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Tramadol & Ultram Recovery Room Part 28

Feb 15, 2010 - 218 comments
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tramadol

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ultram

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Recovery

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withdrawal

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reaction

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terror

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Healing



Hi Tramadol Warriors and all New Friends,

Please make yourself at home.

Part 28 ... wow.

Hang on tight!

Love and Healing,
Emily

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Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 15, 2010
Hello CDash..welcome and thank you for sharing your story...sounds like you have a very great support in your girlfriend..you are very fortunate...I wish you nothing but success and healing in this journey.  as i've noted before..i have not been out here a long time..and im doing a taper myself..but i can attest to the fact that this place is amazing for the support, encouragement and feedback...no judgement... which will help you along the way.  So stay with us..and keep us posted...many have been out here for a long time and have some great wisdom to share about getting off the Trams..i've been amazed at the hope that I've developed just since reading the posts here.  Congratulations on what you've accomplished so far... i've not come clean with anyone but one friend. I do not have a partner to help me in this..so having this community has been a life saver..
Good luck and keep writing...we're all here to help each other.
Pat

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by forget_me_not, Feb 15, 2010
Pat, we're alike in that I don't have a significant other to share this experience with, either.  I did talk to my best friend about it and she was wonderfully helpful and understanding.  I think it's important to be up front with at least one person if at all possible, simply because our perceptions get so distorted when we are in withdrawal, and having someone to offset the WD hysteria with an occasional dose of actual reality can be good.  It was good for me.  When my mind got into the black mud, she would balance my insanity with practical "counseling", reminding me that it was temporary, telling me how great I was doing (even while I was thrashing around on the floor), and encouraging me to keep on.  I am thankful she was there.  Her compassion helped me understand how much it helps to...just not be alone.

CDash, welcome to this great place of healing.  We are so glad you are here.  Be encouraged...we all understand what you are going through, and we will support you 1000% as you break free from this poison.  Read back through Emily's old posts when you can.  There is a ton of very useful information in there, and also volumes of comments detailing the experiences of many who have traveled the path you are on.  It isn't easy.  But you can do it.  Focus on your freedom and don't blink.  Everything you experience during WD is temporary.  You will feel better soon.

lots of love, warriors.
~fmn

Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 16, 2010
Desgran pat-I am so glad your grandson is doing better. I have been thinking of you. I agree with fmn. Can you tell someone? A friend or family member exactly what is going on with your Tramadol taper and w/d? I have been hiding this dark secret since day 1, but I did start seeing an MD this time around and talking with someone(in person) each week has helped me immensly. I could not have done this without help. Being accountable to someone. Plus, with your travelling for work, things can get harder. You ALWAYS have us on here to talk to, but hopefully you have another person, up close, to confide in. I personally am here for you anytime.  Send me a message and I will respond very quickly.
FMN-how are you doing?  Your words are so important, so thoughtful and sooo appreciated by all of us. Thank you so much.
4 Leef-love you!! You are my angel in this fight, I swear.
Pharma-great advice on that cough med or was it Nyquil? for RLS and sleep! Gosh, I wish I had your guidance when I was in that horrible phase of my past w/d's. That is a great tip.  How are you doing? Thinking of you.
Chess and everyone else out there-I read every word on here. Even if I don't write everyday, respond to every person, you are ALL in my thoughts. I truly care about everyone who has arrived here.
Emily-how are you? You were here for me when I arrived last March and I will be forever grateful to you. Always.

Bode
p.s. Go Bode(Miller)! where my nickname came from:-)

Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 16, 2010
I meant to say also,
Sandia-congrats on 16 days!! Thats amazing.  What is ADD syndrome?  Does that mean you're past the w/d from the hidden antidepressant? I am happy for you, whatever it means!
Dash-welcome. You came to the right place.  
JC-missed you! How have you been. Please keep us posted.  
Roo-You said something that I found very interesting. 'Boring' may just be SERENITY...

Today I am 36 days off Trams. And down to a teeny, tiny crumb of suboxone once a day. I am feeling some nausea and tiredness as a result of going down on the sub, but not bad and NOTHING near what w/d of T's is like. I dont have any RLS or sweats or creepy crawly feelings and I am sleeping well-thank God!  I couldn't go through that again. NEVER AGAIN.  Luckily my MD prescribed an anti-nausea med if needed since I told her I will going skiing and am afraid I will feel sick while away from home.  Can't imagine flying down a mountain, feeling nauseaus!  Man, I can't wait for this all to be done. I'm about a week away from being done with my cushion, crutch. I am so glad I did it this way, this time around, but am looking forward to being medication free. FREE. FREEDOM, something I will relish in. Be grateful for. I can't wait.  And like Roo and FMN have talked about, maybe boring isn't really 'boring' after all.

Keep on fighting everyone.

Bode

Avatar universal
by JG525, Feb 16, 2010
Going to try and recall what I deleted by accident yesterday.

Pat- I'm glad your grandchild is okay.  You can get through work without the extra tram.  That is the addiction telling you that you need it.  I know it's hard, but once you stop it will be a relief.  I'm not suggesting to stop fully before your trip, but don't let the addiction tell you that you need it.

Roo- I think, if tram acts like Effexor (SNRI), then it probably carries some of the libido side effects.  Or it could be the opiate.  I was on Effexor  and tram and ADs are awful for libido.  I'm hoping once I'm off the prozac it will return.  I don't think I need anti-depressants, but we'll see.  I worry that I've altered my brain chemistry with different drugs.

4leef- I had a nice relaxing Valentine's with my husband.  I've recommited to Weight Watchers, so trying not to eat a ton!  How are you?

Jenny

Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 16, 2010
Bodegirl - yes, I was refering to Attention Deficit.  Last week was the WORST for me - the physical withdrawals had gone away but the effects on my brain and the feeling of exhaustion were debilitating!  I  was unable to focus and would start and stop many projects. It seemed everything was above my skill set - even typing  :)

This week  I am able to think more clearly and am able to knock projects out in the appropriate amount of time.  I'm not in slow motion.

Pat -  Jenny is right - the addiction is telling you that you can't get through the week of travel unless you take more Trams and get off of your taper regimen.  Think about it - is that little white pill really helping you navigate your way in your career?  Is it really responsible for making the business/personal decisions?  NO - it's not.  You are the person you are today because you are intelligent -  not because you have been popping pills. I have learned that over these past few weeks as I have asked myself over and over again - what was it again that I thought I was gaining from taking tramadol.  Why did I think I needed to reach inside the bottole for a couple of T's before an important meeting. It was a false sense of security nothing more, nothing less. A habit.  I have been kicking *** at work and at home for the past 15 days (even though I thought I was going to die for 7 of those days) and I realized that I can do this without medicating myself and I am so proud of ME - not me and Tramadol.  You can travel  without adjusting your taper - you will be so proud of yourself afterwards.

Susan

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 16, 2010
Fmn. thanks for your input...you are right..my best friends live in other states and i've come clean with one of them..but it's not the same as being in person..i do have couple of close friends in town..but i dont know if i can get the kind of support and understanding that you are getting..my family...no..i can't share with them now..they all have so much on their plates..last thing they need is the knowledge that their mother is an addict and now..besides worrying about their kids..they have to worry about me too.  i will tell them..but when i get further down the road with my recovery...but i appreciate what you are saying and i am going to try and find someone to share in person and ask for the help i need.  
Bode.. CONGRATULATIONS on your 36 days...that is awesome! you are so sweeet..thank you so much for being there...you have no idea how much this means to me. now i've got this vision of you flying down a mountain...you go girl!!!
Jenny..thank you..yes..i will continue the taper..and i too am noticing that im eating more and that is scary since i had the gastric bypass..it may also be a case of not exercising enough..i know this is essential piece  and i need to get my butt in motion.
Sandia...congratulations on your 16 days  so awesome!!  
Love u guys all so much ...what would i do without you...can't go there.
Pat

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 16, 2010
Susan..yes..the ADD...i've had it with the Trams for a while now...as they've turned on me....so the thought that this will get worse as i go thru withdrawal is pretty scary..can't think straight and that is why going on this trip is so scary to me..but i know that taking more trams is not going to make me better...just make me more agitated and anxious..at this point..and i know i don't need this when im in a strange place trying to find my way around and trying to appear like the confident salesperson (when i feel like piece of poop and why am i bothering these people anyways)  Thanks for understanding and for the encouragement...glad i will have my computer with me as i travel so i can check in...
Pat

Avatar universal
by JG525, Feb 16, 2010
Pat- I'm no good at it, but I think the exercise will help you feel better.  I've been trying to walk lately.  I just don't like to take the time even though I know it's good for me.  Jenny

Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 16, 2010
Pat - no worries, the ADD is temporary.  It could have simply been my lack of sleep that was creating my inability to focus.

The main thing is that I made it through and so will you.  The fear of the unknown with W/D's is crippling and probably keeps a lot of folks from quitting .  I was scared to death of what was going to happen next.  I think that the WD experience is a MUST to keep a relapse at bay - there is no way in hell I will take another Tramadol!

Keep that computer close on your travels and POST!!!  We are all here for you.

susan

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 16, 2010
Thanks Guys!!  Love u so much...taking you with me in spirit as I travel...I can do this!!!

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by CleaningUp, Feb 16, 2010
How is everyone doing?? I haven't been on here in a while, but I do have to say, I'm doing pretty well with the circumstances. It has been 78 days since I decided to quit tramadol. There was one day in the beginning of January when I took 2 50mg trams because I found out my fiance had cancer, but I decided that wasn't the road I wanted to take, and that has been it! I just want to ask people who have been off for a while about confusion. I have some days where I feel SO confused, about everything, just weird. I just want to know if that is a normal part of the withdrawl still... and it's not just me! Thanks guys! Hope everyone is doing well... keep your heads up!

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by ComingClean, Feb 16, 2010
Hello All, I guess it's been a while. I was going on 14 days clean and I got my refilled today and used again. So back to the same cycle. I just wasn't strong enough. I'm so sorry to all that I let down. I hope everyone is doing ok in their recovery. Until next time.

1059641 tn?1277525976
by forget_me_not, Feb 16, 2010
CleaningUp... it's so good to hear from you!  Glad you have stayed the course even through hard times.  As for the confusion... all I can say is WELCOME to the club!  I'm about 24 weeks off tramadol and still have days riddled with confusion, memory issues (especially short-term and working memory), and word finding problems.  I've found, though, that stress exacerbates all of those.  So I am working on managing stress and anxiety in my daily life, and that helps.  Also, I am B12 deficient so that is likely also related to all of the cognitive problems.  I supplement with monthly injections and daily sublinguals.  Have you tried B12?

Madtram recommended a fabulous website, www.lumosity.com , to help rebuild the brain connections that may have been severed during those years of tramadol use.  I have found it very useful.  And I read lots and lots.  These are my weapons in the fight to retrain my brain.

Most of all, time.  Just time.  It gets better the further out you get.

ComingClean, dear, no shame, no guilt.  You weren't ready.  Rest assured, when you are, we will be here to support you through every second of it.  Few of us made it on the first attempt.  You will dump the trams when you are ready.  We love and support you, and hope you'll stay with us here.

Pat, just hang tough, sister!  It's true, the tramadol didn't make you smart and competent.  YOU are smart and competent, and you'll be even more so as your confidence grows.  We are with you every step of the way.

Lots of love to all this night,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 17, 2010
Hello Warriors!
Bode- I can visualize your free spirit flying down the mountain. I hope your trip is everything you want it to be. You have done so wonderfully on the suboxone. The experience you share about this avenue of w/d is so valuable for this post.
cleaning up- I used for 5 days after 32 clean, then stopped again...I admire your ability to see the futility in restarting after one use of Tram.....good going!
comingclean- It is all good, my friend--- fmn's sentiments are mine, exactly...we are here for you....we know how much you desire getting clean...and how compelling Tram is...part of getting ready to let go of them for good  is often getting on the 'merrigoround' again..... just making sure there is not a way to have it work out differently.....
Pat---yes-- ugh! the brain fog!! the loneliness! You are doing great on your taper, Hon...I am so happy for your family that the young one got through his illness...those are tough times dealing in taper....you are doing GREAT!! I agree with other in recommending disclosure to others....maybe just give some thought toward who you could trust...It helped me immensely to confide in a few close people....I agree not the kids....I got a lot out of telling...the reaction I got was really a non reaction and just assistance and support!!! I was in judgement of myself and projecting that on to others----and I was mistaken about this
Susan-  congrats on 17 days! The thinking does get clearer...I noticed I was overdoing it on the stimulants...just to TRY to stay sharp.....tylenol migraine, loads of caffeine, nicorette gum.....(my poor adrenals)  which left me with a restless irritability and contributes to the waves of anxiety I still get throughout the day....but I NEED to be sharp to do my job and this process of getting through the later part of w/d (from the AD component of the Tram) is not linear....some days are so much better than others...evaluating it too much is not beneficial for me...you are doing great!
nice to meet cleaningup
ok all
off to work
Be Well and Stay Strong!!!!

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 17, 2010
Comingclean, it's always 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Persist in your efforts and you will progress and succeed. Took .75 tab this morning (37.5 mg, split my tab in half and took the big half--temptation, entry, possession, and BAM, it's got you). Don't feel guilty or ashamed, just keep moving ahead. Even if you slip, it doesn't mean you're back to square one--unless you tell yourself it does. After reading the posts here, it makes me wonder if heavy tramadol use for an extended period makes long-lasting changes in the neuron pathways that takes time to unravel once you quit. Because after a week or two, the drug itself presumably completely clears your system.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 17, 2010
Bode, was reading your posts, and thinking you might find DHEA particularly helpful. Best wishes to everyone here, don't give up the ship!

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by BabyRedAngel, Feb 17, 2010
its my 5th day clean of trams today, not sure how the hell i am feeling at all....my head is pounding my heart is racing the bathroom is my best friend and i feel so alone...but i just want to say thank you for this site.....it helps when i am down knowing im not alone with this and im not going crazy.....thanks guys ....x

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 17, 2010
Day 5, BabyRed? You're almost there--the consensus seeming to be that after day 7 it only gets better.

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 17, 2010
Cleaning Up...Welcome...confusion is my middle name..lol.  and Im not yet off the trams but tapering..seems that the longer i've been on the trams...the more confused im getting..brain is definitely not working well...memory loss, etc. you've heard it all here..but now that Im tapering..the only thing that saves me ..well a few things...this forum..is key for me and helped me make decision to finally get clean ..and, psychologically, the fact that i am doing something good for myself by weaning off this crap makes me feel somehow better...an act of self-love, self-care..even amidst the confusion and the angst of withdrawal..i know im headed in a good direction. as the others all say..it gets better...and i've truly come to trust my friends out here..They really have your back!!  
Coming Clean..it's good that you can come out here with your honest share...lot of courage..hang in there..one day..one hour at a time..stay close to everyone out here..you will be ok...
Baby Red -  YOU ARE NOT ALONE.. know that in your heart and soul..everyone out here is so invested in helping, supporting, encouraging..just keep writing..keep out here..say whatever you need to. we are all in this together.
Fmn & 4 Leef..dear ones, thanks for your encouraging words. yesterday i came clean with my doc..he immediately started to beat himself up for "not putting my foot down" 6 months ago when he told me i was taking too much.. Then he took a more militant stance ..like just do it..i said..i cannot quit cold turkey..he undertood that..i proposed that we lower the refill (today)..to where im taking 3 times day (was 4-5)...so he gave me one month..3 x/day (90)..after a month he would like to take it down to 2x/day, etc.  he's keeping the xanax on board as i told him i wanted to get off the trams before i quit the xanax..he agreed.  he told me about a treatment house (i froze up a bit)..why do i feel like i can do this without rehab .. i believe i can (besides fact insurance wont pay for)..he really pressed me about therapy (he's right)..and he wants to see me back on 3/11..to see how im doing..this was hard..he blames himself..i know you all would probably say..he's right to do that..but he said..you've been thru so much in past 2-3 years ... and when he would bring up cutting down on taking so much..i would have another crisis in my life..and he kind of bowed to my wishes.. anyways..i used the word "addiction" with my doc..never ever thought i would see this day..im scared.. because now with him in the know..there will be an end to the scripts. i have my work cut out for me..no more cruising with the trams..just getting by from day to day..don't we all deserve more than "just getting by"???  
i know that i ramble guys..please forgive me..this is so huge for me..if you all were not out here..i dont think i would have known how to take these first steps...thank you from my heart...for those of you out there reading and not posting..it is no exaggeration on my part when i say that this place.these dear folks out here..everyone one of them.. is/are  saving my life.
Please keep coming here ..there is hope.
Gratefully...
Pat


Avatar universal
by Roo82, Feb 17, 2010
Hello, everyone! Day 5 off tram, doing well... I think that it's been a miracle that I found you all here as early as I did. I've been so lucky to not really experience the worst of it. Just slight restlessness and body temp stuff. I have Flexoril that I got for my foot after a recent car accident and I'm keeping it close in case I can't sleep... but so far, I've only had to take that one night. I think between Day 1 and 2.

ComingClean - It takes what it takes to get us to a place where there's nothing left to do but quit. Even if you're not there yet, please keep coming back. Be honest, share what's going on at any given time, etc. We are here to listen and support you -- we love you.

BabyRed - Hang in there. There are a lot of things out there that you can take to help take the edge off of the W/D. These people can help you with what you can get at GNC or over the counter to help with sleep, well-being, restless legs, etc. You can do this!!!

Happy Humpday, Warriors.
MarissaRoo

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 17, 2010
Correction, for the DHEA, I meant Roo, not bode. Glad to see you hanging in there Roo.

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by BabyRedAngel, Feb 17, 2010
thanks for the support guys i really appreciate it big time! my script was due yesterday im too scared to go out thankfully as i cant get my hands on the damn things....sleep seems not existent at the moment i have been drawing picture after picture trying to keep my mind off things, i guess when i can draw properly again i will be nearly free from these painfull shakes....
one thing i do feel is a ball of pure hate for myself for believing these pills made me feel invincible....sorry keep getting mad at  things today......thank you so so much ..

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 17, 2010
Baby Red..please..do not be hard on you...realize that by coming out here and talking about it and trying to get off the poison..you must..somewhere down inside..really love and care for yourself....but i do know the self loathing..boy do i ever..if anyone ever treated me as bad as I treat me..i'd have them thrown in jail!!!
Hang in there...hang on...
lots of love & hugs...


Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 17, 2010
"...if anyone ever treated me as bad as I treat me..i'd have them thrown in jail!!!"

You just expressed an immensely important truth, Pat, and what keeps us in the clutches of many unsavory things.


Avatar universal
by JG525, Feb 17, 2010
Pat- I would just like to encourage you to taper a little faster.  I don't think there is any physical reason to take a month for each drop.  Unless you have something going on that is different.  I'm not sure it's helpful to you either.  My concern would be that you'll make yourself nuts thinking about quitting for three months.  It's just an idea, but I tapered down over a week or two and that was all I could take.  It did seem to help, but I think a couple weeks for each drop would help the most.  I don't know, for me, thinking about quitting was a hell of a lot harder than actually doing it.  Just my thoughts...good for you for talking to your doctor!!

Jenny

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 17, 2010
isnt that the truth Chess?   so off to therapy i go..again.. to learn to find the pat that others seem to see and i dont..and appreciate and care for her..and honor her...wow..what a concept!
Jenny..I was kind of basing my taper on what I've seen others describing out here.. to be honest ..thinking about tapering down to nothing in 3 months scares the crap out of me..thinking about doing it sooner also scares the crap out of me..YES..the thinking could do me in!  I've been on Tramadol for over 4 years (average 250-300mg day) ...does that matter in the big picture?  is it harder to get off the longer you've been on?  i guess everyone is different so it's hard to know for sure..i appreciate your input..thanks for your support..i'll keep listening...


Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 17, 2010
Pat - I am in agreement with Jenny - I did a very quick taper over a two week period and I am so glad that I did this and didn't prolong  the worry about the dosages and refills or worry about what kind of w/d symptom would happen next.  The chills, the sweats etc.... Just get it over with.  :)

My kiddo was put on lexapro as an attempt to help her with migraines. Lexapro didn't help her and I was left with the bottle of pills in the med cabinet.   When I began the taper, I recalled a post back in january about Lexapro helping while coming off of trams.  I took 5mgs a day and it helped me immensely.  I had tried to go CT before but the tingling in my face and the weird brain zaps were unbearable.  Taking the lexapro kept me from having any brain zaps at all!!!

Maybe you could discuss an AD with your taper with the Doc?  I don't know if you are on any AD's right now or not.

Remember - those pills are not your reinforcements - we are!!!   God is!!

This helped me - hopefully it will help others:

Keep looking up, and refuse to allow discouragement to keep you from breakthrough. There are things over which you have no control, things that are beyond your level of responsibility and authority. These are the circumstances that you need to release to Me, says the Lord. That means you must let go completely. Otherwise, your thoughts and emotions concerning these issues only hinder the work of My Spirit. Answers and breakthrough will come as You seek Me, and I will give you peace when you trust Me.

Isaiah 26:3 You will keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on You, because he trusts in You.


Susan


Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 17, 2010
Jenny & Susan:  How long had you both been on the Trams and what dosage - ?  i do appreciate what you are saying..i have to travel for work on sunday..and then end of march thru end of april several trips..i cannot be a mess while traveling..so i guess if i knew it would be possible to get thru the worst of withdrawal during march before i travel again..i could attempt it.. scared...zombie state scares me to death.  so what Pat..get over it..u are not unique!!  this is my head going back and forth.."you can do it,,,,,no you can't"   God help me.

Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 17, 2010
I took 8-12 pills a day for 3 years.  This is what I can't understand with me - I never got a warm high feeling, I never felt like superwoman but for some reason that I have yet to "get" I kept digging into the bottle thinking that I was going to feel something spectacular only to be disappointed each time.  I was left with a terrible thirst all day and a fast heart rate.

I completely get your fear about what is going to happen to you after you quit. I was scared to death as well and I ran out of pills before I could refill so I had no choice. The taper helped me with bathroom issues (this was very minor for me) and the lexapro helped with the weird electric shock like feelings that I have experienced before.  If you can get something to help you sleep at night, you can do this.  I made it to work every day - I wasn't a zombie, but I didn't feel 100% either.  I prioritized my day and only took care of the "hot" items and told a lot of people that I had a virus and to bear with me. This allowed me to come in later and leave early. I remember that I had to get up and walk around the office/building because of the back pain that so many people have discussed on prior journals.  

You can do this girl!!  If you can give birth to children and raise them up through their teenage years and become a grandmother - then 5 days of feeling off is a walk in the park!!

You are a lot stronger than you realize.



Avatar universal
by JG525, Feb 17, 2010
Hi Pat- I was on them for 3.5 years and took between 200mg and 500mg a day.  It varied on when I would run out.  I always took at least 200mg.  I stopped at 150mg, after one day of 100mg, and I was really okay in a few days.  Klonopin, which I was on already, helped me sleep (I think your xanax would help in the same way) and I was still on Effexor then, so I think that picked up a little of the slack.  I do think anti-depressants can help at the end.  I don't recommend Effexor as that was harder for me to come off of than the trams.  I'm on Prozac for about another week and then nothing.  Prozac or even Lexapro would be easier to stop and would help with the depression and maybe some other side effects.  I felt well enough in a few days and fine after a week.  There are people here on really high doses that have stopped and are okay in 10 days, although I wouldn't recommend that.

Clonidine really helped too (BP med).

There are some horror stories, but honestly, I found tapering to be worse than stopping because it was painful mentally and physically and there was no end in sight.  At least when you stop, you can get it out of your system.  I wouldn't plan to do it on a work trip either.  If you could do it in between, I think you'd be fine.  Even if you wait until the end of April that is less than three months I think.

Obviously, if you decide you're ready, give your doctor a call first.  I'm not trying to make you feel bad for not stopping sooner and goodness knows I put it off for a long time before I even tried stopping.  I get being scared and addicted.  I'm glad you're going to therapy.  I see my therapist this Friday and I know it helps me!  That was another person I told because it's confidential. The more people you tell, the easier it is to stop.

Just remember, you're not likely to ever feel good from taking them again.  You'll always think about stopping.  So, it takes away the pleasure.  I think the sooner we can be free, the sooner we can build our lives back up.

Hang in there Pat!

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 17, 2010
Thanks my friends..so much for taking time to share your stories...so comforting to know you are there..and really "get it"..i have concern for Serotonin syndrome..i am not presently on an antidepressant..but because trams have properties of ad..concern that adding an ad while going off could produce serotonin syndrome but jenny it sounds like you've never had that problem?  susan if i believed that 5 days of feeling off would be all that i would experience..i would probably stop today..period..but somehow..i've not gotten that impression from all that i've read out here..i could be taking everyone's experience and projecting that onto myself...and perhaps making this a lot worse in my head that it really is..but, i can tell you that just the little bit of tapering i've done..i have experienced some wierd stuff..the confusion, hot and cold, depression (bigtime)  psychic pain if that makes any sense.. okay it occurs to me that i might be going on too much about this..i just need to move on.which i am doing..i feel the need to apologize..it feels self-indulgent to be going on and on..and i know i am not unique..not in any way shape or form.. so sorry...but so grateful for the ears you provide.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 17, 2010
"I took 8-12 pills a day for 3 years.  This is what I can't understand with me - I never got a warm high feeling, I never felt like superwoman but for some reason that I have yet to "get" I kept digging into the bottle thinking that I was going to feel something spectacular only to be disappointed each time.  I was left with a terrible thirst all day and a fast heart rate."

