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Day 33;  Tramadol ... Cold Turkey Withdrawal

Jul 22, 2008 - 74 comments







cold turkey









Day 33 Tramadol Cold Turkey Withdrawal;

Immune System Breakdown ...

I guess when the cat is away, the mice they will play.

Last night I was alone in the house and steadily starting to believe I had a cold in the nose starting. Got rapidly worse. Searched for the Z-Pac, found the Z-Pac. Took the first dose.

Woke up this morning thinking OMG I am so tired. But I didn't feel the "I feel like crawling in a hole and dying" thing. Progress!! Got to work, assistant took one look at me and said, "You have to go home."


Yeah. Looking GOOD!

I sound like a snuffle monster. I cough I hack I sneeze. Kleenex and I? BBF's!! Best friends Forever!!

My makeup does that icky thing where I break into a cold sweat and then am freezing and then too hot ... kinda hard on yer mascara, and the eyeshadow vanishes.

I managed to get my homemade chicken soup on the stove. Quickly, before I crashed. I can tell when I can push myself thru and when I can't. When I crash, I pretty much am laid out horizontally hopefully on the sofa and not in bed! Being in bed, brings the drug thoughts up fast. Distraction techniques are best for me.

I like to watch either light funny movies or action films. The action films help me not feel as angry. Or help me feel more angry. Both of which are useful states of mind.

I was kind of expecting a complete immune system crash since all my body's energy is being used to toss Tramadol out on it's posterior! But I am just doing everything I can to try and make it so that I won't say, Get Bronchitis and then Pneumonia.  DH came home and saw me making soup. He asked why I was home so early and I replied, "I'm sick." He asked, "Is it the Tramadol? It gives you flu like symptoms, right?" (Someone has been doing research! And I replied, "Um, no this time I think it is the Tramadol causing an immune crash ... so same kinda thing. I just don't wanna get pneumonia."

So I am at home with the BIG Jumbo sized Headache. Luckily I have the cats and my nice husband til he goes off to teach. I can feel my sinuses. Which is surreal. And gross. I have the dirty grimy skin in six hours going one ... ICKY!!!

I can also feel when I exert myself too much, it's bad. Bad! Not good! SO I am going to take it easy til I need to work again tomorrow afternoon!

One thing I do think. I think now that almost everyone I know thought that there was something WRONG with me. I used to think Tramadol was helping me "keep it all together." It is only now that I see the mass amount of damage it has done. I don't think I can express how upset I am about the fact that my PAIN WAS MADE WORSE ... 1000% worse by the use of this drug. Not a single Doctor I saw (And I saw very well educated Beverly Hills Practicing Doctors) ever once warned me about the possibility of Tramadol making pain worse.

No one ever told me that the Antidepressant in it might give me Suicidal Ideation.

It's so annoying and makes me so mad!

Also I wish I could go watch Dark Knight. :(

But I'm sick. And I need to rest. So that is what I will do. The drug voices are all quiet today  AND guess what, chicken  butt? My BACK doesn't hurt and my leg barely hurts! Unbelievable. Truly unbelievable. I'm glad you know? But also ... knowing that for YEARS it has been this drug that has caused and worsened my pain ... it makes me very very very angry!! I feel like throwing an ice sculpture at Tramadol's Head!!!

Tramadol; Rat's Like Tramadol!

Let the Rats have it!

Love and healing,

Post a Comment
Avatar universal
by plamp, Jul 22, 2008
Aghhh that tramadol just won't leave you huh? haha=p. I noticed that the drug thoughts are much more prevalent in bed which is why I slept on the couch for a week its definitely weird like that. I never had the headaches or sinus problems though. It was more of my lower body that gave me hell. terrible leg pain, nausea, and the occasional bad trip to the bathroom>__<

Dark Knight, yeah go see it first chance you get. I saw it on day 4 of my w/d and I still loved it and was super engaged the whole time. Takes your mind off the tram. Remember, the hard part is getting to the movie theatre, once your there you calm down alot and are able to enjoy yourself and you feel better after. If I were you I'd go with your husband I bet he's great emotional support and makes going out alot easier despite the anxiety=].

Lastly, Day 9 for me was a breeze again. I'm like 99% normal and the only symptoms now are occasional energy drips and very brief periods of depression. I'm sure they will go away soon=]

Avatar universal
by seekingbetterdays, Jul 22, 2008
So sorry to her you're sick EmilyPost.  Take care of yourself.  Chicken soup's good for the soul and the body so good move there.  

OK ... Let's take a quick inventory just for fun Emily:  

      1.  Home,
      2.  Cats,
      3.  Chicken soup,
      4.  Understanding husband

Life is good EP!!  I know you know that -- but it's sometimes worth stating the obvious as a reminder.

I just read your comment, Emily, in response to mine on your Day 32 Journal.  I understand your being shocked at the Doctors comment.  So was I.  

I could not understand it at all until I researched a little further and found this entry in more than one manufacturer Drug Sheet:

    " At therapeutic doses withdrawal symptoms have
       been reported at a frequency of 1 in 8,000. Reports
      of dependence and abuse have been less frequent."

Given my misery during my last week of existence, this has to be at major contender for the greatest lie ever told.  

PLANCE:  Your father's response to your Tramadol addiction came to mind during this research / education.  The doctors are all reading the same trash press-release about the drug.  No wonder they don't know.

The data sheet and attachments went on to explain that a three month study was performed, but the low risk of dependency meant no long term study was conducted.


Wow,  I'm pleased to hear they believe in an exhaustive study, aren't you?  Fact is, they have no frickin' idea what this drug will do.

As far as "report of dependency" goes, it’s an automatic "pass" for the drug companies.  Not many of us can just dial up the FDA and complain openly.  

I find I am growing angrier at this as my addition symptoms linger.  I will try and control it though.  I am a researcher by nature, and also a lot on the job.  I started tramadol after extensive dental work.  Now that I know more about the 'Devil's Pill', you could pull all my teeth with a pair of mechanic's pliers and I wouldn't take the Tramadol poison.  

I am so pleased I do not crave it.  I know some do.  I am so thankful.

By the way -- the Doctor reciting the stupid "acceptable losses" comment was my first cousin which in the south means automatic immunity, even when speaking like an uninformed Idiot (captial "I" on idiot intentional).  Otherwise the outcome may not have been so good.  

I still wonder if he bought the "my friend" approach, but I must admit I just couldn't pass the opportunity as it came at me unexpectedly like a slow pitch softball.  I had to give it a go.    What made it more worthwhile to me is that he is the reason I even know the color of the Ultram (tramadol) free sample blister pack.  This made engaging in the conversation even more tempting.

Secrecy however is important and I must remember this and be careful.  The smaller the town, the greater the need for it.  I sometimes crave the anonymity of a large city.

My final thought for the day:  "Even in withdrawal, life is still worth it."   Withdrawal or not, I am so happy to be where I am - 9 days down the path to recovery - and among friends.

Thunderstorm crossing the bay now cooling things off a bit this evening.  Nice soft roll and rumble.  I'll move onto the porch and into the swing to enjoy it.  

Thanks friends!

Avatar universal
by DeseretRain, Jul 23, 2008
I found this blog through google and have been reading through it. I was on Tramadol for almost 3 years, and had been taking 350mg a day for quite a while. I cut down to 150mg a day last Friday, and then on Tues I went cold turkey. It's now very early Wed morning, so maybe this counts as day 2 for me, but I haven't been to sleep yet. I feel pretty miserable, chills, hot flashes, "sick sweat," nausea, exhaustion, anxiety, I could go on. For some reason I feel like I'm in a dream, like nothing is really real. My head is pounding and feels like it's about to explode. It's good to know that at least the worst of this will be over in about a week.

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jul 23, 2008
Good Morning Deserat Rose;

It's 3:46 am here, so I just woke up an hour ago, having passed out at about 10 PM. I saw your message and it'd Day 2 for you huh? (((nice gentle hugs)))  I understand what you are going thru. It's going to be so much better after Day 4 and so much better at Day 7. All of us here seem t agree that's pretty good as far as our experience is concerned.

Sleeping. There's two schools of thought. One is if you aren't on a Benzo (which are in the Thomas Detox) you can take something like Tylenol PM and it might help you sleep. There's just a straight up Benadryl (or its generic) to consider as well. The Benadryl is good to have around during detox because it will help the pain (how does it do that?) ... and it is what they use to counter act many bad medicine reactions. A warm bath might help as well.  If you have mineral salts, use them :)

The mineral salts I use are by Queen Helene Batherapy and are available plain or lavender. I used the lavender. There's Lithium Chloride in that. Very small amounts. It will make you a bit sleepy during early withdrawal. I used it like a scrub in the shower (cause I was too exhausted to take a bath. I just let it sit in my skin for 5-10 minutes in the hot steamy shower. It helped. This was discovered years ago when I had a car accident and my Chiropractor gave some to me. I have used it for insomnia. But listen, any mineral salt will work. Sea salts in a bath even work. Epsom salts work. The skin absorbs some of the minerals and it mellows us out right away. The lithium chloride will absorb thru the skin, so it isn't like you are taking it internally, or as a drug. That's quite different from using mineral salts externally.

Here's link to what the Queen Helene looks like; It is in all the big drugstores here and a 16 oz. is $5. As a thrifty aside, I buy every time I see it on discount. My husband uses it also, after his workouts or if he needs to soothe himself.

The salts are much better than the liquid.  The liquid never helped me.

I am LOL on the inside, cause you know now it is 4:11 am and I see it comes in a 20 gallon pail! If I could find that I bet I would buy it. I love that stuff. It's such a great natural cure for so many things. It is used in sports injuries all the time.

If you can take your vitamins with some food, that would help. If you are say; throwing up pills cause your stomach is still trashed, try EmergenC. I get that at Trader Joe's, and I put three packages into a 50 oz bottle of water. I try to drink 100-150 oz a day. Stomachs and intestine respond really well to yogurt, because of the good bacterium in yogurt that helps replenish your intestines of the "good bacterium" necessary for digestion. I have seen many stomach/intestine related complaints.

There's more things on the right hand side of the main page specifically in the lower right hand side of the page. Lots of great ideas there. Do what you can. I know you are exhausted and this page that you are reading might be moving or you might have trouble reading. If not so, Yay! If so, no worries, that happened to me. The Tramadol seemed to come out of everything. My skin, my ears, my eyes. I couldn't wear my lens for awhile, cause the eyes were first too dry, and then (sorry to get graphic) they got goo in them. Tramadol withdrawal is gross.  

Reassure yourself that it's all been done by people here, and we're still kicking it! We made t thru, minute by minute cause I know you are on Day 2, so just make it minute be minute. Try to breathe, not panic and get pissed off instead. Anger helps. Fear is bad. I mean it is present, and I wouldn't want to invalidate anyone emotions. But the most useful Advice I got was from Ex-Vets who know alot about the attitude you can use when withdrawing. It is the Enemy and the Enemy must die, and not you. It you versus the Tramadol. You may feel it is wiping the floor with you at the moment but it is just throwing everything it can at you immediate in a hock and Awe campaign .... It doesn't play fair, cause there's no rules in a War. Supposedly there are. My feeling (not having been in one is that there are no rules. Except one, fear will kill you and anger will make you proactive!

Tramadol was fast on its way to killing me, I believe. So I killed it.

If you can listen to music it helps alot. It took me awhile to get hearing without strange variations in it. My hearing was super sensitive and I couldn't listen to an iPod even. I think that was gone by Day 10? Or at least for me, it was on and off.

TramaPaul remarked that playing an instrument (guitar I bet since he's talking about fretting? But maybe it is Bass?) and also singing he said helps the bad drug thoughts go away.

Drink alot of fluids. I couldn't drink straight water for awhile, it hurt my stomach and made me nauseous. I added fruit juice to it and that helped.Keep in mind that the pseudo-opiate (which is an opiate and is a Narcotic ...hello!) ... is going to do what all opiates do when you withdraw from them. I was really comforted by looking up the symptoms of "Opiate Withdrawal." The thing that makes you have the crazy drug dreams and the bad bad dug voices is possibly the older than dirt antidepressant they mixed it with.

A heating pad laid across your belly will help the stomach cramps. They are coming for the miles and miles and miles of opiate receptors in your intestine. Which hate not having Tramadol, but in my mind. they needed to suck it up, cause I was done! SO I felt from Day 17-18 and a bit after that; that I had been stabbed, razor blade to intestines punched in the gut hard, Someone kneed me in the gut kinda feeling. That is now gone! YAY!

