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Tramadol & Ultram Recovery Room Part 20

Nov 05, 2009 - 226 comments
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ultram

,

Recovery

,

Healing

,

withdrawal



Hi Friends,

Good work! Welcome new warriors! We are glad you are here.

Make yourself comfy.

Love and Healing,
Emily

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Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 05, 2009
Notsosunny..It is just a feelin..it will pass.Go and have a hot bath in epsom salts and some herbal tea and relax.It is just a panic attack because you are tired and worn out.and had too manythings hit you at once.But please,please do not give in because  this feeling will pass and once you can prove to yourself that you can resist temptation you will feel strong and not have these doubts that throw you into a panic.We are here to help and guide you and love you dearly.

Avatar universal
by hanginin, Nov 05, 2009
Tman 14 is totally different than 7. You are over the worst and you will get better every day. You are probably still having some lingering Tram effects but they will go away in a day or two. Notsosunny. Hang in there. You are just having a bad time right now and it will pass but don't give in. We are in this together and we are going to make it.  

1059641 tn?1277525976
by forget_me_not, Nov 05, 2009
Notsosunny...try thinking of it this way.  Just give yourself until morning.  By morning you will either 1) have given in to the misery and have suffered a setback, or 2) feel better and have come through a crisis with a victory under your belt.  Let me say this to you (and I am trying to be brief because I remember not wanting to deal with a lot of rambling at this point in my journey): when you think you cannot take any more, that is when things start to turn around.  That's when the monster rages off and leaves you alone for a while for the first time.  

After that, it rages off and leaves you alone more and more.  And then, when it realizes you are not going to crack... it leaves permanently.  And you will be FREE.

You have two choices tonight: give in and have to start over, or stay the course and give tomorrow a chance to be better.

We are here to help.  The truest words I can say to you right now are right here... It Gets Better.  Please stay with us.

~fmn

Avatar universal
by newway, Nov 05, 2009
Notso - once we get through the worst of the physical stuff and we are not preoccupied with just getting through the day and feeling lousy - the mental and emotional stuff iare just sitting there waiting to wage their part in the war.  
We are all different - but the tram gave us something at one point - energy, good feeling, distraction from life, numbing of feelings - whatever.  
Once we get clean we need to deal with the emotional bagage tram has dumped in our lives.  Be patient - you are going to have rough times - of course we are going to crave the feeling we once loved - you have to remind yourself of where you ended up - where it will always take you if you let it back into your life.
Like Fred has said - it is not a linear thing - lots of ups and downs.  Getting it out of our system is just part of the battle.
You can do this - be gentle with yourself, expect it to be tough.  Try and find a few things you enjoy  - distraction is a great tool.
Just take it day by day - minute by minute - you can do this.
Vent away on here - let it all out - we will be here for you.
Have a good evening all - one more day down.


Avatar universal
by notsosunny, Nov 05, 2009
I found the perfect song for me and you guys...It is by K's choice and called I'M NOT AN ADDICT...

Breath it in and breath it out
and pass it on it's almost out
We're so creative and so much more
We're high above but on the floor
It's not a habit it's cool
I feel alive
If you don't have it your on
the other side
The deeper you stick it in your vein
The deeper the thoughts there's no more pain
I'm in heaven I'm a god
I'm everywhere I feel so hot
It's not a habit, it's cool
I feel alive
If you don't have it your on
the other side
I'm not an addict (maybe that's a lie)
It's over now, I'm cold, alone
I'm just a person on my own
Nothing means a thing to me
Oh, nothing means a thing to me
Free me, leave me
Watch me as I'm going down
Free me, see me
Look at me I'm falling
And I'm falling.........
It is not a habit, it is cool
I feel alive I feel.......
It is not a habit, it is cool
I feel alive
I'm not an addict, I'm not an addict, I'm not an addict.

I AM GETTING LOST IN MUSIC AND I AM NOT GONNA BREAK TONIGHT!!!!!

LOVE YOU GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Avatar universal
by newway, Nov 05, 2009
I also have to say I enjoy ABBA - even went to see the stage play Momma Mia - however I will never admit it to anyone but you my invisible friends.  I have to agree - it's hard not to feel happy when Abba is on!


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by madtram, Nov 06, 2009
I was 17 when Janis Ian's song "17" was released & her music always brings back those memories, (mostly good but also my fare share of the angst she sings about ).

You are all doing so well & those who already coping in early withdrawal have so much more to look forward to.  Don't forget to celebrate even the smallest of recovery milestones, even though they may not feel like major progress to you, they represent huge changes & renewal at the cellular level of your body.  

Chrissie you asked about valerian & the gaba receptors.  Valerian has been the subject of a large number of studies, although the precise bio-chemical pathways have not been determined.  It may have some GABA activating effects but may also act on the 5ht2 receptors, (serotonin).  The important thing to know is that the studies have consistently concluded that it is a safe herb & it does not have the addictive potential or excessive sedation of the benzos.

  The main weakness for valerian is that it has not worked for a majority of people, (this may be partly because different studies have used different strengths & formulations & the methodologies have not been consistent complicating review).

Anyone having good results with valerian can continue to use it with confidence as there is more reasonable quality evidence of the safety profile than for most herbs & indeed some pharmaceuticals.

It's always a trade-off with any psychoactive substance, whether herbal or pharmaceutical.  Antihistamines are also generally safe but have their own downside in that they block acetylcholine which plays an important role in mental & physical alertness.  This is why the side effects of antihistamines can include memory loss; confusion; head aches & increased heart rate, among others.  However, prolonged periods of insomnia can also cause these symptoms so until a safer sleep med is created, valerian & antihistamines are both reasonable choices.

I used to desperately wish that one of them worked for me, I took way way over the recommended dose of valerian, (after checking the safety profile), on several occasions & felt absolutely no effects at all.  The antihistamines didn't work for sleep either but I would feel especially disgusting the next day  so it's great that many of you are getting some relief from them.

Wising you all a low stress Friday.

Avatar universal
by twanghead, Nov 06, 2009
Forget me Not said...: when you think you cannot take any more, that is when things start to turn around.  That's when the monster rages off and leaves you alone for a while for the first time.  

AMEN!

Not so Sunny:  You got the right medicine to help you through. Music!  God and music are my two comforts at anytime.
Even when I was on trams all the time I got the"I am gonna crack in half " feeling here and there. My world is coming to an end! LOL! Why does it always come down to me??? LOL! Anyway.......It always passes. Always.

Just gotta look "it" in the face and say...."GET OFF MY BACK!" ....you can add more if ya want.

I also use the great words of my movie guru Scarlett O'Hara ...." Tomorrow's......"

Then there's Peter Fich's character in "Network".........(for those who remember)

We all have choices on how we feel. Me....I used to take my misery feelings to the extreme...until my Gestalt therapist my moons ago gave me the advice about choices. Took me a while to figure it out but man what a valuable lesson.

There is light through this sea of Tramadol residue ....ya just gotta look forward to the light and brush off all the "stuff" that is attacking you.

Before I sign off......one thing we all need to remember is life is a series of ups and downs.....continually.

Me thinks maybe I forgot that in Tramaland.

love you all

Just smile ....it's all gonna be fine


Avatar universal
by chrissie145, Nov 06, 2009
Thank you so much Madtram for coming back to me about Valerian. I freaked a bit last night in case I was continuing to damage myself. I dont sleep well - mostly in 2 hour bursts. But I do cobble together about 5 - 6 hours a night this way. Valerian calms the agitation to a degree but I had begun to wonder if it actually made the depression worse, although if it has serotonin properties then I imagine it should be  helping?!

Such a lot of good energy on the forum at the moment and so many people getting free from this evil drug. I spoke to a doctor this morning who actually appreciated the damage tramadol does. (The first one with any understanding that I have come across). He tells me that because of the antidepressant properties in it - it damages a whole range of brain receptors - not just the opiate ones the other narcotics stick to. I have  heard it said that this drug is harder to get off than heroin. So a BIG pat on the back to all warriors!!!!

(The good news is that the damaged or dead receptors do repair or grow again though!)

Chrissie

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 06, 2009
Good morning everyone.Yesterday one of our doctors got very angry..not at me but at the drug company and rep that left the info about tramadol.He says they feed us this pile of **** about it being a mild narcotic and we all think we are doing the right thing by ordering it for our patients and get them in worse shape than before.I had been helping one of his patients thru withdrawal from tramadol.It has been 2 months and she still feels shakey.She just takes non rx meds for her back pain caused from prednisone she needed for her Addison's disease.Her bones are thin from prednisone.She knits and crochets to keep her mind off things.When I quit smoking I crocheted many blankets and scarves for everyone.I hope notsosunny got thru the night ok.She had a bit of a meltdown but I think she held on.It is so hard because we always relied on the drug to help us but now we have no drug and also extra symptoms,but it can be done.

Avatar universal
by chrissie145, Nov 06, 2009
So doctors are at last coming through Pharma. This is what we need.

My son is on Day 8 of C/T. He had been on tamadol for a serious spinal injury for a year. He was becoming more sick by the day. In desperation his Polish wife took him to her country for help. Three doctors told him that the drugs were killing him. One doctor said that my son looked like a dead man sitting in his surgery. The next day he jumped off around 800mg of the evil pills. (Some days he took over a 1000mg). He had hallucinations as well as the usual  w/d - but he actually feels BETTER already than when he was on them. He can think again.  I know he has a way to go. But thank God he is OFF!

Chrissie

Avatar universal
by Hillbilly47, Nov 06, 2009
Hang in there, Notsosunny.  You're doing it every minute!

JK about the abba comment Booba - it was just such an easy target! ;-)

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by booba77, Nov 06, 2009
good morning all.  not so sunny, i have gotten lost in music as well and it is great......went from nirvana this am and am now on 10,000 maniacs unplugged.  really missed my tunes.  me and my 4 year old danced to stevie wonder last night~never would have happened in my tramafog.  i have missed so much of her growing up that i will never get back.  i will never let that happen again.  it is friday.  wooooohoooo.  jenny~hope you have a good day off u lucky duck.  even getting a sense of humor again.....day 8 for me and i feel grateful and lucky.  

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by forget_me_not, Nov 06, 2009
Wow...Chrissie, Thank You for sharing your son's experience with us here.  So many of us forget, as we tend to idealize the drug during withdrawal (life was so much better with Pill X; if only I could just take One More Pill; etc.), just how sick we really were.  I recall it clearly, though.  I was like your son.  I wasn't going to be around long if I didn't stop.

And even in the hellish periods of pain and depression, I had sort of "tied a string around my finger" if you will, plastered words on my brain to remind me of what I knew I might forget: that I was liberated from that bondage.

Please give your son our regards, and let him know that we are pulling for him in this fight.

Pharma, that is SUCH good news.  I still remember how my doctor assured me that tramadol was perfectly safe, not addicting, benign.  Safe.  But I feel that we are helping to create the change that needs to happen.  In my state of Kentucky, tram is now a scheduled controlled substance.

Strength and peace to all my fellow warriors.  Fight on...Always fight on.

~fmn

Avatar universal
by notsosunny, Nov 06, 2009
I made it through the night. I actually got myself so worked up that I became physically ill. I didn't get up to take my daughter to school until 8:30 AM and she is supposed to be there at 7:40. So my day has started off rottten but I am about to go get some breakfast and chill out. My husband is off work today so I will have some help. I think he is frustrated with me and I really can't blame him. Last night I just fell apart and he was totally not very understanding when he got home. Today is a new day and I am going to sit back and relax. Thanks for the encouraging words everyone. I think this battle wouldn't be so bad for me if everything in my life wasn't so chaotic right now. I am gonna make it though and once again..I DIDN'T CAVE IN.

~NSS~

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 06, 2009
Notsosunny- I hope you made it through.  If there is anyway you can keep the drugs out of your life for awhile, it will help.  Temptation is never good.   I just tell people not to offer me things like that.  Maybe a doctor could help you.  I'm thinking maybe you're quitting benzos too?  The psych guy gave me some clonidine, which lowers your BP during withdrawal and I slept great with that and my klonopin.  He thought the klonopin had gotten me through this withdrawal, so I'm glad I was on it for once.  He is going to help me off that too though.

In my session with him, we realized I had not been unmedicated either by drugs, alcohol or anti-depressants since I was 18.  Interesting.  Many years of self-medication.

Take care everyone!

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 06, 2009
Notso- I hear you about husbands.  Mine is usually very understanding, but then if he has a bad day, which of course happens, then he's not so sympathetic.  It wears on them.  Jenny

334144 tn?1423248271
by booba77, Nov 06, 2009
notsosunny~you can do this girl.  we love you and are here for you.  i am waiting for my emotional meltdown.  it will likely happen at the concert tonight.  hell i cry singing the little mernaid songs.   We are proud of u for not giving in.  

Avatar universal
by notsosunny, Nov 06, 2009
THANKS GUYS...I hope and pray you guys don't have the emotional breakdown I had last night. IT WAS BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Really bad. I am still having rapid heartbeat and lots of major anxiety this morning. I am going to make myself go for a walk. The weather is beautiful and I need to get out of this house. No matter what I know the important thing is I didn't buckle and I didn't cave in. I wanted to, but I didn't and for that I am proud.




Avatar universal
by Hillbilly47, Nov 06, 2009
Notso:  I am very grateful to hear you made it through the night.  Don't beat yourself up over it - we all have valleys in this process.  Just keep looking upward for the hilltops.

Jenny:  Spouses in general can have a hard time with this.  After watching my wife's reactions to her sister's addiction issues ("its all in your head - get over it"), I decided to keep this battle to myself.  It has been hard, but its working out.  She's sooo great on every other front, that I just can't fault her for her attitude in this one area.  Like Sun Tzu says, the water must flow around the big rock and not over it.

Booba:  music has been one of my mainstays throughout this process as well.  I play mandolin in a "newgrass" band (we do traditional bluegrass, but also sprinkle in bluegrass versions of some cover songs like Snoop Dog's Gin&Juice etc) and I've re-discovered a great deal of enjoyment in music that I had lost over the past 10 years.  During sleepless nights, I digitized my entire cd collection and loaded onto a 32G iPhone.  Over the many walks and runs I took to get my mind off drugs, I found all kinds of cool stuff.  This weekend, my band is going out to play a big bluegrass festival and, thanks to my discovery while walking, we're also doing a bluegrass cover of Arrested Development's "Tennessee" that we worked up.

For those of you in your early days or just thinking of jumping, let me say this:  getting off those things was the best thing I've done in a long, long time.  It will be tough at first, but it gets better.  Even after 52 days, I have moments where I'm not real keen on the whole process, but I've found these moments pass more quickly each time and come less often.  

Keep your heads up and your powder dry, Warriors!  The strength to do this lies within each of you.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 06, 2009
Look on the bright side Notsosunny...At least you slept till 8.30am.Must have been a pretty good sleep and you are still here with us.When your daughter gets home you will be in great shape and the weekend is coming.....It's all good....

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 06, 2009
LOL Hillbilly- Sorry, I didn't mean it was just men that didn't get it.  People that don't have addictions and have never dealt with them, don't get it in general.  My husband thought he'd never known an addict before me.  I kindly let him know that I thought he might have a couple of friends with alcohol issues...he just didn't think about it that way.

Love bluegrass! That's awesome you play the mandolin and even better that its done with some snoop dog and Dr Dre :).  We had some local bluegrass musicians at our wedding since we got married in the NC mountains.  We're heading up to the same cabins for Thanksgiving...I can't wait! And, I'll be tram free I hope :).  

Day 3!  I am also thrilled to be free.

Avatar universal
by Hillbilly47, Nov 06, 2009
No worries, Jenny - I took no offense.  

Next time we play down your way, I'll holler at you.  We did a festival in Asheville last year and did nothing but Beastie Boys stuff for our second set.  We don't travel often or far, though, cause we all have day jobs.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 06, 2009
Hillbilly,I love that statement that water must flow around a big rock not over it.That is an excellent attitude in life.I have learned over the years to go with the flow and compromise a lot.Life is difficult enough without us making more problems for ourselves.Nice to hear you play music because I believe that playing,singing,hearing music is one of the greatest therapies for tension and affordable for everyone.I include dancing in that.It certainly has helped a few of our posters past bumpy spots.It is always nice to hear from you...your posts remind me of Fred who is also a grat cheerleader.

Avatar universal
by Hillbilly47, Nov 06, 2009
Thanks Pharma.  Your input here has been invaluable with your knowledge of the rx world.

I'm flattered by the comparison to Fred, but he is truly more gifted than I with words.  Fred and I also have something else in common - mediocre career choices ;-))

334144 tn?1423248271
by booba77, Nov 06, 2009
i love that song Tennessee.  my dad plays the mandolin.  i work witha couple guys who play bluegrass.  i think they live in the Shenandoah valley.  When VA gets overrun with people, which wont be long,  I am moving to WV.  i am a hillbilly as well.  no place is better than my 6 acres of heaven full of deer, which i dont kill by the way.  i could not  live in the city.  to me the only benefit is distance to decent chinese food. different strokes for different folks i reckon.  my hubby does not know about my addiction either~only you guys.  still feeling great.  forgot to take my B12 so im draggin a bit.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 06, 2009
I would like to add that all the otc drugs I have suggested also have a potential for abuse and should be used only as described on the package.They should be used sensibly and to help get over humps.The pain meds can be used chronically but again only as directed on the package.We all want to preserve our livers and kidneys.These otc muscle relaxants and sleep aids and pain relievers are useful but must be used sensibly.I always say that my day goes in 4 hour increments because I am allowed the pain pills only every 4 hours and not sooner.Most of us have pain and that is how we got here and have to learn to control the pain without the devil pills and often have to use something a little safer.

Avatar universal
by notsosunny, Nov 06, 2009
I am feeling stable at the moment. Went and got some nasty yet yummy fast food for breakfast..something I never do! Oh well...I will just have to walk extra today to burn it off. :) Guys, I got in my car and there was a pink envelope with my name on it. I opened it and it was a gift certificate for a 4 hour session at the Day Spa...Massage, sauna, paraffin wax, facial, manicure and pedicure!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess he does understand and I feel bad for thinking he didn't. I am calling to make my appointment as we speak. If they can get me in today even better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hillbilly, my parents have a couple rental houses in Asheville so if you guys come back there soon let us know. That is cool that you play music. I am sure that is very therapeutic. I am not musically gifted whatsoever. I have been known to belt out some Tori Amos or Alanis Morrisette on Karaoke. LOL...IT IS NOT PRETTY, BUT I DO IT ANYWAY. :)

I really am feeling better. My struggle usually begins in the evening. Tonight, though, my girls & I are going to the movies! Maybe even a double feature if we are all up to it. We have a drive in theater here so we may even go there. I am not staying cooped up in the house!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am hanging in there guys!!!!!!!! Thank you ALL for all the support!


Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 06, 2009
Forgot my b12 too.

Hillbilly- That'd be great! We love Asheville...great town. Would definitely be interesting to hear the Beastie Boys in BG.

Jenny

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by forget_me_not, Nov 06, 2009
Hillbilly, just over the hills in Kentucky is a girl who also LOVES Bluegrass music and is a guitar-playing fool.  Couldn't agree more with all of you who are letting music companion you along the Journey to Healing.  I own the K's Choice CD and have always loved the song you posted, Notsosunny.  Amazing how music can really reach us on a level that we don't even know we possess until it aches.

Pharma, I have a question for you.  I have pernicious anemia and have taken B12 shots for about a year.  Don't have health insurance anymore (I'm one of the millions in America, unfortunately) and would like to find an OTC source of B12 that I will actually absorb.  Can you recommend any?

I am so proud of every single one of you.  You inspire me daily.  Tomorrow I will be 9 weeks clean, and life is good and I am stoked.  Can't wait to share all the better tomorrows with all of you...

peace,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 06, 2009
In Canada you do not need a prescription to buy b12 injection.I have many customers that give it to themselves.It can be given under the skin or intramuscular.I suggest insulin syringes and just give it to yourself like an insulin shot.Most people give themselves 1ml every month or 0.5ml every 2 weeks or whatever.You can not overdo it with b12 and it is so important to the myelin sheath over the nerves and in the brain.It is cheap to buy here.If you can't do that the under the tongue methylcobalamin is absorbed better and under the tongue it bypasses the stomach and is absorbed almost instantly into the bloodstream.I take the one that look like listerine wafers and they dissolve instantly and work great.They even will absorb into the bloodstream if dissolved on the tongue.

334144 tn?1423248271
by booba77, Nov 06, 2009
Maybe i will defect to Canada when the US is too full of people.  I went there on a band trip once.  no litter on the streets and everyone was so nice. cant be bad if degrassi is filmed there.  last night i took one 3 mg melatonin and one 400mg valerian to sleep.  i am so tired at nights i am going totally drug free tonight.  thanks for your support everyone.  cannot help giggling thinking bout gin and juice played newgrass style.  that is priceless.  i would love to hear it.  i actually missed myself.  forgot how weird i truly was. .......now, when will the PAWS hit?  why do i feel so good at day 8?  only thing i took today were my aminos and tylenol for this fever.

1059641 tn?1277525976
by forget_me_not, Nov 06, 2009
Pharma, thank you for the reply!  I will see if I can get the B12 for injection from my doctor.  I've never given myself a shot, but I am sure I can learn to.

Booba, you may be one of the lucky ones who recover quickly and without major PAWS issues.  I consider myself very fortunate that I only had about two weeks of severe withdrawal, followed by two weeks or so of less-severe WD, but still very tough in places.  By the end of that time I started to have more good days than hard ones, which is when I consider the worst to be over.  Now, at 62 days, I feel really good most of the time.  Occasionally I will have a few hours of leg pain, heart palpitations, and brief bouts of insomnia.  But the depression is greatly diminished, and I have no cravings.  (Some of us, I understand, get by easier on this point -- I never had a "craving" for tramadol as I had with hydrocodone, due possibly to the fact that I may have been more dependent on the antidepressant components of this drug than the opioid aspects. Just a theory.)

Hang in there, be strong, and celebrate your new ownership of your present AND your future.  

blessings,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 06, 2009
A lot of your present symptoms are also symptoms of low b12 levels..eg  palpitations,leg pains and back pains.Make sure you keep those levels up because a deficiency can cause holes in the brain much like MS .I am super big on B12 and preach about it every day at work.You would be surprised how many people are low in B12 and doctors do not seem to check for it.I tell everyone...take it anyway.You can not overdo it with B12.

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by 12Stepper, Nov 06, 2009
Just good to see so many people posting. I've continued to do some research on our topics. Someone here asked about tennitus (ringing in the ears) and I saw that that was a side effect of tram. There are so many harmful side effects of pain killers and antidepressants. I can't believe how fond I was of them--stocking up for a trip, or even taking them to go to the grocery store. By the end of this month it will be six months tram-free. It's amazing how much time I had to put into feeling better, but in the end, it has been incredibly worthwhile.

About month 3-4 I really thought my life was over (PAWS depression), but then I seemed to get past a certain point, like I was coming out of a tunnel. I exercised by walking or biking about 45 min a day, usually in the sun. It helped with so many aspects of w/d, such as building up the strength and muscle mass I'd lost during the tram days. Also, it helped with the insomnia. I thought that time in my life would never end--but it did!

I took antihistamines for sleep aides and tapered off those. Eventually I only needed a valarium based tea. Now I just use a passion flower tablet once in a while.