Likely you are a 'poor metabolizer' of tramadol, sandia. According to pharma tramadol is a 'pro-drug,' and needs to be changed in the liver before you can feel the so-called euphoria. I am likely an 'extensive metabolizer, on the other hand, and feel euphoria (like codeine) on half a 50mg tab or less, and cannot take much more than one tab/day before I feel negative side effects. Physically speaking, does that make it more or less addicting for me?

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 17, 2010
Chess..I think people who are fast metabolizers require less drug to get desired effect may not be as prone to addiction,but still have a possibility of addiction because addiction is mental as well as physical.They probably do not build up a tolerance as quickly and can get by with less drug,but still be addicted to the feeling it gives them.
Nice to see everyone posting and I have to go to work now.
Good healing everyone

Avatar universal
by JG525, Feb 17, 2010
Pat- When my doctor put me on tramadol they mentioned seretonin syndrome because they knew I was on Pristiq at the time.  They were not concerned at all though.  She said they had loads of people on both.  If you think about it, many people who have fibromyalgia or CFS are on tramadol and anti-depressants.  I think seretonin syndrome is fairly unusual and probably less likely than the seizures people have from taking tramadol.  If you started an AD right when you went off, I don't think you'd be likely at all to get seretonin syndrome.  I just wouldn't mix ADs with natural stuff like St John's Wort or 5-htp.

All of the symptoms you mention were worse for me when I was tapering.  I figured they'd get worse when I stopped, but that only lasted for a couple of days.  Everyone is different, but I wouldn't assume that you'll be miserable for weeks.  You have to remember that people that didn't have bad experiences going off tramadol aren't going to be here posting usually.  It's not the norm that people are miserable for months like some here.  The depression can be hard, but otherwise, it should pass pretty quickly.

I would just make sure you talk to your doctor and get armed with your xanax and maybe an AD and clonidine.

Jenny

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 17, 2010
Thank you Jenny...again I appreciate the feedback...I hope you are doing good today..
Hugs.


Avatar universal
by JG525, Feb 17, 2010
Sure Pat! That's one reason I stick around.  I feel like message boards become mostly horror stories because people that have it relatively "easy" don't stay to tell their story.  I don't mean this board, but a lot of boards.  

I'm not saying that the addiction is easy for me, but with the help of other drugs, legal drugs,  the withdrawal was okay.  Immodium is a big help too.  It helped me to work with a psychiatrist who specializes in addiction as well as my therapist.  Since he's an addictions specialist, he's happy to take me OFF different drugs unlike some psychiatrists that just keep medicating things away.

Anyway, I'm doing great right now! Still on the prozac though, which is a libido killer, but all of these things are for me.  Ugh, it seems like I have to feel everything mentally to get that back.  Also, started my klonopin taper at night.  We'll see how it goes.

Jenny

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by Wummick, Feb 18, 2010
Okay-hope starting to kick in. I decided to divulge my Tram habit to my Doctor (she had no idea I'd been using 10 years!) my wife, my band mates (they always thought I was the straight one cuz I didn't drink on the gig!) just about everyone except my work... I have tapered over 16 days from 5 pills to 1/2 per day (250 mg to 25 mg). Everyone has been so cool, thank God.

My doctor sent me to a withdrawal clinic and they've put me on Prozac. I wasn't too keen about replacement therapy but this place has a good reputation so I'm trying it. It's supposed to take 2 weeks to be effective but after a few days the depression did, in fact lessen quite a bit. I'm still getting some physical symptoms, (insomnia, leg pains, stomach pains) and the doctor warned that mood swings were likely for months-especially since I'd been on it so long. But today was tolerable. A week ago I felt about as bad as I've ever felt in my life-especially the depression-which I'm not used to.

What's been most amazing is how little the doctor was beating me up-so to speak. He said based on my long history of panic attacks and anxiety disorder it wasn't surprising at all that I had fallen into the Tramadol habit. He said it sounded like I was just self medicating, and probably lacked certain chemistry in the brain that the Tramadol was satisfying. I thought that was interesting, and a little reassuring because I've felt so much shame for so many years hiding this addiction.

I know I'm not out of the woods, and the doctor warned me that after I go completely off it (in about a week) the complete withdrawal and detoxification would take months to complete, not weeks. I'm doing this program through an HMO which is actually not that expensive, and I had no idea was available to me. I mention this only because maybe others in this forum may have services also that haven't been explored. I don't think I could be doing this on my own. I've gone through some pretty tough things in my life- but NOTHING has been as difficult as this. But I will conquer this habit. I am determined. Peace to you all.

Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 18, 2010
Good Morning Everyone!

Thank you so much for the info about how your body metabolizes meds Chess!  It makes sense to me now as to why I couldn't relate to a high or euphoria that others have experienced.  I'm still trying to figure out how come I thought I needed to take so many Trams a day though if I "felt" nothing.  Something deep down somewhere in my soul was liking em!  :)

I did visit my pain doctor last week and told her that I stopped taking Tramadol and that I didn't want another script for them (yay me).  Did I tell her that I was taking more than necessary and that I ran out early - sure didn't!!  Kept that to myself.  I did try to explain to her what I have read about Tramadol from these boards and she completely disagreed with everything that I said.  I just left it alone and told her to google the info like I did and to please read our posts.  She and I are working together to find a different mix of meds that will help with my TMJ and fibromyalgia that don't involve narcotics etc...

Gran Pat - I am in agreement with Jenny again.  I think that the worst of the worst stories are often times told and yes they are scary and hopefully a good deterent to anyone that researches Tramadol for pain relief. Just remember, you are tapering and not going CT and that makes a big difference in the WD experience.  You will know when the time is right for you to stop and when you are mentally armed and ready you will be able to take on the physical stuff.  I really think you need to do this with an AD.  I have stopped the T's both ways and using the AD was such a kindler, more gentler way to go for me on a taper system.
You are such a sweet, kind hearted person to all of us, be kind to  yourself as well and don't beat yourself up anymore regarding the time frame of  your transition into a life without tramadol.  Remember, we don't judge here.

Susan

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 18, 2010
Good Morning Everyone...Susan..thank you for your kinds words...you also are a sweet kind hearted person..as is everyone out here it seems..based on the support and encouragement im getting.  I am considering an AD right now in fact...to help this process...and..on the hunt for a therapist who has experience with addiction issues and depression..I know I need in person, one on one help with all of this. I interviewed someone on phone yesterday ..she combines therapy with hypnotherapy and i was intrigued by her outlook and when i told her i had issue with prescription pain meds..she just said ..welcome to the human race - and she felt positive and confident that she could help me.  YAY!!   When I told her about this community on line..she was really impressed..and felt like that I had "attracted" this...whatever that means.  I dont know what it means exactly..but I am so stinking glad I found you all...One thing about this forum..is the quality of the communication..the research,, the heart and soul, the thoughfulness..the honesty  and..as you said..the lack of  judgement...I am grateful ..beyond any words I can use..to be a part of this group.  Again..for those of you out there struggling...and reading..please stay...hang in ..you will hear your story ..to be sure...and you will get the support and encouragement you need to fight your battle...and if you feel so inclined..post..write..talk about what is going on..you will be heard...and welcomed..and these folks are so good..they will hang with you no matter what.
Gratefully,
Pat

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 18, 2010
By the way...Welcome Wummick..welcome to the community..sounds like you are in  midst of quite an agressive taper..I wish you success and please keep posting and coming back out here.. your doc sounds  compassionate..that's awesome..which should help make this journey a bit easier for you.
Pat

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by Micah191, Feb 18, 2010
Hi,  I was put on Ultram for shingles pain in early 2009.  I'm a recoverying alcoholic, so I was put on Ultram since it was a non-narcotic.  I was also put on Neurontin and Tegretol to stop the nerve pain.  I was soon hooked on the meds and took it religiously at least 3 times a day since around May of 2009.  I sobered up on Jan 14, 2010 and went cold-turkey off the meds.  I was sick as a dog for hte first couple weeks and then felt fine for a couple.  I'm now starting to feel naucious, I have diariah, I'm sleepless, and my mind won't stop racing - not to mention I'm emotional as hell.  Is it possible I'm still coming off of the Ultram?  An NA friend of mine says that my withdrawls may come in waves like this, but I've been clean for 34 days... is this normal?

Micah

Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 18, 2010
Micah - my physical withdrawals such as what you have listed above lasted for the first 5-7 days.  I am currently 18 days free and have not had a repeat of these symptoms.  I don't know if any of us knows what a normal withdrawal is from this crap.  Please wait patiently as there are folks that post later in the day that are full of wisdom and knowledge.

Congratulations by the way on being   34 days free of the meds that is fabulous!!

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 18, 2010
Congratulations Micah and welcome!!!   Susan is right...so much knowlege and wisdom out here..keep tuned...


Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 18, 2010
Micah-- I can relate to your symptoms and continue to have both depression and anxiety come in waves through out the course of the day. Still struggling with insomnia, but not every night. I was 32 days clean relapsed 5 days and now 2 weeks clean, again....one of the reasons I relapsed was because of the waves..........I went to a psychiatrist and got on some medication which is helping with both the depression and anxiety. I am also getting lots of help...I am in recovery, too....and I thought Ultra was 'safe' for people like me.....turns out...its poison

Pat---you are doing great! getting a lot of support and willing to set up a team of 'professionals' (meaning all your people)
to help on all fronts in this battle.....first we surrender then we 'give up' BEING IN CHARGE ....hire a team....and get to work
judgement and 'brain fog' are big issues....we probably shouldn't be operating heavy machinery, huh? But we are in one way or another...so checking my thinking with others has become somewhat of a habit.....it sure does beat my other habits, tho
Jen - so happy to hear the prozac is working out....hows the WW going? by the way happy valentines day
Bode----is skiing......whooping down the runs
Sandia- you sound great! love your posts Hon
welcome wummick!
to all Warriors-----wishing you a great journey out there today
you are Loved

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by forget_me_not, Feb 18, 2010
Micah,

Welcome!  First off, how much tramadol were you taking?  And for how long?  Did you suffer from depression prior to taking it?

As you might know already, tramadol is a very complex drug, with both opioid properties (for pain relief) and SNRI properties (thus the antidepressant effects).  It has a much longer half-life than other opiates, so the process of initial withdrawal takes around 7-10 days, as opposed to 3-4 days for other opiates.  However, the big issue for many of us is that, after that initial withdrawal period, there is a long, protracted period of random, somewhat chaotic symptoms that hang around for several weeks.  These symptoms include insomnia, depression, "brain fog", fatigue, etc., and while they are much less severe than during the first week or so, they can definitely be problematic.

I would say that, at 30-something days clean, you are experiencing some of those random post-acute withdrawal symptoms that are really the result of your brain and body learning to function again without tramadol.  Particularly for me, the depression was really tough.  It still is.  I am 24 weeks clean, and still battle the depression and insomnia at times.  Again, nothing like as bad as it was during acute withdrawal, but still, it's there.

As much as there is a "normal" where this drug is concerned, I'd say your symptoms fall within that range.  But only you can know if the symptoms are problematic enough that they are seriously interfering with your life.

For me, the things that helped most were vitamin B12 sublinguals, 5-htp (an amino acid that is a serotonin precursor, and helped me with sleep during the first weeks), and exercise.  As much as you can.  Physical activity helps to stimulate the brain's endorphins, which can really help counteract the depression (and helps with insomnia as well).

The racing thoughts...can you tell me more about those?  Have you experienced it before, or is this the first time?  Again, tramadol is quite a powerful and complex drug, and it has numerous effects on the body and mind.  I suspect more than we even know at this point.

I'm feeling your pain, because your healing path seems to closely resemble mine.  It's no fun at all, but if you stay the course and work with your body, it gets much easier.

Keep posting, and if there's anything at all we can do to help you, we will.

peace,
~fmn


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by Micah191, Feb 18, 2010
Thanks so much for the responses. I'm glad to see this is an active thread.  I'm feeling a bit crazy because I'm coming off of "non-narcodics" and yet I feel like I did after I was on Hydrocodone.

...In regards to my racing thoughts, I feel beside-myself.  Like no matter what I do (and I’m working a pretty good program right now with meetings and such) I can't seem to quiet my nerves for any length in time.  I feel restless…urges to get more Ultram to make the jittery feeling go away.  I’m constantly worried about this and that and the other thing and my mind jumps from thing to thing mid thought.  I can’t seem to concentrate for any length of time.  I’m naturally a pretty active person, but don’t have difficulty chilling out – and right now it’s impossible to feel calm at any point in the day.

However, as I stated, I was also on Tegretol and Neurontin, so maybe their withdrawls are affecting my Ultram withdrawls.  I’m not sure.  I just want this to stop and not feel so nuts all day long.  One night this week I watched every hour go by because I couldn’t get my mind to stop racing.

Micah

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by CleaningUp, Feb 18, 2010
thanks everyone for the good words on confusion. Makes me feel better that it's not just me! Some days I feel like I'm going crazy, but I just keeping pushing on and knowing that it will get better. A big part of all of this for me is mental, like coming back into knowing myself, and really loving myself. It's been really difficult, because my fiance is going through chemo right now... but we will make it, I'm sure of that.
Thanks again everyone.

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by forget_me_not, Feb 18, 2010
Micah...oh, yes, the restlessness and anxiety are right in line with what many people experience in the weeks after stopping tramadol.  Our resident pharmacist, Pharma, might be able to address the possible influences of the gabapentin and tegretol.  But even in the absence of their influence, tramadol withdrawal can and does cause significant anxiety and depression for the first several weeks.  

As our beloved Emily stated so well in her early journals, it's definitely not a linear process of healing.  It's up and down, three steps forward and two steps back.  But you are still moving forward.

I have read many reports of people who have experienced withdrawal from both hydrocodone and tramadol, and many of them say that tramadol is much, much harder to come off.  While each person's experience is different, I tend to believe those reports, again because of tramadol's long half-life, and most of all, because of the nasty little antidepressant that is tagged on to the drug but never talked about when it's prescribed.  SNRI discontinuation can be very agonizing, and that's the aspect of tramadol withdrawal that seems the hardest for many of us.  The mental "anguish", anxiety, severely disturbed thinking, insomnia, and fatigue that characterize SNRI discontinuation are present with tramadol, in addition to the standard opiate withdrawals (chills, sweats, restless legs, etc.).  It's tough.  But at 34 days into it, you can definitely expect to see things improving soon.  For me, it was around that time that I started to have days strung together with no symptoms at all.  And sleep got better.

Just hang in there.  Several folks here have taken antidepressant medicines to help during the transition off tramadol.  That's a personal call that each person has to make based on the severity of their symptoms.  My depression was persistent and really disabling, so I am taking Wellbutrin in the hope that it will help smooth things out a bit.

It's a slow process, but you're doing it the right way.  Just hang in there.  It will get better very soon.

~fmn

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 18, 2010
My heart is with you CleaningUp....Stay strong..and stay with us out here...I guess the best gift you can give your fiance is getting yourself clean so that you can be really PRESENT  as you take this healing journey together...Wishing you much hope, peace, and healing...

Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 19, 2010
Hey all,
Micah, yes, I felt at 30 days(last time around 3/2009) that I still had lingering w/d symptoms but by day 45, I felt I was pretty much back to my pre-Tramadol self. Some people are fine after a week. Every person has a bit a different experience. I think my experience was on the long side though. I was also on Neurontin for a while and tried coming off of Trams and Neurontin at the same time and it was awful.  Tram w/d is way worse, but Neurontin has its own set of w/d's, more of a depression/anxiety for me.  I would only do one at a time, but maybe thats not an option for you at this point?  Let me know. I will try to help as best as I can. Ive been there and am pulling for you.

4leef-I was 'flying' down that mountain yesterday and I SMILED. BIG. :-) How are YOU? Thinking of you.
fmn-I know Ive said this before, but THANK YOU, for being here and writing. It's so wonderful.
cleaningup-I am here for you. And really understand your pain.  Keep sharing with us.
granpat-you ARE doing great.  Finding therapy right now is a perfect idea and step to take. I am finding (with experience) that the more support I have, the better I do with this nagging addiction. One-on-one therapy has been wonderful for me and I hope you find that too.  You may have to interview a few doctors before you find the right 'fit', so dont give up if the first one doesnt feel right.  Go Pat!

While we were all shredding down the mountain, I felt so lucky. I hope I can continue to make good choices and positive changes.

Keep fighting!!

Bode

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 19, 2010
Bode girl...you are so dang sweet!!!!!  What a cheerleader you are...thank you honey.. I leave on Sunday..please keep me in your thoughts as I navigate the foreign city and proceed to try and do my job in this altered state of withdrawal..  sounds like you are having a blast...and PARTICIPATING in life...good for you!!  I  am tried of sitting on sidelines numbly as my life floats by..i want to be a participant again..and i will be..!!!  How can i not succeed with everyone out here cheering me on and my own determination?  
So much love and hugs and peace  to everyone...hang in there...please!!
keep writing...



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by forget_me_not, Feb 19, 2010
Bode, I am just imagining you flying down the mountains with a huge smile!  It makes me happy to see that.  I've never been skiing (YET).  Have always wanted to, but for the last three years or so, the tramadol-induced body pain made many physical activities impossible.  Four years ago (before the wrist sprain and introduction to Ultram), I ran at least two miles daily.  Worked out in a gym, was in great shape physically.  Over the course of the next three years, I basically was in so much pain BECAUSE of the tramadol that I couldn't do anything physical.  And what did I think I had to do?  Take more, of course.  What happened then?  The pain got significantly worse.  To the point I was essentially disabled.

All of this because of a non-habit forming, safe alternative to opiates.

I'm back in very good shape physically now.  And I can't wait to ski for the first time.

Pat, sweetheart, I would say that you are going into a foreign city to do your job in a Much Less Altered State than you would have been in had you taken more tramadol.  You are going to be more Present in yourself, even if there is a bit of discomfort.  You'll be more aware of yourself, your surroundings.  More responsive, even if you're conscious of that strange, anxious feeling at times.  You are the Real You, not the you wearing a tramadol mask.  The Real You.  And we love you, and so will everyone else.

peace and strength to all this day,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 19, 2010
Fmn...thank you so so much...yes..i like your spin on the "much less altered state"  thank you for such kind & loving encouragement...i feel like i won the lotto when i found you all out here...is that dramatic or what??  LOL
i guess not so dramatic when we realize what is at stake here...not just surviving but being able to thrive and  "fly down those mountains"  like Bode..fully present and alive!!
Love and gratitude.
  

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by Micah191, Feb 19, 2010
Bodegirl - Thanks so much for the feedback.  I woke up this morning anxious and shaking.  I don't have the option of getting back on meds to either wean myself off or do one at a time... it's too risky for me.  So I appreciate any tips you may have and I really appreciate your support.  

I've felt pretty crazy most of the week, and just coming here and talking to all of y'all has helped me so much.  Thank You.

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by Pinkmonki, Feb 19, 2010
Good morning all!  It has been a while for me.  Just remember you are bigger than that little white pill, don't let it bring you down.  You are stronger than it....it can be crushed in one blow, you can not.  Yes, during WD I felt like my face was sliding off, but it didn't and I survived.  I am now a stronger person, a more educated person, and doctors beware before you ever prescribe me any drug again.

~fmn it was so nice to see you back and to see our beloved Emilypost post!

Stay strong everyone, it is a heck of a ride, but this too shall pass!

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by Wummick, Feb 19, 2010
Glass half full Friday! As crazy and intense as the moods swings are-I was riding in the car last night and experiencing emotions I haven't felt for years. Very melancholy, but even in the midst of it I observed that real emotions and feelings had been pretty much eradicated from my daily life with Tramadol. Any setback could be erased with 100mgs. It might be a spin, but I tried to appreciate the fact that strong emotions and the experience of them is what makes us human, alive, and present in the real world.

I'm feeling VERY present today.....     ;-)

Peace to you all...

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 19, 2010
Beautifully put Wummick...thanks for the share -
Hugs.
Pat

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by forget_me_not, Feb 19, 2010
Micah,

Are you sleeping at night?  Also, did you suffer from anxiety or depression prior to taking the medicines?  If you did, it may be that you're having some rebound episodes, which can be worse than those you had before.  But even then, the good news is that it is temporary and will get much better soon.  I have had depression and anxiety problems for years, long before the drugs were in the picture.  And I found that the symptoms were greatly exaggerated in the weeks after quitting tramadol.  

If you didn't experience depression or panic prior to the meds, it may be that it's just a "healing symptom".  Either way, it's difficult, but will improve in time.

Since Neurontin acts on GABA, it seems likely that this may be a big factor in your anxiety, shaking, etc. The discontinuation of Neurontin and tramadol together would seem to pretty well guarantee a lot of anxiety.

I don't know if you have ever done Yoga.  It has helped me TREMENDOUSLY with the physical and emotional symptoms of depression and anxiety (and WD from tramadol and clonazepam, which I quit on the same day).  I began with the breathing exercises and added some of the physical exercises later.  There is an excellent book, "Yoga for Depression", by Amy Weintraub.  It has really changed things for me in good ways.  She actually addresses how Yoga is useful in helping with addiction, anxiety, and depression.  I recommend it for anyone who might be interested.

I am so sorry for what you're going through.  You are in a wonderful place, though.  We understand.  I sincerely hope you are feeling better today.  It's such a tough thing to deal with, but again, it gets better.  Please stay with us and keep posting.  Let us know how you are.

love,
~fmn

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by forget_me_not, Feb 19, 2010
Correction...Neurontin doesn't act on GABA, but acts similarly, triggering a lot of anxiety upon discontinuation for many people.

At 35 days, you are very likely to see a dramatic turn pretty soon.  Hang in there.

lots of love,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by sdb91awd, Feb 19, 2010
Hi everyone.  My name is Steve and this page has really reopened my eyes about this addiction.  I have been taking tramadol almost non-stop for a little over a year.  

At first I really thought this drug was created just for me.  I worked at UPS handling packages and my back always hurt.  In addition to helping my pain, this drug also seemed to make everything easier for me.  I could focus on studying more, I was better at sports that I played and I just felt like I could do anything with my little helper drug.

The dosages went up slowly over the first 10 months up until about 400mg per day on average.  I had been hiding this drug from everyone and one day my gf found some pills in one of my stash spots that I had all over my apt. so I could have access to them when people were over.  My whole family found out about this and I promised I would quit and I did exactly that as soon as my bottle ran out.

The withdrawal was the worst and seem to be pretty much like you guys here are describing.  A month after I quit I was feeling ok physically, but my mind was not able to focus on the studying I had to do to pass my final exams.  

I relapsed, which helped me get through school, but now I am right back to being an addict.  It has been a few months since I re-started and God has convicted me today.  Reading the posts here made me cry and made me miss the normal feelings and really made me shameful again about all the lying I have been doing to myself and others. I felt so good after I quit the last time and I want that to be permanent this time.

I had started tapering the other day and I am currently down to about 200 mg per day.  Do you guys think tapering is an ok route to take?  I am doing everything I can to avoid the WD symptoms I had to endure the last time but maybe it is just better to get it out of the way.

Wish me luck everyone.  I will be on here for support every day and I thank God that he showed me this web site so I have people who can relate to this and help me out.





Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 19, 2010
Hi Steve!

Welcome aboard the recovery train!!  No shame allowed here only positive thoughts and a pat on the back to you for realizing that you need to get off of the pills again.

You will find many opinions here about whether or not to CT or taper.  It all boils down to what works best for you.  I did a fairly quick taper and this kept the physical WD's to a minimum but I still struggle with the brain fog and the inability to focus.  It does get better every day though and as I am at day 19 today, I can look back and tell you that the clarity does come back - just not fast enough for me!!  LOL.

I am so proud of you for realizing what is important in your life and I wish you well during your transition to a Tramadol free life.

Susan

Avatar universal
by jillbean76, Feb 19, 2010
I am new here and new to quitting Tramadol.  I've been taking it for 9 months and up to 400mg a day.  I'm having pretty good w/d symptoms and stayed home from work to try and get through this without anyone noticing that I'm going crazy.  I'm only on day 3 with no tram.  I've got sweats, nausea and shaking and just plain feeling like crap.  I went on a pretty cold turkey route and had NO idea the symptoms would be this bad!  How long before I can function again?  I'm hearing weeks, which makes me want to try and find some more to just stop this awful feeling, but then I think this awful feeling is because of those so that seems ridiculously stupid, yet isn't that what addiction is?

Came clean with my husband and he's supportive, but just don't know how long I can take these feelings.  So glad I found this thread so I know this is at least "normal".

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by forget_me_not, Feb 19, 2010
Steve and Jillbean,

Welcome, both of you!  While I'm sorry you are going through this, I'm so very glad you are here.  You've come to a wonderful, supportive place of healing.