Deseret Rain I know that you are are in pain but hang on. When I got the insomnia big time, I used distraction technique. Light movies, petting an animal, looking on he Internet for Tramadol stories cause every one of those made ma feel better. Like i wasn't nits. I felt completely insane and also really really physically sick and weak. I knew that the drug voices were hot on my heels. SO I practiced a bit of mind control, I got angry. Getting angry; primitive emotions like Fear are in the Limbic Lobe, the deepest and oldest part of our brain. Fear isn't your friend at all in Tramadol withdrawal.

You write, "It's good to know that at least the worst of this will be over in about a week. \"

Yep. With each day getting better, 4 days in hell, 7 days, you'll be so much better. I never ever want to forget how much Days 1-4 hurt. I don't think I will. But that pain has given me complete revulsion from Tramadol cravings. I have none. NONE. Would rather open a box of rat poison and a box of plastic spoons in the center aisle of a grocery store, plop myself  down on the floor and eat that. LOL! Which is not going to happen.

It's goin to be ok. You will make it thru. It will just suck. Sometimes life ***** anyhow, so remind yourself of that. This is beyond your control  If you can have someone help you, all the better. If they think you have the flu, that's ok. If you don't want to tell anyone but us what you are doing it is ok. I actually think cold turkey mighta been less pain that a fast taper. Yours was a faster taper than mine.

You may feel like you will die. It is not true. The Tramadol loves to tell you, " You are going to die!" It is a lie. A trick to lure you back on the drug. Ignore you thoughts except the ones that are deeper, which say, "Get off this poison. others have done it. SO can you! See? They are getting better daily!" Focus on that. Being proactive (even if you need to write a list) and have a friend get the stuff you need it will help. Or there's always home delivery.

And plamp was probably right about sleeping on the sofa. That was brilliant.  I have no idea why that works, but it does.

Gonna post this now, cause i know you need to be reassured Deserat Rose.

Love and Healing,

(((more gentle hugs)))

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jul 23, 2008
Plamp, I seriously think the immune crash is linked to the Tramadol and that looking in the brighter side, this is it's time to leave. Fact is, it physically exhausted me and I was lucky to get some days off to rest and go thru taper pain and then the Cold Turkey. It's leaving. It's just fighting on it's way out. Zero bad drug thoughts yesterday and get this;

NO BACK PAIN. Minimal leg pain. I wish I could explain to you how amazing that is to me. I didn't even need and ice pack til I woke up a few hours back and that was due to the upper respiratory symptoms. I admit, I get freaked out when I can't breathe wall. I have had bronchitis and pneumonia and I get scared. I am calmer now. And warmer.

What woke me up was a coughing fit. I am concerned about work. I have a physical job, so getting an upper resperitory infection can lead to the scary pneumonia.

It's now better since i took some Antihistamine and got some ice and wrote to Dererat Rose.

SMART GUY! Sleeping on the couch! So smart and good! Yeah, now when I wake up ... I wanna get up asap. No bad drug thoughts.

I will get to see Dark Knight. I love the first movie so much! Husband hates movie theatres. So, maybe I will take a friend. Truth is he'd insist n gong with me! He's nice that way.

I agree that the hardest part is getting to the movie theatre. I think I developed some tramadol related social phobia during withdrawal. I leaves once I start to do ______.

I see the cold things as ... the last Hoorah of the Tramadol.

Love and healing 'O so Wise Plamp!

I am so happy to hear you are feeling better and occasional energy drips and depression are momentary. YAY!

Seeking better days I will now fall back asleep; and write at ya later gator! You sound good. I love what you wrote and wanna comment on it. Also glad to know you are a researcher by nature.

Avatar universal
by DeseretRain, Jul 23, 2008
Thanks a lot for responding, it helps to have something to read about from someone who went through this. I still haven't been able to fall asleep...for some reason I'm totally convinced that if I fall asleep, murderers will break into the house and kill me, not sure if this is a normal withdraw symptom. I took some vitamin C and antihistamine that I had in the house, and it seems to have helped so thanks for that advice. Unfortunately I have no friends or family within a 100 mile radius so there isn't anyone to go out and get things for me. Maybe if I eventually manage to fall asleep, when I wake up I'll feel OK enough to drive to the store and get the other stuff you suggested. Right now going out of the house seems really daunting. I already had irritable bowel syndrome before this and now it feels 100xs worse in withdraw.

Avatar universal
by TramaPaul, Jul 23, 2008
Deseret Rain,

All that stuff is normal. Sucky, but normal. I'd say you are having a pretty normal and horrifying day 2. Good news is, most people agree that day 2 and 3 are the worst. You are almost there. You will feel better soon. I wish you all the best.


Avatar universal
by DeseretRain, Jul 23, 2008
Thanks...I managed to sleep for 7 hours after taking a sleeping pill, which is better than I expected. When I was on the Tramadol, I was usually sleeping from 14-20 hours at a stretch.

Avatar universal
by seekingbetterdays, Jul 23, 2008

TramaPual is right.  You're in the middle of the storm, but have better days ahend.  Way to go on the 7 hrs. sleep.  Judging from most, that's pretty good.  I'm only a week ahead of your and can really feel for what you're feeling.  ALL of us here know what the first days feel like.  "Sucky" says it best!  Good luck!  It's totally worth it.

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jul 23, 2008

I liked your little Inventory!

It was very pleasant. And I agree that restating the obvious is a good reminder. And hey, it's Day 34!

You know I dig the research!

You write, "I could not understand it at all until I researched a little further and found this entry in more than one manufacturer Drug Sheet:

    " At therapeutic doses withdrawal symptoms have
       been reported at a frequency of 1 in 8,000. Reports
      of dependence and abuse have been less frequent."

Given my misery during my last week of existence, this has to be at major contender for the greatest lie ever told."

Well yeah. The Greatest Lie Ever Told. I think lying to people who are in pain about a medication and not knowing (how can they not know? Honestly?) that they are going to go visit Hell on Earth and MAYBE live to tell about it is an abomination.

Yes, An Abomination.

I mean we have A newbie (Hi again Deseret Rain!) here on Day 2-3 thinking if she falls asleep people are going to come in and murder her. And it's a normal withdrawal symptom.  How crazy is that!? I remember the Fear of Humans. When someone knocked, I hid. When someone called, I didn't answer.  It was completely weird. The first time I went out it was only for supplies and only cause of desperation and I wore sunglasses because the light was making my brain feel like someone was stabbing it with an ice pick. So ... yeah.

And there's also the FACT that despite everything I am 34 days out and ALMOST NO BACK PAIN. I can't even believe I am writing this, but it is true. The Sciatica which before made me want to rip off my entire right leg? It's vanished. I feel that the nerve there is a bit raw, but nothing like the leg giving out, or burning searing drop to yer knees scale of 9 Pain!

So it was not only poisoning me, it was making me believe there was injury when in fact the injury seems to have healed substantially.

It makes me terribly angry.

1 in 8000?

See there's a BIG difference in the word "dependence" versus the word "addiction."  I noticed straight away they use the word "Dependence." The DEA doesn't care about the word "Dependence" but they care about the word, "Addiction." Notice they steer FAR clear of the word Addiction. A human body doesn't know the difference between the words as far as physicality is concerned.

An addict craves the drug. But then again a person who has been made dependant may also KNOW that if they take the drug, the withdrawal pain will stop. So with Tramadol you walk a line that is not straight forward. Do you understand?

Our young wise friend Plamp got "dependant" in six weeks.

That is INSANE!

It's unacceptable!

A three month study? Just ... sickening. Really literally sickening.

You write, "I am a researcher by nature, and also a lot on the job.  I started Tramadol after extensive dental work.  Now that I know more about the 'Devil's Pill', you could pull all my teeth with a pair of mechanic's pliers and I wouldn't take the Tramadol poison."

I can't believe they gave you Tramadol instead of Vicodin or Percoset. Is it because you wanted to avoid all the "Narcotics?" Or were you even given a choice?

To think what could have happened to me if I bothered listening to Doctors. I'd probably be on Surgery #3 at least by now. Luckily, me, I don't hear so well when Doctors say things like, "You're doomed to surgery and disability." I do things like lose 60 pounds and get in really good shape instead. I'm not very compliant. LOL! In the best way.

You also write, "I am so pleased I do not crave it.  I know some do.  I am so thankful."

I am thankful too! I have NO Cravings at all for it. It's repulsive to think about taking it ever again. Truly.

"Acceptable Losses." God!!! Do they even HEAR the words? These are human beings we're talking about.  I do understand about your first cousin and I agree that small towns you must be careful in. I have lived in small towns myself.

Your final thought is completely true "Even in Withdrawal, life is still worth it."

We are amongst friend who understand and that is good!

Love and Healing,

Deseret Rain I am SO glad you slept some. It is normal what you are experiencing. The pain won't kill you, use everything you know to distract yourself. If you have a couch, set up your bed there like Plamp talks about. TramaPaul was correct. It is normal and unpleasant early withdrawal. We have all been there and we're all still here!

Avatar universal
by jetgirlmary, Jul 24, 2008
my doc suggested tramadol dose pack and i said no- i was afraid of the steriods- and it intrtacting with my thyroid- so glad i said no- i am going to get epidural shot though- hurts to sleep, stand, walk, sit live!!!!

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jul 24, 2008

So sorry it hurts! What injiry do you have? I've taken steroids twice to bring down flare ups which I now think were caused by tramadol!

We're here for ya!

Love and healing,

Avatar universal
by seekingbetterdays, Jul 24, 2008
Dear "your a total liar",

First I'm betting you're not a total lier as your name implies.

However, I'm not sure what drug demons are chasing you right now to make you say such things and feel sorry for you.  I hope you find your way to a better frame of mind.

You are right about MH, they don't sit around looking for abusive comments like yours.  Others reading the blog report them and they adcted upon and, if warranted, removed.  Often, it has nothing to to with the jounal owner.  

I just wanted to make certain you knew  -- for whatever benefit and comfort it may be -- the owner of the journal may not even see it before it is gone.

Best wishes for recovery and everything else you wish.

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Jul 26, 2008
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This I guess would be my second day. I have been taking stupid tramodol for almost 3 years..maybe 6 to 9 a day. I am a single dad, with 2 girls....have a good job....basically I ran out of the meds,,have one left and did not take it yesterday...did not sleep last night...I am scared to death,,,especially after reading all the post...if I lose my job, I lose my kids,,everything... I feel yucky ,,,been about 24 hours since I had anything...No appetite...depressed....NO energy to get to the damn store...I want to stop this nonsense, just like you guys,,im sitting here,,feeling yucky,,,having horrible thoughts...

after reading your stuff Emily..looks like you have been clean for many weeks ans still feel like **** did you keep your life together while getting this far? I cant imagine how much worse I am going to feel by Monday Morning, when its time to go to work..I simply cant take off...

I want rid of this stupid problem, but cant imagine life without it,,,and cant fathom making it a month and being able to function..

any advice??


544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jul 27, 2008
Hi Rob,

Yep. The only way to get rid of the stupid problem isto go off tramadol. It is horrible, but in the scheme of things, it is a BLINK of an eye.Comapred to the 4-5years i was using it FOR back pain!? ...

No it's not at all true Rob. I did NOT have 30 solid unrelenting days of misery. Every single day I noticed improvement. Sometimes I would take a step back. But afetr Day 4? I knew I wold be OFF it forever!

I don't feel bad. TODAY; 95%of theTramadoleffects ... gone. Today I attendeda 12 hour long seminar for work. No joke.

It just crashed my immune systemat the end, but I didn't get Pneumonia. Just Bronchitis. I was out of work for three days this week  ...sheerly to avoid getting pneumonia. Priority is NOT my job it is to A. Stay Clean and B. Not Die from Pneumonia.

But I don't expect everyone would have an immune crash. I am only able to tell youw hat happened to me.

Everyone is different. Yes,  the first 4 days are very bad.By Day 7 I felt like i was going to live. By Daty 10, I felt human-ish.

I was back at work by Day 11. I did a fast taper AKA "Letting the pills run out."  That caused me some withdrawal symptoms.

Being scared is natural ,but I urge you to use the Fear and transfer it into anger against the addiction itself, or the substance. It's trying to make you Dead. If it has turned on you, it is making you ill. Anger is powerful and proactive.

I kept my life together one day at a time.

Tramadol was GOING TO KILL ME.

Today, no back pain, no leg pain. No tramadaol. After YEARS of unbearable pain, the more I took, the worse it got.

