6year old school, lying, and respecting woman issues

[rgcoasty]

My six year old boy has been with me and my 2 year girlfriend. He sees his bio-mother once a year for summer. this year he started kindergarden. he is having a lot of trouble being quite during learning time. He got in trouble for talking once and started throwing a huge fit. it was so bad that the councelor had to carry him out of the class and sit with her for the rest of the day. I ask him what he gets in trouble for a t school and he give the same answer everytime, as if he just says what is the easyest for him. when i know that he isn't telling what really happened i feed him a bit of the truth and give him the chance to tell the truth. but everytime he says he cant remember. I seem to get the same answer for everything " I can't remember". it drives me nuts cause he can remember everything else about the day but what he got in trouble for. When i ask him why he gets in trouble he allways says " I don't know". It's worse than getting teeth pulled to get anything out of him.

When it comes to respecting females: First anytime a female talks to him he is off in la-la land. He give generic answers, and can't repeat anything that he is told. But he will hold attention to me when i talk to him, yet he still gives me generic answers to everything. his teach is a woman and he is allways getting in trouble for not listening to her when she gives him simple instruction. I think this has something to do with his mother not being around. Is he just mad at her for not being in his life and taking it out on woman?

I have tried getting through to him by talking to him, yelling at him, spankings, the corner, groudings, and now im seeing if taking all his things away except for the very basic needs. I took ALL his toys, picture clothes, picture drinking cups, and even his special spiderman tooth brush. he has been told that he is to earn everything back if he wants it. He seemed to be upset about it. the day after the big blow out at school i took everything, the next day he was very good and got back his crayon  (small things first big thing at the end of a good week). But the very next day he gets in trouble again at school. so he lost his crayons and back to having nothing. I hope the having to earn things will work.

I'm at my wits end! he seems to want to be a good kid. I want him to be a good kid, i almost just feel like giving up and let life work its self out. maybe i'm asking to much from him, maybe this is natural, but he can be better, he seems to care sometimes, i just dont feel that he is the happyest kid, probly cause he is in trouble all the time. i want him to have fun while he is young and he is getting the chance cause i have to disicpline him 5 of 7 days of the week.

Im open to anything to he him on the right chance so plaese send the advice!!!!!!

[Sandman2]

   Congratulations - actually double congratulations!!

[rgcoasty]

well thanks to everyone that posted on this issue. after a meeting with his teacher and long talks about his behavior. i think things got through to him. he has been earning his toys, special cups, picture shirts ect.. back. he has gone 6 weeks with only two bad days at school and the rest have been good and sometimes great. i have stopped punishing him for things he did at school and simply just talk about them to him and explain that he needs to be better. his attention span is still low but i think it is normal for his age. as for the respecting woman i think alot of it is that there wasn't enough stablility in his life with women. i explained that my girlfriend is here to stay and he has to learn to to show that he likes her by being respectful. as a matter of fact we just  got enguaged today. things have been good, and some of the credit goes to the people that responded. i guess reaching out over the internet can result positive. thank you!

[Sandman2]

  I apologize.   When I read your post to benjimom where you said, "Rgcoastsy wrote of the the problems with his 6 year-old in a past and continuing manner, clearly, the school has had no success. I commend your use of therapy. "  I thought you were referring to the discipline methods of Rgcoasty.  If you were referring to benjimoms ideas, I sincerely apologize.
  And I do certainly agree with you when you said, "Sorry, I just know of too many instances of decisions made by educators that were questionable at best."   Too many times the schools throw it back at the parents when at that particular developmental level, the school is the best way to change a particular behavior.
   Essentially, my whole point was for a parent, "To punish a kindergarten child for school actions is making the situation so much worse!"  My very strong feelings on that subject caused me to misread your post.  I am sorry.

[a_182cm_elf]

For god sakes, you acted as though I said "spare the rod, spoil the child." I did not suggest flogging the kid or putting him in stocks. I suggested talking and counseling. Discipline can be something as simple as talking to the child to get their feelings on the matter, school etc. I also, suggested counseling. Also, I can tell you that things were once considered by teachers and educators to be the norm have come and gone. Take learning styles for instance. Six years old is old enough to begin to understand wrong from right, and every child is different. Finally, if this school was really so adept at dealing with this situation, why did he not write with some of the school's suggested courses of action? Why did the school not make a statement about similar experiences with other kids of divorcees? Why has he not written a statement of progress? You say give the school a chance. Maybe you're correct. I'd say they won't succeed without external help and or the child growing out of it as he makes friends. Sorry, I just know of too many instances of decisions made by educators that were questionable at best, some of which can be found on the web. Since the very word discipline is not limited to punitive measures, source, Merriam-Webster, why fair sir, did you not ask what me what I meant when I used the word “discipline” instead of writing a post in which you felt it necessary to say, “I did not mean to come down so hard?”