Steve, the taper method works VERY well for many people.  Just hang in there, and stick with your plan.  Do you have someone to help you?  It can be really helpful to have someone to support you through this, and also to be "accountable to", in a sense.  I'm also sorry that the cognitive problems persisted for you even after a month off the drug.  But take comfort...you're not alone!  I had the same experience, and many of us here do.  The physical stuff subsides relatively quickly, but it takes some of us a while to regain full cognitive/emotional normalcy.  But you CAN do it!  It gets better in time.  

Jillbean, my heart goes out to you.  I am sorry for the suffering you're going through right now.  We've all been there, and we understand and support you completely.  Please don't be scared by the fact that many of us are still fussing with WD symptoms after several weeks.  The worst of it is the first week.  After that it gets easier.  Much easier in time.  You'll be functional again very soon.

Please, don't be concerned right now with ANYTHING past the present.  Just this very moment in time.  Get through each moment, and before you know it, it's going to be much, much better.  At day 3 you are right in the thick of it.  It's terrible, awful, disabling even.  But take heart, dear, that we are all right there with you and we will walk with you through every second.

One moment at a time.  Don't worry about the future.  Just get through today.

Again, so glad you both are here.  B12 sublinguals, hot baths with epsom salt, ibuprofen, Immodium for the abdominal cramps, heating pads for the muscle aches, and ace-bandage-type wraps for my legs were life savers.  Read back through Emily's old journals and you will find tremendous wisdom and helpful tips to get you through this tough experience.  

Stay with us here.  Post often, anytime you want to.  Ask questions.  Rant, cry, scream.  Just hang in there.  It gets
better!  I promise.

be strong and fight on.  
~fmn

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 19, 2010
Jill and Steve -  Welcome....you are right where you are supposed to be..here among many who are fighting or have fought this beast..I am  new myself..and im tapering..I can tell you that this room (forgive me everyone out there for repeating this again)..is saving my life..I don't think i would have courage to take this journey were it not for the support from everyone out here.  Like a safe haven/nest to fall back into when you think you can't take it anymore..someone always seems to be here ready to offer encouragement..and if you dont hear from someone right away..just hang in..and hang on..they'll get here as quick as they can.  We are all in this together  ..and here to listen..so keep writing ..keep posting...keep fighting.
Pat

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 19, 2010
Also for both Steve and Jillbean-
  Fmn covered the gamut of w/d strategies .....I'd also recommend using Nyquil (without decongestant!) at night for the restless legs in w/d....pharma did a post on this recently...you can search it and read her take on this...I wish I had known about it....I made the mistake of NOT addressing the anxiety and depression 'waves' in the weeks following the 5-7 day miserable w/d (which I think of as the 'opiate w/d' ) the next several weeks of the depression and anxiety as the SNRI w/d
I am sure this is not black and white....like I am making it sound...but eventually I had to go to a psychiatrist and get some help with the depression, anxiety and insomnia....I struggled badly with these...I hope you know your experience may be very different...I just want you to get more help if you find yourself feeling  like you are going to fracture into a million pieces....that was me
and the help has been great ....hey I need all the help I can get
  
Hi Fmn- you rock!
Pat- yes, Hon....I got so sick of defining myself  with the little white helpers, as Steve said -the trama go round- takes over and everything I did I began to attribute to it....like without it I would not be able to function...it lies to us...first it appears to give us everything we feel we have been lacking...then it takes it all away...the w/d are the exact opposite as the way Tram made you feel 'in the beginning"--- tired, listless, head in a fishbowl, limbs like lead but on fire! gut churning...legs jumpin all night   whew! those first 7 days cold turkey are pretty remarkable....you are doing great on the taper...I couldn't do it, I know myself just enough to be certain of this....stay the course, Dearest...we believe in you!
Great news Bode! Happy joyous free and flying.....I m so proud of you!

things great around here...although yesterday and the day before the anxiety and depression were 'cookin' I just keep rolling with the current plan and try not to 'freak out' if I can't sleep....I don't struggle with tiredness as a rule, but sometimes that comes in waves, too
whats all this wave sh*t?

I am reading Anthony deMello's book
Awareness....the perils and opportunities of Reality
it is very very cool
ok ALL bless you and Keep you
Stay Strong
one day and one moment at a time
that is how all battles are won........


Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 19, 2010
Awareness is a great read, fun too :)

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 19, 2010
Oh, one more thing (yeah, likely story)
I'd like to add to FMN's plug for Yoga......I do a Vinyasa Flow and have been both passionate about it and feel confident advocating it to anyone
I work in medicine...and see, everyday, the illnesses that could be bettered by a regular yoga practice...both mental and physical.
Yoga teaches me how to:

  mind my own business
  love without conditions and expectations,
  accept myself where I am and others where they are
  where I am both weak and strong
  balance
  breath
  and most importantly how to 'stay home'
I don't get 'hijacked' by emotion like I did before a regular practice
when things 'heat up' I can breathe through my heart and remain at 'the center'




Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 19, 2010
Hi Chess-- !!
I am also reading Push by Sapphire

have you explored The Course in Miracles
and Power vs Force (and several other books) by Hawkins?

cool metaphysics

heavily
into Joel Goldsmith right now
more accessible to my mind in my current shaky state
my toes are starting to touch the ground
and it indeed is holy

Avatar universal
by jillbean76, Feb 19, 2010
Just recalculated and I'm actually not on Day 3, it's more like Day 2.  This is so miserable, if I had known it would be this hard would I have started?  
Where do you get the sublingual B12?  At Walgreens or do I need somewhere more specific?
Thank you for your support!
FMN - your words were so encouraging -thank you!  It's nice to not be alone in this horrible ordeal!

Avatar universal
by yllopcat, Feb 19, 2010
Hello everyone,
This is the space that has helped me!! I was away to visit my grandmother for a few weeks and then my season started. Racing, ( Track, indoor outdoor! and um Im coaching too Soo Fun)
I had taken a break after my big "cabin" WD experience last September. It was truely horrble! Good job to paople getting through it. I did have a skiing injury over the winter, I tend to be competative at apparently anything I do. I needed to come clean. So I got off everything. And after the skiing crash, ( nothing was broken ). But after two days of gutting it out I gave in and my physical therapy guy gave me vics.
Granted I took them on and off for the pain. But I feel Ive now awakened the desease again so to speak. Please anyone who has experienced a slip let me know how to begin. I hate meetings. though Ive tried that. I do see a counselor. And also, I had some really sad relationship issues a big break up of my fiance in September as well. And it didnt have to do with all of this. But when it rains it pours. Ive been trying to stay off it unsuccesfully. And feel I have to start all over. Maybe not exactly physically all over. Im not dependent on it. But phsychologically speaking Ive really messed up my mind and heart. I have started racing and coaching which is my passion, and its going really well finally and I know---absolutely know its because Im listening to my body. I really think the mind games are the worst!!!
I have to just "not start" Ive looked for the chapter 54 even in NA books but the store doesnt carry them, and I dont want to wait till a meeting, or go and where is it online?? Does anyone know?? Does it cost something? I think the hard and reaaally hard hard part for me is the ---"whats next" Im not depressed or anything, I am also very motivated, I work my band is picking up Im excited about things, but I am sad about my ending of my relationship. And feel that because of those nasty pills and not really communicating well I let it slip away. The psychological part!!!!!
"What is next"?? after getting detoxed?/ I need to stay clean, I worry and stress constanly I may be able to compete at nationals or the masters worlds for something, and I dont know why this is so hard. I want to be free and know its ok to be me. I still feel like I have to accomplish a million things to be anybody. In my mind Im glad Im back, this posting was the only site that got  going, one: its discrete, private, and people have been there or are there. Its ahorrid obsession and I want it completely dead. Once and for all. I have various weeks clean and months but not much straight time. And its a slippery slope. Ive seen some of my old posting people, Fred, Lisa, Forget me not.. Thanks for being here.
Ill try to hang in I know the support is so important. I had support from close room mates and still do. And from my exhusband. But if I want any new relationships to work, I think I need to move forward more.
"What is next"?
Help.
Polly

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by forget_me_not, Feb 19, 2010
Jillbean, the B12 sublingual tablets at any drug store will work fine.  I take a mega-dose (2500 mcg) daily for two reasons: I am B12 deficient and have been for a while, and it seriously helps combat the fatigue and "Brain fog" we often get in the weeks after quitting tram.

If you had known how hard it would be, would you have chosen to quit taking it?  I remember that same question going through my mind.  But at some point (in my third and successful attempt at getting free) I realized, THIS is something I will NEVER, EVER go through again in my life.  Ever.  There is just no way in he!!.  I felt like I was dying.  Like I was going to die within seconds.  Actually hoped I would at a few points in time.  In retrospect, though, those awful days helped me.  They helped me understand the true nature of this addiction, the true evilness of the grasp it had on my mind and body.  It was sort of like, for me, I had to go through that in order to know the drug enough to hate it enough to quit.  You know?

It's awful.  Where you are is a difficult place.  As often as you can, take some time and just breathe deeply.  Feel the pain in your body and let it forge a memory in your mind that will keep you from EVER taking another poison pill. The pain is just a sensation.  It's temporary, and now that you're off the poison, you can look forward to a day SOON when it will be GONE.  For now, just be in the moment.  Remember everything about what you're going through.  It is making you stronger second by second.  Your body and mind are healing.  It's the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.  And I've done some hard stuff.  Nothing was as hard as getting through that first week.  Especially the first five days.

The only thing that would have been harder would be if I had kept taking it.  This drug was battering me, mind, body, and spirit.  It was killing me.

Hang in there.  The B12 helps, and so do foods high in potassium (bananas, baked potatoes) and proteins.  Drink plenty of water. If you can eat, try to eat foods with quality proteins in them.  Lean chicken, beans, cereals, whole grains, even Slim-Fast bars that are high in protein.  Hot tea helps for relaxation at night.  I took 5-htp, a serotonin precursor, that helped me sleep in the weeks after acute withdrawal (I didn't know about it at first).  It increases serotonin in the brain, so don't take it with anything else that increases serotonin (some antibiotics, like Cipro, migraine meds like Imitrex, and so on).  

Most of all, time.  Just time.  One moment at a time.

Don't worry about tomorrow.  Just get through this moment, right now.

We're here for you.

lots of love,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 20, 2010
Hi Clover! Thanks for you reading suggestions, and glad to hear that you've found some good books. My Journey through the 'Realm' began with Hesse's Siddhartha at 16. That book moved me deeply for reasons I could not then explain. Coming from an arguably abusive upbringing and strict Catholic schools, I became disillusioned with organized religion at a very young age. I knew there was something wrong with the version of the bible I was being taught, I just didn't know what.

In my 20's I became fascinated with the works of Carlos Castaneda, but later disillusioned when there was speculation he was a hoaxer (I still think his books are entertaining and brilliant, but should be taken as allegory, rather than gospel fact). Then I encountered Ouspensky's 4th Way and "In Search of the Miraculous," along with the wonderful talks given by the late Vernon Howard at New Life Foundation. One other spectacular author that deserves mention here is J. Krishnamurti (you should check out "Freedom From the Known," if you get the chance). Tolle is excellent as well, but I'm still on the fence about whether he is a genuine 'mystic' or 'eclectic gatherer' of spiritual truths.

Another thing I have found is that there are subtle but profound differences between New Age philosophies and authentic inner work. New Age philosophy picks and chooses what it likes and tends add a lot of misguiding 'fluff.' Many say you can merely 'think'  your way to 'salvation,' or can be a 'god' unto yourself, that you can keep your ego and eat it too, so to speak which, in my view, is subtlety deceptive. There is no easy button for self-transformation. One example is the Conversation with God series by Neale Donald Walsch, but you can probably find your own.

Presently, I'm active with Guy Finley and Life of Learning. I realize that the best any 'teacher' can do is point to the path, but cannot take the journey for us. That said, most do not want to take a journey that is like Bunyan's Pilgrims Progress, or Frodo's trek up Mount Doom (Christ's climb up Calvary Hill?).  And since modern psychology does not recognize authentic transformation (dying to one's ego), it seeks to find ever better easy buttons (in the form of drugs), or solutions that involve an escape from inner pain. This is unfortunate because deep-seated issues are rarely resolved, but merely masked.

Pshew! This is long post, so I'd better end it here. You all have a great weekend!

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 20, 2010
I love this room...i love the thoughtfulness, wisdom, honesty, personal revelations, all of your stories...the sharing helps us (we who are new out here) to truly know that someone else out there is living thru and has survived that which we are undertaking.  The information about supplements, ad's, nutrition, the books. Yoga...exercising.. incredible..For those of you reading..keep reading..you will see your story ..or parts of it..i can just about guarantee this fact.  Chess I love what you said about dying to ego...and how modern psych..steers us away from this in one form or another..having been in and our of therapy most of my life..i absolutely agree with this.  my ego is my prison guard..holds the key and will NOT let me out...I am considering working with therapist who uses hypnotherapy as part of her modality..she talks about accessing the subconscious..to get at that crap that i've kept buried for so many years and can keep buried with use of drugs, alcohol..whatever..my ego is so fragile right now..i am defined by anything, anyone..so i think going deep will help me find Pat again...i dont know..i am hopeful...
thanks to all the angels out here...i travel tomorrow..i take you all with me...i wish you all peace, healing, love, light, strength, ,courage..whatever you need to push forward away from the pain of the tram addiction..
gratefully
pat

Avatar universal
by jillbean76, Feb 20, 2010
This is so helpful.  I told my husband about the B12 and he had some that he had used.  So I've been doing that and I think it's helping.  I took a big dose of Vit D (I've been deficient and prob more so since winter).  I have some herbal tincture for anxiety a friend made for me so will be doing those as the anxiety comes into play.  I also "cheated" and took a Darvocet to help with the incredible chills/shaking etc.  I have told my husband and will be accountable to him that I don't get over doing it with those too.  I'm using them to taper off the tramadol (does that make any sense?)  Not really, but it's the only thing I can do right now.  I have 2 young children and work full time (just started this week, of course b/c my timing *****.)  I can't afford to be on the couch shivering and crying.  And my husband has to work both days this weekend.  I'm hoping I can slowly detox from all of these over the next couple of weeks.  I think it's going to be like hell though!  I truly do think that going through this is what I need to realize these things are awful!  I despise them now!
Thanks again for all the support!

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 20, 2010
Jill...as long as you take very minimal amounts of darvocet to decrease the withdrawals of tramadol..I see no problem.You will  have to control its use and withdraw from it as well.Mainly take the vitamins and minerals and keep a positive attitude.Good luck in your healing and keep posting for we will all help you.
Drop any guilt you have and look forward to a brighter day and future ahead of you.

Avatar universal
by jillbean76, Feb 20, 2010
Pharma9 - thanks for the reply!  The guilt is hard but I'm trying to move forward and live a healthier life and not just mask my feelings or stress with pills.  Having my husband know has been a tremendous burden lifted.  That's exactly why I've told him about the darvocet too.  I don't want to just switch from one to the other.  I feel like as long as I'm still feeling some w/d symptoms and not getting a rush off the darvocet then I'm doing okay and getting my body clean. Just hoping the w/d from those isn't too bad either.  What a rough road this is!  I'm in awe of everyone who's done this and beat this battle!

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 20, 2010
jill- I think you can expect 5 days of misery....not really that bad when you calculate the freedom you'll enjoy. Tram LIES... the w/d makes you think you NEED it...it is a parasite...it comes alive inside you and then takes over...it is not going to leave without a Huge Tantrum....thats what you have on your hands, now....every cell in your body is readjusting and recalibrating to Life Without Tram ....if Tram could live through you for the rest of your life, it would....I did not have any cravings those first 5 days...nope...I was angry...I was miserable....I was dog-tired....my sense of humor took a leave of absence..my body ached and burned.....it actually burned and chilled at the same time! I didn't know whether to puke or 'sit' sometimes...so, here you are....jillbean...like an Olympian...on day 4 of a 5 day stint in h*ll on Earth...we are standing beside you, ringing the cow bells and cheering you on...one more Day, Honey.....we believe in you !
YOU CAN
Chess- thanks, I am looking into your suggestions, they are much appreciated.
I remember sitting in our Lutheran Church as a child listening about Jesus...what Jesus said....it's funny but I knew in my heart that Jesus was just like everyone else...but somehow had 'broken through'....and that everyone had the same capacity for salvation as he did....it was a strange and comforting feeling/awareness...but I dared not tell my parents...(actually I dared not tell them ANYTHING)
I have read EVERY BOOK Hermann Hesse wrote
as a young adult I converted to Judaism..I remember learning the prayers... thinking 'Jesus said these same prayers... worshiped this same way'...what the heck did HE know about Christianity?
wow
then...enter metaphysics in my fourth decade in this 'thing called life'
I still practice Judaism but like IT ALL.....
you are right.....all this material and religion we discuss is just a pointer....
Be Well, Be Strong (even when you feel weak) Be Free
You Are Loved


Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 20, 2010
Chess-  Carl Jung was pretty cool
smart, transcendent boundless thought
Then again so was Emerson who wrote:
'prayer is the contemplation of the facts of life from the highest point of view. It is the soliloquy of a beholding and jubilant soul. It is the spirit of God pronouncing His works good...As soon as a person is one with God, he/she will not beg"
........we ARE limitless
and fortunate to have so much 'material' to peruse  (what are you saying about the conversation with God books? I am not getting your meaning......they are an example of 'misguided fluff?"....I haven't read them and HAVE wondered about them...tell me more)

pharma- I got the B12 you recommended and think it helps with energy- thanks
how much omega 3 is safe? I do mega doses for my bipolar sometimes 4 gms a day but understand I could go higher
what do you think? The lamictal is working very well to shave the edges off the depression and helping some with anxiety
I still use clonidine 1 or 2 x daily....for the anxiety and insomnia...I do NOT have hypertension but am wondering if I am
'ruining' my circulatory systems natural 'regulation' with the continued use of this drug.....what are your thoughts?



Avatar universal
by Mandyloo, Feb 20, 2010
Im new,
So how do you or did you start? I feel guiltly all the time. I have used Ultram for a year, and did not know it was so highly addictive. I was obviously misled. Please help.
Do I read? Wean or just start weaning? I want off.
But am scared of withdrawels.
Mandy

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by forget_me_not, Feb 20, 2010
Mandy,

Welcome to the best Healing Place on the web!  So glad you are here.  So sorry you have to be here.  But glad you are.

I would definitely suggest that you take some time to read back through Emily's old journals.  You'll find many, many stories of people just like you, people who came here wondering how in the world they were going to get away from this drug.  You'll find stories that are different from yours, too.  But you'll definitely learn a LOT of very useful information about tramadol, addiction, withdrawal, supplements and tips for making the transition, and most of all, Life After Tramadol.

Being scared at this point is 100% natural and normal.  But be encouraged...you're in the wonderful company of many who have been right where you are, and are now able to assure you that you CAN do it.  You can get off tramadol.

I hope you will see yourself reflected in some of the words here, and that your guilt will diminish.  We often say "there's NO guilt allowed here!", because regardless how you got here, you are here.  All that matters is right now.  Making a choice and following through with that choice.  You will have tremendous support here.  You are not alone, and we will do anything we can do to support and help you.

Tapering off is a great choice for many people.  How much do you take each day?  Have you tried to stop taking it before?  Each person's experience is unique.  Some people find it much easier than others to stop.  Some of us have a really tough time.  I did.  It was the most difficult thing I have ever done.  But the wonderful people here helped me find the courage and resources to do it.

Tapering is good.  Cold turkey is hard.  You'll find success stories via both methods.

The most important thing is making that decision.

Stay with us here and post often.  Ask questions, rant, get mad, cry, be victorious.  We will share each step with you.

much love and healing to you,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by Mandyloo, Feb 20, 2010
Thank you very much,
Ill look back to Emily's posts. And I am thinking of tapering quickly then cold turkey Im just wanting to dump the rest, Im afraid if I procrastinate I wont do it.
Mandy

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by Pinkmonki, Feb 20, 2010
Hello to all old and new.  I did cold turkey and after going through that, I would really recommend a very slow taper.  This is due to the antidepressant present in tram/ultram.  Everyone is different though so you need to look at yourself and determine if you can even keep the drug around you and not give in to taking just that one, two, three extra.  Also, what kind of job do you have, do you have paid time off/vacation time to use?

FMN and everyone here is great at listening and coaching.  The one thing that helped me tremendously for RLS was potassium (thank you fmn!)  Bananas, potatoes, and I did massive doses of V8 low sodium juice.  I did not want to take another drug and I wanted to flush my body with good stuff.  I lived in the bathtub for the first 10 days and did a lot of laundry with the night sweats.  I AM SOOOO GLAD I GOT OFF THIS EVIL DRUG and those of you questioning it please do not look back.  You are going to have good days and bad days.  At the beginning there are more bad than good, but then the scale will shift and you will be so thankful that you stuck with it.

As for the focus, yes I do miss it, but not all the terrible stuff that came with taking the drug to get the focus.  I am still trying to work through this and I have a few items on my plate that are getting in the way, or maybe I am just being lazy and using them as excuses.

FMN, after reading your newer posts I am thinking about maybe a little antidepressant, but still not sure.  I am really trying to determine everything.  

Here is my determining list that I've been dealing with: 1) 4months out from the death of my father and watching his decline from pancreatic cancer, 2) helping my Mom with all of the paperwork, bookkeeping, budgeting, and taxes, 3) living with a bakers cyst behind my left knee which has been drained two times and I was just told on Thursday that it needs to be surgically removed, 4) scared of the surgery and any use of pain medicine...I've already had 9 surgeries in 5 years and the 9 lives is used up (maybe my kitty cats will give me a few of theirs), 5) tramadol totally screwed with my brain and I had been 8 months clean from a 14 year use of antidepressants, OK I could go on, but those are the biggies.

Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions from the above?

My biggest help through the WD, and besides my husband, was posting here.  Getting those thoughts and feelings out and there were clearly times I was posting hour by hour wondering if I was going to make it another hour or even minute.  

Be strong you can do it!!  



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by Pinkmonki, Feb 20, 2010
Hello to all old and new.  I did cold turkey and after going through that, I would really recommend a very slow taper.  This is due to the antidepressant present in tram/ultram.  Everyone is different though so you need to look at yourself and determine if you can even keep the drug around you and not give in to taking just that one, two, three extra.  Also, what kind of job do you have, do you have paid time off/vacation time to use?

FMN and everyone here is great at listening and coaching.  The one thing that helped me tremendously for RLS was potassium (thank you fmn!)  Bananas, potatoes, and I did massive doses of V8 low sodium juice.  I did not want to take another drug and I wanted to flush my body with good stuff.  I lived in the bathtub for the first 10 days and did a lot of laundry with the night sweats.  I AM SOOOO GLAD I GOT OFF THIS EVIL DRUG and those of you questioning it please do not look back.  You are going to have good days and bad days.  At the beginning there are more bad than good, but then the scale will shift and you will be so thankful that you stuck with it.

As for the focus, yes I do miss it, but not all the terrible stuff that came with taking the drug to get the focus.  I am still trying to work through this and I have a few items on my plate that are getting in the way, or maybe I am just being lazy and using them as excuses.

FMN, after reading your newer posts I am thinking about maybe a little antidepressant, but still not sure.  I am really trying to determine everything.  

Here is my determining list that I've been dealing with: 1) 4months out from the death of my father and watching his decline from pancreatic cancer, 2) helping my Mom with all of the paperwork, bookkeeping, budgeting, and taxes, 3) living with a bakers cyst behind my left knee which has been drained two times and I was just told on Thursday that it needs to be surgically removed, 4) scared of the surgery and any use of pain medicine...I've already had 9 surgeries in 5 years and the 9 lives is used up (maybe my kitty cats will give me a few of theirs), 5) tramadol totally screwed with my brain and I had been 8 months clean from a 14 year use of antidepressants, OK I could go on, but those are the biggies.

Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions from the above?

My biggest help through the WD, and besides my husband, was posting here.  Getting those thoughts and feelings out and there were clearly times I was posting hour by hour wondering if I was going to make it another hour or even minute.  

Be strong you can do it!!  



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by Pinkmonki, Feb 20, 2010
oops, sorry my computer wonked out a little!

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 21, 2010
4leef..I don't think there is a really stated daily dose of omega3..I take 2 x 1000mg daily.You are probably ok with more.Don't worry about the clonidine for you can taper that anytime.
I love to read your philosophical posts and hope you are doing fine.
Everyone seems to be on their way to a life free of tramadol and that is a huge accomplishment.
Pink..I am over 5 months opiate free and have had pulled muscles in my back twice and a dental abscess and only used otc pain meds.Ibuprofen 400mg,2 every 6 hours did it for me.You may need a zantac or prilosec to help the tummy if taking this dose and only short term.
Wow..77 days and you go girl.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 21, 2010
Clover: I love Emerson and his friend and contemporary Thoreau. A few of my favorite quotes are:

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

“Society everywhere is in conspiracy against the manhood of every one of its members. The virtue in most request is conformity. Self-reliance is its aversion. It loves not realities and creators, but names and customs.”