MIRACLE of epic proportions. Loaves and fishes!!

The funcution gets better every day. If you read carefully you will see that. Iimmediately stopped feeling suicidal ideation and immediately got less back and leg pain.I had a few falre ups ofback pain ...but that's the tramadol  trying to get me to take one.

Fear is useless in a War. Don't become confused.  Tramadol will declare and has declared War on you. Feear will get you dead.

A PLAN of action will save you.

Hopoefully you will feel well enough to get to the store on Day 3!

Wishing you love and healing,

Will write more soon, I promise ... But honestly ...very very very very few Tramadol Symptoms. Today the Bronchitis turned around ... I won't get pneumonia. I believe it was the last of the cra-P Tramadol leaving my system. It is common in Recovery and Sobriety to get an immune challenge ,,,

More later ...

I think this is Day 36?

I still and always will remember Days 1-4. They were horrible. But I lived. And you will too. Soberity is worth ANYTHING. I spent today at a 12 hour long seminar that I could NOT get out of. With the end part of bronchitis .... I was tired, but not immobile. No bad drug voices ...  It gets BETTER! Just do today. Just do the next 5 minutes.

Do read the Thomas Detox, do get the vitamins and Amino...I had to make lists! LOL cause I would NOT have remembered!

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Jul 27, 2008
thanks still horrified,,,I not only have to go shopping for the kids,,I have to be at work in the AM,,and that would be day 3 or hell day 4 I have NO idea how much just reading your stuff helps...I did actually sleep last night,,,but the depression, fear, fatigue,,,,no appetitte is HERE!

sorry to soud stupid, but what or where can I find that "Thomas Detox" thing..?

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Jul 27, 2008
PS: Emily, BE Thankfull you had/have a support system....yes I do care more about life than my an extent,,,because without the kids are doomed,,,single dad...nowhere for them to go and that is what kills me the most...I know I sound pathetic,,,,would probably go down and buy a bottle of the trams right now if it were possible...but its really not...yeah yeah I could fake a cold at work for a week, and by friday, probably have another 180 count internet supply delevered....but its expensive,,,and like all of you,,I need a way out,,,and I need it with bascially NO wifey, or money support system to simply go to bed for 7 to 10 days...anyway,,,I did get the vitamins....made it to the grocery store, just got home,,,had to get food for the little ones...otherwise I mat have just gone another sleepness night and day with trying to be able to eat enough food to keep a bird alive!

your a sweety

Avatar universal
by jay742, Jul 28, 2008
Hello im a 32 yr old single mom and ive been taking tramadol for 10months now,and i just knoew this drug was the devil im on day2 of cold turkey,and boy oh boy i truly feel like im going to lose it im in so much misery,i think its worse than haviing a kid!!!!does it matter ur dosage,on thats how long it will take u to get of?I was taking 10-15 pills of 50 mils a day i was truly leading to death,im not going to quite...plz someone get bk to me soon. JAY.

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jul 28, 2008
Hi Jay!

Day 2?  (((gentle hugs and lots of love vibes at ya))) I've been there.

Yeah. Good job on getting to day 2!  Yes, Tramadol is the devil's pill. You think it's worse than having a kid huh? I've never had a baby, but I know that several people have comapred getting off as worse than getting off cocaone and booze. I would say it was more intense than coming off any of the benzos, for me. Everyone is different.

There's alot that can help. A sublingual B-12 tablet. Lots of water (tramadol leaves first thru the kidney thus the urine) ... if you can put EmergenC or a liquid vitamin that can work well. Look on the lower right hand side of the page, there's something called the "Thomas Recipe." Aka The Thomas Detox. It helps ALOT. There's vitamin and mineral and amino suggestions there. There's tonnnsss of tips thru this whole journal and anyone who has been on Tramadol can help you out. You know; withdrawal is withdrawal ..... so anypne can help you here!

You aren't going to lose it. It's the drug talking, trying to get you to take more so you'll be back on it.

You aren't going to die, that's the drug talking. It feels like death, but it is actually death to STAY on the PILLS when you know they are killing you,

The dose you were taking was large, and you were on it long enough to make you physically dependant. Thus the withdrawal. Only you know if you were addicted or have an addictive personality. That matters if you are craving them. I used repulsion techniques and frankly the first 4 days were so bad, I will never ever take one again. I'd rather eat rat poison.

Vitamins, water, protein ... distract yourself. You're gonna take a bit of a ride, but it will be over eventually

Come on over to the Day 38 journal also ... I know you will get tons of help.

It's going to be ok. You're just in the eye of the storm.

Cold turkey is supposed to be rough, the tapering is more popular, seizure risk and so on but you're on Day 2 ... With the amount you were taking, it's I think less likely after 48 hours out and off the tramadol.

Love and healing,

SO glad you are here!

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Jul 28, 2008

Im on day 3,,and probably dont feel much better....the biggest suck part for me is the insomnia...i can take 6 sleeping pills and still maybe sleep 2 hours at night....unfortunatly,,I have NO support system,,,and I have 2 children (love em more than life),,,it is very hard to not let them know whats going on,,I feel like hammered ****...if I dont go to work,,im doomed,,I did go today,,,faking a bad home now,,,but barely enough energy to write this,,im praying I get some slep tonight...I guess for only being on day 3...making my 8 hour work day is a small accomplishment...hopefully I can make the damn week...I was taking anout 6 t0 8 a day for 3 years...enough is enough....sick of spending the money,,,worring about running out....started with a bad back just like emily...and just like her,,I have had no back pain for 3 days...but the withdrawels are VERY draining....ive been told it hon estly takes about 6 months to a year to completely be totally done.....I feel yuck right now,,,but I am functioning,,,and emilys right,,im not going to die from stopping damn tramashits....hang in there,,its a fight from hell for me,,but I am going to fire my entire aresanel to whip this damn problem,,,,im hoping I can come in on nabout day 15 and say "day 15"....anyway,,,good luck and THANK YOU EMILY as well

keep posting!


544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jul 28, 2008
Rob writes; "...started with a bad back just like emily...and just like her,,I have had no back pain for 3 days...but the withdrawals are VERY draining..."

Yeah, The lack of BACK PAIN makes me A. Happy ver very very happy and ...  B.  Makes me realize that Tramadol WAS THE CAUSE of the "Chronic Back Pain." Which highly educated Doctors told me needed surgical correction and ... well ...

It makes me so ANGRY that I wanna take off one shoe and run in a circle screaming!!!

Not sure what that would accomplish but still ... my honest thoughts on a drugs that makes back pain worse ... and creates chronic pain patients .... Oh and makes people CRAZY ...


Four days. It'll get so much better! I promise!

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Jul 28, 2008
PS: another thing that *****,,I suppose I could delete the ****,,,but for mental reasons I think I need to know I COULD get some more trams if I had to,,,,where I am going with this is ,,in my inbox is at least 20 emails titled "time to refill your prescription...I could have 180 of em on my doorstep in 2 tempting...but on the other hand,,,end of the month and I am basically broke,,,so maybe thats a good thing,,,my kids food and well being come before tramodols...and my other nasty habit I spend way too much of our money on is f/n ciggs.....actually spend more on them than the pills...but one thing at a time,,,the rest of 08 is going to be drug and nicotine free if I can pull it off,,,hell,,about 5to 700 a month more money to spend on something worthwhile? How the hell did I ever get in this mess..wouldnt it be a nice Christmas to be totally craving free of all this money wasting **** that is killing us??

also, emily,,do you smoke?


544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jul 28, 2008
Rob, I don't smoke. Never have, but I know plenty of people who do and have.

I am a recovered food addict. They have a 2% success rate, 5 times less than the success rate on crack.

I actually lost 60 pounds FOR the back injury and then couldn't figiure out why the back was still hurting. I'll tell ya why; TRAMADOL!

One day and one substance at a time. I am on Klonopin for anxiety. But I have to tell you ... since I stopped the Tramadol the need for Klonopin is sharply decreasing. I just don't have the physical pain into anxiety cycle happening anymore. So, like you ... one thing at a time ....

And yes, it will be a reallllllly nice Christmas! NO BACK PAIN!!! No money wasted on pills .... no Doctors saying, "Well we can give you some steroids and a tanquilizer?" ....


Makes me very angry .....

In a way, Rob, the girls you love, your daughters, are pretty strong motivation to stay off the tramadol and make it to day 4. Which is when it will get so much better! I haven't ever heard of anyone saying that Recovery Withdrawal Symptoms last more than 90 days. Maybe your first year of Sobriety is a marker ... But I will say I got ill at around day 30 ... coulda been fat cells detoxomg. Just a guess.

Love and healing,

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Jul 28, 2008
hello again emily

I gusee since we are baring our soles tramy started 3 years ago when I kicked a 4 year BAD BAD vicoden habit,,talking about  waste,,,,,1200 A MONTH FOR MAYBE 4 YEARS.......FELT GOOD WHILE I had em,,BUT MY GOD what a habit to kill,,,,,I DID NOT feel very good for almost 7 or 8 months,,,,,,,the tramys the doc said would help,,,,well,,hell,,,compared to 7 1000 mlg vicodens a day? not hardley,,,long story short,,I was so proud for killing the hydro habit,,,,and it wasnt till about 2 years later (on tramys) I finally found out they were pretty damn addictive......I am hoing it doesnt take 8 months to a year like with the vics,,,ive been off them for 3 its trams,,,anyway,,,just so you know,,,I did (sort of) defeat one bad *** pill,,,and have no desire for a hydro for years...

thanks for the help sweety

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Jul 29, 2008

did make it to work again,,,but about out of get up and go...

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Jul 29, 2008
good grief, you cant even use the word " s u c k s" ?  who built this site,,,the pope ?  to who ever it is (web master)...sir/mam,,we are recovering from horrible things.....maybe it's just me,,but like Emily said,,,get mad,,,not get fear....and getting mad requires a least a teeny weeeeeeeeeny bit of language,,,,as long as it is not foul mouth s h i t, directed at someone,,,what's your problem? your filter xed out the word s u c k......and as far as i know,,,that word is in the dictionary....good grief...

anyway,,im a little antsy today,,,just trying to make i to work tomorrow and make day 4 and a half...Em I hope your okay,,,I girl told me today that the clonotin,,(or however its spelled ) your taking is ALSO a hell of a pill to get off of?
hopefully it wont be for you..

with love

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jul 29, 2008
LMAO ... yes. Yes. Yes the Pope made this site and he doesn't like the word Su. Ck. S. LOL. Get Jiggy with The Pope! LOL!

Insomnia ***** on days 1-4. I mean BAD. I used antihistamins, batherapy salts, hot baths and hot tea. Staying warm was good. You only have one more half day to get thru and it'll get so much better! I promise!

Yes, get very very angry and then instead of swearing ... (cause yeah my mind was just one long run on sentence of swear words .... cause it HURTS!!!) ... just say wholesome stuff like "GOSH DARNITAY Hot Diggidy DAWG, this Tramadol sleeps with Camels and drinks mai tais in a local bar starting as soon as it opens! Gosh darn it all! I'm so ticked off. I'm mad. Mad as H-E double toothpick! I tell you what!?"


It's going to get better soon. I'm on Day 40 today Rob. It's no cake walk. But, it can be done, as long as you reallllly want OUT! I know you want it!  Don't let the stupid pills beat you up ... YOU beat them up ok? I remember how bad it was. It was bad. But you are so close. GET MAD and FIGHT! I hope you sleep tonight? Do you have anything that will help you sleep?

