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Tramadol & Ultram Recovery Room Part 22

Nov 22, 2009 - 215 comments
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tramadol

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Recovery

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ultram

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withdrawal

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withdrawl



Good Morning Tramadol Warriors!

Welcome to Part 22 ... (wow)

We're really happy to see you and welcome all.

Snuggle down by the fire Buddies, it's gonna be a wicked ride ....

Love and Healing,
Emily

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Avatar universal
by desperate2getWell, Nov 22, 2009
Woke up today feeling almost normal.  The B-12 is helping lots, in addition to the L-Tyrosine 1000mg.  Plus all the other good vitamins I am putting in my body.  Used to be really good about putting the T in my body on a regular basis so I hope I can be as compliant on these vitamins.
THere is no good time to stop.  Seems like I am getting hit on all sides with one tragedy after another.  Before I would just take more T and get numb.  NO MORE.  Today is day 7 for me.  I took an OTC sleep aid last night (w/o the diphenhydramine) and rested well.  The problem with Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is that is really dries you out so drink lots of water if that is your sleep aid of choice.
Thank you for all your posts, they help me more than anything.  I learn alot from you all.
Lots of missed homework to catch up on today.  I wish you all healing and light and freedom from the demons T released into our lives.  
The wicked ride is worth everyminute.  I just keep breathing and tell myself that I can get through this moment.  Don't give up!!!!  If I can do it, anyone can, really.

446650 tn?1257614815
by me1414, Nov 22, 2009
Goodafternoon All,

  Well it's day 15 for me and for the most part all is well. I have been surviving and actually enjoying life. My feet have been hurting for a few days instead of my whole body. I can handle that. My energy has been there one minute and gone the next. Overall, I am happier than I have ever been.  I can not rememeber all the names of you all who are just starting out but I want you all to know that it will get better. Gerty just take one minute at a time.  I will keep checking in with you all.

1116864 tn?1258926723
by Melaroni, Nov 22, 2009
I just joined Med Help and stumbbled across this post and was a bit shocked. What is everyones problem with trams? I have been prescribed them for years on and off and never knew that there were people struggling to quit. The demons t's released into your life? What's going on that I don't know about??

Avatar universal
by Lori_MN, Nov 22, 2009
Wow.  I got hit big time today by the no energy monster.  Had lots planned and didn't get too far.  Oh well.  It was gray and rainy-like here in the Minnieapple...so maybe that had something to do with it.  The Mister asked if I was "blue" or sick...and I can't say either of them.  Just blah and can hardly move.  Did get some laundry done and the dishwasher unloaded so it's not too horrid in here.  Took all my vitamins, along with the L-tyrosine and B12.  I have the week off so I'm not going to beat myself up.  Just irks me when I have big plans and they go no where.

I'm going to bed early tonight and will hope for a better day tomorrow.  I have carpet cleaners coming Tuesday and I have stuff to move, so let's hope I move too!  :)

-Lori

1103290 tn?1261754965
by gerty411411, Nov 22, 2009
This weekend was killer, I've gone from 100 mph to standstill and back to hyperspeed in the last 72 hours.  My family and I think I might be going nuts.  I know it 's the w/d .  I'm still on th coaster and I did get through it all with the hlp of my family and all of my friends on this site.  Every day is one more day further away from the demon and one more day closer to life.
Next week will be trying .  I have a furneral to go to tomorrow, and I am back on call Monday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. One minute, hour and day at a time.

Love, Gerty

1103290 tn?1261754965
by gerty411411, Nov 22, 2009
OH yea,

Melaroni, I suggest you educate yourself about tram by perusing the last 20 threads and reading the journals.  Pherhaps you"ll think twice before you pop the next one.

Avatar universal
by Hobbum, Nov 22, 2009
Hi folks.  I just wanted to stop in for a quick note so you don't think I fell off the planet so early in the game.  I still am sticking with my decision to taper slowly due to my 1gram a day usage.  I have no desire to torture myself nor do I believe I deserve punishment.  This habit is not a "sin".  It is just a habit, nothing more.  That it is insidious, there is no doubt for this is the nature of all habits.  Habits are simply wrong choices.  So like all my mistakes (which are legion), I will forgive this one and forge ahead with my plans.

I got a call-back from the job interview folks.  I am now one of three candidates so I will get another interview soon.  This is the closest I've been to a job for so long.  It is only part-time.  If I get it, it I will be assisting a doc twice a week treating the homeless at the shelters here in the city.  If it is meant to be, it will happen.  I must remember that it is not so much what I "do" in the world.  It is about how I perceive the world.  Paying attention to my thoughts will tell me all I need to know about "success" or its opposite.  By "success" I do not mean winning a war with tramadol.  I mean whether or not I choose peace regardless what appears to happen with the tramadol.  (or the job, or anything else)


I am fairly successful with the taper.  I still am dropping one pill every 5-7 days.  One day I  took my usual 20. I am not sure why.   I just chalk it up to addiction and then move forward.

I am sorry to hear of all the discomfort the wd is causing you (my brothers) and am really hoping my own suffering will not be acute.  I will endure regardless.  I am just glad there is somewhere to empty my addictive mind.  This forum really helps more than I can say.  Thanks everyone.  And thanks to my other inner self (who is always pain-free) for leading me here.
Hob.




Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 22, 2009
Hobbum..That sounds like a perfect job for you because of your personality and understanding.Too bad it is only part time ,but that is a start and I hope you get the job.We will all channel good vibes in your direction and you will receive a positive response. Good luck.

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 23, 2009
Hobbum- That sounds like a great job!

I am doing well.  Will have 3 weeks on Tues or Wednesday.  I'm in the process of tapering Effexor now and it hasn't been as bad as expected so far.  It's made me dream even more though and last night I dreamt that I started smoking again- ack.  I quit three and a half years ago.  For those of you who have quit smoking or gotten sober, you've probably had those dreams where you are using again.

See my psychiatrist today.  Everyone have a great day!

Jenny

910168 tn?1262466069
by Lillyval, Nov 23, 2009
Hi I'm glad to see everyone here continuing to fight and new folks resolving to get off this poison.

I haven't had time to be here much because so much is going on in my life.  I remember when I was about two weeks free of tram I posted that I felt "normal" for the first time in years.  Well, now I'm here to say that life gets even better than just normal.  I've actually felt joy and excitement and happiness over the last 5+ weeks off of tram.  I don't want to sound pollyanna like.  I still have bad days and experience anger, frustration and sadness.  But I guess that's the whole point.  I feel the full range of human emotions.  I had no idea how much of myself I had shut down on trams.

I started posting here in May and there were times I was in utter despair.  After failing on my second attempt to quit I began to feel that maybe I just couldn't do it, that I would be a slave to drugs for the rest of my life.  But I'm here to say keep trying, keep fighting it is SO SO WORTH IT!
Blessings everyone,
Lilly

334144 tn?1423248271
by booba77, Nov 23, 2009
Happy Monday warriors.  Feeling blessed today, and cheerful.  Maybe it is the Christmas music? Have a great day and be proud of your achievements, no matter how small or insignificant they seem.  One day at a time is best.  

Avatar universal
by flawed4eva, Nov 23, 2009
How weird, just found this forum about 6 months after taking my last trams. Just to let you know, I was on 30 a day and ended up having many fits and being in hospital for 3 weeks having brain scans and all sorts. I was still popping to the toilet to pop a few. I never told anyone it was the trams giving me fits. My family thought I had epilepsy and all sorts and I still kept my gob shut. Anyway, that was a few years ago now. I weaned myself off, have had a few relapses (the last 6 months ago). I lost everything through addiction. My career, self respect, love of my life.....the lot. But i'm still here. Still fighting. Still wanting the numbness to come back. Will it ever end? If there was a box in my drawer or wherever I used to hide them I know I would take them. Will that feeling ever go?

571499 tn?1300220976
by dammitol, Nov 23, 2009
I don't know Melaroni, like you said, maybe our trams are just releasing demons ;)

BTW, I noticed your interests include bipolar and depression. What's up with that? Whenever I feel blue I just think about something cheerful or go see a happy movie and I feel better right away - why can't you do that? Did something release your demons, or what???

334144 tn?1423248271
by booba77, Nov 23, 2009
I am having a hard time being cheerful too.  I am trying, and failing miserably.  but it could be cuz i am poor and behind on bills.  I feel like I miss the numbness too sometimes eva.  It is like I am desolate and cannot be uplifted at times.  one day at a time tho.....

1090333 tn?1264512093
by GreatWhite, Nov 23, 2009
Flawed-
The fact that you have missed the numbness and not given in to the numbness has probably made you so proud!! I am only 3 weeks clean and i want to pop pills all the time, but i know i am damaging my body, decreasing my life span, killing my brain cells, and ruining relationships with all the people that love me in my life. You got to keep fighting it. Get involved in  hobbies and find a new HIGH in something positive. I used to write all the time, poems, songs, short stories, and that was my vice. But i stopped with the Tram high i was in and now i am definitely trying to get back in to it and find my high in that. some people paint, some people run, some people eat candy bars, whatever it is , find that passion that is not a drug. Find a passion that will not make you unhealthy but will help you release all that anxiety and frustration and help you develop yourself. Keep up the fight!!!  You can make it.....everyone here knows they can make it if they trust and believe in themselves. Also, recently i have found my spirituality that i never knew i had in me and i definitely have given my life over to God and it has really really helped me understand who i am, and what iam here for. love to all
-Chris

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 23, 2009
Flawed- I totally understand where you're coming from.  I always wonder how I'll acheive that feeling or feel satisfied where I am.  People do it all the time though.  Most of them get involved in something else, like AA.  I'm struggling with the same feelings though.

Jenny

1103290 tn?1261754965
by gerty411411, Nov 23, 2009
Hi y"all.
Thank God I made it through the rollercoaster weekend.  My emotions were all over the chart.  I was not the most rational  pea in the pod.  Everything angered me to the point that I just screamed at my poor husband and family. It was my first weekend w/o T.  I honestly didn't know what to do with myself.   I walked the dogs read and took alot of bathes.

On a good note, me sleep is better.

Yes, I still long for the high.  I don't know if that longing ever leaves.  Hopefully I can learn to appreciate other activites and my family again and revel in those feelings.

OUT  TRAM DEMON!!!

Love, gerty



Avatar universal
by tman4071, Nov 23, 2009
hey al,l day 24 ,,,seems like a little more energy today,,,,,everyone ,,,its worth the few days of hell.....please fight ;;;life is too short........believe you all can do it.....

1063254 tn?1259021998
by tiggles, Nov 23, 2009
im currently taking TRAMADOL 50MG and abusing it just looking for a bit of support im feeling very anxious and cannot sleep HELP ME!!

Avatar universal
by desperate2getWell, Nov 23, 2009
Day 9 and all I can say is that I am a little bit less "desperate" and a sense that I am also more "well".  I am going to have to change my name!  Hang in there everyone.  I am attending class tonight and am nervous and anxious and scared and raw.  Whatever, I know I will handle it.  I am following the Thomas recipe and have just bought my first B-12 sublingual pills.  My body is starved for some energy.  Also staying with St. John's Wort.  The SAM-e has too many ingredients for my comfort.  So far, no depression.  GREAT JOB all of you ridding your beautiful selfs of the ugly T.  Read you all later, XO
Tiggles, you came to the right place.  Just start reading from page 1 of Emily's post.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 23, 2009
Had an interesting day at work today.Doctors seem to think they have found the perfect answer in tramadol for opiate dependent people.I had at least 4 new patients prescribed tramacet.When I consulted with them about their meds,I warned them about the tolerance and addiction factor,not to mention the antidepressant effect.Every single one of the people still decided to take the tramacet and give it a try.I told them not to go over the stated dose and if they found themselves taking more to call the doctor I warned them that the tolerance builds up quickly and they may need more and more and they would find it difficult to stop this med mainly because of the ssri andsnri properties.I do understand why they all want to try it...because they have tried everything else and found it only works for a while and this is something different to try.I told them oh yes its different...its worse.The only thing that stops most patients from getting this prescription is the cost and if it is not covered on their drug plan they will not get it they will not pay for it themselves.On paper it sounds perfect...non narcotic...non addicting....helps depression new pain reliever.Who would be stupid enough not to try it.The regulating body has to make this a narcotic which it really is and everybody will treat it as such.Anyways,everybody went home with their tramacet with superbig warnings from me and we will see what happens.

334144 tn?1423248271
by booba77, Nov 23, 2009
Pharma it is so nice to have a pharmacist that warns of these things in order to help others not become addicted. I wish more people would listen.  Tomorrow is day 25 for me.  still good except no energy despite the B12.  Lots of love and healing to all. goodnight warriors.

599071 tn?1300072302
by madtram, Nov 23, 2009
Pharma, what a great job you are doing.  As for your customers' reactions, gave me pause for thought, what would I have done if I had received similar advice from my pharmacist.  I was a complete pharmaceutical naif when I started tram, other than the occasional antibiotic for UTIs had never had a prescription as an adult.

After the tram experience, if a pharmacist warned me off something in this manner, I would run a mile, so please keep up your education campaign, even though people are still filling their scripts, when some of the side effects kick in, they may just recall your wise words & quit sooner rather than later.

Avatar universal
by inspiring, Nov 23, 2009
Great work Pharma9 - In the everyday world - it seems that when one gets a new med prescription,  feeling rotten, in pain  -  read the warnings and side effects BUT ignore them - thinking  -  the Dr. knows best  WELL - I believe you have to be your OWN doctor - use the Dr.s tests, advice etc BUT make your OWN decisions based on research.  I only hope anyone's research brings them to this page first - reading all the hellish posts from intelligent, innocent persons who got the bad ride on the trammy train.

I am copying some of the posts to share with my local med. cte, giving copies to various Dr.s hoping they will read and learn

Be strong everyone, best wishes and aloha

Avatar universal
by inspiring, Nov 23, 2009
oh yeah - I got hooked on tramadol thru a well meaning friend who gave me some of her prescription, her Dr had told her to take as many as she felt she needed - it was safe  - oh dear - I didn't get the chance to read any warnings and when I was hooked I googled and found HERE  thank you everyone

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 24, 2009
Pharma- Good for you for spreading the truth! Eventually, it will reach I critical mass.  I think this will one day be a controlled substance (not sure how that works in Canada).  I know it is in some countries.  At least then, it will be taken more seriously.

I have to say, I probably wouldn't have worried if a pharmacist told me that either.  But, it would have been in the back of my mind at least.  For me, the SNRI properties are the scariest.  I've gone off Celexa once and I'm in the process of getting off Effexor.  It *****.  Thank goodness I'm working with a good psychiatrist.  If people have been through SNRI withdrawal before, then they might think twice about Tramadol.  The interesting thing is that I shouldn't have been prescribed it anyway with an AD because of Seretonin Syndrome.  I was lucky that I never had that or a seizure though.

Well, anyway, feeling okay.  Getting my butt kicked by the effexor withdrawal and some anxiety, but 20 days clean of tramadol and grateful for that!

Jenny

Avatar universal
by desperate2getWell, Nov 24, 2009
Day 10.  I actually slept 9 hours of restful sleep.  My fear about attending class was for naught as when I got there, nobody was there-out with the flu.  It is hitting Calif pretty hard.  In the meanwhile my nephew has been missing since Nov 6.  They found his truck yesterday.  He had left a suicide note and has a gun with him.  As I speak, search and rescue are out looking.  I also found out my mom has less than three months (according to her MD), but she is a tough bird and I know she will depart this world when she is good and ready.  These are the times when my pain gets bad, exacerbated by stress, and in the past I would reach for the T's.  Now I can see that it was just an escape route - a way to check out from life.  Now, I want to feel.  
I am a closet metal-head which means I listen to much hard rock.  The reason I bring this up is because if you listen to the lyrics of their songs, you will hear much of what we are going through.  For you younger people, check out Seether, Breaking Benjamin, and by all means 30 Seconds to Mars "The Kill."  For some reason, music is really helping.
I am thinking about attending a N.A. meeting but I live in a small town, so for now, this is my N.A. meeting.  Congratulations to all of you getting through.  And no matter how bad life seems sometimes, don't forget to breathe and remember you are not alone.  
Love & Light to each and everyone of you.

Avatar universal
by Lori_MN, Nov 24, 2009
Hi - I've had kind of a tough 24 hours.  For some reason the tram craving is hitting hard - must be the ups and downs people talk about.  I caved and took an extra 50mg yesterday after a deep discussion with the Mister about his depression troubles.  They stem from his job and I think are amplified from Tram withdrawal.  Made an appt for him next week to see the Doc.  He was talking some scary stuff.  Not sure the St. John's Wort is going to do the trick with him.  He needs to care less about the corporate world and just do the job and leave it there.  It's tough for him though.  I tell him that there are idiots in the world everywhere.  You just have to learn to deal with them.  I know that's not so easy when your head is f'd up.

So - I'll press on and try to stick with my taper.

Hang in there friends...

-Lori

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 24, 2009
Lori- I struggled the same way at the end of my taper and finally just jumped at 150mg.  It was really easier than tapering all the way at that point.  About a week later, I had to up my anti-depressant because I was depressed from tramadol withdrawal.  Since it acts like an SNRI, he may find he needs an SNRI.  That said, make sure he weighs the level of depression with the discontinuation he'll have from an AD if he stops it.  If he's really depressed and likely to stay that way, I'd go on an AD.  If not, he may want to push through it.  Was he depressed before?

I find the cravings less now that I've stopped.

Good luck and hang in there!

Jenny

1090333 tn?1264512093
by GreatWhite, Nov 24, 2009
Lori-

If it is too hard for you to taper you should just dump em and jump CT. I dumped about 95 pills when I jumped. Now I am 22 days clean. I used to be sooo jealous of everyone who was 21 days and 30 days clean 3 weeks ago, and now here I am. Never thought I could make it this far. but here i am standing strong. I even still get damn emails from the online pharmacies I used to order from. I just delete them with a smile now. It amazes me how I didnt give a crap about my body so much so that I was ordering Trams online from a fake doctor from a fake pharmacy who would just prescribe me them without ever talking to me on the phone. Ahhhh the things people do for money. Its truly amazing. But anyway, I did a taper, even though i was only taking max 4 or 5 a day. Got it down to 2 a day and jumped. I think its the best way, because you still get withdrawals even if you taper. So think about it Lori and join us on the other side. It is a personal decision, and i am not trying to sway you, just giving my personal experience. Peace and love to all for a happy thanksgiving and beautiful WEEK! no work after today for the rest of the week.
=Chris

890982 tn?1259094785
by Prospero73, Nov 24, 2009
Pharm, what you are doing is a good thing.  But I wondered if this kind of thing can get a pharmacist in trouble, if a patient gets back to their doctor and complains that their pharmacist cast doubt on the prescription.  I would think that some doctors wouldn't like having their judgement called in question, but I don't know what they can do about it.  Just curious.

334144 tn?1423248271
by booba77, Nov 24, 2009
I generally feel better today, happier and more energetic.  Hope it lasts through the night so I can get some chores done.  Lori~You may want to consider jumping off, but I dont blame you if you want to taper until after Thursday.  I hate trams more than anyone, but you dont want to be in the throws of WD at Thanksgiving dinner.  the sooner the better though.  this is best day i have had in a while.  

Avatar universal
by grandmagirl, Nov 24, 2009
Happy Early Thanksgiving to all...



Peaceful Wishes from California

Avatar universal
by grandmagirl, Nov 24, 2009
Happy Early Thanksgiving to all...



Peaceful Wishes from California

1103290 tn?1261754965
by gerty411411, Nov 24, 2009
Hi Y'all.  So many good posts.

Lorie, I jumped about a week ago after my second taper.  I found the taper helpful at first but I would go through w'd each time I cut my dose.  I had a hard time with that on my first taper which was not successful.  This time after I rapidly tapered down to 50mg/day over one week I jumped and flushed my remaining t down the old commode.
Empowering yes---frightening  definately. I just decided I wanted to be free.  You'll know when it is time.  We are all here for you!!!

Thank god I made it through pms !!!!!

Desperate,  I love music and have been downloading and jamming since I got off the tram.

Take care all!!  Love Gery

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 24, 2009
Prospero..I just warn the patients of the dangers and do not fault the doctors because they are duped by the drug companies.They are not really at fault because they think they have ordered a safe and effective drug to boot.I have never criticized a doctor for prescribing the drug,just warned the people taking it .It is not even a controlled drug in Canada or even a Narcotic even tho we all know it is.It is advertised as a weak opiate with antidepressant properties and non addicting.Well we all know better and I am sure it will be reclassified in the future.It is actually a cousin of effexor and it is the antidepressant effect that is so hard to withdraw from.Effexor is the hardest antidepressant to wean from.Imagine someone taking an antidepressant for a few months and the stopping suddenly.It causes even more depression.If it is at least treated like a narcotic it would be controlled and a person would be more careful.It is the fact that it is pushed as a non narcotic that makes people think it is harmless.Because of its effexor like antidepressant effect it has many interactions with other antidepressants and also with warfarin the plain codeine or morphine do not.Just for interest google tramadol and check it on wikipedia.It actually tells a lot about the drug.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 24, 2009
PS I cast doubt on a lot of prescriptions..eg interactions,improper doses,allergies and most doctors are grateful that I do.I do really understand why the doctors want to use tramadol,because it on paper looks like the ideal replacement for opiate addicts or for pain relief.unfortunately there is no really effective drug for chronic pain that does not cause rebound pain.our own endorphins are probably the best thing we have and when we suppress them with opiates we end up with more pain.

Avatar universal
by Lori_MN, Nov 24, 2009
Thanks everyone for your kind words and support.  I will seriously consider jumping next week after the holiday weekend.  Like Booba says, I'm not ready to be in W/D with the in-laws here and me making Tday dinner.  But it makes sense to go through withdrawals only once.

Today was about the same - I took 3 again today, oh well - but the Mister feels better I think.  He has an appt next week with our Dr. so that is good.

Thanks again friends,

-Lori

Avatar universal
by newway, Nov 24, 2009
Hi all,

I am actually down to 3 pills a day - from 20.  I know I still have to jump from the last three but the depression scares the hell out of me.  I am on a high dose of Effexor  - the same I was on when prescribed t.  The first time I tried to stop tram ct I was suicidal - it was crazy - dark thoughts I had never had before.  The physical stuff - while not pleasant - I will take any day over the emotional suffering I seem to go through.  It is just plain fear that keeps me taking the three a day.  
I am done with the major withdrawal and now just have RLS, dry mouth - insane, intense dry mouth!, and mild flu like symptoms.  I am not sleeping - but that has always been an issue for me so it doesn't throw me off.  If I could be assured that the darkness would not set in I would toss them all out.
I am actually at the point where I am feeling foolish and hopeless.  I started on Effexor a number of years ago - I had stopped drinking and my father had passed away suddenly.  I was dealing with my mother and the estate - anyways - my gp put me on Effexor - a temporary fix.  So after 5 years and now at the max dosage - I have this to deal with once I get rid of the t.  I think the medication has done more damage than anything.  I think it is the addict in me - I didn't even question the DR - look into anything - take this for depression, this will be fine for your pain even though you are an addict, this will help you sleep.  Now I am a mess of medications I want off of and it seems like it will be a never ending battle.  All because I feel I was looking for the quick fix for whatever ails me.  Now at 40 I feel as though I have spent most of my life numb.
I do feel that I will kick the tram - and feel so much better just getting down to 3.  I just have to get past that fear.
But I don't feel like I can even enjoy that victory - because I have another battle waiting for me.
Sorry for whining - one of those nights where getting free from all this stuff just doesn't seem possible.
I want one of those celebrity rehabs - sauna's, sunshine, the ocean in the background - a personal nurse taking care of you - easing your discomfort - a chef making your meals.  I could disapear for 6 months and come back tanned, gorgeous, slim and
drug free. lol
For now I guess this will have to do - the weather is unseasonably warm here in Ottawa Canada - I won't be getting a tan - but at least I haven't had to put snow tires on my car yet! lol

take care all
Kelly



Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Nov 25, 2009
Newway,  You have me laughing here.   Yeah, I'd like "one of those celebrity rehabs - sauna's, sunshine, the ocean in the background - a personal nurse taking care of you - easing your discomfort - a chef making your meals.  I could disapear for 6 months and come back tanned, gorgeous, slim and drug free."    Heck, I'd even make cook my own meals provided I got all of the rest.  LOL

I had no idea that you were down to 3 pills/day.   Wow, that was a lightning fast taper young lady!  As much as possible, try not to look ahead tho.  One thing at a time you know...