Emerson (Self Reliance)

"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation."

Henry David Thoreau (Walden)

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 21, 2010
yes, chess.....yes.......very nice
tell me what you meant about the conversations books by walsh, if you please
pharma--thanks for your input...it means a lot to know I'm not jambing the system ...so to speak--- hope you are doing well, sure sounds like it --5 months off opiates -why, dear one, thats almost 1/2 a year!
....i still crave at times.....they are momentary little things...my throat tightens and I want THAT feeling...then I start to THINK
about the reality of my desire and it fades away..... they don't come every day and seem to be decreasing in frequency
riding it out here and truly enjoying my experience
the mood stabilization has been nothing short of miraculous....(you will understand the following, I am sure)
I struggled with episodic drinking and drugging my entire life.... I was diagnosed in my late 20s with Bipolar disorder and started on lithium, and, eventually a plethora of other psychotropics (you know the drill) some of this psychiatry was NOT GOOD MEDICINE....at the age of 43 I had a particular and challenging set of circumstances (read personal holocaust) and I stopped all psychotropics and sobered up/cleaned up====  started working a rather feverish program in aa and particularly al anon (as both my parents, and their parents and so on and so on) were alcohol- challenged, shall we say.
I have 'muscled' my way over these last 10 years without psychotropics of any kind...and really have done quite well
last feb I went to the rheumatologist for exquisite pain in my forearms...(hockey, after none for 20 years -what an idiot!)
and was prescribed Tramadol....had NO IDEA about the SNRI component and was not told about it
meanwhile the snoozing giant in my closet (didn't I close that door years ago?) came awake during w/d and was busy waking up without my paying attention and right under my nose while I was on the crap (tramagarbage)
so................I have come to feel grateful for this experience...I conspicuously consumed by finding a highly regarded psychiatrist....he spent 1 and 1/2 hr on initial interview (unheard of!)
and I started on lamictal....I feel better in some ways than I have felt in years...(it is HARD to ride bipolar without meds...but it is better to take less than more)
tramadol could have whipped me into something I couldn't get shut down for a while
VERY DANGEROUS for someone like me
I am grateful to get all the help here and in my community with my MD and support people
it takes a village to get an addict clean...(.to steal from hilary and modify a bit)
so...I am still sober and now free of tram
STAY STRONG WARRIORS
You Are Loved


Avatar universal
by jillbean76, Feb 21, 2010
Posting is helping me, so I continue.  I actually feel lucky that I haven't had as much of the vommitting and/or muscle pain you all are describing.  This is such an ugly drug, why are they prescribing this?  So many questions.  I can't believe all the people on here discussing their addiction and yet they continue to ignore it.  I am not feeling any cravings for tram - it has literally become a 4 letter word in my mind.  Although, I know how tricky our minds are and they cravings will be around the corner waiting for a time when my defenses are down.  I quit smoking years ago and the addiction feelings are so similar.  It's the same craving, wanting and IF you can wait it out it goes away.  I'm trying to do the same things for this that I did with smoking.  Although, that will come later, right now I'm fighting the physical symptoms of w/d.  They are getting better.  Every day I've made it a little further into the day without taking the Darvocet (am using it to taper since I'm out of tram - and I've never felt so bad when I've come off darvocet previously).  I wish I would have done a slow taper but didn't have that option.  If I were going to do it though, I would have to have someone else give me the pills and hide them.  I do NOT have the self control to limit myself if a full bottle is staring at me.  You guys do give me strength to keep fighting and to remember how awful this experience is to help me fight through the cravings later when my mind thinks I can have just one.
FYI, if anyone can get their MD to prescribe Mirapex, it has done wonders to help me with not just RLS but my entire body feels restless.  I was prescribed previously b/c I suffer from that too.  It has helped me sleep tremendously.
I'm choosing to be proud of myself for quitting as opposed to guilty for starting!!!!

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by ComingClean, Feb 21, 2010
Hello all,

I guess it's been a while since my last post. I'm going to keep this short because I'm so ashamed of my using. I did get the refill and relapse after going CT for 10 days. Since refilling I've been taking 6-10 a day. So much for tapering huh?..but I guess when I start to get low (have 90) I will start to take less. Again sorry for the bad news, I hope everyone is really fighting this battle because it is a sick drug. My thoughts and prayers are with all who are going through this. Hope all is well...Until next time...ComingClean

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by forget_me_not, Feb 21, 2010
Jill, YAY!!  It's so good to hear from you, and to hear you sounding so positive.  Going cold turkey is such a difficult thing.  And it may have been "for the best" that you had to go that route rather than tapering.  Everyone is different.  Some people have excellent results with tapering.  I was not one of them.  After several unsuccessful attempts at a gradual step down, I reached a breaking point and simply said, "No more."  And I declared war.  And I won.  It was the hardest battle of my life, but I am glad to say I made it through.  And so will you!

Glad to hear that Mirapex is helping you.  I have often wondered if it would be beneficial for the massive physical discomfort/restless body agony that ensues during the days and nights of acute WD.  Anything that helps alleviate the misery is just invaluable.  How many days out are you now?  I am thinking 5 or 6.  In which case, you're about to turn a corner and feel MUCH better physically.  

ComingClean, I'm glad you came on to let us know how you are!  I wish you didn't feel ashamed.  Dear, so few of us make it on the first attempt.  I didn't.  Many of us didn't.  It's ok.  Just keep coming here and stay with us, and when you are ready, know we'll support you.  You have proven to yourself that you can get through the acute WD.  The weeks after that are challenging.  That's when it switches, and it's no longer a matter of powering your way through the pain.  It's about persistence.  It's about being able to manage "sober living", and that's no easy task for some of us.  There are many pitfalls, and goodness knows we understand that.  I've made no secret of my struggles with depression, fatigue, and "brain fog".  Those things are hard, but compared to enduring the constant battering that this drug gave me...I can and will tough it out, knowing it will get better.  It has gotten better.  Much better.

Pat, we're rooting for you as you travel.  Please let us know how you are when you can.  You are really proving yourself, and we're so proud of you for that.  You are stronger than you feel.

Affirmations are good.  In my Yoga reading, I came across something that I adapted for myself, and maybe some of you will find it helpful, as well.  I close my eyes and breathe deeply, and repeat these out loud.

"I am not addiction."
"I am not depression."
"I am not anxiety."
"I am not the pain or fear or (insert your present emotional state) that I am feeling."
"I am a Child of God."
I am.
I am.
I am.
I am.
I am.
I am.

love,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 22, 2010
"I am not addiction."
"I am not depression."
"I am not anxiety."
"I am not the pain or fear or (insert your present emotional state) that I am feeling."
"I am a Child of God."
I am.
I am.
I am.
I am.
I am.
I am.

Excellent, Clover! In fact 'you' are not anything you identify with. Identification creates an IMAGE, but that image is not who you truly are. The self-image is an illusion, a fabrication; it is at the heart of a false sense of self. You were asking me about the Conversation with God series, and other New Age pablum. If you examine them closely enough, you find they glorify an image of the absolute--the absolute idea--some even making the assertion that 'you' are god godding, or 'create' the world as you see it, rather than interact with a Greater Being where perception brings revelation. Further, this implies there is no such thing as good and evil, or really even a 'higher power.' Everything is relative within the illusion--the dreamer creates the dream-scape he or she interacts with. Many people fall for this nonsense in my view because they do not see it for what it is: a subtle form of self-glorification.

Secular humanists like it because they believe mankind can 'rescue' itself without individual transformation, or if transformation is needed, it can be self-achieved without any recognition of a Broader Whole to which it is beholden. No need for the ego to be dissolved, only to enter a better and greater dream-scape, as it were; ego simply needs to evolve, according the New Agers. Admittedly, some of these distinctions are subtle, but quite profound if you go deeply enough into it. And many are deceived.


Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 22, 2010
Hello all,
First, I have to say(sorry Pharma) GO USA!!!!! USA vs. Canada hockey was unbelievable! Okay, just needed to shout it out there...no offense Canada, but that was HUGE of USA hockey!!!!  Also, go Bode (Miller!!)  My family loves hockey and skiing so these olympics have been exciting!

Anyway, 4leef, I love your descriptions of 'the sleeping giant' and how Tramadol woke 'him' up. But now, you are in a good place. You are sounding so well. That sleeping giant is at bay again... Am I right?  Wonderful news!

Jill-You are doing great. You are.  You will see that soon, things will start to turn in the right direction. Keep posting.

Comingclean-Believe me, you should not feel ashamed. MANY of us have been here(as in quitting) more than once. This is my 4th attempt.  You are not alone.  

Pat-Thinking of you on your trip too!

FMN-as always, you are such a comfort.
To everyone else-I read ALL your posts and am pulling for you. I truly am.

I am back to work today and plan to end my suboxone on Wed.(yikes!). It will be day one of taking zero meds and I am a little worried even though I have done a very slow taper down to a tiny crumb.  It's the fear of the unknown. Will I be ok? Will I feel any w/d? Either way, I am ready. Thanks for being here for me, everyone.

Thinking of you all,
Bode

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 22, 2010
Sorry, FMN that was you who posted the yoga affirmations.

The second half of the affirmation:

"I am a Child of God."
I am.
I am.
I am.
I am.
I am.
I am.

is fine as long as we do not attempt to define God from our limited perspectives, which is what organized religion, and phony New Age philosophies tend to do.

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 22, 2010
Bode..the Americans are fired up for this Olympics.Perhaps because it is taking place in the Western Hemisphere close to home.You guys seem to have winners in every sport.That hockey game was not the final and it aint over till its over.I don't think USA or Canada have played the Russians yet and they are a powerhouse team this year.In fact Russia could beat Canada  next.I was watching ice dance...this year it was so nice with ethnic folk dance theme and I loved the ethnic costumes except the ones the Russians wore...the australian aboriginal stuff.The American hockey team this year is very strong.Good luck guys and hope to see you in the final game.

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 22, 2010
Bode- Wednesday, no crumb, eh? You'll be fine, Honey. There was once a weatherman on national TV who developed a panic reaction when in front of the camera...it really 'rocked' him since he had spent years in front of cameras daily with no problem....he started on valium for the anxiety but knew he had to 'deal' with the underlying problems, which, I believe, he did.. but he kept a valium in his front pocket and licked it before each show....that was it...a little ritual and he was fine
......so we can develop rituals ...and I wonder what yours will be....I would recommend, however making a ritual that wasn't so closely tied with a drug (if I had a valium in MY pocket I'd be figuring out a way to rationalize taking it...this guy was not an addict)  but the parable applies....we can 'fortify' ourselves ....and our addictive substance Tramadol was some sort of armor.....at least it was for me.....I go to the chapel at work and pray......I bring special tea to make during the day and maybe a little 'high test' chocolate.....I do my yoga breathing...and think about someone I can help
you sure have helped me, Honey
again.......you'll be fine
whatever comes up that day.....and subsequent days please journal about
these are the parts of us that clamor for attention ...we have been dampening them for soooo long
these parts are worthy.....we try to kill them
they have a story to tell us about our pain and confusion
and some of these parts are very young!
our higher self can't make decisions and perceive correctly when these little brats have ripped the wheel from our hands
and are driving madly down the highway
but we can't punish them and shush them forever, and stay clean
we need to listen to their story....and MAN do they have a story to tell

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 22, 2010
chess- thanks ......I think I understand what you are saying....we DO have to do the work....yep
it IS uncomfortable to do it...........
I think you'd like Goldsmith
he is basic for me
I have found that spiritual truth is always simple
complexity is ego
always

Stay Strong my Friends
and know that You are Loved

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 22, 2010
If you can find an 'authentic' living teacher it is the most fortunate thing, Clover, for there are so many brands of margarine out there that butter is hard to find, if you catch my meaning. :-)

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by forget_me_not, Feb 22, 2010
Good Morning, Warriors.

Just wanted to wish you all strength and courage for the fight today.  Jill, how are you?  

Pat, I am thinking of you on your trip, and hoping you conquer the fears that have been nagging at you.

Chess, those affirmations were adapted for my own personal use.  I understand that each person's concept of God will differ.  Not trying to proselytize.  Just sharing what has helped me.

The point, for me, is that you can fill in the affirmations with any identification or experience that you may be having.  I am not my job, I am not the flu, I am not my sadness, I am not my happiness, I am not my blissful joy or my heartbreaking sorrow or bonebreaking pain.  I am.  I am.  I am.  I am.  I am.  I am .  It pulls us out of the temporary context of perception, and into the more transcendent.  

Which can be very good for someone coming off pills.

Lots of love to all of you this day.  

fight on, warriors.

~fmn

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 22, 2010
I was agreeing with you fmn: you are not any of the thoughts you might be having about yourself. We are all much more than that. All I can say about 'God,' is that I presently do not know, other than there is a bigger picture to be realized, and I do not have any beliefs or definitive conceps in that regard.

"I Am" can be can be a be good way to bring your focus into the present, and center yourself. I take that be what you meant.


Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 22, 2010
can be can be a be (or bee too) haha

1059641 tn?1277525976
by forget_me_not, Feb 22, 2010
Bode,

That first day of taking Zero Pills can send one into a torrent of anxiety. It reminds me so much of a baby bird flying out of the nest for the first time.  Will my wings work?  Will I fly or bust my @ss on the ground?  What if I don't know *how* to fly?  Nobody taught me, and it's a pretty outrageous thing to conjecture that I'm just going to KNOW how.  And I don't feel very confident at all!  

Sweetie, you know how to fly.  You have flown thousands and thousands of miles on your own, with your own wings.  The medicines aren't your wings.  Jumping out of the "nest" is frightening, to be sure.  It's a Leap of Faith.  But that is what this whole game is about.  Leaps of Faith.

When you stand on your own legs with no crutch, you're going to feel unbelievable strength.  Unlike any other strength.  It's not physical strength or emotional or mental strength.  It's the strength of knowing (having it proven to yourself) that you ARE the strength you've been seeking.  It's all in you already.  It's there.  Trust it.

We are all here.  We're your support.  You do not have to do this alone.

healing prayers to all,
~fmn

1059641 tn?1277525976
by forget_me_not, Feb 22, 2010
Chess: most definitely, yes, that's what I hoped to convey with the affirmations.  Coming off drugs is something that throws many of us into a state of total vulnerability to our emotions.  And our physical experience, too.  Pain, anxiety, depression, pain, fear, pain.  This was something that really helped me in just that sense -- to bring the focus to what is true, not just what is experienced.

My perspective is that of a Christian who is disillusioned with organized religion.  So I could also add to my affirmations,

"I am not my disillusionment with organized religion."

For a long time, I felt like I was.  It was a huge problem for me.

But that's neither here nor there.

Warriors, self-talk in the form of these affirmations can be powerful.  It's good to acknowledge what you feel at the moment without judgment, and without turning yourself into your feelings. (I "feel" scared, not I "am" scared.)  These things help us separate our feelings (which are fleeting and will change) from the truth of who we are.

We are not addiction.

We are not fear, pain, depression, fatigue, restless legs, nausea, or brain fog.

We are, and will continue to be.

love to all.
~fmn

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by Micah191, Feb 22, 2010
Hello again.

fmn - thank you so much for the information.  It's funny how quickly I forget that my moodes are still on the fritz from the meds and start to think that I'm just wacko.  I wish I had read your post form Friday yesturday.  I was inexplicibly upset all day long and couldn't seem to shake it.  I do suffer with anxiety, and have for years.  I developed shinges in April of '09 which is what started this whole mess.  I'm still no good at handling my stress.

I'm sleeping better and 39 days clean.  As I said, my emotions are still out of whack, but I'm working a strong recovery program and keeping in mind that I'm still in a bit of a fog.

also - my legs are shaking like hell.  I'm a pretty active person, but it's like they're going to bounce right off my body and take off running! lol
good to hear that this is normal as well.  I'm not usually "normal", so this is kinda nice. ;-)

Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 22, 2010
FMN - your analogy about the bird flying from the nest on it's first day without pills is dead on!  I was that bird and when I leaped, my first thought was holy $hit - Im going back to the nest and take a pill. LOL.
It is amazing TO ME that I let myself succumb to the belief that my feelings that my very soul turned into a little white pill.  Amazing thing what drugs can to you! I want to thank you for that post in particular - it reasonates with me and it makes me think of Desparate Gran Pat.  She is just simply scared to leave her comfy nest and use her own wings to fly.

The posts between you (fmn), chess and 4leef have been brilliant and I must say - you guys are making me feel stupid!!  I need to read some books.....

Take care all and keep fighting.



Avatar universal
by sdb91awd, Feb 22, 2010
Hey guys haven't been on here since I introduced myself.  Thanks everyone for all the encouragement I just thought I'd add my experience with the tapering method.

My plan has been to basically go for as long as possible without re-dosing and I have been able to get down from 400mg per day to 125mg/day yesterday.  I try to go most of the day without taking any but by the time night comes I can feel my restless legs getting worse and worse.  I will take a smaller and smaller dose each night in order to sleep.

During the day things are definitely not good.  I try to exercise to keep my blood flowing and I have been taking 300+mg of 5-htp every day to try and get my serotonin flowing normally again but it is no match for the lack of tramadol.  I run out of energy very quickly and have a hard time doing even very simple tasks.  My attention span is SHOT.  Also, I feel like each day lasts forever and even getting through one hour is a challenge.

I do feel like tapering has been easier so far but I am so scared of the first night without any tramadol.  I just remember from before how each night can be a trip to hell that seems to last forever.  Hopefully slowly coming off this drug will ease that a little bit.





Avatar universal
by sdb91awd, Feb 22, 2010
Also congratulations to those of you who have stuck with this and beat this crap.  It is amazing how hard it can be to resisit swallowing some stupid substance.  The agony involved with withdrawals alone is enough for me to know that this is not a friendly thing for our bodies.  No good entity would ever create something that can induce so much pain, anxiety, depression, etc.  This stuff is straight from the devils workshop.

It is so soft and inviting and fabulous at first and then it is nothing short of hell on earth.  

I can't believe this junk can be had so easily.  This stuff is on par with the other pill-form opiates of the world and needs to be scheduled accordingly!

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by Micah191, Feb 22, 2010
SBD - what you said "I run out of energy very quickly and have a hard time doing even very simple tasks.  My attention span is SHOT.  Also, I feel like each day lasts forever and even getting through one hour is a challenge. " - is EXACTLY what's I've been dealing with today!.  Thanks for sharing and keeping me sane.

doing the simplest of tasks is exhausting and I can't keep focused long enough to finish anything.  I feel useless!  UGH

Micah


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by forget_me_not, Feb 22, 2010
Sdb, you bring up such an excellent point.  Tramadol has been marketed and prescribed for years as a "safe, non-habit-forming alternative to opiates" ... and as a footnote, it has "mild anti-depressant properties"!  Ouch.  Those words will make me sick until the day I die.  You and I and so many others (how many are there?) have suffered such agony because this medicine is misused, misrepresented, and wrongly applied by doctors who either a) don't know any better, or b) don't use the judgment needed to apply it properly.  Either case is unacceptable.  As a physician, I don't believe you have the right to claim ignorance.  If you don't know a drug inside and out, you shouldn't be prescribing it to people.  It's that simple, in my opinion.  Others disagree and defend physicians' standpoint, claiming that they only have the drug company's data sheet to go on.  But that's not good enough.  Not when people's lives are hanging in the balance.

The SNRI properties of tramadol are quite powerful.  It changes the chemistry of our brains, and once we stop taking it, our brains have to re-establish themselves.  Their equilibrium.  For some of us, that was an elusive state to start with!  But rest assured, you'll get there.  It will take a lot of time and dedication on your part.  Keep trying.  Keep working.

In Kentucky, tramadol is now a scheduled drug.  So I suppose the truth is slowly being recognized.

I recently read something really interesting about out brains' ability to regenerate neural connections -- to repair themselves after injury or damage.  It gave me a lot of hope regarding my own experience feeling "brain damaged" upon quitting this drug.  Children's brains are not the only ones capable of regenerating.  Adult brains can, too.  And we can help that happen.

I have sort of developed a regimen of activities that I believe are helping considerably:

B12 mega doses
Reading challenging material as much as possible
www.lumosity.com, and other activities that have been shown to help us "retrain" our brains
Practicing working memory exercises
YOGA. If you haven't tried it, perhaps you might consider it.  It's amazingly helpful with the emotional and physical aspects of recovery.

You summed up this monster very well.  Soft, inviting, even "healing" at first.  Once you're addicted, yes, it becomes nothing short of a trek through hell.

All journeys are completed one step at a time.  Healing is happening even now.

So glad to hear from you.

love and healing,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 22, 2010
SDB- well said, very well said.
I like your method of tapering....it is much what I do with caffeine..I wait until the headache just starts rumbling around the edges and then take a few ounces...it gets longer and longer between 'headache times'
.....I am MOST certain I could not do that with Tram....my mind can't stick to the program...comes up with lame excuses left and right for taking more than the program calls for.....I admire your resolve and your plan...I am sure it does not feel any too good being in low level w/d everyday now with this thing.....you might want to try some B12 for energy
how much are you going down on the TRam and how often?

Micah- nice work on the 39 days....I am glad for you that you have your program....those principles are abiding in the midst of this experience...still having restless legs? all day? or just at night......there was a recommendation by pharma to use the non decongestant robitussin for the RLS during acute w/d...you are a way out from that and I don't know how you feel about using that kind of substance with your recovery....someone else mentioned something recently that I had not heard of before...you might want to do a search on this thread (and the previous) on RLS and see what you can find
Keep Going....we believe in you!!

Susan- Hi Honey....last thing I desire is to think you have a feeling of stupidity reading any post written by me....how are you doing?
Where is our Pat? thinking of you Pat and hope you are faring well on your trip.....we want to hear all about it!
PINK -congrats on your clean time...I love reading posts from those who have gone before us ....I love it that you are still with us.....it adds a nice energy hearing how things are for you 'down the pike'
hi chess, Jill, pharma, comingclean, bode, Jen, FMN

you help make this a place of healing and acceptance
you guys ROCK
Stay Strong and Know
that You are Loved


Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 22, 2010
sdb91 - I agree with you 100%!  It boggles my mind how the Doctors seem to be almost excited about prescribing what they "think" is a non-addicting drug.  I tried to explain what I have learned from my personal experience to my Doctor last week and she would not believe a word I said.  I finally just asked her to google tramadol and read these posts.  She will probably not ever take the time to do so - you would think that I am not the only one that has brought this to her attention??  

I don't understand why the W/Ds are so bad at night.  That was my worst time also - I dreaded the hours between 8:00pm and 6:00am.  The good news is that these symptoms will pass and you will be on to your next recovery step.  

You are so right about the agony of wd's and after we all survive those first 5 days, the question we all seem to pose is "why did I take that pill again?"  - "why did it have such a hold over me?".

You are not alone my friend - keep talking to us.

Susan

Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 22, 2010
Hi 4leef - please dont worry about making me feel stupid I am in awe of your honesty and humor.  I am hopeful every time that I log on that there will be a post from you or FMN or chess - the way y'all write is healing, informative and it challenges me to become more educated about why I ended up on this thread in the first place.  What the hell happened to me?  My father was an alcholic my entire life - and one of my brothers died from Alcoholism at the age of 28 - I guess I just answered my own question - obviously I was at risk to become dependent on something - I just happened upon tramadol and this is what "got me"!  I was always so careful growing up as a teenager, young adult and the old lady status that I am fast approaching to be aware of drinking and drugs - even taught/teach my kiddos about the dangers.  Here I am today, writing to my invisible friends that I am addicted to a drug that was prescribed to be.  Unbelievable how this snuck up on me.

Thank God for all of you that are here for me every day - I haven't been able to tell my husband about my "situation".  My pride just won't let me.  He is the most amazing man and would be supporting and non-judging of me - but I just can't seem to break the news to him.  I guess when I can come clean to him I will be able to continue my journey???

I am a rambling mess this afternoon.

Where is Pat today!!!  I hope you are ok my dear.

Susan

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 22, 2010
YIKES FMN yes!....so true!
Susan- I am not worried. You are wonderful. I can relate to your story.
Yes....invisible friends...but NOT imaginary
(.....ummm i...uh... hope i haven't dreamed you guys up....)
anyway.....your heart will tell you when it is right to disclose....is there anyone you would feel comfortable telling ?
even perhaps by phone? I think it works well for me to just start somewhere....then the momentum takes me along
there is no rush...and We know that you are grappling with this withdrawal and addiction. Your telling is part of your journey but so is your non-telling
no worries my friend

Avatar universal
by sdb91awd, Feb 22, 2010
4leef- I was at a max dosage of 400 mg per day last week.  I first started tapering last Wednesday and I have averaged reducing my tramadol intake by a little less than one pill per day.  It wasn't all that bad until I hit 250mg or less per day.  Ever since then it has been very difficult to stick with the program.  I feel like it is going to get harder and harder the lower I go and I may reduce my taper to about 25 mg/day.  

I know the WD will still hit me very hard when I decide to quit completely.  Hopefully I will have the will power to take micro-doses spread far apart during those nights when it gets real bad.