Love and healing,

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Jul 30, 2008
Man I hope I sleep tonight too...have not missed a day of work yet...2 more days till friday,,,thank God I have an admin job in an air conditioned office,,,and a company car I can hop in and leave from time to time just to change the mood and environment ( while pretending to be out inspecting projects)....anyway,,,I took my last 50 MG pill saturday evening,,,,but im so friggin brain scrambled,,im not sure if this is day 3-4,,,4 and a half,,,maybe even 5...good grief I feel like an idiot...and ill have to say....the insomina and rls will be my demise if I cant make it....yes I have some damn valium.....but you know what? I took 2 10 MGs last night and still only slept from about 4 am to 6 am...maybe 2 stupid hours......your right about one thing,,the suicide thoughts are gone,,totally,,,maybe cause I am in a war and have NO time to even think about anything but working,,hiding this from my 2 little ones,,and my peers at work,,,they think I have the flu from H E double L....I think tomorrow is definetly day 5...if I could only get some sleep.....and yes,,I have tried EVERYTHING from valiums,,,excersizing,,,,reading boring **** half the night etc... the B vitamins I think are the only thing keeping me from dying......but im afraid they might be part of why I cant sleep..

congrads on day 40,,,if you give up now,,,well that would be sad,,,,when I killed off the vicodens 3 years ago,,,day 40 was STILL a living hell..Im not lying, it took 6 or 8 months to feel half *** from the hydro,,,be glad trams are your issue.....I am praying your right and they are a 2 to 4 week ordeal ,,then pretty much feeling normal for the first time in 200 years......trams cant be NOTHING  lie those 1000 MG vicodens...................I think I just need sleep....

one thing I do remember though,,8 years ago before I was addicted to anything....didnt seem like I felt great al the time,,,,BUT,,at least pills werent consuming me....ok,,enough rambling,,im so tired I am delerious...

with Love


544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jul 30, 2008
Dear Rob,

So true. It really seems that to keep on movng and changing tasks makes it better. I felt better after day 4 passed, seeking better days said it was day 5 for him. I slept well and deeply after day 7, as long as i didn't have major symptoms. A heating pad helped me a great deal.

No, I think the Suicidal Ideation and thoughts are coming from the tramadol. That BASTAGE!  I know that 100% because they vanished and they only come back if I have overdone it or have becaome overstressed. Actually I am on Day 41, and I wouldn't say it is a living H-E double toothpicks (so lame that we have to do this since we're talking about addiction) .... But I am not normal. I had what felt like an anxiety attack in slow motion starting from the Earthquake yesterday, only ceasing when I was in converstaion with people. SO as you can imagine I was Chatty Cathy yesterday.

So the panic is ebbing and flowing. I forced myslef to come to work and am so so so glad I did, ecause I feel better and am not in bed freaking out. Being in bed, and not sleeping is just an invitation for the darker voices of Tramadol to come a knockin' on my van!

I'm not going to give up now. But OMG I am exhausted. Maybe if I can fall asleep really early tonight, I can off. There have been really excellent very functional days.

I managed thru the anxiety to FORCE myself in spurts to DO STUFF at home. Like Laundry. But it was exhausting. Part of it was just getting bronchitis and the recovery from that is long and annoying.

B-vitamns probably are keeping you alive, because they soothe the nervous system. Insomnia is a classic withdrawal sysmptom. It does go away. Use anything and everything you can to get some sleep Rob!

I'm interested to hear about the hydro of course and I do believe you that it took 6-8 months to feel "normal."

My feeling is that the more rest and immune strengthening I can get now, the better. Yoga will be after care for me!

Sending my BEST vies!

Love and healing,

Avatar universal
by jay742, Jul 30, 2008

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Jul 31, 2008

Day 5 is better than day 4. By Day 7, I was sleeping again. Day 10, I knew I was going to live. :)

It's going to be ok.

Thank goodness you started w/d before finding your were preeggie :)

Not many days at all left for you sweetheart!

Love and healing,

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Jul 31, 2008
Hi Em

Day 5 here,,,took a damn nap,,,couldnt believe it,,,1 hour,,,but hey... anyway,,,,the hydro's...? My God,,,for one and in NO priority,,,they cost about 5 to 7 dollars a pop,,,,4 if you buy over 100 at a time from the rats out there who pretend to be your best friend,,,and are always calling about the time they know your almost out.....yes my first couple bottles were real scripts for a disc (L5) basically minor surgery.... anyway,,,they give you an UN imaginable euphoric feel like re roofing your house your so full of energy etc...and yes,,you can sleep at night if you want too...hel I used to enjoy going clubbing about other weekend, have jack and cokes,,,chasing the women etc...after getting on the hydro's...guess what? felt better than a good drinking buzz ,,NO HANGOVER.....never was anytrhing close to a drinking addict,,,but didnt much care if I ever drank for YEARS while I had a bag full of 1000 mg vicodens....would average 8  a day.....went to a doc one time,,,,about the time trams came out,,,I had had a tram or 2 before...anyway,,,was faking something to get a script for hydro....(my good buddy happen to be out of em)...the doc gave me trams...I told her she was a nut,,they were too weak,,,,,,well sometime in 05 I said f it,,,,tapered off the hydro,,,with my 2 kids as well back then....Emily, I felt 25 times worse than I do was all I could do to stand up and shower for 2 monthsfor 3 months,,my sectratery ran my damn business while I was home dying most of the time....I read boards like this one...I guess maybe after about 3 to 4 months,,I was fair,,,BUT,,,I had been taking trams to ease off some of the nightmare withdrawell,,,,little did I know here 3 years later,,,,the trams arent ANYTHING near as bad,,,and they cost 1 dollar, compared to 5 to 8 dollars......but ya still have to make sure you got a supply alll the time,,,and they do slow your sex life down bad....amongst other things....that pretty much sums it up...vicodin withdrawel makes you feel sickly for MONTHS..I looked like a skeleton for a year...5 ft 11, weighed 150 (185 now).....was embarraasing,,,,got so sick of people telling me I looked horrible...was about a year before I got my weight and my looks far with this tram withdrawel, I look decent,,,cause I am eating alot,,,something I could NOT do for months after stoping hydro,,,let me say this,,if you have any hydro products,,FOR CHRIST SAKE,,,flush em,,youl be addicted in a week,,,trams are sugar pills compared to a vicodin addiction,,,

I think your right, I think these trams are going to be a walk in the park compared to the vics,,,BUT,,im only on day 5,,,feel so so,,,have a big appetite,,but fatigue....I can almost compare getting off these things to ciggs,,I stopped that nasty habit for a whole year, about 7 years ago,,and remember having 2 weeks of horror,,,panned out the 3rd week,,,,and honestly, I think the ciggs are worse on me than the trams were,,,so guess what I am going to can next?  dont worry, I am going to make sure I kick this one first,,,im going to give myself 60 days off tramodol,,,the the cigg routine...God I hope the tram horror really does go away as soon as all you guys say,,and I can make it happen.

tommorrow will be day 6 for me,,,,Jay,,,,you will be fine,,,just keep posting cause it helps all of us stay the course,,and if not for Em,,,,I would have most likely had 180 trams fed exd to me by today....

thanks EMILY ! feel free to ask me anything...your help is awesome

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Aug 01, 2008
day 6 here, made the entire work week....still not falling asleep until maybe 2 hours before the alarm goes off at 6 AM.....but eating like a pig, which is good for me...Im always a little under weight...its friday night,,,normally the night I induldge in about 7 of those da mn trams (through out the evening),,,so I am afraid of how tonight will go,,,also,,,the weekend is a little scary,,,heck, I think going to work may have made the last 5 days advice,,,,no matter how bad you feel,,,,try not to stay idle for long,,,especially in the damn bed,,,and ill now swear by B vitimins,,,,,anyway,,ive got a LONG way to be able to say I have burned off this bad habit,,,,but I feel like I am going to win....

my advice for insomnia,,,get up,,,do not lay in bed,,even though your so tired you cant hardly walk,,,get up, play a game on the computer or read until you feel like your going to pass out...then go try and sleep,,if it doesnt work,,,get up again.....your NOT gaining didly by laying in bed tossing and feeliing like your going to jump out of your skin...

Em....did I read somewhere that you said you had "other" pain pills,,,but werent taking them,,,such as hydro? For God's sake,,, would be kicking a bad habit for a REAL REAL BAD habit.....a hydro pill is 25 times stronger than a little 50 mg tram.......yes I agree, trams are a form of an opiate,,,but NOTHING like a Vic.. Matter of fact, I work for the State, had to pass a drug test,,opiates being one of the "nope, you cant work here" test....trams do not even show up....I was taking 8 a day and passed with flying colors.....I have read alot of people have done what I did, switch from vics to trams....message boards galore.....basically its not a good move,,,,,but I have to say it again, this so far is a cake walk compared to hydro issues,,,and I hope im not jinxing myself by saying all this, cause I am only on day 6...

You said you had a little attack,,the other day,,on about day 40 for you?? that scares me,,,I do not want to remember what a tram was by my day 40.....I hope your okay,,,and what about you Jay? you holding up? you and I are very close on our day count...

with Love

Avatar universal
by jay742, Aug 01, 2008

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Aug 01, 2008
Hi Rob,

Thank you for telling me the story. I so appreciate it.

Yeah, see? Our chemistry is so different. Vicodin aka Hydro's? Hate them.

They do nothing for me. Except make me feel like I am in the most foul mood ever, and I start fights with people, am angry, really angry. Nothing but side effects and zero good effects. Doesn't even treat Pain for me.

I flushed a few Hydos a few years ago, but it was unnecessary for me, because I don't have the chemistry that you do. I don't crave them. Vicodin never made me feel euphoric or high. Not even once. It was like taking a sugar pill. Even the extra strength ones. Didn't do anything for pain for me. Never made me high. Pissed me off. But never made me high.

I don't really like being high unless I am in pain that is level 9-10 (unbearable pain, take me to the ER pain and remember I now have no insurance!) ....which is why I was taking more and more Tramadol, hoping it would help the pain. It didn't. In fact, it made the pain worse. It started to cause the pain.

ALSO ... bog difference between you and I? You want to eat? It's day 43 and I have to remind myself to eat and that I need water. I'm a recovered/recovering food addict so to NOT be hungry is surreal! I mean, it is welcome, I am a normal small woman, so I am not worried. But it is odd. Just proves everyone's chemistry is different.

I do have other pain pills in the house. Including codeine, Vicodin, Tramadol. I don't crave any of them. I was taking them for pain. Eventually everything turns on you I think. I don't crave drugs. None of them. What I did want thru ALL of this ... thru the last years post car accident and injury and recent re-injury was just not to have unbearable pain.

You wrote, "Emily, I felt 25 times worse than I do was all I could do to stand up and shower for 2 months for 3 months,,my sectratery ran my damn business while I was home dying most of the time....I read boards like this one...I guess maybe after about 3 to 4 months,,I was fair,,,BUT,,,I had been taking trams to ease off some of the nightmare withdrawell,,,,little did I know here 3 years later,,,,the trams arent ANYTHING near as bad,,,"

Yeah, see I know that feeling because THAT was how I felt coming off the Tramadol. A hot bath was totally out of the question until about Day 20-25? I had to stand up in the shower.  It was exhausting. And yes, my assistant is making tons of excuses for me and has no idea why. At the moment it's truly Bronchitis and anxiety. Which go hand in hand. But I overworked yesterday and I knew it. So no work today. But the Bronchitis was caused by the Tramadol!

Work tomorrow though. I had to use an inhaler yesterday twice, and that'll whack ya out pretty good. I am looking forward to sleeping hopefully the entire weekend.

And yes, Tramadol destroys your sex life. Amen.

((((Ray))))You're such a doll. No worries for me about the hydros. I hate that ****. Not as much as I hate Tramadol at the moment, but I never was hooked on Vicodin. I know alot of people that have been.

The Tramadol horror will go away. DAY SEVEN is GOOD! Day 10, you know you will make it so hang tight!

But yes, I have taken a bunch of different pills for pain before my doctors got opiate scared and put me on Tramadol.  What were the pills? Codeine, Vicodin (Yuck), Darvoset, Flexeril? (sugar pill), some sort of anti inflamitory that killed some people, so I was taken off that, no matter since it wasn't working. Another type of muscle relaxant that didn't work. Soma, which did work, and does work for break thru pain. Luckily I'm not addicted to soma cause soma had Tylenol in it. Morphine, which I would literally nibble on one pill and it helped, and that bottle lasted a LONG time. But it made me constipated. I had no problem just stopping that either.  I'm NOT kidding. I've been on Percoset. Again, not for long and no withdrawal.

Then enter Tramadol. Then when that wasn't working well enough they gave me a very very old tri cyclic antidepressant which was supposed to help with nerve pain in a super low dose. Amityptilyine? I THOUGHT at the time that it created Suicidal Thoughts. I now believe it was NOT the amityptilyine. I think and know it was the freakin' Tramadol.  Not a single Doctor would ever admit that. BUT ... I was buying books on suicide prevention and writing to experts in suicidal ideation at the end. AND when I stopped ... cold turkey. The suicidal thoughts VANISHED. SO did the back pain.

It came back, the back pain, a few times. BUT not enough to make me go back on Tramadol cause I knew that stuff was going to kill me.

I am on Klonopin for anxiety. That came in AFTER the Tramadol My theory is that the anxiety is and was produced by the Tramadol. And the back pain. I can't tell you how AMAZED I am to have zero freakin' back pain!? And minimal leg pain!?