Lori,  You are doing just fine.  I did want throw in some support for your DH in regards to his caring so much about things at his job.  I know that for myself, it's not always easy to just "do the job and leave it..."   For me, its not a matter of caring so much about the details of my work, but those ARE the sorts of details that come out of my mouth.   But for myself,  my complaining gets down to a fear of failure and the implications of such failure on the family financial security.   Which is probably why I become more upset about issues involving internal customers vs. external customers.  Food for thought.

fred

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 25, 2009
Kelly- You sound so much like me.  I started on ADs after I stopped drinking too.  Eventually, I was put on Pristiq, which is the new Effexor and pretty much the same as 150mg of Effexor ER.  I was switched to Effexor by my psychiatrist recently to taper that.  It's been worse than the tramadol.  Although I have found Effexor to be a good AD, I don't think someone like me, with low-lying depression should have been given such a dependence inducing drug.  I was given it because Pristiq is the latest and greatest and they have free samples at my GP's office.  This is the same office that gave me the tramadol, which shouldn't even have been given with it.

I think the Effexor and my klonopin (for night terrors) really helped me through the tramadol withdrawal.  Especially the klonopin at night, but if I hadn't already been taking it, I wouldn't have as it is the same way with dependence.

I long for that same cushy rehab, where I don't have to work! Sadly, with ADs, it takes so long that we would need six months.

Don't feel bad about staying on Effexor if it's helping you though.  I want to get pregnant next year, so I have to get off it, also the libido stuff is really hard.

Hang in there!

Jenny

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by gerty411411, Nov 25, 2009
Hey Newway,  glad to here from you!! I know it feels like there's too much to accomplish.  Look at all you have already done!!.  I understand your fears about depression and suicide ideation. Last weekend it was  really tough for me.  I seem to have a rage that frightens me and I hope I can get a hold of it.
Please give yourself the leeway that you need.  LET yourself celebrate the victories that you have accomplished from decreasing your dose down to 3 pills/day.
Remember, you/we can do this!!!  One goal/day at a time.
Gots to go.  Beeper just went off.

Everyone, have a great day!

Love, Gerty

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by booba77, Nov 25, 2009
Newway....Congrats to 3 a day from 20.  That is wonderful.  I am wondering if the sam e I am taking is really helping my mood.  I am on day 27? and still not much more energy and if a person can OD on B12 I should have.  I am trying to stay positive and get my house cleaned enough to put up a tree on Friday, but dam this depression.  Do I stick with the sam e or try a AD? I really dont want to be on another drug though so I reckon it is not an option.  I wish I could afford a psychiatrist. Or now you guys are my shrinks.  I am super proud of being tram free and not faltering, but am having a hard time staying positive, probably cause of the lack of AD in the tram.  Lori~we will be here when yoou jump.  You can do it girl!!!  have a good day.....gotta work....too many bids, so little time.....

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 25, 2009
Booba- I really don't recommend an AD unless you really need it.  They are hard to get off of usually, so unless you want to stay on it, which some people do...I wouldn't do it.  It's not a quick fix either.

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by booba77, Nov 25, 2009
Thanks Jenny, I dont want to be on anything but I dont want to be depressed either, so I will just keep going and do the best I can.  Thanks for the reply.  Maybe the Thanksgiving holiday will provide the small respite I need.  A lot of my issues are financial, so I better figure something out.  I work in construction, times are slow, no raise in 3 years, it is rough all around. I am blessed to have a job.  let me stop whining and get back to work.....

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by Prospero73, Nov 25, 2009
On antidepressants: has anyone tried doxepin?  I took it for 2 or 3 months 23 years ago when I was coming off booze and couldn't sleep, and it had NO side effects, worked well for my state of mind (thought I was going through a divorce, although that didn't happen), and no after effects after a quit (with a brief taper).

Avatar universal
by desperate2getWell, Nov 25, 2009
I keep taking the St. John's Wort and hoping it will help.  Today is day 12 of no Trams.  I somewhat expected to feel better than I do but what do you expect after years of max doses.  Drank about five quarts of green tea with honey.  Should I be avoiding that-it just seems I have no energy.  
For those of you who are days, weeks and months clean, please keep letting us know how good things will get, at least better.  Hope you all have a Thanksgiving and remember to be thankful for stepping up to the plate and getting clear and clean.
With healing thoughts for all, keep the faith and my prayers are with you all.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 25, 2009
Boy..was that an exciting end to my day at work.At 10 minutes to 9 which would be closing time for us a girl came running  into the pharmacy and asked for benadryl because she thought she might be having an allergic reaction.She said she was tingly around the mouth and dizzy and feeling funny.I asked her what she ate and she said lobster salad....but I am not allergic to seafood.I asked if she had any food allergies and she said hazlenuts.She sounded like she was having anaphylactic shock and I said benadryl will not act quickly enough.Since she was in a pharmacy and we had epipens I said she should have an epipen shot and she let me give it to her.I felt it was better to give her the epipen than to wait for an ambulance or drive to the hospital.She felt better within 5 minutes and I told her to watch how she felt because one shot may not be enough.I have heard of people dying in the car on the way to the hospital.If she had not been in a pharmacy she would have to have gone to ER ,but since she was at our pharmacy I just gave her the shot.i paid for it out of my own pocket because did not want to upset her.It was 87.50 and I did my good deed for the day.Hope everyone is healing well and feel very good myself.yesterday I felt the most pain sisnce stopping codeione and the tylenols took care of it.It was a damp and rainy day and I have been working long hours again.Food allergies can hit anytime.This girl had an epipen at home and I told her to carry it with her from now on.

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by gerty411411, Nov 25, 2009
Pharma,  Great job-you saved that ladies life..God love you....With the way the world is and malpractice is I didn't think there were too many good samaritans left in this world. I'm thankful that there are still people around who still want to help patients/other people.  I'm a physician and I often witness less stellar reactions among my "comrades" and other health care professionals.  Oh, Theres nothing worse than a doctor bashing the system but it is definately a system of the down. Yadda !!!!
I wish you worked at my pharmacy.

Take care, Gerty

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Nov 26, 2009
Happy Thanksgiving to my friends and fellow tramadol warriors.

Life seems well lived when we are able to reflect on where we have been and when we honestly consider where we find ourslves at today.

One year ago at this time, I had begun my quick taper from 400 mg/day to 100 mg/day and was headed toward that cold turkey (no pun intended) experience I would begin the week following Thanksgiving.   I recall having my extended  family over for Thanksgiving and my son and I had run up to the store for a few last minute items.   Cranberry sauce and whip cream maybe.  

Arriving in the garage, I was well into acute ithdrawal and it was all I could do to just "be".  I sat in the car while my son asked, "are you alright dad".   I wasn't moving too fast, but I was on my way then.    Looking back, that (way too fast) taper was no better and no worse than that cold turkey I would experience in the days following.   Again, no pun intended.

If I had known what I know now, I would have stopped using this drug YEARS before I did stop.   But I suppose we do the best we can with the knowledge we have at the time...and when we know to do better, hopefully we find the wherewithall to do better.  

Like everyone else here, I once lived my life subjected to the control of this foriegn substance, tramadol.  I came by this drug honestly enough.  But our "beginnings" aren't what really matter.  In the end, it hardly matters why we took this drug, how much we took, or what havoc tramadol unleashed on each of us.   What seems important to me now is  whether we can finally experience that moment of clarity,  such that we are able to climb out from under the control of this thing...and give thanks today for the new glimpse at life, seen  from a brand new prospective.

Shifting gears somewhat...I offer

A Different Prospective on Thanksgiving:

In the United States, Thanksgiving commemorates the successful harvest reaped by the Pilgrims of Plymouth Colony (part of present-day Massachusetts) after their first winter in America. According to the traditional story, the Pilgrims gathered to give thanks, sharing a feast with their Native American neighbors, who had made possible their survival in the New England wilderness.

Later today, I will gather with 20 of my relatives and give THANKS for the blessings we each have been given in this life.   And I expect that I will probably eat more turkey and gravy than God ever intended any mere mortal to gobble down at a single sitting.  So don't get me wrong, I am totally buying this Holiday.   Burp.

But I can't help but wonder what our Native American Friends must be thinking today.   Anyone?   Because nearly as quickly as that first "love feast" was concluded, my ancesters seem to have begun to consider our Native American friends as collaterol damage in this countries road to empire through Indian Territory.  

For 350 years since that first "love feast", my ancesters constantly fought with, pushed out, treatied with, placed on reservations, pushed and fought again,  and otherwise broke the spirit of relatives of those Native Americans who unselfishly assisted those original pilgrams in this country able to make it through their first Winter.   In short, I have come to believe that our legacy of repeated betrayals became the bedrock on which this republic was built.

If anyone has  time and the interest in learning a different prospective on American history, I strongly encourage reading "Savages and Scoundrels" by Paul VanDevelder, Yale University Press, 2009.   It's an easy read, albeit a deeply saddening read.  The book details the push to empire building from Plymouth Colony to the West Coast.  

This isn't the prospective I was brought up with.  Growing up in Washington State, my only knowledge of our Native American friends came from the history books I read in school.    And I would visit their reservations every 4th of July to stock up on illegal fireworks.  I plead guilty to the unexamined life in this regard.  You see, this compassion for our Native American friends came to me only very lately in life.  

But what seems important to me today is  whether I am able to experience that moment of clarity,  such that I am able to climb out from under the control of previous misunderstandings...and give thanks today for the new glimpse at life, seen  from a new prospective.  

I would welcome posts, notes or messages from anyone on these subjects.   Peace.

Fred




Avatar universal
by hanginin, Nov 26, 2009
Happy Thanksgiving everyone. I want to let everyone know how thankful I am for all of the brave, wonderful and caring people on this board. I am now tram free for over a month and I no longer have cravings or any thoughts of the devil pill. I couldn't have gotten thru the first few hell days without the support and understanding of what I was going thru. I will be myself this Thanksgiving and I am thankful for that.
Keep fighting and don't ever quit
Hanginin

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by booba77, Nov 26, 2009
Good morning all.  I just want to say how thankful  I am for each and every one of you. I could not have gotten tram free without you and this wonderful place. I feel like dung this moening, but I slept too late, but I did sleep and for that I am do very thankful.  I love you guys and those in earlY WD it does get better.  I think we should be thankful and proud of our accomplishment today and every day because the 10 hours of child labor I went through was a piece of cake compared to thos.  Happy Thanksgiving.  You are all in my thoughts and prayers.

Avatar universal
by desperate2getWell, Nov 26, 2009
Fred, booba, hangin, pharma, all of you,
Thank you for the Thanksgiving wishes and thank you for sharing your experiences.  I am almost two weeks Tram=free, and while it seems like I've entered an alternate reality, it's nice to know it's for the best in the long haul.  I am grateful that I am out of that cycle and for everyone here.  Thanks everyone for not judging - if we are here, we have already judged ourselves.  
Hope everyone finds many things to be thankful for, but most of all for being good to yourselves which extends to everyone around you.  Be safe while traveling, and like Hangin says, 'keep fighting and don't ever quit'
Still desperate but better everyday. XO

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by gerty411411, Nov 26, 2009
Happy thansgiving you all!  Thanks for all the support and advice.  It's been invaluable.

Love, Gerty

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by Dev0n, Nov 26, 2009
Hello brave warriors
So good to read and follow all of your success stories. I suppose the most asked question is..how long before i feel normal again? For me it was day 30ish..I woke that morning feeling relaxed and in good spirits (the black cloud had gone away). And also in that moment knew i had defeated the enemy.
The physical stuff was pretty much gone by day 20. For me though the toughest part was my mood and anxiety. But gradually it got better, just a little every day. I would advise anybody to keep a diary or do a journal on here. When you feel like crap just go back to the dark days of that first week and you will see how far you have come.Worked for me anyway.
Personally my use of tram was totally out of control. I often wonder how it didnt kill me seeing how far above the prescribed dose i was taking.

C/t  or taper?  I tried the c/t twice. Each time i failed as i had no idea what was going on in my body. So like most i googled tramadol and came across this site. What a relief to find people just like me. Maybe that sounds selfish but i was so happy to find a place with others in the same boat!.
I changed my GP and found one who listened to me..She came up with the taper plan and i stuck with it. OK it was like having w/d all the time but nowhere near as bad with the depression and anxiety.

Also i have to mention my long suffering wife who has stuck with me for the best part of 35 years.We actually met in year 5 at secondary school. She has given so much support through this and i couldnt of done it without her.
So in a couple of weeks time i am taking her to New York for a few days as she has always wanted to visit..perhaps i can finally taste a proper hot dog! :-)

Fred ..Thanksgiving is just another day on the calender here..As far as i can remember about half of the pilgrims died in the first winter. Didnt the native indians welcome the english settlers with open arms?
My countrymen (and indeed your ancesters) spread to all parts of the globe and with a ruthlessness and greed which leaves me feeling kind of sad and ashamed.
Many of the towns in Massachusettts(sp) are the same as in my county of Devon..Plymouth,Exeter,.probably a few more if i look for them.

This forum has helped me so much and without it i would not of made the long journey.So i would like to thank each and everyone of you and especially Emily for starting the whole thing.I still have to be on my guard as sometimes the tram devil he comes calling. But now he is no longer welcome and gets the elbow pretty dam quick.

To all those in the first weeks be easy with yourselves..time is the healer here..it will get better and better i am living proof of that..Yeah you may have set backs but dont falter because each time it gets easier to deal with.I never thought i was ever going to get better but i did. Some seem to be free after a short time others(like me) take a lot longer. Thats just the way it is and you have to kind of deal with it the best way you can.
ok i have rambled on long enough

Healing thoughts to you all...keep fighting never look back.

Dave in "no turkeys here"  Devon




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by gerty411411, Nov 26, 2009
The wonderful world of insomnia has decided to visit me again.  Also have anxiety and rage.  Not a good combo.  I know things will improve as time progresses.  Have an appointment with psychologist tomorrow.  Day 10/11.  I'll keep trucking.
On a positive note, I did get to spend the eveening with my family and I'm thankful for that.



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by booba77, Nov 27, 2009
Devon thanks for the  hope.  I will br on day 30 in two days I think? I did sleep with no sleep aids last night except the turkey may have halped...lol.  Time to kick  this filthy house into a clean one...wish me luck.  Good luck warriors and any brave black friday shoppers.

Avatar universal
by sasha444, Nov 27, 2009
It's taken 10 years to get this this point, but It's time and I need some help from someone who can walk me through this.   I have been taking Tramadol for 10 years for a back and shoulder injury.  I have kept it to 50 mg 3 times a day all 10 years for fear of addiction.  But, I have been addicted for a very long time, only too discouraged to acknoweldge it.  I used to be worried about the physical pain I would exprience if I got off of it, now I am more worried about the addiction and the withdrawals.  

Yesterday,  I decided to cut back to only 1 in the morning.  Last night, all night was spent with my skin crawling,  restless,  hot/cold,  sinus congestion, sneezing, tossing and turning.... I can't believe this happened.  Two doctors told me it was not addictive - I asked them for non addictive medication for long term use.  I don't know how to get off of this and I want to be free.

I keep thinking, how am I supposed to function at work or at home while going through this, but I don't want anyone to know, they can not know at work.

Where do I start,  even if I taper off, I still am only taking 3/day.   Going somewhere to withdrawal is not an option because I have responsibilities at home.  Thank you, I know some of you have suffered like this and made it to the other side.  Your experience means a lot.


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by forget_me_not, Nov 27, 2009
sasha, Welcome!  Your post almost brought me to tears.  I understand, and so many others here do, too.  Please hang out here and read through Emily's prior journals (click "journals" and "view all" at the top of this page).

You were told that tramadol wasn't addictive and you trusted that.  As I did, and as most everyone here did.  I believed I was making a very responsible and smart choice by taking it.  Boy oh boy, until I ran out the first time.  Then I knew.  Then I got online and read a little and got REALLY scared.  The SSRI-SNRI activity of the drug is what brings you down so hard when you stop or significantly decrease your dose.  And it's what makes it so frighteningly difficult to get off of.

But take hope here -- we've done it, and so can you!  It will be difficult but it is not impossible.  I understand you not wanting those around you to know.  In your case, I would recommend either a VERY slow taper (do you take the white tablets?  Try halfing them and taper from 3 to two and a half, then to two, and so on).  This will help keep the withdrawal from being too overwhelming.  Or, go cold turkey, and tell your family and work you have a flu-like illness for a few days.  Honestly, neither option is going to be pleasant.  I chose cold turkey because I simply could not live with it any longer.  I would have chosen death over even one more day with this drug.  That is how sick it was making me.

Cold Turkey will feel like what you're already experiencing -- restless legs, sweats, fatigue, depression, and so on.  So will tapering.  So it's your call.  We are here to support you, though.  If we can help, let us.

Best Wishes and Healing,
~fmn

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by Lillyval, Nov 27, 2009
Fred - one of the things I am thankful for is your support of me and all the newcomers on this board.  I'm sure you have no idea how many people you have helped.  On the topic of Native Americans: I have two school age children and they (thankfully) are not being taugh the whitewashed version of American history that we were taught.  Maybe by the time they are adults we will change Columbus day to Native American day and use it to help the decimated native communities across this land.

I also am thankful to be tram free.  This is my first thanksgiving in memory that I haven't counted out my pills for the day with the in-laws and stayed as numb as possible.  I learned I CAN get through the holidays without drugs, and if I can ANYONE can.

Welcome Sasha, maybe since you've been on it so long you could try cutting back 1/2 a tablet at a time.  If you drop by 25 mg a week you can be done in 6 weeks.  You sound like a good candidate for tapering because you were able to hold your dose at a low level for so long without increasing.  I wish you the best of luck.  

thankfully,
Lilly


Avatar universal
by DeeTram, Nov 27, 2009
My husband has been Tram free for 16 days. In Oct. he gave me his last pills to help him taper off. He's been doing great the past 16 days.... so I thought. He's had days of fatigue or restlessness but we were still able to get out and do things together. We have made plans to go to Fla. for 2 months! We were supposed to leave next week!

Today he was on the speakerphone talking to his friend who used to give him extra pills. He warned his friend that they were on speakerphone. This sent up a red flag for me. I knew right away that meant he didn't want his friend to talk about the pills. There was something he didn't want me to hear. My heart sunk & started racing all at the same time. They made plans to meet for breakfast before we leave for Fla. We ended up in a fight after he hung up.  I hate the secrecy & dis-trust. Long story -short- my husband admitted that the last time he was with his friend he asked his buddy if he would give him some Trams if he asked for some to take to Fla.  His buddy said sure.  THIS FRIEND IS AN  AA  SPONSER !  (my husband won't go to AA -says he can do this on his own)  Shouldn't this guy know better than to enable an addict????  My blood pressure is sky high right now just thinking about this up coming breakfast. This guy is my husband's closest friend (probably because he's also his supplier). I don't want to tell him to quit being friends with the guy.  He would just sneak behind my back. I don't want my husband to get Trams from this guy!!

These damn pills have such a big hold on my husband. He is soooo deceptive about them. I HATE IT!!  Now that he's been off of them (supposedly) for 16 days, I know the will power is all up to him. I question him when he gets home after golfing with this guy but apparently he just lies to me. I ask him if they talk about the Trams.... if the guy gave him any.... etc. He said no but now I know better.

How do I get trust back?  What should I do when I know my husband is going golfing with his Tram addict friend?
PLEASE HELP!!!!!  
I guess this just shows that it's not only the addicted who need help.... but the family members need help too.

Avatar universal
by DeeTram, Nov 27, 2009
OMG!  I just called his friend to talk about MrDeeTram's addiction. He gave my husband 7   50mg. pills the day before Thanksgiving!  When I asked my husband this morning when was the last time he took a pill he said when I gave him the last one 16 days ago!  HE LIED TO ME!!!  IAM LIVID RIGHT NOW!   My husband heard my conversation with his friend on speakerphone and left the house. Drove off. I asked his friend to come over.  He didn't know how addicted my husband is to Tram. His friend told me during our conversation that they AREN'T ADDICTIVE!!  I told him how much my husband lies to me. And what this website has said about Tram.  He didn't know. And he takes this stuff!!  I thought my heart was racing BEFORE!!  It's about to pound out of my chest!  My husband has been telling me for months now that he WANTS to get off this cr*p. Now I can't believe a word he says!  Maybe I'll be going to Fla. by myself......
Did I mention my husband has a defective heart valve & shouldn't be taking Trams at all???

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by gerty411411, Nov 27, 2009
Hey y'all, Today I feel abit of the depression kicking in.  I remember last time I quit I started feeling restless about now (day 11)  This is when I start those thoughts that maybe t isn't so bad.  Thank god I don't have anyway to get some.
HERE'S TO KEEPING ON !!!

Have a good day!!

Gerty

Avatar universal
by DeeTram, Nov 27, 2009
My husband's friend did come over but my husband was sleeping in our bedroom (and wouldn't come out of the bedroom) so I ended up talking to his friend (who is also taking Tram & also a recovering Alcoholic) for about 40 min.  He said he did not know the extent of MrDeeTram's addiction. HE KNOWS NOW! I told him about the lies, the deceitfulness, the withdrawls.... everything I could think of. I told him my husband will take any kind of pill someone gives him. He swore to me that he will never give my husband another pill of any kind.  I told him to do me a favor and not take any Tramadols for 3 days. Then he will know what my husband goes through whenever he goes thru withdrawls. His friend was told by his Dr. that these pills are a synthetic form of Vicodin but not addictive. His friend told me he was going to not take any Trams for the next 3 days to see if he goes through withdrawls. He says he usually takes 4,  50 mg a day.

After talking to him for 40 min. he said he'll come back tomorrow morning to talk to my husband. He was going to talk to someone in his AA group about this. My husband is going to be mad tomorrow morning. He never wanted me to talk to his friends about his addiction. The drug addiction counselor I went to for awhile says that an addict wants to keep his family "isolated" from his drug friends.

I called the drug addiction counselor today but he wasn't in his office because of the Thanksgiving holiday. I left a message to call me as soon as possible. I need to talk to a professional. I don't know if I can trust my husband's friend. He hugged me before he left and said he won't ever give him another pill. BUT.... he's my HUSBAND'S friend.....can he say no to him?????....  

