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7 year old son, has no respect for mum
I am at wits end as what to do with my 7 year old son and I am not sure where to start. Everyone keeps telling me it is normal boy behaviour but then when relatives/friends see the behaviour they are OMG that is ..... Explosive! The relationship i have with my son for a start is strained, for the fact that he completely ignores me, argues with me about everything, calls me stupid, i dont expect much but even the simplest tasks end up in a confrontational, he has as i have calmly told him that he has absolutely no respect for me, He and his 4 year old sister come from a very loving, secure, safe family environment. My son has always been a challenge and at first i thought it was a part of being a parent, but with a second sibling she is so so easy. Our son is very smart and i think that maybe this is part of the problem that he has no logic in him at all, his young sibling can even understand the simplest tasks where he does not respond. His attitude towards his father is ..... he puts him on a pedestal, and thinks his father is the only one that has the answers, which fustrates my husband and he is constant support behind me and chats to him often that his mummy is very important. He has spoken of killing himself when he fails at something which we obviously try to say that wont achieve anything etc etc, He is a perfectionist and if he doesnt do it right then look out. I unfortunately am trying to still show him lots of love but i am struggling to enjoy my time with him, which is hard because i know before too long he will be all grown up. We have hit this cross road many times in the last 7 years not sure what to do anymore, like i said many people say normal boy behaviour but my gut feeling maybe he needs help, not sure where or we arent the most financial either too be paying large amounts of money for a shrink!!
A big thank you too you all for your responses and tactical ways to improve my sons behaviour. There is definately some new approaches that we will definately take on board and sometimes I think you just need to get inspired again to take on a new phase!!! Will go and get the two books that were recommended, try and be firm with the rewards charts and give them at least 3 weeks and more. Just quickly in answer to special moms question about exercise, yes he does swim squads once a week( He is a very good swimmer but bit cold here now for more swimming a moment!) and he does basketball once a week and we take our dog for a walk most day but it is also to take him for a stretch too!
Again thanx, always willing to give things a go.
Again thanx, always willing to give things a go.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Thank you for your response. Lots of great ideas posted by Specialmom. I haven't yet read the book she recommended, but if she recommended it - its worth checking out. I'm in the process of ordering it now.
One thing I didn't mention is consistency. You said, "We do have rules and reward charts that do work for a while then they dont so we change them then we try a new lot and they do work a bit!! That's pretty much playing into the hands of a bright kid. You try something new - and they start problem solving out how to get around it. After awhile, you give up and move on to something else. You are actually reinforcing their behavior.
Consistency (as long as it is fair) is super important. Experts say it takes at least 3 weeks to change a childs behavior. That means that for 3 weeks you have to be very consistent in what you do. That is one reason why good teachers don't have the same problems that you are having. They have a set of class rules (which are fair), and they have a set of consequences - and they stick to them. As the year winds down, they might ease up a bit - but month, after month, the rules and consequences don't change. Of course, it also helps that the child comes into to them new (hasn't had a lifetime to train the teacher), and the teacher immediately makes the rules. So as specialmom says, pick just one or two things to start on - and then keep at it. Best wishes.
One thing I didn't mention is consistency. You said, "We do have rules and reward charts that do work for a while then they dont so we change them then we try a new lot and they do work a bit!! That's pretty much playing into the hands of a bright kid. You try something new - and they start problem solving out how to get around it. After awhile, you give up and move on to something else. You are actually reinforcing their behavior.
Consistency (as long as it is fair) is super important. Experts say it takes at least 3 weeks to change a childs behavior. That means that for 3 weeks you have to be very consistent in what you do. That is one reason why good teachers don't have the same problems that you are having. They have a set of class rules (which are fair), and they have a set of consequences - and they stick to them. As the year winds down, they might ease up a bit - but month, after month, the rules and consequences don't change. Of course, it also helps that the child comes into to them new (hasn't had a lifetime to train the teacher), and the teacher immediately makes the rules. So as specialmom says, pick just one or two things to start on - and then keep at it. Best wishes.
