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Day 22;  Tramadol CT. You Can't Fool Mother Nature!

Jul 11, 2008 - 240 comments
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Day 22 Cold Turkey Tramadol ...

I woke up HAPPY. I used to wake up happy all the time, before the Tramadol.

Waking up happy is good.

Then I tried to move.

I had to use my hands and arms to get up out of bed. My body has been pushed as far as it will  go.  So after trying all my best tricks (aminos, coffee, food, vitamins, water) I finally stopped the struggle and called in sick for work. Tomorrow will be a busier day anyhow.

I've called in alot this month and last obviously because the taper made me sick and then cold turkey made me sicker.

My coworker asked me if I wanted her to stop by my house with pain killers.

Um.

YES!

But no. No no no. No. No. No. (sigh) No painkillers. I want my life back. There was a full second where I wanted to say YES!!! Not a split second. A complete second. It might been two full seconds, maybe three? ...Which was new for me. A craving? More like; It would be so nice to stop the fight. But we all know what A LIE drugs are.

The offer of pain all over your body and esp in your belly going away!? And someone else will BRING you the pills!? Wow. Sounds too good to be true. (AND IT IS!)

The fact is, there's already pain killers here in the house and I'm not going to take any of those either. I'm not taking anything. I'm going to ice it, lay down, rest and realize that my body has been thru a heelllla fight and it just needs a break, a breath. A moment. A freakity frackity day off. I've been in a tough battle for 21 solid cold turkey days and before that; the taper AKA "Let the pills run out...."

Sometimes, in war, you have to lay in your foxhole and do nothing but wait in silence. There's time for action and there's a time for inaction. To know the difference is good. It is wise.  At the moment I'm beating myself up badly for not being able to move and certainly NOT being able to drive in this state! Come on now; I don't want to hurt anyone because my driving abilities are impaired.

Let's act with intelligence shall we?

Two nights ago, which was day 20, I was driving home from work and my Mom called me.She knows about the Tramadol and the withdrawal. She also knew there was something VERY wrong with me while I was on it. But again, because she knew I had chronic pain and a DOCTOR gave this to me, she didn't say anything and wouldn't really have known to say anything about it.

Anyhow, at first her voice sounded way too loud. Horribly loud. Like a robot almost. A metallic quality to her voice. Mom has turned into a ROBOT!!!

Sound distortion has been really common thru the withdrawal. I told her that it felt like someone had been doing brain surgery on me for the last two hours. Which was true. It's not electrical zaps, like I got when I withdrew from Benzos.It is more like I felt my brain was being reattached to itself. Painful! Very, very painful! Add to this the constant sensitivity to light,

Two steps forward. One step back. Sometimes three steps forward, one step back. Sometimes (like today) One step back. OK. Whatever. I'll just accept it, get as physically comfortable as possible and breathe thru it.

Trying to remember how long it's been? 4 years I would say. Tramadol it's bad bad bad bad bad medicine. I feel terrible for anyone who gets on this thinking it is gonna be easy to get off. Thinking it is "safe" cause their doctor told them it was. It isn't.

Today my stomach (Intestines actually, which have thousands of opiate receptors ... BTW ... and they aren't happy about the no more drugs policy, not at all!) feels like someone strong punched me solidly and HARD. But just once. Not ten times like on day 17 and day 18. It also doesn't feel like I have been stabbed 17 times with a dagger in my gut. So, this is progress.

It is. What it is.

And that is all.

I just accept it. And Like Nancy in my crazy red shoulder padded double breasted BLAZER, I JUST SAY NO TO DRUGS!!!

... and now I'll rest, try and let some of the bad energy of the pain and this last week go so I can work all weekend and next week too. One day at a time. I was pretty sure last night when I got home and was so tired and disoriented that today might be like this.

It is worth it.No matter what. Getting off this stuff will save me a HUGE amount of pain in the future. I liked waking up happy! It reminded me of how I used to wake up pre-Tramadol.

More water, lots of vitamins, ice and rest. Progress and regression. It's all part of the game. You can't fool Mother Nature.

And I'm IGNORING the text message that said,"Let me know if you change your mind and I'll bring you something." Drugs. Pushers. They think they are helping. No more.

I'm down for the count, but I'm not out yet!

Love and healing,
Emily


Comments
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480035 tn?1222369764
by lifesaride, Jul 11, 2008
Emily, I have to commend your resolve. you know what you want and your going for it. WAY TO GO! stay happy

Avatar universal
by Matt19723, Jul 11, 2008
I have had battles with drug addiction over the last 15 years and after everything was said and done I was clean of everything for the last five.  I have had pain in my back for the last 2 years and have taken the normal Advil for it.  When I ended up in the emergency room the second time they gave me the Tramadol.  I agree that this drug is the worst.  I took it for 2 days and felt the effects.  It was so bad, the things that it did to me,  that I flushed the rest of it after the 2 days.  I refuse to take that ever again........  I will deal with the pain and at least I know where I stand.

Avatar universal
by teleology, Aug 24, 2008
I've been on Tramadol for three years but never having tried to get off I didn't know there was a problem as it is given to me on prescription. Only when my ex son in law started asking me for some of mine because he'd run out and was having bad withdrawal symptoms did I realise that they can be addictive. He becomes like a zombie on them and has had life like hallucinations at times. I've always thought my faintness and strange symptoms were side effects of heart drugs they gave me. What is it that people are saying is so bad about Tramadol that I should quit? Can anyone tell me what the side effects are so I can sort them out from my other tablets? I'd be most grateful.  Annette.

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jan 21, 2009
HI EVERYONE!!

Looks like the journal here takes about 250 replies before we all feeze up huh?

more

open

space! :D

Love and Healing,
Emily

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jan 21, 2009
Hi Tramadol Warriors;

So the above post was written six months ago. I have 216ish days off Tramadol. I let my pills run out over maybe a couple of weeks ... and then I stopped cold turkey. I was taking Tramadol (by estimates) for about five years.  Started on 2, and ended up on mostly 8, and by the time I got to ten a day .. many lucky sat I tars aligned and I was DONE. You now when you are done with a pill. Or a bad relationship. Or a job.

For me being done has several elements. The first was that none of the Doctors could get me to a place where I was happily free of pain by whatever chemical means they came up with. I had a car accident in 2000. It herniated two discs and left me with nerve damage in my right leg. So, yeah, I have a close relationship with pain. I know alot about pain.

I also know alot about Tramadol. Well, now I do. Five years back the be all end all cure for chronic pain (which they told me I needed to accept) was passed off on me as a "safer" drug than any opiates. See, the most wicked part is that I NEVER suspected Tramadol as a bad drug, it was always some other pill they gave me that was turning me into a scary panic attacking zombie who walked thru Strange Fog for years. And maybe I had the same kind of, "The Illusion of being able to achieve things wth more ease on Tramadol ... when in fact, everything was falling apart.

So I watched a drawer full of pills grow. More and more pills, less and less relief.

Then; the inciting incident ... A (male) friend of mine ... his fiance jumped off a building while working at the Cannes Film Festival and killed herself. (Cannes just happened or is about to ... so soon it will be a year) ...

Kimmie was enormously beautiful and obviously enormously troubled. She would never let anyone help her. She seemed light, free, bright and shining, but of course NOW ... we all say, "Yes, but she was dark and troubled." Hindsight ... It devastated my friend. He wanted/wants to die .. When I first found out, I called him immediately. He SOBBED into the phone for 40 minutes. The hair on the back of my neck stood up. I went into some kind of deep shock. I think it created a crack in my " Tramadol slowly turning into Tin Man Suit"  ... (if I only had a heart ... and yes, Tramadol tried to take my heart ... turning it cold and numb ... )

I was thinking about Kimmie the day I knew  was done. It actually was a few days before her memorial service. I was staring into the big drawer of pills and suddenly I realized the pills were killing me. Not only were they increasing my pain, but surely taking that many pills could NOT be good? The day of her memorial I was disabled by either the taper, or the cold turkey ... I basically couldn't stand up or act "normal" at that point. So much to my shame and sadness, I missed the service. Which was, in many way, the beginning of a new life for me. A birth into a NON Tramadol state ... a return to self ...

I was also having suicidal ideation. Which is where you can have invasive thoughts of harming yourself. Specifically in my case, "I wish I were dead." Never a variation. Only that one thought; on repeat. It was, of course, coming from the Tramadol. How do I know? Because it vanished. For days at a time. I'd think, "Oh wow .. my head is getting a break from the suicidal loop of one single maddening thought!"

That was a relief, but more startling was the release of huge amounts of pain. Because Tramadol CAUSED and even perpetuated my pain. It basically turns on you quickly and then tries to make you D3 = dead, dead, dead.

Again, hindsight.

If I had known how hard t was going to be, would I have done it? Yes. In fact, I don't think there is much detail about Tramadol withdrawal and what will happen unless you happen to drop in here ...

In the beginning I had people on this site invalidating what i was going thru like mad. Surely it can't be as bad as ________. Then more people showed up. People who had been addicted to cocaine, heroin, speed, booze, other pills and started to lay down some serious truth. Tramadol withdrawal is rough.

You can make it easier. AND you can make it harder. The withdrawal will kick yer butt and take your name. But there's something really wonderful about making it thru. I think for me, there were just so many disturbing feelings during early withdrawal and so much physical pain that I wondered if I was going to "wake up dead." Some of the insomnia was fear of sleep because the dreams were worse than any horror film. And there was also the fact I was concerned I might actually die in my sleep. That was early withdrawal.

And if I had known, what I know now, I would have been comforted to see all the people who made it thru successfully and I would have been warned away from what didn't work and guided to help myself.

I was thinking tonight about ... How June and several months after that seem to have vanished. Gone. Not to mention years in the FOG as a Tram-BOT ... And I was also thinking about how deep inside me was a resistance to getting better. I thought the pills were helping me, not killing me. To decide to consciously DITCH them was a huge task and thank goodness I had no idea ... and at the same time ... as I was tapering I was searching the Internet for ANYONE who had recovered that might give me hope. I didn't find them.  have tried to make us ... easy to find ...

What I found that was helpful I eventually copied and pasted into this journal. I do think, for me, it was so amazing to find other people who were in recovery ... to see them heal was amazing. To heal myself, was a miracle.

But see I was done. Tramadol was rat poison and I was no rat ...

The people who helped me the most, were ex military. Those guys know how to control their mind. To not let Fear run the show. They also know alot about pain pill addiction. Fear is a waste of energy for you if you are starting to withdraw or taper or Cold Turkey Tramadol. Instead, make a plan of attack and go to WAR.

Huge Hugs to all of you on the path. When I started, I was all alone ... talking to myself LOL!! And now ... all of you are sharing tips and discovering new ways t "rebuild."

MadTram (((hugs))) I know how you feel.

Dom I am so happy to see you have recovered a HUGE amount of your mind!:D You sound good, even though you have not slept much, you already sound stronger.

The Freedom of NOT being on Tramadol is intense. No more worry about when, how much, am I going to run out? The slow gradual return to sanity. The return of "being happy" the return of your essence! To be yourself in your own skin again ... the relief is ALMOST as good as NEVER EVER having to take Tramadol ever again!

I healed. You will heal. :D

Patience Grasshopper ..

Love and Healing to all,
Emily

710395 tn?1249143251
by kevzx81, Jan 21, 2009
No one else here yet...guess I'll put the kettle on then..

Day 8 free for me and no physical symptoms today. I'm getting a lot of negative feelings today, anger, no patience, generally grumpy. Its annoying!  I'm even angry at my anger! I dont even know if its the w/d or not, these could be my feelings. I'm not feeling foggy but I'm not feeling clear either. Emotional fog?



728026 tn?1273161159
by harmony986, Jan 21, 2009
Day 17 for me Kev, and I certainly have random feelings like that as well.  Those feelings and the depressed thoughts are much, much less now though.  

And Emily, I was hoping you would post again.  You are such an inspiration to all of us and you put everything in perspective so beautifully.  I was needing a dose of "Emily" just to keep my head in the right place.  Thanks!



Avatar universal
by IzzWizz, Jan 21, 2009
I still feel like that quite alot Kev...just generally in a rotten mood and really angry. My boyfriend must be sick of me! Sometimes it feels like everything is too much hassle..burning the toast is a reason for a big strop! You know how when you cut yourself it gets really itchy and annoying? I feel kind of like that..I was sad all the time but now I just get frazzled and annoyed. I like to think of it as my brain healing in a way like a cut or a burn. Sounds silly now I've written it down but it helps me to make sense of these things.

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jan 21, 2009
Being angry that you are angry ... I remember it well Kev ...

Thanks Hormony!

(((Izz))) How much longer before you get an MRI?

*hot tea all around*

Em

Avatar universal
by IzzWizz, Jan 21, 2009
Ive got an appointment for one next Friday..30th? something like that. I'm panicking a bit because I don't know whether I'm going to be able to lie down flat on my back for 20 minutes. could be quite comical..lol. Trouble is that I only get one chance..also the Health Service is so mean with these scans I'm lucky to be having one at all..lol. They reckon they cost £1500 a pop. I can't afford to pay for one privately on my nurse wages. Oh well..will just have to so my best. The physio thinks I've got a problem with my SI joint which won't even show up on an MRI. He doesn't think the problem is disc related because I don't display any neurological symptoms (could have fooled me but hey ho). Apparently SI joint dysfunction can present as sciatica but its not true nerve root problems.

I keep going over and over it in my head and its doing me no good..all will be revealed if I manage to lie flat. Maybe I can convince them to bash me over the head first :)

Thanks for asking!

710395 tn?1249143251
by kevzx81, Jan 21, 2009
Thanks Harmony, Emily, Izzy good to hear I'm not the only one reduced to tantrums! Shows how a day of no symptoms can lull you into a false sense of security!

I'm invoking my right to whinge...ITS NOT FAIR, I WANT MY MIND BACK....I'm esp miffed because I had to do so much work in the past on SHIFTING negative feelings and NOW I've got to learn to put up with them....NO FAIR.

Trying to seperate my own feelings from the Tram feelings is like....a kitten playing with a ball of string? Herding fish?
A unique experience, thats for sure. Like most of the w/d symptoms riding it out seems the only option.
I'm going out to do some gardening tomorrow wether my back likes it or not, I need the inner therapy of it. I know it probably sounds crazy but theres something incredibly wholesome and satisfying about getting mucky!







689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 21, 2009
Hi everyone, glad I found you.

so sorry Kev and IzzWizz, that you're having a rotten time right now. I still have some random mental days. By that I mean- mood swings, out of body experiences,annoyance at the smallest things.  It will get better! We all just have to listen to Emily.
However, today, I am having a horible time with a toothache. The wanna-rip-my-head off  kind of toothache. I cried in agony last night for 30 minutes, until I finally broke down and asked my husband for a perocet. (He has chronic back issues, multiple surgeries,nerve damage,etc.) But, he is the responsible one of us. Anyway, the perc didnt touch the pain, and today it has been off and on all day. I am trying to get into a dentist tomorrow. (i pis*** my last one off, so I have to find a new one)      fun.
Well, not that anyone is interested, but I caused this whole thing by another addiction of mine. Eating ice. I eat crushed ice all the time. This has been going on for quite some time, and now I have really messed up a few teeth. I crave ice from morning to bedtime.Its nuts!! My hubby has been telling me forever to stop. BUT did I listen? No. Do I ever listen? No.    Well, now I cant eat or barely drink anything. Even a burst of cold air hurts my tooth.
Sorry to bore ya'll with that bit of info. BUT, if anyone has a great idea for a severe toothache.PLEASE let me know.

BTW , IzzWizz- what are a nurses salary where you live?? Just kidding, I know thats a personal question. I am actually comparing different jobs here, and the pay varies quite a bit from a dr.s office to a hospital. Just trying to see wht I can look forward to.

EMILY!!!!!!!! Thanks so much for your post.  I like, Harmony, needed my emily dose.

love to you all,
suzi






732832 tn?1231866819
by Amysdone, Jan 21, 2009
I think I'm on day 8 too, but I've seemed to lost a few days here or there.  I am feeling like the rest of you who are around the same time as myself.  I have days where I'm so bitter and mad that I've had to go through this.  However, today was the best day I've had in years and I have hope.  That is something I didn't have much of even a week ago.  I'm starting to see more light than darkness as far as the w/d symptoms go.  My sneezing has gotten better and my depression seems less, but that is a random thing as well.  Is anyone else having a few good days and then all of a sudden you feel really depressed again?  

Thanks again to Emily who has been an angel to so many of us with her postings.  I don't know what I would have done without some how finding this website!  Some where in my fog, I decided that I had enough of being a slave to those pills and wanted to know how long detox would take.  That is when I found you guys!  I'd still be counting pills had I not found you.  So thank you all for being here!  Even if I don't post often, I am lurking for support :)

Amy

599071 tn?1300072302
by madtram, Jan 21, 2009
Poor Suzi, toothache is the worst & only the dentist has the power to provide true relief.  Have you tried liberal applications of mouth ulcer rinse or gel, (Bonjela or Benzocaine spray, for e.g.).  Less practical, I'm sure, but if you happen to have access to an acupuncturist, this can divert the pain signals, until you can get to the dentist.

Thanks so much to both Emily & for your support yesterday.  I'm still a bit slow but feeling on the up again.  I must be the slowest metaboliser of tramadol in history, I think I have extra stubborn fat cells.

Isn't the random rage interesting.  It only happened to me a few times but on each occasion, I had to avoid even minor conflict as I could seriously picture myself taking a knife to  my husband & this was when I otherwise barely had the energy to leave the bed.

I so agree with you Emily about knowing when you are done.  No matter how whipped I feel, the idea of the poison pills still turns my stomach & this happened even before the aversion therapy of withdrawal kicked in.

Better get back to all the work I haven't been doing for the last few days.  Extra strength to all fellow battlers & gratitude again to our fair host.

M

Avatar universal
by IzzWizz, Jan 21, 2009
Suzi..It funny you should mention out of body experiences..since I stopped taking Tram I get this thing especially when I'm trying to sleep. I lie there and try and to relax and I kind of feel like I'm not in my body and that I'm either looking down on myself or off somewhere else. The first time it happened I thought I was dying! I'm more comfortable with it now but it still freaks me out a bit.

My salary..hmmm. LOL. I live in the UK and we get paid quite a bit less then our american counterparts. I actually started my training in the US because I was living there at the time but I had to come home because my mum was sick and I was homesick. I get paid about £25000 a year..I'm not sure on the exchange rate at the moment so I can't really compare. I also get paid more then other british nurses because I live in London and our gracious government had finally accepted that its an extortionate place to live. I'm also not sure of the ameican grading system but I am a band 6..which here is junior sister..so kind of like junior management. Pay does very between doctors sugeries and hospital but its more about banding..junior nurses begin in the hospital where there is more support for them and tend to work their way up to primary care settings like doctors offices as these positions require them to be more autonomous. I still work in the hospital as I hope to eventually become a clinical nurse specialist in neurosurgery/trauma. None of that probably means anything to you but hopefully can give you something to compare with :)

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 21, 2009
Izz-
Yea, out of body experiences can be quite scary. I am used to them, and it happens a lot actually. In bed, like you said, at the store or when I am in a large group of people, and even just while I am watching tv. It started happening to me when I started taking tram, and got worse when I stopped. Now I just go with it, and eventually it will stop. (I have even felt like I left my body while I was sleeping. And it sure didnt feel like a dream!)  I know, alittle out there.

Your nursing system is interesting.We go by nursing assistants, LPNs, and then RNs. There are others I am sure, but those are the most common. My goal is RN. I dont know anything about the exchange rate, but I appreciate your info. I am so into finding out all I can about nursing now. It has become such a passion to me!  I thought (was hoping) I would replace tramadol with exercise, but I think nursing is it!! LOL

Mad-
oh my, I have used a whole tube of numbing gel. I just want to get to sleep, so tomorrow I can start calling dentists.
That is wonderful that you dont even think about taking the stupid demon pills.
  BECAUSE, I have to admit, today was a test. I didnt have access to any, but with this awful toothache, hmmmm, dont know what I would have done. I did resort to perocet. What would I have done had I had tram???? Dont even wanna go there.

Good-night to you all,
suzi

Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 21, 2009
suzi,  check out arnica i think it is .  homeopathic pain remedy.  i know you think it won't work ,  i woulnd't either,  but i was stuck someplace in the country and i had sudden onset dental agony.  as long as i had one of those pills melting under my tongue i was out of pain.  i went back to a full root canal .

it must be getting annoying my constantly posting remedies and med infor.   i can't help it.  it's the only way i can deal with my life .   i have chronic fatigue majorly .   i have sudden rage attacks.  i have a kind of over reaction to anything stressful.  i could not watch a movie from netflix with nazis.  too upsetting.   i mean i can feel my blood pressure go up and my glands squirting toxic chemicals.  i have brain fog that is so intense it almost hurts.  i can't just drift peacefully in a fog i feel like it's a sort of toxic irritant in my brain.  

my latest theories are about candida.   opiates destroy the gut.   all sorts of positive things are supposed to happen in the gut and since we took opiates our guts are screwed up.  that is the perfect environment for candida which causes bloating and stomach stuff,  low energy,  brain fog, emotional imbalances.  if it gets worse it causes thryoid disfunction adn adrenal exhaustion.  
especially if you are vegetarian.  i am thinking of you kevz.   didn't you eat fruit a lot ?  bad idea.  


mad tram, my heart goes out to you.  i think medicine could be such a great life and yeah,  getting through til you're a doctor is pretty hard on the ole body.

now i know why emily told us to take epsom salt baths.  we all need magnesium and it's not easy to get enough.  baths do it.   also ,  people,  go out and get vitamin d3.   they have changed their minds.   we need a lot more than they thought.  stay out in the sun.    

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 21, 2009
OH EMERGEE!! Yes, I am yelling! We , or I for sure, will never get annoyed at your remedies. Things you recommend have helped. So dont stop posting your knowledge. We all bring different things to this site.
The canida really interests me. I have also been reading about the bodys acid level, and how important it is to keep your body at the correct alkaline level. So, I love this stuff.  I will let you know how my liver tests come out.
I have also been going to tanning bed to get my "sun fix". I know they are not supposed to be good for you, but I dont believe that!

Good-night again.

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jan 22, 2009
Suzi ... try cloves? Or vanilla ... I know one lady who swears by both!
_______________________________________________________________________

Toothache Remedies - Health 911  

Place a whole clove between the aching tooth and your cheek. It can be held in place by holding your finger on the outside of the cheek. Chew the cloves a little to release their juice, then leave them in place for half an hour or so or until the pain subsides. Place it as close to the aching tooth as possible.


Chew cloves or rub clove oil on the tooth. Chew a cloveslowly with the aching tooth to release its juice and leave there for half an hour. Repeat 2-3 times. When applying clove oil you should be careful because too much of it can damage your teeth. Your pharmacist can give you a safe clove oil for your teeth.

Salt water gargle recipe for sore tooth: Mix 1 tablespoon of common salt with 1 cup of warm water. Take a mouthful of this water and move it around the aching tooth. Salt is an excellent astringent. so salt water disinfects the tooth. You can do gargle with this water to act as a salt water sore throat remedy. It is a good idea to do salt-water gargle in the morning and evening to prevent sore tooth and throat.

Peel and crush a clove of fresh garlic and mix it with peanut butter. Apply it to the aching tooth and keep it there for some time. You can use a garlic clove in the same way as emntioned for cloves. They chew on them or just hold them in their mouths.

Add some lime juice to asafetida (hing) spice powder. Soak a piece of cotton and hold it on the tooth and gum.

Burn some turmeric (haldi) spice sticks, make a fine powder and use as toothpowder.

Chew a ginger piece slowly with the aching tooth/teeth to release its juice and leave there for half an hour. Repeat 2-3 times.

Drink the juice of 2-3 star fruit twice a day to get relief from the tooth pain.

Boil 5 gram of peppermint and a pinch of salt in 1 cup of water. Drink it to relieve toothache and other pains. You can use peppermint mouthwash.

Pour a few drops of Vanilla extract on the paining tooth.

Pour a few drops oil of oregano on the paining tooth or gum.

Gargle with Listerine Antiseptic.

Hope that helps!
Em


710395 tn?1249143251
by kevzx81, Jan 22, 2009
Suzi..a friend of mine had a very painful cavity recently and used clove oil from the chemist/drugstore, it not only stopped the pain but cleared the infection too. It can irritate the lips,gums etc if over used. A must for everyones medicine cabinet and very cheap!

I have to say my heart goes out to you...Tram w/d AND toothache.....have you murdered anyone yet!!!!


710395 tn?1249143251
by kevzx81, Jan 22, 2009
Emergee...yes I ate a lot of fruit..I figured more enzymes= better digestion plus I'd get lots of vit c. And no it did'nt work, I got a lot of heartburn. I was getting fruit cravings at the time, now its protein cravings. Lock up your pets!!!

Avatar universal
by ultraumatized, Jan 22, 2009
suzi- i also had a friend with a terrible tooth problem that used clove oil & it worked really well...of course you may smell a little like an xmas ham, but it should help.

19 days free here...i'm still having terrible mood swings & no energy...it seems like i'm fine when i first get up, but as the day wears on i just get completely sapped out...by 3 or 4 in the afternoon i can barely function.  i've been trying to take naps but then i don't sleep well at nite.  i didn't take one yesterday & slept all the way thru last nite, i think that's the first time i've done that in a very long time!  i'm also having problems with crying again...over stupid little things...if someone on tv is super happy or super sad i just start boo-hooing before i even have a chance to think!  it's really annoying...at least the sneezing is finally on it's way out...i only have a couple attacks each day.

for those of you who have been off the tram for more than a few weeks...when does the depression & lack of energy finally subside?  the times i've quit for more than 30 days have been few & far between & i don't think i've ever gone long enough to completely lose the symptoms of withdrawal before starting back on the meds...i have NO PLANS to start again this time, but i'm heading into unknown territory & need to know there is a light somewhere at the end of the tunnel.

thanks for all your posts guys...you're definitely helping keep me clean.

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jan 22, 2009
"for those of you who have been off the tram for more than a few weeks...when does the depression & lack of energy finally subside?  the times i've quit for more than 30 days have been few & far between & i don't think i've ever gone long enough to completely lose the symptoms of withdrawal before starting back on the meds...i have NO PLANS to start again this time, but i'm heading into unknown territory & need to know there is a light somewhere at the end of the tunnel." -Ulttramatized

It took me about 60 days .. by day 77 no more symptoms at all ....

Just try to pace yourself. Gentle with yoursef now :D

Love and healing,
Em

Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 22, 2009
ultra,  
   i think it has to do with how old you are,  what health probems you had before the tram,  and how long you took the tram.  i don't know if anyone feels this way, but i need a post-tram support group.   i haven't wanted to really let loose about my complaints for fear of scaring the newomers.  

thank suzi,  you are so sweet.  i wish you well with the tooth.  it doesn't rain but it pours.  ( god,  i haven't heard that one in so long)

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 22, 2009
Thanks to all for the tooth help. I didnt get the messages until tonight, and all I have at home right now is vanilla. gonna try it.
I am getting it pulled on monday. My dentist wanted to do a root canal, BUT I cant afford that at this time.  Its ridiculous how expensive a root canal and crown are. stupid expensive.So a few more days, and then it'll be gone. Will get clove oil
or arnica tomorrow.
Hey Kev, I will say I came close today! (murder ,that is) Actually just really wanted to beat someone up. (and all 5 of my pets are under lock-n-key!  LOL)

Ultra- I am still having major crying fits, and I am at 2 months. I am sure this is because my emotions were stifled so long on tram , that now I am breaking free, and feel everything. You're right, it doesnt matter if its a happy or sad cry.
I just got done watching Greys Anatomy, and oh my gosh- I cried thru the whole show. I think about the birth of my children and, BOOM, waterworks galore! Then of course I have to stop whatever I am doing and go hug them.
Its non stop.  But, ya know what?  It beats taking tramadol anyday. It feels good to FEEL things again. So, go with it.  You'll feel better.
Em- A post-tram support group would be great. I agree.

Take care and love to you all,
suzi






710395 tn?1249143251
by kevzx81, Jan 22, 2009
Well I'm definitely seeing Trams random unpredictable side , the anxiety is back though much milder than before and I'm getting twitchy legs for the first time.(thats what just woke me up)
The weather hasnt helped either, I managed to spend a couple hours on my allotment before the rain started up again.
The restless energy is the worst problem right now as Its too cold and wet to go out and I've already done all the housework.

I'm totally not used to dealing with boredom it doesnt usually get a look in but for the past few weeks all my usual activities are useless to me. Playing guitar is a total washout ,same for writing music because I'm just not relaxed enough. The weather has been high winds or rain 5 days of the last 6 and I'm feeling very stir crazy.
I'll have to come up with a new hobby or something........







Avatar universal
by ultrapest2, Jan 22, 2009
Hello again everyone
     Had some major computer issues, got a new one, now I'm back. I've been off Tramadol for 6 full days. I'm not feeling any better at all. The restlessness just won't quit. I was freezing due to a fever. I had a touch of the flu which didn't help any. I literally have slept about 9 hours in 6 days.
     Had some blood drawn, and some tests for autoimmune disorders. I'm healthy as a horse (except LDL is high, and triglicerides) I know there's light at the end of the tunnel, but when am I going to see the light. As i said I still feel the same as I did on day 1. I'm going to see if Ambien works for me tonite.
     Here's my question. For my fellow cold turkeyers, how long did your withdrawal last before you started to see a decrease in the symptoms?
     Thanks for being there. It's good to be back.

Respect
Dominic

Avatar universal
by ultraumatized, Jan 23, 2009
emily-thanks for the info...i've never made it past a month, so i don't think i ever had time to fully recover...knowing that it DOES end helps a lot.  

emergee-i'm 33 & haven't had any serious health problems, i was diagnosed w/major depression after the birth of my daughter & was on & off ssri meds for several years but think some of it was due to the depo shot i was getting for awhile. most likely just going on & off pain meds so often wasn't helping either, so i'm hoping now that i'm clean it will pass before long.

kev-i understand how you feel, not being able to relax & get into normal activities you once enjoyed...i'm in a situation where i'm being forced to be creative & let me tell you, it's not working so well (i have a big art show coming up in a couple of months w/a lot of deadlines to meet)...i'm slowly trying to get back into the groove, but it's taking major effort.  i've been trying to read a lot to pass the restlessness...when nothing seems interesting enough i'm just going back & reading old books i once enjoyed...it's helped some.

dom-i pretty much went cold turkey (from 15 pills a day down to 0 within 5 days)...the worst of my physical symptoms were over by about the 5th or 6th day w/minor ones lasting only a couple days longer.  at 20 days the emotional/psychological withdrawal has yet to disappear...emily says maybe 2 months?  i hope it happens sooner, but knowing they will eventually pass is good enough for now.

good luck to all you guys!


419772 tn?1266240939
by roddy132, Jan 23, 2009
Hi All,
        Not posted for a while must admit having probs with the little grey cells.  Tapered down to 100mgs from 400mgs few month ago but must admit having a hard time with the anxiety and depression side of things. For sure those of you who may be more sensitive to anxiety and depression, coming off the Tram is going to aggravate these feelings due to the chemical makeup of the drug but please dont forget this will get better and better each day.  I know just how tempting it is when stress at work or home hits you,or the feelings become so challenging,  to just pop another Tram but dont forget the battle you have had to get where you are now with all the accompanying bad feelings both emotional and physical WE ARE NOT GOING BACK THERE. so keep focussed and strong in mind  IT WILL GET BETTER.

I really do want to thank Emily for providing this platform for us victims to meet and hear each others stories.  It helps enormously to be touched by others who stories are individual but very similar in many ways.  I hope this post makes sense, at the moment i am  feeling the Tram fog decending. My thoughts are with everyone who post on here and on similar forums, of which there are many. Boy is this poison a prob that needs addressing SOMEHOW

Take Care Rod

Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 23, 2009
i don't know whether this symptom rings a bell: not being able to concentrate.  when you say boredom kevz,  i wonder if that is what i would describe as add.   i think i am going to read something,  then i try to settle on it ,and quickly i jump up and choose something else.   nothing seems to quite grab my attention long enough to really sink in and enjoy it.   it's like taking hold,  getting a grip,  is very hard,  the usual magnetism isn't working.  what draws you on to some pursuit isn't there like it was.  
i am pretty sure this is a dopamine thing.   i had a big obvious dopamine problem so i looked into it.  the thing is- the cure for it is exactly what you want in the first place- to be happy and enjoy things.   i think i read that hugs are good,   sex is good for it.  
ultrapest,   i remember day 5 was great,  then day6 was bad again.   then the worst was over and it became the long slow uphill.
ultrauma,  i have been doing a ton of research and someone may get mad at me here,  but i am finding ssris are not a good thing for your long term health.
i have the crying thing.  but i find that crying about beautiful or happy stuff is just as stressful to the body.  i hear a piece of beautiful music and i cry in the car.  i cried at the coffee place and i had to put the newpaper up in front of my face. i see a movie about art stolen by the nazis and i can't take it.  

701000 tn?1231964233
by 1113, Jan 23, 2009
hi all....

I would just like to say great job to all who are still fighting.    Ultra, i have been really impressed with what you have achieved so far.  Please keep it up.  

I have been on 50mgs - 75mgs this past week and I haven't noticed a physical difference, but i am constantly fighting the mental fight.  there have been a few occasions this week that I caught myself thinking....  "you've done good on night a good dose won't hurt ya"  

i haven't given in yet.


On a good note, my wife and I have put an offer on a house last night.  kind of out of the blue, but if it's accepted i think it would be awesome because it would be a great opportunity to change my surroundings once i make the big jump.  

Avatar universal
by ultraumatized, Jan 23, 2009
1113-good luck with the house!  since i've gotten off the tram i am dying to move out of my apartment...it just seems to have an ick all over it...too many memories of meds here!  gotta stick thru my lease for a few more months tho...at least by that time i'll hopefully be better recovered & have no associations of tramadol or any other drug in a new place.

emergee-i totally agree w/the ssri thing.  i got bad postpartum depression & then went on the depo shot which just made it unbearable.  rather than helping me understand what was actually going on, my doc at the time just started pushing ssri meds on me...i've tried nearly all of them over the past 10 years & had a horrible-thought-i-was-going-to-die reaction to prozac...i finally got off all of them last fall & that's something else i never plan to do again...i just don't think anything that screws around with your brain chemistry can be good for a person in the long run.

thanks for listening guys, talking about this really makes me feel my ability to make the right choices is stronger than ever.

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 23, 2009
Emergee- I also agree with the ssri thing. However, I have been on zoloft for  very long time. I only take 50mg a day, and my dr. has tried to up my dose to 150mg. I just wont do it. But at the same time, the reason I dont go off of it is because I am terrified. I have a long history of panic attacks, and when I was first put on it, it actually helped to control them. I was having 10 plus attacks a day. It was horrible. I thought many times that I was dying. My panic disorder manifested into actual physical symptoms. I just cant bring myself to go off of zoloft, even tho I know it is bad for me. I am so afraid the attacks will start again. I tried most of the other meds and nothing worked. I have tried visualization and relaxation techniques, and nothing. so basically I am just scared.  I also didnt mean to downplay the crying thing. I think sometimes I try to be positive about things hoping that it will turn into a positive thing.  Lack of concentration is still a big problem with me as well.

1113- I wish you well with your house buying. I have found it is nice to be somewhere that tramadol has not been.
Good luck to you.




714730 tn?1249682539
by HOPEreturns, Jan 23, 2009
Hello everyone... I'm reading all of the posts and not finished yet.... wanted to stop in between my reading.  SUZI... you commented on craving ice.... you may be anemic or have pica....... You need to get a CBC.  Have your hematocric and hemoglobin checked.  I'm sure you have heard of PICA... its when a person craves strange things due to some sort of deficiency in the body.

I need to read more to catch up on everthing I missed.  Thanks for the message KEV!!

Will talk to you all soon!

Love Hope

714730 tn?1249682539
by HOPEreturns, Jan 23, 2009
Docklc,

Most of us in this forum have addictive personalities.  For tramadol not to effect you the way it has effected the rest of us here, tells me that you do not suffer from addictions.  As far as blaming the medication.....I DO!  This medication is chemically structured differently than hydrocodone, oxycontin, etc.  It chemically changes one's brain if taken regulary (like we all have done in this forum)It has an antidepressant and analgesic in it.  YES, some of us have definitly taken more than prescribed.... we are addicts.

In brief: I blame mostly myself, but I put blame on the medication too.  We are each others support in this forum.  We each are entitled to an opinion and I have many more opinions.  However, I'm going to hold some of those opinions that I am having right now because I do not want to come across as being rude.

Hope

599071 tn?1300072302
by madtram, Jan 23, 2009
I completely agree with Emergee's comment that the length & extent of withdrawals will be very individual but particularly influenced by how long you took tram; age &  overall physical & mental condition.  For me, recovery seems slow, maybe as a result of being 48; on tram for 5ish years pre CT; while on tram worked very long hours in high stress job so tram was masking a lot of the side effects of this plus the usual drama of getting two teenagers to make it through to young adulthood, (just about there, whoop, whoop).  Tram also turned my hormones down.  (Squeamish boys, stop reading for the next few lines).  Although my periods continued to be regular, they were much lighter, now everything, including full-on PMT has kicked backed in.

Re hormones, for those who have been on depo provera, it would totally explain depression onset, it's a particularly nasty synthetic form of progesterone best avoided, IMO.

Re SSRIs, the news is not all bad, they have been found to grow new neural connections, which is definitely a good thing.  Everyone's biochemistry is individual but there is no doubt that some of us are naturally low in serotonin and benefit from supplementation.  I find 5htp & St John's Wort work well for me.