You are not alone Warriors, All the best to you today, Love and courage, Linn

Avatar universal
by hanginin, Nov 06, 2009
Hello everyone. Notsosunny. Good job last night and this morning. I had a rough morning as well and I went for a short walk that turned into a 5 mile hike. I would never have done that on the Trams. I would have walked 5 minutes then went home and did nothing. I know this is tough for all of us but I keep feeling better every day and I never want to see another Tramadol as long as I live. Tough for me that in my profession I cant actually do that but I have come to hate to even see those little white demons. Day 15 for several of us today and we are going to make it.
Have a great day.
Hanginin

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 06, 2009
Good post 12 stepper...you are so right..all those things can happen,but are short lived and overcome quite easily once the mind is made up.The antihistamines and muscle relaxants do help during the acute times but should be tapered when not needed and after healing the need will be so much less.These may be otc's but are still drugs and should be used with caution.High or normal doses of tylenol and advil also cause ringing in the ears.GOOD FOR YOU..you have changed your lifestyle and expectations and are making a success of your healing.I am proud.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 06, 2009
I know what you mean hanginin...I get a lump in my throat and chest whenever a patient gets their rx for percocets or any narcotics and I know their lives would be better without it even if they are convinced that they truly need it because of their condition.I do not preach to them but in my heart I wish they could realize this and try to stop or cut back.There are some genuine cases of true need,but most are people who are addicted to the narcotic .I DO emphasize the dangers of tramadol to new patients and so far we do not have a big abuse of it that I see.A lot of drug plans will not pay for it and it has too many interactions with other meds so doctors and patients will not use it as much.I have no desire for any of,those drugs any more but feel for the people who do.Congrats on day 15.

Avatar universal
by Hillbilly47, Nov 06, 2009
To all my Warrior friends out there:  I'm very proud of all of us - regardless of how many days each has racked up, we're all of the same spirit.  Keep on keepin' on and I'll see you guys back here in a few days.  I'm going to go to where the grass is blue.  I’ll be campin' and pickin' - soaking up some great company and cool tunes.  Since I'll be in a place without internet service, it will be a few days before I'm back, so I'm going to count on the rest of you guys to keep doing what you've been doing for each other.  Luckily, none of the folks I hang with in this circle are pill people, so I shouldn't be tempted.  If I am, though, I'll just keep thinking of my ticker on this page.  That should keep me in line (I hope).

Much Peace and All Blessings to each and every one of you. We're hangin in together!

Avatar universal
by hanginin, Nov 06, 2009
Pharma9. I read an interesting article a couple of days ago about tramadol abuse in a small country. I can't remember the country but the article said that tramadol addiction was becoming more of a problem due to it being OTC in that country. It seems like this tramadol addiction epidemic is worldwide and just getting worse.  I hope that it becomes a controlled drug soon or better yet taken off the market.  I can't find any use for tramadol that can't be accomplished with something else. I have broken over 20 bones playing sports and in a car wreck and I realize that pain is just something I am going to have to deal with but the thing is now that I don't take tram I don't feel like I hurt very much at all. Keep fighting everyone. I am so proud of everyone and once again I need to thank everyone on this board. I have done 15 days 3 times before and relapsed but I didn't have this group of warriors to keep me going.

Hanginin

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by Keyser_Soze, Nov 06, 2009
Greetings to all-I have lurked in the background for weeks and found inspiration from so many of you. From the bottom of my heart-Thank You!

My story, like many of yours, is one that began years ago with chronic back pain. The result of a severe auto accident. Vicoden was prescribed and for about 15 months was used as needed with virtually no psychological dependence or abuse. At some point my physician decided that I would be better served to take Tramadol and switched me over from Vicoden. I was pleased as the pain relief seemed comparable and the Tramadol seemed to not affect my mental sharpness as much. Everything was fine for a couple of years. I had a streak of bad luck with additional physical problems (broken toes, root canals, etc)  that caused me to begin self-medicating with more Tramadol. I actually refused Oxy from my dentist knowing that I had an endless supply of Trams at home. Two Trams a day turned into four and before I knew it I was completely dependant. I consider myself very fortunate that I did not go deeper into the belly of the beast than I did. 5-6 pills in a day was my target but even at that small level I could feel the tremendous affect that it was having on my life, especially my moods. Life was becoming grey, lines were becoming fragmented, and natural highs were virtually non-existant. My daily focus was to get somewhere in the middle between depression and anxiety-and to stay there as long as I could. Pills were strategically placed throughout my house so that I could access them without alarming my wife to the horrible path that I had taken. Insomnia, depression, RLS and more became almost daily battles. Efforts to taper off were met with huge bouts of depression and insomnia. I was embarassed and ashamed but could not stop and did not know where to go for help. What if it is just me and not the drug? What if it is the drug and they make me go cold turkey? How will I deal with the pain?

In mid-October while searching in desperation for answers I came across this forum. The first post that I read was by Hillbilly47 and it was like he was talking directly to me. Then as I read on I saw more and more that I was not alone, that there was more people like me struggling to get out of the horrible cycle. Noone here had met me but everyone here knew me. I was the same sad song that all of you were or had been. Looking for a way to jump and hoping that my parachute will open...


more later





Avatar universal
by Hillbilly47, Nov 06, 2009
Sitting here waiting for the others to be ready and thought I'd jump back on here.

Welcome Keyser.  Very glad I could help.  I think you've discovered what I (slowly) discovered over the course of months lurking here - that none of us has a truly original story.  Instead, we're all rowing the same leaky boat in up **** creek.  I also hid pills from spouse the same way you did.  I'd even bet you (like me) have told lies to cover the habit.  In nearly 20 years of marriage, Tramadol is the only thing that ever caused me to be dishonest with her and the guilt I carry from this is enormous.  

The only way I can see through to making this right is to live true from this day forward and be the guy she deserves.  Anyway, I digress.  I'm sure it feels liberating to know that you're not alone.  It sure did for me.  It helped me realize that others had gotten to a place I want to be (pill free).  All I had to do was follow their path, which is what I started doing 52 days ago.  I'm not a future teller, but I absolutely do know that my future looks better now than it did 53 days ago.  If you prepare for the jump, the parachute WILL open - this I know.  

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 06, 2009
Keyser- What you've written so far is very eloquent and well-put.  I've always prided myself on my honesty and still hate the idea of stealing or lying, but I did it.  That's just not me.  I was on a similar dose to you and I have 3 days free now.  Honestly, stopping was easier than tapering.  Today is harder.  Not physically, although I have a slight headache, but mentally.

I've been looking back on all of my substance abuse over the years and realized that I've been searching for some high or happiness for at least 10 years.  I haven't figured out why exactly.  There are drugs that I've done that I would never even touch now, but it's hard for me to understand how I ever used them in the first place.  Furthermore, how am I supposed to naturally get anywhere near that feeling?  I know people say exercise, yoga, etc.  I do the yoga thing and have an all day retreat tomorrow, but that's nothing like tramadol or certainly any of the others I've done.  Am I just supposed to accept that I'll never feel that way?  Will my brain forget some day?  Or will I find it in something healthy?

As you can see, I'm too much in my own head today.  LOL

Hillbilly- Have a great time camping...must be cold at night.  Keyser- Hang in there...you're in the right place.

Jenny

Avatar universal
by twanghead, Nov 06, 2009
Kyser- You said,  "     Life was becoming grey, lines were becoming fragmented, and natural highs were virtually non-existant. My daily focus was to get somewhere in the middle between depression and anxiety-and to stay there as long as I could. Pills were strategically placed throughout my house so that I could access them without alarming my wife to the horrible path that I had taken. Insomnia, depression, RLS and more became almost daily battles"

You musta taken that out of my ingrained brain journal. That was my life. The more pills I took ...it seemed the anxiety got worse and the thought of being addicted plagued me . I don't miss that feeling. I don't miss the guilt.

I don't feel guilty now for my pill popping vacation. Just proud and joyous that I am free. Praise de Lord!

What a crazy existence.

What I will tell you is that all the above will completely go away after you are off Tramadol. You will have freedom freedom freedom. Mainly freedom from lies.

The high of life will come back. You will have withdrawal issues....but the freedom of bondage and anxeity will definitely outweigh the withdrawals. Even when I was feeling at my worst in withdrawal I was still unbelievably happy that I was a free man. Freedom.

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by booba77, Nov 06, 2009
hillbilly~you musst be a great husband.  keyser~welcome.  glad you are no longer a lurker.  welcome to our home.  8 days tram free and feeling good.  out to dinner and janis ian concert. love you guys.  ttyl.....will post tonight after the concert.  Jenny~have a good evening.  hope you had a good day off.

Avatar universal
by DeeTram, Nov 06, 2009
Keyser & Hillbilly - I've been posting on here from the perspective of the spouse of an addict. Asking questions and telling my feelings.  My husband didn't hide his pills. He didn't need to. They were prescribed by a Dr.!  Dr. prescribed  = safe. Right?....  WRONG!    At the height of my husband's Trama journey I found myself disconnecting from him. Being replaced by "the other woman"'.  Falling out of love.  In my heart I KNEW he was lying to me about how many pills he was taking. He got extras from a buddy.  I started counting the pills. That's when I realized the seriousness of his addiction. 3 years later & after many fights he is finally being HONEST with me and we are getting along MUCH better!  I am now helping him through this. I look at him differently.  I know he's struggling with turning his back on "his tram best friend".  But now I am his best friend. Like I was 5 years ago. Our life is slowly coming back to our "old normal". yeah!  The good side effects of getting off this nasty stuff is his sense of humor is back and his sex life is coming back.... (tmi ?)   :)  
So everyone, please be honest with your family & spouses. There may be some repercussions at first but in the long run you'll feel better for being honest & your family will respect you.
Love & peace.

Avatar universal
by twanghead, Nov 06, 2009
I second that....

Be honest with your spouse. Ithought mine would drag me through the depths of.....but....instead she has been incredibly supportive and helpful.

Avatar universal
by notsosunny, Nov 06, 2009
DeeTram, we all tend to let out a little TMI at times and it is all good. LOL  That is what we're here for, to let it ALL out. I know it is hard on the spouse of an addict. I have caused alot of issues over the years regarding my pill use.ALOT!!!! My husband must really love me to put up with me and my ****. LOL...On the upside..I know what you mean about the sex drive coming back. I think I have seen a few people post and comment on their sex drive returning when they got off trams. I know mine has. Well, in spurts anyway, but I FEEL like it more now than while I was on the trams, though. That is what I am battling the most. FEELING REAL FEELINGS AGAIN! I just haven't learned yet how to cope with life and stress because I have literally been numb for over a decade. Physically I feel pretty decent..emotionally I am a wreck on and off. One minute I am fine and then BOOM..I crash. I always come here when I am feeling tempted and post and I know sometimes I sound like a complete basket case on here, but this forum is helping me so much. So everyone forgive me if I have anymore breakdowns like I did last night. It was bad!!!!!!!!!! Anyway...I am doing ok this evening. Actually feeling pretty good and calm. I have done nothing today except relax and watch movies so I have kinda chilled out. Going to spend time with Hubby before he is off to work! Will check in later! Everyone have an awesome evening and keep fighting.

Avatar universal
by newway, Nov 06, 2009
I look forward to reading all of the posts when my work day is done.  Today it is amazing how many seem to be written for me.

Jenny I have also spent most of my life on one substance or another - I had been clean from it all for about 8 months when I was prescribed Tram - the non narcotic pain reliever for the addict!  I knew immediately I liked it - I had a good few years on it and then as Keyser has described - and we have all felt - the depression, numbness etc. set in.  I continued for another 3 years increasing to about 1000mg a day.
It is great that new people continue to post here - personally I need to hear the struggles, the darkness to remind me of what I am fighting to get free of.  As my taper continues - the cravings are getting crazy - I really want more.  Fortunately, my partner holds the tram so I am okay with that - but it is hard not to turn back to the other substances.  I need to constantly remind myself why I am doing this.  
I can't wait for the day where I am looking forward to something, anything.  Now I hold onto the words of those of you who have tram free time and how your lives are changing.
I am feeling better now than I have in years - yet I still feel the pull back to the tramfog?!  Addiction really is an amazing thing - I have gone against my morals and values, treated loved ones poorly, stolen, lied, manipulated and lost all self respect.  And this is the life that I feel pulling me back?!  
No wonder it is difficult for our loved ones to understand - I don't understand it!  It has taken me a long time to get past the feeling weak and lack of will power ****.  If it were just that none of us would be here - we are not weak, stupid people - this takes more strength than most things we will encounter in our lives.
Sorry - I am rambling today, anxiety overload - I am going to head out for a walk, clear my head.

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 06, 2009
Newway-  I don't think I realized until recently how addicted  I was.  I've been taking them for three years! I think maybe I had a few months without them or ADs or alcohol or cigarettes.  It was just after I got clean.  I remember that being a crazy time.  I had so much rage and anger, which usually is fear I think.  Also, loads of insecurity at the time.  I feel much more secure now, but I doubt these issues have really been addressed, so I wonder if they'll come up again.

My psychiatrist is going to help me get off the benzo at night and my AD as well and we're going to see what's under there! :)  It's interesting, quite often, when a psych or someone asks if I feel a certain way, happy, sad, angry...I don't really know how to answer.  I remember being a happy kid and up until around college and I always say that I'm happy and outgoing and sometimes I am, but not like I was when I drank.  So, am I really outgoing?  I don't think I really know.  Lots of insecurities.  Anyway, sorry to ramble.  I think it's interesting (and crazy sometimes) what you can turn up when you get off all the substances.  It's hard though.  

I need to get involved in something- AA, NA, something.  Like this group, which is great! But maybe I need something more intensive.  I don't want to be an active addict again.

Well, slow night. LOL...Apparently, everyone else is out on Fridays!

Avatar universal
by notsosunny, Nov 06, 2009
Jenny..Newway, I am right there with you guys and so are many in our "group"..The only times I have been pill free(sober) since 1998 has been when I ran out. I wasn't an unhappy person before pills. In fact, before I was ever prescribed pain meds for my back I was energetic, happy, outgoing and I was JUST ME! I had so many friends and I always felt like doing things and going places and I gradually isolated myself from my true friends and started to gravitate toward other pill heads. Thank goodness my true friends are literally true friends and are still here for me. I certainly don't know what I have done to be so blessed with a wonderful family and awesome friends but I am thankful!!!!
I was thinking earlier how sick and tired I was of getting the trams and trying to figure out how many a day I could take when I first got my delivery. When I would have to cut back when I was running low. Thinking thoughts like "I can take 12-15 a day for a week and then I have to cut back to 6-8.." I was so sick of counting pills and marking on the calendar reminders about the trams and when I could order more. It is just crazy how really consuming this addiction has been. Seeing as how I ordered in my name and then my husband's name (that is so horrible, I know, and I am ashamed of myself for doing that to him) I would have already ordered twice since I have joined the group. How sad is that? $118.95 a pop, but I justified it b/c it kept me from buying from people and it kept me from being on "narcotics". LOL..I was only taking tramadol...You know the wonderful non-addictive non-narcotic pill!! *rolling eyes*

Jenny, I was literally trippin out last night with anxiety. I was completely and utterly overwhelmed. I was right on the verge of falling off the wagon. I just literally didn't even know what to do with myself. I came on here and posted. Sounded like a complete nutcase, which at the time that is really how I felt. I got some amazing advice and encouragement and I didn't cave in. I paced and I listened to music and I cried. I sat on my couch and literally cried myself to sleep. When I woke up this morning I felt so triumphant that I didn't mess up my half a month tram free. I have had ups and downs today but all in all I think I am on a natural high because of my victory last night. I made it through! I am considering joining a group myself. I think it would be a positive thing for me to do. I am thinking about it. I feel like the more people I tell the less likely I am to relapse. You know, the whole PRIDE thing. I agree with you...I DON'T WANT TO BE AN ACTIVE ADDICT AGAIN.:)

Saw Paranormal Activity tonight. Mixed about it. It wasn't as good as I thought it was going to be but at times it did keep me on the edge of my seat. It didn't even get scary until well into the movie. Oh well..We got out of the house and that made us all feel so much better. I put on make up and did my hair. Another small victory. LOL!!!

Avatar universal
by sososo, Nov 06, 2009
hey
i would like to talk about when this drug (tramadol) has changed your life and for the first time you feel like a normal human,
why would you want to quit?   A diabetic does not quit their insulin when it helps them live a normal life and keeping abreast of sugar values, etc.

is this a site where u guys use this drug just to get high so you need to taper off?  Did it work for you?  I have life long medical condition that will never go away, yet this drug has saved me (and my family).

I would really appreciate some comments how u feel about this.  That maybe this drug does help people to cope.

thanks

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 06, 2009
I just got in and finished reading all the posts.So much good energy in here and everyone seems to be holding their own.I think to succeed we have to just decide that we are not interested in that elusive and fleeting high that drugs give us and concentrate on the real high we will get from living a true life.We will get lows as well,but the lows will be short and easily overcome.Golly we only live once on this earth and I sure want my life to be as good as I can possibly make it.

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 06, 2009
Notsosunny- Paranormal Activity freaked me out LOL.  I have night terrors and used to sleep walk, so I felt like that girl could be me...minus the other stuff ha ha.

Soso- The drug didn't change my life for the better.  I did need it for awhile, although I could have taken other things.  I was lead to believe it's not addictive, but it is.  I can only speak for myself.  If someone needs it for a chronic issue than that's their thing.  I'm just not sure why they would need to be on a substance abuse forum.  For instance, some people use fentanyl for chronic pain and need things like that.  They might not have an abuse problem.  That's why narcotics exist...some people need them.  

Most of us have just found that we were better off without.  

Jenny

Avatar universal
by sososo, Nov 06, 2009
JG525
thanks
as I said i came on this site by accident and reading all the comments i began to wonder if i am addicted?  but it helps me so much that i can't see me stopping and have that pain all over again.
A lot dugs need to tapered down not just tramadol and not just narcotics. As i said a diabetic would no way stop taking insulin.  i have been to pain clinics who have put me on major drugs (morphine, norco, etc) which i hated.  Made me to crazy.  When i found this drug i felt i found help for my problem.

i do not want to dump on anyone, i am just saying this drug can help chronic pain.  thanks for listening

soso

Avatar universal
by notsosunny, Nov 06, 2009
SoSo- Initially the tramadol did make me feel better. I was prescribed tramadol by a doctor who told me that it was a non-narcotic non-addictive pain pill. I was very naive in thinking that it wasn't addictive, or naive in thinking I had control over my situation. Either way, I was ill informed about the drug. I was never told about the SSRI qualities and I was never told about withdrawals from abrutly stopping the drug. In just a short period of time I built up a tolerance to it and it took more for me to get any relief whatsoever...Not High...Relief!!!!!!! I would then run out before I was supposed to and feel horrible. It just became a cycle that I got sick and tired of. I got out of control with it and for that I do blame myself. I was too blind or numb to see what was happening  to me. I actually know alot of people on pain medication that manage themselves very well on them. Unfortunately, I am not one of those people. I completely understand where you are coming from and I see what you are saying. If the tramadol is working well for you and you never begin to abuse it then you are a success story and that is great. I am a firm believer in people doing whatever works for them as long as they can control it and not end up like so many of us on here. I agree with Jenny...Most of us just found we are better off without them. If I can manage my pain without pills that is now the route I have chosen to take. If I ever get to a point where I can just no longer tolerate it then I will go from there. Right now I am tolerating the pain fairly well...My emotions are another story, though.

Jenny, there were moments I was freaked out at Paranormal Activity, but I anticipated it being scarier. It was just nice getting out and doing something. Now I am going to rent a movie ONDEMAND and relax a while. My house is quiet and I am not tripping out tonight so I am going to enjoy the moment. :)

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by madtram, Nov 06, 2009
SoSo, I don't think that anyone here is saying that no-one should take tramadol.  There are two major objections, relating  to the inadequacy of the information relied on by doctors prescribing the drug.

The first is the tolerance effects which tramadol has in common with other opioids & opiates.  Tramadol is promoted as safe for long term pain control but many users who may have no psychological addiction, find that they need to take more pills to avoid going into withdrawal & face horrible withdrawal side effects as you can learn by reading here.  I was not psychologically addicted to tramadol & have never craved the pills but until I finally realised what was happening, (which also took too long because tramadol seriously fogged my brain), I was constantly in withdrawal due to trying to maintain the prescribed dose.

  The doctors also didn't determine that tramadol was the problem & I ended up on sleeping pills for the tramadol insomnia which subjected me to another nightmare of withdrawals.

The second & probably more serious issue, is that tramadol is classified as non-addictive in most states and countries.  It is clear from a limited number of medical studies & a much larger volume of anecdotal accounts on this site & others, that for some people, tramadol is as, if not more addictive than any natural or synthetic opiate.

It's great that tramadol has worked so well for you but potential users also need to know the real risks of tolerance & addiction that result in tramadol being the worst thing that ever happened to them, (as it was for me).

Having said that, the psychological insights & strength that many of you here are developing add great value to any life. Sunny, overcoming anxiety attacks as you are, this is powerful stuff.

We are all doing our best to make lemonade from the tramadol lemon but people need to be forewarned that they by starting tramadol they may be forced into a prolonged exercise in compulsory character development.  

Strength to all,

M

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by EmilyPost, Nov 06, 2009
Keyser_Soze


The name one of my favorite characters from a great great movie ...



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by forget_me_not, Nov 06, 2009
Madtram, wonderfully stated.

From the actual manufacturer's product labeling:

“ULTRAM may induce psychic and physical dependence of the morphine-type (µ-opioid).  Dependence and abuse, including drug-seeking behavior and taking illicit actions to obtain the drug are not limited to those patients with prior history of opioid dependence.  The risk in patients with substance abuse has been observed to be higher.  ULTRAM is associated with craving and tolerance development.  Withdrawal symptoms may occur if ULTRAM is discontinued abruptly.”

Soso, many of us have been exactly where you are -- taking the drug for legitimate pain, believing it was truly helping us live better lives.  Most of us have probably even made use of the insulin analogy when confronted with anything that challenged our justifications for continuing to take it.  There are endless ways to rationalize staying on the medication when you believe it is helping you, saving you.  Fewer once it begins to tear you down physically and psychologically, complicating and worsening conditions such as depression and anxiety disorders.  I hope this doesn't happen to you.  I wouldn't wish it upon the most detestable person I can think of.

Unfortunately, the drug, even when used as prescribed, does cause many problems for people.  It also bears distinguishing abuse from dependency.  Some of us do abuse substances created and used for legitimate (or other) purposes. However, there are a couple of problems.  1: many of us were misled regarding the addictive nature of tramadol; and 2: we are then stuck with the label of "addict" when the dependency begins wreaking havoc on our bodies and minds.  And, according to the manufacturer's own literature, this dependency happens in 90% - yes, 90% of those who take it.

I know of nobody here, or anywhere, who would have ever swallowed the first pill - even if they knew all the miraculous, wonderful short-term effects - if they had any inclination what lay in store for them further on up the road.

This is a place for people who are recovering, and we welcome you in the hope you will be respectful of that.  We all have more than our fair share of self-reproach over our shortcomings, and as you'll see, we don't deny them.  We don't shirk the portion of blame that is rightfully ours.  That's a practice that we tended much more toward while still feeding, and defending, the tramadol addiction.

peace and blessings, Warriors.  Fight on.

~fmn

Avatar universal
by newway, Nov 06, 2009
Notso and Jenny - I am sure you can tell by my increaed posting that the anxiety and cravings are starting to wear me down.  I am trying to distract myself - keep busy.  I do go to AA and find great support there.  In AA they say service to others is a great way to get out of yourself - your own struggles and help someone else.  I think at times the addiction becomes all encompasing and I need to focus on building a life without it.
My big fear is slipping - giving into the addiction.  My pride makes it tough for me to fess up.  It took me months to get back to AA when I had slipped.  Again, addiction is cunning and powerful - it has a hold over me that even when I know I am being stuborn, and letting my pride prevent me from doing what I need to do - I still have to fight to get past it.  Like many of you - I want to be free of this poison - but I also want to remain free of it.  My self esteem has been beaten to a pulp - a relapse would be really tough on me.
I am so thankful for this forum - when I am at AA I am shy, and rarely speak.  Here - I can read, think and be honest without worrying what others will think.  It gives me just enough distance to feel safe with being honest, yet still feel very connected with everyone.

