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Savas Comes Out Of The Closet

Oct 27, 2008 - 67 comments

Coming Out Of The Closet


I’ve always considered myself an Old School Republican.

I grew up during the Carter/ Reagan years. I have fond memories of those times. I remember when I first joined the Reagan Youth Group and we plotted into the wee hours of the morning to overthrow the evil powers that were the Liberal Democrats.

But, as often happens in life, people change.  
They grow apart and the love goes out of a relationship. Divorces happen, custody suits ensue. We do our best to adapt to our changing psyches and values, and hope we can live with what we’ve become.

It has been said to me a number of times over the past two years that many of the things I say are suspiciously…well…Democratic in view point.

I’ve argued and fought with those who expressed this evaluation of what I say.
I point out that just because I’m an advent follower of Jeffersonian Policy (Separation of Church and State, a strong Constitution that represents ALL Americans)… this doesn’t make me a Liberal Democrat!

But lately I’ve begun to wonder.

I find myself looking back on the Jimmy Carter days, and wondering if he really wasn’t such a bad President.
I now think fondly of Bill Clinton (I believe it’s every President’s right to have sex at least once in the Oval Office. It’s like the “Mile High Club”. Who wouldn’t want to be a member???).

So I’ve begun to wonder;

Perhaps it’s true.

Perhaps I really have become a Democrat.

Perhaps I am… (Deep breath)…

A Liberal Democrat.

Personally, I think that’s taking it too far.
At most, I’m likely a Conservative Democrat, although I could just be fooling myself.
After all, conservative Democrat doesn’t sound as bad as Liberal Democrat, does it?

So, I’ve decided to Come Out Of The Closet.

I Am A Democrat.

There. That didn’t hurt TOO much.

I won’t say it felt good, but I managed to say it without wincing to terribly.
I’m still here. God hasn’t struck me down with a fiery thunderbolt.
Well, I’m off to a good start.

I’m still not sure about this whole “Coming out of the closet and being a Democrat” thing, though.
After all, I’m not a young kid. It’s much easier to “Come Out Of The Closet” when you’re say, 19 or 20.

So I think I’m going to do some experimentation, just to be sure.
After all, I want to be sure I really am a Democrat before I tell my parents. It would be embarrassing if I made such a shocking announcement at the dinner table, giving my poor mum a heart attack, causing my father to disown me… if it turned out I was just succumbing to peer pressure and following a fad.

But I’m not really sure how to BE a Democrat, let alone a LIBERAL Democrat.

I understand there’s Vegan-Tofu involved (which I hate), and acting like a member of the intelligentsia (which I can cope with)… but there are certain issues I’m just not clear on.

For example;
I’m told that Lesbian Liberal Democrats all wear Birkenstocks.  But what do the men wear? Do they wear Birkenstocks as well? Are they still in fashion with the Liberal Democrat crowd? Are they comfortable? Can I carry them off stylistically?!?!

These are the kind of questions that are keeping me awake at night.

So I’m appealing to my beloved friends and readers;

Help teach me what it means to be a Democrat.
How do I dress? What do I wear? What’s considered the appropriate wine that goes with
light-intelligentsia dinner conversation?

Please post your suggestions for my Democratic Experimentation below in the comments section and I’ll get back to you and let you know how they work out for me.

Your help in my Coming Out of The Closet is appreciated.


Comments
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Avatar universal
by cowgirlnerd, Oct 27, 2008
OMG - that is PRICELESS - don't worry - we love you just the way you are - Birk's or not - we accept you.  Welcome to the "family".   LOL    

306867 tn?1299253309
by allaboutmary, Oct 27, 2008
OH how I've missed your posts !  LMAO  
  
How to be a good Democrat.........It's not so much which wine you choose to drink, it's more that you make sure everyone gets a taste of the wine.
It's about seeing the whole world and not just your own little world.

They reported on a study the other night on the news.  They found that most Republicans tend to be happier than Democrat's.  They said that Democrat's seem to worry more. Democrat's seemed to be more concerned about the well being of friends, neighbors and the state of the country.  Republicans not so much.
So welcome to the world of constant worry. lol  
GO OBAMA !

213044 tn?1236531060
by AR-10, Oct 27, 2008
Well, here's a good test.

Just ask yourself "self...would you vote for a man who is a socialist? Would you make a man president of the United States if you knew he was a friend of our enemy? Would you vote for "hope and change" without the slightest idea of what that means?"

You know...self-examination. If you could vote for a liar who is actively encouraging voter fraud and desires to weaken the Constitution, a man who has already intimidated the press and intends to limit free speach, then you JUST MIGHT be a Democrat.

Or not.
A lot of Democrats have seen Obama for what he is and will not vote for him.

So...it's a little hard to say.
How do you feel about gun control?

If you feel we all should have the right to go hunting, you're probably a conservative liberal.

If you feel like nobody is responsible enough to own a pistol, because they will shoot someone, and you want to take away everyone's guns, except your's of course, then you may be a liberal Democrat.

If you think voting against Obama is racist, you may be insane, which would put you in the "Extreme Leftist Democratic Underground" catagory.

It's hard to say. There are so many flavors of Democrats.

How do you feel about "carbon footprint"?

306867 tn?1299253309
by allaboutmary, Oct 27, 2008
LOL  You just described Bush/Cheney.  No other president has done more to weaken our Constitution than Bush.  Bush has grown our government and is now buying (bail out) into our banks....socialism. Ha  Friend to our enemies.......who were the only people allowed to fly out on 9/11......Bush's buddies the Bin Ladin's.
Gun control......gee Obama just thinks these street kids shouldn't have AK-47's. Bad, Bad Obama.
But I see you have all the right wings talking points down.  Good for you.

213044 tn?1236531060
by AR-10, Oct 27, 2008
And I see you have all the "Blind, uninformed Liberal" talking points down, so we both know the ground we stand on.

But that's not the quest here.
We're trying to see what flavor of Socialist, er, Democrat Savas is, if any.
I'm waiting for more imput on the carbon footprint question.

For what it's worth, Savas, I've always pictured you in Birkenstocks. They look good on you.

228686 tn?1211558307
by Savas, Oct 27, 2008
Hmmm... these are serious issues to think about. I was just worried about appearance, but apparently their is more to being a democrat than I thought.

I have to carefully evaluate issues and my beliefs in them?