Suzi, I wouldn't worry about the Zoloft, it obviously works for you.  If your doctor is talking about raising the dose, it sounds as though it may be pooping out on you a little, which is common after long term use.  You could try counteracting this by adding 50mg of 5htp a day to see if this helps.  Generally adding 5htp to SSRIs is contraindicated due to risk of serotonin syndrome but you are on a low dose of Zoloft & some psychiatrists have reported better results with low doses of the two together. If this works, this would give you the option of tapering off the zoloft & replacing with 5htp.  Some psychs will say, why bother, there is less quality control over the 5htp & it's more expensive but the advantage is that it's a precursor to serotonin which means that your body is still regulating the amount of serotonin itself which seems to result in less side effects and no tolerance issues which are produced by selectively blocking serotonin receptors.

Dom, don't know how healthy your diet is but high cholesterol is a side effect of long term tram use, due to reduced liver function.  Are you taking anything to support your liver? N-acetyl-cysteine & St Mary's thistle are good, there are supplements that contain both.  Boosting your liver function will help the detox process.  At 6 days you should be due to turn the corner any day now.  If you can get some sleep via the ambien, that alone should make a big difference.

Me too, for the post-tram support idea.  Should we start a new thread so newbies aren't discouraged by longer termers still discussing recovery.  On the other hand, there may still be some info that's useful for all.  Emily P, do you have a view, you seem to be completely recovered but still have your pain management challenges to deal with.  Avis talks a lot about post withdrawal after-care & I think this forum is it for me.  I would also be interested in hearing anyone's experience with non-drug therapies, as we get further out.  I fully believe in self-hypnosis for instance but somehow, I haven't been able to get back into it yet, my concentration levels seem to be all used up in studying.

Wishing new happy cells to all,

Michelle

Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 23, 2009
stress sufferers,  there may be an easy fix.   aldosterone is bad,  we should get rid of it.  it causes anxiety and low dopamine.  molybdemum , 150 mcg 2x day,  could work.   there are reasons why are natural pathways to get rid of it aren't working so well , but you may not care.   it could be a cheap and easy fix.  

Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 23, 2009
did anyone pick up on the idea of DOC lkc or whatever?   the enemy.

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 23, 2009
To doc lkc-
I stand behind Hope and Emergee. I wasnt even going to reply, but........I kinda have to.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Peroid.

That about sums it up.




710395 tn?1249143251
by kevzx81, Jan 23, 2009
To Docklc.........NO.



710395 tn?1249143251
by kevzx81, Jan 23, 2009
Emergee- 3 great ideas, one of them works. 1 out of 3 is a good score for anti-Tram strategies. No sex or hugs available
at the moment but I did try going through the motions of things I enjoy today. I went hobby shopping with a friend and bought myself an indoor garden set-up and brought some strawberry plants home from the allotment. So now Ive got something new to do and the grow light is great just to sit near! I feel better than I did yesterday, I have some energy and motivation so something worked!

Ultra- Id love to hear more about your upcoming show...whats the brief...
I think my confidence would be shaky if I had to produce any work right now, hows it going for you? For me its a discontinuity thing, the focus of my concentration keeps drifting. The energy just wont build like it usually would.

Emergee- The idea of sex right now is quite comical given my attention span....a lady could feel quite insulted lol.

Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 23, 2009
i can't quite decide which i am laughing harder at.     "docklc...no",
OR  "I wasnt even going to reply, but........I kinda have to. "  
OR  " No sex or hugs available "

thank you, that was a brief respite from the brain fog.  the brain fog is now painful.  i don't know how to describe it.   painful fog?



kevzx,  i thought it was a strange idea too.  but more than once have i read that .  


Avatar universal
by IzzWizz, Jan 23, 2009
Docklc

What do you think all of these 100's of posts have been about? For a drug that you didn't find 'addictive' I sure had some scary-*** withdrawals...and no, I wasn't managing my medication badly and yes, it was prescribed exactly as its meant to be. I wasn't on any other medication and I only took it for 4 months. I have never had any addiction problems prior to this and to say what happened is my fault is ludricrous. I didn't over-use the drug and it controlled my pain. Read back a bit..this forum is loaded with people who have suffered for months or even years at the hands of tramadol addiction and withdrawal...hundreds of us. Why dont you try and stop taking it for a while and await the anxiety ridden pain wracked fog that we all suffered.

Good news guys...A friend of mine was prescribed Trams today for accute back pain and he was actually councilled by an addiction councillor and advised of its side effects  (true side effects) and how best to take it to avoid addiction and withdrawal. Apparently this is commom practice where he lives...Norway. But I thought hey..if Norway knows it everyone else has got to catch on sooner or later!

744864 tn?1232784827
by slowbutsteady, Jan 24, 2009
Hi Everyone,

I've been reading these threads since Jan 08 and I feel I know some of you so well.   I'm ashamed to say not only did it take me a year of reading your posts, but a surprise pregnancy (I'm currently 26 weeks) to get me off Tramadol.  I've never been addicted to anything in my life!  (I put more in my profile) God bless you all for writing.  I found your posts so helpful getting though my first week of T-withdrawls.  

I'm on day 21 T-free.  The random withdrawls are awful.  It's my head and tongue that feel so funky, tingly and like I have a permanent cold.  Did anyone else have this feeling?  It's so tough for me to tell what is simply pregnancy related and what is actual withdrawl.  During all my pregnancies I've had rls and nose congestion (complete blockage is more like it).  Anyone else familiar with withdrawls while being pregnant?  

Emily how did you do it on day 22? (say no to pain meds that is)  I finally took a Tylenol 3 tonight because I couldn't stand feeling bad any longer.  Relief!!  HOWEVER, it's nothing compared to the first 3 days.  I wanted to die!  I never came out of my bathroom; it was me, my laptop and these posts that occupied the master bath for those 36 hours.  Thank goodness for my husband and my mother.  They kept the kids going on their normal routines so that family life could be as normal as possible outside my bathroom hell.

There is so much more I'd love to write.  So much more to tell, but believe it or not, I'm feeling sleepy.  (maybe it's the Tylenol 3)  Here's hoping I'll catch a few zzz's.

Thanks again ALL for your wisdom, support, and help through this awful mess.
C

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Jan 24, 2009
Hello all:

It's been one kick *** week at work for me and this is really my first opportunity post in some time.  I haven't taken this TERRIBLY ADDICTIVE rat pooh since 12/1 and by and large, I feel so much better than I did even a month ago.  

It is REALLY true that tramadol INCREASES or hightens pain.  When I was taking 8/day-  I had pains not only in those places that tramadol was prescribed for my pain initially, but my whole body ached and as I have said before, I seriously thought that I had come down with fibromyalgia in the last few years this drug lied to me.  I know other people here have  reasons FOR why their pain remains.  And yet you report things are better off the drug than on it.  In my case however, I am pain free today...go figure!

I must confess, I have been slow to blame other difficulties I still have on my past tramadol use or on ongoing withdrawal.  So I'll start and the front end and work backwards.  I really don't want to believe that I have been "victimized" by my use of this drug or by stopping to take it.  YET FACT:  My productivity at work is about 60-70% of what it was before I stopped taking tramadol.  And that is becoming a problem as I get further and further behind with each passing week.

AFTER THE NORMAL 3-5 DAYS OF EARLY WITHDRAWAL, I returned to work on day 7.  That day my eyes had a difficult time seeing my monitor, I lacked ANY sort of focus and I was not making decisions that needed to be made.  I read but could not comprehend well and I found myself re-reading things OVER AND OVER for comprehension.  I was essentially a pretty butt in a chair.  

Slowly, I have thought that things have improved and I believe that they have.  But I find myself less willing (or able) to work those REALLY long days like before.  And my concentration is still not what it was.  As a result, I find myself frustrated, angry at myself, sad, and really stressed by how far behind I am falling.  How many times can you tell clients "I haven't gotten to that yet, call me next week"?  

So that is where I am at.  Like I said, I tend not to look for excuses for my shortcomings, but rather my way is to normally find a way to succeed.  But whatever is going on with me, it is getting to me and kicking my emotional butt.  There is no way in HELL that I will ever take another tramadol, but I share this simply to illustrate how frustrated I am at falling further and further behind at work.

On balance however, I am so glad to be off the TRAM-A-GO-ROUND.  And I think thata what we know about the damage done by this EVIL drug isn't the half of it.  For example, Michelle, I had no idea that prolonged tramadol use will raise havoc with one's liver.  Yikes!  

Finally, DOCLKC, I am so sorry that you have DDD, but it sounds like you are finding at least some relief with a variety of meds and excercise.  The pain must be pretty severe however, if you are considering surgery.  Disckectomy/fusion surgery carries no guarantees but I wish you the very best.  Life is so precious and I sincerely wish you good luck in finding something that will enable you to be active again without pain.  No fun.

But that said, I STRONGLY DISAGREE with your notion that "tramaodol isn't addictive".  

I kindly respect your right to have an opinion other than mine, BUT my opinions are:

THIS DRUG WAS MARKETED WITHOUT ADEQUATE TESTING.

A HIGH NUMBER OF PHYSICIANS LACK ANY UNDERSTANDING OF THE ADDICTIVE PROPERTIES OF THIS DRUG.  

IN MOST PEOPLE, A TOLERANCE IS BUILT UP OVER TIME AND MORE AND MORE OF THE DRUG IS REQUIRED TO DO LESS AND LESS.

PHYSICAL ADDICTION CAUSES AWFUL WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS.  How could that be if the drug was as pure as you suggest?

Like Izzy said above, "What do you think all of these 100's of posts have been about? For a drug that you didn't find 'addictive' I sure had some scary-*** withdrawals...and no, I wasn't managing my medication badly and yes, it was prescribed exactly as its meant to be. I wasn't on any other medication and I only took it for 4 months. I have never had any addiction problems prior to this and to say what happened is my fault is ludricrous."

But while I strongly disagree with your opinions, I do wish you well.  Physical pain is no fun any way you look at it, huh?

Courage, Strength and Health to all

Fred

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jan 24, 2009
Grrrrrrrrrr..............

Reported for abuse, blocked and deleted.

That was a clear case of, "intentional infliction of emotional distress."

And frankly, it sounded like The Tramadol was Talking. Chatty little bugger!

Sorry that happened. The last thing any of you (or even me) needs now is a good scolding about how it is, 'not the fault of the drug.'

I don't believe a single word. Repeat after me; taking Tramadol intermittently and randomly is ... yes .. dangerous. No Doctor ever prescribed Tramadol that way. Because going on and off, thus changing a dose, means you are sky rocketing your risk for Grand Mal Seizure and possibly death.

Yeah. What a safe drug ... NOT!

You all can always report something for abuse, then send me a message ... and I will come and take a look and delete. This is not a place to debate. No one here is a friend of Tramadol. Make no mistake; this drug can and will kill you. It is not addictive?

Tell that to the countries and states that just reclassified it. Do some RECENT research.

Moving On. Roddy I am so sorry that at the end of the taper you are having such difficulties. It will get better. I think the exhaustion and pain are getting to you. You really do have my very best thoughts. (((hugs)))

Slow But Steady; Day 22, you can see me locking in. I did a Thomas Method w/d and as already on Klonopin. Not a pain killer, but a Benzo. I used a little codeine, soma and OTC drugs. Day 22; looks like I refused to take anything. I was starting to get pissed off then, which helps! Be soft and gentle with yourself. YOU need that alot now. You have no idea how happy I am that our words helped you in those days. I'm HONORED to be able to help you at that horrible never to be repeated time .... All of us are honored to be able to help.  know there are lurkers and people we never hear from.

The real idea of the group is to connect like minded people. We can talk, bounce ideas around. Eventually make it less painful.

Oh and slow but steady i also felt like I had a "perminant cold." It was ridiculous! But it all goes away. It takes time. Congrats on your pregnancy!

Emergee ... You write,
"i can't quite decide which i am laughing harder at.     "docklc...no",
OR  "I wasn't even going to reply, but........I kinda have to. "  
OR  " No sex or hugs available "

I'm laughing too!

You also write, "thank you, that was a brief respite from the brain fog.  the brain fog is now painful.  i don't know how to describe it.   painful fog? kevzx,  i thought it was a strange idea too.  but more than once have i read that."

Yep. There's Plain Fog and Painful Fog. But; it goes away! :D

((((Kev)))) You write, "Ultra- Id love to hear more about your upcoming show...whats the brief...
I think my confidence would be shaky if I had to produce any work right now, hows it going for you? For me its a discontinuity thing, the focus of my concentration keeps drifting. The energy just wont build like it usually would. "

My Continuity and sense of time got terribly messed up. It was as f my life was a movie, and someone kept splicing things in out of sequence. Like many Tramadol symptoms it was/is unique and random.

I also think one idea out of three that works for Tramadol is a great score!

I like Suzipen's .."You have no idea what you are talking about. Period."

Suzipen; you are usually pretty even tempered .. it made me smile. Bits and pieces of true self coming back ..

Emergee what is molybdenum , 150 mcg 2x day? And yes, the enemy is correct. We're here to help each other.

First Michelle, You're a Doll and Thank you! So much good info ... I think we're in post Tram Support aren't we? I don't think the acute newbies and the Post trams should be separated. Because we are actually not discouraging people by telling them the truth. All I was looking for in early withdrawal was a post tram survivor to tell me what to expect and when it would be over and what they did ... I think there is power in the way it is done now ... But ... (always room for improvement!) ...

I Do think a separate entry with specific information in it ... to aid recovery would be useful. We get some questions asked many times .. a FAQ section would be good. Fred was kind enough to Message me with his thoughts regarding the Tramadol Warrior team ... Thanks Fred!

(((Ultra))))

More soon!

Love and healing,
Emily


Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Jan 24, 2009
Slowbutsteady,  You are another of the "tens of lurkers" like Amy and so many others that we aren't blessed to hear from at the start.  

You said, "I'm ashamed to say not only did it take me a year of reading your posts, but a surprise pregnancy (I'm currently 26 weeks) to get me off Tramadol.  I've never been addicted to anything in my life! "  NO reason be be ashamed by any of this.  I am finding that regardless of how "good' we are or what or our individual background may be" tramadol takes us all prisioner.  Cogratuations on your pregnancy and for being off tram for 21 days.  YAY Slow!!!

And thanks Emily for the strong response to doclic. (ops, I mean doclkc)

Slowbutsteady, now that you mentioned it I have been VERY congested since I stopped taking tramadol.  I remarked to my wife this evening that it sems like I have had a permanent cold the past two months.  (which doesn't help the sleep now does it?)  Sorta goes with the crazy sneezing.  No accounting for this drug's places or things it work on.  

All I know is we are each so very blessed that we had that moment of clarity when we came to teh point that we realized that this was killing us and at the same time, we found hope for a way out.

Thanks Emily.  I will always and forever will be grateful.

Fred



710395 tn?1249143251
by kevzx81, Jan 24, 2009
Hi everyone- in true unpredictalbe Tramadol form today has started well,so far. By which I mean no anxiety of big emotions floating around, just feeling restless and tired.

Emergee- glad you can share my humour re sex in Tram w/d, its not often I've laughed out loud these past weeks, but that did it.....I agree sex is naturally therapeautic(usually) but Im also aware of how much energy it burns. I guess its only natural to have low libido when feeling unwell but Tram w/d has wiped my libido totally. Would'nt say no to a hug though!

Emily- re doc, good work with the scissors. gives a new meaning to 'cut the cr*p' ! Thank you.

Fred- good to hear from you again, its been a while. It really ***** having to let people down and I guess your profession gives you less rope than many in that regard. I hope it works out for you soon, and for others suffering at work. Im lucky in that regard ie the worst that can happen is that some notes wont get played, or will come out wrong. not exactly world changing thankfully!

Rod- Hope you have a good weekend, I see you're really pushing your taper hard and while I share your urgency to get well, I hope you dont push yourself too hard, esp with the anxiety symptom going on. I guess a long taper must really test your patience though....

Emergee- on a serious note, what you said about the cure being to be happy and enjoy things seemed trite at first but I decided to 'go through the motions'  AS IF I was enjoying my usual activities. It worked with the gardening to some extent, hence my decision to grow some plants indoors. I cant decide wether I was just being lazy or if the w/d has worn me down more than I realized.

Well I'm off to water some strawberries.......

Avatar universal
by hcii, Jan 24, 2009
Just wanted to let y'all know that there is SOME progress in the US concerning the abuse and addictiveness of Tramadol....

Here in Kentucky, it has just been re-classified as a CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE....Kentucky has found that there is GREAT potential for abuse....Now, it is treated the same as any other opiate...finally....

They discovered that people found that they could use the drug as a substitute for opiates...especially younger people who had limited finances and could buy Tramadol off the "street" for next to nothing...

Just thought this may be a "picker-upper" for some of you today.  There is at least some people taking notice....

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jan 24, 2009
Good for Kentucky!!

Thanks for letting us know hci!

Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 24, 2009
he outer cortex of your Adrenals produces the hormones cortisol, aldosterone, testosterone, DHEA, DHEAS, androstenedione and estrogens. And both cortisol (a glucocorticoid) and aldosterone (a mineralcorticoid) are vital and important players in your health and well-being. When your adrenals become fatigued, they don’t make enough cortisol. And though low cortisol does not always equal low aldosterone, there may be a significant body of thyroid patients who with their low cortisol have low aldosterone!

WHAT IS ALDOSTERONE? Aldosterone is the principal of a group of mineralocorticoids. It helps regulate levels of sodium and potassium in your body–i.e. it helps you retain needed salt, which in turn helps control your blood pressure, the distribution of fluids in the body, and the balance of electrolytes in your blood.

WHAT HAPPENS IF ALDOSTERONE GETS TOO HIGH OR LOW? When aldosterone gets too high, your blood pressure also gets too high and your potassium levels become too low. You can have muscle cramps, muscle weakness, and numbness or tingling in your extremities.

But when it gets too low, which can be common in patients with cortisol deficiency, your kidneys will excrete too much salt, and it leads to low blood pressure; low blood volume; a high pulse and/or palpitations, dizziness and or lightheadedness when you stand; fatigue; and a craving for salt. Symptoms of low aldosterone can also include frequent urination, sweating, and a feeling of thirst, besides the craving of salt.

Another clue that your aldosterone may be too low is being on high amounts of HC, such as 30-40 mg, and not getting good results.

WHAT ROLE DOES SALT PLAY? Being on a salt-restricted diet only makes low aldosterone levels worse. Adding salt, but specifically sea salt, can be beneficial, and is in fact recommended to all thyroid patients with low aldosterone. Sea salt contains important trace minerals, whereas they are mostly removed from table salt. Recommended amounts daily are 1/4 to 1/2 tsp in water twice a day…and some go higher, if needed. If you end up needing a great deal more salt, you might have to consider Florinef, mentioned below.

Bob, a patient with excellent knowledge of low aldosterone, states: People with low aldosterone sufferer from “Salt Wasting”, a medical term describing sodium leaving the body. When sodium is excreted it takes water with it, causing frequent urination and dehydration. The body will struggle to maintain a proper balance of sodium and potassium in the blood - and these levels often appear normal on blood tests. But within the cells of the body, improper balance of these minerals can lead to fatigue, and is the reason why the pupils will fluctuate when performing the “flashlight test”. Persons with low levels of aldosterone crave salt. If they will take a minimum of 1/2 teaspoon of Sea Salt daily their symptoms improve. The “Salt Wasting” still occurs, but the symptoms of improper electrolyte balance will often improve, and they will feel more energy.”

Additionally, when the adrenals are not making aldosterone, a hormone from your kidneys increase–called renin. If the renin is low, you could have a pituitary problem.

HOW DO I TEST FOR ALDOSTERONE? Testing for aldosterone will be either a 24 hour urine test or a blood test–the latter which is more highly recommended. It may also be important to avoid all salt for 24 hours before the test. It’s worthy to note that aldosterone levels can be doubled if you are pregnant, and are normally a little higher in children than in adults. For a complete picture, ask your doctor to include your renin for a complete picture, as well as sodium and potassium. See a testing facility without a prescription below.

You can also try a self-test–the pupil test, listed in Discovery Step Two on the Adrenal page.

IF YOU HAVE READ THIS FAR THEN YOU ARE SEMI-INTERESTED.  WHAT WE HAVE GONE THROUGH DETOXING HAS DEPLETED ADRENAL FUNCTION.   --EMERGEE

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by harmony986, Jan 24, 2009
I take Adrenal Stress End to support my adrenals when I feel fatigued, like today.  It includes vitamins b,c, tyrosine and adrenal cortex.  My surgeon recommends it to her patients after surgery.  Just have to be careful not to overstimulate.  If you can't get out of bed in the morning, you know that your adrenals are fatigued.  Most women in their 40's going through peri/menopause also have adrenal fatigue and their bodies/adrenals can't make the necessary hormones as your ovaries are shutting down.Women with adrenal fatigue going into their change will almost definitely need hormone replacement. Men go thru andropause.

After my surgeries, I was also given a prescription for vit b-12 shots.  It helps me tremendously.  For those of you suffering from severe fatigue, that is the first thing I would recommend.  If you can find a dr to give you a shot, it would be well worth your time.  I do 3ml/wk. , but 1 ml will help also.  Madtram can probably add to this.

I have to add, though, even though I did my b12 shot this week, I am FATIGUED today, which happens to be day 20 for me.  I am reducing my GABA, and am noticing a huge decrease in energy, just like a lot of others here.  I have said this before, I do not know which is worse, the severe fatigue, or the anxious energy ....lol...just hoping it all settles down.

599071 tn?1300072302
by madtram, Jan 24, 2009
Great post on the adrenals, Emergee.  Vitamin Research Products have a good formula, "CortiTrophin", it contains adrenal & liquorice extracts plus potassium.  As Harmony says, you need to cycle with these products to avoid overload & damaging your natural production of these hormones. Take for a few days when you are feeling especially depleted then have a break for a week or two.  You should only take if you know your blood pressure is low & next time you  get blood tested, get them to include aldosterone in the CBC.

http://www.vrp.com/ProductsSearch.aspx?k=CortiTrophin

If you have difficulty accessing B12 shots, a study has shown that oral B12 is as effective, however you need to take much more than the RDA.   Start at 5mgs per day & increase as needed.  Sublingual, (dissolve under the tongue) versions will be more bioavailable as they avoid breakdown by the digestion system.  Those of  us with post-tram digestive issues will have some degree of malabsorption syndrome which means that even though we are getting adequate B12 via diet, (unless you are practising vegan), we may not be absorbing enough.

Some doctors are reluctant to administer shots, however you could refer them to this study which shows that even non-deficient individuals can benefit somewhat, & there is no toxicity so worth a shot, (bad pun intended).

Refer: Ellis FR, Nasser S. A pilot study of vitamin B12 in the treatment of tiredness. Br J Nutr 1973;30:277-283.

If you have access to a friendly nurse, (who are way more skilled at shots than doctors), b12 for injection is available OTC in Canadian pharmacies.

Fred, I totally feel for you.  Your comments brought back all the pressures of legal private practice.  I used to wake in the middle of the night remembering all the stuff on my to do list.  For brain fog, you might try acetyl-l-carnitine (ALCAR), which is an amino acid established to have beneficial effects on mood; memory & cognition.  It's also used to improve brain function following neurological shock, (I think tram withdrawal qualifies).

Piracetam, a cyclic derivative of GABA, has also been found to improve cognitive functioning.   Neither ALCAR nor piracetam have any toxicity issues but don't take ALCAR close to bed-time as some find it too stimulating. I take mine in the a.m.

Emily, so glad that you are happy to have your thread used for our personal therapy.  

On a personal note, the rebroadcast of Obama's inauguration concert was on Australian tv last night.  I know there are people who are unhappy about the amount spent on the President's inauguration, but down here, I was so moved by the expressions of hope & unity, (& they even quoted Ronald Regan, so how balanced is that).

Best to all,
M


744864 tn?1232784827
by slowbutsteady, Jan 25, 2009
Thanks for the kind words Emily and Fred!  Day 22 has been okay, the same cold symptoms and no sleep.  I can deal with this though because I keep telling myself it's only going to get better!  
C

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 25, 2009
Hi ,  Just just saw this post and it has nothing to do with tramadol, but it is a really amazing video. Just wanted to share it with you guys if you havent already seen it.  very touching, you might need a tissue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9MYoQnfVQU



Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 25, 2009
madtram,  
    i really appreciate your extensive post.  are you paid staff of medhelp?   i realize that that is what i am thinking so i decided i should just ask.  you are so generous with your answers and are so knowledgeable.   thank you for the update on b-12.  i took it by the handful during the first month and then quit.  i will keep it up.  i see that to get to 5 mg,  i will have to take quite a few of my sublinguals.  
    i am quite curious now what you are doing to support your body.   what are you still experiencing?
    

fred,  
    i am very sorry you are experiencing problems.  i am glad you told us though .  i have that feeling as well that things are slipping,  i am slipping behind.  i just get so spaced out in the afternoons that i can't do any work.  

suzi,  thank you for note.  i wrote you back but i didn't see it show up on your site ,  so now i wonder if i was so spaced out that i forget to hit 'send'.  i couldn't make it to the end of the video,  i started crying in about the first 10 seconds.

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 25, 2009
emergee,
Thanks for your extensive posts as well. I was beginning to think you are working for medhelp!  You know a lot, and take the time to post it here. I usually have to read them twice (thanks to tram), but get tons of helpful information.

I know, I cried thru the whole video. It really put things into perspective for me. We all need that now and again.


599071 tn?1300072302
by madtram, Jan 25, 2009
Emergee, the video was so inspirational & yes I needed tissues.  I have no association with medhelp, other than being very happy that this forum is here.  I am a mid-life career change med student who CTd off you know what, just after I started school & got so messed up by it, I decided to turn myself into a walking talking biology experiment.  I read everything I can to try to unravel the biological & neurological minefields this drug creates.

As Emily discovered, there are no studies on the medium to long term use of tramadol but it clearly has enough opioid attributes for the opiate research to be helpful.  Unfortunately, for problems like insomnia, brain science is still in its infancy in understanding how many areas of the brain are involved in sleep & how they work.  Homoeostasis, (or balance) is a major principle of all cell functioning, too much of one thing can throw everything else out.

Thankfully, the brain is plastic in that provided that you change the cellular environment, (remove tramadol) & keep exercising those neurons, you will develop new brain circuits to replace the wonky tramadol created ones.  Every time you strive to push on through that painful brain fog, new cell growth is happening just like doing one more push-up strengthens your arm muscles.

Don't know if anyone has read "My Stroke of Insight" by the neuroscientist who had a stroke, but she recovered full function from having forgotten how to walk; talk or do kindergarten level math, by doing brain exercises.  Also very inspiring.

I continue my self-experiment as my body slowly recovers.  The biggest breakthrough for me happened literally overnight when my sleep returned to normal & the chronic fatigue symptoms improved 90%.  I still have bad patches but a lot more close to normal days as well.  I feel so much for those of you who are dealing with CFS & fibro, the unknown duration of the CFS exhausted me mentally & physically to the point of complete hopelessness, some of the time.

Supplements that have worked most for me are the D-isomer form of phenylalalanine, (only available from a few US sources), for pain.  One of my ongoing struggles is sitting in front of the computer for long enough to get my study done, as I still have major pain in my neck.  I am starting accupuncture for this next week.  I also read a study that showed positive results for accupuncture & insomnia, if anyone is interested.

For stress & neurotransmitter support, I take Rhodiola; St John's Wort; 5htp; b group vitamins; magnesium; fish oil & withania somnifera, (another adaptogen like Rhodiola).  When I had severe anxiety, immediately post-withdrawal, I took huge doses of Inositol.  I haven't really had any anxiety since.

For brain support, I take ALCAR regularly & piracetam, occasionally.

On the bad days, when my blood pressure wipes out & the palpitations come back, I take the CortiTrophin supplement I mentioned above.

I work-out for an hour most days, alternating running in the park with weights at the gym.  I fully intend to start yoga classes once I get through this semester's exams.  I have a pretty healthy diet, low GI carbs; for protein, yoghurt; turkey breast; fish; high protein grains like quinoa & red meat only once or twice a week with monounsaturated fats like avocaodes; olive oil & nuts plus, of course plenty of green & red vegetables.

I am still struggling with keeping up with my school work, (probably too much time on the forum), so I don't seem to make time to meditate which I believe is important for me in the brain rewiring process.  Now that I am feeling a lot better, I need to be patient.

Happy New Year to any fellow year of the Oxers.

Best wishes to all,
M

Best wishes





710395 tn?1249143251
by kevzx81, Jan 25, 2009
Hi Everyone-3am and another sleepless night. I'm getting restless legs and although its VERY mild ( no actual leg movement, I can just feel the nerves...jangling?) it does wake me up. It also seems to activate my back pain which is really pi**ing me off.

On a positive note the mood swings have lessened, maybe because I've identified which feelings are really mine!
((THANKS)) to my friends here, esp Emergee for helping me to sort things out somewhat on that score.
I think unidentified feelings set off my anxiety because I remember being so controlled by unidentified feelings in the early years of battling depression. Makes me even more grateful that this site exists, I dread to think of myself coping alone with this, I think I could have got blown way off course...off the edge of the map probably!!




Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Jan 26, 2009
emeregee,  thank you for your kind words re: my post the night before last.  I must get to work, but I will talk to "y'all" another time.  Regards, Fred

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 26, 2009
Fred,
I hope all is well with you, or getting better at least. Let us know how you are.

Madtram- Thanks for all the info. It makes me feel better to know that I can improve my brain function. I was beginning to think I would never improve. I actually had read that once the brain cells are destroyed by tramadol, there is no "fixing" them. Your post makes me feel so much more positive.

Kev- I feel for you. I had many sleepless nights. RLS can be awful. It is underestimated for sure. Are you taking hylands?emergee swears by that. I am glad your mood swings have lessened. I ,unfortunately, still have that issue.


I miss all of you. It seems kinda lonely on here lately.

BIG HUGS TO YOU ALL
suzi



667826 tn?1233726740
by Organica, Jan 26, 2009
Hi all...
So many posts to read that I haven't really done them justice. I have just been away for 10 days and can thoroughly recommend 'sun and sea' therapy (Madtram - Sunshine Coast - just gorgeous.. I also really hope your CFS is settling).
Someone talks about ice-craving.. I would make smoothies with oodles of ice that I crunched on - It really felt good!
Day 20 Tram-free for me.
Peace, strength,
Sue

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 26, 2009
Welcome back Sue! I hope you had a wonderful time.
Congrats on day 20!
love,suzi

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 26, 2009
Emily-
Since its been kinda empty around here, I have been reading your journals again.
One thing that really got to me was, you were talking about laughing. You said you never realized how much your laugh had vanished.
Until it came back.
This just got to me. I have noticed when I laugh, my kids really love it. They laugh, just because I am laughing.
I dont get the question so much anymore-
"mommy, are you in a good mood today?"  or
"mommy, do you think you'll be happy when we come home from school today?"
It breaks my heart to think of all the times I put them thru h***, just because I was taking tramadol.
I still have mood swings, BUT the difference is I can mostly control it now, and know it is simply a change of mood.
I dont get so out of control, like when on tram.
With tramadol, it was either really really good, or really really bad.           No in-between.

I LOVE LAUGHING AGAIN!!  A real laugh. The kind where your eyes water, and you just cant stop. My 8 year old son does this dance. We call it the BoBo dance. (thats his nick name,BoBo). When he does this dance , I can laugh and laugh.
It makes me smile just thinking about it!

Hope you're all doing well, at whatever point you are at in this war against tramadol.
I, for one, am going to sleep with a smile on my face tonight.

love,suzi

Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 27, 2009
michelle,  
   there is so much in your letter i want to address.  i should not have waited til 10;30  to do it as my neurons get kind of frayed by this hour.    i am so impressed you are in med school,  i hate to say it but i dropped out of premed when i realized i had 10 or 12 more years of work ahead of me. too lazy.    but i have regretted it at times.  
     i must have seen the utube of neuro who had a stroke.  it was amazing , moving, and really funny.   she seemed like a fabulous person.  what  a good idea to read the book and get inspired.  i think that is what was so scary about the dopamine problem.   i mean,  my BRAIN.  you are not you without your brain chemicals.  it was wild to realize how vulnerable i was to my neurotransmitters being haywire.  went they went off,  it was baaaad.  the attention deficit disorder , restless leg crawling sensation,  and i think it is also responsible for this insane irritability which isn't gone.
    so are you saying you had cfs and it is gone?  did you have it before tram,  or did tram give it to you?  
    i have been checking out adrenal exhaustion and one thing i llearned about is very very soothing.   that is , drinking lemonade with sea salt.( no sugar)   strange that my body just loves it.  it seems a doctor would say that is very wrong to eat salt like that. there is some theory about salt and the adrenals.  all i know is it feels good.
    when i first ct-ed i just took handfuls of every thing anyone suggested.   i probably read your suggestion of huge doses of inositol  because i did that one too.  unfortunately i don't know which really worked for me.  i did not have the anxiety thing though so maybe something worked.  i took gaba,  taurine, theanine, tyrosine, sam-e, and more. glutamine.    
      i am also looking into candida.  apparentlyl opiates screw up your gut and candida can proliferate in the resulting imbalance.  i have started the diet and it's a huge hassle.  but one thing my system is digging a lot is the load of fat you are supposed to eat.   coconut oil, olive , and meat.  and it's great.  it's extremely grounding  and calming.  yep, pretty different.   but , hey , think of the paleolithic diet.  meat,  bones,  no bread or pasta at all!
      i think gaba helped me and then it stopped helping.   i think d3 has helped TONS.    i wonder if you or anyone has tried dlpa.   and i want to try piracetam.  wow wow wow,  i just checked it out on erowid the drug site.  it sounds GREAT.  i hope i can get it on line.  i will also try the cortitrophin.
       do you have journals of your recovery experiments?   i so relate to what you said about using yourself as an experiment.  i also relate to the hopelessness of cfs.  i am glad to hear you are recovered.  thank you for telling us more.  please keep posting.   it was very valuable.  

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 27, 2009
Michelle and Emergee
Wow! I love reading your posts. So much information. Its nice to work my brain to try and understand it all. Very very valuable right now.
I am going to get lemonade (do you use fresh lemons? or powder mix?) and sea salt for sure.
I still am hesitant to try other remedies as I take zoloft, and have been warned not to take certain things.
Michelle-you had mentioned to me to supplement with 5htp. I already have sam-e. Could I try that for now, or is it a totally different thing? I really do want to go off zoloft. I also take prolosec for acid reflux, and have been reading LOTS of bad things about that now. I was also told to try apple cider vinegar, but I am scared of horrible heartburn. (They said it will cure it.) Any thoughts on that??

Gotta go, my kids have a snow day......and are playing with easybake oven.
Bye for now!

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Jan 27, 2009
Hello Everyone,  I don't have a great deal of time to post this morning, but I do want to say that Michelle (madtram), you have given me a great deal of hope of late.  Your comments in your message to me about needing to continue to keep plugging away at work - to rebuild the lost brain connections affectiong my focus/productivity - one connection at a time, were important for me to hear.

I think I pretty well had the mindset that once the early withdrawal was over, I was home free.  I am beginning to accept the fact that there has been damage done by my years of tramadol taking that  is going to take a while to repair.  

And how could I have thought it might be different?  I have no flipping idea what  "receptors" are, but yet we know that this tramadol works by ******* them up.  How silly of me to expect that after years of messing with the old "receptors" (whatever those are?) I would be able to stop this aweful drug and IMMEDIATELY be whole.  

So I will just keep doing what's in front of me and know that things will get better one tiny step at a time.  I continue to be emmensely grateful for all those in this forum, for not only the hope and support you shared that enabled me to STOP taking this drug, but for giving me ongoing "tune ups" along the way since.

Emergee & Suzi, that you for your care and concern.  Everyone here continues to make a HUGE difference in my life.  And for that, I am grateful.

Peace Hope Wellness and Love to all.

Fred


Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 27, 2009
suzi,  
    ALL the alternative people say acid stomach is actually caused by TOO LITTLE ACID.    all of them .  try betaine hcl.  see if you can research.  with the lemonade ,  you can put stevia in it,  just don't do sugar at all, ever.   let me know if it strikes you the same way.   i know it's okay to take 5htp and sam-e because i did it ,  no problems.  though you might want to check on the seratonin syndrome if you are taking ssris.  

madtram,
   i thought of one more thing for you , but you may not be able to find it where you are.  for your pain.  there is a system called egoscue.  i have been doing it for a couple of years now and it works.   in fact , i can do a few minutes of the exercises and get out of pain from sitting at my computer.   i have done lots of body stuff in my day too and this stuff works.   there is a book called 'pain free'.   there is a web site that used to give a lot of free advice though i havent' checked it in ages.   there is one exercise i could describe to you that would probably help you if you did it everyday for 3 minutes.

Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 27, 2009
just saw this in passing...

Gaby starts out
looking at a December 2008 study that reported on a double blind study in
which researchers randomly gave vitamin D or placebo to 441 fat
Norwegians.  The lower their starting vitamin D levels, the more likely
they were to be depressed.  Subjects took either 20,000 IU, 40,000 IU or
a placebo once a week for a year.  About ¾ of the participants completed
the study and of those that did, the more vitamin D they took, the better they
felt. Depression as measured by a standard questionnaire decreased by 33% in
the group receiving 40,000 IU per week, by 20% in the gro
up receiving 20,000
IU per week and by 5% in the placebo group, though the decrease in the last
group was not statistically significant.    [1]

This isn’t
the first study to report vitamin D makes people happier.    A
double blind study from Australia published way back in 1998 showed that
taking as little as 400 IU per day for five days produced a measurable
improvement in mood.   [2]


Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 27, 2009
the above was a quote... i didn't write it.  but i have found it to be true for myself.  my mood is slowly getting better in the last week,  the week i was taking d3 at much higher doses.  it was pretty obvious immediately.   the medical profession has changed their minds about how much we need.

Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 27, 2009
suzi,  
   i am really getting into diet.  i am learning so much new stuff because of this tram journey.  have you heard of the gaps diet?   i have heard it mentioned many times on the forums for healing adrenals etc, because a lot of people have serious issues like ms.   i ignored until now.   you and i had such stomach  pain and problems that i think we are compromised in our digestive systems.  it cascades througout the body,  damaging your immune system, and going on from there.   this gap diet is to heal the gut.  i am amazed because it is quite close to the candida diet i was just starting, but i am finding out the reasons for it.   for example i just learned that beef broth made with bones really heals the gut and BRAIN.  also it is tricky taking ca and mg because they work against each other , chelating each other.  most of us need more mag.  i have been supplementing with it.   but the broth has the minerals in balance for the body.  
also i am so bummed i can't use the microwave.  i guess it kills food.  i treated food like putting gas in the tank.  plug it in and it works!.  i guess that's not the right attitude.

that is so sweet about the bobo dance.  you are lucky.

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jan 27, 2009
Ahhh yes Suzi .... I remember so well when my laugh returned. :D

to bobo dancers everywhere! :D

I also remember when I stopped feeling surreal. As if I were no longer in my body. As if a stranger had taken over. As if I was hiding somewhere. I remember.

Today I talked to a man who is on Tramadol. He's being loaded up on it. Something is wrong with his elbow. The Doctors wanna operate on him.  Awhile back they took him off whatever opiate he was on and gave him Tramadol ...

His Doctor told him that as long as he takes less tan 10 a day he'll never get addicted. That it would be easy to "just taper."

:D ... sure it will ....

The girl who works with me, she told me after he left that he was on cocoaine. She said, "Probably just a couple of lines in the morning .." she said. She said, "Did you see how he was eating that candy? All rapidly and crazy, like he was starving? And his eyes looked like pins .. so tiny ..."

All I know is he told me about the Doctor and the tramadol and asked me if he shuld go to a detox center ... for Tramadol ...

*sigh*

Man. This is a Bad Bad Drug.

Life without Tramadol; SO MUCH BETTER!

Love and Healing,
Emily

Thank you all for being here ... you all help me so much!

Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 27, 2009
i had a bad elbow.   i thought it was arthritus from being on a computer.  thank god i didn't go to a doctor.   of course,  it's fine now post tram.  it was probably the first thing to get better.  
painful brain fog is nearly all gone.   just a little foggy and attention deficit disordery.  

my main issue now is irritation.  i can tell its my nerves.  like they're shot.   probably are shot.   jesus i don't think i could be around children.  

710395 tn?1249143251
by kevzx81, Jan 28, 2009
Emergee- On the subject of mood/nerves/depression.... I set up an indoor garden a few days ago which includes a
250watt envirolight. The effect on my mood and energy is very noticable and if I feel sluggish or moody I spend some time with the plants. I think the brightness and warmth of the light tricks the mind (via the body) that its summer time.
Ive brought some strawberries, bok choy and spinach home from the allotment and they believe its summer too, theyve already started to grow rapidly.
OK, so its not flattering to discover Im as dumb as a vegetable, but what the hey..it works!!

Strawberries out of season anyone?.....


Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Jan 28, 2009
Hello Everyone,  I had a good day today - YAY.  Worked 12 hours with super powered energy to plow through tons and hopefully reconnecting those brain neurons one cell at a time.  

Possibly one of you medically intellectual types out there can refresh my memory and explain what exactly that DAMN TRAM does to become "effective" HA.  I mean I truly want to know what the damn tram does and what it means when we say it interupts the receptors of the brain and other parts of our bodies.  

Two months ago, it was simply enough to know that the drug was BAD BAD BAD and that I needed to get off the stuff. As I am moving forward, wouldn't it be nice (or maybe not?)  to better understand how/why that little white RAT pill worked and how/what physical damage it has caused?  

As I have said before, I tend not to want to overstate the length of this recovery thing, but again, the # 1 question we continuously ask is how long will elements of fog, depression, etc. last?    A some point I think for myself, I need to get to a point of saying, "this is as good as it gets".  At some point, things I may complain about, may just be elements of my prior self.  What do the rest of you think?

I am certain that judging my my recent posts, you all think OLD Fred has gone fruity on you guys.  Maybe I have!!!

Seriously, it's like I have gone through a fire.  That FIRE was the years on the TRAM-A-GO-ROUND.  
By the grace of a higher power and every one here, that fire is now extinguished for me.   But although we have gotten the fire out, and I just want to better understand: (1)  the CAUSE of the fire, (2) the inner workings of how this thing combusted, (3) the structural damage it caused , (4) how long the rebuilding will go on, and (5) how will we know when the structure is wholey rebuilt?   Call me crazy, but now I really want to know what the hell happened, what happened inside me when I stopped feeding the BEAST TRAM, and what those lasting "hooks" are that we affectionally speak of.  

Tonight I am happy and grateful. I have been sleeping well lately as well.  Just questions I suppose.

******************
Hello Emily, I don't think I have wished you well for some time.  "wellness to you".  Thanks for hanging out with this crazy bunch.  :)

I LAUGHED hard at your story about the poor man at work today, "as long as he takes less tan 10 a day he'll never get addicted. That it would be easy to "just taper".  Oh sure.  So much bad information out there about this horrible dangerous destructive drug.  Life is hard, but it's so much easier without being totally loaded.  And let's face it, this drug does LOAD a person.  It may seem sweet and gentle at the begginning, but we all know too well how it turns and sweetness becomes UGLY UGLY UGLY.

Today I an grateful taht I no longer have:

DEPENDANCE on a drug, the depths of which are not yet known.

COUNTING PILLS...thank God I have been delivered from that regular ritual.  I cannot tell you how many times I have sought the bottem of the drawer hoping beyond hope that an errant precious pill had earlier become deposited (outside my count) under all that other shaving junk.  Sadly (and predictably), I never found one lousy sucker when I needed it.  BOO HOO!  

BEGGING DOCS FOR EARLY EXCEPTIONS TO THE RX...HOW CRAZY AND GUILT RIDDEN WAS THAT?

MONTHLY WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS - gone, yeah.

And here's a scarry fact.  Spaced out folks just like us are getting into accidents, having near misses, and just plain TUNING OUT the world around them while they float along in  the tramadol induced fog we all once called life.  We all probably know people still on this drug.  And like you said once before Emily, there is not talking sense to the senseless when it comes to addiction.  

And look at us.  We are fairly recent "converts" in the grand scheme of things.  A year sobriety here is grand.  But consider the masses who are continuing to float through their own reality with (sadly) no idea the havoc they are causing for themselves, their employers, their families, their pocketbooks, their brain cells.   EVERY relationship VOID of passion, care, natural concern for others, LOVE...it's all floating in the tramafog which they deny exists.  

Any estimates of the number of trams consumed every day?  Any estimates on the number of people addicted to this drug right now?  Let's pray that one of us will be here in their hour of need.  Everyone will quit this drug one day.  

And sadly, WE KNOW that if one takes 10 pills a day, tapering or any other means of getting off tramadol will not be easy for the average misinformed patient/consumer.  And incidentally, it is FUNNY that the doctor referenced 10 pills/day since that is 2 more than what the medical community recognizes as the "healthy daily consumption amount".  

I know that no amount of this horrible drug is a good thing for any person honest with themselves.    I guess that is the key - honesty.  

Goodnight everyone.  Hugs and Kisses from Fred!!!

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by kevzx81, Jan 28, 2009
Fred- re; as good as it gets. I think that could be a self-limiting idea. I dont think we ever return to how/who we were if we have accepted change into our lives,especially big change as this implies a shifed viewpoint. More likely that we will enjoy our hard won return to health with new eyes!
We all want back the life that Tram stole from us,to get back to 'how things were'. But why not look forward to a time when things could be better than theyve EVER been before. Better for the knowledge,strength,courage etc we have all gained in since fighting this drug. Better for the happiness we will now be less likely to take for granted!
Yesterday is gone ,and with it,who we were. Yet who we are today is always part discovery and I am sure that over time you will soon come to enjoy the new Fred more than you did the old. This version is stronger,tougher and combat trained.
This version knows so much more than the old!

As usual someone else has said it so much better already: " who can appreciate the summer who has not lived at least one winter?" Well, you're coming to the end of a LONG winter of the body,spirit and mind. Summer may take a little while longer to fully kick in but I think it may surprise you!

Im glad to hear you had a good day and that things are better at work..ENJOY!!!!



689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 28, 2009
Yaaaaaaaay Fred!!! I am so glad to hear you gad a great day! I was worried about you.
I also agree with Kev about not limiting our expectations. I want to be better than before. To be honest, I really dont remember "life" before tram. Isnt that weird? I really dont remember how I felt everyday without taking pills.
I remember what life was like while TAKING tram, but not before. That is bizzare to me. So, when I get up now to face the day, I feel like I am starting all over.
Is this normal? Does anyone else feel this way? Or am I crazy?

I remember when I first went off the dam-tram, (I like that fred), my husband told me he couldnt wait to get his "wife" back.
Then, he broke down, because he admitted he was scared that maybe my behavior wasnt from the drug, but just how I had become. (severe mood swings,lack of affection,emotionless,etc.) Well, of course, we all expect to be normal again,right away, when we stop taking the drug. When this didnt happen, it was frustrating. Now, I am finding myself not remembering how I was pre-tram. All I know is how I feel now. With the risk of sounding cheesey, It is almost like a re-birth.
Kev, you put it so much better than me. I think I was trying to say the same thing as you.You have a better way with words.


***************************
My sister fell and fractured her foot 2 days ago. Guess what her dr. gave her? Anyone? Yep, tramadol. 40 of them.
She is aware of my situation, and so far has not filled it.
And then, I got my tooth pulled yesterday, and my dentist gave me a script for darvacet. Yes, I did fill it and am taking it. But, I only have 12, and am being very careful.
Dont know exactly why I had to tell you all that, but I did feel I had to. I feel I would be dishonest or something if I didnt tell you I had darvacet.

Hope you all have a great day.

Love, suzi



710395 tn?1249143251
by kevzx81, Jan 28, 2009
Suzi-yes it does sound cheesy, but yes its also true; Life contains many opportunities for rebirth and Tram w/d definitely offers us all that. We perceive ourselves as continuous because we dont notice the tiny day to day changes in ourselves but big challenges force big changes. And we all know that Tram w/d is a BIG challenge.
The size of the opportunity is equal to the size of the challenge! So it follows that many of us will re-experience ourselves post-Tram in new and unexpected ways.

A lot has been revealed to me about myself while going through this;e.g. I like to be IN CONTROL of my feelings which is an attachment to an illusion as Tram has proved by showing me how easily control can be taken away! So now Ive learned to 'work through' a bit more rather than analyze and struggle. Special thanks to Rod and Emergee for setting an example for me to follow with that one.

I'm sure we can all come up with our own examples...would make very interesting reading in fact!

Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 28, 2009
oh kevxz ,  that is so wonderful about the plants.  i love plants too.  it sounds as if you made a forest in your house.

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 28, 2009
I forgot to mention that!
I have read so much about how healing plants can be. I love strawberries!
Send me some,Kev!

Avatar universal
by grandma75, Jan 28, 2009
by grandma75


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grandma75
Member since Jan 2009  



, Jan 27, 2009 03:32PM
To everyone who has posted their pain from Tramadol withdrawal,

It snowed today, and I couldn't go to work.  It is a true blessing, because it gave me time to research and find this site.  

Two years ago, I was prescribed tramadol for leg pain.  I couldn't even walk in the grocery store without having to hold onto a cart.  I could do certain movements, but walking caused horrible pain.  The doctors attributed the pain to my back, so I started getting shots in my back, which didn't help. I didn't have a problem getting prescriptions for tramadol, because it wasn't addicting!! Yeah, right!!  A year later, a doctor that actually did his job found out that my pain was not from my back, but from my hips!  I had to have two hip replacements!!  Bdfore surgery, the  prescription included tramadol, along with other pain relievers.  I suspect this was to keep the dosage in my system to a level that helped the medication during surgery.  After the first durgery, I was given a prescription fro tramadol, and took it only once a day.  This is whan it occured to me that my mood ewas much better and that I was more sociable and seemed to get more done after taking the tramadol.  After the second surgery, I told my doctor my concern, that I really liked the tramadol, but I really felt that I was addicted to it.  She said that "yes, it will make you feel better, but that it wasn't as addicting as other pain meds.  BS.  I was also given percoset, which was easy to not take, because it made me loopy, but the tramadol had an effect on me that is so hard to describe.  I have never been an out going person, but with the tram, I was so talkative and happy and could focus.  Wow!  What a deception.   I now find myself going to the doctor, just to get a tramadol refill, and there is no problem  He gave me 3 refills!!!!  However, I now find that one a day is no longer enough so I start taking two and find a depression when it wears off that I can not handle.  I look to my grown children and others to help with the depression, but am too embarresed to tell them that I think I am addicted to a medication that is not addicting??!!  I am now on day one.  No tramadol.  I need to start being me again and start being able to focus my thoughts with out the support of a pi;;.  I made an appointment with a doctor for depression, and he gave me Wellbutrin.  I AM NOT DEPRESSED, I AM ADDICTED, YOU ARE NOT HEARING ME!

Anyway, this is day one and all I want is to feel like I can think on my own, without the help of a narcotic, and I want to smile at other people from myself, not from a pill.  

Thank you for this site.  I am going to beat this addiction and maybe be able to focus enough to be the one in my family that people come to instead of the one needing help.

Starting again!




689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 28, 2009
Welcome grandma75!       You have come to the right place.
How many were you taking a day, until now? We are here to offer support whenever you need. There are lots of us here fighting the war against tramadol. We are all at diffferent stages as well. Some may be tapering, some in active withdrawl, and others are in recovery.
If you can ,read previous posts for some great ideas to help with w/d symptoms.
Be very gentle with yourself right now.

One day at a time........

Bless you, suzi

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jan 28, 2009
Hi Tramadol Warriors,

Welcome! (((Grandma75))) First day? ((((more hugs))) You said a few things that touched a nerve or two ...

One was,"I am now on day one.  No Tramadol.  I need to start being me again and start being able to focus my thoughts with out the support of a pi;;.  I made an appointment with a doctor for depression, and he gave me Wellbutrin.  I AM NOT DEPRESSED, I AM ADDICTED, YOU ARE NOT HEARING ME!"

Yeah. They tend to layer one medication over another. In my case, the Tramadol turned on me fairly quickly and gave me panic attacks. So enter several drugs to manage it and i ended up on Klonopin. A Benzo. To handle side effects from Tramadol. SO now I have to withdraw from a Benzo. Even though the Tramadol is gone; the Klonopin now needs tapering .. more on that in a minute.

You also said,"Anyway, this is day one and all I want is to feel like I can think on my own, without the help of a narcotic, and I want to smile at other people from myself, not from a pill."

Yes yes. AN admirable goal. Plus the pain will  decrease once you finish withdrawing from Tramadol. So many of you have had that experience. First it gets worse, then so much better.

Kev - Ahhh I love Gardening. :D... so cool.  I have a large garden. Right now I want to put in a few musk roses. They are from China, and they grow up into trees. They grow 30-40 feet tall and bloom once a year. The one I am going to plant ...up about 6 of our trees is called Paul Himalayan Musk. That way they will all bloom at the same time. I have many roses. All picked for fragrance and spring thru Fall it smells like a perfumery. More Flower than veggies here ... but I plant heirloom tomatoes every year. And Basil and herbs ... Oh and Artichoke plants which are amazing! I married DH in our Garden .. :D ... Happy times.

As Good As It Get? Naw, Fred, it gets better. WAY better. Way way way better.

Even now, I am tapering Klonopin. Today it kicked my butt and took my name. I have been tapering and have been down on 1 mg at night only for awhile. I'd say ... 10 days?  (and yes, I probably went too fast on my taper) ....

Anyhow today I got hit with massive anxiety, massive discomfort. Neurological Migraine Symptoms. I took the klonopin a bit early and slowly the symptoms  vanished along with a dose of Excedrin Migraine. I had ice packs, a TENS unit .. Huge messy withdrawal from a Benzo symptoms. I feel badly feel for DH because poor guy has seen me go thru more withdrawal than ... than anyone should have to.

He asks me, "What drug is it now? Aren't you off that?"

Benzo have to be tapered. But OMG. There' this certain high point of symptoms during all the withdrawals I have gone thru. It happened a whole bunch of time with Tramadol, and only once with each opiate. It's like the spike of symptoms gets so insane that it is so hard just NOT to take the drug in a larger amount than you want to ...

But I did it. Despite the fact that I thought, "Oh H-E double toothpicks, is this a migraine? A flare up? A klonopin taper reaction? Am I dying ... again?" Visual effects. Strange and unnerving. I'm amazed I didn't crack and take more klonopin. It is the sole survivor of the whole many drugs ordeal.

If they'd never put me on Tramadol, I wouldn't be on Klonopin. And yeah, that makes me angry. Honestly the withdrawal from everything ... it's going to take time to recover.

I never think that, "this is as good as it is going to get."

Suzi I actually do think it is like a rebirth. Very much so. Darvoset is pretty straightforward stuff in my experience.No one is putting any secret chemicals in there to destroy your brains. It's ok to take things to help you, you know? I did ... I will if anything happens in the future. After the car accident I took codeine and withdrawal were no picnic, but in no way was it worse than Tramadol for me. 12 pills is ok :D (((Suzi))) I hope you is calls her Doc and asks for something else ... I'm planning on being allergic to Tramadol in the future. Which I am ... technically. I lost any therapeutic benefits for me really fast. When people talk abut the benefits of Tramadol it is like a fizzy distant thing I cannot even remember. I think also that my method of severe aversion mind training has something to do with that.

Fred, I know I know .. The Doctor told him 10 a day ... it's .. insane. "Jut taper off it. I felt o badly for him. All I could do was tell him very calmly what I knew about Tramadol and hope he heard me. Sad. Yes. Thousands being hooked ... it's a real nightmare.

Anyhow I have been thru a Klonopin taper before and it was much worse than this one, because I was still on every drug ... including Tramadol. This time, with the exception of today, it hasn't been as terrifying. I also kind of know what to expect.

A few months from now; I won't be on any pills at all and Even Doctor Groovy will be a distant memory ...

Love and Healing,
Emily





599071 tn?1300072302
by madtram, Jan 28, 2009
Welcome to grandma 75 from me too.  I think you are very self aware to have identified the problems with tramadol so early on.  It took me 5 years to have no doubt what was going on.

Thanks to Kev, for your sentiments about before & after, I needed that reminder.  I have had had a hairy few days, physically bad palpitations & fatigue; not enough sleep due to work commitments & vomiting cats, (my cat had a small surgical procedure at the vets & around 2.30am, we were woken up by him vomiting on my hair, it's long so it was far enough from my face to be only very gross not totally).   Somehow I think the physical symptoms & not enough sleep are related.

I am also experiencing unwanted feelings, particularly guilt & shame about all the things I neglected as a tramabot.
I am in trouble with the tax office over late tax returns.  While I was working & on the tram, I used to spend 70 hours plus at work, (which was expected & well rewarded financially), but the tram fog meant that I had no motivation left to take care of my personal financial affairs.  I have an accountant who is helping me sort things out, to  hopefully reduce the financial penalties but I am feeling very humiliated & shameful which raises Fred's point.  I guess I wasn't perfect before tramadol & my overachieving tendencies no doubt made me that much more receptive to tramadol's early side effects of numbed feelings & what appeared to be extra energy.

More emotional disclosures.  I'm also feeling very helpless.  My sister, who lives in NewZealand, near my parents, has been a relentless alcoholic for most of her life, (she's 46).  Periodically, her drinking leads to severe physical injury, although somehow she seems to have 9 lives.  I think her addiction is complicated by high levels of anxiety which cold be helped by say Klonopin but they don't seem to prescribe that for anxiety in NZ & just say well she's an alcoholic, she just needs to quit.  She also had a PHD in psychology so knows all the jargon to confuse herself & everyone else.  She just cracked her head open in a fall, then had another bad fall 2 days later when she had a physical altercation with another addict "friend" at 2am.  If only my accountant could sort this out as well.  My parents are going through hell & although I try to contribute with suggestions for meds, I feel like I could be doing more if I wasn't hampered by own recovery.  At the same time, I do know the realities of addiction, the person has to want to be over it & she wants to drink.

Sorry to dump this on you, stuff that is out of my control is truly the hardest for me.  I need the Serenity prayer on continuous loop.

Sue, so glad you had some R&R on the Sunshine Coast, I hope the boost has given you a head start for the year.

Emergee, thanks for the info on egoscue.  It looks as though they may have tried to start in Australia a few years ago but I couldn't see any current info.  I will however buy the dvd off their site & let you know how I get on.

Mineral salt is recommended for people who have low blood pressure, common to adrenal fatigue & CFS as it increases the tension in blood vessels which is helpful. As long as your BP is not on the high side, it's a perfectly sound therapy.  Re the CFS, I did have a severe virus not long before the symptoms started & also had a long term dose of mono as a child, both of which are predisposing factors for CFS.  All doctors I have seen have diagnosed post-viral CFS, even though I have raised the prospect of tramadol, they have all been doubtful that any sort of withdrawal could continue for this long.  On the other hand, I had never had anything like these symptoms before, so the timing seems awfully coincidental to me.

I started off taking DLPA which is a combination of the D form & the L form of phenyalalanine & I did find it helpful.  Chemically the D & L forms are isomers, or kind of molecular mirror images of each other but they have different effects.  The L form is a precursor for tyrosine which in turn produces dopamine & noradrenalin, whereas the D form contributes to endorphin production.  Since the CFS, my problem has been too much noradrenalin, I tend to feel too speedy so don't think I need more tyrosine.  When I discovered a source for the D form in isolation, I started taking that instead & I think it's the best for me.

How scientific is that Dr's claim that 10 tramadols is the magic cut off point for a trouble free life.  Nice round number, why wouldn't you believe him.

Thanks again for being there everyone, I feel better just for sharing this stuff.
M

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Jan 28, 2009
Kev, What wise kind words, "I think that could be a self-limiting idea. I dont think we ever return to how/who we were if we have accepted change into our lives,especially big change as this implies a shifed viewpoint. More likely that we will enjoy our hard won return to health with new eyes! "   You have such a wonderful way with words, well thought before spoken.  Thank you.

Suzi,  No need to worry but thanks.  Some days are just crazier at work than others and to be honest, I never EVER even checked my personal email accounts during he week before the old tram line.  My friends and family just got used to old Fred logging on Friday night and staying up 1/2 the night replying to emails that built up during the week.  When one is on their computer at work 10-12 hours/day, logging back on after dinner isn't always a relaxing variation to the day...until there was you.  So I am trying to be better about this weekday thing.  

Michelle, so glad you shared about your helpless feeling with regard to your sister's alcoholism.  I have an adult son who I worry a great deal about that way.  Knowing that there isn't anything you can say or do to help another person doesn't make it easy.  But I know from my personal experiences that there isn't a soul alive who could have convinced me to change my ways, until I was ready to change.  And I am sure I caused numberous folks their own share of worry about me.  It is hard when we love someone and we can do nothing but stand by as they sink sink sink.   Hang in there.  

Grandma 75, Welcome.  I too began tramadol after hip replacement surgery, though I probably was not as self controlled as you appaently were.   I took 8/day for six years before coming to the realization that this drug was killing me not making me well.  .  No mater what your doctor told you, this is not the kind gentle little sister to "real opiates".  

Bah Ha Ha

Click on Emily's picture and go read all of her journal entries.      Post often.  And if you are determined to STOP, don't take any trams between posting.  Regardless of your successes or failures, we understand what it is like to go off this drug and support what you  are doing right now..  Stay close and let us know how you are doing.  

Fred



749561 tn?1272826714
by oxfinx, Jan 29, 2009
wow, so there is an answer to why i dont know why i have a short fuse. never posted before in 14 years online anywhere so point to ask/say/etc.. allmost two years ago finally convinced to take pills for the pain, hated taking even asprin before then. last six months worked up to 400mg tramadol, 15mg flexeril, 10mg zanaflex, 2400mg ibuprofen, and of course vitamins. figured i needed to talk to someone who knows more so found a pain specialist, he now 'adds' 5mg methadon,
accuses me of being an addict because i smoke pot. i have to stop for him cause he'll test and press charges if im dirty
but thats cool, it's his job to do that. i take vicoprofen 7.5/200 3 times a day for about 3-4 days every 3-4 weeks and he's mad at me for that. neways, im convinced the answer to so many negative questions after reading so many posts here is tramadol. i guess i am an addict , but just thought that was what kind of a person i had turned into. thanx so much for opening ones eyes. ha, and since i started the methadon 4 days ago i havent been sleepy or slept. good luck to all of you, mabey ill post again sometime. :-)

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 29, 2009
Hi oxfinx,
I am sorry, I dont know what most of your meds are. (except ibuprefen,ofcourse).
PLEASE keep posting. We have some very intelligent people on here (just not me, lol).
We have found that most of the time, the pain will actually get better when you go off the tram, and probably others as well.

PLEASE, like I said, keep posting. Others will be along shortly to offer suggestions for all the meds.We have a medical student who knows a lot about how different meds work.  (calling madtram!!)
I am 70 days off tramamdol! So, it can be done!!!!

Hug to you, suzi

Avatar universal
by ultraumatized, Jan 29, 2009
haven't had much time to post lately...this is turning out to be the busiest semester for me yet.  i am so thankful i'm not in some tramadol daze this time tho, i don't think i would be able to make it if that were the case.  i am definitely not back to normal yet, whatever normal may be, but every day gets a little easier it seems...i'm coming close to a month clean & am excited to hit that milestone.  

over the past several weeks i've learned that there are many people i know-family, friends, acquaintances who are either currently being prescribed tramadol or have taken it in the past several months.  i cannot believe the amounts of this drug that are being given to unsuspecting victims...it's a very scary thought!  i am trying my best to dissuade anyone i know taking the meds to stop!  i'm trying not to be preachy about it, but i truly don't want anyone to believe the lie about this terribly unsafe drug!

i've also been able to identify some of my own problems with the process i have taken in the past that lead to my abuse...there have been instances that pain killers have been legitimately prescribed to me (a couple of surgeries, endometriosis, back pain, etc...) but more often i let a little symptoms or minor aches lead to my own general complaints...then it escalates into an actual illness or major type of pain that i could turn into a good excuse for a doctors visit...& of course, at the first mention of something being amiss my doctors always prescribed more tramadol...i think my habit of excuses has severely contributed to my problem & hope that i'll be more aware of what i'm doing now that i'm hitting a point in my recovery that i've never reached before.  

i have also had more success at seeing my old tramadol-self in a more realistic light...i can relate to the feeling of being more social, talkative, interesting, etc...while taking the meds, but in truth i was just a manic mess.  just before quitting, while still taking 15 pills a day, i visited my family for the holidays...the first day or two i was there everything seemed okay...then a little disagreement with my younger brother put me in a rage...i was furious with everyone, became moody & wouldn't talk, i parked myself in front of the tv for 24 hours before just picking my daughter up & leaving without so much as an excuse!  in my mind i shoved these type of episodes away in favor of the more upbeat attitude i thought i had...but in truth, those darker moods were becoming more & more prevalent.  i'm glad i'm finally getting the courage to admit to these things & hope it will continue to lead to better choices for my future...that said, i decided to slap on a nicotine patch today & quit smoking...i actually tried that when i first went off tram, but god knows that was a stupid idea & i decided i better wait until things got a little less stressful, i think i'm ready for it now tho.  

to all of you who are just joining, i wish you the best of luck...please continue to read & post! the information and support here has been a lifesaver for many already.  i honestly believe that sharing our struggles is one of the best medicines available.

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 29, 2009
Hi ultraumatized-
Congrats on being off the demon drug for almost a month!!!!!!!!!!!! That is an accomplishment.
I can so identify with you on your awareness of your tram-self. I can so vividly remember what I was like on tram. Absolutely NO PATIENCE. I thought, just like you, that I was more social, more talkative,and "funner" to be around,(i know thats not a word, but I like it) . But now I realize I was a total mess.
I have a best friend who is still taking tramamdol, and she is actually taking more than ever. I have tried ever so gently to talk to her about stopping but ............well, we all know how that can go. My whole point with this is, I can see her behavior-  very hyper at times, and I see myself behaving just like that. I feel like "how didnt I see that  about myself"??
My family and friends must have noticed.
Oh yea, that is what my husband has been complaining about for 5 years.
I think it is great that we can recognize this about ourselves, and then take the initiative to stop.
Sometimes, I am still in awe that I stopped at all. Tramadol ruled my life.
BUT now I rule it!!

OH YEA!!!! I am so proud of anyone who stops smoking!! GOOD LUCK!!
I have never smoked, but I applaud anyone who quits. (I am actually allergic, or I probably would have)
Take care-suzi


689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 29, 2009
I saw a tv show yesterday that was about people who are "addicted " to the internet-mainly forums where they talk to people on a daily basis. This can be a problem for some, apparently.
They couldnt be talking about someone like, um me..could they??? I dont have a problem. I mean, I only check up on you guys a few times a day. maybe 4 or 5.
well, maybe 6 or 25.
O-k, so I am an addict. Oh well. at least I am not popping pills anymore.

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 29, 2009
Kev-
Did I read correctly that you dont have a TV????

Avatar universal
by kes68, Jan 29, 2009
I have posted a few times on med help, and then someone pointed me in this direction.  I have read some of the posts, and think that your knowledge and insight might help me get out of a very bad spot.  While I am not sure of the level of sanity (lol) here, you are very supportive and motivating.

Over three years ago I was battling an opiate addiction  - so my Dr prescribed Tram to help with the pain (bad back, slipped disc, degenerative disc disorder blah, blah, blah) and to help me with the oxy withdrawal.  It did help - I had ct before and it was brutal.  So I thought I was all set.  The pain was manageable, and the withdrawals were manageble.

So - any guesses where I am at now??  Yep - I am up to over 800mg of tram a day, my business is at risk, my relationship is barely hanging on, and it now looks as though I may have to add legal trouble to the group.  Apparently, the RCMP (canadian police) have stopped a package of mine at the boarder.  I have 30 days to provide documentation or they with take further action - whatever that means.
Obviously what the Dr prescribes is not near enough - so I order on-line, forge prescriptions - so much for morals.
I have tried to stop before - but give me opiate withdrawal anyday.
No one knows about this - everyone just thinks I kicked the drug problem a long time ago.

Life if just one big blur - I no longer get energy, or that pick me up - one day just fades into another - I am miserable.
Really glad to find this thread, it feels good (in a crappy way) to be able to relate to what I read.




714730 tn?1249682539
by HOPEreturns, Jan 29, 2009
OMG!  Been out of pocket for a few days.  Been working overtime at hospital.  I have to go back to work tomorrow;  My plan to jump off of Tram train came to a halt.  I am on six a day;  I just KNOW that I can't take care of others at work if I am in withdrawal!  I chose to continue to talk of my plan to jump of tram wagon , because I know I would have to hold myself to it.  You see.... I hate disappointing others.  I know if I didnt go thru with my plans, that I would disappoint you all.  NOW... deep down I know I have all of your support, but that little voice keeps telling me.... you FAILED and they all are shaking their heads at you!  

I had a MRI done a few weeks ago.  I have C5-C7 pressing on nerves bilaterally;  My doc sent me to a PAIN CLINIC.... SHOCKER HUH??  LOOOOORRRRD!!  Sitting in that waiting room was so irritating to me.  I was of course judging each and every one of them as I sat in a chair in a VERY SMALL crowded waiting area.  I was sitting there just analyzing each and every one of them.  Once lady was dozing off in her scooter;  One guy was sitting down holding his cane... talking loudly, acting like the waiting room welcome commitee.  I looked at him and thought, " How I remember those days of being "high" on pain meds thinking how I just loved talking about "nothing" to everybody.  THAT WAS HIM FOR SURE!  Then there was a lady that walked in with her big huge envelope that said MRI;  she was limping across the floor in major pain.  I felt sorry for her.  I hated myself for sitting there judging these poor people.  MY first reaction was, " D amn drug seekers!!!", Then I sat there thinking, they must think that about me.  ANYWAY, I have been put on medrol (steroids)... can't wait to puff of like a blowfish now! HA!  I told him I am currently weaning off of tramadol, he said he would help me.  Since I told him, I know I will continue to do this.  Due to that little thing about not wanting to disappoint.  

I just want to continue to ya'll know that i so appreciate each and everyone of you.  YOU are the reason that I keep going forward and am striving to get of of this.... "FRED and EMILY's phrase of choice.... RAT POISON!!"  

Fred,  I do think that these trams have caused permanent damage!  Going from such a high dose to a lower dose, I feel better..... but the random withdrawals are KILLER!  I just picture each little neurotransmitter trying to wake up from a sleep.  As I picture it... It p isses me off even more! HA!  I have been in such an aggressive hate the world mood lately.   The girls at work are telling me its because, I'm on steroids.  They continously tease  me about it!  It lightens up the mood and I love to laugh!  I also enjoy sarcasm!  When I am in these type of moods, the sarcasm just flows and gets me in trouble!  

Kev, I too fancy strawberries!  The other day my 2 1/2 year old daughter climbed up on my lap and was eating a strawberry.  I asked her how she got it.  She explained in third person form that she had gotten it from kitchen. Being a "germ freak" I immediately freaked because I had just picked them up from the supermarket and hadnt washed them off yet.  I walked into kitchen and the little green stem and leaves had been thrown in the kitchen sink.  I had to laugh and think, "MY she is so self sufficient!"  At least she wasnt tearing into the bag of M&M's!

Suzi... thank you so much for checking on me..... you are a DOLL!  The medical field is definitely waiting for YOU!

To everyone else.  Have a wonderful weekend!  I will go back to work tomorrow.  

Welcome to the newcomers!!  YOU have chosen the right forum!

LOVE TO ALL!
Hope

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 29, 2009
HOPE!!!!!!
Dont ever think we are "shaking our heads at you". We have all been where you are at,or some of us will be eventually.
There is no ONE WAY to get off this drug. You will know when you are ready and what YOU have to do to be more comfortable. You are in a very demanding profession, and you know your limits.  No one else, but you.
One thing I have learned is at some point in your life, you have to stop worrying so much about what others think of you.
No one walks in your shoes, but YOU.
I, as we all do here, wish you the best of luck in YOUR war against tramadol.


Kes68-
Welcome.
Like Fred said last night, click on Emilys picture and read all of her journal entries. VERY informative and motivational.
(And BTW, it isnt MY level of sanity you are questioning, is it?    LMAO)

I feel like I have been hogging this thread, but next week I start school, so I'll give you all a break then. O-k?

love,suzi


714730 tn?1249682539
by HOPEreturns, Jan 29, 2009
SUZI,

Listening to your words helped release some of that heavy feeling that I have been having!  THANK YOU for that!  By the way.... I do not need any break nor want any break from YOU.  You contributing to a large part of my strength!  

Good luck on the start of school!  I actually loved going to school!  It was an escape for me.  Time for ME.  I enjoyed sitting in class and absorbing the info!  I eat sleep breath medical!  You might find that you will too!  In the beginning you will ask..... why do I need to know what the ulna bone is?? When you finally get toward the end of the program, you will say,.... AH!  It is all starting to come together.  I am anxious to hear about your progress!

LOVE
Hope

Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 29, 2009
"I am also experiencing unwanted feelings, particularly guilt & shame about all the things I neglected as a tramabot. "
madtram

yes. very ashamed.   i also was sloppy in my work and ended up taking on too much risk and really got punished big time.   financially.  and i know it is because i wasn't thinking clearly or well and what i was neglecting was reality.   reality was too distant so i could ignore it.

i also feel very bad about how crabby i have been,  i want to thank you ultraumatized.  i have been getting into rages.  and feeling very justified too.  the problem is,  i still feel pretty crabby.  my perspective is better so i can judge now that i am waaaay tooooo off the scale in my irritation level.   it's shocking to feel how out of balance my emotions are ,  and i didn't KNOW THAT when i was trammed.  

madtram,  i had mono also and i had cfs before tram.  that is one reason tram was attractive,  it got me moving.   i am looking into candida .  i probably already said that.  if yours persists you may want to do the spit test.   you can do it at home.   a lot of people think cfs is from candida.

710395 tn?1249143251
by kevzx81, Jan 29, 2009
Emergee- You got it so right, its how justified it felt that is so scary when we look back at a Tram outburst. Im sorry youre feeling ashamed, I like to think that by taking resposibility for our mistakes and working to correct them that we lose any positive use for shame and can therefore let it go...easy said, not so easy to do, particularly if we've hurt the ones we love. But PLEASE stop feeling it, you dont deserve it, it wont help, it lowers your energy and ultimately will contribute to further 'low energy ' behaviour. thus perpetuating itself. Shame and embarassment only serve those who lack a better motive...AND THATS NOT YOU!

Sending you strawbwrries.........

