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Tramadol & Ultram Recovery Room Part 27

Feb 06, 2010 - 219 comments
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tramadol

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Hi Friends!

Welcome to part 27 of our Tramadol & Ultram Recovery Group! So happy that you found us here.

When I started journaling a long time ago, I could barely find anyone to help me. Not that I am happy that there's so many of us. But you know what I mean. It is easier if you have friends.

Make yourself Comfy!

Love & Healing,
Emily

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1200968 tn?1291694619
by ComingClean, Feb 06, 2010
I wanted to comment and really thank you Emily for all of your support. I have read a lot of your post's and it really helps knowing that I'm not the only one going through this. I actually could taste my food I ate this afternoon! Granted, I'm only on Day 4 but it seems everyday is another day to a clean lifestyle. I really wish the Doctors who prescribe this poison would have explained to me how bad this stuff would be. I have talked to my Doctor in length about tramadol and she still is saying its not addictive and non narcotic..such bs...I just hope to have the strength not to go get my refill when it is ready...I am so scared to start this problem all over again...please give me the power to fight this evil cycle..until next time..hope all is well with everyone..my thoughts and prayers are with you all!!

974630 tn?1248196062
by iontheprize, Feb 06, 2010
Hi All.  In taking a break from Blizzard 2010, I thought I would address ComingClean's question about energy and then add a few things too.

Energy: Last summer, I found sublingual B12 to be amazing in terms of helping with energy.  The research that I did indicated that the sublingual tabs were nearly as effective as getting an injection.  I noticed a difference within 24 hours.

Sleep: Valarian root, passion flower and Melatonin.  The passion flower helped with anxiety and improved sleep as it is supposed to quell "nervous energy".  The mix worked really well for me and one or all of the herbs may help you.  Obviously, just make sure that if you choose to take it, that you can mix the herbs with any medication you may be taking.

Pain: Epsom salt baths were the only thing that helped my body pain.  There were days that I had too much pain to even draw a bath, but when I did, I had peace.  Then I would go to sleep right after the bath.

Hang in there!

~jessica

1011571 tn?1250909074
by Jethro63, Feb 06, 2010
Still workin on this thing.
Im almost sure Im over the physical w/d, but some times I wonder. but the emotional detox is definatly NOT over yet.   This was the 1st day without Ativan (on purpose) so I could see what my brain felt like without it.   Bouts and bouts of tears about just about anything and I chose to cry it on out as long as I could.  Anxiety, heart rate and resperation were all increasing about 6:00 pm so I took an Ativan.  back into the fog.  Does it do any good to cry it out?  some of the tears felt better, but in the long run is it any more cleansing than detoxing fogged out on Ativan?

I knew Tram was causing at least some of my pain -especially the rib grabs and spasms- So was primed to be off it, but had been on it for over 4 years.  How long does it take for my mental faculties to get their **** together?  I have pain related depression that is also lifting so I am taking very small baby steps!!!  I dont know why its taking so long.

I am taking 2 -5HTP and 100 mg melatonin a day and still wake up almost in tears before the 1st Ativan calms things down, but I am praying that I seen a sign it is getting better.

B-12 injections once a week help with energy and T-Lyseen (?) first thing in the morning will give you an energy boost to push thru.

I am managing my last adjustment from my NUCCA Chiro and praying for a pain reduction so I can do a medication reduction.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 07, 2010
From what I've been reading here, it seems that the physical symptoms wane in about a week, but if one is prone to depression, the powerful anti-depressant effects of tram are missed for a much longer period. Do the anti-depressant effects contribute to the illusion of energy as well? As for myself, opiates always had the opposite affect; Tylenol 3, codeine, Demerol, etc. never made me sleepy--at least at prescribed doses. On the other hand, Tylenol by itself always makes me sleepy.

Another ironic and interesting tidbit is that trams do not show up on a drug test--at least not yet. Apparently, they have to test separately for them. Go figure.

1200968 tn?1291694619
by ComingClean, Feb 07, 2010
ughh..Thought I had gotten thru the worst of it. Day 5 of Cold Turkey hell...last nite only got about 3 hrs sleep, even with the melatonin. Have to go out and shovel the rest of this snow out and watch the kids the rest of the day. It's going to be interesting. Might try to get to GNC this afternoon. Hope everyone is doing ok...more later

Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 07, 2010
Chess: great question. 'Do the anti-depressant effects contribute to the illusion of energy?'  Very possible I would think.  When I am depressed I feel very tired too.  And when I'm happy, I have ENERGY! I suppose they go hand in hand. The brain is an amazing thing!  
Jethro:  Congrats on 29 days Jethro! For me: Days 1-7 were pure physical(and mental) ****, then the depression stayed for weeks(maybe 4 or 5 additional)beyond and the LETHARGY-UGH! Walking through quick sand-that was possibly the worst part. Everything was so hard to accomplish and it was hard to break out a smile(and I am naturally a "smiley" person) and I was sure everyone noticed.  I think everyone is different with regards to the depression/lack of energy aspect of w/d, but it applied to me for 6 weeks, BIG TIME. But, it did get better. And by day 45, I felt back to "normal"...finally.    
During my 6 week w/d, I tried every "natural" remedy I could find and NOTHING helped. My body wanted me to feel every bit of pain and torture. That's why I wonder how I could have ever relapsed!  Three times in 4 years!  And each time it got exponentially worse.  Which leads me to my question: How do we prevent relapsing? I've used T's to numb and mask feelings and give a"boost" to daily life for years. Now what?  How do (we)I prevent using? Does anyone have an idea? What tools or coping methods do you all use?  I notice the more I keep in touch here on this post, the better.  The truth keeps coming out and that is freeing.
Also, due to my husbands suspicions of me taking T's over the years, he has asked me to get drug tested. And I happily did knowing T does NOT show up.  Awful, I know, I know...(sigh, head down).
Comingclean: keep going man!  You have a great attitude and the more you stay connected here in these first days, weeks and months, the better.  You're doing great and it does get WAY better. Promise.

Enjoy the Superbowl everyone. And GO Colts!

Bode

Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 07, 2010
Jethro: Re. Ativan. Is that like xanax? If it is, maybe that needs to be weened off of too. CT of anything is so hard. Give yourself a while longer to get past the T w/d and then wean off the Ativan if you want to try a bit of a gentler appraoch.  Just a thought...

Bode

974630 tn?1248196062
by iontheprize, Feb 07, 2010
Jethro...I still remember watching a progam that addressed the chemical components of tears.  So things like crying in joy, crying at a movie, crying in sadness...etc were researched.  People collected their tears in test tubes and the chemical components of tears varied according to the emotion that brought about tears; hence, giving scientific credibility to the phrase "having a good cry."  The thought is that sometimes tears may actually release "toxins" and help us to feel better emotionally upon that release.  I saw this some years ago, so don't remember much more than that.

~jessica

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 07, 2010
Hello fellow tram warriors...i continue to be in awe of the posts out here...so many have touched on every single aspect of my own personal experience with Tramadol..talk about walking out of the darkness...thank you everyone. i am noticing since my taper  the cold symptoms..sneezing, runny nose, sinus issues...also..as others have mentioned...my energy is very low..the depression is pretty intense..and the more i taper..the more i seem to want to turn to food or alcohol..to fill up the emptiness ..truly i am an addict ..no doubt about it..  speaking of Vitamin D..i was tested and my levell is ridiculously low...my doc just told me to take 1000iu a day..not sure this is enough...again i am wondering about the wisdom of trying an antidepressant while tapering off...but concerned with the serotonin syndrome..thanks to all for the b12 sublingual suggestion..i iwill try that.  Coming Clean, Jethro..congratulations on your withdrawal..amazing...keep posting...Please everyone keep posting...good or bad, high or low...I now know that this community is essential beyond belief to my own recovery.  
gratitude and so many blessings.
Desperate Gran..Pat

1200968 tn?1291694619
by ComingClean, Feb 07, 2010
Thank you so much for the support desperategrndma...I'm just going to take one day at a time and see how it goes. I have done some research online for the b12 sublingual tabs. I think you can get 500mcg, 1000mcg,1500mcg, and 5000mcg at GNC. Not really sure how much you are supposed to take but I've heard that you cannot OD on anything on it. Also for the antidepressant, I've heard that 5htp is supposed to help with mood swings, anxiety,...etc. Also available at your local GNC. I truly hope you start feeling better and just know we are all in this battle together! Until next time...

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 07, 2010
jethro- ativan is physically addicting when taken everyday over time. the sudden drop in blood levels causes anxiety and restlessness. maybe you are having some of this. it is easy to think these feeling are 'ours' when they really are caused by w/d too rapidly. go easy dropping down on the ativan...indeed I had tremendous 'waves' of anxiety during the weeks after c/t tram w/d...so much so that I relapsed recently. I went to the doc and am now on medication that is helping a lot!! keep going, keep posting  we are here
comingclean-I had a refill waiting and...lo and behold! I refilled it. I hope you don't. I really do. It was NOT a good idea.

I have always been drawn to stimulants. coffee, nicotine.....I am there...sudaphed? ok...I like energy and have been using nicotine gum and loads of coffee daily for years. I liked Tram energy, too. I like to get a lot done. I am a human 'doing' rather than a human 'being' ...... my self concept, feeling of adequacy and competency is so tied up in getting a lot done.

I am reading The Infinite Way by J. Goldsmith    it is really cool
ok all.........keep going  I BELIEVE IN YOU
thanks for being here
  

1200968 tn?1291694619
by ComingClean, Feb 07, 2010
I know exactly what your talking about 4leefclover. I too have also always been drawn to stimulants, and actually 2nd day of withdrawl contemplated going to local drugstore to get ephedrine, or sudafed. But I didn't because I hate the coming down of that stuff. That is why I am so interested in this vitamin B12 I keep hearing about.  As for the refill I still have like 15 days before I can get...and that is 120ct. so yeah, hopefully I will be in a better place by then. This post does really help though. Again thanks for all the support!

Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 07, 2010
Now I remember how and why I relapsed this last time.  I swear, T's has taken part of my memory away! I want to share this, to vent, to get thoughts and opinions. So I will remember why it all happened.

I had been clean for 6 months and doing pretty well.  Then...something happened, something very diffiicult. I wish I had a husband who would listen, be patient and non-judging. My husband does not like to "talk" and I was alone. He actually acts like he hates me most the time, yet doesn't want me to leave. It's maddening! He likes to squish me down like a bug so I'll never leave....but that's besides the point. BUT, I didnt relapse and continued in a fragile state.

Weeks later I was competing in a tennis tourni at Yale and was really determined to help my team win, thus running down any and every ball, jamming my feet into the front of my sneakers. I knew after the match that something was up with my two big toenails and toes. An hour later I could barely walk, the pain was so bad. Next day went to local walk-in place and they had to drill holes through my toenails to release all the blood that had pooled underneath-I know, GROSS! And painful.  Hence, the MOMENT...the moment the nurse practitioner wrote me a script for 2 weeks worth of Tramadol. I could hear her say, "this is a nice little pain killer that will work wonders" My heart fell, I was frozen. I wanted to say "NO!!", I wanted to tell her I'm an addict and 6 months clean, but the words never came out. I was frozen, and a tiny part of me was thrilled to actually have a real need for these pain killers. It was different, I thought. I truly have pain, so I can take them...... That's when I caved. I was in a weakened, fragile state to begin with, no husband to turn to, and then the temptation dangling in front of my face.  I was weak and I caved. It was very very bad timing.  

I'm sure there will times like this in the furture where it will being sitting in front of my face and in a weak moment I may cave again. But I can't. I can not go through this again.

Thanks for listening to me babble....but there must be a reason I need to vent.

xo
Bode


Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 07, 2010
Wanting to add, that, my husband may not be a great listener and is not very nice to me a lot of the time, but, my relapse was in no way his fault. I only wish I had more support from him in times of need.

That said, thank you all for being here for me. I really love you guys.

xo
Bode

1059641 tn?1277525976
by forget_me_not, Feb 07, 2010
Greetings, Warriors!

I'm back.  Although I haven't posted in quite a while, I've been keeping an eye on everyone's progress here and I have to say, I am amazed and SO proud of each of you and your courage in confronting this demon.  As we all know, it's the Fight Of Our Lives, and winning is the only option we have.  Sharing strategies here, talking about what works and what doesn't, is literally live-saving for many of us, myself included.  I don't know how I could have done it without this forum.

My time away.  As some of you know, I struggled with PAWS-related problems: cognitive issues, depression, etc.  Depression.  From the beginning of my journey out of the jaws of tramadol dependency I knew that was going to be something that would have to be reckoned with at some point.  It was why I became addicted to begin with.  I have struggled with major depression since I was a teenager, maybe even before that.  And tramadol, in the beginning, seemed to be the panacea that made me normal.  And you know the rest of the story.

So I am 20-something weeks into freedom.  The depression has been SEVERE for about the last four weeks, and I didn't want to get on here and talk about it out of the fear that it would frighten those just getting free of this addiction, or considering making the leap to freedom.  It's a problem that existed for me long before tramadol, long before PAWS, and it's still there unfortunately.  Last week I made an important decision.  I went to my doctor for help.  After a long discussion, we decided that Wellbutrin might be a good option for me to explore.  I had researched it already and felt comfortable giving it a try.  I am taking it in faith that it will help restore my brain in the ways it is broken.  If not, I will keep trying.  

I am ok.  I am going to be ok.  That is faith, people, because many days I just don't feel it.  But because of all of you, I am standing firm on my faith that we can find our way through Life After Tramadol together.

I have missed writing.  Most of all, I am so, so proud of ALL of you.  Fight on, Warriors.

blessings,
~fmn

1059641 tn?1277525976
by forget_me_not, Feb 07, 2010
And Pharma, you were with me at the doctor visit.  I had my B-12 level checked and got an injection while I was there.  Thank you.

Love,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by JG525, Feb 07, 2010
4leef-  Sorry for not replying sooner.  I’ve been out of town.  I think the prozac has started helping or maybe the effexor is letting up.  I’m still moody, but not as much and not as weird feeling in my head.  I don’t think my doctor plans to keep me on it long.   It’s considered “safer” in pregnancy than most, but not ideal.  It’s older, so they have more information.  I had a friend who took it and her baby was fine.  I’m on 1.5mg of klonopin at night.  Down from 2mg for a long time.

I relate to your caffeine and nicotine addictions too.  I gave up nicotine almost 4 yrs ago, but not caffeine.  It’s on the list!  I always gravitated towards speedy drugs.

I’m sorry you are having such a rough time of it.  I know that type of anger well.

Cheryl- My Vit D was very low too and I’m 30.  I’m still on Vit D.

Fmn- Hope the wellbutrin works for you!

Jenny


Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 07, 2010
Forgetme not...How nice to come home from work and hear from you.I missed you while you were not posting.
I still think most of your PAWS problems are probably related to the b12.I'll even bet you were low in b12 even as a teenager and are suffering some of the effects of longterm b12 defiency.I sincerely believe that people who have as i say..."bottomed out in b12 levels"..are always more prone to related problems even when the levels are brought back to supposed normal levels.The books say levels around 300 to 400 are acceptable,but I feel people need higher levels than that esp if they have bottomed out before.I also believe that women who have had low b12 levels anytime in their lives are more prone the menopause and hormone related psychiatric problems..eg depression,panic attacks etc.This is because many brain cells were lost during the low levels and your levels should be topped up at a much higher level than 300 or so.I would probably suggest blood levels of 900 to 1000.
Methycobalamine is better than cyanocobalamine if taken under the tongue and one should take at least 1000mcg/day.
I hope wellbutrin works for you.In my research I have learned that it is the only antidepressant that does not put on weight or affect sexual functions(both important factors) and is probably the easiest to discontinue if needed.
It increases mainly dopamine in the brain,but also norepinephrine.It does not make you sleepy.
It also helps decrease desire for nicotine.

1059641 tn?1277525976
by forget_me_not, Feb 07, 2010
Pharma, thank you so much.  Your support on this forum is invaluable, as you know, and we all love you and thank you from the bottom of our hearts for taking the time to help guide us through this madness.  

I took Wellbutrin for a short time about seven years ago, and it was the only AD that ever showed any promise for me.  And I've taken many over the years.  I don't want to have to take a pill every day for the rest of my life.  I hope the bupropion will help as I deal with the other issues in my life that are undoubtedly contributing to the depression, too.  Thankfully I had no problems discontinuing it before, so I'm comfortable taking it for a while.

I hope others here will heed your advice as well and get their B12 levels checked.  It also seems that low vitamin D is a common factor among many of us.  I haven't had my vitamin D level checked, but I know it's implicated as well in many of our symptoms -- depression, fatigue, brain fog -- symptoms that might have made us predisposed, or at least more vulnerable to tramadol's vicious trap.

Is Vitamin D safe to take if one isn't deficient (or in my case, doesn't know)?

blessings,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 07, 2010
Doctors are now recommending 2000UvitD daily in winter and 1000U/day in summer for everyone.I take 2000U vit d/day,still take b12 1000mcg/day under the tongue(methycobolamine)Omega3,coenzyme Q10 200mg,B complex with VitC and Zinc ,folic acid.I have no problems with depression or anxiety
Today another customer dropped off a bag of old drugs to destroy.In it I found oxy's and tramadol samples.I blissfully fizzed them away in bleach.In the old days I would have taken any codeine products expired or not for myself.I don't do that anymore.
Doctors here are also measuring vitamin D levels and finding people are deficient.
Yes you can take 2000U vitamin D in winter and 1000u vit d in summer even if not deficient.If deficient some doctors recommend up to 5000U/day.

Avatar universal
by Sierra7760, Feb 08, 2010
Wow! Lots of new people. Glad to see everyone has found help for tram here. At the same time I'm sorry the had to.

Well, 11 days completely off tram. Still having a bit of night sweats--very light. And light depression comes and goes. The anxiety is getting me the most, though. I keep trying to give it to the Lord; He lifts it and then a few hours I'm freaking out about things again and I'm handing it back over to the Lord again. What a spiritual (/physical) battle. I guess God versus the evil effects of tram. LOL. I just have to keep reminding myself that the Lord can help me through anything no matter how desperate and hopeless I think I am. I'm just having such a hard time thinking straight and sitting still. Just trying to keep myself busy with everything I've got to do. Melatonin is a must to sleep, along with prayers.

Keep hangin in there everyone,

Sierra

1106880 tn?1260898678
by wantmyselfback, Feb 08, 2010
Hey Warriors!  Keep on posting!  Was wondering about you FMN.  You helped me get through the thick of it.

Now 60 plus days tram-free and loving life.  Thanks so much!

I really can't stress enough the importance of this site.  It helped me through the worst of it, during the weeks of malaise after the initial withdrawal, to the point where I am now.

I am glad I made the jump off tramadol.  If you would've asked me three months ago if I would still be on them, I probably would've thought I'd be on Tramadol until the very end.  It does put such a fog around you, your life, and your thinking.

Making it through the w/d and drudging through the first few weeks until you start to get your energy back is key.  

Just keep posting and you'll get through it... I promise!

:)  Stay strong.  You can and WILL do it!

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 08, 2010
From reading posts here it seems like Tramadol is almost instantly addicting...I wonder if there's any dosage or length of time that is useful for this drug. For example, you can Vicodin or Tylenol 3 for two weeks without any withdrawal symptoms, but apparently not Tramadol.

1059641 tn?1277525976
by forget_me_not, Feb 08, 2010
Wantmyself, I remember when you first posted, how tremendous this whole process was stretching out in front of you like a million mile journey.  And you were so courageous when you took those first steps, then the next ones, and I have watched as you Just Kept Going.  And that's what it takes.  We all have to Just Keep Going, no matter what.  Because what option do we have?  To run back into the arms of the abuser?  We know how that works out.  To just lie down and die?  The thought crosses all our minds at some point in WD, I'm pretty confident.  But no, for whatever reason, that just is not acceptable.  And those pretty well sum up the options.  All journeys are completed the same way: one step at a time.  Even the longest and hardest.  This is no different.

So wherever each of you may be today, please, I ask you to Just Keep Going.  If you are in early WD, know (KNOW) that it gets better.  Quickly too, in the big scheme of things.  If you are a little further out and still suffering malaise and depression, trust us, that also gets better.  It's not linear.  It's crazy and chaotic.  We go up and soar high above the wreckage, then we hit turbulence.  We plummet into a nosedive some days, but the big difference is that now those moments are BRIEF.  Just a twinkling of an eye, right?  Just hang on.

Wantmyself, you've come SO far, from a frightened child in the grip of the abuser, to a strong, capable survivor who is helping to lead others out of the madness.  You're my inspiration day after day, as I'm sure you are to many others. Thank you.

Going to go out today and pick up some Vitamin D, CoQ10, and Omega 3.  I am fighting the depression tooth and nail in the belief that my brain CAN work right if it is given the chance to heal with some TLC (and a lot of hard work).

Love to each and every one of you this day.  Know you are not alone.  And Just Keep Going.

~fmn

1059641 tn?1277525976
by forget_me_not, Feb 08, 2010
Chess, I have a friend who took 200mg daily for four days, and upon stopping, suffered really bad withdrawal.  She had no idea what was going on until I talked to her and explained it.  Her experience may not be typical, but it's one I can share.

~fmn

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 08, 2010
Wow! That is almost like instant addiction. For myself, I've noticed 50 mg/day for a week, and I feel withdrawal. Unfortunately, I sprained my neck which is slowly improving, and am taking half a tab a day. Don't think I'll feel like a got the flu when I go off them, but a strong lethargy (which I can handle). Restless legs at night though is the worst, though. Want to go down to a quarter tablet (12.5 mg) before I go off completely.

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 08, 2010
Hello Warriors All-
great discussion here, FMN thanks for the synopsis on the journey free---well spoken! pharma- thanks for the B12 rec- I am looking into that this morning.

I took 5 days of tram at 100-150 when I relapsed after a month off and had some big trouble with symptoms for 72 hours. Not as bad as the C/T from higher doses, but very significant. If a drug can 'lock down' the body in such a short script, it is one dangerous drug. I relapsed over the resultant anxiety in the weeks following that first 5 days of hell.