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by Prospero73, Nov 27, 2009
DeeTram, your concern is totally understandable.  However, I think you need to get out of the firing line in this situation, as attempting to monitor and control your husband's behavior is just going to pile the stress on you, and ultimately will not help your husband.  He is the one who should be posting here, but obviously he has no intention of doing so.  This is the kind of fix that Alanon (and whatever version of it is concerned with drug addiction) was designed to deal with.  Giving the pills to a friend, relative, or spouse for doling out doesn't bode well for the addict's sincerity, and it seems that in this case he is more interested in placating you than in quitting himself.  Efforts to flush out his deceptions will only stimulate him to find more devious ones.  This is just my opinion, based on my own addiction to alcohol (sober in AA since January, 1986) and being parent to a methadone addict (1981-2009).

Avatar universal
by DeeTram, Nov 27, 2009
Prospero73 -  congrats on your sobriety since '86, wow. I'm impressed.  So sorry to hear about your child's meth problem. That must be so difficult for you to see your child go through that.

Thanks, I totally agree with your response. I didn't want to dole out his pills during the taper. He told me how many to give him everyday while he tapered off. I thought I was helping.  I would have rather he took control and tapered himself or flushed the last 100 pills and gone CT. He keeps telling me he wants to do this "HIS WAY!"  (he says it in a nasty way)  If I would have told him that I didn't want to help him with the tapering and he would have kept on taking the high doses then I would have felt guilty for not helping.   I know, if his friends are being honest with me & don't give him anymore pills (Tram, Vicodin, Oxycodone, etc) and his Dr. won't prescribe them for him anymore, he WILL find a way to get his hands on them. He has an addictive personality. I believe in his heart he truly wants off of them but HIS WAY is not working & I can't live like this any more. I know he should talk to a counselor or phsycologist or go to AA but it has to be his choice. He doesn't want to do it. I've asked him to read these posts. He won't do it. But yet, he tells me repeatedly he wants off these pills. After reading so many posts on here about people falling off the wagon and taking some Trams when they shouldn't, I half expected he would try to get some from his friends. But the lying & deceictfulness & sneakyness just tears me up.  lies  lies   lies   lies   lies  lies

How do I get out of the line of fire?  How do I sit back and not say anything about what he is doing to himself and/or us?  I'm trying to help myself. I called a phsycologist today for an appointment but he wasn't in his office. Hopefully he will return my call Monday. What more can I do for me?  



Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 27, 2009
Ohhh..i'm so sorry DeeTram for your disappointment.My heart feels for you.I  have no answers for you..perhaps you are right and should go to Florida alone.Join AA or whatever helps you as a spouse and try to continue your own lifeMr DeeTram will not quit till he is ready and probably thinks he is not doing anything bad because tram is not a narcotic.I remember when I smoked and my husband did not like it I sneaked them and hid them.I finally realized that it was a selfish habit and cigarettes had no part in my life and quit 26 years ago,but I had to come to that realization.My thoughts are with you and I understand your anger and disappointment.

Avatar universal
by newway, Nov 27, 2009
Dee Tram,

I did send you off a note - but I just wanted to mention that addiction does take over someones life - it will make them do things  they would not normally do.
I have lied, cheated, stolen - basically manipulated and crushed the person I love - all for something that is killing me.

I don't know how to explain it - mr is lost, but he is still there - the addiction is just winning right now.

Please take care of yourself!

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by booba77, Nov 28, 2009
Ms Dee Tram....we are praying for you both.  These are rough times now and I understand how both of you feel.  He needs to get off the trams. but may not be ready, and is probably ashamed and wants to take them but doesnt want you to know cuz he doesnt want to hurt or upset you.  I wish he would post here himself, but he has to be ready to take that step. He needs to know life can be great without the devil trams.  I am on day 29 I think? I still dont have all my energy back, but am great otherwise.  I am taking my girl out to celebrate sleeping in her big girl bed alone.  4 years old and finally sleeping alone, thanks to my hubby.  have a great day warriors.  stay strong.....we can beat this monster, all we need is to best utilize our resolve.  

Avatar universal
by DeeTram, Nov 28, 2009
Pharma9 - newway -booba77 - Thanks for the support. It's been a rough 2 days. I'm very depressed. I just want to sleep. I'm disappointed that he re-lapsed. But after reading so many posts on here.... I half expected it. BUT the way he did it.... so sneaky & deceptive. And the LIES he told me!! THAT's what pi$$ed me off the most! I had helped him through the taper process and thought he could talk to me about his feelings. But we were apart for 1 hr. and he had to sneak off & get 7 DEVILS.
His friend, who gave him the 7 pills, is a sponsor in AA. He came over to the house today to talk to both of us. He did not know the extent of MrDeeTram's abuse. My husband had told him he just wanted a few to take to Fla. But now the friend knows my husband took those 7 pills in 2 days. I also told this friend yesterday to not take any Trams for 3 or 4 days just to experience the withdrawls.  He said this morning that he didn't take any today. So tomorrow or Mon. he should start feeling the effects. He promised me & my husband that he WILL NOT give MrDeeTram anymore pills of any kind.  Oh I'm praying.........

booba - what a fun celebration that will be!  I loved those milestones!   My son is 25 and the reason we are goingt to Fla. is to help him move into his first home.  ahhhhhhhh..... love those milestones & memories......   :)

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by gerty411411, Nov 28, 2009
Hey y'all,

Had a frightful migraine today..thank God I was able to get a massage.  Very tired and sore.  Hopefully won't have to go back to the hospital tonight.

Dee Tram,  My thoughts are with you..I hope things calm down and get back on track.  Recovery rarely occurrs linearly.  There are many little hills and valleys involved in scaling a mountain.

Love, gerty

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by gerty411411, Nov 28, 2009
Headache is back. Feels like someone is drilling through my right eye while my head is in a vise.  I splurged and got the fancy epsom salts at Rite Aid and the ibuprofen liquid gels  _waa-hoooo!!!  I feel like I did During my first week of w'd. I'm holed up in my "hospice" room with my remote, magazines and books.  The problem is I cannot concentrate on anything for more than a few minutes.

I'm reduced to wearing sweats and Uggs.  The thought of dressing up for work this week is too much.  

I'm soldiering on---one more day between me and the demon



Avatar universal
by Lori_MN, Nov 28, 2009
I feel for you Gerty on the migraines.  Hang in there sister.  I've found as far as OTC - the only thing that does much good for my migraines is good old Excedrin.  I also use Imitrex nasal sprays for when I can't get them tamed with Excedrin.  I'll have to say since I went on birth control pills, they've settled down considerably...as I think mine were triggered mainly by my goofed up hormones...and my high dose (for me) of Tram.  Once I got down to 150-200 mg of tram, that and the Pill...settled them down some.

Stay in your hospice room as much as you can...soon all will be better.

-Lori

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Nov 29, 2009
Dee Tram,   I am with Prospero and Newway 100% on this.   I am probably guilty of not warning you off more strongly when you arrived here to find help for Mr. Dee Tram.   I have seen others arrive here, looking for help for spouses, but unless the addict themself is willing to do what it takes to get clean FOR THEMSELF, it probably won't ever happen.   My wife could have no more found help for me before I was ready, than I could successfully dig oil in our back yard.   It never has a happy ending.

As someone else posted, trying to fix Mr. Dee Tram will only result in dissappointment and frustration for you.   I am 100% convinced that no amount of love and caring by one person will make another WANT to quit alcohol or any drug.   If he should ever decide to do what it takes to get free, you can support him, but even then, please don't put yourself in a position of being responsible for his sobriety in ANY way.   Don't agree to hold his pills, don't agree to find him remedies to help his withdrawal, don't make appointments with doctors for him and don't participate in ANY way.  To do otherwise, only sets you up for heartache and frustration.

Your attending AA won't help either of you either.   I might suggest that you begin to attend Alanon, where you will find comfort and understanding with similarily situated spouses/partners of addcits/alcoholics.

Addicts lie and say whatever someone else wants to hear so they can keep taking their drug. Mr. Dee Tram isn't a bad person necessarily, he is just an addict.    Dare I ask how long you have known Mr. Dee Tram?   As odd as this may seem to you, Mr. Dee Tram's actions don't even mean that he doesn't love you or care about you.  

That trip to Florida by yourself might be just the ticket right about now.  

Hugs,  

fred

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 29, 2009
The last few days have been the most painful since I stopped opiates.RA pain has hit me in the hands and feet and back is sore.I just keep taking extra str tylenol and ibuprofen every 4 hours and tolerate the pain.I watch the clock because I can't take either drug to early or too much.It takes at least 1 hour for the meds to kick in and they last for  approx 3 hrs.That leaves 1 hour of pain every 4 hours.I grit my teeth and keep busy.It has been a long week and I am on my feet long hours.I think I will increase my methotrexate dose by 1 tab this week and see if it helps.I am sleeping very well with no aids ans am still very upbeat.I accept that pain is part of my condition and the otc pain meds help.Everyone keep healing and hope you all had a happy thanksgiving.

Avatar universal
by DeeTram, Nov 29, 2009
Thanks Fred. I have been with MrDeeTram for 20 yrs. He's done marijuana, speed... etc.  Tram has been the worst for him to get off.   I agree with your last post. Very insightful.  I appreciate it.

I did attend Al-anon meetings last spring when he went through CT withdrawls. I had a difficult time relating to what was being said at the meetings because so much of it was geared toward alcohol. I will try going back.

I did tell him I wanted to go to Fla. by myself but he wants to go to get away from the temptations here. He says 2 months off Trams (and no access to them) is what he wants & needs. His friend, who was giving him some Trams, came over yesterday and swore to both of us that,now that he knows how serious MrDeeTram's addiction is, he will never give him another pill.  I'm tired of fighting over these Trams.    If he wants to go to Fla. I won't argue.

I'm going to try and get myself busy with some projects and try not to think about this Tram nightmare. I'm going to spend more time with my friends (here & Fla.).  Working on my son's new house (painting & repairs) in Fla. should be good therapy for me.

I'm going to try to stay off this website so my mind isn't dwelling on this addiction.  Thanks to everyone for your help. I am truly grateful to everyone for your help.  

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by booba77, Nov 29, 2009
Ms dee tram, it will do you both good to get away for awhile. We are here for you but understand if you dont post for awhile.  you are both in our thoughts and prayers.

Avatar universal
by Cptls33, Nov 29, 2009
I was taking 600mg of ultram a day. My doctor prescribed me 360 tabs of 200mg Ultram Er tablets. I would peel the layers off each talet so it would hit me fatser. I did this three times a day for a little over a year. The last couple of weeks I have weened myself down to 1 200 mg Ultram Er a day, peeled. Two days ago I decided to stop completely, cold turkey. I have been reseaching all of the with withdrawals that I am going to have but I decided I would just stop completely and hope I dont die from withdrawal. It has been 2 days and the only bad experiences that I feel so far is that I can't sleep and I am drowsy or kind of out of it during the day. Does anyone know if I will be having more withdrawal symptoms in the days to come? Also I was thinking about asking my doctor for some ambien to help me sleep until my body is used to not haaving all this tramadol in my body? Does anyone think this is a god idea. Also, how long until tramadol withdrawal symtpoms start to subside and feel kind of back to normal again?

Thanks!
R.B.    

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by ds865, Nov 29, 2009
to newway..how funny. i kind of did what u are doing. but i finally checked my self into a place. It was nice no bad sickness and people taking care  of u. i didnt get tanned or slim but a week under my belt with NO tramadol....someone had mention they felt like they were walking in mud....me too. i fairly move. i thought this would geat easir..but i am so freaking weak. i wish i could hav stayed longer in the hospital..ha i was so scared when i went in then didnt want to leave back to reality and well u know..just moving....is a chore....what did i did before tramadol i have tried to rack my brain....i have so many peopl depending on me and i cant take care of myself right now. scares me. but i do have sevral weeks under my belt and NO WAY is this stupid drug going to win.... really I hav decided I would die before i give in..sounds dramatic, i am a bit i suppose. I needed support and lurched around here for a few days and really like all of u......got to go to work today and i do have a supportive husband who worries sooooooooooo much about me going back...i was taking 20 to 25 a day and he couldnt get me up almost one day. job was in danger all over a stupid pill. or pills i should say. i wish all the best and you all are in prayers and please keeep me in yours...just for today is all i have to do.....or an hour....with GOD i know i can!  sorry about rambling as u seee i talk to no one about all of this...i need support and hope i can get this board from work. take care and God BLess!

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by ds865, Nov 29, 2009
does anyone know how long do u get some endorphines back.....i wish we could buy some....ha its me again..ds i am stil stuck on the couch with a million trillion things to do and have to go to work and by my sisters and moms and dads and where am i....right here feeling like crap.  head feels funny. i think its the meds they have me on. i hope so. not a  tumer! okay i am just being paranoid now.... look foward to talking and finding someone to help when times are hard and i could help also....ds take care all

1122842 tn?1259649766
by ds865, Nov 29, 2009
booba i dont know how u got the energy to put up a tree i am impressed! i varily can shower and get clothed and drive to work and let all think i am just sick...i get so dizzy and light headed. i sit and cry of all the things i need to do and want to do and here is it whiing.....how bad i feel. i took my last tramadol the thursday before thanksgiviing.... and i admit a lot of my physical hurtings are subsided but the depression, energy, fatigue, scared anxiety is all there and raging foward..... i just want to crawl in a hole one moment than the next moment scream at how much i hate the pill and how did i get  in this shape???? we are all  suspictle to this and i use to be one who thought NOT ME...well yes me... yes to anybody that takes something every day and touches or crosses some sort of threshold  of them...that makes them feel numb and "oh yeah this is what i needed, its a GOd send for sure" well tramadol was a devil sent for me... okay enough again...sorry i am going on so but having trouble getting motivated to just get up. i have a wonderful husband who checks on me constantly a good family and i feel like a piece of crap...making them worry  about me..

Avatar universal
by Lori_MN, Nov 29, 2009
Hi Pharma,

Sorry to hear your RA is acting up more than normal.  Is there any other RX that helps?  I imagine all that standing at your job is tough when your joints are barking.  Hang in there and hopefully all will quiet down soon.  Glad you're sleeping well, that's a blessing!  Sending you healing thoughts...you're always there for us tramheads...we're here for you too!

Lori

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by booba77, Nov 29, 2009
I never got my tree up or my house cleaned.  today is day 30 for me and I am still struggling with energy. My house is so bad I want to torch it and my family will not help me clean.  it makes me a little bit full of rage, but what can I do? I have had company today and it aint gonna happen with a house full of toddlers.  I feel great minus the lack of energy and impending depression. Tram is good at making you feel numb and oblivious.  Reality bites, just like the movie. I am trying to stay positive and work on the house but it is sooo hard for me.  Hope tomorrow will be better. It does get better folks, I promise. I am just learning how to deal with raw emotion again and it is hard when the sadness sets in.  Here is to better days.  fight on warriors....it has to get better.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Nov 29, 2009
Well today was a lot better than yesterday.Took my tylenols and ibuprofen at 9am and had no pain for the rest of the day.Did not even look at the clock once to see if it was time for a pain pill...only to see if it was nearly closing time.Maybe chronic pain is not always all day long...I never gave it a try before because I always took my pain pills as soon as 4 hours came up.only lately have I even tried to miss doses and am finding that endorphins do kick in and i could probably be able to decrease my otc pain meds as well except for certain days when pain flares up.I do want to preserve my liver and kidneys.and avoid rebound painDid not even think of the opiates.Pain seems to come in waves and subsides and goes away and then I am fine again.Thanks for your concern Lori

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by gerty411411, Nov 29, 2009
hi y'all,  Thankyou Jesus my headache is finally gone.  Yesterday sucked  (uh oh is that a bad word?)  I decided today would just have to be better.  I willed it to be better.  Day #13 .  I can't beleive it!!!  

As far as energy levels go---There is no rhyme or reason.  I just go with it or try to.  I have found that 30-45 minutes of fairly intense cardio or some Metallica and/or Black Sabbath VERY LOUD  seems to get the old endorphins going.
Bellydancing of which I have been doing for about a year also gets the  blood flowing.

Looking forward to the christmas decorating this year.  

Take care all!!!

Love, gerty

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Nov 29, 2009
ds,   This place can be a little "slow" on weekends, but check back in tomorrow and others will come along for you.

Glad you seem to be past the acute withdrawal symptoms.   Yes, the depression, energy, fatigue, and scared anxiety stuff does linger.  

How long with these symptoms last?   The way I always figured it, I abused my body with tramadol for six long years.     My pat answer is "Weeks and weeks".   I think that somewhere about 90 days I realized that I was asymptomatic.  Some report continued healing for more than six months.   As long as one doesn't put another lovely little pill in their mouths, our amazing bodies have a chance to continue rebuilding that damage done over months and years ON the drug.

Don't expect every day to be better than the day before it.   Weeks may pass and then wam, a set back of symptoms.  This is what some describe as a recovery that is "non-linear"...


Gerty, glad to hear that your headache has subsided.  

Regards,  fred

Avatar universal
by Lori_MN, Nov 30, 2009
Fred!

Do we have a 1 year anniversary to celebrate with you tomorrow?  I snooped on your profile and it said tram free since 12-1-08.  Tomorrow is 12-1-09!  WOWWOWWOW!!!!!  Congrats!  Let's all shout out for Fred tomorrow!!

-Lori

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 30, 2009
I've been out of town since Wed and not posting.  I hate getting behind on posts.  Deetram, if you are still there, you might want to try different al-anon meetings or just try to think of the message rather than the "drug."  Al-Anon is really more about figuring out what you can do for yourself.  Addicts are very selfish and they really need to figure things out on their own.  He will probably come around, but you just focus on you.

I think I have 28 days tomorrow, although I need to check my tracker.  Feeling fine from the tramadol withdrawal, but still struggling with the Effexor taper.  I haven't gotten anywhere with it and have had to go back up. :(

Glad to see everyone!

Jenny

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by Maxx14, Nov 30, 2009
Hi. I joined this post a few months ago when I realized that I had to stop tramadol after about 8 months of using it. But I have not posted since. My usage has gone up to sometimes over 30 per day. Sometimes it is 20, and every now and then, particularly when I run out of pills, I take 4 or 5, but only for a few days. I am absolutely terrified now that my very good life is going to collapse around me. I am 40 years old and have a great job, a great marriage, a nice house, and a beautiful 2 year old little girl. I honestly cannot believe that I am not able to stop this - I am hugely goal-oriented and I go after what I want. But this is totally elusive. I stopped drinking when I became pregnant (I had a problem with alcohol, and before that, food) and have not had a desire to drink. Especially since I discovered Tramadol, which seems so much better to me. More energy rather than feeling drowsy after a couple of drinks. I seem even more clear-headed and I'm definitely more productive. It is scary how "happy" I think I've been while taking this drug. A very very bad part of this is that I owe my credit card company about $1,300 and I cannot seem to pay it down. My husband knows nothing (I have a separate business account that I use for these tramadol "transactions") and I am terrified that he will somehow need to look at my online bank statement. I know that he would ultimately help me and support me, but the thought of being "found out" really really scares me. I've also been fudging with my work hours (I bill by the hour) and adding on more hours that I've actually worked. So I am also deceiving my clients. I am sure that the FedEx guy is suspicious. Oh man, the sneaking and hiding the mailings of the pills - to my home, to my workplace - awful. The worst is when I look into my daughter's beautiful big brown eyes, they just bore right into me as if she knows what I am doing, and I am so so scared that I will ultimately harm her in some way, if nothing else than she will wind up with an addition like me. I have been trying to taper now since about May and I just cannot do it. I need help and I need a place like this where I am not alone, this is an extremely lonely and frightening situation. After I take 30+ pills I imagine waking up in the hospital and my whole life coming crashing down. I have done horrible, deceitful things that I never in a million years thought I would do, I am a good person, wife, and mother and friend. I am very caring and this is a completely selfish thing that I am doing. I put up a very good front, except that now I have lost about 15 pounds due to no appetite except for sodas and candy for some reason, and people have begun to comment on this and also the fact that I don't really eat much. I am really really really scared and so afraid that I cannot escape this. Today I took 8 pills this morning and I do not plan to take any more today. I am trying to go 1 day, 1 hour at a time, and try to go through the bad feelings (and the good ones too) without needing to take this horrible drug. Thanks - Maxx

Avatar universal
by Karen2010, Nov 30, 2009
HI, my name is Karen.  I started taking Tramadol over a year ago.  I came to this forum once and stopped for about 2 weeks then I had a relapse and have been on it every since (will be a year in January).  As many would suspect I have increased my doseage to some times 20+ a day.  Well, this Thanksgiving, I lost track of how many I was taking and I guess with the heat from the oven in my face (basting the turkey every 15min)...combined with the unusual high dose I had a seizure.

Now I am not prone to seizures at all.  I didnt have any warning and THANK GOD I wasnt driving with my daughter.  All is well now but not sure why after an entire year I now have a seizure.  Was it because I was taking so many?  I can't just "stop" due to the withdrawals but I want too.  I would like to try tapering.  However can any of you let me know if when you have a seizure does it mean you will always have them now or was it because I just took too many.  I usually NEVER take 20..I had just been popping them throughout the afternoon and lost track..that is my guess.  When I only take 8-10 a day I would think I will be ok.  Has anyone had any experiences like me.  Apparently I was just letting my dog out after basting the turkey and collapsed in doorway.  I would love to not take any more and even tried for the first 48hours but the doctors around here have no clue of Tramadol withdrawal and I was miserable.  I have to work and take care of a 14year old and 3 animals in my house. I am divorced and live alone.  I dont understand why doctors don't preseribe the bute... (spelling) drug they do for other opiate withdrawal.  I read on WICKI that Tramadol withdrawal is a good 7 days to the 3 normal opiates take.  

I can't believe I have progressed to 20 a day...but Im not taking that anymore...but just can't stop cold turkey either. I just don't want another seizure.  Any advice would be appreciated.  I feel strongly that I only seized due to the amount...as again, I have taken these for over a year and never had a seizure...I have taken a lot too...just on Thursday I did take more than I usually as I lost track of counting so that is why I think I seized..due to the quantity.

Avatar universal
by JG525, Nov 30, 2009
Maxx- I very much relate to your post, as I have jumped from one addiction to another.  It's difficult.  I'm just more prone to it than some people.  I've been off tramadol for almost a month and it's not nearly as bad as you think it will be.  It's hard, but it's worth it.  The deceit and stealing just go with addiction.  You can stop it now.  Don't beat yourself up.  You daughter is young.  You can beat this.  Do you have anyone you trust? A doctor, therapist, psychiatrist?  I got the help of a psychiatrist and my therapist and they were able to help ease the withdrawal.  As you can see from Karen's post, seizure is a very real issue.  anyway, welcome! Post however you feel here!

Karen- Have you talked to a doctor about seizures?  Some doctors will prescribe bupe for tramadol withdrawal, but then you could trade one addiction for another.    8-10 a day is still a lot. I hope someone can tell you about the seizure threshold.  Thank goodness, I was lucky and never had any.

Please stick around and keep posting.  You don't have to have stopped to post here.  I think of it like AA, where if you have the desire to stop, just keep posting.