749561 tn?1272826714
by oxfinx, Jan 29, 2009
i am obsessed now. just entirely too many post to comprehend. it took a doc to accuse me of intentional abuse then contradict himself by 'adding' another pill to accidentally run across this thread of postings to realize I've been bamboozled by multiple doc's and believe tramadol to be safe, non-narcotic, non-addictive, with little or no side effects. only to be right about that if you never miss a dose, always take it, and let it be your miracle drug. also believe, when taken faithfully, the subtle changes about your character are just what they are, nothing is wrong or has changed, the rest of the world has changed, > say it > I'm just trying to live in it!! I'm pretty pissed today...actually I'm reaalllyy pissed!!
but there is something different. I think for the first time in a very long time i know what i am pissed about. the only drugs i condone are over-the-counter, prescription without abuse or neglect, and of course pot, common, tell me a bad story! not an embarrassing one. not one of stupidity. but one with horror, betcha cant. yet of course anything 'you' do that i wont, in moderation with competency. today, end of day one with new open eyes,  i have to say and ask... i sent an email to this accusatory doc i met 4 days ago with the most polite, respectful, blunt, mean spirited plea for help. i want to give him a chance yet i cannot take a drug that is bad for me, it is everything i am against to to so. i figure i need to take at least a week with notice of two off of work; have a support set up for my wife and kids to use during that time in replacement of me; stop all drugs; and wait... oh i guess an hour after i miss that tramadol dose to start the hell. wait a couple days for the water to burn. let it burn a couple days. then let it simmer for the next week to finally cool off the next 2 months. am i on the right track? right idea? i gotta say, you people are awesome! better find a crazy person doctor and just admit.. i have been beaten, for the first time, and not only did i do it to myself, i did it to my family! wow, i gotta give that pharmaceutical company props!! again.. "yall" are awesome and good luck!!  

710395 tn?1249143251
by kevzx81, Jan 29, 2009
Oxfinx- That anger you feel is going to VERY useful when you w/d...it will give you strength. Thats how most of us felt when we realized that our trusted physicians had lied,denied and generally abused our trust.
And yes you're on the right track about the time frame though the sequence and severity of symptoms differs a lot person to person. It can seem very random.

You should know also that a dramatic increase in your dose can cause Grand Mal seizures(possibly fatal) so once you stop you cant just start again safely a couple days later.

Whatever you do, good luck. You have the support of everyone here.

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Jan 30, 2009
Wow,  did I enjoy reading everyone's posts since yesterday.  

Suzi, Yes, I expect you will be posting less after school starts. You crack me up.  But I think you spoke for me in your comments to the newcomers and Hope (Hi Hope!)

I think that it is important to note that this isn't some church we have devised to snag new members to.  There are no saints here.  We are all sick puppies trying to get well moment by moment.  Some may have a few days lead on others, but there are no saints here.  

Hope, please don't think of yourself as dissappointeing anyone here.  We love you whether you keep taking the tram or not.  You have a desier to stop, which seems tol be all that is required for "membership" here.  And I recall that you were taking 20 or more per day, so if you have knocked it down to about 6/day, you are doing great.  Progress not perfection Hope.

For the record, we have had herion addicts, meth addicts and others tell us that beating tramadol is far harder than defeating those other demons.  ("Sweetdaddy" told us that as I recall)

Kes68, you said, "No one knows about this - everyone just thinks I kicked the drug problem a long time ago.

Life if just one big blur - I no longer get energy, or that pick me up - one day just fades into another - I am miserable.
Really glad to find this thread, it feels good (in a crappy way) to be able to relate to what I read. "

Yeah, it feels pretty much like each of us is the first person on the planet to have this problem, huh?   And especially when our good doctor prescribe it as the safe alternative to real pain killers, we come by our addiction honestly, huh?

NOT Fair!   Tramadol is NOT fair. Notr good.  Not gentle,

it creates pain and tells us we need more and more of the drug. Yeah, RAT poison drug.

Secrets and concern with legal problems can be good motivators.

I quit because I was sick and tired of counting pills

Sick and tired of going through partial withdrawal every time I ran low.

Sick and tired of feeling that I was dependant on something I felt I could not live without.

Sick and tired of feeling spaced out and out of touch with the whirling world around me.

ETC. ETC. ETC...

If it isn't a good time for any of the newcomers to STOP now, DAVE this site as a favorite and come back again and again.   One day, you will know that it is your time.  In the meantime, feel free to post as often as you like.

I pray that ONE DAY, each will find that moment of clarity on their own terms

Nobody here will try to talk anyone else into doing what they cannot or will not do for themsevles.  

Begin seeking for that moment of clarity.

That moment when powerlessness and hope combine.

When the IMPOSSIBLE seems...POSSIBLE.

When  beating this RAT POISON that controlled us all, becomes THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE.

No amount of desire to quit short of "the MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE"  will do.

Defeating the enemy TRAM isn't possible by half measures.  

Beating this thing isn't anything you simply ADD to your list of things to do.  

The fight MUST CONSUME us or failure is a foregone conclusion.

Victory is possible, regardless of yesterday's defeats if we work like HELL for it.

The DRUG will not go quietly into the night.

But if the drug is tht powerful, imagine what it's doing to our bodies?

Beating this terrible addiction must consume our souls, Any lesser effort will fail.  

About 60 days ago, I made beating this DRUG the most important thing in MY  life.  For 3-4 days the fight nearly consumed me.  But the fight CAN and WILL be won if we take it moment by moment, not looking ahead.

In one of my earliest posts, I talked about my sorry "WIN-LOSS RECORD with this drug.

I commented then, that I had LOST the tramadol fight for six straight years.  Good intentions never paned out for me.  And for 2,190 days straight I was held captive by this drug.  Vacations revolved around my supply.  Work days were interupted so I could run out to get my supply.  I threw fits.  I was lost.  Yup, 2.190 straight days of LOOSING.  So I  kinda think that I might be QUALIFIED to speak to the heart of that person who is afraid os stopping.  For 2,190 straight days, I wanted to quit, but I was too afraid.  

Fearful of how withdrawlas might work out. Fearful of loosing my edge at work and around people generally.  Worried my new self wouldn't cut it.  You see, I lost the battle with this drug, one day at a time, every day, for 2,190 straight days. Yeah, I get that feeling of wanting to quit, but not believing that is possible.  But for this person, all taht changed when I came to these sites by way of the bread crums Emily left on the Internet Machine.  My new friends here told me that beating this addiction was possible.  I saw waht the winners did, and follosed their example.  Others shared very helpful tips to get through the early withdrawal.

I suspect that I read everything Emily posted in her early journal entries SIX times that FIRST WEEK.  I posted like a mad man too,   As Emily said once, distraction is a good thing.

Am I glad I stopped?   Heck yes.  Put double tooth picks on that word and I'll say hell yes.

Freedom from the terrors of being held captive by TRAM is a beautiful thing.

But I still recall posting something in those early days of my recovery - describing my win loss record.  At the time, it was something like 2 wins - 2,190 losses.  I noted THEN that it was not an impressive win-loss record, but it was a start.  As a sports team, I would hve been laughed out of the stadium, folded up, and gone home packing.  Kev encouraged me.  

Today my record is still unimpressive.  It might be 60 wins and 2,190 losses.  But it's a START.

If I had looked ahead to day 60 at the start, I would have been overwelmed.  By determining that I would START by not putting the pretty little white pill in my mouth during that first craving, was a start.  I was on my way.   For that, I am eternally grateful to those who showed me that regardless of how far down I had been, beating this drug may be possible.  And for that I will ever and forever be grateful.

Fred

710395 tn?1249143251
by kevzx81, Jan 30, 2009
Roddy- the tonic water seems to work. Like you say, it  must be the quinine. No rls but Im still not sleeping well. Maybe I got used to the Tram helping me sleep? my stomach still isnt happy either, I eat and still feel hungry or feel hungry but cant eat!  At least my mind is feeling more normal (normal! who you trying to kid?) and I feel like its me in charge again.
For now at least!

I feel like I've faced the worst of whats coming in w/d and I'm feeling confident though tired. AND HUNGRY!
Some of the cravings have been absurd...today I had a craving for water. From the tap! YEEUGH!!!! Is that weird or what?!
I've eaten over 10 boxes of maltesers in a month! At least I've regained the weight I lost while on Tram!

My sleep cycle is in ruins. I dont keep a strict routine, I sleep anytime day or night depending on whats happening in my life, sometimes staying up all night writing music( or more recently boring you guys to death!) but at least it was MY chaos!!

As usual I'm expecting too much too soon.Patience has never been my strong suit,guess I'd better get some practise in!




419772 tn?1266240939
by roddy132, Jan 30, 2009
Trmadol has controlled our lives for so long, influenced our decisions, confused our perceptions, affected our relationships with friends, family and loved ones, taken us over and made us lose touch with who we really are.  I do believe we will find ourselves again and as Kev said ( very wisely ) an opportunity to become more aware of who we really are.  It reminded me of one of my favourite poems by Derek Walcott, written below and i truly hope it resonates with you all.



                               The time will come
                               when, with elation


419772 tn?1266240939
by roddy132, Jan 30, 2009
Sorry hit the wrong key silly Tram moment



                            The time will come
                            when, with elation
                            you will greet yourself arriving
                            at your own door, in your own mirror
                            and each will smile at the others welcome

                            and say, sit here, Eat.
                            You will love again the stranger who was yourself
                            Give wine Give bread, Give back your heart
                            to itself, to the stranger who has loved you

                            all your life,whom you ignored
                            for another, who knows you by heart.
                            Take down the love letters from the bookshelf

                            the photographs, the desperate notes
                            peel your own image from the mirror
                            Sit. Feast on your life
                            

Take Care All  Rod


728026 tn?1273161159
by harmony986, Jan 30, 2009
I needed that, Roddy!  Thanks :)

Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 30, 2009
roddy,  that was fantastic.

and i want to thank you hopereturns for the description of your thoughts in the waiting room.    those incredibly judgemental thoughts.  it was freeing to read that someone else has them too.

thanks kev,  but i probably will not be able to find all those people i gave dirty looks , or  clipped answers,  or the slight but still perceptible eye roll.



710395 tn?1249143251
by kevzx81, Jan 31, 2009
Emergee-they probably wouldnt remember it if you could!!

667826 tn?1233726740
by Organica, Jan 31, 2009
Hello everyone.. lovely to read all your posts.
Emergee.. I think the irritablity may be going to go on for a while with me too, but it's getting far, far less.
I try to tell myself that at least I am FEELING.. responding.. have a mind that gets irritable instead one that is dead and useless.
I am astounded at how dirty I let my home become - I was always considered very neat and clean, but Tramadol turned me into a slob.  So I am cleaning each room really really thoroughly, and it is quite therapeutic - OUT damn tramadol!
love to you all,
Sue

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 31, 2009
Sue,
I agree with the irritable thing. I am still having issue with that. I thought it was gone, but surprise, its not.
Its funny(not really funny) how  you mentioned becoming a slob. I was always a kind of neat-freak. always. Until tramdol. While on it, apparently I THOUGHT I was keeping my house clean, because I was constantly doing something.But, It was nervous energy, and I never got any one thing done. I would start to clean the bedroom, but get sidetracked and end up in the kitchen.And then the TV would get my attention, etc.etc.  major ADD.
What I also didnt realize was I was  accumulating tons of junk that I dont need. I bought so much stuff . I became quite a customer to HSN and QVC. Now, my house is so cluttered its ridiculous. I think the tramadol made me extremely compulsive. But I have trying to sort thru this mess. It is thereapeutic for me as well. Kind of like getting all the tram-yuck out of my house.

Emergee- I hope you are feeling better. I am looking into natural hormone replacement thereapy. Been researching it. Very interesting for women.


Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Jan 31, 2009
Rod,  Wow, that was a beautiful writing.  Thanks for sharing it.  There are a lot of reasons for quitting the dam tram, but NONE can compare with finding our SELF again.  

It's a RARE sunny winter day in Seattle today.  (not warm, but sunny). I'm off to get my hands dirty in the yard.  

Fred

Avatar universal
by kes68, Jan 31, 2009
It is kind of like being hit over the head - everything I have been trying to ignore, pretend didn't exist - stares me in the face when I read all of your posts.  I want my life bace - but sadly, my idea of that is to lower the dose and get that old happy feeling back.

It's not going to happen - is it?
There is no maintaining a dose is there? - it seems like it is an all or nothing drug.

I've never really had to count pills - but I have watched my bank account dwindle, I have had to be careful about how many drugs I steal from friends.

I feel like I am whining a bit - but I am so overwhelmed I don't know where to start.  I own my own business - and cannot take time off.  I am taking over 800mg a day - can I just stop?  or do I taper?

I have read many of the posts - and haven't seen any mention of ringing in the ears.  Anyone else experience this?  


710395 tn?1249143251
by kevzx81, Jan 31, 2009
Kes68- Yes, I got ringing in the ears on and off for a couple of weeks and then it vanished.

Avatar universal
by ultraumatized, Jan 31, 2009
kes69...if you are truly addicted it is nearly impossible to just maintain a dose...seems that your body gets used to it so quickly that it takes more & more to achieve the results you're looking for.

if you just stop it's going to be a few days of absolute hell, i couldn't have done it without time off...with my own experience i know i was so hooked that it would have been impossible to have enough self control to taper slowly.  you basically just have to pick a method & time that will work with your situation, but don't give up!

whatever you decide i wish you luck.

667826 tn?1233726740
by Organica, Jan 31, 2009
Suzipen,  Ditto the accumulation of stuff!!  I became a rampant consumer! SUCH a bizarre drug!
S x

Avatar universal
by emergee, Jan 31, 2009
kes,
please whine away.  that's what the thread is for.   i was glued to medhelp everyday , nearly all day in the beginning.   i appreciate your comment  "everything I have been trying to ignore, pretend didn't exist - stares me in the face ".   that is quite a moment isn't it?  you will survive this and get to the other side.  the mountain in between seems bigger than it really is.  i remember envying suzipen like mad because she had been tramfree for a week when i started.   a week seemed endless.  
i was so clueless and divorced from reality that i was taking perhaps 6 pills a day and thought they were like advil but slightly better.  i hadn't slightest idea that i was addicted or even habituated.  i hadn't really noticed how much money and hassle i put into acquiring the pills.   you own a business ,  you might become aware that you haven't been as effective at managing as you thought.
i did a few days of taper .  a pretty radical taper.  it was so horrible that i decided to get it over with and go ahead and jump off.  i think those few days were valuable though.   i have this idea the shock would have been too intense for my body all at once.   once you do ct though it is not as bad as you fear.   i don't know why.  the tapering is actually worse.  
this is what i needed to have:
heating pad
hot baths with epsom salts
excedrine migraine
excedrine migraine for sleep
sleeping pill
plenty of stupid funny dvds
well stocked fridge with stuff that doesn't need cooking.
vitamins
tyrosine
exercise as much as you can
    

599071 tn?1300072302
by madtram, Jan 31, 2009
Great poem Rod,  says a lot in a few words.

Kes, tramadol's opioid characteristics means that it shares the tolerance attribute common to all opiates. When the mu (major opiate receptors) are occupied by tramadol, they gradually lose their natural responsiveness so that over time more tramadol is required just to maintain a base level.  Some people find that they are going into withdrawal if they just maintain their existing dose which increases the temptation to up the dose, just to feel normal. So irrespective of your strength of character, biology is against you successfully achieving a maintenance dose.

  All opiates also have an inhibitory effect on the other neurotransmitters, (dopamine; serotonin; noradrenaline & GABA); so everything is out of whack, the extent to which will depend on how long you have been on tramadol & your individual biochemistry.  Clearly some people report staying on a prescribed dose of tramadol for years without problems but the majority posting on sites like askapatient.com seem to experience the same problems we have all suffered.

As everyone has advised, CT or taper is a personal decision.  In some ways, a taper is more natural, (provided that you can stick to it), & are steadily decreasing your dose.  It gives your neurochemistry time to adjust gradually & you can support yourself by gradually supplementing with the amino acids in the Thomas Recipe.

CT can be a major shock to the system, especially coming off a higher dose, but for some, it means a week of torture & then things get very much better & you are done, no more tramadol.  The main catch with CT is that its risky to experiment with it.  If you stop for any period, then decide you just can't handle it, there is a risk of seizure if you suddenly start up again, caused by the rapid fluctuations in brain chemicals.

If you decide on CT, you would have to be very lucky not to need to take any time on off, so if your business will really collapse if you have a few days off with "flu", (the symptoms are identical so no-one need know), then CT may not be practical for you.  If you do CT, I would also make sure that you have the other Thomas ingredients like benzos or other sleeping aids as prolonged periods without sleep leaves you with the reasoning powers of someone who has consumed 12 rum & cokes, not good for business or staying committed to a plan.

You may find that the withdrawals hit in a random pattern which is very common.  This can be extremely disconcerting but does have one upside, there may be days, even early on when you are more functional.  I think our dear Emily who went CT, managed to keep working by taking a day or two off when needed rather than collapsing in a total heap for a week.  This takes A LOT of psychological strength though, I had plenty of days when my willpower just would not come to the party even though before withdrawal, I had never missed a day of work.

I also had the ear droning rather than ringing but thankfully, that was one of the first things to clear up.  Let us know what you decide & we will do our darnedest to support you through it.

M

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Jan 31, 2009
Hi Guys-this post was on a thread that I had responded to. She addressed it to me. I have replyed but I dont want to tell her the wrong thing. PLEASE read it and respond to her if you feel you have good advice. I can talk to addicts all day long, but this is the worried parents, and I really want them to have some sound advice.
Thanks guys. you're all the best.
Her name is     Jennie1213.       She posted on the addiction forum under the thread "Ultram" You can leave her a note, or post on the same thread. Thanks again !!!!! Love you guys!

She wrote:

"My daughter and son-in-law are extremely addicted to Oxycontin, Roxicodone and Xanax ... they take all 3.   Their lives over the past 2 1/2 years has completely deteriorated.   They drive while under the influence of this junk too.   They are almost comotose 50% of the time.  They have a 5 year old daughter (my granddaughter).   I now believe they are shooting some of this medication into their vains.  They, at first, would not admit any addiction to any drug at all.  Over the last 6 months they have admitted the addiction; however, they may very rarely say they want to stop, but then get agitated if you push the subject.  Have been very loving and supportive, but also very angry at them when they don't want to seem to even desire to stop.   My husband and I have offered help a million times and they know we would help in a minute!    If they don't stop soon, I believe that both or one of them will die from overdose or car crash ... or kill someone else too.   Does anyone who has been addicted know of a way to talk to them about getting serious about getting help without making them mad.   We have been as non-judgemental as possible.  Why don't they want help???   They have had accidents, losing their home, are not paying any bills, had electric shut off, lost a job, etc.   What will it take???  Please give any advice to a really worried and stressed out mother and father who has never been addicted to anything and does not understand it.   God Bless "


Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Feb 02, 2009
Kes,  I agree with everything madtram shared with you about beating this drug. I did a radical taper (going from 8 trams/day to just 2 trams/day) for FIVE  days before starting c/t.  I can't say that the taper that I did was any easier than the symptoms I experienced after stopping entirely.  Others here have done a more rational taper  - some with good results.  I simply KNEW that I didn't have the will power to make a very gradual taper work for myself.

The thing is, I think that due to the tolerance one has built up in their system, as the body is screaming for more (and you are taking less) you WILL have withdrawal symptems during a taper.  By the time I decided to stop, I had another RX waiting to be picked up.  But I simply had had enough.  I was READY to get off the tram-o-train.

Kes, you know what it's like riding the tram-o-train.  We can carefully consider all the options, but in the end, we each just do the best we can, with the information at hand.  

Some may think this is offered carelessly, but I believe that the important question that begs to be answered is what is your RESOLVE?  For several years, I was not resolved to get off the train.  The tram-o-train undoubtedly stopped at either "taper" or "cold turkey" numberous times, but I was not ready to disembark.  Another person may have PUSHED me off at one of those stops before I was ready to get off and stay off, but I would have climbed right back on if I had not RESOLVED to quit.  

I am not certain that staying off the tram-o-train is possible without strong and certain self resolution.  When you find that resolve, others here will offer encouragement and tips to make it possible. It will never be easy to quit, but it is always POSSIBLE.

I used a week of vacation to c/t this demon drug.  I would NOT have WANTED to try to work that first week, and I am not sure I COULD have worked that first week coming off tramadol.  But once you go through the first few days of withdrawal, things will get much easier.

Like emergee said, I " was glued to medhelp everyday , nearly all day in the beginning".   The POSSIBILITY of others gave me hope that it was possible for me too.

Nobody here will hoist you off the train.  But stay in touch.  And when it is your time, you will know it.  And when you step of the train, we will be here to offeer our support.  Because it was that support by others that made our disembark possible.

Fred

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Feb 02, 2009
Kes they call it tolerance, when the drug stops working. It turns on you. Can you get off? Yes. I actually don't see at 16 pills a day that you have a choice except get off and live; stay on and eventually have death or severe disability ... seizure ...

Yeah,  run my own show also. And like MadTram says I did take a long weekend, and then I randomly missed days, half days, hours ... it didn't collapse my business. I also didn't die during the process so two big miracles!

I found something I saved in my Tramadol files ... Seems like a nice time to share. Written by another MedHelp Member ... basically about the emotional states before surrender ... enjoy
_____________________________________________________________


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CATUF
Male, 50 years
Member since Mar 2002
Mood: CATUF is Committed
Journal Entry:   "To Mom-in-Stress (who felt like a failure..." [Read]




, 1 hour ago
Doesn't sound to me like anything's wrong with you . . . you're just coming back to life.  that's a very good thing, but it can be a bit painful at times.

I was starting the 3rd week of my 2nd residential rehab within 5 months, when one morning I went from: a) an alert and determined man focused getting his life back; to b) a quivering mess that could not stop crying.  I'm not talking about getting a bit misty-eyed, I'm talking about whole body convulsing, loud sobbing that could not be stifled or hidden, eyes and nose overflowing like they were connected to a fire hydrant.  

It really was quite disturbing and unexpected – one minute I was gung ho on marching through this recovery-business, paying the dues required on account of my failure to keep my little cat in its bag . . . i knew it was going to be tough, but i was tougher and i was already going . . . then, the next minute i was FALLING APART.

Now all this started began when I was in a room full of people.  Like someone who knows they must get to the bathroom FAST because they KNOW they’re about to hurl, I KNEW that I had to get out of that room and far down the hall IMMEDIATELY.  I made it into an empty room, shut the door and it erupted. It just erupted and it would not stop.

Some part of me still seemed to be intact, because i can clearly remember rationally thinking “wow, this is not good, this is bad - you’ve lost your mind, you really need to stop this now, YOU ARE FALLING COMPLETELY APART . . . . ” etc.  That part may have been rational, but the rest of me just shook, cried, sniffed and sobbed (loudly).  i suppose there was one other small part that kept looking around like a trapped and panicked animal . . . I’m not sure what I was looking for, but I remember that feeling.

The next thing I knew there were firm hands on my shoulders . . . the panicked animal looked up to see Doc, an older, very kind counselor, who was himself in recovery, but only after many stabs at rehab.  “Doc” wasn’t just a random nickname, he actually was an M.D.,  Board Certified in orthopedic surgery.  He had been a big deal in a major eastern city before his addiction to opiates took control of and destroyed that life.

I’m not sure how long Doc just stood there with his hands on me.  But at some point I got at least the louder sobbing under control and he said something to me that I have never forgotten.  Doc looked me in the eye and said: “Never be ashamed to cry my friend . . .  “don’t hold back your tears . . . for in those tears are the seeds of your redemption.”  

Doc gave me a hung as I continued to convulse, now on his shoulder, he told me to take as long as I wanted, but come back to the group whenever I was ready.  I took a while, but I made it back to the group.

For quite a while now it has seemed to me, when I look back at those episodes, that I was not falling apart at all.  Instead, I think I was finally falling together.  I had been broken for a long time and had been keeping the pieces of myself held together by constant effort and force of will.  It always seemed like if I ever failed in that effort that I would in fact crumble into little tiny pieces – so much so that just like Humpty Dumpty, all the king's horses and all the king's men could never put me together again.

Not long after that episode with Doc, I was hit with the same thing only worse.  It was really bad and I knew to a certainty that I just could no longer maintain the effort to hold all my pieces together.  I just couldn’t do.  I had to quit.  I was too tired.  I was too beaten.  I had fallen too far and I just didn’t care anymore.  I knew that giving up meant certain destruction, but I was just too tired to care anymore.  

So that’s what I did, I quit.  I really did. I completely quit.  I said out loud “I give up” and I passively waited for my end to arrive.

I was completely surprised to find that my unplanned surrender was the beginning, not the ending of me.  Somehow, by giving up I finally started a recovery that became (and is) a sustained recovery.  Somehow, instead of becoming nothing (or at least not-me) as I had feared, I became more-me than I had ever been in my life.  

I had no plan to go off like this, but your post reminded me of Doc, who I am sad to say died last month.  He helped and was loved by many good drug addicts.  I wonder if I would be here without him.  Hard to say, but I’m glad I knew him.

Anyway, crying is part of recovery.  Try not to worry about it.

CATUF
3-3-5
______________________________________________________

Love and Healing,
Emily

Avatar universal
by kes68, Feb 02, 2009
Emily

I do not know is you realize how close to home you hit.  That is exactly how I feel right now - like a house of cards, just waiting for one more to be pulled out and for the whole thing to come crashing down.
I have not cried in years - and cannot - I have to hold on so tightly - the idea of giving up control terrifies me.
But I am slowly realizing I have not been in control for years - the more of the posts I read, the more I can relate, and realize it is going to come to an end one way or another very soon.

Yes Fred - I want off the tram o train - I know it should make me feel good - but it scares the hell out of me.

I am glad you guys are here


689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Feb 02, 2009
Kes,
It is o-k to be scared. That is normal. We have all been scared.
You are sooooooo right about not being in control.
You arent; the tramadol is in control. It controls your thoughts, your schedule, and even your finances.
YOU need to take back control. It is not easy, but it is POSSIBLE!
That was one thing I needed to realize for myself. That it was possible and there was a light at the end of the tunnel.
That is what this forum did for me- made me see all the others who had done it and survived. Not only survived, but........
found themselves.
It is a process, and my journey is not even over yet, but at least I can say it is MY journey. And NOT tramadols journey.
This drug LIES to you. It ***** you in and then leaves you a mess.
Whatever way you CHOOSE to clean up your "mess" is o-k. By that, I mean tapering or c/t. Everyone is different in this area. (I know you've heard this before)       Some do well with a long taper, others do c/t.    I did it kind of in between.     VERY fast taper, and then stopped c/t. The problem is, you wont know which way is best for you until you do it.
Like madtram said, tapering takes a lot of strength (and willpower).

Just know we are here.
hugs to you, suzi




419772 tn?1266240939
by roddy132, Feb 03, 2009
Hi Kes
          YES YES YES  it can be done trust me.  I am one of the taper brigade who decided that i wasnt sure i had the strength to go CT.  I was taking 500mgs 4 mths ago and i am now down to 100mgs a day.  It isnt easy i admit but you must call on the strength and resolve that lies within you and you do have it Kes IT CAN BE DONE. When i first started to taper i went through all the withdrawal symptoms both physical and emotional and began to think it would never improve. But IT DOES IMPROVE as each day passes the symptoms become more manageable and thats when your body is telling you reduce a little more.  I am not advocating that taper is the best and only way but it was for me  Many very brave people here have gone CT and i salute them, whichever route you chose the end result is the same, to be TRAM FREE.  Please take heart reading all these posts and be assured IT CAN BE DONE KES    Take Care Rod

Avatar universal
by kes68, Feb 03, 2009
Will the withdrawal be less if I cut back a bit first?

Just wondering if C/T from 800mg will  put me out of comission for longer than it I was able to taper down to 400 mg first.

I know it is not going to be pleasant, and there is no way to avoid discomfort.  I have c/t from other opiates before - and I know this is supposed to be worse - but I am trying to figure out how to manage a business while I do this.

Thank you Rod and Suzi - I am starting to feel like this is going to happen.  

Kelly  

Avatar universal
by nrecovery, Feb 03, 2009
ive just finished reading all the tramadol stories....hers mine. i was on 20 pills aday for several years. going through withdrawls almost every month because id go through my 2 prescriptions from 2 different doctors too soon. withdrawls were just as bad if not worse than they were off the oxycontins. i was also going through 90 .5mg zanax in just 4 days. then, i was seeing things. dreaming while awake...yelling s--t out that made no since whatsoever...scaring my family. NOW...my best addictive thinking has gotten me on SUBOXONE 2-8MG TABLETS EVERY DAY FOR THE PAST 8 MONTHS. im in for HELL again i guess. im in "the program " though and, have a lot of support. i pray for all of you. I CAN TOTALLY RELATE! dave

Avatar universal
by emergee, Feb 03, 2009
kes,
    i read a post a while back that described a very elaborate taper.  it involved cutting the pills.  i don't really remember it well,  but i know this person shaved a portion of the pill off per week.   they were quite satisfied with their progress.  you could start right away and see how you react .  in that way you could be doing something,  not thinking about it which creates a lot of fear.   if it's too much then you  could back off and shave slightly less off the pill.   possibly a sense of control would be helpful to you.  but just reducing something is a step forward and away from hopelessness and fear.

667826 tn?1233726740
by Organica, Feb 03, 2009
Kes, I really agree with emergee - if you could just make the smallest of cuts -make it achievable.  Introduce your mind to the idea gradually.
I tapered very very gradually, over months. I stopped completely on the 7th January this year and I can honestly say that I have found the old me again... I cannot believe what this drug did to me.
ANY win is a win over tramadol.  Trick this insidious little drug into submission. Start somewhere, no matter how tiny it seems.


Avatar universal
by kes68, Feb 03, 2009
I am feeling pretty motivated - you guys are great.  The starting small, and just taking things slowly I can do.  Hopefully as my confidence builds I can continue to take bigger steps.  I have to set aside the mess my life is right now because of this damn drug - and just focus on what I have control over right now.
So if I am taking 16 - 20 a day I will stay at 16 this week - no more.  While I am tapering will any vitamins, amino acids - anything like that help - or do I have too much in my system for it to do any good?


667826 tn?1233726740
by Organica, Feb 03, 2009
Go with the vitamins etc, Kes, and have a sense that they are doing you good.. the mind is a powerful thing!   If you can cope with vegie juice, I found that really useful.  My body craved junk on Tramal - time to show it who is boss!
And congratulations on knowing you can have no more than 16 this week!
Well done,
Sue

599071 tn?1300072302
by madtram, Feb 04, 2009
Good for you Kes.  I don't think it matters how long the taper takes you,as long as you never find yourself taking more again.

The Thomas recipe stuff needs a bit of self-experimentation to find just what works for you.  You should definitely load up on B vitamins & theanine. If you start to get anxiety, you could try adding 50mgs of 5htp but just be careful as your current dose of tramadol may be having quite a strong effect on your serotonin levels.  Rhodiola is good & can be started straight away.

If you get fatigue issues, some of us have benefited from l-tyrosine or DLPA & it's fine to take both while still on tramadol.

Herbal sleeping remedies like valerian are also fine with tramadol.  Support your neurotansmitters with plenty of good quality protein.  Turkey is especially good & lots of oily fish or capsules if you don't like fish.

There are lots of tips about what has worked for others, all thru Em's journal so it's worth reading the whole thing over time.  The only natural remedies that need caution around tramadol are the serotonin acting substances; tryptophan, 5htp, passionflower & St John's Wort.  To be safe, add any of these in minimum doses to start with but they can provide much added mood support.

Best wishes

Michelle

750886 tn?1235640344
by priceiswright, Feb 04, 2009
Hello Friends,

I am a lurker. A past tramadol addict - 8 days CT and going strong. I've been reading Emily's journal like mad this past week and it has surely helped. Also listening to Fred and some others who hit the nail on the head with this demon drug and what it's done to my life. I am ANGRY also. But, I can't imagine how ANGRY those of you might be who were legally prescribed the drug claiming it was non-addictive and not being told it was an anti-depressant. I started taking tramadol recreationaly 2 years ago. I can't remember when I started using it every day but I think it must have been sometime in Feb or March of 08. I would take anywhere from 3 - 18 pills a day. Maybe more. I never counted (until I was close to running out) - you know the junkie likes to count to make sure I'll always have a supply.One day, about 6 months ago, I ran out of pills. I thought I was going to die and go completely insane. I vowed to never NOT have a supply. I convinced myself that tramadol was fine to take long term because it was like my anti-depressant. Well obviously, you don't pop 20 anti-depressant pills to get high.

Anyway, I followed the Thomas Recipe and read all these posts on vitamins and exercise. I have to say that quitting seemed IMPOSSIBLE to me at first, but when I declared WAR - it was on. Baths were my savior. I couldn't sleep for a few nights. I did a very quick taper then CT. I was planning on tapering off for over a month but after 3 days of tapering, I went CT. I didn't want these drugs in me and I didn't want them to control my life for one more day. I am really feeling good physically. Emotionally, I am somewhat of a wreck, yes had the crying spells, the anxiety, the depression. But each day is getting easier for me. I feel proud to be sober and I feel proud I was able to get through the worst of the withdraws. I think people have documented their withdraws enough here, so no need to go into them BUT I can say that the day I decided to quit, I was dreading it SO bad, I wanted to DIE. But truly, it was not as HORRIBLE as I imagined. And maybe that's because I had read so many stories of the W/D lasting for so long for some people. No doubt it is effecting me still but I thought I'd still be going through pain and I just have a mild case of stomach cramps. The emotional for me is the worst., the depression, the anxiety. I had cravings for tramadol the first few days. I had no idea how I would do ANYTHING without tramadol. I couldn't even watch a 30 minute TV show because I kept thinking of tramadol. My cravings for the drug are pretty much gone and I KNOW I will never take another because I don't want to be controlled by a drug.

The one thing that I feel is missing or at least not talked about as much is how tramadol affected a user's life NEGATIVELY. People talk about the extreme energy and yaddy ya but I'd much rather hear about the tramadol fog or read Fred's list of why he hated Tramadol and what he wanted back in his life. (I think it was Fred).

At the most and near the end, I was taking 7 - 8 pills at a time and not feeling anything from them. I just took them to feel "normal" whatever normal was.....when I was on tramadol NORMAL was
- being completely void of emotion and feelings
- thinking only of myself
- going to my purse every few hours to take more pills
- calling the online pharmacy to make sure I would never be out of pills
- not laughing, you know the type of laughs that make your belly hurt (I am laughing again. It's a WONDERFUL feeling)
- sleeping 12 hour nights
- counting pills to make sure I wasn't running out
- lying to my family and friends about what I was doing
- hiding my addiction
- not showing affection to my boyfriend
- almost ruining a perfectly great relationship due to irrational tramadol thoughts
- increased depression
- losing my personality, charm, and charisma
- looking like an anorexia patient from how much weight I'd lost
- not participating in family activities (one person talked about her experience during christmas and how she had to be dragged out of bed by her husband and didn't enjoy seeing her daughter opening presents)
- losing my creativity
- losing my vision
- making completely irrational life changing decisions (did anyone else experience this?? it was almost manic...)
- Tramadol made me hate my job. Lose another job. And quit another job after 1 day. Tramadol made me think that I was invincible and not realizing that I was actually RUINING my life.

Thank you to ALL of you. I would not have been able to do this without your thoughts. I'd love to hear more stories on what people lost when they were on tramadol, what they wanted back, why tramadol hurt them...etc.

Always supportive.....




Avatar universal
by kes68, Feb 04, 2009
Actually that is probably a great thing for me to do.  I need to keep reminding myself why I want off this.  

My life on the tram train (I know- I stole the phrase from Fred! )
I have been on it for over 3 years now - started with 2 - 4 pills a day - now I am anywhere from 16 - 20

- lack of energy
- lousy sleeping habits
- Lying, cheating, stealing - to make sure I would never run out
- decieving family, friends and my partner
- fog, fog and more fog - one day just fades into another
- no emotion
- no enthusiasm for anything, I look forward to nothing
- depression and despair
- my once sucessful business is barely hanging on
- I have hidden all the money I have spent on tram from my partner
- withdrawing from all social things - prefering to be alone
- inconsistant moods  
- no sex drive
- a constant ringing in my ears
- this may be over sharing - but constant stomach and bowel issues

When I read it over - I know it's true, it is who I have become, how miserable I am - I need to be free of this poison!

    
  

738790 tn?1377724594
by KC67, Feb 04, 2009
Hello everyone.  I have taken DAYS to read all of your posts.  I am so inspired.  You are all so positive and encouraging.  After 3 years of increasing doses of Tram, I am going to join you and JUMP OFF the trama-train.  My "day 1" will be next Monday as I had to plan for days off from work.  

I look forward to posting more and can't wait to say "I'm on Day 8 !!!!"  That phrase will keep me motivated to endure the he-double toothpicks that I am going to have to go through next week.

Thank you so much for all of your stories and for keeping this journal so upbeat and positive.  Emily, you are a saint and a pioneer!  I have searched the web for months looking for proof that I was addicted to this drug - and until I found your journal, I truly thought I was going crazy every time I tried to decrease my dose - experience the withdrawals - and then being told that Tram was "non-addictive".  It took me quitting Effexor and Buspar to realize that the REAL culprit behind the stealing of my life, personality, and all of the other traits that Kes posted (above) was - TRAMADOL!!  I even thought my vitamins might be causing all of the anxiety when I missed a dose of Tram.  Anyway, thanks to YOU, Emily, and all the rest of you brave souls who have BEAT this drug, I finally have great hope and am ready to wage WAR on Tramadol - beginning Monday, Feb. 9th.

I am terrified, as I have already experienced the withdrawals (not intentionally - just from missing a few doses) and know what next week will be like.  But I take great comfort in knowing that ALL of you have sucessfully (or will soon successfully) beat this drug - and I want to be in your club!

With love and hope,
KC

Avatar universal
by emergee, Feb 04, 2009
not participating in family activities (one person talked about her experience during christmas and how she had to be dragged out of bed by her husband and didn't enjoy seeing her daughter opening presents)


hahahaha,  i am sorry to laugh ,  this is atrocious behavior but i am laughing to see someone else was like me!   thank god i don't have kids!  

what personality charm and charisma?  do you mean that is tramadol's fault too?   i had gotten to this place where i didn't care at all what kind of effect i had on people,  and i always had a reason why THEY were obnoxious.   i have been thinking my personality went down the drain with my divorce.  there is hope yet.

