Aa
impossible 5 yr old
Hi i,ve posted before about some issues with my kid boy. He has a very disruptive behavior and at times is impossible to deal with. I love him with all my heart, but sometimes he can drive us crazy. Problems start the minute he wakes up, he will not get dressed, he says that he wants to choose another set of pants because he doesnt want to choose between the two sets of pants that I chose for him. He wants to wear sweatpants everyday, but today the sweatpants were not ready, they were in the dirty clothes bin. He will refuse to wear jeans or dressy shirts. He will make a big fuss to comb hid hair, he cries and throws himself on the floor. It is very difficult for us to get him to obey, sometimes we have tovdi things for him, such as feeding him or dressing him or putting on hus shoes. His father is stsrting to realize hiw diffucult to tolerate his behavior is. He is rude most of the time, will shout, kick or scream bad words at me most of the time. We,ve been giving him time outs, which havent helped abd counted to three for him ti obey. If he diesnt obey he will get a time out. Im not proud of hus behavior, i feel ashsmed, i cant understand if im doing something wrong, and im very worried abiut the example he,s setting for his sister. We tried occupational thrapy for suspected sensory issues but didnt help. Any suggestions for desperate and angry parents?
COMMUNITY LEADER
Well, I went back and reviewed over two years of posts - what a trip! Its something that you should try as you definitely can see how things have gotten better. From doing that I have two or so major points.
The first is related to the above post by you. You have a 50 (or so) experienced teacher who should know all about consistency and discipline - and is still having problems with him. That tells me a lot. And what it tells me is that his problem lies beyond something that normal disciplinary actions are going to help. Yes, they will help with some of his problems. And in looking back through your earlier posts, I can see where he has gotten better due to what you have done. From my own personal experience I can be an extremely consistent, don't mess with my rules person in the classroom. But, I have found that when that doesn't work (and there have been times when it has not), then you need to start looking at other things to do. The main thing I always did was get to know the kid really well so I could understand where he/she was coming from. And the second thing was to talk to the school psyc for help. Once I was able to figure out where the child was coming from, I then modified my approach to working with that child. I always had a workable situation going on by the end of the year (but, it took me a lot of years to get to that point).
My point is that just consistency and discipline are not going to solve his problem. In going back through your earlier posts I saw the references to sensory integration disorder. I thought specialmoms post to you on Dec 16, 2010 was very accurate. When I was posting to you in Mar of 2011, I did not know that much about SIDS. Now thanks to specialmom, I do. And the more you write, the more I see SIDS as part of the problem. Your whole starting post on Jun 20 just screamed SIDS at me. The ball got dropped by the OT big time! And as specialmom said on Jun 20, it just doesn't disappear. I really think that you still need to investigate more. Here is a great web site on SIDS - http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/index.html
The trouble is it all most has too much info. I highly suggest that you visit the sensory site here (specialmom is the leader) - http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Sensory-Integration-Disorder-SID/show/1396
and ask for activities that you can do with him at home. Besides being fun things to do, they may really help him and they certainly won't hurt. If the OT can't help (or if you can't find a new and better one) then you may have to do this your self. So get back to specialmom. She has many, many things that can help.
And, I think that you might want to get back to the private psychologist that first suggested you check out SIDS. At least, he was on the right track - unlike the school psyc.
It looks like over the last two years that things have gotten better in some ways. That is because you have worked so hard at making things work. Don't ease up now!!! Best wishes.
The first is related to the above post by you. You have a 50 (or so) experienced teacher who should know all about consistency and discipline - and is still having problems with him. That tells me a lot. And what it tells me is that his problem lies beyond something that normal disciplinary actions are going to help. Yes, they will help with some of his problems. And in looking back through your earlier posts, I can see where he has gotten better due to what you have done. From my own personal experience I can be an extremely consistent, don't mess with my rules person in the classroom. But, I have found that when that doesn't work (and there have been times when it has not), then you need to start looking at other things to do. The main thing I always did was get to know the kid really well so I could understand where he/she was coming from. And the second thing was to talk to the school psyc for help. Once I was able to figure out where the child was coming from, I then modified my approach to working with that child. I always had a workable situation going on by the end of the year (but, it took me a lot of years to get to that point).