SoSo - I have struggled with your question in my own life.  Before tram turned on me - I would never have thought of quiting.  It managed my pain, I was more alert than other narcotics I had been on, I had energy and a sense of well being.  After a few years it did turn on me - I couldn't find a dose that worked - and was in distress most of the time - if I took enough to keep the withdrawals away I was in a constant fog - just numb.  It took me 3 years of this before I realized that the sacrifice was too much.
I guess that is the battle those of us with chronic pain face - the effects of the drugs vs pain management.  I do know some who are on tram and have been able to maintain a low dose and feel okay - it manages the pain and they do not seem to build up a tolerance - all the power to them - without it, walking would be difficult.  Unfortunately, I think they are in the minority - narcotics generally take a part of us - our concentration, memory, energy level etc. - it is just a matter if the trade off for pain management is worth it.  I don't think there is an easy answer - we are all different.  If I could have continued to feel and use the same amount I did in the first few years - I wouldn't be on here.
Good luck



Avatar universal
by notsosunny, Nov 06, 2009
Newway, I tend to post alot more when I am feeling the dread, the cravings and the anxiety, too. By doing that it has saved me on more than one occasion from making a bad decision. This is difficult, trust me, I know. I am walking the walk with ya. I am still having cravings. When I get upset and anxious it is still so easy to think that the trams would stop the negative feelings. I honestly know that isn't the case. It only stops it momentarily then the misery comes back with a vengeance.. This is sheer misery for me and I know it is for so many others here. I read the posts from the ones who are further along in this journey and they inspire me to continue fighting. Well, actually, everyone here inspires me and gives me hope that this can be conquered. Just remember that you are definitely not alone!

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by Keyser_Soze, Nov 06, 2009
The way that all of you embrace each new group of lost souls is truly amazing. I am humbled.


cont'd-


I spent the last two weeks of October planning my escape from Tramadol. Gathering the key ingredients from the Thomas Recipe, trying to taper down (didn't work), and how to tell my beautiful wife what was about to happen to me. I circled November 1st on the calendar and took one last Tramadol that evening. Let the games begin.

Day 1(Nov 2)-I remember waking up much earlier than normal and feeling pretty good about myself. My confidence was high as I felt like I had prepared well for my seperation from Lady Tram. That confidence was quickly eroded as the day wore on. My relationship with Tramadol was hardly ever one of a physical nature. Yes, it helped numb the pain in my back but getting high was nothing that I had much use for. It was the mental side where I was weak. Insomnia, depression and anxiety were my enemies and they were not too happy with my decision.
That night, before bed, the second-guessing began and I thought of way too many reasons to take another pill. My anxiety level was beginning to take off which meant that there would be no sleep and every muscle in my body was aching. But I refused to give in. Finally after 2 Epsom Salt baths and some ES Melatonin I was able to sleep for a couple of hours. Not sound sleep, but sleep.

Days 2 & 3(Nov 3,4)-These two days brought out the most intense levels of depression and anxiety that I had ever felt. Emotions were almost uncontrollable and the ringing in my ears began. I doubted my decision a hundred times that second day and scheduled a doctors appintment on day 3 as I knew that I was not going to be able to do this without more help.
I got virtually no sleep on the second night. Most of the night was spent reading posts on this forum and drawing energy from the words. Quite a few of you are just like me-fighting to get through the first week and praying that it gets easier.
I didn't want to get out of bed on the 3rd day but was committed to a doctors appointment so I did. I tried to rehease what I would say to my doctor but could not think clearly enough to feel confident. On my way to the appointment the song House of Pain by Faster Pussycat came on the radio. I turned it up really loud.
My turn for the good happened at the doctors office. You see, I have agreat relationship with my doctor and we converse often on personal levels as well as professional. I felt that like my wife, I had let my doctor down. When she walked into the the room her face told me how I looked to her. She put her hand on mine and told me that whatever it was we could get through it. I began tearing up and somehow choked out that I couldn't take Tramadol anymore but I didn't know if I could stop. She told me that I could stop because the could help me. There was no doubt in her voice I knew that she had the power. I just didn't know what she had in store. But I felt like I had a great ally and That I might just make it yet.

more later

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by Keyser_Soze, Nov 07, 2009
"Verbal: Keaton always said, "I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of him." Well I believe in God, and the only thing that scares me is Keyser Soze."

classic stuff from 'The Usual Suspects'

Avatar universal
by inspiring, Nov 07, 2009
Hello all,  I have been away for a little while – the honest truth is I was on day 4 and couldn’t stand it. I had 5 tram pills left and I started with them again – the only reason I am back here posting my confessions is when I read TRAMMAN999 posts about taking 2 pills and how guilty and scared he was – So to report - Day 1 and 2 were fairly easy, I thought I had it beat – I was sleeping better without and I thought I was one of the lucky ones – then day 3 and 4 were horrible and I couldn’t sleep and so I had my 5 pills and decided to take ½ a day to taper, but by day 6 I took ONE pill just to feel good enough to get thru the day – I have now been 2 days off again and I have been sleeping in the day time from sheer exhaustion but at night I can’t sleep. before I tried NOT taking day naps so that my night sleep would not be ruined but nothing worked.  I have been SO tired last couple days – I think of BOOBA and her life and kids and can’t imagine how folks with responsibilities with family and jobs keep going. I am self employed and got all my work done, plus cleaned house and truck, so ALL I had to do was take care of me.  It is damn hard tho – I was fully up to date with thomas recipe, I had prepared my body with vitamins and aminos, good food etc -  then I went off everything - couldn’t handle taking vitamins as I get indigestion easily when trying to take pills (FUNNY that I never had any trouble swallowing the trams !!!) I am a mess, I SHOULD have flushed those last 5 tram pills – now I have only 1 and ½ left and have no desire to take them, but it makes me realize how I stupid I was to keep them around. I was just so scared of not having any, I was ‘testing the waters’ to make sure I could

I welcome KEITHTRAM and wish he could read the posts from the last 2 threads – the info helped me so much (even tho I just blew it) I am going to post the urls of the last 2 threads incase anyone wants extra reading. Thread 17 is here  http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/128660 and thread 18 is here http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/132231 a lot of good info on WD help
One thing I want to add, the valerian root gave me VIVID nightmares, I will NOT have that again

I so appreciate everyones posts and writing it all down myself makes me feel a little better. Thank you to PHARMA9 for insightful posts

I think the L-tyroine was really helping me, I need to start taking the caplets again and hope I don’t get indigestion

FORGETMENOT is a priceless gift with her writing, thank you all for your support


Avatar universal
by inspiring, Nov 07, 2009
To Pharma9 - I was reading older posts and you asked tramman999   'who has fireworks in November'   WELL I am also from england (lived in USA for past 36 yrs) and in england we celebrate Guy Fawkes Day on Nov 5th.  We used to build a bonfire all week and collect pennies for the guy. We would buy fireworks and burn the guy on the fire just thought you might enjoying knowing this

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Nov 07, 2009
Hello T-Warriors!!!

Wow, I didn't log on for a few days and I barely recognize the neighborhood.   Welcome Keyser and others new to this place.  

Soso, I agree with madtrad, newway and FMNN.   This is a relatively newish drug (circa 1995) and from what I can determine, the tests done to get this to market weren't all that extensive.  There are a few problems with the "insulin" analogy.  Diabetics use insulin to regulate blood sugar toward normal levels.   They don't develop tolerance to insulin as people using tramadol do.   Insulin doesn't zone one out as tramadol does.   And no diabetic I know (and I know a few) has cravings for their insulin.   But try a simple test SoSo...stop taking your tramadol for three days and then come back and tell us how inconsequential and harmless his drug is.    And if you wish to continue to take this drug, nobody here will try to stop you.  But please don't advocate the use of this horrible drug to others.   Cause most here KNOW this drug and just desire to be free from it's clutches.  

In the end, tramadol no longer "helped my pain, IT CAUSED MY PAIN.

notsosunny, you said, "That is what I am battling the most. FEELING REAL FEELINGS AGAIN! I just haven't learned yet how to cope with life and stress because I have literally been numb for over a decade. Physically I feel pretty decent..emotionally I am a wreck on and off. One minute I am fine and then BOOM..I crash."   Well put.   What I found after the first 5-6 days was that I was very emotional too.  I could have cried at a rock.   As this drug looses it's hold on us, we do begin to feel EVERYTHING that had been fogged out while in the zomby zone.    At about the one week mark, I also suffered from lack of concentration and the inability to make decisions.  My eyes watered and my eyesight was blurry during that time.  And have any of you 1-2 weekers experienced unusual crazy SNEEZING?  

I have always maintained that if a drug is so powerful, as to continue to cause both acute and post acute withdrawal symptoms this strong, it can't have me.   And I took refuge in the knowledge that every day I didn't put the lovely white pill in my mouth, I was drawing one day closer to complete freedom.  In a few weeks, I will celebrate one year of freedom from this drug.  And I would do it all over again today if I had to, in order to experience life on life's terms again.

At about the 1-2 week mark, I began asking, how much longer until I am completely whole again?  Back to pre-tram emotions, feelings, vision, etc. etc.?   I recall that some told me that recovery continues for six months or more.   Not those crazy acute withdrawal symptoms, but subtile things do continue to improve.   For myself, I think that I realized at about the 3 month mark that I was essentially "normal" again. (whatever that is for me!).  Today, when people ask, I like to say simply that it takes "weeks and weeks" to return to (your) normal.  

Some of you here are also taking benzos.   From what I have gathered from people like Emily, KC and others, benzo withdrawal can be pretty severe.  If anyone has been taking them for any length of time, you might want to consider holding off on withdrawing from them until several months out from tram withdrawal.    Drop a note madtram, KC or Emily and I expect they could offer a suggestion or two on this.

Notsosunny, I am so glad that you were able to hang on a few nights ago.  Like FMN said, sometimes just making it through the night gets us a brand new day.   And at the point you are at now, the bad days may still come, but they should become less and less frequent.  

Courage Strength and Loveto all of you,

fred

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Nov 07, 2009
Inspiring,  Glad you are back at it.   Any day above the ground gives us new hope.   Today really is all we have.

You mentioned valerian root.   Am I the only one who can't stand the smell of that stuff?   fred

Avatar universal
by chrissie145, Nov 07, 2009
The sun is shining in Somerset UK (hopefully on you in Devon too Dave!)

12 stepper - thanks for encouraging post - always helps to read your words
.
Pharma - I was interested in the fact that you cant take too much B12 and have just taken 3000mcg instead of my usual 1000mcg. (Is this truly okay and could I take even more?!!)

FMN Thank you for  your kind words to my son - I have cut and pasted them to him.

Newway. Sorry that the w/d are beginning to bite. You are much appreciated by me and a lot of others on this forum. We are all with you and KNOW you can do this. I think tapering is hard and I certainly didnt have the patience to do it. You have been steadily planning and walking through yours for weeks now and your self control is awesome. I have read with amazement how many have come through this at the speed of light compared to me. (But then I think the benzo trap is what is causing me pain now -  not tramadol) . I am praying that when your time comes to jump - you will be blessed with a faster recovery too. Stick with it and keep in touch!

I dont 'know' the latest group so well - but promise that I am with you all in this battle!!!!

Chrissie

Avatar universal
by chrissie145, Nov 07, 2009
Sososo. I am feeling for you at the momemt. The suffering of the folk here means that our heart is to protect anyone who appears to be in danger from the awful trap we fell into. It hurts so much when you are still in it (eventually) and is utter agony to get out of. Maybe you ARE one of the lucky ones who will not be addicted. But I have my doubts. I dont think tramadol takes many prisoners. Most of us came the way of physical pain or injury and did not begin the drug to get 'high'. It wasnt a recreational thing but  'supposedly' an answer to our problem of pain. Just like you!

There is no judgement here however - just support. Lots and lots of it. And then when you are sure you must have drunk the barrel dry - there is even more. I was seriously suicidal back in July. I am not even sure that i would have made it without the forum. They saw me through C/T  off tramadol. Then  Benzo detox in a psychiatric ward. (I actually posted from the hospital) and certain folk have been caring and faithful ever since - as I still struggle. In turn my experiences have helped others who have come after me.

We are all wounded warriors here  - or beggars - showing the other beggars where we got the bread. Join us if - or when you are ready - and you will be supported more than you could ever imagine.

Chrissie

Avatar universal
by hanginin, Nov 07, 2009
Good Morning Everyone.  Day 16 for several of us and I slept better last night than I have so far. Everyone in the early days of the CT just hang on and it will get better. For everybody having emotional issues and the wild racing thoughts try to exercise if possible. The more exercise you get the better you will feel and without the trams you can do so much more.  Instead of scheduling you workout or day around the pills do what you want to do as long as you want to do it.  I cant stress enough that things really get better every day.
Keep strong today and lets all get thru another day tram free.
Hanginin

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 07, 2009
Good morning everyone..I only get every second Saturday off from work and this is it.It is a nice fall day 8 degreesC,ie 42F outside and cloudy with sunny periods.I just gots to get some outside work done.Will be doing that a little later in the afternoon when it warms up a bit.For now I will chat on my computer to all my friends.I have seen a lot of positive progress in the time I have been here and see new people joining every day.We are people who want to change our lives for the better and are willing to help each other along.So many of the cries I heard from people are becoming less desperate and more triumphant.We do not judge here,for after all how could we judge when we have been guilty of many things.We are here to support and help eachother and everyone on this forum and welcome any person who reaches out to us.Some people want to be anonymous and others don't.That is why this internet forum is so helpful because anyone with internet can join and find help and find that they are not alone.There is safety in numbers and if anyone feels weak all they have to do is post and we will understand and respond.With that I gots to go and love and healing to everyone.

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by Keyser_Soze, Nov 07, 2009
Top of the day to all and thanks for helping me get through another day yesterday(Day 5). Next up Day 6 and its a nice sunny day.

Has anyone experienced non-stop ringing in your ears? Mine has been ringing since day 3. As a side note I was put on Clonidine on day 3 by my doctor. She felt that it would help lower my blood pressure as well as help minimize the opiate withdrawel symtoms. It has definitely lowered my pressure and my symptoms seem to be mild compared to most but the ringing in the ears is driving me crazyyy.

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by booba77, Nov 07, 2009
i feel horrible and it is day 9 but i am getting either a cold or the swine flu.  i just wish the energy would come back.  i would kill for anything ti make me feel better right now.  very depressed and low today too.  please tell me it gets better.  the tram must be totally outta my system now. still have very loose bowels.  gotta run.  here is to day 9.......hope it gets better......

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by captmike79, Nov 07, 2009
Hello everyone.  Thank You to whoever created this site.  I have sat and read many stories of this devil pill called tramadol. Here is my story.  In my life I have had many surgeries.  During the age of 16 I had a severe car accident.  In total i went through about 30 surgeries mostly for facial reconstruction.  At the age of 23 I had my first back surgery.  Almost two years ago I had my second surgery @ the age of 28.  Through all that pain as a young man, I was never given Tramadol.  My severe pain was controlled with Oxycontin, an a few other opiates.  I know what the with draws from those drugs were like.  All in all no very bas a day or two of the sweats and shakes, and i was ok, it was not easy.  

Well about 10 months ago I met the evil little 50mg tramadol.  I have some knee problems so i didnt have my normal 10/325 percs with me.  Well that was the beginning of it all.  I never got as doctors script for Tramadol.  THIS IS THE SCARY PART, I CAN ORDER IT ON THE INTERNET AND HAVE IT TO MY DOOR THE NEXT DAY!!!.  Well I started to order one bottle of 120 50mg trams.  I just entered the gates of hell at that point.  I did not read anything about how easy this stuff is to get on this forum yet.  Well as of 2 weeks ago i was getting about 3 FED EX packages of 180 bottles of 50mg tramadol OFF THE INTERNET!!!   I got to the point where I would not even count the pills.  I opened the bottle and shook out a small handfull, chewed! them and downed a bottle of water!  I was taking upwards of 40 50mg trams per day at some points.   I felt like GOD!  
  
Well I started to have some anxiety so I went to my doctor (reminder my doctor never knew I was taking tramadol)  She put me on Lexapro and Ativan.  This was about one month ago.  So I was taking Lexapro, Ativan, Tramadol, Mobic, Percs all in one messed up drug cocktail!

I quit taking the Lexapro because of some side effects (impotence) a few weeks ago.  I then stoped the adivan because it did nothing for me.  Well I just didn't feel myself.  I'm not th kind of man that needs pills to make my life better!  I Have a great life!  
I decided to quit everything COLD TURKEY!   WOW what a supprise I was in for!    Today is Day 4 of no tramadol for me.  I went through hell the past few days and hope i am on the downhill side!!  I had mental breakdowns,  crying at anything, just weird stuff.  3 nights ago I had an experience that was so unreal I was seeing people in my bedroom and talking to them.  People that have passed years ago.  I was tripping or something almost I think.  I was awake!  WEIRD!!!

Well everyone 4 days of no tramadol cold turkey put me in the darkest corner of my life i have ever seen!  But it is possible to break the habit!  I took two 180 count bottles of tramadol and ran them down the garbage disposal!  I did not experience allot of the withdraw symptoms  i have read here.  I am taking a half of a 10/325 perc to help the pain some.  I know I can come off opioid s much easier and with such a small dose it should not be a problem.  

I just want to tell everyone it is possible.  maybe because i was on a short amount of time at VERY VERY hight doses things were somewhat different for me.  As I type this I am in bed.  Sick, feeling like I'm crawling out of my skin.  I cry and cry and there is no trigger to start the crying.   I will win, I am stronger, I want my normal life back!  

I am supposed to be getting married and thank god my girl was beside me throught this.  She is at work now so i need to keep my mind occupied.  I dont know how long this will last but I am alive!   I am alive!

What can we do to shut down these on-line pharmacies that send tramadol to your doorstep?  Something needs to be done!!!!!!!!!!!    If anyone wants to talk I am here and just let me know, ill e mail you my # or whatever.    

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by forget_me_not, Nov 07, 2009
Captmike, first of all, Welcome to our little Miracle Forum -- a place where miracles happen every single day.  You are in the right place!

My goodness...after reading your introduction I am just speechless.  You are so brave, and I know that while you may not feel right now that you've already begun helping others, you have.

4 days without tramadol after being addicted will definitely put you into the Seventh Circle of Hell.  Please know that, right now, you feel just about as bad as you are ever going to feel.  And while it won't get better overnight, trust me and the others here who promise you IT WILL get better.

The depression, crying, pain, mental breakdowns, hallucinations -- it's all part of the terrible experience of WD.  Please go easy on yourself and understand that your nervous system is revolting against the poison, and it will heal and restore itself in due time.  Try to live in the moment, not worrying about what the next one will bring.  The next one cannot be predicted.  Tramadol withdrawal is insanely random for complicated biochemical reasons I'll never fully grasp.  But it is temporary, and if you take one moment at a time, better moments are on their way...sooner than you think!

Be strong, and know that you have our full support.  Let us help if we can.

peace,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by tman4071, Nov 07, 2009
hey all day 9 at 7p.m .....when in the heck does the energy come back......slept well just very sluggish ....everyone with  less days then me ,,,,hang in there it WILL GET BETTer ,,,,,
ty everyone ,,,,needed you all

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by forget_me_not, Nov 07, 2009
Tman... hang in there.  I felt the same way at that point in my recovery.  In fact, I remember thinking at around day 10 that there was just no explanation for still feeling that fatigued.  I became extremely worried over never recovering - at least to a point that was tolerable.  How in the world could we live if it didn't get better?

We couldn't.  It does.

Your healing is moving along in huge and profound ways that you aren't aware of right now.  And VERY soon you'll feel everything start to turn around.  Please, hang in there.  It's coming together.

If I can help, I will.

~fmn

Avatar universal
by tman4071, Nov 07, 2009
ty,,,before i use to play very commpetive r ball around the state,,,then came tram,and i did nt want to leave the house ..havnt played since last jan.....now that iam off for 9 days i feel i coulnt run across to the otherside of the court..
ty

334144 tn?1423248271
by booba77, Nov 07, 2009
i hear u tman.  i am on day 9 and ezhausted as well....keep pluggin along.....take it day by day....tomorrow will be better....it has to be

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by me1414, Nov 07, 2009
I am finally on day one of my total lack of tram, after a week of taper. The wd started the 1st day of tapering and I hope the worst of this is over. I have been able to get up and do more each day. I have been walking in the morning and taking a couple of 30 minute naps when I just cant go on. FinallyFred, you asked about the sneezing. I have been sneezing more in the last week than I have my whole life. I am having such a hard time wraping my head around why this is so hard. I wanted to get off of drugs when the doc gave me this stuff. I wasn't supposed to have a hard time doing this. I am feeling a little depressed right now. I feel like the weight of the world is pressing me down when I try to get up and move. I want so much to be free. I know I can be. Even with lexipro I am up and down emotionally. I actually felt euphoric on Thursday night. Even last night I was happy and thinking that this is going to work. Then I woke up today feeling horrible. My body and brain hurts. Even thru the pain tho, I am not tempted to go get more. This will not be my life forever. I will not let a drug control me. For now that statement will have to be enuf.

Avatar universal
by inspiring, Nov 07, 2009
Oh god I feel for EVERY brave person on this forum, who share their pain as well as their successes, my thanks go out to those who answered me and gave me support

Last night I tried the Nyquil – I slept thank goodness - tho had some pretty strange dreams – woke up feeling groggy but determined to have a better day.  My energy lasted for about 2 hrs. It was hard to try and do anything (I am moving house and trying to pack and sort etc) I kept telling myself, JUST do that chore and then rest. LITTLE steps - not looking at the whole dismal picture and getting overwhelmed. My attitude is OK but negative thoughts intrude – I am blown away by the support on this forum – it feels good to be able to share the little things – I worry about others who are having a bad time BUT their bravery is astounding – for those incredible souls who are at day 9 and beyond I wish I was there with you – but I will follow along and keep trying to make it thru the day TRAM FREE


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by me1414, Nov 07, 2009
Inspiring, I so know how you feel. I got up and did a few things, lasted a few hours at most. Then bam I was tired and feeling low. On the weekends the kids are all running around. They all want so much and I am barely able to do the things I need to do to get thru the day. I continually read about the people who have to go to work and take comfort from their strength. I dont know how they do it.

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by captmike79, Nov 07, 2009
forget_me_not  

thank you so much for your encouraging words.  I got out today, talk to a friend while my girl was at work just for someone to be with untill she got home.  I thank God that I have a girl that understands and is beside me helping me.  I am trying the hot showers, they seem to work a little.  I talked to my local pharmacist today and he told me he dosnt know of that bad of withdraw symptoms with the drug.  I told him you have got to be kidding me it is the devils drug.  

I am taking vitamins along with a zinc/Magnesium/calcium multi.  Ups and downs, cry at the drop of a hat about nothing this is how I am feeling right now.   I know i am one of the toughest mother #$%@!#@ out there.  I have been through so much this is not going to bring me down.  

I get angry and yell at my WD's , I fight them literally!   I really hope tomorrow gets better than today.  I know it will its only 24 hours away!

To everyone going through this may god be with you and best of luck to you all.   Fight Back!!!  

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 07, 2009
Keyser- I'm also on Clonodine temporarily and I think it helps at night. I actually got the ringing when taking tramadol, not so much now.