Jenny

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by cake698, Nov 30, 2009
hello i posted on this site about 3 weeks ago and just wanted to give an update in the hopes that it will help someone.  i've been reading the posts since then and let me say thank you to everyone cus reading these really help when its not going so well.  Im not yet free from the hell cus i'm doing the taper method and trust me i cannot wait till i can say i have days weeks and months of freedom. cus thats what i'm going to have-- freedom.  freedom from the mind control that these pills have on you....how many do i have left, will i have enough money to buy them till i get paid next, do i have them on me, how many days till i get more, will i have enough during the holidays and so on. i have hurt the most important person in my life- my boyfriend- because of these stupid things.  he does not deserve to put up with the bullshi** that i'm making him go through.  im thankful that he is on my side and helping me when i told him the reason for my "you seem to be acting different since june"  i have delt with addiction for the past 8 years and i'm sick and tired of tacking on another year of being an addict i want to just be a recovering addict. all my other boyfriends i had before him didn't help cus they were all addicts themselves. anyways to maxx i must say for me that tapering has been the best way. i was taking just as many as you were plus some and tried to stop ct once after day 2 i relapsed. you still get the withdrawals like the mind control of wanting the feeling you get when you take a bunch at a time and the no sleep and slight discomfort. but i'm tapering slow also.  im down to 3 pills a day now and starting to break them in half.  tapering might draw out the sleep issues but i'm definatly not feeling like complete **** likewhen i tried quiting ct. i can still function and do things but just not at 100%  One thing that i had to do and trust me it was not easy was tell my boyfriend what was going on.  It took an unexpected weight off my sholders and i needed him to help me in the beginning to control my pills for tapering (i'm able to do it myself now. its hard but it makes me feel more power over them) Unless you feel that you can do this on your own then you can keep it a secret but i bet after you r clean you will still think about it or something will come up that brings the secret back.  Its better to to tell your loved one yourself then to let them feel that you couldnt turn to them for help. good luck to everyone and thanks again cake698

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by forget_me_not, Nov 30, 2009
Greetings, Warriors!

What a day it has been.  What a month it has been.  I made it through a broken hand without so much as a "whisper" from the tramadevil.  Made it through a chaotic Thanksgiving holiday with only a whisper or two.  It's amazing how much habit plays a role in our behaviors.  When the company started arriving and I knew I was going to have to juggle a thousand tasks while wearing a big smile despite my leg aches and sore hand, I knew.  The thought was always there somewhere.  Am I crazy?  No, but it sure felt that way at times.  I was discouraged.  I thought surely I was past all of that.  

This is my first holiday without tramadol in quite a few years, and it feels great now that I survived it unscathed.

Today was tough.  I had a huge job interview this morning, I mean really HUGE.  I want the job.  I need the job.  It's a position I have worked extremely hard for for many years, gone to school for for more than fifteen years.  And I got an interview and wouldn't you know it?  Major, major tramafog.  Woke up with relentless insomnia at 3am, so I got up and prepared some.  Went to the interview calm and ready to focus and really shine.  I am quite an achiever.  The questions were tough, but I expected them to be.  That doesn't scare me normally.  But today, oh boy.  My brain struggled to make the connections it needed to make to even comprehend the questions.  I remember so well...SO well...how "just one pill" used to be enough to cause all the neurons in my brain to fire in perfect, harmonious synchronization.  How I would be able to handle tremendous stress with grace and ease.  How I could come up with the most amazing responses when I was in a pressure cooker environment like a job interview. And there were moments today when I really thought to myself, "I just can't do this.  It's that simple.  I don't have it anymore.  I used to, but I lost it.  Period."  And my heart broke because I know -- I KNOW -- that my mental/cognitive capacities are seriously diminished, and it's because of what I have done to my brain.  It's because of the poison.  Nearly thirteen weeks have passed since I began the journey to healing.  But God gave me the opportunity to interview for this job today.  I didn't get to wait until six months had passed, or a year.  It was TODAY.

What's the lesson?  

I am so glad to see so many of you succeeding in your fights against this devil drug. Weeks and weeks, indeed, Fred.  You're so right on.  And I wouldn't give up for anything in the world.  I just wish "I" would come back briefly, during job interviews, at least.

Sigh.  Love and blessings to all.

~fmn



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by booba77, Nov 30, 2009
Maxx~your story plays out just like mine.  Today, however I am 31 days tram free.  I was up to 20~25 a day sneaking around having them shiipped to the ups store to hide the addiction.  I was on them 2 years.  I have a 4 year old daughter and have been on them half her life, buto more.  I hid my addiction and my coming clean from everyone except the people on this site.  I so badly want to tell my spouse but am ashamed of the debt I have left us with.  I cannot afford milk or juice or christmad or the mortgage.  it is really bad.  But i had enough and the people here really were the strength behind my quitting.  I have not faltered once and though I lack energy and am depressed cuz of the impending debt, no less, I am me and I am free from the devil trams.  I could not taper.  If i have them, i will take them and cannot ration so I went cold turkey.  It was hard, but it is what I had to do......it is better to taper to a lower dose i think though to avoid seizures.  Welcome to our forum.  we are here to help, and most of us have been there and some are still there.  

Avatar universal
by grandmagirl, Nov 30, 2009
9 mos. Tram free and $183.00 richer...

Long story short.

Last year for Christmas our family went to Disneyland in Ca. I took cash for the food and gift shops. Shopping was my hobbie when I was on Tram. I do remember wearing a darling little black jacket with zip up pockets...Had a great time riding all the rides( I was high as a kite)

This year for Thanksgiving I surprised my family with a trip to Seattle to visit my sister and her family...Money is a little tighter this year as things just cost more.

As I was getting ready to leave my sisters house Sat. to treat everyone to the movies I un- zipped a pocket on THAT same darling little black jacket and wondered what the heck is in here?...In my Tram fog of last year IN Disneyland I forgot that I had put extra cash in my zip up pocket...

9  mos. later Tram free and a $183.00 richer...


Peaceful wishes from California

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by booba77, Nov 30, 2009
Awesome find grandma girl!!!  FMN~sorry to hear bout the tramafog during the interview. I hope you get the job.  It sounds like you worked so hard. I used to be quite thr achiever before just settling for the first job that looked good, but it is a good job, and for that I am grateful. I really am looking to do something else tho.  goodnight warriors....dishes to do and laundry.

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by forget_me_not, Nov 30, 2009
Thank you, Booba.  What a crazy ride this is.  The interview went well overall, it's just that there was no denying how amazingly different I was in comparison with before.  I went from being pretty quick and sharp before tramadol to being even quicker and sharper, at times at least, with it.  Then now...well, dense tramafog advisory is definitely in effect.

Another brutal reminder of the damage this stuff does.

I'm doing really well overall, and most days I feel close to normal.  But the PAWS stuff...wow.  It's bad.  Today brought that into crystal clear focus.

I can handle the aching legs, the back pain, the insomnia even.  But man, losing my "mind"...really.  That's just very hard to accept.  I truly hope it's temporary.

Tough day for me.  I'm so glad to have this place to come to.  I don't know what I'd do.  Probably go to bed and cry.

Love to you all.

~fmn

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by Maxx14, Nov 30, 2009
Such nice comments here and a warm welcome, thanks! I'm actually going to bed tonight with a glimmer of hope that I can do this and that I am not a horrible person, which is how most of my days have ended lately. Even the "high" of Tramadol is not nearly what it was 1 year ago because I'm paranoid that someone will find out and also that I know now that being that way is really scary and I don't want to be there. I'd rather have the old me back, frustrations and anxieties and feelings and all, not this fuzzy person. Maxx

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by madtram, Nov 30, 2009
Welcome, Maxx & Karen, you are on to a really good thing here, we have pharmacists & other medical professionals, philosophers, first hand experiences & some very sensible advice.  If only we could withdraw for you, but humans are primarily motivated by fear of pain so the withdrawal experiences are a big part of the incentive to stay well away from tramadol once free of its clutches.

Karen, I have reviewed the studies on tramadol & seizure thresholds & no-one can tell you that you will be seizure free if you stay under a certain dose. There's no doubt that higher doses significantly increase the risk as does the length of time you have been on the drug as the metabolites build up in your system which may trigger seizures at lower doses.  In one study, the lowest dose associated with seizures for people with no other factors, was 500 mg.

The threshold is lower where people are also using alcohol or benzos or antidepressants, all of which can independently lower the seizure threshold or had more than 4 tramadol prescriptions.

I would not be taking chances, (you only need to have one seizure at the wheel), & would see a doctor about an anticonvulsant.  Meds like neurontin can be helpful through withdrawal anyway as they may help with the insomnia.

Cake, way to go, I hope you will soon reap the rewards of your committed approach.

FMN, I'm sorry your interview did not go as well as you would have liked & hope that you get another chance to impress them.  The brain thing is taking time for me also.  There are still days when the brain fog feels as bad as it ever was & I do feel permanently brain damaged at those times.  I am pushing myself to persevere with mental challenges that seem largely incomprehensible, (a big part of biostatistics), & my brain hurts more than my muscles after working out.

Thankfully, there are also small breakthroughs & the best evidence supports that our brains are indeed neuroplastic with the right mental stimulation.

Our bodies have to unlearn patterns of response that set in during, (in my case), long term tramadol use.  I still have occasional days, (usually pre-menstrually) when the extreme weakness & fatigue sets in, it terrifies me to think that it's all coming back  but my cells just have to unlearn this response to stress which apparently will take more weeks and weeks.

Strength to all warriors.


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by gerty411411, Dec 01, 2009
Good morning all,

Day #15 and the start of my first tram free month.  Had the best day yesterdeay with energy and clarity.
Welcome Maxx and Cake. We are all here to help you as best we can.  Just being here is a important step.

Happy anniversery Fred!!!!!

Love Gerty

Avatar universal
by desperate2getWell, Dec 01, 2009
I am right behind you Gerty, actually by just one day.  I wrote out this really long thought provoking post yesterday but luckily for all, the computer chose to freeze at that exact moment.  I didn't have much to add, just words of encouragement.  Hey, I actually played tennis yesterday for 30 minutes and made it to my night class, it was almost like a normal day.  I am feeling better and continue to stay on the St. Johns Wort.  It is probably placebo but I don't care.  It's not like I am going to be going through hell if I forget a dose, I won't need to get online and order more to get here in time.  Was it just me or did anyone wait til the last minute to refill those rx's?  I have a friend who has a T issue and goes through the same thing.  I am just SO HAPPY that I don't have to go through those feelings anymore.
Any ideas on the brain fog thing?  I wonder if people on AD's go through something similiar?  
Lots of homework to catch up on.  Love, healing to all,  Much Less Desperate and More Well on Day #14


Avatar universal
by JG525, Dec 01, 2009
FMN- I'm sure you did well at the interview.  Our need for perfection is what drives us to use a lot of times.  Or to escape that need.  At least for me.  It's annoying, but if it's meant to be, it will be.  If not, there could be an even better job around the corner!

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Dec 01, 2009
People withdrawing from antidepressants do go through the same withdrawal especially form effexor because the tramadol molecule is a cousin to effexor.However people who take antidepressants do not usually increase the dose on their own or take 20 antidepressants a day.This is the problem with tramadol because it has both antidepressant and pain relieving properties and no one probably thought that they were taking an antidepressant every time they took a tramadol for pain.Most antidepressants are taken once a day or in some cases twice a day and no more.Tramadol was taken all day long.No wonder people have problems stopping or even tapering.I think it is the antidepressant part that is the hardest to withdraw from.But yes...people have a hard time going off antidepressants and usually never go off them from what I have observed or are just changed to another one.I guess we really are a prozac nation.

Avatar universal
by nancy652, Dec 01, 2009
I've set up our advocacy site on a wordpress site. It is not meant to draw people from here, as this is the best place to receive support for your recovery.  Emily is famous throughout the lands as our muse for recovery...there is no adequte way to thank her. For those who would like to come on over and support a consumer advocacy group, pop over with the link below and leave a comment, or just visit. I'll try and send a personal invite to all those who have emailed me and been in touch. Fred and madtram, please come by. I would love to see you. I think the site will be easier for me to manage since I can scan and post materials. Thank you so much for your support for the journal site. I put the link on there as well. Let me know what you think.

http://nancy652.wordpress.com/2009/11/30/hello-world/


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by booba77, Dec 01, 2009
Happy anniversary Fred. we love you.

Avatar universal
by Karen2010, Dec 01, 2009
Hi, thank you for all who responded to my post.  I have a question to the women who have withdrawan from Tramadol.  When I was last here (last December or so)..I mentioned I had about 2 weeks off Tramadol...but about that time I started getting tremendous bloating in my abdomen...distention.  A few on this board at the time..one gal in particular I just can't remember her name had a serious issue with this too. She went to the doctor, took meds and everything.  I was wondering if that gets better over time?  Its not like normal distended stomache..its from having your nerves in your absomen numb for so long,,.not sure about any of you but when I am on Tram I pee very rarely and when i do very slowly.  When you go off your stomach muscles don't know what to do.

This sounds like no big deal but when i had it was incredibly uncomfortable.  Just looking for some good news that that gets better?  Also, for me anyway, the listnessness was another terrible side effect.  Of course, I started taking them again after 2 weeks but for me it was very, very hard and am looking for some success stories from women??

334144 tn?1423248271
by booba77, Dec 01, 2009
I feel kind of bloated but I thought I had just gained weight.  been off trams bout 31 days and got no energy and paws depression but otherwise okay.  I do feel like a fat tub of lard, probably cuz I have not been eating the healthiest.   FMN~ I too have the sore legs and back and paws depression that is hard for me, but i do feel better.  I am taking the tyrosine, sam e and b12 along with reg vitamins.  I just want energy without having to do rigorous cardio......like I said, I am a tub o lard....lol.  have a good day guys.

Avatar universal
by Karen2010, Dec 01, 2009
Hi, I just remembered the gals name from when I was on here awhile ago:  Emergee.  Is Emergee still around????  Emergee had repeated issues with restless leg and the horrible bloating...  Emergee, if you are still around I would love to hear how you are doing NOW?!!!!!!  My old name on here was Mercedes.  Some of you may remember me.

Avatar universal
by Elf_1977, Dec 01, 2009
I need to quit taking Tramadol. I have been taking 300-350mg / day for roughly a year, maybe a bit more.

My plan is to wean off slowly, but I can't decide if I should take 25mg less every two DAYS, or each WEEK.

Please advice...

and I'm scared sh*tless of all the symptoms I keep reading about.

I took 50mg less today than I normally do, and I already have mild aches, pains, and chills.  I am guessing this is only scratching the surface of how I'll feel soon.

Also, does anyone recommend going to their PCP to get their advice and do this under an Dr.'s supervision?

Thanks...worried...

-set

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by Maxx14, Dec 01, 2009
Feeling positive once again today. I've set up a strict taper schedule and am even writing it on my calendar in order to remind me to stick to it. I really think I can do it this time. I realize that all it takes is about :30 of complete quiet and self-awareness - even just sitting at my desk and taking a deep breath and saying to myself "Do you really want to take another pill?" And the answer is always "no." I do not want to be that fuzz person anymore. I want to be happy all on my own. And then after I do this, I feel stronger and safer and the craving does go away, it really does. There have been times when I took pills with my 2 year old daughter was standing right next to me and of course she reached for them and said "candy?" and looked at me inquisitively. What a horrible scene. How can I be doing this? I do not want this. -Maxx

Avatar universal
by Elf_1977, Dec 01, 2009
Also I'm wondering if I should slowly taper, or taper quickly, then do CT.

I am going to see my GP today.

I'm so scared :(

Avatar universal
by JG525, Dec 01, 2009
Pharma- I am currently tapering down on Effexor with my doctor's help and I can say that it is in fact very similar.  In fact, I find the Effexor discontinuation symptoms far worse than the tramadol.  SNRI withdrawal is one of the hardest things I've experienced.  It's no fun.

Jenny

Avatar universal
by hanginin, Dec 01, 2009
Hello everyone. I've been gone for a few day and didn't post but I see some new people here.  I am on day 40 today of going ct from about 3 1/2 years of tram. I have quit several times but relapsed after a few days. I was so sick of feeling embarrassed and guilty all the time and trying to hide this awful habit. It is truly a rough ride but its so worth it.  You will be back to yourself in just a few day and the energy will slowly come back.  I used this forum like a life preserver the first few days and for everyone who is having a hard time you will find compassion and understanding here.
Keep fighting and don't give up.
Hanginin

Avatar universal
by grandmagirl, Dec 01, 2009
Fred..Your the man...Happy..Happy...Anniversary...

Peaceful wishes from California

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by forget_me_not, Dec 01, 2009
Hi, Elf!  First, your fear is understandable, and given the tough time we have all had getting off this stuff, warranted I would say.  Let your fear help you.  For me, my anger at the fear was what motivated me to quit.  I was sick and tired of feeling scared, of living in fear of the withdrawal (which, for me, didn't start when I quit -- it started way before due to the insidious tolerance this drug creates).  The fear is just a reminder that you are up against a tough opponent.  But you CAN win.

The question about tapering is really a personal judgment call.  Many folks here have had good luck with a gradual taper.  Cutting back by 25mg every few days is probably a good place to start.  Do you have someone to help you with the taper?  Some report really good results having someone to help them and serve as a partner in the process.  Willpower is obviously really important in a taper, too.  I am sure some others here can give you better advice on this point, as I quit cold turkey (again -- a judgment call).

Welcome to the best healing community I've ever been part of.

best regards,
~fmn

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by forget_me_not, Dec 01, 2009
I just got a call from about yesterday's interview...and I am a finalist for the position!  I meet with the president of the organization Friday morning at 10:00 for the next round of interviews!!!

Holy smokes!  I am shaking so bad I can barely type.

Thank you guys for the support.  I thought this one was lost.  Onward!

blessings,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by Elf_1977, Dec 01, 2009
Thanks forget me not! And congrats on your interview! :)

Just got back from the Doc, and this is the taper plan she came up with for me to TRY. She said she has never had anyone report a physical dependence on tramadol, so she was surprised, but she was very understanding and sympathetic and optimistic that I could do this relatively pain-free, though I am skeptical.

Can anyone take a look at this and see if it sounds reasonable:

Date Morning Night Total Mg
12/01/09 3 3 300
12/02/09 3 3 300
12/03/09 3 3 300
12/04/09 3 2 250
12/05/09 3 2 250
12/06/09 3 2 250
12/07/09 2 2 200
12/08/09 2 2 200
12/09/09 2 2 200
12/10/09 2 1 150
12/11/09 2 1 150
12/12/09 2 1 150
12/13/09 1 1 100
12.14.09 1 1 100
12.15.09 1 1 100
12.16.09 0.5 0.5 50
12.17.09 0.5 0.5 50
12.18.09 0.5 0.5 50

I will report back everyday , or most days, on symptoms.

Avatar universal
by Elf_1977, Dec 01, 2009
Sorry - the columns should read "date" ; "morning # pills" ; "night # pills" ; "total mgs"

1059641 tn?1277525976
by forget_me_not, Dec 01, 2009
That seems reasonable, Elf.  You might want to consider, at the end, going from 1 and 1 to 1 and .5, then down to .5 and .5, and eventually to .5 once daily before jumping off.  It's totally going to depend on how you manage the withdrawal symptoms that are likely to come around during the process.  If you need to go more slowly, you can always decrease by 25mg at a time rather than 50.  Most important is that you do it in a manner that you can handle physically and emotionally.

So hard to believe that so many doctors still aren't aware of the addictiveness of this drug.  The physical tolerance and discontinuation symptoms are so incredibly severe.  It looks like the truth is going to come from people just like us who live to tell about it.  I have learned soooo much here.  Hopefully, prescribers will eventually get to this important knowledge, too.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.  Best of luck with your taper!  If we can help you, we will.

peace,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by yllopcat, Dec 01, 2009
Hello all...Polly here:)
As promised I am sticking with you all. After reading over many, many posts, I am simply grinning a sinister kodak moment smile--like the cat that swallowed the canary. I can always relate to you all.
Newway: Great job!! From 20 down to 3. AWSOME!! I had a couple slips with the anxiety meds, ( well prescribed) but it was a slip in my mind. And I always look soo fprward to your posts. You have been tapering since I went Cold Turkey on September 24th.. I think going slowly is impressive. I think I may have dealt with the emotional stuff better if I had done what you are doing!! I am no longer dependent on any of that garbage!!! NO DEPENDANCY!! But that does not mean its not hard.
You HANG IN THERE!!
I had a terrible last couple of days, mainly because I fight within myself. I am two months also--past probably the 2nd worst breakup of my life. And although I am past the shock of having to walk away. And past the initial depressive-stuckness. I still have Mondays like yesterday. I romanticize what it would be like if I could pop some pill to escape the emotion. I get so angry, sad, down and all these things I feel not only will I somehow manage to screw up what you all helped me to do. But that Im doomed tpo attract-strange, insecure, crazy people for partners. Its just not LINEAR. Is it??
I do have more days in a row where I am well, um......Evened out in my mind, heart and soul. But it takes work, and I try to never forget how far Iv come. And even a slip does not mean I am where I was months ago.
That means you too, and everyone else who is fighting!!
I remember 12 days after Cold Turkey day --and well, I thought it would never end. I would sit on my bed in some physical, crazy pains, that I thought were never going to end. And even though the physical piece is finally done. ( most part) Now I work on, deal with, and fight myself to deal with my emotions. I was at my bible study on this Sunday, and I really felt blessed to have a chance. Even so... Finding the information, the tools the support ( like you guys) to learn to accept life, ( FRED)___ like they say in AA. "taking life on lifes terms" ..well, RUNNERGIRL is very precocious and rebellious at times. I know I will be working on this all my life. Its my DAD in me.....I cant beat it out with a stick!!!
But I hope and pray to use my energy, my writing, my running, my hopes and things to help someone. Also to help myself, I have been trying to work on some basic things now. Like re-vamping my resume. New training, ( running) also, communicating more effectively, like I went to my first ever, Narcotics anonomous meeting. I dont really like them. But it helps me with, Um....Communication things actually. And setting boundaries, and taking time to focus on how I will live..HOW I WILL LIVE>
I want to learn to just be. This is hard.
LILLY: Good to hear from you too... I have been reading your posts and you are an inspiration. I enjoy hearing about "how" you handle some things. YOU ARE VERY CREATIVE!!
I am trying to become more so.
I know that escaping those AWFUL!!! Tramadol pills was the best thing Iv done for myself in a long time. When I broke up with my boyfriend--it sort of underplayed, and overshadowed all my hopes and hard work.. Im trying to be good to myself.
Its hard because as a crazy runner type my tendency is to run my self ragged. Beat myself up. We all have to work on this.
Hope can come from understanding, I just have to ( as we all do )
Never give up.
Keep getting up at 6am to do my mile repeats in the fog LOL.
Pray.
Do the work,
And help others along the way..
Good luck everyone!!!
I placed in my first race a couple weeks ago. Ran around a----5:20 mile on the first round... Not bad for 39 eh..LOL
Polly...
Cheers..

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Dec 02, 2009
Hello Tramadol Warriors!!!

Lori, Madtram, grandmagirl  and others, thanks for wishing me a happy one year tramadol "birthday".   I knew it was about this time laast year that I stopped, but yes, the days do fly.  I hope to have some free time nextweek to post more, but for now:

Polly, it's always good to hear from you.   I have tivo set for Thursday night's "Civil War" between Oregon and OSU.   You won't like who I am rooting for, but I have been a big Mike Riley fan for a long time and besides, as a long SUFFERING  Husky, I just can't bring myself to cheer for Eugene U.  I love you still tho.