It IS like crawling away from the jaws of hell, mosquito bitten, through the thistles and sharp brush under heavy fire over a tall mountain ridge--
my mind was ON FIRE off the Tram- waves of anxiety and depression ---wait a minute here---I NEED HELP!

I am now under the care of a psychiatrist, he knows the whole story. I have started on some medication to help and it is working for me.
In the time it took to find this Doctor (hey, I am NOT just going to anyone....I think you all know why) I got a referral from a very trusted friend and had to wait to get in.....my solution in the wait time? relapse...I did NOT know what to do....
glad it was only 5 days and I do NOT recommend this...be MORE proactive than me--as wantmyselfback says so well.....if you are struggling start finding some help immediately....cause my experience was week after week of restlessness....I feared I would 'break' in some way
TRAM is poison.
be well all, I Believe in You
  

Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 08, 2010
4leef-so glad you are seeing a good doctor. I can really understand why you relapsed, you were really struggling. But now you are on the right path. Way to go!  I also relapsed during a fragile state of mind.  I was prescribed Tram for the real pain I had in my feet and I justified taking again it for that reason.  What a bad choice that was!

Sierra-11 days is awesome! It is still relatively early in your recovery, it does get better.  I like your spiritual thoughts and faith, I wish I had that to go to in times of need.

Thinking of you all.

Bode
  

Avatar universal
by Sierra7760, Feb 08, 2010
Thanks, Bode. Yeah, it's 12 days now. Last time I only got to 10 days when the depression, anxiety and insomnia kicked in. But, I didn't have the info I have now about all the supplements  to take. Still keeping on St. Johns Wort, melatonin, and the omegas. Of course a bunch of other vits and minerals I've been taking all along. and I'm also taking some B complex. Anything that helps. And I praise the Lord for keeping me going and for you all and your help.

Sierra

1106880 tn?1260898678
by wantmyselfback, Feb 08, 2010
I came upon a hidden stash today out in my shed.  I wonder why I put four of them there in the first place.  Probably one night or day I had some in my pocket and figured I'd come looking somewhere during my desparate waning hours of waiting for my next prescription to come.  The good news is I didn't take them.  I have to admit, they do cross your mind when you're looking right at them.  These little devil pills.  I can't believe they're not considered right up there with real opiates.  I LOATHE these things, and I guess that's a good thing for a recovering addict.  I've found that two things keep/prevent me from taking these things ever again:  The absolute hell and agony I went through during my first 72 hours of withdrawal, and the fact that I can look myself in the mirror and call myself an "addict.'  That is a powerful word, but when used in good context, can make you look at yourself a little differently.  Before, I would've fought tooth and nail saying "Oh I'm not addicted, I have real bad back pain...." or "I take these because ibuprofren or tylenol doesn't work," etc.  You know the excuses as to why we constantly take these things.  Truth is, by the end, I wasn't even taking them for pain anymore, but because I wanted to be able to function and feel energized.  

At 60 plus days out, I can honestly say I have just as much energy (if not more) than when I was on Tramadol, which I would never have thought was possible.  Yet, being on tramadol for six straight years, I think I have to get used to living "sober," which I have to admit, I thoroughly enjoy!  I see things a lot differently now that I'm off of the Tramadol.  For years I thought they made me a better, more-energized, ahead-of-the-game superhero.  That was all just an illusion.  I'm the real me.... no prescription needed!  I'm just your over-the-counter type kinda guy now... which I couldn't be happier.

For all those out there, just hang in there.  Find something to keep yourself busy and seek help/advice from a good friend or doctor that you can trust.  Honesty is a great aid in this withdrawal process.  I came clean with the wife after hiding a six year lie, and that seems to have helped me the most during this difficult time.  I'm staying active, getting support, and most importantly, enjoying life (yes- even shoveling over two feet of snow) one breath at a time.

We're here to help, and I constantly seek your advice as well.  Thanks again Emily, FMN, and all for liberating me from the tramadevil and allowing me to get my life back before it was too late.  I am forever grateful for that.

:)

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 08, 2010
Thanks Bode-- I hope you realize how much you offer others!! How are things going 4 you?
Sierra- so faithful! wonderful to read your work with God! congrats on 12 days
Thanks Want-- for your sharing of your journey out of bondage.
Chess, comingclean, Jethro, and Jen--hope you are all having a wonderful evening!!
happy, joyous and FREE
Keep Going, make sure you get all the Help you Need...
Bless you All


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by ComingClean, Feb 08, 2010
Hey guys,
I'm on C/T Day 6 and just ok for now..How is everyone tonight? My thoughts and prayers are with you all! Sleep finally came to me last night. A small miracle. My coffee tasted a little better than usual and actually had a decent time going out to the store. Came home and fixed a great dinner for my family. So today has been ok. I'm still having the awful cravings...had a chance to have some evilness earlier, and I thought way too long about it, but finally decided I should just go home. I felt really good coming home. Little things matter so much sometimes. Again I hope everyone is well!

Avatar universal
by sososo, Feb 08, 2010
what about that new help method that puts and under and u wake up free of drugs

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 08, 2010
If it works Michael Jackson should have been free many times.Instead he got addicted to the anaesthetic.

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by forget_me_not, Feb 08, 2010
Sososo, I have heard about programs that claim to knock the addict out during the acute withdrawal period, somehow curing them in their sleep.  Gosh, I bet most, if not all of us, during the intense pain and misery of tramadol withdrawal, would have experienced a pause at such an offer.

The merits of any such program aside, I have my own "take" on the whole withdrawal experience.  And I've been through it a number of times -- three to be exact.  First time I ran out for four days, got the refill, and was feeling all better in a couple of hours.  Second time I tried to stop and just was not strong enough to endure the WD.  Third time I was mad. Really mad.  At myself, at the drug, at the addiction, at all it had cost me, for which there is no value that can be calculated.

My take is this.  The suffering we endure is an important part of healing for many of us.  Please understand, I don't like suffering and will go to great lengths to avoid it.  However, I think many of us don't realize the true nature and character of our enemy until we see how far down it can push us.  How close to the brink it will take us.  Sometimes it takes that kind of experience to reach the kind of resolve that pushes one to achieve long-term sobriety.  A memory that is forever etched into all our minds.  Suffering so profound there are no words for it, only flashes of memory that will haunt us for the rest of our lives (and hopefully keep us clean).  For me, it's being out in a hailstorm at 3am, searching under the car seats and carpet for that one pill I might have dropped, that one pill that would end the torment.  And lying in the bathroom floor, soaking wet with sweat and rain and pelted with hailstones, throwing up and crying and praying I would die.  One tends to remember those moments.  They become visceral, part of our flesh.  I can feel it now and it is still painful.

So, I guess I feel there's some "purification" through our suffering wherein the demon is exorcised from us.  I don't know.  That was the case for me.  I made a very deliberate effort to really feel every second of the pain and promised I would never, ever forget.  And I won't.

Peace and love to all of you tonight, Warriors.  Fight on.

~fmn

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by forget_me_not, Feb 08, 2010
Emily, reading the miracles happening here, I feel a strong need to say "Thank you" for creating this space and keeping it going.  What an amazing healing place this is.

When I found you I had little hope.  Well, none, actually.  I had given up.  This place gave me the strength to abandon my murderer, to leave it in the darkness where it belongs.  To live and trust that there was hope even if I couldn't feel it.  And I couldn't feel it.  

I love the Spanish language.  I love the words, "yo espero", which means in Spanish both "I hope" and "I wait".  I love that the two are synonymous in Spanish.  They are such beautiful words, and they feel so wonderful when you speak them.  During the darkest hours of withdrawal, I closed my eyes and whispered them over and over and over.  They soothed my spirit then.  Maybe they will soothe yours, too.

Hope for a better tomorrow, Warriors, and Wait.  Just wait.  It is coming.

peace,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by newway, Feb 08, 2010
While I don't post much - I still read what everyone is sharing - it helps keep the reality of the addiction real.
I am 2 months t- free from a 5 year  tramadol and opiate addiction.  Finally, I am starting to feel better.  My energy is consistant and my sleep is okay.  
Now I have to deal with living life without the numbing - I thought getting clean would be the tough part - but no matter how tough the withdrawal was - trying to live day to day without the escape is really difficult for me.  I am anxious and find it difficult to stay focused.
Funny - I don't remember the fog, the exhaustion, the hoplessness - what I want is that high, the feel good feeling, the energy.  I will actually find myself waiting for it to kick in - waiting for the high.
So now I have to figure out how to live day to day - to enjoy life.
I really did think that once clean all would fall into place, life would start to get better - but there is work I have to do.  Apparently sitting around and waiting for change does not work. lol

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by forget_me_not, Feb 09, 2010
Newway, it is so good to hear from you.  Long-term sobriety really is challenging for those of us who benefited from the numbing aspects of tramadol.  It wasn't so much numb for me, but my emotions were capped off.  There was a pressure valve in place, and now it's gone.  Now it's like living in a hurricane.  There may be a small eye of calm resolve, but swirling all around that are crazy winds.  Anger, sadness, frustration, as well as good emotions, are just amplified, sometimes to unmanageable levels.  It becomes almost unbearable.  I want to feel, but not so much that it's crippling, and I have really struggled with that.

Perhaps we have forgotten (or in some cases, we never developed) the ability to regulate our emotions via thoughts and other methods.  Plate breaking was one of my favorites.

Maybe those further out than we are will share what helped them.  Because I really need the help.

Love to you, and may you all have peace today.

~fmn

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 09, 2010
I want to congratulate you all on your efforts to quit trams. I was remembering a few months ago when I was forced to go cold turkey because of food poisoning. I felt the worst for 3 days--no coffee, trams or anything--nothing would stay down, and had a fever to boot. For those on a high dosage, that kind of forced cold turkey would likely be dangerous. It's almost impossible me to fathom anyone on 20 pills a day--even 10! Your bodies much have a much higher tolerance than most, and at that dose probably the nerves and neurotransmitters that respond to tram are exhausted, so tapering is essential. Probably a good idea to get professional help (if you can afford it), rather than go it alone.

Sierra writes:

"Still keeping on St. Johns Wort, melatonin, and the omegas. Of course a bunch of other vits and minerals I've been taking all along. and I'm also taking some B complex. Anything that helps. And I praise the Lord for keeping me going and for you all and your help."

I thought of St. Johns Wort too, Sierra, and was wondering it was really helping you or not. I'm having good results with coenzyme q-10 is well (30-100 mg daily), though too many B's tend to make me hyper. The B-12 seems interesting, as well as taking more Vitamin D.

Can someone elaborate more on the how Vitamin D affects mood and withdrawal symptoms. I haven't been tested for that yet, but take 1000 IU, every other day.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 09, 2010
On a trivial note: I was wondering if you all thought MJ's doctor was really the villain he is being made out to be by the media, or was sincerely trying to help MJ quit.

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 09, 2010
Hi All.  just need to say i am so weary today..a week of taper..feel like someone has beat the crap out of me.  on verge of tears ..angry..not able to function with my job very well. Feel like i have the flu and just want to stay in bed.  I read your posts and i know there's light somewhere out there..but the illusion of well being and energy that the tram presents is really pulling at me. I've come clean with one friend.. Friday I will come clean with my Doc..yes, the one who helped me start this journey a few years ago..but honestly, I really feel he was naive.  because of a back injury he had me on oxy and other narcotics..i could not handle those. so he put me on tram believing it was gentler, easier way to deal with the pain.  Only recently when im a week early to refill my monthly script has he questioned why I am taking so many and that perhaps the tram may be more addictive than originally thought. again i cannot begin to tell you all how much it means to come here ...the comfort..support, the wisdom, absence of judgement..the knowledge that i am not alone...again..i thank you from this hurting heart.
Keep posting...Bless you all...Stay strong..
hugs,
desperate gran..pat

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by forget_me_not, Feb 09, 2010
Pat, hugs to you this morning.  Of course you feel awful!  It's terrible coming out of the grip of this poison after it wreaks havoc on our brains and bodies.  The pain of withdrawal (which is what you are experiencing, even in a taper) is tremendous.  It's awful.  It's unthinkable.  But we've been there with you and we understand, and are here to support you in any way we can.

I know you're feeling down this morning.  Coming on here and sharing it is a good place to start.  I don't know your job, but if you can, set some specific, doable goals for yourself today and focus on those, minute by minute.  One breath at a time.  Sometimes the diversion of having something to do -- even if it's intimidating because you feel so terrible -- can actually help.  Small, doable goals.

Coming clean with your doctor...yes.  I never did do that.  I wish I could have, but I know him and he would have kept telling me that tramadol isn't addictive. That it's a safe, non-habit forming alternative to narcotics, and also has  :mild anti-depressant properties: .  Those words will always make me nauseated.

Much love to you.  If we can help, let us.

~fmn

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by forget_me_not, Feb 09, 2010
Chess, Vitamin D seems to be correlated with many of the symptoms that a lot of us experience, which may have made us more vulnerable to the "benefits" of tramadol (energy, mood, etc.).  I am not aware that any causal relationship has been established, but many people with depression, chronic fatigue syndrome, and fibromyalgia have been found to be deficient.

Taking 1000u daily is the recommendation according to Pharma, our resident expert.  2000u during the winter months.  I am definitely going to add it to my daily regimen of supplements.

~fmn

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 09, 2010
FMN...Thanks so much for your post...and for your suggestion for the day..i will seek to accomplish a few small thinigs..really a good idea...keep my focus off of how stinking bad i feel. you are one of my angels to be sure...
thanks again..i will keep warrioring on.
Pat

Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 09, 2010
Good Morning All,

I haven't posted in a few days, but have kept reading the posts and have continued to gain inspiration and the knowledge that a light at the end of the WD tunnel is getting ever so close.

Today is day 9 for me.  It also represents the first full night of sleep.  The lack of sleep and energy have been devastating to me and I am so pissed off that I have basically lost an entire week of my life living in a fog of pain, stomach distress, body pain and exhaustion because a Doctor, as Emily once posted, made an executive decision for me and gave me a perscription of Tramadol.  

Coming clean with my Mother and God are the two things that have helped me through this entire ordeal.

The really hard part is in front of me now.  How do I approach life again without being medicated?  I don't remember how to do that.  I can relate now to how a smoker needs to light up when driving. Getting out of the habit is the hard part. The retraining of my brain to not NEED medication before events, meetings, getting out of bed...... is what I am finding most difficult to push through.

Christian music has been an amazing aid thus far and I highly recommend it!  I am letting God drive my car right now and I love the Freeway he has chosen for me.

I wish all of you the strength to keep pushing!!!!





Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 09, 2010
but does anyone ever feel like they got ADD...when trying to get off tram..part of my problem i cannot focus on anything..my mind is all over the place...25 things started...nothing finished..that's part of my problem with work..quotes not finished, promises made and forgotten about...all this leads to upset customers...upset bosses....can anyone relate?  can anyone help???  do any of the supplements assist with this???

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by ComingClean, Feb 09, 2010
Today is Day 6 for me and I feel like crap. Do you guys think that I should call my Doc. and explain my situation, no matter how hard that will be for me and ask to get enough tram. to taper? I really dont know how to tell her that I have no more and yet still have 15 days until I can get again. Please any help or suggestions would be great. Im miserable here. Thanks again everyone!

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by forget_me_not, Feb 09, 2010
Pat, I struggle to this day with the cognitive problems -- memory, word-finding, and train of thought are still off and on.  That's part of the process of clearing this poison from our brains.  Please, whatever you do, be gentle with yourself right now.  I had to make a grocery list for only two things!  I couldn't remember that much.  I had to write down EVERYTHING and make notes for anything I had to remember.  And I still missed a lot of things, but the good news is, it gets better quickly.  Not linear, but over time, it gets better.  In the mean time, make those notes, write it down, put the notes in places you won't miss (the refrigerator, the bathroom mirror worked well for me -- and on my computer monitor!).  Most of all, be gentle with yourself.  Others are often much more forgiving when we struggle than we are to ourselves.

ComingClean, I feel your misery.  Gosh, I wish I could tell you the "right" answer for you.  I am tending toward the advice 4leef (I think) gave, which is to get help if you are struggling.  Get help.  Go to your doctor and just be truthful.  Most doctors do not want their patients to suffer, and you are suffering.  Just explain it, let him/her know that you want to be free from this addiction, and ask for help.  We will do anything we can to help.

peace where it is needed this day,
~fmn

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by forget_me_not, Feb 09, 2010
ComingClean, I have to add that, at six days, you are probably nearing a turning point.  I don't want to encourage you to continue if the suffering is unbearable.  I understand.  But you are nearing a turning point.  Things WILL improve if you can hang on.  If you cannot hang on, goodness knows we all understand.  We've been there, too.

If I can help, I will.

~fmn

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by ComingClean, Feb 09, 2010
At this point I know Im almost out of the woods but I am miserable. I just don't know how to explain to Doc how I'm 15 days short of refill with none left and asking for more to taper. she doesnt know I have a problem with them. Any help would be great...ty

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 09, 2010
Comingclean: Are you symptoms more physical or emotional?

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 09, 2010
Comingclean: since you've already gone 6 days, if there's any way possible, you should probably hang in there, but ultimately only you can decide.

Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 09, 2010
ComingClean - Hang on!! You can do it!!!  I am at day 9 and if I can do this anybody can!  I am the biggest wimp around. If you are having serious depression and anxiety - that might warrant a call to the Doc -but if it is physical and lack of sleep - just hang in there as this will pass.

DespGranma - do we work for the same company?  :)  I am in the same boat you are.  I sit at my desk and feel overwhelmed by every project that I have to complete.  Bids, quotes, return phone calls, you name it and I have missed those deadlines.  I recently told one client that I have been going thru a health issue and am working with a doctor to determine it's cause (huge lie) and to please bear with me.  I got the client to back off and let me work at my own pace.
Try this and see if it will buy you some time.

It's unfortunate that everything I say to those around me seems to be a lie right now - but I can't spill the beans and I need to keep my job.

I am incredibly stoked today that I feel so much better and rested and I know that tomorrow will be even better.

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by ComingClean, Feb 09, 2010
Well, I have my Klonopin that I take so that helps with the sleep. But right now its the lack of energy and depression. I'm still having really bad physical W/D symptoms as well. I've hung in there for 5 days the last time I tried to detox and relapsed. Man, I am so weak right now. I called the doc earlier, I will try to explain the situation as best as possible. Btw..I was on SUPPOSED to take 400mg. a day, but when I had , I was taking up to 800-1000mg a day. Sometimes more. I just dont know what to do.

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by ComingClean, Feb 09, 2010
On another note, I want to apologize to everyone who is fighting this battle and winning. I feel really bad because you guys are doing so good and here I am trying to get the little devils. I'm so ashamed

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by forget_me_not, Feb 09, 2010
ComingClean, ultimately this is something only you can decide based on whether or not the suffering is something you can make it through.  I was suicidal during acute WD, scared to death I would act on it in a moment of irrationality.  Thank God that never happened, I toughed it out and lived to tell about the whole terrible experience.

When you're suffering it's hard to make a clear-headed decision.  Alleviating the misery usually trumps everything.  Here are a few things to consider:

1. The vast majority of us experienced a dramatic turn around day 7.

2. The withdrawal symptoms will not go away when you taper.  They will still be there for as long as it takes you to taper off.

3. We are here to pull you along through these hours of he!!.  We will help you, minute by minute.

Perhaps if you postpone the decision until tomorrow you will feel more confident making a decision.  Right now, just breathe.  We are right here with you.

~fmn

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by forget_me_not, Feb 09, 2010
NO SHAME, ever!

:-)

We're all in this together.  We understand.  We've been there and we understand.

love,
~fmn

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by ComingClean, Feb 09, 2010
Thank you for all of your support...only time will tell...I hope I have the strength in me to get past this...

Avatar universal
by Icandothis10, Feb 09, 2010
How is everyone doing???  I hope good.  I never did lower my half of pill like I said I was going to, I only lowered it a qtr but it's progress.  

I really hope all of you are doing well.  Hang in there, we're going to do this together.  

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 09, 2010
Thank you Sandia & FMN!  just knowing you are there...means everything.. Coming Clean..i am so sorry ..but please dont shame yourself..you are doing the best that you can right now..this minute.. this is a hard enough battle without adding our shame to it...how do i know this??  im right there with you..that's how..you are trying..you are talking about it...give yourself credit for that..and let the shame go...
prayers for strength for you ...whatever you decide to to..


Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 09, 2010
Please don't apologize for trying to get Trams.  You want relief and taking a pill would make you feel better physically.  How would taking another pill make you feel mentally?  Are you ready for what you are going to unleash on yourself mentally if you are successful with obtaining more Tramadol from your Doc?   Are you ready to go thru withdrawals again - cuz that is what will happen when you fill the prescription and start taking the meds again.  Are you strong enough to taper?

This is what I tell myself when I start thinking about calling my Doctor for a refill.  Am I ready to start this process all over again and waste another week of my life in the pits of WD hell when I run out of medicine to soon?  I'm not willing to do that to myself today.

I am praying for your mental and physical strength and resolve.

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by forget_me_not, Feb 09, 2010
ComingClean, all I know for sure is that you're in the home stretch of acute withdrawal.  Things will improve for you if you stay the course.  Only you know if that's possible for you right now.  Whatever you decide to do, we are here for you and will support you.

One thing that I used to ask myself: If I **knew** with certainty that tomorrow would be better, would I tough it out today?  Of course, yes, I would.  But I didn't know when that tomorrow would be.  All any of us have during acute WD is the knowledge that there is a tomorrow right around the corner that is essentially a whole new world.  It's a world in which you can stand up on your own without tramadol in your blood.  In which you can walk around and see with your own eyes and feel with your own mind.  In which YOU own your*self*.  That tomorrow is right around the corner.