Mien Got, what insanity!

Okay, lets see...

Well, I do worry about what goes on in society, but I find I still have a strong selfish "How will this affect me?" viewpoint. For example; I want everyone to have a "taste of the wine" and the good life... but that's because if everyone is happy and prosperous then it puts me in a better position to make a buck off of them!

That doesn't sound like a very liberal sentiment, does it?

I actually don't really believe in Gun Control, but its more because i think it's ineffective and impractical. It puts Guns in the hands of criminals only. I believe every good citizen has the right to defend themselves (although I suppose we should limit access to heavy-military firepower. Anything that requires reading an instruction manual is best left in the hands of experts).

I also believe access to guns is an excellent way of clearing the gene pool of those lacking in Darwinian survivability. If you're stupid enough to shoot yourself or your family, or unlucky enough to get shot... then that's natural selection at its finest.

As to hunting; I've already said we should even the playing field and provide forest creatures with appropriate armaments/defenses to make it more challenging. At the very least, take the orange jackets away from the hunters! A good hunter shouldn't need day-glow colors to keep from getting shot.

I don't think not voting for Obama makes you racist. I do think voting for McCain/Palin brings your grasp on reality into question, though.  

As to carbon footprint... considering humans inhabit the earth like roaches, it would be a good idea to make us more responsible about how we affect our planet.

Or, we should release a super virus that wipes out 90% of the human populace. Either one would do a good job of protecting this planet from humanity's selfishness.

You'll notice that a lot of my political discussions tend to end with my saying that wiping out a good portion of humanity would do a lot of good for everyone (everyone left alive that is). I think it's not a bad idea but I haven't figured out a good way to present the idea to the people should I ever run for office. :->


306867 tn?1299253309
by allaboutmary, Oct 27, 2008
Savas.......When you run for office........if I vote for you .....can I be one of the ones left alive. lol

228686 tn?1211558307
by Savas, Oct 27, 2008
Ah, I forgot about socialism. Hmm... my first instinct is to say; "Shoot anyone who doesn't make over $75,000 dollars a year!!"...but I know, I know, that isn't practical.


I believe that certain programs would be more effective economically if they were "socialist" in nature (like health care, for example).

But that has less to do with me liking socialism and more to do with combating what has become a very inefficient system.
If we could have a health care system that charged reasonable rates for care and provided "honest medical service" ie; companies didn't lie about the effectiveness of drugs or use them to get "the masses" addicted to their useless product to generate a guaranteed consumer base, then I'd be happy enough.

But there's about as much chance of that happening as there is of Satan investing in air conditioning for condo's in hell.

So I see ripping managed care out of the hands of the elite few and creating a national health care system as the only viable short term option.

I do have a problem with an EXCESS of wealth. As I pointed out, wealth on a level of say, Bill Gates wealth serves no practical purpose for anyone, including Bill Gates. How many small countries does one need to be able to buy before they're wealthy enough? That's the kind of wealth I see a need to re-distribute more effectively.

306867 tn?1299253309
by allaboutmary, Oct 27, 2008
Ya need to get that "POST" button fixed first. lol

306867 tn?1299253309
by allaboutmary, Oct 27, 2008
I guess I'm going insane because now there's only one.  I swear there was 4 identical posts. lol  

228686 tn?1211558307
by Savas, Oct 27, 2008
Yes, the bloody screen froze and that was the result.

And as I pointed out to you in a note;

Yes Mary, you can join me in biological weapons safe bunker with the rest of the "Friends of savas" voter block.

Nepotism! you see, the system DOES work!!!

Whoops, my wife just got home. Now she's going to start scolding me for being what she refers to as a "Strange Democrat". I think she wishes she could take me in and have my "Democratic gene"  adjusted to a more appropriate level. :->

611067 tn?1458595083
by HelpinUtah, Oct 27, 2008
So, if someone is able to create something in a capitalist system that works for people and that person becomes wealthy because of it - their wealth should be distributed?  So, that would mean the person who didn't work so hard to make it would get something out of that other person's wealth?  You see, that's something I absolutely disagree with.  I live in a country that I have a choice to be wealthy or to be lower middle class, upper middle class, etc.  It's all about the choices we make as individuals.  So, someone like Bill Gates would HAVE to share his wealth!  NOT!!!  That is NOT what America stands for.  Besides, Bill Gates is a very charitable person and does share his wealth because he chooses too - not because he is forced to do so.  This is my problem with Obama's plan to "spread the wealth."  No thank you!!!  That's where I don't care if someone has EXCESS of wealth if they have earned it the fair and American way.  He started from nothing and grew an empire.  So, he should be punished and forced to share his hard work with the rest of us who haven't worked as hard.  WOW!!  I will never agree with that.  Of course, that's my fundamental right as an American.  And, I'm not wealthy - I'm actually lower-middle class.  I just believe in we get what we work for!  We get what we plan for!  We get what we put into it!  Sometimes, life is not fair and we might have a run of bad luck, but at least we're free!

Avatar universal
by 122 Tactical Fighter Group, Oct 27, 2008
Savas -

I really needed this. Been restricting my input to Bill OReilly and such. But spending many of my recent hours in a hospital full of republicans is quite a study. I have not got the foggiest idea where I land in the general scheme of things. I think I better ask if I may come with mary and crew. I promise that I wont shoot myself and may well be an asset, even.

Quite refreshing to get your analysis of being a democratic leaner. And you express it as only you do seem to. Should be even more interesting as we actually vote and all that stuff...........

611067 tn?1458595083
by HelpinUtah, Oct 27, 2008
Savas,

Sorry didn't mean to steal from your lighthearted thread and your thoughts.  I'm sorry - I just get passionate about "spreading the wealth."  Please forgive me!  I am actually intrigued by your thoughts otherwise!  

Have a great day!

213044 tn?1236531060
by AR-10, Oct 27, 2008
LOL!!

Well, Savas, except for the "shoot anyone who doesn't make $75,00", and your desire to relieve Bill Gates of a large portion of what he earned just because "he doesn't need it", there are quite a few things we agree on.

I say, arm the deer and the elk. Make hunting a little more exciting.
They can carry the same weapon I bring. Heck, they can have RPGs!

