar universal
by onemoretry48, Aug 04, 2009
Ok, I keep popping back in here to repeat one thing to the new folks...PLEASE..

You've got to HATE this drug, after you're first 2 or 3 times you took it IT DID NOT WORK. I tried it for recreational purposes and then I tried it much later on for ACTUAL pain, and it does not work. It is just plain addicting, that's it and a money maker for the drug companies, NOTHING ELSE...Greed.

PAIN and Suffering for us, for animals (I shed a few tears when I read that)...innocent animals that trust that humans will do the best for them? PLEASE, it makes me want to sceam.

So take my advice and immediately throw away any Tramadol you have, deal with the pain and you will have your life back.

I PROMISE...

Jules



Avatar universal
by MarkNina, Aug 04, 2009
Thanks for the tips folks, it really is great help here. In fact, I try and catch up on your posts when I get a chance and have just noticed that I have missed some where you have asked how Nina is! (Jessica) so sorry, not being rude! Nina really appreciates it. I am like the middle man feeding back the advice and encouragement!!!

Headaches (severe) have come on today, but again, it has put Nina's mind a bit more at ease after seeing that this is another quite common w/d from reading here! So thanks.

She has also started to say stuff that has also been on here, that if it is too bad when she needs to drop another 50mg she might stay on her current dosage. That is definitely the addiction fighting her! What terrible pills these are!!!

Thanks to you all. I'll update later in the week. Good Luck!

Mark (and Nina!)


Avatar universal
by nancy652, Aug 04, 2009
That is indeed the problem. There is no such thing as "the current dose". I have known NO ONE  whether these pills were prescribed or not who was able to maintain a level dose. They are indeed useless as well against acute pain though I have heard that some people have used them for chronic pain with some relief. But the wd's are just too terrible for even that use. Ironically,  I think that they would best be used for depression and general "happiness" if they weren't the devil itself  because of side effects and addicition/tolerance issues. They are useless against pain - in my opinion.
Besides the sweating,  my energy level is much improved. On T I was content to sleep as much as I could and "cocoon" myself as much as possible. I am actually participating in life like a normal person since cutting down. Before I couldn't even go to the store without psyching myself up with a pep talk and a dose. This week I have worked,  done my thing and felt as close to normal as I have in a very long time despite the wd symptoms which are admittedly unpleasant. One more week and those will be over. Then I'm in for the long haul with the psychological dependence. That's when I need to take Emily's approach and see this drug as poison.
love
N

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by FormerlySane, Aug 04, 2009
Mark, has she tried any of the supplements for the W/Ds, stuff like Valarian Root helped me a lot with the anxiety and sleep.  I was also doing 800 mgs of Advil at least four times per day for the first couple weeks.  That helped with the "pain" that covers your entire body.  B12 definitely helps with the energy and the foggy head.  Caffeine helped on some days, other days it made the anxiety worse.  I also craved candy a lot the first few weeks, Jolly Ranchers, rice crispy bars, etc...  I think the serotonin release from simple sugars made a difference.  Tell Nina I said good luck.

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by damnitol, Aug 04, 2009
So I thought I was going crazy just now... just have to share :)

I stepped in the elevator after doing three loads of laundry (a HUGE success given my uber low energy). I was by myself, heading up to my 6th floor apartment, and the elevator told me it could lower my credit card debt. I stood there frozen. I was alone. Who the *&%^$ just told me they could lower my credit card debt? I was sure I had gone completely nutters through my w/d. I'm thinking "Oh God, I'm not doing as well as I thought I was, clearly... and I was so proud that I had done the laundry and everything."

Then I realized it WAS the ELEVATOR telling me it could lower my credit card debt... The voice was coming from the speaker that you are supposed to use for emergencies. I guess credit card debt is now an emergency..?

When I realized the elevator was in all actuality, "talking" to me, I laughed SO HARD! I laughed like I haven't laughed in days. I almost cried both because it was so funny and because I was so relieved I hadn't gone off the deep end... yet. :)

Tomorrow is day 7. Today was better than yesterday. My body hurts, and I'm kind of appreciating that. I'm having a hard time sleeping, but like Nancy, I used to sleep for 11 hours at a time without thought. This is better. I can laugh now. I hope you can, too.