My point is that just consistency and discipline are not going to solve his problem. In going back through your earlier posts I saw the references to sensory integration disorder. I thought specialmoms post to you on Dec 16, 2010 was very accurate. When I was posting to you in Mar of 2011, I did not know that much about SIDS. Now thanks to specialmom, I do. And the more you write, the more I see SIDS as part of the problem. Your whole starting post on Jun 20 just screamed SIDS at me. The ball got dropped by the OT big time! And as specialmom said on Jun 20, it just doesn't disappear. I really think that you still need to investigate more. Here is a great web site on SIDS - http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/index.html
The trouble is it all most has too much info. I highly suggest that you visit the sensory site here (specialmom is the leader) - http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Sensory-Integration-Disorder-SID/show/1396
and ask for activities that you can do with him at home. Besides being fun things to do, they may really help him and they certainly won't hurt. If the OT can't help (or if you can't find a new and better one) then you may have to do this your self. So get back to specialmom. She has many, many things that can help.
And, I think that you might want to get back to the private psychologist that first suggested you check out SIDS. At least, he was on the right track - unlike the school psyc.
It looks like over the last two years that things have gotten better in some ways. That is because you have worked so hard at making things work. Don't ease up now!!! Best wishes.
I forget to mention he seems shy at times also and had the worse time at the rehersal for graduation, he did not open his mouth to sing even once however he did say his lines which I took and ran with it, it could had been much worse ,I am tankful it was not any pushing or screaming involve :) He also has had the episodes in the line acting the same way your son did and the last birthday party I took him last week was a disaster. :( we had to leave before cake. He also seems to have periods of time when he is behaved and want to please but the are problably 10% of the day,I Pray to God often to help me find a way to make them last a little more every day. :)
I feel like you are talking about my son.He is 5 too and has the same set of social problems that your son has, my son only complain in the sensory area is with food textures,however his behavior in school is very similar to your son's.It seems like he wants to do what he feels to do and if he needs to cut in line,ignore instructions or lie he would do it, my husband and I spend the whole day telling him the correct way to act,use his words, be kind.etc...
As in your case i try to say calm and collected when he is ignoring me and not listening but my husband cannot take it for so long and he will loose his patience, My son will hit me when i try to enforce rules,he wont hit my husband .I feel the same way about kids rejecting him . He is well liked now by his peers except one of them but a different story with the parents of his classmates ,who see me twice a week talking to his teacher and know the way he acts.I dont see a lot of birthday parties in his future, a lot of parents dont talk to me as they must think his behavior reflects on my parenting, I have a 7 y/o girl with no issues in school or home,so i feel your pain. I try to be consistent now that I have him home for the summer and hope and trust in God that he will be better next year while trying to address the flows that I been able to identify with my parenting
I am sorry for the spelling my first language is spanish,keep in touch if you feel you find something that works or just to vent, I feel your pain, good luck.:)
As in your case i try to say calm and collected when he is ignoring me and not listening but my husband cannot take it for so long and he will loose his patience, My son will hit me when i try to enforce rules,he wont hit my husband .I feel the same way about kids rejecting him . He is well liked now by his peers except one of them but a different story with the parents of his classmates ,who see me twice a week talking to his teacher and know the way he acts.I dont see a lot of birthday parties in his future, a lot of parents dont talk to me as they must think his behavior reflects on my parenting, I have a 7 y/o girl with no issues in school or home,so i feel your pain. I try to be consistent now that I have him home for the summer and hope and trust in God that he will be better next year while trying to address the flows that I been able to identify with my parenting
I am sorry for the spelling my first language is spanish,keep in touch if you feel you find something that works or just to vent, I feel your pain, good luck.:)
The teacher seems to be experienced, she is about 50 years old. To give you an example on his behavior: today i had an activity with him at school, where kids had to line up. I saw a girl pushing him harshly 2 or 3 times. I realized he must have cut in and the girl got angry. When asked he said he doesnt know why she pushed him. He always gets into trouble like this. But he does know thst he cut in line. He shouts at other kids, or has a hard time sharing. Lately hes been complaining about the kids, that someone kicked him, or someone laughed at him and it breaks my heart. Im afraid that hes causing his own rejection, without knowing exactly what the consequences of his behavior are. His issue is mostly social. Now he is a well accepted kid, but as theyre growing up i fear that kids will reject him because he is aggressive. I cant figure out the problem but dont want to lose time. Weve gone through separation anxieties when he was little, to shyness to bad behavior. I do have to mention that when i took the discipline program clsss school psychologist called and said he was doing better.