Reducing the world's population by 80% or 90% wouldn't bother me, but I'd like to be in the bunker too, please. Actually, I have the bunker all set up. A simple phone call would be curtious and much appreciated. :o)

All that said, I could not vote for Obama under any conditions.

Bill Ayers, Acorn, The Annenberg Foundation, the fact that he blames President Bush for the economy when he and his Democratic buddies voted again and again to create the housing/lending crisis, the foreign money that provided his education, bought his house, and is funding his campaign, the fact that he won't provide proof of U.S. citizenship...these are things I cannot ignore.

His voting record is all the reason I need, regardless of all the things I mentioned above.

To add a little perspective to my views, I have recently become part of the downtrodden. I live below the poverty level. I am disabled at the moment, and living off the Government Teat, as I like to call it. That would be your tax money. I haven't made enough to pay taxes for a few years now. (that $32,000 debt that every man, woman, and child owes the government to cover the national debt? Well, you may have to pay my portion)

I don't want any of Bill Gates' money. All I want is access to the social Security I paid in. I don't consider it a right of mine to be supported by the government for the rest of my life just because I smoked dope instead of going to college and now I am having a finacial problem.

I think Bill and I agree that his money is HIS money. If HE wants to send me $500,000 as a gift, that would be AWESOME! I could live the rest of my life worry free (money-wise) with that sort of gift.

The thought of the government taking it from him because "he has more than he needs" is a bit repugnant.    

228686 tn?1211558307
by Savas, Oct 27, 2008
Eagle, you are welcome in the Bunker with the rest of us. I'll even put in a good word with the arms manufacturers to be sure you have a ready supply of Personal-Use Patriot Missiles for opening beer bottles from across the room. ;->
------
We already have a way to distribute wealth. It's called taxes (yes, I know you're aware of that). What I'd like to see is a fair tax that reflects what is neccessary towards cost of living.

I recently pointed out that a 5% tax on a person earning $30,000 dollars a year is actually grossly unfair compared to a 25% tax on a person earning over $300,000 dollars a year (for the $30,000 dollar earner).

Consider a person can't survive on $30,000 dollars a year in most parts of this country, taking away $1,500 dollars a year is just insult to injury. Take away 25% of $300,000 dollars and what do you have? $225,000 dollars.
Which is more than enough to live on and re-invest your capital for further economic growth (considering a good accountant can eliminate about 10% of that 25% through creative tax work, you'd even have more. I know from experience).

Of course, we could do something totally silly like...say... pay a fair wage to people in lower to mid-level income jobs instead of taking advantage of the economic crisis and rampant unemployment to get workers at near-slave wage earnings.

That would eliminate the need for skewed tax. But, if we did that, than all those billionaires and politicians couldn't collect their $1,000,000 plus yearly salaries and "Golden  Parachute" benefits packages. So I doubt it would happen.

And if the "fair and American Way" consists of, say, stealing the land from the indigenous population and turning a profit by selling them diseased blankets that further wipes out their families... well, then I think we need to rethink what is "fair" and American".

I'm not asking to strip Bill Gates of his wealth.

I am asking that we institute regulation that prevents a company like his from using strong arms tactics like it did in the 90's to block other manufacturers from gaining a foothold in the market and forcing his shoddy products on the American People (which they were, at the time).

I see absolutely nothing wrong with such regulation that would GIVE an American a chance to actually start a small business and through hard work and diligence build it into something great.

213044 tn?1236531060
by AR-10, Oct 27, 2008
If you want to talk fair taxes, let's talk about a sales tax. You can even make it a sliding scale sales tax. Throw income tax (and the IRS) in the trash. You buy something, you pay a tax on it.

Make things fair for homeless people (I'm looking ahead. LOL!!). No tax on food. No tax on income. You spend money, you pay a tax. You buy a million dollar yacht, you pay a higher percentage of tax than if you buy a lawn mower. (Got to do something to assuage my Class Envy.)

From the sound of it, you don't want to redistribute the wealth of all who are fortunate. You want to pick and choose those who deserve their success.

Bill Gates = BAD!
Rush Limbaugh = GOOD!
(Am I getting this right?)

Barack Hussein Obama = muslim socialist wanna-be dictator.
  

Now...back to footwear. If you're worried about your carbon footprint, maybe Birkenstocks are not the best thing. Old rags dug out of the trash and wrapped around your feet would be more eco-friendly.

They're not too bad once you learn how to wind the rag properly and tuck the end in securely.


187666 tn?1331176945
by ireneo, Oct 27, 2008
Oh dear - Oregon is such a Democratic state and no way will they ever pass a sales tax law. To them sales tax is evil. I haven't figured out why. I think it's fairly fair. If you have the money to spend then you have money to spare for the tax.

After living in Oregon for years now I find myself in your position, leaning to the left a little. I can't blame it on my age and vertigo. I think I'm overcome by all the clean air and tofu and organic foods here. I'm taking care of the native wildlife, looking at sustainability (took me years to figure out what that meant) and I've even voted for a few Democrats on my ballot.

As for carbon footprint: funny story. A woman called our center saying she had an injured animal. She wanted to know if we could help it. Sure, put it in a box and bring it on up. Oh no, she said. She was worried about her carbon footprint. She wanted us to come get it. Huh? Just because we fix animals, does that cancel out our own carbon footprints?

611067 tn?1458595083
by HelpinUtah, Oct 27, 2008
We have a sales tax on everything in Utah - food, clothing, everything!  We also have to pay an assessor's tax on your vehicle each year at registration.  It goes according to the value of the property.  I think that's fair and our roads are pretty darn nice because of it!  Sales tax is actually a much better way!!!  :)

Avatar universal
by Mr Liver, Oct 27, 2008
Ahhh......Carter and the good ol' days. I remember them well. Unemployment at 8%, interest rates at 21%, and inflation of 13.5%. As if that wasn't bad enough the highest tax brackets were raised to an unbelievable 70% ! That's not a formula for growth and Carter proved it. Obama wants to build the economy from the 'bottom up", not the 'top down'. I find this to be contradictory to my own personal life experience as evidenced by the fact that I have never been given a job by a poor man.