Well Betty, that is great news that he does well in school which means that add/adhd or another nervous system issue is unlikely! You'll be able to rule that out more as school gets harder.
In the meantime, it is hard to parent a child that is not showing us respect. Grrr! The "love and logic" book that I recommended is what our school recommends to all parents. It goes through a system of setting up natural consequences that come from the child's actions. They are in control of what happens to them and once they realize that . . . they may change their actions and behaviors. I do not tolerate back talk or rude behavior towards me. Period. I have two boys and one has a developmental delay called sensory integration disorder and the other does not. But my rule is the same for both. If you speak rudely, I won't answer you. I'm the keeper of all things good in the home and I know what they want! Video games . . . well. You can't speak rudely to me and expect to play your video game. Soccer practice? Can't speak rudely and go. I simply say I will not respond when you speak to me that way. And they know that I'm the lady in charge of everything they want to do in life . .. so they have to respect me. Does that make sense? It is kind of just an underlying current in our home at this point.
Throw a toy, lose a toy. Don't put your shoes in the shoe pile (as we call it)------- well, I'm not going to help you look for them and if you are late, you are late. Next time, put your shoes in the shoe pile. Throw a fit or scream when we are out, we go straight home. Yell while I'm driving, I'm pulling over and sitting. Decide not to do your homework when I've reminded you and prompted you 2 times, then explain it to your teacher the next day when she asks for it and you don't have it. I'm not going to help you at the last minute before the bus comes. THEIR actions result in the outcome of the situation.
I think a boy of 7 needs a lot of physical activity. And . . .physical activity has a direct effect on the nervous system and hence, behavior. I'd get this boy out and going every day. Does he like any sports? Does he like to swim and would be willing to take lessons or swim on a team? Soccer is great. Running around the house and riding bikes are all excellent for smoothing out the edges. You could make it a family affair. We do a family hike every weekend and it is fun. But it should help with behavior.
Sleep is a big issue with kids. I'd start to make comments during the day when he has a bad one . . . "oh, you didn't get enough sleep last night. We NEED our sleep to feel good." Due to sensory issues, my son will go through periods of not being a great sleeper. I started doing this with him a lot and it really clicked. He gets it that he needs to get his rest. He makes an effort at night to GO to sleep now. I'd keep that bed time nice and early.
Do you do any type of reward system at home? Beans in a jar works nicely for this age. Any time her responds as you'd like or is positive or does something the right way or really any little thing that is moving in the right direction----- he gets a bean in the jar. When he gets to a certain number of beans (20 is good)----- he gets either an activity of his choosing or something else he likes. My kids love to get coins for good deeds too. They put it in their piggy bank and when the bank is full, we open them as a family and count the money. Good math practice! Then they save half and get to spend half. They LOVE that. Amazing what I can get them to do for a nickel! I started a chart recently as well. It is going pretty well.
I'd pick maybe two things to start with to try and work on in terms of changing behavior. Start small so no one is overwhelmed with the request. It takes time so even when it feels like it isn't working, keep at it.
I'd throw on so much praise he doesn't know what hit him. He does the least little thing (even things you expect out of him)----- you just lop on the praise and cheers so that he feels that he can please you and likes doing so.
School is usually routine and structured as well. Make sure the home is set up that way. Good luck. I hope that you are able to work this out so all can be happy!
In the meantime, it is hard to parent a child that is not showing us respect. Grrr! The "love and logic" book that I recommended is what our school recommends to all parents. It goes through a system of setting up natural consequences that come from the child's actions. They are in control of what happens to them and once they realize that . . . they may change their actions and behaviors. I do not tolerate back talk or rude behavior towards me. Period. I have two boys and one has a developmental delay called sensory integration disorder and the other does not. But my rule is the same for both. If you speak rudely, I won't answer you. I'm the keeper of all things good in the home and I know what they want! Video games . . . well. You can't speak rudely to me and expect to play your video game. Soccer practice? Can't speak rudely and go. I simply say I will not respond when you speak to me that way. And they know that I'm the lady in charge of everything they want to do in life . .. so they have to respect me. Does that make sense? It is kind of just an underlying current in our home at this point.