For those of you considering relapse, first, make access harder.  I know you can go online, but at least don't keep them in the house.  I learned that when I quit smoking.  Why would a non-smoker have a pack of cigarettes?  Likewise, why would anyone who doesn't take tramadol have them?  They wouldn't.  So, I don't know, I just try to make things as unavailable as you can.  Sometimes staying away from them is the best thing we can do.  Physically staying away I mean.

I want to write to everyone, but I did an all day yoga thing and I'm really tired.  Have a slight headache.  Not sure if it's the tramadol withdrawal or lack of caffeine today. :)  I think the emotional part of tramadol actually seems to get harder the further I get out.  I still miss that feeling of being more energetic.  But it's better most of the time.  Just a lot to sort out in my head one day!

Booba- You hang in there!

I just always try to remember that I'm never going to stop quitting, so a relapse just makes this so much harder.  I mean even if you give in and use, one day either mentally or physically, you'll have to stop again and it will just be harder.

So, that's why I'm not using today.  Day 4 (and a half now!).  

Jenny

Avatar universal
by notsosunny, Nov 07, 2009
Hi Everyone..

Fred, I first wanted to say thank you for the wonderful kind words. This has been an experience like none other. Dealing with so much chaos and w/d's on top of it all...I still can't believe as I am sitting here today that I am still tram free. BUT I AM! Thank God and I thank you guys. I am indeed feeling real feelings again and I am still not sure what to do with myself. I am shaky and anxious...Can't focus on one thing too long. It is seriously like I have ADD. I am jumping from one chore to another without actually finishing anything. It will get better though. I am actually starting to think I am stronger than I gave myself credit for.

I have had a busy day. I have to return to the burn unit with my daughter tomorrow. It is a long drive and it is going to be just me and my daughter. So I am a little anxious about that. I don't do well with long drives. The pain starts getting to me a couple hours in. I can do it though. Then Monday skin graph surgery for my girl hopefully if she has healed enough ad that is what I am really anxious about. She'll be fine. I just hate to think about her being put under again!!! I have been busy today doing laundry and cleaning as my Mom is coming to hold down the fort here while I am away. Trying now to cook 2 or 3 days worth of meals ahead of time. Lots to do and I am notorious for waiting until the last minute to do anything.  

I just wanted to pop in an say Hi and tell you guys I have been thinking about you all as I am trying to get some things accomplished around my house.

I will check in later when I have more time and my thoughts together. :)

Keep fighting.

Avatar universal
by notsosunny, Nov 07, 2009
CaptMike...Keyser..Inspiring..(If I missed anyone I apologize), Welcome! You are in the right place. The people here and the support they offer is AMAZING. I just wanted to take the time to say hello and say keep your heads up..It will get better for all of us!

Booba..I think day 9 was a very hard day for me, too...H*ll..what day hasn't been hard for me? You are doing great. Hang in there. We are all doing great..We are still here and that is what counts. XOXOXOXOXO!!!!

Peace & healing...

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 07, 2009
Hi everyone.Good to see that everyone is still fighting the good fight.Had awonderful day with my daughter and we drove 2 hrs away to an herbal nursery to buy some herbs to grow indoors.I got a tea tree and rosemary and stuff.Great smells.Kind of funny,she is into herbs and I am into hard drugs.....not the narcotic kind,but the Rx kind.She is studying to be an herbalist and here I am dispensing drugs.I think actually we can work together because herbs can work with prescription drugs and enhance each other.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 07, 2009
Hi everyone.Good to see that everyone is still fighting the good fight.Had awonderful day with my daughter and we drove 2 hrs away to an herbal nursery to buy some herbs to grow indoors.I got a tea tree and rosemary and stuff.Great smells.Kind of funny,she is into herbs and I am into hard drugs.....not the narcotic kind,but the Rx kind.She is studying to be an herbalist and here I am dispensing drugs.I think actually we can work together because herbs can work with prescription drugs and enhance each other.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 07, 2009
Oops posted too soon again.One of the best natural things to help arthritic pain is glucosamine with chondroitin which helps build up the cartilage that is destroyed in arthritis.It takes a bit of time but if one persists,one can help some of the damage of arthritis.It along with extra str tylenol or ibuprofen can help knee pain or even back pain.Our orthopedic surgeon says he actually sees the good results from that supplement.I must stress to everyone on here that the rebound pain from narcotics and tramadol which is really a narcotic is worse than the original pain and when the rebound pain subsides most people are able to cope with non rx pain meds.That is the case with me and I am in less pain now than when I was taking narcotics.I am able to do more with less pain.Who needs narcotics?The days are adding up for most of the posters and they are more days closer to total recovery.It is so good to see everyone progressing,not always with ease but progressing nontheless.Love and good healing to all.I don't know how I posted twice.Screwed up I guess.

Avatar universal
by notsosunny, Nov 07, 2009
Pharma...I tell ya what, you are absolutely correct about the rebound pain. Now my pain level is staying pretty much where it stayed when I was popping the trams but the rebound pain was too much to take at times. Today it is a little worse than usual, but I have done alot of bending and lifting. Nothing I can't handle, though. I tried to explain it to my husband and the only thing I could come up with is that I feel like I have been on laughing gas for years. Still feeling the pain and aware of what was going on but just not caring. Just in a constant state of brain fog. He kinda snapped at me earlier because every little thing is getting to me and I am lashing out. That is when I explained to him that actually feeling EVERYTHING again is very overwhelming for me at this point. I just can't wait for the day when I no longer feel like this. I want to wake up and feel like ME again. I don't think I remember the real me anymore. I guess I need to focus on getting to know myself again. I am so out of touch with me and reality. I keep telling myself that THIS TOO SHALL PASS.

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by Keyser_Soze, Nov 07, 2009
captmike79-I feel your pain brother. I hadn't cried in years until I started my withdrawal. Today I cried while watching baby ducks follow their mother in a pond. ???? You've already been through a lot in your life-you can do this and it will get better.

JG525-Clonodine really dropped my blood pressure. It had shot up as soon as I stopped the Trams. You're being smart by doing things like yoga and staying active. I've found that physical activity makes a big difference too. You seem to be doing well and at 4 1/2 days are well on your way.


I'm a big music found and have found a lot of comfort in watching music videos on YouTube lately. Has anyone else used music as therapy? Any special songs or albums?  Here's one of my favorites-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcsVPis1iNs



Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 07, 2009
Keyser..you are doing all the right things and have a great attitude .The crying while watching the baby ducks is sooo cute.Awww.A lot of the people have been able to drown themselves in music either singing,listening or making music because you know it soothes the soul.Welcome to the group.You can spill your guts here and everyone will understand.We will help you if you falter and pick you up if you fall down.Captmike,you are also doing a good thing by getting angry and fighting the enemy of withdrawal.Welcome as well.

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 07, 2009
Pharma- I like the idea of combining herbs and meds as well.  I wish there were more people skilled in both.

Keyser- That clonidine definitely helps at night.  It's a small dose, so who knows.  My klonopin has helped a lot too.  Will take care of that down the road.   I don't abuse it at least!

I've been crying a lot too.  
Just at random things.  TV, radio, yoga retreat.  LOL

Not so sunny...you're right that this too shall pass.  

Have a good night everyone.

Jenny

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by captmike79, Nov 07, 2009
Everyone!

  Thank you.  I am up alone in the living room now.  I had to let my baby get some sleep without tossing and keeping here awake all night like last.  I took another hot shower.  I have been subscribed  Klonopin.  It seems to help some.  Has anyone else used this during WD's?  I have a knee surgery coming up in two weeks.  I have Percocet to control the knee pain.  I take one and it helps.  I have been on Percs before on high dose and do not have severe WD;s one day of sweating a little.  NOTHING like tramadol.  I am about 4 days into this and I'm happy to say that I think I am over the worst?  Maybe I am not?  
I am not keeping this a secret from anyone in my family, all the support I can get I will take.   I don't know how I will feel when I get up in the morning.  I hope its better!  

For me when I loose it and cry it is the worst for me.  hopefully there are less tears tomorrow!  I'm fighting this with everything I have.  Good luck to everyone!  I never knew there were so many of us out there!  Thank you Thank You for all the kind words.  Just have to remember I AM ALIVE!  and it will get better!        

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 07, 2009
Captmike..You do not have to be embarassed or ashamed for being addicted to tramadol and I don't think you are.Doctors innocently prescribed this drug to replace opiate addiction thinking they had the ideal substitute.Here they had a so called non narcotic with antidepressant properties that was not as addicting as codeine and other stronger opiates.NOT..This bs was fed to them by the drug companies and sales reps and they were not aware of its addicting potential.Most people on this forum got started innocently and the compulsion progressed.This drug seems to produce a tolerance factor where more and more drug is needed to get the same effect much more rapidly than other opiates.It is not even classed as a controlled or narcotic in Canada but I think it should.At least when a doctor prescribes a narcotic you are warned about its addicting potential and take it carefully.I warn all my customers about the addiction potential and difficulty in stopping the drug.I tell them to only take as directed and if they feel they need more perhaps they should slow down now or stop.It also has way more interactions with other meds because of its ssri properties.One of the doctors in my town is so angry with the rep and company because he was told it was safe.You are on the right path and if your pain is controlled with less harmful drugs it is better.

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by forget_me_not, Nov 07, 2009
Good Evening, Warriors!

You are all so very inspiring.  Jenny, the random crying is so familiar.  I was never sure whether it was the WD entirely, or perhaps a combination of WD and the buildup of years worth of emotion I hadn't really experienced.  Keyser -- I cried at anything even remotely sentimental.  And Captmike, yes, the crying does sort of open the floodgates of emotion, much of it we experience as unpleasant even though it's actually perfectly normal, even healing.  When I cried it was fitful, almost like tidal waves of emotion (and a LOT of anguish and anger) that overwhelmed, even frightened me sometimes.  How can someone feel that much?  Certainly that can't be what it is like to be free from this drug.  If it were, I simply couldn't function in the world everyday where we have to keep our emotions at a reasonable level.  I was worried about myself in so many ways.

But as with everything else during WD/healing, it's so very intensified.  And as the physical pain subsides, so does the exaggerated emotion.  You'll feel plenty -- but not as much as you're feeling right now.

Notsosunny, your words about not remembering the "real you" anymore...Wow.  I can SO deeply relate to that.  And yes, it's so overwhelming to feel everything so much more strongly than you did, or than others seem to.  I think of it as a pendulum that will swing back to "normal" eventually...but we've been so long on the "tramafog" side, gravity first has to pull the pendulum way over to the hypersensitive side before it can find its way to the precious middle again.  Just feel.  When it gets overpowering, know that it does pass.  You're healing, coming home to yourself, on your way back to sanity.

Warriors, I have never been more proud to count myself among a group of people, ever.  Each and every one of you is making such a valuable contribution here, not only for yourselves, but for the rest of us, too.  I look forward each day to reading everyone's experiences (good and bad, we're here to share ALL of it in truth and acceptance), wisdom, reflection.  There's so much healing going on here and that gives me strength to endure whatever I happen upon.

Love and peace to all of you this night.  

~fmn

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by forget_me_not, Nov 07, 2009
I want to celebrate with this special group of fighters my own victory: NINE WEEKS today!  It is still so miraculous, so amazing to me.  Each day of freedom is more precious to me than diamonds.  

I am truly rich today, and you all are among my treasures...

blessings,

~fmn

Avatar universal
by newway, Nov 07, 2009
I am with you captmike - I have fought other opiate addiction - and come of Oxycontin CT - it was a cake walk compared to this!

I have tried CT off tram before - and cannot imagine doing it again - the darkness that engulfed me scared me more than anything.  I was having suicidal thoughts, seeing things etc.  I couldn't do it.   I have nothing but respect for those of you fighting through this - I am a little envious - you will be free of it sooner than me - but the fear that my first experience left with me is overwhelming - so a taper it is.
Tapering  is brutal in a different way.  My partner has the tram, so I can't take extra - and I have fought off the urge to order more - but the cravings are crazy these last few days.  The withdrawal is less - not as dark - minor physical discomfort, but not near as tired or dark as I was when I went CT.  I am now down to 300mg - from 1000mg - I am thrilled.  The fog is lifting and my head is much clearer.  My energy is better - still really low - but showering was a task a few months ago!  I have what I would call a case of the mild flu.  The anxiety and RLS are the most annoying things - but an easy trade off to how I felt on 1000mg.
I am one of those that will have to deal with my benzo use once I am off tram - I only use them at night - so I get sleep.
But when I read JC's posts about the Benzo withdrawal - I know I will have another battle to fight.
All this because I was asking my Dr for a non addictive drug for my back pain - 5 years ago!!!!

Keep fighting all - focus on the future, remember how you used to feel before tram.  It is so easy to remember the first while on tram - the good feelings, the energy - but it isn't worth it - look at these posts - what we all have lost!  I've got to ignore instant gratification and focus on where I want to be 6 months, a year from now.
Sleep well


Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 07, 2009
Nine weeks is wonderful..A whole world is ahead of you and with your spirit and attitude I think you will make the best of it.Thanks for sharing in your healing and helping everyone in this group.Initially when we first signed on we were looking for help for ourselves,but as we posted and got to know each other we are helping others as well as ourselves.

Avatar universal
by hanginin, Nov 07, 2009
Good night Warriors. Notsosunny. Tomorrow is day 17 for us and I think we are now over the hump. Captmike. The Klonopin will help with the withdrawal symptoms but is a benzodiazepine and is addictive but is probably easier to overcome than the tramadol. I honestly don't know of a drug besides crystal meth that is harder to come off of than tramadol because of the antidepressant component of tramadol.  That being said its also the most rewarding drug to come off of because of the Tram fog that people have written about on this forum.  Please keep fighting.  I couldn't have done it without your help and at 2 weeks plus I don't want Tramadol anymore. I still have some issues but they become easier to deal with every day.  I look forward to this week and I hope all my tram friends stay strong with me as we face our third week.
Stay gold
hanginin

Avatar universal
by notsosunny, Nov 07, 2009
I know Hangin..17 DAYS! I can't wait until we are here saying NINE WEEKS like ~fmn!!! I am having a pretty rough night. AGAIN! I am just crazy with emotional overload. I am going to try to go to sleep so I can get up early and take my little one to breakfast before I am away from her for 3 days. I am overcome with guilt tonight at how snappy and easily irritated I have been to everyone in my family. I just don't feel like being bothered with anyone or anything and I just can't stop crying. I know I have hurt my little one's feelings and she doesn't even realize what I am going through. Bless her heart. All I can do is try my best to make it up to her in the few short hours I have to spend with her tomorrow. I just can't seem to snap out of this tonight so I shall go to sleep. Maybe in the morning I can pull myself together a little more. My husband is at work and the kids are asleep and the last person I feel like spending time with is ME! Back to the guilt and shame...what a cycle! :(

Avatar universal
by DrStop, Nov 07, 2009
Hi. This is my first post.
Grandma used to take percocet, and I robbed her a couple. They were wonderful. Everything made sense. I had strength, happiness. Opium, yes.
Grandma died, so I figured a way of getting what I thought was the next best thing and eventually bought trams on the Internet. Huge mistake.
I actually stopped using them last year, after having used them for about a year. I never had more than 150mgs a day, and mostly had 50-100. My eyesight was sore, I was moody, and I just hated to feel the craving and the urge to satisfy this stupid low addiction. So I tampered and went cold turkey after reducing the doses to 50 mgs. Two days of hell, and about a week of mild suffering.
But I bought more trams on the Internet, a couple of months later, for no reason whatsoever.
I have a full 90 pill box, and I know I have to throw it away, but I can't go all crazy with work and family around. There's no way I'm telling my family. They rely on me. I've given them so much support and advice and counseling while passing a tramadol high, it's ironic as the Mr. Beelzebub.
You are all lovely, and I beg of you, pleeeeeeease, after narrating the voyage to hell, share some good news with us, so that we can get the courage to quit this damn pill. PLEASE share some good news and anecdotes!!!!!!!
Love.
AC

PS I posted this on the other thread before reading some of the uplifting posts in this one.

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by forget_me_not, Nov 07, 2009
AC,

Welcome to the Recovery Room!  As you read through the posts here, you'll find a good deal of the Inferno Narrative, but also you'll see quite a bit of the healing side, too.  I hope you will peruse the many posts as I think you'll agree there is a LOT of really good news in there.  :)

I hope you find, as I did, something here that triggers the courage in you to dump the drug.  Life improves in incredible ways once you get through the initial withdrawal (which, for your dose, might not be quite as bad as the voyage to hell you've read about here since many of us were at much higher amounts).

Let us help in any way we can.  We welcome you.

blessings,
~fmn

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by captmike79, Nov 07, 2009
Well I'm still awake.  God I just want to sleep for a night!  I want to be normal again!!    Evil little pill, damn you.  I am fighting hard still, but as the sleep stay away the fight gets harder.  Anyone trying sleep aids while WD?  I have Lunesta but wonder if I should take it.

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by madtram, Nov 08, 2009
Captmike, Lunesta was the only thing that worked for me in that I could fall asleep & wake the next day feeling ok.  BUT, (never start a sentence with a but but this is a big one, & not in a good JLo kind of way).

Lunesta, (eszopiclone),  is effectively a benzo & acts on the same gaba receptors as valium, klonopin, Xanax etc.  By comparison, Ambien, (zolpidem) acts on fewer benzo receptors.  I wasn't aware of this when I took Lunesta & it seemed to be working so well I just kept taking it for months.  When I realised that the tram insomnia should be long gone & quit the Lunesta, I had withdrawal symptoms that were as bad, if not worse than the tramadol withdrawal.  I only ever took 1 tablet a night but obviously took them long enough to create physical tolerance.

The other complication is that benzos & tramadol are additive, that is that withdrawal from one may throw you into withdrawal with the other even though you have not lowered your dose.  This may not be the case once tramadol has truly cleared your system but something for those who are tapering to keep in mind.

So Mike, I doubt very  much that taking Lunesta for one week will hurt you at all & may well help you with the sleep you desperately need.  Just don't let that stretch out to a month then two, then three.

Best to all.

Avatar universal
by inspiring, Nov 08, 2009
some kind soul mentioned earlier that we should be looking for positive ways to help during AND after the initial withdraw symptoms. We need to learn how to function in the tram free world again. Today I had energy only for a couple hours but i pushed myself to do just one more chore when I DID have some energy. I seem to need to eat a lot more than when I was on the trams - I have always bordered on hypoglycemia and when I need to eat BOY does my body tell me. I feel nauseous, faint, ready to fall down then I eat something and feel OK and have a little energy. I have all kinds of healthy snacks, ie nuts, dried blueberries, toast etc to fill in around meals, this is helping me feel better. Please list YOUR OWN methods for feeling better to help us all

Avatar universal
by notsosunny, Nov 08, 2009
Good Morning Everyone. I think about it after each and every time I post that I am making it seem so scary and hopeless to go through this. That is not my intentions guys..Obviously, I am coping or I wouldn't be sitting here 17 days tram free. I certainly have really low moments, but I make it through each of them as we all do. When I am on the other side of a meltdown and I am feeling better I know that it is all worth it. I know the bad times aren't going to last and that the good times of experiencing life are ahead of me and ahead of ALL OF US. For all of you guys tapering or just jumping off the ship please realize that I am having an extra dose of stress right now. My daughter received 3rd degree burns on a 4 wheeler and has already had 1 surgery last Monday and possibly another tomorrow or next week. I also suffered a urinary tract infection early into my battle and that threw me for a loop as well. I think I would be stressed even if I had the trams. Just a stressful time. I am happy to say that this morning I feel pretty good. Went to sleep with no problem, almost slept through the night(with no Valerian root) and woke up at 6AM. Have 3 loads of laundry done, bags packed for the trip to the burn unit and about to get my little one up to take her to breakfast. Early on before all the monkey wrenches were thrown my way I was dealing fairly well. I was walking, watching movies, reading and working out alot. Those things helped me cope and manage. I was taking my vitamin supplements religiously and drinking lots of gator-aid and flavored waters to stay hydrated. I kinda stopped doing all that like I should and I think it really hurt me. This morning I started everything again and just put it in my mind that I HAVE TO DO THESE THINGS! Well, before I start rambling too much I have to get off of here. I have a really busy day and lots to do still. I will read & post when I can while we are at the hospital. Keep us in your thoughts as I will you guys.

Peace and healing..

~FeelingALittleSunnier

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 08, 2009
Good morning everyone..Just a quick hello and keep fighting.Another day has passed and is under your belt and adds to the total of clean days.I am off to work now and will check with everyone when I get back.Oops..I forgot...It's Sunday and I don't start till 10am.Good for you inspiring..you persisted and forced yourself to do a little more and you did do it.That is what this battle is....forcing yourself to always do a little more or try a little harder or hold on a little longer.That is the hard part,because it is always easier to give in,but to hold on is much more difficult.Any trick that we can use to help us keep our resolve (as long as its legal) is good.Music,dancing,exercise,work anything that distracts us from that addiction helps us.You have to want the clean life badly enough to suffer the withdrawal and succeed.The clean life is worth it because your loved ones will appreciate you ,more and you will love yourself more.A win win situation.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 08, 2009
Good for you notsosunny..You got thru another night and are still hanging in.You are doing extremely well and do not hesitate to post when you are feeling bad at all.That is why we are here to listen to the bad as well as the good.People who post are wondering if everyone else feels as bad as they do and when they see that others do as well,they realize that they are not alone and there is hope for everyone.Welcome drstop,I posted on the other thread but also feel more comfortable here.

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by captmike79, Nov 08, 2009
Well I got a not so solid 6 hours of sleep.  Went down around 3am and up around 9am.  I think I feel a little better today, who knows though?  It can just come on in waves.  I would like some more info about using Klonopin during my withdraws.  Should I stop it? it seems to help.  I have to use pain medication of some sort for my knee.  Like I said earlier I will have surgery in about 2 weeks, but until then I need to take some Percs so i can at least not have the pain of tramadol and the pain of my knee together.  I am awake wide awake now.  It is another day, and I am alive!  I am alive!  

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 08, 2009
Mike- I take Klonopin at night normally and  I bumped up the dose a little and I've slept fine.  I'm only on day 5.  Then the psychiatrist gave me clonidine as well and it's really helped me sleep soundly.  It lowers BP and really helps with the anxiety.   I only take these at night.  I also take Valarian capsules...not sure if that's doing anything.

To the person that wanted to hear something positive.  I feel pretty great.  Honestly, my withdrawal just wasn't that bad.  I tapered to 150 and then stopped, but I did a fast taper.  I took this drug for three years.  I think the klonopin at night has helped.  Not getting enough sleep can really magnify things. I think my anxiety during the taper and the first day of worrying has been the worst part.

I've withdrawn from celexa before and that was terrible and I have a thyroid problem, so I used to be fatigued a lot.  So, it could be that I'm used to some of these symptoms.  It definitely varies from person to person, but it does seem to get better.

I'm going to have to find something longer term to support my recovery and to prevent me from using somehow, but it will be okay.

FMN, big congrats to you and to the others celebrating time today.  YAY!

Jenny

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by booba77, Nov 08, 2009
Day 10 for me.  I have a cold and feel like ****.  how are you guys?  when will my enervgy come back?  have i just never had energy? glad to see some newbies posting.  good luck~if i can do this anyone can.  i will admit the mental is getting to me, but i think it is because i have a cold and no energy.  wish i had more positive to say. Janis Ian concert rocked.  got to meet her too. keep the faith guys, and anyone with any energy tips beside the B12 please holla back.  love you guys........keep fighting warriors.......

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by forget_me_not, Nov 08, 2009
Good Afternoon, Warriors!