Karen aka Mercedes, I remember you.  emergee was the first person here a year ago who sent me a "note" and may have saved my life.  I haven't seen her around in months and as I recall, she had had an unrelated cardiac event with possible surgery in the Spring.   Suggest that you go back to the "Day 45" original thread where I expect you will find her if you wanted to send her a pm.   I also recall someone by the name of Suzipen complaining of being bloated during recovery.   Haven't heard from here in months either.  

I have an opinion about tramadol users.  Everyone of us will stop this drug one way or another...at some time or another...on our own terms or terms this drug imposes on us.  

Before I arrived here, I was scared to death that my time/place for stopping might be outside my control...like...um...my demise.   Once I found this place and heard that others were as dependant on trams as I was, once I found that other people had beaten this drug if they were willing to do war against the drug, I just figured that I needed to do this for myself THEN, on my own terms.

Maxx, Please, you are not a horrible person whether or NOT you stop taking this drug.   Keep hanging out here and let us know you are doing, ok?   Those things you fear in your life  will become right again ONCE you defeat the tram.  As much as possible, focus on the WAR not fears.  Click on my icon and read some of my early journal entries.  Read Emilys as well.

I am a frightened little boy inside, NOT of strong inner strength, who just had the good fortune one day to believe that what I had considered to be IMPOSSIBLE all those years, just might become POSSIBLE.  

When anyone starts this journey, it is entirely natural to ask things like "when will..."..."how much longer..."   "will I ever sleep again?", etc. and I needed as much reassurance as the next person in those early days.  But what I found for myself was that if I could just stay focused on the moment, moments eventually turned into hours.  And before long, I had 24 hours.   And eventually, those tiny moments turned into a few days. By that time, I had an investment that I was not willing to repeat or give up.  

Many people  give up the fight just before the miracle of recovery happens.   Any one of us who has run either "really low" or completely out of pills before, knows what withdrawal is like.  What I didn't know was that that acute withdrawal wouldn't last forever.   4-6 days tops for the worst.  

After I got my Yamaha V-Star (motorcycle) a few years ago I rode it to an AA meeting one night and a friend was admiring it.  "I didn't realize you liked Yamahas" I asked.   (He was a HD guy) .   He responded by saying, "I just like motorcycles of any kind".

I said that to say this...I appreciate anyone who is able to get off this drug.   It makes little difference to me personally whether you are able to STOP through going cold turkey, by managing a gradual taper, or if you go to a ************** center.  What works for one, may not work for another.  I like to see x-tramadol users of any kind.

But any way you look at it, beating this drug isn't for the faint of heart.   I always become concerned when I hear someone looking for any easy way off this drug.   During my year hanging out with you guys and after reading nearly 4,000. posts, I cannot recall ANYONE posting here who has ever made it tram free without the fight of their lives.

I have seen MANY in the course of this past year who have stocked up on Thomas Recipe ingredients.  I have nothing against preparing ones self, but I do have concerns when I hear people express that by stocking up on supplies, they expect to find that easy way out.  Most I have observed in this group bail after the first few nights of insomnia and flu like symptoms.   They will never know how close they might have been if they could have anticipated the pain that naturally attends withdrawing from this drug.

I probably took as much immodium AD, vitamins, and Hylands Restful Legs, etc. as anyone that first week.   But I know that there are two things are not included in the "Thomas Recipe" which are critically important.  HOPE and DETERMINATION.

Any way you choose it, there is no painless, easy way out.   And whether a newcomer decides to taper slowly or to go c/t, it will require 110% of everything you have got to beat this drug.   If you don't feel you can dedicate 110% of every ounce of strength that you have to defeat this, do yourself a favor and don't even try now.  If you are still ALIVE a year from now and have that 110%, come back THEN and give it a go.    I am as serious as a heart attack.    Because rhonestly, there is just no easy way out of this mess we find ourselves in.  

But like I have said before, it really is no big deal.

It's just a matter of life or death.

Courage Strength and love to you all,

fred

Avatar universal
by howcouldiknow88, Dec 02, 2009
Hey, everyone. I'm new here. I recently posted my story in the basic addiction forum. Long story short; I'm a 21-year-old tramadol addict. I have been on this drug since I was 15. I'm really getting sick and tired of counting pills every month! Yeah - I'm mad at my addiction right now!

I discovered this place in an act of desperation. I ran out a little early (big surprise) and can't get my refill until December 4th. That's what, 2 days? As you know it's going to feel like an eternity. It's 3:47 AM right now, my last tramadol dose was 10 AM yesterday so I'm beginning to feel the withdrawal. Took some codeine at 2:00 AM, but the relief is already almost gone! This is why I have always prefered tramadol over the other opioids. I'm not sure if I will take anymore codeine today or not. It does bring relief for an hour, followed by weaker tramadol withdrawal for 5 hours. Regardless, the tramadol cravings are still there.

I have gone cold-turkey before awhile back. Made it 13 days. But didn't really have a choice. I would really like to just do cold-turkey now. It's a prime time for me to due to work layoffs. But I know I'll be at the pharmacy as soon as they open Friday! What makes it all worse is I have a 3-month-old daughter now. Feels very shameful that I know I won't be able to be "all there" for her due to withdrawal. But feeling sorry for yourself doesn't help,I'm sure. My fiance knows about my tramadol dependency, but she just doesn't understand how severe the withdrawal can be. She doesn't know I ran out a couple days early. I'd rather her not know, too. I'll just have to try my best to hide it until Friday. I'm reaching out to all of you! Your stories are so insipirational. And as bad as this sounds, knowing that there people out there going through the same thing makes me feel so much better. I guess that's normal.

I'm going to try to get some sleep now. It may be last good sleep for 2 days. It's going to hurt so bad. I need you guys. I used to be stronger than this. The withdrawal is a lot worse than it used to be. Thanks for the support!

BTW, I take 4 to 4 and 1/2 a day. 200-225mg.

Avatar universal
by Karen2010, Dec 02, 2009
Fred, I just wanted to thank you for your post.   Yes, I am the old Mercedes and I can tell you that this whole thread is a God send.  Thank you for tirelessly posting and offering such encourgement all this time you are better.  You and EMily are AMAZING!!!!!  I do want to stop.   I am terrified of being sick.  I was briefly in withdrawal at the hospital when I had to go in after my seizure  but was able to get out before it became an issue.

I would still love to hear from a woman who was taking as many as 20 (up to atleast) for several months to over a year and now is tramadol free.  I think (personally) it is harder for women as we also have all the hormonal stuff to deal with too.  I am not dismissing what a man goes through but for me I would love to hear from a woman that has gotten over the hump with this and would like to know how she feels?  

How long does it take to have energy and not be bloated?  For me the flu like symptoms stayed with me intermittently the entire 2 weeks I was off last year..so I know this is not going to be easy.  Ever since the seizure I am more panicked now and so afraid to take too much again.  I dont want to be in the car or anything with my daughter.  I also now feel the withdrawal more when it didnt seem like I noticed it as much.  I guess because now I am paranoid.

Anyway, for me, I would love to hear from women who are now feeling their energy back and feel ok after withdrawing from Traqmadol.  Also, although I know this is not as important, for me, Tramadol made me thinner (I was never heavy..I think 135 was the heaviest at 5'8) but now I can wear a zero..Im not as hungary and when I do eat I think Tram makes my metabolism more aggressive.  For the women out there, do you go back to normal again with the weight..which I don't mind...I just worry some times it has messed up my metabolism to where my body may freak out when I stop and do the opposisite?  I have always walked 4miles a day and taken care of myself just sometimes it does scare me going off this thing what it will do.

Any success stories right now with women will help.  Thanks ..I do plan to taper (kinda already doing it ) but will more aggressively after Christmas as I need to go out of town for Christmas with my daughter and do not want to be withdrawing over there.  Anyway, thanks for listening.  :)

Avatar universal
by JG525, Dec 02, 2009
Karen- I felt better after a week.  I'm still going through some depressive phases, but I think that is situational and also due to my Effexor taper, not tramadol.  I never had the stomach things that you talk about.  I felt less desire to eat on tramadol, but I'm not sure I lost a lot of weight.   I haven't gained since stopping though and it's been 28 days.  

One thing for me was getting my thyroid straightened out.  I think it's possible that my years of alcohol, tramadol and smoking abuse could have triggered the Hashimoto's Thyroiditis that I have.  It's an autoimmune thing and they aren't sure why people's bodies attack them like that.  I theorize that it could have been triggered by my substance abuse, but who knows.

Anyway, for me the taper was harder than withdrawal.  I felt better when I stopped.  I'm already on klonopin at night and I think that really helped.  Sleep is such a great healer.

Hang in there...sorry I don't have much more to contribute.

Jenny

Avatar universal
by Karen2010, Dec 02, 2009
Hi Jenny, thank you..your post does help.  Just knowing another "gal" in this with me helps.  You mentioned the taper was harder than the withdrawal...did you go CT or how are you doing it?  Just curious.  I thought I could taper no problem but I just took 4 this morning...my afternoon does isnt until 3p and I already feel bad.  I think the last month or so I was taking them at random..thinking it was just "situational" for that and I never considered taking more than my normal 8 a day..but now 8 a day seems so light.  Anyway, I think getting off these will be the best thing for me.  

Avatar universal
by Elf_1977, Dec 02, 2009
Thanks forget me not. Actually, I think I am going to adjust the taper schedule to 25 mg less every 2 weeks. I just think that will be easier to handle.

I have gone fairly easily from 350mg to 300 mg/day... only moderate chills throughout the day... does anyone think this is a good sign for my taper, or will it get really bad at some point anyway?

Thanks for all the help/advice!

Avatar universal
by JG525, Dec 02, 2009
Karen- Are you taking more in the afternoon?  I did a pretty rapid taper.  I was taking about 5-8 a day depending on what I had.  I reduced that to 4, then 3 (50mg) a day over a week or two.  Once I got to 150mg, I felt so blah and wasn't getting anything from the tramadol, so I stopped.  I had my mother help me taper, so I really couldn't take more.  There is no way I could have done that alone.  I told my mom and my husband and I also started seeing a psychiatrist.  The more people I told, the easier it became.  not everyone can do that though.

The psychiatrist also gave me clonidine at night to take with my klonopin.  It lowers BP and can help with withdrawal.

Jenny

Avatar universal
by Elf_1977, Dec 02, 2009
Revised taper schedule.... 25mg fewer every week.... I hope this works...if I have horrible symptoms, I will stretch out to 2 or 3 weeks.

Anyone else started with 350mg/day and tapered this slowly and felt OK throughout the process and after? Anyone still gone through hell with this? Please share.

Date ; #Pills Morning; #Pills Evening; Total mgs
12/01/09 3 3 300
12/02/09 3 3 300
12/03/09 3 3 300
12/04/09 3 3 300
12/05/09 3 3 300
12/06/09 3 2 300
12/07/09 3 3 300
12/08/09 3 2.5 250
12/09/09 3 2.5 250
12/10/09 3 2.5 250
12/11/09 3 2.5 250
12/12/09 3 2.5 250
12/13/09 3 2.5 250
12.14.09 3 2.5 250
12.15.09 3 2 200
12.16.09 3 2 200
12.17.09 3 2 200
12.18.09 3 2 200


Avatar universal
by Elf_1977, Dec 02, 2009
Also, I didnt complete it, but it goes on like this until it tapers off to zero obviously...

Avatar universal
by newway, Dec 02, 2009
Boy - miss a day or two and the posts pile up!

Fred - you are a big reason this thread is so sucessful - we need those who have beaten the evil thing to stick around.  A year!!
That is fantastic.  I am a Honda fan when it comes to my motorcycles - but like your friend so aptly put it "I just like motorcycles"  When I first started with AA - I thought the only way it worked was you show up, stop drinking - and things get better! lol  Knowledge through experience may be painful, but it is well earned knowledge.  I have slipped many times in my struggle to overcome my addictions - the one thing I learned is that while many slip, it is those that keep trying that eventually succeed.  This isn't a task we undertake and it is done - it's a process, a journey that has many ups and downs.  Progress, not perfection!  I have learned as much from my slips, mistakes, huge disasters as I have from my sucesses.

Polly - Your post kinda sums up my whole philosophy right now - brush yourself off and keep going!!  It has been over 2 decades since I have "felt" life.  Dealt with the difficult stuff without having an escape - a bottle to turn to a pill to take - that in the short term made it manageable - in the long run - it robbed me of 2 decades of my life.  So now I face many of the same battles you do - how to deal with relationships, stress, change -clean and sober.  One of the worst things I have realized going through all of this is that while I have been avoiding all of the negative stuff, I have also been numbing out all the positive.  The only thing that brough me pleasure or relief was the drug. Hang in there - use that fire in you to keep moving forward.  
Way to go with placing in a race!  

Elf and Karen - I have been tapering for almost 4 months now.  I was taking over 25 pills a day and am now down to 2 - yes 2 !!.
I really did not have a plan - I just started cutting back - I would wait to feel okay before I went down any more.  At the begining I could drop about 1 pill a week and just feel semi crappy - I was cold, restless, irritable stomach, mild headache.  I then went through a bit of a temper tantrum and dropped a lot at once - I just wanted this stuff out of my system - and it seemed to make complete sense to me to drop down to 3.  Not a good move in some ways - very ill for 5 days - basically I went through CT.
I also did have a seizure,  Thankfully, I was able to convince my partner not to call an ambulence - our deal was that if I had another one - the call was being made.  It was not the first seizure I have had while on tram - but the other ones were while I was still on a very high dose.  I felt terrible scaring the hell out of my partner and realize that if I could have continued slow and steady I may have avoided the really nasty stuff.  Why did I stay with 3?  I tried CT about a year ago - I was at the 20 plus range then as well.  The physical stuff was horrible - but the emotional stuff for me was brutal.  I fell into a deep, dark depression.  Thoughts that were not my own, nightmares - I was fighting myself from jumping infront of a bus.  So that was it - I went back to the evil pills.  So the idea of going CT scares the heck out of me - again - in my mind - keeping the 3 pills a day would keep the depression at bay - I could still taper slowly off them.  
So I am actually at 2 per day right now - I was going to stay at 3 until after the holidays - but once again - patience is not my strong suit.  The major withdrawal symptoms from my big jump (from 15 to 3) have subsided - I now feel like I have a minor case of food poisoning - and cannot be far from a bathroom after I eat anything!  I have a constant headach, body aches and my anxiety is at the medium level.  Sleep is elusive, and my energy is low -  But my mood is not too bad - I have good days and bad days - but I am not depressed.
Like Fred has said - we all seem to experience different things, yet some things are very consistant.  A taper may make the symptoms last longer, but they may be millder so you can function.  If you are unsure - start with the taper - see how you feel. But the chance of relapsing are higher if you still have tram around - so if you have someone that can hold them for you it may help.
Whatever you decide - keep reading and posting.  We expect nothing from you - we are all here to get and give support - nothing more.

Hang in there.

Avatar universal
by Karen2010, Dec 02, 2009
Hi Jenny, I was taking about 8 a day...4 in the morning and then 4 between 3-5:30p.  Nothing after 5:30p.  But now I am off that schedule and didnt realize it would be so hard to get back to that.  I took all 8 all ready before 10:00a this morning.  I think I need to get stable first (some how) to a schedule of some sort then i will taper.  I made the mistake of starting to take a couple here and there past the 5:30p till I was taking close to 20 a day (I think).  I say I think as I don't really know how many I actually ended up taking.  Now I am keeping track.

So it looks like I am taking more than you were.  But kudos to you for stopping.  

One question on the Clonodine.  How much do you take of that and when do you take it?  I have never had a blood pressure problem.  The doctor in the emergency ward did give me some Clonodine when I had the seizure as I told him about my withdrawal.  He only gave me about 6 pills so I dont think he realizes the extent of Tram withdrawal.  But I said I tried to not take any more tramadol for the first two days but caved in.  The Clonodine helped me sleep at first then I felt unusually weak. that could have been normal withdrawals or because of that?  Not sure if that helped me like I hoped.  I will try again when I go cold turkey eventually...I will not turn away any "help" when it comes to withdrawal.  lol

Avatar universal
by desperate2getWell, Dec 02, 2009
Karen,
I went through the bloat thing right after Thanksgiving dinner and was so miserable I just had to laydown and lay low!  I have also noticed facial swelling.  But like you said, after my years of feeding myself Tramadol and shutting down my GI system, there are bound to be spells as our body tries to reach homeostastis.  I thought at first it might be the vitamins, but then I noticed that whereas before I was the perfect "road trip" partner (never had to stop to tinkle), now I need to stop every two hours or so.  Also, I am ingesting large quantities of liquids, little sugar.  Also a weird thing yesterday and this am:  I woke up and felt sick to the point that I threw up.  No stomach cramps or anything like that, thank God.  Just keep your diet light, and instead of three big meals, eat five really small ones throughout the day.  Don't forget to hydrate!  Keeps our bodies able to rid ourselves of these poisons.
One more thing I have noticed and that's by keeping my mind positive and occupied and taking small breaks through the day, I am getting through this better than I thought.  A little sun and lots of music.  I hear that song by 30 Seconds to Mars "The Kill" and totally relate it to Trams.  I can't get all the lyrics but what he does sing with great feeling is:  "I Am Finished With You"
THank you all for your posts.  I am so happy for you FMN and the job interview.  I wonder if while we were taking Tramadol, we just thought we were calm, composed and together - my family has told me that is not how I came across.  They described it as more like I had a coldness in my eyes, like a part of me had checked out.
Everybody sounds good.  I hope the taper method works.  I personally have absolutely no self-discipline in that regard, so I had to jump CT after four days of 4 - 3- 2 - 1.  The average dosage for me was 6 per day but after surgeries, I had taken up to 12 in a day.  I had cancer so the doctors were happy to have me on these instead of "addicting narcotics".  So, no more cancer last time I was checked and no more pain.
Gerty, I figure we are at about the exact space in our jump off the tram.  Sounds like you are in medicine too, like me.  Hope you are feeling great, at least a bit better.  No energy here lately but not to tothe point that I would replace it with anything chemical or harmful.  Loads of green tea and coffee though.
Pharm, do the drug companies have to disclose that these AD's can cause, rather will cause,  acute withdrawal symptoms?  Is this another way for them to keep us all chained to expensive medications that are difficult to stop even if you quit needing them?  One way or another, it all seems about the money!
Wishing you all a beautiful day on your road to recovery.  Happy to be joining you, I feel like I am in good company.  

Avatar universal
by Karen2010, Dec 02, 2009
Newway, I think I can relate to you the most.  At 25 a day, my guess is what I was about taking..atleast the night of the seizure.  The seizure scared me to death.  You mentioned you had a couple...all were at high doses.  What concerns me is I have nibbled these Trams many nights not even counting...Im sure I had as many if not close before and did not seizure.  Im trying to figure out if it was the amount or something in combination ...I was checking the turkey every 15min and the hot blazing heat on my face could have provoked ...(ie. temp change).  Not sure.  

Any advice to what causes the seizures would be helpful. I just don't want to take anything close to that again as I do not want to risk my precious 14 year old daughter being in the car with me or something.  God forbid it happen in the car?! ...UGH!!

I hope I never have one again...I didnt think I was prone to them..never had them before in my life..I dont even have allergies...

Anyway, thank you for detailing your situation...going from 25 to 3 a day..WOW!  I know what you mean about tapering though..the little I have done in past..I can see why some people prefer the CT...its almost like tapering you are "pro-longing" the misery..atleast after CT misery its over.  Nothing to have to "do again" down the line.   But with me this damn Tram doesnt seem to leave my system...as I said I had a good 14 days the last time and still had chills, body aches, restless body...like the real bad flu.

I would love to hear more on you experience the first few days when you cut back...so I can prepare.  Also, if you were able to work at all....and please don't leave out any good experiences...I thrive on encouragement more than anything.  Reading the pages where you all say your doing ok makes me feel not so scared.  Thanks.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Dec 02, 2009
What causes the seizures is the high levels of serotonin and noradrenaline and probably dopamine in the brain.This is caused by high doses of tram or a combination with other antidepressant drugs or even cold meds with decongestant in them.Tram has an effect on the serotonin and noradrenaline in the brain exactly like effexor and that is what makes it so hard to quit suddenlyPeople have to treat tram withdrawal like a withdrawal from both opiates and snri antidepressants.That is why the withdrawal is so prolonged.Your own natural brain chemicals have to come back and that takes time.It is the lack of these brain neurotransmitters that causes the depression and other symptoms.

1025791 tn?1259939556
by Maxx14, Dec 02, 2009
Karen and Newway, I believe I relate to both of you the most. Karen: I too take these horrible pills in groups of 4 for some reason. I'm now at least taking them no more than 2 times per day - morning and night. I have NOT taken any after about 5 as well, because if I do, I just keep going until I get myself really messed up and afraid I took too much and am going to die. Then sleep  doesn't come easily and when it does, I wake up with a very bad headache. So that was up until Monday. The past three days I've been taking 8 pills in the morning and 8 in the early evening. And miraculously, no more than that! I have set up a tapering schedule but only for the current day and the following day which helps me focus only on the current and present. I do want to be down to 4 a day by this weekend, or even 3 if possible. This posting site is really helping me. I see so many with recovery time here and they are so inspiring, I want to be there too so badly and I don't want to come to the site one morning and have to admit that I relapsed. I've done that so many times, I've tried to stop many many times. I want this to be it. Thanks for the help. Newway - I've had such a hard time admitting to myself that I am an addict. I just don't want to acknowledge that it has happened to me, that I am different in some way and immune to being an addict. I think I'm finally getting there, but it is hard to say that you are an addict, that you use a substance to escape the uncomfortable and bad things in your life rather than dealing with the feelings as they come up. But we all know that this is the key to recovery. Going through the feelings. Thanks, Maxx

Avatar universal
by Karen2010, Dec 02, 2009
Hi Maxx14, thank you for your post.  You are exactly like me at this point.  I commend you for your honesty and the desire to cut back so aggressively.  For me, I just need to get a "schedule" again and then I will do what you are doing..taper.  One thing I would caution is to not try to be too aggressive too fast...as long as you are making progress..your making progress.  I hear the slow way is best anyway.  So don't feel bad if you decide to extend the taper out more.  YOu are doing better than me though so I will watch your progress the most since we are so alike.  Thank you for posting and look forward to your continued posts and success.

Avatar universal
by Elf_1977, Dec 02, 2009
Thank you karen....can you look at my taper schedule above and tell me based on that, what you think my symptoms may be, how bad they might be, and how long they might last? I am so scared.

I know it's different for everyone, but if you could let me know what you predict, it would help.

Also, I hope the chance of having a seizure is LOW if I taper according to the plan above????

Avatar universal
by JG525, Dec 02, 2009
Karen- I never took 4 at a time because I never had enough! LOL I think 2 at a time was the most I could take.  thankfully, it never occured to me to order online, so I didn't have to stop that when I quit.  I had a prescription and I took them from my mom, which is awful, but that's what addicts do.  For me, the SNRI quality, as Pharma mentioned, was the appeal.  The energy.  I've always had an issue with fatigue and this helped, but it stopped helping.  I wonder if your seizure threshold would be any higher if you spaced them out?  Or maybe to stop, you could start cutting one off each dose?  