Avatar universal
by BM7, Aug 04, 2009
Today I joined the fight.Day 1-I was not scared until I read these post.But I guess it is good to know what I'm in for,I will beat this.All the posts do scare me but it's nice to know I am not alone.I am 42 and have taking 400mg for about 4 yrs.My story sounds like the rest.I am happy about starting this part of my life.( easy to say on day 1) Thank all of you for the tips and info and I look forward to reading this site.thanks BM7

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by Gerty411, Aug 04, 2009
Today ended alot better than it started.  I only took 100mg instead of my alloted 200mg!  Is it normal to have such mood fluctuations with w/d? Maybe I'm now becoming manic.

I'm going to take the valerian root and b12 recommended by formally sane.

I honestly think the exercise I did today really helped the anxiety.

This site is awsome and I really apreciate everyone's input


Hope I make it through tomorrow

The traminater will not prevail!!!



Avatar universal
by mrcrump, Aug 04, 2009
Damnitol, you are an inspiration to me. When I was at my lowest point, the last thing I could think or say was that I appreciated the hurt. That's just sheerly amazing to me. Good job doing your laundry. You are doing so much better then I was it's really awesome.
Sleep well, continue your great recovery.  Love. KS

Avatar universal
by ty1987, Aug 05, 2009
Hey all, its been a while since I posted last..good to see that some of you are doing better. I wish I could say the same for myself. I've been so alone lately and just really need to talk to someone. I've been taking tramadol for about 7 months now, about 8 pills a day. I was taking around 14 a day, but have now tapered down to 8. About two years ago I was prescribed tramadol by my doc when I messed up my back playing basketball..it didnt do much for the pain, but it did make me feel really happy. On top of that, it helped me with my speech problems. It gave me so much confidence. Then, about 7 months ago, I was really depressed and it just didnt seem to go away. Gosh that tramadol sure made me feel happy...so I decided to self-medicate and start up on the tramadol again. Huge mistake. It actually did wonders for me at first. I felt happy again. I loved it. I didnt know I was addicted to it until about 60 days into it..I could have stopped then. I should have stopped then. WHY DIDNT I STOP???

This stuff has made me so depressed I cannot stand it. It doesn't help at all that I just found out my girlfriend cheated on me..but this depressed?? I never get this depressed. Not over anything. Never in my life have I had suicidal thoughts until now. I honestly began to think about how I would kill myself. Do I find a gun? Do I drive my car off the biggest bridge? God I need help. My girlfriend was the only person in the world who knew about my tramadol use. She was my support. She was my motivation. She was the one I wanted to quit for. And now I don't even have her anymore. I can't do this alone..I just cant do it. I dont know what to do. Do I seek professional help? Do I try to suck it up and do this by myself?

I have lost interest in everything that used to give me joy. I stopped hanging out with all my friends. I stopped going out to the bars, which I used to do quite often. The only person I ever wanted to be around is my girlfriend. I have lost all feelings for everything. The only feelings I have are self hatred. I want to die.



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by iontheprize, Aug 05, 2009
Ty1987.... I just happened to be checking this post while getting ready for work.  

There are people who have had the suicidal thoughts that have posted; including myself.  However, there is a big difference between thinking about an escape knowing that you won't act on those thoughts VS having a plan, being excited by those thoughts, isolating, really seeing no way out.  ONLY YOU KNOW, and if you don't know, then you need some immediate help, too.  You can get to an MD immediately if you can't stand the depression and get on an anti-depressant for a while.  If it's so bad that you can't wait for an anti-depressant to kick in (including OTC St. John's Wort), then you may need to take it a step further.  The best combo is anti-depressant and therapy.  You have more than one thing going on.  I also think that it would serve you well to reach out to your friends and family....you don't have to talk about T.   If you have an EAP program at work, utilize that too.  Utilize everything you can.  

From what you've written, I am incredibly worried about you and I think that you need help and more than this site can give.  There is LIFE that awaits all of us and sometimes it takes help getting to the other side.

I'm praying that you have the strength and energy to get the help that you need.  Please let us know how you are doing when you can.

~jessica



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by iontheprize, Aug 05, 2009
Another quick thing....if you get to a physician for an anti-depressant, Lexapro works more quickly than others.  I mean by the next day you can notice a reprieve.  I don't know your medical history and there are lots of anti-ds out there, but that's just an example and also a bit of hope about feeling better really really soon.  It will get better and you will find joy in life.  DON'T YOU GIVE UP!



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by EmilyPost, Aug 05, 2009
Ion is right Ty ...