COMMUNITY LEADER
The reason I wondered about your teachers experience level was due to when she said, "She said he needs clear boundaries and consequences to bad behavior." She is exactly right. The only thing is that is what she also should be doing. An experienced teacher doing that will see changes in the child. If an experienced teacher is doing the above and it is not working then that would indicate that something more is going on then just parenting problems. That is the major reason why I asked how school was going. A good doc will always take a look at how the child is doing in both settings.
I am going to go back and look at some of our older posts. I have learned a lot about things like sensory integration since then and I want to see if that fits any of his earlier symptoms.
And I would definitely post to the sensory forum and try some of specialmoms suggestions.
And what we are trying to figure out is how much of this can the child control and how much is out of his control.
I am going to go back and look at some of our older posts. I have learned a lot about things like sensory integration since then and I want to see if that fits any of his earlier symptoms.
And I would definitely post to the sensory forum and try some of specialmoms suggestions.
And what we are trying to figure out is how much of this can the child control and how much is out of his control.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Any idea how long his teacher has been teaching? Are they young or a old experienced teacher?
Hi I just went to the evaluayion today. The teacher said my boy needs to learn to respect and not defy authority. She said he needs clear boundaries and consequences to bad behavior. She said that he wants to dobwhatever pleases him and not obey instructions. She suggested to keep reading a story at night, practice numbers and applauded j,s creativity.
We have been working on boundaries since he was born, he does know perfectly well what is ok and whats not. But for almost3 yrs now he s been rebellious. Doing exactly what hes told not to do.
Even though the path has been a difficult one I do trust him and trust my ability as a mother. So hopefully things will get better next scool year.
Thank u for book suggestions.
I will continue reporting about his behavior.
We have been working on boundaries since he was born, he does know perfectly well what is ok and whats not. But for almost3 yrs now he s been rebellious. Doing exactly what hes told not to do.
Even though the path has been a difficult one I do trust him and trust my ability as a mother. So hopefully things will get better next scool year.
Thank u for book suggestions.
I will continue reporting about his behavior.
COMMUNITY LEADER
One thing that we constantly tell parents is that kids really don't know (at this age) how to deal with frustration or anger. They really need to be taught ways to communicate their feelings. There is a great set of books aimed at the 4 to 7 year old child. They are meant to be read aloud to them. The books will not only give the child a better way to communicate, they will also give you a common vocabulary. It is something that daddy should also spend some quality time reading to his kid.
I would start with either "cool down and work through anger" found here - http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Through-Anger-Learning-Along/dp/1575423464/ref=pd_sim_b_5
or "When I feel angry" found here- http://www.amazon.com/When-Feel-Angry-Way-Books/dp/0807588970/ref=pd_sim_b_2
And on the Amazon site, if you scroll down you will find other books that will be helpful. These books are meant to be read several (or many) times and then practice the suggestions in the book. Actually role play them out. To change behavior, you must constantly repeat.
I am glad to hear that things went better today.