I would imagine that the thought of stopping is causing you to take more and seek that "high" because you know it may be stopping soon.  That's how it was for me with Tramadol, alcohol, smoking.  Everything I've given up.  I remember when I was quitting smoking, I would smoke a whole pack the night before because I just wanted to store it up!  

Do you have anyone you trust that could help with a taper?

My psychiatrist gave me very low dose clonidine (I don't have blood pressure problems either).  I think it's 0.1mg? I only take it at night.  He said it can cause dizziness, but I never noticed.  Withdrawal can cause your BP to go up and clonidine should help with that and anxiety.  My Klonopin at night saved my butt though.  I slept much better than most.  I think the clonidine helped with the RLS too.

If you can taper to 3 pills a day like I did, you might be able to stop more easily.  I try to do everything around a weekend.  Right now, I'm working on an Effexor taper.  I'm at 162.5mg, a mix of XR and IR, and tomorrow I will drop 37.5mg XR.  Sounds like a lot to me, so if needed I'll add in an IR 25 for a day.  The Effexor taper is taking much longer and is really more painful, for me, than the tramadol was.  Maybe it's a combination?

Jenny

Avatar universal
by Karen2010, Dec 02, 2009
Elf, I have no idea on your taper schedule as I have not had much experience tapering and my first seizure was this past  Thursday.  I have never siezed before so have no idea how to advise you to prevent.  I do know I was  not tapering when I had the seizure I was taking a high dose.  Im sorry I can't be more help but maybe someone else can on this board to your taper schedule.  Looks good from what I can see atleast..I heard cutting back .25mg a week was a wise way to do it or every 2 weeks.  That would be my only suggestion is go slow.

334144 tn?1423248271
by booba77, Dec 02, 2009
try avisg on the taper schedules.  she is a pro.  I feel good today.  today is day 33 and though depressed bout being poor, i feel darn good.  there is hope folks.  if you can get passed the first 14 days of hell, you will be fine.  Maybe 33 days will be it for me, but I am still taking it day by day.  Thanks for the support here.  I owe my life to this place, because with the trams I would have kept upping my doses until I died.  I love you guys.

599071 tn?1300072302
by madtram, Dec 02, 2009
Elf, you will be fine with your taper.  Seizures are very rare at your dose level & only occur when people are also taking antidepressants at the same time.

The big risk of seizure is at high doses & I am concerned about those of you who are unsure about how many you are taking as sudden changes in serotonin levels are very risky.  You need to factor in that tramadol has active metabolites that are stored by your body for much longer than the primary drug.  Metabolites are the chemical ingredients tramadol breaks down into & they remain acting on your brain for a period even after you stop taking the pills.

It's not as simple as saying I had x less pills so the tramadol chemicals have also dropped linearly.  The metabolites are still active & if you have been on a high dose for any length of time, you will have a greater store of metabolites.

As Pharma has said no-one takes antidepressants at anything like these dosages, we are in unchartered waters here.

If you are on a high dose & have already had a seizure, please don't rely on guesswork.  Every time you make significant  increases back up from a lower dose you are at risk, this is what the medical science has shown us.

I could say I don't want to scare you but I do.

Avatar universal
by Karen2010, Dec 02, 2009
Thank you Madtram for your advice.  I agree with you.  

I wanted to add that I am not on a anti-depressent at all.  I take nothing else but the Tram.  So my seizure was from the high dose period.  Very scary.  I can tell you since that night,  I feel paranoid ever since as I had no warning. I also got a nasty sore in my mouth because when it happened I bit down on the inside of my cheek really hard when my jaws locked.  I have a huge bite that adds to my discomfort.  I just pray that this never happens again and especially when driving.

599071 tn?1300072302
by madtram, Dec 02, 2009
Hi Karen, like anything involving the brain, they are still not sure  exactly why tramadol causes seizures. Big changes in serotonin is definitely part of it but is not the whole story. The main thing is not to make big changes in your dose from day to day, if you have dropped your dose for a day or two, it is particularly dangerous to return to the higher dose.

As for feeling better being off tramadol, I am nearing 50; perimenopausal & my thyroid has given up but I have 1,000 times the energy I had while on tramadol in the last months.  The worst thing about the tramadol energy for me was when it turns on you, you have no idea what to expect from hour to hour let alone day to day, one minute fine, the next, unable to walk to the letterbox. That level of randomness was way too much to deal with.

Take care.

M

1103290 tn?1261754965
by gerty411411, Dec 02, 2009
hey peoples, you are all rocking it with the posts.  I can't keep up!!!

Karen, I indulged in tram for 2 years and by the time i decided to really stop I was taking 20-25 tabs/day..One of the reasons I loved t was because I didn't want to eat while I was on it.  Unfortunatly I made up for the calories by drinking a lot of Crown Royal.

I'm on day #16  ct after a 1 week rapid taper.  I had tried a slower taper in July which wasn't successful.  Each time I reduced my dose I had  w/d symptoms.  It was easier for me just to be done and FREE...  The first week was hell but motivation and determination as well as the great company/support on this site has kept me going.  My energy level  is getting better but I have a cloak of depression over me that is at least better than anxiety

I've not had bloating but I've noticed a striking urge for all things sweet====especially little debbie snackcakes!!!

The final comment is I have had the wierdest dreams----ranging from horror to caligulesque  (is that a word?)

Have a good Evening,  Gerty













Avatar universal
by petunia3334, Dec 02, 2009
I just flushed all my pills. I'm not taking them anymore. Its time. Thanks for all the inspiration.

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Dec 03, 2009
Hello Karen,  I was reading back over the "Day 45 Journal" thread tonight and I came across one of your posts from a year ago.  

Thought you'd enjoy reading it again:


by Mercedes175, Dec 09, 2008 10:25AM

Hi, my name is Mercedes.  I have posted alittle on the other boards but found this site.  I need some advice.  I want to stop taking Tramadol but have been avoiding the actually "doing it" part because I have a trip coming up on 12.23-12.27.  I have to fly and stay with family.  From the little experience I have had so far with Tram withdrawals (my mornings) I am really, really scared.  I am not sure what I have done to myself as I am not even starting tapering or anything..just the mornings are the longest I have been since my last dose and I literally feel like I can barely make it to the bathroom.  I have really, severe body aches and listnessness.

Can someone give me a status check on where I am at.  I started taking tramadols (I think) some time in September.  So I am going on 4months..  I take 8 50mg tablets a day.  Usually 2 in morning, 2 in afternoon, 2 around 5p and then another 2 around 7p - 8 tablets.

Should I be feeling this bad in mornings at this dose?  I could probably get away with 6 tabs...that last 2 is just for peace of mind in evening.

Should I quit this next w/end or wait till after Christmas. I was thinking 12/27...through end of year since work should be slow and daughter will be with my ex husband.  I atleast then have no more commitments, family and can be alone.

I also heard Clonidine helps. Was thinking of going to my doctor to get that prior to when I stop.  What I thought was to slowly taper until that w/end then jump.

Has anyone been taking about 8 pills a day for about 4months..can tell me what I can expect?  I am just way scared as I am all by myself.  My family is out of state..my ex can't do much for me.  Nobody knows.  My doctor is the one that gave me this stuff. I havent been back yet to ask for the Clonidine.  He told me this drug was not a problem. I know I will need to battle that when I go back but wanted to know what to ask for in terms of anything "he" can give me to help in the first 4 days.

I am also very concerned about the post listnessness. What I experience in mornings is a nightmare...I can only think it will get worse, right>?  Can I do this by myself?  Usually that morning episode is about 13hrs after my last dose. Any advice would be appreciated.  Lastly, if I did this before the vacation..I just fear that flying and being around family..I will need to do shopping, and helping..will not be able to veg on couch...I can't be sick around family and my daughter..that is why I would think..although I would be beyond the infamous 4 days I will still be way listless to be social.  

Avatar universal
by Elf_1977, Dec 03, 2009
Thanks everyone. I am OK after having gone from 350 to 300...I only have mild chills throughout the day. Dec 8th, I will cut down to 275 for 1 week, etc. Will keep posting. :)

Avatar universal
by Karen2010, Dec 03, 2009
Hi Fred, wow!  It is quite ironic that it is the same time of year I am back.  I stopped for a good 14 days, then it was on Presidents Day or something (we were off work on a Monday) after the holidays, I had a rough night the night before so took Emergee's advice and downed a bunch of Hyland's Restless Legs.  Unfortunately, it caused a sore on my toungue that hurt like a mother.  Between that and the general listnessness, bloatedness...I remember forcing myself to go walk and could barely make it half way I had absolute no energy..the low electrolyte feeling where your not sleepy just lifting an arm seems challenging.  But laying down I was miserable too as every time I moved my mouth my tougne hurt so much..that is when I caved.  I took 2 trams to help me feel better then I was right back to the 6 by end of night.  Felt so much better  I made a decision that I was better off (at that time) taking them so decided to make the best of it.  

Now I wish I was still at 8.  I am trying to get back there then...we'll see.  My goal is to taper to 8 first...then evenutally taper to nothing.  

Thanks Fred.  I sound so determined in my note last year...then here I am again!  ugh!

Avatar universal
by Karen2010, Dec 03, 2009
Fred, btw, I would have kept my old screen name Mercedes I just couldnt remember it at the time I wanted to post..then I remembered only after!  

Avatar universal
by Karen2010, Dec 03, 2009
Madtram/Gerty, thank you for your posts. I am so glad I have found women like me.  Madtram, I am 48 so your experience is very comforting to know you have energy again.  How far along are you Tram free?  Did you go cold turkey...I am not familiar with your story.

Gerty, unfortuantely your reason was and is my main reason for staying on the Trams.  Not sure about you but even on the Trams I crave sweets more than I did off.  I have eaten half a pie and still dropped 3 sizes.  I was never heavy but this definitely speeds up your metabolism and Im not as hungary as much so I control my eating better.  But I try to look at it as I have noone to impress when it comes to the safety of my daughter..who cares how skinny if I have a seizure in the car or something dreadful.  I am actually thinner then my 14 year old daughter now which if it was all healthy excercise would be one thing but I know it is not.  The water intake alone is responsible for most of it.  It dehydrates you.

Anyway, Im not going to lie to anyone that I enjoy the perks of the less hungar, smaller pant sizes (a zero!)...lol, but like Petunia says, it is time.  

Petunia, I am so happy for you.  Please keep posting how you are feeling and I am not too far behind you.  Blessings to all...

Avatar universal
by newway, Dec 03, 2009
Hi all,

Gerty - funny - I am okay with the anxiety - I'd rather that than depression! lol  When I am anxious and edgy, I can do physical things - simple, physical things that help me - laundry, cleaning etc.
I hate low energy, always have - I think it is one of the reasons tramadol was so appealing to me initially, and one of the reasons I have such a hard time staying clean.  I want to to 100 things in the time it should take to do 20 and I want to do them well.  I accept no excuses for myself except that I am lazy and was unable get the job done.
When the tram started to turn on me, and I kept taking more and more - expecting my energy to increase - it was brutal.  I was beating myself up for being unmotivated and lazy and taking up to 25 trams a day!
Even now, with the low energy - it still feels better than the tram fog - at least I know it is going to get better.  For someone who expects so much from themselves - it is amusing for me to celebrate the fact that I was able to put the garbage AND the recycling at the curb this week!
I was going to stay at 3 for the holidays - but I am now down to 2 a day - one mid morning, and one as late in the afternoon as possible.  It has only been 3 days - but I must say  the level of intestinal discomfort surprises me.  My energy is zero - but working at home has it's advantages - I am able to sleep if I am crashing.  The only time I seem to have energy is when it comes to night and the RLS kicks in - it must have something to do with when I am taking the trams - because it doesn't bother me throughout the day.



Avatar universal
by nancy652, Dec 03, 2009
Tramdol was approved as unscheduled under a "novel" study protocol. I posted earlier, but it didn't show for some reason. You can read it here in the Tramadol Research blog I started:

http://nancy652.wordpress.com/

Fight on, good people.

Madtram, I am having trouble opening some studies. Would you be willing to resend?

Love,
nancy

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by booba77, Dec 03, 2009
I think I am about finished with the worst of it.  34 days off the demon trams....to those starting out, it will get better.  I was up to 25 a day near the end and am now finally physcally over the WD, still no energy but that could be the weight gain from all of my overeating.  darn monkeybread will get you every time. goodnight folks.....keep fighting.

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by madtram, Dec 03, 2009
Hi Nancy,  I am deep in bio-stats term papers so haven't got to the new blog but once I'm over the hump will be visiting & also have some new material.  Which studies do you need resent for now?

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by Maxx14, Dec 03, 2009
In a holding pattern today. Have taken no more than the days before but no less either. This, however, is a huge progress for me. I'm also not taking them after 5PM. Also a big step. Just working through the feelings and having a cup of tea or whatever. -Maxx

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by gerty411411, Dec 03, 2009
Another decent day. I must admit I did look through my old purses.  Thank God I didn/t find any pills. I must prepare myself for that to occur and visualize myself flushing the little skank down the commode.  That's why I could never knowingly keep T around after i decided to quit.

Newway, I'm psyched that you have dropped down to 2 pills day!!!!!

Looking forward to another t free day tomorrow

Looking forward to a nice sleep w/o sweat, cold or rocking socking robot legs/arms!!!!

Take care all! Love, Gerty

Avatar universal
by petunia3334, Dec 03, 2009
not feelin to good. Next Thursday I will be.

Avatar universal
by petunia3334, Dec 04, 2009
it seems quite a few of you really don't want to quit. I'm so pissed and sick, bitchy and can't stop eating and then sitting on the toilet. I printed out 15 copies of a great encouraging note from someone who said I could do this and put the copies all over my house. My head hurts. I've been in the bath twice and took a shower twice. I wonder how many of you are going to still be here next week still talking about quitting and I'm going to have a big smile on my face. I'm sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sick. I can't get comfortable.



Avatar universal
by inspiring, Dec 04, 2009
hang in there petunia, your horrible sickness feeling will pass with time, and that is GOOD

Avatar universal
by inspiring, Dec 04, 2009
Petunia - when I CT I ate every couple hours, it was the only thing that made me feel better for a little while, but OH I had so much to digest, really TRY to eat helthy snacks and Do take your supplements and vitamins from thomas recipe/list. They REALLY do make a difference

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by gerty411411, Dec 04, 2009
Petunia,  I know how you feel.  Today is day #18.  I rapidly tapered over 1 week after being on t for 2 years (20-25/day).
The first week is hell. Try epsom salts in your bath and take as many baths as you need. I took 2-3 day for a week.  Do take vitiamins as inspiring suggested. I also to a vit b12  pill that dissolved so it could be rapidly absorbed.  Also try to do 20-30 minutes of any physical activity you can daiy.  Even a walk outside helped me.  

I and we are here fore you!!!!!

Gerty

Avatar universal
by desperate2getWell, Dec 04, 2009
Petunia, I am a day behind Gerty.  It will get better.  Listen to your favorite music.  This will pass.  And it will be the best gift you can give yourselves and loved ones.  And best not to focus on all the uglyness of withdrawal.  I also went through about three boxes of chamomile tea.  I went CT after years of being on it and today, being Day #19 I can tell you that I feel okay mostly.  Sure there are those moments but I expect they would be there anyway.  Love, Light and Healing to all here seeking it.  


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by Maxx14, Dec 04, 2009
Almost 1 week of tapeing for me! I've really thought for about 6 months (I've been taking 20-30 pills a day - started Tramadol 1 year ago) that I would not be able to get off this drug, but I know have some REAL HOPE! -Maxx

Avatar universal
by Elf_1977, Dec 04, 2009
I have a general question that I'm not quite sure how to effectively articulate, but here goes a try:

Since I have gone from 350mg to 300mg, I barely have any symptoms.

Does this necessarily bode well for the rest of my taper, which will be 25 mg less every 1 week?

Or am I still "riding" on the metabolites and chemicals built up in my system?

In other words, people that have issues and suffer through their taper: Did it start that way from the VERY beginning, the very first cut back and last throughout, or has anyone started the taper, felt fine in the beginning, and then it got bad/worse when you cut back to a certain level, or dropped off entirely?

Thanks for any/all feedback!

~Elf

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by booba77, Dec 04, 2009
Elf, I think since you are cutting back 25 mg once a week you will not feel too many effects until you are taking very little or when you are at the end.  tapering thar slowly is quite smart cuz the withdrawals will not be nearly as severe as a quick taper.  

Avatar universal
by inspiring, Dec 04, 2009
Elf - I felt OK until I stopped the 2 a day, I went 1 a day, then 1/2 a day, the first 2-3 days after CT I felt OK, but then started feeling ill, nauseous, depressed, couldn't sleep.  It lasted about 3 days before i noticed I was gradually feeling better. It took me about 2 weeks to realize it was out of my system and I could look forward to HEALTH Everyone is different, be sure to take the supplements they DO help  aloha to all  be good to yourselves

Avatar universal
by Elf_1977, Dec 04, 2009
Thanks. Sorry, but can someone post a comprehensive list of supplements or a web link to those?

Avatar universal
by newway, Dec 04, 2009
Elf,

I have tapered from about 25 a day and it was only if I made a really big jump that I felt really bad.  Now that I am down to 2 per day - I am feeling a bit rough - and expect that the next few weeks will probably be the worst of it.

Hang in there!

Avatar universal
by Elf_1977, Dec 04, 2009
Thanks everyone. What are the essential vitamins/supplements I should take?

I already take a multivitamin once/day.

I have never suffered w/ depression and am naturally pretty happy-go-lucky; will I still get depressed no matter what??

Avatar universal
by Elf_1977, Dec 04, 2009
And what doesn't kills us only makes us stronger, right? :)

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by forget_me_not, Dec 04, 2009
Elf, glad you are doing well so far!  It's so hard to predict how you'll adjust to each progressive drop in the dosage.  During my attempts at tapering, I noticed that I had a "threshold dose" of about 300mg.  When I dropped below that dose, even in tiny amounts, I noticed a fairly quick increase in the withdrawal symptoms. But that doesn't mean you will, too.  Your threshold may be much lower, or even much less well-defined.  If you do have a minimum dose to ward off withdrawal, it will probably become fairly obvious when you dip below it.

I remember, once, when I didn't have the 50mg tablets and instead took some Ultracet 37.5mg tablets.  I didn't expect there would be any huge difference, and I took essentially the same number of tablets.  When I woke up the next day, I felt like I was deathly ill from the flu, fever, chills, and all.  Took me the better part of the morning to figure out what had caused it.

You're so right...what doesn't kill us does make us stronger, wiser, more empathetic and compassionate.  You may still get the depression.  It's something most of us encounter due to the serotonin and noradrenaline actions of tramadol.  Just expect that it "might" happen.  That way, if you find yourself feeling your brain has plunged into hell one day, you'll know...it's healing!  Many of us do experience it, and it is transient and you will feel much better very soon.

On a happy note... My interview went WONDERFULLY!  No tramafog, no word hunger.  No fear.  It was so, so good to feel in touch with myself again.  Whether or not I get the job isn't even the most important thing anymore.  I did my best, and I am proud of that.  I've overcome so much to be standing here.  And it feels darn good.

blessings, and always, peace.

~fmn

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by forget_me_not, Dec 04, 2009
oh, and Pharma is our resident expert on supplements to help with the process.  I've taken her advice and am taking a large dose of B12 every day.  That has really helped, and I was deficient in B12 anyway (discovered at a routine dr. appointment).  It's a safe vitamin to take and very necessary for proper nerve functioning.  

Additionally, I have had extremely good results with 5-HTP.  It has helped with depression and insomnia, as well as the insane carb cravings that had nearly sabotaged my blood sugar.  I take 100mg daily, about an hour before bedtime.

best wishes...
~fmn

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by gerty411411, Dec 04, 2009
Hey y'all,

Another frigging headache.  Hopefully won't progress to the mf''er headache.  Sorry about the language but if you've ever experienced one you know what I'm talking about.

Maxx, So excited for you and I'm sending good vibes your way!!!!

Elf, I also found that valerian root extract seemed to help me with anxiety and restlessness. It's nasty but I would mix 2 dropperfuls in a glass of water and chug it down at night. Nyquil also worked for insomnia.  I only needed it for about 3-5 nights.

Take care all, Gerty

Avatar universal
by tman4071, Dec 04, 2009
iam on day 31 ,,,,side efeects mostly gone,,,,,,just one left,,,no energy ,,,,,what can i take or do any suggestions,,,i just feel like laying down all day...help please

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by madtram, Dec 04, 2009
You could try DLPA; acetyl -l-carnitine  or an adrenal support formula, (I use Cortitrophin by Vitamin Research Products).  Make sure you are getting plenty of good quality protein to support your neurotransmitters and vitamin D can help, (unless you are getting plenty of sun, supplement with 2,000 iu per day).

It does take time though.  You have just fought & won a major battle, even the strongest of warriors get to have a little down time.

Avatar universal
by tman4071, Dec 04, 2009
ty     i will try    

Avatar universal
by Sophie304, Dec 04, 2009
Thanks to madtram, I am now posting in the current thread. I wrote the post below in the old thread about 2 hrs ago. Since then, I did weed to diminish the crippling anxiety. I also hope it will help me sleep and it certainly helped with my appetite. I also have vivid, unpleasant dreams. I feel chilly, so I am going to take a bath. Tomorrow, I am going to the gym.

Feel better, all!

****


I am too very happy to have found this board. My heart goes to all of you, and I hope we all feel better soon.

My story: I suffered a complicated tibia fracture that was undiagnosed for 9 days. It was very very painful. I was given tramadol which did little for the pain and discomfort. Then they gave me vicodin which I continued after the surgery. I was in a full extension brace and in a lot of pain and discomfort. I had to go to work, on crutches, by commuter rail and through a very busy city. I resumed the tramadol after I ran out of vicodin. I was feeling better and better, did all of my work, had a lot of energy. 3 weeks after the surgery I was out of the brace and into physical therapy. The therapy is painful, but let's face it, a tylenol is sufficient. But in the past two weeks I took the tramadol because I liked it, 70 mgs a day.

I went cold turkey on Wednesday. Thursday morning at work hell ensued. Anxiety, some chills and aches. Since this afternoon (Friday), it's been just anxiety - crippling and scary. I am having a hard time focusing on my work, so I took the day off. I really hope the weekend is sufficient, and I feel better on Monday. A friend of mine, who is a psych. social worker, told me I will be like new in 3 days. I really hope so. For now, the only thing that helps is reading here and writing this. I helps so much to know I am not alone.

Feel better, all.


Avatar universal
by inspiring, Dec 05, 2009
Elf - Go to google and search for THOMAS RECIPE it is well written and GREAT advice on supplements vitamins and help aids for tapering and withdrawal  Best wishes to you

I found the 5-HTP really helped for awhile at night, it helped me sleep and improved my mood but then it wasn't helping e so much. For sleep i took the nyquil (without the decongestant important) and one bottle got me thru and now I am sleeping better than I have in years, sometimes I have to take tylenolpm to sleep but no problems really

IG thanks to everyone who helped me on this site  stay strong,        this too will pass



Avatar universal
by inspiring, Dec 05, 2009
T-man  I remember that feeling of no energy, try to use that time for reflection, if you can do nothing all day yet think and plan you will become motivated to move, don't feel guilty

try small goals - MAKE yourself do a chore then rest. Be proud tp take out the garbage, even if its the only thing you get done in one day

You need to rebuild your physical body, like weight lifting  - each rep makes you tired but it BUILDS strength for the next day.