So, my need for pills is now gone. I have to remind myself to keep taking the klonopin or I'll go into a Benzo detox. Let me get overt the Tramadol and get some strength back before that happens! LOL. Like you, I'll be WAY over the Tramadol before the Benzo taper. If it is true that I have an anxiety condition that is NOT drug induced, I'll find out realllly quickly.

Yes, Day 40-42 was a non stop mental anxiety mind game drug thought lalapalooza! But I think stress (Earthquake) and overwork, and bronchitis led to that. It seems to be OK, and then BOOM ... BAD! NEVER as bad as days 1-10! And day 25 was magic.

You know what Rob, it seriously sounds like your body is more Vicodin prone than Tramadol prone. Of course it isn't a great plan to go from one to another. But ... unless ... people have had Lower back pain ... they have no idea how EASY it becomes to just take what you need to keep functioning. We're in the dark ages as far as healing these disc injuries.


Thank you for sharing what you did. It reinforces my theory that certain body chemistries are more prone to one drug than others. That being said, Tramadol has kicked my butt and taken my name. But then, I was on it the longest and at the highest dose of anything I took. So, it makes sense. I did that cause they (The Idiot Doctors) SAID it was safe. And to be Frank, I don't believe that they are in some blissful ignorant state. I think it is about $$ and not being arrested for passing out opiates.

Also, yes, of course, everyone here has pills all the time. But I have no cravings, in fact, repulsion!

I keep NOT getting message when (via email alert) someone replies to my journal! Only 60% of the messages I get alerted to. Annoying.

Anyhow THANK YOU so much for telling me your story. Man, it HELPS! It helps! It just does. Know you aren't alone you know? The drugs isolate YOU!

Jay, how are you doing over there? Let us know ok?

Love and healing,

Avatar universal
by jay742, Aug 01, 2008

Avatar universal
by jay742, Aug 02, 2008
hello emily an rob,it is now day 7 and so much better not to much aching just really tired!!!what should i do for energy?my house is so dirty and im use to a spick an span house.but i have no physical energy,so how u  doing rob day 9 for u rite.and emily why did it take so much longer for u to get better cuz i see like 30 days ur still hurting.i can not do this for that long im so so tired! bye the way this is jay forgot to tell u that.well i hope and pray i sleep 2-nite.well see,talk to u2 soon lots of love jay....

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Aug 02, 2008
its only day 8 for me Jay,,,I slept 4 hours last night...forced myself to go visit my buddy who owns a Ranch,,,we built a dear stand,,,cooked ribs and fished till dark..( I even caught a 6 lb Bass).yes I was only on about half of an energy level,,,and now I am Doggeg! (its 12 PM, just got daughter is in Dallas with my mother for a week,,,,and I just decided this morning I WAS NOT going to lay around here and feel like **** all day,,,didnt feel great,was damn hot outside,but was outdoors and busy..........I think I am going to make it,,,but im not anywhere near ready to say "I don't want or need the damn things" and it be the truth...

Hi EM, how was your day? I am in Dallas Texas (Home of the 5 time world champion Dallas Cowboys) LOL,,,,where r u?

advice for you Jay,,,take ALOT of B vitimans....and no matter how tired,,,dont lay down unless you CAN fall asleep...PS, My house is dirty too,,,but I did make it to work every day this week.even went out and bought Kid Rocks new CD (All Summer Long)..sort of productive,,its incredible how music also helps,,,,,watching TV stinks,,,for me anyway,,,I seem to do so much better just forging on and being as active as I possibly can,and I have made a vow to get busy living again, instead of getting busy dying...and when your on dope,,,your only existing most of the time...not really living a life...

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Aug 03, 2008
Also, Em

Maybe I need to completely bare my soul and talk about "benzo" withdrawel......I have valliums, take 2 sometimes at night to sleep at all now,,,,,ive got a story for you about these damn things,,,I may be in for another pure hell, such as I was with the hydro habit tossed 3 years ago,,,,,I know you and I have different systems.....but I had a valium ordeal,,,and couldnt win....I hope you can when you get ready to start that one....(benzo kill)..

anyway,,,other than ciggs,,,,honestly I need to make time to kill the valiums,,,well heck this doesnt make any sense,,I just need to tell you my story...its Sunday, day whatever for me,,,7-8? I feel decent, but bored, not real excited about doing anything today,,,and laying around is miserable on the soul...

have to work in the AM,,,hope I can make this week as at least as close to as well as last week....I cant pretend to have a damn cold for 3 months...people just don't really care,,,and they eventually get annoyed...

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Aug 03, 2008
Hi Jay!

Glad you are hanging in! For energy Sublingual (under the sublingual B-12 works for me)  A teaspoon of honey works. I got honey sticks at a coffee shop and they work.

A huge amount of water and vitamins in the water works.

The energy will return but in bursts. The biggest game is the head trip I think. The more you move, the more Tramadol comes out. It is held in a reservoir intramuscularly! So drink water and move if you can. You won't feel great, but it is better than being on Tramadol.

It's Day 45 for me, no Tramadol symptoms yesterday and none today.

I hurt on and off. Never as bad as days 1-4 or even days 1-7 or even days 1-10. Keep in mind i was on it for five years, and I haven't really been a pill person before that. And the pain was getting worse of the pill so there's a chance i am allergic or developed an allergy to it.

Also I got bronchitis on Day 31, so that Soooo didn't help. They say you get bumps (symptoms) at days 30, 60, 90 and 1 year and 2 years. I believe it. I do NOT have a drug craving for Tramadol. Just do one day at a time and don't think your experience will be like mine at all! You could very well be OUT soon, depends on how long you used (MAYBE) ...

I use Excedrin Migraine in the morning and afternoon and it had made the pain bearable and I take more vitamins than anyone I know. It'll get better Jay, I promise! Just hang in there and don't take anymore Tramadol rat poison ok?

Love and healing,

Avatar universal
by Robert686, Aug 03, 2008
Hi everyone.
My wife is an addict.  She has been on pills for the last 5 years starting with oxycotton and switching around till she finally ended up on Tramadol.
Its been a friggin roller coaster ride for me and my 2 boys (6 and 4)., and i'm sure for her too.
Last night she asked that I take two weeks off from work so that she can finally get clean.  I told her I'm willing (but could likely lose my job). I'm at the point where the only thing that matters is getting my wife back and for my kids to finally have a clean mother.  She really has been a good mom when she has her pills.  But when she runs towards the end of her prescription she turns into the devil.  She does nothing but lay around and ***** at the kids until I come home.  
She is almost out of pills and she says that she wants this to be the end of her addiction.  When I try to talk to her about it, she gets mad and says that I don't understand.  For example, she's upset with me because I just called her to tell her that I found this website and she should read what others are going through.  
Please tell me if there is anything I should pick up for her at the store (vitamins, Tylenol, etc)  
What should I expect for the next few weeks?
Should I try to make it so the kids and I are not around while she is going through this?
I'm so confused...

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Aug 03, 2008
Hi Rob!!!

YAY! I grew up on a Ranch in New Mexico and know Texas pretty well. My parents were hippies, and had their Family REALLY young, moved us out of California when we were young. So, I am completely a ranch girl ... bare back horses and whatnot. But I am also a true California Girl in every way.

My Dad lived in Texas and died there. In Corpus Christie. He was a boozer, and drank himself to death. He was almost 51 when he passed. YOUNG! He had alot of addiction issues, and died in the end of Pancreatic cancer and liver cancer, both as a result of booze. Addiction. He really never got a chance you know?

At least, we still have a chance! I'm grateful and fishing is FUN! Love it that you caught a big ole fish!

Have been to Dallas, LOVE San Antonio. Nearly went to UT at Austin for College, but it fell thru and I ended up in California in Los Angeles, the City of Angels. :) One of my regrets is actually NOT getting to go to UT at Austin. I think I would have had an excellent education there. But ... what can you do with the promises of an active alcoholic like my Dad was? Not worth the bottle they are written on.

I actually really like Texas. I like the people there and I like the pride they have in their State. I actually also love the South. I went to Tennessee once and thought I had gone to heaven. No joke. Fried green tomatoes, nice people? Gorgeous!!

Days 44 and 45 ... zero symptoms of Tramadol withdrawal. I had lingering bronchitis, and I went to work and pretended I wasn't sick yesterday! So, now I am off til Tuesday. HAPPY about that! If ONLY I was sleeping more. I MISS SLEEPING. However, I know I haven't slept in years cause Tramadol keeps you from deep sleep. And I do not wake up at 2-4 am anymore unless I am in back pain. I was waking up every night FOR YEARS while on Tramadol.

LOL about you writing, "I am in Dallas Texas (Home of the 5 time world champion Dallas Cowboys) LOL,,,,where r u?"

No one in their right mind could ever deny that The Cowboys are a great team, and that you just have the best looking cheerleaders in the NFL. Texas is a great state. How is Kid Rock's New CD?

You wrote to Jay, "I seem to do so much better just forging on and being as active as I possibly can,and I have made a vow to get busy living again, instead of getting busy dying...and when your on dope,,,your only existing most of the time...not really living a life... "


Baring the soul where you are safe to do so is ALWAYS good.

Yeah. It's cracking me up what different chemistry we have. I have been on Xanax ( gave me reflex panic attacks due to its short half life), Ativan (is that a sugar pill?) I think they gave me Valium (Didn't do anything to me), only Klonopin worked. I once thought that MAYBE the klonopin they gave me was making me crazy. So I tapered and got off and YES ... IT SUCKED!!! In a different way that Tramadol sucked. I was off 60 days, showed no improvement (BECAUSE I was ON TRAMADOL which WAS the problem and which WAS creating the NEED for a BENZO to begin with!) ...

So yes, I agree about trouble withdrawing and Benzos. Different drug, but still a Benzo. I am back down to a "normal" dose at night (except once in a blue moon, like when I had bronchitis and had to work and the not being able to breathe well was too much for me) .... The good thing about Benzo tapers and withdrawal is that EVERYONE and his brother knows it is hard and there's alot more info on it. With Tramadol ... you are shooting in the dark. I mean, most Docs won't even admit there is a HUGE problem with Tramadol. They sure don't want it rescheduled!

But staying steady on the klonopin until I get some DEEP recovery. i won't even attempt a Klonopin taper UNTIL I go back to yoga and start to kick butt and take names in classes again. My feeling is that I don't have a true anxiety condition. Not an ORGANIC one. I had pain. I had Tramadol. The back seems to have healed a great deal. And yo know what, i worked HARD for that to happen. SO I don't appreciate Tramadol making me so nuts!

This time I will be ready for a Benzo taper, last time, I went into it blind ... ;-) It was really bad. But honestly, the Tramadol has been worse than that for me. Individual chemistry being what it is. The benzo quit NEVER left me completely disabled in bed in horrific pain for 4 solid days and nights. I functioned, not optimally, but also not like a scrambled egg head, like I had with Tramadol.

I never thought that during the Klonopin taper and detox that I was going to die like I have with Tramadol. Tramadol is my enemy. It seriously tried to kill me.

Hoping you are well. I jumped outta bed this morning (staying in bed when NOT asleep=BAD for me) and got to the store, so we have food and nice stuff. Going to use my two days off to really recharge!

Love to you and healing Rob;

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Aug 03, 2008

OK. Well. 2 weeks is a long time. I was on for 5 years on Tramadol. The first four days were the worst. My husband didn't miss work. But I don't have babies yet. She would feel like the worst flu EVER for four days in combo with massive anxiety and a migraine. I talk about symptoms in other parts of my journal. If you took off on Monday or Tuesday with a BAD FLU ... would that give you a weekend ... that would be ideal ... you could get her to Day 6 or day 7. By day 7, most people know they won't die. Losing your job sounds like a bad plan.

First I went thru some other pills.  I don't know that I am an addict to pills, but I have addiction issues.

So an addict is an addict.

If you go to the home page of addiction, on the right side there is a vitamin, and amino acid list as well as something called The Thomas Detox. Imodium AD is great if she has bowel symptoms, too much will make her constipated and that's no good. I lived on bananas and tuna fish sandwiches.. It destroyed my appetite. I used ALOT of water 100 ounces a day with Emergen-C in it.

There's a product called Queen Helene Batherapy Lavender which is great. Soaking in a bath tub is great. A heating pad, ice packs of she has legit pain somewhere. Is she taking them to get high or for pain? My back pain went AWAY and so did ALL the CRAZY when I ceased Tramadol ...