Thought it was interesting that he hit his dad. That is learned behavior from somewhere. But as specialmom always says, ya gotta pick your battles.
Anyway, let us know what his teacher suggests. As I said I am curious about the way he acts at school compared to home.
I would start with either "cool down and work through anger" found here - http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Through-Anger-Learning-Along/dp/1575423464/ref=pd_sim_b_5
or "When I feel angry" found here- http://www.amazon.com/When-Feel-Angry-Way-Books/dp/0807588970/ref=pd_sim_b_2
And on the Amazon site, if you scroll down you will find other books that will be helpful. These books are meant to be read several (or many) times and then practice the suggestions in the book. Actually role play them out. To change behavior, you must constantly repeat.
I am glad to hear that things went better today.
Thought it was interesting that he hit his dad. That is learned behavior from somewhere. But as specialmom always says, ya gotta pick your battles.
Anyway, let us know what his teacher suggests. As I said I am curious about the way he acts at school compared to home.
Hi. No written complaints from the teacher, but consrsnt communication. As this svhool year is ending we will meet the teacher for an overall evaluation. Here she will tell us what we need to work on, and in which areas he is doing well. Today he was better than other days, it was his graduation, he did it quite well. In the past my son had a very hard time doing school plays and stuff. He would cover his eyes with his hands and got so nervous and shy that once couldn,t participate. The last two school events have gone very well.
About his behavior what he does is he gets angry very easily, that seems to be his constant mood throughout the day, except some nice moments. Throughout the day he will also be good at moments in order to win a sticker for his good behavior chart. He can exchange his stickers for little prizes like a pen, a little toy, etc. Sometimes he will also be rude to people without provocation. He imitates the maid when she talks, or me or snaps something at his sister. Today he hit his dad, because he wouldnt order ice cream for him at a restaurant. I spoke with my husband about choosing his battles. I thought ordering ice cream was no big deal after he hadbehaved and ate on his own.
About his behavior what he does is he gets angry very easily, that seems to be his constant mood throughout the day, except some nice moments. Throughout the day he will also be good at moments in order to win a sticker for his good behavior chart. He can exchange his stickers for little prizes like a pen, a little toy, etc. Sometimes he will also be rude to people without provocation. He imitates the maid when she talks, or me or snaps something at his sister. Today he hit his dad, because he wouldnt order ice cream for him at a restaurant. I spoke with my husband about choosing his battles. I thought ordering ice cream was no big deal after he hadbehaved and ate on his own.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Opps, I meant to have said - And just punishing him for what he is doing instead of dealing with the problem is NOT going to stop him from doing it. In fact, it may make it worse.
COMMUNITY LEADER
As you said, "ve tried for years to control my sons behavior, not being able to fully calm him down." but lately "As of me Im setting boundaries but with a calmer, more patient approach. This couple of days he is nicer to me." Sounds like your new approach is working. Where as it sounds like your husband is still doing the same thing with the same effects.
I one thing I do know is that you guys have to be on the same page. At this age consistency is key. If you and he are not consistent - you won't get good results. In short you need a good game plan and then you need to follow that plan.
I can't remember if I have recommended these books in the past. They will provide you with a game plan. They are the most highly recommended books on the site. They are "SOS Help for Parents," by Lynn Clark. and "love and Logic" by Fay and Cline. They take slightly different approaches to discipline so its worth checking both out.
But the most important thing is to figure out why he is "rebellious". If he does have SIDs, then his rebellion is a very normal function of dealing with the overload on his senses. And just punishing him for what he is doing instead of dealing with the problem is going to stop him from doing it. In fact, it may make it worse. And, of course, I'm not sure you know what the problem is (I sure don't - yet). That was one reason I asked about school. Unfortunately, the problems you mentioned sounded a bit typical for this age group at this time of the year.
Do you get any written complaints from the teacher during the year where she was more specific?
I one thing I do know is that you guys have to be on the same page. At this age consistency is key. If you and he are not consistent - you won't get good results. In short you need a good game plan and then you need to follow that plan.