Get motivated in your present state of lethargy, watch documentaries, LEARN, write your experiences, do what you can without moving around -  DO NOT beat up on yourself for having no energy.

Take the B vitamins, have healthy foods, eat pasta and noodles for energy fuel, cut down on sugars & caffiene, go easy on yourself, you have completed a monumental step and your energy WILL come back

Just hoping to help

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Dec 05, 2009
Elf,  I just grabbed ahold of "The Thomas Recipe" for you and posted it as a journal entry on my profile page.   We are HERE for you you know.   :)

Welcome Sophie. Keep coming back and letting us know how you are doing, OK?

Sweet FMN!  Your words are like gold in pictures of silver.   You have such a gift of compassionate expression.    

Petunia, you are engaged in a tough fight for your life, but you are doing SO GREAT.  If it would make you feel any better, a dear soul on the Addiction Recovery side is currently looking for help with her 70 pill/day tramadol addiction.  Everyone say a little prayer for her.  (sorry, I can't recall her name).

Gerty, I am hoping your headaches don't become too freakish again for you (((hugs)))

I was once again at that place last night where those of us go who are alergic to alcohol.  (AA meetings!)  Without divulging secrets, a woman was celebrating her 3rd AA birthday last night.   Cool stuff.   Which naturally got me thinking of what it was ...that caused me to have those moments of clarity, when I became OPEN to changes in my life?

What is it per se that causes me to liston and not hear for years, and then in a blessed gift of a moment, become open to a change in how I will face my addiction?   When I came to the point when I actually soaked it in and not pushed the message of hope away?  

Receiving input is a funny thing.   Everyone claims we want input, but most of us don't want to really hear.  

I practice law for a Fortune 500 Corporation and they are constantly asking customers to provide input about the service we provide.   If the truth were told, they  don't REALLY want input when they ask for it, but what they want is positive feedback.  Statistics to support claims that our customer service is in the 99.5 percentile.

I bought a new vehicle a couple weeks ago.   The salesman told me that when I receive the surveys from Toyota, if I couldn't rate him as "excellent", he wanted me to call him before responding.  In other words, they aren't seeking the truth.  What they want is evidence to support the pre-conceived notion that their service ratings are excellent.

Naturally, I did respond to the survey.  But not all of my marks WERE excellent marks.  And I asked some pointed questions and made suggestions on how to improve their service.   Did they hear me?   No evidence of that so far.  Wooden ears.  Hearing what they WANT to hear.   Seeking feed back to support their pre-conceived notions.

Isn't that a great deal what many of us did all these years?  Asking lots of questions, but not ready to receive the hard answers?  

Speaking only for myself, people in my life TRIED to talk to me about my alcoholism.  About my addictions/dependancy to tramadol.   I asked my doctor questions, but to a large extent, I wasn't prepared to hear his answers.  Not prepared to sit still for an intervention I had 16 years ago.   Instead of "hearing", I was angered, unreceptive, and to be honest, I felt betrayed and eventually made myself estranged from loved ones and friends, who meant only good for me.  

So yeah, I "get' listoning but not hearing.   And yes, I understand "knowing", but not being able to take the first steps to change behavior.   I guess it takes what it takes for any one of us to become receiptive to the notion of change when it comes to our dependancies, huh?   Open to the belief that what has been seemingly IMPOSSIBLE for months, years, even decades, might just become POSSIBLE today.  

Today, I become tearful, when I consider that I was blessed with tiny windows of times in my life, when I have been able to see the truth for what it was.  And become willing to do whatever it took, to LEAP through the door of FAITH and grab ahold of promises. To realize that what had become possible for others, might also become possible for Fred.  

Moments of clarity don't happen often in a person's life.   Like large corporations looking only for what THEY want to hear, we become good at ignoring the truth of our situations.   We become quite good at pushing away from the truth, and spinning our own truths instead.   And that well honed survival skill we all employ in our lives has a name.  It is called DENIAL.  It's neither a good nor a bad thing.  It's just the way that addicts like me tend to cope with life.    A survival skill of sorts.

But tonight I am grateful that when that small window opened for me, maybe for the first time in a long time, I grabbed hold and determined to shut up and liston even harder to what others here had said.   Because it is truly only by the grace of god, that I am not taking 70 tramadol pills today, having grand mal seizures, and seeing my last flickering chance at life blowing out like a candle in the wind.

Faith is the substance of that thing we hope for...and faith is the EVIDENCE of things we have not yet seen or experienced.

The older I become, the more strongly I am convinced that change doesn't just happen.  Change seems to only become REALITY for me, when I can vision the promise while I am still standing on the "problem" side of life.   When I have the COURAGE AND DETERMINATION to lay aside the challenges and fears that so understandably serve to get between me and the promise I seek to achieve.   When I am able to set aside tomorrow's fears until tomorrow arrives.  And stay focused in the tiny moment in life we call the present.

We who travel these rooms are but pilgrams, stumbling in the dark.  Finding our own way through obstacles we knew not off only days before.   But while we still breath and still have life, we at least do have a chance.  A CHOICE.  

Strumbling pilgrams - please don't give up hope.  Not now.  Not this time.   I am saying little prayers that each of us is filled with a super natural PEACE that passes anything we have known before.  Saying little prayers that each one is able to stay in the moment and lay aside tomorrow's problems until we see tomorrows light of day.

Courage, Strength and Peace to you all.   And good night to all as well (I hope!)

fred



Avatar universal
by Sophie304, Dec 05, 2009
Good morning to all and thank you for the encouragement!

I had a good night sleep, no awful dreams. I truly feel better.

I hope it's an easy weekend for everyone.

Avatar universal
by desperate2getWell, Dec 05, 2009
Fred,
Those surveys of Toyota are basically going to ding the salesperson.  I know someone who used to work for them.  If they got a letter less than 100 percent then they downsized their commission.  Somehow, it's always about the money.
Good sleep but broken into three parts which is ok as long as I can get back to sleep.
Hope you are all feeling good.  Naturally of course. XO

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by Prospero73, Dec 05, 2009
Fred writes: "What is it per se that causes me to liston and not hear for years, and then in a blessed gift of a moment, become open to a change in how I will face my addiction?   When I came to the point when I actually soaked it in and not pushed the message of hope away? "

Sometimes you don't realize how close you are to that blessed opening.  I've worked a lot with chain saws, and I've seen how even the big ones can fail to start up if a little twig is lying across the chain: that's all it takes to block the momentum.
I was a heavy smoker for many years, and had made many efforts to quit.  About 30 years ago, I had bad bronchitis, and asked my doctor for some codeine.  He gave me the prescription, and wrote on the bottom "quit smoking."  The timing must have been perfect for him to advise and me to listen, because I never had another cigarette.

Booze wasn't that easy.  I quit for a couple of good years, and relapsed for a couple of bad ones.  Finally, 23 years ago next month, my daughter took me to my first AA meeting.  I was one of the lucky ones, that was relieved that same day of the desire to drink.  

I was, and remain, an agnostic and mystic, in that I don't believe it's given to humans to fathom or define God, but I can certainly recognize divine grace when I experience it.  You never know when it's going to come your way, so be prepared and never give up hope.  As they say, don't leave one day before the miracle!  

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by forget_me_not, Dec 05, 2009
Beautifully said, Prospero and Fred!  

Love the chain saw analogy.  I can't help thinking how that same analogy applies in reverse: sometimes the habit is momentum, like a person on roller skates going downhill with no brakes, and all it takes is one tiny rock under a wheel to terminate it dead still.  That rock can be a doctor's handwriting on the bottom of a prescription, or it can be a seizure or a glimpse back over the last ___ years (you fill in the blank) with no real recollection of anything meaningful.  Or looking at a child sleeping and realizing all of it.  Or looking in the mirror and longing to recognize the person looking back at you.

The wreck can be so traumatic.  Inertia. An object in motion (headed toward destruction) will remain in motion until it is acted upon by an outside force.  The rock.  The twig.  The handwriting, the sound of a child breathing, the reflection.  It is our salvation.  And yeah, it hurts.

peace, Warriors.  The beautiful, magical contradiction in that closing is never, ever lost on me.

~fmn

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by gerty411411, Dec 05, 2009
Hi Y'all,

Just chilling out tonight.  Hope all is well!!!

Love gerty

Avatar universal
by newway, Dec 05, 2009
I was out tonight to a Christmas get together.  It was unbelievable the amount of anxiety I felt before I headed out.  I am so used to "taking the edge off".   Not taking anything, or making sure I had a handfull of pills in my pocket is unheard of.
While I have been tapering, I have been avoiding a lot of social gatherings.  Just staying in my comfort zone.  But this is a close group of friends and a yearly tradition.
I know things will change as I continue to deal with my addictions, hopefully healthy coping skills will replace those that have kept me in a fog for so long.  Tonight was tough - to be stressed about being around friends I have known for 2 decades!?  
I managed - but was so focused on wanting t I paid little attention to anything. A very frustrating evening.
Just another step to getting free of this - a reminder that it is more than a bad habit, that I am going to have to learn how to live my life without drugs or alcohol breaking my fall.
One day, I will find myself just living life and realize - Hey, I haven't thought of that evil drug for a long time!


Avatar universal
by JG525, Dec 05, 2009
Thank you Prospero, Fred and FMN.  I was feeling down tonight.  Probably because of my Effexor taper.  I know it will pass...probably by morning, but for a moment, reading your messages, I was able to sit here and breathe and be present and listen.  Sometimes I feel so worn down by the struggle.  First, I quit smoking, then drinking, then a few years later tramadol, now my anti-depressant.  Not to mention the party life years ago.  It feels never ending.  And it can never be simple and pain-free.  Like the tramadol taper and especially this Effexor...it's so slow and fatiguing and draining emotionally and physically.

Just one thing after another.  But these are positive changes and I know this moment of negativity will pass, as everything does.  I'm turning 30 this month and I know I could have given over many more years of my life to these things.  So, I hope I get my "house" in order soon and can keep this sobriety and give myself some time to enjoy life.

Newway-  I found my anxiety worse with the taper.  It's just knowing you can't have more pills.  Just like an alcoholic having one or two drinks...you're always thinking about the next one.  Once you stop, the anxiety will pass and you won't crave it like that either.  Hang in there.  I struggle with social things too without alcohol or pills or anything.  It makes the view different for sure.

Jenny

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by forget_me_not, Dec 05, 2009
I remember, many years ago, standing in the yard of my childhood home on a hazy, yellow late-summer afternoon, staring into the setting sun, feeling my feet in the grass where my swingset used to stand, where my brothers and I used to play.  The stillness was silent and the nostalgic yearning was heavy and I could barely breathe.  Echoes rang in my ears of voices long gone.  Laughter, innocence, laughter, innocence.  Reaching back through years, I saw the faces of children whose eyes were blind to the struggles that lay ahead of them.  No tomorrow, just today.  Then, there was no time.  Now, seconds pierced my skin like darts, each one a little more painful than the one before, measuring time like counting steps away from a door slammed shut, one I would never enter again.

I have never been good at endings.  Or beginnings, for that matter.  I love the seasons because they blend seamlessly into one another, each bending the edges of the one before and the one after, so that there are no clean breaks, no hard lines.  Shades of gray rather than black and white.  In Kentucky, the spring arches and soars until it becomes summer, but not on any particular day.  Fall’s chill is just a soft, soothing contrast woven in between and among hot days growing longer, then shorter and shorter still.  And snowflakes come too, falling on yellow sycamores and red maples, and then on skeleton trees just about to burst into bloom once again.  Neither equinox nor solstice matters because it’s a continuum, a flowing stream that makes perfect sense, with surprises here and there like gifts wrapped in shimmering light by God’s own hands.

Hard lines make me nervous.  Anxious, even.  So today I don’t think about my recovery in terms of weeks.  I see it for what it is.  A journey with peaks and valleys and blind curves and mornings and nights.

Yesterday I photographed the last of the roses blooming in my garden.  ‘Pink Peace’ was the champion this year, her long, graceful stem carrying a 3-inch bud toward the winter sun on December 4th.  This morning I woke up at 6am to a glorious snowfall, the kind that bends the tree branches to touch the ground, almost as if they are bowing in reverence.  ‘Pink Peace’ was my first thought.  I grabbed the camera and took out the door.  When I saw her there, the long stem and beautiful bloom perfectly still under a blanket of white, I just stood in awe.  What courage.  The flower didn’t wither away in fear because that isn’t what flowers do.  Flowers reach toward the sun and they bloom, even against all odds.  Blindly, she reached.  And I, with the miracle eyes that I have with millions of rods and cones, cannot “see” what she saw.  Her determination to fulfill her potential made me ashamed of how I have squandered my own.

Saying goodbye is not my strength, not at all.

The people here on this forum will probably never realize fully how much they played a role in saving my life. Fred so beautifully and candidly describes how we employ denial as a survival skill when we are confronted with the inconvenient truth.  Four or five months ago I came to this site as I was searching for a lifeline.  I collided head on with the truth here, and I will never forget it.  I sat with my laptop, reading Emily’s words and knowing – knowing – that they were true, but trying every way I possibly could to run away.  It was like one of those movies in which someone is being chased through the streets and they run into a fence and start trying to find a way over, around, under it.  My time was up.  I tried every way I could to find a way for it not to be true.  And I closed the computer and her words banged against my heart.  You have been deceived, those words told me.  The drug has lied to you, feeding you anything it took to get you to take one more pill, with the goal of keeping you convinced it is your lifeline, your air.  Most of all, you have lied to yourself.  This is the Moment of Truth, and here it is: there is no way out except to STOP.  The fear was so overwhelming.  So loud, so sharp.  Like that day when I stood on hallowed ground and heard the resonating sounds of laughter, I had to peel away all of the layers of myself, one by one, to arrive at the core of who I was.  Was it brave?  It didn’t feel brave.  It felt like being slammed against a fence, like having the air pulled out of my lungs with metal hooks.  Like being pushed and pulled through a vacuum against gravity.  Like being born.

It is nineteen degrees tonight, and ‘Pink Peace’ is sleeping in holy slumber.  She sleeps so that, come May, she can blanket her trellis with sweet, heavy, pink blooms.  That takes a lot of energy, and she has certainly earned rest.  Her courage in setting that last flower is testament to her strength.  Will she survive the crash?  I have no doubt she will.

Sometimes winter begins like smoke rolling off of a dying fire.  Sometimes it is sudden and forceful.  Sometimes it brings two planes of time together, smashing and crashing until the ends fold in on themselves, and then again, and again, until the separation doesn’t exist anymore. No yesterday, no tomorrow.  Just this ever-shrinking sliver of “now” that we inhabit.

Today’s lesson: sometimes, even if it hurts, I have to say, at the very least, “Good night.  I will look for you in the morning.”


Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Dec 06, 2009
Jenny, Prospecto and FMN, I am mediating on each of your words - written today.   What I am realizing is that small things DO matter.   Like the twig on the chain saw bringing down that big powerful machine.    

FMN, I liked how you said, "An object in motion (headed toward destruction) will remain in motion until it is acted upon by an outside force."   With only some slight, mid course corrections,  our lives can and do roll on for better or worse.

I feel a little guilty at this point in my recovery because I KNOW others are really struggling still.   And that mid course correction I endured for a week with tramadol withdrawal many days ago is now but a distance memory for me.  And yet, I am continuing to be blessed with an clear mind, a life today not controlled by this drug tramadol, FAR less pain than the trams inflicted on me, and a wonderful herd of new friends  

Of course, other areas in my life could stand some similar small course corrections which I am sure would produce similar BIG blessings in other areas of my life.   But I am at least comforted in the knowledge that it is progress and not perfection that I must be satisfied with today.   Until the next "moment of clarity" opens in my life and I have the good sense to leap through the next open door.  To begin the next right thing as they say.

Keep up the fight.  THAT fight won't be a major part of your life life indefinately.  Like the space craft hovering the earth, small, course corrections produce new orbits that can be maintained for years after the short, but  powerful rocket thrust.

(((HUGS))) to you all.

fred

Avatar universal
by Trees_and_Tablets, Dec 06, 2009
Hi all,

Just checking in really. Haven't posted for a while.

Now 6 months since I quit the 300mg daily T.

Apart from the immediate CT effects the worst thing I experienced and continue to do so is skin irritation. Particularly my legs and neck area. Still don't like the feel of certain fabrics. Taking Gabapentin helps but need to stop that soon to see what effects remain.

This T withdrawal is one tough ride.

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by forget_me_not, Dec 06, 2009
Hi, Trees!  I am very curious about your skin irritation. Can you tell me about it?  Since quitting tramadol thirteen weeks ago, I have experienced very problematic itching on the skin of my upper legs and the left side of my chest.  One of those strange things that I know is related to tramadol but can't prove it.

A tough ride, it most certainly is.  I am so proud of everyone here.  

Jenny, I woke up thinking about you.  I hope you're feeling better.  The Effexor discontinuation symptoms on top of tramadol withdrawal.  I can't even imagine.  You are a hero, you know.

peace,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by Trees_and_Tablets, Dec 06, 2009
Forget_me_not,

Similar area - the top front of my legs mostly and the area from my jawline down to about six inches below my neck. Feels constantly sensitive. Kind of buzzing and sometimes sticky. As if I've had menthol rubbed into my skin.

Really makes it hard to wear anything other than really soft clothing. It is less pronounced than back in August as the heat and humidity seemed to make it worse, now the cold weather is here it helps. Doc gave me the Gabapentin as it is used to help nerve damage, and I guess after 10 years of T my nerves are a bit numbed down.

Good wishes.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Dec 06, 2009
By Burgi 2009,December 6  21:34  UK                                                                                                                                                                                    Hello out there. I've taken tramadol for about 6 years.  I took it in the first place for pain, then i realized it worked wonders for my depression . I take 400ml per day . For the last 2 years i have been feeling weak ,sweating all the time,i also  have become a recluse .  I never see anyone, they all have gone, even my three grown up children.    In order to get my life back i have to do  ' cold turkey ' .  I hope with my sleeping pills it will help me a little + all the other things you mentioned.   I'm VERY AFRAID !!


Avatar universal
by pharma9, Dec 06, 2009
I took the liberty to cut and paste burgi's post from an old thread and move it here.It is a new skill that I have learned but I am not sure if I did anything wrong .It was not really my post.I also posted on the old thread to burgi that I had done that and to meet us all here.Forgetmenot..you posted another wonderful post today and I certainly hope you get that job.You certainly deserve it and your writing skills are wonderful.Perhaps someone could print all your posts and put them together in abook.It would be better than that one the guy wrote about drug addiction and he was on Oprah and it turned out it wasn't quite as real as he wrote it.I thought Oprah was a bit harsh because her show is also staged and not quite as we see it.But your thoughts and emotions as written down in the midst of pain and agony of withdrawal are real and wonderful to read forgetmenot.There is a non linear progression of healing and at the end you succeed.Just like a book.

Avatar universal
by Marlene1177, Dec 06, 2009
What a blessing to find this website!  Three days ago, I thought this was my own personal war and no one could ever understand what I was going thru!  Have I had my eyes opened!!!  

I'm 56, have been on Tramadol for 7 years.  Mostly at 4 - 50mg a day and at the beginning of this year, it was increased to 8 - 50mg a day.  I've played all the games of trying to take more while trying to make my prescription last until my next refill.  Especially when I only had 4 a day, I figured out that I could actually take 5 a day and get my refill in that week buffer that the insurance co. allows, some will let you refill up to a week before you are "suppose" to run out.  I would go thru  a little withdrawal as I would have to cut back towards the end of my prescription.  For awhile, I had some hydrocodone and would substitute that for a dose or two a day to make my tramadol last longer.  You really get creative when you are panicky.  I knew all those horrible withdrawal symtoms were just around the corner if there was ever any kind of hiccup in getting my next refill.  I would worry that the doctor's office might close early and wouldn't call it in before the weekend or the doctor or insurance co. would suddenly deny the prescription.  I lived in fear every month!  

Well, my fear finally came true last Tuesday.  The doctor DENIED the refill!  The pharmacy tech seemed to have some joy in her voice as she announced this to me over the phone.  To myself, I always referred to her as the drug nazi!  I had one tram left.  I called the office and was told that I was refilling too soon.  I told them my prescription of 200 said 8 a day "as needed".  The nurse said I was a week away from a month and I then told her that 200 divided by 8 is 25 days, not a month.  She replied that just because the prescription said that, it didn't mean I should take it like that!   She said the doctor wanted to see me before they would refill.  Next available appt. (I'm thinking better be within 20 minutes or I'm toast!) would be in two days!  TWO DAYS with just one tram!  No way!  So I came home and promptly and panickly (word?) told my husband we had to talk!  He knew I took tramadol and though I had told him that I couldn't stop it abruptly, I don't think he understood what a major thing this was in my life. He is a wonderful, supportive husband but is the kind of man who will suffer a headache rather than take Tylenol!  He saw my mom pop "nerve" pills for every little thing and I never wanted him to think I could be like that.  I just laid it all out to him.  I told him I knew tram had control of me, I knew I had a major problem, I knew that at some point I was going to have to come to grips with this and that I was actually a "little" relieved (very little) that I would finally have to face up to my doctor about all this.  He said all the right things and even suggested I might need to take some of his hydrocodone that he has on hand for his tennis elbow, which he seldom ever takes!  We had a Christmas party to go to that night and there was no way I could make it thru that, having just been given this news!   We decided I should call the doctor the next morning and tell them I would need a "few" just to get by until the appt.  I know all of you can relate, there is that idea that you never want to appear "weak or desperate" when getting tramadol.  Anytime I would call in to see if my prescription was ready, I would always want to sound nonchalant, like I could take it or leave it, rrrrright!  All the mind games we play.  To admit to a nurse on the phone that I would need a "few" to get by was a lot for me BUT I was so panicked.  I was starting to experience withdrawal and I really wasn't without yet, it was still in my system, it was just knowing I only had one left.

After a very stressful and fearful night, the next day I called and talked to a nurse.  She told me that the pharmacy tech, drug nazi that she is, had misunderstood.  They didn't actually "deny" my prescription, they just told her that along with my refill, I would need to come in and talk to the doctor about my prescription!  The nurse said, "we would never leave you without any!"   She also said she had talked to the pharm tech and my prescription was "ready for pickup"!   Those three words I love to hear every 25 days!  I don't think this is my imagination but the tech was very cold when I went to the drive thru window.  Infact, she didn't staple my receipt to the bag, as she always does, so it blew out of the drive thru drawer and I had to pull up, pull over and get out of my car to retrieve it.  She IS the drug nazi, I knew it!  

I know this is long and I'm sorry but it just feels so good to be among people who understand all this!  Well, I postponed the doctor appt. so that I could see the PA who actually increased my dosage earlier this year.  She is only there on Tuesdays.  I feel more comfortable with her than the others.  So I'm to see her this Tuesday.  This past Thursday, I googled "Tramadol withdrawal" and found this wonderful, life saving site!  I am now "addicted" to it and every chance I get, sit down at the computer and read more and more postings.  Thank the Lord, He showed me this before my appointment!  I feel so much better and so much more informed about it all now.  I'm going to copy some of it and show it to her.  