Let's not forget Carter and our hostages in Iran. The terrorists held them for the last 440 days or so of Carter's term. They were released the day Reagan was sworn in

You know what happens when you start beating up on those who have attained wealth through hard work as over 90% of the 'wealthy' have done ? They stop showing up at the table. They move their wealth offshore. They move their plants, factories, and businesses to more friendly climes. If you think jobs are outsourced now, just keep up punishing Americans for their success. The Bush tax cuts reduced income taxes an avg of 25% for a middle income family. The wealthy received a 3% tax cut. How Democrats can characterize that as "tax cuts only for the wealthiest of Americans" is beyond me.



Avatar universal
by 122 Tactical Fighter Group, Oct 27, 2008
Savas - Well - I am still at the hospital so I cannot take full advantage of this neat little talking points post ....... but if ya ever need low footprint footwear, I still got a pair of HoChiMinhs you can have...........even have some tread left on them.....

eagle

Avatar universal
by knightrider, Oct 27, 2008
Just remember all these promises which both canadates are making.
Both are so full of it,their eyes are turning brown.They can't do any-
thing w/o congress OK.

460185 tn?1326081372
by lonewolf07, Oct 27, 2008
Savas - being a Democrat isn't so bad.  I'm a flaming pinko socialist who believes in the theory of communism, as written by Karl Marx (not Groucho or Harpo).

Have you heard the saying, "A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged"?

I enjoyed your post and the responses.  Now I'm going to admire my picture of Kruschev lying on a bearskin rug  = )



599170 tn?1300977493
by Cherie762, Oct 27, 2008
You really lifted my spirits with that post, I  am not registered as democrat or republican, my thoughts and view tend to be democratic, I vote for whose the best man. I have always voted demo, i n  Presidental, but for govenor, mayor school board etc, i mix it up I read and study before i  vote and I have voted republican on these levels, at times


I laughed out loud about the oval office sex thing that was priceless.!!!!!!!

228686 tn?1211558307
by Savas, Oct 27, 2008
I used Bill Gates as an example because i simply don't like him. You recall the scene in the South Park Movie where the general puts a bullet in his head for making Windows 98? I can totally sympathize with that action. :->

But seriously; I haven't worked out the logistics of it, frankly, because no one has asked me to do so (...and, offered to pay me for my time). When that happens, i'll jump right on it.

For now, I'll do a crude summation by saying that if a company reaches "Mega Corporation" Status; they're fair game for a decently heavy taxing. Considering many of these companies have been getting HUGE tax breaks to stay in this country... it would be true justice.

Of course, then they'd probably relocate out of the country if we did a fair tax on them and we'd be screwed in a different way(as Mr. Liver points out).

(You know what? Screw 'em. Screw the big corporations with their money and power. Kick 'em out of the country. We're Americans, right? Give us a fair market with decent regulation and we can work our way back out of poverty. We're still rich in terms of natural resources, right? We should do the equivalent of a Saxon raid on the bums and seize all their assets! Viva la revolution!!!)

You see? Nothing is simple anymore. *sigh*. Whatever happened to good ol' Eminent Domain? These corporations do have us by the cojones because they've tied our economic lifeblood into their own survival. Why do you think we just gave 700 Billion in a bailout to AIG? A company we should have let go under. 700 Billion that I will bet anyone $100 dollars the tax payers will NEVER see again.

I could get into your sales tax concept. And don't get me started on the IRS and the federal banking system. Jeffersonians are anti-federal banks which tends to mean anti-IRS. Hey, we've got an 8 1/4 sales tax here in NYS, after all.

And I Have worn rags on my feet and they can be MOST comfortable!! (Funny story - went camping in my New Balance Cross Countries and decided to do some rock climbing...tell you another time. But Rags and garbage bags make for stylin' fashion wear!!! :)  )
-------
Eagle, I'd love a pair of Ho Chi Minh's. I could sneak up on those rascally republicans and give them some proper yellow terror, North Vietnamese style. Besides, I hear they're comfortable as hell.

Lonewolf, we should get your picture of Kruschev and my portrait of Karl Marx together and have a beatnik poetry reading contest.

Shoot, did I say Karl Marx?!?!?!

I meant...ummm...errr...

Karl Rove!!! Yes, That's right!!! No Communists here!!!!


460185 tn?1326081372
by lonewolf07, Oct 27, 2008
You'll love the picture of picture of Kruschev on his bearskin rug.  Yes, you did say Karl Marx  lol  No Commies in here and no flaming pinkos either.  What are Ho Chi Minh's?  Black pajamas?



Avatar universal
by sterling_silver, Oct 28, 2008
Fact check~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carter did not raise the highest tax rate to 70%. It was that way since the great depression.
Bush lowered middle class income tax by 25%? No clue where you got that information from. Do you pay taxes?
90% of billionaires worked hard for their money? That's nonsense.


The Annenberg's are Republicans. The Annenberg foundation appointed Obama to the board. There were also 4 Presidents from major Universities on that board. No one want's to take your guns. I think you might be pissed, because after 8 years of Bush, you can't afford bullets.

When average Joe Republican gets out of bed in the morning and makes his coffee, he has quality water because some liberal fought for quality water standards.When he takes his medication with the coffee, he knows his meds are safe because some liberal fought to assure they are safe and work as they are supposed to.He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs . Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry. And on and on and on.
I love how all republicans hate any safety net programs the Democrats fight for, but when they need help, they are first on line for the benifits..........................

306867 tn?1299253309
by allaboutmary, Oct 28, 2008
Did anyone hear McCain the other day, (and it's not the first time he's said it)............Obama wants to make sure nuclear plants are safe, blah, blah, blah .   Bad, Bad Obama. lol   Like Obama is such an idiot wanting to make sure we can dispose of nuclear waste safely. I just can't believe McCain said this.  I think all nuclear plants should be built on his property.

Avatar universal
by lovepat906, Oct 28, 2008
I want in the bunker... pretty please?

By the by- if you study the stats- wealth has been spread in the last  years- like a thermometer: straight up.
Maybe that's why the voters are so hot for a real change? Your comrade, lovepat

PS- Lazy liberals like to stay in their jammies all day.

228686 tn?1211558307
by Savas, Oct 28, 2008
I've taken a break from the whole election-media frenzy. The last thing I saw was a classic example of Fox News biased reporting (for republicans).

the reporter was in a diner in Virginia and he asked;

"Who here is voting for McCain?"

One elderly man started to raise his hand and his wife Slapped his arm back down.

Then the reporter asks "Who's voting for Obama?"

EVERYONE raised thier hand.