I do also plan on getting some sublingual B-12 but no place around me sells it.  I'll probably have to order it.

FMN- What you say about equilibrium rings true over here.  It must be something about our normal brain activity that leads some of us on a mission to find the cure for whatever is missing.  But when I really look back, my life was so much better before foreign substances entered my life.I may not have always been "nice", or relaxed, or always lucid, but God knows I had fun and I had more friends and just generally had a much better existence. From THC to alcohol to stimulants to opiates; NOTHING can beat a sober lifestyle.

Knowing our brains can eventually heal is probably the best thing for all of us to know. We can all be normal again!




Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 22, 2010
Boy...reading all these wonderful posts I feel like I am in a philosophy classI was not able to study philosophy in university caus I was busy studying sciences.
So in a nutshell,my take on a lot of what ya"ll saying is....The Power of Positive Thinking.
Positive thinking gets us everywhere and helps us accomplish everything.
I really do LOVE to read these deep posts and keep on posting everyone.
My recommendation for restless legs and sleep at night is Nyquil without the decongestant.It contains tylenol 1000mg,dextromethorphan(a mild opiate) and doxylamine(an antihistamine causing drowsiness)
Nyquil can become habitforming and I prefer the alcohol based,but if you want to stay away from alcohol you can use the gelcaps.
I only took it max a week,but it got me through the worst and gave valuable sleep during detox.
My saying...anything that is legal and reasonable is OK to get through withdrawals
I am going to transfer this Power of Positive thinking to our Olympic athletes..

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 22, 2010
Ok..you guys got me crying now....sitting here in this hotel room..seeing these posts..realizing that i have this amazing community out here who is actually missing me...truth be told..im holding on ..barely...im overwhelmed more than i realized i would be...i know that it is the evil drug telling me i need to take more to function..but im resisting..im driving in this strange place ..im trying to talk to people but im so unsure of myself. ..because "i  AM"  this little white..football...  i AM...who this pill dictates that i be today......so i guess that taperiing and traveling and trying to be the consumate salesperson is not going so well...but i am ok...i did not jack up my dose..im just feeling so scared and weak ..and really wishing i could be back in my home in my bed...in familiar surroundings..so ..guys...you have no idea how much this means to me to see all your good wishes..  love you all.... i will post more tomorrow. - beating myself up..tapering...so exhausting..i will survivie this  by God..
love and so many hugs andn so much gratitude...to everyone else out there..please stay here..keep writing ..hang on..stay with us...good luck with your journey...
Pat

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 22, 2010
Desperategran...Hang in there girl.Not jacking up your dose in times of stress is definite progress.This is a difficult time to taper....you are not on holidays.Stay the course and do not put too much stress on yourself.If you maintain your dose through this trip you have done something worthwhile.I am very proud of you.
Hey....the power of positive thinking...
We are thinking about you and sending cyberhugs and love your way.

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by forget_me_not, Feb 22, 2010
Pat!  So good to hear from you!!  I'm smiling all over the place right now because you didn't jack up your dose.  You are BEATING this challenge!  It's really a hard deal to taper.  Really hard.  You are stronger than I am sweetheart.  I couldn't do what you are doing.  I could plow through seven days of hell but I couldn't taper.  What you are doing takes Will Power.  And you have it.  And you're going to win.

Take some moments tonight and just breathe.  Just sit and breathe.  Close your eyes and feel your breaths coming and going.  Pay attention to how they feel.  Try to relax your mind.  You are unraveling yourself out of this knot of addiction, strand by strand, just as you would undo a child's braid.  Freedom is just around the corner, and we're all right here with you.

Positive thoughts.  Healing thoughts.  You are right where you are supposed to be in every sense of the phrase.

lots of love to you this night.
~fmn

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by forget_me_not, Feb 22, 2010
Pharma,

I'm definitely no philosopher!  Like you, I was too busy in college studying my major courses.  I've been pointed toward some wonderful reading and learning in recent years.  Most of all, Yoga as begun to really transform my mind (and body).  

I never "got" it until I quit tramadol.  I never "got" it that pain and suffering aren't the same thing.  I didn't understand that we can separate our Self from our experience (pain or anything else) and view it as simply a sensation without reacting to it emotionally.  Pain is just pain.  Suffering is what happens when we actively resist that pain (or anything else we cannot change).  When I was in WD, the pain was excruciating, physically and mentally.  As a survival mechanism, I just relaxed into it.  I just took a deep breath and eased myself down into it.  Into the sensations of pain, restlessness, anxiety.  All of it.  And I found that, if I didn't react to it, I didn't suffer.  I simply was.  I just was, with that sensation, whatever it was.  I learned to abide, and to be ok with it there beside me, knowing it was temporary and would pass in time.

Strange what we learn about ourselves through such times of distress.  The layers of the onion are really peeled back.  I learned some Really Important Things.  Not universal, not for everyone I'm sure.  But it was the truth of what I learned, and it was how I survived.

All of you tonight who are suffering, know I am sending healing thoughts and prayers to you.

:-)

love,
~fmn

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by wantmyselfback, Feb 22, 2010
Hi Pat,

Hang in there.  As a "traveling salesman" myself, I lived years traveling from place to place making sure I had my tramadol with me.  It was like my security blanket or crutch that I always had to have with me.  My daily rountine consisted of making sure I had at least two tramadol in me with a cup of coffee, then some in my pocket while I did my thing, followed by some more before bed.

I'm now officially 75 days today and back on the road.  Just know that once you get off them for good, you're going to realize all those super powers you thought you had because of the tramadol was just a lie... you still WILL have those awesome multi-tasking abilities and will still feel amazing.  Don't let the first few weeks of w/d convince you that tramadol made you do those awesome things.  

I couldn't be happier that I'm 75 days out and finally can see what tramadol did to me while I was on it... which was not good.  I missed out on so much because of the trams, and I'm now rushing to get back lost time.  

So hang in there... like FMN states, you are truly stronger than most of us here.  I couldn't do a taper.  Many years I tried but never could do it.  Finally I went cold-turkey because I ran out on an extended holiday and couldn't get more.  After experiencing the most horrific withdrawals, I decided never to look back.

Stay strong!  Spring is just around the corner :)

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by Wummick, Feb 22, 2010
A little disappointed today. I've been tapering for 3 weeks-down from 250-25mgs( for three days) and feeling pretty comfortable at that level so I tried to go without today and couldn't make it. Around 6:00 P.M. I took 1/4 tab (12.5 mgs) . I'm gonna keep it at that level if possible till I see my WD Doctor next week, but I was hoping to impress him with a week of zero trams by that time. He put me on Prozac which seemed to be helping the depression but I guess I'm not quite there yet. I really thought I could do it today, but the WD's finally got to me. I guess I have to keep reminding myself that being okay on 25 mgs a day was beyond my comprehension less than a month ago so I just need to be patient.

As of next week when I start my "official" detox (W/ Kaiser Chemical Dependency Clinic)  I'll be off Trams completely, and I'm dreading it-to be honest. I'm hoping a week at 12.5 will ease the pain (surely it must!?) but if today was any indication I'm gonna be a mess. still, I'm trying to think positive and looking forward to my first tram free days in nearly 12 years.

Jeez...I wonder if I'm the longest continuous user in this forum? Some claim to fame.

Gotta get on that stairmaster tonight-although I hate it right now feeling as lousy as I do...

Peace to you all...

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 23, 2010


Wummick- I REALLY admire the way you are going about this w/d. Glad you will be getting treatment. I think that is wonderful. 12 years is a long time....it is like ending a very long term 'relationship'...every cell in your body will register it's disappointment a bit....could you try every other day for the last few doses? That might help

Granpat- Hi Honey!!! So great to hear from you Sweetness! You are doing wonderfully..

Hi pharma and FMN and Want!

...I am thinking back upon my life.....the discomfort and 'tough' stuff was ALWAYS where the growth came...and truly...this IS what I want to do. I would like to be so resonant with my conduct and choices that shame and guilt become just a memory. That when I feel I have deviated or unknowingly hurt someone that I have the skills to express my regret and then 'move on' from that point free and clear with an open and loving heart

today is 3 weeks clean after a 5 day relapse 32 days before that with a c/t from 200-300 a day habit.
(wow thats a mouthful)
confession?

I get these e mails from drug companies because I placed an order for Tram on line..by the time it came I was in c/t 3 days and I opened and dumped it immediately
the e mail I received yesterday I did not delete right away
but I went back and did it after reading your posts for the eve
(whats THAT all about......ewww!)
Thanks for Being here and inspiring me in those moments and all other moments, too!!!
STAY STRONG

Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 23, 2010
Today was my last little bit. No more and I'm happy and ready.  Ready to fly on my own!
FMN and 4leef-thank you so much for your thoughts. I LOVE the little bird metaphor!! It's perfect.  I swear, your kindness and encouragement means the world to me. And, 4leef, you're right. Rituals...I will have to get another one right?  
Pharma- no offense about that hockey game, I was just excited that the underdogs(USA) beat the Big Dogs(Canada) of hockey!  Im sure Canada will be there in the final game.  They are amazing!!  Thank you again for your advice on sleep, too.  Your advice is so valuable!
Pat-you are doing so well. We are really proud of you for hanging on and fighting so well. Tapering IS hard and your sticking with it so well.
wantmyselfback-great to see you again. Thanks for popping back here to encourage others-its so great.
Wummick-hang in there. For some 25mgs to none is too much to fast, so taking 12.5mgs may be better for you.  You're doing great.  I think the slower the taper the better.

Bode

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 23, 2010
No trams today...took 1.5 grams (approx a capsule and a half of leaf powder) of Old School Thai Kratom with orange juice. 20 minutes later: stimulating effect, floating a bit. No desire for trams. See how I do with restless legs tonight. And if I don't need it tomorrow, will not take either. Have .75 tab left of tram. Can get some more from my Dad, but I won't. Neck is healed, and will work out in the yard today pulling vines (don't like the cold, but it is great exercise). Will keep you up to date about how it goes.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 23, 2010
Wummick-hang in there. For some 25mgs to none is too much to fast, so taking 12.5mgs may be better for you.  You're doing great.  I think the slower the taper the better.

I agree Bode. It was before for me. When I started taking a low dose of tram again, I thought it would be better. Perhaps thinking you can 'manage' this drug is just an illusion--more likely it will manage you. Deceptive and insidious, and definitely suppresses the libido, though not a huge problem for me.

If you can Wummick: like bode advises take a quarter tab (12.5 mg) for awhile, and stop for a day...then 12.5 mg again if you need it...or crush a quarter tab and divide the powder (~6.25 mg, tastes awful!); if you have that much willpower, you will definitely make it. Don't become discouraged or kick yourself for falling back.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 23, 2010
The Greatest Accomplishment of All

The only truly worthwhile "accomplishment" -- the one action that stands the test of passing time -- is the interior work we do that allows God to accomplish His task in our soul.

Guy Finley

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by forget_me_not, Feb 23, 2010
Chess, that last quote...Beautiful.  Perfect.  I needed it this morning (and I'm betting I am not the only one!).  So from the bottom of my heart, thank you for sharing it.

Wummick...You've come SO far!  From a 12-year dance with this drug to 12.5mg daily is quite a huge amount of progress!  Focus on how far you've come.  You have made it to the jumping off point.  WD from 12.5 might not be as tough, but for some, it may be quite uncomfortable.  As I've learned from reading everyone's experiences here, there is just no way to predict how you'll feel.  You can always try jumping off from 12.5 if you feel up to it and want to.  Or you can split the quarter into eights, and so on.

Either way, you are almost there.  And you did a QUICK taper.  Wow!!

Awesome, warriors.  Keep fighting.  I am off to do some work this morning but will check back when I can and see how everyone is doing.

lots of love,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by JG525, Feb 23, 2010
Hi everyone-  Sorry for not checking in.  I was busy at home and had a virus on my work computer.  Still sober.  I've dropped my prozac to 10mg and I've been dropping my klonopin by .25mg per week and got to 1mg this week.  About two days later, I was really sick with what I thought was a cold, runny nose and sneezing until I felt sick.  I'm thinking it was withdrawal, although I guess it could have been allergies.  I was better the next day though.  Who knows?  Always something fun to deal with!  Otherwise, I've been feeling great!

4leef- When I get to it, I'll have to talk to you about your caffeine withdrawal strategies.  I'm Jewish too by the way, although non-practicing and not much of a believer in "God" as it would be considered by religion.  Doesn't mean there is nothing to learn from religion.  I do enjoy Jung.

Pat- Hang in there! I'm sorry you're struggling.  Just know it's better on the other side.

Jenny

Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 23, 2010
PatPat!  You are doing so well and you should be so proud of yourself for not adjusting your taper as you travel.  Big cyber hug from me.

Wummick ( what is a wummick anyways LOL) - you are doing fabulous as well. I hope you are feeling good about yourself - what an accomplishment after so many years on Tramadol - I had no idea that this drug has been around that long.  Surprised that it is still considered a non-addicting drug.  There has got to be thousands of people out there that have gone thru this hell and lived to talk about it.  How come there isn't a "buzz" in the medical community?

I am on day 23 today and still feel like my brain is surrounded by peanut butter.  Why is my brain like this again FMN and 4leef?? Thankfully, I have not had a bout with depression since I quit - but this brain thing is driving me crazy!  I'm taking the recommended vitamins.  FMN - you are soooo right when you describe this has being brain damaged.  I feel like part of my brain is still sleeping and I don't know how to wake it up.  I have gained weight because I have been craving sugar/sweets and I have been drinking more caffeine than I ever have in my life.  Any advice for me?

Susan the fatty (just saying how I feel today)  LOL

Great day to everyone!!!

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 23, 2010
So far feeling pretty good--a little anxiety, but working out in the yard seemed to help. The Kratom has kept away the blues and energy levels are up, but not as much as with trams. Mellowing out a bit now after taking about 2.5 grams total. The real test will be tonight when I sleep, take some Tylenol if I need it. Best wishes to everyone.

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by forget_me_not, Feb 23, 2010
Susan....those Carb Cravings are wicked!  I had them too.  Bad.  I mean, one night I got up at 3am and made a giant bowl of pasta because I was about to go nuts!  In the middle of the night.  Never happened before in my life. Crazy Carb Cravings.  That's what I called them.  Because if I didn't get some carbs, I was going to go Crazy.

5-htp helped with this.  To make a long story short, the carb cravings are also serotonin-related, most likely.  When we quit trams, our serotonin level drops (thus the depression, insomnia, etc.).  When we eat foods high in carbohydrates, our blood insulin levels rise, which clears many amino acids out of our bloodstream.  This increases the level of tryptophan, which is converted to 5-hydroxytryptophan (aka 5-htp), which crosses the blood-brain barrier and turns into serotonin.  So it's our body's way of compensating, of increasing serotonin.  The 5-htp will quell the carb cravings.  But just be careful with it.  If it's taken with anything else that increases serotonin you can have a bad reaction.  Other drugs that increase it include ADs, Cipro, Imitrex, MAOIs, etc.  I was drug-free, so it was safe and viable for me.

Chess, love to you, dear.  Distraction can be our Best Friend.  Stay busy, stay present in the moment, knowing this will pass in its time.  You're going to get through it, and when you do, you'll feel much, much better.

love to all,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 23, 2010
sdb- 25 mg taper is what chess has been doing (I think) even 12.5 ---it's ok as long as you can stick to your program...even doing a dose every other day at the end, if you can, will lessen things, I think...more gradual=less wicked w/d at the end....I am sure you can see THAT....I had to not have any around the house after quitting...at 5am- being up most of the night...reading posts...taking hot baths...restless....i might have thought taking one was a good idea.....I don't think you will have the kind of w/d like that, Hon....mine was c/t    I COULD NOT taper....I tried and the silliest excuses came up to take more for a day because my mom was sick or work was hard or I was too tired or it was too hard....I'll do it LATER...like, when things are calmed down...trouble is.....it truly is always something.....(in my world)  

It becomes easier and easier to see how Tram 'chipped away' at my life, the longer I look... first came the glow, then the blow...I became hypersensitive, self critical (why? I had a secret...of sorts)...i felt restless inside...agitated sometimes
course initially I got a lot done and slept well...those things waned but I STILL kept running the drug and wanting to 'up things' to achieve the same effect.....

I am MUCH calmer inside....I perceive in a healthier way....(not so personal....geez!)
embarrassing to think of some of my behavior.....
ok ALL -----be well and stay strong
you are LOVED!!!

go chess!
go bode!

love to all


Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 23, 2010
Thanks Clover, fmn, yes about 25 mg...I still have a half and a quarter tab left (25 mg and 12.5 mg) , but want to see if I can do without. Kratom is considered to be a mild opiate with different action than trams (if my chemistry is correct ha, ha). Seems to help, and no tram fog, which I like. Tomorrow, will try to stay with just coffee and Tylenol.  Will see how sleep goes tonight, then I'll know for sure. Thanks for all you support.

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by forget_me_not, Feb 23, 2010
Pharma, I need some pharmacist expertise!  I am taking Wellbutrin and have come down with a really bad case of bronchitis.  I can't stop coughing and it's very painful.  Yuk.

I have cough syrup that contains dextromethorphan HBr, 15mg per teaspoon.  Is this safe to take with Wellbutrin?  I don't want to get a bad interaction.

healing wishes, warriors.

love,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by mandyloop, Feb 23, 2010
Hello all,
Great posts!!
im down to two days completely off and a couple today ( t's) 50s because um why again? Like I said psycholoically Im scared. I am new and trying to just start over from before it is very much psychological now. On, off. One day Im strong and a very deep believer, next day, I talk to my ex-husband or dont like what happens at work and I feel sorry for myself, and I go off the pills again and go through sweats, I dont want to be here. And know Im having a hard time being ready, but I think I will keep working on it in a over all, un-linear sense--because the healing and psychological piece is much worse and harder for me I have an extremely fast metabolism, and just need to get a straight f-ing week to start to feel better. Its so hard. I will not give up, thanks for listeninMandy,
By the way Like some others I had to change my name to re-log on any one else have this lately?/

Avatar universal
by mandyloop, Feb 23, 2010
PS,
I finally found a new NA meeting I can deal with, too. I found one that has a person who is getting me a book which I have heard people say may help.
Vitamin B do you guys think this helps? I fond that Iron supplements helped me too, with energy and such I was nearly anemic the last time I went off this stuff. Due to numbing myself I didnt notice I was, so underweight, 92 lbs, and 5.4 and dehydrated, and anemic, what a combo. I am up to 100, and trying to get more protien and Iron, and Vitamin D...
M

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 23, 2010
Welcome Mandy! you are finding your way out.....keep posting and reading here...this is a healing place

....plunge into the heat of battle and keep your heart at the lotus feet of the Lord
                               B. Gita

hoping all good rest

STAY STRONG AND KNOW THAT YOU ARE LOVE..........
yes, you are

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by AmyLL, Feb 23, 2010
Hey everyone....
I've been lurking here for a few weeks now, and I finally feel brave enough to post. I've been dancing with Trams for years now (I'm 21), and am so tired of it all...I'm tired of the ups and downs, of the panic/fear when its refill time and wondering if this will finally be the time I'm cut off, tired of not being ME. I was first prescribed these hellish pills when I was 15 years old and experiencing joint bleeds due to a bleeding disorder, horrible menstrual cramps and headaches - it was the equivalent of my OTC pain reliever. I have a true allergy to acetaminophen, and can't take NSAIDS due to said bleeding problems, so this was a Godsend.

For a few years, things were fine...I only took 'em when I needed to, but soon I realized they made me 'happy'. I was more confident, talkative, energized. I wanted to do things and be someone. So I started taking some before I had to go to work, since it made time go by quickly. And then I took them before I knew I had a meeting, or when I was going out with friends. Then I was taking them every morning when I woke up to just get out of bed. At this point I knew I had a problem, but was too scared of W/D's to stop. And thus, for the past 3 years, I've battled with this. At my worst I was taking 400/450 milligrams a day (last summer), but have since weened myself down to 200/250 daily.

I C/T'd once about 2 years ago due to a stomach bleed which required me to take nothing by mouth for a week...and it was the worst week of my life. I can remember laying in bed with my legs jerking, my throat throbbing and tears running down my face because my brain hurt so bad, if that makes any sense.
I don't want to go through that again...but I don't want to live like this anymore either. I want to be healthy (as possible). I've always been interested in yoga, alternative medicine, etc. I want live that lifestyle, not this one, full of fear and anger and pain. I want to be myself!

I got married 4 months ago, and I had to make sure I took my daily ultram that morning before I walked down the aisle...it sickens me now to think about it.

Now, my husband and I want to start trying to conceive, and I want my body to be in as prime condition as possible. I'm so afraid, but I want this so badly...so I'm ready. Or at least as ready as I'll ever be.

I have 5-HTP, St. Johns and Kava. I have multi - v's, potassium, l-tryrsone and b complex. I have 30 trams on this RX, and 2 refills on that, for a total of 90 left.

How do I go about doing this? I don't think I can C/T, but I want to do drag it out forever either...
Thank you for everything...you've been such a source of encouragement for me over the past couple weeks, and I'm forever in debt to you guys w/o you even knowing it. You have made me believe that I can do this.


Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 23, 2010
There is a moderate interaction between DM and wellbutrin.The wellbutrin decreases the metabolism of DM and can increase the levels in the body.I would not say it is serious .,but if worried don't take anything but fluids.
I just stopped in to see how everyone is doing and back to the Oplympics.

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by AmyLL, Feb 23, 2010
Pharma - what state are you in? I'm a CPht in MD, as well as a pharmacy student. It gets to me when doctors prescribe ultram and tell their patients 'oh, its just like super Tylenol, not addictive at all!'. the pharmacists i work with are the same way...I wish I could say something to them so badly sometimes, just so they know what they are getting into. Sadly, I've seen people who are getting the stuff earlier and earlier every month, and I know they are on the same slope I am...ortho-McNeil should be ashamed of themselves for producing this drug.

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by forget_me_not, Feb 23, 2010
Mandy, your story brings back so many memories of my own journey out of the jaws of death.  Yes.  I remember going to the doctor's office once, in May 2008, for a swollen neck and fever.  I had a sick thyroid, but that wasn't all.  5'5", 96lbs, B12 level dangerously low, extreme iron deficiency, low red blood cell count.  I was death on legs.  Because, see, during the Tramadol Years, the strangest thing happened to me.  Taking enough tramadol to not be sick sort of trumped every other priority in my life.  So such trivial matters as eating, sleeping, getting treated when I had the flu, and so on -- well, those things were mere nuisances that fell by the wayside.  I didn't eat.  I ate crackers and chips to stay alive.  And drank Coke to stay awake because I didn't sleep.

Now I'm up to about 105 or so, and I feel much better.  Upon quitting tramadol I actually found that I wanted to eat healthy foods.  Wholesome foods.  And I cared that my B12 and iron levels were bottom of the barrel and I wanted to fix it.  The psychoemotional issues...those were another story.  I just wanted my life to get better in that respect.  And it did, in general.  But the emotions...Wow.  It was like the ceiling was blown off of my emotions.  There was no safety valve.  Anything could set me off into a tailspin of sadness, crying, happiness, anger.  Anger.  Whew.  The anger was, and still is, hard.  Really hard.  

Tramadol was my emotional buffer.  It was the padding that kept me from having to hit the walls when I spun out.  Now the padding is gone but the walls are still there.  And it gets difficult at times.  Once again, I have to pitch Yoga as a lifesaver in this respect.  It has helped me, more than anything has, to get a handle on my emotions.  To separate myself from my circumstances, and to live less from a "reactive" place and more from a mindful place.  I am mindful because Yoga has helped me learn that skill.  It was one that, apparently, I didn't learn adequately when I should have.  If I did, tramadol helped me unlearn it.

Rest assured, though...it gets better.  The emotions are all over the place during the first weeks off this drug.  Allow yourself a little extra space, if you can, to get familiar with your responses.  Don't be too hard on yourself.  Self-judgment leads to a lot of guilt, which won't help you at all in this process of healing.  

Give yourself room to grow.  All the strange places will fill in, and they will be familiar to you when they do.  We are here with you, and will help in any way we can.  It's all in the healing.

lots of love to all tonight.  
~fmn

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by Wummick, Feb 23, 2010
My first 24 hours without. I'm feeling okay-way spaced out but with a strong resolve. My last dose last night of 12.5 might have been my last-but I'm not declaring any victory for a while. I moved my Doctor appt. from next Monday to this Thursday cause I want to get the ball ROLLING! The doctor said he would have a non addictive sleep aid for me but I would have to tough out the emotional roller coaster for several weeks at least. I think I'm ready to start the process of finding out what just me feels like for the first time in years. I'm definitely gonna get on the old Stairmaster tonight-I have to say it really helps like nothing else.

I Looked up the dates, and my taper from 250mgs to zero (as of tonight) took almost exactly a month. I started it on January 25th. Dropping from 250 to 150 was actually pretty easy, but below 100mg's  my WD's really started to kick in. That's was has taken the longest time, almost 3 weeks to taper from 100mg's.  Based on what I've been feeling I couldn't imagine how hard cold turkey must be-especially from higher doses.