The energy challenge during WD (especially early on) is extremely tough.  Pharma and others here have much more knowledge regarding treatments for this than I do.  It seems that it's one of the aspects of Healing that has to be "toughed out" more than anything.  Know that energy is actually one of the first things to begin to return for a lot of us.  My experience was that, between days 10 and 20, there were quite a few short periods of time when I felt way better.  Gradually, my energy level returned more steadily, and by weeks three and four, I felt considerably better.  This is MY experience only, and of course we are all different.  But you can be sure that it will come back.

At nine weeks out I feel very good most of the time.  If it never got better than this, I would GLADLY accept it!  But I read from others who are much further out that it does get better than this.  I still have episodes of really powerful fatigue and leg pain but they are transient, usually only lasting for a couple of hours.  I embrace those little apparitions as fond reminders of what a monumentally different future I have now as opposed to a few months ago.  We have SO much to celebrate, each and every one of us.

My hope is that, no matter how rotten you feel, or feel you might sound, you'll all keep posting here, sharing your experience, asking for help when you need it.  So few of us can do this without support.  Don't question whether you should share your hard times.  Just be yourself.  Share your truths.  We are all in this together.

There is WAY more good than bad.  Keep fighting!

peace,
~fmn

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by me1414, Nov 08, 2009
Good afternoon gang,
         It has been 7 days since I started tapering and this is day 2 tram free. The pain is certainly different than when I was tapering. Now I just have this constant ache in my entire body. Friends say I look like hell. I did have a pretty good day after my mental breakdown yesterday. And today I have done more today, it seems to me, than I have all week. I have been up and moving for about 5 hours. This is the first time I have really sat down. For those that are asking about what helps, I can tell you what has worked for me. I take 3 epsom salts baths or just hot showers a day if I can. Then I eat everytime my body tell me. I bought otc arthritis medicine and take it a couple of times a day. I also sit with my heating pad on my back every so often. I am concentrating hard on taking 1 moment at a time. Trying not to think ahead. If I get a few chores done I am happy. I am also writing in my journal alot. I just write random thots and things that I have been dreaming. I am surprized by what thots surface when the mental haze is lifted. I know we can beat this togeather.  

Avatar universal
by DrStop, Nov 08, 2009
Thanks, forgetmenot. Yes, indeed, there are reassuring stories here as well, specially in this thread.
Thanks you all.


Avatar universal
by inspiring, Nov 08, 2009
good Sunday fellow warriors, I awoke this morning feeling more positive than I have done the last few days.  One of my first thoughts was how is everyone on the tram ride doing today.  Is Booba feeling better, sending prayers to Notsosunny to get thru her day traveling with her daughter, thanking forgetnot for her always wise words, thanking Pharma9 for holding us altogether and wondering if tramman999 is getting better weather to help his spirit.  THIS forum is amazing with such support and advice.

notosunny, don’t ever think you are scaring people by telling the truth about the dark moments.  It is this truth that makes it all real for readers who need to know they are NOT alone

JG525 – Its not that I just want to read something positive here, the good and bad are ALL good, just looking for things that make one feel better.  Last night I was on youtube watching all my old favorite rock bands – it passed the time wonderfully – music is very healing


Avatar universal
by inspiring, Nov 08, 2009
I also wanted to say how MUCH I appreciate this forum, I live quite a solitary life, (split with my BF of 7 years and trying to pick up the pieces of my life) - I do have 2 great GF to confide in but THIS place has people who have been thru the experience of addiction, the suffering of with drawals, and it is HERE I found the strength and encouragement to quit the trams.  THANK YOU ALL

Avatar universal
by DrStop, Nov 08, 2009
And, by the way, I had a huge withdrawal after, yes, just taking up to 150 mgs for a year and a half or so. I trembled, shivered, had sudden revelations about the meaning of life, considered screaming in public places, the works. I say this in order to express my admiration for you guys, who've been having bigger doses.
I can't believe I fell again in this trap!
I also wanted to ask you if you think it's fair not only to help one another here, but to get active in the anti-pharmaceutical fight. I don't mean running for Congress, or anything. But there must be something, whether small or big in scale, that we can do in order to warn people about this drug (and maybe others). I am open to suggestions.
Once again, thank you for your caring and counseling.

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 08, 2009
Booba- I have chronic energy issues too whether it is this or other stuff.  Was just thinking about that.  I was feeling blah and having a hard time getting motivated to clean, which is a bit different than fatigue of course.  I'm glad you enjoyed Janis Ian! Have you had your thyroid checked?  It took years for me to get an accurate test for mine and it turns out I have Hashimoto's, which means you fluctuate between hypo and hyper and than become hypo.  I'm now being treated for that and it really helps.  The tramadol was sucking what little energy I had though and confusing that.  It probably also caused my adrenal fatigue because of the whole fight or flight thing.

Me1414- Do you use 800mg ibuprofen?  I find it helps me a lot if I remember to take it regularly.  Also, not sure where the pain is, but I have some topical pain killer from the doctor that I use for my wrist and I think it helps.  It would be hard to use for back though.

Inspiring- I've found music helpful too.  I'm lucky to be able to share with my husband and mom, but they don't really know what it's like.

Off to clean...know I will feel better afterwards :(

Jenny

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by booba77, Nov 08, 2009
i love you guys.  Inspiring, thanks  for thinking of me.  i think my probs have more to do with this  damned cold rather than tram WD.  this place is my sole (and soul) support in this.  I do feel a little better now, but ate like a hostage and am now so tired.  gonna take a nap with my baby.  Go Bengals!!!!  guess i will owe my hunny a rubdown tonight for doubting his team.  hope hillbilly gets back safe.  

Avatar universal
by inspiring, Nov 08, 2009
DrStop,  I HEAR you - about getting this evil medication information OUT THERE - I plan to copy and paste then print out a few of these comments from the tram warriors and give copies to the local Dr offices here  ALSO my main point in giving out copies -  is to give it to my friend  - the one who gave me the tramadols in the first place - she told me 'OH my dr says I can take 3 o 4 (50gr) a day and no worries about addiction - I KNOW she takes several a day and also drinks alcohol a lot  - I have been mad at her for giving me the pills and mad at myself for getting hooked - tho I know the truth is  - I REALLY didn't know!!!  I will be hoping the information on the forum will be good for her

Avatar universal
by inspiring, Nov 08, 2009
When I first signed on as "inspiring" I had hoped to help - I didn't realize I was the one that NEEDED help as I was still in my sunny fog taking trams, not yet into WD

So to live up to my log on name, I offer (below) a truthism...I often am taken with pearls of wisdom that suddenly give to me some insight in the big picture..The following is from the wonderful movie 'The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" I quote...


Its never too late to be who you want to be – there’s no time limit – start whenever you want – you can change – or stay the same – there are no rules to this thing – we can make the best or the worst of it

Avatar universal
by Lori_MN, Nov 08, 2009
Hello all,

Time for me to get out of the shadows as I've been lurking for over a month now.  Did you feel like someone was watching?  ha!   I finally had to speak up as I'm so impressed on how supportive, nonjudgmental and friendly everyone is.  This is a no frills board and that's just how I like it.  My story is the same old thing as the rest of you, except I really got into the tram trap for recreational use.  Shame on me, I know better.  My husband, who has real knee injury pain issues was prescribed Tramadol because they were SO afraid of giving him Vicodin or Percs.  We would have been better off with those I think.  I have low back pain and tailbone issues so I took a few trams too.  I got sick the first time I took them...should have taken that as a sign.. Goofball that I am!  Anyway, on to the entertainment....we love to spend Sunday mornings with the newspaper, some chill music, a donut from the bakery and a couple "vickies" in bed.  Our once a week bed party.  Well we don't have a supply of Vicodin..but an endless supply of Trams thanks to the internet.  Now it's not a once a week Sunday bed party, it's every day for who knows how long.  We are both tapering down and I'm going to jump cold turkey for good.  No more for me.  My husband doesn't have as much of an issue with being a pig for them as me.  He also has a more legit reason to take them...however he can go without and survive.   When I got up to 8-9 50mg per day - I freaked out with an anxiety attack in the middle of the night, had nearly daily migraines, blurry vision and a foggy tram head.  Plus the nightsweats from hell.  I tapered to 5 for a couple weeks, then 4, then 3, now tomorrow I'm doing 2 for a week and then it will soon be time to jump.

I've been reading how some folks think the taper is worse than the cold turkey...so I'm considering that - but my husband tells me to continue the ssssllllllooooowwwwww taper.  Not sure which way to go.  I don't want to be in the thralls of withdrawal during Thanksgiving when I have the in-laws here.

One question for anyone...am I the only one sweating to death at night?  I know part of my problem is pre-menopause as I'm 46, but I just went back on the Pill to settle my hormones and the migraines down.  The Pill has helped the migraines (plus the fact I'm taking less of the "devil")  but I'm still sweating so bad I sleep on a bath towel.  No RLS for me (yet), but nightsweats?  Holy hanna this bites.  I am thankful though that the migraines have slowed down.  I'd rather sweat than deal with those bastards every day.

Enough rambling for now.  Hang in there everyone.  Soon, we all will be well.

-Lori

Avatar universal
by notsosunny, Nov 08, 2009
We made it  and are here settled in the hotel...then the hospital first thing in the morning. The trip wasn't bad at all. Me and my daughter talked and sang the whole way. It was actually very nice. I had forgotten how long it had been since just her and I had spent any lengthy alone time together without the other kids. We really needed it. 15 is a rough age and she is going through some stuff so we desperately needed this time alone. I am a firm believer that everything happens for a reason. I wish she had never gotten burned on the 4 wheeler, but she is in ZERO pain, the burns are small and we are having much needed mother/daughter time. We are in a nice hotel and went and bought groceries when we got into town. There is a full kitchen so we are going to "rough it" tonight in our suite and cook ourselves dinner. LOL...I have been eating way way too much the past 2 weeks and already had McD's on the way here. UGH!!!! I NEVER ate on the trams and I shut my metabolism down completely by doing that.
I have had a really decent day. Now, given..I haven't slowed down to even think about things or think about how I am feeling so now that I am kicked back relaxing I can only hope I remain calm & chilled out. I think I will. I feel like I will anyway. My pain level is probably the lowest it has been in ages. I literally mean it when I say that I am probably a 2-3 on the pain scale. Totally manageable with OTC meds and maybe even nothing. We'll see!?!?! Brought all my supplements, tylenol and aleve so I think I prepared better for this trip that last weekend when the accident happened.
Guys, I am thinking I may see a light at the end of the tunnel. I know it is in the far distance, but I think I see it. :)
Gonna lay back and relax before I fix us some dinner. I will come back and read everyone's posts later and maybe post again but I just wanted to take the time to tell you all HI, say that we are here and tell you all that I am feeling alright.

Love & Hugs to You ALL!!!!!

Avatar universal
by inspiring, Nov 08, 2009
to notsosunny  you MAY just have to change your log in name, you are dealing with so much yet you are managing and even enjoying - that tunnel light will get blinding with JOY

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by forget_me_not, Nov 08, 2009
Lori, Welcome to our Warriors Club!  We are very happy to have you.

Awesome you can be so truthful and candid about your reasons for taking tramadol.  No shame.  We all took them to feel better at some point, either from physical pain or because they did such a sparkling job of filling those vague empty places that hurt.  We all knew better, didn't we!

Yet here we are.  And we are where we need to be.  Make yourself at home here and please feel free to share with us your process of getting ready, getting clean, and getting well.  We will support you in every way we can through everything that comes your way.

If we can help, let us.  Again, welcome.

~fmn

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 08, 2009
Lori- Welcome to the group.  As Fmn stated, most of us took them to feel better.  I stopped taking them for pain a long time ago, although I still have some pain.  Ibuprofen works fine.  I tapered to 150 and it helped.  I just couldn't deal with a taper beyond that.  I do think it helps though.  I'm on day 5 and doing well.  Since tramadol has an SNRI quality to it, I would equate it with that.  Going CT off an SNRI or SSRI is pure hell, so I wouldn't recommend it with tramadol.  It sounds like you're already down to 100mg though, so you should be fine.

I used to get sweats with the tramadol and also when I was tapering.  You might feel better after you jump.   I don't have sweats and only got the RLS stuff one night.  My klonopin pushed me through that and the addition of clonidine has also really helped with sleep.  If a doctor can give you clonidine, I'd recommend it, assuming you don't have other meds or BP issues that conflict.  

I'm grateful that my husband doesn't take anything because it just makes life that much simpler.  You'll just have to work extra hard.  Maybe he could hide them for you?  Maybe you don't need that, but it would be hard for me.

It's all so worth it though! Hang in there.

Jenny

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by booba77, Nov 08, 2009
my hubby wont even take a tylenol!  i guess i have popped enough pills in my day for both of us.  I took a tiny piece of klonopin to sleep last night but they make my feel very groggy so no more for me.  i feel much better than earlier after having a coca cola, believe it or not.   nyone starting out, i am on day 10 of going cold turkey off of 1000 mg day of trams.  it can be done.  it is pure hell, but we are here for you.  without these fine warriors, i could not have done it.  and dont think u will be rid of me yet, cuz i need this support now more than ever in order to fight the fatigue, temptations, insecurities, etc......i love you all.  i feel good sober, and i never thought i  would.  now to kick this cold will be my next battle........goodnight all.......keep fighting warriors....we shall overcome this demon.  sweet dreams.

Avatar universal
by hanginin, Nov 08, 2009
Hello everyone. Another day in the books. I have got a terrible cold and haven't felt very good today but its better than being fogged out on the Trams. Notsosunny. I am glad you can see the light and we are heading into day 18 tomorrow. Everyone keep fighting and we will win this battle.
Good night
Hanginin

Avatar universal
by newway, Nov 08, 2009
Notsosunny - I know not the way you would want mother, daughter time - but just think - tramed out you would not have been able to connect or enjoy at all.  Just the energy alone would have been difficult to come by!

I droped another 50mg today - so far I have not noticed anything - but usually by Monday afternoon I will start to feel the withdrawal.  I still find it manageable and am able to function - the one thing that seems a bit different for me than some of you, is that while I tapper - I get the stomach problems, mild headach, anxiety, RLS - but - my energy is going up.  I no longer feel like I have Chronic fatigue -- there were times while on tram I could barely get out of bed, and many times I just didn`t want to.
Now I actually have a bit of energy and motivation.  Don`t get me wrong - I still get exhausted easily, and don`t have the energy I hope to have - but I am not complaining for now.
Here`s my hope for a good sleep for you all.

Avatar universal
by srvblooze, Nov 08, 2009
It's day 28 off Tramadol for me and last night, for the first time, I managed a solid sleep without having taken any kind of pharmaceuticals (not even melatonin) to get it. I know there are still going to be rough nights where I toss and turn and whatever, but the restless legs and the brain zap when trying to sleep are gone now. I feel human again. And, while there will almost certainly be some more difficult, insomnia-fueled nights ahead, I know it's not going to last forever.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank everyone for sharing their stories. Coming to this site has definitely taken away that "I'm all alone" feeling.

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by forget_me_not, Nov 08, 2009
Dear Warriors,

How amazing all of you are!  SRVblooze, I love your name.  Notsosunny, you are so inspiring to all of us with your resolve.  You might not feel it, but you give us steadfastness and drive to stay focused on the goal.  Hanginin, your hard days are numbered!  It's getting better all the time.  I hope you can feel that.  Booba, your persistence in the WD process, even with another physical illness, will help make you even stronger in the long run.  I actually was reminded of Emily's early posts, in which she got sick right out of the gate - with bronchitis, I believe - and had to deal with that on top of the tramadol WD.  I was lucky to have made it through the first few weeks without any additional obstacles like you guys have had.

Newcomers and veterans, you are all such troopers.  This is such a hard war, and each battle won is bringing all of us closer to victory.  The thought of all of us at our different stations up the side of this stormy mountain is so sobering, so moving.  I look forward to the day when we all celebrate together at the top knowing we will never have to fight this war again.

Whatever you are going through tonight, Keep Going.  Tomorrow is a new day, and we'll get through it together.

Fight on, Warriors!

blessings,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by gingerchai, Nov 08, 2009
Dear srvblooze,
It is day 29 for me,  I had a rough beginning, seemed to feel great for a while, now I seem to have turned into an anxious mess!  This site is great and I hope to share more in the future when I can concentrate.

Avatar universal
by Lori_MN, Nov 09, 2009
Good morning,

Well today it's time to go to 2 - 50mg.  It's the lowest I've been in months.  I know I'll make it, I'm just a bit nervous to go 12 hours on one.  That's my plan - 1 every 12 hours.  Not sure that is the best way.  Never tried to get off drugs before!   My husband and I used to joke about having to go to Hazelton Rehab (which is here)...not funny now is it?

Slept pretty crappy last night as usual - just a light sleep it seemed, don't know how long it's been since I've slept hard all night without sweating or prowling to go to the bathroom.  I got some trazadone from my Dr for sleeping.  I switch off using that or benedryl or melatonin.  I never needed sleep aids before this tram trip from hell.  I got the traz from my Dr to try and sleep through the night sweats - this was before I figured out that Tram was also depriving me of a decent night's rest.  That was one thing I learned here...how everyone seems to be sleep deprived from this "safe, non-addicting pain reliever".  ha.  

I'll check in later to how everyone is doing.  Have a good day all...

-Lori

Avatar universal
by Lori_MN, Nov 09, 2009
By the way - thanks everyone for the warm welcome.  I meant to say that above.  Thanks for accepting a recreational idiot.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 09, 2009
Good luck Lori with your taper and try to hold steady.One less tablet a week is still progress,and if it has to be that slow it is still progress.I'm off to work now and will check in when I get back.Good healing to everyone.

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by GreatWhite, Nov 09, 2009
Wow havent posted in here in a while. But I have been pretty much keeping up with everyone. Today is one week!!!! And i have not taken one Tram. In fact, I flushed them all, then last night i found like 12 more hiding out in my secret place that I stashed just in case and then flushed those, all th while laughing at the devil being flushed down the toilet. Days 1-3 werent that bad, at least as bad as I would of thought. Then days 4-6 were pretty rough. Not sleeping, the runs like crazy, and horrible horrible RBS. I really could deal with everything except RBS. I hate that especially at night. But even during the day it is a pain in my ***, because my body is sooooooooo tired and exhausted from not sleeping and the RBS is just constantly keeping mymind running. Its a constant battle. But yesterday, day 6, besides the runs, i felt fine and I slept about 6 hours last night, so i am energized and at work already. Today I dont feel like i have the RBS which is fantastic and I actually woke up smiling and glad to wake up. Slowly but surely, the old me is coming back. On Wed i meet with my new Therapist, who is an addiction specialist, so hopefully that will help me even more in the fight of my life to put these pills behind me once and for all. This weekend I thought about taking pills about every 2 seconds but all the other days i havent wanted to take any at all because I dont want to go through any of these hellish days again. Ohhh iff only the pooping would stop!! That seems to be the last of the withdrawals besides sleeping normally. Love you all and keep fighting and remember You can Do All Things Through God Who Strengthens YOU!!!

--Welcome newbies, eventhough you have been fighting this evil drug, you can do it! I tapered for a week, experience withdrawals but not as bad as cold turkey, and when I jumped i was taking 2 a day, so 100mg. So it is  possible, and i am convinced it did lessen the severe withdrawals but i also was only taking 150mg-200mg a day at most. So some people, like booba, who was taking 1000mg a day and jumnped, went through hellish days that i couldnt imagine, and with a kid. But every day is better, and if you have a bad day, dont give in, The monster will loosen its grip and you will be FREEE!!!

Peace and love,
Chris

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 09, 2009
Chris- I am glad you said you've had a harder time after day 4 than before (not glad for you!).  I've noticed the same thing.  I actually had the RBS and upset stomach yesterday, which was day 5.  Prior to that, not a lot of problems.  All in all I'm doing well though.

It's interesting how a lot of people get sick.  This happens when people quit smoking too.  I think our bodies are clearing out or something or maybe our immune system is weaker.  I'm not a doctor, but I've noticed this throughout recovery groups that I do.  For me, I think my body has had some serious adrenaline exhaustion from the craving, the getting of pills, the going without.  It's just a constant state of stress.  Anyway, not sick yet, thank goodness. No sick time left until Jan.

Lori- That's funny you mention Hazelden.  I thought of it when I saw Minneapolis (a beautiful city btw!).  I had an ex and also a family member that went there.  Great program, but lets hope none of us has to end up there.

Srvblooze- Congrats on 28 days!

Newway- I think I had more energy during taper, despite not feeling well.  I also had much more anxiety.  You mention feeling like CFS and it made me wonder how many people who have CFS are on tramadol.  Especially since CFS often goes with Fibro.  I wonder how many people start out great getting treated for those things and then end up getting worse from the tramadol.

I managed to get some cleaning done yesterday, which was awesome! I just have to motivate and then of course I feel better.  Otherwise, I get bogged down with guilt.  We also watched a Frontline on PBS about the overmedication of children now and how many kids are being diagnosed with bipolar by their pediatricians and put on some pretty heavy duty drugs.  It made me cry.  I know there are kids that need help, but I really doubt there are so many.  As someone who feels overmedicated, it worries me that these kids end up on heavy duty drugs...some at age 4...before their brains can develop.  Anyway, sorry, not trying to pick on anyone if they have kids in that situation.  It's an individual situation.  Just wish there could be more trials on it.

Have a great day everyone!

jenny

Avatar universal
by Hillbilly47, Nov 09, 2009
Morning, all!  Hillbilly made it back to the mountains in more or less one piece (thanks for thinkin' of me, booba).  

Managed another whole weekend clean, but brought back a story for the "weird recovery" files:  Saturday morning, I was in camp stretching after rolling out of the sleeping bag.  The girlfriend of one of my bandmates says, "if your back is hurting, I have some lortab."  -- temptation arrives in strange places -- I quickly (maybe too quickly) said no thanks and went for a run instead.  Then, Saturday night and last night I dreamed of pills.  Not necessarily taking pills, but just about them.  Oddness indeed.

Welcome newcomers.  Lori: cold turkey vs taper is an individual decision.  I tried to taper, but when I realized I was still withdrawing, I got frustrated and just jumped.  I flushed over 100 trams and, somehow, that gave me some closure I suppose I needed.  I'm not gonna say it was easy, but it was certainly do-able.  Just look through the back issues of this forum and you'll find stories of doing this just about every way it can be done.  The key is to find YOUR way and then just do it.

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by captmike79, Nov 09, 2009
Hello all.   Day 5!  I feel pretty well.  Yesterday I rode bike for a long time.  Exercise Helped me allot.  Vitamins as well.  I slept all most 9 hours last night!   I am getting allot of omega 3 as well, it is a natural seratonin booster.  Eat a can of tuna if you have it around or get the pills.  I am amazed at how well I feel this AM.  I am literally fighting the WD's and the tramadol out of my body.  I still take the HOT showers they help.  Considering 3 days ago I was in the deepest corner of hell, today is great!  Just some things that seem to help me allot because I seem to have gotten through the worst of this faster than most.  Exercise as much as possible, get that blood pumping to the brain!  This board has SO much info!  it took about 10 hours it seems to read both boards.  Another natural seratonin boost is Kava.  it is usually at the vitamin store in liquid form.  

Well I am off for a bike ride.  I cant jog or walk long because of impact on my knee, but riding bike dose't bother it, I guess no impact?  

Everyone,  Fight the good fight.  You are all good people for getting off this devil pill.  I almost feel jealous that my Cold Turkey went so fast.  Under a week and I feel 75% normal!

GEt mad at your WD's!  Fight them!  I litterally yell at them when i get them bad and try to force them out of me!

WE ARE ALIVE!! everyday will be better than the next!  FIGHT on MY good people, Fight on!