Throw a toy, lose a toy. Don't put your shoes in the shoe pile (as we call it)------- well, I'm not going to help you look for them and if you are late, you are late. Next time, put your shoes in the shoe pile. Throw a fit or scream when we are out, we go straight home. Yell while I'm driving, I'm pulling over and sitting. Decide not to do your homework when I've reminded you and prompted you 2 times, then explain it to your teacher the next day when she asks for it and you don't have it. I'm not going to help you at the last minute before the bus comes. THEIR actions result in the outcome of the situation.
I think a boy of 7 needs a lot of physical activity. And . . .physical activity has a direct effect on the nervous system and hence, behavior. I'd get this boy out and going every day. Does he like any sports? Does he like to swim and would be willing to take lessons or swim on a team? Soccer is great. Running around the house and riding bikes are all excellent for smoothing out the edges. You could make it a family affair. We do a family hike every weekend and it is fun. But it should help with behavior.
Sleep is a big issue with kids. I'd start to make comments during the day when he has a bad one . . . "oh, you didn't get enough sleep last night. We NEED our sleep to feel good." Due to sensory issues, my son will go through periods of not being a great sleeper. I started doing this with him a lot and it really clicked. He gets it that he needs to get his rest. He makes an effort at night to GO to sleep now. I'd keep that bed time nice and early.
Do you do any type of reward system at home? Beans in a jar works nicely for this age. Any time her responds as you'd like or is positive or does something the right way or really any little thing that is moving in the right direction----- he gets a bean in the jar. When he gets to a certain number of beans (20 is good)----- he gets either an activity of his choosing or something else he likes. My kids love to get coins for good deeds too. They put it in their piggy bank and when the bank is full, we open them as a family and count the money. Good math practice! Then they save half and get to spend half. They LOVE that. Amazing what I can get them to do for a nickel! I started a chart recently as well. It is going pretty well.
I'd pick maybe two things to start with to try and work on in terms of changing behavior. Start small so no one is overwhelmed with the request. It takes time so even when it feels like it isn't working, keep at it.
I'd throw on so much praise he doesn't know what hit him. He does the least little thing (even things you expect out of him)----- you just lop on the praise and cheers so that he feels that he can please you and likes doing so.
School is usually routine and structured as well. Make sure the home is set up that way. Good luck. I hope that you are able to work this out so all can be happy!
I saw that your son doesn't sleep well. There could also be sleep abnea or he could be have night time Seizures. And those things could be why he is acting out.
I thou you might want to look into these things also.
I thou you might want to look into these things also.
Sandman, I just wanted to get kudos for breaking this down in this way------------ after the original poster gives some more info----------- it will be easier to see what might be the next course of action. But I just wanted to tell you that I think you provide such valuable help to people such as this lady and her son.
I also recommend a book for this age range "Love and Logic". Very helpful in discussing natural consequences.
I also recommend a book for this age range "Love and Logic". Very helpful in discussing natural consequences.
thank you for your response, in answer to your questions, yes he is a fantastic student. All his teachers love him and he has great grades. I keep in constant contact with his teachers and they all love having him in the class. We do have rules and reward charts that do work for a while then they dont so we change them then we try a new lot and they do work a bit!! We love our son very much and we are always trying new approaches and we are always very honest with him, maybe too honest sometimes.
I have been reading other blogs and realise that there is a whole lot of other families out there with way worse situations. I also have been able to read one lot of blogging that explore the tonsil and anoids theory. Our son surprisingly enough is on a wait list too have them removed. He does gurgle and snuffle all night and perhaps he isnt getting a good night sleep. So not having a great night sleep may result in grumpiness, vagueness, unresponsiveness, etc etc. Although not proven of course but as quoted by another mum, ADD and ADHD was never around much years ago when tonsils and anoids were removed and kids slept better instead of running around trying not too fall alsleep!! Always a thought and one that in my sitution is willing too back.
