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Tramadol & Ultram Recovery Room Part 44

Mar 08, 2011 - 265 comments








Good Morning Tramadol Warriors!

Welcome. We're so glad you found us!

You can do it.

Please make yourself at home and snuggle down. It will be a bit bumpy, but worth it!

Love and Healing,

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Avatar universal
by StephC28, Mar 08, 2011
hey all...hope everyone is having a good day!

I need a pep talk. I am in a funk. No good reason, just feeling like I wish I could take Tramadol. I've somehow lost that anger and drive I need to keep it in its place. I "know" it's bad, I "know" I was unhappy taking it...but I need to KNOW it again. Ideas?

Luckily I can't imagine stepping over the theoretical desire to take it and the actual possibility...because that would involve actually ordering it and waiting for it to come and beginning a destructive cycle again. And I can't do that.

I'm at 66 days (I think)...I just want to get on with life! Being sick REALLY threw me. I need to get back on track.

Madtram - I am so sorry about your brother. I hope you have found strength in this tough time. DamnTram - glad your mother seems to be recovering - thinking of you guys.

Hope everyone else is putting one foot in front of the other. Sorry to be such a downer today.

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by madtram, Mar 08, 2011
Thanks so much Steph, it is very tough.  I seem to be stuck in the mud myself, so I feel for your funk.  

I'm sure that being sick makes the illusive energy boost of trams seem more attractive and you know that it's just an illusion, any benefit from the pills comes at a cost none of us want to pay anymore.

You could focus on finding healthier ways to rev up the endorphins.  Nutrition is a biggy since you have been ill.  Are you getting plenty of essential fatty acids & vitamin D?  The latest research suggests that we need higher levels of vitamin D for optimal health, (including preventing depression & Alzheimer's), than previously thought.  Unless you spend most of the day outdoors, most of us need to supplement to maintain healthy levels.

You know the drill with exercise but what else is extra fun for you?  At 66 days, it's a very good time to treat yourself in honor of your great achievement.  

Lastly, one of those weird mind-body evolved connections, "fake smiling".  Just sit there with a forced smile on your face for as long as you can.  It feels very weird but it does lead to an increase in endorphins & is totally side effect free, unlike you know what.

Go Steph.

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by DamTram, Mar 08, 2011
Steph, hard times over here, too.  No job anymore, mom in recovery, dad ended up in surgery this morning for a stone in his urethra, today is the day my ex-students started the standardized tests that would have shown their growth over my last year and a half with them, I've been overcome with migraines and now have a UTI (from what, I do not know...since the probable cause has not occurred in months!).  My insurance ends at the end of the month, and every doctor I go to seems to find more problems.  All in all, here we are with our lack of coping skills.  Wanting a pill is just the 'easiest' way of coping, with the highest cost.  It's ok to be down and depressed...recognize it for what it is, 'relax into it' if you will.  And I did find out my Vitamin D was depleted (blood test) so TOTALLY take MadTram's advice.  "This, too, shall pass".  

Sydney, I did not eat on Tramadol...but that's because it STOPS your metabolism and digestion.  I barely lost any weight, and I was definitely eating less than 1000 calories/day...if that.  I was totally bloated and squishy and gross.  My body had atrophied.  

For all of you dealing with these horrendously life events...I am sending love and strength your way.  Not that you need it, with all of the strength and love that you already have inside of you.  =)

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by madtram, Mar 08, 2011
DT, it must be sad to feel that you are not sharing the benefit of your investment in your students' progress.  It's also especially cr*p to have a UTI without the fun part having preceded it, not to mention the migraines.

If you want to get started on something for the UTI before you can see your md, an OTC product called "Hiprex", (here in Australia), (generic substance "Hexamine Hippurate"), has passed enough clinical trials to be considered as effective by the Cochrane Review, (regarded by the medical establishment as the gold standard of clinical trials).

Hope you feel better soon.

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by DamTram, Mar 08, 2011
ooo, thanks MT!!  i got a different otc med this evening, but will try your suggestion if i cannot sleep through the night.

thanks, again!  we are so fortunate to have you continuing to support us.  =)

all my love.

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by MyFreedom, Mar 08, 2011
Sydney - Same here with the weight loss during tram and then appetite and weight gain post-tram. During the time I was taking tram I was at my "ideal" weight for my height (5'6" and 128#) and early on during my taper the weight began to come back. It leveled off at 14#. Am I happy about that?? Not one bit! Now that I've had some time to basically "get over it" in my mind, I'm okay with it. I've decided that it's much more important to be free from tramadol than to have an extra 14# on me. I still don't like it, but it's the lesser of the two evils I suppose. :P

As for your taper plan... Since it's against the forum rules, I nor anyone else that isn't a dr cannot tell you how to do your taper. ;)  I can tell you that my dr suggested that pattern when I was ready to stop (stabilize intake and intervals, then decrease dose, increase time, etc)....and it worked. As long as you can make the commitment and keep your determination, you can do it too. The fact that my hubby and doctor both knew...I had to be accountable for my taper plan. So that certainly helped. Does anyone know about your use that can hold you accountable? What it comes down to is that you have to formulate a plan that you know that you can handle. I knew for sure that I couldn't quit cold turkey. My one attempt years ago confirmed that. I knew that the only way I could stop was slowly and steadily. Some people like the empowering feeling of cold turkey, but doing a long slow taper really empowered me. I was able to look at that bottle every day and say to it ' aren't controlling me anymore...I control you over.'

Steph (and anyone else in a funk)... Yeah, I still get that way occasionally, but I try to remind myself that being in a funk sometimes is actually normal. I mean, before tramadol ever came into our lives we had bad days/stretches of time. How did we deal with it before tram? Wait it out, try and find something uplifting? Just keep in mind..... You are having "normal people" feelings again. You are no longer masking the "real" person/feelings anymore. Accept the down time along with the good days. Exactly as DT says....this too, shall pass! Sometimes easier said than done, I know....but don't you dare allow that devil back into your life! :)

I totally agree with the Vit D info!! During my blood work early last year, my dr told me that mine was low and she put me on a script for it. Back in the fall the script ran out and I just forgot to renew it...thus I stopped taking it at that time. That's when my plateau hit....I just hadn't figured it out yet that the Vit D was the link. It was about a month or two ago that I started thinking about it again and did some reading on it. The next day I went out and picked some up and within a few days I was moving on from the plateau. I feel really good now. I am only 15 or 16 days away from being clean for a whole year. In a way, it seems like just yesterday, but on the other hand it seems like an eternity ago! I was noticing that our Emily is only 8 days away from being 1000 days free (just 3 months shy of 3 whole years). far out are you? Around 18 months or so, is that right? I was thinking that you are about 5 months ahead of me.

Damtram - In regards to the UTI...I feel for you. Those are the worst. In addition to the med that madtram suggests, there's one that I keep handy that is great. It's called AZO Standard and I believe it's available at most of the pharmacies...walgreens, CVS, etc. When it rains, it pours, huh? I hope things begin to look better for you.


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by rt35630, Mar 09, 2011
went to shrove tuesday supper, had pancakes, fresh fruit, then a mimosa. followed that with a concert by our excellent Camerara in a concert of Handels "Zodack the Priest" and the Requiem by French composer Durufle.

I was busy all day trying to get ready for tomorrow (this afternoon, now!) The rest of the week will be busy, and next week we host the dedicatory concert of our new pipe organ. After that a few slower weeks.

Weather sux here right now. Where's my sunshine?

I've read your posts and concerns. Love to all, especially KD - good luck!

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by DamTram, Mar 09, 2011
MyFreedom - That's the one I got!  The pain still had me waking up every hour in the night, but at least it's not so sharp, anymore.  

During my migraine fits (which have regressed), my mom gave me 2 doses of her Vicodin (separated, of course).  The first one didn't make a dent, but the next day when I tried the second dose...they did.  The pain relief was great, but the opiate 'rush' killed my joy of being a non-smoker.  Smoking and opioids were so inter-locked for me.  I knew that I could never quit smoking until I'd made the commitment to never pick up an opioid again, and there I was...with an opiate.  If desire for nicotine is the 'little monster' that dies after 3 days of not smoking, then it is reborn into a big, giant monster when fed by an opioid.  Since I broke down for those 2 days, I know that I can never ingest an opioid, again.  Ever.  Unless I'm connected to an IV and can't escape and feed the little-turned-big-giant monster.  That was Thursday and Friday, so I've been enjoying being a non-smoker, again, for the last 4 days.  No cravings, for any drug at all.

I had stopped taking the 5htp and GABA, suddenly, last week.  I was schlepping my stuff from my place to my parents' and back and forth, and kept forgetting it.  As serotonin and GABA are both involved in migraines and sleep (and pain...), I'm kind of wondering if my current health issues are stemming from this.  Who knows.  Not my PCP, that's for sure.

I had blood work done at the Rheumatologist, and was clear for Rheumatoid Arthritis but had an extremely high result on the C Reactive Protein (CRP).  I guess this indicates inflammation, but it could be anything from my sites of pain- bladder, tooth root, liver sac (still have an enlarged liver, pushing on its own sac...ouch), joints, or connective tissue.  Given that I have hypothyroidism, interstitial cystitis, and IBS (all prior to Tram), I WISH THEY WOULD GO AHEAD AND DIAGNOSE ME WITH A GLOBAL AUTOIMMUNE DISORDER.  Supposedly, research is showing that's what's behind Fibromyalgia/CFS (which is what MANY people are put on Tramadol for chronic pain for, including yours truly).  Still waiting for the antibody results.  

My fear is that I will be put on prednisone.  I only took it once, but it made me crazy.  My sister was put on it once, and it made her suicidal.  Fingers crossed that there's some other solution.

Seeing a holistic doctor/chiropractor/acupuncturist on Friday.  Hoping for some natural solutions.

I am just sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Happy Hump Day, Survivors!!

Avatar universal
by Sydney0502, Mar 09, 2011
Hi MyFreedom, question about the taper plan you used, when the 4 days were up, did you cut out 1 pill from each dose you took every 6 hours or just from 1 of them.  Which dose did you cut?  I have 3 doses a day, so which one should I cut the 1 pill from (all 3?) or just one, and if just one which one.  I thought the first week, from morning dose, then the second week, from the 2nd dose then 3rd week (4 days) the 3rd one then start over again from the first dose?  Let me know.  If I cut from each dose a day - ie. 8, 8, 8 to 7, 7, 7 that keeps everything consistent but then I have actually cut 3 pills every 4 days.  That is ok with me if that is the way you did it,  Let me know. Thanks.

Oh, and another question about the weight just because Im curious, did you put on more weight than you had before you started Tram or did you pretty much level off where you used to be.  Im hoping it just goes back to similar how I was before, Id hate to think I messed my metabolism up so much I go out of control.


Avatar universal
by Sydney0502, Mar 09, 2011
Also, I think alot of the weight initially is fluids that Tram keeps at bay.  I pee'd less on Tram and seemed to process liquids easier.  Before Tram if I drank 3 sips of water, I would be in bathroom every 15 minutes for the next hour.  I immediatly felt bloated.  Now, I can drink entire bottles one after the other and use the bathroom once or twice.  I know the last time I quit, I got to about 2 weeks (but I was cheating and using Tylenol #3's every now and then for the withdrawals) I started getting very uncomfortably bloated.

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by NoraTorious, Mar 09, 2011
Steph, Mad, Dam, Sydney-I know things are so very hard. I feel ya. But we gotta do like Dory says in 'Finding Nemo' 'Just Keep Swimming'. And yes, smiling and laughing works. I do a lot of it.  I try to watch a lot of shows that make me laugh, and my husband and I are always joking around.

But I have some good news for me. I am trying to be more social again. Sunday I went out with a married couple that my husband and I like very much. We went to a coffee house and had some lunch and sweets, then to a place that sells amazing all natural fruit Popsicles (ice lollies) and got some of those and walked around the neighborhood. Then back to another coffee house in the same neighborhood, and more coffee and tea and chatting more. After that my husband and I did some grocery shopping at this great new market, and then home to make dinner. I did not have the horrible thoughts running through my head as I have in the past; "Did I say something stupid, do they still want to be my friend, why did I wear that, why did I do that" etc. I just went with it. And the next day I met with the VP of the museum I am hoping to volunteer at. That went really well. They liked me, I liked them, I loved the museum and the projects they are working on, so, since I would be working with law enforcement, I have to go through a long application process. I don't mind, since that would mean more time for me to recover properly and completely. Also, I was sooo sore from all the walking we did, my husband and I had parked kinda far away from the places we went to so we walked more than I have in a long time. It made realized how atrophied and squishy I am. Tramadol is a life suc*ker*

I think it is interesting how many of us are having a depletion of vitamin D. I have the same thing, and now I am sure it is from the Tramadol. A lot of us have become 'shut ins' whilst on Tramadol, which would deplete that vitamin D, but I also wonder if this nasty drug might have absorb a lot of important vitamins & minerals from our system.

I found I had little appetite while on Tramadol. I always have to pee, so the only difference I know is my system seems to expelling more toxins than before, for that I am thankful.

I hope today will bring better feelings for all. Please, count your blessings, and realize the amazing progress we all have made. I am praying and thinking good thoughts for all of you, and for MyFreedom nearing 365 days, and Damtram nearing 60 days! Congrats!! Sydney, keep up the good fight, and KD, I am so glad you guys are going to work it out.

Lots of love and good vibes to all!

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by MyFreedom, Mar 09, 2011
Sydney - When I made my dose reductions I cut equal amounts from each one so that my dosage was always equal. I didn't want my body to expect more at certain times of the day. I'm not sure if it makes a difference or not, but it seemed to me that to keep it all equal made sense. I was scared at first about making every thing equal because I had previously felt like I *needed* that extra when I took my second dose of the day (11am-ish), but it actually turned out not to be very difficult to get it all leveled out....only a few days I believe.

As for the weight issue... Before tram I was about 152. During tram I was 128. I am now leveled off at 142 and have been at that weight since I stopped tram a year ago. Most of the 12# that I gained back came before I finished my taper. I do fluctuate a bit depending on the time of the month. It's worth saying, in my case, that I also stopped taking birth control pills (that I'd taken since my teens) about the same time as I stopped tram. I would've have loved to stay them (the birth control pills), but the mfg stopped making them several years ago and I've never been able to find a suitable sub. So...until about a year ago I never really had very much experience with PMS. I suppose the birth control pills I took always kept that stuff in check...but now I get most of the typical stuff....bloating, crankiness, mood swings, etc all during the week before. Yay me. :P

Wow.... never thought about the peeing thing before!! Same here. Good Lord....what all has tramadol done to us?! I certainly go more often now than I did while taking it. Another thing worth mentioning (sort of out of left field, but sort of not, I guess).... Towards the last 2 years of my use I was noticing that when I felt the need to go pee, I HAD to go right then. I was getting to the point where I couldn't hold it as well as I used to....and I am only 37! I talked to a dr around that time and they put me on a med called vesicare....worked perfectly. No more issues. Then when I started reading Emily's journal entries I saw where she had talked about neuropathy (sp?) while taking tram for a long time. I started looking into that a bit and found out that it could certainly have effects on the bladder and the ability to "hold it in" long enough to get to the bathroom. Well....long story short, a few months after stopping tram I was able to stop the vesicare. No issues since. What a nasty, nasty drug tram is.

Randy....Did you send me your weather? It has started getting rainy and nasty here too (NC). Yuck.

Okay.... I've yapped enough! I've got a mountain of laundry to do!


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by DamTram, Mar 09, 2011
I officially hate doctors, which I hadn't before.  My PCP told me that any physical symptoms I have are due "completely" to an underlying psychiatric condition (of which my psychiatrist thinks I have none) and refused to treat even my ear infection.  Even though the nurse said my temperature was 99.2.  My mom was with me, and he wanted to make sure she heard every word.  She had just finished reading 2 articles about Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, though, and was even more irritated at him than I was.  THIS is the doctor who prescribed Tram, THIS is the doctor who kept upping my dose and ignoring the side effects, and now THIS is the doctor that's telling me that the psychiatrist is wrong and I have a psychiatric condition causing the obscenely high levels of inflammation in my blood.  I am so filled with hate and UTI and day 8 of insomnia, that I don't even know what to do with it.  Hate, hate, hate.

Sorry, guys.  I'm just really mad and hurt.

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by NoraTorious, Mar 09, 2011
Damtram, you have every right to be mad and hurt, so let it all out, sister!

MyFreedom-I think I got so lazy, and my pelvic floor got lazy too. But I am coming back to being able to hold it longer. I am sending some Ca sunshine your way.

Am I feeling better because I am 60 + days of the Tram? Because it is so nice and Springy outside? Because I got a good amount of sleep last night? Because we are getting food aid? Maybe all the above, and more.

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by SheLiz, Mar 09, 2011
DamTram - if you can't let it all out here where can you.  Vent as much as you like coz we are all mad at those so-called experts who have messed with our health and happiness.

As for my w/d progress - I still have a bit of a headache due to my neck being out all the time but I realised yesterday that the other headache I had constantly during the first 3 months of Tram w/d (the one where you feel like your brain has been knocked loose and is rattling around in your skull) is defintiely gone so that's another improvement.  
My energy levels are definitely much better and I actually WANT to do things now.  For a year or two now I have made social plans but 99% of the time I would cancel at the last minute as I couldn't face going out.  Now I am looking at my diary and starting to fill it up with a social life.  I'm heading off to a friends winery/mini music festival this weekend and actually looking forward to it.  
I am still in a back brace and have lots of pain throughout my body but even that is not holding me back as much as tramadol and everything that came with it did.  So, even if you are going to go back to physical pain without Tramadol I swear it its worth it.  However, I'm not going to accept the pain and am working hard to get that down to a really managable level.

I hope you are all going well out there.

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by NoraTorious, Mar 09, 2011
It's amazing how many people had issues with being social on the Tramadol. I am glad that has changed for you, SheLiz!! Get out there and have a grand time!!

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by DamTram, Mar 10, 2011
Thank you, Nora and SheLiz!  This is just such a place for positivity, part of me hated to bring in my negative thoughts.  But I was really, really mad.  I went in for the UTI and ear infection, and the urinalysis came back and he goes, 'Yea, there some blood and white cells in the urine, but it's fine.  I guess I should put you on some anti-biotics'.  And then telling me that I didn't have a fever, because a fever is HIGHER than 100.4, but not lower (like my 99.2).  He was treating me like my fever and UTI were ALSO caused by my 'psychiatric condition', but he'd go ahead and prescribe antibiotics, anyway.  My mom never lets me use this word, but she's ok with this instance:  what a SCHMUCK!  Don't know if MH edits for Yiddish.

My psychiatrist called me last night to set up my next appt and when I told him that I hadn't been able to sleep much since the day of my mom's surgery (8 days ago), he said, "Well, what I can I do to help before I see you Friday?" And I almost cried.  I told him I was terrified of sleeping pills and benzos, but he said a couple of nights with a script for only those nights should be ok.  I dragged my tired but to the pharmacy at 8pm and got them.  For those of you who don't know, though, taking Tram long term (or any opioid/benzo/whatever) raises your tolerance for sedatives.  So, I took a 5mg ambien...waited 30 min, couldn't sleep, took another 5mg, same thing...until it took 4 x 5mg pills to finally knock me out!  And this was after a double dose of Valerian, and the regular dose of GABA and 5htp.  

I had a colonoscopy about 5 years ago, after 6 months of pain-killers for debilitating interstitial cystitis, and the anesthesiologist was never able to knock me out for the procedure.  I was awake and groaning the whole time, and was very, very sick for months afterward.  Make SURE, if you ever need general anesthesia, that you make your LEGITIMATE opioid use known.  You will be sorry if you don't.  I think it was MyFreedom (I'm so sorry if it wasn't) who posted about being awake through the whole procedure, too, and the anesthesiologists being like, 'Why won't she go down??'  BAD MEDICINE.

Big ups to the friends in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Indiana...keep up the good fight for your political rights!!

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by MyFreedom, Mar 10, 2011
Nope, wasn't me. Luckily I've never had to have a colonoscopy (looking for some wood to knock on lol). I can say that now that I'm off tram that my tolerance for opiates has returned to a normal level. In the year that I've been tram free I have had only 3 vicodin tabs and one teaspoon of a cough med that contained hydrocodone. The first 2 vic's were taken around 30 and 40 days tram free (was having a really hard time with my back). They actually worked just fine then but caused me to be set back in the tram w/d process. The third vic was around 9 months tram-free (my back again) and and it knocked me out as it would someone that doesn't have any habit-forming issues. I was pleasantly surprised. The cough med was about a month ago when my son got us all sick with the flu. The doc gave him the good cough med (same doc that helped me thru getting off tram). She knew that it was probably going to be used by all three of us so she actually gave us quite a big bottle of it. I only used it one time and my first thought was 'geez, this stuff seems a lot stronger than I remember'....but the worrying part for me is that it did give me that 'oooohhh I like this feeling' thing. That scared me enough to have my husband put it in a little safe that we have in our house and I gave him the only 2 keys to keep. That way I'm sure not to touch it. I don't want or need any temptation from that stuff. It's funny though because there's a few vicodin in the medicine cabinet and it doesn't call my name like the cough med does. Go figure.

So after all that blabbing, I feel comfortable in saying that if I ever have to have a medical procedure done that I should go out rather easily. Everyone's tolerance level should return to normal after you've been clean for a while. You just have to be careful not to rekindle those old feelings.


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by NoraTorious, Mar 10, 2011
I think it is time to rethink the meds. The first 2 are Gabapentin and efexor. I am not sure I need the Gabapentin, and the efexor is making my heart race, and my hands are shaking, making it hard for me to do my artwork. I am not sure about the trazadone or vistaril, but I am not sleeping at night, and having trouble falling asleep. I am sure my Doc will want to reduce the efexor before adding something else in the mix. If I knew I could do it, I would just dump it all, but my depression needs to be kept in check, and most antidepressants just don't work on me. I am seeing my therapist and Dr tomorrow. I am wondering what they will give me next. I am beginning to wonder if I can find the right balance in my body. I just want to be able to draw again, not ruin pictures with a shaky hand.

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by NoraTorious, Mar 10, 2011
I thought things were looking up, and now I find out my Momhas bronchitis. This is hard for her, even if she looks and acts 15 years younger than 74, she had non-hodgkin's lymphoma and so her immune system is not so great.

My dear husband is still having no luck with the jobs. We are now selling his car to raise more money. I am trying to keep a chipper outlook.

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by SheLiz, Mar 10, 2011
Hi All

        DamTram - there has been several members in past posts mention the fact that they had trouble with anaesthetics not knocking them out as they normally would while on Tram so that's a good one to bring up again.

        I'm just getting ready to head off for the weekend and feeling pretty good especially after waking up this morning after a peaceful, unbroken 8 1/2 sleep last night without the use of anything.  

Health and Happiness to you all

1512059 tn?1298296573
by rt35630, Mar 10, 2011
Hello all...Joe's birthday is tomorrow. He will be a measley 28 (I'm 48) and for a while we will only be 20 years apart. In May I turn 49.

Still Tram free. I have had a cold since before last Sunday. It got better for a few days but was a little worse today. I am out of Valerian and 5HTP and no funds to repurchase as of now, but have my multi vitamin and B12 supplements. So far so good.

Lots of positives. My digestive system is pretty much normal. Have I told y'all what a joy it is to be able to pee standing up again. The Tram caused problems I thought may be prostate related, but since it is Takes so much less time! (Sorry ladies!)

I am still dealing with the lack of energy everyone talks about. I am eating breakfast (instant oatmeal when at home, but better energy comes from a McDonald's sausage bisquit.) and taking one energy stacker with it. At home I have severely limited my caffine and sugar intake, so that is part of what is causing me to feel sluggish. It isn't horrid or debilitating....just unpleasant. If I don't eat a small meal at noon I am done for. First time I have eaten lunch regularly in 10 years, I think.

Anyway...lots of stress in my life right now. Not like DT or MT or Nora, so I shouldn't be complaining, but my partner is in the process of opening a metaphysical/spiritual retail business and we really have no money to invest in such. I've sold all my sterling silver, some of it very old, for scrap value (remember I used some of the money to buy a 22 year old Cadillac). Anyway, the last of it went yesterday and was Joe's birthday present to invest in his business - that money is going for print (business cards and bookmarks) and digital (website design) media. After a number of saavy people backed up my assertion that we can't start out of a storefront, we are going with an alternative method for local clients - metaphysical avon!

The constant worry of the money going out and a business that will be iffy in our area is really getting to me, even though I am excited about it. The local wiccan high priestest sent a message of support as there is no way to get herbs and such locally, so that is a client base of about 400 people, and there are more that practice pagan or wiccan or native American spirituality in a solitary manner, so maybe it wiill go. All that really matters is that the business pays for itself mostly. If in the long run, it makes a little money, that is fine, but mainly it is something to do that we like.

As usual, I have read all the posts and everyone is in my thoughts and prayers. We all have our individual life issues, but most of us are Tram free.

Sydney, as long as you have a desire to are in a good place. YOU CAN DO IT! I can't tell you how because I could not follow my own taper plan, but I do feel like you can significantly reduce your intake and make a decision to continue to taper or jump and go CT. I went CT at about six pills a day after a max of 20. I am sure that reduction helped. Regardless, I had 3 really bad days of WD - nothing I couldn't handle, just yucky, and then about three more less bad before it got better. Between day 5-10 or 12 I never knew what to expect, but now, I seem to have stablized to a good situation overall. Just having some mental issues dealing with no Tram, but physically pretty good. Except for the cold.

Love to all....Randy

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by rainallday, Mar 11, 2011
Hello all again.
    Stopping in to say that the 'rest and sleep' self-hypnotherapy cd by Lynda Hudson is still doing its magic. Not only do I sleep way deeper, but Ive lost the desire or thought of any pills besides vitamins. Again, I was taking at least 10 aspirin and 6-10 sudafeds a day for sinus issues, headaches, chronic pain etc. It's been about a week since Ive had any real pain. Also, the 'whole' feeling has returned, that feeling that I'm 'me' again, and comfortable. Many little side benefits also, like when I get into bed I suddenly realize how 'good' the sheets and comforter feel to my feet! It's been decades since I had that.
    O.K. why? My guess is deeper sleep. I still go to bed at any given time, never the same time, and get different amounts every night.Never wake up at the same time either. (recipe for bad sleep and pain) Somehow the cd has fixed the negative consequences from all that. I usually never make it past 15 minutes of it so I can't say what she's really saying lol. Plus I play it low enough that I can hardly make out what she's saying. But it works. thank goodness something did!!
      With all the pain people here are experiencing, you owe it to yourselves to try either this cd out, or whatever guided hypnotherapy you can find for yourselves. Don't stay married to your pains. Try something new. I'm STILL in shock that its working. I STILL go through motions of reaching for the aspirin bottle, then realize I don't even need it. So my guess is that we all have un-tapped healing powers in deep sleep and or rest.
   DAMTRAM, I'm on about page 80, slow going because i've been on a video game binge because I dont have the pain I always got from playing. I feel like a kid again while playing, so I'm letting myself go alittle, and it helps with my DEEP depression over my ever-aging 20 1/2 year old angel cat that blind and deaf and deserves so much better than she has.
She also has been on and off sick with flu, and I can only comfort her so much...She is SO unspoiled, that it makes me depressed. And of course memories bombard me all the time of better times for her. So we wait for her end together. And I cry just thinking about that. However with striking gold with the sleep cd, my improvement I hope will me think of new ways to make her happy somehow some way. In the meantime I'm still reading the book, just not hurrying. I know I'll quit smoking. I'm glad youve re-quit. Now get some deeper sleep!! Pm me if you'd like me to send the mp3 on rest and sleep better hypnotherapy!
     I know some people seem just as addicted to pain and suffering as they are drugs, but my hope continues to be that everyone here finds peace and love and pain-free days and nights. I hope someone can find relief from a 99 cents hypnotherapy mp3 easily bought at amazon. or a 9.99 cd elsewhere. Thats alot cheaper than pills or a doctor.
Cmon warriors, we're getting better every day.

Avatar universal
by Sydney0502, Mar 11, 2011
Hi RT, thank you so much for your note.  It is encouraging to hear you were up as high as me (just alittle lower) and reduced to 6 then jumped.  How much time do you have now?  

I have messed up the last several days in afternoon.  I didnt need to take the extra bit but I obsessed about it so much I took them.  Today, however, I am determined to start my taper for good.

I say a prayer for all of you to be healthy and free of Tramadol or any other drug.  I'll keep you posted how everything goes. :)

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by rt35630, Mar 11, 2011
Hey is day 30, and honestly, I am plagued only by the memories of using ANY pill to change how I feel, and sometimes missing that. My original DOC was tabs & vics. I remember the using days fondly...until I actually think about the tram taking control and I quickly say f*** this s*** and that is the end of it.

I NEVER stuck with my taper plan like you are supposed to do. I would take more or less and at different times. So I feel for you. I got myself down to 9-10 a day and stayed that way for a long time. Like over a month. Finally I got Joe to take the pill bottle and he got me down to 6 a day. When he tried to go to three a day I would find the bottle and take 6, so I finally ran out and quit CT. Like I said, it was not pleasant but 4-6 days of WD is worth being clean from it now.

I still have occasional trouble with RLS or a night of no sleep, but that may be once a week or less, so I just deal.

Rain...what you said about you and your cat waiting for her to cross over together made me cry. You have such a gift of expression, you should definitely keep a journal. I really enjoy reading what you post.

One thing I did this week that was special was my priest and I took the remaining ashes I had kept from my late partner and on March 9, Ash Wednesday, and it would have been Steven's 55th birthday, to his favorite place in the woods  on the Natchez Trace near a beaver pond and she hallowed the ground with a prayer and holy water, I put them in a small hole I dug with a stick, she said a prayer, and I covered up the spot and put a small stone with his name on it on top. He is actually burried in the chapel at our church in California, but I have been waiting since 2006 to take that final step and I hope he was happy.

Steven's birthday was March 9. Today we celebrate my partner Joe's 28th. It is SO important for all of us to understand that life is given to each of us to be lived fully. Even as I was planning Steven's funeral I realized that I was ending an 18 year chapter of my life, and beginning a new one full of possibility. We honor the memory of those we love who have crossed over by continuing to live fully and joyfully. Yes...rough places in the road come up every day...but there are still so many blessings too.

I am thinking that way about my drug use. I think I am in a bit of a mourning stage. I remember many years of pill abuse fondly until I come to the trams an then I am thrust back to reality. Someday - soon, I hope - I won't think about taking a pill every day. But until then, I am so happy to say I am clean.

Keep fighting. It gets better and easier every day. I had a hard time reading that that other people posted before I quit taking the dope, but it is so true. To anyone out there who is petrified of the WD and all that goes with putting the tram down - you are letting the drug win. The worst days went by much faster than I imagined. As they tell you, expect the worst, and you will probably, like I did even in the midst of it, feel prouder about yourself and find an inner strength and peace you never knew you posses.

Be blessed....Randy

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by NoraTorious, Mar 11, 2011
Oh, I am at a loss for things to say. I look at everyone's posts and I feel so inferior in my writing.

My heart breaks for Japan. Some close friends of mine have relatives there, and I hope they are okay.

Meanwhile, I am selfishly feeling sorry for myself. I joined Facebook again in a different guise, as I was having some issues on there (I am sure the Tramadol did not help).  I see some of my friends on there and they have such nice homes, and are going on nice holidays, and here we are selling off our possessions and are waiting for our EBT card from the government for us to buy more food. Part of me wants to pack my bags and leave my husband, my kitties and all my possessions behind. I could sell my wedding ring and some vintage clothes and jewelry, and find a little studio, or move in with my parents, although they would rather see me stand by my husband. I know what I am talking about is money and things, and those can come and go at any time, and that having a good decent genuine partner is so much more important. But I just cannot see that right now. I am being a big spoiled baby and am having a mini tantrum of the injustice of it all. My depression and lack of confidence has debilitated me for the better part of my whole life.

I just don't want to live in my car, and I am having trouble counting my blessings.

Avatar universal
by taperdown, Mar 11, 2011
Hello all,

Quick question.  I have been at 300mg/day for 4 months now, and am just starting to taper.  I am down to 25-50mg pills and no refills.  I will need to purchase at least 30 more online to complete the tapering process and get off this stuff for good.  Does anyone know of a reliable online source?  I have never used online pharmacies.  

Thanks in advance.

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by MyFreedom, Mar 11, 2011
Hello taperdown ~ Posting that kind of info is not allowed. I will say this... The last two times I ordered any online (was about 18 months ago) my credit card info was stolen. The online companies that I ordered from had their payment systems hacked and everyone that ordered from them had theirs stolen and used for other purchases. I had to cancel my card both times and get a new one and wait to be refunded by my cc company for the charges made. Ordering online is totally not worth it in my opinion.

Since you were only on them for 4 months you could conceivably work out a taper plan with the amount you have remaining without any major w/d. You will certainly still experience some w/d, but most likely not as significant as someone that had been on them for a longer amount of time.... Or if you are feeling ambitious, just flush them and get it over with. I know, easier said than done, but it is an option.

Keep us updated on how you are doing. There's always someone around to offer advice or a kind word of encouragement.


Avatar universal
by StephC28, Mar 12, 2011
Hi all - just wanted to say thank you to MT and DT and MyFreedom and everyone else guys are the best. I thought I couldn't get through this last week....but I did...and I seem to have turned a corner. Day 70 today I believe...

Randy and Rain - you guys are constant inspiration. I love reading your posts.

To everyone struggling with family issues, with health, with death, with life in general...this moment will pass. One things is for sure: time keeps moving. Or as Rain says "Cmon warriors, we're getting better every day." :)

My brother and sister in law are in Japan...they are okay....but it's a sharp reminder not to take anything for granted.

Love to all

Avatar universal
by kaz47, Mar 12, 2011
hELLO EVERYONE! Day 61 free from Tramadol for my husband and am so pleased to see so many of you still on here and continuing to be free from this destructive drug. 61 days in and sleep is still improving all the time - rls is still lingering but not as often and only mildly - he can still get anxious and agitated if something happens that worries or annoys him but other than that - GREAT! We took a visit home last week and saw loads of family and friends who all commented on how well he was looking, how much better his appetite is (on tramadol he was just picking at food) and how much happier and more like his old self he seems! tramadol had made him anti social and withdrawn - not at all like he was prior to taking the medication - seems to be a common side effect. Soooooo - for all of you a bit further back on this amazing but bumpy journey of self discovery (or rediscovery may be a better word!) - have faith and be strong - you will find that you will notice improvements - sometimes not as quickly as you would like - but they will happen!