The reporter then proceeded to say;

"Well, it looks like it's a pretty even split, maybe a bit towards Obama!"

EVERYONE in the diner started laughing because they thought it was a joke. But then they cut away to speak at the anchor desk about how the Virginia race is tense because of this obvious split we just saw.

I mean, what do they think we are? Blind AND stupid? (These are not the droids you're looking for...?)

I mean...

Come on!!!

Really!!!

I don't know, maybe it's because I've been awake all night and I've got an 11 hour work day starting shortly, but I think I've had enough of the media for a while.

Wolfie, Ho Chi minh's are those black sandals the Viet Cong used to wear. American soldiers from Vietnam still wake up in a sweat to this day when they think they hear the sound of rubber soled shoes squeaking as someone walks by...they used to make them out of old rubber tires, right eagle?

228686 tn?1211558307
by Savas, Oct 28, 2008
Lovepat gets in the bunker if he can provide "Footed Jammies". Liberals are too lazy to put on socks. Preferably in the "Union Suit" style (with the drop seat in the back for convenient access!)

Republicans have streamlined the dollar...didn't they make it more convenient to carry by shrinking it's value from $1 to .53 cents??? Thank God!! Actual dollars are HEAVY!!! :-)

Avatar universal
by 122 Tactical Fighter Group, Oct 28, 2008
It has been neat that I could only check in here every several hours and still enjoy it so much. And yes, Savas, you have it down all the way on Uncle Ho's sandals................dont throw your old tires awy quite yet...............

213044 tn?1236531060
by AR-10, Oct 28, 2008
Sterling_Silver,

Fact check...what an interesting term.

Did you know Factcheck.org is a site created to spread lies and disinformation to benefit the Democrats? Created and funded by Democrats, using the principal that if you tell a lie enough times, it will become the truth.

A bit like Acorn. Funded by the Democrats with the goal of registering as many voters as possible, regardless of whether they are allowed to vote or not. Regardless of whether they are breathing or not. Regardless of whether they can read the ballot or show citizenship or not.

Why is it Democrats always end up getting slapped for voter fraud? It's so commonplace it is expected. You don't read about Republicans loading people onto buses and dragging them from precinct to precinct. You think the "hanging chad" incident is isolated? Who made "Chicago style" politics synonymous with dirty lying cheats. "Vote early, vote often" isn't a Republican joke. It's a Democratic philosophy that is put into practice at every election.

Not all Democrats are dishonest. But in every major election the Democrats cheat, lie, and steal with no remorse.

Nancy Pelosi stated publicly, and quite clearly, that if she had her way every American would turn in EVERY firearm they own. It's in the Congressional Record.

Did you know she has a permit to carry?
She wasn't talking about HER handgun, or the firearms her bodygaurds carry.
The two faced shrew was talking about MY firearms.

Why do my firearms bother her so much? Is she so stupid as to think that banning all firearms will disarm criminals? Like they care what the law says? No. She isn't stupid. She knows criminals will always have guns. So why does she want to disarm America? Look at history.

You think I'm pissed because I can't buy bullets? LOL!!!!
That's almost as funny as someone trying to say the Annenberg foundation has anything to do with Republicans. It's as amusing as saying "There were also 4 Presidents from major Universities on that board". What does that prove? That Democrats end up holding positions as university presidents? There's a big surprise.

As a person who feels I am responsible for providing for the welfare and safety of my family, I have set aside food, water, fuel, and LOTS of ammunition. I have tried for years to assure that if supply lines break down, I will have food and electricity for a while. I do not expect the government to come to my rescue if we have a disaster or a trucker's strike or a terrorist attack that shuts everything down for a week or two. I can live a normal life if the electricity goes down for a month. I even have meds put aside. I'm a WHACKO because I think it is wise to prepare for unexpected inconveniences.  

I'm pissed because, as usual, the people trying to get a Democrat into the oval office are lying and cheating and stealing to attain their goal. I'm pissed because the Republicans have become Democrats and the Democrats have become socialists. I'm pissed because nobody is representing ME.

I'm pissed because President Bush has FAILED to secure our borders, and has no intention of trying. I'm pissed because the Republicans and Democrats are both courting voters who don't even have citizenship or the right to vote. Government as a whole is corrupt and has no intention of representing the wishes of the American people.

The only person of interest in this election is Sara Palin, and she is getting knocked as a rube. She is a real person as opposed to your typical career politician, and that scares the career politicians, or amuses them, I suppose would be more acurate. I'll take a newbie over a socialist any day. And the truth is, she has more political experience than Senator Obama. Alaska is not complaining about her judgement or leadership.

      "I love how all republicans hate any safety net programs the Democrats fight for, but when they need help, they are first on line for the benifits.........................."

Nice...

And, oh, as long as we're talking about safety nets, thanks for the anti-smoking laws that have me hiding in a corner of the basement to smoke a cigarrette. I feel so much safer with the nanny state telling me what is good for me and what is not. Thank God I don't have to think for myself! It's amazing I lived to adulthood without all the laws we have these days to protect our chidren from themselves or their parents. You probably won't believe this, but my parents used to spank me to disipline me. Teachers had wooden paddles! The horror! We obeyed out of fear. Thank God chidren these days have the freedom to tell their teachers to **** off, or turn in their parents for abuse if they don't get their way. All hail the Nanny State safety net!!!

That government handout I'm getting? I paid into Social Security for thirty some years. That's MY money they are doling out so benevolently. You can keep your damn food stamps.  

458072 tn?1291418786
by peggy64, Oct 28, 2008
I"ve always said, if the government pays your way, they own you. Just a way to have legalized slavery for ANY color.



213044 tn?1236531060
by AR-10, Oct 28, 2008
Savas...LOL!!

This stuff gets me...animated.
Here I am shouting "you can keep your damn food stamps!", when in truth my opinion of food stamps may have little to do with whether or not I will be using them in a few months.

But I've got plenty of toilet paper and laundry soap!
:o)

It's actually come in quite handy the last year or two, this "preparedness" bent I have. I certainly can't afford to buy toilet paper right at the moment! LOL! Buying it on sale and putting it on the shelf wasn't such a bad plan. I think my butt is covered until about...March, unless we go on half rations.