You're in the home stretch.  I don't want you to forget that.

lots of love, support, and healing thoughts to you.
~fmn

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 09, 2010
Hello Warriors!!
Hoping everyone out there is learning alot in this journey toward health and healing!!

Desperategran- Hi Honey! Oh, don't I know the fog, depression and resultant anxiety you are expressing!  I think it has to do with the withdrawal. You are tapering, no? Tram is a very complex drug and the lack or lowering of your blood levels is wreaking havoc on many pathways biochemically. You in and of yourself ARE OK!!! But we must see for ourselves when we need to reach out and get help. I think it is demoralizing coming off tram--I felt incompetent, like a real loser, failure, weak and kind of spineless for awhile....hows THAT for a negative thought trap of relapse soup? Are you thinking of adding an AD?
IT WILL PASS but GET HELP....know that in REALITY you are sitting and purring in the Lap of God, Honey......
I NEEDED to get free of this poison but needed an MD's help....I also have a sponsor in al anon and aa....they both are mentors and know me well....I've had to confront some things about myself and they help me do it because THEY LOVE ME and want to assist me in my path to healing and help.....I am here for you!!!!!
Coming Clean---oh don't I know the misery you express so well....I had waves of deep depression and anxiety pass through me over the course of the day after the first 5 days of abject misery....the physical lingered and was waning but the psychological stuff was just getting started about then for me.....I had to get help...there are many options out there...
some use suboxone or an AD, meanwhile I have started a mood stabilizer because of my bipolar history and it is helping enormously (probably not the solution for most) ---- get all the help you need...when we reach out, in surrender
the Universe will conspire to assist us in achieving Freedom....I am here for you!!!!
Sandi- congrats on day 9!!  glad to hear you are having a 'good day' after the last nine, I am sure you are reveling in it!!
Keep Going
and posting ALL
I Believe in You

To you, to whom this already belongs
there is no need to go outside for better seeing
nor to peer from a window.
Rather, abide at the center of your Being
for the more you leave it, the less you learn
      Lao Tse

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 09, 2010
4 leef...thank you .yes tapering..from 300-400 mg per day down to 125-200 this past week.  who would think that would make such a difference..it is unbelievable...when i say ADD - im referring  (kind of comically) to attention deficit disorder...i can't focus ..can't finish anything..can't  think..no memory...just sludge (is that a real word?).. i lose things constantly..my phone, my camera...bills...are piling up..i can't seem to get the energy together to do much of anything.. sorry..see even here in my post im erratic...not making sense yet i think maybe you know what im talking about?  Wow..what you said about incompetent, loser, failure, weak, spineless..yes that would be me.... on every level.  btw..i am thinking of an antidepressant because depression is an issue for me bigtime..i will talk to the doc about that..i love him dearly..he's a friend..but again he's a bit naive..and i dont know if i can trust his judgement about a good antidepressant..since he started me on the Trams.
12 step..not too sure about that right now..i know we all have our own paths we have to talk toward healing..but i do know the value of the programs ..have helped so many..
thanks again for the support and for reaching out..my heart is with all of you..out there..posting or not..i have never in my life felt such enormous kinship and support.
hugs,
Pat


Avatar universal
by Icandothis10, Feb 09, 2010
desperategrandma,

Do you think maybe you're tapering a bit too much at one time?  I felt the same way but I gave myself time with the taper and feel much better.  PLEASE don't go through hell if you don't have to!  I taper a qtr pill every 8 days or so and my w/d's are GONE!!  

I hope this helps...good luck!!!


Avatar universal
by Icandothis10, Feb 09, 2010
quote:
"Coming clean with your doctor...yes.  I never did do that.  I wish I could have, but I know him and he would have kept telling me that tramadol isn't addictive. That it's a safe, non-habit forming alternative to narcotics, and also has  :mild anti-depressant properties: .  Those words will always make me nauseated"

Isn't that the truth!!??!!

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 09, 2010
ican do...thanks..maybe you are right...i guess when i see people doing cold turkey..i think i should be doing that too..yet 1/4 tab per week seems so benign..i guess that's the point!   appreciate the feedback..

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by EmilyPost, Feb 09, 2010
Yo Espero ... I wait and I hope, what a beautiful sentiment and so true about the experience of coming off pills forever. FMN a lovely saying!

It's been over 600 days since I had Tramadol. Soon it will be 11 months since I had any klonopin. Or any pills. Benzos. Horrible pills. Six Hundred days. That's ALOT of Days. The days I was done ... I was DONE. You know what I mean? I mean my resolve was unshakeable. I was going to do whatever it took. And it took everything I had. Rage helped. A war like attitude helped. They were trying to kill me, so I figured I'd kill them. And I did. I won that War. (And of course many have questions about what you do after you Win That War)

FMN you were talking about the experience and the suffering having meaning. Having Purpose. I believe that as well. Would I ever ever trust a Doctor ever again with my Health and Well Being after what I have been thru? No. Never. That level of trust is completely uncalled for.

Bodegirl Dear Heart; The experience of coming off of pills does indeed throw you back into a State of The Emotional that many people are going to have a hard time managing. It is ... like ... coming out of a Coma. You wake up and long periods of time are gone. During that time you felt very little. Reacted in odd ways. Perhaps you did things that do make you ashamed. That's part of this whole trip. You may not have bought the Ticket. but you are on the train like it or not. So, then the question becomes how to deal.

For those in the acute phase The thing that helped me most b12 sublingual tablets. They always snapped me out of a Tramadol Spin. Always. I also loved the sleep aids that had valerian, passionflower, skullcaps and the like. Heating pads, ice packs ... and most of all Distraction. I think I have watched every movie that has come out in the last nearly two years. And I barely remember some of them! LOL! I always have to laugh when I rent something and it looks familiar .. cause I saw it in deep deep withdrawal.

Coming Clean you may want to hold on a bit and try the Immodium AD.  There's a chemical in it that will give you a slight break from the pain of withdrawal induced hysteria. If I were you, I'd hang on, distract myself and wait. But you know yourself better than I do. Immodium AD (or dollar store equivalent in the form of loperamide) helped me some in acute withdrawal. I'm pretty sure you see me in day 17 or so talking about my "fractured intestines" YMMV

Apple juice mixed with Tonic water helped me.

Eventually emergenC packages in water helped.

At about ten months I started to come out of the benzo trap. It was very bad. It's better now, but not steadily better. My philosophy has always been to get off the pills, and to never take them again. Everyone is different; and I was well aware of how far I could be pushed. I knew my limits. I still have back pain but it has never ever been as bad as it was when I was on all the pills that were supposed to help me.

Get off the pills, stay off the pills.

I was tested for VitD deficiency and did have to suppliment and I still do. Vit D and Stuff for the intestines is all I tolerate these days. I went back to my beloved Yoga back in October.  Recovery is slow. I found lowering my expectations was very helpful.

Be encouraged. One day it will be you. You won't have drug cravings. I have no drug cravings. It is like coming out of a Coma ... one is weakened but filled with gratitude for such small things. I walked up the stairs here at work earlier and Was delighted to find I did not feel as if I weighed 400 pounds. Gravity returns to normal.

Love and Healing,
Emily

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by forget_me_not, Feb 09, 2010
Pat, there's no magic bullet way to get off this stuff.  It's hard any way you do it, and each person has to find what they CAN do and do it.  My attempts at tapering all ended the exact same way: I've done reeeally well for TWO whole days...so I'll make a tiny exception today.  I earned it!  I've done so well!  So for me, CT from 600-800mg daily was the only option.  It was that or continue the madness.  I don't advocate going cold turkey from that high a dose as it is extremely, extremely painful.  

Also, it's useful for many considering a taper to know what their threshold dose is: how far down in dosage can you go before you start experiencing WD?  Because once I hit that point, no matter how tiny my tapers were, I felt ill and ended up caving in.  

Each person must do this in the way that works for them.  Many here have tapered and had good results, just not me.  As with most things in life, with me it's all or nothing.  So it had to be nothing.

4leef, you rock!  I love the part about surrendering.  During the first few days, that was how I survived.  I lay in my anger and physical/emotional pain and just pronated myself to it, as if to say, "OK, I give up.  I have to go through this to know my enemy.  So bring it on."  And it was horrendous.  I wouldn't know the depth and breadth of freedom's goodness if I hadn't experienced the expanse of tramadol's evil.  It was what I had to do, and I made it through.  I am forever changed by it.  

We are all here for all of you, and we'll help any way we can.  If you need something, ASK.  Post, rant, cry, scream.  Don't worry about cursing because you'll get censored anyway.  :-)

peace and healing,
~fmn

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by forget_me_not, Feb 09, 2010
"The days I was done ... I was DONE. You know what I mean? I mean my resolve was unshakeable. I was going to do whatever it took. And it took everything I had. Rage helped. A war like attitude helped. They were trying to kill me, so I figured I'd kill them. And I did. I won that War. (And of course many have questions about what you do after you Win That War)"

YES.  Exactly.  The rage is what pushed me through the initial days of WD, and from there, it's one day at a time.

Emily, we are so thankful.

~fmn

Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 09, 2010
DespGrandma - Icandothis is right - don't kill yourself and taper to quickly.  Don't suffer needlessly as this will only make you want to quit trying to stop taking the pills and nosedive right into a relapse.

Your lack of energy and feeling like you have ADD mirror my emotions of this past week.  Why oh wise people out there, is this a symptom of the withdrawal?  Is it the AD component of Tram?

I have never been addicted to anything until this and I just don't understand why my sleep and my brain have been hit the hardest?  I get the physical part.

I am very grateful and thankful that I haven't suffered any anxiety or depression!!

4leef - you rock!  I love it when you post.  You have a lovely way with the written word.

Susan

Avatar universal
by Icandothis10, Feb 09, 2010
DespGramdma, forgetmenot is correct, it is definitely different for everyone.  I honestly thought that coming down a whole pill on my taper wouldn't effect me.  Boy was I wrong!  But I did notice when I slowed the taper, that I was much better off.  I had no idea what a small amount of Tramadol actually does until I tried to cut it out.  It may not work that way for you but it may work too.  I started cutting a qtr of a pill every 8 days or so and I I'm down to 3.3/4 a day after taking 15 a day.  And I've been very careful with my body and doing well.  I don't know if this would have the same effect on you and I know everyone is different.  I do know that it helped me a LOT.  Remember to ask yourself, "what's the hurry?"  You have time right?  

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 09, 2010
Icando...yes..thanks..after all..took me 4 years to get here...seems to be smart and make sense to taper in that manner.(at least to me...i know everyone is different) .It is.part of my compulsive nature to want to cut so dramatically and have it over with NOW.  i will try the small taper...
gratefully
pat.

Avatar universal
by JG525, Feb 09, 2010
Comingclean- I would not ask your doctor for more tramadol after 6 days.  You're almost there.  If you have to have something, then ask for an anti-depressant.  Eventually, you'll end up back in this same place trying to kick the trams and still depressed.  It's just masking the symptoms.

Emily- congrats on 600 days! That's awesome.  I've got 90+ and feel great as far as the trams.  Trying to get off my anti-depressant and then my klonopin too.  I've been on it for 7 or so years, so I don't expect it to be easy.  Getting off the Effexor has been the worst for me.  Fortunately, the prozac in place of it is helping, so hopefully, I can just come off that.  We'll see what my psych says.  I'm starting to think I should start the klonopin taper first.  I just want to have a baby!  I had no idea how hard this would be.

Susan- I do believe the ADD feeling is from the SNRI properties because after I got off trams I had that and then had it much worse when I got off effexor, which is an SNRI.  It's like a brain fog.  I don't think an opiate would act this way, although I haven't had a problem with opiates.  I believe the metabolites of anti-depressants and trams stick around longer than pain killers.

Everyone should be honest with their doctors, so that doctors can know for other patients that this is addictive.  But I don't recommend being honest to get more pills unless it's from the get go.
Jenny

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 09, 2010
Jen- Glad to hear your prozac is helping. Probably quite a relief for you to find some help with that awful SNRI w/d. Congrats on 90 days  very cool
Sandi and desperategran- - I believe the ADD component of w/d is an effect of the SNRI component of Tram and the w/d from that piece of the drug. It is a VERY complex drug. last thread, I think, both Chess and howcouldI wrote in depth about the 'chemical soup' that is Tramadol. It is a worthwhile piece to find and what I did was PRINT IT OUT so I could read it and re-read it....hmmm....starting to understand, here, why this is so difficult. Look at the Biochem of this thing...it is WICKED and will whipsaw a human body on many levels. an opiate is an opiate, period. Tram is a rather complex antidepressant molecule with a weak opiate (my *ss) component. Ahhh...says the pharmaceutical company....we can slip this one by the FDA and sell it like it is 'SAFE" to the prescribers....We'll make millions....and yes, they have played a large part in making many, many people a 'slave' to the drug....Hey, my co pay went into someones pocket, Guys....yep...we are paying for some high livin' when we were just starting it, feeling good, then- livin' high.....it gave me a false energy and confidence....then it took them BOTH away...but I was 'hooked" BIGTIME.....
oh my...a tangent   whew!
anger helps (cause it's just energy)....resentment doesn't (cause it is poison)
BTW Hi Em! thanks for the Post  congrats on your clean time!
this post has meant the world to me   THANKS ALL
Keep Going Warriors!!    

Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 09, 2010
Hey all,
I just wanted to say that I am reading your posts and have huge admiration for the strength and courage of everyone here. No matter what stage of recovery you are in, keep fighting. Win the war, like Emily said she did.

Emily, you are a joy and a love to all of us. Thank you.

Keep on fighting!

Bode

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by forget_me_not, Feb 09, 2010
Bode, hang in there.  It's hard.  It's worse than hard.  I just calculated my number of days clean, and I'm up to 157.  I simply cannot believe that.  Compared to the number of days I took the drug though, I'm still far from even.  I have a LONG way to go.

Like Emily, I have no cravings.  Strangely enough, after acute withdrawal was over for me (around day 9), the cravings were nonexistent.  The psychological/emotional aspects of withdrawal kicked in and really occupied me at that point.  And the ever-present question, "OK, I made it through that...Now what do I do with this mess that is my life?"  For me it was simple.  Pick a point and just start working.  Observe what is going on around me.  Notice things, people.  Important things.  Most of all, notice how I react inside to things.  Because that's the hard part post-acute.  It's dealing with the fact that the smallest minutiae will throw you into an emotional tailspin, and that's perfectly normal part of healing.  Why?  I don't know.  I like the coma analogy.  I think more than anything, it's that we have spent a LOT of time not reacting emotionally as we would without the drug.  Our own responses to life have atrophied beneath the fog, and when we have to face them again, it's like learning what they are all over again.  Our regulatory functions, coping skills, etc. are out of practice.  And we have to find them again and re-learn how and what they are.  It gets very stormy at times!

So much good wisdom and healing shared here today.  Once more, I am blessed to be in this healing place.  

love & peace to all,
~leeann

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by ComingClean, Feb 09, 2010
Well, made through another day pill free. I'm no so happy I couldn't speak to my docter today..(actually...mad!...) but I guess it's for the best anyway. I did actually play some tournament poker today to take my mind off it. Another small thing to get my mind off it. Worked out in the afternoon and about to soak and sleep. I'm going to stick to this for a little bit longer. You guys are great. I really appreciate all the support. Hope all is well with everyone. Later

Avatar universal
by hjayne, Feb 09, 2010
I was doing so good..but feel like I am having a transferance of addictions. I am day 25? cold turkey from 9 a day and am having a hard time. (I am fine and safe....just struggling and feeling down) Some days are really solid and some days are just too overwhelming. Ups and downs are tough!! :)

Avatar universal
by f1swede, Feb 09, 2010
To ComoingClean !                                                                                                                                                          I been reading mainly on here but saw your post on Tramadol. I was on it 3yrs ago and ran out one day. I was on Vicodin to start out with but told my Doc. when i ran out i was very scared how i reacted to it. So i asked him if there is anything else i can take so he gave me Tramadol. I was very ignorent to any of the pain meds. ever been close to it or knew what it was. Anyway i was on Trams. for about 6months and ranout of pills at work. I drove home around 2pm and had a drive that took 20min. but it felt like a few hours (very tired). Came home took a shower and went to bed figure i sleep this off. Woke up 15min later with incredible shakes and chills. I was like this for 3 days and could not stay warm,sweating like crazy my mind was racing like crazy but i was completely shot. Went to the Doc and he told me i might have the flu come back if it dont get better in a few days. Of course came back and was in really bad shape. He ran every lab test in the book and nothing showed up as being wrong. I was going cold turkey without knowing it. It took him sending me to a different Doc after 3weeks and she pegged it in 5min. You have W/D from the Ultram. I use to weigh about 170lbs but was down to 134lbs. Like you the crying was something else. It sounds like you are over the worst so that is great. So much for trusting the Doctors. Good luck to eerybody getting off this medication it's the worst medication i ever been on..  F1

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 10, 2010
Interesting story f1 swede. Sorry for your experience and especially your doctor's ignorance. Was curious about how much tram you were taking before withdrawal. I was taking much less when I experienced chills. I remember it was a cold winter day and I had to go to the dentist. Did not suspect it was the tramadol either.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 10, 2010
I think we have to forgive most doctors; unless they've taken a drug themselves or know/see the results firsthand, they only have 'data sheets' to go on. And Pharmaceutical companies have been known to hide negative side effects before. Also, under Bush, FDA budgets have been severely cut, and they are told with a wink and a nod to look the other way whenever possible. IMV, the Big Corps control things now. Probably would take something like a class action lawsuit to change things with tram. The irony is that if doctors were aware, they could inform the patient of possible withdrawal symptoms, and help wean them off when the time came, not just leave them out in the cold to suffer unnecessarily.

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 10, 2010
Chess- yes, out in the cold....exactly!...I find f1's story interesting, too. I realized I was in trouble with tram because of continual w/d symtoms (daily) that finally caught my attention. I never used Tram in the morning, I took my first dose in the afternoon....the symptoms would start....signaling me to reach in my purse for 4....count them....4 'white ones' .....anywhere from noon until about 2, 3 or 4pm.....maybe more later in the eve...toward the end, always one or two extra....4 a day was my prescribed dose...worked for a while....began finding myself 'needing' to go up.....then, a day would come when I would take 3......and be in a continual w/d....I thought I had the flu...like 3 days a week.....I got on this post...read for hours.....the truth dawned upon me....it was eerie and frightening......the pieces fit...the illusions dropped....and I 'knew' I had a week of heck in front of me...I did a 3 day rapid taper....then c/t from 100mg a day.....after 1 week of roiling misery (and a trip to urgent care, then, later the ER) and much clonidine for the anxiety I could not bear...I began to gaze gently back over the last 5 months and saw how much I had 'lost myself"--- my sense of humor?...dampened enormously...my sensitivity ? heightened enormously....my immature outlook was in full force...but it was all so gradual....I was aghast at these effects and could see they were related to this drug....tramagarbage .....oh shiess!!  a mess to clean up....what to do? get plenty of help and get to work
I have found that a gentle and benevolent outlook is essential for healing
I was sleeping......not bad nor an idiot
wake up, girl...just wake up!........it is all ok
and within this experience I have found that I have struggled through the last 10 years without stabilization of my bipolar
and, actually done quite well...but now I have more help and appropriate medication. I am learning a different approach to meditation and prayer...working daily to 'practice the presence' of God....so I can have the security and strength I look for in the world (and NEVER find) ....to dampen my cravings for....well...anything.....I can get addicted to almost ANYTHING
truth be told...even 'good' things.....exercise and salads for gods sake!.....but plenty of 'bad' things too...this vulnerability is a symptom of the belief I am operating in the world 'separate from God' ...l am now working on alignment with The Absolute
medication is helpful...but putting other skills in place daily are key for me.....for the true Peace that Passeth all Understanding
I will NEVER LEAVE YOU NOR FORSAKE YOU
well?...I want to FEEL that in each moment
a sure fire cure for what is my essential ailment

Stay Strong All
peace and blessings out there.....thanks for your love and support!


Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 10, 2010
The honesty and humilty of this place is....BEAUTIFUL. Where ever you are in your recovery, there is something so healing about writing and reading.

FMN-well said!  Our coping skills ARE out of practice and we have to slowly slowly fight our way back.  To a place where we don't have to notice anymore. Our minds will be healed and able to cope without thinking about it. One day. I am sure.
Jane-I hear you, sweetie. Its not always great even 25 days out. Sometimes, so good and normal, then a bad bunch of days. I know and am here with you.
F1-I agree, it's the worst medication I have ever been on too.  Little did I know that I had built such a tolorance to 10 pills a day that I was also in mild w/d almost, well, always!  Especially in the morning. Terrible, icky feeling every morning I woke on those little white pills. I so do not miss that!
Chessgames-In a wierd way I agree that unless the doctors have actually experienced T's, how would they know just how horrible they are? They just have data to go by. BUT, I still think they are given out way too quickly and not enough attention to the hundreds of thousands of complaints from addicts like us when we tell the truth about the drug.  
comingclean-great job. Working out is such a good thing now and always, but especially now. I can not say enough for it's value during early w/d. You're doing great. Hang on a bit longer...
4leef- So nice to read. I too look back now and can not believe how much of myself I had lost in the fog of Trams!  Four  years, oh gosh!  I think meditation and prayer sound like a wonderful thing to do, especially now. I wish I could do that. I just don't know how...

Getting some snow in the tri-state area today. Time to hunker down and get ready to build some snowmen and enjoy a fire with my family....(on t's, I never had fun being trapped in my house! Always felt like I wanted to run. away..., but today, I am okay to just be HERE)  

I have to say, again, how much I appreciate all the awesome people here.  Keep on posting and fighting.

xo
Bode

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by forget_me_not, Feb 10, 2010
Good Morning, Warriors!

ComingClean, You DID it!!  You didn't cave, you stayed strong and you made it through THAT!  Hats off to you, my dear.  You've just come over a major hurdle.  Now please focus your eyes squarely on that day, just around the bend, when things are going to get MUCH better.  Maybe not today, and then it could be.  But your faith in knowing it's coming is very inspiring to all of us.  