Nora - am so sorry that your husband didn't get the job he went for - he will get something - probably the job wasn't right for him anyway and something better will be waiting around the corner. I am sure your confidence and belief in yourself will get stronger when you start volunteering for the museum - you always come across in your posts as a caring person who wants to give to others - you have always supported those on here seeking a kind word and strength to continue. As for Facebook - I wouldn't worry too much about what's posted on there - social networks don't usually give a full or true picture of what is happening in peoples lives - EVE|RYONE has their high and low points - nice houses, holidays, and cars etc are all well and good but we all know that good health, family, loyal friends, pets, a talent to paint, make wonderful music, make others believe in themselves etc are so much more important - trouble is when it's raining on you it's always hard to see it - believe me, I know what that feels like! I'm sorry life is raining on you at the moment but I truly believe good things do happen to good people so I know your time will come! Hang in there!

Damtram - sorry that you have found it so hard to sleep - but think this is pretty natural after all you have gone through recently - how is your lovely mum doing? Hope she is recovering from her operation. You have done so amazingly well and certainly shouldn't beat yourself up for the odd 'negative comment' You are human and off tramadol you are probably acting more 'human' than you ever did while on it - it's natural to have the up and down days - looking back at my husbands reactions the three years prior to stopping taking it I believe tramadol just kills natural reactions to normal situations - the odd negative day should be a cause for celebration because it means you are functioning in a real drug free world dealing with positives and negatives in the same way those not on medication have to. Also, when things are bad they can (and always DO) get better one way or another. You should feel proud of what you have achieved - I feel proud of  you and everyone on here!

Steph - am pleased you are feeling better - I am glad your family are ok in Japan - I agree such events put everything into perspective - I am glad I live in rainy old Europe with no earthquakes (well not here anyway!)

Sheliz  and Rainallday - remember reading your posts and never thinking we would get there - you 2 are truely inspirational and your positive approach has lifted me and my husband when things were so dark and I felt so alone trying to support him - I never thought we would get here! THANKYOU!!!

Randy - congratulations on hitting the magic 30 day mark - you have climbed the hill and will be starting the journey down the other side - don't worry about how long the descent takes - the journey will be easier here on in!

Finally - Sydney - so glad you are still here - you are going to do this - I have a good feeling about you - don't worry about one step back - you will go two steps forward the next day - remember one hour, day, week etc at a time - I know you can do it - hang on to the thought of how much better your health and life will be when you eventually kick this thing into touch - have faith and keep posting - the good people here will give you the strength and reassurance you need to keep going.
There are a lot of inspirational stories going right back to Emily (god bless her and hope she is well) - when feeling weak just log on and read (and read and read!!!)  - you will find such strength knowing that others have been where you are and have won the fight!

We wish you all a wonderful and peaceful evening wherever in this world you are - bon courage - love and respect as always x

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by rt35630, Mar 12, 2011
As I learn more and more about the situation in Japan my heart breaks. I don't know why this is any worse than New Zealand or any other place in the world dealing with a natural disaster, but the situation with the power plants seems to be at the heart of my worries. are always on my mind. I just don't know what to say. I say I have been where you are, but we always had the support of a generous landlord, friends, and a church community. You sound like you feel so alone. I so hope that you realize you do have this community here, but it isn't going to take the place of real people you can talk and listen to and touch. I love you....yes, yet another almost useless  bandaid, but I hope it helps. If I get a Godwink this week (extra money from a funeral or such) I will find a way to get it to you. I love you, and I love your hubby too.

I have SO been where you are with that concern. I really wanted to be free of all the problems a partner in this situation has, and I was advised by several to move to CA alone and not let him come till he was on his feet. I decided that the "better or worse" thing was important, and Steven blossomed in CA. The bottom eventually fell out from under us again, but I will never regret sticking it out. I hope that what ever you decide is for the best. All any of us can do is our best at the time. I just know looking back that sticking it out was the right decision. I hope if that is what you decide you can say the same thing one day.


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by Txred76, Mar 12, 2011
Hello everyone. I have been reading on this site 4 a couple of days. I googled and came across this site and for some reason was reading posts from over a year ago but kept reading because I can't believe that this drug has been around so long hurting people and I never knew. I was only on tramadol for about a month and a half when I stopped taking it and started having the same symptoms all these people were talking about that took way more than me and for much longer. I found the current forum last night and read all your posts this morning cuz it's all new people from the posts I was reading for the last two days. I definitely understand the power and evil of this drug now. I do want to post more later and get to know all of you and your stories but right now I'm posting this on my iPhone and I'm fixing to take my boys to the Rec center here in town. Right now just trying to keep myself going and busy so I can try to ignore the feeling like poop. You all sound so strong and I think I can learn alot from you. I hope you are all having a good weekend so far. More later......D

Avatar universal
by prisonerofmyself, Mar 12, 2011
I just found this site today, tramadol is killing me. I thought I was the only person addicted to this stuff. my son laughs at me and says its all in my head. You are all my heroes, from what I've read its a long road.

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by DamTram, Mar 12, 2011
Steph - So glad you turned a corner!!  Like Kaz said, there are definitely those days...and sometimes they come groups.  Yay on feeling better!

Kaz - I LOOOOVE reading your writing!  Are you an author of some kind?  You should be!  Thank you for your words...they are so, so true.  My mama is doing's bizarre, but I will take it.  Being unemployed now, and her in recovery, we have been able to spend loads of time together.  It's been long my life was consumed by my job the last 3 years.

Randy - Thank you for continuing to pick up others, while still dusting yourself off.  Your words never fail to inspire.

Rain - I am so glad that you are feeling better and are getting through the book!  If it takes months or years to finish, it doesn't matter.  At the end, you'll be a non-smoker.  Stress-free.

Tx and Prisoner - WELCOME!  This journal is a every sense of the phrase.  Please don't hesitate to share thoughts/experiences or to ask questions.  I know we can't advice about tapering, etc., but we have loads of suggestions about how to make the recovery process easier.  The road might be long, but it is well-paved and the sunshine gets brighter and brighter.  It is a road we must all eventually take because, you are right.  Tramadol kills.  

Although my life has become filled with blood-tests (3 in the last 5 days!) and ultra-sounds, I am confident that whatever is going on with my liver, cholesterol, and whole-body inflammation, that I will get through it.  My psychiatrist prescribed Ambien, which didn't work I mentioned, but then he tried me on Trazadone and I slept for 12 hours last night!  I was pretty groggy today, but at least I know that there is something that I can take if I ever have 8 days without sleep, again.  HURRAY!

Japan, Oklahoma, the Bronx, China, and the states fighting for unions...devastation with an equal match of strength, courage, coping, aid, and good will.  I see survivors all across this country and world, and I am more inspired by the hour.  All my love to those with family or friends affected by the happenings in the last 24 hours, wherever they may be.

<3 <3 <3

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by rt35630, Mar 12, 2011
Tx and especially prisoner....I have found more support and help here on this wonderful (and almost unbelievable) forum than I found anywhere with dealing with my tramadol journey.

Like most of us, I have made it my mission to get the word out about how dangerous this drug is. I have a group of college interns who work for me and when I hear about the use of tramadol recreationally on the local university campus I am terrified. It is called the "I don't give a s*** pill." As I told the person who told me that - they better wise up or they will soon find out they are very sorry for the situation this drug gets many people in in such a short time.

The good news is that the control tramadol takes over you can be broken. It took me a while to take the plunge and just say thats it...not one more....but I got there, and no matter what you read about how horrible the detox is, it is my feeling that most can make it through the rough 4-5 days.

While tramadol has been marketed as safe and not likely to be habit is. There is something about it that to me seems worse when coming off than say lortabs. But like all drugs....ultimately, we ourselves give them the power over us that they have, and we can take that power back.

Like they say in NA, as long as your desire is to stop are on the right path. Please check in daily or more often and share openly. You will only find support and love here.


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by DamTram, Mar 12, 2011
Like Randy said, it was marketed as non-habit forming because it was approved by the FDA with such a label for a 3-month study that showed such.  Studies as early as 2001 showed that this was not true.  Emily linked years ago to a web page titled "Rats Like Tramadol", but it was actually a Conditioned Place-Preference (CPP) study on Tramadol's effect on rats.  CPP is exactly what it sounds like - an animal will prefer to be in a place in which it spent time on a particular drug.  I did research using CPP on rats in 2004...for COCAINE (again, I believe all of my Tramadol suffering was the universe's way of getting me back for my part in animal testing).  But, yes.  The combo of the synthetic, partial-opioid agonist (pain-killer) WITH the seratonin/norepinephrine reuptake-inhibitor (anti-depressant) causes immediate feelings of 'pleasure' (we all know that it is not real pleasure) and the need to continue taking the medication.  

That's the reason he, and most others, have had an easier time getting off of this than Lortabs (and for others, any opiates).  TRAMADOL WITHDRAWAL IS LIKENED TO STOPPING EFFEXOR COLD-TURKEY.  Except that's only HALF of it!  THEN you have the opioid withdrawal...and remember, TRAMADOL ISN'T EVEN A NATURALLY-OCCURRING OPIATE.

While trying to explain the nastiness of Tramadol to my rheumatologist last week (during my first meeting with him), he kept saying that it would be illegal to put an anti-depressant in a pain-killer and not market it as such.  He kept saying there should be a class-action lawsuit.


And when Randy said 'most survive the first 4-5 days', he doesn't mean that people have dies...he means that they have decided to go back to taking Tramadol.  I got a little confused at first, but that's what you meant, right Randy?

I asked my PCP's nurse (before I dumped him for being a schmuck) if she knew anything about Tramadol.  She said she knew a lot, because she also works in the mental health field and a lot of her patients take Tramadol to sleep at night.

She says they definitely only take it at night, and it helps them sleep.

Is that even possible?

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by Txred76, Mar 12, 2011
Thnx Randy and others. I know that you can't advise on tapering or any of that and honestly I'm glad cuz I decided when I realized what this nasty feeling was and all the symptoms that I was gonna taper and do it quit. Unlike alot of
People on here I looked into that bottle when I realized it was why I was sick and I was mad. Mad at the drug, mad at the doc, mad at myself for being so easily taken in by a pill and the need to not be on pain and I wanted them gone. No struggle here as far as wanting to keep taking them. I really want them out of my life. I was taking 2 50mg 4 times a day. After I realized I was having withdrawals and reading all the info and forums out there about it I decided 2 let myself have a small dose so I could function a little better and go down from there and FAST! I took 2 night before last before bed, 2 last night, then I'm going onto 1 for 2 nights, then a half a night for 2 nights and that's it. Already flushed the rest along with every remaining prescription bottle I could find in my house this morning. Even naproxen. Lol I'm feeling a little better than CT but still tired and kinda agitated and of course not sleeping at night but I'm taking calcium and vitamin d3 during the day and that seems 2 b helping a little. I guess the only question I have and not even sure anyone can answer it is if it is ok to take melatonin while still tapering off tramadol? I'll google and looks around to see if I can find an answer too. The one thing driving me nuts is that my face keeps being on fire. Just out of no where it will get super hot and red like I'm running a fever. Sooo aggravating in Texas where it's already so hot and humid. Ugh! Lol hope u r all doing well this evening. :)

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by madtram, Mar 12, 2011
Txred, your reaction was the same as mine, when I realized that it was the tramadol that had been causing me to feel constantly unwell.  Thank goodness, you were only on it for a short time, which is not to dismiss your very real symptoms but the odds are good that you will be well over the worst in a week from now.

There are no contraindications with melatonin & tramadol & it may well help improve your sleep during withdrawal.  The hot flash thing is unfortunately especially common in withdrawal.

Steph, so glad you are feeling better & even happier that your brother & his wife are safe.  Brothers are extra precious for me.

The level of devastation in Japan, so soon after Christchurch is mind blowing.  What will this mean for our world?  A large number of the relatively tiny population of Christchurch can not face staying there now but where can the population of Japan's largest island move to & how many other Pacific rim countries are going to be affected by this increasing geological instability?

Nora, I understand how you feel about economic stability.  At age 50, I am living off savings & accumulating huge student loans & we live in very modest pretty much student level accommodation.  By comparison with the days of my senior executive role, if measured in material terms, our lifestyle has gone backwards in a major way.  However, our quality of life has actually improved in terms of much more time together when we are not completely burned out by our day jobs.  All our friends have much nicer homes & sometimes I do feel inferior but especially now, it's easier to focus on celebrating meaningful relationships.

Go well warriors.

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by rt35630, Mar 12, 2011
DT - to clarify. I actually have had a HARDER time coming off tramadol than I did the real thing (hydrocodone), While I have been lucky or blessed, however you choose to look at it, the tramadol is definitely worse in my book. I slept while detoxing off the tabs/vics and basically I felt fluish for a week. With the tramadol, I did not sleep a wink for 3 days, and I still have trouble sleeping. I am getting 4-5 hours a night which is more than enough. But I miss laying down at 10 or 11 and having a good relaxing night. I did not have the RLS stuff with the tabs/vics either, nor feeling anxious.

What I mean about 4 or 5 days is for me that was the worst of the tramadol withdrawal. I worked on day 4, and was off on day 5, and then went back to my normal schedule. I won't say the second week was much fun, but I was functional. So what I meant to say was if you can make it through the first 5 days, you can make it period. I mean for real. Before I decided to quit, the full day one onset of WD made me crazy and I would find some pills. When I decided to quit, I knew it would be bad, but what I did not realize was for me it was bad - no it sucked, but that was okay. Everyone on here had said just be okay with not being okay and deal with it and the things like the DVDs or Netflix, the Thomas recipe, the RLS med from Hyland's. Whether or not some of the "meds" I took really worked or not early on, I don't know, but it made me feel like I was doing something for myself. Because of everyone on here, I KNEW I would be okay and get through it. The power of everyone's getting clean experience on here and your sharing of it became my power. That is really incredible.

Honestly, while I am still not myself 24/7, I am happy for the most part with everything except being sober all the time. I am having a hard time with that part. Yes, I have taken a valium a couple of times when the sleep was just not there in the second week, and I have had a glass or two of wine, and one night I allowed myself my favorite cocktail at a restaurant (rusty nail) which got me a little tipsy before dinner and that was nice. But I am working hard at getting used to the fact that I can't take a pill to make me work faster, relax when keyed up, just to be high, etc. It doesn't work for me.

Unlike most of you, I have a big problem with self control when it comes to pharmacuticals. If I have them in the house, I will take them. Why alcohol doesn't do the same thing I don't know. But I won't keep it in the house either. I have never been an everyday drinker and I am not ready to give up a drink every now and then...but I realize I may regret that decision one day. Hopefully it won't matter, but I am not stupid. I think I am wise enough after the tramadol experience to be VERY careful even with a glass of wine.

Joe's birthday last night I had a half a glass of wine while his brother/sis-in-law and he got silly. That was fine. I was perky today and Joe had a hang over, lol!

I will shut up. I love all of y'all. Like MT and the rest of you, the conditions of devastation and unrest around this world and in this country and among my friends are heavy on my mind. God be with us and grant us peace.  Randy

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by DamTram, Mar 13, 2011
Thanks for clarifying, Randy.  =)

So, I just survived my first Bikram's Yoga class in almost 2 years.  I tried to go once in October, during Tram, and had to walk out and then threw up.  As Emily has said, it's 90 minutes of 24 poses in 105 degree, humid heat.  I used to love it, before I no longer had the time or energy to exercise.  Every since I survived Tramageddon, I've been waiting to not be sick or caring for a parent to be able to go.  I was terrified that I would start to pass out again and have to walk out, but I DIDN'T!  I didn't even have to take a break or lie down!  

I was stronger today than I was in October, on Tram, even though I'd been working with a trainer for a year and a half at the gym until October.  I've heard things in the last few months about Bikram's being really, really good for Fibromyalgia and Chronic I'm really going to keep going and see if this can be a large part of my coping with chronic joint pain.  I was achy before I went in today, and now I am totally made of jelly and ready to take a nap.  =)  

I hope you guys who are in post-30-days of recovery will consider looking for a Bikram's nearby.  The first month is $29 unlimited.  What have you got to lose?  And it's EmilyPost endorsed!  =)

Hoping your Sundays are as relaxing as can be.

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by rainallday, Mar 13, 2011
lol Damtram 'tramageddon' made me laugh. It's so true though. What an emotional roller coaster it's been. I won't be doing and 'Bikram's' too soon...I can't even touch my toes much less bend into pretzels while excercising thanks!
I'm still thrilled just to know I can sleep well. Also thrilled not to be taking any prescriptions.
     I've watched youtube alot the last 2 days and to me, it looks like they underestimate the tsunami just like 2004.
Japan is in a whole world of crap. I'm afraid the casualties could go much higher than they let on. And to think I just watched 'Grave of the fireflies' last week. So sad for Japan.
CONGRATS KAZ, DAMTRAM, NORA, MADTRAM, STEPH, RANDY, SHELIZ, and anyone I forgot. Sometimes it feels like we should have an AWARDS ceremony!!!!! Warriors we definately are! Never forget what 'tramageddon' was like!
Well gotta run, stupid work waits. plus I'm an hour behind!!!! Dumb daylight savings is stressful!

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by DamTram, Mar 13, 2011
i can't touch my toes, either...but that's thanks to my muscles closing up from Tramawasteland.  but i'm way closer to my toes than i was yesterday, that's fer sher!  SO GLAD YOU CAN SLEEP, rain!  AND 70 DAYS?!  i hope that YOU are celebrating!  i had a comatose nap after yoga, and i can't remember the last time post-tram i had a nap like that.  i'm hoping i can sleep tonight, bc i can't have food or water after midnight for the 8am ultrasound.  that might end badly.  

i'm interested to know if anyone has had any liver problems post Tram?  i mean, i know you wouldn't know until blood came back abnormal or it became big enough to push on your liver sac...but i figured it was worth asking.  

i'm sorry to say that the enlarged liver may be due to my 10lb weight gain post Tram.  back on the wagon!  no the Tram wagon, though.  don't worry.

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by Txred76, Mar 13, 2011
Hope everyone had a peaceful or productive weekend whichever you preferred. We cleaned house then took the boys fishing and did alot of walking down the bank and I even got a nice sized bass. :) it was nice. But the odd event of the evening was that I took my last whole tramadol. Only one left that was gonna b cut in half 2 take the next 2 nights but after about an hour I got real hot and my face was on fire and I got sick to my stomach and threw up my guts. Not sure what happened. Never got sick taking them before. So I decided that was my sign and I won't b taking the last one. Just curious if anyone had any thoughts on why that would happen? O well I'm glad 2 be rid of those nasty things. Wondering if I'll have worse withdrawal symptoms something tells me I won't but if I do I'll deal with it. Can't wait to finally start my clean day from tramadol countdown. And get 2 where you all are. :) damtram sending good thoughts and lots of prayers your way for your testing tomorrow. May you be healed of all your medical issues new friend.

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by DamTram, Mar 13, 2011
You're withdrawing from opioid, Txred...some of us experience vomiting or diarrhea.  But remember...that part won't last more than a few days.  And YOU CAN DO IT.  Thank you for your thoughts and prayers...I appreciate them so much, as I'm still worried of the outcome.

Let us know if you need anything!!  Good luck!  Today is your NEW BIRTHDAY!!  Happy birthday to YOU!

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by rt35630, Mar 14, 2011
Txred...DamTram is right. When your body figures out it ain't gettin the chemicals it will let you know. I could go about maybe 8-10 hours before the full onset of WD. One of my first symptoms would be a bad gag reflex.

Just remember, you can get through the WD's the worst of which last 3 maybe 4 days. It is very unpleasant but YOU CAN DO IT!

For me, it went by easier and faster than I expected, just know that for 3-4 days you are going to be sick and feel very strange. The other side comes quickly. And then you have several days of very irritating but less intense crap to deal with.

If you need to vent, let it out. We understand.

Sometimes family members have a difficult time with the longer lasting negative effects, so be prepared to give them a break. Explain carefully if you can, and put one foot in front of the other and keep on truckin....The more you can get outside and walk, get sun, the faster and better your days will be.

I second DT - Birthday Blessings upon you...Randy

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by NoraTorious, Mar 14, 2011
I am sorry I have been such a downer lately. I know things will look up. It is just so hard, and I get so frustrated. Things are a tiny bit better. My husband sold his car, so we have rent money, and we got our food stamps! And they made it retroactive so we have $700 dollars to spend on food this month. And we have to spend it all in one month as it does not carry over.

And I have been a social gal, I called up some friends of ours and we hung out with them all day Saturday and into the early am. We did copper enameling and ate ham. Sunday, I slept. Going out, walking around, being social has been very exhausting for me, but I am glad I can actually do it and enjoy it.

I see what is going on in the world at large, and it breaks my heart. And it does remind me, in spite of everything I do count my blessings. I see my husband, so admiring of me and so wanting to please me. My kitties so loving and affectionate, all of you on here, and I just keep reminding myself, "there is hope around the corner". Prisoner, TX, welcome, and just keep fighting, it does, and will get better!

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by rt35630, Mar 15, 2011
Thanks for the update Nora...keeping my fingers crossed.

I am not happy with my main job right now. There are communication issues going on and I really can't do much about it. If I shut up and don't do anything until told to do it, there will be problems, yet, when I take initititave, I seem to get in trouble for that. Yesterday I got in trouble for sending an email my boss told me to send. At least she admitted to the person she told me to send it. So she said.

I take credit for my mistakes. I am worried that my new boss is blaming me for things that are not even mistakes, but just things that random people don't like.

GRRRR......I am at the 30 day point and I don't need this temptation to use (anything.)

I hope I am just fearing the worst. My emotions have been on my hands (again) since giving up the trams. I like being detatched somewhat when it comes to work....Miss that.


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by MyFreedom, Mar 15, 2011
Randy ~ My husband has a boss like that. It's always damned if you do and damned if you don't with him. It's just ridiculous. The boss certainly knows exactly how to keep him stressed out.

Hang in there!

1 Cor. 10:13
...God is faithful and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

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by NoraTorious, Mar 15, 2011
Randy, MyFreedom, I had a boss like that too. I started to journal it, and I just did what I thought was right.

Congrats to both of you, hitting 30 days, and so close to 365!

This daylight savings is kicking my ***!!

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by rt35630, Mar 15, 2011
I talked with my boss. She is trying to be supportive, but since she is new, sometimes she is letting people rag on me. (Not her words) but I understand. It isn't a huge deal, but with a new administration, there are a couple of people in the governing body who want something to grab onto and ***** about. It seems to be me. For two years I did the job of several people and was the golden boy who could do no wrong. How quickly things  can change. As long as I feel my boss has my back, even if she lets people get away with ragging on me about insignificant things, I am ok. She is the only person who can fire me and she said point blank that I was getting over-worried and making it way more than it is. I am going to have Faith. Lord....must head out to the dedicatory recital of our new pipe organ. An 84 year old German is playing....Pasting on smile!

Hugs all...

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by NoraTorious, Mar 15, 2011
Randy, I daresay you might be having organ envy?

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by rt35630, Mar 15, 2011
Do I take the bait or not? I prefer the one I have waiting at home. But the concert went well. Herr Rohlig was charming in the many comments he made between his pieces, and we had a good audience. The downstairs was full. I worked from 9 this morning and got home about 9 tonight. Get to do that again tomorrow. Planning also started today on the next organ concert in our series. The guy coming this time is my age and a long-time friend so I am looking forward to an easier process planning this one. But I am really glad the way things turned out tonight. I felt like the golden boy again :)  -Randy

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by Txred76, Mar 16, 2011
Ok so here I sit at 5 am. Whopping 2 hours of sleep if u count tossing and turning and punching the pillow in between a kind of half dozing. I don't know how much longer I can take the no sleeping crap. If I didn't work 10 hours a day all week long and could lay around being exhausted all day it might not be so bad but I feel like I'm ready to crack. How long can a person go like this? I just sat on the side of my bed and cried my eyes out. You'd think that would make me sleepy. Nope! Just venting. At least my boys are out for spring break this week so I don't have to get them up in 30 minutes. Trying real hard to find something positive before I throw my bed out my window. Ok I'll quit ranting now. Ttyl    Diana

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by DamTram, Mar 16, 2011
Diana, the positive thing is YOU ARE KICKING TRAMADOL'S @$$!!!  Yes, the poison is leaving your body and clinging to all it can on the way out.  Have you tried melatonin?  Have you tried GABA?  You can get both at the health food store, and melatonin at just the drug store.  GABA saved my life.  Valerian root, too.  And the Hyland's Leg Cramps PM with Quinine?  That saved my life, too.  Are you soaking in mineral baths?  These are all things that calm the body down.  And as my dad has always said...EVENTUALLY, sleep WILL come.

Good luck!

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by Txred76, Mar 16, 2011
Thnx dt. I have tried melatonin but not the other. What is GABA if you don't mind me asking? I guess my biggest prob is that I fall asleep for about 2 hours, 3 tops. Then I wake up and can't go back 2 sleep so that's all the sleep I get. Ugh! Anyway thnx for your help. :)

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by Txred76, Mar 16, 2011
Got me some 5 HTP today and started taking it to see if it will help any. Keep your fingers crossed! Hope everyone else is doing ok with everything. :)

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by NoraTorious, Mar 16, 2011
Oh TX, I know, believe me I know how you feel. That is the worst part of recovery is the lack of sleep. DanTram mentioned some excellent things to help you, let me add a few more. Exercise of any sort, and to give yourself some energy, B12 sublinguals and EmergenC. That helps me get through the day when I have not slept. My dr gave me another pill to help with my sleep, on top of all the others I am taking. And it is not helping so much. Instead I am waking up after about 4-5 hours of sleep (same problem before I started taking this), and I am waking up groggy. I shocked my husband by asking for coffee this morning. I have not drank caffeinated coffee in over a year. Tx, if you have an iPod or mp3 player fill it up with your favorite tunes. Look for things to watch online. Favorite videos on YouTube, TV shows on hulu, and if you are a librophile like me, the Gutenberg Project has oodles of books to read, Jane Austen, Bram Stoker, Lewis Carroll, it's all there. And you can come here and write whatever is on your mind. There is bound to be someone awake on here. I will get on here more often.

I am beginning to wonder if my sleeping is being affected by my surroundings. While my husband is a calm, patient, mild mannered man, in sleep he becomes a different person. Running, flopping about, yelling, and snoring. In my early Tramadol/Valium days, it did not bother me, but now I am super sensitive to it. I think this is a mental thing that I need to take care of. I am having a hard time relaxing and mellowing out, and 'relaxing' into it.

Having EBT means we have to use all of the money for the month because it does not carry over. And they gave us a retroactive amount. What does this mean? We have to spend 700 dollars in the next 2 weeks. We got bagels, cream cheese and lox, which I had for breakfast, along with a homemade latte and some tangerine juice. At least we can eat well at home! :-)

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by Txred76, Mar 16, 2011
Nora, shouldn't be hard 2 spend that much in 2 weeks with the price of food these days. Lol my suggestion is to buy a bunch of non perishable stuff that you can stock up on and then you will have it. I'd put it in closets or wherever you can make room. Ok so I'm just a clueless
American but what is lox exactly? Is it good? Thnx for all the suggestions everyone.

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by rt35630, Mar 16, 2011
lox is barely cooked (I think) salmon. I only like salmon smoked in a wood fired steam smoker for six or more hours. I had so much salmon of every type when I lived in California if I never have it again, I will be fine, but I did have it fixed in many interesting ways. In general it is to gamey tasting for me, and lox is my least favorite version. But to each his own. It is on the fancy end of things.

Nora....if you can stock up on non perishables, then maybe some of the farmers markets in your area will take ETB! I so, so miss going to the Sarataga High School farmer's market. Fresh veggies of every kind like bok choy and a special mushroom vendor. Yummy....I am missing my old home now.

Still tramadol free. My boss made me clean out and organize the church attic storage space today, so I am hurting...up and down stairs so many times! To her credit she helped. But oh....I took a handful of ibuprofen just now so hopefully that will help. If I can just sleep. "Please, me get some decent sleep....I worked 12 hours yesterday and 12 hours today, so I deserve it!"

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by SheLiz, Mar 17, 2011
Hi Everyone

                 I've been away for 5 days helping to run a folk festival at a friend's winery.  It was a fantastic weekend as it always is but this time I really felt that I was THERE.  There were people there that I have know for years but have always kept at arms length but I'm now starting to let them in.  It was quite an emotional and totally inspiring weekend.  I actually cried all the way home (I was driving and it was a 2hr trip) because I really felt that I am finally waking up from a very long period of being emotionally dead.  I no longer want to stay locked in the house on my own.  I no longer believe that people drain my energy. I no longer believe that if I do too much I'll die.  I want to get out and socialise and exercise and live.

                 I'm not sure how many days free I am now but it would be over 110 I'd say.  I remember being at 90 days and thinking 'Well, it's 3 months now, I really should be noticing more improvement' but was feeling a bit flat and worried as, although I'd come a very long way in my recovery, I still didn't feel as alive as I'd hoped.  Anyway, I'm feeling it now!!!! I'm ALIVE, I'm BACK and I'm DANGEROUS!!!!!!!

                Kaz - I'm happy that I've been able to help and I hope that this post gives you both even more hope.  (although I know I will have bad days to come it doesn't matter when you know there are great ones as well).  

                Rainallday - yep, we all need a big Pat on the Back (is that just an Aussie expression?).  You are catching up to me very quickly :-)

                DamTram - Love "Tramageddon"

                I'm still reading through the weeks worth of posts that I have missed so haven't caught up with all the news yet but I'm hoping you are all well.

                Thanks to all those here before me (MadTram, MyFreedom, Beth, ImDone and the others who, in the early days, convinced me on a daily/hourly/minutely basis that it really would get better.   You were right :-)  Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you.  


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by DamTram, Mar 17, 2011
Lox is salted, smoked salmon.  It's a Jewish thing, and they started feeding it to my once I could chew.  Lox, cream cheese, and bagels are a favorite meal of mine.  My stomach is freaking out thinking about it. ultrasound revealed Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease, and they will hopefully figure out if scarring has begun...because, otherwise, it will turn into cirrhosis.  I had the same thing last March and ended up in the hospital because of it, but this time...I believe it was because of the quick weight gain after getting off of Tramadol (I was just SO EXCITED to eat, again!).  Back on the horse.

Also, a cystoscopy (bladder scope) confirmed interstitial cystitis/painful bladder syndrome (with which I was diagnosed 6 years ago), but the doctor couldn't even finish looking around because he couldn't fill my bladder beyond 1/2 the normal capacity before I would start crying out.  They go in to your urethra with 'numbing gel' and nothing else, so I was a really big baby.  

Lastly, the teachers' union is going to fight against my old principal and the board of ed on my behalf so that I can one day teach again.  Tramadol may have clouded my dealings with my principal, but it turned out that she was still way out of compliance in dealing with me.  HURRAY FOR JUSTICE!  Only, my old mentor told me that my students took my leaving 'very hard' and were 'completely heart broken'.  I think it's half because they guessed it was against my will, but who knows.  I miss them horribly.

Mom had a chest xray and she's totally recovering and the pulmonary oncologist said, 'see you in 6 months!'  She goes back to work on Monday.  It was a cancer miracle, this whole thing.  

I'm on my 4th day of steroids to try to get the enlarged liver to be less inflamed, and I'm starting to feel pretty icky.  Tomorrow is the last day, and I know I'll have a 2 day steroid crash after that.  Not looking forward to it.  Luckily, my wonderful psychiatrist is overseeing my sleep now and last night I was able to sleep 8 hours without even going to the bathroom!!

Hope every out there is well...1 day til 60 days for me!  YOU CAN DO IT!

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by NoraTorious, Mar 17, 2011
Oh DamTram, I am sure you make it proper, with capers and the like. I am going to have to do a smear tutorial with my goyim husband. He always puts the minimal amount of cream cheese on the bagel! I had it again for brekkie, and the cats were going crazy! I wish you the best with being able to teach again. Good teachers can be hard to find, and from what I have gathered from you lovely posts, you are decidedly an amazing teacher! I should be so lucky to have been taught by you!

Tx- you would think it would be easy to spend 700 dollars in 3 weeks, but it is not. I realize what a simple life my husband and I have. We eat a lot of veggies, pasta, cheese, tofu, very little red meat, and some fish. It's just us and our two kitties. I wish they had EBT at the farmer's markets here, but of course, they do not. My city can be such a backwards little town for all the swagger it puts up, trying to be a big city (only big in population, IMO). But there are good markets nearby that sell great produce at excellent prices. I found baby bok choy at 99c, which is a steal. I am craving steak, which is rare for me, so my husband and I are thinking about buying some good ones, along with potatoes, corn, and some other veggies, and then grilling them at a friend's house. Enough for the 4 of us, of course.

SheLiz-I am so glad to hear of your socialness. I am trying to get out of the house as much as I can, and am being social once again. It's like night and day, isn't it? I am so glad you are feeling so much better at 100+ days. Go girl!

An infected toe is keeping me down from being too active right now. No Irish clogging for me tonight!

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by Txred76, Mar 18, 2011
I can't believe it! I am so happy that I just had to get on here and share. I SLEPT last night! OOOO YES I DID! LOL I never thought I would be so happy about something so silly in my life. I didn't take a thing. Not a valerian, melatonin.....nothing! I think all the days of little or no sleep finally caught up with me and I'm finally starting to feel like a normal person again. I woke up one time about 2am but then went right back to sleep til 7:30. About 9 hours from my calculations. AAHHHH! It was heavenly. Thanks so much all of you for all of the advice and listening to me whine for days. You are right this place is def a help. Funny I couldn't wait to get on here and tell everyone. Probably cuz I know you all understand and have been there when so many around me just dont get it. =) I hope everyone has had a great week. I am shooting for a good hopefully productive weekend. Weather is great here. Not beach weather yet but its getting closer all the time. Talk to you all soon.   Diana

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by rt35630, Mar 18, 2011
Diana....I'm in the 30-40 day range and I DO understand how luxurious those initial gifts of good sleep are. Say a thank you to whomever your gaurdian is, and pray for more similar. I am still having sleep issues, but I hardly ever go a whole night without any. Lots of nights I don't really calm down until about 3 a.m., but 5 hours is plenty for me. Last night was fine, but the night before I was still looking at the clock at 4-something a.m. before getting to sleep, and then having to jump out of bed at 8:30 to get to work was not fun!