I hear you on the media bias, but frankly, I see the bias being glaringly anti-Republican and heavily pro-Democrat. I'm sure there is plenty of blame to go around and finger pointing would find examples of both. but MY impression is that a lot of Obama things are swept under the rug, and McCain is not shown in a very appealing light much of the time.

One thing that has always chaffed me is the fact that most of the media still refers to President Bush as "Bush", or one time I even heard Mr. Bush, but President Clinton is always referred to as President Clinton. Without fail.

Once in a while they say President Bush, but often it is Bush, as though he does not deserve the same respect they STILL show former President Clinton.

And the "mile high club"? I hear you on that. I'd do it if I had the chance. But I'd do it with my wife. The fact that he bombed an aspirin factory a few weeks later to divert media attention from "the dress" sort of takes the high school prankishness out of it.

But all this is just dragging us off track.
You're trying to figure out where you stand in the world of politics.

Strict Constitutionalist
Jeffersonian whateveryousaid
Republican
Disgruntled Republican
Redneck Militia dude (they want Ron Paul)(it's a JOKE, people!)
Independant
Moderate Democrat
Liberal Democrat
Whatever

Go to YouTube
Type in "the truth about barack hussein obama", without the quotation marks, and click on the first video. It should say part 1/4. It's about ten minutes. All 4 parts are about 35 minutes total, but it gets a little weak halfway through part three.

Parts one and two are interesting, if you have an open mind.

The birkenstock comment wasn't a slam, it was an observation.
My mental image of you is sandals, actually. Curly black hair, wire rim glasses, a slight mustache, jeans, and a frumpy comfortable shirt of some sort. 5'8'', a little lanky.

I'm sure that's not the case, but it is what you look like to me.
Funny how we do that sort of thing, huh?

The Iternetz is SERIOUS BUSINESS! LOL!!

Just vote McCain, and work out this pesky political self image thing later.
Trust me.  *These are not the Democrats you are seeking*  
  

213044 tn?1236531060
by AR-10, Oct 28, 2008
Oh yeah!
I don't suppose you see the Obama advertisement up there in the corner do you?????
LOL!! You're killin' me here! LOL!!

Hi Peggy!
long time no see.
:o)



495284 tn?1333897642
by dominosarah, Oct 28, 2008
I only have one question.............i am in the lower income class, i live in the new ghetto of my town(for real) so when ya come thru if ya have to take me out will you at least spare the beagle and S the cat???  Dog and cat food containers are labeled in the basement!!!!!  Thank you........sara

Avatar universal
by teko, Oct 28, 2008
GO OBAMA 08

306867 tn?1299253309
by allaboutmary, Oct 28, 2008
GO OBAMA !

Avatar universal
by teko, Oct 28, 2008
I found this interesting, thought I would share...


Obama/Biden vs McCain/Palin, what if things were switched around?....
think about it.

Would the country's collective point of view be different?

Could racism be the culprit?

Ponder the following:

What if the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage,
including a three month old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter?

What if John McCain was a former president of the Harvard Law Review?

What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class?

What if McCain had only married once, and Obama was a divorcee?

What if Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after a severe disfiguring car accident, when she no longer measured up to his standards?

What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair while he was still married?

What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted to painkillers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable organization?

What if Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard?

What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five?(The Keating Five were fiveUnited States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political
scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s.)

What if McCain was a charismatic, eloquent speaker?

What if Obama couldn't read from a teleprompter?

What if Obama was the one who had military experience that included discipline
problems and a record of crashing seven planes?

What if Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on
many occasions, a serious anger management problem?

What if Michelle Obama's family had made their money from beer distribution?

What if the Obamas had adopted a white child?

You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected reality,
do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are?

This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes
positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative
qualities in another when there is a color difference.

Educational Background:

Barack Obama:
Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in
International Relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna *** Laude


Joseph Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)

vs.

John McCain:
United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899

Sarah Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters -journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism


Education isn't everything, but this is about the two highest offices in
the land as well as our standing in the world.


You make the call.


213044 tn?1236531060
by AR-10, Oct 28, 2008
I'll take the one with a U.S. citizenship for $500, Alex!

213044 tn?1236531060
by AR-10, Oct 28, 2008
So you're calling this racism, teko?

That's pretty shallow.
I can think of two black men in politics who would make very good presidents.
Obama isn't one of them.

306867 tn?1299253309
by allaboutmary, Oct 28, 2008
Wow great post  Teko !    That really makes you think.   I guess I'm voting for the right one for the right reasons.  I would definatley vote for McCain if he had Obama's education & judement and all the things listed above.    Again, GREAT POST !

Avatar universal
by VicUser, Oct 28, 2008
Well, Teko, unfortunately I think the same type of thing could be done for the support of McCain, but what good would that do?

Btw, what do you call the guy/gal  who finishes last in his/her class in medical school? Doctor!!

I don’t trust Lawyers, they can use words to make you think one thing while saying something else. So having them as Pres and VP is troublesome.


But I think Savas's Journal has been highjacked enough.


Savas, I were Birkenstocks and I lean to the right, but mine are from Sam's club and are from Birkenstock's sister company and a fraction of the cost of the one's that say Birkenstock. I do live near Yellow Springs Ohio, the lib capital of the world, to be a good lib you must wear hemp socks while wearing your Birkenstocks in cold weather.

228686 tn?1211558307
by Savas, Oct 29, 2008
Oh, I don't mind an occassional hijacking. I'm in the middle of the worst part of my work week... having mobsters put me on a truck with a load of cigarettes from Virginia, my journal, and "Made in China" Birkenstocks they stole off the back of a truck and shipping me to Boston seems like an ideal get away at the moment.

One of these days I'll post a picture, but that would involve getting a camera (something i've never had much use for).  But Ar-10, you aren't far off in the description - minus the mustache (used to have one with a goatee some years ago but my wife said it gave her a rash when we kissed).

Just one comment before I get back to work/ business; I wouldn't say I'm a "strict" constitutionalists, just that I believe that the constitution should be protected and amended VERY carefully. I think if I were a strict constitutionalist, there's a possibility we may end up with slavery again. :->

I'm going to check out that you tube a bit later. I've been watching TheYoungTurks a lot lately, and I'm curious to see what the other side is saying now. I can't really speak about the major news channels because I don't watch them any more. I've found that what they're doing isn't news so unless they're doing a report on rescued puppies or new Toys from Sharper Image, I generally don't bother.