I am SO amazingly proud of you.  I'm smiling from ear to ear as I type.

Yo espero.  I hope, I wait.

Bode, I really need a buddy to work through this emotional retraining stuff with... what do you say?  :-)

Love and peace to all of you this day,
~leeann

1059641 tn?1277525976
by forget_me_not, Feb 10, 2010
Hjayne: can you tell me more about what kind of transference you think you're experiencing?  CT from 9/day is HARD, as I know you know.  Be gentle with yourself.  What you have been through is extreme.  

The transference is what I'd like to know about.  And overall, how is your mental/physical state?  25 days is amazing, and you've got the worst behind you.  From here it's just lots of hard work.  We will help any way we can.

healing,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by JG525, Feb 10, 2010
Thanks 4Leef...the prozac is really helping, although I'm frustrated I had to go on something else.  I'm grateful to be free of the Effexor though.  I'll see what my psych says this week.  I'm wondering if he'll start my klonopin taper now.  I really need to get off that to get pregnant.  The prozac could stay if needed.  Not keen on that though.  I only take the klonopin at night, not for anxiety, but I've been on it for years.  I'm glad you are getting your bipolar treated.  Otherwise, we tend to self-medicate and sometimes, like with tram, don't realize it right away.

Jayne- I was going to ask about the transference too...as FMN has already done.  I don't have tramadol cravings, but I noticed that I was eating more and that I was starting to experiment with drinking, which I haven't done in a few years.  I stopped that.  I just know I can't handle it in this state.  I rejoined Weight Watchers in order to take accountability for the food too.

Jenny

Avatar universal
by cocosmum, Feb 10, 2010
I just read on another site that I should take tramadol(ultram) to help get off nubain, but it sounds like that might be making things worse. how addictive is this drug?

Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 10, 2010
Good Morning!

I have mentioned on a few occasions how contemporary Christian music has helped me over these past 10 DAYS - Whoop!!!

I wanted to share just 4 songs with you that I have found speak directly to me and what I have been going through. Maybe they will speak to you the same way as you begin the recovery process.  The lack of sleep for eight days just about did me in and I would blast these songs in my iPod at night as I prayed for the chain of addiction to be removed from my very soul.

Born Again  by Third Day
Revelation by Third Day
Cry out to Jesus by Third Day
While I'm Waiting by John Waller

I discovered that Tramadol was like the Christmas gift that you received from your parents but didn't ask for.  You didn't want it but took it anyways because a trustworthy source was the gift bearer.

Stay strong today ( and warm - it's even cold here in this Southern city of Texas)



1059641 tn?1277525976
by forget_me_not, Feb 10, 2010
Sandia, very good analogy at how we trust the gift MUST be good since it came from The Doctor.  Isn't it true that we never stop growing up and learning to think for ourselves, to be our own advocate?  I, too, am very unlikely to ever trust any doctor with my health.  I just cannot imagine it after what I've experienced.

Coco, as you'll see reading here, tramadol can be disastrous.  It is NOT a "safe alternative to opiates".  It's very addictive and much harder for most to stop taking than other, "more potent" pain medications.  Be informed and make a good decision.  I am not familiar with the withdrawal syndrome with nubain, but I am familiar with tramadol's.  

I would never, ever take this drug for any reason.  Ever.

There are, however, other ways to ease the withdrawal from opiates.  Are you familiar with the Thomas Recipe?  Many have had good luck with it.  It's easy to find via a google search.

Warm healing to all this day,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 10, 2010
Thanks, 4-leaf, Bode and all. You guys made me realize that I definitely do not want to return to where I was before. And that trammies always have us more in their grip than we might want to admit or realize. Denial is all too easy, isn't it? So far I've been disinclined to up my dose--actually feel more crappy above 50 mg a day. It becomes more a crutch drug than anything else. An old Stones song says it well:  

"Kids are different today,"
I hear ev'ry mother say
Mother needs something today to calm her down
And though she's not really ill
There's a little [Ultram] pill
She goes running for the shelter of a mother's little helper
And it helps her on her way, gets her through her busy day


"Things are different today,"
I hear ev'ry mother say
Cooking fresh food for a husband's just a drag
So she buys an instant cake and she burns her frozen steak
And goes running for the shelter of a mother's little helper
And two help her on her way, get her through her busy day


Doctor please, some more of these
Outside the door, she took four more
What a drag it is getting old


"Men just aren't the same today"
I hear ev'ry mother say
They just don't appreciate that you get tired
They're so hard to satisfy, You can tranquilize your mind
So go running for the shelter of a mother's little helper
And four help you through the night, help to minimize your plight


Doctor please, some more of these
Outside the door, she took four more
What a drag it is getting old...




Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 10, 2010
Leeann(fmn)-I will definately be your emotional retraining buddy! Great idea.

Chess-great tune! Perfect song to post-we can probablly all relate to it and it does say it well.

Cocosmum-Tramadol(Ultram) is highly addictive and can have devastating affects on your life.  It is horrific to get off of. Please beware!!

Bode



Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 10, 2010
Hey Everyone..since i logged off yesterday..i come back to read the most amaziing inspiring posts..Coming Clean..God bless you and congratulations...how awesome that you made it thru the day...

4 leef a quote from you "I believe the ADD component of w/d is an effect of the SNRI component of Tram and the w/d from that piece of the drug. It is a VERY complex drug. last thread, I think, both Chess and howcouldI wrote in depth about the 'chemical soup' that is Tramadol. It is a worthwhile piece to find and what I did was PRINT IT OUT so I could read it"
Can you direct me to this so that I too can print out?  i want to go over this before i see my doc on friday...

also loved the following..your quote:  "began to gaze gently back over the last 5 months and saw how much I had 'lost myself"--- my sense of humor?...dampened enormously...my sensitivity ? heightened enormously....my immature outlook was in full force...but it was all so gradual....I was aghast at these effects and could see they were related to this drug....tramagarbage .....oh shiess!!  a mess to clean up....what to do? get plenty of help and get to work
I have found that a gentle and benevolent outlook is essential for healing
I was sleeping......not bad nor an idiot
wake up, girl...just wake up!........it is all ok"     I too am MIA...wierdly..i dont know what that person will look like when i find her again...just know that she will be grateful for the chance at life without the crippling effects of the Tram.

lee ann...quote: "  I like the coma analogy.  I think more than anything, it's that we have spent a LOT of time not reacting emotionally as we would without the drug.  Our own responses to life have atrophied beneath the fog, and when we have to face them again, it's like learning what they are all over again.  Our regulatory functions, coping skills, etc. are out of practice.  And we have to find them again and re-learn how and what they are.  It gets very stormy at times! "
WOW - blown away at how you articulated this..yes i see this..my response to life has been on autpilot...kind of line a drone. and isnt is curious that we think we are the only ones who know..? (well for me anyways)   but i see or have seen others look at me like they are waiting for me...to deliver a "real" response..and it's just not there...
thank you all again so much for validating my experience..to know we are not alone is such a critical piece of recovery. ..this is probably for me about the 8th or 9th day of taper...the first day of a more gradual taper ..(kindler, gentler)..im in bed with the real flu i think...but then it could  be tram withdrawal induced.  
peace & blessings,
desp gran pat





Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 10, 2010
I would like to add that even though i do feel i've been asleep..in a fog, coma, etc.  my sentivity level has been off the charts..i take EVERYTHING and i mean EVERYTHING personally...if you look at me funny...if a customer rushes me off the phone, if my daughters go to dinner and dont invite me...i feel like i am such a piece of crap...if i had $5.00 for every time i said "im sorry" in past 4 years..i would be a very rich woman!   the self loathing...comes ..i am sure..from what i am doing to myself..while i may have been in denial on the trams there's that part deep down inside of me that  knows i've been injuring my body and psyche ..and if i've continued to do this..i must really hate myself.

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by forget_me_not, Feb 10, 2010
Pat, you're not the only one among us who ::might:: have just a slight tendency toward excessive self-reproach and punishment.  Part of my emotional recovery from all of this madness is learning to be honest about that -- about my self-esteem, self-worth (or lack of it), abandonment fears, self-destructive behavior, on and on.  It goes so far back that trying to figure out where it originated would be impossible and a waste of time.  It is what it is.  And I know that only I can change the self-destructive behavior by understanding why I am doing it, and making a conscious effort every day to change my reactions and learn different ways of responding to things that challenge me emotionally.

I don't even know if any of that made sense to anyone but me.  The bottom line is, for me, yes tramadol was yet another way in which I consciously participated in an activity that was damaging to my quality of life, physically, emotionally, spiritually.  It wasn't the first and may not be the last, but I am trying to understand and change so the cycle ends.

I'm thankful for everyone here.  There is strength in numbers.

love,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 10, 2010
fmn-you are amazingly well spoken as are many others on here! You say what I am thinking but cant seem to write. Thank you for expressing so much that I can relate to. And, it makes perfect sense.
xo
Bode

Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 10, 2010
Pat-I can relate to you too. The sensitivity is brutal. A look, a joke, anything seems to hurt me. Sensitivity! Its so hard. Painful!
Keep sharing and we will work through this together.
xo Bode

Avatar universal
by OtisDaMan, Feb 10, 2010
My tramadol story ended several years ago now, and started with a visit to my normal health clinic.
My usual doctor was on holidays so I thought no problem, I'll just see another doctor at the same clinic. I was using doloxene (2 to 4 100mg daily) and had been for several years without problem. Anyway, the doctor I saw went scary angry that I was on "an addictive drug" like doloxene and she prescribed me tramadol which in her words was a safe narcotic.

My first withdrawal was cold-turkey. I simply got sick and tired of the yuk feeling when on tramadol and it was clearly a drug I was having trouble with; miss a dose in the morning and the mental fog would start up. I needed it just to feel normal enough to be mentally sharp. Anyway, I thought I had a dose of the flu during the course of the next few days, LOL, aches and pains all over, the cold sweats at night, and generally feeling lousy. Once that passed I went back onto doloxene and the roller coaster settled down to plain sailing.

Conclusion: doctors fall foul of anecdotal tales and pharmaceutical sales rep propaganda, just as readily as anyone else. And they don't keep up with the medical literature.

From the number of people reporting their experiences here, it should be obvious that:
a) tramadol can be a problem child for a significant number of users;
b) getting addicted, or at least losing some control over behaviour concerning dose discipline, does not mean you are a "bad" person - it is a pernicious and little talked about side effect of the drug;
c) doctors aren't always the authority we think they are.

Regards all, and fight the good fight!

OtisDaMan

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 10, 2010
Thankk you Bode & Fmn...i sure did not mean to imply that i was unique in some way on this self-loathing business...and i also want to apologize if my posts start to sound overly dramatic..sometimes i get caught up when i start writing..i can't seem to stop...
but your responses make me realize that it's ok.
gratefully
pat

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by forget_me_not, Feb 10, 2010
Pat, I adore your honesty, and to be truthful, if there are words in the English language that are too dramatic for this experience, I don't know them.  I've often felt my comments on here were a little over the top, but even those really didn't capture the depth (either good or bad) of the experience.  It's just beyond words.  But words are all we have, and I treasure yours.

I think that writing is a Very Important Part of the healing process for a lot of us.  As our inside begins to wake up, it can get pretty overwhelming, even perhaps dramatic.  Writing, sharing, healing...

peace, Warriors.

~fmn

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by ComingClean, Feb 10, 2010
Well guys, I'm at the lowest of lows. My wife and kids just left me. I guess with me coming down and the severe depression I'm going through, it was too much for them. They were all I had to keep going. I'm so scared now. I have to be out by tomorrow. I want to use so bad right now. God, I am so scared and lonely.

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 10, 2010
Coming Clean...im here...i hear you...please know...you're NOT ALONE... we are out here and we are with you...and many who have posted out here  have moved thru similar  (not to diminish what you are going thru)..and got to the other side...please please..dont give up...stay with us!
lots of light, blessings & prayers

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 10, 2010
Coming....reaching out a virtual hand to hold...hold on!!!  

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by ComingClean, Feb 10, 2010
I just dont know what do do..They were all I had..my little girls wont understand. oh man im in bad shape..Lord give me the strength to get through this.

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 10, 2010
One minute at a time...one hour at a time..hold on to yourself...you will get through this..fight for yourself..fight for your girls .and bring yourself thru this...we are here to help you...to listen ..keep talking...

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by forget_me_not, Feb 10, 2010
ComingClean, you are really being wrung out.  I am so sorry to hear that your family is reacting this way.  Do you know for sure why she's decided to leave?  Have you considered talking openly and honestly with her about what is happening to you?  If you go back to the previous journals, you'll see another of our success stories, Wantmylifeback, who came clean with his wife and things improved drastically.  Of course I don't know your situation, but is it a possibility for you?  You could talk to her honestly about what this drug does to us, even bring her to this journal and let her read.  

You're going through it right now, but hang on.  Tramadol will NOT make anything better.  It will just prolong it.

Stay with us.
~fmn

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by forget_me_not, Feb 10, 2010
Wantmyselfback... Sorry for the typo!  Proofreading is a good idea.  I should try it.

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by ComingClean, Feb 10, 2010
Forget me not..Yes she does know that I'm going through this, for she did a couple weeks ago. She is on suboxene right now so, yes she does understand. I guess my mood swings and irratability just was too much for her. We got in a huge argument this morning and she wants me to be gone by tomorrow. She is at her parents right now. Out of all the days I really need her she is gone. Im so miserable.

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by forget_me_not, Feb 10, 2010
ComingClean...your screen name says it all.  You are having the layers of yourself stripped away right down to your bare soul.  And that hurts in ways that are beyond imagination.  It makes us hunker down and wait to die.  Ultimately, one lesson I learned (and there were quite a few things I learned on this train ride) was/is that *it all comes down to ME*.  To what I can endure.  And I didn't know, when I was where you are, how much I could endure.  It tested my limits and boundaries in EVERY way imaginable, and in doing so, I can look back and see that I grew.  As a human being.  I grew more humble, smaller.  This experience of withdrawal pushes us into the core of ourselves and makes us face what is there, what we've been avoiding, perhaps.  That was the case for me, anyway.

I can feel your misery. I can.

Consider this...she understands, so you already have covered the Biggest Obstacle many couples face.  The truth is out there.  Thank God.  Now, what YOU are going through is terrible, nasty, awful.  And maybe you've grown moody and edgy and just awful to be around (I'm exaggerating here, but EVEN IF).  The You that is going to emerge moments from now from the wreckage is The Real You.  And there will be challenges, yes.  Will she change her mind?  Will you be able to make it if she doesn't?  It's hard enough to deal with our own "free will" at this particular moment, much less worry about another's.  Give your true self a chance.  You will feel much stronger once this horrible acute WD is over, and you are so close.

Arguments can be good.  They can blow the cobwebs out of the dark corners of our hearts, our relationships.  Let the dust settle and see what remains.

Just stay with us, please.

love,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 10, 2010
comingclean--  do you have someone to be with now? a friend and confidant? I hope you are seeking out support.
This is ONE BIG DEAL. We care about you...oh how your heart must ache tonight....hope you keep going with your withdrawal. It takes awhile to get off this stuff and now this....ohhh...I feel for you. Get with your family and friends . Know that we are here for you, too.
FMN- wonderful words, thanks.....

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by ComingClean, Feb 10, 2010
Thank you all so very much for your support. No 4leef I don't have anyone right now. My phone was turned off today and I'm alone here. Im trying to get in touch with my mom,,,brother someone, via facebook with no avail. Its very quiet here now and I'm very depressed. Your kind words are helping me as we speak. Thank you all.

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 11, 2010
Coming Clean..just want u to know thinking about you..hoping that you got thru the night ok...  i am not necessarily promoting nor do i presently attend 12 step(works great for many) ..but have u tried a meeting...i have in the past and found there was some really good folks there who could offer in person support...if you feel you need to make "in person"  - contact and cannot find anyone .. you may want to consider this option. .just a thought.  
in my thoughts and prayers..keep talking.

fmn & 4 leef..hugs to you...
dg


Avatar universal
by JG525, Feb 11, 2010
Pat- I have always been overly sensitive.  I think it’s a self-esteem thing.  It’s something I have to work on.  I’ve found that tramadol and anti-depressants both have blunted this over-emotionality I have, but they have also prevented me from doing work on it.  They have made me flat when I’m on them.  No strong emotions.  I’m hoping now I can work on this in therapy.  I didn’t think your post was dramatic at all btw.

Comingclean- It sounds like you and your wife have a long history together of drug abuse.  Her too.  I would imagine that she didn’t permanently leave you over tram withdrawal.  Maybe there is more to it?  Do you see a therapist?  It sounds like you guys would benefit from couples counseling at some point.  Just remember that using won’t bring your wife or child back.  I think a meeting sounds like a good idea if you can.

J


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by forget_me_not, Feb 11, 2010
Good Morning, Warriors.

I sincerely hope all of you are well and strong this day.  It is a bit of a struggle for me.  

I'm not fond of platitudes, but this struck me as especially applicable in my own experience right now.  I am posting it, knowing you've all read it a zillion times already, in the hope that you'll find some small grain of hopeful light in it.

blessings and peace,
~fmn
-------------------------------------------------------
Desiderata

    * Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    * As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons.
    * Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
    * Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
    * Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
    * Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
    * Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery.
    * But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals,and everywhere life is full of heroism.
    * Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.
    * Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
    * Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
    * Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you,no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
    * Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace with your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.


Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 11, 2010
J - yes..flat..for me also....i hate it when im in a situation that is obviously funny to others and i try to force a laugh..really takes a lot of energy to try and be authentic when operating in the tram fog...so sad..that my 2 adult daughters with small children (we've always been very close)...used to come to me for advice, wisdom, confiding, etc..they know im "mia"...and they dont  exactly know why. ..i've not come clean with them..and im not ready to just yet. they deserve more...so do I.  i know in past i felt similar when i was on the AD's..but im wondering if i need to go on one to help with the depression while tapering off the tram. thanks for your words..again..makes me feel like im not totally losing my mind..

Bode - a quote from you week or so ago:
"Chessgames-Yes and no. Tramadol DID give me energy.  A weird energy, but yes an energy. Like you, I felt I could do anything!  However, eventually I lost interest in the things that I normally loved.  And I felt I was veiled by this synthetic drug and not so "energetic" as I was when I started taking it.
Not sure if that makes sense?  I guess what I mean is, my senses seem to be coming back, in a way, since stopping trams.  The "Tramfog" is lifting.  And tennis, running, hiking, music and all the things I love are becoming fun again.   It's not all perfect, I struggle with LOTS of things, but things are starting to get better at least!

Maybe Tramadol has that strange, eery quality of giving energy, but also taking it away.."

Wow...just stuns me when i read something like this that completely mirrors my experience.  I actually did 2 races in 08..10K road race..where i ran part of the way......another race few months later where i also ran part of the way..was exercising everyday...running all over place taking care of everyone. ..yardwork til dark...not to mention  6 or 7 trips a year travel (some overseas) for my job.supported my family thru the loss of my only siblings within 6 weeks of each other ...and people would say..where do you get all your energy?  if they only knew..but now..in the past year...i have slowed down..the energy is not near what it was..so, yes, i see that the tram has turned on me ..my question is..though..will my energy truly come back..or did the tram induce  an unnatural energy high that i should not expect to see again?
Des Gran Pat


Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 11, 2010
Hello Warriors!
8 days clean since my 5 day relapse and things are going well. I had 72 hours of jitteryness and severe RLS at night.(can you believe that? 5 days at 100 or 150....
Insomnia never really got better,  during relapse....it did improve a bit. I return to the psychiatrist today. I first saw him friday, last. He started me on some medication that seems to be helping. I plan on discussing my insomnia with him today.
  I am able to get to work and my energy is improving. I had 34 days before my relapse so I think I am enjoying, now, some better time for that reason. The sun is out, I can breathe easily with carrying a tank of oxygen around. I don't have to load a wheelchair into my car so I can get to my MD appointment (and hoping the building is accessible) I have ten fingers and ten toes, I can type (sort of) and read (thank God in heaven), I brushed my teeth this morning and they were all present, I have clothes to wear and clothes to spare, I have a furnace ( it's working hard) and can load laundry in a machine (instead of schlepping it to the river and slapping it against the rocks ) I can see, hear, smell and taste, I can hug my family and friends, and last but not least I can look in the mirror into unveiled eyes this morning
wishing you all happiness and freedom
Stay Strong!  

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 11, 2010
I meant WITHOUT carrying an oxygen tank around........I am sure you get my drift
thanks for being here, everyone...I don't think I could do this without you

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 11, 2010
You are awesome 4 leef - CONGRATULATIONS!!!!  i loved your post. especially the last part "look in the mirror into unveiled eyes"...beautiful...truly inspiring...
hugs

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by forget_me_not, Feb 11, 2010
4leef, I'm looking forward to hearing your success with the insomnia!  It's so awful.  I am struggling with it right now, and could really use some tips.  I've done everything except take prescription sleep medicines.

In the last four days, I have slept 2 hours, 6 hours, no hours, and 2 hours.  It's catching up to me in all ways.  Yuck.

Thank you for the wonderful inspiration this morning, and always!

~fmn

Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 11, 2010
4leef - seriously, if you can find a way to obtain a reprieve from insomnia and report back to the troops with this info- we will all hunt you down and smother you with hugs.  This is debilitating to say the very least.  I am 11 days T free and I have slept about as well as FMN.  Im going nutso right about now.

I tried Ambien a little over a year ago and talk about girls gone wild :) - that drug makes you fly a freak flag you didn't even know you owned!!!

Take care, stay warm and dry everyone.

Prayers of strength and resolve to all.

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by forget_me_not, Feb 11, 2010
Sandia!  I also took Ambien during acute WD - once - and flew the Freak Flag high!  It was straaaaange to sleep and know the sleep was not mine.  I could feel it, sort of semi-conscious during the "sleep", that it was a weird kind of paralysis.  I decided I'd much rather stay awake, even if it was for days at a time.  And the dreams were psycho-scary-no-way-my-mind-came-up-with-this.  Horrifying.  It works for some people, and they are fortunate to get the reprieve from the insomnia.  Just didn't work for me.  Bad reaction I suppose.