Nora, I do hope your monthly ETB is enough to truly help feed y'all after the boon of the first three weeks. In my area if you don't have a full family they give you enough for about 7 days. I know this because Joe is on disability. He gets food stamps. At first I told him no, but even with my income after all the bills are paid we can't afford four weeks worth of groceries, so I accept them gladly. I am not supposed to be eating that food though. Only Joe is supposed to. We are classed as roommates.

I'm resting this morning. This last week was crazy at work with the organ concert and my boss's antics. She is 45 and only recently became a priest. I am 48 and have been doing church music and parish administration work for going on 30 years, so I get told to do a lot of things I know are going to cause repurcussions later. She is my boss and my job is to support her loyally unless it was a case of some sort of financial misdoing or abuse. She's really very lovely. But I hate being told to do something, then saying what the outcome will be, getting told "lets try it anyway," then having to clean up the mess! But that is how you learn. I made tons of similar mistakes when I started.

So when I vent about work on here, please know I love and support my boss/priest. She has many lovely qualities - the best of which is she loves everyone equally, which is a rare gift in a human, but Grrrr....sometimes I just want to pull my hair out!

SheLiz....I'm so glad to hear you say you actually WANT to go out. I am still isolating a lot. I don't feel bad, just when I don't have to be around a crowd of people I enjoy it. I used to love being out and about and going to parties, etc. Glad to hear it will eventually come back!

Y'all have a great day....keep up the good gets easier, I promise! -Randy

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by DamTram, Mar 19, 2011
Darn it, I missed my 60 day mark!  

Tx, SO GLAD you slept!!  Hope it's the first of many to come, or at least a reminder that sleep WILL come even when it seems like it won't.

Nora, I'm a pretty bad Jew and hate capers.  But I slather on the cream cheese.  How come you and hubby don't buy a lot of great meat with $700 and freeze it?  I would buy the grocery store out of shrimp and freeze it.  I could eat cocktail shrimp all day, every day.  I wish I had $700 to fill my freezer with them.  JEALOUS!  

Well, I'm excited for being beyond 60 days because I used to be an A&E Intervention addict and I would always get jealous at how happy the ex-addicts were when the producers would come back to check on them after 60 days of sobriety.  And now that's ME!  Sort of.  I'm Tramadol free, of course, but my psych put me on Ambien last week after 8 days of no sleep and the excruciating pain of the stupid sac being pushed on by my fatty liver has caused me to take Vicodin intermittently, especially after the steroids made it hurt even more.  I think it's all stupid, since acetaminophen is supposed to be terrible for your liver, anyway.  But...none of those things are Tramadol, and none of them are ruining my life (except for the 5 days of steroid therapy, which are over, thank goodness).  YAY!  I have exercised every day, seen friends every day, am reading for enjoyment and am learning Spanish (going to Mexico in April), and brushing up on Italian (am considering going there to teach English, if the Teachers' Union can't fix my standing with the Board of Ed).  

My life was a lonely, sickly, exhausting disaster on Tramadol...and now I know how it feels to have a light heart and mind.  Thank you, Nora, for your kind words about teaching...thank goodness the Union has taken over the battle for me, so I can hopefully get back to it.  If not, that's how it'll have to be.  It's out of my hands, now, and I'm at peace.


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by NoraTorious, Mar 19, 2011
DAMTRAM! Happy 60 days! That is the best feeling ever! I am sooooo proud of you!

My husband was sitting there smiling, as I flitted through the house, singing and dancing around as I fixed some breakfast, washed dishes, and worked on my art. I asked him if he was ever going to grow tired of my happy demeanor. I was pleased to hear him tell me, "there is now way I could ever grow tired of you being so happy".

Last night I went to the Asian food store and with some girlfriends bought lots of great veggies and dry goods, and frozen goods. Then we went a heathy foods market, bought some porterhouse steaks, top sirloin, and sausages. I want to go back with my husband and buy all the seafood and meat we can fit in our freezer (which is bursting right now). It was nice to be out with the girls. We went and grabbed a bite to eat after all that shopping. I still feel socially awkward but I think I am improving?

Any thoughts on coconut water?

¿Donde vas a Mexico, Damtram? One great book that translates some great stuff is 'Wicked Spanish' I always purchase it for any of my friends going south of our border. ;-)

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by DamTram, Mar 19, 2011
A San Miguel de Allende!  I wanted to say 'vado' but I know that's Italian.  Con mi amiga.

Congrats on being HAPPY!! =) =) =)

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by madtram, Mar 19, 2011
Ditto repeato with bells on to the above.  Smiles; sleep; healthy moms; friends; good food; unions fighting the fair fight, what an inspiration you all are.

Nora, coconut water is a good source of potassium which is important for nervous system function among other things, (the RDA is around 3,500 mgs).  A good quality coconut water will have around 600 mgs per cup.  The other advantage is that it's a raw untreated source whereas some other good food sources require cooking, (white meats,  root vegetables, lentils & beans).  If you like bananas, you are getting 400 -500 mgs per fruit.

Conversely, it seems to have attained somewhat of a goji/ acai berry fad status & its price can be disproportionate to other foods.  However, if you have a reasonably priced source, it can be stored so may be a good proposition for you right now.  I also find that frozen bananas together with some quality whey; berries in season, (or frozen); flax seed & some spirulina make for an extra creamy nutrient rich smoothie.  If you calculate that your daily potassium intake is low, you could add coconut water to a smoothie to top up.  Our Aussie bananas are trading at $12 per kilo, due to the cyclones & floods, so at this rate, imported coconut water is more economic.

Randy, you are very generous in spirit, most would find it very challenging to be working with a boss who has such little on the job experience, relative to their own. I hope that she comes to appreciate what an asset she has in you.

I am still surprised at this journey of grief.  My life is there waiting if I could only take those steps to engage but I feel as though I am being left behind.  If I don't get my labs finished, I can't make commitments to socialize or go hiking, get back into the reading to kids program, all of which I have an appetite for, yet days & days pass with little to no progress on the labs.

It's a sense of failure by association, my brother died in a car accident & my sister is killing herself with alcohol.  My cousins who grew up with my parents when their mother died are all doing really well but are now also all overseas, so my parents don't get to see their grandchildren very often.  At 27 & 22, contact with our kids mostly involves travel on our part which is fine for us but again means that my parents in a different country don't get to see much of them either.  My father's brother married late & has a young family who live locally but they have converted to Jehovah's witnesses & have so many church related responsibilities, they don't really have room for anyone outside of their church.  My brother was the one who stayed home.

Ok, end of the stream of consciousness, I think it helps to express what is weighing me down but can't readily be changed.  The best thing I can do is finish the darned labs so I can get fully qualified, start earning again & have more flexibility of movement.

Sorry to hear about your liver, DT.  It's probably still recovering from the tram & yes, I'm surprised that anyone is advocating acetaminophen, it's a liver thrasher.  Are you taking N-acetyl-cysteine, which is the amino acid they use to revive the liver when drugs have reached toxic levels?  St Mary's Thistle also has proven efficacy.

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by rt35630, Mar 20, 2011
Good Sunday Morning all...World events continue to be heavy on my mind. The nuclear disaster in Japan has been reported on so much that the huge humanitarian disaster has fallen to the wayside. And now Lybia. What are we coming to?

I took four valium last night and still did not sleep well, though I did sleep. I must be entering a post-traumatic period. I've had a bad week relationship wise as well as work, so hopefully the stress is the problem more than tramageddon (love that word!) but the two nights came with RLS, too. A friend gave me the pills, and usually one or two at the most does fine.

Anyone have relationship issues post-tramadol? My partner was screaming at me that I hadn't touched him in over a month, and I had rejected his attempts at affection. After thinking about it I find it to be true. In the main WD time I could not stand to be touched, and I feel I must be dealing with some depression due to the lack of anti-depressant in my system. I was fine until I ran out of Valerian and 5HTP, but huummmm.....I'm wondering if I should go fess up to my doctor and see if he will give me some samples, or just wait it out.

I did better yesterday, but outside of the time we spent hiking to the summit of a local waterfall, I had to force myself to stay out of bed and engaged in conversation. I don't have any problem getting up and going to work, but when home my tendancy is to isolate. Is this something that just has to be worked on and work itself out.'ve both been commenting on that sort of thing lately.

It isn't that I don't want to be affectionate with my partner, but there are certain things gay men do that I just don't feel like I want to deal with right now...and being impaled is one of them. But the problem is bigger than that because Joe has never had issues with "no" but he says I won't even make out, and in thinking on it he is right. I like that!

What is wrong with me? Could I be viewing this relationship differently now that I am sober? Or do I just have to find the love I seem to have misplaced?

Thanks all.....Keep up the good work!

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by DamTram, Mar 20, 2011
Randy, I know I said it before and you said you were just, maybe that's the case, now...but I still think that when one was taking substances for the better part of a relationship (especially when the other was take his own substances for the better part of a relationship), the couple really must learn who they are as a SOBER couple.  This is more than each of you can do on your own or as a partnership, more than NA or praying can sort through.  Couples' therapy with someone who specializes in substance abuse disorder would be invaluable in working through the incongruence between who you are as a pair now, and who you were as a pair when there were at least 2 other partners involved (Tramadol and marijuana).  I know SheLiz, Nora, and I found that the change from isolating to craving social interaction was almost overnight, but you say this is mostly opposite of your own experience.  In reading your posts, however, I don't hear you saying that you desire to isolate in general (avoid interactions with others), aside from Joe.  I know that I'm not married and have never been, but I was in a several-year relationship with a guy who was very devoted...but who blamed me for what was going on with me, physically.  He was a physical therapist by trade, and jokingly nicknamed me 'Fibromyalgia' years before I was ever diagnosed...because I had so much pain and fatigue.  He did not understand or appreciate my struggle, and I would not even allow myself to recognize how I was feeling towards him because of it.  In the middle of it, the only way that I could be intimate with him at all was if I was taking something for the pain/insomnia that also turned off my brain (e.g. Ambien, Vicodin, Tramadol).  I was doing Americorps at the time and was prescribed Cymbalta, but could not continue taking it after the free samples ran out because it was about $300/mo and I was only making $126/week.  The boyfriend told me that he liked me better on the Cymbalta (obviously it was helping with the physical and depressive symptoms, at the time).  I knew, then, that feelings on both ends were not sustainable without medication.  

What I'm trying to say is that of COURSE you are having depressive symptoms since getting off of a drug that had become for you (just like the rest of us) a way of life, but that your partner is not able to understand a) what you went through and b) what you are experiencing.  You have said before that his ability to relate to your situation is based on his own experience with getting off of other drugs, but we all know that there IS no other experience like Tramageddon (glad you like the name).  And there is no way for you to get him to understand on your own.  

Again, I'm sorry if you were merely venting, but since this is a public Tramadol journal and not a personal recovrery journal (where venting is done for the pure sake of venting)...I assumed, like the rest of us, you were seeking responses.  I just believe that this is a case where personal strength and a will to overcome are necessary parts in working this out, but that without the help of a professional...they will not be enough, and these issues will continue/worsen.  I'm grown to love you and respect you, Randy, and I want you to have the loving partnership that you had/will have/deserve.

MadTram, thank you for the always.  I take Milk Thistle, Vitamin E, and Turmeric...which are all supposed to help the liver/inflammation, but not seem to help.  I was diagnosed with NAFLD last March, 6 months before I was put on Tramadol for Chronic if Tramadol is to blame, would only be to blame for a relapse of a preexisting condition.  I've been reading online about which foods will make it better/worse, and it looks like low-sodium will keep the swelling down, low-fat will not overwork the liver, and small portions will prevent my internal organs from smushing the liver sac (where the pain comes from, supposedly).  

MadTram, all you can do right now is all you can do.  You will get the labs done, maybe not as quickly or on-time as you'd hoped, but you will get them done.  During my family's days on food stamps/bankruptcy/etc., my dad called it "Survive Mode".  When I had to resign/mom was having cancer surgery/health came crashing down/still recovering from Tramadol, my Psychiatrist and I declared myself in Survive Mode.  No, I couldn't clean my apartment.  No, I couldn't really sleep.  No, I couldn't really do anything more than what absolutely had to be done right then and there...whatever it took to survive the pain, despair, and chaos.  All of those things that you love doing and that make you happy will be back, soon.  It will not bring them back sooner to be frustrated with yourself that you cannot get to them, sooner.  That will make Survive Mode even harder.  If you keep repeating to yourself, "I will complete the labs.  The labs will get done," they will get done and you can move on to the next thing, "I will complete _______.  The ________ will get done."  Only in this way can you be kind enough to yourself to persevere.  You are still here, and still functioning.  Those things already deserve gold medals, themselves.

For those of you with Restless Legs....I was put on Trazodone for insomnia, but it nipped the RLS in the bud, immediately.  I thought I was weird for thinking they were related, but when I looked it was true.  If your RLS situation is getting drastic, it's worth asking your doctor about.  Who knew one symptom could make you so crazy, so fast.  

All my love to my surviving friends.  There's nothing we can't handle.

<3 <3 <3

Avatar universal
by StephC28, Mar 20, 2011
DamTram - what a great post! I always love reading whatever it is you have to say. Despite the turmoil, you stay positive and helpful to all of us. :)

Randy, I can relate to the relationship issues as I had a very difficult time with my bf after Tram. I believe I am about 75-80ish days out now and I can tell you that it has gotten better. I really didn't want to be touched for a while during/after WD, but it comes back. I started to see a therapist, and I'd love it if he would join, but as of right now he's unwilling. We'll see. There is an adjustment period for sure. I know our situations aren't exactly the same as Joe knew your use while I kept mine a secret, making severe trust issues as well as everything else for us. We were just in Mexico (story to follow) with my father who I've only recently begun to have a relationship with after he left when I was young. When things got tough, the bf was so loving and protective and i felt some of the hurt of him not being there for me in WD disappear. I only say this to say that it takes doing new things together, having new experiences, and moving further away from drugs to see if you still love each other. I hope for the best for you guys.

Mexico. DT I know you're going here's my little story: Perfect vacation, amazing food, fantastic resort, and aside from the visit with the dad, things went fantastically. Until the last night. SEVERE salmonella poisoning, night in a Mexican hospital, IVs, antibiotics, and the pain...oh man. Rivaled Tram WD for sure. careful what you eat! (though who was actually most expensive place we'd eaten all trip...) now, back in the US, I'm just grateful to be here. The stomach pain still is horrible, but I think I'm over the worst.

MadTram - Tragedy is relentless. It doesn't pick well. It's just Fing unfair and horrific. One foot in front of the other. I don't know what else to say. Thinking of you...

For those new ones on here dealing with WD, hang in there. For those of us learning to cope with life post drugs....well, hang in there to us too.

be well all

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by madtram, Mar 20, 2011
Thanks DT & Steph, your thoughts are most welcome.  

DT, the liver pain sounds miserable, you are doing so well to help others while battling all your health challenges.  There are a number of studies where n-acetylcysteine has improved ALT & reduced spleen inflammation so it may be worth a try as there are no reported side effects.

I had one of the best trips of my life travelling the Yucatan peninsula, just loved the people & seeing the amazing ruins on the cliff tops from the perspectives of up close and while swimming in the azure waters below.  If you are doing jungle ruins, do stock up on your preferred bug repellant.  When we were there, Mexico had just been stripped of its only Olympic gold medal at the 2000 games due to the vote of the Australian judge in the women's walking event.  On hearing that we were Australian, one local market stall holder declared, "I curse you; my children curse you & my children's children curse you."

Randy, the others have given excellent advice, all I can add is that in my experience, libido is a tricky unreliable guage of what else is going on.  I can understand that after losing autonomy over your body due to tramadol, combined with your ongoing broken sleep, you might want to keep yourself to yourself.  It's still early days but if your partner is feeling rejected & can't understand, it's important that you find a way to show him how much you care.  Mismatched libidos can be a tricky thing to navigate.

Txred, hope you are continuing to thrive.  How are you Rain & Sheliz?

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by rt35630, Mar 20, 2011
Thanks, all...I was seeking responses. DT, Our situation is so quirky. I'm 20 years older at 48, and Joe has a personality disorder that is kept in check by medication. Sexually, he has a lower desire than most people his age - 28 - because of the medication, and he told me the other day it wasn't sex, but just simple physical closeness. Joe is starting a web store and I am dealing with changes at work on top of everything else. Yes, it is partly venting, but I have realized that *I* am starting over and after thinking only about myself during February, I need to to make an effort to plan things that bring that closeness. We went for a hike Saturday, and spent part of the afternoon today "napping" but not sleeping. We talked about the issues and cuddled and just spent time being connected. Outwardly, we are really different. But we share the same values and are so well matched in so many ways. I think talking openly about things is so important and it is hard for me to do - and after our long conversation toady we both feel much better. Wish us well!

I am really thankful that I can be open here. I don't want to upset people with TMI, but I needed to ask. Steph...your comments resonate with where I am.

I am about to fall asleep so must get to bed. Love to all!  -Randy

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by SheLiz, Mar 21, 2011
Just a quick check in as I've had a really full few days (all good :-) - except for my flat tyre today but even that was no drama.  
I'm still feeling energised and more social than I've been in years.  I don't have a partner and haven't had for years so I don't know what this all would've been like if I had someone else in my life.  So, a least I don't have to worry about all the readjustments that would warrant from both sides.  I've been so anti-social in the past that a relationship hadn't even occured to me but things must be changing coz I'm catching myself checking out the guys again ;-) and thinking that it might not be so bad to let someone into my life after all.  

Gotta go and watch Brothers & Sisters and do a bit of sewing - can't believe how much I am getting done each day now when not that long ago EVERYTHING was all too hard.

Hang in there everyone coz it gets real good

1498147 tn?1289012013
by SheLiz, Mar 21, 2011
PS - Just as an extra update on my other medications :  I'm down to 12.5mg of fluvoxamine daily and plan to be off that completely in 3 weeks.  I am attempting to sleep most nights without anything apart from melatonin or my other Blackmores Sleep remedy but 2 -3 nights a week I still need a 12 or 25mg valium.  I still have a heap of seroquel left but have avoided taking that even at it's lowest dose.  So, I am getting there.  The less I'm taking of all of these things the better I feel - there must be something in that......

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by Txred76, Mar 21, 2011
Good morning all. Well I've been up since 2:30 but I've decided to just take it a day at a time. Got myself out of bed at 4 and decided o well and started my day. Gonna be a long day cuz spring break is over here and the kids go back to school today and I'm back to work after a busy weekend. Started walking again which feels really good. Walked 2.5 miles Friday and again yesterday. Hoping I'm not to wiped this evening to go again. Sunday made a week without any Tramadol put into my body. I'm definitely feeling better and I know the sleep issue will resolve itself in time. I haven't really slept without waking throughout the night in years anyway. Guess from being up babies for so many years. LOL By the way I haven't really said alot about my life except about the tramadol. I have three crazy boys 12,9, and 6. They are my world and my reason for living. They are what keeps me going and making me want to be better. I am striving to get healthy again for them. They deserve it.
Randy I totally get what you are talking about. I have been married for 12 years and let me tell ya we already had some issues in the intimacy department I guess from just busy life and 3 kids to raise but I definitely have NO desire in that department at all right now. It's all I can do to make it through the busy day with everything I have to do. My husband has been supportive through all of this pain med crap but I guess I feel like he just doesnt really get it having never been addicted to anything in his life. Sounds like you and Joe are really trying to work on things though and thats great. I'm happy for you and know it time it will all work out for you.
I love how all of you even with your own recovery and struggles still get on here and give advice and help out others who are struggling as well. I guess I just feel like I am so new into being off this crap that I really have no advice to give but cant wait for the time that I can be of help to someone going through what this stuff has put me through. Mostly I just like to get on here and read how you all are doing because it gives me hope that my life can get back to some sort of normalcy again and I can go forward without needing a pill to fix every little thing that is wrong with me. I have my first appointment with the physical therapist this afternoon and I'm kind of excited to get started and see if this wont help the herniated discs in my neck without any more medicine. The massage alone sounds heavenly. I guess I struggle with it though because taking a pill was so much easier with my busy life. Struggling to find time for physical therapy because my brain keeps telling me you dont have time to take out of your day to go do this. I'm ignoring it for now and deciding to put myself first in this area so I can be better for my family and everyone. Ok well enough blabbering on I better go wake up my boys for school cuz I'm sure they are going to be grouchy having had a week off from schedules. LOL
Have a great Monday new friends. We are tram free another day. YAY! =)

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by kdemers4, Mar 21, 2011
Good morning everyone.. I haven't posted in a while as I wanted to clear my head and I seemed a emotion train wreck.
I agree with the relationship issues that you all have posted. But It seems more than just husband. I look at my family and wonder who are these people? I cannot relate to any of them. I love my children and husband but I have noticed my pushing away from them. How odd as I have made them my whole life before taking tramadol away. My husband wants me to stop talking about the "BAD" time in my life.. I wasn't sure why, but I think its because I was mentally unwell Serotonin issues...and trying to make it his issue. Dont get me wrong, He has a lot to learn about being supportive. He says he left for that day in hopes I would turn myself around. Typical some men just don't get that you can't just stop addiction and mental issues from it.
I hope everything turns out for you all that are having closely same type of issues. The only thing I can come up with is that the tramadol was a "anti-depressant" And in my body for way too long (12yrs) along with the addiction piece.. Without it now I have to learn how to be human again... My heart and thoughts are with you all as we continue to fight the demons.

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by ullr, Mar 21, 2011
I am sitting in Norway writing this. And it translated by a translation program, so it can certainly be some strange phrases. Okay?
I have used a drug called Tramagetic OD, (tramadol 300 mg tabs) for 3-4 years, with doses up to 10 tablets a day. It is a lot and extreme, but some days I could just eat and eat pills without the withdrawal symptoms were let go.
Sweated, worked and threw up. With extreme headache attacks. Tramadol toxicity.
It is now 14 days since I stopped. Then I had trapped down a couple of weeks, and spent a little (a lot) codeine to take off for the worst withdrawal ..

I took with me 100 25 mg codeine tablets and thought it would go smoothly. Packaged me out. Moved out of my house. I was going for a landing. quiet and calm.
How wrong can you take?
I have stopped the tramadol previously one time and knew it would be hard, but then I went over to another opiate. Now I was all by my self.
I had to go back to the doctor to get something that calmed me. I was close to psychosis.
It was Day 3 Had not slept. Could not sit still. The well-known lesson. That inhuman feeling.
The doctor prescribing me Oxazepam and nitrazepam. But I still was not sleeping. Collapsed a few hours in the morning maybe. Woke up like a wreck an saw no light.

Day 5-9 Longer walks hot baths. Sun was shining and spring is coming here north. Listening to music helps me. And being so skinless as I am it helps return my feelings.

These weeks have been hell. I'm still far from healthy. Trying to go for walks. Taking hot baths, focusing. Reads a little. Still shivering, sneezing, zapps, freezing. And crying. Up and down mentally during the day.

How mutch I hate tramadol? A lot.

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by rt35630, Mar 21, 2011
Ullr....I hope you can read this. I so get where you are. I'm at day 40 tram free, and this weekend I kept thinking how nice some bon-bons (lortab or vicodin) would be. I have switched and substituted for years. Tramadol caught me in its net and I so know and agree that I HATE tramadol! I'm staying away from pills, except if I have several sleepless nights I will take a valium, other than that nothing recreational. NOTHING.

I don't seem to have the same trouble with alcohol so I allow myself a drink or two in social situations, but I don't keep alcohol in the house except perhaps some wine which we sometimes enjoy with dinner.

I'm finding that I am having to be very intentional about learning to live a drug free life. Things I used to let roll off my back years ago - say like a difficult work situation - more recently I would pop a pill or four. Those triggers come up every day, and you just got to say "no."

We've been through the withdrawls so we sympathize with you. You are doing good. If your translation program can figure this post out look up the "Thomas Recipe" on this site. It has many suggestions for easing withdrawl.

Blessings...I hope it gets better soon!

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by NoraTorious, Mar 21, 2011
I was looking at other people's trackers and was so proud at how well you are all doing, and what an honor it is to know you all, and to be able to share your lives.

It is very rainy, haily, and windy here. So much for spring. My husband and I brought steaks, corn, taro root, marinated eggplant and sausage to our friend's house. We barbecued as the storm was brewing. Everything was delicious. We watched some great stuff on Netflix, hung out and talked. We left when the storm was at its worst, the gutters were like rivers. I stood in the hard pouring rain while my husband pulled the car around. I am not sure what was worse, standing in the rain or wading through the gutter. Either way, today I am cold and congested.

I have noticed my appetite has been bipolar. Sometimes I am starved and can eat and eat. Other times I have one little meal and I am full. And I crave sweets big time. It is insane. So when I feel better and the weather turns, I gotta get back into walking.

Oh! Today is my 75 day mark!

<3 <3 <3

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by ghostman, Mar 21, 2011
I am now at day 5 again. A couple of months or so ago, I had went cold turkey and made it 18 days I believe. However, I did fall back on to them. Im not really sure why I did. Ive waited till day 5 to say anything because ive been severely depressed. Im very ashamed that I took the again after all those hard days of struggle to get to the other side, only to throw it out the window.

1641181 tn?1301552159
by ullr, Mar 22, 2011
rt35630, I can read english, just a long time since I  been writing ; )
Today I am 14 days of, and have moved home again.

Things are getting better!
But last day and today I have started sweating again...Just as I have been taking tramafuckingdol  

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by DamTram, Mar 22, 2011
Ghostman, congratulations on making it back!!  Do NOT feel shame.  You should feel nothing but pride that you decided to get back on the road to recovery.  I think for a lot of us...we ended up in situations or with people that allowed us or supported us in a full recovery.  For some of us, too, when you are are just DONE.  But none of it matters.  What matters is that you are done with the worst of the five days and you are GOING TO DO THIS!  Do nothing except be kind to yourself.  Shame and self-punishment will cause a relapse, for sure.

Ullr, it is only uphill from here!!  I know that the sweats are gross and that some days won't be as great as others, but you will continue to feel better and better.  And without drugs!!  You have come to the right place for support, even if it is not in your native language.   It's interesting....I thought that Norway was closer to reclassifying this drug and getting information out there about it.  This is just further proof that this world is still deep in the terrors of this drug.  We are so glad you found us!!  I'm excited to hear of your journey to freedom from trama****ingdol.  :) much love to you.  I got the cysteine (makes me think of the Sistine Chapel!) at the health food store.  I know it'll take some time, but that and not taking vicodin will hopefully stop or ease the liver pain.

Steph and Madtram...thank you for all of the advice!  We are going to a yoga retreat in the mountains, so I'm hoping this will cut down on some of the food complications.  :). It is partly a reward to myself for surviving the combined terror of Trama**** and my ex-principal.

I have a job interview today for a classy, in-home tutoring company's the first place that has even called me back in 3 weeks of sending out smoke signals.  I'm very nervous, especially since I can't list my most recent reference....obviously.  And we all know the job market is terrible!!  I bought a fancy interview hopefully I can appear confident enough without Tramafool.

Oh, and Steph!!  I'm so glad you're ok!! I hope you're feeling so much better!  You are a tough cookie.  :)

Randy, yay for working things out!!

A wonderful Tuesday to all!!

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by SheLiz, Mar 22, 2011
Hi Ghostman - good to see you back.  I'm begging you to hang on this time.  I haven't posted much lately and I don't know if you have read any of my posts over the last couple of weeks but life has really started to turn around.  Even up until around day 90 I was still uninspired and not 100% but in the last in 2 or 3 weeks I have really started to feel alive and awake and better than I have in years.  I am inspired and have heaps of energy which is something I thought was long gone.  Good on you for getting back here and we are here for you as much as ever (although I am out much more these days and don't have nearly as much computer time as before - a good thing :-)  

Welcome to ullr - glad you found this website.  Tramadol really is busy causing hell internationally.  Tram is hated by many of us all over the world - I'm in Australia.

Randy at 40 days   NoraTorious at 75    They're some good milestones :-)  Yay!!!!  I just love it when I see everyone breaking free and getting their lives back.

Txred - you're doing well, I don't know how I would've managed to look after kids during my w/d but as you said, they are also your inspiration to get through this.  My daughter is 28 and living in the UK but she was as supposrtive as she could be from way over there and is now overjoyed that 'I'm back in the land of the living'.

This was just going to be a quick one ......

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by SheLiz, Mar 22, 2011
DamTram - didn't see your post before.  The yoga retreat sounds like a lovely idea and I hope you can get some rest and rejuvenation.

Avatar universal
by StephC28, Mar 22, 2011
Hey Ghostman, glad to see you back here! Hey, I stopped for 5 months once, and then went back to taking Tram, "sure" I didn't have a problem. It was a full year later that I finally realized I you made it back quicker than I did! Forget the past. You're here now and that's really all that matters. It might be worth thinking about why you started taking again - then address that issue.

DT - glad you're going to a yoga retreat. That sounds amazing! I'm sure the food will be healthy and clean! I am JUST feeling sort of normal today. Stomach pain/fever was def worst than tram wd, but at least I could sleep...a lot.

Txred76 - you're doing SO AMAZINGLY. :)

Ulr - you're through the worst! Really...It will definitely be up and down, but mostly up.

SheLiz - I'm so glad you say it gets even better after 90 days. I'm getting there...though the whole flu and then salmonella threw me. I'm hoping my energy keeps getting better.

Rain - how you doing? Hope you're well :)

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by DamTram, Mar 22, 2011
Steph, so glad you're gettin better!  Sheliz...I think we all need a yoga retreat.  :)

The interview went really well!  They are calling my references next.  It's a really cool tutoring company...may even be a better fit for me than teaching?  I'm no good at a job that is never done, that has constantly changing mandates.  Little sense of control.  No wonder my body gave up!

Madtram, I feel paranoid...but I swear a hunk of the liver pain is missing!  Guess the vicodin really WAS hurting more than it was helping.  Thanks again for the n-acetyl cysteine advice!  Hope you are having a swell day, yourself.

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by rainallday, Mar 22, 2011
Pollen time!!!!!!!! Wow here in the southeast its that time where everything turns yellow. brutal on allergies.
Add that we're having a preview of summer with highs in the mid to upper 80's, and its oppressive. Too much heat too soon. Hey its better than ice storms. Easier to add antifreeze/water to the car which is leaking about a gallon every 2 days.. Like rosanna danna says "It's always something"
Damtram I'm on about page 110 lol...Moving slowly, cherishing the last weeks of smoking.. Feeling pretty good and not feeling or thinking about tramadol much at all....The niagra falls sweating under the arms has lessened and thats the final symptom. Sleeping great, very deeply.(more thanks to L.Hudson hypnotherapy).
Hope everyone is doing well, if not I suggest hypnotherapy!! lol......

1560190 tn?1355371487
by rainallday, Mar 22, 2011
P.s. hey StephC, good to see you are doing well!
and damtram I have a bottle of that n-acetyl-cysteine laying around, I couldnt stand the smell! phew! like rotten eggs or something lol..I dont know why I kept it, but i rarely through aNYthing out lol.....Glad yours is helping you! keep up the good fight!!!

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by NoraTorious, Mar 22, 2011
Rain, I do want to know more about the sleep stuff you are doing. Can you PM me some info? The sweating left me long ago, what remains is exhaustion and freezing feet. Also a strange thing I have around the same time every month: anxiety, rapid pounding heart, unable to sleep. It lasts 3 or 4 days.

Congrats on 120 days, SheLiz! What a big milestone! It sounds like you are doing super!! I wonder, if that far off, if you are still having any withdrawals, or if you find that everything has leveled out?

DT congrats on the interview! And San Miguel De Allende is a gorgeous place. My parents have travelled extensively through Mexico, and that was one of their favorite places. I remember my Moms telling me about a church there that reminded her of going to Mass in Toledo Spain when she was a little girl. Take lots of pictures, and have a great time. Don't be too adventurous with food or water. On my last day of my honeymoon I got food poisoning, also from a very expensive restaurant. Go figure.

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by ullr, Mar 22, 2011
Thanks for all the positive responses! Yes, I think this is a good place for me.
Tried to post something on a Norwegian forum, but the moderator told me to tune down my anger to the drug, because a lot of people there were using the drug and it helped them etc. Ok it helped me in the beginning as well. Probem is quitting, I said. But it was a forum for pain.
They were most concerned about my great consume, and how could my doctor prescribed so many pills. That is not my focus: My focus is to get well.

Went away this evening to do some bow shooting practice (historic bow shooting, of course! (my nickname is Ullr: the norse god of archery ; -) ) . Did not shoot so many arrows, because of my pain.
But meeting friends, telling them about my situation, and getting supporting helps so much! Just to go out, spend time helpes.
I will try to post a little bit every day

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by NoraTorious, Mar 22, 2011
ullr: I am glad you are here and I am sure it will be more rewarding to you than just a regular pain site. Since we all have the same goal it helps me to stay grounded.

I would lve to know more about your bow work. I have done a little archery, but found fencing to be more for me, since it is close to dancing. I would imagine, like fencing, it can put stress on one arm, unless one is ambidextrous.

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by DamTram, Mar 22, 2011
Hi, Friends!

The interview went really well!! They're calling my references.  One of my references said that they told him, 'She seemed nervous, at first...'  Um, DUH.  First job interview in 3 years.  What else would I be?  I'm hopeful, though.  It's a really cool company, and this way I could still spend lots of time getting my life back together.  

We all seem to be having positive days (except for Rain's sinuses...BOO!), so keep up the good mojo, ya'll!

Love, love, love.