Quick question.  So me things seem hard for me to do.  For example typing and spelling.  I used to be an excellent writer, now I feel like I just ramble.  I also have some trouble typing.  I had to take a few seconds to find the question mark.  ????????????? found it now.    

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by me1414, Nov 09, 2009
goodmorning gang!  Its day 3 for me and so far so good. I got a killer stomach ache but I still managed to get the kids off to school and get a few chores done. Hurray!

Lori- I did a slow taper as well. I found that I felt good for a few hours after each dose and then I was in pain for a while. No matter what dose I was on it was the same pattern. The worst of the pain was in the first week of taper for me. It is day 3 totally free and it seems to be a more managable pain now. As everyone else says its about the same pain either way. I think the taper thing helped me because it was a mental thing for me. You can do it tho. Just take one minute at a time.

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by GreatWhite, Nov 09, 2009
cpt mike- awesome on your progress. But dont talk too soon. From reading everyone's posts, lots of people have more wd's that kick in after 4 or 5 days, even into days 12 and 13 for some. Not trying to get your hopes up, just be prepared for that. anyways good luck in all that you do, seems like your spirits are up and thats the most important thing. I feel good this morning, still pooping alot but that I can deal with. My RBS is non-existent today which is aw3esome, def gonna try and get some work done at work today. Hopefully i can start to focus my attention on the kids i teach and not just on when i need to pop some pills. Couldnt have done it without you guys!

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 09, 2009
YAY Hillbilly- Good for you turning those pills down.  It's amazing how many people have them.  She's probably not an addict herself or she wouldn't give them away :).  I surely wouldn't have.  That's impressive to turn them down though.  I like to think that right now I would do the same...I think so.  We definitely feel weaker at some times than others.  Sounds like you had a rejuvenating trip though.

Jenny

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by forget_me_not, Nov 09, 2009
Warriors,

So much to celebrate today!  LOTS of victories happening in your Journeys to Healing.  Each of you is one day closer to freedom today, and I am pulling for you.

Hillbilly, Welcome back!  We missed you, but we're glad you had a good time.  Did turning down that pill add a new layer to your armor?  It did for me.  I was faced with the same offers in the very early days of WD, from people who love me and just wanted to "help" me feel better.  Boy, if they only knew.  But it simply was NOT an option for me, and it will never, ever be an option for me.  Ever.

Captmike, you may be through the worst of it.  Just hang in there, because there are times when the monster flares and rages and you'll likely feel it for weeks to come.  But it isn't the same.  It's painful and frustrating, but you will be stronger and that strength allows you to experience it and let it pass.  Thank God, it does pass.

Keep it up, Warriors!  You are helping create the wave of healing from this poisonous drug -- not just in your own lives, but in the lives of all those who are finding their way each day to this forum.  Your victories give them hope, just like they gave it to me.

blessings, and Fight On...

~fmn

Avatar universal
by DeeTram, Nov 09, 2009
Hello All Warriors -
Just wanted to share another victory story with you all. As you all know, I am the wife of a Tram Victim.  He gave me the pills Oct. 12. He's been doing a 4 week taper....4 pills a day for a week. Then 3/day for a wk.....2/day-wk. He's been taking 1 a day for the past week. Tommorrow is his last pill.  3 days ago he started showing physical signs of the tapering.... irritability, headache, restlessness, sleeplessness. He doesn't want to talk about the addiction for very long so our conversations about it don't last long. I have been a little anxious knowing that "Jump Day" was coming soon.  Now the good news, today he told me that after I give him the last pill tomorrow he wants me to throw the rest away. That was a HUGE relief for me. It shows me he's truly serious about getting this cr*p out of our lives. I am on Cloud 9 right now.  We talked about what he's going to go through after "the Jump" and he says he's ready. YEAHHHHHH!!  

I've noticed on here that so many of you are saying the same things that my husband has said almost word for word and he hasn't read this forum!  Sometimes I'll just look at him and say "did you finally read that thread I was telling you about?"  He says "no, this is just how I feel."

Lori_MN - My husband took the pills for the "buzz".  The fact that they helped his back feel better & gave him energy was just a plus.  I can really relate to your posts. Thanks.

Newway - Some of the things you've said make me wonder if you are Mr. DeeTram secretly posting on here :)

Counting my Blessings  & praying for everyone on this forum.

Avatar universal
by Hillbilly47, Nov 09, 2009
I think you're right, Jenny - as an addict I wouldn't have offered to share either.  And, she was just trying to be helpful, so I couldn't do anything but try to put some distance between me and the offer.  FMN, you're right - it's another layer in the armor.  I just kept thinking that I couldn't bear to see my ticker go back to zero, so I had to stay the course, so to speak.  

It was quite a rejuvenating weekend and I many times felt blessed to experience it clean.  For all you who are newly clean or who are considering the process, I can't begin to tell you how wonderful it feels to do things for the first time in a long time without the influence of drugs.  So many things are new again!

Avatar universal
by Lori_MN, Nov 09, 2009
Well it's lunch time...time for my next "fix" if it was last week.  I'm waiting until 5-6PM though.  Got a slight headache, might be because I'm hungry.  Thought I was heading for a migraine this morning, but it was a false alarm.  I have one more victory to mention...it's been a week since I've had OTC pain relievers.  I really think dropping my Tram dose and getting on the BC pill has helped my headaches...migraine or otherwise.  I know that OTC pain relievers can cause rebound headaches...and I was dosing up alot on those too - switching between the Imitrex inhalers and OTCs.  Maybe eventually I will really be de-toxed!  Next project after getting out of Tram hell is to cut back on caffeine.  I'm a Diet Coke ***** - but I can't tackle that along with de-tramming and sweating like a junkie all night.  I already have enough headaches.

Raked leaves yesterday morning for a while and it really felt good to get off my dead butt and get some fresh air.  So I will agree with the other folks here on how beneficial exercise can be.

DeeTram - I started Tram for the Sunday morning paper bed party buzz...but got sucked in after that for the energy - help with knocking down my appetite and over all "I can rule the world" feeling.  The "buzz" really isn't that great anymore...it's really non-existant unless I dose up to a stupid amount again....then it's migraine and anxiety hell.  Never again.

Thanks Jenny, Hillbilly and Me for your comments.  I'm going to hang with 2/day for this week and then reassess on how I want to move forward through the taper...or take the leap of faith.  Wish Thanksgiving was next month!  

Great White - ever tried the Immodium?  If you're pooping your head off, it can be pretty draining...pun intended!  :)

I'll check in tonight to let you know if I've grown horns or fangs.  

-Lori

Avatar universal
by Lori_MN, Nov 09, 2009
I see that they edited my use of a word that starts with "W" and ends with "E" and has an H and an O and an R in the middle - which describes my use of Diet Coke.  Didn't think that was a naughty word....but maybe it is!  :)

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 09, 2009
LOL....Lori, they edit tamer words than that.  I had to get used to it.  Makes me feel like I'm a terrible curser.  I wondered what you meant...but now I see.  I am a diet coke fiend too...take that editors! I was in the process of cutting back my caffeine when I realized that that wasn't what was causing my problems! Don't get me wrong, I usually drink caffeine compulsively too, and it's not "good," but you have to pick your battles! I think for some of us, a lifetime of trying to be perfect and live up to others' standards is how we ended up here anyway.

Hillbilly- I don't think I've ever shared a drug in my life! What a concept :).

Jenny

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by me1414, Nov 09, 2009
Hello fellow Diet Coke fiends. Just about to go pick up the boys and wanted to check in. Day three is ok. Wd is a b-word tho. I have no other symtoms except for a stomach ache that wont stop. It has kind of made it difficult to get around. So prayer for courage and strength to get thru the afterschool, evening routine. It takes all I have not to scream some days.

Avatar universal
by Lori_MN, Nov 09, 2009
Hey Me...

Sounds like you have a case of tram tummy.  I'd usually get it at a higher dose than now, but am expecting it again soon when I'm free of the beast.  I call it tram tummy or poopy tummy.  yeehaw.

I'm starting to feel my body gripe about not getting it's noon fix.  Headachey, fidgety....can't stay out of the candy bowl.  I know this will pass and some of it is all in my head - I'm just trying not to hit the Excedrin bottle too!

Time for a fresh Diet Coke.  There's a comfort drink for me...  (tell that to my dental hygenist-yikes!)

-Lori

Avatar universal
by chrissie145, Nov 09, 2009
Dee Tram you're a wonderful lady. Mr Dee Tram is very lucky!  

Its indeed a brave move he is making - but I'm sure he would say he couldnt have done it without you! I remember your posts when you first came on and how you have always been willing to listen and understand. This cant have been easy for either of you. I hope the next leg of the journey goes well and that when this is all over you will both reap the benefits of a battle fought and won together.

Tell him well done, good luck and God bless!
Chrissie

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by booba77, Nov 09, 2009
Hey guys.  Tomorrow is day 11 for me.  I think the cold is finally waning.  I can barely speak which is probably a blessing for most.  Last night I got to sleep woth no melatonin, no valerian, nothing.  it was great.  getting up sucked tho.  oh, and they edit all words, even ones that arent that bad.  just a fyi.  my energy seems to only come in early evening despite all of the sublingual B12 im taking.  cannot wait to say it has been 2 weeks.  i better heat up the car.  work could not be over quick enuff today.  keep fighting warriors.  and you may have loose stools on day 11, just a hint.......love you all.....peace

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 09, 2009
Thanks for the laugh Booba- about it being a blessing you can't talk LOL.  I've been really down today and cannot wait to leave work.  I feel so stuck here.  I have no clue what it is I should be doing rather than this job.  Just stuck.  Have a great night!

Avatar universal
by Hillbilly47, Nov 09, 2009
Hang in there Booba and Jenny (and all you other Warriors).  2 weeks will be here soon, as will 2 months, and 2 years.  My days started adding up quickly, so I'm betting yours will too.  Life only gets better the more distance we put between ourselves and the Monster.  

Y'all have a good evening.  I'm going to go hang out with my best gal at a meeting of her environmentalist buds and soak up the lingering scent of dirty hippies and patchouli in the evening.  Smells like . . . . (well, I got nothing).  Anyway, peace to all y'all.

Avatar universal
by tman4071, Nov 09, 2009
11 days in two hours.....an amazing diffrent person ,,,to all that is battling hang in,,,it does get better and its all worth it,,,promise ,,,,,,sleeping at nights ,,,energy in the morning then very tired afternoon and early evening,,,,,,,ty all again for the help,,,i still think a 98 lbs weekling could kick my butt..... but i will win this fight..._*god put me here for a good time not a long time.....and i will make it a goodtime tramal free.......go warriors it is worth the war,,,,,,,,,,,

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 09, 2009
Back from work and I am absolutely amazed at the positive energy and help in here.This place is glowing with good vibes and everyone has progressed so well.All the desperate cries for help that I heard in the beginning are now shouts of triumph.For the newbies,this is also possible for you and with your own efforts and our help it will come to pass.I also got moderated using the word carp spelled properly.Didn't even know it was a bad word.Lori you are right that too much otc pain meds can cause rebound and too much imitrex can also cause rebound.I keep my RA pain under control with extra str tylenol and ib.uprofen or aleve within the recommended dose range and no rebound.I know the fidgety feeling where you feel you have to have a pill or swallow something.I fought that feeling off and rarely feel it now.If it becomes unbearable get some b12 in smaller doseseg 25 or 50mcg and take it when you feel like you have to take something or even vitamin c 100mg or 250 mg.The total daily dose is not exceeded and you satisfy that urge to "take something"Sometimes we have to use any trick that is legal to help ourselves thru the early rough times.

Avatar universal
by hanginin, Nov 09, 2009
Good afternoon everyone.  I have been sick with flu like symptoms for several days now and it seems like a common problem with the tram warriors.  I want to give everyone some very positive thoughts about this process. I am in day 18 today and I just felt terrible all day. In the past I would have helped myself feel better with Tramadol but thanks to this group I didn't one time think about the demon pill. I just realized that I will have to get thru this by myself.  I am going to start taking my vitamins again and keep exercising even when I don't feel like it.  I'm looking forward to the next few day as I go over 20 days free. I will never take another tramadol again and I owe much of my success to all of the people who are going thru this with me.
Have a good night
Hanginin

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 09, 2009
Aw shucks hanginin....You have sounded a little down the last few days.Never mind you will feel better soon.Maybe the gravity of what you have done is hitting you and casting a few doubts in your mindDon't doubt yourself for you have been hanging in and will be hanging in for ever in the new life you have chosen.Doubts,fears,disappointments are natural emotions we all experience,but must overcome.Keep hanginin for you know that things are already better and will be even better when you feel better.Lots of betters in that sentence...but I mean it.Love and good healing to all.

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by madtram, Nov 09, 2009
Gotta love the computer's idea of bad language.  There was an exchange on one of Emily's earlier thread where someone made the point that in early withdrawal, a bit of "language" is surely one of the least harmful things to be doing.  "Gosh, darn it & heavens to betsie" somehow just don't capture the frustration & rage.  It was concluded that the pope is taking time out to moderate Medhelp.

I second Pharma's comments.  You are all true tramadol warriors.  Booba, I am amazed at the strength that you have displayed.  1,000 mg to zero, not only have you done yourself proud but others who follow will know it can be done.

Jenny, re the CFS, you are telling my story.  While still on tramadol, I caught one of the viruses that has been implicated in CFS & both I & several doctors blamed this for my symptoms which went on for months & months after withdrawal.

Virtually all CFS diagnosed sufferers have an absence of REM sleep which is vital for cell renewal & is probably responsible for many of the CFS symptoms.  It is likely that the originating virus, (or drugs such as tramadol), disrupt the functioning of the hypothalamus, which is responsible for sleep/ wake cycles among other things.

  I also tested positive for no REM sleep cycles & had an appointment to see a CFS specialist when I woke one morning & knew that the CFS had gone.  It was the most radical change in feeling I have ever had, as if a switch had been pulled.  It wasn't like instant energizer bunny, it took a long time for my normal energy levels to return but the extreme swings in blood pressure, the insomnia & the couldn't sit up in bed weakness were gone.

Until then I had been a daily gym junkie so being bed ridden for months had me in a state of marginal sanity.  I would do my CBT exercises, "you have no reason to believe that this is permanent", etc, etc, (which of course turned out to be the truth, yay CBT), but at least half the time, I was in despair.

The randomness, (sound familiar), was the biggest torture.  I would have a day or two of being close to normal, get my hope up then crash, some days it would be an hour or half a day but I was never able to identify anything I did that was making the difference.  It wasn't related to "pushing myself" or the absence or presence of a particular supplement, just pure random scatter.

For this reason, I pretty much blame the tramadol & the lunesta.  The virus may have exacerbated recovery but CFS sufferers typically suffer worse symptoms when they overdo things or exercise whereas my days were a total lottery.

I would be interested to know how many CFS sufferers were on either med when their symptoms started.  We are unlikely to find this out any day soon because CFS & pain meds are such emotionally loaded issues  & CFS in particular is still regarded by many practitioners as primarily psychosomatic.

I'll wind up this rant but I did gain a new compassion for people who suffer from undiagnosable conditions like CFS.  I went down the rabbit hole trying to understand why my subconscious wanted me to be sick when I had just started training for a new career, was getting really good grades & was happier with my life than I had been in a long time.

Reasons to be mad, "Yes we do".

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 09, 2009
Madtram- I was tested for some of that around the time the discovered my thyroid disorder, which is also still regarded as psychosomatic by some and undertreated by many too.  I now pay a holistic dr because at least he runs all the tests.  But yes,  I think many fibro and CFS sufferers are on tramadol, many rightfully so, and I just wonder how this impacts them in the long run.  Sometimes I just don't know about medicine in general...such progress, but there can be so many mistakes too.  There are so many autoimmune illnesses that are so hard to diagnose.    

Sorry, I'm very down today.  Some of this must be the tramadol, but some of it is my job.  The hours are great, but I hate it :(.  The tramadol helped me avoid that.  The issue is that I can't seem to figure out any other feasible job right now.  Then I feel stuck and trapped and that's when I get depressed.  I just wish life was easier for me.  No, sorry, my life IS easy...I wish my brain could see that.  How do you find out more about CBT?  My therapist?  I want to feel grateful for my job and have the sunny disposition that my husband has, but I don't.  Just not sure what I can do.  Not make rash decisions for now I guess.

Hillbilly- You also make me laugh.  Patchouli is one of my least favorite smells, but it reminds me of pot, which makes it more pleasant...I don't smoke pot, but the smell has some fond memories.  Hippies LOL

Jenny



Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 09, 2009
I had to google patchouli...didn't even know what it was.Some kind of mint plant.I was busy studying in university and working part time and did not have time for hippie stuff in th 60's.Hippies never seemed to work and they all seemed in my mind to take the easy courses at university like arts,theatre etc.I was busy studying pharmacy and being a practical person.I guess I am still that wayI think most of the hippies grew up and have made successful lives for themselves and are now yuppies..

Avatar universal
by desperate465, Nov 09, 2009
I find this to be great support site my boyfriend has a pill addiction can you all give me some pointers on talking to him about it every time i try he gets angree....And says he can stop then he gets mad and then depressed and almost has a nerves break down so back to the pain killers he goes i have left but it just gets worse then. Is there some one that can give me some advice ... I was told once i should get advice of some one that is living the addiction....


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by captmike79, Nov 09, 2009
Well Another day down.  I had a great day today.  Cold Turkey off of 1300mg and I am surprised I am doing as well as I am.  I was to the doctor today to have some blood work done, talk about the WD's and HEAL!  I guess I am lucky I have some good doctors around my area and they are all experienced in drug with draw.  The mental health doctor told me she never heard of tramadol or bad WD's from it.  We figured most of the people she sees cannot afford to buy the supply I was taking off the internet.  I was offered 3 day medical detox.  I refused because I thought I was through the worst of it, and I was!  Exercise, exercise, exercise!  I Biked and swam today a lot.  pushed myself hard but it pumped that blood!!  The doctor told me to discontinue the KAVA as well as the Omega 3, because they thin blood, and with knee surgery in two weeks we don't want that!  

If tomorrow I feel better than today, witch I know I will I feel almost there.   I have no craving for tramadol at all.  the thought of taking one makes me ill.  Is that normal?  Do most of you crave tramadol during WD's?  

Well time to get ready for bed.  I am using nyquill to help with the sleep and it does the trick.  Good night all.  Fight on!  WE ARE ALIVE!    

Avatar universal
by Lori_MN, Nov 09, 2009
Well I made it through the day with only 100mg of the T-devil and haven't grown horns or fangs.  Yet.  It's been at least a year since I've been down this low.  Had a funky head this afternoon, the fidgets, a mild poopy tummy...and I'm freezing!!!  I think I read somewhere that chills can happen during withdrawal?  I don't feel sick or fluish otherwise...just cold!  I realize I live in MN, but it was 60 degrees today.  That's "hot" for November in the Minnieapple....

Time to get to bed and that will surely warm me up.  (and not in the hubba, hubba way...can you say night sweats??)

Hope tomorrow is better for everyone.  Hang in there Jenny....as Mike says...WE ARE ALIVE!

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by madtram, Nov 09, 2009
Jenny, sorry you are feeling down, having a job that doesn't suit you is draining.  I have some subjects such as biostatistics that I am supposed to be working on right now but they are mentally taxing & I find them boring so I would much rather be hanging out on Medhelp so I am letting myself have one last post before I get back to chi square analysis.

There are some good free CBT resources online.  Try http://moodgym.anu.edu.au

Pharma, I liked your suggestion about having some probably beneficial, (but definitely harmless), pills available to take.  I have been having a bad run of pain for the last few days & I suspect that some of my non-drug supplements may be placebos but if you can create neural connections between taking something & feeling better it can be just as strong as an active substance, (nothing else explains homeopathy).

Hillbilly, I would be interested to learn more about any environmental revolutions you are involved with.

Now I really have to work & will be less distracted since all of you are tucked up in bed or at least hopefully soaking in an epsom bath.





Avatar universal
by DeeTram, Nov 09, 2009
Oh desperate465 - welcome, welcome. You sound just like me! I could have written your post a year ago. (see my posts above)  My husband told me he didn't have a problem with the Trams. I ( that's  a CAPITAL I )  had the problem & if I didn't like it then DEAL WITH IT. I packed a suit case & walked out...  twice!  He still kept taking them (along with Vicodin, Percocet anything to get a buzz) . I'm not exactly sure why he finally decided to quit but I know there was nothing I was going to say or do to make him quit.  It had to be HIS decision. In my opinion, the reason he quit was I think he started taking more & more to the point where he could no longer ignore the inner battles he was having with HIMSELF.

As the spouse or significant other of an addict, my suggestion is, be supportive (not nagging), and pray.  These are what I did.

Good luck and keep reading. This forum has helped sooooo many people.  It WILL help you too.  It's amazing.

Avatar universal
by DeeTram, Nov 09, 2009
I also went to a few Al Anon meetings. They helped but mostly talked about Alcohol Addiction and no one in my groups had heard about Tramadol.  Sad.  Addicts beware.....  be very aware.

Avatar universal
by newway, Nov 09, 2009
Hi all,

First to desperate - unfortunately, there is nothing you can do - the addict has to make the decision to take their life back.  When I think of how I treated my partner, made her feel like an idiot for questioning me, like she was the one with the problem and was overreacting - I feel terrible.  but I just wasn't ready to face it mysel.  Al anon is a great idea - yes most of it is alcohol related - but just focus on what is being said - the lies, deciet - an addict is an addict - it doesn' t matter what the substance is - you will be able to relate to these people and their pain.
Dee tram has become a valued member of this forum - giving us insight into what our loved ones go through - but also learning more about what it is to have a substance take over our lives.  We are all miserable and want off the drugs - just some of us have to travel the road longer than others.
I am now below even my starting point for tram - I was trying to quite using other opiates at the time -so started taking 400mg right away.
I am feeling crappy - headach, anxiety, huge night sweats etc.  but the one thing that is killing me is my eating.  When I started this taper - I had it all planned - eat well, exercise, fresh air.  Well to look at food - I am turned off - but I can polish off sweet things in a blink of an eye - to the point where I am making myself sick.  I know I am not getting the nutrition I need.  I was never a terrible eater - but it is almost like I binge on sweets.  Anyone else relate?
My energy is still 100X better than when I was in my 1000mg tram stupor - and I am just taking it as it comes - if I have the energy I use it.
My other big concern - and I know many of you may not relate.  I was prescribed tram because I am an alcoholic and an addict (opiates - go figure)  Tram was the non addictive, non narcotic alternative to pain management.
I have not used any other opiate or drank for over 5 months.  While I was in a tram fog it wasn't a problem - I didn't feel any cravings, or miss the other substances.  But as my tram use continues to go down and the fog is lifting - I am having a heck of a time with cravings.  I miss the high, the buzz - and not just of tram - I now seem to crave all my old vices.  I want so desperately to be free of this life - how can I even consider the instant gratification of using - after the hell all these drugs have put me through?  It is so frustrating - it is the last thing I should want.
I do go to AA meetings and read all of your posts - I know what I don't want back in my life - but why does "this time it will be different" keep running through my head??
Anyways - I am off to toss and turn my night away.
Keep on fighting
Kelly





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by forget_me_not, Nov 09, 2009
Kelly, Yes on the sugar cravings!  I am no doctor, but I read an interesting article describing the relationship between serotonin and carbs.  As it turns out, apparently, serotonin drops when we stop taking the medicine, and that's part of why we feel so terrible.  Wouldn't you know it -- and this made so much sense to me -- carb binges cause an increase in blood insulin, which clears out many of the amino acids from our bloodstream, leaving a higher concentration of tryptophan, a precursor to serotonin.  The tryptophan can then make its way more easily into our brains, where it is converted to serotonin.  And when that happens, boom - we feel better.  For a little while, anyway.