It gets better really soon after the first ten days, but not consistently better.  I slept really well most nights, but there are occasional Insomnia Marathons interspersed.  I'm hopefully nearing the end of one.

love,
~fmn



Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 11, 2010
HaHa!!  LOL.......

That drug is definitely not for me.  I can sooooo relate to your experience.

At least me and my husband had a couple of good laughs while I tried it out.

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by forget_me_not, Feb 11, 2010
This whole crazy experience has caused me to do a lot of looking around and looking in.  I love the unveiled eyes that 4leef described.  It is such truth that, one day, you look at your reflection and it really looks different.  for me, it was a combination of seeing my own eyes brighter and more alert than they had been in years.  It was also noticing that I now have a few wrinkles.  When did that happen?  During the Tramadol Years.  K was just born the other day.  I remember that day just as if it were yesterday.  But it wasn't.  It was four years ago. The Lost Years.

Thankfully for me and my loved ones, I was apparently a pretty high-functioning addict during most of that time.  That's what the souvenirs suggest, anyway.  Completed almost all the requirements for a doctorate, straight As, of course.  Got the highest performance reviews at work.  Work.  I was a rock star at work.  The next dean, without a doubt.  I was superwoman on steroids.  There was nothing I couldn't do, and with a smile, at work and home and wherever else I might be.  Until the day I couldn't anymore.  Until it all came crashing down.

I think about a structure of any kind, like a house, and how building it takes TIME.  It has to be done gradually and each task has to be given its due (the cement has to harden, the mortar has to set or the bricks will fall down.).  There are homes that take years to build, but will stand the test of time, the scorching heat and pelting rain, the alternating freezes and thaws of many seasons, still strong.  With a little maintenance, of course.  Structures that are built too hurriedly, too haphazardly cannot be strong.  No matter how many shingles you put on the roof, if the foundation is not solid, it's going to come down.  Crashing down.

We humans sometimes build structures - lives for ourselves - that are uninhabitable.  And there is only one way to fix it: the old has to be brought down before the new can replace it.  I feel it happening still today.  The parts of my Self that were wrongly built - built on such quicksand as low self-esteem, emptiness, fear, anger, fear, fear - had to be exposed.  And as layer after layer was peeled back, those parts of me were glaring.  No amount of success (by worldly standards), no work advancements, no degree - NOTHING was going to hide it.  And try as I did to keep putting patches over any and every spot where such unpleasant risked being seen, that was a task not even superwoman on steroids could do.

There is an aspect of this awakening that makes me understand how and why, even though I spent the Lost Years doing everything for everyone, I was using them.  I was using other people to avoid having to look at myself.  So, in constantly striving to be the perfect daughter, the perfect friend, the perfect employee, on and on - I was just perpetuating the insidiously self-centered avoidance I've been practicing my whole adult life.

We are reduced to only what is true, real.  It feels scary and painful.  It feels like being skinned.  And it feels like a total loss, utter devastation.

Willa Cather writes of a character named Caroline in one of her short stories, "There were two things she feared more than poverty; the part of one that sets up an idol and the part of one that bows down and worships it."  I was Caroline, and the fear became self-fulfilling.  

Tramadol didn't make me a better "me".  It was just another layer of shingles over a mud foundation.  An idol to which I bowed for many, many days and nights.

Sometimes we humans build structures for ourselves that are uninhabitable, and God, in order to rescue us from our own certain death, has to tear it down for us.  It's painful, but necessary.

Sitting in the rubble and looking at the quicksand, wow...Sometimes I just don't know what to do.

So for now, I will just be.

Avatar universal
by Roo82, Feb 11, 2010
OK Slightly paralized with fear, here.

I’ve been in a 12 step program for almost 3 years from meth & alcohol. I work a good program and am active in the fellowship. I started taking tram about 10 months ago (4/09) for UTIs. I was taking them only when I had an infection for a while, but I was prescribed 40 with 2 refills. It seems like I was refilling them every 2 months as they were written “take 1 every 8 hours”. Then, in August, I sprained my ankle pretty bad and was prescribed them again. This time 120 pills with 3 refills! The doc said they were AA approved.

I’ve been taking 1-2 pills everyday since August. Sometimes more with bad pain. It seems like there’s always a random pain I can identify to take one or two everyday. I know that it’s just my disease justifying my taking them, and that they’re not really “needed.” I don’t feel “high” necessarily – I just feel “better.” As everyone has stated, it’s the energy, the ability to be productive and social, the confidence… I know I need to stop, the guilt is starting to overwhelm me. I’ve come a long way in sobriety and I’m not willing to lose everything I’ve gained!!

I’ve been reading all of your posts and find some comfort in knowing that I’m not alone… that there are people who have walked the path that’s laid out before me. I’m posting because I want you all to know that I’m here, I’m scared and I’m going to need a lot of support. I don’t know if I should try to taper, considering I’m only at about 50-100mg/day anyway. I was wondering if anyone’s taken 100mg one day, then the next day taken none, then 50mg the next, so on and so forth? It seems like I can go 1 day without taking any (if I have a lot of resolve to do so) without any issues, but I find that day 2 is when I really start to feel kind of crappy. Do you think that there’s a chance my w/d won’t be as bad, considering it’s been under a year since I’ve started and I only take 50-100mg per day?

I’m overwhelmed and scared to death. I can’t tell those people in my support system, mostly due to shame. I can’t help but feel like resetting my sobriety date negates the 3 years I’ve been sober from everything else. I know that may not be true, but that’s what I’m scared of… Disappointing my friends and my family, all of whom have supported me SO much throughout my sobriety. I can’t tell my parents that I’m not “sober” – it would break their hearts… that’s why I just want to get this over with, before the sh*t hits the fan.

Support please!!


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by forget_me_not, Feb 11, 2010
Roo, Welcome!  You're in a very good place.

First, no shame is allowed here. :-)  Where you are is where you are, and your courage in facing it and dealing with it is to be admired.

50-100mg is a pretty low dose of tramadol, but as you know, it's enough.  You can get through a day without much trouble due to the long half-life of tramadol.  The symptoms usually do hit hard the second day and last until they are over.  For many of us that's about a week, give or take.

The withdrawal from that dose might seem like a case of the flu, but it's nothing you can't handle.  We've all been there, most of us from way greater doses, so take heart.  It's not easy, but you CAN do it.  We will help you in any way we can.

It sounds like you're ready. Get off the train now before the wreck.

Again, welcome to this wonderful place of healing.

peace,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 11, 2010
FMN-You are a beautiful writer. What an amazing analogy. I love that. It makes sense.

4leef-you too. I love your writing. It is so amazing to read. Thank you both.

Roo-we are here for you. And you are definately not alone. Taper every few days. Break the 50mg pill in half and go down a half a pill for 3-4 days. Or a quarter if you can get it that small. You will get a lot of support here.  hang in there.

Pat-hang in. The energy will return. You'll see. I promise.

Bode

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 11, 2010
Good points and the question about tram energy being being natural or unnatural,  desperategrndma. My guess is that tram reduces some points of energy wastage, at least initially. Negative feelings like, anger, fear, and depression are enormously draining, no? Perhaps at higher doses for long periods certain groups of cells, glands become depleted or adapt by becoming less responsive, and the energy 'benefit' wanes.

Since I'm down to 25 mg a day, I'd like to experiment with a different method of withdrawal (see below). Another thing about Tramadol is that there seems to be a huge difference in how it's metabolized among individuals. For example, I seem to be much more sensitive to small doses than many of you. This is not surprising since Tramadol has so many modes of action.

Roo82 may be on to something as well, suggesting a possible better way to quit than sudden cold turkey. If you can taper to, say, a half  tab and take a day off, then on the second day, when the symptoms get worse, a quarter tab--or just enough to keep the WD symptoms at bay, then a day off again, and an even smaller dose on the day after (i.e, grind a quarter tab into power [I know Tramadol tastes awful] and take half of that), you may be home free.

Has anyone tried that yet?

Avatar universal
by Roo82, Feb 11, 2010
FMN -  Your post made me cry. And I'm at work, so I was forced to weep quiety at my desk. ;-) Thank you so much for your words. It's strange how emtional I am about this. I didn't cry when I gave up heroin nearly 6 years ago, nor for meth or alcohol 3 years ago. I guess it's the nature of the drug and what it does to the mind. Maybe it's trying to go through this without the help of any of my sober friends. You guys are my sober friends for this issue!! I can't thank you enough in advance.

Bode - I took 3 yesterday. I hadn't taken anything before my first post. Just now I took 1.5. Part of me said, "don't do it!" but I think I'd rather try tapering all the way down to .25/day. If I can minimize the w/d with the supplements listed somewhere on this journal, I might be able to get away without too much discomfort. Otherwise, I'm prepared to take on "the flu" as far as those around me are concerned.

I appreciate each and every one of you,
Roo



Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 11, 2010
A word on guilt: it's always counterproductive and creates a vicious circle where relapse is almost guaranteed. Think of it this way. A lot of us are addicted to caffeine--we dare not go without our cup of Joe in the morning. Caffeine is a potent DRUG, a CNS stimulant, yet does anyone feel guilty about being addicted to it? Probably very few. I suppose my point is that than rather feeling guilty about something being inherently immoral, we are really afraid of what other people think. Thus, if everyone thinks Caffeine okay, we feel just fine and dandy about using it, even if we're addicted to it.

Tramadol may be more harmful, physically and psychologically, granted, but feeling GUILTY about using it makes no more sense than feeling guilty about drinking coffee.

Worst of all, though, it is counterproductive to breaking the habit.

Avatar universal
by Roo82, Feb 11, 2010
Chess - Yes, the guilt is counterproductive...

I guess it's more guilt for not coming clean with the people around me. Honesty is a big deal to me, and it seems like I'm able to be honest about everything EXCEPT Tramadol. I'm grateful that I've found this journal and the people on it. It's important to share with other people where I'm at, and it's been a long time since I've been able to do that. It's a huge weight lifted -- even if I'm still withholding information from those I love, at least I'm not trying to do this without any support.

I know from experience that trying to quit by myself is only a setup for failure.


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by forget_me_not, Feb 11, 2010
Roo, I am so sorry the post made you cry at work!  :-)  I understand, though.  I remember it well.  I still have days when I cry at any and every little thing.  All those months of blunted emotions have to be reconciled at some point.  That's part of what the antidepressant part of tramadol does.  It gives us the illusion that we are our best, most awesomely level-headed Self, but it's all a lie.

So you are still at a relatively low dose: translation, DO IT NOW before the tolerance increases exponentially and you have to triple your dose in order to not be ill.  Tapering is wonderful if you are of strong will.  I jumped cold turkey from 600-700mg nearly 23 weeks ago.  Tapering wasn't an option for me.  I was done, done, done.  It was also terrible, but I made it.  And so will you, regardless which route you choose.  

Just Do It.

Life gets much, much better.  No guilt, no shame.  You hit a rock on your Recovery Road.  You are still on the Road.  Keep going.

~fmn

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 11, 2010
Forget_me_not, it's true that tapering takes some planning and will. Many will 'party' until they run out and are forced to go cold turkey, or go see a doctor for other options.

Avatar universal
by Roo82, Feb 11, 2010
FMN - No worries about the crying, LOL -- they were tears of relief. You reached out and touched my heart right through my monitor.

I remember that I got off of Tram back in June, after I ran out of the first script and it was too soon to refill. I had been taking 1 pill daily for about a month (hence running out early). I ended up going on a vacation to the beach with my family, tramadol-less. I didn't even notice any withdrawal - that was either because it was still so new to my body, or because I was at a sunny, warm beach, with no responsibilities and was sufficiently distracted. My environment was different, so I didn't notice any changes specific to w/d. All the Vitamin D from the sun may have given me a boost too. Maybe when my taper is over, I'll pick up tanning once a day as an additional source of Vit.D. It's a thought anyway!

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by forget_me_not, Feb 11, 2010
Roo, So glad to hear that you had a pretty uneventful "pause" from tramadol back in the summer.  That could definitely be a good sign for you.  I am praying that you can go off and experience NONE of what you have read about here.  Really, each person's experience is so unique, few things about WD can even be generalized.  If I were you, heading into a taper or cold turkey from 100mg, I would look for flu-like symptoms, general malaise, and some RLS.  Perhaps insomnia, too.  But once again, it's impossible to predict.  I'm hoping none of the above.

Chess, it's interesting that, for some of us, there never was a "party" with tramadol.  Never, ever, ever.  I never got high, not even once from this drug.  I just felt better.  Just normal, as much as I knew about normal, having lived with depression for quite a long time.  

Ten years ago I was in my mid-20's and had never ingested any kind of narcotic substance.  I hated even the buzz of alcohol because it felt out of my control, and it scared me.  Kind of a control freak, yes, in that sense.  But back to the story.  Ten years ago, my 4-year old nephew was crossing the road in front of his house when he was hit by a vehicle driven by an intoxicated driver.  Intoxicated on prescription opiates.  Very slow judgment, reaction time impossible to measure because he was essentially driving while comatose.  My nephew was dragged 150 feet under wheels of a car because the driver couldn't hit the brake.  His head was just about as tall as the bumper of a typical sedan.  He was an amazing, beautiful, precious child.  He is dead.

High terrifies me.  Which is what made me vulnerable to this poison.

The collateral damage done by opiates, opioids, narcotics, whatever you call them...can't be measured.  I am very thankful to be one of the ones who has been delivered to this place of clarity.  I know what the stakes are.  

peace, warriors.  
~fmn



Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 11, 2010
FMN- High Stakes---yes....so sorry about the loss of that beautiful boy.
Your posts are so eloquent and evocative FMN, thank you!
Roo- I told my sponsor and she said, 'big deal, it was prescribed and you are getting off it now, yer still sober"
I can't tell you how much courage it took for me to tell her about the Tramadol. I am glad you are here and getting clean
from this VERY toxic drug. keep posting! and congrats on your sobriety from heroin, meth and alcohol. Everything you have gained from recovery is yours. Nothing can take those principles from your heart and soul.
What is time, anyway?
Probably let an OCDer into the think tank when the universe was created and 'time' was the result.....
all we have is this moment before us now....where is the past? (only alive in my sometimes very sick mind)
where is the future? (same place) meanwhile while I am off on my past/future fear tangents (in my mind)
the present unfolds itself effortlessly in front of me....course I am not around to enjoy it....busy flitting around places that DON'T EXIST......I must have missed that day in school...you know...the day they handed out the manual about "how to do life" dang.....looks like everyone ELSE has one....I must be a real loser...Hey, I know what I'll do with all this insecurity, fear, jealousy, anger, self pity and biggest of all (drum roll) SELFISHNESS.....uh oh.....hey, I know what I'll do I'll HIDE IT....yeah, I think I can really DO THAT.....while the little monkey with the cymbals is clanging in my head I develope these character problems, .....like dishonesty, collusion, gossiping (hey, why not try to put someone ELSE down....then may no one will notice how God awful  badly I feel about myself)...in plain english that is using people.....this list of defenses and defects in my character goes on a while....so we will spare any further discussion and get to the part where we see just how well this masterminded plot turns out.....................................

not very well....turns out not well at all...I am lonely because no one knows me...why? because I am always pretending and hiding and diverting others cause I feel so badly about myself.....now on the outside I had a 'game' goin'
but it was like keeping 3 plates spinning, 4 balls in the air while riding a unicycle downhill---no brakes
I think you can guess what happens next

I did not get any magic about the insomnia at the Doc, today.....are you all tired during the day?
I am not.....but the lack of sleep really gnaws at me...
you are all SO WONDERFUL
Stay Strong!!

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by forget_me_not, Feb 11, 2010
4leef, I love your take on "time".  In early WD especially, it's easy to become time-bound, even more than we already are.  It was for me.  (When will this be over?  How long until I will sleep?  Etc.) It took a lot of conscious effort to limit my concern to only The Moment, nothing beyond.  Moment to moment.  Long nights, long days, simply a long series of moments bringing me to the calm. That is the way through.  Another life lesson, taken with gratitude and humility.

One of the most wonderful things about this very special spot in the universe is that there is No Judgment.  I am so thankful for that, because if there were, I couldn't be here.  None of us could.  Have we all done things we wish we didn't do while in the fog?  I bet we have.  The guilt can be consuming, but it's wasteful to dwell too long there.  I spent a lot of moments angry at the driver of that car.  I was angry because he drove under the influence, angry because he wasn't sorry enough, angry because God didn't intervene, angry that I had to tell his older brother, the day before his 7th birthday, that his baby brother wasn't coming home. Angry at the world for being broken.  I wanted no part of such a world.  Did I mention I was angry?  I was seething with anger and grief.  And it nearly killed me.

The thing is...It could have just as easily been me driving the car.  It could have been any of us.  I didn't ever feel altered while driving, but of course, I was.  And may I never, ever cast a stone.

We all have our stories, and we all need to be heard, no matter how we hate coming clean.  The driver of that car had a story, and I bet it was similar to a lot of those we have seen here.

Wherever you are and whatever you are going through tonight, it's OK.  Take encouragement and know that you are going to be OK.

lots of love and healing to all this night,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 11, 2010
FMN that was a powerful post.You are so right that it could have been any of us driving a car with dulled senses.We did not equate drugs with alcohol.They are pain pills after all and prescribed.I do not drive under any influence any more except maybe tylenol extra strength,but it does not dull my senses.
Just keeping that horrifying vision in our minds should keep us clean and sober so we will never drive a car under any influence.
So good to have you back and I love to read every post and watch their progress.

Avatar universal
by f1swede, Feb 11, 2010
To Chessgames56                                                                                                                                                           I think i was up to 6 aday cant remember the strenght. What was funny with the Trams, was it did not help the pain much but i got very detached and spaced out when i was on them. bodegirl,  That is so funny you bring up that no Doctor told you that the meds, have a different side to them. In my case i just figured since the Doc, prescribes them that is what i should take. But never did i hear anybody say "be careful with these or that they are very thoygh to come off". Hope every body are doing decent. Thanks, F1swede                                                                                

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by ComingClean, Feb 11, 2010
Hello to all...hope all is well with everybody! It's been a few rough hours. I have been mostly working out and working to pass the time. My family is safe and with me after much talking with my wife. I really want to thank everyone who supported me in my time of need. You mean more than you could ever know. So, 8 days clean, and still feeling the mental dependance but body is a lot better. I hope all you well tonight and know my thoughts and prayers are with you all.

"The breeze at dawn has secrets to tell you. Don't go back to sleep." Rumi


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by forget_me_not, Feb 11, 2010
ComingClean, I came back to the computer one more time before bed because I wanted to see if you had been here.  I'm SO glad to see this note.  You did it!!  You made it through the forest!  I'm so happy.  I am taking this good energy, all of it from everyone here, with me into a prayer of gratitude.

Love the Rumi quote...so beautiful and so true.

good night, warriors.
~fmn

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by forget_me_not, Feb 11, 2010
And we are going to be here for/with you every step of the way into Life After Tramadol.  For now, be still and know that it is all going to be OK.  Try not to worry about tomorrow.  Stay in the moment.  Live in your blessings.  It's going to be OK.

~fmn

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 12, 2010
Wow, trams seem to affect us all so differently! I'll drink my coffee in the morning then take half a tab after putting daughter on the bus. Then it's generally an hour and a half before I feel anything. Then slowly...whoosh, a mild euphoria and energetic evenness ensues. This effect lasts until after I finish a late lunch, and fades leaving me with a kind of mellow residue. If I try to take more to regain the initial feeling, it backfires and I only experience anxiety (which is awful). If I take more than a tab in the morning, the euphoria turns into agitation. This is such a weird drug.

Does anyone here know of any negative physical side effects from trams? Could not ascertain much on line.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 12, 2010
Interesting tidbit, regarding the effects of tramadol:

"We have previously studied the analgesic effect of an oral dose of tramadol 2 mg/kg body weight in panels of extensive metabolizers of sparteine with CYP2D6 and poor metabolizers without the enzyme (2). The analgesic effect, as evaluated by human experimental pain models up to 10 h after dosing, was much weaker in the poor metabolizers than in the extensive metabolizers. This confirmed the contribution of the opioid effect of (+)-M1 to the analgesic effect of tramadol, as (+)-M1 was not formed in the poor metabolizers."

In other words "poor metabolizers" do not experience as much of the opiate affect as "extensive metabolizers," meaning you need MORE to achieve the desired affect, and often devoid of the euphoria of opiates. Also,  another study says 30% of the drug is unabsorbed and excreted, so you are feeling the effects of only 60% of whatever dose you are taking!

"Human CYPs are primarily membrane-associated proteins, located either in the inner membrane of mitochondria or in the endoplasmic reticulum of cells. CYPs metabolize thousands of endogenous and exogenous compounds. Most CYPs can metabolize multiple substrates, and many can catalyze multiple reactions, which accounts for their central importance in metabolizing the extremely large number of endogenous and exogenous molecules. In the liver, these substrates include drugs and toxic compounds as well as metabolic products such as bilirubin (a breakdown product of hemoglobin). Cytochrome P450 enzymes are present in most other tissues of the body, and play important roles in hormone synthesis and breakdown (including estrogen and testosterone synthesis and metabolism), cholesterol synthesis, and vitamin D metabolism. Hepatic cytochromes P450 are the most widely studied."

Note the involvement of vitiman D synthesis. This may explain why a lot of people on trams are vitiman D deficient. Poor metabolizers have a reduced P450 function:

"...has reduced activity of the CYP2D6 isoenzyme of cytochrome P-450. These individuals are “poor metabolizers” of debrisoquine, dextromethorphan, tricyclic antidepressants, among other drugs."

Trams might interfere with D synthesis, or there may just be a genetic tendency toward D deficiency.