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by ghostman, Mar 22, 2011
I'll be going into day 7 again in a few hours. Im free from them today, but im really depressed for taking them again. I was reading back through those posts last time  and I remember how good it felt to be off them and through the withdrawls. I dont really know why I started back on them. I mean, I cant think of anything bad happening. Its like I cant even remember when I started taking them again. Well, I am grateful that im at 7 days, thats no small thing. This time around, I was withdrawing really bad, worse than last time. I didnt even come here till I had 5 days because I was having trouble even finishing a sentence. I do feel a little better physically, but mentaly im pissed that I put myself back like that. I would be completely free by now, but now im having to do it all over again. Please, if you hear anything from me, just dont start back. It's very sneaky and it can happen so easily. I dont know if I started taking them again because I felt like the symptoms wasnt going away or what. I seriously cant even remember when or why it happened.

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by rt35630, Mar 22, 2011
Hello All...

Rain, I'm in northwest Alabama, so I understand all about the pollen. My car is covered!

DT - Good luck with the interview. Keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Thanks for everyone's support re my relationship. It isn't a perfect world and I don't believe any relationship is perfect. But you can get close if you communicate and work at it. We're good for now.

I have read all the posts and wish everyone well as this week moves forward. Prayers for Japan, New  Zealand, Libya.

Love to all - Randy

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by madtram, Mar 23, 2011
DT, I so hope the NA-cysteine works for you, I would love for you to be able to enjoy your Mexican retreat, free of pain.  Great news on the job prospect, best of luck for it coming to fruition.

Rain, it's the sulphur in the cysteine that has that wonderful stink, it's a very important part of our antioxidant system.  Great going with the hypnotherapy, your gentle reminders have prompted me to check out the recording you are using.

I also sympathise with the suffering sinuses, I have the sinuses from hell & should probably have them drilled out but am so far too chicken.  The only time I had minimal problems was during the tramadol years; there is some evidence that tramadol works on the histamine receptors but apparently in a manner different to claratyne et al. as none of those antihistamines seem to work for me.  Even if tramadol was established to prevent cancer, I wouldn't go back to it, though on the especially snotty days, I do wish there was something safe to take.

Ghost, congrats on day 7.  Can you write a note to self detailing the sh*tty withdrawals for future reference.  Unfortunately, our memories seem to be particularly fallible when it comes to recalling the downside of substance use, it's the buzzy, energetic sensations that come more readily to mind.

Nora, it sounds as though your hormones are out of balance, particularly if the symptoms worsen on a monthly basis.  I can't recall if you ever mentioned having a recent thyroid panel but the tramadol seems to have promoted diminished thyroid function in a number of us.  You need the right doctor to run the tests though as some doctors focus solely on lab values without including symptoms so go with someone recommended by a friend or one of the thyroid patient advocate sites.

Steph, here's to a bout of good health so you too can enjoy the fruits of your tram free status.

Ullr, it seems common in early withdrawal for pain to initially get worse but then quite quickly get a whole lot better as your body starts to make its own endorphins again.  The more movement you can do that does not aggravate your pain, the better for helping with this process.

Kdemers, be kind to yourself, after 12 years your body will need some time to adjust to its new environment.

Yes to prayers for all those who are grieving or putting their lives on the line for the most basic of human rights.

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by ullr, Mar 23, 2011
Day 15
I do not sleep without sleeping tablets.
Do not know what mg amount you other have taken daily and for how long, but I was up in 1200 - 2000 mg daily for some years. It sits in the body. How long do you think you can take before I'm without withdrawal symptoms?

Yes, archery! For me it started with bowyering. Creating replicas of old findings. Especially from Scandinavia. The problem is that it (maybe) was the tramadol that kept me going.
Tried to shave a bit of a stick last week, but when I met a twig, I gave up ...
We also dress up like the old Iron Age people and shoot bow ... : -)

Hunting with bows is prohibited in Norway. But we are working on the case!

So I sit here and write about archery ...

Might be a good sign!

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by rainallday, Mar 23, 2011
Hey madtram, I agree , wouldnt go back for anything.....hope you find the rest and sleep track and find it helpful, I found it to work best at lowest volume, as I find loud voice bothersome trying to sleep. I havent listened to it in days as Ive slept so well now...I just turn to it if I'm stressed out which hasnt really happened, probably from good sleep!!! (reverse catch 22 lol ?!)

As far as sinuses, mine have been better lately, probably from good sleep..Even the pollen (and theres tons of it, everythings yellow like it snowed yellow lol) hasnt bothered my sinuses much..One weird thing is, I went back to just using 'ocean' saline spray when I feel the sinus going bad, and its worked amazingly well...Anything harder or stronger than that hasnt worked much....So, Just saline ocean spray for me, and luckily no bad sinus problems.....All in all Ive felt great, and thats amazing in itself....The rest and sleep cd has restored confidence in sleep and I dont worry about it at all. which is also amazing being the worry wort I am....I still have problems that I havent mentioned cause they didnt seem relevant, like 2 tooth absesses for last 6 months that I just keep at bay best as possible.and of course the neck and back pain injuries, but all has improved with good sleep. Good thing cause I have no money for doctors or dentists, and havent had any courage to brave 'free clinics'...I've learned to be 'very' used to pain, so now to be almost fully pain free without pills is a sort of nirvana....I certainly didnt think it was possible 2 months ago, and I definately didnt think something as simple as 'good' sleep could make a difference. So, 'yay' I get to keep going lol, alot of stray animals are glad for it...
ps. I live knowing the insanity that if I hadnt spent all my money the last several years on stray animals, I couldve easily had a new car, new teeth, and any needed medical treatment..self imposed martyrdom....I've amazed family and friends by being so broke for so many years and somehow surviving. Ive had faith that I was doing the right thing, and I guess that keeps some sort of grace going for me...AND stupidly smoking 2 packs a day the whole time, that couldve bought alot of good things too lol.....The best part though is that for last 7-9 years Ive worked only 25 hours a week to make $350-400 a week.......The previous 13 years I had worked 60-70 hours a week and told people i was taking a pretend early retirement delivering pizza, which worked out so well I'm still doing it lol!!!! What does this have to do with anything?lol  I'm suddenly realizing I just went into rambling mode again...It's just like "darn i couldve had a V-8" I shouldve had more money lol...Oh well, good thing I'm so darn good at being broke!! And now I sleep great too? The sky's the limit!!
btw Nora the mp3 track I downloaded was called "rest and sleep- hypnotherapy" by Lynda Hudson, and I guess I owe it to her to 'buy' her stop smoking hypnotherapy cd, which I will, if I fail to stop when finished the book DamTram sent me that I'm reading so slowly heh.,(page 105) I'm reading slowly for 2 reasons. 1. i'm superstitious that I've smoke the same amount of time my cat has been alive and don't want to jinx her at 20 1/2 years old...2. I'm scared of how much greater life will be when I do quit. I know I'll start running and tennis again, and I'll be a different person alltogether, so the ole masochistic me is hanging on as long as possible...In any case I'm sleeping great!!
I 'think' Ive rambled plenty enough for now lol..
To all the people just quitting tramadol keep at it, you'll be sooooooooooooo glad you did!

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by ullr, Mar 23, 2011
Visited the my job today.
Had to help with some technical issues related the fact that an old man would talk about people who live far from people. Farms far from the others. There are things we like to hear about in Norway. It went okay, but I was incredibly tired.

Have some friends who have used the happy pills (Effexor), and they also felt zapping when they discontinued. Is this zapping I feel do you think? In that case, its serotonin receptors that work, and that it is them that causes the body Zappa. It often feels as if the brain does not sit properly in the head. As if it has loosened and do not follow me when I for example turn on my head. Does some else have them? And ... it will to go over? time to try the bed.

More tramadol hate will come ...

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by rainallday, Mar 23, 2011
Yep ULLR the zaps, it will go over....all gone in a couple weeks.....5 days for the worst then'll come and go. you'll get better and better! Stay strong.

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by madtram, Mar 23, 2011
Yes Ullr, tramadol contains an antidepressant that is pretty much chemically identical to effexor in structure so some of the withdrawals are the same.  Effexor & tram both block serotonin & noradrenalin reuptake & the reactivation of these receptors can cause the brain zaps.

Many have reported getting them & they should decrease soon.  I know Norway is strict with what supplements are available but if you can get them, 5htp or St John's Wort are worth a try to help the receptors calm down.

What is your job?, it sounds interesting.

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by rt35630, Mar 23, 2011
Oh...y'all...I'm gonna vent a little. You are all going to think I am crazy for complaining about work so much. I work from 9-2 on Tu/Th and 9-2 and 5-9 on Wed. 7-12 on Sunday. Off M and F/Sat.

But I am so tired ALL the time now, especially tonight. I worked on the database for 4 straight hours this morning, then had a three hour break and had to do two choir rehearsals. I am wiped out. Yesterday I came home at 2, got in bed, and did not get out till this morning.

Could this be related to the tramadol? I am fine on the days I don't work, but after work I am a zombie. I have what I consider a very cushy schedule and my job can be stressful at times, but hey, I remember a time when I worked 7 days a week and tons more hours, and I did not feel like this!

I'm curious because I have heard several of you talk about lack of energy lasting quite a while. I did not have this problem during the height of my WD, but I hate to think it is just me. I need to see my family doctor I guess, but I hate to confess the drug abuse to him. However, I am a little concerned. I can do what ever I have to do, but lord, I am wiped out after, and it isn't physical. I feel better after a long hike or something.

Anyway...5 hours tomorrow then a two day break.  Enjoy reading everything y'all are writing. Ullr...keep on doing any physical activity you can, and stay away from the tramadol. It will get better and better! I know I am fussing, but I would rather deal with this than the tramadol. I HATE tramadol!

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by madtram, Mar 23, 2011
Randy, have you tried the amino acid d/l phenylalanine, (DLPA)?  It converts to dopamine & noradrenalin both of which are depleted during tramadol withdrawal.

The amino acid acetyl -L- carnitine and adaptogens such as ginseng & rhodiola can also help.

It would be worth seeing your gp for a complete blood panel, including thyroid.  This would be justified on the grounds of unusual fatigue, if you don't chose to disclose your PAST history with tram.  I know that some doctors can be judgmental & dismissive of all your health issues as drug related, (which is ironic given that doctors have the highest number of opioid addicts of any profession).

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by madtram, Mar 23, 2011
Forgot to add, you absolutely need to do some regular exercise if you don't already, just force yourself out the door or go to an exercise venue straight after work.

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by NoraTorious, Mar 23, 2011
Ullr, as per Randy and Madtram, antidepressant is the secret ingredient in Tramadol. The ingredient they fail to tell you about until you are deep into it. In fat, I wonder if I would have even known about it if I was not already taking Effexor. I wonder if I would still be taking Tramadol...

Randy, look into some walking and lite yoga classes. You can cover exercise and medication in one shot. Also be sure you add some good energy foods in your diet. I tend to have a spoonful of honey or some honey on the comb, as well as EmergenC, and sublingual B12 to give me a boost of energy.

I think I have the beginnings of a chest cold. This of course is draining what little energy I have, and making me achey and headachy. The rain started up again after sundown, just about a half hour after my husband came home from grocery shopping.

I was able to get a small amount of chores done, which is empowering for me.

Does anyone else have trouble with cold feet? I swear, it feels like the ac is blasting frigid air on them!

Hope everyone is hanging in.

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by ullr, Mar 24, 2011
Damtram: I am a librarian at a public library focusing much on speeches, performances, theater for children etc. In addition to traditional librarian's work, my role is to ensure that all the technical stuff works.
I have told  almost everything  about my situation to my colleagues and my boss, so it is a lot of support to get from them. Even if they do not understand fully the extent of the problem.

I had a miserable night last night. Fell asleep first ( one sleeping tablet) but woke up after 2 hours, and struggled a lot with my life ... Keep getting cramps in the legs. Knocking my head in the walls and cried. Screamed. Thank god I did not wake up the children.

Part of the reason I had to take a grip with my tramadol addiction was my high blood pressure. It is high. 190/130 at the last measurement. That was after I had been without tramadol for two weeks.

So I have to use medicine for it, plus beta-blockers (on doping list, in archery ...) Hope that's not involved in slowing down my recovering. I do not know.

But spring is coming! We have had minus 20 degrees Celsius since November, and now the snow dripping from the roofs and the sun is shining. Difficult not to be affected by it, even if you are miserable inside ...

My wife is a different matter. She is so tired and bored. I have a long history of addiction.
So it is not so much to get sympathy from her. I cannot ask for it either.

Actually, (I have to admit) I went allmost directly from a serious and (almost) insanely relationship (addiction) to amphetamines (not meth, witch is a big problem in US i have read, but regulare amphetamine, if there is something like that) (which I kept hidden to her) over to tramadol. (It is not so far from the effect of  illegal central stimulating drugs)

She is so tired of pills and drugs and me. And I understand her of course. I am tired of it as well. I do take some of the sobril pills (25 mg Oxazepam). 3-4 a day. They take away some of the tension in my head. And calm me down.
But I will go and find some St. Johannes worth.

I still have those shivering’s. I freeze. Yes, cold feet’s and ankles.
Yesterday I was thinking for the first time since I quitted that it would be so nice to take some opiate to fill up the emptiness i feel inside. (and i start crying when I write this). Off course I will not. But .. this is such an extreemly lonly prosess that take so long time... (pardon my english) I switch from writing directly to transelation program and back.

But I try to stay focused. My dog i setting here eyes on my and force me for a walk..

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by ullr, Mar 24, 2011
I ment MADtram, of course, Sorry.

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by rt35630, Mar 24, 2011
ullr...I had one of "your" nights last night. Couldn't sleep. Restless legs. Cold feet. Awful! They say that you get these "flashback" WD's from time to time, and they are right. Nothing much to do but "relax into it and let it happen" there isn't much I could have done.

Madtram...I've run out of things like 5HTP and valerian, but of which were helping, and I won't get paid again until the first, so I am up a creek till then. I will look for the others you mentioned.

If I had some money I would go find some valium or muscle relaxers. Those would help on nights like these, but I just deal. Maybe I will come home and sleep this afternoon. We had a cold front last night so the warm days are gone until Saturday, when it will rain yet again.

I just don't get the non-linear recovery. I haven't had many bad days. It must drive those who do crazy! Oh...well, some of you on here are dealing with the main part of your detox - Ullr and Ghostman, so I will shut up!

Peace to all....Randy

Avatar universal
by kaz47, Mar 24, 2011
Hello everyone - it's been a while since we posted and I am pleased to see so many of you still on here and some new faces as well. It is now day 73 tramdol free for my husband - life is pretty good and going in the right direction - I was interested to read Randy's comment re 'flashback withdrawals' as my husband has had a couple of nights like that - last night he was very restless and took a long time to get off to sleep - however this is UNUSUAL now and I can only say to those further back on the journey that things do get batter after the first couple of weeks but it takes lots  of time and lots of patience...BUT YOU WILL GET THERE!  I think we don't really appreciate sleep until we are deprived of it - now he is actually getting a reall good quality nights sleep it has made a fantastic difference and it will to you too if you stick with it.

Ullr - it's nice to see another European on this forum - don't worry about the language barrier too much, we are English and sometimes have trouble understanding some of the stuff our American friends are talking about! LOL (no offence meant guys but you do have different words for different things sometimes!)  The important thing is you found this amazing place to come and talk and get support! (By the way aren't HaHa Norweigian? I used to LOVE them back in the day! 'Take on Me' is a classic but probably before your time!)

Ghostman - I remember you posting way back when we first found this forum - so glad you are back - one day at a time and you will get there - I look forward to continuing to hear you are beating this crap  - please don't give up - your life will be so much better if you can just get over the first couple of weeks.

My husband is still finding that his back pain has actually got better following stopping tramadol - I know that this isn't the case for everyone who was prescribed the drug for pain relief, but I know from reading previous posts some do find that the drug has made things worse re the original symptoms the longer they take itr. He is exercising a lot and strengthening his back - it helps that the weather here is so lovely at the moment and he can get outdoors and enjoy it - spring has definately sprung in our part of the world andwhat a difference the sight of hte sun makes! Hope the sun is shining on you wherever you are - even if it's not at the moment it soon will!

That's all for now - keep up the good work everyone - we are thinking of you and are willing you to succeed - love and respect as always x

Avatar universal
by Sydney0502, Mar 24, 2011
Hi all, decided to post my progress.  Doest seem to be many folk's on here familiar with the Subutex/Suboxone treatment to get off Tram so anyone interested can watch my progress.

I am on day 7 with no Tram.  I was an over 1100mg Tramadol abuser as of last Friday, 3.18.  My last tram was around 2p Et.

With Sub, you need to me in mid to severe withdrawal to take the first dose.  This is what caused me most concern as I could not find "anyone" that used Tram on how long to wait and if they were ok.  Tram lasts longer in your system so if you take Sub before you are in deep enough withdrawal you can go into precipitated withdrawal..a super withdrawal which noone wants.

I survived my first pill around 9:00a .  

Now for those interested, Sub is a very complex treatment drug.  The first time I heard of it was through a friend at AA who said she has been on it 3 years and considers she will be on it for life?  That never sat well with me but not being a pill user (at the time) I just accepted her explanation .

You know when you hear something that doesnt make sense.  That never did.  I look for the truth. and to me if its true it is straightforward and not "shady".

anyway, now I that I have an issue with Tram I have taken the time to interview and research Sub extensively and talked with doctors.

turns out, Sub is 10x stronger than most opiates it just doesnt work the same in your body..please go out and read what it does as I dont want to type all the chemical make up on it here.

Its how you use it where the disagreements come in.  Some use it for maintenance.  Most doctors do this and even what they consider "fast taper" is basically maintenance.  Any more time on this drug than 2 - 6weeks is too long if you ask me.

the secret is its half life.  My friend was put on an extremely high dose which the point of that is to get you feeling great..what they consider "normal".  It doesnt have the mind control and fuzzy "opiate" symptoms to it so when you take it in higher doses you almost feel normal.

What I did was just take enough to break the withdrawals thta diabilitate me.  The nerve horror, RLS, severe cold sweats, energy.  I stablized on a very low dose.  Some go lower but I ended at 8mg (in 2 mg increments until I felt ok).

The link to the program I am on is called Robert's induction and can be found here:

the plan is I should be off of the sub by early May.  Basically, once you stablize through the first 3 days on your "dose" (again, mine is 8mg/day) level at that for 4days then on 5th day go down 25%..level again 4 days...go down 25%.  

I was actually doing this with my Tram taper when I ran out.  

The difference is I I have so many symptoms of normalcy back it gives you an "edge" of working on normal life right away.  You are not in the Tram fog.  Plus, I m sure it was getting fairly soon on my high dose the withdrawals of Tram would probably of kicked my butt and I would have messed up.

So far so good on this.

Its not perfect.  I still feel some withdrawal but that is good.  It is manageable.

I am concentrating on excercise and keeping busy.

The drawbacks thus far are for anyone stopping Tram..I am somewhat lethargic, bloated.  Tram took my hunger away..I now crave "salads" and not as much sugar but already feel I may not be able to fit into my size "0" jeans...(ugh).

I'll keep posting to let folk's know how I am doing.

The very first day I was alittle freaked not knowing what to expect..  I felt kinda twighlighty still, sweathy and anxious.  My teeth chattered alittle when talking and out of breath.  But I took a long walk..and just kept low that first day.

the second day I forced myself out of house and did a 2hour hike in the woods ..very aggressive and felt good.

Excercise helps.  

Talk later.

Avatar universal
by Sydney0502, Mar 24, 2011
To be clear on the 2 mindsets on Sub..sorry, kinda rambling here.  The maintenance approach which is where most go..which to me is NOT right and why so many people get hooked on Sub or have issues getting off.  The other approach is the "lowest possible dose" induction..then 25% taper reduction till off.

The truth makes sense with this approach.  Sub stays in your system for 36hr.s

The first morning, last Saturday, when I took my first sub I ended up taking the 8mg pill at 10:00a (done with the pill).  Do you know thta the next morning (Sunday)..I woke up with no real aches and pains?!!!  That would NEVER happen on Tram.  Not taking it..morning were always horrible or coming off.  I would be dead the next morning if I had gone all day before with no more pills.

This is how strong it is.  

Now I split the pill..4mg am/4mg help with my taper.  But I think its this half life and getting off soon where the sub never has a chance to "catch" your body/brain to be addicted to it.  It simply tricks your mind out of the Tram withdrawals.  

Well, I guess we will know when we know.  When I get down to less than 2mg...that is when it gets tricky and we all know Tram shows its ugly face..months out after stopping so this will be interesting.

Thus is good.  I dont want to say everyhthing is great, cuz its not..I still wonder about going higher on Sub as my doctor and all the "maintenance" folks believe I never leveled yet...I agree..I could probably be most comfrortable on 12mg maybe even 16 but trying to keep it as low as possible to just stop the withdrawal horrors that make so many people relapse.

I do know this is a drug trying to use it for only a bridge to sobriety and not get too comfortable on it.  :)  

Avatar universal
by Sydney0502, Mar 24, 2011
One last thing..I take SUBUTEX.  The Suboxone has another drug in it that reverses out any seretonian highs. It is for people thta they feel will abuse. The Nalexone (spelling may be wrong) is bad for Tram users as since Tram does funny things with brain I didnt want to shock it too much getting off of Tram.  Subutex is just the Bupehen.. and only thta.  Also I hear the Nalexone causes bad headaches and has withdrawal compents itself.  If going this route, my suggestion is ask for the SUBUTEX, not the SUBOXONE

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by ullr, Mar 24, 2011
I went to the pharmacy to buy some st. johannes worth. Not allowed to sell anywhereelse here i norway because of the danger for seretonin syndrom. Anyway. Got the herbes. But when I was waiting there was this guy coming in for his Subutex-pill. And I was thinking... Thanks to all the norse gods that I do not not need to come to the pharmacy every day to get my releef. I am not saying you are wrong doing it your way, Sydney. But I have heard Subutex, as well as metadone is pretty hard coming off as well.

Kaz.. A-ha, was the name of the group. Yes they are from Norway. Made some good pop albums in the 80's! (I remember it, i am not that young anymore...)
Moved from Oslo to London without money, but with a couples of good pop songs and a lot of leather lices in theyr luggage, and made it to the top of the Billboard!

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by MyFreedom, Mar 24, 2011
Good afternoon everyone ~ Today is ONE YEAR FREE for me!! It feels good to have that amount of time under my belt now. To celebrate I am treating myself to a Cirque du Soleil show that is currently in town. We are going to see it tomorrow. I'm totally excited about it!

Randy ~ Love the "flashback withdrawals" term!! It's perfect. Even at a year out now, I still get those occasionally. As you get further and further away from tram they will happen less often and when they do the duration will be less as well. It's funny, every once in a while I will get that very uncomfortable anxiety (like RLS except all over and not just  in the legs) feeling like in early WD, but it goes away literally moments later. I do sometimes go through a few days of very restless sleep (maybe once a month or less)....I seem to wake up every few minutes. That will last for a few days and then just mysteriously disappear again. Advil PM works great for me (not so much with Tylenol PM, though). Have you tried it? Also, I have a brand new bottle of 5htp that I bought about 2 months ago (maybe not that long ago) that I've never even opened. I decided not to take it (don't want anymore pills unless totally necessary). I was going to return it to walmart, but I've misplaced my receipt. I'd be glad to send it to you if you like. Send me a message if you are interested. I'm in NC so it would only take a couple of days to get there.

Sydney ~ I am proud of you for being tram free. Now be sure to stick to your plan and dump the subs as soon as possible. Remember, there is real empowerment in fighting through some of the WD. Keep up the good work!

Nora ~ Hope you are feeling better. My kiddo had the flu a couple of weeks ago and now we are all sneezy and snotty thanks to the pollen in the air. I'm down south with Randy and I see the yellowish coating on everything. It certainly shows up on my black car all too well. Yuck.

Rain ~ You should try as soon as you can to get those 2 abscessed teeth taken care of. That could cause a whole host of problems for you potentially. I had a very back tooth that was abscessed (didn't know it until the filling began to crack and come out). It caused me soooo much pain and discomfort (even while still on tram). I finally just had my dentist remove it. I felt better that same day. I had put it off for a few months because I was afraid of the removal being painful, but it really wasn' was just awkward, no pain, but awkward. They said I could've tried a root canal instead, but I have had one other root canal and it was a miserable experience. So I just decided that since it was a top tooth in the very, very back that no one would notice that it was gone. My only issue now is that in the time it has been gone, my bite has now shifted a bit....which is no help to my TMJ at all, but it's still better than that horrendous tooth pain! Sorry...I'm babbling.

Must go tackle mount saint laundry!! Have a lovely day everyone!


Avatar universal
by StephC28, Mar 24, 2011
MyFreedom - CONGRATS!!! What a huge accomplishment. I hope you love every minute of Cirque du Soleil!!

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by madtram, Mar 24, 2011
Pasting this on behalf of EfffinTrams:

by EffinTrams, 21 hours ago

I am new here... I suffer from Fibromyalgia and chronic IBS- I was put on Trams about 8 months ago- taking up to 8 per day- My doctor had no problems giving it to me, although the ONLY warning he gave me was that it can cause seizures at high doses (bear in mind- he gave me these MONSTERS in a bottle after I asked to NOT be put on anything addicting)

I took one, felt nothing, took 2 ... WHOAAAAAA ok... Nice!.... WRONGGGG, so effin wrong!

Ok, 8 months later here I am, a victim, so I go to the dr. after i've run out, and haven't had any in 3 days- I haven't been eating, sleeping, low grade fever, flu- like symptoms and had lost 6lbs in those 3 days- now I see this "DR." who has NEVER had an issue giving them to me, refill after refill- I tell him I want to get off of them... what does he say? " OK SO THEN STOP!" can you BELIEVE THIS CRAP?

I said ummm... yea tried that and felt HORRIBLE, I need to taper off- he IMMEDIATELY started to treat me like TRASH-  started asking me INSANE questions about " do you take street drugs?" " are you on heroin?, speed?, " I wanted to knock all of his teeth out... then FORCED me to take a drug test, WHICH I GLADLY TOOK, wrote me a script for 5, yes FIVE- and basically told me to take a hike!- at this point im ready to cry, I came to this PIECE OF CRAP for HELP! and he treats me like an ANIMAL? - I go to the nurse and say I would like to put in a FORMAL COMPLAINT- I do, she obliges and tells me to see another dr. in the practice that is a little more sympathetic and knowledgeable- SO I do... SAME THINGGGGGGGGGG- Now she's going to the other doctor to ask him! When I told her what he did! I thought I was in a NIGHTMARE!- She comes in, basically again treats me like an animal- gives me 4 yes FOUR and tells me to go to the HOSPITAL for detox b/c there is NO REASON WHY I should be having ANY withdrawal symptoms from this drug.

YOU STUPID C*NT, I said to her... when the drug test comes back NEGATIVE, and one of your patients DIES b/c you aren't educated enough to know what you're prescribing- I hope you NEVER SLEEP AGAIN.


SO here I am- 6 pills, no sign of a refill- and one part of me is THRILLED b/c maybe i'll be finally done with them, and the other part of me is like ... I have work, I am moving in 2 days... How will I get through all of this?

I read about all of the natural remedies, 5hpt, probiotics, valerian root and highlands restless leg.- I will have those tomorrow after work. I might resort to asking my mother for some vicodin *JUST IN CASE I end up ready to throw myself off of a speeding train*

A lot of you had time to lay around and die, but I don't remember reading anything about how to cope when you have NO CHOICE but to get up and work, no calling in sick, moving in 2 days no way out, HELP :(

ps- I must say I am very motivated that I'll be ok, by reading all of the posts and I thank GOD ( whatever he/she may be) that there is a forum for me to vent on! thank you all!

Sincerely yours! EFFIN TRAMS!

Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Mar 24, 2011
Thanks so much MADTRAMS! I'm going to repost here anyway!

I am new here... I suffer from Fibromyalgia and chronic IBS- I was put on Trams about 8 months ago- taking up to 8 per day- My doctor had no problems giving it to me, although the ONLY warning he gave me was that it can cause seizures at high doses (bear in mind- he gave me these MONSTERS in a bottle after I asked to NOT be put on anything addicting)

I took one, felt nothing, took 2 ... WHOAAAAAA ok... Nice!.... WRONGGGG, so effin wrong!

Ok, 8 months later here I am, a victim, so I go to the dr. after i've run out, and haven't had any in 3 days- I haven't been eating, sleeping, low grade fever, flu- like symptoms and had lost 6lbs in those 3 days- now I see this "DR." who has NEVER had an issue giving them to me, refill after refill- I tell him I want to get off of them... what does he say? " OK SO THEN STOP!" can you BELIEVE THIS CRAP?

I said ummm... yea tried that and felt HORRIBLE, I need to taper off- he IMMEDIATELY started to treat me like TRASH-  started asking me INSANE questions about " do you take street drugs?" " are you on heroin?, speed?, " I wanted to knock all of his teeth out... then FORCED me to take a drug test, WHICH I GLADLY TOOK, wrote me a script for 5, yes FIVE- and basically told me to take a hike!- at this point im ready to cry, I came to this PIECE OF CRAP for HELP! and he treats me like an ANIMAL? - I go to the nurse and say I would like to put in a FORMAL COMPLAINT- I do, she obliges and tells me to see another dr. in the practice that is a little more sympathetic and knowledgeable- SO I do... SAME THINGGGGGGGGGG- Now she's going to the other doctor to ask him! When I told her what he did! I thought I was in a NIGHTMARE!- She comes in, basically again treats me like an animal- gives me 4 yes FOUR and tells me to go to the HOSPITAL for detox b/c there is NO REASON WHY I should be having ANY withdrawal symptoms from this drug.

YOU STUPID C*NT, I said to her... when the drug test comes back NEGATIVE, and one of your patients DIES b/c you aren't educated enough to know what you're prescribing- I hope you NEVER SLEEP AGAIN.


SO here I am- 6 pills, no sign of a refill- and one part of me is THRILLED b/c maybe i'll be finally done with them, and the other part of me is like ... I have work, I am moving in 2 days... How will I get through all of this?

I read about all of the natural remedies, 5hpt, probiotics, valerian root and highlands restless leg.- I will have those tomorrow after work. I might resort to asking my mother for some vicodin *JUST IN CASE I end up ready to throw myself off of a speeding train*

A lot of you had time to lay around and die, but I don't remember reading anything about how to cope when you have NO CHOICE but to get up and work, no calling in sick, moving in 2 days no way out, HELP :(

ps- I must say I am very motivated that I'll be ok, by reading all of the posts and I thank GOD ( whatever he/she may be) that there is a forum for me to vent on! thank you all!

Sincerely yours! EFFIN TRAMS!

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by SheLiz, Mar 24, 2011
Hi NoraTorious (and all the rest of you out there) - Re any lingering w/ds at this stage I really can't say I notice anything.  I have more energy than I've had in years, my head is clearer, more enthusiasm for life in general, getting much better sleep without the help of any medication at all (a huge one for me - always has been) and no restless joints.  

The one thing I do notice several times during the day is that I get a pounding in my head (only ever 4 beats each time) as if I can feel my heart beat in my head.  I don't remember ever having that before so that may be a lingering symptom.  I did have a constant, wierd headache until a couple of weeks ago so it might be left over from that.  I still have all my previous pains but am prepared to deal with them in all other ways but medication.

I have a huge headache today but that has a very obvious explanation.  I live right on the Australian Grand Prix track and they have been warming up from dawn til late for 3 days now.  The F1s are on today and the big race is in 2 days.  We will also be getting the jets flying low overhead which will be exciting.  I am going to be away at a concert at a friends winery on Sunday so will miss the main day.  I feel like one of the cars is going to crash through my apartment wall any minute :-)

Keep up the good work everyone - I'm off to the dentist

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by ullr, Mar 25, 2011
Day 17 for me today, I think. Have almost lost count ..

Was alone with my son last night for the first time since I quited tramadol. I am unfortunately not as patient as I was before I quitted. Then I could read and sing for hours. Fell asleep along with him at 7 o’clock yesterday after having read and sung for about an hour.

I woke up at 2 in the morning. Then it was hard to get back to sleep. So ... a sleeping tablet, and I woke up now for a half hour ago. Think it's the sleeping pills that give me the headaches. Maybe I'll replace them with something else. Would like to be without.

What is left of the withdrawal symptoms: small zapps the brain (three or two zapps at a time). Easy to get cramp in every muscle. Dizziness. Exhausted. Not much more really. Compared to what it was a week ago!

Will drop by my work today. Was hoping to do that yesterday as well, but in lack of sleep I was too tired.  We have great deals for medical certificates in Norway, so I can come and go as I feel for, with full payment. Thanks to the unions! They have much power in Norway. Full pay during illness is a matter of course!

I hope you carry over with the case that I write and write. it is a lot of self-therapy for me.

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by rt35630, Mar 25, 2011
EffinTrams - So sorry to hear about your predicament.

I understand how you feel - I wanted to quit for about two months before I did and did not feel I could because of work. If you want to do this, you can, and go to work, too. How are you going to deal with two days of the runs and or vomiting? That would have been the biggest issue in my case. My hardest days were 2,3,4 and after that it got much better. I still deal with random symptoms of WD - it ***** - but that is the price to pay. The best advice I got was to relax and know you are not going to be okay for a few days. If I can do this anyone can. Good luck!

Anyway...I wish you all the best, and my prayers are with you. Randy

Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Mar 25, 2011
Thank you Randy! I am on day 1 and I am ready to just throw in the towel- I get angry at myself for not saving some to wean myself off with. I am trying 5htp and valerian and i have no clue if it's actually working. I wonder something though- What will the brain zaps feel like? that scares me a bit.

It's wasn't only the working, I moved today- moved from a 7 bedroom house into a 4 bedroom house- 3 moving trucks and 10 hours of labor- now I am in shambles and I can't believe I have to go through all of this **** feeling like this.

I keep getting this RANDOM flushing in my face- like my face gets SOOOO HOT- not my body, just my face, I look in the mirror and i'm really red- the rest of my bosy, well it's FREEZING especially my feet- i wanna sleep, but my body wont let me.  

Thank you for your concern and for responding- any help would be appreciated- forgive how short i'm being as well as I have the patience of a gnat at this point

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by madtram, Mar 25, 2011
Effin, you have a lot to deal with & all I can say is that some have reported that being forced to keep busy at least provided a distraction & left less time to focus on all the lousy symptoms.