Thank you, yes I will seek out that book you suggest "SOS help for parents", I am always willing to read and get invigourated again.
Cheers Betty
I have been reading other blogs and realise that there is a whole lot of other families out there with way worse situations. I also have been able to read one lot of blogging that explore the tonsil and anoids theory. Our son surprisingly enough is on a wait list too have them removed. He does gurgle and snuffle all night and perhaps he isnt getting a good night sleep. So not having a great night sleep may result in grumpiness, vagueness, unresponsiveness, etc etc. Although not proven of course but as quoted by another mum, ADD and ADHD was never around much years ago when tonsils and anoids were removed and kids slept better instead of running around trying not too fall alsleep!! Always a thought and one that in my sitution is willing too back.
Thank you, yes I will seek out that book you suggest "SOS help for parents", I am always willing to read and get invigourated again.
Cheers Betty
COMMUNITY LEADER
Well, its not normal boy behavior, but I have seen posts like yours enough times on the child behavior forum to realize that it is certainly not unusual.
I guess my first question would be, "why did you post on the ADHD forum"? So lets try and get rid of that right away. What is he like at school? Does he disrespect his teachers? Have his grades been good? Are they excellent? Have they started to recently fall?
This all has to deal with can he control his behavior. It is very possible that if all the answers to the school setting is that he is a fine student and that teachers like him. Then he is capable of better control.
If he is as intelligent as you think, than he probably has been using that intelligence for a long time to get his way. Or at least since his sister came along, and he had to start finding ways to get your attention. You say your daughter, "can even understand the simplest tasks where he does not respond." Actually, that's very logical. Its called the easiest way to avoid something is to not respond. Easy way to double check this is to once again - talk to his teachers. If they say, take our your books, etc. and he does it - then he's capable of dealing with your requests.
If he has problems in school, than we are definitely looking at something else and the school can be very helpful here. And you could be on the correct forum, and I can give you lots of suggestions.
If the problem is only at home, then its time for you to start dealing with him the same way they do at school. You need a constant set of rules and consequences. The book, "SOS Help for Parents," by Lynn Clark will be very helpful for you. You also might go through some of the posts on the child behavior forum that deal with similar behaviors in 5,6, and 7 year olds. I can give a lot more suggestions ( and have done so on the child behavior forum), but I need to know the answers to the questions I posed - as a lot changes if he is also having problems at school.
I guess my first question would be, "why did you post on the ADHD forum"? So lets try and get rid of that right away. What is he like at school? Does he disrespect his teachers? Have his grades been good? Are they excellent? Have they started to recently fall?
This all has to deal with can he control his behavior. It is very possible that if all the answers to the school setting is that he is a fine student and that teachers like him. Then he is capable of better control.
If he is as intelligent as you think, than he probably has been using that intelligence for a long time to get his way. Or at least since his sister came along, and he had to start finding ways to get your attention. You say your daughter, "can even understand the simplest tasks where he does not respond." Actually, that's very logical. Its called the easiest way to avoid something is to not respond. Easy way to double check this is to once again - talk to his teachers. If they say, take our your books, etc. and he does it - then he's capable of dealing with your requests.
If he has problems in school, than we are definitely looking at something else and the school can be very helpful here. And you could be on the correct forum, and I can give you lots of suggestions.
If the problem is only at home, then its time for you to start dealing with him the same way they do at school. You need a constant set of rules and consequences. The book, "SOS Help for Parents," by Lynn Clark will be very helpful for you. You also might go through some of the posts on the child behavior forum that deal with similar behaviors in 5,6, and 7 year olds. I can give a lot more suggestions ( and have done so on the child behavior forum), but I need to know the answers to the questions I posed - as a lot changes if he is also having problems at school.
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