Please do call someone and get into an office for help. It's so hard when you are having Suicidal Ideation (thoughts but not plans) ...

It sounds like you are making plans. Which is not good (you know that) and of course that is of major concern. Yes Tramadol will do this to people. And so will a broken heart and a breakup.

Make yourself take contrary action. Call an office for help, order the book "How I stayed alive while my brain was trying to kill me." Even call a suicide hotline seetheart. *been there*

((((((((((Ty))))))))))))))))

Avatar universal
by ImDone79, Aug 05, 2009
Ty

You should go get some help!!!  I was at your point once.  I am still a hermit and don't do anything, go out, or enjoy much, but I don't have any thoughts of not being here.  I lost my job because of this crap and had to go into counceling for a while and it did wonders for me.  I continued to take the tram but it gave me something to look forward to and helped me plan my recovery.  I no longer go but damn I am glad I did.  You can do you it,  everyone CAN do it.  Please Please Please look in to getting help.  

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by Lillyval, Aug 05, 2009
Hi Ty, I remember you from when you posted a while back.  Please do what the others have suggested and talk to someone in the "real world".  This online forum is great but not enough.  I experienced depression the last time I came off of tram.  This time I'm tapering up on an anti-depressant (Celexa - essentially the same as Lexapro) while I'm tapering down the tram.  You don't have to go that route but it is an option and you don't have to stay on it if it's not right for you.  There's no addiction or withdrawals in my experience from anti-depressants and I've been on 4 or 5 different ones over the years.
((((Hugs))))
Lilly

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by FormerlySane, Aug 05, 2009
Ty, listen to the people above me.  Seek help if you're really thinking about it.  During my W/D's I had those thoughts as well, but they didn't get out of hand.  It's the depression.  Just think, when you come through this, you'll be a whole new person.  There is an end and you can survive it.

A couple other things I forgot to mention:  Celestial Seas Sleepy Time tea, the melatonin, and the Valarian root all helped for sleep too.  I was taking the VR three times/day.   I also had a script for Lunesta, which I've had for a long time for insomnia (which got infinitely worse coming off the tram).  Advil and a very hot shower or bath before bed will help with the restless legs for anybody getting those.  And exercise, even if it's only a walk around your block, getting yourself moving helps.  I tried 5-htp and St. John's Wart but didn't think they helped me, I know others it does help though.  Sugar was just the one thing I didn't remember reading about in all of Emily's threads (but I may have missed it in a brain fog a couple months ago).  I even drove to the local convenience store a few times at 3:00 am to get candy.  It was a massive craving that I knew I had to have, and it helped for a few hours.  Never craved sweets before in my life, only that first month.

This is all stuff that's been said in these threads quite a few times, just hadn't seen it mentioned recently.



Avatar universal
by ImDone79, Aug 05, 2009
So, today is day 2 for me and I am doing ok so far.  I have had the night sweats and been hot then cold and so on.  I am actually in pretty good spirits today.  I was supposed to work last night but called in.  I am supposed to work tonight too so I am hoping all goes ok.  I then have several days off.  I actually plan on getting dressed here in a min and going out to run some errands.  I know I still have bad days to come but I am pleased that today has not been horrible for me.  I have started with the GI problems today but those I can suffer through.  I am going to go to walgreens and get some immodium and some valarian root.  oh,  I also got brave and told my fiance about everything and he is good and supportive.  Last night I didn't even think about it and he tells me he put an extra fan in the bedroom.  I asked him why and he said, becuase you are going to need itf!!  And boy was he right.  I slept but woke up every hour having to change positions because I was soaked to the bed.  Good luck everyone.  Keep it up.

Avatar universal
by hadenough55, Aug 05, 2009
Ty, Don,t give up .Listen to these above suggestions. You may not think it now but you are young and things will get better. Seek professional help NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Today is day 8 of c/t and things are getting brighter even though I'm still craving it badly in the afternoons and evening.
Can't wait for the day this is just a bad memory.

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by 12Stepper, Aug 05, 2009
Ty, One way to be around people who will understand is to go to NA or Narcotics Anonymous. You can google the local organization to find a meeting schedule. The program is not just for bums and degenerates, as the stereotype would have it. There are a lot of people who are getting their lives back together after having a bad experience such as this. Try a few meetings to find one that fits your needs. Prescription drug use is a big problem for many people, and many experience depression as a result of withdrawal--it is a temporary symptom that will pass, but it is very serious. Please try a meeting or counseling or even an antidepressant. It is really to hard to go through this without extra help. Please keep us posted as to how you are doing.