I'm feeling semi-pleased with myself tonight, even if I am whacked out. 24 hours and counting. I know I'll make it through tonight...a little concerned about tomorrow...but as they say  "baby steps" -eh?

Peace to you all, Jason.   (Wummick was my nickname in grade school!)


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by forget_me_not, Feb 23, 2010
Thanks, Pharma. I'll stick with some pomegranate juice and tough it out.

Amy, Welcome!  You're in a good place.  There is so much helpful info here.  Reading back through Emily's journals, you'll unearth stories that remind you a lot of your own.  You'll also find tips and supplements and, most of all, lots of encouragement.  You're one of a few members here who are hoping to conceive in the near future, and I commend you for your efforts to get in tip-top shape, including losing the tramadol.  It's such a bad, bad drug.

I share your feelings about the misapplication of this stuff. I was told it was a safe, non-habit forming alternative to opiates when I sprained my wrist four years ago.  That was the beginning of the hardest thing I have ever done (living with tramadol addiction).

Getting off this poison is hard.  But you CAN do it.

Take heart...many of us have been right where you are.  We understand the fear.  We totally understand, and we will support you 1000%, answer any questions we can (and there's almost always somebody here who can!).  We'll help you through anything and everything you experience.  Just stay with us and talk to us.  If you are going through it, talk about it.  That can be very therapeutic.

We even have one of the kindest, most helpful pharmacists on the planet here!  Pharma, you're a gem.

Wummick, Jason...So good to hear you sounding positive!  That will help you tremendously.  And yes, physical exercise, as much as you can, will help, too.  You are really doing well, and I'm so glad to hear from you.

OK, I'm going to lie down and cough.  

lots of love,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by mandyloop, Feb 24, 2010
Thanks so much,
Tomorrow Im going off again, I threw a bunch out, ( again ) and am going to get my NA book tomorrow. I have like 50 and 1/2 ( um, what? ) a pill n a half. For the am only if Im in need --basically Ive decided tomotrrow is my last day again. Second time. Thanks everyone. Wish me luck, I know its different everytime. Forget me not, thanks, I really do know I took on too much right after getting off all of it. I like your saying, ( let myself grow" and "things will fill in" I have had to really --like you say ajust to my responses, what a great way to put it!! ( I do think Ive also, ( know I have) had to adjust to some people Im around to. So I ( "CAN" ) try to adjust to my responses. There were abusively pushy people around me. Anxious people. Ive had to learn to say, " hey, how about tomorrow/" No more ambushing my emotions. I have had to protect my investment--and it gets tough at times. Very.
Thanks.
Ill post tomorrow and tell you where I am.
Mandy

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 24, 2010
Slept about an hour less than usual last night, took half a Tylenol and half ibuprofen. No restless legs, woke up much less cloudy than usual. No depression, but not usually prone to that anyway. About 48 hours tram-free. Have to go out, taking 60 mg of coenzyme q-10, and 12.5 mg DHEA, and half an ibuprofen (for muscle soreness from pulling vines yesterday ha, ha). About to do my neck exercises and ab crunches. I'm convinced exercise is the key here. If things get hairy later, I'll make a cup of Kratom tea, but my aim is to not use anything. If there are no restless legs tonight, I know I'm home free.

Never realized that trams left such a 'cloud hangover.' Better to treat short term pain with codeine I think. The one advantage trams have is that they are long acting, and perhaps why the are insidiously addicting as well. I think as much as anything else, it's the cloud hangover that makes you reach for the bottle again, making occasional short-term use difficult. I am fortunate because more than 1 tab causes a mild serotonin flood in me (why I get anxious and agitated), which I HATE! So this precludes me ever being a heavy user. Unfortunately, my dad is addicted and doesn't even know it. But, hey, he's 80+ years old and seems to like the buzz of his 1 tab a day habit, and W/D would probably do him more harm than good at this stage. He's not in the best of health as it is.

For those of you who are down to a half or quarter tablet, I think you'll handle w/d just fine. It may be that the fear of W/D at that stage is worse than the W/D itself.

That's enough rambling for today.

Be well all and hang in there...there is light at the end of the tunnel!

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 24, 2010
Amy..I live in Ontario,Canada.I warn every patient who gets tramadol about the dangers of addiction and tolerance.I tell them just because this drug is not classified as a narcotic,it really is and has properties over and above the narcs.I always warn about the antidepressant properties.Most people choose to try it anyways,because they have tried other things and want to try it.The only thing that stops anyone is if the drug plan will not pay for it.The doctors still think it is just a glorified tylenol and do not seem to know that it is so bad.The only time that the doctor will change the Rx is if there is an interaction.Tramadol is being touted as a great drug for post surgery pain and the surgeons are staring to use it now.
I warn everyone emphatically about it,but it is still the patient's choice.If someone wants their Rx early,I warn them again and they have to wait till it is due.However,it still is hard to stop even at regular doses of even 200mg/day.
I have also told many doctors about its properties,but they still choose to prescribe it.

Avatar universal
by JG525, Feb 24, 2010
Hi Amy- I relate to your story because I also walked down the aisle on tramadol and quit in order to get ready for pregnancy.  Now, I've gotten off Effexor too and I'm working on Klonopin, which I take at night.  You can do this and you will need to for a baby.  Remember, if you suffer from depression afterwards, you can always try prozac, which most doctors would allow during pregnancy if needed.  I'm on it now, but tapering off to try without.

Do you still have the issues from bleeding and need a pain reliever?  If so, you probably want to talk to your doctor about the problem and see if there are alternatives.  The only way they can know this is addictive is for people to tell them.  I was honest with my doctor and he listened.  His response was something to the effect of what is his choice?  Meaning he'd rather give tramadol than vicodin.  It's a valid point.

Anyway, you can taper a little and then just expect a week or two of not feeling well.  You'll be okay!

Jenny

Avatar universal
by pharma9, Feb 24, 2010
Amy...Are you in chronic pain or does your pain come and go?If it is short term,I guess the only option for you apart from tramadol is an opiate which of course is addicting.But if taken responsibly and short term will be effective with less withdrawal than trams.I believe that the withdrawal form the antidepressant property of tramadol is the most difficult part,the opiate withdrawal is not as long.
The medical field is not eager to give up tramadol because it supposedly is non addicting and can be used in situations like yours.With the bleeding problem NSAIDS are not good and a true allergy to tylenol leaves no option but opiates or other means for pain relief.Rubs,patches heat TENS,these are the only things left.Even extensive application of xylocaine can cause heart arrthmias,but small applications are probably OK.
Maybe some homeopathic drugs may give pain relief.
Sometimes muscle relaxants help,but usually not as well without the NSAID or tylenol.

Avatar universal
by howcouldiknow88, Feb 24, 2010
Hey, guys. Don't remember the last time I was on here. It may have been late January? Still going!!! I feel out of place at times. And a craving for the "blanket" here and there but I have learned how to manage those thoughts.
So glad to see some new faces since my last log in. If any of you are going through WD...it does end. I promise you that. The first day was the worst for me. You will notice that uncomfortable feeling gets weaker every day. It seems as though it'll never go away...but it does! And you will find a new high in yourself for winning the battle.

Avatar universal
by howcouldiknow88, Feb 24, 2010
I should also mention this was my first birthday without tram since 2003. Birthday was February 13th. Turned 22 haha. Maybe I can make it this whole year without tram. This is something I couldn't comprehend same time last year, but now it makes perfect sense. :D

Avatar universal
by mandyloop, Feb 24, 2010
Hi,
First day tapering off, had 1/2 tab, and Im off. Compared to the 5 yesterday, I feel odd. But im done, no more. This is my second try off t. And I agree its longer acting and worse than any other opiate. those seem to flush out alot sooner. Less withdrawels at all. So fyi if you have to take something, id choose that for a day or two not the Ultram!!!
Wish me luck.
So far ok, Just really nervous,... Also some emotions and going back home Ive been with afriend he has been helping me but now Im going home. Im on my own after today. Ill be back tho..
Mandy

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 24, 2010
howcouldI- did you ever get started on Effexor? I remember you mentioning that possibility

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by AmyLL, Feb 24, 2010
My pain comes and goes depending on whats going on...I do get joint bleeds often, which are incredibly painful, as well menstrual problems (female hemophiliac = monthly hell) as other mishaps I tend to find my klutzy self in ;-). At this point though, I'm willing to suffer as needed w/o RX's, as I've always refused to take 'narcotics' unless I am inpatient because of the potential addiction (a lot of hemophiliacs end up addicts, believe it or not). My doctor has always comended me on being so strong about it....HA! If only he knew this little miracle pill has been my downfall. He doesn't believe the addiction potential, but he has expressed concern about my taking it daily.

I sat down last night and came up with a plan for a rather quick taper - aprox 30 days. I'm doing 4 pills today, and will do  so tomorrow. I'm going to cut my dosage by 1/2 a pill every 2-3 days until I get down to 1.5 pills, then I am going to reduce it by quarters. By goal is by Easter (april 4th), I'll be free.  

I know I'm looking at a month of hell...but I'm working out a schedule of the herbal remedies I mentioned above, along with dosages of phenergan, bentyl and DXM (Delsym) as needed. I know I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place because there will be times when I do need pain relief, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. As long as I can make it 30 days w/o hospitalizations (and ultram relapses), I'll be able to come up with a plan when I'm not in my 'tram' fog.

I know my husband is suspicious that I take it for other reasons besides pain...but, he won't say anything, because he's seen me in pain before, and he can't stand it. I'm going to talk to him and let him know that I'm weening myself off of this (not sure if I can say the word 'addicted' out loud yet) and for him to be patient with me.

Thanks so much for the support, everyone. I hope you can bear with me for the next couple months!

Avatar universal
by JG525, Feb 24, 2010
Amy- That taper sounds like a good plan.  That's slower than I went and I was okay.  You might get some pain as you withdraw and some of that pain may disappear afterwards.  That's how it was for many of us with back issues or joint pain.  Not sure it will work that way with your health issues though.

I just told people that I felt like I'd become too dependent on tramadol and that I wanted to stop.  Most people totally understand even if they don't get it.  Definitely a good idea that you're avoiding narcotics.  Gosh, you don't have a lot of options for relief.  

Hang in there! It can definitely be done.

Jenny

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by AmyLL, Feb 24, 2010
I have a question for all of you...by becoming so dependent on this during my 'developmental' years, have I likely created permanent problems with my brain & body? Am I going to have a harder time coming off of this compared to someone, who say, was on it in their 30's? I've never been on any time of AD, besides the St. John, but I know the tram in and of itself is one. Am I ever going to recover my normal pain tolerance, emotional bearing, etc?

The breaking point for me getting of this stuff is that my short term memory is shot...and because of that, so is my long term. I have the hardest time remembering something that someone may have just said to me, or events from earlier in the day. It scares my husband and he's made comments about wanting me to see a neurologist...but I know its the ultram. Will I ever get my memory back?

I want to be able to have a child and remember every moment of his/her life, and to feel every bit of happiness and sadness that comes along with it. I want this poison out of my body!!!!!!

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by AmyLL, Feb 24, 2010
That's a good way of putting it, JG52 - too dependent. At least it sounds politically correct ;-)

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by AmyLL, Feb 24, 2010
Mandy, you and I can do this together!!! Just be strong, and remember...there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

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by forget_me_not, Feb 24, 2010
Amy,

You can and will recover brain "function" once the supply stops.  If you will look back over my journals and many others here, you'll find people who had/have the exact same concern that you have.  I do believe it is possible that substances such as tramadol, because they affect the emotional center of our brain in powerful ways, can encourage changes in our patterns of responding to stress.  And also memory.  I've struggled so with memory.  The best example I can share is that I consistently had to carry a grocery list, even if there were only TWO items I needed.  I couldn't remember two things at the grocery, even if there were nothing else pressing on my memory!  And stress exacerbated it significantly.

I placed post-it notes on my mirror, on the computer monitor, on my speedometer in the car.  I put reminders everywhere so I wouldn't forget to do important things.  And I still forgot some things.  Just part of the trip.  It gets better.

Laughter, when possible, is invaluable.  Laugh at yourself.  It's all going to be OK.  Tell yourself that, and tell yourself often.

I'm reading an excellent book entitled "Mindsight", by Daniel Siegel.  It has been very encouraging for me in the context of my fear of tramadol-induced brain damage.  It has made me feel much more encouraged and certain that full recovery (even if we didn't go through all the developmental stages pre-tramadol) is not only possible, but likely, if we help train our brains.  Neuroplasticity is a source of miraculous hope.

You have an excellent motivation in wanting to not miss out on your child's early years.  Hold tight to that determination.  You'll get there.  

Have you had your B12 level checked?  If low, that can also contribute to memory issues.

peace, warriors.

~fmn

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by Wummick, Feb 24, 2010
Day 2 on zero trams and doing okay. In fact, I've felt pretty good today-perhaps because I was so worried about WD symptoms that never showed up. The taper really worked-30 days almost to the day. Tonight I'm dumping half a bottle down the drain in ceremony. At this point getting a new RX filled would be quite a task-so I figure it's a good idea, and symbolic as well. I'm done. The taper was not fun, for sure, and each notch down made me feel pretty bad for a few days, but it was tolerable-nothing that distraction and exercise couldn't help with. My sleep is still not great, but not horrible either like it was in the beginning of this process. I woke up a few times last night, but managed to get about 6 hours in without Xanax or even ibuprofen. That was encouraging. I had a pretty wacky dream last night about interviewing the Korean Olympic Skater as a reporter and woke up giggling. My stairmaster has become my best friend because it definitely ups the endorphines and seems to relieve anxiety better than anything else I can do.

For those of you who are afraid I offer you this encouragement: I took Tramadol for 12 years-daily for the last 10. The last two years I needed between 250mg's -300mg's to feel "right" and to get the buzz that we all know so well. At the 250mg and above level I started to get "Brain-Zaps" and dizzy spells which apparently are mini seizures and I knew I had to stop. It's taken almost a year to get the courage, but after spilling the beans to my current Doctor, my wife, my friends etc. there was no turning back. 30 days may seem like a long time, but after ten years I'm still amazed to be tram free today and not feeling horrible. You CAN do this!! I know I have work to do, on myself, my habits, my health-lots to do. But I'm done with Tramadol. That's it.

And tonight I feel okay. Not perfect, but not bad. Now time to get on that stairmaster!

Peace and good wishes to all of you-Jason.

Avatar universal
by mandyloop, Feb 24, 2010
Thanks Amy!!
My brother gave me a tab of vic in case I needed it. He thought I went off too fast.This is some of the thing, these types of pills are always around.
I felty ok today, until I did a super hard run, to get ready for a big competition this saterday. I also want to have a baby and am mending a relationship with my sig other to do so. I to want to remember all, of it. Even if its hard. I got really in pain after my work out, I mean I do triathalons, so I was in pain, and I thought --maybe Im pushing myself too hard, I had to run around and realize if Im going to get a really significant time off this Crud, and get my life back I may need to take time to heal and that this is my competative season, and I am in serious agony after work outs, which makes me think my tolerance is down. I refuse to not run, jump, bike and race, so I guess I have to learn to DEAL WITH THE AFTER PAIN,  I want to have a family too!!!
I know these emotions are bubbling up too because Im going off this.
Thx,
Amy we will do this together!!

Avatar universal
by mandyloop, Feb 24, 2010
PS.
So tomorrow should be my actual final day off. So. Im hangin in there.
No trams tomorrow or at all!!! But I have that one v, pill in case I guess my bro thought Id fall over. Or.
Mandy
For me its a guilt, and shame, and psychological battle now.
Very strong guilt.

Avatar universal
by howcouldiknow88, Feb 24, 2010
4leef, I have not started Effexor or any other AD yet.

Amy, I had the same question as you. I started tram when I was 15 and just recently got off of it nearly 7 years later. I also noticed memory problems. I'm still struggling with that aspect even though I've been clean since December. I do feel that short term memory is getting better. Tram started to have an effect on my memory about 2 years into it I think. We are in the same boat. I'm not sure if we will be aflicted any worse than the older users, so I can't really answer your question. Just know that you are not alone at being a 20-something tram dependent. My whole high school career was spent on the buzz, and then days of hellish withdrawal when running out early. I usually skipped school if I didn't have the tram. I thought I was alone in this. Now that I'm sober I look back and realize tram held me back. Almost 4 years out of high school now and still standing still, but I'm recovering and I really plan to make something of my life. You can do this! Message me sometime, friend.

Avatar universal
by howcouldiknow88, Feb 25, 2010
Also, amy, my daughter was a big influence on becoming tram free. :-) She is 6 months old now. I feel so good to be tram free for her. And myself. And my fiance. She was very concerned about my tramadol use. She did understand, though. That I had been on the drug since my early teens. She has been my main anchor of support, along with you guys. Thanks so much.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 25, 2010
Congrats on the new baby, how. 3 days tram free now. Yesterday was a bit difficult. Sneezing and runny nose, still not too bad. Took a short nap, felt better. Last night took only Tylenol, woke up with restless legs, but no so bad I couldn't get back to sleep again. No sneezing today, so hopefully it gets better from here. Spirits okay, and my head is much clearer. Can't drink Kratom tea before bed because of the stimulating affect, but rather not depend on any drug.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 25, 2010
For those of you having a difficult time with W/D, Kratom tea might really be helpful. A teaspoon (about 2 grams) of good herb with 250 mg of crushed vitamin-c takes away all my W/D symptoms. The downside: tastes terrible, but not near as bad as trams, lol. Perhaps another useful weapon in the arsenal to get us over the worst hump.

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 25, 2010
Hi Kids----well, you know. Some of us older users weren't necessarily on Trams in our teen years...BUT we might have been on a variety of other drugs and alcohol........that was MY story, anyway. The good news is the human body has an amazing ability for rejuvenation ---you will be fine, how and amy
The developemental things I 'missed' in adolescence plagued me more than a physical insult from drug/etoh use. The issues around maturity and perception were my biggest problems.
   nice work chess!  
Brandy- hope you are faring well, today. We are here for you! just remember 95% of the people in the world are addicted to SOMETHING...it is part of the 'human condition' my mom, in addition to being a high functioning alcoholic was also addicted to nicotine, caffeine, work and worrying. I MEAN addicted to worrying.

I feel so much better these days. I love the feeling of authenticity, freedom, resonance with my self.
you guys are great!
be well and know
that you are Loved!!

Avatar universal
by sandia66, Feb 25, 2010
4leef - as always - you are correct! There is a high percentage of human beings that are addicted and or have an addictive personality.  I guess only a few of these addictions are considered to be "shameful" -smoking, coffee, alcohol, food - all of these are socially acceptable.  I think it would be easier for some of us, like myself, to come clean about our addiction to Tramadol and opiates if there wasn't such a negative stereotype of drug users.  I don't want to be compared with those poor souls on the streets - im better than that right?  I was able to function and hide my dirty little secret.  Wow what an ego I have about this.

Enough about me - why is sneezing one of the symptoms of withdrawal?  I keep forgetting to ask and I remember sneezing like crazy during the first two weeks.

Wummick (Jason) - you are a very good example of the tapering method.  Unfortunately, I had to taper way to quickly because I was on the fast track of pill popping and getting ready to run out a week or two earlier than I was supposed to.  I know my symptoms could have been a lot worse if I hadn't been able to do my taper method.  Good for you and keep on keeping on.

Great Evening Everbody and Stay Strong- Remember You are a Warrior Now!!!!

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Feb 25, 2010
I don't know why sneezing is a symptom of w/d but mine were monster sneezes-- and frequent! also watery eyes were a problem. yawning? how about the yawning...the body aches, stomach grinding, restless legs....insomnia....full body ...every cell cryin' for the stuff....ewww!
.
Mandy- the pain during w/d is NOT the underlying pain you will come to deal with after things calm down. Pain is VERY ACCENTUATED during w/d. Even on Tram my pain became accentuated.....thats how I knew it was time for my dose....
what it REALLY was was a low level w/d....so, be patient and don't freak out thinking the rangling full body pain in w/d is yours....I just pictured all those opiate receptors throwing a tantrum like big babies and ringing the bell of pain to get more drug......they'll calm down and take a nap in a week to 10 days, Hon
meanwhile staying active is important...however I have a confession to make...Tram helped me push way beyond my envelope in yoga....and I LIKED IT....so I am getting used to a practice that is not enhanced in this way...sometimes I struggle with this...but what I am doing now feels more true

Sandia- Yeah, I hear you about the 'ego' thing. maybe those guys and gals peeing their pants on the street are more honest, somehow, than me...I get to walk around addicted and feel like a fraud...a phony....nothing authentic, here.....but, truth be told I did a lot of things that were pretty ok WHILE I was addicted....I just want all my parts to resonate truly....and this feels so much better--- not to be bound to the drug....it was taking over my thoughts and interfering with my experience..I was becoming a slave to the little whites......

Nice Going chess and Jason!!!!
where is Pat?
Bode- how is your week, girl
hi pharma and Jen

hoping you all have a restful, peaceful evening and sleep
Stay Strong and know that You are Loved!

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by AmyLL, Feb 25, 2010
thanks for the support and encouragement you guys. I actually went and changed my taper method yesterday, instead of doing 4 pills (200 mg) yesterday, I went and did 3.5 (150). I figured, I've been jumping between 250/200 a day for weeks now...might as well get started on this thing! I'm doing ok...I've noticed a deep throbbing in my feet today (I suppose 10 hours on 'em has something to do with that, though!) and a constant yawning. My eyes are watering and my nose is somewhat stuffed up...I took a 12 hour sudafed and that helped some. I guess it's the beginning of a month long flu!
I was reading through some of the old forums last night, and something someone said made this whole mess finally became 'real' to me. They had mentioned the 'trama-panic', how when someone would ring the doorbell or call you you would avoid it...and it hit me - i've done the same thing for the past 2 years, ESPECIALLY when I was on my 400mg daily doses. I would want to talk to them, but at the same time, I wanted them to go away and just leave be me in my fog...like how dare they interrupt my day? I never knew that was the tram that was making me anti-social towards the end...how much of my life its taken away is amazing. But no more!!!!
Forget-me-not: I have that book on hold at the library, and just picked up a copy of 'yoga for depression' that I saw recommended here. I also have a book on addiction healing...I have it hidden in my closet for now. One day soon I hope I'll be strong enough you say the words out loud to my husband.
Mandy: the last time I C/T on tram, I was getting 30 mgs of codeine IV'd and I thought that it didn't touch a thing. It made my life bearable, but the withdrawals were so bad...I can only imagine how much worse it would have been if I hadn't been on the codeine. Don't feel guilty about taking the vic if you need too...it's all in baby steps, and if it gets to the point where you think you have to, then you've obviously reached the moment when you need 'other' help. As for the exercise...wow...a triathlon! You go girl! I could never do something like that! I remember how when I first started Tram, how it would make it easier for me to work out, longer and harder since I didn't "feel" anything. Now, the tram has it were I don't want to get out of bed, much less work out.
HowcouldI: congrats on the little one! It's nice to know that I'm not the youngest here...sometimes I feel like people would think 'oh, it's just a typical teenage drug habit' if I were to talk about it...but you and I know better, I suppose. Thanks for being there - I think as the days go on, I will definitely be taking you up on your message to talk. I actually would do the same thing in high school (despite being homeschooled)...if I didn't have any trams, I didn't feel like doing anything that day. I wouldn't go out with friends. My whole life EVOLVED around these stupid little pills, counting them, scheduling them around events, always having them with me...it was pathetic.
Wummick: I can't imagine 12 years...I'm so proud of you for accomplishing what you did in a month, and I will remember you whenever I feel like I want to give up...because you did in the same time frame as me...and had a longer battle. Thanks for letting me know that it IS possible.
Chessgame: I don't have access to any Katom around here, but I do have Kava. Do you think it's similar in its effects with easing withdrawal?

The rest of you...just you being here, together in this forum, gives me hope. You guys are proof there is a light at the end of the tunnel, a life after these pills. Thank you.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 26, 2010
"Effects of kavalactones include mild sedation, a slight numbing of the gums and mouth, and vivid dreams. Kava has been reported to improve cognitive performance and promote a cheerful mood.[5] Muscle relaxant, anaesthetic, anticonvulsive and anxiolytic effects are thought to result from direct interactions of kavalactones with voltage-gated ion channels.[6] Research currently suggests that kavalactones potentiate GABAA activity but do not alter levels of dopamine and serotonin in the CNS.[7] Heavy, long-term kava use does not cause any reduction of ability in saccade and cognitive tests but is associated with elevated liver enzymes."

--It very well could help, Amy, so don't hesitate to try it, just remember it's to get you over the hump, and definitely don't want to use it regularly, long term.

"Kratom is currently being researched for its potential use in the treatment of addiction to, and withdrawal from, opiates. While this has been a known home remedy for a long time, its efficacy has recently been taken more seriously as a possible treatment for issues surrounding opiate abuse. However, the concurrent risks are not well known. Early research seems to indicate that the alkaloids in Kratom affect the same areas and receptors of the brain as many opiate based compounds, and are effective in replacing opiates during withdrawal. Research continues into these potentially useful alkaloids."