Your wife HAS to be the one to quit. Hopefully she has developed a hate of Tramadol like I did. If you are tapering, which I HOPE you are .... you hold the pills if she's actually craving them.

I used Excedrin PM and Benadryl. We don't know how much she is taking, but supposedly cold turkey off too much Tramadol is dangerous, so a taper is in order.

It alarms me she is worried about this site. Does that mean she will resist quitting? Honestly, no one can help her, except herself. You can be supportive, but she has to STOP eating the pills and never start again.

Love and healing,

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Aug 03, 2008
Hey Robert

if you read my stuff,,,I was kind of like your wife,,,a vicoden head for about 4 years.....decided enough was enough....and it almost killed me to get off of em,,,took about a year to feel safe from temptation,,,and the withdrawels? My God,,,they compare to Ems tram withdrawels,,,,anyway,,,to ease the vicoden crud,,,I got on trams right away,,,about 3 years ago....they helped..even thought they were keeping my back from collasping,,,,,moving along, trams are easier to get,,,and a fraction of the cost of vics,,,,but last week I ran out,,,,and just simply made the decision to see if I could be rid of that **** as well..... I was on about 8 a day...dont know how many your wife is on,,or how long...but if shes like me,,,(unlike Em),,,this isnt really that bad...tram withdrawel.....if she killled off OXY awhile back,,,possibily shes like me,,and these trams arent sending me to the grave,,,granted I sure would like to have a handfull,,,and I am only on day 8....but I did not miss one day of work,,,have 2 small kids, single dad...just came inside from the 100 degree heat, chopped up a huge limb that fell off onto my hot tub I feel great? Hell no....but I am certianly not sick....and I am eating like a horse,,,,,,,,,

knock on wood, sometimes the second week is wore than the first,,such as cigg withdrawel,,,mainly cause you still have a little of your poisen in you,,,and about that second week,,,its gone and the bod freaks,,,if that happens to me this week,,I am going to be VERY disgusted....

Dont quit the job...the wife just needs to suck it up like I did when I killed the vicodens 3 years ago,,,I had my kids and bit on na rag for 3 months to be nice ol dad,,,they never suspected or worried,,,

granted, everyone is different,,,,ciggs are my next vice to kill, if this works (the trams)..

keep us posted,,,this stufff (boards) are better than having a doctor to go see.....I would ave already had another 180 ct pill bottle of trams fed exd here if not for reading all of Emily's stuff...

good luck bud,,

and em, I am resting up from cutting that d a m n tree up,,,,so I will write more later....ugh,,,,why us???

Avatar universal
by Robert686, Aug 03, 2008
Thanks Emily!
About this site, she said that when she reads about others with the same problems it makes her think of things that she would not have thought of.....whatever the hell that means.  

She originally claimed back pain as the reason for going to the Dr's for pain medication.  The truth is, she became addicted to pain pills recreationally and dreamed up the back pain plan.  
Since this has started, she has been kicked out of several Dr's offices.  They were able to catch onto her pretty quick and she would get busted trying to get more  or get her script filled early.
She also was busted by her doctor trying to hide her pregnancy (she was about 8 months pregnant).  That doctor called the Child Welfare department.  She finally fessed up at that point to me, as I has no idea that she was even taking pills at that point....who would have thought that she would be taking pain pills during her pregnancy..not me.
At that point she went into a 7 day treatment facility and stayed clean for a while.
A while later, I found out through my oldest son that they had been to a doctors office earlier in the day.  He told me that she told him not to tell me.  That was very painful for me.  To hear my son tell me those words.  To know that once again the mother of my children was back on drugs and asking my children to lie to me.

There was nothing more I could do at that point.  I gave up my resistance and told her to have at it.  She was going to do the drugs with or without my consent.  So in an effort to stop her from lying and stealing (yea, she stole money from me to pay doctor bills) I just accepted the fact that she was going to do drugs.

Well, now she wants to quit..or so she says.  But part of me believes that she is only saying this because she is running very short on her pills and cant refill for another 3 weeks.  She has 3 more refills.

She told me last night that she was going to give me the pills so that she could taper off.  BUT she requests that if she tells me she needs more than to just give them to her without question.  
She has been taking anywhere from 4 to 15 a day.  Thats quite a range, but I think that when she takes 4 or 5 its because she realizes that she is at the bottom of her bottle and she must ration.

She is a stay at home mom and I work my a** off to make sure that my kids are provided for.  I do love her, but if it weren't for the kids I would have left a long time ago.  My fear is that if i do leave, she would get custody of the kids (which she isn't raising correctly) and she take all of my money to support her drug habit.    Its a double edged sword.
What a mess.  Thanks for you input, it really means a lot to me.

Avatar universal
by Robert686, Aug 03, 2008
Thanks Rob,
I was typing the last post when you replied.
Man, I hope that this goes smoothly but she is predicting that it wont. She is very afraid of the pain and discomfort.  Its tough for me, because I really need to be focusing on my job.  I'm in sales and my mind cant stop thinking about my kids and how they are being treated.  She's not physically abusive but she yells and screams alot.  I don't even think she knows she's doing it.  
I can't talk to her about this subject, she dismisses what I have to say and has justifications for everything.
Why are drug addicts so good at making excuses? She's so good that she even believes them.
I'm no stranger to addiction.  I was brought up by a father who was addicted to pain pills and alcohol and I battled a coke/alcohol addiction about 17 years ago.  I've been able to stay straight now that I have kids and a demanding job.
Thanks again, I'll keep posting.

Avatar universal
by Robert686, Aug 03, 2008
I'm having a hard time finding the vitamin, amino acid and Thomas detox list.  Could you please copy and paste the link?
Thanks again

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Aug 03, 2008

the main thing is I have learned,,,the drug user has to declare war and make the decision to stop,,,its the only way...period,,,you cant do a damn thing,,,except some TLC...and errand running while the user is kicking the habit...I left my ex because she is an alcoholic,,,,got custody of both my kids and they are my world,,,my ex was very upper middle class,,,an MBA from TCU....was  TCU Cheerleader,,,really was alot of fun times...but she just couldnt kick the booze,,,,that was 8 years ago...and shes still a drunk.....has a masters degree,,,but 3 DUI's,,so been through about 10 ,,,6 figure jobs,,,,shes jobless now,,,anyway,,,good luck man,,,all these tips in these post,,they DO help,,,from sleeping on the couch, to simply saying your prayers....

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Aug 03, 2008

She's afraid of pain? But she claims back pain is the reason she got on pills?  She was taking pills and preggers? Oh no. Active and practicing, or Unrecovered Addicts are good at making excuses because it is never their "fault." Please notice I left out the "drug" part cause an addict is an addict .... I'm a recovered/recovering food addict and I was really excellent at laming others for my problems when I was an active addict.

She's going to thnk of things she wouldn't have otherwise? Oh Robert that sounds really really discouranging.

No, you can't lose your job over this. That's not right thinking. She has to bring herself back. You can buy her a whole grocery list but unless she connects with some people who are successful, and are addicts, it's pretty darn hard to do on your own.

Truth is, she may not be physically abusing the kids (while you are around) but veral abuse is worse than physical esp in the very young child. It hurts them. :(

And yes, Rob is so right. You have to declarre WAR. No rules, no fair fight, WAR on the drugs. You have to be willing to endure any amount of discomfort they toss at you. Lay low when you can. FIGHT like H-E-double toothpicks when you can.

Rob, I am sorry to hear about your ex wife and the booze. We both know where that leads. So glad you have custody. Good ob cutting up the tree, that'll help! ALl ohysical stuff wipes us out but the sweat and heat helps get the Tramadol OUT! Rest and rehydrate friend!

Here's the links Robert686 ...

PAWS Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome Amino acid protocol

Love and healing,

Avatar universal
by Robert686, Aug 03, 2008
Thanks Rob and Emily.
You know, I came back from work tonight and I picked up some vitamins and other things to help her through.  I also told her that I have been researching a little to help me better understand what she is going seemed that she did not like that fact and ignored the vitamin concept.
Its like she does not want my input at all.  She does not want to hear it.  I'm not bitching, I'm just trying to be a voice of reason.  I no longer want to enable this situation.  I just dont know what I can do.  
Rob, you're pretty much saying the same thing my wife is saying.   I just need to be there and listen and only give my opinion if asked...thats hard to do when I see her running through the same cycle over and over again.
Its always the same thing.  "I'm tapering down, I've only had 4 today"  I've been hearing that sh*t on and off for so long that I no longer get my hopes up.  
Now she does not want to give me the pills to help her taper.  She says that she'll feel like she has 'No control", my response was "you have no control as it is"....she did not like that.
I wish this would go away.  
Rob, I wonder if I would be in a position to get full custody of my kids?  
My stress level is through the roof.
Thanks again Emily and Rob.

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Aug 03, 2008
"Now she does not want to give me the pills to help her taper.  She says that she'll feel like she has 'No control", my response was "you have no control as it is"....she did not like that."

She will hopefully think about what you have said and it will rattle her. The posibility of you divorcing her (despite the fact that you love her) and gaining full custody of the kids, which would happen due to her drug use that has been highly documented is pretty scary.

Does she have any idea how tired you are of hearing the excuses Robert686?

In my case, I have to say, I knew something was wrong, but I didn't know what it was. I certainly didn't know it was Tramadol. I actually thought the Tramadol was helping me, because my Doctors told it was. It was only a series of strange happenings that helped me, "run out of pills." I didn't want it anymore. i was done. Sounds like she isn't done?

I hope I am wrong.

Robert696, I was soooo grateful that my husband cared enough to look up Tramadol when I was so ill and going thru withdrawal. It really comforted me. Of course he didn't know what coming off the drug was like from the inside out. But he knew because he could see that I was "dope sick" and then some! But honestly I wanted to find peopel who had the experinece with Tramadol that I was having. It helped me.

I wish you the best luck. I can't believe anyone would be ungrateful for a bag full of vitamins and help. It's just so sad. I would be willing to bet she thinks that the Tramadol is helping her. Tramadol is a real head trip. It's a brutal addiction. The physical side of it would take 4-5 days and by day 10, she'd know she would survive. My concern is that she wants you to do it for her? You cannot lose your job to help her withdraw. She alone will have to do that. ou can only be supportive, she has to stop ... cold turkey eventually.

Sending strength and relief your way Robert686. So sorry, I wish it would go away too. If she'd stop, it would be amazing. I am not sure if she can and or will. I hope she will seriously think about the words you said to her tonight.

Love and healing,

Avatar universal
by jay742, Aug 04, 2008

Avatar universal
by jay742, Aug 04, 2008

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Aug 04, 2008

I read your post at 6 AM,,,just got home from work,,,bear in mind,,,I was taking as many pills as your wife,,,and I have yet to even miss a day of work,,have 2 kids, single dad.....also bear in mind, Im only on day 9,,,so Im a little tired,and a little restless at the same time,,and no where 100%...also, I shoot from the hip,,,,,,so take nothing I in the wrong way....

We are all different,,,and from only reading a couple post,,,I know didly about your situation,,,except from what ive read.....I can almost promise you that your wife is NOT gonna clean aint gonna hunt, cause she has not made up her mind to do it...she's only saying things you want to hear,,I am sure she would LOVE to be clean,,,,,but she is like me when I tell someone I am going to quit smoking,,,,,have said it for years,,did quit once a long time ago,,,,but until I declare war on aint gonna hunt.....

Your wife is hosing your girls love me so much we freak when they are gone for more than a day,,,and I have forced myself to treat them with tons of love,,,as an addict,,and when I have been in self recovery,,,they have no clue anything is wrong...Now while on the trams,,,seems like I slept more than I was awake at times,,,and the girls kind of worried about me...but I always foound a way to take em boating, arrow head hunting,,,skiing, jet skiing and on and on,,,the older one is a scuba diver just like her dad (me)...the 7 year old will be too in the near future...

anyway, the short answer to your question,,HELL YESS you can get custody,,,,I am NO attorney, and laws vary from state to seperate,,and get an immeadite (spelled wrong, cause I am low on energy) emergency custody order,,it's real easy,,,,then the burdens on her to get off her ***,,and spend MEGA bucks,,,in which she's gonna lose anyway....

Now remember, I have NO idea how much you love this women,,,thats on you...but from my chair, I see nothing but YEARS of B.S. ahead in your house,,,I went through the battle of getting my girls,,and lucked out in many ways,,,but the BIGGEST factor was my ex was a waste cadet...Honest to God, I did it without a lawyer,,,but I recommend you go see one, and soon...ask about emergency custody order,,,and price several lawyers,,,check thier stats,,,dont hire some "pro women" attorney,,and expect to win didly....