Everyone's withdrawal symptoms are individual so you may not get the brain zaps.  I didn't have them at all & the 5htp should help to stabilize your serotonin levels.  If the zaps do start, you could try swapping the 5htp for St John's Wort as it has a different chemical pathway.  The quality of supplements is important, so buy the best you can afford & go for herbal tinctures where available as sublingual absorption is more effective.  Get yourself some sublingual b12 & have one sitting under your tongue for most of the day, (i.e. as one dissolves completely, replace it with a new one).

The thermo dysregulation, (hot/cold sensation) unfortunately is common but should improve quite quickly with time.  Try epsom salt baths whenever you have a moment, you could just soak your feet to both warm them & get a quick boost of magnesium, which is the most important mineral for nervous system regulation.

The supplement that worked best of all for me was high dose inositol, (6 grams twice a day), ideally in powder form, it dissolves nicely in juice or water.  It's calming & a good liver detoxifier.

So long as you are not constipated, it can be worthwhile taking immodium, even if you don't have the runs.  It's a very strong opioid that only acts on the gastro receptors but in the same way that your gut will often act up when you are under extreme stress, the immodium can help calm things down.

Ullr, congrats on day 17.  A good magnesium powder together with epsom salt baths should help with the cramps.

Thanks for sharing about your job, we have some interesting people fighting the tramademons.

MyFreedom, woohoo on hitting a year, you sound great.  Which Cirque du Soleil show did you see & how was it?

SheLiz, the Grand Prix would give me a headache at the very least, the idea of all those fossil fuels being consumed at an extra high rate is enough to raise my BP.  I don't have any general aspirations to rule the world, there's just one or two things I'd like to ban.

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by MyFreedom, Mar 26, 2011
Thanks so much for the congrats Steph and madtram. I do feel pretty good. I'm still rather frustrated for getting caught in this whole tram trap, but at the same silly as it sounds.....I'm kind of thankful to be where I am. My husband, son and doctor have stood by me through all this. I've slowly told some family members about it which feels good to get it out in the open. I'm typically a very private person anyhow and don't involve others in my business and tram made that worse for me. Unfortunately in my family there are others that have allowed drugs to take over the drivers seat in their lives. My mother is and has been a pill popper for many years....which has completely deteriorated our relationship. Her DOC is benzos....something I've never tried and with the addiction history in my family I'm terrified to even take one. My father is an alcoholic and has been since his early 20's. I think he is the reason I never wanted alcohol. My sister is probably the most extreme....she's always had low self esteem. She married a guy (an alcoholic) that she dated all through junior high and high school. Even though they've always had a rocky and crazy relationship, they stayed married for a very long time. When they divorced she dated a guy that got her involved with crack cocaine. She's really been through the ringer (and has taken all of us with her) with that problem. She stayed clean for nearly 7 years until last June. She lost her job and went on a binge again for a few months. She's now clean again and seems to be doing pretty well....but as we (the family) has seen, that can turn around in no time. Lastly, I have a 20 year old nephew that has gotten himself involved with pills....smoking them maybe?? To support his habit he and "friends" were stealing and robbing. He's landed himself in jail for a while. I hope he can get himself straightened out while he's there. Thankfully, neither of my two brothers have never had any interest in alcohol or drugs.

All that said... I am glad to be where I am today.

Alright.... Enough of the sad stuff. The Cirque show was fantastic!! The one we saw is Totem.

This is the website:

Here is the preview video from their website:

There's another one playing a few hours away that I'd love to go see too (I think it's called Alegria), but we'll have to wait on the next one I suppose. Cirque tickets are not cheap!! lol

Love to all!

Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Mar 27, 2011
Hi all- I am feeling like I've been run over by a thousand trains- QUESTION: What are your opinions of using clonazepam to help with the withdrawal? I've never liked Benzo's, hence why when I was rummaging through stuff while i was unpacking and found a bottle with about 30 clonazepam-  out of desperation I researched and decided to take 1/2 under my tounge- it didn't COMPLETELY help, but I feel a bit of relief from the restless leg and arms. Any opinions? I don't want to open up a whole new can of worms, but maybe someone could give me their thoughts on this method of tapering, as I have been in AGONY over the past few days. Thanks and love to you all!

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by SheLiz, Mar 27, 2011
Hi My Freedom - Just noticed your huge milestone.  Well done!!!!

I'm having a quiet day at home catching up on some patchwork.

Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Mar 28, 2011
MadTram- I JUST noticed your post! I am so sorry for not responding... I am a bit out of it with these symptoms of my mind fighting my body- I mean that's the best way I could even explain it really- my mind and my body are at WAR.

I spent SO MUCH $ on the other supplements I want to wait until next weeks pay to try others, I will definitely buy the sublingual b12 and the insolitol as soon as I can.

I posted earlier about the clonazepam- any thoughts? I know some would say it's substituting one addiction for another, but I really have NO WAY of getting these again anyway, so I figured what the hell. I'll ask... please let me know or ANYONE about what they think of using those to help with withdrawal.


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by DamTram, Mar 28, 2011

I think a lot of us are of the opinion that you should do what you need to do to get through this.  Ideally while being monitored by a physician (I know, for us...that's impossible...since we are treated like jerks).  I took lyrica that I had to get through the worst.  Randy has used Valium.  Around 50 days, I was put on ambien, then later  a steroid and vicodin stint for my liver crud.  

The goal here is never to get away from Tramadol and never look back.  If you have to see a doctor and get on subs like Sydney, it doesn't matter.  As long as you end up free.  Yes, you would eventually have to taper off a benzo.  No, it won't be anything like Tramadol.  

Good luck in resting!!

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by ullr, Mar 28, 2011
Effin.. If they help with the w/d I cant see why you shouldnt take them. I my self take some Oxazepam (valium-like), and they help my a lot. The time when they locked people with addiction problem in to a room and let them stay there without anything to help is gone! (my doctors words).

I tried cannabis for releef, but I have really never managed to relax on that. My head spin and spin and I am thinking what am I thinking and why and who is thinking this inside my head... etc...; -)

Day 20 for me to day.
W/D? 2 or 3 zapps from time to time. dizzyness. Lack of energy. sneezing and sheevering. To deal with

The emptiness is the worst. Like there is a big gap left, where there before was opiate/tramadol...And what should I fill that hole with....

And I have big problems tackeling family issues...I might get separated. She's had enough.
Yesterday was like hell. I feel like a psychopath. I may be. So self centred.
I need a psychologist...
And another thing: I got a big heat oven falling over my ancle last evening, so i hardly can walk to day...YES! I needed that one.... ; -\

Not so easy to stay focused when I have these things to deal with beside...
But I try.  

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by rt35630, Mar 28, 2011
Effin and! my heart goes out to you guys as do I am sure others of us do - especially those of us in early recovery.

I have taken some valium here and there for relaxation from the RES (restless everything syndrome) and insomnia. Valium has value as a muscle relaxer in addition to the more common use. However, I don't take it regularly. That is important. If I had it I would take the klonapin judiciously. I've known people who were on it for long periods and had pretty bad WD's when stopping it suddenly (like taking too much and running out early).

My feeling is that tramadol is such a complicated medication as to how it affects so many aspects of our chemistry, that it should be avoided at all costs.

I too, know the empty spot Ullr...I deal with it every day. I have slight feelings of depression which I guess is the lack of anti-depressant in my system, plus, I spent a great deal of time keeping up with my pill inventory, ordering online, finding sources on the street to fill in with, etc. That was a lot of energy/time which I now have free, When the weather is good I get outside and find God in creation and enjoy the exercise hiking offers. When the weather is bad like it is here for the last few days and all of this week. I am in the house and I really think about going and getting some lortabs or vicodin to pass the time. I am allowing myself to enjoy alcohol occasionaly, but never when I am feeling down or are alone.

Getting clean has affected my relationship negatively, too. My partner has felt ignored and disconnected since I quit the drug. I spend a lot of time just DEALING with being clean and I am not the smiley perky person I used to be when I am at home. I spend so much time ACTING like that at work, I really need time to vegetate when I am home and it is hard on him. However, we finally talked it all out and I have started forcing myself to take my turn cooking, helping clean house, and I make time, even when I don't feel like it really, to pay attention to him, and things are a lot better. The things we are fighting now are not going to plague us forever, so hopefully your wife can stick it out for a while. But it is hard on the people we live with. In my case, I got in trouble through recreational use - I have only myself to blame. I can't blame a doctor.

I hope both you and Effin can stay strong. It really does get better the longer you stay off tramapuke. If you have to take something else occasionally for a little relief, I wouldn't blame you at all. Just be careful!

Ask God, your spirit guides, and higher powers for help...It can't hurt.


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by cjjg1234, Mar 28, 2011
I went cold turkey 2 days ago after taking roughly 600 mg a day for 9 months of tramadol.  I hurt all over and I can not stop vomiting.  I can not take care of my family asnd they do not even know what is wrong.  I have not told my husband or anyone what is going on.  I feel like I am going crazy.

I feel so guilty that I do not even have the energy to play with my 9 month old daughtert.  My husband and 2 teenage sons think I have the flu.  I am too ashamed to tell them that after all my surgeries I got addicted to this

Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Mar 28, 2011
THANK GOD FOR ALL OF YOU! YOU'RE LIKE THE FAMILY I'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO TALK TO, BUT NEVER COULD LOL- I can't tell anyone EXACTLY what's going on- They don't understand at all, they always end up saying " stop taking drugs azzhole! it's so annoying!

THIS IS LONGGGGGGG-I responded to everyone, BUT there are more questions for ALL in each part if you feel like you want to read it all lol

Dam Tram- Thank you so much lol- It's got me feeling better knowing that I'm not the ONLY one that needed "something" to help with this LIVING NIGHTMARE- I agree- Tramadol is a ****** nightmare, I mean it's like the devil threw all the worst things in the world into the pot stirred it up, and *POOF* out came a tab of Tramadol.

As far as the tapering off the klonopin- I am currently taking 1mg per day since yest. in 1/4's- I took 1/2 pill at first yest, and then 2 more 1/4's, after agony all morning- finally decided just now to take 1/2.

ONE MORE QUESTION- I have 5 vicodin that I also found- It's so funny- I've got VICODIN/KLONOPIN in the house, and I'm addicted to the NON ADDICTING tramadol LMFAO.

If I am REALLY suffering in pain and take ONE  or 1/2 here and there - will that set me back? Ive only got 5- and my dr. won't give me ANYTHING EVER AGAIN so... What do I do? I was on Trams for pain- the pain still exists.

I really don't want to set myself back at all, Klonapin-these aren't in anyway like opiates are they? I'm fruckin TERRIFIED to go through all of this to get off trams and then BAM- back to dealing with another withdrawal.

Ullr  &  Randy- It is day 4 for me.

The lack of energy IS HUGE for me right now- HUGE b/c I have a family full of meth addicts ( or so it seems) I am seperated from a 6 yr relationship, we are doing well seperately ( I was too into my Trams to make the right decisions for myself and our relationship, we lost it all, it wasn't ONLY me, but I feel to blame)... i'm back home with my family and they are like INSANEEEEEE- they are up at like 6am- like "HEYYYY THE SUN IS SHINING!!! UP UP UP MY FRIENDS!" *BARF* Makes me wonder where I got this addiction issue from in the first place.

ANYWAYYYSS  the sneezing is SOOOOO ANNOYING RIGHT? I've not had brain zaps, but I know i'm only at day 4- maybe I have, but I don't know? I feel like i'm doing better than most at day 4- I'm not sure why? could it be a combination of the klonopin and the 5htp? am I even supposed to be mixing those?

As far as the EMPTINESS-My relationships are suffering big time, not only with family, I am a JOKER, I am a comedienne no doubt about it- My family/friends used to LOVE having me around and were always on the edge of their seats waiting for something HYSTERICAL to pop out of my mouth- now? I'm fukcin MISERABLE to be around- I have A LOTTTTTTTTTTTTT of friends- and close ones too!, phone NEVER stops ringing, I could be out everynight if I wanted- NONE of my friends are drug users- all GREAT influences, yet I would rather sit at home on the computer and research withdrawal b/c it makes me feel better? I have no desire to be around people right now... I only see my boyfriend b/c he KNOWS IT ALLLL and I mean ALLLL... so it's easier for me to talk to him about how I am feeling and why. NONE of my friends know the extent of my issue b/c they wouldn't understand- Except for my ONE friend who shall remain nameless ( she's a social worker for addiction issues) LMAO- so I will avoid her for a while haha.

RT also I get the whole almost BORING feeling- It's like what did I do before I was an addict? I remember going out for drives and blasting music on nice days- windows down- cigg in hand lol ( can't quit those yet)- I remember just driving to my friends houses and just "stopping by" convincing them to get out of bed and go with me to the mall and eat and shop- Meeting men, dating, kissing and falling in love- butterflies - being a PERSON, with FEELINGS, understanding you wake up tired- it's part of life, yes I will wake up tired and yes it will pass, I don't need trams to wake me up!

I am 29 years old- I wasted quite some time on and off meds for my issues, about 5 years total, but the TRAMADOL was the only thing I couldn't LIVE with out. I would give anything for those years back. I am not about to let ONE MORE YEAR go to waste. I am going to try to maybe work out again? the tramadol completely took my motivation away- I gained so much weight, and I wasn't even really eating, so weird!
A doctor starting prescribing me everything Randy, VICOPROFEN, VICODIN, PERCOSET, never really stuck- The doctor suggested tramadol b/c it's not addicting... HAHAHAHAHHA... I personally feel Tramadol is a mix between OPIATES and METH, it's METH that's all I can say- I think it's NORMAL to NOT want to get up and run a marathon, or go shopping after work and then go out to a club and then go to work with out sleeping- I guess life is BORING b/c the tramadol just made you unable to sit still. It's up to US to make LIFE GOOD, not a pill. We've all forgotten how to do that! :( It's so sad and I'm literally in tears right now while typing this!

Last but certainly NOT least- CJJG1234- I am on day 4, so i'm not far ahead of you... try the 5HTP- I have noticed a change in my mood at LEAST for a few hours after I take it. Cold turkey is hard, I couldn't do it- 1 day of it and I was like NOPE not happening- I am taking the clonazepam as you can see from the 15 page novel above. I cannot give advice on what to do b/c I am still experimenting- I've been taking MADTRAM and DAMTRAMs advice- it HAS helped. Go and buy some supplements or if you're too sick ask your family to go for you- It might help if you just tell them, maybe not that you 're addicted, but that this is what happens when you run out, and you don't want to take them anymore, so can they help you out a little bit and bare with you while you go through this? I didn't want to tell my family ALLLLLL of the details, but I did tell them I am off medication that I was on for a while, and I'm going to be a LAZY, NASTY, ***** and i'm sorry in advance, i'll make it up to you when i'm done.

SO SORRY for the novel, but I have had a LOT of feelings I needed to get out, AND wanted to respond to ALL that are trying to help me.

Love you all!  Thank you for being my new friends :)

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by ullr, Mar 28, 2011
Effin: Nice novel! I certainly understand your need for writing. And its good medicine. I know.

You are saying Tramadol was like a meth-opiate combo for you, and for me it was like that as well (never done meth, but amphetamine for some years (started as research for a movie project… bla bla bla and I got addicted. Did it every day more or less for a two and a half year)) tramadol worked much in the same manner as speed for me. When I was on Tramadol I used to wake up at 4 in the morning, walking, reading writing, making bows etc.  

My first writings (as I maybe said) was on a Norwegian forum for chronic pain. I have written a lot of journalism, poetry, short stories etc., so know how to write. And filled up with tramadol-hate, Oxazepam, and a little bit cannabis, I got pretty carried away, and the moderator of the forum sent me a private message and asked me to cool down. They didn’t want any hysterical atmosphere on the forum… End of that story was that my tread was moved to a forum called “småprat”, small talk… Well. It is not SMALL TALK getting off tramadol, I screamed!! I have now deleted the hole tread. : P

So just keep on writing!!.

Enough of that. My last post was written in the morning. I am some ours before you. Have been refreshing the page some times during the day, I must admit.  
It’s now almost midnight and this has been a nice day!!

Went to work for some ours. And have been talking with my wife in a sophisticated manner.

Helping my daughter with homework. I am doing better!

Not free for withdrawals, but they are more in the background. Do I spot an end of this nightmare?
I do think/hope so!

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by SheLiz, Mar 28, 2011
Hi All

        As usual I'm so happy to see everyone get further and further away from Tramadol and getting thier lives back.  It's alos great for me to read posts from those of you who are still in the early days so I can remember the HELL and really see how far I've come since then.  Hang in there everyone the HELL coming off Tramadol does not last forever but the HELL staying on them will just get worse and worse.

        I've got a question (for anyone):  For the last couple of weeks I've gone back to having very itchy legs, arms and head which gets worse at night (a bit like early days of Tram w/d).  I doubt that it could still be Tram related but was just wondering if it was related to any of the other meds I am coming off.  The current scenario is:

Trams:  none for 127 days :-)
Seroquel:  Took the last one about 3 weeks ago :-)
Valium:  Only taking one or 1/2 about once a week
Fluvoxamine:  Have slowly tapered down to 12.5 mg per day (been on that for 2 weeks now - as of tomorrow I will start with 12.5 every 2nd day for 2 weeks then stop completely). Yay!!!  Could the itching be due to coming off this one?



Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Mar 28, 2011
ullr: writing is my therapy yes- I've never actually done meth, but the Trams were like meth for me as I could counquer the world as long as those little footballs were in my possession.

I am having bouts of good moods, and then EXHAUSTION from them after they are done.

I just ate a HUGE meal, probably shouldn't have, now i feel like garbage- I am trying to ignore the w/d, but I think I may have made them worse by eating. I notice the less I eat, the better I feel. I regret it.

Started getting the runs today- probably b/c day 4 is almost over and I'm assuming the Trams are almost out of my system completely.

The difference between me and some others is that I took them for a reason- I have severe IBS, I took tramadol to calm the runs- I looked up this website heathers ibs diet- I tried it once before, I think I'm going to have to stick to it religiously if I want to stay off of anything like an opiate.

Going to take a hot bath and try and relax my stomach... may be back later depending on whether or not my dose of klonopin knocks me on my arse.

love to you all!

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by MyFreedom, Mar 28, 2011
Sheliz ~ I had the itchiness on and off even at 5+ months out. I'm certainly no expert, but I would venture to guess that it is still random tram wd. Randy had a good term.... flashback withdrawals. I still had sneezy fits even further out. It may have something to do with tram having antihistamine qualities and our bodies adjusting to not having that constant dose of tram any longer. Have you tried any allergy meds to calm it down? While on tram none of the allergy meds would work for me, but now they do. Just a simple zyrtec or claritin works well for me.

Effin ~ Hopefully you have your supply of immodium available. It will be your friend for a while. The tummy problems will show up very suddenly. I always carried a couple of tabs in my purse. Maybe it was just me, but it seemed that any dairy...particularly milk....would make mine worse. It was like clockwork, I knew that anytime I had a milkshake or a bowl of cereal that I would be visiting the bathroom shortly thereafter. What I found very helpful, in addition to the immodium, was a probiotic. The absence of tram seems to wreck our beneficial bacterial system in our intestines (doc explained it as having sooo many opioid receptors in our intestines that the sudden absence of tram throws it way out of balance). Adding the probiotic reeeallllly helped me out. Have you tried it?

Ullr ~ You sound as if you are well on your way to freedom. Keep up the great attitude!


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by DamTram, Mar 28, 2011
LITTLE FOOTBALLS!!! Effin, I LOVE YOU!  Also, I'm just 2 years younger than you...I was starting to feel like I was the only person in their 20's with this problem.  Not that I'm glad that this happened to anyone or that I am NOT grateful for the beautiful, wonderful friends and advisors on here...but there was that, "Where's everybody else?  Is there something EXTRA wrong with me?"  Anyway, LOVE your ARE hilarious, and NEVER apologize for writing any novel on here.  We're lucky we're reading your stuff for free! =)

Little footballs!! I love it!  KICK!

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by rt35630, Mar 28, 2011 problem with the runs was early in tram wd - say day 2/3. Your situation with IBS would probably make that part more difficult. You are still very early in detox so try to deal the best you can. I did not have a bad issue but for about two days. By day 5 I was much better. There is a mental component to the recovery of tramadol addiction that lasts for a while after most of the physical symptoms improve. I still get insomnia and RES randomly. I will feel fine until bedtime and then it will either be there or not.

Ullr....things should be a lot better with you physically. My best advice is to try to get on a schedule as much as possible. Exercise and sunlight are the best medicine at this point. I guess it is cold where you live right now, or is it spring?

I haven't resorted to vicodin or lortab simply because they are opiates. I have a friend who said tramadol would get him by a few days when he ran out of those, so they may ease (and also extend) the recovery period from trams. I have found tranqualizers helpful. All I have had access to is valium, but xanax or klonapin would work, too. Just try not to take it too long or regularly and be sure to taper. I was prescribed xanax and klonapin at different times and the doctor made it a point to tell me not to stop those without a taper., so sorry. The worst should last a week or two. Be honest and tell your husband. If you did not know it was addictive it was an accident. You need them to know who they are seeing isn't the real you. It does get better! And better. The remedies spoken of (thomas recipe and etc) really do help.

Best to all!  -Randy

Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Mar 28, 2011
My Freedom: I definitely have the immodium on hand all the time- just from the whole IBS thing also- I take them even if i'm not sharting all over the place, even if I feel bubble guts and i've had a normal poo that day ill still take it,... it does help. I have probiotics, they have this powder that dissolves in water that I have- COMPLETELY forgot the name- will find it and get it to you, or for anyone else who might need it, I find it works better.

DamTram: SCORE! LMFAO I always called them that! They are my little pigskins ( we had a very special relationship) they never let me down UNTIL NOW! I am definitely one of the younger ones, but I feel that no matter what age we are, we all have something making us VERY CLOSE... This drug is a fckin ABOMINATION- I can't BELIEVE doctors give these to people and get away with calling them safe, harmless, I wanna tie up my dr. and FEED HIM TRAMADOL EVERY DAY FOR A YEAR, then after the year is up leave him in a locked room and watch him suffer with out them.
" Oh come on Dr. Abraham! C'mon! MAN UP! These aren't even addicting ya stupid son of a BISHHHHH!" BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH- ok I'm done :)

Randy: I did take the vicodin- I am being honest, I figure how bad could it be if I only have 5-  I haven't taken Vicodin in about 4 years and It wasn't even recreationally it was due to kidney stones. These are probably expired, but who cares.
So I took 1/2 this morning and 1/2 tonight- i feel NOTHING as far as euphoria just a TINY SHMINEY bit of relief from the RES- Ugh I hate the arm part- I literally PUNCH my arms and legs it's so bad, well not "PUNCH" but more like pound on em but nothing works- for the klonopin- i am only taking 1 per day for the past 2 days, so if I take it for another 5 days will I actually have to taper off? they are 1mg pills btw.

PS- Listen to the song by K's Choice- NOT A HABIT- I can really relate and not only that, I hope she isn't ACTUALLY going through this, b/c it makes me want to cry.

LOVE YOU ALL! ROCK ON!- ps- I am blunt and a little abrasive so let me know if I'm bothering any of you! lol

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by madtram, Mar 29, 2011
Effin, a week of klonopin should be ok, but if possible, I would taper down over the next five days rather than taking a complete dose every day.  When Emily & I were going through the process, Emily had been on klonopin for a while, having been prescribed it to help with the side effects of tramadol, (another home goal for the medical profession).  I was on Lunesta for tramadol related insomnia both while I was on tramadol & afterwards until I realised that it too was a big problem.

I had a terrible time getting off the Lunesta, which the benzo expert Dr Ashton regards as indistinguishable from other benzos in terms of its side effect & withdrawal profile & if you read back you will see that Emily had a bad time with the klonopin withdrawal.

In the course of my research, I discovered a study that found that tramadol & benzos interact in a way so that withdrawal from tramadol may trigger withdrawal symptoms from the benzo, even though you have not actually changed your benzo dose & vice versa.  So don't want to scare you & 7 days should be nowhere near enough for any sort of dependence to develop but ideally don't take them every day or taper them.

SheLiz, it could well be the fluvoxamine withdrawal that is giving you the itchy scratchies.  The serotonin & histamine chemical pathways are closely related & given that you had the same reaction with tram withdrawl, it's possible that changes to your serotonin levels somehow increase histamines in your blood stream.  As MF says, an antihistamine is worth a try.

Ullr, you sound much better, I hope that your wife is soon able to appreciate the new you.

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by ullr, Mar 29, 2011
Today is 3 weeks off!!

Yesterday was so good you can’t believe! I slept the hole night (yes i take sleeping pills)
The spring has arrived here north (freezing at night, but the sun is warming in day time). Really glad I do this now, and not in the dark, cold season.

I am almost free for withdrawals. And remember I was on BIG dozes (up to 1500-2500mg (ca 50 ultrams a day…)) for about 4 years .I can’t believe it… I was on something called TramageticOD. They contains 300 mg Tramadol… I’v been eating up to 10 a day…

If I can be free from this, anyone can!!

And I am almost there! So just keep up! It is hard, you feel insane and your brain will spin. Cramps, zapps and  exhaustion… depression..  

Wouldn’t believe I should be saying this for 10 days ago. I was so sick you cant imagine.
(Sorry for all my miss spellings. Hope you can read this. )

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by DamTram, Mar 29, 2011
cjjg - i am also sorry that you are in the depths of this.  i hope that we all stand as proof that we were in the EXACT same place and that it DID get better.  although i found Emily's journal on Day 2, i definitely could not even start to type until days later.  i remember just opening up my computer and typing enough to get to some page, video, music, or book...and then just lying there and staring at it.  see, you're already stronger than i was!  honestly, what helped me most...was being able to talk to family and friends about it.  NOT ONE friend or family member treated me like the addict i wasn't (of course, we were all addicted and many of us taking more than prescribed at the end...but, as Time Magazine calls people with chronic pain who take pain killers, it is a "faux-addiction").  even after i was ~28 days clean and went back to work and shared the horror with some colleagues, they were more freaked out by the drug and not me.  people are more understanding and hateful of pharmaceuticals than you'd think.  get the support you need, friend!

effin - i didn't know that about the benzos...definitely listen to MadTram!  I was on lorazepam pre- and during Tramadol, but I can't even remember when I stopped taking it.  i feel like maybe i stopped taking it before Tram withdrawal, because i don't remember using it to help.  i don't even know if that's a benzo.  it ends in -azepam, so i think so.  but, i was on a low dose (50mg, 1 pill).  you should be fine starting a taper, because your body is going to get better and stronger on its own BY THE HOUR.  that was my favorite part of Tramadol withdrawal.  i had spent months (and before the drug, years) hating my aching, fatigued body and life and during Tram withdrawal...EVERY SINGLE HOUR was better than the one immediately preceding it, in some way.  this was before Charlie Sheen's total breakdown, but i was WIIIINNING every flippin hour!  so try not to freak out, even after the vicodin are gone and the klonopin needs to be tapered.  your body has been betraying you for years with the IBS, yes, but i think that we can safely say that your body has been PUNISHED by you with all of those stupid footballs and your body is going to be SO GRATEFUL to not have to process them that, like MOST of us, the problems that we had before Tramadol were actually much less after acute withdrawal.  like i told my doctor (the prescribing ****), tramadol and getting off was like electric-shock therapy.  i am no longer sad, anxious, and am in tons less pain.  and am sleeping better than before.  so if they could just MARKET tramadol as the world experience in your life that will MAYBE leave you better than you started...then that would be SLIGHTLY more legal/humane.  MAYBE.

hope your days are better than the last!  follow-up job interview for me in 1.5hr and a second date tonight.  fingers crossed for both!  

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by rt35630, Mar 29, 2011
DT- Good luck and God be with you on both accounts. Hope the date is TONS of fun! We need more of that in our lives!

And everyone else....know that you are in my thoughts throughout each day, though I may not write as much. I am with you in spirit!


Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Mar 29, 2011
DamTram, MadTram, RT, ullr:

my question is- b/c I took the vicodin will that set me back on my tram withdrawal? like b/c I took the vicodin on day 2 and 3 and 4 1 per day in halves- none today day 5-is that why I'm not feeling as bad as I should? I am afraid to be honest. Can one measley vicodin taken 1/2 at like 6am and the other at like 8pm really relieve ALL of the symptoms to the point that I am easily and peacefully sleeping 6-8 hours?

I'm afraid that I've set myself back, and NOW that i've run out of vicodin that I will be feeling like day one again- I just assumed taking ONE vicodin for 3-4 days can't form any type of dependence.

i took 1/4 klonopin today so far since I woke up at 9am and that's really it besides the 5htp, b6, b12 and immodium.

I feel a little icky in the bottom half of my legs, not much energy and I have that feeling in my stomach like when you're about to drop on a rollercoaster , like almost an excited feeling.

I was speaking with my dads friend who is a Lawyer and he said something about  bringing a CLASS ACTION SUIT to these akyma PEOPLE

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by DamTram, Mar 29, 2011
Got the job and got an acceptance to the 1 year Master's program in the social sciences at University of Chicago!!  Today is a good day...thank you, Randy!!  I will keep hope alive for a fun second date.  

I love you wonderful people!!

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by DamTram, Mar 29, 2011
Didn't see your post, Effin...

Tramadol withdrawal is 90 days long.  Acute withdrawal is 4-7 days.  A setback from 5 vicodin will be almost undetectable.  Remember, vicodin is an opiate and tramadol is an OPIOID AGONIST.  They are not the same.  Vicodin is well-understood and its pathways are clear.  You are already going to be fighting this battle for awhile, so to get you through the worst of acute withdrawal...whatever.  In the end, it ain't gonna mean squat.  Just keep fighting.

Also, another user on this journal said that we'd have to have our PRESCRIBING DOCTORS involved in the class-action lawsuit.  As most of our doctors (mine included) started treating us like we were meth addicts (I love your analogy), that will be hard to do.  There have been private lawsuits, though.  We've heard.

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by SheLiz, Mar 29, 2011
Thanks MyFreedom and Madtram

                    I tried to post this yesterday but the sight was down for several hours.  I've got some phenergan now and that is helping with the itchy scratchies a bit.  As of today I'm down to 12.5mg of fluvoxamine every second day and will stop completely in 2 weeks.  

                    DamTram - Great news.  Sounds like a nice new start for you and good timing as you should really start to feel 100% very soon and will have the energy for it all.

                    Hey Randy - I remember how long it took you to jump and now you're at 48 days.  It seems lik only yesterday (bet it doesn't for you though :-)

                    EffinTrams:  I totally relate to wanting to feed your surgeon/doc tramadol for a year then lock them in a room to w/d :-)  It would certainly stop them from ever prescribing them again.

                    Ullr - 3 weeks is a great mark to get to.  Good to see some sleep is happening.  For a few weeks I thought I'd never sleep again but now I'm having great sleeps just about every night (and I've even stopped the sleeping pills).

              Well done to all of us!!!!!!

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by DamTram, Mar 30, 2011
So, date 2 led to a discussion of some of my tramadol struggles...and he was totally as angry as me (and understanding)!  I wasn't able to date the entire time I was on trams...when I would try, I would just stop caring and want to be at home alone.  This is all very exciting.

Thank you, SheLiz!!  Congrats on the SLEEPING!!  I slept 8 hours in A ROW last night!  It was INSANE!  Keep up the good work, lady!!

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by madtram, Mar 30, 2011
DT, what great news & an understanding date, to boot, you do have plenty to be excited about.  When does your masters program start?

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by rt35630, Mar 30, 2011
Dammit Trammit (DamTram)...

Thank you for putting a time frame on tramadol detox...3 months. Wow. How has that been decided? Is it because that is how long it takes your body to start making its own stuff again?

I feel okay physically. I can work okay. I feel mildly depressed. Having financial issues making ends meet, but there is nothing new there so that should not be the reason I feel depressed. Normally I deal with that issue and go on...I certainly lack energy and get-up-and-go.

I just don't care about things I normally would. Like a clean house. We keep the garbage emptied, dishes washed, kitchen sanitary, and bathroom clean. I have beautiful things but they are covered in dust. Joe will do the basic housework, but he isn't a finesse man. I do what has to be done, no more. That is not me.

When I come home from work, I go to the bedroom and watch TV or veg out on the internet. Unless it is pretty outside then I am motivated to go hiking or walk in a park. Otherwise I still tend to isolate.

I'm just becoming concerned that this is the way I will live the rest of my life and I don't like it. So y'all with longer clean time please give me a pep talk about how all this too, shall pass. I feel like I should be so thankful that the horrid early WD is over and deal with this like a man....but I don't want to turn 49 and act like I am in a rest home!

Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Mar 30, 2011
DamTram: Thanks for the advice- 90 fruckin days? omg this is gonna be a LONG BUMPY RIDE with out many bathroom breaks lol ( you'll see what I mean when you read below). ALSO what is the diff between an opiate and an opiate antagonist?
Congrats on your date!- also congrats on the fact that he actually understands- I am afraid that IF my current relationship stops working out, and I do try to date again, that telling them of my addiction would just freak them the fruck out, you give me hope that maybe it wont. and of COURSE congrats on your schooling! I really need to start caring about my future now that I am getting off these bastards, b/c I am still working a DEAD end job- those Trams STOPPED my life DEAD in its tracks- I feel like I am STILL 26, meanwhile I'm almost 30! ALSO- I do see your point about the Vicodin not making much of a difference b/c I didn't have ANY vicodin yesterday and I felt almost the exact same way I did when I had it, and was taking it. Really if I took the Vics I would feel better for like 2 hours TOPS and it wasn't even really THAT much better b/c I was only taking like one or 1/2.
Shelliz- I doubt my doctor would participate, although he is a MORON that can barely speak english maybe he should be practicing medicine in a place where he can properly communicate with his patients ( I am not a racist or ANYTHING of the sort so please don't assume that!!) I hate everyone equally.

This is where my NY state of mind comes in- bare with me on the humor.

OK so Day 6 is here- the RES is very faint in the background, the rollercoaster tummy ride has been open all morning- the anxiety is THROUGH the roof, but I'm trying HARD not to take a klonopin until I REALLY REALLY need it,... To top it ALL OFF I woke up with this wretched cold, OR IS IT?
It's like the way I've been feeling the past couple of days I have no idea whether it's from the EVIL PIGSKINS or if i'm actually sick.