755837 tn?1234823754
by daveat50, Feb 04, 2009
Well, I've come stopped taking Ultram several times in the last 5 years just to make sure I wasn't addicted. I've made a practice of it. The most I've ever taken in a day was 4x100mg. Usually I am in the 1-2 level. For years I've also done 1/2 dose a day at times. Today was a 1/2 dose day.

Every time I've put it down to see if I was addicted, it wasn't a problem walking away from it until the 3rd or 4th day. Always the 4th day. I'd be stressed and in lots of pain. Usually due to my neck disc and in that area so I believed that I am indeed hurting and this stuff saves me from the pain. My wife says I would get irritable at her but I don't remember acting differently. I've made it to 7 days before and still hurt. Now I found out I've just got severe arthritis in the neck - it was just so bad they couldn't tell if it was a bad disc or not.

Last night, I handed my wife my bottle of Ultram and reminded her what I told her years ago - if I ever hand you the bottle and say 'keep it away from me. I don't like what it is doing to me. My brain doesn't work right on it.' Please keep it away.

She recommended that I taper off. I knew she had been studying this medicine for years and wasn't surprised when she left this journal up to read on the monitor.

I am ready to quit. I feel artistically dead at times for years- no gumption to create. My real work becomes a chore and I also believe that Ultram doesn't help me concentrate anymore. It kind of creates the opposite effect - I'm more scattered then I've ever been. That is career threatening.

I wouldn't normally take my pill as soon as I would wake up. I'd drive to work, get a couple of cups of coffee and then (truthfully) find myself touching the pill in my shirt pocket through my shirt. As if my 'binky' was there if I ever needed it.

I do get an awful lot of pain. Before I was on Ultram there were times when all I could do after getting home was lay on my side and take the weight of my head off my neck. I think it is time to suck it up and move on. When I caught myself just touching it to feel better - well that is freaking weird.

I've dropped to 1/2 pill beginning today. I didn't take it until I was leaving work (40 minute drive home) so the whole day without until then. I'm going to try again.

But folks - if in a week I'm still laying there in great pain after that fourth day, I'm going back to it. I need to function and I need to bring the bacon home.

I'll check back in. Some of you who post here have been taking what I would call 'mass quantities' for years. I've never followed directions. I would just take it when it started to hurt but I am sure in my 5 or 6 years (I can't remember) of taking it, I've got quite a supply of it built up in my brain regardless of whether or not I rationalize only 100mg to 200mg per day as opposed to 600-800...or 1500mg at a time. My gosh. That's not right.

For my family I'm giving it an effort. For my job I'm giving it an effort. For me? Well if I truly wanted a drug I could enjoy I'd just start smoking marijuania again and yes, it has been over 10 years since I've done that. I won't go back to it either. Talk about a 'career ender'. One pee test with it in my system and it is over.   But Ultram? No problem.

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by suzipen, Feb 04, 2009
Hi everyone!  
Wow!!  Some new people here. Well WELCOME newcomers! Its amazing how many of us have fallen prey to this "non addictive,harmless drug".
First, I wholeheartedly agree with priceiswright about talking about "life" on tramadol. (There really is nothing positive that happens while on it.) We THINK we feel better, but as we all know, tramadol LIES to us!
As I have said before, I THOUGHT I was more energetic, funnier, friendlier, etc.etc. But, I wasnt.
Now , 5 years later, my husband has made me see what a complete bi***  I had become. I dont really remember what I was like before I became a tram-a-bot. I think this is weird. How could I not remember my personality before I got hooked???  I know things I enjoyed to do, but stopped doing. Thats about it.      Sad.
One thing I am going thru right now concerns my best friend. She still takes it ( I think sometimes 20/day).
I can see the personality changes in her, and I think I was just like her before I went off of it.
This is what I remember now-
Being totally self absorbed
No sex drive at all
Major mood swings (still have those periodically)
Weird energy boosts, and then none
Crazy buying binges............I mean really crazy. I have stuff still in the box that I ordered from tv.
Spending a whole year paying rent for a business that I never put 100% into, because I always had 20 things going at once, so I couldnt concentrate on one thing.
Getting up in the morning and ,literally, dragging myself out of bed and not functioning until I had my "meds".
Never laughing. Never.
Being rude, and that really isnt me.
Not cleaning my house like I used to. (Hey, I remember liking to clean!)
And the list goes on.................

Oh emergee- I too can remember not caring about others. It was always their fault!!!!

Just a few words for daveat50- if you can go 4 days.........PLEASE dont go back. WHY????? If your pain is bad, try something else. 4 days off tram is a big deal!  We all need to function. I have 3 children, and they needed me while I was going thru w/d too. You can do it, if you can go 4 days! Really!!!
You're obviously a strong person. I wish you well. Truly.

Kes- Keep it up!!! You will get there. Keep posting, as it will really help.

My thoughts and prayers are with all of you.
love,suzi











Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Feb 05, 2009
Hello Newcomers!  I always get excited when a  "lurker" decides to join us and post.  This thread saved my life and I am confident that it can work MAGIC in others' lives' as well.  

KC, you have a marvelous plan set in place for Monday.  How fortunate that you are able to do this while not having to work.  I began my c/t on a Tuesday, only because I had a mediation to go to that day.  So I took my last two trams the night before and was able to sleep reasonably well and carry out what I needed to do on Tuesday.  In my experience, the 2-4th days are the worst.  For me, it was the inability to sleep that eventually caught up with me.  And the flu like symptoms.  But I think that we all DO have a very good idea of what withdrawal will be like.  I my case, I suffered withdrawal symptoms every month - as I tried to live within the prescribed # of the pills my doc was giving  me - and finding that the difference between what my body expected and what I gave it resulted in a sort of choronic withdrawal at the end.   Some of the major factors in my decision to quit included:

I was sick and tired of suffering regular withdrawal symptoms.  I wanted to be DONE with this lovely little white pill.

I was sick and tired of feeling like I had to explain to my doctor why I still needed this drug...guilt.

I was sick and tired of hoping my doctor wasn't on vacation or out of the office on the day I NEEDED by RX filled. On a couple of occassions, my RX of trfams wasn't ready when I expected/needed them.  And you wouldn't believe how I carried on to fight to get my drug when I was running out.  Yuck!  Don't miss those scenes.

I was sick and tired of leaving work to run down to pick up my drug.

Nope,I don't miss this terrible drug.

Price, congratulations on a job well done.  Your story  layed out a beautiful pattern of  HOPE . Others here will take heart from reading your success - when they are wondering if it is possible you showed the way.  And thanks for mentioning BATHS.  I was a big bath guy that first week.  I think my record was 6 baths in one night.  I was nearly a pickle by teh end of the night.  But the hassel of getting in and out of the tub does not compare to the irritation of getting in and certain  I had worn out the old one tossing and turning and getting in and out of the bed.  The sleeplessnes does pass - fortuntely.

Dave, you sound like you are in a good groove.  But you said, "folks - if in a week I'm still laying there in great pain after that fourth day, I'm going back to it. I need to function and I need to bring the bacon home".   IF YOU GO FOUR DAYS WITHOUT TAKING THIS DRUG AND DECIDE TO BEGIN TAKING IT AGAIN, my heart goes out to you.  Everyone's withdrawal period is different depending on the time and quanity on the drug.  Your withdrawal might be 3 days or it could be 5.  

Everyone here will still love you if you give in and get back on the trarm-o-train.  There aren't any SAINTS in this bunch that I am aware of. All of us were in your shoes at one point, NOT SO LONG AGO.  But the question I would ask is,  do you really want to waste AN INVESTMENT OF 3-4 days and give up while the end is so close in sight?  Because the next time you decide to quit, it won't be any easier than IT IS RIGHT NOW.  

I get that needing to bring home the bacon.  Especially in this economy, If we have jobs now, there is a great deal of pressure to "perform".  Sleep could be a huge issue for you if you are trying to work while withdrawing.  You will feel liike you have the flu.  If you need to work the next few days, maybe  you could tell your boss you DO have the flu?  You will definately have the symptoms.

I have thought a lot about working during the first week of withdrawal.  People do it, but I can't imagine that it's easy.  About the only job I can imagine myself doing during my 1st week of withdrawal, is getting into one of those big animal suits and standing on a street corner, holding up a "pizza here" sign.  Not even sure i could ahev done that with the sleep loss I had.  But the good news is that these early symptoms do pass and FREEDOM is around the corner.

If you can struggle through and have the weekend off, you should be past the worst of it by Monday.  Read "Price's" post again,  She said that "when I declared WAR - it was on".  I have never served in the armed forces, but I can't imagine any waririor going into battle UNLESS they are well armed with a positive attitude.  Without anticipating (tasting/visioning) victory.  Half measures will probably not get us through c/t.  But I believe you can do this Dave.  I am a regular, weak minded person and i don't follow directions well either.  If Fred can beat this thing, so can you.  

Arm yourself for battle and I'll bet on you that you can make it.  One tiny moment at a time.  As much as possible, try not to look ahead to the day ahead of you.  Keep posting brother.

Kes, I am so happy that you are posting regularly.  I am sensing that you now see the common thread that we all share here.  That's FAB. You said, " I need to keep reminding myself why I want off this".   Good thoughts. And I really like the list of reasons you listed for determining to get off this nasty drug.  Good reminders to us all...thanx.  You helped keep be sober today.

Two things not to worry about: (1) stealing lines from old Fred.  I rarely have an original thought, in my brain but feel free to "steal" anything I post.  It's flattering actually.  (2) don't fear "over-sharing".  There have been some pretty graphic things shared in this room.  I expect that whatever symptoms you have and want to share, some one else here has experienced something similar and probably described it more graphically that you can even imagine.  

Newcomers, I can't tell you how rewarding it is to see your posts today.  Because of you, I just might make it through another 24 hours  of sobriety.  Thanks you guys!  

Fred





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by KC67, Feb 05, 2009
Dear Fred, Suzi, Emergee, Organica, Kev, and everyone else on this post - especially Emily for starting it,
Thanks for your encouragement.  If you hapen to remember that far back, what day are you on now?  Just curious.  Every day is a day to celebrate!  One more day further from the last Tram. dose you will ever have!  

I am actually excited about jumping off the Tram-o-train (thanks for letting us borrow your phrases, Fred).  It sounds like pieces of your lives are coming back every day.  I can't wait to say, "I'm on Day 8 or 20, or 100".  You should be so proud of your accomplishments that you can say these words.  I am envious of you all.

Question on the sleep...are you all sleeping well now or do you have occasional bouts of return withdrawal.  How about the anxiety?  As I mentioned before, I have experienced these withdrawals due to either forgetting a dose or running out of pills.  I went without Tram for 4 days before and remember that the anxiety/depression were almost unbearable.  Also 4 sleepless nights in a row.

I am preparing for war on Monday - ready for lots of baths, got my aminos, got my b12 sublinguals, got my Gaba, but most importantly, I have all of you!  Thank you for continuing to post.  It restores my faith in humanity that even though you are done with taking this poison, you still hang around to help people like me.

Dave, PriceIsRight, and anyone else....we can DO THIS!  We WILL do this!   We WILL be a part of this brave and amazing club !
Sincerely,
KC

Avatar universal
by JK90, Feb 05, 2009
Hi, I'm new here =)

Basically, I was given tramadol as a painkiller when I recieved a terrible injury to my kneecap (snapped it eeep). I'm 18, turning 19 next month. I didn't know anything about this drug, I just thought, ah well if they're giving it to me it surely has to be safe... doesn't it?

I live in the UK, hard to get meds here farcry from ordering them from the otherside of the world.

Anyway, recently I have noticed lack of passion, drive, or any other real emotion. I live in my own little "bubble" per se, and am looking for my next doseage as soon as I wake up every morning. Reading here for a while I didn't really notice the grasp it had on me until I had read alot of the messages on this board, and am suprised how many were actually hidden under the surface.

I havent been taking as many as most, at first, about 2x50mg every 8 hours or so, this has gone up to 3 or 4 every and the effects are wearing thin still.

In a brief moment of clarity yesterday, I awoke, walked down to the dreaded drug cabinet and grabbed the pills, pacing around for a few minutes and really thinking "Why do I need these?" I have no real pain issues anymore and the only reason I am taking them is to feel happy and I think it makes me appear nicer to other people. It doesn't. I walked to the bathroom and flushed the whole lot... Obviously I regretted this an hour later...

I'm away at university, first year. My parents have noticed a difference in me but were quelled by the smooth-talking doctor who ensures me they ARE NOT addictive, he actually raised his voice to ensure I would comply. Is this a conspiracy or what!

End of day 2 now anyway, pain everywhere, can't sleep for love or money... Restless legs are an understatement! I for one now know I am never going to be taking these again, after 2 years of living in a haze, where did all the time go? In a hope for living my life, I'm making a stand.

Thanks for reading, I hope I can do this...

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by roddy132, Feb 05, 2009
Hi JK90,
            Welcome to the site i also live in the UK and have been posting on here since last Nov ( i think ).  I also have a Tram addiction and have been weaning myslf off the poison by tapering  You will get some great support off the guys on here who have all had their own personal battles with Tramadol and if you read their post you will find that YOU CAN KICK THE HABIT. AS WELL.  Many on here have decided to go Cold Turkey and they are suceeding, and some where on higher doses than yourself, so you can do it   I am sure you will be hearing from some of them once they have read your post.

Yes we have all been told how safe this medication is and have found out, to our own physical and emotional cost, that this is a complete lie. We all know how Tramadol has ruled and ruined  our lives, but you most certainly can get your life back and be again the person you once where and burst that" bubble" your trapped in.

Keep posting and reading, you will get some helpful advice and support on here ohh by the way you may find if you drink Indian Tonic Water! this may help with the RLS give it a try and hang in there

Take Care Rod

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by madtram, Feb 05, 2009

Welcome JK90, I'm also at uni, (med student).  Withdrawals are tough, no doubt but you will find that study gets so much easier again when the tram is out of your system.  While I was on it, I just accepted that I must be getting dumber, nearly everything was acceptable, thanks to tram.

Luckily, the break through withdrawals starting kicking in so I had insomnia even while taking it & I finally caught on that tramadol was the problem.

If things get too tough & u need  a med certificate for your studies, many docs diagnose your symptoms as a virus.  I'm not encouraging dishonesty,  but u should not have to pay the price of withdrawing from something that was virtually shoved down your throat without warning.  Also many docs will still not accept that it's possible to have such bad withdrawal from something "non-addictive", so going with the flu may be easier.

U may find study more of a struggle until your sleep returns to normal so make sure u get medical support if needed so they know that u are not just slacking off.  I guarantee U won't regret the decision to flush.

Best wishes

Michelle

Avatar universal
by emergee, Feb 05, 2009
kc87 ,  i quit thanksgiving day ,  nov 28.   i still have some issues but it's hard to know if they are pre-existing health issues that were made worse by tram.   over all ,  i am much better than i was taking tram.  i probably had brain fog then but didn't notice.  i was short -tempered then but blamed it on others.  my lack of energy is now something i can address and try to heal,  rather than mask it with tram.
i also wanted to know the truth from people, so i understand you asking.   but you must know that there have been others who get off and are fine very quickly.   one guy, at christmas time,  couldn't sleep ,  i think it was his first night.  so he got up,  shovelled snow all night , felt so energized by that , he jumped in the car and drove across several states to visit relatives for xmas.   we never heard from him again.

755837 tn?1234823754
by daveat50, Feb 05, 2009
Thanks for the good word folks. I had given up cigarettes years ago cold turkey, and it was tough but I did it. I am a musician by nature so you can imagine what I've been exposed to through the years. People have died around me.

I like seeing others - just in one day - who signed on also. That is encouraging and I encourage you. Noobies!

I'll read back. The new(er) folks then me (happy 24 hours almost) - good luck in your struggle. I've just spent my second 1/2 pill day today...tapering off. I'm going to do it.

As the quote from the terminator movie goes - 'come with me if you want to live'.

Here goes...

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Feb 05, 2009
I think its great that we have this place to come to. So many , in different stages of this vicious tramadol cycle.

KC- since you asked, I am on day 78!  I went off exactly 1 week before emergee.
I want to be honest- I still have sleeping issues since going off. BUT, not nearly like the first week. I also still experience anxiety, BUT that is something I dealt with before tram. I also still have low energy levels, BUT like emergee said, it is probably due to pre-tramadol conditions. (I am anemic, and according to what my dr. said today, its pretty severe)
Man, I wish I could blame that one on tramadol too.
Anyway- MONDAY!! YEA! I will send you lots of positive thoughts and energy that day. You will be fine. You already have the mindset, and that is a big part of it. Post all the time. It will help, and we will all be here for you.

JK- like Michelle said, you wont regret the decision to "flush". You're so young, and I am proud of you for having the strength to do that. At the end, I was basically taking them to feel "normal", or not to feel bad. They stopped making me feel good long before I stopped. So, I totally understand just taking them to try and feel good.
And isnt it weird how we THINK we are being so much better while on them? Its so bizarre how this drug works. It actually makes you believe these things are true.
You asked, "Where did all the time go?"  OOOOHHHH, this is a question I ask all the time.
But- you are almost thru the worst of the really bad w/d. HANG IN THERE!

Dave- I LOVE your quote from the terminator movie!!!  (maybe I'll say that to my kids the next time they are running around at Walmart!)  "come with me if you want to live"
LOL!  just kidding, I know what it means. You'll get used to me trying to make stupid jokes.
But, that is one way I deal with this. Not everyone laughs with me, BUT, it feels so good to laugh again!! Even if I am the only one laughing.  This is so important to me, because I never laughed while I took tramadol.  Maybe fake trying-to-hard laughs but not REAL laughs.  Does that make sense?
Also, like Fred said- there are no saints here. And I am sending you positive thoughts RIGHT NOW.

Actually, I am sending ALL of you positive thoughts and prayers.
Big hugs to all my dear friends here,
love, suzi





689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Feb 05, 2009
I was at the ATM and an old man asked me to check his balance for him
So i pushed him and he fell over
So his balance wasnt so good after all



DONT PANIC IT WAS ONLY A JOKE


Thought I'd share.........LOL!




Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Feb 06, 2009
emergee, You crack me up, seriously.   You were talking about the guy who couldn't sleep when you said, "one guy, at christmas time,  couldn't sleep ,  i think it was his first night.  so he got up,  shovelled snow all night , felt so energized by that , he jumped in the car and drove across several states to visit relatives for xmas.   we never heard from him again."

You reminded me of a story I like to tell about my mom.   She is 87 years old now, 5'2", 102 lbs and fit as a fiddle.  Except that her eyesight isn't too good.  Thankfully, we convinced her to stop driving when she was 80 due to her poor eyesight.  When she turned 84, she started walking 3 miles every day .....................................................................................................AND now we don't know where the hell she is.

Sorry for my non-tram related attempt at levity.   Seriously, all is true about mom, except that she was walking long before age 84 and we really DO know where she is most of the time.  (She's probably at homenow watching ESPN. )

KC, You are so pumped and ready to get this done, I'll be AMAZED  if you can hold off until Monday before you start.  Got the supplies (check), got the time off (check, check), and you have the attitude (CHECK, CHECK CHECK).  Since you asked, my last day taking tram was 12/01/08.  Best thing I have ever done in a very long time.  

Four or five days of withdrawal is SO worth having the rest of your life being tram free.  It's a TINY small investiment really when you think about it.

I remember that first week for me very well.  

Journal Challenge:  Did you newcomers know that you can make your own personal/public journal entries?  I have observed that not too many here do this and I rarely do it myself any more.  But fairly early on in withdrawal, I decided I'd start keeping track of my  moods, discomforts, sleep patterns, victories, chuckles and foibles coming off this.  

I observed fairly early on in my early withdrawal that I had things to say that probably nobody else here really cared about or that I simply wanted to record to mark my OWN progress.  So i began posting journals in my own icon page journal thingy.  Once I began, I determined to keep journaling there for at least 14 days.  

Freds reasons for journaling:  (1) It occupies your time.  It keeps your mind busy and your fingers moving.  Distraction is a beautiful thing to waste.  (2) whether you do it here or on a piece of paper, it's helpful to keep track of one's own progress.  Sometimes days flow into dirty new days, and without a record, it's hard to realize that things are improving.  Track and see for yourself. :)  When I go back and read some of the things I wrote, I can't believe what I (sadly) wrote.  But you are creating a record, a reference for you to mark your own progress.  (3) In doing so, you provide a record for others who come behind you to review.  

Emily, you will have to tell us, but I'll bet when you began your journal, you never envisioned THIS did you?  

How:  Click on YOUR icon/picture/symbol.  There you'll find something like "add journal entry".  Feel free to add as many as you want.  I'm not sure if there is a way to keep your entires "private" or not, maybe someone else here knows.  But I figured that the rest of you were as sick as I was anyway, so I hardly cared if anyone, one day might click on my icon and read any of my journal entries.  

I regret not beginning them sooner.  It takes a while to feel one's way around this place.  But if you are new and think there is a 5% chance you may really want to take the plunge, start journaling now.  If not here, with pen and paper.  But you will never get a second chance to record your 1st day of success.  Especially in the age of electronic note taking on the computer machine and all...

Dave, not sure if you know this, but we have another professional musican here, KEV from the UK.  I believe he last posted at the end of January.  Drop him a note.  I bet he'd love to hear from you.

Michelle aka madtram,  wow, you made some very profound statements.  Like, "I just accepted that I must be getting dumber, nearly everything was acceptable, thanks to tram".   It is so true that we began to expect so little of ourselves in the stupor.  I hadn't thought of that until you mentioned it so simply, but that was so PROFOUND.  Tramadol dumbed us down and we were blowing sweet kisses it's way...thanking the tramadol as it kicked our butts down the street while we stood gazing out the window in a starry eyed stupidness.  The second thing I thought was so profound Michelle, was when you said, "the break through withdrawals starting kicking in so I had insomnia even while taking it.  THANK YOU!  

Those withdrawls kicked in for me too while I was taking this nasty drug.  Some one tell me we aren't alone in this?  By that point, your choices are either to take more and more of the drug to zone you out, or figure out a way to get off the tram-o-train.  

I remember  in my early withdrawl (maybe the 3rd or 4th day) I was reflecting on my first day of NOT taking this drugafter taking it for over six years. I declared in a post that the most important day was that first day.  And I will never forget what Emily said.  She said (paraphrasing here) that her "most important day", was the day she gazed into her pill drawer and realized that she didn't have to take those little white pills any more.  How profound is that?

KJ, sending out a big welcome from the rainy city of Seattle.  Wow, you flushed em huh?  Sounds serious!  For some ill advised reason, I kept a partially used bottle of the trams around for about a month after I stopped taking them,  Then Suzi here (Hi Suzi) suggested that I flush them.    I followed her advice and immediately flushed my supply.  Now I know that taking another tram is just a little further out of reach if i were ever to get the desire again.  Good move KJ.  

I have always been so impressed at the WISDOM of  young people who are able to recognize and deal with addiction at an early age.   When I was 18 years old, I thought I had the world by the tail and that my body was bullitproof.  Congrats to you KJ, for figuring this addiction thing out at an early age.  Here's hoping you have many many happy and free years ahead of you.  

Courage and Strength to you all.  

Fred

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Feb 06, 2009
Suzi, don't  take this the wrong way, but when do your nursing classes begin?   Bah Ha Ha!  Mama always told me I could say anything to any one, provided I have a smile on my face.  And I AM smiling now you nut you!  

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Feb 06, 2009
Fred-
Oh my gosh!  I forgot to tell you all that I am not going to school, but I took a job called 'EJM.' It stands for
'Emilys Journal Monitor'.The pay is great, and its a 24 hour position!


Just kidding!!!HAHAHA!! (laughing!!!)
But seriously, I start next Tuesday, because they postponed classes due to the winter storms we have had.

If you wouldnt have had a smile on your face, I might have cried. he-he

Really guys, I do apologize if I am deviating from tram -talk, and it bothers you. Please be honest if it does, and I'll go over to  the addiction social forum. (They always talk about stupid stuff)

I hope you all are doing well. Keep up the FIGHT!     We WILL win this war!

Love, suzi


738790 tn?1377724594
by KC67, Feb 06, 2009
Suzie & Fred,
I'm just happy to see that you are ABLE to laugh and joke post-tram.  It's something I have to look forward to!  

Only 3 more days of an intense work week and then Monday I'm joining the club.

KC

Avatar universal
by JK90, Feb 06, 2009
Whew, was a harsh night. Big big thanks to emergee for pointing me in the direction of a remedy for restless legs, picked it up and managed to have a decent night, well, 3 hours sleep but more than I had expected!

Thanks alot for the encouraging words roddy, means more than you can imagine =)

Following Michelles advice I sprung for the "flu" route at the doctors. Got a note from him and a week to recoup! Thanks for welcoming me fred, though I don't believe I have that much wisdom ;) It's only due to this site that I quit. It's an assassin drug, no-one knows anything about it in the long term and I would never have guessed that they were actually changing me. Thank god that I found this site when I did or I would probably be in the opiate haze.

Also thanks to you suzi =) It's nice to get other people to confirm what I'm saying to make sure I'm not going mad! >:o So many people to thank, but seriously, I read through each of your replies and they keep me going and make me stronger than I ever could be alone, and I thank you for that.

As for the withdrawal effects, day 3 and I am alot better than yesterday already, went to town and popped into the local pharmacy for all the herbal remadies and vitamins etc stated to help with the withdrawal.

Thanks everyone,
JK

750886 tn?1235640344
by priceiswright, Feb 06, 2009
Day ten for me. Yesterday was hard. Today is hard. Horrible fog all day. I had huge tram cravings. I couldn't really think or move. Not much pain. Just extreme fog. Couldn't think clearly. Hoping the fog will go away......

Avatar universal
by kes68, Feb 06, 2009
I don't know if I love or hate this post!?  I guess it depends on what mood I am in when I am reading it.

It is great to see the humour, and hear how life is changing, improving for those who have gotten clean.  It gives me hope and motivation - but also frustrates the hell out of me.   I guess it just seems so far from where I am right now.
I am struggling to keep a business a float and 8 full time staff working.  I feel miserable when I realize that if I have to lay someone off it will be a result of my drug use.  My lack of energy and enthusiasm for the business, poor customer relations - I am not making the calls, doing the follow up, nor am I marketing or growing the business.  
I know I am in a mess - but cannot afford to be out of commission for a week.  My partner is not working, I have spent a great deal of money that my partner is unaware of, and the business is not making the money it used to.
I feel the necessity to fix it now - but the damn tram fog!  I just don't care most of the time.  I have moments of great clarity - but they are few and far between.
I am going to taper to try and get down to a reasonable level to c/t from - but reading your posts makes me hate my life so much more - hate the whole damn mess I have allowed myself to get into.  I want it done now!  And that just isn't going to happen.          

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Feb 06, 2009
Kes-
I have been where you are. Yes, life improves, but it doesnt happen overnight. When I was still taking tramadol, I couldnt comprehend how I would do ANYTHING. My whole life revolved around the pills. From the time I opened my eyes in the morning, until I fell asleep at night, my time was consumed by tramadol. I had many days where I cancelled appointments or missed my kids school plays due to 'waiting for the fed ex truck'. Couldnt leave until those pills were in my hands. I also had my own business, which I have now officially let go. ( I am moving the rest of my supplies and equipment out today)  Lost a lot of money over the past 5 years. Wasted a lot as well. I  lost a lot of customers because I neglected my responsibilities.  I also neglected my family..........almost lost my husband, who was going to take my children with him.
I apologize if trying to lighten up occasionally makes you feel worse. I , nor anyone here,wants to make anyone feel bad. This drug has broken my heart numerous times. And my heart breaks for anyone who has had to deal with this.
I hated my life when I was on tramadol.
And I am still picking up the pieces EVERYDAY. I am faced with all the awful, stupid, dishonest, and embarrassing things I did while I was taking it.
I was losing my life because of tramadol, and I HAD to make a decision. So, I did. I wouldnt be here today if I had lost my family.

PLEASE, when you are reading these posts, try to realize we all have been where you are.
I wish you well from the bottom of my heart. If you ever need to talk, please private message me.
This isnt easy for anyone. You have a lot on your plate right now.

sincerely, suzi






544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Feb 06, 2009
Hi to all newbies! Hello Tramadol Warriors!

Fred you asked me if I envisioned this happening when I started a journal. This meaning people coming together to help each other thru Tramadol withdrawal?

I would say, that the reason I started to journal was so that other people who were out there and addicted/dependant on Tramadol might have a sense of comfort that they could get off.  Consider the source. I have been on some kinda drug since that accident in 2000.  This means that I have officially failed Pills 101 and 201 and all the advanced classes as well.  

I knew there were many many people on Tramadol. I did not have a clue that it was the culprit who stole my personality and made me into a mess of a girl. So, imagine my HORROR when I started to intensely research this "Perfectly safe NON Addictive Tramadol."

I also could NOT find more than a few entries of people talking about Tramadol withdrawal on the interweb tubes and pipes on the Computer Machine. :D ((Still laughing about that one Fred!))  But OMG the amount of sites devoted to other pills was astounding.

And I'll be honest, the reason I don't go into the chat section of this site, and stay here in my journal is that I got attacked in early withdrawal by a few long-timers on this site. These were people who wanted to accuse me of exaggerating the withdrawal of Tramadol. I even got an abusive message from one member telling me that I said that I was having a worse time than a Methadone Addict. Which; I never said. I have no experience with that.

But in a group of addicts there can be a competition for 'who has it worst.' Which is sick and weird and it's part of the Culture of AA.

So for my own protection in early withdrawal I stayed in my Journal. Here I can delete attacks, report them and so on. I also can sort of protect other people from having the same experience. I mean; who needs to be attacked for writing about coming off Tramadol in Day 10? It's ludicrous. The Powers that Be at Med-Help have always been responsive and kind. So; to their credit!

I also don't need anyone telling me what a great drug Tramadol is. Because it is not a great drug. It ruined YEARS of my life. It stole from me. Time is GONE. And yes, I'm ANGRY about that. The anger actually helped me get thru withdrawal.

I have zero cravings for Tramadol. BUT I remember having them. Thing is; once you are at Tolerance on any drug; you can't ever go back to the point where "it works" ever again! It simply has turned on you and will now give you no relief. It will only give you side effects.


I've never told you HOW I got put on Tramadol. It was after my Medical Doc gave me huge amounts of opiates. I called in for a refill (It wasn't an early refill ... I used alot less than I should have to be truthful) ... and suddenly, she called me a drug addict. *sigh*

Now. I am MANY Things. (Obviously not a Saint) ... But Drug Addict? I was furious. Fire shooting out of my eyes furious. As nice as I am I also have the other side, which is ummm ... capable of massive self defense and even attack. So I told this Doctor who had paid zero attention to my pain and my situation that she better have some hard evidence to support this claim because I was going to sue her if she wrote anything like that anywhere in my medical charts. You see, MD's can really ruin a patient by drugging them, and then accusing them of being a drug addict. It's what they do. They put people into Cold Turkey Withdrawal ALL the time. Is it any wonder that people are ordering pills online?

I never would recommend that anyone "confess" to an MD that they are an addict because it can hurt you FOREVER. As in not able to get Health Insurance hurt you ... it's very bad.

At the time I knew a huge number of people who were in AA. (I'm a food addict ... so technically I am an addict, it just isn't drugs ... it's cake .. ) So I had this conversation with a very prominent Psychiatrist who was in this .. private AA group. He told me about Tramadol.

So needless to say, the MD was pleased as punch to put me on Tramadol instead of the real Opiates.

And she was pleased as punch to put me on Klonopin (Benzo) when the Tramadol gave me panic attacks. It's all SO WRONG! I'm now tapering off Klonopin. I have been on up to 6 mg of Klonopin at various times. I'm on 1 mg and in negotiations to get some lower dose pills. If he won't help me; I'll find someone that will. Doctor Groovy thinks I have been staying on 2 mg because "he thought I wasn't ready." I swear I have the worst luck with Doctors.

Hi PriceisWright; it will get better. It's just bad right now. It won't always be bad. By Day 10 you get pretty tired. (((hugs))) I'm so pleased you are here. Keep posting :D My Fog would lift really suddenly and with no warning. No reason it seemed. It followed no pattern. And I'm actually quite good at finding patterns ... Tramadol is Random. That is its pattern of withdrawal.

JK90! Yay! Day 3! And you got to a store for herbs! Good job! Restless legs are terrible.  You write, "It's an assassin drug, no-one knows anything about it in the long term and I would never have guessed that they were actually changing me."

EXACTLY! It IS an assassin drug! Exactly! SO glad you got "the flu" and a note ... excellent! Well done!

KC67 you can do this! We're all behind you!

Suzi you are cracking me up! But thank all of you who have sent me notes when something crazy is happening in here. I really appreciate that! No need to go anywhere ...

Fred writes, "I remember  in my early withdrawal (maybe the 3rd or 4th day) I was reflecting on my first day of NOT taking this drug after taking it for over six years. I declared in a post that the most important day was that first day.  And I will never forget what Emily said.  She said (paraphrasing here) that her "most important day", was the day she gazed into her pill drawer and realized that she didn't have to take those little white pills any more.  How profound is that?"

Dude. I was DONE. D-O-N-E. Finished.

You're so nice Fred. It was funny, when you asked that ... You asked about TramaMasters ... (I paraphrase) .. I had to think about it VERY carefully. It really was the day that I was done. Done. Finished. Thru with all of it. People have no clue how drugs will take them over. It is so subtle.

With me, I can tell you 70-90% of the pain I was having was coming DRUGS. Specifically it was coming from Tramadol. Rat Poison. Yeah. I was done. I say a few times in my earliest writing that I would rather walk into a grocery store, grab a plastic spoon and sit on the floor eating RAT POISON than ever ever take another Tramadol.

Dave my DH is a musician. :D Yes, I am familiar with everything you have seen. I have some dead friends also. And some in jail.

Emergee you write, " but you must know that there have been others who get off and are fine very quickly.   one guy, at christmas time,  couldn't sleep ,  i think it was his first night.  so he got up,  shovelled snow all night , felt so energized by that , he jumped in the car and drove across several states to visit relatives for xmas.   we never heard from him again."

I remember him. I remember being SO HAPPY to hear his story. He had alot to say and I think really helped all of us. Everyone who says anything here helps us! I get many PM's from people who say"no one understands!"

It's true. No one but someone who has been on Tramadol and then tries to quit can understand the depth of the struggle.It's a nasty nasty drug.

Love and healing to everyone ... I know I missed some people! (((Hugs)))
Emily


544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Feb 06, 2009
Kes, my post appeared after yours, but somehow I missed your last post.

Let's all take a long breath. Breathing is so excellent for grounding. In to the count of 5, out to the count of 10. It'll slow your central nervous system down ...

The thing that helped me a great deal was staying in the moment. I don't go forward, and I don't go backwards when I am in withdrawal. I don't do "One Day at a Time" because one day is just way too long then.

The War like Anger required also has to be balanced with extreme gentleness towards yourself. The thing that never helped me was beating myself up. I was very prone to beating myself up while I was on Tramadol and while withdrawing. Be as kind as possible to yourself.

have no doubt that you are doing the very best you can. No one can do more.

Recently, I have been reminded of acute withdrawal because of the Benzo-Klonopin taper. Tapering off a Benzo is different physically than Tramadol. But alot of the same mentality I learned from Tramadol I have needed to taper. I had to remind myself that my thoughts right now, do not completely belong to me.

When panic, anxiety and brain pain hits, a huge wave of withdrawal goes thru me, I do not take any thoughts seriously. Because I know I was drugged and the drug is doing the talking. I also don't make life changing decisions. I just stay in the moment. I do what  can for myself.

Deep breath. It will be over. One thing  did was make a list of everything I could do to help myself. A full list of supplies, suggestions and things that had worked for me. During a phase of panic and fog, I couldn't remember what I was supposed to do.

So that helped me a great deal.

(((Kes)))

One other thing. The priority in my mind was life or death. Tramadol really doesn't play around. By the time most people realize the drug has turned on them; they are in for a huge battle for their life.

You have our unwavering support!