1090333 tn?1264512093
by GreatWhite, Feb 12, 2010
Heyguys, I havent posted in a while but I thought I would lend some insight into my recovery. I took my last Tram in November and have been clean ever since. I started seeing a therapist and have started to work out a lot of my issues. But we talked about something last week that just kinda opened my eyes. She told me that a lot of people think that when you give up the pills or any drug that there is this miracle feeling of enjoying life and comiing out of a depression. But what she said was a lot of addicts actually realize that when they are off teh drugs, they feel worse. Obviously. And I have been off for about 4 months now and still have bouts of depression. I dont feel different, I dont feel like i have changed at all. I know its going to take a while, but obviously physically i feel different, but emotionally i still feel the same. This has a lot to do with my issues i dealt with growing up, or didnt deal with, for that matter, and the pills just covered it up and let it linger instead of me actually dealing with it. But now i realize its going to take a while to deal with all my issues, and that takes patience. But i dont have any desire to take trams, although i do miss taking vicodin and percs.
  I guess what i am saying is that everyone has their own reasons for taking pills. But dont think that just giving up pills will miracuously cure you. and thats why alot of addicts always go back. There is prob some kind of issues that everyone needs to work out in order to fully recover and feel better about life. Find someone to talk to , reach out and find someone you trust to help you deal with problems. It is helping me immensely and really helping me realize that life is about more than taking pills to cover up pain. its about dealin with pain, learning from it, and moving on in life. Hope everyone battles through the withdrawals, those are bad, but you are about to embark on an experience that will beat you down if you let it. You gotta fight through it and look the monster in the eye, and tell it it will not defeat you. Then once you defeat the Tram monster, you gotta fight the Life Monster. and that can be harder than anything.. goodl luck to everyone...
-chris

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by forget_me_not, Feb 12, 2010
Chris,

beautifully said and oh so true.  WD is just the beginning.  It's the "sober living" that most of us have to learn, learn, relearn, and learn again, one day at a time.  I'm glad you are having a good therapy experience.  We really do have to address the core issues that made us become addicted to start with, and learn new ways to react to things (and ourselves) emotionally.  And it is Hard Work.  Momentum can get you through WD, but eventually, it's going come down to lots of Hard Work.  

That's why I am still here.  To do my Hard Work and support others across the continuum of recovery.

So good to hear from you today.

good morning and blessings, warriors.

~fmn

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 12, 2010
Hi ALL-
Wonderful discussion and sharing!
I kinda look at it like this.....It is harder staying addicted than it is to get clean. Look at all the work it takes to 'manage'
an addiction. Course it does take a lot of work addressing those issues that teem and burn inside like a poisonous stew-
these tend to surface and tantrum when there isn't a drug around to shut them up.

I also try to think that the tram, alcohol, whatever the addictive substance is---that piece is not my problem, rather it is my solution......to my problem..which is that stew I mentioned earlier....
STAY STRONG ALL
thanks for pretty much everything
I depend on this post and I get SO MUCH out of it
I am GRATEFUL to you ALL.

1059641 tn?1277525976
by forget_me_not, Feb 12, 2010
4leef: Exactly!  Perfectly said.  The stew really has been the problem all along.  And yes, it's harder to stay addicted than it is to stay clean.  I had never thought of it in that way per se, but I recall that being the first crystallized piece of hope when I was running scared, still addicted, still popping them because I thought there was no way out.  I realized that I was going to die, without any question, if I kept on.  It was a "kill or be killed" mindset that pushed me through WD, and then, the hard work does begin.  The work of dealing with The Stew.

I also wanted to touch on something Roo said in an earlier post.  When I was in acute WD I was housebound, couchbound, actually.  I couldn't do anything more than the essential functions required to stay alive.  And I told myself that, when that was over, I was going to go somewhere, anywhere.  Just get away for a few days.  Transitioning from acute withdrawal to the days and weeks after is an important time.  I called my best friend, we packed our bags, and started driving.  We ended up on the South Carolina coast, where I spent the next three or four days just being.  I took photos of the moon rising over the sea.  I stood at dawn on the edge of the water and just listened to it washing up, wave after wave.  So soothing.  So centering.  It helped me pull things together in my mind.  I was an important time for me, and while I know not everyone can take a trip, if you can, it can be good.

The blizzard is gone and the sun is shining.  I'm going to go out and make some Vitamin D.

love and strength to all,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by Roo82, Feb 12, 2010
FMN -
my trip to the beach was actually also in South Carolina! What a coincidence! I'm in Texas and we had record-breaking amounts of snow, so I called in to work. I have a killer headache today... That's not wd related obviously, instead it pulls at me... Remembering the pills in my purse. Ugh. Don't want to think about them!

4leef -
Your courage with your sponsor is inspiring. I think I might consider telling some people around me what's goin on. I don't have the courage just yet, but I'm bringing a topic to a meeting tonight and I think we're going to discuss fear - the sinister and corroding thread! Good feedback is good feedback. Period.

I love you all, already, more than I can explain!!

Avatar universal
by grandmagirl, Feb 12, 2010
Happy early" Hearts Day" to everyone...Be good to yourself....

Be strong..It does get better with time....

Peaceful wishes from California

Avatar universal
by grandmagirl, Feb 12, 2010
forgot to add.....go see Avatar...you will LOVE it......

Peaceful wishes from California

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 12, 2010
Hello everyone..tough couple of days...baby grandson admitted to hospital with severe rsv and pneumonia..on oxygen, iv fluids, antiobiotics, breathing treatments..what a tough baby boy he is..i've kept my tram taper level..havent increased..wanted to..didnt..if this baby can fight as hard as he is to just breathe..i can continue my fight to be sure.. fmn..im sure youv'e heard this before..but you have such a beautful writing style..really touches my heart..and makes me feel peaceful. and the piece about your nephew..i amm so sorry..there but for the grace of God..could have been me behind the wheel of that car. Roo ..welcome..im not here very long..but i guarantee that you will not find a more loving, supportive and non judgemental group..this has been my experience and this forum has become my lifeline.  stay here..there's so many gifts. Coming Clean: so good to hear that you made thru your crisis..really thinking about you and praying that you could get some resolution without turning back to the tram. congratulations!  Chess: thank you for your technical information..wow..i am not able to understand all of it first read..it make take a few reads and some research. 4-leef..how are you dear one - your posts make me smile and laugh..thanks for all that you share.. Bode - thanks for the encouraging words on the energy..im headed to the health food store for some B12..
no matter what kind of day im having..to know i can come here and get what i need ..is nothing short of a miracle..
love and hugs,
Gran Pat

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by ComingClean, Feb 12, 2010
Hello all, Hope all is well! Today was a Ok day, I really had bad cravings and actually called my old buddies but to no avail. I guess it's for the better anyway. Things are a little better on the home front, so that is good. I just hope these cravings go away. I'm so afraid I'm going to use. Good news is that I'm on Day 10. Each day clean is another day to a better life. I'm thinking of all of you tonight.

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by forget_me_not, Feb 12, 2010
ComingClean...CONGRATULATIONS on 10 days!!  You have come so far.  You are through much of the physical torment of withdrawal.  Remember it.  Don't ever forget how it felt.  Remember every moment you can, and let that help you be proactive against that fear you have of relapsing.  

I think I mentioned in an earlier comment that I never had cravings after the acute WD was over.  Truthfully, I can't even remember having a craving During acute WD.  I think my body was more dependent on the antidepressant part of tramadol than the opioid part.  If that is possible.  My thoughts regarding your cravings, though:

Cravings are very nonspecific (we sometimes feel "hungry" when we are actually thirsty, even dehydrated).  I think that, sometimes, cravings arise in part from the fact that we have neglected our bodies in ways that have caused us to confuse craving sensations.  Make sure you drink a lot of water and eat a nutritious diet.  I know it seems too simple to be true, but it helps with cravings.  It helps the body get back to normal.

Also, as you know, cravings are very short lived, and as we condition our brains NOT to get a pill everytime we encounter a trigger (stress, pain, emotional upset, could be anything really), the cravings begin to subside.  It's just a matter of time now.  So when you feel a craving, just pause, wait it out.  It's fleeting. Take some deep breaths and notice how your body feels.  How it isn't hurting anymore.  Be aware, all the time, that YOU are in control now.  Not the drug.  You are not a slave anymore.

Just buckle up and hang on.  There are bumps in the road, no doubt.  There will be hard days.  But you have come too far now, and have too much to lose, to ever let this poison control you again.

peace, warriors.
~fmn

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by forget_me_not, Feb 12, 2010
Pat, I am SO sorry to hear about the sick little one.  How scary, awful, helpless.  You are mastering a tough trigger right now, too.  The fact that you have not taken more of the poison is a testament to your commitment to make this taper work for you.  

You just don't know how much I admire that strength.  If you can get through today, you will get through tomorrow, too.  Breathe deeply.  Focus on victory.  You are wrestling this monster to the ground as we speak.  Keep your eyes focused on victory and don't look away.  

If I can help in any way, I will.

love and healing prayers,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 12, 2010
Yes chess..it really comes down to metabolism,enzyme variances,stomach emptying times and body weight that influences how each person reacts to a drug.
I personally think the enzyme variances in people is probably the most important influence.Depending on the drug ,if the metabolite is more active than the drug,and there is less enzyme to metabolize it to the more active metabolite, more drug is needed to get desired effect.Tramadol is this type of drug and has three  metabolites which are more potent than the parent drug.This is especially true for the pain relief and that is why more is needed to get pain relief.Tramadol can be considered a prodrug where one needs adequate enzymes to produce the more potent metabolite
Slow metabolizers need more prodrug to get the desired effect.Codeine is essentially metabolized to morphine in the liver and some people do not have enough enzyme to convert it it morphine and therefore get very little pain relief from it.
Goes to show you everyone is wired differently and reacts differently to drugs for many reasons.
Nevertheless tramadol is a complex molecule with many pharmacological functions in the body.


Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 12, 2010
Desperategran--You, Honey, are doing so well. I hope that little one is stabilized and on the road to recovery, SCARY, huh?
they are so tender and delicate...but REMARKABLY resilient babinos  no? You are doing great and I am so happy for you that you are doing this deal. Keep Goin' Sis....I believe in you!
Comingclean---Nice work on these 10 days, with much personal turmoil no less. Glad your family is home. I always try to think of 'creating a sanctuary' for the children in the home...you know, just the 'feel of things'--- the energy in the house
so the kids can relax in security and grow.
FMN- so glad you are posting regularly, you have so much to offer here. (are you a writer by trade?) seems like it
How's my Bode?
Roo- how did the meeting go tonight?

things good around here...but it IS nightime and the dreaded insomnia might hit, might not....we shall see
Stay Strong Warriors
wishing you a restful night


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by forget_me_not, Feb 12, 2010
Pharma, that makes so much sense to me.  And it does explain why and how some people get "more addicted" at lower doses.  There is such a spread among the people here; some of us have a very low threshold dose (which is what I think of as the minimum one can take and not have WD), while for others it is much higher.  It also explains the variation in withdrawal symptoms.  Some of us experience more intensely physical symptoms, while for others, it's the depression, anxiety, or other psychological/emotional symptoms.  Me...well, I had both, but the mental symptoms (i.e., suicidal ideation) were the worst and scariest.  I can deal with physical pain.  But man, it was SCARY where my mind went during acute WD.  All part and parcel.

I just want to thank you so much, Pharma, for being here.  I don't know if you will ever realize how much you help this crowd.  We love you so.

4leef, thank you so much.  This place is, to me, kind of like a triage center of sorts.  Someone is always around to help newcomers who are struggling, scared, hurting, freaking out.  It's the very same ride we were on just a short time ago.  And there's something powerful in it that keeps me vigilant.  I try to keep up with the posts when I am able, because I know that, in the beginning especially, seconds can make all the difference.  

This place saved my life.

There is nothing more miraculous than witnessing the birth of hope where there was none.  Miracles happen here ALL the time.  Hope is born, and those who receive it turn around and give it to others, and the circle is unbroken.  I am thankful for anything that I can offer, but most of all, humbled to be here.

I'm not a writer by trade, but I love writing, reading, words.  I love what words can do.

It's all going to be OK, warriors.  Wherever you are tonight, Just Keep Going.

peace to all,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by carolann1e, Feb 12, 2010
well I am in the right place, I guess. I am a drug addict in recovery since april 1, 20009. I relapsed on pain meds in september. i have chronic pain and have been struggling--he is my doctor gave me tramadol--he knows I am a drug addict but he said that tramadol was not addictive. I said i think it is. i called a local rehab and they said not to take the stuff. I looked on line and at first all I saw was that it is non addictive --but here all of you are. so what is up with this drug--why is it addictive  and why does the literature say it is not?  ( I believe you folks that it is addictive).

Avatar universal
by Roo82, Feb 13, 2010
4leef - meeting was cancelled due to no power at mtg place. Of all the luck... But went to hear a speaker instead. 'twas good, as always.

I've only taken 50 mg today. Need to get to GNC to pick up supplements for wd symptoms that may be just around the bend. I'm SO grateful I have people to be accountable to. It makes a huge difference!  

Question to all: did tramadol negatively affect anyone else's sex drive? Is that a common side effect?

-Roo

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 13, 2010
Yes it can, Roo.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 13, 2010
For those who are tired and weary of the 'rat-race' there is wonderful site that you might want to check out, where you are never judged or condemned:

http://www.guyfinley.com

It is indeed a breath of fresh air.

Be well all.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 13, 2010
Addiction

Question: Addictions come in many forms - substance abuse, people abuse, financial addiction, sexual addiction - are some good and some bad? What are some Higher thoughts concerning addictions?

Answer: There is no such thing as a healthy addiction, just as it should be clear that -- in reality -- there can be no such thing as any pleasure we are compelled to seek and give ourselves. Anything one part of our self does to drive another part proves the presence of a deep divide within us, where we are at once slave seeking to escape, and the master who releases us only to catch us again. This is, incidentally, one of the hidden aspects or characteristics of all unconscious thought.

Excerpted from Seeker's Guide to Self-Freedom (click title to view product)


Question: I have been working with the non-resistant approach to a troubling habit. As I work, it seems that every time temptation attacks, it lasts for shorter durations of time and doesn't attack as often. Will the temptation eventually cease attacking altogether?

Answer: All things move through life, and through us, in a kind of special bell curve with predictable durations. Temptations will have times of being easy to disavow, and then turn around and be, seemingly surprisingly, almost impossible to handle. All this is to say that yes, the "attacking" forces will diminish if not fed, but stay awake and don't fall prey to the idea that you are now "stronger" than the habit. The only real way to be free of any problem is to outgrow the self that finds some value in it. While the following ideas aren't the whole answer, within them is some higher help you may use to win this inner war: Bad habits have the hold they do, in part, because when we challenge their right to wreck our lives, their "response" is suddenly to seem more powerful. The key here is that this habit has not grown stronger in these moments, only that we have become more conscious of its dictatorship. This new awareness is the seed of our gaining the strength we need to overthrow this tyrant. For when we are tired enough of living beneath its dark domination, we will drop both this habit and the defeat it engenders.

Guy Finley

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 13, 2010
thanks chess- that's lovely stuff.

from Joel Goldsmith's Infinite Way :

......nothing can come to you....NOTHING can be added to you...You are ALREADY the place in consciousness through which Infinity is pouring. That which we term our humanhood MUST BE STILL....so we can be a clear transparency through which your INFINITE individual Self may appear, express or reveal itself.

(emphasis mine)

so the WORK of recovery is learning to get our humanhood to BE STILL...addressing our self pity, resentments, petty drives for more, more more.....he says nothing can be added......what? no more seeking, striving, competing and comparing???
.....well...first off what will I do with all my spare time if I disengage from these 'activities' (that seem to be an addiction in and of themselves?)     ............just Be Still and KNOW
good day all
I am off to al anon and then yoga
ok loves be well and stay strong!!!!!!!

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 13, 2010
You'll find if you go far enough, leef, that the ego, the false-self is nothing but a pretentious wrecker. Pop psychology divides the self into 'good' ego, and bad 'ego' (or good self-esteem, bad self-esteem), but does not understand that is part of the same darkness. Changing the robes one wears is not the same as authentic freedom and transformation. And only genuine humility can set us free.

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by forget_me_not, Feb 13, 2010
Good Morning, Warriors!

23 weeks clean for me today.  So how did I reward myself?  A cup of freshly ground coffee with REAL cream.  The kind with calories and fat and tons of yummy goodness.  It was delightful.

Love this excellent discussion.  Chess, I visited the site and was intrigued by his remarks on attachment.  Kind of a big issue with me.  It's interesting that he notes how our "attachments" are not founded in any truth about who the other is, but in how the other helps forge/reinforce our own desired self-image (paraphrase).  The other could be a person, an activity, an object, a drug, anything.  Very relevant for a lot of us working through The Stew after months, even years of attachment to tramadol or other drugs/substances, months or years of thinking we had to outrun demons in order to experience peace.

To get there requires almost working backward, uncovering layer after layer of our Self in order to even understand the problem we have created.

4leef, your comments are always so spot on.  I thought immediately of a song by my favorite singer/songwriter in the world, Patty Griffin: "it took a while to understand the beauty of just Letting Go."  All that running, seeking, striving, competing, comparing, self-pity, resentment, perfectionism...all are energy-wasting, drastic efforts to Hold On to something that isn't even there to begin with.  A false self.  The opposite of that frantic Holding On...to Just Let Go.  It took me a while to understand it, too.  It took a train wreck, as a matter of fact, to even convince me that I needed to consider it.

Be well, Warriors.  Much love to all of you this day.

~fmn

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 13, 2010
Yum, yum on the real cream, fmn. :-) For me, though, it would have to lactose free.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 13, 2010
"To get there requires almost working backward, uncovering layer after layer of our Self in order to even understand the problem we have created."

Yes, not just through analysis, though, but watching in the present moment. We need something Greater, something Broader to 'save' us from ourselves. I do not generally like to talk about 'God' because there are so many illusory beliefs attached to that word, but there are some wonderful quotes if you don't get tied up with 'religious nonsense.'

"Let go, and let God."

"Thy will be done, not my will be done."

Great conversation, leef. Above all, I think we must  be kind and patient with ourselves, which is often hard to do.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 13, 2010
You guys are so deep and well spoken.All of you have such a beautiful way with words and I love to read your posts.
You all reflect exactly what i am feeling ,but do not have the knack to describe as well as ya"ll.
Yea...we have to learn to let go,be more realistic,not strive so much for perfection...for as I tell everyone here,one is only perfect when one is dead.
Anyway,perfection is like infinity...one never reaches it.
Today I am sad and angry again..because another young woman is being laid to rest in our city.She was killed by the base commander..for thrills or something..no reason.She did not even know him and he must have stalked her and abducted her from her house and sexually assaulted her and killed her.He confessed to another murder in a town close by and 2 home invasions where he sexually assaulted 2 women.
I can't stop thinking and dreaming about it.She looked much like my own daughter.
Sigh..

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 13, 2010
Thank you pharma9, good to see you back with us. :-) Leef and all: if any of you would like to hear Guy speak he is wonderfully generous with his material and offers many full length 'talks' for listening or download:

http://guyfinley.achieveradio.com/

Enjoy!



Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 13, 2010
Wow, great writing. Insightful and interesting!
Gran Pat-how is that grandson of yours? I am thinking of you and hope all is ok.

Things are fine here. Very busy with hockey, in fact my 7 year old son and his team, are playing during intermission of a college hockey game tonight. Very exciting!  Big audience and I am so proud!

I am still taking a tiny crumb of a pill(1/4 tab of 2mg suboxone) and it is my last little crutch before I take the jump off into 'no more pills' next week around this time. I haven't taken a Tram since Jan.13th, exactly one month ago, and I have to admit, that life has been a lot more peaceful since then. I was seriously considering divorce a month ago... But I look back, look back and oh(sigh!) the things I  can see clearly now. Not just on Trams but through my life have been quite reckless. T's just exaserbated the turmoil I already had brewing inside. Now, it's time to really dig deep and work hard at figuring out why I am this way and start rebuilding from the inside out. I have sooo much work to do!  It's overwhelming.. To lead a boring life is unthinkable for me, but I need to. The recklessness has to end and that is now.  I need to be still and be ok with how it FEELS. It is ok to feel pain. And hurt. Shame. Just sit with those feelings and deal I suppose. No more drugs or recklessness. I have to be less selfish. I can't stand all the self focus anymore! It is all about my kids and there happiness, safety.

Anyhoo...I am thinking of all of you. And reading the most amazing writing.  I have all these thoughts and can barely write them all down. I apologize if I am not clear, but always appreciate the thoughtfulness that goes into all your posts out there.  


Bode

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by forget_me_not, Feb 13, 2010
Bode, So glad to hear from you!  Recklessness... oh, goodness.  Yes.  I was the embodiment of recklessness.  In just about every sense of the word.  I just didn't know it at the time.

Chess, it wasn't lactose free, but it was organic.  One of the biggest changes in my day-to-day life since quitting the poison is that, now, I actually want to eat and drink wholesome, good things.  Not at all like before.  When I was on the drug, eating was merely an inconvenience -- something that had to be done in order to not pass out or die.  I would eat whatever was around just to stay awake and alert.  I would eat nothing but chips or pastry in an entire day.  I skipped more meals than I ate.  It was no wonder I felt so terrible.  I neglected the very basics.  I was definitely reckless.  And so, so selfish.

Having someone else to anchor you to this commitment to healing (a child tends to work really well) can be tremendously beneficial, especially early on.  I am raising a 3-year old little girl, and her well-being was part of what kept me going during early WD.  I had to pull myself together and create an environment that supports her, provides her with everything she needs to be safe and feel secure.  And that, my friends, can really focus your mind.  She would ask, "Aw, you feel bad today?"  And all I could think to say was, "No, sweetheart.  I'm the luckiest person in the world."  Because I had been delivered, was being delivered.  And now, sharing the peaceful space with her, it's just joy.

Pharma, I am so, so sorry.  Such terrible, senseless tragedies really test us sometimes.  I understand your anger, your sadness.  I am so sorry.  I'm praying for you to have peace and for the bad dreams to stop.