Now this may be a bit graphic, but I HAVEEEEEEE TO KNOWWWW lol- So I wake up ( today is my day off THANK GOD) I go to the potty, come back to my bedroom, start having a FIT of SNEEZING and **** my panties like a fkcin geriatric. WHAT THE ?????? so now I have no control over my bladder? and I JUST PEED like 1 minute before! and I don't mean like a little pee, I mean like running down the leg, embarrassing elementary school peeing in the pants.Thoughts? lmfao

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by DamTram, Mar 30, 2011
Randy, I just remember reading that number over and over again in emily's early posts.  Of course there isn't a perfect number, but 3 months seem to be what people say as the final corner to be turned.  30 60 90.'s just adjusting to new life and building strength back.

MadTram, thank you!!  Yesterday made up for everything that's happened in the last year.  The masters would start in September and end in June.  It would include a thesis.  Chicago is not any ivy, but it's considered the most academically rigorous in the country, alongside harvard, Stanford, and Yale.  It will also involve a 25k loan...even though they gave a half tuition scholarship.   I would have to move home with my parents.  And I'm scared of the academic stress.  And the money.  But it sounds like the perfect way to solidify my interests and get a top name school in my dossier (their word).  But it would be pretty cool to focus on solely academia for a year.  How'd the labs go??

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by DamTram, Mar 30, 2011

An opiate is like heroin, morphine, descending order.  It fills up your opioid receptors fully and it comes from a PLANT.

An OPIOID AGONIST, and I'll remind you...Tram is only a PARTIAL opioid agonist, will fill up the receptors as designated by the type.  Because Tram is only partial, it only SORT of fills up SOME of the receptors...which is why tolerance and dependence happened so quickly.  Also, it confused your receptors for months and so it's not just like, "Oh, we were getting filled up and now we're not."  It's like, "Is it somewhere?? Will I be partially filled-up again??  Is it coming??  Is it not??"

And don't forget: Vicodin's opiate is supplemented with acetaminophin.  Tramadol's partial-opioid agonist is supplemented with A FRUCKIN ANTI-DEPRESSANT.  And in case you haven't read it before, it may be structurally identical to Effexor...BUT IT IS MECHANICALLY IDENTICAL TO MDMA/ECSTASY.  That's why your little footballs were so awesome for about 2 hours and you could conquer the world.  YOU WERE TAKING ECSTASY ALL DAY, EVERY DAY!  SURPRISE!!  

So, that's why Vicodin is (ironically) "safer" and less destructive than Tramadol.  It fills up your opioid receptors and when it's gone, they're just mad about it.  But then they get over it.  With Tramadol?  They're like...WTF, DUDE.  WE ARE PSYCHOTIC RECEPTORS, now, SOS.

About the bladder.  This has been discussed before, and I am especially keen on this issue since I have Interstitial Cystitis (Painful Bladder Syndrome).  The Tramadol weakened your bladder like WHOA.  It held your pee for you and it didn't really have to work at it because the receptors were all on meth and stuff and you were dehydrated anyway.  There just wasn't a lot of pee traffic.  In early withdrawal, the toxins are coming out through your urine and your pours, and there's no meth in the pain receptors of your bladder your bladder is confused because it has to WORK!  I'm so sorry that you're having this symptom, but it fits very well with your IBS profile.  They almost always go hand in hand (IC and IBS).  I hope that you find that this symptom eases with time, but if it doesn't...go see a urogynecologist and there are treatments that can be done to help.  I'm currently in the midst of getting bladder instillations once per week (with a catheter like, yes, a geriatric).  At the end of last week, I would pee when I'd sneeze or laugh...and this had NEVER EVER HAPPENED BEFORE.  Like I'm 87 instead of 27.  Anyway, get a fruckin maxi-pad and concentrate on holding your pee as long as you can to help stretch and strengthen the bladder...without drugs.  And know YOU'RE NOT ALONE.

Randy - I love it!  Dammit Trammit!

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by rt35630, Mar 30, 2011
I was Dammit Janet...from Rocky Horror.

Actually, I guess knowing that the stuff/problems hang on for a while explains where I am. I was overly dramatic this morning when I wrote. I just wish I was back to the person I used to be before all this carraapp!

I haven't looked at another Tramadol. I hate them. I want all traces erased from my life!


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by ullr, Mar 30, 2011
3 weeks and one day!

I have been reading some old post here, and found the fact that after a good day or two it will often come a bad one. It really is a bumpy road this tramadol recovery…

Well, that happened for me today. Monday was great. In many ways. Yesterday I went to work for some hours, then archery and then cinema (True Grit). Fell to sleep without sleeping pills. And slept ok through the night!
But this day…. Not good. Exhausted. Bad mood. Impatient with everything.
More zapps and dizziness then I have felt in days.  Just want to listen to music, loud.

Going to visit my doctor tomorrow. I have such high blood pressure, and he is quite worried about it. I also.
We also need to find a plan for how I can manage to phase out Oxazepam. And maybe find some other sleeping pills.

Another problem I have is that the elbow witch has been the root of all (medicine) hell for me is really bad and wrong. It was crushed in a skiing accident. And will never be cured. Ulnaris nerve is grown in permanent scars ... The whole “elbow mechanism” is broken.

I will never take pain killing pills again. Maybe we can find another solution that works for me. I have very high tolerance for morphine. Being on morphine’s for the rest of my life is not a good idea I think.

Thanks so much for all the support from you out there! It really helps me.

And I am thinking of you all that are in the middle of the withdrawals. All I can say is that it will be better.
When I was in day 2-6 I couldn’t do anything else then listen to music and do some small notes on paper.
When I was not sitting in hot baths… I think you are all very strong.

90 days is a long time though…

Avatar universal
by jhiraqua, Mar 30, 2011

        I have been addicted to this hellish drug for about 6 years. This is my 4th or 5th time attempting to quit!I started for chronic pain because I was told it was not addictive. I have never had a drug or alcohol problem in all of my 33 years and swore I'd never become one because of drug and alcohol addicted family members!Well,guess what?Here I am.....addicted to tramadol and so ashamed.I could go into more detail but I'm pretty sure you all know how this addiction began. I am currently going into my 6th day of cold turkey because my script ran out early as usual and I couldn't find or afford to buy anymore.I look at this as a blessing because with all the withdrawing that I'm going through it is getting better. I was taking up to 30 trams a day plus 2-3 tylenol pm's with each dose of 10. I know,right.............I should have had a seizure or been dead by now but niether has happened,thank God!But I want to do this and I will!I have lost so much time and destroyed so many relationships because of this drug. So wish me luck just as I wish you all luck!We can do this!!!!!

Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Mar 30, 2011
JHiraqua- You are so NOT alone- I am on day 6 as well- I joined this forum DURING my last dose of 100mg and eventhough I feel like HELL- I did it!- I am using klonopin for the anxiety and for sleep- I am taking  5htp, B6, b12, have immodium on hand all the time, a GREAT multi vitamin with iron, I take all of these every day and I have been getting through it- I am constantly EXHAUSTED which has totally made me crave these little azzholes, BUT I try to say to myself " I'd rather be exhausted and sleeping all day, then exhausted and NOT be able to sleep b/c of the RES ( restless EVERYTHING syndrome)- I say to myself everyday- " I can plan on using my $ for Bills and not Pills" I can wake up in the morning NOT worried about where my pills are, or dumping them out into my hand, counting and saying ok- by this day I need to scheme for more, or visit ANOTHER doctor, or maybe i'll see if I can make a phone call or 2 for something else if I can't get my script" I'm not afraid anymore, I'm not afraid of not having these pills!

I can make plans now KNOWING that it wont matter if I have pills or not, I can have a LIFE.

I try to ignore the depression, I watch A LOT of funny movies, TRY and keep myself busy, and talk talk talk to you guys and on the phone and to anyone who will listen and LAUGH- I know it's hard, but LAUGH!!!

I was hanging out with my little sister lastnight watching Waynes World and I actually LAUGHED! and that gave me a RUSH- wow  how about that? Laughter can be fun! FCUK those pills!

Everyone on this forum is AMAZING- I can truly say that with out them I would be sitting in my bed- shades drawn- PRAYING for another pill.

YES we all have reasons to be on them, but I'd take the pain, the stomach aches ANYDAY over feeling like this ONE MORE MINUTE! You can do it! Tell me how you're doing everyday, since we are on the EXACT same day today I am very interested in seeing how our symptoms differ!

Good Luck to you! and Love to you as well!

Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Mar 30, 2011
DAMTRAM: I didn't see your post at first- EXTACY? are you kidding me? ok so now my next question is- Am I going to be FLUCKING brain damaged for the rest of my life now? I actually don't mind the constant peeing b/c at least I know now that the more stuff that comes out, the more of the EVIL that comes out with it.

I am trying so hard to be positive- I try and watch funny movies- keep myself busy- I take like 3 hot baths a day- I am using the Klonopin to stop me from having the RES- I will taper once I feel I am capable of facing the day with out beating myself in the arms and legs with a bat to stop the feeling ( which is NOT medical advice people lol, It hurts and doesn't actually work, but I pretend it does)

Is it possible to have good days and bad days SO EARLY in recovery?

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by DamTram, Mar 30, 2011
Effin, totally not kidding you.  However, this whole process is proof to HOW RESILIENT THE BRAIN IS!  I know there are folks on here who were on it for 10+ years, some at normal doses and some at very high doses...and some had reached a very scary point, mentally, but EVERYONE is recovering.  I know there's one person who feels as though everyone in their life has changed, and is recovering from a lot of paranoia...and THAT person is appreciating the clarity of thought that is coming back to them, TOO!  

Your brain WILL NOT be flucking brain damaged!  Yayyyy!  Congratulations!  I've said it before, but I'll say it again...I have suffered from depression and anxiety MY ENTIRE LIFE and NOW...having survived Tramageddon (w.d included), I AM NEITHER DEPRESSED NOR ANXIOUS.  I will always be whackadoo and crazy, but depression, paranoid, and anxious I am not.  I didn't even think this was possible.  EVAR.  

And of COURSE the good days and bad days come early!  And the good and bad hours, too!  I'm thinking of Randy in particular, who had an amazing day 5 or day 6, and then the following was rough.  I am became SO addicted to laughter during that time...and addicted to going to stand-up comedy shows, etc.  It IS a rush, after not being able to really laugh for 6 months!  And cry.  You should try crying (I know, weird...but really).  Watch an episode of A&E Intervention, ideally a pill episode (duh).  The end will bring the waterworks, usually.

If you ever see a doctor again, you COULD ask about Trazodone.  It's an ancient anti-depressant that can help RLS, IBS, and IC in even a small dose.  It has saved me from RLS and even my mild IBS symptoms.  Getting off of it maybe wouldn't be as terrible as Klonopin, and it might even be more effective?  Dunno.  

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by NoraTorious, Mar 30, 2011
Effin- Welcome, and hells yeah, you will have some great days after your first 3-4 of recovery. I started cold turkey, but checked myself in hospital. I am certainly glad I did. I met a lot of great people, and I was monitored, which is something I did not want to addle the poor husband with.

One thing I have never mentioned was my peering experiences the first days in detox. I literally had to squeeze the pee out of me. I could feel the need to pee, but it would not come out! And I am a regular peeing gal. I usually drink at least a half gallon of water a day.

So here I am, somewhere between 75 and 90 days. And I can say, for the most part, life is good. The one thing that has changed is my ability to go out and be social. My husband and I went to a going away party for another couple. The are moving to KY, and I know they were already missing the so cal Mexican food. So I made abondigas soup, which I have gringo-ized a bit. The hosts of the party were looking after a friend's twin daughters, and they took a liking to me since they were working on some art projects, and here I was, art girl, so I gave them some guidance. The fact that I was able to get up, make soup from scratch, get dressed up and go to a party, and be actually social with the grownups as well as the kids? This time last year I would be almost certain this would have been impossible.

I am either having flashbacks or I am getting the flu. Stuffy head, yellow/greeny gunk coming from my nose, coughing, and very achey and weak. Weak as a kitten. I can't be sure if this is really the flu or just my body wanting to revisit those nostalgic s**tty first 30 days of withdrawal.

And my husband is up for another job. This one is much better paying, and he would be doing more of the stuff he is good at. So please, please, pray to your varied dieties for this one. He is such a hard worker and so the nicest guy in the world, (why he is with me is anyone's guess) I just want him to feel better, and I know this would put him in a good frame of mind.

And me, well I am just waiting on the app process from the museum, and seeing if I might be able to volunteer at another local museum. And doing my art. Trying to put in time for that every day, but when you are feeling lousy, well, you know how that is. I am taking my vitamins, emergenC and eating honey on the comb. Also, I am cooking like crazy.tonight, if I am sting enough, I am going to try my hand at spicy Thai soup.

Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Mar 30, 2011
DT:I am worried about the klonopin- I get ABSOLUTELY ZERO euphoria from it, but I feel NORMAL again when I take a dose. ugh wtf am I doing to myself here- I am scared that once the 7 days are up i'll be addicted to klonopin now- freaking myself out- manicccccccccccccccccc

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by DamTram, Mar 30, 2011
Do what MadTram said...start the taper now!

Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Mar 30, 2011
Noratorious: Didn't see you there before oddly enough lol- thanks!  I love reading all of your success stories, however I have this lingering annoying MANIC thought that I am setting myself back by taking klonopin to help ease the withdrawal- I am not abusing it by any means 1mg MAYBE 2mg if I am having trouble sleeping or even LIVING, but I don't plan on doing this for more than a week so I'm not sure what i'm feeling about these pills... its the one thought on my one track mind right now- I have work at 10am and it's 12am- so I better get the hell to bed considering I have to drug myself half to death just to get to sleep it's HELLLLLLLLLLLLL waking up in the morning.



Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Mar 30, 2011
how can I start the taper now, If I only started taking them 2 days ago? I still need the full dose to be able to function :(

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by DamTram, Mar 30, 2011
Well...functioning is the most important, so maybe just don't worry about it until the week is over?  As long as you'll have enough to taper after that?

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by madtram, Mar 30, 2011
Effin, if you want to stay on the klonopin for longer, you will need to see your doctor to get a script to give you enough to maintain for a bit longer then taper from there.   Most probably, a couple more weeks won't make much difference but no-one can give you a guarantee about it, some people, (me included) are sensitive to benzos, others have no problems using them for withdrawal.  

If you are getting a script, you would be better of with valium anyway as it has a much longer half-life which makes it easier to withdraw from.  2mgs of klonopin is equivalent to 40mgs of valium which is a decent dose so you may be able to get by with less by switching.

DT's suggestion about trying trazodone is probably even better as it doesn't have the tolerance factor of tram or benzos.  Others on this site have found it helpful although I can't say I have tried it myself.

DT, loved your explanation of agonists, you should be a biochem major too.

Nora, glad things are gradually improving for you.  Your immune system is probably a little low after the stress of withdrawals, not to mention daily life, but sounds like you do have a lurgy.  Sending good luck vibes once again for your DH's job prospects.

Ullr, congrats on your 22 days.  Dr Ashton has a good taper schedule for oxazepam at

jhiraqua, if you are on day 6 already, you have a great investment in staying off.  Are you taking any supplements to ease the path?

Go well warriors.

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by ullr, Mar 31, 2011
madtram... thanks for the advice on tapering oxazepam. I will bring it to my doctor today. Maybe it will be better to be on diazapam (valium) for this time. I am not addicted (I think : /) to it by now. I wil use it No longer than necessary.  

This extacy comparison scares me a bit.

But something is good. I can start, as others say, to plan my life without counting pills. Checking my pockets for suplies. Do I have enough tabs in my office? In my car. I wonder how many hours I have been waiting in the pharmacy.
-Yes, its me again....

I have not been having money problems from my abuse for the last years, because my accident happened when I was at work, my incurense pay all medicine needed...
I went to a pain clinic, and the doctors ment that 4 tabs of tramagetic should be ok, but they didnt say how strong (think they ment 150 mg, but I was on 300mg tabs)... so here I am

Slept bad this night even with Nitrazepam. Got a couples of kicks to the head from my 2 years old son during the night as well ; ) He has some odd sleeping positions...

And where is the spring? Outside my window it is snowing again..
Have "nice" day all of you! Thinking especially about you that is in the first couples of weeks... Life will return ; )

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by DamTram, Mar 31, 2011
Go, Nora, Go!  I'm sorry about the snotties.  One of the ladies that hired me was telling me how she had to have her septum operated on, and as a result...hasn't had a head cold since (2 years)!  It made me super jealous and curious.  Glad you are otherwise enjoying life as you well deserve.

MadTram, from you that is a high, high compliment!  I'm a total sham, though.  I did and published psychopharmacological research, but ONLY for opioids, GHB, and cocaine.  But the opioid study was the main one, so it's my thing.  Horribly ironically.  Again, I blame my Tram experience as payback from the rats that died at my hands for 'science'.  I don't know what goes on in Biochemical research, but I could never go back to hurting the ratsies again.  It's why I ended up working with people.  Except, my next research experience with people ended up involving a double-blind group of men in their 20's and 30's whose testosterone loops had been cut off.  They didn't die like the rats, but they wanted to.  This is why I ended up going into teaching.  I could observe and enhance cognition, drug-free.  But, Educational Psych research is NOT well-funded (no money-making opportunity), so I'm reevaluating everything.  Biochem/Neuro is most defintiely fascinating, though.

Ullr, I know you joined our forum later in your withdrawal...but what an awesomely fast recovery it seems you're having!  I know it's totally the same time-frame as everyone else, but your change from hopeless to hopeful was wonderful, quick, and inspiring.  Good for you for making the decision to work to getting off the benzos.  I was always scared of anything that ended in -azepam because they're always 'pushing' things that end in -azepam on the medical shows when someone is freaking out.  That said, I was totally on Lorazepam for 2 years.  Weird, though...never had withdrawal from it.  Stupid brain, tricking me into thinking I can just stop drugs without tapers (though that thinking got me off of Tramadol, whew!).  

How ya doin today, Effin?  Is this an on-work day?

Avatar universal
by LivingnPresent, Mar 31, 2011
Wow... I am so grateful to see this site still going strong...all the support and love and encouragement..amazing.  I am just checking in..Don't get out here too often ..but I need to I need to be reminded how insidious this drug is... Today I am 337 days clean!!!!    very grateful..and truly this site was the reason my healing journey began.  To all of you out there struggling.. you have my deepest respect for the battle that you wage... and please know that the battle can be won... I did the taper routine..this is just my experience..doesnt work for everyone. it did for me....Do I stll think about Tramadol after 337 bet I do.... But through the grace of God...supportive family and friends..and this site.. I will not go back down that road.. It is about learning to love and value ourselves... to know that we deserve better than the life that Tramadol offers (or lack of life I should say)  - I noted above posts about the socialization issue..  so true..i became so withdrawn and not able to engage...  Now..I am back to the outgoing...people loving person that I had been pre-Tramadol.. I am present for all the gifts...people, events, etc.  that life offers on a daily basis .. the gifts I missed out on when I was in the Tram haze..
I want to thank you all..from deep in my heart ..for sharing your experience, strength, hope...your stories...your courage, your humor... has been a HUGE part of my recovery ..even though I don't come out here often enough.  
I wish you all peace, love, courage, strength..and the knowledge that you can win this battle!!!

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by rt35630, Mar 31, 2011
jhiraqua - I just wanted to say a personal welcome - though many of us may not think so at first - the forum IS the best place to be if you are fighting to get off tramadol - thus, the welcomes you receive should give you immediate hope. I remember coming here several months ago, and then waiting till I had the courage to take the jump and give up those evil pills. Now at 40+ days I am still fighting, but WOW! I don't spend every minute of every day worrying about those dam poision pills.

You will find in reading the various journal posts many ways to help ease your withdrawl, but even more powerful is the hope that those who came before you and beat this crap gives. My feeling is most here started out being prescribed this drug. I was one of the ones who foolishly chose it recreationally. I "heard" it was safe by my father who takes a low dose every day for pain control. His doctor told him it was not addictive. I don't discuss the subject with him because he isn't abusing the medication and he needs it. Heaven help if he decides to get off of it.

Anyway. I DID IT! I am really proud. I am dealing with a some tedious minor after-effects or late withdrawl symptoms that come and go - nothing like the first couple of weeks but it makes me mad. Then I remember who I have to blame and get on with life.

We are here for you. Write as little or as much as you want. It is good therapy for all of us. Peace....Randy

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by rt35630, Mar 31, 2011
WOW - 50 days....that is a landmark, I should think!  -RT

Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Mar 31, 2011
MT- I havent been on them for more than a few days now- only taking when i really need- been at work since 9am and took all my vitamins EXCEPT for my klonopin- I kinda HATE the way they make me feel so I really doubt i'll be on these for much longer. I don't even want to take them half the time, but my life is so FULL - I live with my entire family of 5 not to mention my sisters boyfriend is ALWAYS there, Brothers Girlfriend ALWAYS there, MY boyfriend ALWAYS THERE, Fathers business associates ALWAYS there! we have a TON of animals 4 parrots, rabbit, and  dog (boxer) ( Rottweiler)- my mother is in remission from cancer, we have to keep it a VERY low stress environment for her, no attitudes, no arguing, NONE OF MY DRUG ADDICT BULL ****- if she needs help with the laundry, cleaning, pets, people, cooking, ANYTHING and asks me- I HAVE TO DO IT, no matter how many times my *** or mouth have visited the toilet that day, no matter how much I feel like DYING, no matter how little energy I have. I truly believe I need to be on SOMETHING, but what? not trammys, not pain pills, the whole benzo thing isn't gonna last more than a few more days.

DT- Yes today is an ON day and I wish I could jump OFF of a cliff lol- xo

Ugh my moods go from AWESOME to SHIAT filled in about 3 seconds FLAT.

TODAY IS DAY 7- please let the next 7 come fast love you all so much!

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by rt35630, Mar 31, 2011 is different for everyone, but you should start to see larger increments of improvement daily now. And I know it is hard, but doing the chores, etc, is probably good for your body. The exercise rids the toxins faster and also helps your body make the good things it needs.

Oh, joy....four parrots. I had a Mexican Redhead for a while that was wonderful as long as he was being paid attention to, otherwise all he did was scream, regardless of whether or not his cage cover was on. He was badly socialized with the people that had him before us, but however awful I felt about it...I just couldn't take the constant need for attention and I gave him to a pet store. On the other hand, we adopted a B/G Macaw when in San Francisco. Her people had a baby after they got her and she was so jealous they gave her (the parrot) up for adoption, and we got her. She was pure joy ALL the time. Hardly ever screeched...just a constant mummur of "hellos" in English. She had a 15-20 word vocab at that time and not just mocking. She truly was one of the family. She was happy in or out of her cage (which was a small room size). When Steven died suddenly in 2006 and I decided to move back to our small hometown in Alabama I made the difficult choice to place her back with the rescue society we got her from, and she is very happy with another California based family. I love the larger social and in a different way from our more common companion animals, though I love those too!

I hope everyone is doing well. Today is my Friday! It has been awful weather here for the past five or six days. Wet and COLD - in the 40's, after many days in early March that were unseasonably warm and sunny. Tomorrow the sun is supposed to show itself and the temps back up in the 60's, then Sat is all sun and 70's with Sunday in the 80's. Yay! I need that so badly. It helps me more than anything right now.

Although, thanks to MyFreedom, I have 5htp again, which definitely made a difference within hours of starting back on that.


Avatar universal
by Sydney0502, Mar 31, 2011
Ok, I gotta know..who has experienced this unbelievable, horribly uncomfortable BLOATING when you stop Tramadol?  I feel like the wind is knocked out me, like something is holding against my rib cage.  When I eat alittle it is worse and when I eat a full meal..hell.

I have been exercising non stop and this is hideous.

I remember a lady on here about 3 years ago when I was just lurking and tried to stop briefly..she complained of this too.  So much so she took all the over the counter's for bloating and gas (although i dont feel gassy just "swollen" all over).  She then went to a doctor who really didnt have a clue.  Never heard what happened to her.

I KNOW that Tramadol does something with how our body processes fluids as I couldnt pee for a long wait the more I took but for me, it was better as I didnt feel the "need" to pee or that full feeling as much.  I also could drink massive amounts of pop and not feel bloated or anything so when you stop Tram something is happening to my body I just want to know it is temporary and not permanent.

Its awful.  I am an athletic nut.  Tram also made me lose over 15 lbs.. so whatever it does to your GI tract it is in reverse at this point since I am 2 weeks off.
I just hope it hasnt messed up my body to always feel this way.  Its awful.

Avatar universal
by Sydney0502, Mar 31, 2011
I guess I rambled too much in prior post without giving you'all the facts.  I will have 14 days this Saturday.  So I am off the Trams yet feel very swollen, water retention but also just bloated throughout.  Like when you eat something before you work out and all your oxygen is going to the meal in your gut so you are out of breath.

This bites.

Can anyone help if this happened to you and does it go away???

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by rt35630, Mar 31, 2011
I can't say that I felt bloated. Did not eat as much on tram and did keep the pounds down. But I never felt bloated during wd or after. Perhaps while I was on the tram I may have felt what I would call bloated as my body was not excreting properly.

Had trouble peeing to the point I resorted to sitting because it took so long. I thought I had prostate problems (at almost 49 that may be the case to a degree) and I hardly ever had to poo and when I did, it did not want to flush it was so hard.

Within a week after stopping the trams, I was peeeing a decent stream and standing up doing so cause it did not take too long, and once the runs were over, normal bowel movements.

My appetite grew though, and I could eat all the time. I quit keeping anything "snacky" around, and now I eat breakfast most days (pills were my breakfast before) and I absolutely have to have a small lunch or I can't function in the office. I eat dinner, and if that happens early, a small something later in the evening. My weight seems steady so thank God for that.

May be different for men and women....Randy

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by SheLiz, Mar 31, 2011
Hi All

        I've just been trying to catch up on all the recents posts and have noticed a couple of members asking about timelines for noticing real improvement.  I agree with the 90 day mark being a good average.  For myself I do remember being around that mark and although I was definitely over 99% of the w/d I was still wondering when I was ever going to feel REALLY GOOD again.  I was a little disappointed that I wasn't feeling totally 100% becuase the 90 days were up.  Anyway, around the 110 day mark it kicked in and I can happily say that since then I have been 120% most days.  I have had one or 2 tired days but there has usually been a good explanation for that.  

        I can honestly say I haven't felt this good in years and some days I feel like I have a ton of adrenalin pumping through me and I am making the most of that by getting out and LIVING.

        So, whatever your timeline, you will get there and it will be great.

PS I'm still in a lot of pain from all of my original injuries but I am able to deal with it all better emotionally and have the energy to keep myself busy and distracted.  


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by ullr, Apr 01, 2011
It was snowing all yesterday, and the garden, the trees, the roofs are covered in white again. I fell asleep at 8 with my son in last night .Woke up  a few times during the night, but slept in fact a lot. And no sleeping pills.

Visited my doctor yesterday and got a new prescription for 25 pcs. Oxazepam (25 mg) for anxiety and 20 pcs. Nitrazapam (5 mg) for insomnia. They should keep for 14 days. Max 2 per day. After dinner.
Will try to limit my intake as much as I can. It started with me taking 3 Oxazepam yesterday ... My doctor believes that to stop Oxazepam will go smoothly, since I do not suffer from "normal"anxiety and restlessness.

This is my third prescription. Thus I has eaten 50 pieces in  3 weeks. It's not SO much?
He (the doc) travels to France today, so now I'm without a doctor in 14 days. Has visited him every week since I stopped tramadol. He is (despite the fact that he has given me too much tramadol) a good doctor. Has known me since I was born, and know the most about me ... I'm off work til 15 April, but may be at work when I want. And do the tasks I feel like I can handle.

Had to go all day with a blood pressure machine attached to the body to measure through the day. So I did not go to work. Did not walk my walk. Just sat at home listening to music or watch television.
Looked a bit in the measurings along the way, and they were not as high as they have been when I've measured with the doctor.

Not quite smoothly with my wife. Not quite smoothly with my daughter (12).

Randy: I ​​had great difficulty to pee when I was on tramadol. Had to have running tap water, etc. Now it flows! No problems whatsoever! But I eat and eat. And notice that I ballooning. I did not eat badly when I was on tramadol either, but now ... I'm hungry all the time. My face is puffy. My stomack is...big

For about a week ago I had suicidal thoughts almost constantly. So no hope anywhere. Now I've stopped doing that!
Not that I'm fine. Far from it. Everything is strange and painful and empty. But this forum, and just that time passes, it helps me. The beginning of the week was good. Then I felt that I was in the process of regaining health, but from Wednesday there have been worse. The body has been heavier. The dizzyness has come back.

My cramps by the way are more or less gone now. I took some homopatick magnesium, and I think it worked.

Thinking to go home to my parents this weekend. So that the others who live in this house not will be so affected by my problems.

But I hope you others have an ok time! Thank you for being there!

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by rt35630, Apr 01, 2011
ullr- remember recovery is a roller coaster. Good day(s) bad day(s). It gets better and better towards the good. Just keep up the most positive attitude you can and as soon as the snow is gone get back outside. Praying for you and your family.  -Randy

Oh, my appitite has moderated. You should soon see some improvement there. But you are not taking those poision pills that act like diet pills so you have to be careful. I ate all I wanted early on. I think my body needed the food. I do think vitamin supplements help.

Avatar universal
by Sydney0502, Apr 01, 2011
Hi Randy, thank you for replying. Yes, I think it is Women I need to hear from.  I ate these instead of breakfast too and the whole peeing thing happened to me too (I actually liked that (back then) because I am one that usually has to pee 4/5 times a day). I hate it.

Anyway, no more women?  I cant believe this is so uniquie to me.  It is very uncomfortable and annoying.  No women out there had any kind of bloating for awhile.

I think I noticed it on my taper since I was on such a high dose..over 1100mg (32/36 50mg pills a day).  I acutally remember alittle bloating when I knocked out my late afternoon 8 pills.  

Anyway..I am excercising to keep myself from going insane.  I have the problem of eating now though.  I do get hungary alot.  Could go all day without food before.

I hate Tramadol.  

Avatar universal
by Sydney0502, Apr 01, 2011
Is Finally Fred and Emily still here or are they all gone?  Just curious.  This thread doesnt seem as active as it used to be.  Im sur they are enjoying sobriety.

Avatar universal
by Sydney0502, Apr 01, 2011
Dam Tram, I just read an earlier post from you,

..."Sydney, I did not eat on Tramadol...but that's because it STOPS your metabolism and digestion.  I barely lost any weight, and I was definitely eating less than 1000 calories/day...if that.  I was totally bloated and squishy and gross.  My body had atrophied.   "...

How long did the bloating last?

I am convinced it sped up my metabolism on it, how else could I go all day without eating and when I did eat..nothing.  I ate foods I NEVER would let in my house ...cakes, reecey cups, pizza...and still could jump in my size 0 jeans.

Starting the taper I noticed bloating starting to come on more and more. Now its just there.

The good news is my hungar isnt as out of control as I thought..but having trouble eating well again since I was so used to eating the wrong things on Tram and getting away with it.

I do think it does somethig to our overall digestive system..hense why my body is in shock.  I am praying about it alot..(Im very sensitive to this kind of stuff...I know I might be alittle annoying as many of you are probably thinking..who cares, as there are worse side affects).  I do think it will get better the more Im away from this but kinda scary every morning waking up to this "tight" feeling in my gut.  My legs feel swollen under the skin too.

For women who go through cycles, and all the women uncomfortables we deal with this is why it bothers me more..atleast with PMS you know its relieved in a day or so after our period.  Well I had my period several days ago.  UGHHHH

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by kdemers4, Apr 01, 2011
Effin, I wanted to comment on what your feeling about what you said on brain damage. I am one of the people who had Major mental issues due to Tramadol. I took tram non stop for 12 yrs with a big  mixture of antidepressants that my (Old) Doc said was safe and fine to do, he still insists it is. It isn't!

I went completely off the deep end, and even with seeking help from my doctor, It got me no wheres. PARANOID wasn't even the exact word for how i felt.

I was so scared.. I knew that i was suffering from something but not being medically smart I had to learn and teach myself. Also i learned so much from the kind, caring people here.

It wasn't until after a few weeks of detoxing alone that my neurologist said, You had Serotonin syndrome and should have put yourself in the hospital. Hmmmmmmm! I thought i had reached out for help? My idiot Doc that said it was fine to mix meds will still insist I never had that, His explanation is this... I never had one of my patients that was diagnosed with that. Well you have now ya putz! GRRRRRRRRRRR!

Tramadol had almost completely ruined my marriage!! I have been on a slow up-hill climb, I am gradually gaining back my mind and thoughts. I say about 90% healed from that.  I do have sporadic tiny thoughts and I can atleast say wait a min that isnt right.. So I can talk myself through it.

I don't wish my worse enemy to go thru these things. There are days where I wish I could just take one of those pills to get that NO Feeling back. As I have been flooded over with all these new feelings, I am just not used to.

I have i think been clean 50 something days and one last issue remains for me, which I spoke to Dam-tram about. I couldn't put my finger on.. I Feel/ felt everyone around me had changed and I was picking up on personality traits from them, That I had never seen before.
I feel like I don't fit in, which was making me very sad, I have lost time and memories are vague to me. I guess its like having amnesia for years, coming out of it and going home to people who you somewhat used to know. Now I am learning how to fit in again.
My husband has taken this all very rough, he is NOT one to be emotional. I hate this trait in (some) men.. I really needed him but I think now I just wasn't mentally well. I was pushing and pushing.
I have told him, You are different to me. His response is... You are the one who has changed. I am still the same husband you married..
So, I am taking Damtrams advice and grow and re-learn who I am.
Sorry for such a long comment,
*You will heal, its amazing how our brains can recover from all sorts of problems.
We are all so much stronger for getting our-selves off this maddening drug. Out of the fog comes new life.. <3

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by DamTram, Apr 01, 2011
Kdemers, you sound great!  Keep up that open, positive perspective.  You have been through so much.  So inspiring to see you conquer all.