Love and healing,
Emily

Avatar universal
by frankm12, Feb 06, 2009
My goodness, I had no idea that there are so many people going through what I am about to go through, the Tramadol withdrawals. I will tell you a little about myself. I am a 40-yr.old male, married with 1 kid and 2 dogs, and a serious addict. I first got a hold of some tramadol while cleaning out my Mothers' house last year after she passed away from Lou Gehrigs' disease. I found two bottles of Tramadols, which I heard my mother say she would not take because they made her 'dizzy'. So I , who have some back-pain issues from a previous injury, decided to try a few Tramadols. Well, 40 minutes later and I felt great! No pain and a seeming burst of energy, and thought to myself this is a wonderful drug. Well, this went on for about 3-4 weeks, when I was taking 200mg orally 3-4 times a day, and then ran out of pills. Well, the first day I remember that it felt like the Earth now had the gravitational pull of Jupiter, as I felt so extremely lethargic and was yawning non-stop. I also noticed that when thinking of my mothers' passing, I became much more emotional and sad than I had previously done. I shrugged it off, and just thought to myself that I couldn't wait to get home and get some rest and sleep,ha ha. As all of you know, there would be no sleep at all that night, just thrashing around tossing and turning, until I finally got up and went to the living room and laid on the couch so that my wife could sleep. Well, the next day I felt like I had a bad flu, and became ever so depressed(watching 'Click' made me so depressed!!!). This lasted for about 3-4 days, and then I got over it. I told myself I would never take this stuff again. Well, about a month later, surfing around on the Internet, I found an online 'pharmacy' and couldn't resist the temptation to order some to see if it was that easy. It was a pharmacy from overseas, so I heard nothing for about three weeks, until one day the package arrived. I remember taking one of the pills out and laying it on the table, and thinking to myself that I should just flush them down the toilet. Well, a little voice in my head told me that I spent over $100 on them, so I shouldn't waste them. Unfortunately, I ingested it, and now 10 months later I am still on these little hell pills. A s a poster earlier stated, it(Tramadol) just keeps talking to you, telling you how much better you will feel. Well, I have had enough!! No longer do they make me feel any better, they just make me feel icky and unfocused, and I know that I HAVE to stop them or I will ruin the rest of my life. I am ready to go through the Hell that I know I will face from the withdrawals, last time I withdrew from 3-4 weeks use at 200mg a dose qid(4 times day), now I've been on 10 months and doing 300mg qid. It's funny, my tolerance built up quickly to the 300mg point, but after that(1 month into use again) there was no increase in tolerance. Anyhow, I know it will be hell starting tomorrow when I wake up and not take any, but I am ready. Fortunately(in a way) I have been laid off from my job, so I will get to do the detox at home. I wonder if I should give the pills I have left to my wife to hold, so I don't become weak and take them. She knows I have been taking them, but doesn't know how many, and doesn't know the extent of my addiction or what I am about to go through. I suppose I will sit her down tonight, give her the pills, and tell her what I am doing. I have a question that some of you could possibly answer,- I have some prescribed Flexiril remaining, would they be  good to fight the withdrawal agony? Thanks, and I thank all of you brave souls who have come on here and let the world know how you have fought your demons. It is assuring to see that I am not alone in this fight, and will take solace in this board while I am withdrawing. I remember last time it took 4 days, so it is also re-assuring that the total agony will only last 5 days max. I can do that to pay for 300 days of abusing this ****. I am so pissed off at myself for having taken that one pill 10 months ago,..- if I just would've flushed them! Then again, all happens for a reason, I'm ready to fight the devil.

Avatar universal
by emergee, Feb 06, 2009
frankm12,  
   flexeril should help you sleep.  good luck.  you know what to do.  write in and complain if you want.

750886 tn?1235640344
by priceiswright, Feb 07, 2009
Ugh. Tramadol is ugly. I was feeling much better earlier this week but as described by most, I have a case of the tramadol randomness withdrawls. Physical pain is low to non-existent, stomach issues. ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, RESTLESTNESS is STRONG. Minutes feel like days. NOTHING is entertaining. I want to get out of the house but the fog is huge. Went to the store today and felt like everyone was staring at me, very uncomfortable, dizzy brain. Didn't want to talk to anyone or look at anyone. Wanted to hide.........kept singing Counting Crows Round Here....Step out the front door like a ghost into the fog......

I was thinking today that this was a fight I had to stick with. How could I expect to be better in 10 days when I had been taking the drug for 300+ days??? I know the fog will lift soon but its impossible for me to concentrate. I would say the worst is the restlessness - the inability to get anything complete.

The GOOD thing. GREAT thing. I am still laughing like I haven't laughed since I began using. Even through the feelings of depression, I am smiling. I am loving my fiance. I am laughing at movies, talk shows, life. I am FEELING. Who knew I could FEEL again?

Keep up the fight friends. We have seen those who got through it. We must remind ourselves why we started this fight to begin with.

11 days down.......

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Feb 07, 2009
Emily, it was so GREAT to read your posts today.  When I finish up here, I intend to read your story again and again - like I did those first days.  It's nice to understand the history.  Thanks for sharing.

There is such power in this place - in large part due to the variety of people posting - all at different stages in our battle with this demon drug.  Reading all of your posts tonight might keep me tram  free another moment.  Thanks you guys.

Frankm, OMG, I can see myself doing EXACTLY what you did, picking up the pills again after swearing them off.  But it sounds like you have decided to take on the battle as you did once before.  Someone reading what I wrote a paragraph above, might think I am blowing smoke (up your ears) when I said that YOUR posts keep me tram free today.  But here's the thing...it's really true.  

When I hear someone like you, Frankm - describe how easy it is to pick this up again...and then I hear somone else telling their story about the dog days of early withdrawal, it just reminds me that there but by the grace of god go I (again).

If I'm not mistaken,AA has a saying, "always remember your last drunk because it will keep you sober".  (something like that I think).   Well, I NEVER want to forget how my life was on the tram-o-train.  I never want to forget how awful those first days of withdrawal were.  I never want to forget ANY of that TRAMOLIFE that I suffered through while on this devil pill.

And guess what?  As long as I keep hanging out with my friends here and hearing your stories, I like to think that I REALLY REALLY just might have a chance of never taking this pooh pill ever again.  So when I say something that sounds trite like, "reading all of your posts tonight might keep me tram  free another moment"...I mean every word of it.

I'm SERIOUS AS A HEART ATTACK!  

Frankm, you said, "I wonder if I should give the pills I have left to my wife to hold, so I don't become weak and take them. She knows I have been taking them, but doesn't know how many, and doesn't know the extent of my addiction or what I am about to go through. I suppose I will sit her down tonight, give her the pills, and tell her what I am doing."  

I'm not in any position to tell you what to do Frankm.  But I'll tell you what I would do.  I wouldn't give them to my wife, I'D WALK OVER TO THE TOILET RIGHT NOW AND FLUSH THEM NOW.  I kept some around myself when I decided to STOP.  Not sure what I was thinking.  A back up plan in case I felt I needed to bail?  A trophy of what I overcame?  No, I won't tell you what I think YOU should do with those pills, but if I ever do this again, I'm flushing those pills pronto bean quick.  I AM JUST TOO WEAK TO HAVE A TEMPTATION LIKE THAT AROUND... But that's jut me.

I am also a firm believer in bringing our spouses/significant others into the world we call tramadol.  My wife totally knew everything about my use of the drug.  She even was kind enough to drop by the pharmacy many times to pick up my RX after work.  It was prescribed by the family doc after all.  

When I decided I had enough, she supported me.  Can't imagine trying to keep it a secret actually.  But that's just me.  But as kind and understanding as she tried to be during early withdrawal for me, she had no friggin idea what sort of hell I was going through.  She had witnessed my periodic partial withdrawal symptoms at the dwindling end of each RX cycle for years - and she still had no idea.

She really cared what I was going through.  She'd ask, "how are you doing NOW?"  Like 6 p.m. NOW would be a great deal better than 3 p.m. NOW.  I wanted to blurt out..."the truth?  you can't handle the truth!"  But I simply resorted to saying..."fine".  "I'm fine sweetheart".  And by the 3nd or 4thd day she quit asking and I guess she thought it should be all better.  The point is that while I DO think it is helpful to confide in a loved one, nobody can fully appreciate withdrawal from this drug unless they actually have gone through it themselves.

Some weeks out from the start, I was still experiencing sleep difficulties occassionally. When I told my wife that I was still experiencing withdrawal symptoms, I think she thought I was mad.  But I am a firm believer that a drug that screws with our brain receptors to zone us out like this drug does, takes some time to work it's way out of our brains entirely.  

And if a drug is THAT powerful, Yikes.  (Emily, join in here) IT REALLY CANNOT HAVE ME.

After over 60 days now, I am actually feeling pretty darned well and sleeping well too most nights.  Emily, I am using the breathing in for 5 seconds and exhaling for 10 seconds as soon as I lay my head on my pillow at night.  I focus on deep breathing and BINGO, I am dropping off to sleep most nights like a baby.  I FANCY that this deep breathing as I lay down mimicks the deep breathing that we do as we sleep. I fancy that I am sort of INTRODUCINGA my body to the notion of deep sleep, until it can ttake over my manual deep breathing as I drift off.  Crazy idea I know, but it's working.

To those newcomers:

There IS hope for better days,

For those who are pacing the floor tonight.

Picture yourself sleeping like a baby again.

Those blurry eyes barely able to read this type tonight.

Will soon clear just like before.

The way that you were before the TRAM came in.

Before it blew seet soft kisses to you and drew you in to it's confidence.

And s l o w l y sucked the life out of you.

And told you that it was YOUR friend.

The secret friend you couldn't be without.

And quietly possessed you while you slept.  

In a fog softly rolling in.

And kept you prisioner  - with no way out.

By saying you were too weak to say jump.

While it's hooks sunk deeper and deeper with each pill consumed.

LIES LIES LIES

But this war will not last forever.

You'll not wear out the floor.

You will sleep again.

You'll not ache forever.

The fog WILL lift one day.

Be gentle and strong.

You are worth the effort.

I believe in you.

Courage Strength and Love to you all.

Fred



689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Feb 07, 2009
Fred-
Your post brought tears to my eyes. It touched a part of me that had been hidden. I am 78 days off  T, and I still have very emotional breakthroughs. But, it feels good to cry sometimes. Not all the time, but sometimes.
Thank you for your post. It is really keeping me tram-free today.  I know most of you dont have cravings for the pills, but I sometimes do. EVEN after all the hel l it has put me thru. WHY?? That is insane. I REMEMBER all the yucky **** I went thru while on it and the w/d was horrible , so why on earth would I even think about taking it again??????????????
But I know I wont today, after reading your words Fred.  Thank you.

Price-
I sooooooo remember going out in public at your stage, and feeling very paranoid. I hated going out in public. I had to learn all over again how to talk to people. How to socialize without tramadol doing the talking for me. You will get better, but it is different for all of us. Some people get over the mental stuff first, while others recover physically first.
YOU said such a profound thing:
" I was thinking today that this was a fight I had to stick with. How could I expect to be better in 10 days when I had been taking the drug for 300+ days???"
Oh yea, that is an eye opener. And a brain opener. (I know)
You have come SO FAR. I am proud of you. Truly . That is an accomplishment. 10 days, definately.

That being said:
I traveled for a company, and did presentations, as well as classes for them. Of course, I was on major tramadol at this time, and took more before speaking in front of large groups. Well, I am leaving for North Carolina tomorrow to do my first class since going off the demon drug.  
Am I scared?.........................You bet.    
Will I be fine?................ .......Yes.
Will I have a panic attack?.......I hope not.
Its weird, because I KNOW I will be fine. Its just weird, thats all. I cant explain it any further than that.

I know I'll be tram-free today. (once again, stealing Freds words)

Love, suzi





689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Feb 07, 2009
Price,
II wanted to comment on a few more things in your post. Yes, I am scatterbrained.
You mentioned stomach issues.  What kind???
I had MAJOR stomach issues. As in, I  that was my worst physical w/d symptom. I was bloated,not just bloated, BUT BIG TIME bloated. As in I looked 6 months pregnant at all times. ( sorry guys, I know its yucky to talk about).
But, it is reality, and I think we need to discuss the yucky embarrassing stuff as well. This has JUST NOW started to subside with me. I also gained 15 pounds after going off. Now, that is not a normal side effect for most going thru w/d.
But, tramadol isnt normal, so it affects us all different as we all know.

Oh, and the LAUGHING! Thank you for bringing this up!      I LOVE to laugh, and it is a wonderful feeling, even in the midst of horrible feelings and symptoms, to be able to chuckle. Even if it is for a split second.
That is one thing I NEVER did on tramadol. I remember my poor kids trying to make me laugh, and I just couldnt.
And then, one day, I laughed OUT LOUD, and my whole family just started at me.
Needless to say, I started crying immediately.
I can still see my babies faces, and their looks of surprise and awe.

THAT is why I love to hear about others who can laugh again.  
Thanks price for reminding me of that.




Avatar universal
by emergee, Feb 07, 2009
suzi,  
   you sound so great.  it is amazing how much things have changed for you.  i am really glad you told us what your situation was at home before you quit,  it makes it that much more poignant and your triumph that much greater.  i am really happy for you.


price,
    you actually seem to be ahead of schedule.   laughing is pretty advanced for 10 days.  it seems i didn't start laughing until last week and i have 2 months behind me.   but that  feeling you get in public is a wierd symptom , isn't it?,    i don't recommend going out unless it's night .  or no one else is out.    i thought it was like walking around with my skin peeled off.

Avatar universal
by JK90, Feb 07, 2009
Suzi, you say you gained weight through withdrawal. I have also noticed that off of tramadol not only am I alot more hungry, but things seem to taste alot better.

When I was taking them, I had a strange sort of full-up sensation that supressed my appetite, also, another thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, maybe it's just a personal thing. But when I was on tramadol, I got terrible ITCHY dry-skin that was diagnosed as eczema, it was on my shoulders and neck etc.

4 days off tramadol, it's gone, skin is smooth, no more itching.

Strange findings!

Oh and one more thing if people are finding it hard to sleep, not sure if this will help all of you but I bought some valerian root from my local pharmacy, after being recommended. I didn't feel drowzy after taking it, but it knocked me out and I got a good 8 hours out of it!

Avatar universal
by frankm12, Feb 07, 2009
Hello to all, it is now -T +15hrs. . Meaning of course it has been 15 hours since my last 300mg ingestion. I have been awake for an hour now, and usually by now the Tramadol is kicking in and I would feel 'fine'. But we all know what 'fine' means, which is just giving another 6-8 hours of our lives away to a substance that makes us feel worse and worse, and makes us take more and more while we are slipping further and further away from our loved ones. I am beginning to have my bouts of "machine-gun sneezing". Ohh, have I forgotten about that part,lol!! I am also feeling the emotional rolller-coaster being dragged to the top, getting ready to be dropped to start the ride!! Bring it on!!! I gave the Tramadol to my wife(she was pretty upset about my addiction, which I understand) and she got rid of them for me, so no giving in to temptation. I am also feeling a bit of the 'cold sweats' around my mid-section, though that could also be from being on the Atkins Low-Carb diet (I also fight a battle of the bulge).
Thank all of you again for sharing what you have, it truly makes me feel like I am not alone, and that there are many people just like me all around the world that are about to go through the same fight. (I know that the worst starts after -T +24 hrs.) I will check in again later. Fred, thanks for your insight and input. The last time I went through this I didn't have the Flexiril to help me sleep, but I did take sleeping pills that of course didn't help. Of course last time, I just ran out of pills and had no idea what I was in for, this time I had about 100 50mg pills left and said "To hell with these pieces of Demon ****!!". Will it make a difference? Maybe mentally, but I know I'm in for a ride physically,- well, also a mental ride. Just have to make sure I don't watch the movie "Click", LOL. Again, thank you all, you are more of a blessing than you will ever know.

Avatar universal
by kes68, Feb 07, 2009
I agree with the appitite thing - food just doesn't apeal to me, but I guess that makes sense - nothing really excites me.
You guys are great with us newcomers - I appriciate the time you take to address the individual posts - and I love how honest everyone seems to be with some of the more personal side effects.

I am trying to spread out my use - start later in the day - spread out the time in between.  But the withdrawals start pretty quick - nothing serious - but I sweat, and am incredibly irritable and anxious, and more of a fog than even the tram forg.
So I know for now I have to do it slowly (I know I keep repeating it - I guess I feel like a bit of a loser for not quiting c/t)
On monday I am going to cut back 50 mg a day - and see how that goes for a week.
I think it was Fred who was mentioning including our significant others.  I've heard it before the "we are only as sick as our secrets"  and I know this drug has strained my relationship - which is not really fair that my partner has no idea why we are going through such a rough patch.  But I am just not ready to share this - I am embarassed - I hope as I get stronger in my resolve, and go a bit easier on myself - I can start to open up.

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by HOPEreturns, Feb 07, 2009
Frank:

Keep up the good work!  You definitly are in good company here.  As you know there are so many wonderful individuals in here that have and are going through the exact same thing you are.  Not sure if you are familiar with Thomas recipe.  It is wonderful!  I actually have started the supplements while I am weening.  However, I am not discouraging you from going cold turkey.  Everyone has their own way of getting off of this RAT POOH (phrase patented by FRED)!  You get off of this stuff the way that is best for you!

Lots of luck to you in your battle.  I like to congratulate the "newcomers" on finding this site!  
IT IS TRULY A BLESSING TO HAVE FOUND THESE PEOPLE IN HERE!

Hugs
Hope

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by daveat50, Feb 07, 2009
Folks, Suzie, Frank, etc...

Two full days. Last 1/2 dose was actually Thursday at noon. Not doing so bad today. Last night I just laid down and stayed away from my wife and I am sure she appreciated it. Today I got up early and took care of my brother (has MS and loves me) and his cat (loves me only because I change the litterbox). I'm hurting today and I knew that was coming. I'm not having the craving though. ?? I believe I am just as resolute about this as I was about cigarettes and that is helping me. With cigarettes it was time for them to go and thanks for all the fish (weird reference).

I didn't feel I misrepresented myself but I probably need to let you know - I have a musical nature but I am no longer a professional musician. I listened to my father and kept my day job. I earn more money driving a desk and a computer, with better health benefits. At my age that is more important.

However, my nature is if someone called me with just the right amount of money -  I would be oh-so-gone. A guitar has never lied to me, never cheated on me, and never said no when I felt like playing. Music is my #1 after the important stuff is handled. That is my family (#1!1), housing, food, car, health, and private time in the bathroom.

You guys are pretty cool. I understand after reading this, that everyone's experience with this stuff and withdrawal is different. No matter who you are this is a pain in the a$$ but bottom line is, after reading all this, we all got ourselves to this point. We must get past this point and proceed onward.

Are doctors slightly hypocritical when it comes to their oath? Some probably are. I don't think my doc intentionally loaded me with something that would be hard to come off of, he was helping me with pain management.

At any point I could have NOT called the pharmacy to go get that refill. That was my finger dialing - not the doctor's finger, not my lovely wife's, not my kids - those were my fingers. Those were my fingers pulling the pill out of the bottle again..and again...Those were my fingers anxiously counting them to see how many were left in the bottle. Mentally calculating at what point would be the best time to call for a refill so it didn't seem too...you know...fast.

And when I go to the doctor for my next physical and alien space probing, he is going to ask me how the tramadol is doing. I am going to be pretty honest with him so that he knows there is a problem. I'm not going to mention the anxious moments but I will tell him that when I decided enough was enough - it almost wasn't. I will also recommend he rethink this drug as a long-term pain management solution.

It can be a short term solution and it definitely got me through a very bad pain time early on. As a long term solution he may as well have prescribed - as it so very well put- rat poison.

In my corner of the world I will let him know because he needs to know. He needs to know.

Please do the same if you can.

Avatar universal
by frankm12, Feb 07, 2009
-T +19 hrs. Not any worse yet, though starting to laugh ay myself for how dumb I have been. Thanks for all the kudos, but my problem was brought on by self-medication. I can't tell you how much it makes me laugh in a sick, twisted tramadol way reading about the others on here and their "counting pills" experiences. I can't tell you how many times I did it, mainly just figuring out if I had enough pills left while I 'clicked' the 'order now' button on the screen and waited for the glorious FedEx truck to pull up to my curb and deliver me from my self-induced misery. What a miserable way to live, to have to plan every move a week in advance in order not to "run out" of the pills, and being so numb from them. Someone here mentioned how good it felt to laugh again, and it made me think of how I had recently realized this as well, that I rarely ever truly laughed from the center of my soul anymore. Man, did I miss that! It even feels great to be sitting here, literally laughing at my self, and sneezing away!! Oh good lord above, that is something else I haven't had the benefit of doing in a long time,-sneezing!! Amazing how the Tramadol robs one beginning with the little things in life, and then moves on to the bigger things. Boy I am glad I saw the light(let's see if I'm still singing the same tune 24 hrs. from now,huh?) and am stopping this madness. I'll check in later. God bless you all.

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by daveat50, Feb 07, 2009
frankm12 - keep going

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by suzipen, Feb 07, 2009
Emergee,
Boy I have missed talking to you. I am glad you think I sound great. I wish I FELT so great. Today I am a big blubbering mess. Crying at everything. I am getting used to it now.
You said it felt like you were walking around with your skin peeled off at one point. Yea, I remember that.

Kes,
There are NO losers here! There is no right or wrong way to do this. Its kind of like when women give birth. Some women feel that they are more of a 'woman' if they give birth naturally. That a cesearean (I know i butchered that word) section is weaker. WHATEVER! The end result is a beautiful baby. It does not matter HOW it came to be,but THAT it came to be.
Does that make sense?
My w/d's started very quickly as well. I felt bad if I went 6 hours without it in my system. So, you need to do what YOU need to do to get by. As long as your cutting down, what else matters? Certainly not the opinion of others.
And you will find that no body judges in Emilys journal. If anyone gets judgemental in here, Emily will take care of them.
I remember Fred saying something about this not being a race. I cant remember exactly what he said, but it made a lot of sense. It isnt a race or competition. Its your life. Simple as that. (well, I know it doesnt feel simple)
You will get stronger, and when you feel it is right, you will tell your partner. Remember, it is not a race.

JK,
Yes, I itched too. Not so much dry skin, just itchy. That disappeared pretty fast when I went off. It's weird how many things tramadol changes. And I think most of the reason I have gained weight is because I have craved sugar, and MORE sugar since stopping. I could eat junk all day. Thats been a major struggle.

Frank,
In my opinion, it will make a huge difference in your w/d. That is, the fact that you had 100 pills left , and still want to stop. Attitude is a BIG part of this. Of course there are things we cant control, but the mind is a powerful thing. Even with the physical part. I think you are already doing great. At 20 hours -T, I was not doing so good.

HI HOPE!!! How are you ???? Where ya been?? I hope all is well with you.

Dave,
Congrats on 2 days! Thats a big deal! :)
I also dont think my dr. intentionally gave me tramadol to harm me, but he should have known more about it.

O-k here goes,
I am a firm believer that my "problem" with tramadol is ultimately my fault. However, while I dont blame the dr. for my addiction, I DO blame him for not being informed on a drug that he so easily gives out. ..........I agree with Dave;  no one else refilled my script. I did. But I do think dr.s in general should make it a priority to educate themselves on medications. Instead, they just prescribe whatever the drug reps bring in.(They get an awful lot of FREE lunches from them, as well as trips, money etc)
I also see the other side of this, and believe that we must educate ourselves on what we put in our own bodies.
I think the reason I get so upset about the lack of knowledge, is because there is a whole generation of people that have been brainwashed into believing EVERYTHING a dr. tells them. My mother is one of those people, and I see it daily with many others her age. They are on 10-20 different meds, and nobody questions this. My mom is currently in a nursing home for physical therapy, and I have met numerous residents on tramadol. Many are also on 2 different antidepressants at the same time. Now that is not safe. And these poor souls have no idea. The doctors have no idea either because most of them dont even know that tramadol contains an antidepressant.
I have also talked with my dr. about the side effects of tram, and the horrible w/d. Now, I really like my dr. He is a nice guy, who takes the time to talk with me. BUT, when it comes to tram, he is clueless. He told me that whatever I was experiencing , it couldnt possibly be from w/d. Because" tramadol is NOT addicting or harmful in anyway."

O-k, I'll shut up about it now. We all know this stuff. I just had to vent, because its so frustrating when I visit my mom, and I see it happening over and over again.

Blessings to you all,
suzi













Avatar universal
by emergee, Feb 07, 2009
here, here, suzi.  i could not agree more.  it makes me angry and frustrated with people .  i even hate it when people say,  "check with your doctor".    doctor's imho do NOT know about health.  they don't study health, they don't study how the body functions as a whole.  they study parts,  they study disease.   this is a good thing that they do that,  i appreciate it.  and when i had a kidney infection i ran to the emergency room and without i would have died.   my surgeon know everything about diseased kidneys and i loved him.  he did not know anything about how to get me healthy again, nor was he particularly interested after he finished his job of cutting my kidney.
thank you for saying what you did.  whew.   that was a great rant.  

now i want to rant at you,  suzi ,  for eating sugar.   PLEASE don't eat sugar.  it is so bad for you it is poison, especially after what we just went through.  (  this is not for those who are ct-ing now,  do whatever you need to do to get through)  craving it so intensely is actually a sign of a problem .   there are substitutes.  
i know this is very bossy and controlling but i hope you forgive me.  i think you will.  i feel like you are my friend and you know how i get.  isn't that funny that i feel that way?
but really,  tram ***** up your gut.  your gut is where we make all sorts of hormones and enzymes etc that cascade throughout the body.  sugar just feeds the disorder in the gut.  

where are you madtram?


frank,  you are doing amazingly well.  really.  i was in much worse shape.  ( this is a race to see who has the worse deal)  ( queen for a day contest)  

Avatar universal
by frankm12, Feb 07, 2009
Hi all, -T +25 hrs. I'm feeling the waves a bit more now, waves of sweat and dizziness, and also having that good 'ole "restless legs syndrome" , which , by the way, is a direct result from the Tramadol withdrawals. I wonder sometimes if it was a Doctor or a Pharmaceutical Drug Company that actually invented that "medical condition". Hmm. Let's think about this: One more "Medical Condition" equals what, Ten+ "medications that can be sold for that "condition"? I wonder how much of a $DOLLAR$ figure the Pharmaceutical Companies reckoned they would (will) generate with each additional "medical condition" that is "discovered"?Hmmm. Sorry, I am ranting here, and know there are many many folks with legitimate conditions that require the latest breakthroughs in Pharmaceutical Technology, but sometimes I just wonder if many of these "conditions" that are "discovered" people actually find out they have because their Doctor read some Medical Journal and told them that that is what they must have. I have been in sales for a long time, never really liked it and now actually hate it and am changing careers.(I was laid off because of my mouth, I saw something I didn't like and called someone out on it, which happened to be my manager. Good Riddance.) Anyway, the folks in Sales (trainers, schools, etc.) always like to brag how everything around us is here because of a Salesman. That's right, because some person sold an idea or a tangible to someone else. If you think about it, it is true. Therefore my rant about the Pharmaceutical Companies.

suzie- Your Doctor I am sure means well and is just going by what the 'field studies' about the Tramadol say. He is not going from experience, if he were, he would be EXTREMELY careful prescribing this stuff and would probably prescribe Hydrocodone instead.
Ok, I am sweating rather profusely now, but you know what, IT FEELS GOOD!!!! The Tramadol is LOSING and it knows it, and the tingling I am having on my skin is just the Tramadol clenching hopelessly on while it is being cleansed from my pores! Ahhh it hurts so GOOD,...GIVE ME MORE AND BRING IT!!!!  
Thanks to all and God bless, will check in later.Everyone remember, as Emily, Fred, Suzie and others here have said, IT WILL GET BETTER!!!!! We just have to have FAITH!

Avatar universal
by frankm12, Feb 07, 2009
Daveat50,

Keep on keepin' on, you are an inspiration. 24 hours and I'll be 2 full days. Yahoo!!!

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by suzipen, Feb 07, 2009
I know Emergee. I know how bad sugar is. And,of course its o-k to rant at me. Coz I know you are doing it because you care. Yes, we are friends.( and yes, I do know how you get. hahahah)    I am trying so hard to stay away from it. My stomach is soooo much better if I dont have it. Thank you for caring.  By the way, how is YOUR stomach? better?  I hope so. It seems as tho we are a lot alike in the way tram affected us.

Frank said,
"Ok, I am sweating rather profusely now, but you know what, IT FEELS GOOD!!!! The Tramadol is LOSING and it knows it, and the tingling I am having on my skin is just the Tramadol clenching hopelessly on while it is being cleansed from my pores! Ahhh it hurts so GOOD,...GIVE ME MORE AND BRING IT!!!"

OOOOHHHH I love this attitude! You are rather amazing right now. I hope you know that.
Keep it up!

Hugs to you all,
suzi


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by Organica, Feb 07, 2009
Kes... Repeat after me: I do NOT feel guilty!!!  We all get of this thing in out own way. You have chosen to taper and GOOD ON YOU!  You are doing what you know is achievable and that is such a great thing! I think you are doing a fabulous job... we ALL think you are doing a fabulous job!  Just hang in there!
love and strength,
Sue

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by Missyjp, Feb 08, 2009
I have been taking tramadol for a back problem for more than 4 years.  I have noticed that my memory is becoming very bad, and some days I cannot remember what happened from morning to night.  Another feeling I have is that events feel like they happened along time before they actually did.  For example, if I went shopping on Monday and now it is Tuesday, it feels like it happened a month ago.  Sometimes I will turn a tv show on and my husband will say "we just watched that last week" and I argue with him that I never have seen it before.  I do this all the time and he now thinks I am getting dementia, only I am too young for that.  I wrote to the drug company that makes tramadol and asked them if tramadol affects your memory, and their response was to send me a letter in which they requested my medical records.  I have no intention of turning my medical records over to them, and am only interested in getting them to respond to my question.  Does anybody know if tramadol affects your memory?  I would really appreciate some input on this.  Thank You

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by priceiswright, Feb 08, 2009
Day 11 was much better than day 10. Woke up. Exercised, laughed, hiked a mountain, went out to eat, laughed some more, NO brain fog....clear cooking UNTIL the NIGHT fallls.....night brings restlessness to it's HIGHEST degree. At night I can't concentrate or lay in one spot for too long, I can't get comfortable!!!!! I am always moving around. I think this might relate to my use patterns as I always used tramadol at night.......who knows? I do know that day 11 was better than day 10. I'm hoping this pattern continues but tramadol rarely leaves a planned pattern.

P.S I didn't take the amino's, the vitamins, the b12, b6 and I felt much better, no heavy head or fog. I think the aminos were effecting my ability to sleep. We'll see......

Hugs to alll who are FIGHTING - your are courageous and brave

Thanks to all who have LEAD - your words and encouragement are inspiring

Avatar universal
by JK90, Feb 08, 2009
Day 5 and boy has this been the longest week of my life! The withdrawal is starting to subside now, rare ocassions I will get hit with them and feel a bit down, but the majority of the time I'm fine. Monday is not a good day for me to be presenting a lecture in uni, I don't wanna! I don't wanna!

I really should do it but this flu note still has a good few days in it so I think i'll stay home. Been feeling that paranoia alot, when I got out. Stop staring at me everyone, no, stop!

I feel I have braved the worst of it now and am starting to return to normality. I did the most work on my dissertation yesterday than I ever could have done on that rat poison!

Alot more new people even than when I started not even a week ago!

Missyjp, yes, I know what you mean. I was having serious problems not only focussing, but my memory was shot. Just thinking about it now, it did feel like every day was a big haze. I could not for the life of me remember what happened yesterday, yet alone last week!

Minutes slip into hours, hours into weeks, weeks into years. I didn't accomplish anything whilst on that drug, barely making it to semester 2 in university! Jeez, my mum would have killed me! (Obviously not if she knew about what was happening, but I feel I am going to keep it to myself as I wouldn't want to worry anyone.)

So yes, I was having a terrible fog which destroyed my memory, and i'm only 18! I'm quite sure you have nothing serious to worry about.

You should seriously take into conisderation maybe tapering down, maybe checking for alternate medication. I'm not saying you must, it's entirely up to you. I just know how bad this stuff hits you without realising.

Hope this clarifies a few things at least.

Take care!
JK

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Feb 08, 2009
Missy,  You said, "Sometimes I will turn a tv show on and my husband will say "we just watched that last week" and I argue with him that I never have seen it before.  I do this all the time and he now thinks I am getting dementia, only I am too young for that".   THAT USED TO HAPPEN TO ME ALL THE TIME WHILE I WAS ON TRMADOL.  On the bright side, all you need are about 3 DVDs and you can watch the same three over and over and over again and you'll never know that you have ever watched em before.  Sick, huh?

I picked up some dry cleaning today and after I paid for the clothes, I actually picked up the shirts off the rack and took them out of the store with me.  When I was on tamadol, I guess that at least 50% of the time after I dropped off my dirty shirts and paid the bill for the fresh ones, I would be so spaced out that I wouldn't even take my fresh shirts off the rack.  At least 1/2 the time, the lady behind the counter would have to ask, "are you going to TAKE your shirts?"  It was pretty embarrassing.

I am not a scientist or medical doctor, but from my "clinical" experience, YES definately, tramadol can and does cause memory loss.  

While on this drug, I remember  regularly walking out of one room and (and great  purpose), walking into another room...only to find myself standing in the next room without ANY clue about what had brought me to that room I was standing in.  Or have you marched down the grocery aisle and gotten to the other end, without realizing what it was that you needed to pick up?  Anyone else experience that?

During nice weather, I FELT that  I was totally under control.  But more than once, my stuperous ride would be interupted by the honking of horns, only to realize I had done something really stupid that nearly cost me my life...like making a left turn in front of an approaching car.

Yeah, I think tramadol messes with your memory all right.  And it causes you NOT to feel, or laugh or cry, or notice the world around you or be the caring person you once were.  TRAM-A-ZONE.

The other thing to consider is that this drug is relatively NEW. It's been out only 14 years out or so.  We know the drug manufacturers have done their research, but who knows what other independant research has been done?  I fully expect that the Surgeon General or some such agency will one day come out with a startling list of problems this drug causes.  And memory loss will certainly be on the list.

My guess is that there are MILLIONS of people hooked right now on this drug, and it's only a matter of time before the vast number of problems this drug CAUSES will be revealed.  And my hope is that anyone reading these posts right now will be far clear of the drug when the TRUTH about this drug is fully revealed.  

At this stage of the world consciousness, what we are talking about in this room is uncharted water.  .  Some here may have gotten off the ship slightly ahead of someone else, but we are all pilgrams, finding our way in a vacuume of conventional knowledge.  That's why it is so important for us to be here for one another.

And anyone who has arrived at this site, whether they admit it or not, realizes something is just not quite right in tramadol land.  Cause nobody arrives at this site by searching key words like, "pleasant tramadol" or "I love tramadol".  

Courgage and Strength to you all.

Fred

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by Organica, Feb 08, 2009
Priceiswright.. I've been off over a month, did a really slow taper, but still get the night figits.  Some nights I still don't sleep. It is one of those horrible Tram things that take a while to wear off... Also, never take B vitimins late in the day.. they will keep you awake!  I take mine first thing or not at all.

Missyjp.. if you read through the myriad of posts you will find that YES, it is the Tramal. Absolutely.

JK90 .. if I had a note saying I didn't hafta and I didn't wanna, I wouldn't!!  Day five is baby tram withdrawal!

You are all doing so well!  Seriously!  I am just so impressed with the bunch on this site.

lots of love and strength to you all,
Sue

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Feb 08, 2009
I see that somehow several words from my above paragraph 5 got deleted or omited.  Fitting really. I meant to say:

During nice weather, I enjoy taking my motorcycle out for a ride after dinner.  I have ridden a "bike" since I was a kid and I so enjoy the sights, feeling, and smells without the constraits of a big metal chassis around me.  I can say now that I was almost always well under the influence of this drug.  At the same time,  I FELT that  I was totally under control.  But more than once, my stuperous ride would be interupted by the honking of horns, only to realize I had done something really stupid that nearly cost me my life...like making a left turn in front of an approaching car.


Avatar universal
by ultraumatized, Feb 08, 2009
i've been debating hard about posting this, but i guess i need to.  i screwed up...this past week a whole series of events just sent my life straight down the toilet & i got stressed & i took a pill.  i had made it just past my month mark...& all the addictive voices were eating at me already, then things got bad & i drove an hour & 1/2 away to get the "emergency pill" i had hidden away. it was only one, but one seems bad enough.  i am so hooked...i am going to have to fight twice as hard now & finding that strength seems monumental.

i guess i'm telling you guys what happened for a couple of reasons, first to get it off my chest but also to let you know how seriously addictive tramadol is...don't underestimate it & don't let it back in your life whatever you do!  i truly thought i had built my resolve against it, but when i let my guard down for a second it was waiting for me.

i hate to be negative when it seems like everyone is doing so well, i just want you all to know that the danger is there.  i feel like maybe i'm a struggling against this in a different way than most people & that i may need more serious help for the kind of addictive problems i have.  Still, if there are those here that ever go thru a relapse or think of it, know you aren't alone there.

processing this all is really hard, so for now i just wish everyone the best of luck!

Avatar universal
by emergee, Feb 08, 2009
strange,  people talk about stupor and fog on tram,   as if they were in a drug haze.   i didn't feel that way at all.   i felt PERFECTLY CLEAR.   alert,  normal, competent.   the thing is-- i wasn't.  i did not know i was distracted,  sloppy,  making poor decisions.  i did not know that i was taking waaaay unnecessary risks.   i thought i was as smart as usual. i didn't know i was in a fog.  


all those with night restlessness or fidgits ,  it is a dopamine problem caused by tram.   i got over the first week or two of it with hylands.  then i got it again , a few weeks later,   from overexertion.   it was a clear causal connection between intense physical exertion and fidgits at night.   i never got an answer to why this happened,   i speculate that it is adrenaline depleting dopamine when it is already low.   all i know is the body is very very complex.  health is a delicate balance and it doesn't like being played with.  
i also found out that opiates mess up the gut.   when this happens and stays that way it can cause degenerative disease and auto-immune problems.  

Avatar universal
by emergee, Feb 08, 2009
strange,  people talk about stupor and fog on tram,   as if they were in a drug haze.   i didn't feel that way at all.   i felt PERFECTLY CLEAR.   alert,  normal, competent.   the thing is-- i wasn't.  i did not know i was distracted,  sloppy,  making poor decisions.  i did not know that i was taking waaaay unnecessary risks.   i thought i was as smart as usual. i didn't know i was in a fog.  


all those with night restlessness or fidgits ,  it is a dopamine problem caused by tram.   i got over the first week or two of it with hylands.  then i got it again , a few weeks later,   from overexertion.   it was a clear causal connection between intense physical exertion and fidgits at night.   i never got an answer to why this happened,   i speculate that it is adrenaline depleting dopamine when it is already low.   all i know is the body is very very complex.  health is a delicate balance and it doesn't like being played with.  
i also found out that opiates mess up the gut.   when this happens and stays that way it can cause degenerative disease and auto-immune problems.  