Pat, how are you?  How is the baby?  If we can help you, we will.

love and healing prayers,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by lilcajundago, Feb 13, 2010
hi everyone   i used to be on morphine for four years.  after both hip replacements they put me on tram til the ankle is done.   last week my doc decided he would take me off the tram and put me on anti inflam ONLY.  this is my first day w no tram.  what will help ease the withdrawels  and will i have them if i was only on 400 mg/day?

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by ComingClean, Feb 13, 2010
hello lilcajundago, I have found that hot baths with epsom salt will help with the body aches. You should have something to help you sleep as well for we all know the biggest problem we all have Wd is insonmia. Melatonin could work, but if you could get a hold of some xanax that will work too. Just remember xanax in itself is habit forming so be careful. B12 tablets were a godsend to me. Immonium Ad for the runs will help also. I wish you well in your recovery.

On another note, I have one vicoden sitting right in front of me and I have no idea how I'm not going to take it. Jeez, I just don't know what to do. Hope all is well for everyone. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 13, 2010
There is a product called redoxonB,water soluble vitamin that contains 1000mg vitamin C and b vitamins and magnesium and combined with B12 1000mcg sub lingually(methycobalamin is better absorbed).It is a bit expensive but take it at least a few times a day,b12 once a day,vitd2000u/day and lots of fluids .omega3s and coenzyme Q10 at least 100mg/day.All these help the nervous system and immune system to fight the big battle against opiate or tramadol addiction.
Check out the vitamins and amino acid prorocol.I personally like the above vitamins during and after recovery.

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 13, 2010
Bode- there you are! Sounding great! Hockey is thrilling, no? raising children who are grounded and make decisions that indicate they care about themselves is thrilling, no? Looking deeply into Your Truth is thrilling, no? Set the bar High Honey, turn your mind to One Goal....and make it a BIG ONE.....(mine is inner peace....shh don't tell) Out of that goal flows all other things that are truly meaningful in life. You are such a refreshing, courageous young woman...very honest and true....

lilca- 400mg a day will cause w/d.....if you want to do a wean you could talk to your MD....otherwise, hot baths, heating pad, this post, and as coming clean said insomnia, restless legs, stomach problems are common ..... I had lots of trouble with anxiety and depression...as you will see reading posts..it is variable depending on several things.....keep posting======== we are glad you are here
pharma- fmn said it all.......I am so sorry you have this in front of you now....I pray your heart grieves as you need to and then finds peace

yoga and al anon were wonderful today......my new meds are really helping with the depression...the anxiety is improved but still present in unpredictable waves     yikes
no cravings...except just before yoga class....tram used to give me strength and energy and enough pain relief to have quite an experience .....I am thinking I can recalibrate this with the help of God...look at it differently...and I am trying to practice more regularly and see me...often.... on the mat....tram-free.......seeing who she is and what that's like
yeah
ok loves- keep going
I believe in you


Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 13, 2010
4leef..I know about the not so much cravings but association with drugs in certain situations.I used to fortify or reward myself for a 12 and 1/2 hour day ahead of me with the opiates because I rationalized that I deserved and needed them for strength for the day.That was a bunch of hokey...because after i quit I found i did not need them and functioned better without and survived a 12 and 1/2 hour day with my own resources.(otc pain meds)
The amazing thing was that once I realized that I did not need the opiates,I no longer craved them.I have very fleeting thoughts but they are very fleeting..much like when I quit cigarettes.They no longer interest me at all.
I am just getting used to having a full day off each week and am going to look for a yoga class.I think with my rheumatoid arthritis it is a viable exercise alternative and am looking forward to golfing every Saturday when the summer comes
For the last 15 years I have basically worked 6 and 1/2 days a week and am looking forward to 1 full day to myself.
I rewarded myself for all those working hours with opiates,but no more...I have been clean for over 5 months and intend to remain so.

Avatar universal
by Roo82, Feb 13, 2010
Ok everyone! I've finally declared WAR! And what is interesting is that it's the sex drive thing that pushed me over the edge! I'm 27 yrs old and just moved into my house with my boyfriend and I'm too young to be feeling low to no libido, dammit!! So I told my boyfriend, and he wasn't upset, just said ok. We talked about how much I've taken for how long and he doesn't seem to think I'll have much WD to deal with. I'm relieved.

one less person to hide from. Hallelujah!

Here we go. Day 1. Poison, BE GONE!

Day 1!

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 13, 2010
Way to go Roo....yes...declare war.That is why we are the tramadol warriers.We fight a battle against tramadol and opiates.This is a war that you will determine to win and can win.We will help you and I guarantee your senses will return even more than before and it will be worth the fight.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 13, 2010
Oops spelt warriors wrong..say that 3 times fast.Spellcheck did not catch it.Looks like worriers....which we are not.On my third glass of wine starving waiting for my son to make his first salmon dish for me.
I LOVE MY LIFE.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 13, 2010
PS He just brought in a snack for me while I wait for dindin..brie cheese with bread.
Gosh...Life is good.

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by forget_me_not, Feb 13, 2010
Roo...Dear, your first post contained the phrase, "I'm overwhelmed and scared to death."  -- And here you are, now, declaring unequivocal WAR on this drug!  And that is why you will win.  Your fear in the beginning is a Very Good Thing.  It is a reminder of how serious a threat this addiction can be to you.  But ultimately, what it takes to get it done is an all-out Declaration of War, and you are there.  I'm so proud of you.

Just be prepared for the withdrawal symptoms, and that way you won't be caught off guard when they come.  It's just a moment in time.  You have the rest of your good, healthy life to look forward to.  

Get some B12, Immodium, and some high-protein foods.  Lots of water.  Some chamomile or other tea blend that will help you relax.  Epsom salts for the bath.  Treat yourself WELL during this time, and stay with us as much as you need to.  We'll do anything and everything we can to walk with you and help you through.

Pharma, how nice that your son is making dinner for you!  I also made dinner for my parents, my brother, his wife, and a couple of friends.  I used to hate these social occasions, but I have found that my post-tramadol self still enjoys spending time with people.  Talking, listening, laughing.  It is these things that make life rich.

Peace, warriors.  I am so very proud of all of you.

~fmn

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by forget_me_not, Feb 13, 2010
Lilcajundago...I am so distraught by your post.  That is extremely bad medicine on the part of your doctor.  Bad, bad, awful medicine.  To force a patient to go cold turkey from 400mg is terrible medicine.  It is unacceptable.

My first instinct is to suggest that you see a different doctor.  Perhaps you have another doctor in your area that you can trust.  Just go in and be truthful about the situation.  Be honest and request their help with a gradual taper.

I am just furious that this still goes on.

I'm so sorry for what you are going through, but take heart...we'll be here to help you any way we can.

Talk to a doctor.  Ask for help.  You don't deserve this.

~fmn

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 14, 2010
Lilca- I agree with FMN ....I had horrible w/d from 200-300mg daily. Please read posts here and contact this MD or another about this situation if you want to wean.


Happy Heart Day All---I went to a dinner party with my partner last night. It is a group of couples who have been hanging out since college..(35 yrs ago)  ......hmm that's a long time....anyway I am his partner for the last 2+yrs...before that? a 32 year marriage...so I did a lot of listening to their stories of exploits over the years. One of the men won't say hello, make eye contact or acknowledge me at all.....he is much more upset about the divorce than my partner is, apparently....I just kept in touch with God when this behavior caused discomfort in me.....vented about it a bit on the way home...then let it go
..God just kept reassuring me that it was not my problem...but if I react to it negatively in any way it will become my problem...at least in part.....be still and KNOW......I am pleased in my heart about this experience
during this dinner my phone rang....it was my son calling from 1400 miles away....he is 21 and was at a party...he called to wish me a Happy Valentines day...
It matters to me how I conduct myself....and how willing I am to Let Go....this, my friends, is a very small matter...but alas...I am sure I would have made a mountain out of this molehill while taking the Tram...it caused me to be emotionally labile
reactionary, sensitive and fragile....and sometimes edgy and mean spirited...I did not feel good about this but there was NO CONTROLLING it.....I tried....I knew Tram was destructive to my psyche, that, after the 'glow' would come the 'blow' ...uh oh
Roo- anger has more energy than fear....FMN says it so well
pharma- what a joyous thing to be clean and able to appreciate family in a new way

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by forget_me_not, Feb 14, 2010
Happy Valentine's Day, Warriors!  I hope you are all well and strong today.  

Fight on.
~fmn

Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 14, 2010
Hey all,
4leef-You are an angel. YOU are so very honest and I think I speak for all of us, we love you.  Happy V's Day to you.
fmn-thanks for being there. I always feel that I am not alone when I read your posts. You are so lovely.
Roo-great work!  We are cheering for you.
Pharma-I know what you mean by 'rationalizing' the use of opiates!  How easily our minds can play tricks on us.

Watching my little guy play hockey this morning, with my husband and little girl cheering on the team, I felt joy, I mean the REAL kind.  It's been a pretty good day.

Thinking of you all. Happy V's Day!
xo
Bode

Avatar universal
by Roo82, Feb 14, 2010
Day 2. My Boyfriend proposed at 2am last night. I'm high on the euphoria of this amazing event. Any physical weirdness has fallen into the background and hasn't caused me any trouble... Yet, anyway. I'm so amazed at how God is taking care of me right now. Insomnia feels like that inability to sleep because I'm too excited. Anxiety can be attributed to the excitement too. The ADD part seems no different than having soo many things to think about (in a GOOD way).

This even beats a lazy beachside vacation.

This is how God works in my life. Thank you guys for being here, at this safe place in cyberspace. Thank you thank you THANKYOU!!! if no one's told you yet, I love you.

Happy V Day, Warriors!

-Roo

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 14, 2010
Congratulations Roo...You have something even more than the sex to quit for.You can start a new life clean and sensuous.
The senses return with a vengeance  when tramadol and opiates are out of the system.
You are going to need all your vitamins and nutrients to heal and keep up your energy.
Valentine day is sooo romantic.

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 14, 2010
Congrats Roo on your engagement!! pharma said it best....you will feel an increase in libido as well as other very enjoyable results of getting off opiates and AD's.
Bode-girl-  when I read your post the tiny hairs on the back of my neck started tingling....a sure sign that what I am experiencing is hugely important....your connection with this abiding 'joy' ....is hugely important..these times are a glimpse into the eternal, I believe...and are the only thing that REALLY matters in this 'thing called life'

when I was a young girl, I lived in a home with 2 alcoholic parents...my Dad was also in and out of mental institutions for depression and anxiety....I swear to God I never REALLY knew what the h*ll was going on...the first time I took a drink at age 14......I became an alcoholic myself...this is how it went ; on the very first sip as the wine went down my throat it kind of burned and tasted mildly repugnant..ewww....another sip and another and the burning went away.... then I noticed a warmth starting right below my heart...... as I continued drinking the wine the warmth spread out from this center throughout my body...I had no worries, no fear, everything seemed.....WONDERFUL.....I felt a warmth I had never experienced in my life!...the nagging voice in my head that said "you are not cute enough... be careful, don't make any mistakes,....quiet or you'll say something dumb....what if my friends stop liking me?" ..... terrified of talking to boys...but craving their attention, wanting to connect with girls but not knowing how.......ALL THIS STOPPED...it was just quiet and warm inside and I could  talk to boys and be spontaneous, hang out with girls and laugh and feel 'a part of' ....I felt FREE.......I was hooked in that moment...ever trying to retrieve that first reprieve from my inner demons........

I know that this journal is about Tram ....and here I am rambling about my first drinking escapade .....but this part of me drives my addictions and I wanted to share it here

thanks for your kind attention
I am so grateful to be a part of this journal
Stay Strong
and Know
that YOU ARE LOVED  

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 14, 2010
addendum :

I have since learned that a reprieve from these demons will not come from avoidance but rather from becoming aware of them, talking about them with those I trust, developing a 'new way' of being in the world which requires that I transcend them

many approaches are applicable----
   To sum up
I needed to understand that I only had one problem that needed correction...as it is corrected all others take their course
and that is that I believed I was operating apart from The Absolute
....and this just wasn't true

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 15, 2010
"I have since learned that a reprieve from these demons will not come from avoidance but rather from becoming aware of them, talking about them with those I trust, developing a 'new way' of being in the world which requires that I transcend them."

I think you may very well be on to something here clover--pursue it and it will reveal much to you. Just be aware that revelations are not always pleasant, thought they are always freeing. :o)

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 15, 2010
Down to a quarter tab now, only about 5 trams left. Tomorrow will begin a 48 hour detox, and see what happens. If there are no restless legs, I can go for a week and be off. Do strengthening exercises for my neck and upper back. Roo: I don't remember how much you were taking, but maybe fear of W/D is worse than the W/D (thought WMD ha ha) itself. Hang in there!

For some reason, Dextromethorphan (cough syrup) seems to help. Maybe pharma can tell us why.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 15, 2010
Just typed Dextromethorphan in on Google:

We report on a patient who had taken the centrally acting analgesic tramadol for over 1 year. The compound had proven to be sufficient to treat her painful episodes related to fibromyalgia. Due to lack of supply while being on a trip, intake of the drug was stopped abruptly, resulting in the development of classical abstinence-like symptoms within 1 week. Abstinence-like symptoms consisted of restlessness and insomnia for which the benzodiazepine lorazepam was given. Diarrhoea and abdominal cramps were treated with the peripherally active opioid loperamide, while bouts of cephalgia were treated with sumatriptan. Diffuse musculoskeltal-related pain and restless leg syndrome (RLS) were treated with dextromethorphan. All these different medications proved to be efficacious as they resulted in the cessation of symptoms. Within 1 week symptoms ceased and the patient regained her normal activities without any sequelae. Although tramadol is considered a non-habit- and non-dependence-forming analgesic, abstinence symptoms are likely to develop following abrupt cessation of intake, especially when the compound had been taken over 1 year. Therefore patients should be advised of such an effect whenever they decide to stop intake or their physician is planning to switch to another medication. To avoid abstinence-like symptoms doses should be slowly tapered down.

Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 15, 2010
4leef-thank you for sharing with us. You are so helpful. By sharing your experience with us, we LEARN. You have such self-awareness and wonderful insight into what led you to the place you are at now. I know that I, personally, relate to so much of what you say and am learning. You are spreading your hope and courage. Thank you.  

Congrats Roo! What a great Valentine's Day for you.

I was reading over some of Emily's journals/posts. How truthful. Inspiring. Comforting. Fight. Declare WAR. That will always hit home for me. I have declared war too. I will have to fight for the rest of my life.

Warm thoughts and wishes,
Bode

Avatar universal
by JG525, Feb 15, 2010
Sorry I haven't checked in...a little overwhelmed by all the posts.

Roo- congrats on the engagement!  I think the SNRI like component in trams causes the libido thing.  I am also on Anti-depressants though, mine hasn't rebounded.  If you're on ADs, that could be what's causing it.  I stopped Effexor and I'm temporarily on prozac.  A couple more weeks and hopefully I'll be free of that too!

I should have about 100 days now...need to adjust my tracker.

Jenny

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 15, 2010
Clover...you nailed it..Alcohol makes us lose our fears and inhibitions and makes us feel more confident.Many of us grew up in less than perfect homes and feel inadequate and inferior.My father drank and I always tried to stay out of his way and was always afraid to "rock the boat".I am still like that and avoid confrontations or situations where I have to assert myself.I am the master of compromise and get through most things by compromising.Not necessarilly a bad thing.
If its not alcohol,it will be something else..like drugs that make us forget our fears.If these fears are obsessive compulsive and crippling,we may need drugs to help...but ordinary fears should be confronted and dealt with not using drugs but other coping mechanisms.
You do have a wonderful self awareness and this will help you in your healing.
I have always said that Nyquil without the decongestant is helpful during withdrawals to help sleep.It contains 1000mg tylenol for pain,doxylamine(an antihistamine causing drowsiness)and dextromethorphan(a very mild opiate that I feel soothes the opiate receptors while in withdrawal).Dextromethorpan in massive doses has its own problems but in stated doses is not habit forming or addicting.I personally feel the one with the alcohol is more effective,but if you want to avoid the alcohol there are gelcaps.Must get the one without the decongestant.
Nyquil in itself can be habit forming and should only be used for a short period of time during withdrawals.
It helped me get through the worst of withdrawals.I used less than a full bottle.
I also found a product called RedoxonB  that contains 1000mg vit C,B vitamins and magnesium in a fizzy tablet that is dissolved in water or juice.I would recommend it along with the other at least 3 or 4 times a day.It is more expensive than tablets,but for withdrawals I would use it.I did not think of it for my own WD but think it would be worthwhile to try if needed.
Another product is Emergen C with vitamins and minerals.
Good luck with your jump off.
I think the opiate withdrawal will not be as difficult as the antidepressant withdrawal but with your new and brave attitude you will succeed.


Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 15, 2010
you guys are SO SMART!! I wish I had known the nyquil angle....I can see how that....and all the other suggestions made by pharma would be really helpful---thanks pharma....awesome
chess thank you....yes....not comfortable, sometimes.....but healing.....who (besides me...) said this was going to be easy? I am still convinced that it is harder to stay sick than get well.......
Bode-  hi Honey! keep goin'
Jen- hi, how was your valentines day?
ok all.....BE STRONG
loves

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 15, 2010
Thanks clover :-) I discovered the cough medicine quite by accident. I HATED the restless legs. And I was on less than 150 mg of trams at that time. Perhaps the depression wasn't too bad for me because of my exercise routine, though there was a kind of lethargy associated with that condition.

I wanted to ask pharma's opinion about the herb Kratom, and wonder if it might help us get over the most difficult hump of W/D. I've read it's a weak Mu-opioid agonist, similar to Tramadol. Would you recommend it?

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 15, 2010
Dear Sweet Fellow Warriors:  been gone couple days:  Good news: baby grandson went home from hospital last night his battle with RSV..he's doing better.  Good News:  did not increase on my taper stayed steady.  Not so good news: i travel on sunday for a week for work..completely unprepared..mentally, physically and ever other way..i am scrambling..and of course i will be challenged not to increase the tram to try and accomplish all that i have to by then. Can i tell you what it is like to come here to this forum? it's like coming home..the warm fuzzy good functional happy home ...with people who care and love me and want me to get better...words really cannot describe the meaning this place has for me and all of you. I've been trying to catch up on posts...i feel so humbled to be a part of this group...Fmn, 4 Leef, Pharma, Bode, Chess, Roo (CONGRATULATIONS!!) , Coming Clean, Jenny, Emily..all of you..will never, ever know what your words have done for me. ...Hope and belief that I can get to the other side of this and really start to taste, smell, feel, hear, and experience life without the trams..and i know that it wont be easy...they will always be calling me ..always..though i hope the call weakens with time. 4 leef thank you for this quote:
"needed to understand that I only had one problem that needed correction...as it is corrected all others take their course
and that is that I believed I was operating apart from The Absolute
....and this just wasn't true "
Very powerful...thank you..before trams..i prayed, meditated, yoga, exercise, kept up with friends and family..loved my music and listened all the time..read..was really a participant in life... i am definitely spiritually unplugged and this..for me..is a huge problem. thank you for the reminder.
I really can say..that I love you all...and dont know how to thank you for welcoming me into your fold and for all the encouragement and support..Congratulations to all of you wherever you are at with the battle..i hope that I too can look this monster in the face one day and scream back  "enough"...im in it to win it..
Love and blessings,
des grandma pat



Avatar universal
by Roo82, Feb 15, 2010
Thanks, everyone, for the well wishes!

Chess - I was on 50-150mg per day for about 8 months (with a week-long break 2 months in), averging about 100mg. 50mg on the low end and 150mg/day would be pretty rare for me. I'm on day 3 with almost no W/D symptoms showing at this time. I've been surprisingly alert today, at work... A little body temp fluctuations, but that seems to have evened itself out. Only 15 minutes until lunch and going to take in some serious Vitamin D at the tanning bed. I do remain cautious and vigilant. I remember an old friend who had been on Ultram for years that used to say, "You could be fine for a month, then wake up one morning in a full-body lock!" I will keep this in my mind...

Jenny - No, not on any ADs. Tram was the only thing I was taking regularly. I think I'm already starting to rebound from the libido suppression, but looking forward to being back to 100%. Congrats on the plans to rid yourself of Prozac. Good for you. If it's not overly necessary for a chemical imbalance, you'll be better off without it too.

I went over 2 years without any substances in my body, and I'm grateful to be on the road back to the awe of life without something to enhance or mask it. Life is interesting enough, without the help of Tram... or other mind alterers. I was told once -- "There is often a misconception of 'boredom'... many times, it's simply 'serenity.'"

Thank you all again -- You are my people!!

Roo

Avatar universal
by JG525, Feb 15, 2010
Darn...I typed a whole reply then accidently deleted.  This site is moving slowly.  Will try later!

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by forget_me_not, Feb 15, 2010
Pat, I've been hoping to hear from you!  So, so glad your baby grandson is going to be ok.  Scary, scary stuff when a little one is down like that.  I am thankful for his healing, and SUPER thankful to hear you're holding fast to that taper!  Keep it going.  Yes, you're in it to win it.  And there's nothing you can't come here and ask for if you need support, help, a vent, or pretty much anything else.  We're here for you.

Yay, Roo!  I hoped (reeeally hoped) you wouldn't experience any withdrawal.  That's just wonderful.  I am glad you're able to get out of the clutches of this poison before it made any permanent marks.  

Yes, there can be those random, weird experiences wherein you're doing great, sailing right along, and Wham.  It's happened to most of us, but since you're not experiencing any WD at this point, I'd say that is a good sign for your future.