I noticed this in myself early on in the WD process.  Tramadol made me not want to eat (or do anything else that most of us think of as pleasurable).  When I stopped taking it I ate sugars and starches like a CRAZY woman.  Even in the middle of the night I would wake up feeling sure that I would go nuts if I couldn't find something loaded with carbs.  I am a healthy eater too, and never in my entire life have I awakened at 3am to fitfully devour a bowl full of spaghetti and three pieces of bread...but it happened...more than once!

Also interesting is the fact that "appetite" -- which originates in the hypothalamus -- is pretty nonspecific, meaning that we may be dehydrated or hungry and experience it as a sensation of general craving.  This is, as far as I can understand, also related to serotonin.

5-htp is an amino acid that is also a precursor to serotonin, and I tried it on a recommendation from a pretty good source.  I have blood sugar issues so gorging on carbs -- especially sugars -- could cause major problems.  The 5-htp does help regulate my appetite issues, and it has also helped me get more restorative sleep.  It is something you may want to look into.  Be cautious though, as any other medications or herbs affecting serotonin can react with it.

peace,
~fmn

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by forget_me_not, Nov 09, 2009
And Lori, the freezing/chills are definitely par for the course when tapering or quitting tramadol.  I remember reading in Emily's early posts where she was "crazy parka-wearing girl", or something to that effect.  That was me, too.  In  80-degree heat I wore a sweater and coat for DAYS.  Even outside.  I'll never forget it.  Chills, sweats, restless legs, and sneezing all bundled up in a sweater and pea coat in the dead of summer in the South... what a sight I was!

Hang in there and bundle up.  It gets better!

~fmn

Avatar universal
by inspiring, Nov 10, 2009
aloha to all,  just want to report that my energy came back yesterday, my mood was fair, only a few small melt downs  - I breathed deep, knew the black would go way - didn't get lost in it

Today I am feeling even better, mood optimistic, ready to get some projects done tomorrow that I have been putting off

Wow it really does get better, please everyone, keep up your fight against the negativity, your brain needs to heal and it is doing that every minute you stay away from the tram.  I feel so fortunate I only took tram for a couple months - I am sure it is easier for me to heal than the other poor souls here that have been hitched to the tram star for much longer than they ever wanted to be. My heart goes out to you, - I send you strength - I thank you all so much for your support and advice

Have a good day tomorrow  HUGS

Avatar universal
by Lori_MN, Nov 10, 2009
Well...another day another 100mg.  I survived day 1.  I knew I would, but I was nervous for some reason.  I slept better than expected, it was still a hot and sweaty night...but I didn't prowl the house.  It's still "cold" in here despite the furnace and gas fireplace being on.  Hope I don't cook the hubbo.  ha!

I can relate on the sugar cravings.  Holy hanna I was in my candy bowls yesterday that I keep on my desk for visitors.  Normally they don't bother me, but I think boredom and carb cravings had something to do with it.  I have to be careful as I'm 6 1/2 years post-op with gastric bypass and I can get pretty dang sick from too much sugar...plus I don't want to pile on any poundage.  Ok there.  I "outed" myself on that.  Most people are supportive of us former fatties...but some people either resent us or think we are the devil for taking the "easy way out".  Don't get me started on my soapbox...this is a Tram board!  ha!  But if anyone has questions...feel free.  7 years ago I weighed 300 lbs.  I lost 150 lbs and I've kept it off for 6 years.  No complications to speak of.  20 years ago I quit smoking cold turkey.  Ok, I'm seeing a pattern here....food addiction?  nicotine?  tramadol?  Something to ponder I guess.  We are warned post surgery of transfer addictions...although I really never felt like a food addict.  I came from a fat family and do enjoy food, but I'm not compulsive really.  I probably ate more out of boredom.  Which is probably the same for cigarettes and tram.  Gives you something to do...gives you energy...keeps you out of the candy bowl...

Ok, time for a hot hot shower and it's off to the coal mines.  Or salt mines.  Have a good day everyone - we will survive.

-Lori

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by GreatWhite, Nov 10, 2009
Goodmorning to you all and God Bless this beautiful day. Although i slept like **** last night, and have one of the busiest days ever today, I still am in good spirits. This is my 8th day off of trams and I am feeling awesome. Got some immodium yesterday because the Acidophilous really wasnt doing the trick. But so far only one poop in 12 hours. That feels normal!!! I am sure i will melt later on because of the lack of sleep,but as for the morning, i am feeling good. I am glad everyone is in good spirits. I cannot wait to experience life tram free. Tomorrow I see my new therapist, so i am sure i am on the road to finally getting in touch with my emotions and not using pills to drown out the sadness and stress in my life. Hope everyone has a GLORIOUS DAY!!! damn i am not usually this cheesy in person, at least i dont think..but enjoy some laughs today and keep yourselves busy to fight that urge of the trams!!!

Avatar universal
by notsosunny, Nov 10, 2009
Morning Everyone. My daughter and I are home. Although she is healing well they want to wait until next Monday to do skin graphs. We got home yesterday afternoon but then we went to a birthday party and didn't get home til late. I read some of the posts but didn't get a chance to read them all. It's been very busy in here. That is awesome!!!

To everyone doing great...I am so happy for you all and it is so inspriring to hear the success stories. To everyone who is struggling..I feel your pain, but remember it is worth it. It really is. I am well into this battle now and there have been times I just knew I wouldn't make it, but here I am sitting here today still tram free. The rebound pain was more intense than I anticipated, but it didn't last long and now only comes in spurts. My energy level is slowly but surely coming back and staying more consistant. I have already went for a walk this morning as a matter of fact. I have been eating like there is no tomorrow and I just can't seem to control myself so I must walk and work out. I also battle with weight issues. I gained over 100 pounds after I had my daughter 15 years ago. I think I gained it because of depression.I had always been so thin and muscular my entire life until then. I went from being a cheerleader and running track all through school to being a young mom all within a couple years. Looking back I didn't realize I was depressed or suffering from post partum (maybe?!?!) but I was only 20 and clueless anyway. Well, I lost 115 pounds in 16 months and have managed to keep it off for 13 years. So, I am terrified of gaining weight. It isn't a vanity issue at all. I just know my body and I know what can happen to me if I don't control myself. It seems like I am more focused on what is going on with my appetite than I am thinking about trams. I guess that is a good thing. I woke up this morning and thought instantly about the german chocolate cake sent home with us from the birthday party so I made my husband take it to work with him..just like I made him take the percocet to work. I can't be trusted with anything. LOL..I bet he feels like he is babysitting me. I appreciate him for taking care of me. I guess I should tell him that. :)

On a positive note...I am sleeping so good now. I don't know if it is just temporary but I am not even taking the valarien root anymore. I am still having ups and downs with my emotions, but no major breakdowns like I had last week. It will soon be a month since my last tram so I know I still have a bumpy road ahead of me but right now things are really looking up. I have gotten back into the routine of taking my vitamins and supplements. When I got lax on doing that things became so much worse. I don't think I realized the importance of taking them. I did in the beginning of my journey but then I just got lazy with it. I won't allow it to happen again.

I know this is TMI, but I am having my 1st bout with PMDD (Premenstrual dysphoric disorder) since my journey began. I haven't even thought about what I was going to do to deal with this. So here I am curious as to how I am going to make it the next 5-7 days. I have a lidocaine patch on my tummy right now. I was prescribed those for my back and never used them so I have a large supply and more at the pharmacy. It seems to be helping. I have my heating pad on my back. Took some Aleve and coping with it right now. I am about to get out my tens unit as well. Tens units are supposed to help your body release endorphins as well and I need a really good dose of those. :) I am going to try to get ahead of the intense pain, if possible. I haven't figured out yet what to do about the emotional aspect...Wish me luck! LOL!!

Everyone have a great day and stay strong. WE ARE ALIVE and we will all make it through this.

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 10, 2009
Lori and Kelly- I've been doing the addiction transfer thing for about 10 years...since I was 18 (well, that's nearly 12 years...I'll be 30 next month :)).  I started smoking heavily at 15, drinking heavily at 18, using all sorts of drugs through college and after (coke, pot, ecstasy, acid, etc- never addicted to any of those thank goodness!).  Then at 26, I quit smoking and drinking.  At that time, I had a program in place through Nicotine Anonymous online- sounds nutty, but it works just like AA, steps, sponsor and all.  She encouraged me to stop drinking because I wasn't sure I was an alcoholic.  Well, once I stopped, I realize I was or that I was going to be.  I had about 3-6 mos totally clean and then the tramadol came for my back problem.  Thought it was non-addictive.  My mom is in AA and she takes it and is not addicted.  Oh, also gained quite a bit of weight around then and often rewarded my not smoking with meals out.  Anyway, here I am 3 and a half years sober and smoke-free, in weight watchers and  FINALLY realized I was still an active addict with tramadol.  Having grown up in a recovery household, I always worried about my alcohol use and drugs, but this one, I had some major denial about!  Then it just hit me and I read this forum.  I'm one week out as of this afternoon! Woohoo.

My thought to myself is, what am I going to do now to stop the cycle and not transfer my addiction?  I literally don't have many left that are off my "not an option list!"

I've also been getting some food cravings- specifically, dark chocolate...maybe because I think it's a seretonin booster.

As for the chills, I've been cold since I stopped.  bought a fuzzy blanket for work!  Always cold.

Will be back to reply to some others.  Have a great day everyone.

Day 7 here I am!  Not as depressed today yet.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 10, 2009
Good morning all.When I read these amazing stories of people quitting smoking,quitting drinking,losing weight,I see people who can accomplish great things if they want to.The same can be done with the tram and opiate addictions.We have all overcome so much and  will continue to do so.I think a lot of us have a fear of not having a crutch now and in the future to help us cope with pain and feelings.We will have crutches,but they will not be the bad pills,they will be good things.We will have our good thoughts,vitamins,music,family,exercise,work and many good distractions.I remember when I quit smoking and also when I quit opiates,I realized that I had to eliminate even the remembrance of a buzz out of my mind because then I would not crave it.The buzz was never worth it anyways.I still drink wine but limit it to 3 glasses a week because of my methotrexate drug for RA.I want to preserve my liver.I still also take otc pain meds in recommended doses and get a warm feeling when the pain meds kick in.Not a high but a ....ahhh that's better..feeling.Like a warm bath.That's enough of a buzz for me.Lori,you have a great sense of humour and that will help get you thru this.You have also improved your body greatly by losing so much weight.Often people who have had gastric surgery are low in b vitamins so take b12 and omegas and antioxidants and b vitamins.I think it is often fear that we can't measure up or fear of failure that keeps us taking stuff to dull our fears and emotions.We often expect too much of ourselves and if we don't measure up feel depressed.Be proud of your accomplishments and don't hide behind drugs.GOOD HEALING EVERYONE

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by booba77, Nov 10, 2009
oh guys, i am so sick with whatever the hell this cold~swine **** is, and now my 4 year old is at the doc witha sore throat and fever.  I am petrified it is the swine flu.  daddy took her to the doc.  i am the breadwinner with no sick leave left and on day 12 of going cold turkey off of 1000 mg trams a day.  i am really worried cuz i need my baby to be okay.  she is sick because i am sick i am sure.  i can handle me being sick, but not her.  enough rambling~Jenny congrats to 1 week.  that is awesome.  congrats to all of us.  i have no cravings for anything short of a big mack. i wish i could be that chick that eats a tofu biscuit and runs 10 miles, but never was ans never will be.  those crunch pilates aew cool tho, if i had the time and energy to do them.  better work....will post later after i hear back from my old man (he is 4 years younger, i am such a cougar....lol)

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 10, 2009
LOL- Booba- You're funny.  You're daughter will be okay.  Good she's going to the doctor.  Didn't you go for yours already?  I guess it has to run it's course!

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 10, 2009
Day 12 booba...thats great and soon the days will be weeks and the weeks months and so and so on.Good to see your sense of humour has returned and that you are coping with things.Yes this h1n1 is scary but most flus are not swine flu and even if it is most people recover quite normally just like any other flu.Don't worry cause everything will be ok.Just think of the good thing you are doing for your family by quitting tramadol and be proud of yourself.Keep yourself strong and keep healing.You have come along,long way and I am proud of you

Avatar universal
by never_again14, Nov 10, 2009
I have read many comments for many months and finally i am posting because i really feel like this is the time i am going to get myself off this horrible drug they call tramadol. I was in a car accident about a year and a half ago and i was originally put on percocet by my doctor and i weined myself off percocet witch was very hard and began to take tramadol (bad move). I did research on my pc before i began to take the drug and for some reason i found websites just like this stating that the drug was great because there was NO withdrawl symptoms. That was definitly the work of the devil because these withdrawls are way worse than percocet withdrawl and i was on 80mg of percocet a day for over a year. It is 2am on day 2 and i am writing a post wtf!!!! How long do the physical effects really last? i have been on tramadol for about 5 months and i was up to 15 50mg pills a day. I have the option to get more pills and i really dont want to go that route. My life has completely gone in a downward spiral  because of the meds and i just want my life back. Any info or encouragement will help.


Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 10, 2009
Neveragain..You are right there are still sites recommending using tramadol as a substitute for opiates becaues according to the powers that be..it is not an addicting drug...BS it is an addicting drug and also develops tolerance very quickly and because it also has ssri properties it is difficult to stop.People find it hard to maintain pain relief with prescribed doses and often increase the dose and then the viscious circle starts.More drug..more rebound pain and it continues.I suspect the withdrawal from opiates was easier for you because you substituted with tramadol.But now you have neither opiates nor tramadol and withdrawal is ugly.When you stop a drug,you have to plan what you will use in its place if need be and with injuries you will probably need some sort of pain relief.I stopped opiates ct and took 2extrastrength tylenol and ibuprofen or aleve in recommended every 4 hours.This helped the rebound pain and when that subsided was able to decrease the otc meds.Also took epsom salt baths to help pain and relax muscles.The extra str tylenol was during the day and the bedtime dose was substituted with extra str robaxacet which has a muscle relaxant for RLS.Sleep was a problem and a couple of nights I substuted the robaxacet with Nyquil which contains acetaminophen 1000mg,doxylamine,dextromethorphan.It has to be decongestant free Nyquil because the decongestant makes heart rate go up and keeps you awake.I feel the dextromethorphan which is a super mild opiate that affects the cough centre in the brain also helps soothe the hyper active opiate receptors.Also b12 1000mcg,omegas,antioxidants vitamin d will all help.I did discover that most of my pain was rebound and now I am controlled with otc meds just fine.I have to stress that even otc meds are drugs and must be taken as recommended esp tylenol which should not exceed 4000mg/day total dose.Good luck in your healing

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by cake698, Nov 10, 2009
This is my first post. I want to get off these stupid pills!!! I  got them from my doctor about 4 months ago and perscribed 2 50mg 3 times a day as needed.  One week I took them everyday cus I pulled my back at work and thats when it went down hill.  So here I am addicted and wanting to get off them.  I have almost a full script left and I jsut need help on what my course of action should be.  Should I tapper or just quit altogether.  I have the help of my boyfriend and told him that i need his help to get off by basically giving me my pills at certain times of the day and decrasing how much a take. So why was I perscribed these stupid things.  I have pain but its tollerable and didn't really need to get anything prescribed just maybe during the though times.  The reason why i think I was given these was the fact I have major stomache issues when I take otc meds. Also I have a history of addiction so it was suprising by reading the posts that I was prescribed them. I have been clean from oxys/ heroin (in my mind the same thing) 4 years so I feel horible cus I feel I relapsed and have to start over.  I cant go off the way i did oxys 4 years ago cus it involves doing other drugs which a don't want to do lol ive been taking 10 to 15 pills a day and tappered down to 6 a day. So i just need advice on what to do. thnks to all who read this.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 10, 2009
Ohhh cake...You have come to the right place.I only have a few minutes before I go to work but felt I had to respond.You are also at a good time to stop because you have recognized the problem and have support from your boyfriend.Even if you have only been on these pills for a short time withdrawal is still difficult.You will definitely have rebound pain,but with otc pain meds in recommended doses it will subside and you will probably be able to control your pain with only otc meds.The withdrawal from the antidepressant effect of tramadol is harder and can be helped with vitamins etc.Read my above post and that is what I did,but I only withdrew from codeine,not tramadol.Good luck

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 10, 2009
PS Tylenol or robaxacet should not affect your stomach.Aleve or ibuprofen can,but if you don't have ulcers you can take the aleve or ibuprofen with zantac or prilosec to protect the stomach lining.Gots to go.

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by GreatWhite, Nov 10, 2009
Cake- i was same as you, I tapered down. But some people here cant do that, they just dont have will power, or if there is some around still they will take them. Its an individual preference on whether or not you taper, but i got down to 2 50mg pills a day and then just stopped. I also never took more than 5 or 6 pills in a day, some people stopped CT after taking 1000mg a day like Booba. It all depends on what you feel like and is more comfortable. Ill tell you this though, either way, you are still going to experience withdrawal symptoms no matter what you do. Some people say they are milder if you taper, but i had crazy withdrawals and upset stomach after going from 3 to 2 pills a day. So it just depends. Everyone here is awesome at giving advice. I am 8 days clean as of today and although i am still having trouble sleeping, during the day i feel amazing that i dont have revolve my day around taking a pill and carrying those Devils around everywhere i go. Hang in there, and do what you feel comfortable doing. Everyone here will agree with me on that. Dont hesitate to ask for help from a therapist or doctor as well. I prefer not to take any other meds but some people do. Every withdrawal is different and unique in its own way, in an evil way. But you made the decision to stop taking them and thats teh biggest step. Now its all a mind game as the monster tries to hold on to you and not let go!!! But keep posting and read everyone's post, thats what gave me the strength to finally stop.
-chris

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by gerty411411, Nov 10, 2009
hi y'all

I posted on this site july through september of this year and managed to get off of t for a whole month..Unfortunately i relapsed--bad.  I was anxious and depressed and clicked the order button.  It wasn't long before I was taking 15-20 50mg tabsper day,
I was also drinking way too much and buying stuff like crazy.  I'm tired of waking up in the middle of the night  thinking that this is wrong and I have to stop.  I HAVE TO STOP.  If I don't i'm going to ruin my whole existence and/or kill myself.  The drinking and buying coincides with tram useage.  I have no desire to indulge in either one if I not taking t.

Yes, I am one pissed off individual.  I'm really mad at myself.

I've decreased myself rapidy to 150mg per day and am prepared to be done with this.  I have also made an appointment with an addiction specialist.  I don't know if this will help.  I need every bit of support I can muster.

I'm hesitant to join na/aa as I am a health care professional and I don't want people associates to find out.

Thanks for all of the support and comfort I've gotten from this site.

Gerty

Avatar universal
by never_again14, Nov 10, 2009
I started my withdrawls from tramadol cold turkey and the withdrawl symptoms are sooooo severe i can barley stand it. I didn't sleep a wink last night seriously no in out rolling around sleep i never shut my eyes. Im exhausted but cant sleep the rest i can almost deal with the no sleep is the worst. I was on 15 50mg per day if i decide to tamper down starting right away at 6 a day then 5 and so on will it help with withdrawl and when i get down to 2 a day and quit will i still have severe withdrawl symptoms or will the symptoms be so mild i can barley notice? Someone that has experienced coming off tramadol like this please respond and tell me how it went.

Avatar universal
by never_again14, Nov 10, 2009
P.S And ya i had to give my wife the rest of my pills because im not sure i have the will power to do on my own. although she wants me off the drug she has been really understanding!!!

1090333 tn?1264512093
by GreatWhite, Nov 10, 2009
Gerty hang in there you can get off of them booba went from 1000mg a day to CT and she is on day 11. Still experiencing some withdrawals but not much.

Neveragain- you are def going to have some withdrawals it really depends on the person as far as how extreme your withdrawals will be. I dragged myself to the gym every day while withdrawing and that helped SOOO much! Such a relief. I had horrible Restless Leg and Body Syndrome which is why i couldnt sleep. and I still have trouble sleeping. My body is so tired but my mind wont let my body sleep. Thats probably what you are going through. And like you, i can deal with the pooping and the minor pain, but i hate not being able to sit still and relaxe. thats the worst for me as well. Its day 8 for me and i slept fine 2 nights ago and got only like 3 hours of sleep last night. But find yourself a good sleeping pill. I take 2 all natural sleeping pills, and drink a Valerian Root tea i got from GNC before bed. That makes me drowsy. I usually pass out for 3-4 hours wake up and if ia m lucky eventually fall back asleep. But your brain is rewiring itself and the trams drowned out all those things you are thinking about now. I also am very spiritual and pray a lot and ask God for help in my sleeping and to relaxe my mind. but getting yourself some good vitamins, eating healthier, and some nice nyquil or all natural sleeping pill should help. read what pharma wrote up a little bit for good suggestions on what to take to ease the withdrawals. also google Thomas Recipe that should help you as well for ideas. Wheen i cant sleep, i am all over this site posting and getting ideas so use the people here they are awesome.

Gerty- I also enlisted in the help of addiction specialists and yes they can help alot although many of them do not know what Tramadol is or how to get off of it. So find someone who you trust and knows what they are talking about. I have a few emails of people who helped me, they are anonymous and wont ask questions but they def give good advice on what to do. The first step is getting off the trams and the next is getting therapy because most of us are not addicted to the pill, just addicted to not dealing with problems in our lives. We all have gone through some traumatic experience or stressful experience that turned us to the pill whether it is conscious or subconscious. but hang in there and keep using people on here.

I am no expert but i am seeing a new therapist tomorrow who is an addiction specialist who hopefully will turn my life around. She is a close family friend, so funny how things work out. God is always watching all of you and loves you all and having faith and sharing your experience wtih HIM really got me through this, and i know iam not over anything yet.. just one day at a  time..Good luck..
-chris

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by forget_me_not, Nov 10, 2009
Neveragain, Cake, and Gerty...Welcome to this very special place of Healing.  I want to share a link to my own journal because it contains some information I wanted to share after my own experience of coming off this terrible drug cold turkey.  Please, if you are interested, read through it (especially the Part One entry)... you may find something in there that can help you.

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/index/1059641?personal_page_id=861880

Keep reading through the posts on this thread, as well.  There are some wonderful people here who can give you excellent pointers on the withdrawal process.  It's going to be tough but you CAN do it!  

You are not alone.

Welcome, welcome, welcome... we are so glad you are here.  If we can help, please let us.

blessings,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 10, 2009
Neveragain- I tapered to 150 and my withdrawals were nowhere near as bad as everyone elses.  I take klonopin at night anyway, so it helped me sleep and my addictions psych gave me clonidine, which helped lower my BP and anxiety at night.  It's not awful for everyone.  It was worse for me when tapering.  Now I am struggling with some depression because I don't have the Tramadol to distract me from a problem in my life, but that's just how life works.

Gerty- AA/NA should be anonymous and anyone who is there is in the program too.  There is nothing wrong with being in recovery...many doctors are.  I understand your hesitation, but it would make your life easier probably.

Anyway, everyone hang out here.  Certainly many of us are using this as our main recovery tool.

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 10, 2009
I am SO depressed the past couple of days.  I really dislike my job, but it's not that bad.  I just want a break from everything.  I wish I had a vacation or sick time.  I feel so bogged down, trapped, stuck, etc.  The tramadol was masking all this clearly.  I don't know how to get through the days right now.  There is a part of me that wishes I was in rehab or a hospital.  I know that's crazy, but at least then I could escape everything.  Not saying I'm going to use or hurt myself, but it seems appealing.  I may have to rethink going off my AD too and actually go on something better.  I just hate the side effects.