--It absolutely helped me get over the worst hump with Tramadol. A teaspoonful of fine powder in a cup with about 250 mg of crushed vitamin c worked great for me, without any unwanted side effects. Stir it frequently to keep the herb suspended, and sip slowly. The stimulant affect replaces the Tram pick me up nicely, and gets you through the worst part of W/D. Just be warned that it doesn't taste too good.  According to Wiki,  Kratom is no more addictive than coffee when used long term, so probably prudent to quit once you're through the worst of Tram W/D.

A good source with quick delivery is Misty Mountain Herbals, and it's not too expensive. Each person is different, but Kratom was invaluable to me. 4 days tram free now, going on 5, no restless legs at all last night, and cautiously optimistic that I'm home free. Do not need any tea today.

Good luck to you, Amy. Keep trying and I'm sure you'll win.

Best regards to all the other tram warriors here, and happy Friday!

Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Feb 26, 2010
Hi everyone,
Welcome new people!  We are here for you!!

Today: I am drug free for 2 full days now.  I quit Trams on Jan.13th by going on Suboxone and it saved my life!  It worked for me. It's not for everyone, but it saved me!  I was able to dump all my trams down the toilet and and resume life as a mom and a teacher and an athlete, etc., without a hitch. Since Suboxone can be powerful, I started on a VERY VERY low dose and tapered down to nothing over 5 weeks.  I have had very little to NO w/d.  Some people do not agree that suboxone is the way to get off of Tramadol, but for me it was a LIFESAVER.  The only w/d I feel is a bit of sleep trouble the last two nights, but it is so managable compared to the Tramadol w/d insomnia nightmares I have been through. I tossed and turned and got 5 instead of 8 hours of sleep. Not bad at all. During the days I have been totally fine.  

I am not in any way promoting suboxone use for getting off of Trams, but I just want to say that for me, IT WORKED! And I am grateful.  Also, I have been under doctor supervision over the course of the last 5 weeks which has been wonderful.  Once a week meetings with my doctor have made this experience much more comforting.  I will continue to go to weekly meeting with my doctor to ensure a full recovery.  

I'm doing well.  Things are stable in my home.  I am looking forward to a drug free life!

I've been reading through all the posts and am pulling for everyone and am so proud of those who have stuck with a strict taper and are done(Wummick)!  Great job.  4leef, you are inspiring!  

Now, time to dig out of all this snow!

hang in there everyone.

Bode

Avatar universal
by english_mum, Feb 26, 2010
Hello All

I have accidently gone cold turkey off Tramadol - this is day 3.

I have been on it through my GP for RA for about 3 years as a replacement to co-proxomol which is no-longer precribed in the UK now.  Little did I know I had swopped one addiction for another. Incidentlly, the GP told me it wasn't addictive and was safe to use.

Anyhow, my joints are good at the moment so I decided to disopnce with the Tramadol - I was only taking 2 x 50mg daily as I found any taken later in the day kept me up all night. Trouble was if I didn't take those 2 tabs I would feel what I can only describe as 'unwell' or perhaps maybe even anxious, so I took them and felt ok again. At the back of my mind something was telling me this wasn't right so on Tuesday I went shopping not having taken any and GOD did I fell awful.  I had some in my bag, took them and half an hour later felt fine again - still though the penny hadn't quite dropped. The following day, Wednesday, I was determind not to take any - I had no pain so surely there was  no need?? By 4pm I felt dreadful - flu symptoms, sneezing, hot and cold, tiredness so went to bed early thinking that it was indeed flu.  The following morning I got up feeling awful having had hardly any sleep with awful sweats and continuous nightmares on top of the previous symptoms - still I hadn't really twigged BUT for some reason I still refused the tramadol.  

Yesterday afternoon came and still feeling awful  a nagging suspicion began - fast forward, spent several hours reading all these posts and crying when finally realising that I am in fact experiencing the typical Tramadol withdrawal symptons.  I fel so angry, so duped and so stupid too.

I am feeling slightly better today although I totally lack energy but the hot and cold feeling isn't as bad.  Had I known what was going to happen I would have cut down more gradually but having got this far and having read all your experiences and relaised what this drug really does do I am determind never to take another one, I didn't experience any "high" sypmtoms with it so luckily don't have that to hanker for.

Thank you all for your posts, they have truly helped me begin my recovery. I will certainly be letting my GP know what harm this has done and it's paracetamol alone for me now.

A very indebted poster x

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 26, 2010
Hi mum, ironic that one of the MOST addictive drugs is being touted by doctors as being non-addictive!! The tramadol effect grabs you right away, and you think--this feels great!--so why not keep taking it; it's non-addictive after all, right? WRONG! I have a sneaking suspicion that the real facts on the this drug have been masked for profit, and wouldn't be surprised if it's rescheduled. Even a 30-day supply at low doses will get you hooked. Tram might be useful for very short periods when other drugs aren't tolerated, but should not be a first choice IMV.

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by Wummick, Feb 26, 2010
No Trams-Day 4! I'm feeling okay. Yesterday was worse than the first two days but today I seem to be a little better. The oddest side effect is fairly violent sneezing attacks. I read that as one of the WD symptoms but didn't think much of it till it started to happen. Not a big deal really, but a nuisance.

Overall I'm hangin' in. The sense of accomplishment is overriding the mild discomfort. I spent the last two years pondering what life would be like not addicted to Tramadol, and now I'm here. Poured half a bottle down the drain two days ago-Buh-bye!

Peace to you all.

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by wantmyselfback, Feb 26, 2010
Hey All,

Nice to see all the newcomers here.  Welcome!  You're going to find this board to be the best medicine for getting off tramadol.  I'm somewhere past 75 days tram free and couldn't be happier.

I went from about ten 50 mg a day down to zero in one day.  If I could've tapered, I probably would have, but every time I tried to taper, I was never successful knowing I had tramadol in my possession.  Long story short, I got off the trams on a Thursday and went through the worst w/d I've ever experienced.  Just know that it does get better each day you're off of tramadol.

You're going to find a lot of people on here that can help.  Just know that time heal all wounds.  I used xanax during my w/d's to pretty much knock me off my rear-end- but you have to be careful of cross-over addictions.  Fortunately, the xanax did help me sleep through the first week.  I also supplemented with a lot of vitamins, 6-hour power shots, and hot baths.

It took some time (close to two weeks) before I started sleeping fully through the night.  

I also went on Lexapro to help counter the anxiety and depression with the withdrawal.  I must say I have had no side effects except for a fuzzy head feeling the first week or so, which have now subsided.  I plan to be on the Lexapro for another couple of months, as it seems to be working and I'm not depressed.

Another thing that really helped me get over this addiction was HONESTY.  I came clean of my secret addiction to my wife, which possibly prevented me from relapsing.  Opening up has not only done wonders for our marriage, but it also prevented me from getting my hands on more tramadol.

I did some soul-searching from my withdrawal, and have since completely rid myself of any poison.  I used to be a heavy drinker, and now have given that up as well.  One thing that worked for me was attending AA and reading "The Big Book" and "Change Your Brain, Change Your Life."  Both have given me a new outlook on life and a new philosophy for living.

Do I have cravings?  Yes, but they are short lived.  If you read "Change Your Brain, Change Your Life," you learn how to stop your impulsive thoughts dead in your tracks.  Whenever I get a craving, I just remember the terrible w/d I went through and how I never want to go through that again, and also think about what I would do to my family if I swallowed another pill.

Just know that the w/d ends.... rather quickly.  The worst of it is over within 72 hours.  If you can make it through two weeks of restlessness and interrupted sleep, you're almost through it.  I remember my two weeks out thinking how miserable I felt and had no energy.  I wondered if I would ever get the energy back that tram gave me, and lo and behold, after about two weeks I realized I started to get it all back.  I can honestly say that tramadol puts such a fog and blanket over you that you are blind to the real you.  

I couldn't be happier I've gotten off this horrific drug.  

Just hang in there.  You will get better.  You can do this! :)

Avatar universal
by jillbean76, Feb 27, 2010
Just thought I would update those of you that helped me so much last week.  I am 9 days without Tramadol and haven't looked back yet.  It has crossed my mind, but like previous posters have said, the thoughts of that withdrawal ordeal are too awful to consider.  I went from 3 50mgs a day to nothing overnight.  I took Darvocet to help with the worst times of w/d.  I had awful chills and anxious shivers like I had to move immediately and someone had taken over my body.  Like restless legs of the body!  It was awful.  I can NOT believe how much better I feel and how many side effects I was having taking the tramadol.  The fog was thick and I always have considered myself an intelligent person and finally couldn't remember simple tasks.  It was a horrible feeling.  I also have gotten the desire to workout and exercise back.  I had NO care for exercise while I was on tramadol which was odd for me.  (others have shared this feeling too)  Anyway, just wanted to say thank you and give encouragement to others going through w/d right now.  I'm glad I did cold turkey b/c I didn't have the self restraint to do tapering.  I was miserable during cold turkey though, but I also hated the tramadol for making me feel that bad so it has provided extra incentive for not going back to it.  The worst symptoms lasted for 7 days like everyone says.  So hang in there if you're in the thick of it!  This WILL pass and you WILL be the person you remember yourself being (for better or for worse, but for me, more better than worse!). :)
Thanks again!

Avatar universal
by english_mum, Feb 27, 2010
Hi again

Day 4 now and I had no night sweats -yeah!!  Still feeling very lethargic and snappy but the chills are far less frequent than they were.

Onwards and upwards hopefully.

Thanks again for sharing your experiences :-)

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 27, 2010
5 days clean. No restless legs, but some interrupted sleep at night, strange dreams. Yesterday was feeling tired, felt better after green tea with ginseng. The trams really dig in their teeth, don't they. Keeping up with my workouts, adding some reps since I sprained my neck. Doing physical therapy exercises every day. Jillbean said she didn't feel like exercising while on trams. Just the opposite for me, I was like the go bunny (ha ha), perhaps because my dose was relatively low. Reading Kubla Kahn by Coleridge this morning what a great poem--be glad when I finally get out of Xanadu though. Tramadol is like a demon lover for sure.

Have a great weekend all!

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by forget_me_not, Feb 27, 2010
Greetings, Warriors.

Good news...today is 25 weeks of freedom for me!  Bad news...I have pneumonia.  I'm very sick but still pulling for all of you, hoping you're finding the strength you need to fight this war one day at a time.

If you pray, please pray for me.

healing to all,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by mandyloop, Feb 27, 2010
Hi everyone.!!
Amy, I wanted to say the first time I went Cold Turkey--which is brutal by the way after about 6 months of consistant useage... But for me was the best, I needed or always have with almost any goal wanted support. ( people,environmental, spiritual, and physical. ) I went to a cabin--and like many declared war. I wanted help over the hump. So to speak....
I got that it was miraculous, I had room mates, my ex-husband, and my bible study people. And THIS POST!!
So, that being said, I am a competative triathlete- I am 41 like many heare am very active, and I ran my way though this c!! It WAS NOT A LINEAR HEALING PROCESS> The physical pains, and lack of energy, which I only experienced throughout the second two weeks after going off. Its gone now. I have all, my energy back. Just that I think psychologically I deal with pain differently now. I slipped, and used some again. And although IM off now ( again) forst week.
And I just pushed myself too hard, I am maintaining a low wieght, 97 or 98 and IM like 5.3 but I am just taking protien supplements, and anything I can do to get strong. The hardest part for me is it wasnt linear, one day was good, and I was like"yippee!!" Im done!!! Then the next seemed like day two or?? So yeah, Tramadol just stinks period!!
I think now when Im very overwhelmed or stressed, or ( overtrained like my 5:30 mile pac I overheard another runner here!!) I get done with my work outs sometimes going--man I HURT!!! Help, my legs are screaming at me.ANd .. I am tempted to borrow ( and have) or get my own ( and have ) but its this psychological battle Im on now. If I want to return to my high level of activity I need to take is easy. BE KIND to yourself. It takes time.
Its the mental battle now.
Thanks, BODEGIRL!! And great job on doing this!! Hang in there, In a couple weeks it will start to lift!! IT really will. And Im so glad there are physicians on here that very helpful!!!
Mandy

Avatar universal
by mandyloop, Feb 27, 2010
FMN
Hey, yeah I know I finally got my birth control pils, and have an actual annual scheduled instead of just masking my days.. I know all about not taking care of my body, and in the meantime, running it into the ground. My next thing is to get to the dentist. I am pretty OCD about my teeth, but its just amazing how you dont want to take care of stuff you just wanted to ( take a pill and feel like you had!)
Thx

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by wantmyselfback, Feb 27, 2010
FMN- I'm praying for you!  Rest up!  Lots of chicken noodle soup!  Hope you feel better soon!

Avatar universal
by misslindz1984, Feb 27, 2010
Hi, my name is Lindsay and I joined this website for this paticular forum. I have been taking tramadol for about 7 1/2 months and I take about 10-13 50 mg tablets a day. I am trying to cut back but I have been through withdrawals before and couldn't stop completely due to the horrendous muscle spasms, chills, all the usual stuff I have seen everyone on here go through. I have been taking them pretty much since my son was born for all kinds of back pain. They Never helped with the pain but gave me the energy to get up and clean my house and take care of my kid.  I live far away from any friends and family and so it's just me and my fiance and our son. The firstime I went through full withdrawals I made sure I didnt run out of them at all. I have never had a prescripton for them My fiance's sister told me about a website that would prescribe them without a prescription and that was that. Its extremely expensive and I feel like impossible to get off of. I have tried to today to ween down I have only taken six all day and I'm pouring sweat, anxiety, and nausea. I don't sleep on a regular basis as my son still wakes up every three hours wanting a bottle or to be comforted. So I can't afford to lose anymore sleep than I already due by quitting cold turkey with these things. I wanna be off of them and soon but I feel like cold turkey is not the road I need to take. I have started pouring sweat standing in lines at the grocery store and have complete social anxiety as before I use to be a very sociable person. I feel completely out of control and extremely angry at myself for allowing this to go on for so long. It has effected my life in every aspect and I am ready to stop but I know that I wanna do it the right way with AD's and therapy. I have been in AA before and I know it does wonders. My fiance has just stopped drinking and I was one of the reasons and I feel like the worlds biggest hypocrite because I am addicted to these expensive pills that I can't stop on my own regard. I don't want my son to grow up and see his mother popping pills all day. I have alot of back problems and I do hurt alot of the time but the tramadol doesn't even help the pain. I had my son by csection and was on hydrocodone for a months and i stopped and it was NOTHING LIKE THIS! NOT EVEN CLOSE! Any feedback I would love some advice on cutting back and quitting these things for good. I obviously can't do rehab or anything like that b/c I am the only one who takes care of my family. So please all help and advice would be graciously appreciated!!!

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by Wummick, Feb 27, 2010
Lindsay-there are folks on this forum who are more knowledgeable  than I am, but I can tell you a few things about my experience which may help a little. 10-13 tabs a day is very high-I believe the recommended daily maximum is around 400 mgs or 8 tabs. You will need to taper, but too fast will cause more harm than good IMO. You should be able to get to 400mgs fairly quickly, and without too much discomfort. Take two tabs four times a day until you have a routine. Your body will quickly adjust to this amount. My taper took a month-which sounds like a long time but it passed fairly quickly. Yours may take a little longer. The general rule I got from my rehab clinic is 25% reduction per week after that. So from two tabs four times a day go to 1.5 tabs four times a day after a week. The next week you can try 1 tab four times a day, or two tabs twice a day-whichever feels more comfortable. Now speaking for myself It took a month for me at the 200 mg's level to get to zero, but it was a manageable experience. Uncomfortable, yes, but horrible-no. I also came completely clean to everyone in my life except my employer and workmates. My wife was told, friends, bandmates, etc. That experience alone helped me tremendously, because suddenly I wasn't alone in the battle. My wife and friends have been wonderfully supportive, and if I'm feeling lousy I just explain what's going on, and they understand. Frequently we'll laugh about it-as weird as that seems. "Oh you and your withdrawals"..... (granted I have some really cool friends) but the point is when it becomes more of a medical problem than a secret addiction that nobody knows about the dynamics really change. It does take courage, and being consistent. But the taper really worked for me, and today (day 5!) was my best day yet. I slept pretty well last night, and had a pretty comfortable day overall. I've been trying to exercise more, and it REALLY helps the anxiety levels. During the worst part of the taper it was all I could do to feel better. I will add that my regular health plan offered inexpensive drug rehab counseling and they put me on Prozac 10 days before I took my last pill. I'm pretty sure it has helped the transition.

Lindsay- everyone here knows to some degree what you're going through. You're not alone.  If you're determined you'll make it. Don't beat yourself up. Tramadol is one of the most seductive and addictive drugs I've ever encountered, and I was on it for 10 years. My doctor told me that I probably have an underlying chemical issue, and it was more of a "self medicating" situation than addiction in my case. Whatever it was I was hooked and unable to stop for a decade-but your post sounds like you've turned a corner- and you'll see the light at the end of the tunnel soon.

I wish you best.

Peace to you all, Jason.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 28, 2010
FMN-hope you get better soon. Take lots of C, get plenty of rest.

6 days clean now, slept good last night. Found another aid in the W/D battle: ginseng. Ginseng, especially red ginseng tea can help chase away the blues. Great for you too, it seems:

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/asian-ginseng-000249.htm

Keep up the fight warriors.

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by angel44240, Feb 28, 2010
Wow, I never realized how many had a problem coming off of Tramadol/Ultram! I did 2 years ago and a few from Medhelp forum helped me through it, and I successfully went off and stayed off.. UNTIL my Rheumatologist put me back on it about 9 months ago.. ugh! I'm currently taking 4 to 5 tabs a day.. I am going to pick up my prescription for the Catapres patch today sometime (I have a script for 4) and when I'm heading toward quitting altogether, I'm going to put on the first patch. (Catapres patch is what Pain Management centers prescribe for W/D's.. works like a charm! It's .1mg of Clonidine released every so often and ya wear the patch for 4 days, place a new one on after, and ya only use the second one for about 2 or 3 days and the symptoms are virtually gone).. follow up care is essential, however, and you need to buy some Hyland's Restful Legs from the drug store- works great for RLS.. Nothing would work for me and that's the only remedy that would!
I'd advice this to everyone who's posted, unless however you have medical issues with blood pressure because it does lower your blood pressure slightly, which a spike in blood pressure is one of the main symptoms of w/d's..
Hope this helps everyone! Love to all!


Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Feb 28, 2010
For me, any physician that would put me back on Tramadol after knowing my history of dependency would be a disqualification for continued patronage. It primarily means that he/she is closed minded and/or does not listen. Don't be afraid to seek out a different doctor if you intuition tells you to do so.

Avatar universal
by misslindz1984, Feb 28, 2010
Goodmorning! Well I dropped down to nine yesterday! yay! Doesn't seem like much but for me it was a ton! I didn't feel uncomfortable but did wake up this morning with my son a lil sore and took three which is alot less than my usual five to seven. Morning time and evening are my usual high doses. I am hoping that I may be able to get to eight today or eight and a half. I really feel like this is my best way to do it. I am determined b/c I hate hate hate this medicine! I can't believe there are doctors out there that would do this to people its awful! I feel good so far today but I also have vicodin to kind of combat the soreness in the joints in muscles, however when its time to take my tramadol I can feel the nausea and sweat come on fairly quick! I though using another opiate would help combat some of those symptoms but boy was I wrong! I am gonna keep tapering down and try to do it the most comfortable way possible. My family is going through alot right now but what a better time to get my head and body cleared so I can make better decisons for our future. Not too mention we are going broke ordering these things and my final order will be in on Monday and this will be the prescription I use to ween off of . I am nervous and excited at the same time to be off these horrible pills. Thanks so much WUMMICK! I am going to try it the way you did it and hope that this will all be a little better in a couple months. I am not trying to be unrealistic and tell myself that I am gonna kick this and its not gonna have a lenghty recovery process b.c having been aa for a long time I know that all I can do is take it one day at a time and pray and rely on god and do the footwork that is required of me to quit these things for good! SO grateful to have found this place!



Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Feb 28, 2010
Hi Everyone..sorry i went "mia" for few days...thanks so much for your concern, kind words and encouragement.  Honest to God..the trip last week kicked my a__ much more than i thought it would.  The good news is I stayed level with my taper...did not increase..but the depression and anxiety and brain malfunction  were huge..i took tiny bits of xanax to smooth so i could get thru the day...got lost in this huge city i was driving in and every time my gps said "recalculating"..i thought i would have a heart attack - at one point i started crying as i drove lost thru the streets..begging her (gps) to get me back on track..(my higher power at that moment)...the quality of my work was not good...i was barely getting by...could hardly wait to get back to safety of my hotel room..had too much wine with dinner..(the carbs are calling to me as well and i too am eating too much)  and had sleep interrupted with attacks of fear as to how i would get thru the next day..talk about lost...i cut my trip short by a day..fearful for my sanity..i've felt completely exhausted, alone..not wanting any interaction with anyone or anything. i do realize i need to address the depression with an ad or similar.  also, i am going to contact the psychotherapist tomorrow and try to get an appt...not going to use insurance to keep me from going..my life is at stake..i know there are issues that need to be resolved..issues that kept me on the trams for 4 years...that causes me to overeat and drink too much.  need to find myself again..and not just define myself as someone's mom, daughter, employee, friend...whoever you need me to be in that moment. .. i was even keeping myself away from this forum..from the reality of it..i just wanted nothing, wanting to just disappear ..sorry if this is not making sense...but someone here checked on me..and it itouched my heart so much ..made me realize that this is where i need to be..to keep myself reinforced with knowledge, support, encouragement..your stories of courage and how you are all doing..  My heart goes out to all of you with so much gratitude ...you have no idea what your sharing is doing for me and for so many...thank you seems so incomplete..but all i have now are those words and a grateful heart.  im doing the supplements...seeing my dr again soon..he wnts to monitor my taper...exercise is not happening.i lost the energery the trams gave me early on..and i can't find it...
so much love, hugs and gratitude for all of you.
Fmn..honey are you better..I am so sorry for your pneumonia..i wish i could bring you some chicken soup.
Bode, chess, wummuck, Jilll..to all of you off the crap...CONGRATULATIONS...so admire your strength and courage..
Fmn, 4 Leef, Susan., Jenny, ,Pharma ..sweeties...how are you?  love u guys..thanks for asking "where's Pat"..u dont know what that means.
To the new faces out here... please know ...in this crazy world that is swirling all around us..this room is where you can come for honesty, peace, information, love, encouragement...it's the real deal...stay here..stay with us...keep writing or reading if that is more comfortable..but dont go away...if you havent seen your story yet...rest assured you will.
Thanks for the lifeline my friends.
Peace & Love,
Pat


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by Wummick, Feb 28, 2010
Misslindz-you sound much more up! The time will go more quickly than you think. When you are down to the 50mg level I STRONGLY urge you to get on some kind of Anti-depressant like Prozac (it's fairly cheap VS. some of the others). Unfortunately you can't mix the two because of Serotonin toxicity issues, but my doctor felt that 50mg's was safe to transition from and started me about a week before I stopped. The transition to no Trams has been pretty painless, and I'm on day 6 today feeling relatively good!
The fact is, one of the harder things to get through on this pill is not the opioid, but the anti-depressant they kick in. It works in a similar way to Prozac, but with far more side effects-the result of the other functions of the pill.

Try to take two four times a day as soon you feel up to it. Right now your taking more later in the day to get a rush-believe me I know. By getting your body used to more of a stable buzz (than going for a rush) the taper may be easier. Personally I would tough it out the first week at that dose till it seems normal (you should feel okay after a few days). Once you've got a routine the taper gets easier. Yes, it's uncomfortable but hardly cold turkey at 800 mgs per day! ;-)

There are some mental tricks I use sometimes. When you feel WD pains visualize it's because the poison is leaving your body. This is a good thing. Not a good feeling, but a good direction. As your body adapts to the new dose it is also healing, slowly, but surely. You may feel emotions that have been suppressed for a long time. Again, that is the real you starting to come up for emotional air. Treat it like a friend. Tramadol makes everything glossy but without the ability to feel natural emotions-both high and low- you are distanced from the human experience.

If you are not exercising you need to start. Seriously. Take a LONG walk. Bring your son. Buy a used stationary bike from Craigslist (people practically give those things away, and it will probably cost you less than your last refill...) Take it from a guy who HATES to exercise. But after a lousy day of WD's it really helps. No kidding. The sweating probably removes toxins more quickly, and it helped me to sleep better. Drink a ton of water as well.

Flush, sweat, taper. Before you know it, that junk will be out of your body.

Keep up the good attitude! Peace to you all, Jason.

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by forget_me_not, Feb 28, 2010
Thanks, guys.  I'm having a tough time.  Drinking lots of fluids and trying to stay still as much as I can.