Bode, I agree that some of us will be in a fight with "it" - whatever "it" is - for the rest of our lives.  But the fight changes in time.  It gets much easier.  The things that work against us are inside us (self-esteem, self-worth, fear, on and on), not outside us (a pill that is trying to put us in the grave).  It's easier, I'm learning, to stare at those things until I understand them and what I need to do to change them.  Some days it's still very hard.  But compared to trying to live with this poison... piece of cake.

love, peace, and healing,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 15, 2010
Thx Fmn..you are so very sweeet..i sure appreciate your concern..
Roo - amazing quote worth seeing again:
"There is often a misconception of 'boredom'... many times, it's simply 'serenity.'"
Wow!!!  praying for ability to distinguish....
thanks for sharing...
love,
pat


Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 15, 2010
Hello Everyone!

There have been some very deep and meaningful posts lately and I wanted to thank everyone for their lovely wisdom and for taking the time to sit down and write down what so many of us can't express in words.

I am on day 15 today and I feel like the ADD syndrome has left me and I am so alert!!  I don't feel like I need to put the wiper blades on in my brain and clear the windshield anymore.

I could never have done this without any of you out there and I am deeply grateful for each of  you.  I have learned so much about myself and I have put God first in my life again and left the bill bottle behind!!!

To anyone out there that comes to this site for knowledge about tramadol for the first time and is considering quitting, read each and everyone of the journals.  The words you will read and the knowledge you will gain will become your  armor for the hardest battle of your life.  Fight hard - you will become victorious with the troops that are waiting in the background for you.

Love and Hugs to all.





Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 15, 2010
Sandia...CONGRATULATIONS...  i so appreciate hearing about the add syndrome..as i feel im in the clutches of that right now..if you saw my room, my desk..my mind..you would know..but then it sounds like you do know. thank you for sharing..we are mightily armed out here with so much support.
hugs,
pat

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by EmilyPost, Feb 15, 2010
This thread is closed

Please move to Part 28

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/162560

Avatar universal
by CDASH, Feb 15, 2010
Hi,
I never realized how many people have gone through and are going through the same addiction that I was until I found this site.  I guess I feel like sharing my story since it is a complete secret to everyone I know except for my girlfriend.  

I have been completely off tramadol for 11 days now and I feel like I am finally going to make it through this attempt.   I was on tramadol for over a year and I never realized how hard it would be to quit.  I made several attempts to quit but I only could make it a few days before I just couldnt take it any more.  The restlessness was the worst thing for me.  I couldnt sit still,  I had to constantly move just to forget about how i felt.  Trying to sleep was almost impossible, constantly moving my legs, rolling back and forth just to try to get comfortable.  It would take hours to finally fall asleep.  The brain zaps were horrible too.  So the first few attempts at quitting didnt work.  I gave in and continued taking on average 8 pills a day.  I had to tell my girlfriend because I knew I couldnt quit on my own.  She was so understanding of my problem I was kinda suprised but she is really the only reason why Im doing ok now.  

She and I both agreed that tapering was the best way to quit.  We slowly worked down until I was only taking 4 a day, then 3, 2, and finally down to 1, but it took about 4 months to get there.  It was definitely not easy to get to that point and then stopping completely still was very hard.  The brain zaps and restlessness were back but not nearly as bad.  I am still getting the brain zaps every once and a while but its not too bad.  I just hope that I can get my life back on track and feel the way I used too.  I used to be in good shape and felt more outgoing but tramadol changed all that.  I am hoping that I can make it through this and start feeling myself again.  I thank everyone else for sharing too.  It helps to know that your not the only one out there having these problems.  I think doctors should be more aware of these withdrawal symptoms as I always heard that tramadol is not supposed to be as addictive as vidodin or percocet but I completely disagree.  I have taken both for long periods and  I never had problems quiting vicodin or percocet.  Thank you all very much and good luck.

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by AmyLL, Feb 23, 2010
Hey everyone....
I've been lurking here for a few weeks now, and I finally feel brave enough to post. I've been dancing with Trams for years now (I'm 21), and am so tired of it all...I'm tired of the ups and downs, of the panic/fear when its refill time and wondering if this will finally be the time I'm cut off, tired of not being ME. I was first prescribed these hellish pills when I was 15 years old and experiencing joint bleeds due to a bleeding disorder, horrible menstrual cramps and headaches - it was the equivalent of my OTC pain reliever. I have a true allergy to acetaminophen, and can't take NSAIDS due to said bleeding problems, so this was a Godsend.

For a few years, things were fine...I only took 'em when I needed to, but soon I realized they made me 'happy'. I was more confident, talkative, energized. I wanted to do things and be someone. So I started taking some before I had to go to work, since it made time go by quickly. And then I took them before I knew I had a meeting, or when I was going out with friends. Then I was taking them every morning when I woke up to just get out of bed. At this point I knew I had a problem, but was too scared of W/D's to stop. And thus, for the past 3 years, I've battled with this. At my worst I was taking 400/450 milligrams a day (last summer), but have since weened myself down to 200/250 daily.

I C/T'd once about 2 years ago due to a stomach bleed which required me to take nothing by mouth for a week...and it was the worst week of my life. I can remember laying in bed with my legs jerking, my throat throbbing and tears running down my face because my brain hurt so bad, if that makes any sense.
I don't want to go through that again...but I don't want to live like this anymore either. I want to be healthy (as possible). I've always been interested in yoga, alternative medicine, etc. I want live that lifestyle, not this one, full of fear and anger and pain. I want to be myself!

I got married 4 months ago, and I had to make sure I took my daily ultram that morning before I walked down the aisle...it sickens me now to think about it.

Now, my husband and I want to start trying to conceive, and I want my body to be in as prime condition as possible. I'm so afraid, but I want this so badly...so I'm ready. Or at least as ready as I'll ever be.

I have 5-HTP, St. Johns and Kava. I have multi - v's, potassium, l-tryrsone and b complex. I have 30 trams on this RX, and 2 refills on that, for a total of 90 left.

How do I go about doing this? I don't think I can C/T, but I want to do drag it out forever either...
Thank you for everything...you've been such a source of encouragement for me over the past couple weeks, and I'm forever in debt to you guys w/o you even knowing it. You have made me believe that I can do this.


Avatar universal
by loopylou2u, Mar 11, 2010
ive been on tramadol every day for 4yrs!! the doctor keeps giving me repeat presciptions, even thou i havn,t been in pain for 3 years!!!.  4 months ago i got diagnoised for biopolar type 2 and they decided to prescribe me epiluim. when i started taking eplium i realised after 9 days that i havn,t taken any tramadol!! i was on 2x 50mg everyday. and i wasn,t really missing it.
then these other drugs started having loads of side effects so they stopped them. and suprise suprise after 24hrs i needed tramadol!! so im back on them. i want to go off them but being a single mum and work im frightened about who is going to look after my three yr old if i get bad cold turkey. what should i do??

Avatar universal
by Katster_in_the_Hatster, Mar 23, 2010
Sorry I just read on the site thread I just posted on that you are all here now -- this is my story that I wanted to share with other people having difficulties with tramadol:  
I have not been on this site before but my searching on google got me here, thank goodness.  My experience with tramadol is very short-lived.  I have many conditions that I live with, but the biggest problem I have is debilitating chronic pelvic pain.  After nerve blocks didn't work on me, the pain clinic wanted me to try Tramadol.  The first day, oh my, life was great.  It was the first time in over a year that I had a very low amount of pain -- probably a 4-5/10.  I couldn't believe it.  I was very excited.  I started on 100 mg and I was supposed to go up to 200 mg after 2-3 days.  Well for the first 2 days I didn't need more so I didn't increase it.  Then the pain started getting much worse.  I should mention at this point that I had a few hives on the first day, broke out in a rash on the second, and convinced myself that it was my shampoo (which is completely hypoallergenic -- the best one out there -- Cliniderm) and not the medication, so I continued taking it.  Well, going up to 200 mg was not a pleasant experience.  I threw-up A LOT, had vertigo and broke out in a ridiculous rash and hives all over.  Then I obviously knew it wasn't the shampoo (which I had switched anyhow).  I convinced myself that even though the rash & hives were from tramadol (and didn't stop after I switched the shampoo) that my body had gotten used to the 100 mg and went back down.  The next day was insane:  I experienced withdrawal symptoms.  First, I was having hallucinations... are you kidding me!?  Then there was the worst chills I've ever experienced other than the time my body was going into shock from pain --- I could NOT get warm no matter what.  Obviously vomiting followed and a horrible headache, etc.  This happened after ONE day of taking 200 mg and it wasn't like I stopped cold turkey.  Anyhow, after that I kept getting rashes & hives -- in more places than before so you could argue it was getting worse -- but I still felt safe.  Even after I took 1/4 of a gravol to stop vomiting and my breathing got really bad -- I still felt safe.  My pain continued to get worse.  I had my appointment with my doctor today -- just over 10 days from when it was prescribed.  He looked horrified as he asked me the following:  "So you're in a lot of pain i.e. the tramadol isn't helping your pain, you're vomiting, obviously allergic with hives and a rash, vertigo and constipation and you want to increase the dose, have me give you something to take away the hives (I'm already on prescription strength antihistamine) and give you an oxygen tank so that you can breath when you have to take gravol to stop the vomiting..." Umm ya.  I actually thought I was being reasonable.  He told me to go off it immediately since I am allergic to it and the allergy is obviously getting worse and could soon become very dangerous (like throat closing up - I've had that before and carry an epipen) and to just get rid of it along with my other various narcotics that I use for flares of interstitial cystitis.  It wasn't until I was walking to the pharmacy that I realized why he was looking at me like I had lost my mind... I'm addicted to it --- body and mind which NEVER happens to me.  Even on high levels of long-acting morphine, I can tell when my BODY is addicted but my mind.. that's entirely another thing.  I kept almost pleading with him saying I was scared and nervous to go off it... yikes.  Anyway, when I realized the addiction and thought about not taking it tonight (remember only 100 mg!!) I couldn't comprehend it.  That scared the !*%# out of me because I used to be addicted to cocaine 6 years ago.  I literally thought I couldn't not not take it so the rational part of me that's left gave it to the pharmacist so I wouldn't even have the option.  It isn't time for another dose until 2 1/2 hrs from now but I am very scared and nervous and ugh... I even thought of calling my pharmacist and seeing if I could get him to give it back to me.  I can't believe how messed up this drug is.  It is absolutely CREATING THE PAIN that I'm feeling right now so I'll increase it.  Just the fact that I stayed on this pill for more than ONE DAY since I had hives on the first day is really scary to me... it reminds me of cocaine --- I was addicted overnight.  I do not have an addictive personality, obviously, as I carry around several different strengths and forms of narcotics with me all the time and have never abused them.  Ever.  This is supposed to be much less addictive than narcotics or so I was told.  This is very messed up.  I feel like they never tried it on humans to see if it was indeed habit forming.  Anyhow, this site has helped me a lot and even though I'm completely terrified to start going into withdrawal, especially because some of the pain I'll be feeling is real and not created, I'm so glad to have found this site because it shows me that I'm not crazy and this happens to many people who are given Tramadol.  I have so much respect for all of you that are trying to get off it.  It took me over a year to get off cocaine and I had one night of going back to it after that year, but I've been clean for over 5 years.  One thing I used to help me speed up and successfully detox from cocaine was silicea gel but I don't know if it would make this better or worse.  Anyhow, thank you all of you for your testimonies and information and I hope my story helps other people see how hardcore this medication--- sorry no, DRUG is.  Good luck to you all! xo

Avatar universal
by HanztheDawg, Apr 01, 2010
Hello All,
     I'm an ex-Marine that has broken just about every bone in my body.  I have had my back and neck fused, my shoulder reconstructed and both my knees scoped.  The Navy docs wanted to cut off my right leg from the kness down when I had a severe compartment syndrome in the knee and didn't go to sick bay for 3 days.  That being said and that being no excuse, I'm addicted to pain meds.  I took my very first narcotic in '99 with my back.  Since then it has graduated to 8-7.5 lortabs, 12-50 tramadols, and 3-350 somas a day.  I never had a problem quitting anything before: smokeless tobacco in '86, smoking '88, alcohol in '96.  I never had withdrawals with any of them, not even the alcohol.  I self medicated with it the 10 years I was in the Marines and I drank ALOT, hell I was a Marine.
     I was glad to see that others have the same problems as I do and that I'm not crazy.  I have stopped (not quit, quitting is forever) the lortabs and somas a number of times with no problems.  Somas are easy, I even forget to take them.  The tramadols are hell on earth to quit.  I get sick after 12-18 hours after stopping.  I will try the "fixes"  I have read on here, my wife will appreciate it.  I have the night sweats, brain zaps, restless legs, nausea, NO ENERGY.  I have had the "suicide" thoughts which I thought would never happen to me, crap I was mentally stronger than that, other people get it.  I have a problem in that I'm addicted to "pain free".  I make it maybe 3 days and I have to cave to the "Mighty T".  Was nice to vent and read other's vents.

thx y'all

Avatar universal
by HanztheDawg, Apr 01, 2010
Oh and that wasn't an April Fools joke.

Avatar universal
by junkie_jess, Apr 21, 2010
Hi guys:
I’m so great full that I found this website today and got to read your posts. I’m probably the only one in this forum from my country which is Iran. I’m 23,I’ve been hooked on tram for 3 years steady now, I’ve lost absolutely EVERYTHING and every day I feel like my brain is actually shrinking, I’m dead from inside, what is this???the euphoria was probably the first month, now I’m constantly shaking, and I’m restless and confused. I have lost EVERYONE,I have no feelings left, I don’t remember who I used to be before this,I remember being happy, having dreams,now what?I think of death everyday!no one knows!no one can help,you guys can probably go talk to a shrink or s.th, we don’t have anyone who can understand that I was a good kid who just broke down under the pain and the pressure that was too much,I wanted to be numb,everyday I have new symptoms,lately it’s dizziness,the kind you can’t possibly imagine,intense vertigo,everything is in motion and you feel like your head is gonna burst and then there’s the restlessness that is so severe sometimes,I can’t sit for one sec,I keep sweating,god what Do I do?you guys can blame the pharmaceutical companies for making this POISON so available, guess where I get mine?my mum’s a doctor,I’ve stolen her prescriptions and I forge her signature,I take 1200 mg a day,some times more,and these trams are worse than yours,these are made by stupid Iranian companies, every minute of every day is all about: how many do I have? Did I get them? Do I have it in my purse? And then when I run out,I have to drive all across town to find pharmacies who don’t recognize me,cause a couple of times I’ve been asked why am I always getting trams?everything’s gone, I’m a good kid,I got my degree last semester,I used to be smart and this final semester I fet like my IQ has dropped like 50 points,I left school for a year, but then I had to go back cause my parents foundout . I can’t get up in the morning, it’s like I’m in a coma or s.th,not to mention that I’m epileptic now,and have had VERY SEVERE seizures for the past 12 months,I’ve been prescribed tegretol which I don’t take cause I guess it doesn’t work well with tram,the good kind with good grades who had strict principles and ideas: can’t speak properly now cause she’s always trembling, doesn’t have any morals cause she thinks she’s so full of S*** and doesn’t deserve to live, not to mention the guys I date,you guys are all I have right now,so I should probably tell you that I was a virgin before this nightmare started eating me out,I haven’t had a relationship since I got hooked but guys did to me what I deserve,I’ve slept with 30 guys probably,3 months celibate though, and you guys probably know that tram effects your sex drive severely and I personally don’t feel ANYTHING,I just like having a company  some times,rest my head on some guys shoulder’s while he’s humping me, SEE WHAT THIS MONSTER DRUG DID TO ME????
I didn’t start taking pills cause I was a party animal wanting to have fun, I took it cause my mum was so sick and there was so much work to do and I was all alone,she has dementia,back then she was incontinent and aggressive and she had hallucinations plus she had 3 broken ribs and a broken arm,and it was all on me,I had to change her diapers all the time,be yelled at,cook,tie her down to the bed,and put up with my SICK CRAZY dad who is guilty for the loser I am today.
Sorry guys, It’s too long,I know, probably no one is gonna read it,but it’s a step right?yesterday nobody knew, now you do.
To those who have quitted, I admire you with every cell left in this sick body of mine.
To those who’re caught up in this mess just like I am,we’re not bad people guys,we just got lost,we’re good people right?


Avatar universal
by 20VTurboJettaGuy, May 18, 2010
junkie_jess,
WOW.  I feel for you on many levels.  All I can say is give it your all and you NEED to find some support in your battle with addiction.  I am married with 2 kids, have parrents that love me and alot of people who I concider friends, yet no one knows that I have a sevier addiction with tramadol.  I have lied to my wife, stolen from my parrents, let down my kids and have put on a show to the rest of my friends because of this addiction.  I have used (and abused) Tramadol for 5 years.  I have quit before, 2 times actualy.  But both times I have talked myself into doing tramadol again.  Now it is day 5 clean for the 3rd time.  Is it easy? NO!  Is it fun? NO!  Will it be worth it? YES!!!!  I know that my situation is far diffrent from yours and on many levels you could be concidered worse off then alot of us, but you need to turn that fear into anger.  When you get scared about changing your life and quiting tramadol, take that fear and turn it into anger.  This is WAR!  If you get scared on the battle feild and begin to get lost in fear, you will DIE.  If you get scared on the battle feild and then get MAD, you will have a fighting chance.  Do not let this little white pill have all the power, take some of the power back.  tell it to F-off and say "NO, I QUIT."  There has to be some help or some support somewhere for you.  I bet that if you took some of the effort you put into gettig the pills and tryed to locate someone or something to aid you in this war you are fighting with-in then you would be more successful.  You have a long and hard road ahead, but at the end of that road is freedom and victory.  Keep your eye on the prize and do not loose sight of the true battle and that you have the oppertunity to win.  In the end it is up to you.  Sometimes the "easy way out" is not the easy way at all.  Overall, it will be easyer for you to quit and live the rest of your life clan and sober, then it will be to continue to stress about this and live in regret.  You can do it.  I may be thousands of miles away from you, but I believe that you can do it.  I believe in you.  You took a big step by posting here in the first place so my hats off to you for that.  Good luck and I hope you get a chance to read this response to your post.  I truely wish you the best and remember, "THIS IS WAR!  IF YOU LOOSE THE WAR, YOU ARE EITHER A PRISONER, OR DEAD SO FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION.  GET MAD, TRY NOT TO FEAR THE UNKNOWN AND BE HONIST WITH YOURSELF.  YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!!"

-B.R.V.    

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by UhohHereitComes, Jun 21, 2010
Day one after up to 32 50 mg per day (1600). After all I've read, this is going to suck! Brain zaps and sweating already, it's been about 16 hours now.

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by SaraLee472, Jun 27, 2010
wow...32 a day is alot....i was up to 26 (when i had em) for a bit so I know....it IS gonna suck. BAD. In fact, I understand that it's actually physically unsafe to  stop cold turkey from that many (especially if it was for a long period of time)

I understand this because I was recently admitted to the hospital in withdrawal when my  blood pressure got to dangerously high and my pulse and heart rate did the same.... here's the sad part......when the ambulance took me away to the hospital, they loaded me up with IV pain medicine (Dilaudid) and my blood pressure (obviously) went right back to normal and I felt just fine.  When I explained to them that I had stopped taking Tramadol, they all nodded in understanding and the hospital staff decided that the best treatment for me would be.......
Take more tramadol!!!?!?!?!?
WTF is wrong with these people?

Monitored me overnight, giving me copious amounts of IV narcotics along with Trams and sent me home with the advice to not stop taking the Tramadol again.



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by SaraLee472, Jun 27, 2010
the reason for that long winded story is to tell you maybe you should try to taper... even down to a lesser amount....

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by helplessmom1964, Jul 05, 2010
My 29 year old son is going through withdrawals right now..I am feel so helpless..I don't know what to do..He has been on Tramadol for 2 years. In the beginning a Dr prescribed. Then, he started getting them over the internet, and taking 15-20 a day. He finally decided last week he finished, his life has been in a downward spiral since the first pill. He can no longer do any of the things he used too. Motocross was his life. He hasn't been on the bike in a very long time. He went to the Dr and he sent him to a substance abuse program. The Dr, there decided to put him on Methadone. The first dose made him sick, break out in a rash and itch all over. The next morning he was still sick and nauseas. He still went ahead and took the liquid methadone at the clinic. 10 minutes lated he vomited it up. Has been deathly ill ever since. I called the clinic and they said he's in withdrawals and needs bigger dose of methadone. My son refuses to go.. He thinks its the methadone thats making him vomit. I gave him promithazine that I had, that helped with nausea and is a sedative that helped him sleep. I just need to know what to do..When will he get any relief? Is it the methadone? Should I encourage him to go back to methadone?I haven't read alot on severe vomiting.. And his head is in so much pain, he can't even lift it off the pillow.. He's going into the fourth day..


Avatar universal
by Septooth, Aug 20, 2010
I have been clean from Suboxone since July 9th 2010. When quit Subs my doctor started prescribing me Tramadol 50mg tabs for my pain (had back surgery). The Tramadol seemed to help with my pain and made the WD symptoms from coming off of Suboxone a little more tolerable. I have been taking Tramadol for about 6 weeks now and decided that I was done with any type of prescription medication as of 2 days ago. After only being on Tramadol for 6 weeks and off of it for 3 days, I am now going through withdrawls again. I was taking 50mg's of Tramadol 4 times a day for about 5 weeks and 50mg's of Tramadol 2 - 3 times a day for the last week, the 6th week. My symptoms are...Feeling lethargic, Runny nose, Sneezing, Diarrhea, Sweating when I sleep and Sleeplessness. I have been clean from Subs for 6 weeks now and never took more than 200mg of Tramadol for the 6 weeks I was on it. How long will these symptoms last for? Any info would really be appreciated.

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by nin77ca, Feb 08, 2013
Crushed elbow and 2 surgeries later I am tired of Medician. I stop ultrum after 2 half years.In did continue with the welbrutin XL 150.'Hope I will be able to get out of the fog.While taking ultrum tramadol with welbrutin XL 150 I slept a lot not even able to drive. So I have been off ultrum tramadol for 2 weeks.no withdrawl. Just have to keep trying different meds to help pain but not so strong it knocks me out.

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