Definition
Discipline: In its most general sense, discipline refers to systematic instruction given to a disciple. To discipline thus means to instruct a person to follow a particular code of conduct "order..."  Wikipedia

[gjayme31]

I thought I might post the symptoms of post traumatic stress incase you feel it can still be treated.

Re-experiencing the traumatic event
Intrusive, upsetting memories of the event
Flashbacks (acting or feeling like the event is happening again)
Nightmares (either of the event or of other frightening things)
Feelings of intense distress when reminded of the trauma
Intense physical reactions to reminders of the event (e.g. pounding heart, rapid breathing, nausea, muscle tension, sweating)
PTSD symptoms of avoidance and emotional numbing
Avoiding activities, places, thoughts, or feelings that remind you of the trauma
Inability to remember important aspects of the trauma
Loss of interest in activities and life in general
Feeling detached from others and emotionally numb
Sense of a limited future (you don’t expect to live a normal life span, get married, have a career)
PTSD symptoms of increased arousal
Difficulty falling or staying asleep
Irritability or outbursts of anger
Difficulty concentrating
Hypervigilance (on constant “red alert”)
Feeling jumpy and easily startled
Other common symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder
Anger and irritability
Guilt, shame, or self-blame
Substance abuse
Depression and hopelessness
Suicidal thoughts and feelings
Feeling alienated and alone
Feelings of mistrust and betrayal
Headaches, stomach problems, chest pain

Try to anticipate and prepare for PTSD triggers. Common triggers include anniversary dates; people or places associated with the trauma; and certain sights, sounds, or smells. If you are aware of what triggers may cause an upsetting reaction, you’ll be in a better position to offer your support and help your loved one calm down.

[gjayme31]

In Texas our schools are not allowed to use corporal punishment and I wish they could because I agree with ya'll it's kinda hard to punish a kid for something that happened several hours before that he can't even remember.
I'm not a psychiatrist and I sure don't want to scare you but if your child is forgetting the episode it can fall under post traumatic stress disorder or bipolar disorder but not add/adhd. Most people with PTSD show a low secretion of cortisol and high secretion of catecholamines in urine and you can have that test done if you see fit. At his age it's unlikely he will tell you if he has been abused or seen his mother abused or anything because if he is blocking out tantrums it is likely that he blocked out the incident thats caused him to act out.
You may want to ask the teacher what she said before the tantrum started and see if he reacts to those specific words in the future. Bipolar tantrums are triggered by specific words and they will trigger a tantrum every time they are said.

[Sandman2]

  First see my remarks to a_182cm_elf on punishing a child for his actions at school.
  Second, you say, "it drives me nuts cause he can remember everything else about the day but what he got in trouble for."  This is not that unusual.  If he is a child who has been getting disciplined for stuff he has done wrong at school, why would he want to fess up to more discipline.  Also if he has something like ADHD, he WON'T be aware of a lot of the stuff he does because it happens so instantly.  I worked with a lot of the kids on the playgrounds who would do stuff I saw and when asked "why" or "did you do it", they just gave me this blank look.  And I saw them do it.  I finally learned to quit asking "why" and dealt with the consequences and the future.
  You seem to think he disrespects females because, "he is off in la-la land. He give generic answers, and can't repeat anything that he is told."  That is not disrespecting females.  That is much more like a learning disability or just being a typical 6 year old.  At his age you don't really learn to disrespect females by being around them.  You learn it by being around other people who disrespect females.
  So on to your kid.  What do you do.  Most important - you only punish him for what he does at home.  Not at school.  At home work with him and support him.  Model behaviors at home that will help him at school.  You really only mentioned one thing that he did wrong at school, so its kind of hard to give more specific advice here.  My main advice is to quite asking him what he did wrong.  Ask him about his day!  Then start communicating with his teacher.  She can tell you what is going on and what she is doing about it.  Ask her if there is anything  you can do to help.  (If she says to punish him at home, then find a new teacher as quick as you can!)    It may well be that he is still having problems changing from a loose summer schedule to the school schedule, and this whole thing may blow over.  
   The thing I am puzzled about is that you said, "I have tried getting through to him by talking to him, yelling at him, spankings, the corner, groudings, and now im seeing if taking all his things away except for the very basic needs. I took ALL his toys, picture clothes, picture drinking cups, and even his special spiderman tooth brush."   I am hoping that this was because of some things he also did at home?  There is no way that should happen for school actions.  So what was he doing at home?  You might want to look into getting the book (in fact I highly recommend it), "SOS Help for Parents," by Lynn Clark.  It will give you highly effective ways to work with your child.  By now it should be occurring to you that your ways don't seem to be working so its probably worth trying something that will really work.  
    Finally, if he is having the same problems at school and at home in terms of behavior, then you need to look at the causes.  Of course one thing that is mentioned a lot is something like ADHD.  Even though from your brief description of what he is doing, it doesn't sound like it - here is a good site for future reference.
http://www.healing-arts.org/children/ADHD/
      And I do like what rockrose said.  Any child needs love and stability!  Best wishes.  Please post if you have any other questions.