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by Missyjp, Feb 08, 2009
Does anyone have any suggestions on the best way to taper off of tramadol?  I currently take about 10 pills a day and I am more than a little worried about the impact the drug is having on my brain.  Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated.  Thank You

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by daveat50, Feb 08, 2009
You folks are doing well and honestly - you are inspirational. I have never ever taken part in this kind of forum before. But here I am.

The main reason why I quit was the brain fog. I believe I missed a big promotion due to exactly that within the last week or two. I would do real well and then BOOM, I would start to repeat something I had already done. That can be detrimental on a schedule. I don't blame them, I blame myself and my own rampant stupidity for thinking only one more won't hurt.

FrankM - three days for me. I don't know what's working but it all is right this time. Maybe I am at war?

For those experiencing the sweats. I won't use the old exercise video 'sweatin' with the oldies' with old what'shisname. We're in a new program now called 'Sweatin' with the trammies'. Okay people. SWEAT! Ooh don't it feel good? You can do it.
Clap.
Clap.
Major applause.

419772 tn?1266240939
by roddy132, Feb 08, 2009
Hey Missyip,
                 I myself am doing a taper from 500mgs a day 4mths ago down to 75mgs at present.  I can only suggest tapering slowly from a high dose of Tram. Are you on tabs or caps 50mgs? either one you can try reducing by half a tab or cap every week,.better still if you can get the soluble version from your Doctor, known as Zydol, this makes it easier to reduce the dosage in a more accurate way ie dissolve in water and only consume a half or quarter of the 50mg Pliquid as per dosage. Being a nurse in the UK i was able to obtain soluble from the Pharmacy, i am not sure regarding the States  but i should imagine your Doctor would be able to prescribe them for you, ask him.as it does make it a little easier regarding tapering.

Dont worry regarding the effect on your brain IT WILL RECOVER once you have stopped the intake of the drug.  We have all had similar problems and thoughts whilst taking Tramadol it is a terrible drug with nasty withdrawal effects but you can beat it as many already have on here.  Read the posts and take heart, one day you too will be Tramadol free.

Take Care Rod

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by Missyjp, Feb 08, 2009
Hello Rod,

I am on 50mgs tablets and my prescription is for 2 pills, 4 times a day.  Of course, over time I began to take more than that.  I am not sure if we have Zydol in the States but I will ask my doctor.  The doctor prescribed the tramadol because he said that it was not as addictive as vicodan and other codeine based pain medications.  I began taking them for back pain but I also noticed that it does lift me out of depression.  My 17 year old son died in August of 2004, and then my other son was hit by an RPG in Iraq in January of 2005.  He lost his right leg and damaged his left leg severely.  I fell into such a deep depression after these events that life was barely worth living.  I'll never get over the loss of my son Michael but I am healing slowly.  The tramadol has made my memory so bad that it helped me forget so many painful events with my sons, but I know that I must return to reality.  I hate living in this fog and I want so badly to stop taking this mind altering drug.  I cannot understand why the doctors tell people that tramadol is not addictive!

Avatar universal
by frankm12, Feb 08, 2009
Hi all, -T +47,
My goodness, am I ever going to get to sleep again?? I tried the Flexiril (even 3 of 'em) but all they did was make me foggy, and I remember when I got that prescription, 1 would knock me out! Wow, this Tramadol is some wicked ****! I showered and changed clothes yesterday at 3pm, and showered again this  morning at about 8am. It startled me how yellow from the sweat my white undershirt had gotten around my waist area. Goodness gracious, that must have been about a ton of this rat poison called tramadol oozing out of my pores. By please good lord above, let me get some sleep tonight!! Please!!! My head is quaking, which I expected, but overall I feel better today than yesterday(day 1), but man I hope I can sleep tonight. I've thought about it, and am not expecting to miraculously feel better in 2 days after taking almost 8,000 of these 50mg tabs in the last year. No wonder my shirt was yellowish!!Uck! My wife has been wonderful about this experience, I am a lucky man. Come on, let's get on with day 3 ,but let me sleep!!!!! AArrrrrghhhhh!!!!
God bless you all.

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by madtram, Feb 08, 2009
Madtram is buried under piles of exams & is also paying for her sins by dealing with the tax office on a daily basis, nothing better than being the pet project of a revenue clerk eyeing promotion.

On to more important things.

Dear Missy, So sorry to hear about your sons, that is a Iot to deal with.

I agree with Rod that tapering is a good plan for you.  If you can't get the Zydol, you can buy a tablet cutter from the pharmacy, or just use a sharp knife to make up your desired dose.  If you find reducing by half a tab a week is leaving you with too many side effects, you can stay at the level for another week or try reducing by only a quarter.  Sue, (I think) mentioned someone whose successful taper started by just cutting slivers off their tablet.  Everyone's biochemistry is different so a bit of self-experimentation is in order.

It will help if you support your body through this by experimenting with the recommendations in the Thomas recipe, Rhodiola, L-Tyrosine, L-theanine, B group vitamins, especially B12, magnesium and SamE  can all be taken while you taper.  When you have reduced your dose, you can start to introduce some natural antidepressants like 5htp or St John's Wort.

Ultraumatized, this venue is not about putting on a happy face, it's about the realities of the trama-coaster & that includes relapse.  As you said, the drug still has its hooks in you but you have already proved that you are stronger, you have been off for a month.  So it seemed like a reasonable idea at the time to drive across town for a pill but now that you have returned to your senses you are reminding yourself that tramadol contributes to crazy behaviour.

Just a reminder though that resuming tramadol not that long after you have stopped does increase the risk of seizures as your brain chemistry is still stabilising and can't adjust as well to fluctuations.  One capsule is unlikely to hurt but there would be a real risk if you found yourself escalating towards your old dose.

Are you supporting your mood with any of the natural remedies?  5htp and St John's Wort work well for me.  Dopamine is very much involved in addictive behaviours.  Phenylalanine and tyrosine supplementation can help boost your natural dopamine levels.

Dave; JK90; Frankm; daveat & Priceiswright, your attitudes are impressive, I was a lot more sorry for myself at your early stages of withdrawal.  If you can stay positive at this stage, the rewards that are coming your way are so much more than a free set of steak knives.  Knowing that every time I lie down to sleep I will and being able to count on my body to not only get up the next morning but make it through a whole day & fit in some exercise is still a total joy.  There were many times in withdrawal that I could not make myself believe that this was possible, even though Emily & others had passed through the plague and pestilence, I felt like it was taking so long for me or maybe it was the virus after all & somehow that I must be different.  Yes we all have different symptoms at different times & our bodies run on different schedules but what is without doubt is that your body free of tramadol is a better body, a healed body, a body with the potential to grow again, no matter your age.

Best to all,

Michelle



689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Feb 08, 2009
Ultra,
I dont think I posted this on here, but I know I put it in my journal. At exactly 30 days tram-free, I also took a pill. I felt horrible about it, but I finally let go of the massive guilt I felt. I am human, and so are you. I am now at 81 days, and I dont let that setback consume me. I dont even count it when I am quoting my clean days. You are in recovery and it is hard. The w/ds stink, but recovery is also a challenge. I couldnt believe I did that after all the he77 I went thru, but I did.  And I moved on.  You will move on to. Dont beat yourself up over this.
tramadol will ALWAYS be waiting for us. We just have to be stronger.  

Missy,
I cannot even begin to imagine the loss you have endured. I can only tell you that you are in my prayers.
I know you will find the strength to get off tramadol. Either way, taper or c/t, I know you can do it.
And yes, my memory suffered a great deal while I was on tram. I am still getting memories back that I had long since forgotten. Big hug to you.

Emergee,
I totally agree. I thought I was doing terrific when on this stupid stupid drug. It wasnt until I went off that I realized I had been in a fog for 5 or so years. I am also finding that when I do cardio, I get exhausted. really exhausted. That never happened before going off of it. I just hate to think of all the ways I have messed up my body.
I have been trying to read like I used to, and am getting super frustated because I dont retain info as well anymore. I SURE hope this gets better before next week. I can only hope.

To everyone, no matter what stage you are at,
Be Strong. Dont let tramadol win.

love,suzi






Avatar universal
by kes68, Feb 08, 2009
Ultra - don't take this the wrong way - but I was glad to finally see a post about someone slipping.  I think it is the reality of this horrible addiction - and it reminds us newcomers that this is is a process - there is a quote from AA that I really like "we claim progress, not perfection"  I know a slip can be devastating - but go easy on yourself, learn from it, and keep going. A slip does not take away the clean time you had, and all the hard work you have done!  
Thank you for your honesty - I don't think we can do this alone, and we have all kept so many secrets, so many lies - this is the place to be honest, and get the support you need.

Missy - I am starting to taper as well - I have been on tram for about 3-4 years, and am now up to 16 -20 pills a day - this week I stayed at 16 everyday and it was okay - so next week I am going to try 15.  Like you, I am tired of the memory loss, lack of concentration.  At first I thought I was superwoman, and could do everything, and anything - but eventually I realized that I was in a fog, I wasn't myself, and superwoman was more sloppywoman - I had not been doing everything as well as I had thought.
Frank and Dave (and who ever I missed that are starting their c/t)  hang in there - I look forward to see how you are doing, what you are experiencing.  You are 2 or 3 days closer to being free from this!

Tomorrow I am going down 50 mg per day for the week - I have no idea if I will notice - I am hoping that I won't notice  signifigant withdrawals until I get down to a lower dose.  

Thank you all for your posts
Kelly

Avatar universal
by emergee, Feb 08, 2009
missyjp,
    i am just so terribly sorry about what happened to your sons.   i just wanted to say that to you and that i admire your courage to undertake this project in spite of it.   it is humbling to come face to face with someone with your courage.  
     i know you will succeed and i hope you keep writing in if you need to.   it can be a rocky road but so worth it.    


ultra,  
    i feel bad that my post crossed yours so it looks as if i ignored yours .    that was so jarring to me when i saw it. suzi said what is true and she was the perfect one to respond, but still it seems awful that the first person to write in didn't address your post.      btw my life has hit the skids financially since i quit tram and since i have on this forum.    all the work i did for the last 6 years has been wiped away and all my savings and i may lose my house.   several times it has felt weird to face these hardships "naked",  without chemical help.   i think i am not tempted because it is pretty obvious for me that the way of tram is the way of death.  that is just for me.  i am too beat up now to do this all over again.  perhaps you will come to that awareness too and then all temptation passes.  .  

750886 tn?1235640344
by priceiswright, Feb 08, 2009
day 12 cant sleep for any minute more than 8 hours. very strange for me as i am someone who could usually sleep for 9 - 13 hours. fog is low today. easy to get out of bed but wasnt easy to fall asleep last night. today is a reflective day, signs of nostalgia and depression float in and out, i look back at pictures of times with friends or family and think about what good times they were but then feel guilty wishing i hadnt been on tramadol. would i have enjoyed it more? would i have laughed more??? would they have been able to see me, the real me?

I am thankful to those who post on this sight in bad times, good times, long times, lean times...the stories keep hope swimming and alive and the reminder to not take a pilll is strong. i will visit every day because i enjoy reading peoples stories.......

day 12s night was better than day 11. thanks for the tip on the hylands restful legs - AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You miss 100% of the shots you dont take....and aalll of us at least we are taking them

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Feb 08, 2009
I am in awe at everyone and at  everything that has been posted today.  I have no words to offer, beyond that which has already been expressed so well above.  I am humbled to be in the same room as you all -  in this place, with all of the sensativity, love, openness and helpfulness that is shared.  

We see but through a glass darkly.  We are all struggling pilgrams - each doing the best we can with the moment we have been given right now.  

I am sending out good, positive thoughts to each one who passes this page.

May the peace that passes all understanding fill your hearts and minds today and the coming week, in whatever you do and where ever you travel.

Fred

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Feb 09, 2009
Price - I liked what you said, "You miss 100% of the shots you dont take....and all of us at least we are taking them "  

Nice.  Really encouraging words.  

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by Missyjp, Feb 09, 2009
I want to thank everyone for your kind words of encouragement.  I know that withdrawing from tramadol is going to be absolutely horrible but I feel so lucky to have found this forum.  I have hope that with your help and support, I can and will get off of tramadol forever.  As much as I love my family and friends, I know that they have no idea what I am going through and how hard it is to get off of this drug.  It feels so good to be able to share with people who truly understand my situation.  I have already gained courage in the few days that I have been reading everyones' posts.  

Thank You,

Missy  

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by roddy132, Feb 09, 2009
Hi Missy
            I was very saddened to read about you two sons it must be a devastating time for you and you have my heartfelt best wishes and thoughts.  It must be really difficult trying to taper off the Tramadol especially with all the other emotional issues.  You can however do this, its not going to be easy but believe me there is light at the end of the darkest tunnel and you will see it i promise Missy.  Stay strong and remember there are people who genuinly care and do feel your sorrow.  Keep going the light is not that far away  Take Care Rod

Avatar universal
by shaffekl, Feb 09, 2009
Just checking in.  8 weeks tram free!  To everyone detoxing, everyday gets a little better. Fred, emregee, suzi, roddy, of course Emily, I'm so glad to see your still here helping others with your strong words of encouragement.  I will never be able to repay you guys for what you have done for me.  thanks so much

738790 tn?1377724594
by KC67, Feb 09, 2009
Day 1 - OMGosh!  All I can say is "THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!"  (do you see the exclamation points?) to most importantly EMILY (for being the pioneer of the expose of this horrendous drug), Fred, Emergee, Suzi, Roddy, PriceIsRight, Dave, Kes, and anyone else I may have missed!  I am going through HE@# ! right now.  I am now 26 1/2 hours from my last dose.  I posted earlier this week and told all of you that I would be starting cold turkey TODAY (which is Feb. 9th).  I have to THANK each of you because YOU helped me prepare myself for this day...I prepared by reading your posts (sometimes multiple times) and preparing my very soul for the battle that I am only beginning to embark upon.  I have said this before, but it restores my faith in the GOODNESS of humanity that those of you who have successfully kicked this drug - that you would continue to come back to this forum to support those of us who are just beginning our journey of h-e-double toothpicks!  This journal is a place of honesty and unconditional positive support.  I am so grateful and I can honestly say that I would NOT be on Day 1 if it weren't for the strength and courage that each of YOU has shown via your posts.  

Please take me seriously when I tell you that you have SAVED another life!  I know I have a long way to go, but (because of all of YOU) I am waging war on my addiction and I WILL be victorious!

As for how I am feeling...I am extremely anxious and depressed and apathetic.  Has anyone done any research as to WHY the anxiety and depression (from the hidden antidepressant in Tramadol) is so unbearable?  What the heck kind of drug are they sneaking into this supposedly "safe" painkiller?  Emily has mentioned in past posts that it is a "very old antidepressant".  Yes, the physical symptoms are there for me...pain, headache, chills, achey-feeling, hot/cold flashes, intestinal suffering...but the MENTAL feelings (anxiety/depression/apathy) are OVERWHELMING!  What kind of drug is this???!!!!  What "old" antidepressant have they snuck in this drug?  Whatever it is, it is horrible and I want to encourage ALL of you, who have managed to beat this drug, how I would give anything to be in your shoes (not literally, but at 26+ hours post-tram, my mind is a bit crazy now).  I hope my current expressions of my withdrawals will inspire you to NEVER want to get back on the Tram-o-train (credit goes to Fred for coining that awesome phrase).  

Right now I don't want to DO anything or feel anything.  I just want to cry.  I want my life back!  I KNOW that I have been living in a Trama-fog for the past 3 years and I KNOW I have missed key pieces of my life.  On Tram, I have been irritable, mindless, unfocused, depressed, apathetic, sluggish, lazy, unemotional - yet I still believed the LIE that I was "more energetic", "more fun to be around", "more social", "more talkative".  I believed all this so I continued to use the damn-Tram, even though I wasn't in pain.  I continued to use it at increasing doses because I HAD to feel "normal".

Ultraumitized - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't beat yourself up for falling off the wagon and taking 1 pill.  I want to take a pill so badly right now, but I so desperately want to kick this addiction that I will NOT do it!  Suzi addressed it perfectly in that she slipped up, but got back on track the next day and she said, "I dont let that setback consume me. I dont even count it when I am quoting my clean days".  Each day brings us a day of NEW grace and we need to embrace it!  I want you to know that I empathize with you and completely understand WHY you took another.  Just know that this drug is VERY powerful and there is grace at the beginning of each new day.  Your honesty is so appreciated and we support you in your ongoing battle!

Missyjp - I read your post today and my heart goes out to you.  Tramadol DOES numb your feelings and (at times) makes you feel invincible to the world.  I have 2 boys and can't imagine the suffering you have been through and the need to NOT feel.  The unfortunate thing is that Tramadol messes with your brain and then turns on you to make depression/anxiety even worse.  It's okay to FEEL and experience these feelings of overwhelming sadness.  Just come here - to Emily's journal - where it is positive and safe - to get support.  I believe that part of getting your life back is to go through these "feelings" that come and go at random and to somehow embrace them.  I know that sounds weird, but right now, I am an emotional roller-coaster of emotions and I am trying my best to embrace them and just focus on life post-tram so that I can truly experience what "normal" really feels like.  Again, my heart goes out to you and I hope you will find a plan - whether it is tapering or Cold Turkey to  prepare to experience this withdrawal.

PriceIsRight - I thank you for your update on how you are doing and I dream of the day when I can come on this forum and say, "I am on Day 12".  You write beautifully (like Emily) and I thank you for your honesty.  Keep up the fight!

Okay.  I am officially incapable of writing anymore - as I am in a Trama-fog and need to go attend to my small children.

I have tears in my eyes as I am typing this....again, I can't thank all of you ENOUGH for your positive support and honesty about your trials and tribulations with this horrible drug!

Is is okay to say, "I love all of you!!!!"??? and thank you all for your posts.

Sincerely with hope and love,
KC67


755837 tn?1234823754
by daveat50, Feb 09, 2009
Folks - all of you - please keep going. Missyjp - wow. My heart goes out to you. KC67 - keep going. I've got another day free  and yet I've had another foggy day. I believe this is better. At least I'm not confused. I see the fog when before I thought I was thinking oh so clearly. This was my day as I didn't crave the pill. I DIDN'T CRAVE THE PILL!

First step is over. The next step is next. Or was that the fog talking?  

Funny what we've all been through. Keep surviving. Even as I continue I'll still check in on Frankm and all of you. You are doing very well. Stay strong. Just stay strong.

667826 tn?1233726740
by Organica, Feb 09, 2009
KC67... I was really effected by your post - so much from the heart.  
You are SO BRAVE and, for that matter, SO LUCID to be able to write so well at this stage!! You talk about those who are off Tramal inspiring others, but you are doing that already.
You know that you are armed with knowledge - all the things that help ease the process - and with unconditional support.
Onwards, Upwards and Out of this awful drug!!
love and strength,
Sue.

738790 tn?1377724594
by KC67, Feb 09, 2009
Organica (Sue) - in my Trama-fog, I failed to mention how much I have been encouraged by your posts.  THANK YOU!!!  You are truly a positive and inspiring being and I am so grateful for your support.  Again, thank YOU!

As for my appeared being "so lucid", I can only attriubte it to YOU and the rest of the dear people that post on this site.  I worked a full day today ( not adivsed, but I have the rest of the week off) literally WAITING until I could get to this site and relate and be comforted by people who had (and are) in my shoes.  My lucidity comes from being prepared for battle because of the shared support you and everyone else has posted before me.

I have tried to kick this addiciton before, but until I found ya'll (as we say in the South), I did not have the courage, support, and understanding to do it.  

Tomorrow, I look forward to yet another day further from my last dose - which will be Day 2.

sincerely with love and hope,
KC67

Avatar universal
by frankm12, Feb 09, 2009
Hi all, -T +72. I hope everyone is hanging in there and grinding it out!! No sleep AGAIN, two nights in a row. For me , that has been the toughest part of detoxing from this ****. At least this morning, after I took my stepson to school, I came back home, took a hot shower, and laid in bed. Lo and behold, I SLEPT!!!!!!!! It was only 2 hours, though it felt like 10. Not bad huh, 2 hours sleep in the last 64 hours? I was very melancholy and nostalgic today, cried my eyes out at the end of the Shawshank Redemption, but I know that is just my brain getting used to the abrupt lack of serontonin(sp?) , and in a couple days should be ok. I feel like I have gotten to the crest of the detox mountain, and am on my down the other side towards sobriety. I though of something today that I found pretty ironic, and that is the depths of addiction intersects with the heights of denial. Man, I thank God for all of you and that I found this site. It has made this hellride much easier to deal with. Tommorrow should be better.

KC67- Hang in there!! You are doing great...the first 48-72 hours are the worst, it WILL get better. God bless you all.



Avatar universal
by emergee, Feb 09, 2009
suzi,
   i finally saw the picture of your "boys'.  one human , one animal.  he is so cute i can't stand it (your human child).   and strangely,  which i didn't realize until i saw the photo,  you ,  in my imagination,  looked like him.   am i psychic?  
   hope school is going okay.

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Feb 09, 2009
shaffekl,  eight weeks for you off this drug.  Pretty cool  shaffekl.  I still recall our early days withdrawing together, as i recall.  

Like KC here together with "his" buds going through this right now.    There is a special bond that forms between people battling an addiction together...especially those withdrawing at the same time, like Dave and Price right now.  

Courage and Strength to all.

Fred



689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Feb 09, 2009
Emergee,
That is my youngest son, who is 8. And you MUST be psychic!   Coz, he does look like his mama for sure.
My other 2 look more like their dad. But thats o-k. :)  Hes pretty cute.  I actually have visions in my head of how I think all of you look. Isnt that weird? I wonder how close I am?? Well, emily, rod, hope and kev are easy coz they have pics.
.............I finally start school tomorrow!! Boy, I hope I can concentrate when reading. It actually scares me somewhat.
    I was so sad to hear what has happened recently. I know how hard it is to have financial problems. It all hit me after going off tram too. I will pray for you. That can be a very powerful thing,
I know what you mean about facing hardships "naked". without chemical help. Even just facing normal things that I havent done in a while. Its weird. I know I say weird a lot, but thats how I feel so much of the time. weird................
I went on a business trip yesterday, and today. Got home tonight.
THAT WAS WAY WEIRD.  I hadnt travelled for them since I went off tram, so I had a hard time. WHY? I dont know.
At the airport, I felt paranoid, unsafe, lonely, and almost had a big ugly panic attack right there in front of dozens of strangers.I cried on the 2nd plane the whole ride.the heart palps didnt stop until I got home. I feel safe at home. The problem is, I dont want to work at all for them now. (I was just gonna do it for a short time while I am in school.)

Sorry to ramble guys. I am super tired.  I will be back tomorrow.

KC- good for you!!!!!  SO PROUD!       BIG HUG FOR YOU! You need to take credit for what YOU are doing. Its kinda neat to realize we are stronger than we ever thought, huh? And of course its o-k to say "I love you guys!"We love you too!

Frank,
Your doing absolutely wonderful! You have the perfect attitude to do this, and HEY, you are doing it! Not much longer now, and you'll be feelin so much better.

Price,
you said, to which Fred responded how nice;
You miss 100% of the shots you dont take....and aalll of us at least we are taking them.
This a very encouraging statement, I agree.
BUT, and I cant believe I am gonna admit this, I didnt get it at first, and thought you were talking about 'taking a shot of whiskey or something'. Now, isnt that nutty??? Boy, what HAS tram done to me? :(

Shaffekl,
8 weeks!!!  YeeeeeHaaawww!!!! Was wondering where you were?? Glad to hear! It only gets better ,huh?

Dave- not craving is a BIG DEAL!!!  HUGS to you!

Sue,
you have such a soothing tone to your words, and really help to calm me. Thank you for that.

Anyway, I am sooooooo tired. If I dont go to bed now, I will really start sounding, uh,..............weird.

love  to all, suzi
(night fred)



689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Feb 09, 2009
I know, I know.............supposed to be in bed, but I saw this and had to bring it here. Freebirds journal:

"Our individual circumstancess and differrences are irrelevant when it comes to recovery .By letting go of our uniqueness and surrendering to this simple way of life, we're bound to find that we feel a part of something big. And feeling a part of something gives us the strength to walk through life hardship and all.........Just For Today.......I will let go of my uniqueness and embrace the principles of Recovery I have in common with so many others.
My hardships do not exclude me from Recovery; rather, they draw me into it. "



689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Feb 09, 2009
Really, now.......goodnight and sweet dreams.

To those that arent sleeping so well, just remember it wont last forever.

750886 tn?1235640344
by priceiswright, Feb 10, 2009
KC - I am SO PROUD OF YOU! You are SO positive and prepared. Please feel free to reach out to me if you need anything at all. You are fighting a long journey that is going to save your life. You go girl!!

I just admire the strength of everyone here, who has the ability to believe, know, and accept that their life off tramadol will be better than a life on tramadol. So far this statement is staying true for me. My family (those members who don't know about the addiction) tell me how wonderful I look and can tell that I am much happier than I was the last time they saw me. Why??? Maybe because I don't look like an anorexic, the glow to my skin has returned, no sunken eyes, and my laugh - yes you know the one that disappeared for 1 year - its back! its my new favorite sound :)

I love this forum of support - suzi, sue, fred, emily, hope, emergee, roddy, kc and all others.....I feel I found a family, a family that knows EXACTLY what im going through and still cares and loves me for the TRUE ME (not the "normal" ME popping 10 pills of trams ). That's special!!!

To those still fighting, or getting ready to begin - we CAN do it!!!!

Day 13 is gone and it was a lovely day........we'lll see if I can get some sleep .......hugs and thank yous to alll!

667826 tn?1233726740
by Organica, Feb 10, 2009
Frankm12... I ALWAYS cry during Shawshank Redemption, tramal-withdrawal or no tramal-withdrawal :-)
Also, one thing I found was that the 'waiting for the right time to sleep' didn't work for me.. I slept when I felt like it, as it was so rare.. good on you for grabbing your 2 hours worth!
love, everyone
Sue

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Feb 10, 2009
Good Morning Tramadol Warriors!

*even if you aren't feeling mighty Warrior-like; you are ...*

It's interesting because the way Tramadol withdrawal effected my appetite; was to demolish all hunger and all thirst mechanisms. This is also happening with my no so lovely klonopin taper.

PriceisWright writes;"I just admire the strength of everyone here, who has the ability to believe, know, and accept that their life off Tramadol will be better than a life on Tramadol. So far this statement is staying true for me."

It IS true. As unbelievable as it sounds; life is better without the rat poison known as Tramadol. When you are on it (I was of this mind) you truly do believe it is helping you. This perception is solidified if you suddenly cease using it. The withdrawal is wicked; and unless you know it is withdrawal, you think 'Oh no; I NEED TRAMADOL."  Of course the truth is it's slowly murdering you. This is simply A BAD DRUG. The first sign I had of withdrawal was I thought  was dying. Seriously.  was pretty sure something was horribly wrong. I just NEVER suspected the Tramadol.

I am not sure that it was strength that carried me thru. I think it was, 'being done." Surrender. Fact is Tramadol beat me up during withdrawal and like many have sad I do not have another 'Quit' in me for Tramadol. I made up my mind that NOTHING was  more important to me than getting back to a life pre-2002 ... which is when I gave in and started to take pills for back pain.


KC - It's a tri cyclic antidepressant. (OLD ... seriously OLD) ... I was NEVER once told that was in Tramadol.  The name is probably in my journal and I had to search everywhere for that information. If I had known;  NEVER would have taken it. Why? Because if anything; I tend towards anxious,not depressed. So a tri cyclic antidepressant is not at all good for my poor brain. A little late now huh? And yet; I am comforted by what you have said about SAVING someone's life. Seriously; that makes me wanna cry. In a happy way.

I also saved my own life; with ALOT of help from my friends here ...

Awhile back my Mom visited me. (Mid December) She was asking me about what I was doing online and I told her about the Journal and Tramadol and I told her about the power of simply writing down what you are experiencing. How there was almost nothing on Tramadol withdrawal, so I started to write. And how it bloomed. And has grown. I am very grateful to be associated with anyone at any stage coming off Tramadol or even thinking about it. Why? Because it helps me with my own Recovery.

Previous to this journal; I helped food addicts. I did that for five years. Addiction is a tricky thing. Am I an addict? Yes. Absolutely. Do I know each and every drug?

Well here's a list of things I tried to use to help with the pain of my injury and near disability.

Percoset, Codeine, Morphine, Darvoset, Vicodin.
Flexeril, Soma, many other muscle relaxants. In fact i was on Soma also when I stopped using Tramadol.
Xanax, Ativan, Klonopin (the last of the drugs ... the last of the chemical "help" and OMG it ***** to be in tolerance withdrawal from a Benzo)

(And you know what? The withdrawal from Tramadol was harder for me ... speaking of and for ME only ... I know many people go to hell and back on Benzos)

Anti-inflamitories ... some of them taken off the market for killing people.

Every single time an antidepressant came up; I basically avoided them ...

Steroids, muscle trigger point injections. Tranquilizers in the form of a shot ...

Several different mild anti anxiety pills ...

Booze. Yeah.  I went thru a period where I thought that whiskey and brandy were pain killers. They are. For about 30 minutes. The come down off booze is the Suckosity! So ... that ended ... There's a Reason it is called"Spirits" and certainly as the daughter of a major boozer (my Father died right before turning 51 of Pancreatic and Liver Cancer aka ...The Booze killed him) ... I think I am allergic to booze. And  am also 100% sure that the sugar in the booze did me no good.

Propananol ... for PTSD ... (that worked ... but it was short term and combined with EMDR and EFT and therapy ...)

There's probably some pills I left out ...

But yeah. Coming off all of that was easier FOR ME than Tramadol.

When I went to the chronic pain "specialist" he had this whole list of 'what drugs have you tried?' ... It was; where's the box for ..... "Yeah, Dude, EVERTHING."

What works best?

Yoga, keeping my weight low. (No weight in belly as it hurts my discs)

Excellent nutrition. Coping mechanisms. A realization that a Type A personality might not serve me well; and learning to deal with my true nature. Exercise (although I am not where I was ... I will be ...) and treatment for ADDICTION. Staying in the hour I am in promises me a good future. I do everything  can ... to help myself ... in the hour I am in.

Ultra - one pill.  It's really interesting. You said in your post that other people must be having an easier time of it? I think maybe drugs and their use are DOC ... drug of choice for you? Makes more sense given what you have told us.

Ultra; You could sit us down at a table with cake and pills, and our thoughts would be much the same.

For me; recognizing I have an addict's mind and responses was such a huge relief. I know that sounds funny. But i couldn't fix anything until I KNEW. I mean deep down GUT-KNOWING.

The most amazing part of drug use to me (or addiction) is that once you KNOW ... you can't escape and you can't "go back." Yes, you can fall off the wagon.

BUT you NEVER go "home"again once a pill has turned on you.

i.e. I was standing wth Mom in front of a Pastry Display with her BFF from High School who is a MAJOR food pusher if not a food addict. This lady was practically BEGGING me & her to join her in dessert to go. My Mom looks at me and she says, "Do you want anything?"

I say,"Yes. I want everything in the case. I want it more than you could imagine, which is WHY I am NOT having it, Ever. Again."

To use a Fred-ism. "If it wants me THAT bad; it cannot have me."

I've been in Recovery for six YEARS ... lost 60 pounds ... and have remained small. Because I treat my trigger foods as if they are someone offering me a needle ...  use behavioral techniques, repulsion, and the classic AA ideas ...

No thank you. :D

Anyhow Ultra, I am really proud of you for saying what you did and I hope you are feeling proud of yourself and staying off the darn rat poison.


Love and healing to all!
Emily

Massive support vibes to everyone ... every one ... all of us!

738790 tn?1377724594
by KC67, Feb 10, 2009
Day 2 – Cold Turkey.  It has been over 48 hrs. since my last dose of Tram.  Today is a bit better than yesterday.  I still have a bit of achey-flu-like symptoms, as well as some depression and anxiety, but today is a new day – another day further from my last Tram. dose.  I didn’t sleep well last night…woke up 4 times – got up and walked around the house – got some water – and then tried to go back to sleep.  I was able to sleep in short bouts before waking up WIDE AWAKE again.  I was prepared for all of these withdrawal symptoms because I have read all of your posts.  So instead of freaking out – like I have done the last time I tried to quit, I embraced them!  

I said to my symptoms (any my body), “Welcome.  I know you are here because you - my body - are doing its best to rid my very cells of this poison that should never have been ingested in the first place.  I welcome you because you - my body - are doing its job.  I know that these symptoms won’t last forever and I know I have to go THROUGH this to beat you!  There is no easy way around it.  My body and I have declared war on the residual bits of poison that you (Tramadol) have placed within my cells.  But this stronghold you have over me is temporary.  I embrace these awful symptoms because I will eventually win!”

Right now, I am battling the Trama-voices that are telling me that I am better off taking a pill or two to avoid feeling this lousy.  That’s why I had to type my conversation (above) with my symptoms.  It would be so easy for me to just get my Rx refilled and just take a couple to relieve my withdrawal symptoms, but again…I recognize them as the evil Trama-voices speaking to me at a cellular level to get me to take more.  

I WILL NOT DO IT!

It would be one thing if the majority of you that post on this site were saying, “Yes, with each and every dose,  I WAS a better person on Tram.  It gave me energy and I was highly social.  I felt better when I took my Tram – even though as time passed, I had to increase my dose to get the same effects I used to get.”

But no!  That is NOT what you are saying.  Most of you are saying that you LIKE being able to feel again.  To feel normal without the use of this painkiller/tricyclic antidepressant-addictive-garbage-pill.  THAT, my dear friends, is what is keeping me from listening to those Trama-voices.  The hope that at Day 8 or 9 or 22 -  that something magical will happen – a “miracle” as Fred has shared.  The miracle of waking up and realizing that this drug has STOLEN your life – not enhanced it!  I want to experience that miracle and you will be the first to know when it happens.

Day 2 done!  Day 3 – Bring it on!!!!

Sincerely with love and hope,
KC67


738790 tn?1377724594
by KC67, Feb 10, 2009
Day 2 – Cold Turkey.  It has been over 48 hrs. since my last dose of Tram.  Today is a bit better than yesterday.  I still have a bit of achey-flu-like symptoms, as well as some depression and anxiety, but today is a new day – another day further from my last Tram. dose.  I didn’t sleep well last night…woke up 4 times – got up and walked around the house – got some water – and then tried to go back to sleep.  I was able to sleep in short bouts before waking up WIDE AWAKE again.  I was prepared for all of these withdrawal symptoms because I have read all of your posts.  So instead of freaking out – like I have done the last time I tried to quit, I embraced them!  

I said to my symptoms (any my body), “Welcome.  I know you are here because you - my body - are doing its best to rid my very cells of this poison that should never have been ingested in the first place.  I welcome you because you - my body - are doing its job.  I know that these symptoms won’t last forever and I know I have to go THROUGH this to beat you!  There is no easy way around it.  My body and I have declared war on the residual bits of poison that you (Tramadol) have placed within my cells.  But this stronghold you have over me is temporary.  I embrace these awful symptoms because I will eventually win!”

Right now, I am battling the Trama-voices that are telling me that I am better off taking a pill or two to avoid feeling this lousy.  That’s why I had to type my conversation (above) with my symptoms.  It would be so easy for me to just get my Rx refilled and just take a couple to relieve my withdrawal symptoms, but again…I recognize them as the evil Trama-voices speaking to me at a cellular level to get me to take more.  

I WILL NOT DO IT!

It would be one thing if the majority of you that post on this site were saying, “Yes, with each and every dose,  I WAS a better person on Tram.  It gave me energy and I was highly social.  I felt better when I took my Tram – even though as time passed, I had to increase my dose to get the same effects I used to get.”

But no!  That is NOT what you are saying.  Most of you are saying that you LIKE being able to feel again.  To feel normal without the use of this painkiller/tricyclic antidepressant-addictive-garbage-pill.  THAT, my dear friends, is what is keeping me from listening to those Trama-voices.  The hope that at Day 8 or 9 or 22 -  that something magical will happen – a “miracle” as Fred has shared.  The miracle of waking up and realizing that this drug has STOLEN your life – not enhanced it!  I want to experience that miracle and you will be the first to know when it happens.

Day 2 done!  Day 3 – Bring it on!!!!

Sincerely with love and hope,
KC67


701000 tn?1231964233
by 1113, Feb 10, 2009
hi all......

been awhile sense i posted last.  my wife and i have been trying to sell our house (which we have) and move into a new home.  We are moving at the end of the month and my goal is to completly be off a tramadol by then.  I am still around 1 pill a day.  i have had a couple of days where i took 2 or 3, but for the most part i am staying steady.  

i think that a change in environment is going to be a big help.  oh well.    i am moving on to 0.  i will get there soon.  i wanted to be there by now, but i haven't pulled the trigger.  The clock is ticking though and the time is coming where i have to do what i have to do.