Sydney, I would bet that even though you were eating junk, you were still barely eating at all.  Your metabolism SLOWS down when you are not eating, so it allows you to not feel hungry (survival).  It's what opioids do.  Energy does not equal sped up metabolism, even though speed and other amphetamines will do that.  Your body is using its liquids to get tram out of your system, so youre bloated and peeing and hopefully sweating it out.  It sounds like you are someone who is very sensitive to outward changes in appearance, but I wish you could accept that this WILL pass...just like a lot of the symptoms of withdrawal that you avoided with the subs.  What will not pass is what society and culture has done to us women regarding our weight and appearance.  Because those issues became tied to your tram use, I would hope so much that you would seek out help in working through the stuff that's preventing you from ignoring the bloating and taking joy in your survival.  Emily doesnt post anymore, but we have a great group of people right now...just not during u.s. nighttime.  Madtram will surely comment, soon.  In the meantime, be patient with your body.  It has been through so much trauma with this and it is working on it.

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by Slowandsteady, Apr 01, 2011
Hey all, I dont know if anyone remembers me here, I detoxed for 2 weeks in dec but relapsed, here's my post from then:

"Well, I've sure been here before.

I believe this is the third or fourth time I've gone cold turkey.

I go for months, lose all symptoms, and tend to forget the hell I went through. I'm 20, away at university though go home in the holidays. That is my downfall. My parents both take this drug, and I cannot in any way try to even show them how it's controlling them, because they think i'm too young to understand what they're going through.

You see they dont know I take them, I'm self medicated, no evil doctors, just an innocent question of "Can I take anything for this cold mum?" led me to a 500mg a day habit over years. I bought them online. I realised they were controlling me, I stopped. Went home for the holidays, saw them there in the drug cabinet, and thought, one wont hurt, right? Wrong. This has happened multiple times.

I'm on day 3 now, pushing through the restless legs, shivers, runs, brain zaps, migraines, insomnia and hell. I know the end is just around the corner, I've done this so many times I know exactly where I am and how long it will take, though it NEVER gets any easier. "

Now, I relapsed around 11 days after that post. Here I am now on my fifth day of withdrawal after stopping on monday, struggling very hard not to relapse again.

My mind keeps flicking back and saying "one wont hurt, just take one and then you can stop again" I know this is not true. One will hurt. One will make me relapse and return into the haze.

This place is a god-send. The only time I will ever relapse is if I am not active in this community. So I am going to stay active here to prevent from slipping back. My RLS has calmed but the brain zaps are still here. My appetite is crazy and my worries are starting to get on top of me. I managed to combat acute withdrawals with loperamide(imodium). Did you know imodium is an opiate? It just doesnt cross the blood brain barrier so you dont get high, it just causes the gi tract effects ( constipation ).

Anyway, that's enough rambling. I just want you all to know i'm here fighting alongside you, and want to thank everyone posting here for helping me through my darkest days.


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by DamTram, Apr 01, 2011
Thought you guys would enjoy this post from Jezebel (*******).  

"This month in the journal Sleep Science, Brazilian researchers speculate that masturbation may calm restless leg syndrome. Previous studies have shown that an imbalance of dopamine may be a contributing factor. Drugs that increase dopamine have been shown to reduce RLS symptoms, but an orgasm, which provides a natural dose of dopamine, may help too. The researchers only mention possible benefits for men, but if any of you ladies suffer from RLS, there's no harm in performing a one-woman scientific study."


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by DamTram, Apr 01, 2011
slowandsteady, welcome back!!  that makes 3 of us 20-somethings posting here, currently.  we WILL be there for you when you get clean this time...this FINAL time!  check out the quote I just posted.  maybe it will help with your RLS? =)

your tramadol relapsing sounds like my smoking relapsing, and that was only ever combated by reading the book, The Easyway to Quit Smoking, by Allen Carr.  i know your issue isn't smoking, but he generally refers to nicotine as TOTAL DEVASTATION anyway, and all you really need to do when reading it is insert 'Tramadol' for 'cigarettes' with your brain.  rainallday is slowly plowing through it right now for smoking, but i'm interested to hear from him about whether or not he thinks the book would be helpful to Tramadol relapsers, as well.

we will keep you accountable, so do NOT take one!  not ever!  are you taking any supplements to help you through this time?  are you starting to get up and walk around and get active?  let us know how we can help.

happy friday, ya'll!

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by Slowandsteady, Apr 01, 2011
Hey damtram,

I'm taking valerian root for sleep, 5htp for sleep/depression. Omega fish oils, b12 complex and berocca (emergenC type thing).

My RLS is alright at the moment but I may take up that remedy some time soon xD

This is the final time for sure, i'm not going to relapse again, so please do hold me accountable and keep poking me to make sure I dont fall back ;)

I'm being very active, been running since day 2. I relate this to my young age as I know WD's can knock some people down for days before they can think of moving. The withdrawals have still been crippling in many ways though. I'll keep pushing through. I found the best way to keep myself off of trams is to literally get angry at them. They are my enemy. Personify them, imagine them as a horrible monster clawing at you, this helps me keep my distance.

If anything I relate tramadol to The Sirens from Greek mythology. Gently singing and calling you to keep you in their embrace, only to attack you if you attempt to escape.

I hate tramadol, and always will. I wont let it control me again.

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by Slowandsteady, Apr 01, 2011
Also I researched something.
A large dose of immodium "can" remove 90% of withdrawal.

It did for me anyway, though i'm not going to say it will for you.

Now i've read about people taking a few boxes at once, but I wouldn't recommend that. I took say 4 tabs firstly then another 2 whenevr I felt restless.

It got rid of brain zaps, RLS and helped me sleep.

I didnt believe it either but seriously. This stuff helped me. Whether it was a placebo or not I dont know. All I know is I've had post acute withdrawal about 6 times and using immodium made it about 5 times easier.

Research it yourself if you want. Loperamide for tramadol withdrawal.

The constipation effects of imodium shouldnt affect you too badly as your body is used to large amounts of opiates. Loperamide is a very strong opiate, though it doesnt effect your brain receptors, so no addiction, hence why it is available over the counter.

I'm not saying you should try this, or it will work for you, or it even works. All I know is it worked for me, and if this information helps someone else so be it :D

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by Slowandsteady, Apr 01, 2011
Oh I forgot to mention! I took it with tonic water as I hear that helps for RLS, so maybe that played a role. Sorry for the triple post, I dont think there's an edit post function :O

Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Apr 01, 2011
HI EVERYONE!!!!!!!  Thanks for all the responses-

RT- I love birds- they are little delicious babies that can be such good companions right?
KD- Thank you for the inspiration- I know if I hang tight, there will be a beautiful life waiting for me. I can ALMOST smell it, but my nose is so clogged due to this side effect of NON STOP SNEEZING!

It's ODD, but I feel GREAT today!  DAY 8 and I feel just so much better! I have started to taper off clonazepam- I actually took 1/2 yesterday and was FINE,... I notice I need 1/2 dose AFTER i eat- that's really it!

I am telling you RELIGIOUSLY from day one i've taken the 5htp- Valerian- b6, b12, imodium, multivitamin, some tums for calcium and LOTS of powdered probiotics like CULTURELLE they come in the little packets that dissolve in water.

I know I may have a bad day tomorrow or whatever whenever, but I am taking it one day at a time- day 1, 2, 3, 4 were HORRIBLE, day 5 a bit better, day 6 a bit better, yesterday I actually had energy . Yes I have been taking the klonopin, but sparingly- I don't really take them as much as I hold them as a security blanket.

I keep working, keeping myself busy, signed up on a few dating sites - I realized my trams were my best friend b/c my boyfriend WASNT doing his job! SO I met this guy  on OK CUPID, we talked on the phone for HOURS, I slept like a BABY and woke up with out a single dose of anything in my system HAPPY and ready to face the day. I accidentally left my 5htp,b6,b12,klonopin at home today, and other than the SNEEZING and the ITCHY EYES and allergy like symptoms I feel goodddd.

The best advice I have is to get some kind of valium or klonopin, something VERY lose dose to help out when you feel gross. and when you don't need it, D O  NOT TAKE IT!!!! NO MATTER WHAT! today I could use one, but the symptoms are bearable and I'm going to fight through them.

Mentally I think re evaluation is the key- I started having ACTUAL feelings about living life, OMG it feels GREATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT to wake up and not have to worry about those little EVIL FOOTBALLS!!!!!!!

LIFE CAN BE GREAT!, LIFE CAN ALSO SUCK, but why complicate them with pills!?

DAY 8 and going strong- off trams and day 4 off OPIATES in general ( remember I had 5 vics that I spread out to help with the withdrawal as well) next step BYE BYE Klonopin!

LOVE U ALL!!!!- PS- is it normal at day 8 to feel so hopeful! ?

Avatar universal
by kaz47, Apr 01, 2011
Hi everyone - my husband is now 80 days free of tramadol - it seems a lifetime ago we found this forum - thank god we did because we were totally unprepared for the withdrawal effects he experienced while coming off these prescribed drugs which were meant to help his back condition - for those who don't know he was prescribed tramadol following major back surjery 3 years ago - was on a relatively low dosage for the whole of this time. Having come to the conclusion they weren't doing him any good he stopped cold turkey on 11 January (a date which will forever be etched in my memory!) Almost immediately he suffered horrendous withdrawal symptoms including relentless rls. insomnia, flu symptoms, bloated tummy, sore throat, sneezing, nigh sweats, depression, appetite swings etc etc  - basically almost every symptom going - the rls and insomnia were the worst and went on for quite a while. We are now at day 80 and he has his life back - whilst you are in the early staeges it is horrendous but trust me when I say that if you can make it through the early days and weeks you will come out the other side and get control of your life back!

I found this place because  I was desperate for help as to how to support him - we had no previous experience of drug dependancy - my husband did not even realise how much his body had become dependant on this c*** until he stopped taking it - and bearing in mind we are a long way from home and dealing with a totally different medical system didn't know where to start. Here we found compassion and good practical advice.

We are pleased to see so many here finding support and hope - Effintrams - hope is a great thing to have and was the only thing that kept us going at day 8 - after all when Pandora opened the box and let loose all the nasty stuff into the world all that was left in the box was hope wasn't it? lol! A while back I think I said that being free of tramadol (and other such rubbish) doesn't suddenly make everything that was wrong in your life fantastic - what it does do is mean that you are experiencing life like you should - ups and downs and all - just like the rest of humankind who aren't finding 'fake solutions' in the bottom of a pill bottle - life is a rollercoaster in more ways than one - but... what a great journey it can be, even if there are a few bumps in the road along the way!

I am not one of you and I have sometimes asked myself do I have the right to actually write on this forum  - I have just been along for the ride - but perhaps I feel that I am speaking for all the other 'passengers' out there! Aren't we also victims of the havoc tramadol causes? My husband has been the one who has ultimately found the strength to get through this and come out the other side - whatever part I have played has been small in comparison - I cannot express how much love and respect i have for hom - but it is no easy ride for us  'passengers; either - all those husbands and wives, partners, parents, brothers and sisters, sons and daughters and friends who are there through those early days that are so very difficult for all of you - no picnic for us either, but recovery is almost necessarily selfish - too difficult to achieve otherwise. If you can, talk to your nearest and dearest and tell them how you feel and why and ask for their love and patience.  - It is never easy seeing those we love go through this process - some find it harder than others - but 80 days into the journey I can honestly say it is worth the rollercoaster - no pills, life as it should be lived - warts and all!

Ullr - glad you are still hanging in there, our friend in beautiful Norway- (European song contest soon - we are of course voting for the UK!) - stay strong. Steph and Nora and Rainallday - we are thinking of you and wishing you well - Damtram - hope mum is doing well - thinking of you and her and send you the very best thoughts for a full recovery. Madtram - always willing to share a wealth of knowledge and experience - I pray for you and your family and that you are remembering your beloved brother with joy daily. May the sun shine on all of you wherever in this world you are. You all deserve to be free of medication - remember one day at a time and you will come through!

Love and respect as alwaysx

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by DamTram, Apr 01, 2011
Slowandsteady, it sounds like you are doing GREAT!  I'm so glad that this is your last time.  You have so much life to live.  If the Immodium is stopping brain zaps, though, that means that it HAS crossed the blood-brain barrier (because of the high doses).  So, just be careful.  =)

Effin, I'm confused...does this mean that you broke up with boyfriend if you are going to be dating and talking to other dudes?  It definitely sounds as if you've grown out of the relationship, and OkCupid is very good for starting over.  It's where I met Mr. 3-dates!  I've been back there to get to know people after every real-life relationship I've had.  I don't know if you've done the internet-dating thing before, but I was asked to write an article about my experiences this fall.  I would be happy to send!

Kaz, thank you for your beautiful words and wishes.  My mom is well, and has returned to work.  Her pulmonary oncologist said, "See you in 6 months!" So, we're going with that and moving on.  SO glad your DH has his life back.  It's truly an amazing feeling.

MadTram, YOUR SUGGESTION WORKED!  My liver doesn't hurt anymore, AT ALL!  And it hasn't for almost a week!  You are an amazing biochemist, and human for continuing to help us with our various issues.  So much love.

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by madtram, Apr 01, 2011
Kaz, I think we would all agree that your contributions have been very worthwhile, I think you have a talent for counseling & you seem to get what people are going through, which is not an easy thing given the bizarre symptoms that tramadol withdrawal can deliver.

  Thanks so much for your thoughts, it continues to be quite a psychological journey.  I seem to be still in the space where I feel obligated to do so much more to make up for all the things my brother will never get to do but this pressure is causing me to feel more stuck than ever.  Rationally, I'm fully aware that this is a problem & am trying to content myself with baby steps.  I feel extra compassion for all you brave people rebuilding your lives after tramadol.

Sydney, you are definitely not alone with your gut response to withdrawal.  Others have reported this & I think you found the post yourself where particularly bad bloating was experienced.  You have lots of opiate, noradrenaline & serotonin receptors in your gut so while on the tram, you have been simultaneously slowing down your gastric mobility with the opioid agonist & inducing a fight or flight response with the added noradrenaline.  When noradrenaline levels are high, blood is diverted away from digestion to large muscle groups, (to enable you to escape the tyrannasourus).

It is still not know precisely how serotonin effects digestion & appetite but it has been observed that SSRIs can cause increased or decreased appetite in some individuals.

I have cealiac disease & IBS & you could try the remedies I find helpful for the IBS: peppermint oil capsules; donnatab, (antispasmodics); a good probiotic; slippery elm powder & small frequent meals to help revive your digestion. Stay away from the immodium as this could exacerbate the gastric rebound symptoms.  5htp can help with carbohydrate cravings due to its modulating effect on serotonin.

Effin you are doing so well, you are probably out of the woods but even if not completely, bottle the feelings you have now so that you can call on them if you do have another challenging hour or two.

Slow & Steady, glad you are going at it with determination & that the loperamide is helping.  It's so interesting to me to see these biochemical exceptions to the rule.  The loperamide molecule is supposed to only attach to receptors in the gut & the GABA molecule is way to large to cross the blood brain barrier & yet people report nervous system relief from large doses of both.  I am so jealous because neither worked for me.

The tonic water contains quinine which used to be prescribed for RLS before they discovered that a tiny percentage of people have a genetic mutation which makes quinine toxic for them.  Between the tonic & DamTram's tip, you should have the RLS beat, (sorry, couldn't resist the bad pun).

DT, I think we owe it to science to run the experiment on a very select female population.

Ullr, don't know if you have access to a doctor while yours is away & also whether you are already prescribed a BP med, only that many people find the BP med, clonidine very helpful during withdrawal even if they don't have BP issues & some are able to taper off benzos more successfully using clonidine.  It sounds as you are doing fine but I'm not sure that I agree with your doctor that benzo withdrawal depends on the rationale for the prescription.  Certainly people with underlying anxiety disorders may well suffer a return of their symptoms when benzos are discontinued but there is also the physical dependence of the benzo receptors which can result in physical symptoms such as insomnia & heart palpitations if you don't taper off in a controlled manner.  I don't want to scare you, only save you from more withdrawal suffering.

Kdemers, congrats on your 50 something days & here's to your emotional renewal.

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by madtram, Apr 02, 2011
DT so glad you have a happy liver again.

I share your reservations about torturing lab animals but I am interested in nutrigenomics which is the effect that nutrition has on turning genes on & off so at least generally what is being administered is a naturally occurring nutrient.  My first preference is to work at the clinical level where no euthanasia is involved at all but to do this permanently I need to get accepted into a clinical registration program where the entry is at least as competitive as med school.   Hence the need to finish my post-grad work with more than excellent grades instead of moping about quite so much.

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by NoraTorious, Apr 02, 2011
SYDNEY---yes!! I have been bloated like a poison toad. In my 20s (20+ days off Tramadol ) I had to go to the ER because the cramps were so bad in my chest, I was not sure if I was having a heart attack or something serious. So, it sounds like you are right on schedule. I would try some Ginger or fennel, it might help ease the pain. But it sounds like you are on track with withdrawal symptoms.

EFFIN-I met my husband on OK CUPID! We met on OKC in 2004, and we married in 2007. We are one of the many success stories. PM me if you want more info.

Avatar universal
by Sydney0502, Apr 02, 2011
Dam Tram, you are absolutely right with your comment about me with being abnormally "sensitive" to appearance and weight.  I guess this is no surprise my first and most intense additction was anorexia/bullemia.  

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by DamTram, Apr 02, 2011
MadTram, I didn't mean to sound anti-testing at all.  It's a sad, sad necessity, but a necessity it is!  For example, if the research done on rats with Tramadol HAD ACTUALLY BEEN APPLIED TO HUMANS, then their little lives would not have gone in vain.  Alas.  And the research I was doing...I still sort of fail to see the point in some of it.  I get the need to understand the GABA receptors better by discriminating between affects.  I get the need to do the same with the various opioids.  But COCAINE place-preference?  Why?  You are doing GREAT work, and you mope as long as you dam well please!  The future will come, and your success with it.  I promise.  

Sydney, I'm really sorry if what I said came off as a 'comment'.  I just wanted to let you know that I understand what you're going through, and that I hope you get help for the weight-issues that have inevitably been exacerbated by the Tramadol weight-loss, etc.  It sounds like you've already beaten the anorexia/bulimia beasts once before, so I would hate to see this drug and subsequent withdrawal take you back to that place.  I think it was MyFreedom (apologies if this is the wrong credit) who said something about the subs taking away the opportunity for the development of self-love that comes out of the complete Tramadol withdrawal experience.  I hope that you can find this love and appreciation for your body, mind, and soul and accept the changes occurring in your body with pride.  

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by ullr, Apr 02, 2011
Saturday 15.46 norwegian time. The rest of my family left for a trip to the city. I am alone. Its good. Our house is a mess. With a almost 3 years old very active boy, me in my state, an active dog (english setter/border collie), its not  easy to get things done. Before I quitted, I would pop some extra pills and fixed things. Cleaned. Washed clothes. Those days are gone.

I did take my son for some hours in the garden earlier to day: we made a fire and burned some bow wood that never would be a bow. Before I stoped I wouldnt think like that. ehh...
-no, lets wait and see. It might become something, I would think. Now I think more realistic. I can feel that. My work shop i filled up with materials. Trees that I harvested in the forest at night.. Sneeking out with saw and tourch.

****, I am frighten for a future without pills. Its a bit like walking naked around.

Pills or narcotics has been (a part of) my life for almost 11 years. Before my accident (11 years on Tuesday. The same day I have 4 weeks free for Tramadol! I know what I will celebrate... ) I was smoking cannabis on a regulare basis. But never anything else. That was some kind of hippie-principle for me. Never anything made in the chemistry...

Then pain came in to my life, and I was prescripted something that is very simulare to Vicodin (I think?) Paracetamol and codein. And I liked it. If I had gone to a rehab (12 steps bla bla), they would have laught at me and said that I was using my arm for a reason to get high. Maybe.
I am writing. Sitting down in this chair. Headset on, writing. I need music! Not that I havent heard music when I was on Tramadol, Its just that now it gives me something new!. I need strange, rare, odd, emotional, not pathetic, but meeningfull and joyfull music. Thanks for Spotify!

Saturday is soon history and I cant say anything else then that this day has gone well!.
Have been taking only one pill Oxazepam pill. Mabye I didnt need it either?

Just have to say to all you out there that this site, I meen you all,  helps me so much!!

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by NoraTorious, Apr 02, 2011
Ugh I have written a post 3 times, but I lost it each time I tried to post it, so when I am less antsy I will try it again.

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by ullr, Apr 03, 2011
what is happening here?

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by DamTram, Apr 03, 2011
this guy has the flu and an IBS flare-up.  that's what's happenin over here!

Avatar universal
by StephC28, Apr 03, 2011
Hope everyone had a good weekend! I'm so impressed by the newbies on this guys are doing awesomely!!!

Absolutely swamped with papers to grade, but I've been reading diligently. Will post more when I find a few free minutes.

I'm just over 90 days I think...and feeling great. :)

Love to all

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by ullr, Apr 04, 2011
Monday, and I have had a nice weekend!
Yesterday I took nothing else then my vitamins. And felt ok all the day.
Not wonderfull, but ok, and thats good enough for me right now.

Am going to work soon. Hope you all will have a nice day!

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by rt35630, Apr 04, 2011
Monday here too...I am not in a good mood. It isn't tramadol withdrawls. Blah........Sorry. I am keeping up with the posts.

A friend of Joe's husband beat her up Friday in front of their 2 year old. Luckily there were two witnesses. I had them spend the night with us Friday night and got her to call Safeplace. If she enters that program they will help her with a game plan for getting her life on track, help her find a decent job, and get her a free divorce. Plus the location is a secret and the jerk of a husband can't kidnap the child. He would do such a thing just out of meanness.

I told her I would help her once. Not to call us again in the same situation. Joe had quit talking to her for a few years because of that man and only recently reconnected. I think we are done with it. The drama has us totally wrecked. I see why so many people DON'T do things like reach out to others in need. It tears your heart out and you can't MAKE them straighten up.

Anyway, it ruined Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, all of which  were beautiful days. Today is dark and stormy - a Tornado day. Tomorrow back to the office.

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by UhohHereitComes, Apr 04, 2011
Can't fathom my addictions. Hasn't even been a year off Tramgarbage and here I am on day 5 of oxycodone w/d. Shoulder injury started this bout, pre-surgery, surgery and rehab all the while conning the docs. ****. I'm so sick of this cycle.

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by NoraTorious, Apr 04, 2011
Well, the chest cold that has been casually flirting with me is finally going steady. I want drugs. Of course I will act on it. This is the first time I have been this sick, and have not had any pain meds to insulate me. The acheyness, head & chest congestion, completely exhausted is not unlike the first few days of withdrawals. I just don't have so much of that crazed feeling. I'm just too tired for that.

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by NoraTorious, Apr 05, 2011
Uh oh-you can do it! Do not be a slave to the little white pill' and we are all here for you!!

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by UhohHereitComes, Apr 05, 2011
Thanks Nora, I have an MRI reading in a little while for the right knee. Hoping for no more surgery/recovery/rehab so I can get off this [email protected]#t for good. If it isn't one dang thing, it's another. Did manage to quit smoking finally. The squirts are gone, RLS seemed to only last one night this go-round and I slept 12 hours last night. It really blows to go through w/d, try to think about that before you reach for ANY meds. Least it's that way for me, hope you don't have that problem and can "use" responsibly? 50 pills in 3 days isn't.

1354545 tn?1301929313
by UhohHereitComes, Apr 05, 2011
Forgot. I'm so glad this thread carries on and that people find it. I remember reading it from page 1 coming off the Tramacrap. So, thanks again to Emily and all the people that share their stories. It does help.

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by ullr, Apr 06, 2011
Hi all (if someone is out there?..;-)
I am doing better every day! Still ups and downs, but in average: better.

Thanks for all that has comment on me, and given me advices!
Hope everyone is doing well, and thats why there is soo little activity here...

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by kdemers4, Apr 06, 2011
Good Morning all and Ullr....
Having a great two days,
I hope for you all to have more better days than bad and I am keeping you all in my thoughts..

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by UhohHereitComes, Apr 06, 2011
Good morning for sure. Even though it seems nobody is here, it's always good therapy to share, never know who it's going to help down the road. Good news from yesterday, no need for more surgery. It can wait up to ten years. I'll get to it when it hurts too much and be prepared to kick the crap again when it's over. For today, I'm quite relieved and upbeat. Hey Ullr - it appears you make bows? Way, way cool. I hunt with a custom crafted recurve by JK Chastain, I'd love to see some of your work!

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by ullr, Apr 06, 2011
Hi again..
UhohHereitComes: Nice to have a soul friend ; ).
We cant hunt in Norway yet, but we shoot a lot on 3D animals.
I have a hand crafted Dryad bow for traditional shooting.

Here are som pictures of a bow I made som time ago: (scroll a bit down the page for pictures)

And here on a norwegian forum

I have had a litle down today. Feel soo exausted. Just to get off the chair is a big project..

Have a good day ;-)

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by DamTram, Apr 06, 2011
Sorry for the quietness, guys!  As soon as the cold left me, it was IBS/insomnia central and now I've been vomiting all morning (I assume because I was tired of the insomnia and took an ambien, which clearly poisoned me).  I don't know if I can continue to blame Tramadol, but I am dam tired of being sick and tired....I have not had one genuinely healthy day since I started withdrawal!  And if you count being on Tramadol as not having healthy days, then I haven't had a single healthy day in over 8 months!  I was supposed to start a 3-day orientation at the University of Chicago today, but I just keep vomiting so had to tell them I would just be there tomorrow and Friday.  I am so sick of being sick!  I have date 4 tonight, but who knows if I'll even be better enough to enjoy that?  If not, he's going to Colorado and I wouldn't see him for another week.  The ginger root only made me throw up more, and the only thing that has sort of made me less nauseous were Tums.  Does fish oil help nausea?  I haven't even been keeping water down, so I'm scared to take anything.  I hate drugs!

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by NoraTorious, Apr 06, 2011
I am having a problem, and I need to hear some wisdom.

I am 90 days, and yet I am dying for opiates. Not Tramadol for any reason. But oxycodone, perc, vicodin. I just can't deal with the low amounts of sleep. I take an arsenal of stuff for sleep, but it always be to sleep 2-6 hours. I would be happy with benzos, anything. I know this is wrong, but I want them desperately. And I am afraid of what I may do.

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by DamTram, Apr 06, 2011
Congrats on 90 days, Nora!!  How long has this been going on?  I really, really recommend Trazodone.  It saved me from insomnia.  

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by rainallday, Apr 06, 2011
Well Damtram I'm close to finishing the book, the goal was today to quit smoking. Not 100% on it but it needs to happen.
  My timing chain on my car broke sunday, and it turns out it ruined the motor and the car is dead. So I missed 2 days work so far. And I'm stuck with no car.I have to find a car under $700 cause I'm broke as always. VERY VERY tough going to get the car from the stupid shop who demands a $50 checkout fee...i can sell it to the junkyard for $150. But ive had no luck finding anything yet..Not many cars that cheap out there...
    Still tramadol free and no problem thinking about it even with pain...couldnt afford it anyway..
I'm just hangin tough hoping something good will happen, i need a car to work and deliver those pizzas.

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by NoraTorious, Apr 06, 2011
DT-I am on a high doze of trazadone & 3 other meds to at least help me fall asleep. It's the staying asleep that is not happening. Not for long, at least.

Rain-so sorry about your car. You are in my thoughts.

Hope everyone else is fighting hard!!

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by madtram, Apr 06, 2011
DT, I hope the vomiting has passed by now & you are happily out on your date.  It seems a bit extreme to be caused by one ambien, maybe you have developed a stomach flu from your cold virus.  The only OTC I am aware of that may help with nausea is an antihistamine like dramamine or phenergan which wouldn't help you get to work but may help with the sleep.  If you are still unwell, get stuck into the gastrolyte to rebalance those all important electrolytes.

Nora, sorry to hear of your plight, 2 hours is just not enough.  I was the insomnia queen post tramadol & had another bad patch just before Simon died.  If I am ever taken prisoner, all they will have to do is apply the sleep deprivation to get compliance.  I am so much better at handling pain but no sleep & I crumble.  So I succumbed to the benzos which worked a treat until I wanted to get off them.   Benzos rewire your brain, they totally suck to come off & it can take months & months or longer for your normal sleep architecture to be restored.

Wow so even the trazadone is not working.  Maybe you could try mirtazapine, (Remeron), which I was prescribed.  It's highly sedative at tiny doses & was too much for me to the point where I felt comatose for the next 48 hours.  I am super sensitive to meds though.  Everyone who takes it reports sleeping right through, you just have to determine the dose that works for you to avoid too much sedation, (seems to range from 3mgs tp 15mgs).

Leaving aside the benzo withdrawal flashbacks that only the heavy artillery meds relieve, I have found some herbal sleep drops recommended by a friend to be effective.  My problem is always falling asleep rather than staying under but on the few occasions that I was woken in the middle of the night, I was able to take another dose & get back to sleep very quickly.  The sublingual delivery form is a big plus as it avoids the digestive system.  The drops come from & I have not come across this formula anywhere else, although a a good herbalist could probably compound you something similar.

Here's the other non prescription substances that have helped me with benzo withdrawal because they have some sort of GABA agonistic, (promoting) effect & they may take the edge off for you:-

*Glycine powder - 2 teaspoons per day.  It's naturally sweet so can be added to anything if you have a sweet tooth.  I very much don't so need to add it to grapefruit juice to tolerate it.

* Inositol powder - 3 teaspoons 2x per day.  Also sweetish so goes in with the glycine.

* Inosine powder - 1 teaspoon, 2x per day. A little bitter so I put into empty gelatin capsules.

All of these substances are naturally occurring in the human body & none have any reported side effects.   They seem to have prevented the anxiety rebound that is common with benzo withdrawal.  I have only recently added the inosine so can't say whether the mix will do anything for insomnia but it definitely makes for a more comfortable day.

Kdemers, Rain, Randy, Ullr & UhOh, excellent work you guys in the face of life's challenges, (especially automortis, Rain), wishing good things for each of you.

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by ullr, Apr 07, 2011
30 days! Jippi
Feel hoorible. hehe...
Been to work all day.

Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Apr 07, 2011

OMG Hi everyone!- I have been sick as a friggin DOGGGGGG and can TOTALLY relate to I THINK, Don't quote me b/c I have to read through a week of posts to catch up but *DT*? I have been so effin sick since I started withdrawal.

First was the actual 5 days of hell- then I was able to alleviate that with benzos- which today is DAY 7 of  .5- 1mg every day split up in some way to help me cope- I am starting to taper TODAY- I've taken .25 so far, only plan on another .25 and then so on and so on- I don't feel a craving for them AT ALL- I can sleep fine regardless now- like if I take .5 at 4pm and no more that day- I will sleep like a baby. Maybe I just don't like benzos? idk. Ok so anyway I had this HORRIBLE FLU/COLD from last wed til maybe Tues... I started feeling better- today is the first day I can breathe with out sneezing and peeing my pants.

I am STILLLLLLLL Sneezing. STILL- is that common? TODAY IS DAY 14! yes! I actually made it with out ANY opiates for 2 weeks and you know what? ugh- I haven't even had a craving. I think the hell I went through was so not worth it.

I mean don't get me wrong, the diarreah *****- The bloating, the fullness in my... well ... for lack of a better word RECTUM ? lol ( damn near killed em) ok i'm kidding- anyway the WORST symptom of being off any opiate would DEF be the stomach issues. THEY SUCK! I take 1 imodium like every day- should have some good medical ins with in 8 weeks- so hopefully someone can help me cope with the fibro/ibs in a GOOD HEALTHY way.

Started working out- it was EXHAUSTING, but It helped with sleep like NO OTHER, so if anyone out there is at the point where they are ok enough to jump on the treadmill or go for a walk I HIGHLY recommend it.

I'm not a pro at this, if it wasn't for Randy, MT, DT- I would be effin LOST- I STILL take my vitamins every day- it's become a NO THOUGHT, b12, b6, multi, Acidopholous (culturelle), 5htp, Valerian at night ( haven't really needed it, I think NYQUIL works wayyyyyy better)- I really feel they are helping me b/c benzos SHOULD make you tired. Right?
Like I get up in the morning, get ready for work and leave, with out even taking ONE SINGLE THING, not even a vitamin- once I get to work, and am able to eat something small I take my vitamins, and I really wait until I feel WRETCHED to even take the klonopin- so I know it's the vitamins that are giving me the energy and I AM THE REASON I AM DOING IT, ME ME ME! lol

I can't believe I am at day 14, like really I cant. I remember day one- saying I was ready to throw in the towel... YES I had 5 vicodin that I used in the very first few days, but I still felt like **** anyway- and once they were done, they were done too- and it still sucked, so whatever.

Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Apr 07, 2011
OHHHH and OF COURSE Idk why I stopped there!

MT- I am so sorry about your dog- I know how you feel COMPLETELY, 3 days before I stopped trams, I had to give my dog up to the EX- she was my EVERYTHING- I felt to EFFING alone and empty- I know she is still alive, but really what's the diff if I can't see her? she lives with him now, and 5 other dudes- she's their dog now- and I ****** hate it- I know it's hard, but I would get another dog- I know it seems HORRIBLE, SELFISH and as if you're betraying your beloved pet, but trust me, it helps, you will grow a new bond- I am with my parents now, and I don't even have the CHOICE to get another dog- Go out there- Find one- It will help with recovery- I am a HUGE animal person and I have always needed an animal around to help me cope- WE are all here for you, I'm sure I can speak for ALL OF US, b/c you have been my savior- You are one of the reasons I am sober. so Thank you, and FCUKIN Bless u dude!

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by rainallday, Apr 07, 2011
Hey before I post my news I wanna say wow and congrats to MADTRAM for hanging around here and obviously being SO helpful to all these people. You should feel proud and accomplished..That said, why did Samantha Stosur pull out of fed cup for australia!!!!!!!! actually I'm guessing she's injured. i hope she's ok.

Damtram I'm still on page 202 and havent finished the book yet but I couldnt wait any longer:
O.k. my new is that I'm a non-smoker for the last 30 hours 1 day 6 hours..... I picked the hardest possible time in my life and the hardest time of day and said that's it, I'm done. (tears while looking at my cat and her helplessness at the time) Although its only been a day and 6 hours, I had what felt like the "moment of revelation" at about 24 hours when I feel like the heavens accepted me as a non-smoker...I suddenly felt 1000 windows and doors open for me, and i cried again...but joyfully....