I can't remember if I have recommended these books in the past. They will provide you with a game plan. They are the most highly recommended books on the site. They are "SOS Help for Parents," by Lynn Clark. and "love and Logic" by Fay and Cline. They take slightly different approaches to discipline so its worth checking both out.
But the most important thing is to figure out why he is "rebellious". If he does have SIDs, then his rebellion is a very normal function of dealing with the overload on his senses. And just punishing him for what he is doing instead of dealing with the problem is going to stop him from doing it. In fact, it may make it worse. And, of course, I'm not sure you know what the problem is (I sure don't - yet). That was one reason I asked about school. Unfortunately, the problems you mentioned sounded a bit typical for this age group at this time of the year.
Do you get any written complaints from the teacher during the year where she was more specific?
Teacher complains that he has trouble following instructions, he back talks. One thing he does is he stays at the schools playground with another classmate instead of heading directly to the classroom when they arrive from the bus. Her last call was regarding graduation event rehearsals, he wouldnt cooperate. in short his behavior is rebellious.
At home my husband has fought at lot lately with him, in an attemptto win more authority. As of me Im setting boundaries but with a calmer, more patient approach. This couple of days he is nicer to me, but his father today asked him to pick up a shoe and he slammed it on the floor. I already spoke with my husband about setting a good example with his own calm spproach. Ive tried for years to control my sons behavior, not being able to fully calm him down. On one side im hopeful because i,ve done a great effort, but on the other i question what have i done wrong. Im impatient on what the future might holdif he continues to get in trouble every single step of the way.
At home my husband has fought at lot lately with him, in an attemptto win more authority. As of me Im setting boundaries but with a calmer, more patient approach. This couple of days he is nicer to me, but his father today asked him to pick up a shoe and he slammed it on the floor. I already spoke with my husband about setting a good example with his own calm spproach. Ive tried for years to control my sons behavior, not being able to fully calm him down. On one side im hopeful because i,ve done a great effort, but on the other i question what have i done wrong. Im impatient on what the future might holdif he continues to get in trouble every single step of the way.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Congratulations on taking a course for yourself. I have never quite understood the idea of putting a child in a class (like the social skills class) and not also getting the parents involved. If a behavior modification is going to work it has to be practiced at home to. Not something that is done just during a class.
Do check out the sensory forum.
I am curious as to the problems he is having at school. Many times the difference between what is happening at school and at home can help narrow down the solutions. So lately, what would you say his teachers biggest complaints are?
Do check out the sensory forum.
I am curious as to the problems he is having at school. Many times the difference between what is happening at school and at home can help narrow down the solutions. So lately, what would you say his teachers biggest complaints are?
I'll tell you, we've been doing OT for 4 years. LOL Tactile defensiveness did get better for my son but he still has it regarding clothes at times. The more regulated his sensory/nervous system, the better he can cope with the uncomfortable tactile defensivenss. I have some games and things you can play if you are interested and we have a sensory forum now!
Hi thank you for your answers. Yes, we live in mexico. My son is about to graduate from kindergarden and start 1st grade. School reports that academically he is on track. Teacher says his issues are regarding his behavior. He was in OT for 3 mo we didnt see any changes whatsoever. OT said that he might have some sort of tactile defensiveness but that we also needed to work a lot on setting boundaries. She said that o. Group therapy might be better and suggested a place where we didnt go. We hadnt seen any changes, so thought we might as well be wasting our money.
For the last 6months he went to a sicial skills class in the afternoon with some other kids. No important changes regarding his behavior still.
As of your question, yes we do have access to all sort of e books.
another thing we did is I went to therapy myself for a discipline program. While I was there school psychologist called and said he was doing better. I,m planning on going back.
For the last 6months he went to a sicial skills class in the afternoon with some other kids. No important changes regarding his behavior still.