Avatar universal
by linlou52, Feb 10, 2009
Love your humor.  I'm holding you in my thoughts.  I'm on day 15 off tramadol (4 years/many pills) and 7 days off suboxone.  (Yeah, the old doc said it was " a very benign medication") I thought I was going to feel better by now--that's what the DOC said!  Croc.  I have got to function for my children--plus our home is in foreclosure....Just tried acupuncture and herbs the past 2 days.  Maybe it'll help.  Love to you.  Linda

Avatar universal
by frankm12, Feb 10, 2009
Hi to all!! -T +95 hrs. I am MUCH better already. I could hardly sleep again the 3rd night, and finally at about 3 am (on the couch again by myself, had to let the wife sleep) I was out until about 7am when my big german shephard gace my face a big, wet lick. Wow, what a way to awaken from the first real sleep I've had in 3 days!! But you know what, it made me HAPPY! The amazing and horrible effect of this drug Tramadol is that it really numbs out an individual to the important realities around them, while the individuals (we) think everything is better than ever!! What a LIE!!!! At about 830am I laid back down in bed and slept till 1pm, 4 1/2 hours, yet it felt like days!! I am still withdrawing, still melancholy and sad, especially today when I thought about my Moms' death last Feb. 18 again, but you know what, I let it out and cried and cried and told her how much I missed her, and begged the lord to take care of her in heaven. It felt so good afterwards , another healing step perhaps??? I believe so. I know , and I mean KNOW , I will never ingest this poison again unless unconscious and someone forces it inside of me. Terrible stuff, terrible. But I'm coming down the mountain, feeling better with each passing hour, and want to again let all of you, especially EmilyPost, know how much of a blessing it is to have found this place to share our miserable experience with this poison.  

KC67- HANG IN THERE!!!! KEEP GOING!!!! It does get better every day!! You WILL MAKE IT AND FEEL BETTER THAN EVER!!!!! The keyword there being FEEL!!! Not being numbed by Tramadol, but FEEL like a human. You will make it.

EmilyPost- One word for you, THANKS!!! Thanks for starting this so I could find it. So that others can find it. Think about this, in the next few months, how many people will this have helped save?? Years? You get the drift, you are a blessing along with everybody else on here. God Bless you All!!!

Avatar universal
by marie50, Feb 10, 2009
I am impressed. Thank you all for the help. Even those that I can't remember by the time I get to the bottom of the page. Beats the helll out of getting to the bottom of the pill bottle.

Good luck. Keep on keepin' on.

689267 tn?1235245349
by suzipen, Feb 10, 2009
Hi everyone,
and especially Emily.
I want you to know that I hope you know you are in my thoughts and prayers. You are the backbone of this wonderous place, and I think sometimes we forget about what YOU are going thru.  You are tapering right now. I am not familiar with klonopin. (very familiar with ativan tho). You are probaby going thru he77, and you arent even posting about it. In detail.
I hope you are not afraid to let us know you are suffering.
I hope I am not out of line...........I just worry about you, like you worry about us.
Love, suzi


667826 tn?1233726740
by Organica, Feb 10, 2009
Emily.. thank you so much for the last post (and everything, of course). I found it really interesting on a very personal level, as my father also died at 51, from alchoholic cirrhosis, and I too, have a lot of trouble with alchohol.. at one stage I was right into it, but it had a terrible effect on me.. Now it just makes me really ill.. Does that happen to children of alchoholics, I wonder?
And we do tend to neglect to give you support.... loads of accolades, but no 'how are you goings?'  Maybe a case of 'who cares for the carers'?
So I, like Suzipen, hope you would let us know if you are battling at all..  
love and strength,
Sue


Avatar universal
by ultraumatized, Feb 11, 2009
thank you emily & everyone else who replied to my slip...i did beat myself up over it for awhile, but i feel a little better now.  it's been a very stressful couple of weeks for me...i had a financial disaster, lost an educational opportunity & then found that a friend committed suicide over the weekend...dealing with everything has been hard, but i have surprisingly snapped back much quicker than i could have ever expected, i don't think i would have done that if i were still continually taking trams.  everyday i have thoughts of going to the clinic...getting an rx for something...anything...but i keep pushing to avoid those feelings & move on without that kind of "help".  

reading the struggles of everyone here...newcomers & veterans...helps keep things in perspective for me.  

best of luck to everyone on this journey.

419772 tn?1266240939
by roddy132, Feb 11, 2009
Hey Guys
              Just had to say that i feel privileged to be amongst such caring, genuine and beautiful people as there are on this forum. Each and  everyone of you is an inspiration to the others

Take Care Rod.  

738790 tn?1377724594
by KC67, Feb 11, 2009
Day 3 - Cold Turkey – Feb. 11, 2009

It has now been over 72 hours since my last dose of Tram.
Restless legs – check!
Severe anxiety & depression – Yes!  Almost unbearable!
Sleep deprivation – Check!  -up and wide awake about 4 separate times.  
Intestinal discomfort – check!
Sneezing – check!
Zero appetite – check!
Dark circles under my eyes and pale, sickly skin tone – Yes!
Anxiously awaiting to be DONE with this withdrawal – YES ! YES! a million times YES!    It *****!

I honestly don’t know how I did it, but I MADE myself get out and exercise both today and yesterday.  It was very difficult, but I actually felt some endorphins and serotonin floating around in my brain afterwards and it felt nice.  I do NOT enjoy exercise one bit, but I do it because I truly do feel a difference in my brain afterwards.   I took my sublingual B12 (thanks Emily) and my sublingual GABA (thanks Fireman) and I believe it does give a bit of a boost of energy.  I don’t take them at night though, because I feel like they inhibit sleep.

Do I miss Tramadol?  Yes and no.  Yes, because I have a deep fear that I won’t be as energetic and fun and social as I was on the Tram and that my pain will return.  I have been on this drug for 3+ years (with increasing daily doses for the past year) at about 8 or 9- 50mg. pills per day.  I started on 2-50mg pills per day but it didn’t take long for me to realize that they weren’t working anymore and I found myself increasing my dose.  

“No” because I can remember (just barely) a time PRE-Tramadol, where I was a fun person – enjoyed life – had lots of energy, etc… I had a great relationship with my church and family.  I didn’t want to hide (as Emily mentioned in a previous post) when someone knocked on the door or the phone rings.  Isn’t that a weird side effect of this drug???  I actually DO want to hide when the doorbell rings or I get startled and annoyed when the phone rings and don’t want to answer it.   I have great hope that the “old” me is still there somewhere and that the Trama-voices are BEGGING me non-stop to take more because they want me to believe that  I NEED them to function.

Emily – my heart jumped when I saw your post.  It is always so great to pull up your journal and see that you have recently posted!  You are somewhat of a celebrity to me.  You are a lifesaver, a pioneer, and I just think about how many people in the FUTURE that will just happen to come upon your posts and decide that they CAN do this and be better for it in the end.   Another life SAVED.
A Tri-cyclic antidepressant huh?  I will try to do some research on it.  I too suffer more from anxiety than depression so I think this Tri-cyclic antidepressant is kicking my butt right now.  I agree with you that people with anxiety (vs. depression – even though I have been told they go hand in hand) should be very careful with serotonin reuptake inhibitors.  I have tried every antidepressant available and none have helped me.  Actually I found that I felt MORE anxious on them.  So that would explain why I am struggling so much emotionally from withdrawal of Tram. – my brain has been tampered with and my opiate receptors are not happy AT ALL.
Thanks for continuing to post and feel free to share your Klonopin struggles.  I will eventually have to get off Xanax, but right now, one thing at a time.

Thanks Frankm, Fred, and all of you others who continue to send me virtual hugs and good thoughts.  Fred, I believe in the “peace that passes understanding” and although I don’t feel it all the time, I have experienced it firsthand.

To all -  I hope you don’t mind my lengthy and frequent posts.  I am just so grateful that I have a place to go to distract me and allow me to “let loose”.  It also makes me feel good to know that if I can do this, anyone can do this and I would love to be able to help anyone struggling with this addictive and potent drug.  I know it sounds like I am strong, but deep down I have fear.  Yes, I am determined to beat this, but sometimes when I let my brain think about the future, it is difficult.  So I am just taking one minute…heck, one second at a time.  As Fred has promised, the “miracle” will come!

Day 3 down….Day 4, BRING IT ON!!!!

Sincerely with hope and love,
KC67


Avatar universal
by frankm12, Feb 11, 2009
Hi to all, -T +116 hrs. I guess I will have to go on to the "day" time referral soon, since counting the hours is becoming a bit too complex for my limited gray matter, ha ha. I can not describe how much better I feel now, at now the end of the 5th day off of the patented "RAT POOH". I still couldn't sleep worth a lick last night, and ended up on the couch again. I'd lay down, toss about for 20 minutes or so, and then get up and walk around. Finally at about 530am I fell to sleep until 7am, when my big German Shephard licked my face again! This part of the withdrawals has been the worst part for me, almost literally driving me nutso, almost to the point of clicking the "order now" button and impatiently waiting for the FedEx truck to pull up to deliver the ****!! But NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!! That thought only lasted for about 5 minutes, why would I have gone through all this, these 4 miserable days and getting better every minute, only to jump back on the Tramatrain?? And then have to start over?? I thought of all of you and the posts I have read, and have to tell you it helped me resist the devil. Thank you all again.

KC67- Your checklist brought a bout of much needed laughter to me, you have  great writing skills. I went through all of these things as well, and I was only on this **** for 10 months, though I did six 50mg pills 4 times daily, with another 2-3 50 mg pills tossed in between doses at times for "good measure". I am an addict. You are doing wonderful, and you will see day 4 will be better. You are also coming down the detox mountain, the hard part is OVER,REALLY!!!!

Fred- Thanks for your input and encouragement, I WILL make it through this. The hard part is over. You know, the funny thing is that Pre-Tramadol I enjoyed a good beer with buddies usually one night a week. Once I got on Tramadol, I didn't even enjoy beer anymore. I believe the evening of day 7 I will enjoy a good  hefe-weizen!! Cheers to all!! :) .

Again to everyone, suziepen,emergee,organica,roddy,ultraum and everyone I didn't mention-Thanks for all your love and kindness in helping me and all newcomers kick this evil habit. IT IS AN EVIL DRUG. Like Fred said (I think it was Fred) , when the long-term tally of Tramadol side-effects comes in, there will be some shocking surprises, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were taken off the market, and we may see a commercial on Television with an Attorney stating"If you or a loved one have ever been prescribed Tramadol, call the Law Offices of blah blah blah."Let's keep this going and going and continue to help the newbies coming on here, because I AM HERE TO TELL YOU , YOU ALL HAVE HELPED ME IN WAYS YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND, and I want to again THANK YOU. I will continue to come on and post and check up on all. Again, God Bless and I hope for all to have a great day!!!!!



714730 tn?1249682539
by HOPEreturns, Feb 11, 2009
Hello everyone!

I have caught up on reading the posts.  This forum has absolutely attracted to most special, amazing, and caring individuals.  I love the support received in this room!  All of you that are newly coming off Tramadol.  My heart is going out to you!  

Missy,

Honey.... you have had some awful situations that you have had to endure!  I truly believe that by you getting off of the Trams... you will be able to continue to emotionally grieve and begin to heal.  I know that you must feel that you have a long road ahead.  I am glad you feel the comfort that these wonderful people in here are giving to you!.  I want to encourage and invite you to express whatever you are feeling if you feel up to it!  WE ARE HERE FOR YOU!!  I havent nearly had to deal with the tragedies that you have had, but I too have felt a great load has been lifted since joining this group!  You are in my prayers constantly!

Hi Suzi,  I hope school is treating you well!  Keep up the good work!

Hello to everyone else!!!  I have missed talking with you all.  Have a few days off. I return back to work Friday.  

Someone mentioned about starting to enjoy life and just laughing after tramadol.  As most of you know, I am still tapering, but I am actually enjoying my life.  I feel like I am living in each moment know.  I laugh and finally realize that I don't have to be that "peppy" little person around other people.  I was really worried that getting off of the Trams would take away my "good" moods.  Emily and Fred had both told me that this part of me would not go away.  I am gonna have to admit.... I wasnt so sure if this was gonna be the case with ME.  They were right.  I am finally waking up in the mornings and not feeling like I have a hangover with a bad case of sweating!  I can remember waking up and needing my am dose of pills right away.  I would have to soak in a warm tub just to get moving.  I couldnt really begin having interaction with people until a few hours later.  NOW..... I actually wake up, not feeling exhausted.  I don't feel like I have the flu when I awake.  I am ready to hit the ground running. (well not running, but you all get my point!)  I used to HAVE to take at least a 2 hr nap each day ( in the middle of the day).  I havnt taken a nap in two months!  It feels wonderful!

OKAY!! I will say bye for now.  Will talk to you all soon!
HUGS and SMILES!
Love Hope


547573 tn?1234659310
by Jikan, Feb 11, 2009
Emily,

I applaud you conviction to eliminating Tramadol from your life. I was on Tramadol for chronic pain for many years and yes, it does have a negative effect on most aspects of your life.

I also contend, however, that there is not as reason why you should live your life in chronic pain. Although I don't know your particular circumstances, I have found alternatives to Tramadol which have been very effective in controlling my pain without major side effects, even though they are powerful opiates.

The choice is obviously yours, but I encourage you to seek whatever works for you so that you can achieve the best quality of life for you, whether it be medical treatments, holistic treatments, or some other alternative.

Depending on the nature of your pain, I have found accupuncture to be a great alternative to drugs as is daily meditation.

Good luck to you and let us know how you fare.

Michael(Jikan)

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Feb 11, 2009
KC and Frankm,  Yay! Your determination amazes me.

I am pretty certain tht the MIRACLE has already taken place for you guys.  Because anyone who looks this drug square in the eyes, admits  that their best thinking and strongest efforts to date has not  allowed them to break free, yet at the same time been able to grab hold of POSSIBILITY  that this time will be different HAS discovered the miracle.  

Frankm,  Yeah, you better switch from hours to days about now.  Too funny!  

Sweet dreams to all ( I hope),

Fred

Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Feb 12, 2009
Tramadol Warriors- excuse this post, IT'S NON-TRAM RELATED

Emily,  It's coming together for me..something you said in you last post...and an irrational fear I have had for 364 days now.  You mentioned that your dad died right before  turning 51 of pancreatic cancer.  Strange, but my dad (not much of a drinker, that I know of) died of panceratic cancer a few weeks before he turned 51 too.  Some times, I still wish he was around to share things with or seek his advice.  I never really knew him as an adult and I suspect it was the same for you.

I turned 50 about a year ago and I have had an irrational fear that I too would die before reaching my 51st birthday.  I know it sounds crazy.  Everyone around me knows I have had to keep beating down this irrational fear all year long about not making  it to my 51st birthday.  

The good news is that it's 10:30 p.m. PST and in an hour and 1/2, I'll turn 51.   And yes,  the irrational fear will be over..  Who knows, I may  JUST LIVE FOREVER NOW!

757932 tn?1233980903
by Missyjp, Feb 12, 2009

Fred:  Happy 51st Birthday!  You have made it to your 51st birthday, and now you can put your fear to bed.  I am looking forward to more of your posts as they give me hope and encouragement.  So don't even think about dying!  

Everyone:  I have been taking 4 pills less than my usual dose for the last 3 days.  When I joined this forum I thought that I was only taking about 10 to 12 pills a day, however, for 1 day I kept track of the number of pills I was taking and was shocked when the total was up to 20.  I just cannot believe that I take that much tramadol but it does make sense when I think of the brain fog I have been in.  I probably had my blinders on because I did not want to admit that I was taking so much tramadol.  Oh well, I guess it will take me longer to taper down than I had anticipated, but being part of this community is giving me the strength to keep going.  I have been reading all of the previous posts and am learning so much about withdrawal, courage and hope.  I know that 4 pills less a day is not really a major amount but I do feel minor withdrawals.  When I am feeling bad and tempted to take an extra dose, I just go to my computer and I start reading the previous posts.  I am so impressed by the strength that all of you have shown during your withdrawals, and that you have taken the time to help others in their battle.      

Rod:  I wanted to thank you for sharing your beautiful poem.  It was so moving and beautiful that it brought tears to my eyes.  I too hope to look in the mirror someday and see Missy looking back at me and not this stranger that I have become.  I also wanted to get your input on how many days I should take my reduced dosage of 16 before reducing my dosage further?  I do not feel strong enough to quit C/T and I want a gradual reduction so I don't become tempted.  Can you give me some insight into this?  

Michelle:  I really appreciate your posts regarding vitamins and natural remedies we can take while withdrawing from tramadol.  I want to do everything I can to get my brain back to normal functioning but I do not know much about vitamins and other cures.  Where can I get B-12 sublingual vitamins and how much should I take a day?  Also, I have been told not to take St. Johns Wort while on tramadol so I would like to know if there are any other natural remedies for depression.  I normally take a one a day vitamin for women and calcium with vitamin D.  Do you know how high a dose of vitamin D I can take without it doing harm to me?    Thank you so much for your input.  

Kelly:  Have you started with your 15 pills a day dose yet?  I want to move on to 15 or 14 pills a day but wasn't sure how long to stay at the 16 dosage.  I have asked Rod for guidance with this since he has been tapering off of tramadol for 4 months and has been very successful at it.  I really do not want to sabotage myself by reducing to quickly.  We are both at the same place with the number of pills we take a day, and I know that with the help of all the wonderful people in this community we will both beat this addiction.  

Good Night Everybody and continue to stay strong.

Missy



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by pwillow1, Feb 12, 2009
I'm glad I found this forum.

I've been taking tramadol 400 mg/day, usually in one dose.  This has been going on for about 8 years.  I purchase it online, either through one of those websites where they will get a physician to write you a prescription, or from overseas (Thailand).

I initially started taking it for back pain.  And now I take it because I feel I can't stop taking it.  I do have all over muscle aches and joint pains, but I'm now wondering (after what I've read here) if that's not caused by the tramadol.  (The pain disappears when I take tramadol.)  

When I have tried to discontinue the tramadol abruptly, I get restless legs and a weird feeling in my muscles and under my skin that keeps me awake.  I feel very restless.  

I need to taper down the amount I take until I'm taking no more pills, but does anyone here have a good schedule for just how to do that?  Decrease by 50 mg/week until I'm off it completely?  I would like to minimize symptoms if at all possible.  



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by dontbelieve, Feb 12, 2009
wow i have been reading these posts and am 3 days myself cold turkey and man it *****....A direct quote from my doctors..not just one but 2 seperate doctors one a pain management specialist...." Tramidol/ultram is not habit forming and is not addictive therefore you are not going through withdrawls....." no joke two seperate doctors same exact speech in the past 3 weeks.

I am a 34yr old truck driver. I am happily married and expecting my first child in april...a boy. SO that makes my wonderful wife 7 months now and she started having contractions too early so the doctors have put her on bed rest and perscribed her a med to stop the contractions. And I since monday have been worthless to help her with daily things like cooking, or anything....i havent slept since monday morning...and i have tingles and like little shocks running through me like electricity...once my foot stops tingling it runs up to my head not missing any body part...

I have been taking ultram 50mg 5-6 tabs 3 times a day for about 11 months now. Well i take that back...i started with 2 3 times a day and have increased progressively to 5-6 3 times a day. I have " the neck of a 70 yr old man..." according to my doctor. For 5 yrs previous to ultram my different specialists and doctors 9 in total have keep me on norco and vicodin (switching back and forth not at the same time) and motrin 800mg. I have been on numerous muscle relaxers, methadose, lortab, darvocet....just about everything invented. I had to finally switch to ultram due to DOT drug tests which at the time i was told this is non narcotic non habit forming and no addictive qualities at all. I not knowing any better believed my doctor and continued driving with more pain but i needed a paycheck. Of course every single doctor tells me the same thing, you need to quit driving and find a new job....um do doctors watch the news! I always want to smack them upside the head and say well since there are no other jobs perhaps i will become a neck specialist since it seems like they just guess anyway....and i dont have much experience in anything else. My wife usually holds me back pretty well and now i just look at her and laugh when they suggest i just switch jobs.

Recently i went to a great doctor...he actually seems to be looking for a solution to the problem rather than saying " well i just dont know...you have me stumped here..." i have heard that from more than one doctor....but this one finally took a mri and found the problem TADA! with much begging from me and my wife. We have been trying to get a mri done for the last 3 years...and TADA now they took one and they know whats wrong. So i explained to this doctor i am taking ultram and motrin and would like to get off both of them with my new son on the way. Heres the kicker. He has 3 patients currently on ultram that are going to court to get their jobs back because they FAILED THE DOT DRUG TEST BECAUSE OF ULTRAM...for those of you not familiar with DOT drug tests they are DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION tests governmently regulated and random for any driver with a class B or higher license. most companies will not hire someone who has failed a dot or two. UPS for one has a very strict policy about drug tests...one of the drivers/patients works for them...

Now with some " luck" for lack of better term not really luck at all...I was laid off 3 days after i heard this news and never had to take a DOT during taking ultram...but my primary doctor said it was fine...he knew why i switched from norco that worked to ultram that kinda worked when it wanted too...


I know this was a long story and i probably could have just said hey dont take ultram while driving a commercial vehicle you will fail your drug test...but my story seemed tofit in with alot of yours in that the doctors dont tell you everything and the dont know alot of the truths about these meds...the drug reps tell them they are safe and with little or no research into it the doctors perscribe it....

Bottom line...have you ever wondered why they call a doctors office a PRACTICE....the term practicing medicine seems to be pretty popular...i used to practice for football...i practiced my boxing stance and moves for years....but alas i never got good enough to be the next probowl player or the next mohammad ali....or even close...but i practiced alot...so next time you go to a doctor remember they are practicing medicine...some will practice and be the next great thing and many many others will practice and never make the cut......





762277 tn?1242888894
by dontbelieve, Feb 12, 2009
ok KC

i just went back and reread a couple of your posts...and damn if you werent writing whats in my head... I have so many friends on pain meds that just one call can get me pills in a few minutes...and in the past when i have run out hell 3 weeks ago...its been so easy to get....the difference now is i dont want it...i am thinking the same thing...my body is ridding itself of all this evil **** that is in me now...i apologised to my wife tonight for feeling the way i do....its my own fault. I have never ever let something take control of me....until my neck pain i never took asprin...my mother lost us when i was 6 to herion. My older brother and i were lucky enough to be adopted by a family member on my real dads side...my dad had already passed when i was 2. He was younger than i am now only 29. He was taking meds for seizures and depending on what side of the story or family member you believe either he suddenly stopped taking them or my mother took them and tried to sell them for her own addiction. So i have been very afraid of pills and I am 6'3 and about 230 and i pass out when i see a syringe needle...i have to wear my big boy hat ( cowboy hat ) to go get a shot but i am getting better at that. I dont know how i will do when my wife gets that epidural needle in 2 more months but hey i wll be in the hospital anyway so who cares if i pass out....

I feel like i have been taking pills for so long....i would just rather deal with the pain than put more chemicals into my body but I did not realize walking away from the pills would be this hard either....

about 4 yrs ago before i met my wife i had a very scary episode and i thought i was dying for sure....maybe this will help someone else....

i used to work for a government lab ....guess what one...i was at work one day and had just gotten out of a bad 7 year relationship with a girl named KC.lol....i was on Soma and Vicodin at the time...apparently that day my body said enough and i had a seizure during a presentation...i was giving the presentation to a group of about 16 people...as i was talking from what i am told i do not remember any of this i started to slurr my words real bad and my head hit the table...i was 30...they called  911 and i was taken by ambulance to the nearest hospital only to be told to eat a good breakfast before i go to work....i knew what had happened even if everyone else wanted to look the other way...i overdosed on my meds...the very next day i didnt take any meds...i just freaked out...and i had to be back to work in my mind to show everyone i was ok and could still do my job....it was at 5pm i was driving home i had made it all day without any of my meds....when i noticed my gas pedal foot going numb...totally numb no feeling. by the time i got home i couldnt walk at all...and shortly after that i could barely speak...my whole body went numb...head to toes...my adoptive parents lived only 4 houses down from me....it took me 3 hours to crawl through the mud to thier house which was the last place i wanted to go for help....they didnt even know i was taking meds. I finally got in the door and my mom asked me what was wrong...but i couldnt tell her not in english at least...they finally made out the word hospital and took me right away...i felt so incredibly helpless and dumb...we are country people i had never taken asprin before the pain in my neck began and at this point the doctors had no idea what was causing it...they just gave me pills to make the pain go away....after 4 hours at the hospital i finally came back to myself...they gave me valium and rehydrated me and gave me my regular pain med dose...thats how my family found out i was taking meds. Very embarassing to me. Since then i have had no episodes similar to that...but i took my meds the correct way for a while increasing the dose until they would have to switch me to something else....and yeah it worked for a while but when i ran out...god help anyone in my way that day...anyone....i got into screaming matchs with the nurse a few times trying to get early refills...I had to have them. I have never been addicted to anything else...i drank alot of beer but when it was time i walked away from it and never regreted it for a minute, i tried weed it gave me a headache and i never did it again...my brother on the other hand....every drug he could get....ruined his 30's. I finally had a good thing happen to me...

I went to the doctor and said help...he said ok lets admit you to the hospital for some tests...little did i know he was trying to detox me...4 days i was in the hospital waiting to be told to go home...the good thing that happened that day was my doctor quit...he just left his practice and moved out of state without telling anyone...i only found out when i called his office from a hospital bed to tell him i wanted to go home....they told me he quit. Now normally thats not a good thing but for me it meant he wasnt supplying me with endless amounts of pain meds anymore...i hit bottom after that....i lost my job, my truck, a couple girlfriends and respect from my parents....but i pulled out of it...luckily i owned my house outright so i had a place to live....i kicked every pain med i ever took slowly...and before long met my wife....we have been married 2 years last december and she is great.

The problem came back really bad after a while my neck was killing me....my wife told me to go see a doctor and after about 5 months i finally agreed but i wanted a solution doctor not a pill supplier...well he turned out to be both....and before i knew it i was right back on the vicoden....i switched to the ultram/tramidol based on the pure fact that he told me this was a non narcotic drug and was not addictive...no withdrawls when you get off of it and most of all i could still go to work and pass my drug tests on it...


It sounded great!!! Soon after starting it i realized it didnt help as much as the other narcotic pain meds did so i keep increasing my dose until it got to where i was 3 days ago...5/6 pills 3 times a day....now my doctor was perscribing this amount...he should not have been shocked i was taking this much....but guess what...i ran out one day and instead of 240 pills my usual 2 week supply he gave me 90...so when i called to ask why the change he said he didnt know but to call back his nurse in a week once she got off vacation....A WEEK! i said i will be out of this in 5 days!...so of course all the sudden he wanted to know why i was taking so many pills....that he had been giving me for the last 10 months....oh no he said you cant take that many the most you can take is 2 every  6 hours....so i told him you cant expect me to drop from 5 to 2 all the sudden. and thats when he told me there were no reported withdrawl symptoms at all from tis med so it should be really smooth...

SO here i sit typing out of meds but ok with that....if i would have known about the withdrawls before i never would have taken it in the first place and especially if i knew it was an anti depressant.....

what makes me ok with the fact that i am out of meds and going through this withdrawl hell??....my wife and the baby in her belly....but the main reason i am okay with the way i feel right now...well its simple..i have to do something for me...i need to know that i am strong enough to do this and not call a pill giving friend and take the easy way out...then i will know i can be a good dad.


You see I dont want to be my sons story of how his dad died at the age of 34....or anytime soon. I want to be out there showing my kids how to fish and start grandpas tractors with out the key and why it is that NASCAR is fun even though they only make left turns....and why i still love the OAKLAND RAIDERS after 5 terrible seasons...I want to be his dad.....not his drug addicted dad hes afraid to bring friends around...not even the dad who cant play ball today because hes gotta find out how to get his perscription filled early. I just want to be dad...the strange old guy who needs his big boy hat to get a shot....but will knock you out for laughin about it.....

Yeah right now i am going through hell...i havent slept for 2 1/2 days not a wink....and i cant stop moving my feet..or my hands...and those damn tingling sensations and electricity from my head to toes is annoying as hell....hell i have sneezed out 3 pills just writing this...not literally but it sure has felt like it...and i will continue to yawn and not sleep and force myself to eat only to be in the restroom in 5 minutes just to say i did it....

all of your stories have been a real inspiration to me and i want to thank all of you for that...and i know for a first time poster this is along *** message....but i just needed to write it...and im not done...

i want to share something else with you all that keeps me going....

I have 4 friends i have known since i was 5 years old...we all still hang out and we are all still good friends to this day.
A few years back one of them was diagnosed with brain and skin cancer...at 29 yrs. old. He has 2 kids.. my god kids...and a beautiful wife. They dont have much and we all pitch in what we can...but sometimes just to let him know we are there is enough. After 6 months of driving to LA for kemo...he beat that cancer...he was given a clean bill of health and we were all real happy to see him putting his weight back on...however 2 weeks ago during a follow up they found a tumor in his brain. As you can imagine it devistated us...but i took it real hard because i dont live as close anymore and i cant just pop in everyday to say howdy and make sure things are still going ok. Last week he had brain surgery and i was at another hospital with my wife so I didnt even know he went under the knife until the next day...i am happy to tell you all they were sucessful in removing it...and he sent me a text message today to ask how i was doing...i was blown away...and i sent him one back to ask how he was doing and he said hes just taking it one day at a time....

I have found a positive in this situation....besides the obvious fact hes alive and going to be there for his kids...

and maybe it will help some of you struggling like me to get off these pills....

NO MATTER WHAT I GO THROUGH TODAY, OR TOMORROW IF HE CAN MAKE IT THROUGH ALL THAT I CAN MAKE IT THROUGH THIS one day at a time... It almost makes me feel silly for even feeling bad about myself...


Again i want to thank you all for your stories and just seeing your day to day progress and although it doesnt look like its going to be a fun or easy road ahead....i can do it and so can all of you...just find that inspiration maybe that friend who is suffering too...it could be that movie that reminds you of you....or just a song in your head....whatever it is use it....and we will all get through this one day at a time....



Avatar universal
by frankm12, Feb 12, 2009
Hi all, -T +Day #6. At the bottom of Detox Mountain!!!!!! Yayyyyyy!!!!! I slept for 8 consecutive hours last night in BED WITH MY WIFE!!!!!!!!! I feel ,(Keyword: FEEL) almost normal, the way I did before jumping on the Trama-train to hades. I would say about 90%, and know that tommorrow, day 7, will be even better. Thank You all in this forum again, you have been such a major help.

pwill and dontbelieve, WELCOME! You are, I assure you, among some of the best human beings in the world. You will receive kindness, love, and understanding here from people who are or have been on the Trama-train to hades. You will not be judged, dissected, or ridiculed in any way. This Tramadol is some wicked stuff, and most Doctors DO NOT completely understand its' long term side effects because as Fred has pointed out, this drug is relatively new, only having been around for 14 years. The long term results will be coming in and they won't all be good, I assure you. Write in and share, complain, scream, whatever!!! I have found it to be a MAJOR help. I can't tell you how much kindness and love I have received from all the good folks here. You will too.

dontbelieve- You are doing great my man, especially with all that is going on in your life. Hang in there, after day 3 it gets better MUCH quicker. Congratulations on your Fatherhood. I believe you are doing an honorable job in kicking the Tramadol in order to be better for your family and yourself. As everyone in here knows, Tramadol slowly turns one into a numb zombie incognizant of the realities forming around them, as rock bottom gets closer and closer. I had about the same habit as you, though mine through self-medication. 300-400 mg four times a day.I went cold turkey with about 100 50mg hell pills left. That was the only way for me, for some people, the tapering process is better. I just knew that if I tried the taper, I'd end up popping 6-8 of the 50mg boogers at a time again. You have heard of people failing their DOT test from Ultram?? From my understanding they do not test for this substance, although they should, and maybe are beginning to. The ironic thing is that I am a former Truck Driver that is about to go back out on the road, so I hope that after about 15 days of cessation I test negative. I believe I should, though I will do some research on the matter.

Well, I must go for now, I wish strength, courage, love and kindness to everyone here, and remember no matter how bad the withdrawals are now, every day will get better, you can make it!!!!!!!

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by kevzx81, Feb 12, 2009
Hi all, Its been a week since I posted as I've been feeling so negative I havent wanted to trust myself with the keyboard!
Im 30 days free today for which I should be happy but truth is things have got on top of me lately. Poor appetite,mild anxiety and upset stomach are theme of the week but its money worries that have taken centre stage now. Also, without pain meds my back is making life very difficult.

Its been truly shocking to watch the room fill up with so many new names and faces this last week.Usually when I read others' posts it helps me keep perspective and boosts my morale but lately its been making me angry, as like others here I am now left counting the financial cost of this escapade. Xmas is a high earnings time for me, or should be, so w/d couldnt have come at a worse time for me. Im now left with no effective pain meds and no realistic hope of getting any, no transport, very little work and of course its tax time!!! YES THATS RIGHT my govt wants MY money to pay the NHS for poisoning me!!!

Now I'm over the worst of w/d I find I am even angrier. Im picturing the place the doc parks his car as I notice the half a tin of green gloss paint under the sink. And that takes me back to why I havent posted lately: I'm settling out of court...

No surprise if this gets deleted.


Avatar universal
by FinallyFred, Feb 12, 2009
Kev,  It's so nice to hear from you.  You illustrate that good people can have BAD days - and it sounds like you have had a string of them lately.  I don't pretend to know the solution to your current difficulties, but we both know that resuming the trams isn't one of the solutions.  I seriously don't think that anyone (Emily) would delte your heartfelt post.  We are called to sober days - but nobody here said they will all be easy.  And I seriously doubt that any one of us here can claim a constant chain of "happy" days, on or off this terrible drug.

Part of the reason I continued taking tram as long as I did was to numb myself from the world wizzing by.  Now I FEEL that world as it wizzes by.  Sometimes the world hits me smack in the face too and it scares me.  But at least we CAN feel it Kev.  

I am saying a little prayer that things in your world lighten up for you.  I care about how you are doing and I wish I could flip a switch and make things better.  
**************
One of the things I  really love about this room is that there is a TON of traffic through here.  And people like Frankm are willing and able to say what I would have liked to say to the REALLY new people, "pwill" and "don'tbelieve".   So I'll just say, amen to what Frankm said.

Missy, others here will be able to respond to your inquiry about how best to taper.  Again, the really great thing about this room is that so many can and do contribute.  Wishing you happiness & wellness this day.

Fred

Avatar universal
by frankm12, Feb 12, 2009
dontbelieve- hey , you must be a real football fan if you still love your Rayyydahhhss after the last few years. They do have a great core of young talent, and old Al made a good decision in keeping Cable as the Head Coach instead of bringing in some new, young, 'hotshot' coach. You guys are only a player or two away from being really good again, and I have a proposition for you, tell me what you think. For Oaklands 2nd and 4th round picks in this years NFL Draft, "my" team will trade you a great WR that you need, the incomparable Terrell Owens!! Sound like a deal to you?? LOL.

On a serious note, HANG IN THERE MAN, you are VERY CLOSE to coming down what I like to call detox mountain. I could not sleep worth a doggone for 4 nights in a row(about 12 hours or so total during those 4 days), but last night I slept a resounding 8 hours SOLID in MY OWN BED(not the couch!!) with MY WIFE!!! Today is day 6 for me, and I feel 10,000 times better than on day 3. Seriously my friend, THE HARDEST PART IS OVER!!!!! Days 3 and 4 will be MUCH EASIER than days 1 and 2, and you'll see that by day 5 you will begin to feel like a NEW MAN, because you WILL be becoming a NEW MAN, a CLEAN ,FEELING HUMAN again that WILL BE THERE FOR HIS KIDS AND BE A GREAT FATHER!!! KEEP GOING!!!! DON'T GIVE IN NOW!!!! I'M TELLING YOU, YOU ARE ALMOST THERE!!! God Bless you and all others here, once again!!!

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by EmilyPost, Feb 12, 2009
Hey Tramadol Warrors ...

Move on over to ths thread ...

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/61733

We'll contnue our diatribes here

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/61733

Come on over ... Everyone hold hands ....

Love and Healing,
Emly

419772 tn?1266240939
by roddy132, Feb 12, 2009
Hi Missy I can only say what has worked for me whilst tapering. I feel one of the most important things is not to be in too much of a hurry.  Try reducing your intake by 25ms a week or even two weeks, that gives you brain time to adjust to the drug reduction.  There where times when i took two steps forward and one step back ie went back up by 25mgs, thats when you need to be really disciplined  and get back on track the next day. There are going to be days where you may fall back but please dont beat yourself up because of it ok!!! just start again.and be patient SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE !!!!!!!!

You CAN DO IT you can beat this drug and be yourself again i promise. You have the strength inside you to be free of this drug.and when you are free the real you will again surface and boy thats going to be a great reunion.

Keep the fable of the tortoise and the hare in your mind always and keep saying it to yourself,
SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE,  SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE

There are some wonderful people on here who will help you win that race. The finishing tape is in your sights Go for it

Take Care and keep posting Rod

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Feb 12, 2009
We'll contnue our diatribes here

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/61733


(click on that link to take you to the new thread ...)

Avatar universal
by lostintramnation, Jun 06, 2011
On Day 21 and I fell almost normal. That feeling is hard for me to remember after 6 1/2 years on tramadol, but it is returning.

Saturday I did some marine hydrotherapy. No, not high jinks with uniformed service people, I went swimming in the OCEAN for a full hour. Got to that spot just outside of where the waves break, and bobbed up and down, fought the currents, dived into white water, dug my feet into the sand, dodged an orange-sized jelly fish, relived so many distant memories of my childhood at the same spot...being rescued from drowning by a lifeguard, wearing a red and white striped swimming suit and carving castles in the wet sand...

When I got out, it was like the mermaid story by HC Andersen: I felt so heavy, as if my feet wouldn't move.

Sunday we went to Costco. Then I felt a remission. For some reason, Costco does that to me. But it wasn't as bad as it was two weeks before, when I was just six days OFF tramadol,  and all I could do was buy three pieces of pizza and sit at the food tables eating it, seeing stars before my eyes. LOL.

It gets better. But I also know I am not at the end of the ordeal. I still feel like I am dragging around the weight of Jabba the Hutt, and my body is telling me to eat carbs and protein. But the sleep is getting more regular. And now and then, I feel normal enthusiasm, normal thoughts.

Peace be with you all.

Avatar universal
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Avatar universal
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