Avatar universal
by ImDone79, Aug 05, 2009
Ok,  so the devil's wrath is here!!!  I am anxious and my chest is tight and it took me 5 minutes to make it up my stairs,  my heart is pounding and I feel like absolute @#^!!!!!!!!!!  haha. But I am still in good spirits, I am still with a smile on my face and ready for the fight!!  I have been just wondering around on other sites seeing what people have to say about tramadol.  "Its not a narcotic", "no withdrawal symptoms",  "won't get addicted".  So funny.  I am so glad I found this site as my outlet and I am sure some of you will get very sick of reading my posts!  This is my only outlet though.  I did go to walgreens and get some symptom relievers!!  I get very nauseated but then make myself eat more and it helps,  I am not going to be addicted anymore but I will be overweight again!!  JK.  I lost 100lbs on my own and am terrified of gaining in back.  It is what helps me realize that I do have will power and I can do this.  I am typing like 400 words per minute right now just to take my mind off of the extreme chest discomfort I have.  I am only 30 so I know it is just the w/d and nothing more.  I am fairly healthy at that.  So I think my dogs have sympathy pain for me.  My little schnauzer sat in the bath tub alone for 20 minutes this moring and was up and down with me all night last night with the night sweats.  And my little pug has just been stuck to my side, but that is normal for her.  Hope everyone had an ok day so far.  I am looking forward to hear how yall are doing.  

Hadenough,  You rock and are my inspiration right now since you are at the day I can't wait to be, last time I quit on day 8 I felt so good and then I went to my parents house, got mad about something and took some of my moms vicodin which started my hell over.  I keep looking back to the days before I had this problem and remembering how much energy I had and how much I enjoyed being around others and went out and had fun.  Now, just a sad little lonely hermit crab, stuck in my shell,  Well I am ready to break free and get a bigger one!! haha

Bye for now!!!!








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by EmilyPost, Aug 05, 2009
(((I'm Done))))

I remember sitting at the top of my stairs in early withdrawal thinking that I needed to get to the kitchen to get water, and I couldn't make it down the stairs.

Today I have been out watering plants, in the sun. I remember not being able to go outside. Not being able to make it to the store. Being terrified of sounds and the phone and the people knocking on the door.

That's all gone now.

It'll be gone for all of you also one day.

So important to remember in the midst of it all, that this too shall pass!




Avatar universal
by susan122, Aug 31, 2010
I thought this blog-site was a practical joke!  

I have taken Tramadol 1-2 x day for >10 yrs
I have never had a need or desire to take more than 2 a day.  
Some days 0
Some days only 1

I have severe spinal stenosis but have opted not to have surgery because of a regime that I have put together on my own:
I am unfortunately allergic to all opiods and narcotics except Ultram
I take  a bare minimum dose of Neurontin 2-3 x day of 300 mg.  
I take TriSalisylate (a buffered Rx strength aspirin that has no GI side-effects)
I use a pilates reformer to do core exercises 3 days a week (this is the real key to managing my pain)
And I work full time as an orthopedic outpatient physical therapist.
I  put in 50-60 hours a week and I'm 52 and my job is physically demanding

I had always heard that people with addictive personalites might possibly be at risk taking Ultram.
But, I never even considered someone could even have any problem with it.  
I can't even tell I have taken it except that it stops pain with no sensation of feeling "high"
The only thing it does is ELIMINATE any break thru pain from standing-working on my feet all day.  
I thank God everyday for my pain management medication.  
I couldn't work without them.  
Recently a Rx ran out.... I had to go 10 days til my doctor was back in town.........No side effects except more radiating leg pain at night.  



Avatar universal
by susan122, Aug 31, 2010
FYI-  
I saw that someone mentioned trying taking Melatonin for sleep.
Real melatonin is secreted by the human brain's pineal gland

Obviously there is not medical facility extracting human melatonin for commercial use...
If so, the volunteers themselves wouldn't be able to sleep

SOME melatonin is made synthetically-  but it is expensive to produce
MOST Melatonin is made from bovine (cow) sources....  
HOW do you suppose it is extracted????
From the filthy floor of cattle slaughter houses.  
Only now is the increasing risk for Mad Cow Disease from such sources being realized !
REMEMBER, this fatal and horrifying disease sometime takes up to a decade or more to develop.

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