Pat, sweetie, I am so, so glad to hear from you.  I was going to come on today and beg you to let us know how you're doing!  I am so sorry you are having a hard time.  This drug can be sheer hell to come off of, even in a taper.  Stress makes it much harder.  You are so strong to be sticking with that taper.  And I know you've heard it before but I'll say it again...the depression, the anxiety -- they are all normal for what you're going through.  It is so hard.  Be gentle with yourself, dear.  Talk to your doctor and therapist, and if you feel the depression is too much (as I did), consider an AD.  Do whatever is necessary to get through this.  I'm having good results so far with the Wellbutrin.  I was really in bad condition with the depression.  Talking about it and seeking help is a step in the right direction.  It doesn't mean you will have to take an AD for the rest of your life.  You may be able to take it temporarily, as you are coming off the tramadol, to smooth things out.  Moment to moment.  Focus on the present, and the future will take care of itself.

And I can't help but feel pretty sure your perceptions of "not doing a good job" are probably not as accurate as you feel they are.  This poison really warps our perceptions at times.  I am going to wager that you did far better at work than you feel you did.  

Tramadol is just a terrible drug.  

Love and healing to all of you this day, Warriors.  Thank you for the prayers.  Please keep them coming.

blessings,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by tramadont93, Mar 01, 2010
Good morning everyone,I have been reading the posts from everyone and it makes me feel so much better and i can sympathize with everyone and am glad so many are kicking the habit of this terrible drug. I have been away on yet another month long binge of tram,taking my usual 30 to 40 pills a day (Yes that is right). for the whole month of Feb,so that makes 3 months of me taking this drug on a regular bases minus the week here and there of w/d's from hell when I ran out.I am finally to the point where no refill is possible. That is the point I think I had to get to as I have no willpower. I tried taper and it worked for a day.to make the long story short i took my last dose last thursday night,so this is day4 of c/t. I have found that Neorontin I take for nerve damage has helped tremendouly albeit I take a very high dosage. I have felt little to no withdrawels and IM sleeping. I hate to be bragging b/c Im afraid it will hit at any moment. I take a one a day multi vitamin and melatonin at night and im sleeping 8 hours with no sweats or anything. Now Im just feeling giulty for having to call the pharmacy to lie to get a refill of nuerontin early.If they say no well I will be on day 5. I have read that day 7 is the turnaround day for cold tukey withdrawels to Im just going to take it day by day.one thing is certain..I cant possible get tram.literally there is no way for me to get it,and I think I had to get to this point for me to stop. good luck  to everyone,and thanks for listening to me ramble!

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Mar 01, 2010
Thanks Fmn..you are a sweetheart.. .i suspect you are right about perception..your statement about the poison warping our perception has got to be 100% right on...how dark and deep this drug takes my perceptions..i need to ask though..as i said before the energy and ability to work hard and exercise and clean and do yard work and work a regular job..keeping crazy energy busy...has worn off..i know that at first it was tram induced and now i feel lethargic a lot...i do believe the depression has much to do with this...i am takingn the b12.and other supplements ..do you have any other suggestions for the energy - ? i have so much that i need to get done...i will call the dr. today about an ad...perhaps i've weaned enough to not be concerned about the serotonin syndrome...and probably you would say the exercise will help my metabolism..but any other suggestions?  also, for focus..the "add" affect is pretty mind boggling...sitting here at this desk at home..trying to work..i have mountains of bills thrown in stacks..combined with my "work" papers..i dont know how to start or what to do..i pick up one thing ..then move to something else before it is finished...and at the end of day nothing is complete and ii feel like crap.
Tramadont - good luck and congrats that it appears your withdrawal is going relatively well...I am tapering..not sure I could handle  what you are doing..I wish you all the best.
Gratefully
Pat


Avatar universal
by Karen2010, Mar 01, 2010
Help.  I have visited this site off and on for the past year but have not been regular enough to figure out what I need to most.  Would it be possible to have some of you SUMMARIZE your experience with TRAM - how much you took a day, how long, what it did for you and what your withdrawal symptoms were like.

I am not up to almost 25+ a day (don't ask).  Started out 2 a night to help sleep, then was at 6 then 8 then something happened and now it is out of control.  

I dont know if it my imagination or if it is really not working anymore:

It used to:
Make me feel immediate Presence.  I was focused, and in a good place emotionally
I was awake but then could sleep like a baby when I wanted.
Tram was the miracle drug for me.  I had bounds of energy day and most of night but whenever I needed to sleep slept better than ever.
It also immediately took away my hunger.  I have lost 3 sizes. I wear a zero now.

I have always worked out and been in shape but this took way my appetite to the place I had to force myself to eat.

the main attribute Tram did for me was sped up my metabolism.  I found myself eating sweets or craving carbohydrates more but I burned it off faster.  I would eat a half a cake at night and still be skinny ...

Now:

Now I am feeling the hunger more an more (not as satisfied as I used to be).
CONSTANTLY tired all the time
Have horrible cold sweats most of the day (adjusting from night before of all the tram's I took to get past this samefeeling the day before).
I have experienced headached more and more
I used to clean my house and be Super Mom....which kept me taking this despite all your posts.  I could not bring myselt to want to go back to hating to do dishes, and letting my house go. I felt like a better mom on Tram.

Now my dishes are piled hight, I RARELY go out, I RARELY even want to shower, tired all the time.  

What can I expect now to get off this?

Have any of you lost weight on this drug.  Last time I tried to stop, I tried for 2 weeks and got such bad bowel discomfortt it I couldnt stand it.  My stomache and abdomen was getting all the feelings back and I felt like I had swollen stomache all the time.

I am scared to stop.  I am afraid I will be depressed so bad that it will not be worth it.  That is another reason I have not stopped even though I read your posts this is so terrible.  I wasnt sure my old way of life was any better.  I chose between the 2 evils..atleast with this I was efficient and looked better (although some might consider me too skinny now).  At any rate, I am afraid of what I have done to my normal metabolsm.  I think I take enought that would justify the withdrawal drug may opiate abusers take to ease the withdrawals (subox???) can't reemember the name.

Can I do this by myself or should I get into a program?

I read the posts but if you don't follow daily feel kinda lost.  Most of you know eachother enough you just 'talk".  I need specific experiences fo what you had felt on the drug and what you are going through now.

thanks.

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by forget_me_not, Mar 01, 2010
Karen, we welcome you.  You're in a wonderful place.

I understand your need to "cut to the chase" and get the low-down on the withdrawal experience, what works, what doesn't.  Please check out my journal when you can.  I've written down some of the things I went through, as well as what helped me through it.  Perhaps something there will be helpful for you, too.

Another cool thing... nobody will judge you here!  We've all been right where you are.  I went cold turkey from 14-15 pills daily.  Would have been up to 20 if I hadn't stopped.  So I know.  We all know.  We support you, and will be here to answer any questions you have.

WD is going to be rough.  My guess is that perhaps there were other issues going on before you started taking tram, issues that made you feel lethargic, depressed, etc. -- and therefore more vulnerable to this drug.  It made you "super you".  It did the same thing for me.  Until it turned and I was in so much pain that I was essentially disabled. But I have learned that we do heal in amazing ways.  I had the same fears you have about returning to my pre-tram self.  I didn't feel good enough.  But I am there now, and I wouldn't trade it for my tramadol-self.  Not a chance.

I hope you find something here that can help you put the pieces of the puzzle together.  It's a crazy experience coming off this drug.  But you can do it.

Stay with us.  If we can help, just ask.

lots of love,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Mar 01, 2010
Karen,  Click on my icon, go to my profile page and select ALL, and read my journal entires.

Tramadol is uncontrolled RAT POISON.  Everyone will stop one day.   It's only a matter of whether you stop on your terms or the drug's terms.

Good luck.  fred

Avatar universal
by howcouldiknow88, Mar 01, 2010
Karen, we all know what you are going through. The tramadol used to do so much for us, too. But after awhile, it turned on us.

You mentioned being scared to come off because of possible depression. Just being honest...depression will likely be there. A deep, dark, crippling depression you never thought possible. This is due to tramadol functioning as a fast-acting serotonin-norepiniphrine-reuptake-inhibitor. There is even speculation now that tramadol may even work to release serotonin. I can send you a source for that info if you want.

I went off on December 26, 2009 after being on it since June 2003. Never thought it would be possible. I went through some severe withdrawal, but noticed that the first day was the worst and it slowly got better from there. There is some severe depression during the acute withdrawal phase, but after withdrawal is when it really kicks in. I feel zombiefied most of the time and I still crave the tram, because I know by now tolerance is down and it would have those old effects on me. But they would be short-lived. Tolerance lowers quickly, but also goes back up quickly.

I hope this doesn't scare you from quitting. Honesty is the best policy and it took some people on here being brutally honest to get me off. Yeah I was scared to death. But you need to be mad, too! Get mad at this. You can try tapering. I was dead set on tapering. I tried it for a couple of weeks, but noticed when the dose was lowered withdrawal would come on a little sooner and I was just so mad I threw 'em all out and went cold-turkey. Withdrawal is no joke, Karen. I'm sure you have felt it while waiting on a dose to kick in. I woke up every single morning with severe withdrawal until it kicked in. That's another thing I got sick of.

You can do this. Add me and talk to me. I just recently got off and maybe I can give you some advice. There is no rush in quitting. Take your time. You can do it. Some other people on here will give you some really good advice on minimizing withdrawal, etc.

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Mar 01, 2010
HI Karen..welcome. I am relatively new out here and i cannot help you like many of the others..in terms of advice..but I know that you will get some great answers soon....one thing you said that resonates with me..and your honesty is so appreciated.. "I wasnt sure my old way of life way any better. I chose between the 2 evils..at least i was efficient looked better)"...yes, i understand this..and i cannot remember my old life to be honest..but i struggled and tramadol made me a superwoman to be sure...but it could be that the tramadol deceives us into thinking that we accomplish so much and seem to be a better person while on the drug ..and perhaps deceives us into thinking that our life previous was not so good..i dont know..the deal is..on the trams..we are NOT authentic.. we are not real with our families, our friends, ourselves.  I suffered a lot of personal loss while ltaking Tramadol..and consequently..I did not grieve properly..I was strong and got thru the tragedies ..comforting everyone around me..Now, I suspect that once I am clean..I will have to go back and dig up this grief and express it. as part of my own personal healing process.   Give yourself credit..you are reaching out for help and know that you've come to the right place..so so much wisdom out here and encouragement. so keep writing...(the writing alone helps i've found)..and keep reading..if you have time..go back and read some of Emily's early posts...so much to be learned about this horrible drug..and the surprise to me was fact that it had properties of anti depressant..  no wonder i felt so good!!  and no wonder..as i am tapering off...the depression is pretty intense. If you have a doctor you can talk to ..who can support you..that would be great..if you have access to psychotherapy..that also would be great..just keep coming back here..and you will get a lot of answers and support.
My heart goes out to you.
Pat

Avatar universal
by mandyloop, Mar 01, 2010
Hi guys,
Im on two days off, one in the middle with that vic thrown in in the afternoon. I had one night of horrid sweats, and leg RLS stuff. Then yesterday it subsided. What an idiot. I cant believe I ever did that. I feel much better today.
And........ Miracle, is that I had a race this week end and I knocked a whole minute off my time!! I placed, I am doing much better off tram or any other med than I ever did on. So I am convinced I need to stay off it as much as possible. Or like, NEVER...
Thanks for the "breakthrough pain" info. Ive been working on, my training since I was a kid, on the dealing with pain thing I guess I just meant now I psychologically know theres a pill that could make me feel better sooner after--"After" my races, tris, I dont want to have them during. Weird, I guess I make a bad addict. Im somewhat of a masicist.
But, that being said, AMY, FMN, and everyone, you guys rock, because your here. And I am wading my way through the work, dating, competing world, and I wish to god like in those aa meetings I could take a big ol break.
I try to be easy on my self, but I just always feel better moving, really. I just want the psychological trickery I play on myself to start waning. I hate that I ocd about it at times.
Mandy
Day three.

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by Wummick, Mar 01, 2010
Hello all. Be strong, and know that if you are here then you are ready to make a change. I read this post for several months before I quit Tramadol, but it helped pave the way. You can quit, you will quit. It's not your fault you were seduced by such a powerful chemical. We all were.

Peace and self forgiveness.  JK

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Mar 01, 2010
Jason, mandy, karen- glad you are here with us. Keep Posting!! The first few days of w/d can really suc* , especially when you do a cold turkey w/d. Tramadol withdrawal will not kill you, but continued use just might. It FEELS like you are in deep but every day after 4-5 gets better...and from what I've read on this post 'weaners' have a lighter w/d experience.

Karen- I LOVED your synopsis of the Tram-a go- round....how it lulls us with the energy and weight loss, the improved sleep
the energy, the pain management and the weight loss (did I mention weight loss?)
oh, yeah......anyway
then it turns on us...we start counting pills and are compulsively thinking about how, when, where, we'll use it...how many we have left, how we'll get more.......yep the energy goes, the w/d is always just around the corner, calling for increased doses.........in short
addicted

Hi Pat! great to hear from you, Honey!!!
FMN- how are you doing today? taking care, taking great care of yourself, I hope....we love you!
bode- so very proud of you, happy to know you are free at last!
(sometimes, at this point a new level of work, begins......I am always happy to go through ANY of this with you)
howcouldi- SO happy for you and your family! great news you did not need an AD

I have been snowshoeing the last 3 days....lovin every minute of it
learning and learning  
more later
Be Well and Know that You are Loved

  

Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Mar 01, 2010
Hi all,
I only have a minute to type.  Wanted to check in.
Karen-((hugs)) I know where you are and how you feel.  It's ok. We are here for you.  I too was up to a rediculous amount of T's and after a while they lost there affect.  I too lost weight, I looked disgusting, I am naturally 110-112lbs(at 5'4") without working at it and I went into the 90's and everyone would stare at me because of how horribe I looked. I had no idea at the time.  But, yes, the evil T's will loose it's affect no matter how many you conyinue to take, you will always have to up the dose just to feel "normal". It's a viscious cycle.   I understand everything you are feeling.  Whatever way you choose to get off the evil pills, we will support you. We are like a safety net here, and we will not judge you, no matter what.  

4leef-yay!  I AM FREE!  Thank you for always thinking of me.  I am in a bit of limbo. I keep thinking I have to think where I stashed my pills until I remember that I don't take pills anymore.  I am doing fine, feeling my way again. Slowly but surely getting my life back(AGAIN!).  I LOVE that you are snow shoeing and loving it. Sounds amazing.

Pat-hugs.  Love hearing from you. I knoiw things can be so hard. Thank you for staying in touch. You are doing great.  W are pulling for you.
FMN-How are you feeling? I hope the pneumonia is gone!  Praying for you.

Mandy-great going!  I am inspired that you cut a minute off your pace!  Keep up the great work.

Love you guys!  I'll be back with more later.

Bode


Avatar universal
by mandyloop, Mar 01, 2010
Just checking in, again,
My doc. Re-filled my prescrip. I told her Im done. I have had this back and forth going on for soo long. I think if I had done this tapering slower and not been in such a hurry I may have not felt so bad. And ambivelent. I would be lying if I said I wasnt tempted to just use it for a slower taper. I dont know. I feel like a failure. I know Im going to do many other things, my work my training, but ever since September its been so hard. It was all the emotional relationship stuff. Not knowing where to turn. I had a break up. It lingered, with weird issues of him being jealous of my friends, people ect.
I am just having a bad day I guess. Not even sure why.
Mandy.
Sorry just may have to go see a shrink for my "pendulum" feelings, everyother day Im different.

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Mar 01, 2010
Hi all, 8 days off trams. I have no desire whatsoever for them. Still have 5 tabs in my cabinet, but don't feel that I want to take or obtain anymore. Bode: tramadol made me lose weight too, the first time I became addicted. It's so odd, though, many do not know they're addicted until they run out! Even then, they might think they're coming down with a cold or the flu. That's what happened to me. When I went back on, I kept my dose down to 37.5 mg (max), but still became addicted after a short time, which seems to indicate that there is no such thing as a non-addictive dose for trams.

I went to Walmart yesterday and bought some Korean ginseng. I took only 100mg yesterday afternoon and BANG! I was practically up all night. Trying to do without coffee today and break my 200mg/day caffeine addiction, or at least cut down. If you take Asian ginseng, take it in the morning.

Keep fighting everyone, and you will make it!

Avatar universal
by grandmagirl, Mar 01, 2010
365 days clean.....from Ultram....Thank God...

I still don't think my brain has completely recovered and I was only on 1 50 mg. tablet a day for a about a year....

I do have a question for those of you that have gone before me...Can you sleep???? I am still having problems with sleep...Maybe I sleep two hours at most than wake up ..then try to force myself back to sleep. So maybe I'm getting about 4 to 5 hours a night. I am 62 and working full time. I have started to walk/run on a treadmill for a bout a half hour a day..I thought that would help..but so far no luck.. Depression has finally gone away..It took mos. and mos. for that to happen..

Is this happening to any one that has been off Tram for at least 6 mos... Thanks for any information...

Peaceful wishes from California

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by AmyLL, Mar 01, 2010
Hey all! Sorry for disappearing off the face of the earth for the past few days...sadly, I've been in the hospital with some bleeding issues - and much to my aggravation, a 350/400 daily dose of ultram along with Demerol. I'm so upset that this happened, when I had weaned myself down so far...but I was in such agony that I figured I'd battle it out when I was feeling better, which is now.
I took 4 tablets today, and I feel the w/d's starting to kick in...combined with the fact that my abdomen is killing me (I had an ovarian cyst rupture and I started to hemorrhage), I am purely miserable. Since I got home this evening I've done nothing but catch up on the happenings here, and to formulate a new plan - or at least try to.
I am glad to see new faces here, and that the advice is continuing from those who have been in our shoes before.

have a great Tuesday - I'll be back tomorrow evening!

Avatar universal
by bodegirl, Mar 02, 2010
Grandmagirl-365 days clean? Thats AWESOME!!  I took me a long time to get back to sleeping normally the last time I weaned off of T's. Not a whole year, but months and months. Ive always had trouble with sleep though, so it was no surprise that after detoxing off of T's that is would take a very long time to get back to 'normal' sleep.  It did come though.  I am glad to hear you're exercising because I was going to suggest that. It does help.  I sometimes take Melatonin which seems to help also. Have you tried that?  Thank you for being SUCH A BIG SUPPORT TO SO MANY ON HERE! You are truly a gift to us all.  Please keep posting about any troubles you have.  Love seeing you here.
Chess-congrats on 8 days!
Amy-Im sorry to hear of your pain.  That throws a whole other challenge to getting off of the T's, BUT, you CAN do it.  We are here for you.
Mandy-believe me, many of us, including me, have been up and down and all over the place throughout this process. You are in a good place to share your feelings. You are not alone.  Keep talking to us.

I'll write more later.

Free at last: Bode :-)

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Mar 02, 2010
Hi Everyone..just wanted you all to know Im pulling for everyone..all of you struggling with the madness known at tram withdrawal...hang in..im battling outrageous, debilitating depression myself..
hang in and keep reading and writing if you so choose.. we are all here..waging this battle together..there is so much strength in numbers and good information..
Hanging on precipice
Pat

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Mar 02, 2010
Keep working everyone, try to endure the dark times as much as possible without chemical help; they have so much to teach us:

"Take Some of the Sting Out of Your Suffering

With regards to suffering, our pain hurts a little less whenever we can remember this strange (but true) spiritual fact: many of God's greatest gifts seem, at first, unbearable to receive."


Guy Finley

Avatar universal
by JG525, Mar 02, 2010
Just wanted to check in.  I'm training someone at work, so no time to check in.  Doing fine though!

Avatar universal
by 4leefclover, Mar 02, 2010
Hi Jen! glad to hear you are doing well. Are you training your replacement?
Hi Chess--so VERY true. unbearable to receive......yes
Pat- precipice? Hey Girl. Do you need more help with this w/d taper you have going? how can we help?
I needed to get more support going in my life besides this journal (which is entirely awesome)
R U ok?
we love you

off to another full day. depression is waning so nicely. the clouds lift as the emotional morass brought on by Tramademon recedes ................

..........there is a light in you which cannot die....who's presence is SO HOLY that it sanctifies the world

                                                                                                            ACIM

we ARE that Light
thanks all for keeping it burning while I felt in the dark

STAY STRONG AND KNOW
that You are Loved

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by forget_me_not, Mar 02, 2010
Beautiful, perfect, Chess.  Perfect.  Thanks for sharing.

Thank you all for the prayers and kind wishes.  I'm still down with pneumonia.  Six days, I think.  I will push through it, though.  I just don't do well having to be totally immobile and useless.  Never did, never will.  Mind goes to some bad places.

Pat, sweetie I am concerned about you and that debilitating depression.  I know how it can throw everything else into a state of frightening chaos.  I want to help you get through this. I am here for you and I need you to know that I understand what you are going through.  I have gone through it, too.  Have you talked with your doctor/therapist about the severity of the depression?  There are medications that have helped people tremendously.  Did you ever suffer depression before the tramadol years?  I did.  Tram masked it, pushed it away.  And when the tram was gone, the depression had GROWN.  Very simply, I had to get help.  And I am doing much better now.

I am going to give you my yahoo IM info, email, etc.  If you want to talk...I'm here.  Laid up on the couch with pneumonia and not going anywhere.  :-)

Keep hanging on, dear.  It is going to get better.  We wouldn't keep saying that if it weren't true.  

love,
~fmn

Avatar universal
by JG525, Mar 02, 2010
Yes, 4 leef- My replacement.  YAY!

Pat- You really should look into a low dose of prozac or something.  I really don't think seretonin syndrome is a huge risk.  Since my doctor prescribed a normal dose of Pristiq then Effexor while I was on Tramadol.  A doctor could tell you more, but I hope you get some help! I'm on 10mg of Prozac right now and it's amazing how much it helps! That and making sure my thyroid is treated.

Jenny

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Mar 02, 2010
Fmn & Jenny..i put call into dr. yesterday to call in something..they did not call me back. i'll persist.  yes i had depression issues prior to trams...and yes, the tram took care of the depression ..or masked it as you say. spoke to my pharmacist..she said should be no worries for serotonin syndrome..contacted therapist seeing her soon,  listening right now to guy finley (thanks Chess)..i am being proactive for sure..i just need to keep talking to you and thank you for talking to me..just need to keep connected as i still am not talking to those close to me about this..(secrecy shroud is pretty draining) . hate to sound like im so self centered. i've been thru alot..but damn this feels like the fight of my life. .but truly thru all of this..i do love you guys and im hoping good things for you..fmn..praying for your recovery from the pneumonia and your body to heal...jenny thanks for the info ..im on levoxyl for the thyroid..taking the supplements..
thank you from deep in heart..i
gratefully
pat

Avatar universal
by chessgames56, Mar 02, 2010
FMN, you might benefit from Coenzyme q-10  (100 mg/day, if possible), and Korean ginseng to help boost your immunity. Just make sure not to take the ginseng PM, and use an Asian variety rather than the American:

"Immune system health

Asian ginseng is believed to enhance the immune system, possibly helping the body fight off infection and disease. Several clinical studies report that Asian ginseng can improve immune function. Studies have found that ginseng seems to increase the number of immune cells in the blood, and improve the immune system's response to a flu vaccine. In one study, 227 participants received either ginseng or placebo for 12 weeks, with a flu shot administered after 4 weeks. The number of colds and flu were two-thirds lower in the group that took ginseng."

I bought some Korean ginseng at Walmart for about 5 bucks (100 mg capsules).

I'm discovering that there are a lot of beneficial herbs and supplements that work as good as or better then the chemical poisons that the pharmaceutical companies pedal.

Another negative side effect of tramadol is heart palpitations. I noticed that they have stopped completely now since I got off trams. I thought maybe it was because my thyroid meds were too high (200 mcg daily), but it wasn't.

Be well all!



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by EmilyPost, Mar 02, 2010
This thread is closed

Please move to Part 29 (holy H-e double toothpicks ... part 29!)

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/166777?new_entry=true

Avatar universal
by lyn38972, Aug 22, 2010
I've been taking tramadol for approx five years now...never more than 4- 50 mgs per day, and now down to two pills a day.   i can handle the aches and diarrhea, but I'm wondering how long the depression lasts?  I'm just sooooo down and feel like it's never going to end.  also extremely irritable which are bad combinations when I have a three year old and 11 yr old to take care of.  thx, Lyn

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by madtram, Aug 22, 2010
Hi lyn, tram withdrawal is a bit random but I promise you that this is not forever.

It will take some time for your brain to adjust after 5 years of tram, (I also took it for about that long).  The depression may be just a rebound effect of reducing your dose of the antidepressant component of tramadol which can be easier to deal with.

However, some have found themselves taking tramadol for depression they had before starting the drug & quitting the tram makes them feel worse than ever.

You have to be careful with other serotonin promoting substances while on the tramadol but you could safely introduce a low dose of 5htp or St John's Wort to boost your serotonin levels.  L-tyrosine can help if you are short on energy & motivation but some find it too speedy during withdrawal.

How long have you been on your current reduced dose as if you have only just tapered down, you could give yourself some adjustment time by sitting on this dose until you are more comfortable again.  A very slow taper can help reduce withdrawals.

This thread is an old one, if you copy paste your post on the current thread below, you will get some more responses.

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/216286/Tramadol--Ultram-Recovery-Room-Part-36

You can get through this.

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