Today, as part of my liberal democrat experiment, I've decided to pick up a copy of "The Village Voice" and actually read through it and see how I like it!!!!

Avatar universal
by teko, Oct 29, 2008
Hmmm. I do find your responses curious.  I found this interesting and to hold some degree of truth. I am sorry you see me as playing the race card. Other than race, what do you see? I see interesting comparisons, that is what I see. Geesh!

Avatar universal
by teko, Oct 29, 2008
Sorry,Savas

Was not my intention to hijack ya!

228686 tn?1211558307
by Savas, Oct 29, 2008
All right. I'm going to side bar here from my quest for democratic enlightenment;

I watched part one of the video you suggested and I'm going to start by saying that a friend of mine owes me 50 bucks (i'll bet anyone ten bucks he'll never pay up, too!!!).

You see, when I heard we had a presidential candidate with the name Barak "Hussein Obama"...I bet him 50 bucks that the other side (I didn't know Obama  was democrat) would spend billions on a smear campaign trying to link him to terrorists.

I mean...

Come on!

Hussein??? Obama????

It's just too bloody easy.

They may have well picked a candidate named "Barak Satan Hussein Adolph Osama". The opposing side couldn't have had more of a field day (in this case, the republicans).

So let me say, for the record, as a child of dual citizen parentage myself that this whole "Indonesia thing" is ****.

You see, this was back in the 70's, when America WASN'T a **** about dual citizenship. America didn't give a **** what other countries said about American Citizenship; if you were born in America, you're an American. So being born in America (Hawaii), with a Kenyan Mother and an American Father (Kansas) as I was born in Pennsylvania (with a New York Father and a Canadian mother), very much makes BOTH of us American citizens.

Now, EVEN if Indonesia made you give up dual citizenship, America would not acknowledge the surrendering of American Citizenship of a MINOR. Which Obama was. So...that's out the door as an issue right there. Even if his parents had said;

"We don't want our child Barak to be an American Citizen."

He would have had a legal right at 21 to declare that his American Citizenship be acknowledged and RECOGNIZED from birth.

So...he's a citizen. It isn't an issue. We can leave that alone now. If he ain't a citizen, then I'm not a citizen, as we have very similar situations, and i went through similar ****.


The only difference, btw, is Canada is a cool country that was okay with my and me mum's dual citizenship.

In the 80's, America became, as I said, a **** about Dual Citizenship and pulled my mum OUT OF LINE AT AN AIRPORT while she was waiting to board a plane (terrorizing myself at 10 years old and my older brothers) and questioning her closely about her dual citizenship.

They then DEMANDED she choose, on the spot, American or American Citizenship.

Lets not even get into the illegality of what was done here. This was, in effect, a Dickish move on the part of the then FBI backed Airport Security and in my opinion, every one of those agents was a prime candidate for me to insert my little ten your old feet up their rear nether regions and make them my own personal pair of FBI Agent *** Slippers.

So... my mum surrendered her Canadian Citizenship (we wanted to make Christmas Dinner at Grandma's in Canada). She had been living in America for decades and only visited Canada occassionally...but... it was still a very testicle oriented move on the part of our beloved American Government.

But i digress. :-)

The end result is at 21, I got to choose if I wanted to pick American or Canadian citizenship. At the time, it was a no brainer. i went with Good ol' Baseball, Mom, and Apple Pie America. And I am a FULL American Citizen, born and bred in the USA, who can Vote, eat Hot Dogs, and Run for President.

Just Like this Obama guy.

(My wife insists I mention she's a child of an American Citizen and an english (England) Citizen. She went through a similar thing. But I feel England doesn't count as it's own country, so we can ignore this. :->) (Ouch... she hit me yet again!)

Now, the terrorist stuff; ugh, I've never taken this seriously. As a country that is obsessed with the fear of terrorism, I find it hard to believe this administration would miss such a chance to tank this election for the democrats. I've yet to see an actual link that goes behind Obama happening to have a similar name.

HOWEVER, McCain's go-to guy who is supposed to co-ordinate his insertion into the white house (should he win)... worked for Sadam Hussein as a consultant in the 90's.. (I can't for the life of me remember his name at the moment). This isn't rumour, there's a LOT of documented paper trail to this fact. So as to who has the bigger connection to "terrorists" (big grin!).

228686 tn?1211558307
by Savas, Oct 29, 2008
*sigh*. That was "a s s slippers."  I point it out down here because...well... I think it's pretty darned funny. :->

611067 tn?1458595083
by HelpinUtah, Oct 29, 2008
Savas:
Have you read the actual lawsuit about this?  I did today and I believe the plaintiff makes a lot of sense in the PA case.  It's very interesting to say the least.  

228686 tn?1211558307
by Savas, Oct 29, 2008
Well, I'd be happy if i could follow the paper trail back some (finding all the motions was difficult, i spent a half hour and gave up)  but I'll tell you from what I was reading that the Obama Campaign's reaction is actually a logical response.

Here's the problem;

By responding to the lawsuit and presenting the documents, Obama gives validity to the whole argument that his citizenship is in question and he is a terrorist.

This is a "spin" situation. with the campaign closing shortly, dragging these documents into court and his responding can only hurt Obama. Here's how it would have played if he had brought the documents into court;

Berg would have viewed the documents and then called their validity into question, claiming the possibility they are forgeries. So, two weeks (now one week?) before election, it would have been splashed all over the papers like this in big headlines;

"OBAMA'S BIRTH DOCUMENTS BEING EXAMINED BY EXPERTS FOR POSSIBLE PROOF OF FORGERY".

Which would be more damaging than the other rumours going about.

I get the impression the motion for dismissal has been provided for two reasons;

1: Obama has already proven his citizenship at the appropriate time.

2: It's been shown that allowing the claimant to go forward (Berg) at this time would actually cause damage to Obama's lifestyle (run for president).

Since the claimant can't provide any actual evidence that there is a question as to Obama's citizenship, the motion for dismissal pursuant to relief has been allowed.



611067 tn?1458595083
by HelpinUtah, Oct 29, 2008
I'll find the link for you.  I found the link that give you a place to read the actual complaint in it's entirety as well as all the other documents on the docket.  I found it earlier.

Berg actually filed the lawsuit during the Primaries because he was a Hillary supporter.  I'll see if I can find the one I read today.  No matter what you believe, it's rather interesting reading.


