5 year old with temper tantrums

[mscott57]

We have a 5 year old girl who has been tantruming out of control for 2 years.  We've seen a psychologist and it did no good.  When she doesn't get what she wants, she screams.  When we say no, she flips out.  When her sister takes her toy, she screams at her and scares her.  When I am not directly interacting with her, she screams or makes noises to get my attention.  Time outs do not work.  Positive reinforcement doesn't work.  Spanking does not work. We send her to her room to calm down, but sometimes it takes an hour.  We often spend entire days at home, waiting for her to calm down enough to do something.  We can't take her anywhere, she has tantrums.  Help.

[mscott57]

I know!  I truly believe that she is doing it intentionally sometimes.  Today we were at the neighbors and she was not listening to me (neither was the neighbor girl listening to her mother) and when we finally left, I asked her if she thought she behaved well.  She said "no".  I asked her what she did that was wrong, and she told me --- specific incidents.  So if she knows what she is doing is 'bad', why is she doing it????

[RockRose]

Interesting,  "pretend".    Very insightful comment,  she probably experiences "real" tantrums where she is really truly angry,  and now she's doing them "pretend".  It sounds like she's about to turn a corner in controlling herself - becuse she even admitted it!

Best wishes.

[mscott57]

That sounds like a great idea.  If she could see herself, she'd know how it looks to us -- and to other children.  I think I will talk to my husband about that.  She said the funniest thing to me yesterday (a good day) -- she said "mom, I had a really good day except for that PRETEND temper tantrum when I didn't want to go inside".  So she really DOES know what she is doing....hmmmm?

[RockRose]

mscott,  I think she has a really good shot at being fine in kindergarten.  

I don't get it,  but I've seen it in enough friend's kids to know this can happen.   There's some dynamic where she feels completely free to just vent and act crazy and angry at home,  but I bet she'll keep it in check in school just as she did in preschool.

At this point,  you may want to try video feedback.  The way you do that is you set up a camera (or two if you have them) and tell her that after she has a tantrum llike this,  she can watch it with you together and see if she can think of ways to calm herself down before it gets too bad.  Say this without emotion,  just matter of factly like you'd introduce a cure for poison ivy or something.  Watch the video together WITHOUT YOUR COMMENTS,  and not in a punishing way,  but just "let's watch the video and see if you can think of things that would help".  LET HER DO ALL THE COMMENTING.  Just seeing it will make a huge impression on her.

Anyway,  I have a friend who pioneered this for patients with head injuries and bizarre behaviors,  and it does work quite often.

Best wishes.

[mscott57]

She was in preschool last year.  No problems at all -- they never called home.  We asked how she was doing, and they said "she's a talker" and that she and this other friend often play rough and "fight", but nothing really out of the ordinary for a 4 year old.  They commented that she is bossy on her final evaluation and needs to mature socially, but again, no red flags from her teachers (both veteran teachers).  

I am home with the kids all day during the summer until about 6:30pm, dh is home on Fridays with us.  When my 2 year old naps, she and I always do something special -- paint, draw, crafts, whatever she wants.

We have tried to give her lots of individual one-on-one time sometimes me, sometimes dad.  She behaves much better then, of course, but it is always short lived.

We are so worried about Kindergarten!  Maybe preschool worked because it was only 1/2 days.....

[RockRose]

Has she ever been in a structured playschool or was she in kindergarten last year?

[margypops]

When she has the big tantrums I agree you dont want the younger child to copy, is there a way you can take her from the room kind of seperate them till she is calm, and you say she gets more of the attention,well maybe its the opposite and she is demanding it too much, if she gets out of control then it is time out keep doing it, and make her stay there , its a tough one when there are 2, dos she go to school how is she there,I guess its better when she is there as she is kept busy , Have you tried to distract her and make sure she has a lot of activitys. Get Dad involved let him have her some one to one time then swop and you do the same, I will keep thinking!

[mscott57]

Everything you suggest is right, but we've already done it all.  Of course we try to distract her, but she's no dummy.  Time outs do not work -- we've tried them ad nauseum, in the corner, on a chair, on the step, in her room you name it! We have tried to put her back quietly (did that for about 2 months, sometimes she'd sit there for hours and never calm down)

She gets more attention than her younger sister, that's for sure as well.  Our 2 year old will sit and play by herself while we jump through hoops to "spend time with" our 5 year old.  She gets so much more one on one time than her sister that we actually feel guilty that we are not spending time with the other.  

Her trigger for tantrums is one word -- "NO".  We ignore as much as possible but she becomes uncontrollable and I don't want her sister to start copying her!!

Thanks for the reply -- any other suggestions?  

[margypops]

Have you tried distracting her before it gets out of hand, also a lot of these behaviors you can ignore and not react to, as she has a younger sibling it is possible there is jealousy issues, spanking does not work positive time outs have been shown to work, place a chiar somewhere quiet , tell her you are putting her on the chair in time out until she is quiet and sorry, she will get off the chair quietly put her back, over and over if you have to,yes it is tiring,no speaking to her no reaction as that is what she wants, when she has sat there for a few mins and is quiet ,give her a big Hug.Reading your post again it does read as if she needs more activitys and Fun to do with you or her Daddy, some one to one time for her, she probablyis feeling left out , as does happen a lot when a new Baby comes along.