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by cake698, Nov 10, 2009
thanks for the support everyone i'm going to taper. i know i'm going to go through withdrawals no matter what i do but if there is a possibility that i can make the physical symptoms less pronounced i'm all for that.  the one part of withdrawals that i cant stand is the sever restlessness.  just from past trys ive experienced with other drugs thats what always made me relapse.  I was able to quit smoking c/t 2 years ago and got through that by just keeping myself busy. But thats nothing like wd from these things.  But i have found that making yourself get up and do something kinda takes your mind of things.  one thing i like to do is drive around but thats hard now cus of the gas prices but for some reason it helped me in my many trys when i did oxys.  I always was able to quit sometimes for a  month but something would always trigger my mind to do more.  and thats what i'm affraid of with these i wish i knew  you couldn get addicted to these 4 months ago cus knowing me i would have known this was going to happen.  so tommorrow i'll start my tapper and cut one pill out. and stay strong and determined to get my body off this stuff!!  thanks again to all who listen:)

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by Dev0n, Nov 10, 2009
Hi everyone
31 days free and things are good,no longer do i think about this evil poison 24/7.What i have noticed is slowly the good times are longer than the bad times.Its a subtle change...just small things like waking up tired but refreshed.No more tremors or weird muscle movements.I can sit down and read a book or just watch a movie.As i type this i feel a sort of calmness and well being which i havent felt for over a year.Something else i have noticed when i go out i dont look for my trams anymore(always used to make sure i had them) before leaving the house.
My original pain has actually gone away completely! This i find incredible... perhaps another trick of this drug?
At the moment i am only on diclofenic for my knees but i can cope with that for the time being.

To everyone just starting the fight i feel your pain and yes it does get easier.Just have faith in yourselves and be proud of what you achieve each day

Chrissie...hope your son is feeling better soon...and praying that calmer times are ahead for you as well.

welcome Cake i also did a taper ..it did help with the anxiety w/d for me anyhow..good luck hang in there.

Keep fighting never look back

Dave in cold foggy rainy Devon




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by Lillyval, Nov 10, 2009
Gerty I'm so glad to see you back.  I know how you feel because I've been there myself.  After two relapses I realized that I was strong enough to suffer through the withdrawals and GET clean, it was STAYING clean for the long haul that turned out to be the real issue for me.  I went to an addiction specialist and I am now on Suboxone.  Others have gone to specialists and taken other courses of action, and many here attend AA/NA (everyone there is there for the same reason).  Don't be so mad at yourself.  If it were easy none of us would be here.  The important thing is you're back and you'll do whatever you need to do to succeed.

cake and never_again, welcome, I wish you strength for the journey.

My update: I cut my sub dose 20% so now I am taking 1 8mg tablet a day which is a pretty low dose.  I've felt pretty low the last few days, but I'm not lost in the tramafog and I have the ability to make decent decisions for my life.  I'm trying to stay focused on my gratitude and not get caught up in my temporary state of down mood, overeating and oversleeping.  This too shall pass.
Peace everyone,
Lilly

Avatar universal
by hanginin, Nov 10, 2009
Good evening everyone. I finally feel better today. I don't know if I had a cold or some other effect from the trams.  Tomorrow is day 20 for me and I can't believe how much more I enjoy life, even when I feel crappy.  To everyone who is just starting out believe that it will get better.  Lets just face facts that tramadol is not only killing you its robbing you of all feelings and emotions.  I don't even have any pain anymore and my body is a wreck. The vitamins and exercise will make everyone feel better and before you know it you will be several weeks in and won't be able to remember why you wanted those devil pills. I truly wish they would be taken off the market. Keep strong and thanks to all the members of this board.
Hanginin

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by bren54, Nov 10, 2009
Hi everyone,
My feelings go out to all the recent posters just starting their demon withdrawals.I am on my last pack of 20 by 50 mg and am down to 1 pill before sleep after tapering from between 500 to 700 mg per day for 6 years.Its taken about 3 months but has been bearable,just felt out of sorts the whole time.Still feel pretty flat but from what people here have said that will improve with time.Have not had a smoke for 12 days.I miss the company of cigarettes.They were good mates.Shame they were killing me.All these habits we aquire seem to leave a hollow when we have to give them up.I dont seem to have any little rewards any more.Beer ,smokes trammies all gone.I know they were bad but they took the edge off things and let you chill a bit.Oh well.Better keep busy .What a drag.edge of the wagon?

1103290 tn?1261754965
by gerty411411, Nov 10, 2009
hi all,

Made it through a full day of patients with cold/hot sweats, fatigue and major emotional lability and brain fog.  Passed it of as the flu.  This is my second day of 150mg.   From what I remember before, the second day is  always the worse during the taper.  I did force myself to workout tonight.  I felt it gave some purpose to my sense of existence.

Forget-me-knot--I did read your journal entries.  Today all I could think about was how many things I have missed and not experienced over the last 2 years.  It is part of my guilt.  The crazy thing is I think I stayed with the t because I felt guilty about working all the time and not being at home for alot of things.  That i beleive is the source of alot of my pain and depression.  Wow,  thats --------powereful...what a viscious cycle.

I have an appointment with an addiction psychiatrist in 2 days.  I wonder how that will go.....


Tomorrow another busy day.  


Thanks all,


Gerty  


300218 tn?1257422817
by bren54, Nov 10, 2009
Please go easy on my last post,just feeling lousy and sorry for myself.Bought a new guitar and am restringing it so should be thankful for things and not whinging.its hard to stay up when you feel down

Avatar universal
by newway, Nov 10, 2009
Gerty - thanks for coming back.  Unfortunately, relapse is sometimes part of recovery and it takes courage to come back.  All experiences good and bad are important to make our own journeys sucessful.  One of my favorite lines in AA is "progress not perfection" - we learn a great deal from our relapses.  I am an alcoholic and an addict - I know that I cannot do this on my own - getting clean is just the begining of the journey - staying clean is a lifetime of work.  I go to AA - and have found great support there - people from all walks of life who value their sobriety.  No one is their to gossip our "out" someone to collegues - it is a safe place.
As for the taper vs CT debate - it is up to each of us.  I did the CT once and it scared the daylights out of me - the depression was unlike anything I had ever experienced.  I have gone CT off oxy and while not pleasant - would do it in a flash before Tram.  So I am doing the slow taper this time - starting at 1000mg - and I am now down to 350.  I have had mild, uncomfortable symptoms - sleep is touch and go - but overall it is not too bad.  I have someone giving me the pills - I would not be able to manage it myself.  As it is - the lower the dose the more I crave not just t but other substances.  That's why this place and you all are so important - as are the other supports I have set up in my life - I don't want to do this again - I'm tired of the cycle - I want off for good - do that means setting my life up so that it is difficult for me to fail.
I do still see an addictions specialist and will continue to until I have kicked this - any help I can get to make the withdrawal a little easier!
To those of you who are getting through the worst part of the withdrawal - good for you - your posts make me realize that this can change, my life can be better - there is energy, sleep, happiness, family and friends after tram!

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 10, 2009
Back from work and read all the posts.Devvie..Its so good to hear from you and you sound almost out of the woods in your healing.I know what you mean about the peaceful feeling that comes over one.I also know about the dramatic decrease of pain.I forgot or did not need to take my tylenols at work at all today.I am going to have an epsom salts bath before bed and off to sleep.This is usually one of my most painful days of the week,because my weekly dose of methotrexate has not kicked in yet.And here I am with minimal pain.Getty I understand about working long hours and I would reward myself with narcotic pain pills because I really needed them because of my pain...so I justified it to myself.I'm past that now and do not need to reward myself with the high of pain narcotic pain pills.I just concentarte on the good things in my life and am quite at peace with myself.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 10, 2009
I posted before I checked my errors and nothing I wrote makes sense.Just think I will go to bed and sweet dreams all.

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by 12Stepper, Nov 10, 2009
Those of you experiencing depression (that was my worst symptom from month 2-4), just try to remember that it is the tramadol w/d causing all those negative thoughts and feelings--They are not real! That was the only thing that kept me from going crazy during that time. If they are chemically induced by the w/d, they will pass.

I had so much trouble believing that there would be a day when I'd really experience joy again. I just looked on the site and found hope whenever I saw a post about coming out of the depression. It comes and goes sometimes making it more discouraging. If you can just make it through the day, and then another day, and so on, it will pass. I experienced this for 4 long months, which is a long time for tram w/d symptoms to persist. For many, the time is much less.

I feel like I'm becoming whole again and so will you. It will happen. Don't give up.

May you have a peaceful night fellow warriors, my thoughts and prayers are with you.

Linn

Avatar universal
by Lori_MN, Nov 11, 2009
Just a quick g'morning before I have to "prepare my cone" for work.  Hopefully anyone my age remembers that old old SNL reference!

Survived day 2 of 100 mg.  I'm definitely feeling more w/d with 2 rather than 3.  I think more this time vs.going from 4-3 or 5-4.  My biggest funk is in the afternoon it seems so far.  Still cold during the day and boiling at night.  I need a new thermostat.

Welcome to all the new folks - stick around with us, you'll learn alot and get incredible support.

Thanks Newway for the messages.  It's always fun to get "mail"!  ha!

I'll check in later.  Got a hot hot shower with my name on it.  yeah baby!

-Lori

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 11, 2009
Lori..good morning..you are fun to be around and when you are all clean you will be even more fun..Just think...god days ahead.

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 11, 2009
LOL Lori- That's not that old!

12 Stepper- Thanks for the advice on depression.  Sadly, I haven't felt like I could push through it no matter what's causing it.  I called my psychiatrist last night and he upped my AD.  Of course, when I stop that, I'll have to go through the discontinuation symptoms and depression then LOL.  But anything to help right now.  I've just been feeling worse every day.  Seems like I got off easy with the physical withdrawal, only to be punished with the mental.

Oh well, it's day 8! Woohoo.  It's also my 4 year anniversary of when my husband and I first met (not when we got married, but our first date :)).  That's a happy thing!

Jenny

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 11, 2009
JG Do you maybe feel guilty that you had a fairly easy physical withdrawal compared to others and this is manifesting itself as depression?Guilt is an all consuming emotion and can eat away at a person causing severe depression.If this is the case stop feeling guilty and be proud of what you have done so far.It take great strength of character to quit smoking among other things and you have done some wonderful things for yourself and your husband.Be proud and hang your head high.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 11, 2009
Oops....should have said hold your head high

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 11, 2009
LOL Pharma for the typo.  No, I don't feel guilty about that at all.  I feel lucky.  I think it's rebound depression...it feels chemical.  I do feel guilty a lot, not good enough, etc.  But those are life things, not related to wd.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 11, 2009
Just think JG,if you can keep plugging and get thru this,you can get thru anything that life throws you.It is almost 11 am and I must stop for 2 minutes to think of people who died for us in the distant and near past.

895630 tn?1273803653
by 12Stepper, Nov 11, 2009
You have to do whatever it takes to get through that depression. I set a deadline and if I had no relief by then, I'd go to a psychiatrist. It is nothing to mess with and just saying "just cheer up" doesn't begin to touch that stuff. I have been on antidepressants before and did not have a problem when I tapered off.

I never tried the 5htp (an herbal supplement) recommended by Madtram but some have found it useful. Have a good day (it's a good day if it puts more distance between you and tram). Love and courage, Linn

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 11, 2009
Thanks Linn- I'm sticking with the effexor to see if that helps.  All the natural stuff is too risky for me since I'm already on an AD.  At this point, I'm not sure they'd be what I need anyway.  You're right, just cheer up doesn't work when you're chemically depressed...I've had the sort of depression where that might help, but this isn't it! :)

Thanks!

Jenny

Avatar universal
by Lori_MN, Nov 11, 2009
Anyone have any experience with St. John's Wort?  My husband is tapering down with me, which is wonderful, our house will be CLEAN soon - but he tends to get "blue" here and there.  I'm not experiencing depression...yet...hopefully never....but I'm seeing signs from him.  I don't think it's severe enough for a "real" antidepressant, but I think I have him convinced that Tram has an AD quality to it.  We are both taking the L-tyrosine and other vitamins including B-complex and B12 - just curious on anyone's use of St. John's Wort or maybe the 5htp?

He's has muscle aches and stomach pain - my w/d ills are mainly in my head and thermostat.  Funny how different people react to the same evil devil drug.

Thanks Pharma on your comment that I'm fun to be around.  Yep!  That's me!  The party girl!  ha!  I also like your comments on guilt.  Yikes, that is one emotion that has been felt WAY too much for most of us.  I try to tell myself to feel guilty for more important things rather than feeling guilty for eating candy, or not cleaning your house enough, or not going to church enough etc.  I think as a human race we should feel far more guilt about world hunger, poverty, homelessness, pollution and not recycling.

Ok, enough soapbox for now.  Tune in later for my next episode....  :)

-L  

Avatar universal
by inspiring, Nov 11, 2009
aloha to all - Just to report my energy has stayed with me which I hope gives others REAL hope for better days, when the tram fog finally lifted I had glimpses of happiness and each day it has gotten better and better.

JG - I had a couple counseling sessions when I asked for an antidepressant and I told the counselor 'I feel my problems are minor compared with others' and she told me it was still painful for ME and I wasn't to judge/compare - just keep treating myself well.  I figure when I am feeling good then I can be good to others

My best GF said I should never feel bad about myself - God made me as a precious gift to the world and how could i hate something that was so specially created. I have my own path

Lori - Ask pharma about the supplements as some you can't take when on antiD's but the 6HTP worked SO well for me - I take it an hour before bedtime and it makes me sleepy but not drugged like with melatonin

St John's Wort is a great mood elevator but don;t tke if you are still on tram or other SSRI's

I decided NOT to take the antiD;s as I don't want to be reliant on pills and I will never want those WD's from anything ever again

remember LIFE is up and down naturally, the wind blows, the thunder cracks but the sun always comes again, taking tram meant there were no storms inside me but also NO endless sunny days to enjoy

Do whatever you can while detoxing to help you get rid of the trams - even if candy helps DO IT rather than pills. Plan ahead and have tasty healthy snacks - one of my favoriyes - yogurt covered nuts  -ummmm

Have a lovely day - remember and thank those who died for us

Avatar universal
by hockeymom1355, Nov 11, 2009
Hello everyone.  I think this is a wonderful resource for people who have taken tramadol and are trying to come free of its effects.  I came here to see if I what I was experiencing was withdrawal.  My story - I had rotator cuff surgery 3 months ago and was given oxy and hydrocodone initially.  Didn't have any problems with those, but I went from one straight to the other.  Never went over the prescribed amount, in fact, was usually well under the max dose.  At my 2 month follow up I mentioned to my Dr. that I still needed something stronger than Advil to sleep at night due to pain.  He gave me Tramadol.  I didn't think much about it.  I too the tram for 13 days, 50 mg once a day as directed.  My day pain was virtually gone, not even needing advil, so I decided to see what happened at night.  No problem with pain, but I couldn't sleep, felt like I was going to jump out of my skin and had night sweats drenching me & the bed.  The second night was a little better, the third a little better, but still not sleeping through the night.  I can't believe that this was getting a hold on me so quickly.  Of course, it could've been the cumulative effects of 3 months of pain meds, just ending with the tram.

I've flushed the rest.  I'll stick to Advil no matter how much it hurts.  My last few nights have been uncomfortable enough for me and I know I've had it easy compared to everyone else.  My heart goes out to those of you fighting the addiction.  It is ridiculous that the medical community turns a blind eye to all the anecdotal evidence that tram is addictive.  

Stay strong, you have a wonderful supportive community here.

Avatar universal
by Hillbilly47, Nov 11, 2009
I went with both the StJ and the 5-htp.  I think they worked really well.
From what I've read, though, don't take either if you're already on any sort of AD meds or mood stabilizers.



Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 11, 2009
Lori- My psychiatrist and I were talking about supplements and he's not someone that has a lot of faith in them just because they aren't always consistent.  But, he did say that he felt St. John's Wort was one that had some evidence behind it working.  He wasn't recommending for me, as I'm on an AD, but I guess that says something.  It's probably worth trying if he's not on anything that is contraindicated.  

Good luck Hockey Mom.

My only issue with the ADs is in finding the right one.  Side Effects versus how it works.  Of course I'm on the one with some of the worst discontinuation symptoms, but too late now.  Will talk to my psychiatrist about that this week.  See if I should switch.  When I go to get pregnant, I will have to get off it and at least go on a safer one, but probably nothing.  Anyway, right now, I just want to feel better.

Jenny

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by booba77, Nov 11, 2009
I wish I could find my 5 HTP.  i have a sinus infection, my kid has the swine flu, and istill have incredibly loose stools and tomorrow will be 14 days for me CT from 1000 mg of the dam trams.  When do the runs end?  I was doing great emotionally for awhile, but the trams masked other issues so i guess i need to deal with those and get my fam well.  can i take 5 HTP with levaquin?

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by Lillyval, Nov 11, 2009
I've had good luck in the past with St. John's Wort 900mg time release, or you can take 300mg 3X a day if you can remember.  If depression is serious I wouldn't hesitate to go on a prescription AD.

Last night I had my 11 y.o. son's parent/teacher conference.  His teacher said he has improved a lot over the past 3 weeks or so.  I don't think it's any coincidence that I've been off of drugs for about a month now, and I'm taking much more of an interestst in his schoolwork.  I didn't even realize the level to which I was just floating along when I was in the tramafog.  My kids were the #1 reason I wanted to quit and now I'm already seeing the rewards.
Its Worth it!
Lilly

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by EmilyPost, Nov 11, 2009
This thread is closed

Please move to


http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/136095

Avatar universal
by MsBuckeyeBabe, Nov 20, 2009
Hi everyone,

I am so thankful that something like this exists and to know that others are going through the exact same thing as I am right now. I guess it doesn't matter how I got where I am right now but it would at least help me to finally verbalize something that has plagued me for the last year or more of my life. I'm married, have a 3 year old daughter, and am also working on a Master's Degree. So needless to say, its a busy time for me to be going through something that monopolizes my entire being. At first I started out 1 a day, long story short, ended up at 8 per day. The bad thing is I knew what I was getting myself in to. I had a friend who was addicted to the very same pill but was taking up to 14 per day for almost 2 years. I actually helped him go through the horrifying withdrawal, all the while ashamed of myself for having the same secret addiction. There have been about 4 times over the past 1 plus year that I have run out of pills for 3 -5 days at a time. So I've got through the beginning part of withdrawal more than once. And yet I still picked up right where I left off time and time again. And now I'm in a much worse spot. I purposefully ran out of pills because I found out I was pregnant. My husband and I wanted to have one more child but I consistently put it off because I wasn't ready to quit Tramadol. I was beginning to taper off of the pill when we started to try to conceive. I didn't expect to get pregnant after only trying THREE times. I did not time that whole thing with quitting the drug and conceiving a baby at all. But the fact of the matter is, whats done is done. So my tapering went VERY quickly. From 8, to 6 to 5 to 4 to 2 to 0 in the matter of 2 weeks. So now I am 6 weeks pregnant and I will soon be on day 5 of no Tramadol. I'm so miserable physically, but even moreso mentally. I keep thinking that my unborn baby is suffering right along with me. I feel such guilt and immense shame. My intentions were good, but that's about it. So now I have withdrawal symptoms on top of pregnancy symptoms on top of severe mental anguish. However, nothing close to suicidal thoughts or a very deep depression. So that is a bit of good news. I'll take what I can get.
On the topic of withdrawal: it f***ing blows. I haven't slept the past three nights. I'm currently working on night four of the joys of insomnia. I have cold chills running up my body and yet my legs and feet feel so warm, I also have some unexplainable chills in my chest area that can be best described as the pins and needles feeling that one may feel in their legs. So just in case I can't get enough of that feeling in my legs, I get the added bonus of feeling it in my chest AND arms. Restless arms? Only Tramadol would be evil enough to come up with that one. I dread with every fiber of my being when night time rolls around because I know what lies ahead. But no matter how badly night time goes for me, I think the morning hours may be giving the night time a run for its money. It is a living nightmare to drag myself out of bed, and not because I'm sleepy and comfortable. That couldn't be further from reality. I can't get myself up because I feel like absolute hell. I feel like a loser, I feel like every one else is normal and I'm a weak little girl that can't handle life or something. How do I do this? How do I DO this?!
How long does the insomnia last? The insomnia is the worst part for me. I got into Tramadol in the first place because I was a terrible sleeper. Tramadol enabled me to sleep and to look forward, rather than dread, going to sleep at night. It made me feel normal in more ways than one.
Any encouraging words, or honest words, about what is to come for me and this horrible journey? I am so grateful I have so many posts to read and relate to myself and what I'm going through. Thank you for that opportunity.




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by madtram, Nov 20, 2009
Congratulations on making it to day 5 & your pregnancy, it's likely you are nearing the end of the worst of the physical symptoms.  The insomnia can take a little longer.  I can't even recommend something to take given that there are two of you to consider.

The "down on yourself" feelings are also common unfortunately but try to tell yourself it's just the tramadol talking.  The reality is that you are doing a very strong brave thing which has sorely taxed the resolve of all of us on Emily Post.

This thread is full so you need to copy & paste your post from above onto the current thread at:-

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/136095

You will then get responses from the other active posters.  See you there.

Avatar universal
by MsBuckeyeBabe, Nov 20, 2009
Hi Madtram,

I went to the link you included in your post where you said to cut and paste my post into, and my post was already there at the bottom. I'm a bit confused! I'm new here :) Thank you for your words, they mean a lot.

Avatar universal
by DEBHA, Nov 22, 2009
Tonight @ 11PM will be 2 weeks Tram free for me!  I'm excited to say that I actually feel great....I feel normal again.  I'm still taking my daily doses of vitamins and I agree with the B-12 advice from Pharma9.  I think it made a huge difference in easing my withdrawl symptoms.  I also went and got a B-12 shot 4 days ago, but have been taking sublingual b-12 and Stress B Complex daily.  SAM-E will help promote seratonin production, so some of you might want to give that a try. But do not give up, because it absolutely, positively does get better.  I don't even think about Tram's anymore, don't want one, or need one.  It's amazing.  It's possible to get your old self back, I'm living proof.  Plus I'm sleeping again.  I still drink a cup of herbal tea each night, don't know if I really need it....but it tastes good.  I'm hungry all of the time and I am not quite sure what that means.  But I started back at the gym today so extra calories won't hurt me if I'm staying active.  Good luck everyone.

Avatar universal
by Colby551, Nov 23, 2009
I am new here and have spent the last two afternoons reading all your posts.  This is the first time I have ever participated in a forum of this type but I finally feel some degree of hope of beating this horrific drug so decided to take the plunge and join in.  My story is similar to everyone else's except I think I've stayed on this thing for so much longer and am afraid I've done real damage to my body.  Am embarrassed to say it's been 13 years and yes, I've gone the internet route...definitely not proud of that but there it is.  I have finally tapered down to 50 mg per day (25 in the am and 25 in the early afternoon), but I just cannot seem to beat this thing -- but at least now I have a plan.  Will be off work the week between Christmas and New Years so will taper further til then, then possibly play the swine flu card during that week if it gets too miserable. (Now I just have to hope I don't get H1N1 before then!)  

My main w/d symptoms are brain fog and bad headache when I've tried to go off or cut back.  I have no real pain when cutting down, just incredible anxiety and a feeling that I want to jump out of my skin, along with the excruciating headaches.   Can any of you tell me the best way to cut through the brain fog?  I really hate feeling this way and have only just realized (after reading everything here) that my general not-good feeling has all been created by this stupid drug and my stupider addiction to it!  

I am incredibly happy to have found this site -- I really thought I was alone in my struggle.  You all sound like wonderful people and you give me hope.  

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