As of your question, yes we do have access to all sort of e books.
another thing we did is I went to therapy myself for a discipline program. While I was there school psychologist called and said he was doing better. I,m planning on going back.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Hi Lis, welcome back. Hopefully, if you are willing to spend some time with us. We can help.
Your son really does sound like he has SID problems and I think that specialmoms questions are on track about the OT therapy you got.
I think my first question is - are you still in Mexico? If so and I am not putting down a country that I am pretty familiar with - but I am not sure that their OTs necessarily have the training to help. SIDS is a fairly new thing, and other countries are not always up to date on the latest stuff. And more importantly as specialmom said - it has to be an ongoing thing. A couple of sessions here and there won't do anything.
Also, a number of the replies to your first post have disappeared for some reason (?) - so I am not sure of what info was offered to you.
I think there are maybe two issues here. The SID could be one and his behavior not related to the SID would be the other. Either way, we can help.
So - are you still in Mexico? Is he still at home with you all day - or has he started any type of a preschool? If you are in Mexico - can you order books via Amazon? Oh, and have you gone on line to check out SIDs and its symptoms, etc. Keep in touch - we can help!
Your son really does sound like he has SID problems and I think that specialmoms questions are on track about the OT therapy you got.
I think my first question is - are you still in Mexico? If so and I am not putting down a country that I am pretty familiar with - but I am not sure that their OTs necessarily have the training to help. SIDS is a fairly new thing, and other countries are not always up to date on the latest stuff. And more importantly as specialmom said - it has to be an ongoing thing. A couple of sessions here and there won't do anything.
Also, a number of the replies to your first post have disappeared for some reason (?) - so I am not sure of what info was offered to you.
I think there are maybe two issues here. The SID could be one and his behavior not related to the SID would be the other. Either way, we can help.
So - are you still in Mexico? Is he still at home with you all day - or has he started any type of a preschool? If you are in Mexico - can you order books via Amazon? Oh, and have you gone on line to check out SIDs and its symptoms, etc. Keep in touch - we can help!
Hi there. Well, I wonder when you tried occupational therapy, what you mean by it didn't work. we've been in OT for 4 years now and things have improved along the way, but sensory is an issue that doesn't just disappear. You have to keep on it and keep working on it. My son is now 8, and many things are much much better or he can utilize coping skills that he's been taught when things are still hard for him. At 5, he still had trouble with them even while going to OT. Brushing did help him though.
did your OT specialize in sensory and was he diagnosed with sensory integration disorder/tactile defensiveness??
Anyway, my son also has this issue with clothes. I accept that things don't feel good to him. I pick my battles. He's not worn jeans for 2 years to school. He wears athletic pants. (nice looking ones.:>)) I also have found things that look like khakis that are soft material and built like sweat pants. He'll wear those. If you live in the US, Kohls department store is a good place to find sweat pant style pants that look like regular dress pants and they are pretty cheap. Then on occasions when he has to dress up, I can get him to do so because it isn't every school day. My boy does not like how jeans feel on his skin. I can live with that.
And when I find something he likes and it looks good, I buy 5 of them.
We also learned in OT various coping strategies and behavioral techniques that help my son. Did your OT try any of these type of things?
did your OT specialize in sensory and was he diagnosed with sensory integration disorder/tactile defensiveness??
Anyway, my son also has this issue with clothes. I accept that things don't feel good to him. I pick my battles. He's not worn jeans for 2 years to school. He wears athletic pants. (nice looking ones.:>)) I also have found things that look like khakis that are soft material and built like sweat pants. He'll wear those. If you live in the US, Kohls department store is a good place to find sweat pant style pants that look like regular dress pants and they are pretty cheap. Then on occasions when he has to dress up, I can get him to do so because it isn't every school day. My boy does not like how jeans feel on his skin. I can live with that.
And when I find something he likes and it looks good, I buy 5 of them.
We also learned in OT various coping strategies and behavioral techniques that help my son. Did your OT try any of these type of things?
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