228686 tn?1211558307
by Savas, Oct 29, 2008
thanks, the one I found some of the pdf's weren't working.

611067 tn?1458595083
by HelpinUtah, Oct 29, 2008
Here's the link:

I was able to read the complaint and other documents.  The documents are about half way down the page.  Just click on the links.  I might be wrong about Berg filing during the primaries like I had heard because he filed the lawsuit in August 2008.

http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/



Avatar universal
by 122 Tactical Fighter Group, Oct 29, 2008
Just checking in again....Savas - I never knew you had some Canuck in you....maybe thats because you were forced to renounce under duress at such a tender age. Why does it not surprise me that you managed to get caught up in Federally sponsored terroism at an airport?

Black men as President? Racism? A 100% American Redneck such as myself? Dont think so.....is it too late to accomodate Colin Powell?  No problem if that man runs for President..........

This campaign has actually been very interesting and has probably gotten more Americans back into really looking at the political climate. Never thought we were involved enough so I am quite glad that people are interested. The future applies to all of us. I was refreshed by the way Hillary and Obama got along after the primaries. Maybe they can get along as well post election. Hope so - - - -

213044 tn?1236531060
by AR-10, Oct 29, 2008
OK, you got me.

FBI agent *ss slippers IS pretty darn funny.


So did he ask to reclaim his rights as an American citizen when he was 21?
Because when he travelled abroad at 19 he did so with an Indonesian passport.

Is there some record of that? It must be a formal process.
Is there paperwork involved?
The whole court thing could have gone away a week after it started if the documents requested were submitted. I'm sure Senator Obama could speed the process up considerably.

At least we agree on the need to safegaurd the Constitution, and the luxury and privilege it is to be an American. (Or a Canadian)

I see McCain as the lesser of two evils.
Isn't that always the choice we have?
The less stinky one?

Avatar universal
by cowgirlnerd, Oct 30, 2008
Ok, I am a HUGE Savas fan - I am bringing footie pajamas if he lets me in the bunker.

BUT - AR-10....you MUST be joking about Palin.  Alaska is charging her with everything imaginable for her short term as governor!  Not to mention she is a big dumb a**.  You have got to be joking.  PLEASE tell me you are joking that you enjoy her.  You seem to intelligent (even if you are a Republican) to think Ms. Harper Valley PTA is not a dumb a**.

Savas - you are so hilarious!  FBI Agent A** slippers ......that's wayyy to funny.

I don't see McCain as the lesser of two evils - because I think Obama is not evil.  That would make McCain evil and Obama - well....NOT evil.  I choose NOT evil.  

Savas - do you say ABUTE our About?  

193137 tn?1367883663
by sk123, Oct 30, 2008
Savas, I know how you feel. I registered Republican when I was 18 and now I would say that I am a conservative Democrat. I like the old school laissez-faire economics and free markets that Republicans used to stand for.

In any case, being from San Francisco, the capital of coming out's, I thought I would offer this little advice: Be loud, be proud, and when in doubt, put on some hot pants and just shout.



193137 tn?1367883663
by sk123, Oct 30, 2008
Oh, and we tend to politely discuss politics (or bash Palin depending on the time of night) over Pinot Noirs from the Russian River Valley (or another Sonoma red). Napa Valley wines are just so passe.

134578 tn?1546634665
by AnnieBrooke, Oct 30, 2008
Liberal men wear Merrills.

172023 tn?1334675884
by peekawho, Oct 30, 2008
Vote NO on prop 8.

(Paid for by the Peek Wants to Marry Her Dog Campaign).

483733 tn?1326802046
by TrudieC, Oct 30, 2008
Has anyone seen this?  http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/cc65ed650d/ron-howards-call-to-action-from-ron-howard-and-henry-winkler


213044 tn?1236531060
by AR-10, Oct 30, 2008
cowgirlnerd

Please show me documents that indicate Alaskans are currently charging her with ..oh...anything.
I've read your stuff in other threads and you seem to think the truth is like a rubber band or something.

I know there is the HUGE CLOTHING SCANDAL, and her husband has been accused of being a secessionist (something you can't even spell), and there was the whole trooper scandal that she was found faultless in, but please, point to something that has factual merit.

Has she bankrupt the state?
Did she vote over and over to force banks to loan money to people who could not afford the payments?

And frankly, whatever you think of her, I'll just multiply that by five and apply it to you. All those dumd *ss remarks? See where I'm going?

I'm done. This is no longer fun. I've lost several friends since the whole political thing moved into Medhelp. I'm glad, too. Bunch of socialists.

"He's got TOO much money. Make the government take it from him and we can send it to Somalia."

What a load of cr*p.

"Don't ask, don't tell" has a place on this site.

Avatar universal
by cowgirlnerd, Oct 31, 2008
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jwb6ekOiK0T9yFvw_WURcrdPI65QD93V4AJ82

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/21/palin.travel.ap/index.html?iref=newssearch

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Decision2008/wireStory?id=6082589

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=6152425

I would hate to think that I am five of Sarah Palin - that would have me at a negative status, still....she is an idiot.    I am not the only one with that opinion....  watched any news lately?  

What's the don't ask don't tell about ???  

Avatar universal
by shannonf_bc, Oct 31, 2008
Okay, this is going to be very unpopular.  But I think the best thing you can do for your countries economy is to end the war and bring your boys home... Why waste all that money in Iraq anyway.

As far as taxes go they do hurt the poor and middle class.  We pay 13% sales tax here.  It's not on certain foods like flour but it is on alot of things.  Sales tax is just a way to tax the same wage over again.

And must say the obama is a muslim stuff is getting really old.  He isn't and even if he was so what.  Pick up a Koran and read it (you will be suprised it reads almost exactly the same as the holy bible folks).  The fact that Obama keeps being reffered to as muslim makes me think he probably is the best candidate otherwise his opposition would be able to come up with some better reason not to vote for him lol.

Happy Halloween everyone.   And awesome post savas it was both amusing and insightful

Avatar universal
by shannonf_bc, Oct 31, 2008
Oh yeah and cowgirlnerd   Don't believe everything you hear on the news it's 90% bs

535822 tn?1443980380
by margypops, Nov 02, 2008
Great stuff guys, I am going to spend the next hour to digest it.I wanted to respond but I think you have said it all.  

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