No, I didn't know it had anti-depressant properties.  Years ago, the PA's at my doctor's office put me on Tramadol for back and neck pain.  I was also going thru a very tough time with our teenage son and going thru menopause.  I was asking for an AD.  They tried me on several but all of them made me feel like a zombie.  I told them that what really helped me more than anything was Tramadol.  It just made me feel like I could cope with anything and it gave me energy.
It wasn't a high like hydrocodone, it was just an "even keel" kind of feeling.  They said if it worked, go for it!  I remember as I was put on different AD's, suffering from a bit of withdrawal when going off of them.  I never took any one of them for longer than a week but still there would be an uncomfortable feeling for a few days.  Now to know I've been taking an AD several times a day for years and will have to withdraw! OMG!  I am so scared about all of this!

When I wake up in the mornings and have gone about 12 hours since my last dose, I always feel a little weird, strange, like I can't really get going until I know I have my first day's dose in me.  The other thing that hits me when I've had to cut back is the panicky and anxious feelings I get.  To leave the house sounds major, to do anything that requires energy seems impossible without tram.  I really admire all of you who have quit this cold turkey.  How proud and strong you must feel about yourselves, knowing you could defeat such a huge and powerful enemy!!!  I'm thinking I would rather go thru childbirth w/o drugs than tackle tramadol withdrawal!  In church this morning, I was thinking about all the success stories I've read on this site and thinking how tramadol and withdrawal is our cross to bear, we will suffer on that cross, oh, how we will suffer, BUT y'all (and one day me, I hope) will have defeated death and the tramadol devil and our "ascension" (on earth) is a life w/o tramadol, a life free of drugs, a life of clarity and joy in knowing you can get to the other side!!!  Oh, how I wish I could be on the other side of this problem!  

It's so good to hear that you feel BETTER once you get past the withdrawal.  I always thought that without tram, I would be depressed and have no energy since that's what I took it for.  Now I see, there is a light at the end of the tunnel and I'm so ready to have my mind defogged!  Like so many of you have written, I just want to be NORMAL, too!

I hope I haven't jammed up this thread or anything, with being so long.  I promise I won't be like this everytime I get on here.  It just felt good to type it all out and know people who understand will read it, well, you may be asleep by now it's so long, perhaps it will help with the insomnia! I never thought there would be a support group for this, I just somehow thought I was the only one in this mess!  

I'm hoping to go the slow decrease dose route.  Any advice before I talk to the PA on Tuesday?

Thank you for the help you are giving to all of us.  You are angels to me!!!

Marlene

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by forget_me_not, Dec 06, 2009
Marlene,

Welcome, welcome, welcome!  You are in the RIGHT place.  We are so glad you're here.

Reading your post.... Yes, as you have probably figured out, we can relate!  To every bit of it.  In fact, I've been in those situations so many times, I actually felt those old swells of anxiety all over again as I remembered the times I did exactly what you did.  Exactly, right down to trying so hard to seem cool and collected at the doctor's office when I was down to one, or sometimes no tramadol.  When the nurse took my blood pressure and it was through the roof because I was already 24 hours into withdrawal, praying hard that they would just give me a prescription to avert the train wreck of WD that was coming, the utter hell that I was on the edge of.  It's the opioid properties, sure...but that's not the worst of it.  The fear, the utter life-and-death fear of running out and plunging into that awful blackness, that was the worst for me.  The antidepressant qualities were what got me hooked, and they were what nearly killed me, too.

Your fear is so real, so understandable.  It's healthy to know that fear and to embrace it as one of your biggest allies in getting free of this drug.  Marlene, you CAN get to the other side.  It will be tough, but you know that already.  It may be the most important fight of your life, as it was mine.  I had to stop the madness or it was going to do me in.  For real.

Hang out here, read the old posts from Emily's prior journals.  Take heart in the knowledge that many of us here were in exactly the same position with respect to this drug.  It's kind of funny because we all think we're so original in how we cope with the addiction and fear.  I still smile to see that others did exactly what I did.  It's a set of survival skills we have all learned to employ at one point or another.  

Was struck by your comment about how we must all be so proud of ourselves for what we have overcome.  Really, for me, pride isn't the emotion at all.  It's humility.  I know how close I was to total destruction.  The experience of quitting this drug was so awful, and it changed me.  I know now the peace that passeth understanding, though.  Wouldn't go back for anything in this world.

A brighter day is just around the corner for you.  We'll walk with you, right by your side, through the darkness you will have to endure to get there.  Let us help.

peace, strength, and blessings,
~fmn

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by madtram, Dec 06, 2009
Welcome Marlene, glad you have found us & thank goodness they are not all drug nazis at your doctor's practice.

After 7 years, I think a slow taper has good prospects of success for you.  Dropping by 50mg a week is a  "standard" taper for tramadol, (in so far as anything can said to be standard about this drug).

If the withdrawals are still unmanageable, you can easily vary this to 25mg per week reductions.  Once at the lower doses some find that they prefer to just quit as tapering at low doses can prolong the withdrawals but don't worry about that until you reach that point.

The vitamins, herbs & amino acids in the Thomas recipe can be very helpful for some of the withdrawal symptoms:-

http://www.medhelp.org/health_pages/Addiction/Thomas-Recipe-Re-Posted/show/16?cid=66

Since you suffered from depression pre-tramadol, you may also want to try an alternative like St John's Wort or 5htp after withdrawal.  (Don't start them yet as there is a risk of serotonin syndrome while your tramadol remedies are still high).

Post as often & as much you feel inclined, for sometimes during withdrawal, a good rant & a sympathetic audience are as good as it gets.

Good luck with your PA's appointment.

Michelle

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by gerty411411, Dec 06, 2009
hi y'all,

day #20 under my belt.  The crappier days are coming less frequently.  Today was one of them.  Has anyone experienced increased headaches related to tram w/d.  I've been averaging a HA at least once a week if not more.

Michelle, your story was a classic in the tramadol files.  So glad you posted.  As I'm sure you have read, there are many ways to get off tram.  But as Fred posted recently none of them work without the enternal desire and determination.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Take care all, Gerty

Avatar universal
by Marlene1177, Dec 06, 2009
Wow, it's amazing.  I'm now in the "system" and fmn and madtram are responding to something I've written!  I've been reading this for several days and y'all are my heros and now you personally write that you will help me thru this!  Makes me cry, tears of joy for the help and support and also tears of realization, as I see it confirmed that I have a rough journey ahead of me.      

What I haven't read in these postings and maybe I've just not seen it, but does anyone ever end up in ER with a heart attack from withdrawal?  I have high blood pressure and I take Toprol, will withdrawal upset that?   Funny, how I'm so  worried about not taking tram and didn't worry about initially putting it in my body for years!

I plan to ask the PA about this but would like to hear from y'all, the real experts.  

Also funny thing, I've been on here for so long, I forgot to take my last dose of the day.  Usually, I'm waiting to take it and never go four hours between doses, always 3 1/2 hours!  I'm three hours behind and didn't even realize it!  I'm not going to fall into a false sense of hope on that but makes me smile to think that I've found something more important to do than wait on tramadol doses!  

One older posting I read awhile ago was from finally fred about how he would schedule his vacation around RX days!  I'm sorry we all have to go thru this but it's just music to my ears that I'm not crazy!  I thought I was the only one who ever noticed where I would be in my prescription as it related to upcoming events on the calendar!  

Thanks for the kind words and assurance.  I like the correction about pride, fmn.  Humility is a better word, pride is something we feel for a job well done or for our children.  Humility is when we've been taken to our core and can see the reality and graveness of what we've been doing and what now has to be done.    

So very grateful.
Marlene

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by Pinkmonki, Dec 06, 2009
I am soooo glad I found you!  I thought I was going insane.  Sadly, this is my second time detoxing off TRAMADEVIL.  You would think I would of learned the first time.  The first time I believed my doctors and just did what they said would be good, a good little robot I was.  This was about two years ago.  I recently was recovering from a shoulder surgery and was offered the Tramadevil again.  I forgot everything that I went through with the withdrawals the first time.  Now that I am in day two, how the heck could I forget!  But, I did, so live and learn.  I was the one putting the pills in my mouth and not doing proper research on what I was putting into my body.  All I knew is that I wanted the pain to stop and so it did.  Now there is a whole truckload of side effects.

I am boosting my vitamins (multi, omega 3/6/9, vitamin D, calcium, C), drinking lots of water, trying to exercise....UGH, taking hot baths-anything to sweat this stuff out of my system.  Is there something else that I can be doing?  I am carrying my patience on my sleeve and taking it one hour at a time and sometimes 5 minutes at a time.

Do you have any other suggestions?

Thank you for your time,
Pinkmonki

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by forget_me_not, Dec 06, 2009
Marlene, I remember, too, crying tears of gratitude and hope when I realized I had found a place inhabited by people who understood, and who wanted to help me heal.  I was so scared, and at many points, really didn't think I would live to ever see "normal" again.  I struggled with depression (ranging from moderate to pretty disabling) for years prior to discovering tramadol as the quickest acting, most powerful antidepressant I had ever seen.  And a huge part of my fear was that I would have to either (a) plunge back into that state of being, which was intolerable, or (b) be even more messed up because I had damaged my brain's chemistry too severely with the drug.  But I was at a point with tramadol where the fear of withdrawal was too crippling, too consuming.  I could not and would not ever endure WD again, period.  Would the future be the same as, or better or worse than the past?  Couldn't say.  But it would not be tramadol withdrawal.  Never, ever again.

I am so pleased to say, at thirteen weeks out, that the journey to healing has brought me to a place of good calm.  I have good and not-so-great days.  It's a miracle, plain and simple.  The highs are gone, but the lows are not nearly as low as I feared they might be.  It's the best trade I ever made.  Post-acute withdrawal symptoms (PAWS) still show up many days, but they come and they go.  The peaks and troughs are not nearly as extreme.

I think one of the most powerful restorations I have experienced in all of this is reclaiming "ownership" of myself, my life.  My time and energy are no longer tied to tramadol.  They were for so, so long.  I was a prisoner and had been driven into the darkest corner of the basement of life.  It was terrifying.  This journal was where I first glimpsed the light that would bring me out of that darkness.

Again, welcome to this blessed Place of Healing.  We are here just for you.

peace,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by Marlene1177, Dec 06, 2009
fmn, your words are like rain in a drought!  Thank you for your caring and compassionate words.  

With all the fear of withdrawal, when you were actually and finally in it, was it ever bit as bad as you feared?  Maybe I shouldn't ask this!

I can't wait to get to "calm".  I can't wait to get to "ownership".  I feel blessed to be at a "Place of Healing".

God's Blessings to you.


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by forget_me_not, Dec 06, 2009
Pinkmonki, Welcome!  How far into the withdrawal process are you?  Sounds like you are doing everything right at this point.

What worked for me might not work for you, but I'll share it in the hope that it might.  In the beginning of withdrawal, I had terrible nausea and little or no appetite.  However, it really helped a lot to eat.  Particularly, high-quality proteins and complex carbohydrates from foods like whole grains, lean meats, and eggs.  Proteins and amino acids are required for us to make many neurotransmitters that get very depleted during WD.  5-htp helped, although I didn't discover it until about eight weeks in.  It especially helps with the insomnia.  It increases serotonin, so it's important to make sure you aren't taking anything else that could cause a serotonin overload (some examples are Imitrex, antidepressants, decongestants, and certain antibiotics like Cipro).  

Also, mild exercise was really helpful when I could do it, which was not all the time, especially early on.  Some days I tried and did well.  Other days I failed miserably.  It was a process though, and most importantly, I didn't give up.  Push through the pain and fatigue within your limits.

Hot showers and potassium from bananas, baked potatoes, etc. also helped with the restless legs/arms.  And stay hydrated.

Most of all, know that this will pass.  You are healing even now!  Better days are just around the corner if you push on.  No matter what, push on.

We are here for you.  I wrote a lengthy journal entry in my own journal that might have something in it that is helpful for you.  I hope it will be.

peace and strength to you,
~fmn

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by Pinkmonki, Dec 06, 2009
I've been reading a TON of everyone's posts and the encouragement is overwhelming!  Today was a big day for me, I spoke with my husband and mother in great detail of what I've been going through and hiding from them and first and foremost from myself.  A lot of weight is now off my shoulders and having support is going to be great.

To JG525 (Jenny), about one year ago I completely got off Effexor XR @ 300mg.  I was at such a high dose because of gastric bypass and my lack of absorption.  This would hold true for all medications.  Until I read the posts here I had NO IDEA about the combination of the anti-depressant in the Tramadevil.  I went back to those long printouts you get from the pharmacy and there is no mention at all about this.  I asked my husband tonight "why would my doctor prescribe the Tramadevil after she knew what I went through getting off the Effexor".  He did not have an answer for me, just a good sounding wall.  This made me really annoyed at my doctor and I am going to ask her about it at our next meeting on the 18th of this month.  My heart goes out to you, but I know you can do it!

I always wondered why I felt like I could walk on clouds after popping those magic little white pills..........

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by forget_me_not, Dec 06, 2009
Pinkmonki, glad you are reading over the older posts.  There is so much gold in them.  Here is a link to the first journal entry I made at 29 days out.  Again, in the hope that there may be something in it that is useful for you as you go through the initial WD period.

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/126598?personal_page_id=802593

Jenny, still thinking about you and praying you have had a good day.  

peace, Warriors.

~fmn

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Dec 07, 2009
Welcome Marlene!   Yes, welcome to this place.   You have arrived at a place where we do understand.  Because, we have been right where you are now.   When I arrived here, I had the exact same fears, feelings and uncertainties.  

I can also appreciate your surprise and apreciation for having people who "get" the situation you are in-  respond here.  I still recall the first time Emily wrote back to me.   VALIDATION is critically important.   Everyone who arrives here feels like we are the only one with this problem.  Sadly, that is SO far from the truth.   But those arriving her eare the lucky ones.  Cause how many million people do you all figure are taking loads of this drug tonight?  

I once had a doctor (not my regular M.D.) tell me that he wanted to see me reduce my tramadol dose.  I thought, "he doesn't understand.  I don't need less, I need MORE of this drug".  Apparently they didn't teach him the principles of TOLERANCE to opiates in medical school.   I still get irrate when I consider how misunderstood this drug is.  

Sadly, I have come to believe that our good M.D.s prescribe this drug because unlike with prescribing "real opiates" (those ones throughly tested and scheduled) they won't get into trouble for over presribing tramadol...it isn't even recognized as a drug worthy of admitting someone into most treatment centers.

Time with this drug makes us all dependants and/or addicts.   It's a chemical thing.  

Marlene, I could also really relate to your "running out, help me" stories.   I can't tell you how many times I ran out early before it was time to refill my rx.  It's funny now, but I didn't put two and two together.  Of course I knew I felt like hell the last days of every rx cycle, but I guess I was either in denial or just plain too stupid to recognize I was in nearly constant opiate withdrawal.   It's what we call, "the drug turning on you.".  When the amount we require is greater than the amount we take in we experience withdrawal.   And the only way to make this tram-a-go-ride stop is for us to begin to put time between us and that last lovely little white pill.  It's simply that simple.

Several times during my six year love affair with this drug, my doctor wasn't around on "rx day" (that one circled on all of our calendars) and his back up associate refused to refill my tramadol rx.   I did just as you described, I called the "energency nurse" and begged for a few trams to tide me over until my understanding doctor got back from vacation.  

Throwing a scene at Group Health got to be really old.

Going to medical appointments with my hat in my hand got really tiresome.

"This isn't who I am" I thought.  

I got utterly worn out making certain that I had enough of my drug on hand.

And yeppers, vacations or even short trips always HAD to be planned around my tramadol supply.

I was tethered to this drug and to a system that I thought didn't understand me.

There are lots of reasons for dumping the tramadol.   But for me, I simply COULD NO LONGER DO THE TETHER thing any longer.  

I was in a great deal of pain while on the drug.   My tolerance to the drug had built up to the point that 8 pills a day wasn't enough.  I was in nearly constant withdrawal.  So I would take more of the drug at the beginning of every rx cycle, just to feel less unwell.  Which, naturally left me painfully in big time withdrawal the last week of every cycle.  

For those who have heard this before, I apologize, but there are really only three choices for EVERY tramadol user.  

1. Continue to INCREASE your daily dose of the drug as tolerance builds up in our bodies.   It is no wonder that people come here, who have done just that.  (increased their dose, usually by obtaining additional doses off the internet.)   I was just about to order pills online myself when I found you all, so I totally understand why people NEED to do this.   Unfortunately, as tolerance continues to build, we need more and more of this horrible drug.  Daily doses of 20-30 pills a day is not at all uncommon.   I saw one poor woman on the addiction forum, who was taking 70 pills/day.   There but for the grace of God would I have gone I am afraid.

2.  Continue to limp along at the doctor prescribed dose.   Since the prescribed amount is less than our bodies have developed a NEED for, walla, you end up with people like me, who are in a regular problematic constant state of pain and withdrawal symptoms.   The tram-a-go-round *****.  And nobody understands people like us in this state.

3.  Quit the tramadol.   For me, I came to the point where I could no longer ride the tram-a-train and suffer all that this drug sole from me.   When I arrived here and learned that I was not alone...that others had fought the battle and won, I had to try.   Cause for this person, options 1. and 2. above were no longer options.

Welcome to our world, Pinkmonki.   As far as I know, this IS the longest running "thread" for and about tramadol dependancy/addiction.   There are TONS of forums dedicated to opiate recovery generally and I am so grateful for those.   But this place just feels like home to those of us addicted to this "harmless, non-addictive synthetic opiate".

Welcome all newcomers.  Feel free to make this place "home" as long as you need to. And when you no longer "need" to visit, I pray that you will "want" to return, as I have.   Because I owe a debt of graditude I can never repay to Emily and her flock.

Peace,

fred

Avatar universal
by JG525, Dec 07, 2009
FMN- thanks so much for thinking of me.  I’m hanging in there.  I’m at 125mg right now of Effexor and will drop again Thursday.  I think I will stay at 87.5 through the holidays though because my in-laws will be around.

Pink- Also, thank you for your thoughts.  I think many doctors don’t take seriously the AD properties of tramadol.  My PA did mention it to me, but said maybe it would help me. She wasn’t worried about serotonin syndrome, which I never got.

Marlene- I SO relate to your story about calling the pharmacy and doctors.  You articulated that so well.  I did the same thing while supplementing with my mom’s tramadol.  Can you have your husband help you taper?  He sounds a lot like mine.  My husband is no addict and if he does help you taper, you have to be really clear about how many he can give you or you will be able to manipulate him.  I think anyway.

As far the BP meds, I would ask your doctor.  I would think it would be okay.  My psychiatrist gave me clonidine to help with the first few days of withdrawal, but this probably wasn’t a necessity.  It’s often given for opiate withdrawal.  I’m not sure how it works if you actually have high BP, but stopping tramadol isn’t likely to make life worse for you.  I feel SO much better in the mornings now.  I was so TIRED before.  

Now, I’m fatigued midday, I think from the Effexor withdrawal, but initially, I felt much more awake.  I also need to have my thyroid tests rerun because I may need to adjust the medicines I already take for that.

Jenny

Avatar universal
by Marlene1177, Dec 07, 2009
Finally Fred, you are absolutely one of my heros!  When I first found this site the other day, along with Emily's story, yours was one I followed.  You started out with so many questions, like I am now, and you ended up with such knowledge and sound advice.  It was interesting to watch the transformation and certainly gave hope.  I feel Emily should be called, St. Emily!  God Bless her for starting this "ministry"!

Along with many things, one main thing I've learned that I didn't give any thought to before, is that the dependency increases.  I thought I was one of the "lucky" ones, I had a prescription for 8 whole tablets.  My PA warned me when she increased my dosage to never take more than 10 a day.  I figured I was just about at the heighth of the dosage for tramadol.  I see now that I am on the threshold of needing more.  I had started taking 1/2, sometimes a whole pill between doses.  Sometimes I would get a headache from "too much tramadol" I surmised.  I can't imagine taking 25+ a day but I certainly understand how you could get to that and if I had known about ordering online, as you so accurately wrote, but by the Grace of God, goes I.  

In my heart, I'm ready to start withdrawal and get to the other side but in my head, I'm thinking with the holidays, this is a lousy time and I'm setting myself up for failure.   I wonder if this is an okay thing to do or am I just prolonging my denial and withdrawal?

Oh, how I can understand the "tether" syndrome.  I feel like Saul when the scales were removed from his eyes and he became Paul.  How my eyes have been opened to things I didn't realize I was doing!  Thank you for outlining the three choices.  How clear it makes it!  I'm so very tired of this game.

I'm thankful that people like you, who have gotten over the wall, still log on here and give us "probbys" encouragement and such life-saving advice.  

Thank you,
Marlene      

Avatar universal
by desperate2getWell, Dec 07, 2009
Just checking in.  Two weeks Tram free.  I think maybe day 16. I like the analogy about being "tethered" to this drug - for me it got to the point that I knew that I had to stop.  Get off the tram-train.  Anyway, I am having the wonderful PAWS, somehow I thought I had escaped that part of it?  So, my best remedy for that is to read all your posts and hear firsthand that it will get better.  You all say it so well!  Welcome to another tram free day. Peace & Healing Thoughts to you all.

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by gerty411411, Dec 07, 2009
Hi Y'all,

Today is my 3 week anniversary!!!
Thanks from the bottom of my heart for all the support!!!!!

Love, Gerty

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by forget_me_not, Dec 07, 2009
Gerty, congratulations!!!  Three weeks is a big deal, as you know!  I can remember very well how day 21 was a real turning point for me.  It was the first time I started to have entire days free of severe pain, fatigue, and extreme depression.  It was when I started to not only "see" the light at the end, but feel the warmth from it, too.

And around 25 days I had multiple consecutive "good days".  Oh, you have come SO far!!

very proud of all the tram warriors,

~fmn

Avatar universal
by Elf_1977, Dec 07, 2009
I can't decide if I want to cut back by 25 mg or 50 mg starting tomorrow for 1 week.

Any advice? I guess I could try 50, see how I feel, and then if it's horrible, do 25?

Or should I just stick to my original REALLY slow taper plan?

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by CleaningUp, Dec 07, 2009
It's almost like the holidays is what pushed me over the edge. I didn't want to go through another christmas numb to my surroundings and my family. I am 7 days clean, it hasn't gotten easier for me yet, but i know (and HOPE) it will. I am so thankful that I found this forum, and know that there are people out there who are going through the same thing that I am.

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by Pinkmonki, Dec 07, 2009
I love all the support out there.  Today is day 3 and I am in the dumps.  First of all I am at work right now and this is just hell.  I have one arm out of my sweater because I am hot and a fan is blowing.  My finger tips are freezing cold as are my toes.  The office building is only heated to 70 degrees.  I obviously will be doing lots of washing over the next month.  I can not get focused except to read posts here.

The other thing the Tram was helping me with was my father died on 10.18.09 from pancreatic cancer and watching this happen with the decline in him, his death, helping my Mom, the Tram kept me numb and plugging through everyday without hesitation.

I just burst out in tears and feel more coming on.  As I've been reading everyone's post this is "normal" for WD.  How weird to think of things as "normal" with withdrawals.  I am having anger issues right now at my doc for even prescribing this garbage to me.  My goal is to make it to 9 am at this point in time.  My boss called in and I have to make it sound like all is well.  I hate living this lie.

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by EmilyPost, Dec 07, 2009
This  thread is closed.

Please move to Part 23

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/142432

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