So I still have no car and face HUGE difficulty in the near term, but I will do so with a NEW outlook and a NEW LIFE..
No more declarations from me obviously I have plenty to prove to myself and everyone else..But I feel like a 10 ton weight was lifted off of my soul....And If I die tomorrow it's ok, because I'm so friggin lucky to say I'm a non-smoker (crying now again tears of thankfullness), and I honestly think my 20 1/2 years old cat will forgive me, I think she can feel my shame and knows I'll do my best for her he*l or high water... 20 years I failed to not smoke.. Maybe quitting the tramadol in January reminded me how tough we all can be If we just choose to. I sincerely again urge everyone to find any guided hypnosis cd's they can, and use them a.s.a.p. (one has helped me the last 24 hours with non-smoking)
      Have a great evening all.

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by ullr, Apr 08, 2011
Rainallday: So good to here you stoped smoking. I have stoped before, but started "snusing" intead. (tobacco under my lip, not shure what its called in english). Now I do both... In today.

Last night i had a migraine attack. It is something that happens about four to six times a year. It was the worst attack I have ever had. Started as normal with aura, but developed to an extreme situation. Normally I would feel relefe with my migraine medicine (triptans), but not this time. (I am taking st.johannes worth, and it can have crashed) No sleep. Just this insane and suicadal pain in the right side of my head.
So that was my kind of one mounth free for tramadol present... : /
Still a lot of pain even if the attack has stoped. No work for me today.

When I was looking for my migraine med, i found 2x300mg tramadol... throwed them right in the toilett. Have I been an addict?.... I find tablets in closets all over the house.. ;-)...

Hope you all have good enough days. This road shourly takes strange and unexpected turns.

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by DamTram, Apr 08, 2011
Good job, rain!  I knew that book would unbrainwash you.  No need to get to the end.  As he says, when you know.  You are already using different language (non vs ex smoker) and you don't talk about it being a battle any more.  Yay!

Ullr, they call it snus here, too.  I sent rain the book that helped me quit smoking.  It's by Allen Carr and is called the Easyway to Quit Smoking.  It unbrainwashes all of our beliefs about nicotine addiction (and it is an addiction, but without withdrawal).  Myth!  You are encouraged to smoke while reading the book, and by the end you know that you have already become a nonsmoker.  The first few days you still spend reminding your brain that it won't be getting any nicotine, but you don't actually get cravings.  The book is available in tons of languages!

MadTram - I'm so sorry about the benzo withdrawal.  I'm going through a similar horror in trying to get off of the trazodobe, so am going to investigate your remedies.  I got sick from the ambien because I took one, waited an hour, took another, tried to sleep for an hour and couldn' took a third.   I slept until 6am the next morning, when I woke up vomiting.  I'm also pretty sure I had a little seizure after the third.  Needless to say, I flushed the rest down the toilet yesterday.  I took them on Tuesday night so that I could sleep and function on Wednesday, but ended up bed ridden anyway.  I choose sleeplessness.

I just can't seem to get under 50mg of trazodone without getting horribly exhausted and nauseous and RLS painy

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by rainallday, Apr 08, 2011
Ullr Yes it is a Strange road quitting tramadol.!! many unexpected events and turns! You are doing great to throw out any pills you fidn, you are strong!!

Damtram, (I DID finish the book!) yes the brainwashing   is insane, its a sick world out there! I think I wouldve had to read the book twice if not for my cat, and the fact I started playing the hypnosis tape also...I don't always feel like yelling "yippee I'm a non-smoker" lol.....But I do feel the incredible inner power and weight and gravity of the giant task of undoing 20 years mentally in about a day....I'm having so many flashbacks from the late 80's when I was a non-smoker. I feel priviledged and greatful that you sent the book, I doubt I'd have had any chance of waking up enough to end the addiction...It looked much harder than tramadol, and without books like the one you sent, and/or hypnosis, I don't see people I know who smoke even dreaming about quitting anytime soon!
     anyhow Ive taken some very long walks to the store and the post office because i still have no car.I love walking very much, and running even more, but I need a car badly so I can make money!!!!! I am going to get some minimum wage hours at the store 'making' the pizzas as an 'inside' worker while I keep searching for a car. (in other words- reading craigslist) . My sister in Joisey and her hubby the enviromentalist have offered to try to help a little (poss. tiny loan) so i can expand my car search up to 1500 price now..Still not many cars available at that price but hey I have no credit (really worse than you think lol), so I'm used to going "without', because "YIPPEE i'M A NON-SMOKER!" lol lol
     I believe good things will happen, and remain hopeful things will get better.
Thank you again DAMTRAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your the greatest
   Thanks also Randy and MADtram And NORA and Steph and everyone else here for being here through everyones toughest times!!!
    Ok gotta start working on getting a ride to work for this evening, yall have a great night!

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by DamTram, Apr 08, 2011
Yayyyyy for all the good news, rain!!!! I am just so glad I was able to help in some way.  I am sooooo impressed by you and your survivals!

Noooooora, I am moving to la!!  I got in to the phd program at ucla, guys!!!!  Tramadol loses bc it didn't ruin my application after all!!  I am sooo happy to be moving into the sun and doing the research I so much wanted to do!   Thank you guys for all of your past and present kind words and encouragement. :')

MadTram, the health food store only had the inositol...but I took it and am hoping for a good night's sleep!  Thank you again for all of your advice.  I hope you are a having a beautiful and strong day.

Fight on, good men and women!  We are kicking butt and taking names, even when we are tired, sick, and sad!  We have beat the tramabeast!


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by rt35630, Apr 09, 2011
Hey everyone....been reading catch up posts for a while. Nora...are you okay?

I'm okay....busy with getting ready for Easter and Holy Week. Had a concert by the African Children's Choir last night at Westminster.

Still no tramadol! YAY...I have a problem getting to sleep so I keep a couple of valium around for the weekend - especially Saturday night because I need to be up by 6 a.m. on Sunday. I don't go to bed until midnight most nights.

I hurt my back doing some work with my father and brother at the lake house (a tree had blown down) and Mike gave me a couple of lortabs. I came home and cleaned the house! But I can't say it was any kind of real thrill either, which was good. And it kept me awake all night. But I did enjoy the false energy burst.

I'm so scared of getting hooked on anything again I don't think I will ever use stuff like that regularly. I hope nothing happens to me so that I have to.

I'm doing okay....back in a routine and doing things with Joe. It is my mother;s birthday today, 76. She's caught up with Daddy for six months. Big party out at the lake house. Too cold still for any mature person to get in the water, but we have a skidoo now, so who knows.

Love all y'all. Remember, it does get better each day you don't put the tramatrash in your body. I do without it quite well now. And I hadn't had any real opiates until my brother gave me those the day I hurt my back. It wasn't so great a thrill that I've thought much about it since then. But I did feel the need to tell on myself for not turning him down.


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by DamTram, Apr 09, 2011
Good job, Randy!  Good on you for keeping yourself accountable, and for knowing that you should take away from taking them chronically.  60 days for you tomorrow!  Congrats on the milestone!!

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by Beckles73, Apr 09, 2011
Wanted to check in - have not since December - Just graduated 4 months/5days a week/ 6 hours a day outpatient rehab - and I cannot believe how much better I feel! After the physical withdrawals - the mental ones are what last, it helped more than I ever thought - answering the why' glad to see how many people are still kicking the *** of this awful, debilitating, devil pill - keep fighting, everyone here is a true survivor <3

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by Beckles73, Apr 09, 2011
My ticker did not show up for my last post - am very proud of my days clean from Tramadevil - so wanted to share :)

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by DamTram, Apr 10, 2011
Hope everyone is doing ok! =)

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by madtram, Apr 11, 2011
Hi all, just got back from a weekend away for a wedding of the daughter of good friends of ours.  It was very joyous & romantic as Amy has married a saint who has never once lost his temper with her even though they are both very strong opinionated people.  It was great to go to a wedding where one feels such confidence that the marriage will a strong one.

Rain, thanks so much for your kindness & a huge congrats on your non-smoker status.  Celebrate as much as possible, it's so important to give ourselves kudos for achieving big goals & not think we should just get on with the next thing.  I do appreciate your need for wheels but was interested at your implication that making pizzas paid less than delivering them.

As for Sam Stosur, apparently she wants to focus on the French Open & probably feels she needs some clay court practice after being decisively beaten by Elena Vesnina in Virginia.

DT, what great news about your PHD program, I'm so happy for you.

Sorry to hear about the trazodone withdrawal.  I had been lamenting the lack of trazodone here but odds are I would have the same withdrawal issues as I have been supersensitive to each of the 3 psychoactive meds I have taken in my life.  I went on zoloft more than 20 years ago when my first husband became a coke fueled maniac & barely slept for the first week on the drug.  It did keep me sane at the time though & I didn't have any problems just stopping it when I felt better.  Thankfully haven't needed an AD since then, although I didn't appreciate I was actually getting one with the tramageddon.  

There's some merit to trying the alternative rems separately so you will know which is having what effect.  As a scientist you know this but I tend to get so excited about something new that may work, I often add one or more substances on immediately, so my approach as human guinea pig has somewhat less than scientific.  There are no reported or chemically obvious cross reactions between inositol; inosine & glycine as they operate via different pathways, so that's something.  Interestingly, they are now targeting the glycine receptors for pain relief therapy as they are involved with the GABA receptors in pain pathways.

Randy, good job on not going overboard with the lortabs.  I love those African kids, they sing like angels.

Beckles, well done, you too.  206 days is awesome & it's great for others to hear that full recovery is achievable.

Ullr, sorry you have to endure migraine, especially when you should be celebrating your one month.

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by rt35630, Apr 11, 2011
My life has been too full of drama lately. First it was a friend of Joe's who had a grand mal seziure and had to be rushed to the hopspital. Then Joe's friend Kayla got beat up in front of their 2-year old. She's filed charges and legal aid will help with the divorce, but in my opinion she is not behaving responsibly. She's only 22 or 23, and out partying. One of those partys ended up here last night, and she brought some of that damn evil "herbal insence" to the house. I was in my room, and Joe work me up saying Jeremy was having another seziure. I had found out he had smoked some of that s*** before the last one.

I got furious...told them to call 911 and jumped on all of them for letting him do that after what happened the first time, and that we had researched that stuff and it is laced with a chemical that is dangerous - far more so than weed. (K-2 and variants). I asked Joe what he was doing participating and told them to all get out of my house when the ambulance came.

Joe made some food and took it to the hospital. They got out several hours later and should have told the MD's what he had done. This "legal weed" is becoming popular here and they couldn't have gotten in trouble. On top of that, I found out that in the middle of his sezing Jeremy hit one of the nurses arms and they threatened to call the police. Some hospital.

I don't like censoring who our friends are, but I am about to do so, and it won't be pretty. This Kayla is someone Joe stopped talking to two years ago, and I see why. Hope he realized after last night that trouble follows her and we just don't need it.


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by SheLiz, Apr 11, 2011
Hi All

        Great to see you all still going strong.  Just thought I'd check in.  I've been busy lately with living and lots of new activities that I would never have even thought of before let alone taken up.

        I have more energy than I can ever remember and my sleep is much better.  I still have the odd restless night but I am having good 8hr sleeps (with no medicinal help whatsoever) 4-5 nights a week.  The other nights I have about 6hrs.

        I have finally finished the taper off the fluvoxamine (the last in my arsenal of medications) and have just taken my last 1/4 tab and very happily thrown the rest in the bin.  So, I am now off everything and feeling great.  Coming off Tram was by far the worst (one of my neurosurgeons said that coming off my Norspan patches would be worse than coming of Tramadol but it was a breeze in comparison).  IT's all been so worth it as I am better on every level than I have been in who-knows-how-many years.

      ??? A question for MadTram or other old-timers:  I have mentioned this in previous posts and it is still happening.  Every now and then during the day I get a thumping in my head like I can hear my heart beat.  It's only ever 3-4 beats at a time.  It's something that I was never aware of before coming off tram so I'm wondering if its a left-over of some sort????

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by madtram, Apr 11, 2011
Sheliz, is it a rapid beat, like palpitations & are there any common events that precede or accompany the sensation?   You are such a trooper coming off all those meds, most of which had some effect on the serotonin system & I imagine that one or more of them may have some legacy symptoms.

At our age, hormone fluctuations also contribute to vasomotor issues so if the thumping is continuing on a regular basis it may be related to changes in hormonal status.

I had heart palpitations for quite a while but they usually responded to the inositol.

Randy, I can understand not wanting to be around that kind of partying & I hope that Joe can see where you are coming from.

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by ullr, Apr 12, 2011
its been busy days, and I been trying to hang on. How come I feel so empty and exausted? I am so sick of this now. I just seem to be at the same stage all the time. The last week I have felt like I just quitted. Like the withdrawals just hasent kicked inn for real. I got watery eyes, zapps, sneezing, nasal congestion, chills.... I am soo swollen up. My face, my stomack. I hardly recognize my self in the mirror... Soo depressed...

I suspect that it may have something to do with that I have used the depot tablets, and that the tramadol can have been cumulated to extreme amounts in my body. Maybe it will take me longer to freshen up.

Dont use the Oxazepam regulary anymore. Have days I dont take them, and some days just one. I have been on them for four weeks, may I have developed addiction...? I have totally stopped the sleeping pills (Nitrazepam). And I sleep ok at night. Thats good.

So that was some complains from me...
Hope you others are doing better...

1498147 tn?1289012013
by SheLiz, Apr 12, 2011
Hi Madtram

                  The beats are not rapid it is more like a normal heart rate and only lasts a couple of seconds each time.  There is nothing in particular that seems to bring it on and no other symptoms.  My heart feels normal at the time.  I mainly notice it when I am laying down or sitting quietly but that might just be because there are no other distractions then.

599071 tn?1300068702
by madtram, Apr 12, 2011
Hmm, may be an ear related phenomena.  These sorts of sounds can be perceived due to inner ear fluid settling which could happen when you are supine.  Quite a few people have reported tinnitus with withdrawal.  As you can probably tell, I am totally guessing here.

Ullr, what are the depot tablets?  Sounds like you need some antihistamine.  I'm so jealous that you can just quit sleeping tabs & still sleep straight away.

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by rt35630, Apr 12, 2011
OK....I am dredfullly listless and what people are calling "unhappy" and "you never smile" in general. I am in a stressful pre-Easter period at work and having growing pains learning to work with a new boss. But nothing is horrid. I work all day and when I come home I want quiet time and don't feel like sitting in the living room. I prefer computer time in the bedroom.

I can't call myself truly unhappy, but I can't say I am truly happy either. People were happy before I started the tram taper and then quit.

I don't know what to tell anyone - mostly Joe - but he says others are mentioning me not interacting and etc.

Is it time that I need or do I need to go to a psychiatrist. They did not help me before. I keep wondering if this listless isolation when I am at home is part of what everyone means when they say they can't hardly do anything. I love getting outside for exercise when I can, but sitting in the house I hole up in the bedroom. I don't mind Joe being in here with me, but I don't know. We don't have a tv or computer in the living room except Joe has his in there. The tv is in a room by the kitchen we rarely use.

HELP....I am wondering if I am the problem here.


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by ullr, Apr 12, 2011
madtram: The pills that I used to take contained 300 mg tramadol, and was a soo called(?) depot pill, or "one daily"(OD). They have a half life time on 16 hours. I took from 4-10 of them daily for 4 years... (I shame...)
Do I still have tramadol in my body after 35 days? Because of accumulation?

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by madtram, Apr 12, 2011
Tramadol has a metabolite, (breakdown chemical) that is stored in fat cells so yes, it's possible it hasn't quite left the building.

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by NoraTorious, Apr 12, 2011
DT!! UCLA? I am so happy for you ! And anytime you need a break, jump on the train to visit. I am happy to take you through the bowels of this wannabe city!

Randy, I think some head therapy might do you some good. My fear for you is taking medications for granted. You want to stay away from the ideal that every issue & problem can be cured by a pill. A chasm I fall into now and again. CBT might get you going.

I am so proud of everybody's progress here!

I am part of a new pain management program at Kaiser. I start next week. Wish me luck!

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by SheLiz, Apr 12, 2011
Hi Madtram

                 Thanks for your ideas.  I will take more notes on it and maybe mention it next time I'm at the GP.

                 I hope you are finding some peace in your life right now.

Thank you

Avatar universal
by StephC28, Apr 13, 2011
Hi all - I don't have much time, but I wanted to say...

I totally agree with SheLiz when she said after the 100 day mark things rapidly improved. Randy - like you, I had a hard time being my usual upbeat self for a while. Nothing particularly wrong, but nothing particularly right either. In the last week I've had SO much energy and have been happy and..well...just feeling really great! I think I'm just over 100 days....

I know it seems like forever away if you're in the first month. BUT I PROMISE YOU THINGS KEEP GETTING BETTER!!! Hang in. I had days where I really wanted to just take drugs. I couldn't see that I would ever stop feeling listless. But it's finally here. That last corner. I'm really glad I stuck it out!

Everyone is doing so fantastically here.

Ullr - hang in man. You're on the right track. In the early days recovery is really not linear. You'll be up and down. But you'll keep going up if you stay focused and resolved on getting off Trams for good.

DT - beyond proud of you!!! THANK GOD something good happened to a good person! I was being to loose a little faith....

Nora - hope all is well with you! You must be right around 100 days now too, yes? How are you feeling? (I think SheLiz might have said it really changed for her at 110 days...)

Rain - thinking about you. SO IMPRESSED that you quit smoking! You're unbelievable! And with all the car problems and everything. So great. :)

Kaz - hope you and the husband are doing well. I always love reading your posts!

MadTram - thank you, as always, for your knowledge and guidance. You can be proud that you have been such an inspiration - and directly responsible for aiding my recovery (among many others I'm sure). You are wonderful.

Love to everyone

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by NoraTorious, Apr 13, 2011
Thanks for the encouragement, Steph. I am coming up on 100 days, ad I can feel improvements from day to day

. I am still super fatigued and sore, cold feet, and thumpy heart with shaky hands. My decreased mobility and not being able to draw as delicately (due to hand shakes is making me crazy.

What goes on? Rain, I hope you are getting mobile. What a crappy thing to happen.

My dear husband is up for another job, please think good employment thoughts.

Avatar universal
by nikkie1984, Apr 15, 2011
hi, i came across this site by browsing ways to stop takeing tram. im currently takeing tramadols now. and have been for about over a year :( I tried to quit a couple of months ago. but the with drawls were SO BAD i started taking them again :(   I wish i could stop takeing them. But i just caint :( I need help too!

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by SheLiz, Apr 15, 2011
Hi All

          Steph - I'm so happy to hear that you have seen a big difference since the 100 day mark.  I am happy for you, it's so worth the effort isn't it :-)

          Nikkie1984 - you've come to the right place here.  We all found the website by accident and it's the BEST place to be to get off tramadol.  We all know what a horror it is to get off but it is sooooo worth it.   I now feel so much better than I ever did on tramadol and have so much life and natural energy I just don't know what to do with it all.  Hang around this site and it will give you the support and strength to get rid of these horrible pills.

         I've spent 17 years on all kinds of medication and had to take more and more all the time just to combat all the side effects from the other meds.  It was insane.  Everything was such an effort.  Life was too hard.  Now, without any effort I do a 1hr hour walk at least once a week plus lots of other shorter walks, swim laps once a week, do an aqua aerobics class once a week, a yoga class (plus my daily yoga/physio exercises) and  I've recently taken up rowing (got my 3rd training session tomorrow) and belly dancing (I love it!!!).  I'm also socialising more and catching up on lots of things around the house.  My energy levels are amazing, my sleep is much better and it's all totally medication free!!!!!  I'm free and have control of my life back and there is nothing better than that.

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by NoraTorious, Apr 15, 2011
SheLiz,I am so happy for you! That is truly amazing! I only hope I could be as lucky as you.

I am nearing 100 days and feeling so fatigued. I take all my supplements, and still...
I have had some good days, full days rather than an hour here and there. But I still have more days where I am wiped out.

My husband has still not found a job, so I have to limit the times I visit the Dr. I am not sure how much more they could do for me if I did go in.

I am back in that mindset that I am never going to get better. I always fear I will be the exception. While other people snap out of it, I will be the one who is damaged for life. I feel a lot like I did at the 20 day mark.

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by NoraTorious, Apr 15, 2011
Having a better day now. I think the small cup of coffee, all the supplements and hot bath really helped a lot today. I think I just need to keep reminding myself, 'when all else fails, take a hot bath. It's a real cure that I need to take advantage of.

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by SheLiz, Apr 16, 2011
Hi NoraTorious

                       Just saw that you've hit the 100 day mark.  That's great.  I really started to come good about 110 so don't give up hope.  



Avatar universal
by jerryd6075, Apr 16, 2011
        Have been reading many of the post and I am really impressed with some of the recovery stories. I have been on tramadol for going on 4 months for headaches. Being unaware of the problems of tramadol, I knew I couldnt take it forever. I read many of the comments on this forum and had somewhat of an ideal what to expect. I started backing off on the dosage till I was down to 1/4 of a 50 mg. tablet. As expected I am going through all the symptoms,chest pains,restless legs, crawling skin, lathargy,no motivation. The thing I dont understand is I read that tramadol is a SNRI. If Iam not mistaken that is an anti-depressant. I have taken anti depressants before and Iam familiar with the side effects. If this is the case why do people suffer from depression. I can deal with the withdrawal but Iam not sure if I will be able to handle the depression as well. I have been completely off the Tramadol for 2 weeks and feel I am on the downhill side of the withdrawal, I do feel alittle blue but not really clinically depressed. Is this normal or can I expect more depression. How does seratonin and noriphenrin play a part in the withdrawal ? I am new at this withdrawal thing and hope all will be patient with my questions

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by madtram, Apr 16, 2011
Welcome Jerry, good job on the taper, with a little bit of luck, you may find that you have minimal withdrawals once you are off completely.

As with any antidepressant, responses to discontinuing tramadol can vary greatly between individuals.  People who already had underlying depression when they started tramadol may find that it helps them feel better & when they quit, they have to deal with rebound depression while their bodies get used to making their own serotonin and norepinephrine again plus the underlying depression returns.

Others who were not depressed may have only rebound low mood while their nervous system adjusts & then are fine.  Still others may have minimal to no depression.  If you are starting to feel ok already, odds are good that you will stay fine.

Serotonin norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors work by inhibiting the enzyme that would otherwise cause those neurotransmitters to be reabsorbed & broken down, so that more serotonin & norepinephrine remains available to the neural synapses.  One of the effects of this chemical assistance is that the brain's feedback mechanism detects that plenty of serotonin & norepinephrine is available & may slow up the production of more.  When the drug is withdrawn, it can take some time for the brain to realise that supplies have dropped down & production needs to be ramped up again, leading to the rebound depression in some people.

Nora adding my congrats on your 100 days & glad you are finding things that give you relief.  Many of us have had that feeling that we will be the one with permanent damage but I haven't come across anyone who has come back reporting symptoms after 6 months.

You have reminded me of the comforts of immersion in warm water, which is more attractive now that we are experiencing evenings under 68 degrees.   I have never really been a bath person but am having problems getting to sleep again so I am going to start tonight.  My dh is a huge bath fan so I have to compete for tub time.

Sheliz, you are truly a girl wonder getting off all your meds & thriving the way you are.

Avatar universal
by TRAMMAN999, Apr 17, 2011
Desperate !!

I was a regular on this posting about a year ago. Some may remember me!!??         I'm in the UK.

Not going to give history  -  that later. But, I have been off and on Tramadol in a huge way. Currently on 5 to 600mg/day, to my shame !!!

I came off with the aid of "Lofexedine"  -  it was a great help (useful info for people!?) I remained off for 6 months - but all of that was in depression and unfortunatley I put my hand out for Tramadol to help  -  initially, of course, it helped my spirits  but then   ..............................   !!!!!

Now my question for help:
Do you know a website where I can pruchase LOFEXIDINE?   I have tried, but cannot find. I am desperate because having been though withdrawal 3 or 4 times, (without Lofexedine)    I know that Lofexdine helps a lot.

If I can't find LofexIdine, I will have to go for Clonidine, which they say works in a similar way  -  but I don't know if it is as effective.  I think I can get Clonidine fairly easily  -  but if anyone has used a particular website which is reliable and fast delivery I would appreciate the information.

Any information and encouragement would be a life-saver. I am really desperate to get off asap.  -  it is ruining my life and also all the people I love.

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by ullr, Apr 17, 2011
Life is going a bit better up here! A lot of pain i my elbow, and back, and I taper the Oxazepam.
Now I on 15 mg tablet intead of 25.

I accually asked my doctor for it.
And I think that is the first time I have asked him for something weaker... Thats something!

My blood presure is still to high, and he wrote me what he called a green recepi.
Two hours of hard walk in the forest every day.
Just came home from my second... its good.
Spring is really coming here north, and life returns.

Still sneezing. Wet eyes. Tierd. I have started to get crampes again, now around my kidneys...

Avatar universal
by EffinTrams, Apr 17, 2011
Well... I have to admit I'm a bit insulted, I write novels, thanking people, acknowledging others and what happens? I'm ignored... it's ok... Although You all were helping with my recovery... I'll be ok now on my own.  I am having issues with the depression, been taking TONS of probiotics to help with the chronic stomach issues... just in case anyone wanted to know OR if anyone cares.

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by madtram, Apr 17, 2011
Hey effin, we do care, it's just quiet round here.  I am on a bit because I am having a bout of insomnia getting off the Valium I was prescribed when my brother was killed but people tend to post more in the early stages of recovery.

Are the probiotics helping a lot & how much is tons?

Are u taking anything for the depression? I would scroll back & check but this thread is too long to navigate easily now, especially on an iPad. If not, 5htp or st john's wort are worth trying. St john's wort is more likely to act on noradrenalin as well as serotonnin so my be worth trying first if you are lacking energy. If it doesn't suit u then try fhe 5htp.

Tram man, glad u are so determined.  No personal experience but clonidine & lofexidine are structurally very similar & seem to work with approximate effectiveness.  Many on the main board report clonidine to be a great help. Neither are controlled substances so should be procurable.

Ullr, u r doing great, keep up with the green prescription, they really are the best.  I can picture u in the Scandinavian spring as I am a big fan of the Scandinavianp crime writers,especially mankell.

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by rt35630, Apr 18, 2011
Ok all... I've been I said earlier. We are now into Holy Week and Easter...I probably won't post again till after.

New people...this room can be very busy. Right now it is quiet. I wonder if it is because most of us are in the US and it is warmer and we are not inside as much. Most of the people in my "class" are getting much better and we are not writing as much. sorry you are still having ups and downs. Effin...I've not even been keeping up as much. I have been doing better week by week.

I did just have a big fuss with Joe about him feeling lonely and ignored and it starting about the time I started my taper. That was partly the month of December when Christmas and my job get really busy and I am always seeking down time when not working!

I had him read the posts about your brain taking a long time to re adjust even 4-6 months and told him I was feeling better by the week now and he seems more content. I'm having to remember to watch TV shows together before bed and take advaantage of sunny warm days when we can get outside together. That really helps. I am joining his gym, too. That I don't know about.

Went to my brother and neice's birthday party Saturday. We'd had tornado weather on Friday and it was freezing and you could not take the boat or jetski out becaue the wind was high and the water rough. I did catch two huge catfish! Yep..a gay man who enjoys fishing. Always a first!

Y'all all take care of yourselves. You are loved!


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by kdemers4, Apr 18, 2011
Good morning Everyone <3  Been trying to catch up on all the posts.

I would never intentionally ignore you or anyone :) I have been so busy lately... First time on in a week I think.. Memory is shameful...

I am sure everyone's recovery is unique to their own bodies.. In how fast we heal, my first few months of detoxing.  my depression was so HUGE.. Even after 2 months i felt so low..  I felt as if I fell off the biggest building and splatted on the pavement. .. I agree with Madtram with the suggestions ( shes awesome) , but know it takes time for your brain to recover. I figure, I have at least another few months to be back to completely normal.. ( Praying) Since I took tram for 12 yrs.. I am going to beat this..
My heart and thoughts are with you <3

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by NoraTorious, Apr 18, 2011
Effin, I know it can be frustrating to open your heart on here and not get any responses. I often feel like that. I sometimes believe I am a thread killer, as I will write something and there will not be any responses of any sort for some time after. I read your posts, and I do care, I am kind of wrapped up with issues in my home, trying to gather enough money for rent, gently pushing my husband to please get a job,  and dealing with issues with my family. Please don't be discouraged.  

My sleeping has leveled out again. I am falling asleep pretty easily, and waking up only briefly in the night. I am trying to walk more again, and take lots of baths. They really do the trick for me. I start my pain management program today. It goes for 6 weeks, and hopefully it will work for me. Most pain management did either or both of these things: prescribed me more (evil) drugs, or gave me a sheet of paper with instructions for excersise. Something I could do on my own and save myself a 20 dollar copay!

Last night we went to my folk's house for dinner. I love my parents very much and they are always very good and generous to myself and my husband. My Mom is a tremendous cook. There was plent of food, even enough to take home, and we had a good time. But my parents bicker a lot. We are also a very loud voice family. There is a lot of yelling and voice raising that went on in our household growing up. My husband's family is the complete opposite; low voices, and they really don't talk much- I have been at his Mom's house where we worked on a puzzle and never said a word to one another for hours. Since I met and married my husband we have made our house into a no yelling zone. That said, being at my parents house can be a rather stressful place for me. But once we started eating, and all the food was served, it was excellent. And it was great to taste my Mom's fantastic cooking.

I went to the movies this weekend! I have not been to the movie theater for over a year! I was too afraid to leave the house before. We saw "Hanna". It was a fantastic film. A little violent so, keep that in mind.

Randy, I hope things are better for you and I hope everyone in the south is safe from the storms there. Madtram, SheLiz, thanks for your words of comfort and encouragement. I am glad, so glad to see the progress made by all of you.

Please take care, my love to all. Please keep fighting.

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by rt35630, Apr 19, 2011
We had a great day yesterday. The bookkeeper needed to work all day so I stayed away from the office. Joe went to the Service of Noonday by himself - I was proud of him for that.

We went walking. The recent storms have filled the river reservoirs to overflowing and the dams all have the spillways full open. The roar is pretty awesome.

Then we came home and I mowed most of our huge yard. Joe swapped out the guest bedroom to a room on the other end of the house because my clothes are in the real second bedroom and it is hard for me to get ready if we have company.

We had a hard time in the spring last year wondering if we could stay together over the long haul. His family divorces when it gets tough (his dad and mom both have had three marriages. His dad is single, his mother is in the midst of trying to save hers. His sister divorced her husband after four years.) My family tends to stick things out unless they are really serious.

I have tried to explain to Joe that it will take up to ten years for us to get to the point where we don't wonder if we'd be better off alone or with someone else at times. I remember weighing the pros and cons with my first partner for well over five years, and we had a committment ceremony to celebrate 15 years, then he died during our 18th year. There are just times in any relationship when you drift apart, drugs or no, and you work through them and come out stronger. People who divorce at the drop of a hat never get to experience what a truly strong relationship is like and the security it offers.

I told Joe I would see my doctor on May 1st, but I honestly think a lot of the time when he thinks I am purposefully isolating is just me doing something out of habbit and nothing better to do. Not having money to get out of the house to go out to eat or a movie, or even gas to go out to a favorite hiking place is a big problem. I'm thinking of going to work for a local music school and teaching beginning piano (TORTURE). But it pays $20/hr. I don't have that much time to committ so we will see if they want to bother.

I do think about everyone. But I have my life to get on with...and staying glued to the computer when it is beautiful outside during the day, and when I can sleep at night is just not happening right now. But I hope you all know how thankful I am for this forum and I won't dissapear. If anyone needs me, PM me so I will know I need to check in because of the reminder email I will get on my private email. I will be close by.


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by NoraTorious, Apr 20, 2011
I feel like I am getting closer to the end of this Tramadol recovery. I am sleeping much better, and feel much mire upbeat and cheerful. Things are not getting to me the way they used to.

I know I still have some ways to go, 100 days feel like forever, and yet it went so fast!

I had my assessment with the pain management program I got in. The Dr was in  agreement with me that more meds were not the answer and alternative medicine & exercise are.

Husband does not have a job. I see him getting more and more down, and I wish there was something more I could do than little pep talks and emails. I know I would not last a day with even a part time job.

I just worry about him. I love him, but I can only be strong for both of us a finite amount of time.

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by rainallday, Apr 21, 2011
Nora, get your hubby to apply for and do pizza delivery.
He'll get hired right  away! I just added hours to my schedule to help with new bills, like the $1000 I borrowed to buy my new car! 1993 Olds delta 88 ! Nice big 6 cylinder boat! Delivering pizza was never easier than in this land yacht! No more riding around on a kids bicycle!! (what a memory)
  BIG shout out to all the warriors that were here in January!!!!!!!!!! seems like years ago!!! sooo cold!!!
      Yesterday was 2 weeks mark as NON- smoker...Now THATS what I'm talkin bout! I went and hit tennis balls against a wall for a 1/2 hour...I didnt dream i could be this sore from that!! I can hardly bend or move lol. It's all good all in good time I say. My big 4 goals for the year still unfolding successfully. 2 down, 2 to go.(actually the last 2 have nothing to do with drugs or meds) I'm already starting to think about new goals also, like running a 10k race again by next year, and doing some road biking longer distances......:)
  Again I implore folks here to get help through guided hypnosis or guided self-hypnosis. I would be happy to send mp3's on cd's to help out someone....! Just use the P.M. feature or whatever...Important thing is to BE WELL and enjoy life again! MY FREE advice lol is find help anyway you can, prayer, meditation, supplements, hypnosis, etc etc.

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by NoraTorious, Apr 22, 2011
I will definitely let my husband know. He has an interview at an online collective at balboa park Tuesday to do some audio curating & archiving. It would pay less than a computer developing job, but it is VERY close to home (a short bike ride, bus ride or walk) and he would be doing something he loves and will be happy. He could still take up sone contracting jobs.

I don't want to give the impression that I am ungrateful or rude. That being said, I prefer if we don't use the term 'hubby' when referring to my husband. Dh is alright, but 'Hubby' is a term that creeps me out much like nails on a blackboard. You can refer to him as husband, dh, Mr. NoraTorious, etc. Just please, please, no more Hubby! Thank you.

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