I have 4 life long buddies and all of us have our kid/ em about the same way,,,the ex's washed out on addictions of sorts...

anyway,,,ill close,,,and remember,,my comments are only from the few post you have posted.....figure out how much you REALLY care about your wife....can you endure 30 years of this s h i t ? or you can keep on fooling yourself into thinking she is going to wake up some morning and be the perfect mother and wifey...I commend her for talking about quiting,,but you know what? she has to,,,,cause your not going to concede to living in he ll for the rest of your life....

I could go on and on,,,cause I have been around the world with all this,,,I didnt even know if I could take care of my kids,,good grief, my little one was 6 months old when I got her,,,was scared to death,,,after about 2 months,,,I could never imagined NOT having them full time,,,we live life, and we have fun...

now if I can only kill the friggin tram/cigg problem/s....once again, only on day 9....but I was taking as much as your wife,,,,read my post,,,you will see I have been forging on for 9 days....dont feel great,,,but FAR from sick,,,and my damn back pain has gone away,,just like Em's...a couple of the days it was a little sore,,,but damn sure nothing to need any PILLS for..

okay, I am rambling....need to get some dinner going for the kids and get my mind off the trams,,,im feeling about 3% better every day......slow but steady progress....problem for me was,,,trams made any and all pain go away,,,also put me in a very relaxed mood,,,now I feel the little toothache.etc..(yeah I need a trip to the damn dentist),,,but do not want ANY pain pills right level is about 40% etc....

keep us posted....How r u Emily?

580109 tn?1218037913
by TapOuT7, Aug 04, 2008
I'm coming off Tramadol. I'm only 21 hours into it and I feel like ****. Any advice? I'm sure I just have to deal with it and I'm willing to do it, but was wondering if you had any suggestions to make it a little easier.
I'm so glad your off that stuff. It's horrible and very addictive (yeah thanks DOC).

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Aug 04, 2008
Jay Im only on day 9 as well....slept fair last night, but had to take a damn valium to sleep....otherwise,,,okay,,have yet to miss a day of a little worried about week 2 here,,cause as in my prior post,,,,week one,,,your bod has a little left in it,,week 2,,its gone,,and I am praying I do not freak,,,I believe its normally about the middle of week 3 before you start to really pan.....but I dunno can read my post to Robert,,you can see I am a little feisty.....but I a okay...just stay the course and we can all laugh this off in a few months...

with love

And, just read all these post is my advice,,,couldnt have got this far with out em...I think B vitimins , forging on staying busy has got me this far,,,its hard to do,,,but NOTHING is worse than laying in a bed, tossing and turning with your skin crawling....

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Aug 04, 2008
PS: Jay, maybe this is my day 10....heck, I am only trying to think about 1 day at a time...I had ONE pill left last Saturday, took it about 6 PM that I guess I will have basically knocked out 10 days about 6 PM today (30 minutes away)....

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Aug 04, 2008

Drink alot of water w/ powdered vitamins in it. Get yourself doing the Thomas Recipe. Here's the link ...

PAWS Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome Amino acid protocol

It's only going to be bad for 4 days, at the worst 5, if you have been taling it a long time or in high doses. There's a ton of tips in my journal, and lots of peopel coming off have also given tips.

Sublingual B-12 tablets
Antihistamine to sleep
Over the counter pain killer (I used excedrin Migraine whenI went back to work and use it now too, the caffeine helps me move .... but for now you need rest)
Immodium AD which helps with the bowel stuff and the receptors in the gut
Honey (better yet, honeycomb though I don't know where to get that) just a teaspoon. This works for me during the Energy Drip.

try to eat high protein foods in dopamine group;

This is just a copy paste of info I found on the net;


Banana: A banana is a good source of tyrosine. Tyrosine is the amino acid neurons turn into norepinephrine and dopamine. Norepinephrine and dopamine are excitatory neurotransmitters that are important in motivation, alertness, concentration and memory.

Beets: Betaine, an amino acid naturally present in certain vegetables, particularly beetroot (beets), is an antidepressant of the first order. Betaine acts as a stimulant for the production of SAM-e (S-adenoslmethionine). The body cannot do without SAM-e, which it produces.
SAM-e is directly related to the production of certain hormones, such as dopamine and serotonin. Dopamine is responsible for feelings of well-being and pleasure.

Chicken: Chicken, like eggs, contains complete protein that increases levels of the excitatory neurotransmitters norepinephrine and dopamine. Chicken is also a good source of coenzyme Q10 (Co Q10), which increases the energy generating potential of neurons.

Cheese: Cheese is a well known protein food . . . Protein provides amino acids, which help produce dopamine and norepinephrine.

Cottage Cheese: One of the “must eat” foods on every expert’s list, cottage cheese is recommended as a substitute for other soft cheeses and dairy products. Cottage cheese provides the protein that can help boost mood and energy levels, without some of the fat of hard cheeses.

Eggs: Research from the University of California, Berkeley suggests that people who suffer from depression have low amount of serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine in their brains. One natural antidepressant is to increase dopamine by eating protein-rich foods. such as eggs for this purpose, because they are versatile and appeal to some people who choose not to eat meat.

Fish: Omega-3 fatty acids are found in seafood, especially mackerel, salmon, striped bass, rainbow trout, halibut, tuna, and sardines.
These fatty acids may have many jobs in the body, including a possible role in the production of neurotransmitters. Fish have easily digestible protein, many trace nutrients, high quality essential fatty acids, low cholesterol levels and low saturated fat levels.

French scientists have shown that rats deficient in omega-3 fatty acids had more receptors for the neurotransmitter serotonin and a corresponding decrease in dopamine in the frontal cortex.

Watermelon: Watermelon juice is fat free and loaded with vitamins A, B6, and C! Vitamin B6 is used by the body to manufacture neurotransmitters such as serotonin, melatonin, and dopamine. Vitamin C also enhances the immune system while protecting the body from free radicals.

Wheat Germ: Wheat Germ is a good source of Phenylalanine. Phenylalanine is an essential amino acid found in the brain and blood plasma that can convert in the body to tyrosine, which in turn is used to synthesize dopamine.
A healthly, balanced diet is rich in whole “natural” and unprocessed foods. It is especially high in plant foods, such as fruits, vegetables, grains, beans, seeds and nuts. Fruits are vegetables are rich in fiber, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants that protect the body cells from damaging. They also help raise serotonin levels in the brain.

Beans and legumes are rich in protein and are healthful boosters of both dopamine and norepinephrine. Also, Protein Meat, Milk, Eggs, Cheese, fish and other seafood are very healthy, high-protein, dopamine-and-norepinephrine-booster food.


I hope this helps. I really would like to get a big list of withdrawal tools together. This will start you off well TapOut. We're glad to see ya!

Day 46 and no tramadol symptoms Rob! Just lethargy! Tired. My day off so I'm laying realllly low! More later.

Love and healing,

Avatar universal
by Robert686, Aug 04, 2008
Wow.  Thanks Jay, Emily, and Rob.
Today she is still tapering.  She says that yesterday she took six.  I don't know how many today, but I know that she is not feeling well.  She made a DR's appointment for Wednesday with her regular Doc who prescribes this sh*t for her.  She is telling  me that she wants to get a blood pressure patch that will help her through.  She is also telling me that she is going to "gently" tell her Doc that she needs some help.  A few years back, when she went to treatment she was given this blood pressure patch that helped alleviate some of the symptoms.  Of course I'm skeptical....we'll see what happens.

On top of the tramadol she takes 1 or 2 xanax a day and a sleeping pill every night (cant remember the name but its a prescription).  

I picked up some L-tyrosine and a natural sleep aid for her today and gave her a copy of the Thomas Detox program.  Not sure if she'll do anything with it.

I've got to admit, part of this is my fault.  We have been together for 12 years and during the first few years we partied all the time.  We were in our early 20's and I was consumed with the "club" scene.  We did a lot of ecstasy and other designer drugs but eventually I grew out of it.  The real wake up call for me was having our first child.  I knew that I had to get my sh*t together and I thought that we were on the same page.  Unfortunately she continued..but secretly.  I never got hooked on opiates but I can definitely see the attraction.  

Now we're here.  I do love my wife.  My concern is for the children.  Its such a roller coaster ride.  Jay, you said the exact same thing my wife says: When on tramadol she's "Super Woman", when she's running low, she is a total *****.  My kids see this and it kills me.  
I work all day, come home and immediately do something with the kids. I feel like they need to get out the house at least once a day so I take them someplace special every evening. She never cooks or bathes the kids.  I've been doing those two chores every day for years. She cares nothing about the kids nutrition as she eats like sh*t day in and day out.  Its me that stresses over these things and I try to make sure that the meal I cook for them every night is well balanced.  

She acknowledges the fact that she has turned into a absentee mother.  She also tells me that its something she can not help as her addiction comes before anything...her health, our relationship, and our children.  
She does not sign the kids up for extracurricular activities anymore, she claims that those types of things make her eat more pills.

Rob, I am reluctant to leave her.  I know that it would crush my children.  Their lack of nurturing from her only makes them want her more.  They can sense something is not right and they vie for her attention constantly, mostly in inappropriate ways.  I'm reluctant because when she is jacked up she is a good wife and mother (aside from not cooking and bathing the kids).   When she's on a lot of tramadol she is "normal". And thats the wife I want.  
Its the other 60% of the time thats really killing me.  

I could give her an ultimatum, but she would probably just go "under ground" with her use again. I also feel like if I leave her and take the kids she'll commit suicide.  I know that time is of the essence now.  My kids are growing up everyday and they are witnessing this.  But besides all of her **** --they are well taken care of (at least in a materialistic way).  Sh*t she is well taken care of.  Fortunately, I have been able to make a good living and pay for things that most dream of (house in gated community, expensive cars, etc)  BUT I would give it all away for the sake of my kids.  When asked if I would take 2 weeks off from work, I knew and know that there is a real possibility that I would return unemployed...but if it means getting her straight I was willing to do it.  Now after reading your posts Rob and Emily, I'm not so sure thats a good idea.  I just think that if I don't she'll play the "kids got to me" card and we'll be right back where we started. In other words, if I'm not there to care for the kids throughout the day while she's kicking, she'll just start using again and blame it on not being able to deal with the kids.  
I've suggested babysitters, daycare, etc, .... she wont have it.

I know I'm rambling, however this is therapeutic for me.  
Jay, Rob, and Emily, I sincerely appreciate your input...its helped me keep sane for the last few days (although I wish that Jay would turn off her "Caps" lock when she posts!!!)  
I'll keep everyone posted and I hope that you all will do the same.
Good luck, you all are doing so good and eventually it will just seem like a bad dream.

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Aug 05, 2008
well **** fear is somewhat coming to a day 10...the trams are out of my system....and I can feel the anxiety...sleeping a tad better,,,but last night and today,,,ugh....reminds me of when I stopped smoking,,,,a few years back,,,made it a year then got stupid,,,,but it went as so,,,first week,,,yeah was tough,,but I thought I was superman cause I was forging on...second week...thought I was going to die...third week,,,not much better,,,,starting panning about the 4th week....

Good Grief this is a mess,,why are we so stupid as to EVER start something that is a living hell to get away from,,,?

I am going to stay the course,,,but it appears its going to get worse before better,,and I was so pumped a few days ago,,,when I thought it was a miricale I was doing pretty damn good for a guy taking 10 pills a day for 3 years..

anyway,,,not to sound so negative,,,,just need to vent....

Robert, the reason your wife is superwomen on trams is cause they are a mood lifter,,,,and you feel no pain,,therefore,,you slow down and smell the roses somewhat,,,on the other hand,,,your right,,,its only about20 to 30% of the time that you feel that good...BUT,,I think we all look for a "feel good" even if its only 3 days a week,,,being clean is definetly better....but sometimes tough as hell...

I am telling you this, cause it sounds like she is like me,,,a good tram high? hell I could re roof the house,,,play with the kids all day long, and hike the grand canyon.....without the trams...hmmm..certianly not a superman,,also, you said she takes zanax??????????? good grief, thats worse than trams...had a girlfriend OD in her home on those,,,wasnt suicide,,,she just couldnt get off of em,,she was 19,,,been a long time ago......also, I tried a half a zanax ONCE...Im a guy who can drink drive, take almost anything and still function,,,,that half a zanax literally made me have to crawl down the hall to my bed and pass out....pal,,,she may need a REAL rehab...I dont know but it sounds pretty bad....shes taking trams to wake up, and zanax to go to bed,,,pretty soon the bod cant tell which is which,,,and its scrambled eggs....Im praying for you and her,,,and im now praying for my damn day 10....