[Sandman2]

As a retired elementary school principal, I would like to add my two cents.  You are way off base for this age group of kids.  First you say that the school has not had success with the kid.  He is in kindergarten!  He has just started school.  The school is just beginning to go through the process of working with him.  
  Second, I agree with Benjimom completely.  At this age level, to discipline a child at home for something they did 4,5 or 6 hours earlier is almost cruel and unusual punishment.  For children of this age, consequences have to be immediate and consistent.  Yes, you can model expected behavior at home.  If the child breaks rules at home, he should be immediately disciplined.  When you start disciplining a child at home for something he did at school, you are taking away from him his one safe spot.  Now, don't get me wrong.  I am all in favor of the home getting involved is a childs actions at school.  But it has to be age appropriate.  Probably starting around 3rd grade for example.  Really depends on the kid.  It also depends on if the child is misbehaving or has something like ADHD which means they can't really control a lot of what is going on.
  Anyway, didn't mean to come down so hard.  But to punish a kindergarten child for school actions is making the situation so much worse!

[RockRose]

He's 6 years old,  and you're ready to give up on him and let his life work itself out.

Buddy,  you're just barely out of the starting gate with this child.  He doesn't have a stable home,  he sees his mother during the summer and you and your girlfriend during the school year and you're ready to throw up your hands and let him deal with life his own way.

Wait til he's 13,  and you're in juvy with him  for the 5th time before you roll your eyes and fantasize about  giving  up on him - which seems certainly where he is headed with his structure and support.    Then you can say you want to give up.  But DON'T even give up then.  

He's a little bitty kid.  He's a KINDERGARTNER.  He needs to know that you are with him til the very end,  that he's your first priority,  not your girlfriend,  that you will be right next to him every single step of the way.

I'm sorry to sound so harsh,  but this child just needs love and stability, and not a dad who is on the verge of giving up in kindergarten.  

[a_182cm_elf]

benjimom wrote "I discipline at home for things that happen at home and with me.  FOr things that happen at school, I allow them to punish the child."

Happy to hear that you are succeeding with your kids. All I can say is that which works great for you and your kids has to fail with some kids. In example, that which succeeds with 90% of most kids will fail with 10% of kids because kids are all individuals. Some kids are inherently rebellious at an early age, especially boys, and so school discipline might not be enough, a reason for parent teacher conference. Reread what has been written by Rgcoasty and you’ll see that neither he nor the school has had success with this child, nor does his appear to be a common problem, so clearly we are outside the realm of the normal, hence my questions and suggestions and my thinking that the school needs parental help. Maybe the boy needs a therapist. Best of luck Rgcoasty! Let us know how it goes.

[benjimom]

I discipline at home for things that happen at home and with me.  FOr things that happen at school, I allow them to punish the child.

[a_182cm_elf]

by benjimom Quote, " Let school handle the discipline at school and then you discipline separtely at home. Personally, I never have found spanking at home, taking away toys, etc to be very helpful in handling school issues, esp in a younger child..."

Why would you leave it up to just the school to handle discipline. Rgcoastsy wrote of the the problems with his 6 year-old in a past and continuing manner, clearly, the school has had no success. I commend your use of therapy.

[benjimom]

Let school handle the discipline at school and then you discipline separtely at home. Personally, I never have found spanking at home, taking away toys, etc to be very helpful in handling school issues, esp in a younger child.  My son had a terrible year last year in kindergarten and it went from bad to worse.   I am not sure to this day what caused it honestly.  He's doing a lot better this year.  I have had him in occupational therapy and he still does some things, but overall his behavior is SO much better, he doesn't have the fits, etc.  I remember one time he had to be carried out of the classroom by the principal.  

Is it possible you could have a conference w/the teacher and maybe someone else at the school to set up a plan to deal with these behaviors,etc?  

[a_182cm_elf]

With all due respect, do you really think that a forum of lay people can help you with this issue? Beats me! Does the start of school follows his visits with his biological mother? What's the relationship between  this boy and his biological mother? Is there a relationship (physical appearance, mannerisms etc) between the biological mother and the school staff? What is the relationship between the child and your girlfriend of two years? Is there a relationship (physical appearance, mannerisms etc) between your girlfriend of two years and the school staff? Have you considered counseling? If the relationship between your girlfriend of two years and this boy is good, have you considered letting be a part of the counseling that takes part between you and the boy? Have you and her talked to this boy at school? Dido if this is more applicable to mom. If all of the foregoing is inapplicable or bears no fruit, again, I'll ask, have you considered counseling?