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Aug 05, 2008
(((Robert 686)))) No offense, but does her Doctor know she is on Tramadol and Xanax and a sleeping aid? Does the pharmacy? Sounds like a bad mix. Xanax gave me reflex panic attacks. It has an incredibly short half life. If she's on sleeping pills, she isn't getting sleep. Not true deep sleep. Which is the only restorative kind of sleep. Deep REM sleep, dreams. But then, Tramadol alone will put you into a state of not being able to stay asleep or fall asleep. So, yeah.

"Gently tell the Doc?"  OK. I really hope she comes around. You are right of course about the whole thing being up to her. I actually don't see this as being your fault. People are either addicts or they aren't. It isn't really something that people grow out of.  Not to sound mean. But faking back pain so you can get pills is the actions of an addict.

The only one who can get her out of addict land, is she, herself, on her own. Yeah, it is painful. But ... she'll be dead if she continues the way she is with Tramadol. And the other stuff. It sounds like ... can she go to an actual Detox or is she resistant to that as well. It's pretty easy to OD on the combo you mentioned. Plus, if she's capable of "going underground," do you really know what she is taking? Addicts are Liars. I mean, I say this, knowing that as an ACTIVE Addict with zero recovery, I was capable of hiding anything I wanted from people.

I will also be praying for you and I think you are a kind man to help your kids and try to help your wife.

Rob 809

You write; "Good Grief this is a mess,,why are we so stupid as to EVER start something that is a living hell to get away from?"

Well, the Doctors I spoke with (PLURAL) all told me it was a safe drug. Tramadol, the great miracle cure to get me off Opiates.  Not addictive, not dangerous. The cure-all for chronic pain! I was also in a state of ridiculous over the top untreated pain, so I was in no state to doubt them. They had a responsibility to me which they did not fulfill.

So, I'm very angry at them and at the Drug itself.

Tramadol didn't make me high. It did a little bit at the end there, that last six months when I was upping my dose (again; doctor sanctioned) and also taking anything that anyone would give me because I was in horrible pain. Of course, by then the pain was coming from the Tramadol. But; hindsight is 20-20 right?

I WISH Tramadol had made me into a Superwoman. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE! Sorry Robert 686, I had to caps lock there cause I'm mad. Angry. Stupid Idiot Tramadol Bast-ages!

Stay the course Rob 809,

Stay the course! Don't have automatic amnesia about how bad it was in the beginning. Really remember how terrible it was in early early withdrawal. I never ever want to forget!

It's Day 47 for me and I woke up at 4 am with pain the likes of which i have not had since Day 10? Day 7? I got up ... stumbled around, took some magnesium, some Tylenol PM generic, some calming hers, got some ice packs, stayed on the computer til I passed out again. Took about an hour. This morning was BAD. SO I had some really great days and then this morning; random recurrence of withdrawal symptoms.

By noon it was gone and now I feel good.

Love and healing to us all,

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Aug 06, 2008
Day 11,,,,and it wasnt one to brag about,,,except I have still yet to miss a day of work...could have layed down on the floor and went to sleep at one point at my office,,,,also had a pretty strong 2 hour rush of anxiety mixed in with fatigue....feel a notch better now, im home...but in a state of "what do I do'? kids are at my mothers for the rest of the week,,,I know I should make a decent dinner for myself,,,,kind of feel like taking a nap,,,,ugh,,,this totally *****,,,but I refuse to fall off the biggest problem/s I fall into a deep sleep about 2 AM,,then have to get up at 6,,,im a guy who needs 9 or 10 hours,,,or 7 and a nap....been lucky to get 4 hours in a 24 hour period a couple of times, in this 11 day run.........,,this **** is very draining,,,,yeah I am venting,,,,,and I guess the ones who read my first week stuff were probably thinking maybe "hey, I too can kick this ****"....week 3 best be better than this one...

hope the rest of you guys are doing well....

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Aug 06, 2008
PS: Em, I am still taking 2 valiums at night to be able to get any sleep at all,,,,and you are taking some form of tranqulizer as well right? You know we have a long damn way to go.......not to mention the cigg habit I have must go as well,,,hell I would rather kill it before the pills....but since I am 11 days clean from ANY pain pills,,,,Ill just focus on that for now...I challenge you to read some boards about tranqulizer,,,kloniton withdrawel,,,,it doesnt look pretty..anyway,,,,hope your okay,,,and keep in touch,,,you have NO idea how your stuff helps all of us

544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Aug 07, 2008
Hi Rob809;

Yeah, I use Klonoin for anxiety and I use it for sleep. I used it during the Thomas Recipe/Detox. Sometimes I get enough sleep. Sometimes I get 3-5 hours. It's annoying for sure.

I have tapered off Klonopin before! I thought it was the Klonopin that was making me crazy and possibly making the pain worse. I thought that because Benzos have that bad reputation that well, Tramadol doesn't!

So I tapered down and was off for 90 days? The withdrawal from Klonopin was about as bad as Tramadol for me. It might have been easier in certain ways. Benzo withdrawal did NOT disable me the way that Tramadol has. There were alot of electrical zaps and reflex anxiety. But I was doing youga then, so I think that helped. It certain wasn't as hard on my body as the Tramadol withhdrawal has been.

The Klonopin is great at vanishing anxiety and making me sleep. But of course I know it has to be tapered eventually and then maybe if the anxiety is a product of tramadol and the leg/back pain, I'll be able to stop it all
together. But one thing at a time right?

Love and healing,

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Aug 09, 2008
day 14 for me,,,,,,still sleeping a tad more,,,but still having depresing moods,,some anxiety,,,and missed a damn day of work,,,,,that I couldnt afford to miss,,,,,have few sick time hours on the books,,cause only been on the new job for 5 months,,,and its the death penalty if you use up your time,,,,having 2 kids,,,one with bad asthma etc,,,school about to start,,,,just makes a man sick with the "what if's" ,,,,not too mention my crazed dog ex wife is giving everyone grief,,,had to drive 100 miles in the middle ofthe night to get the girls,,,,cause the ex was in a drunken stuper,,,threatening etc.....all this while trying to rehab my damn self,,,man I could use something,,,not surew what it is I need,,,but I am sure its not tramodol...anyway,,,not trying to sound like a cry baby.....and I guess I am doing good to get to day 14,,,,,,just alot of "other" BS going on and I am kind of down,,,,,

thankls for replying Em...yes,,I cold turkey the benzos about a year ago,,,lasted 11 days,,,couldnt take it,,,,,even though I try to stick to only ONE at bed time,,,,,it was 25 times worse than this tram withdrawel,,,no way I could do both at the same time,,,i dont think.....bout got the trams whipped I think,,,but my mood *****....and I have ciggs and valiums to go,,,UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Avatar universal
by Rob809, Aug 11, 2008
Hey Em

just read the last couple days in your journal,,,,,kind of scares me...I am in day 16 I think,,,,still eating and still eating and functioning,,,,,but my mood and energy levels are wondering if I have "other things" wrong inside....diabetic? etc.. was so friggin tired at work today.....just scary,,,almost feel like those stupid pills were duct taping me together,,,,your at 2 months and still talk of feeling like ,,,well maybe even worse than me at day 16,,,and I feel like ****....anyway,,,im just wondering if ill ever get an energy level...I watch TV,,,see others at work and wonder if they feel like **** as well,,,but just maybe used to it....Im just rambling,,,,ive been on these things so long,,hell, seems like I felt kinda crappy before I was on em...and they gave me a boost.....yes, ultrams definetly have an "upper" built in them....not like street drugs, ICE, meth etc. im sure,,,but a certian level of "get up and go" and mine has got up and gone...

any input?


544292 tn?1268886268
by EmilyPost, Aug 13, 2008
Hey Rob,

Yeah I had to taper really slowly off the klonopin (Benzo) 10% a week until I hit nada. It was a bit scary, but only because I didn't know what to expect. I was so desperate not to feel suicidal anymore I was willing to live with the discomfort. But believe me, I understand lasting 11 days and going back on.

Rob you know I am on Day 54? And I have zero Tramadol side effects. None. I had my car totaled on Saturday by an idiot driver, who made an illegal left. Car is squashed like a pancake. I however, was in a bit of sore-ness and pain but no Tramadol withdrawal. My energy is 90% improved.

The lethargy (lack of will and energy is truly terrifying) I felt like a lump on a log. I was sure none of my energy would come back, but it HAS! It has! in than last few days I feel really good. Soon, yoga!

You're still in the toxic phase. Just keep on doing it ok? I swear it passes and you get better!

Even if someone totals your car ... you STILL feel better than when you were on Tramadol! Withdrawal is a dog from H-E- double toothpicks but ay 16 is too far in to quit!

Hand tight! It is almost done! I promise! Day 25 is sheer magic!

And by about day 51, i was without symptoms of withdrawal! After 5 years. I mean, my car JUST got totaled on Saturday head end collision and even that ... my back pain isn't back. It's soooo nice!

Love and healing,

(((Rob))) one day at a time ok>??? You have my complete respect and support. I KNOW how hard it is! It is sooo worth it ..come this way -------< It's good up ahead I promise!

Avatar universal
by lisa386, Aug 20, 2008 much were you all taking a day?

602112 tn?1219843604
by Lisa0073, Aug 27, 2008
sometimes 30...

602112 tn?1219843604
by Lisa0073, Aug 27, 2008
I got down to 4 a day.  2  in the morning and 2 at night.  

Avatar universal
by Debi17, Jul 06, 2009
hope someone is out 6 here

Avatar universal
by DRW312, Jul 11, 2009
Tramadol is a non-narcotic opiate,with strong antidepressant/seratonergic effects. This means that although it does not have the structure of an opiate and therefore is not screened for with most drug tests, it does have a powereful opiate receptor stim effect and is very opiate dependence creating - should be DEA controlled, but for politics and greed, it is not.  It's available for a lie and 120.00 off of most Rx internet sites.  It also works as an antidepressant, as it stims the seratonin (antidepressant receptors).  Geting off of tramadol is as bad as Oxy/vics/hydros/Morphine or any other opiate, yet the potential for depression may be greater. As stated above-"the Devil's drug".  Most acute W/D symptoms gone by seven days, tendency to want to use is only overcome by the commitment and greater antidepressants like eating clean and working out. Opiate use -tendency LIFETIME unless commitment is number one. How do I know-- 25 to 35 a day for years was bad.  Work-out is a must.  Movement is the only thing that can relieve the torture and keep it at bay.  You must always return to movement or sleep will be scarce. Over-eating from the disinhibition of appetite supression of tram will be an increasing problem.  Other drug use to "cushion" the side effects of W/D will be the tendency.  The only way to be clean and happy is to be Exercising/moving with passion and truly clean.  This must be an overall DETOX process.  Yep! all the garbage has to go or you are still feeding the original monster that led you to the addiction. He'll still be lurking around the corner unless you starve him to death and fill the hole with the antidepressant effect of physical activity, love and a CLEAN DIET.  Another pharmaceutical solution that can "ease the climb into Dante's Inferno is called Suboxone.  It is an opiate agonist/antagonist that blocks many of the W/D symptoms until you are ready to taper off of that.  No matter what opiate or opiate-like substance that you are taking, it takes the brain (esp. Limbic system for you neurons) to adapt acutely to a new dose of opiate.  If you go from 100% of what you are taking, by reducing your dose 20% each time, it will take you five weeks and you will experience a somewhat lesser set of W/D symptoms five long times over those five weeks.  You will still be left with the following 6-12 months to leave the addictions far enough behind to refer to them as "in your past".  Every month will get better.  The first month is the worst and the ideallic amount of time to go from high dose opiate use to return to societal function.  Exercise!!!/constant movement, healthy eating-juicing-etc, love, and deep breathing.  All will really help.  Forget real sleep for the first 7-10 days.  Forgot the most important --- open and honest dialogue with GOD.  Best of luck on the solo-flight, happy landings and next time ----- walk on your own two feet.

Avatar universal
by DRW312, Jul 13, 2009
hey Debi17, Didn't mean to be cold and analytical/descriptive.  How are you doing? Are you still there?
Was the ride too rough?  It's OK to say yes.  MOST people fail within the first week.

Avatar universal
by Haruzzee, Feb 22, 2017
All I need is to stop taking this drugs but I can't do without tramadol, please what should I do to stop it.

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