8year old son can't-be-bothered attitude

[yarik]

Hello All
Absolutely desperate for some ideas and help.
I have 8 ,6 and 4 years old boys. All healthy and good boys with no particular issues, but....
My 8 year old having great difficulties to concentrate and be able to listen steady and still without fiddling with a pencil, knocking the chair with his shoe, curling his hair, etc. This disrupts his ability to hear whats been said and also it is distractive for other around him. He is very capable in terms of learning and knowledge, but lately, his attitude ''well, ok then; so what; i don't know" lets him and all of us down very much. We swapped school for more consistent and better one. He settled in extremely well, made lots of friends and never suggested wanting to go back to the old one, so his non- listening is not related to settling in, nor the new teacher, as he loves and respects her. No problems in the family.
Teacher and us parents can go over and over same explanation or reasoning for something in particular. For example, teacher asked him, not to get up and walk out of the classroom without asking her permission, he agreed, yet 6 month he is doing that still. It is almost like speaking to the wall- no expressions on his face, no reaction, no response and no improvement. He gets very frustrated with us for repeating everything 100 times and lashes out, he became quite angry lately and answer back all the time (only to us- parents and his brothers), he started to be nasty with his brothers, tricking them into troubles and undermining. I do cry every Saturday from his behaviour, as this is the only day they are off school and i spent all day with boys. Our family is on verge... My son's ignorance  and so-what attitude pulled us all apart, younger two, watching their eldest brother being rude, do the same and this seems like never ending. I hate saying that, but so many times I just wanted to walk out
I am not sure if this is some sort of syndrome or purely behaviour. I feel awful, as I do understand he is not happy too. He is always talked to about same stuff and explained the reasons why we ask him to do certain things. I can see he is fed up and unhappy. But we have tried everything possible to resolve this. Now his teacher is very concerned as his grades dropped drastically. He simply isn't receptive. He'd sit and listen in the class for 5 min and then switches to scribbling something on the paper or else. When asked the questions, he is unable to answer, cos he heard only whats been said during the first 5 minutes. Same with homework, same at all clubs.
If you have some ideas , please share
Many thanks

[Sandman2]

   I do realize that this is upsetting.  But think how upset you would feel, if this had gone on for several more years and he was being punished for things that he had no control over.
  I am not sure what state (or country) you are in.  Schools can be helpful, but they are very slow.  And frankly, by now, his teacher should have figured out that something was going on -  Kids don't just walk out of class - and gotten some help.  I can show you how to force schools to assess (if you are in the US), but going outside the system is much faster.
  The main thing is to find somebody that has experience with ADHD.  The tough thing is that the hyper kids (predominantly hyperactive-impulsive type: (ADHD-HI) tend to get the attention because they are so easy to diagnose.  ADD or  redominantly inattentive type: (ADHD-I) is harder to recognize (so maybe I shouldn't be so judgmental on the teacher).
   Yes, you can self refer him.  You find a doctor, call them up, and make an appointment.  But that also can involve insurance choices and I don't know how your plan works. But, given the choices I would go first with a pediatric psychiatrist, then a regular psychiatrist, then a psychologist.  A pediatrician would be my last choice (unless, they specialize in ADHD), but they would be better then a regular GP.   Google the doctors and see what specialties they list,  By the way, you can google ADHD doctors in (put in your city name) and you would be surprised what pops up.  Of course, the city probably has to be kind of bigger I would guess.  By the way, I would make print out this link - http://www.help4adhd.org/en/about/what/WWK8
    and give it to his teacher.  For two reasons.  The teacher needs to understand what is going on.  And any good doctor should send a questionnaire to the teacher for their opinion.  It helps if the teacher has a clue as to what is going on.
  I have many links to material that will help both you and his teacher (assuming he does have ADD.)  But for starters, I would highly recommend that you buy the book, "The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley.  Its around $12 on Amazon.
  I do hope this helps.  You might want to also check out this link-
      http://www.addadult.com/add-education-center/famous-people-with-adhd/
  Hopefully, it will make you feel better.   Let me know how I can help.  Keep in touch.  Best wishes.

[yarik]

Hiya, it is very upsetting to be realising that ADHD may be an answer. The first  option applies by all points and with the second one, I can pick one or may be two. I have been reading all about ADHD all evening now and it is just all so relevant and familiar.  Would you know who is the best person to get in touch to have him assessed? My GP is pretty useless... Can I self refer him? Thank you for your time

[yarik]

Hi and thank you for your time. The problem with him began just before he turned 7. School was concerned yea was chatting in class too much and would do this repeatedly, despite teacher told him off several times. His home time was always a bit of a humble for me, but I seemed to have been managing OK-ish. This academic year, new school, new issues. He isn't listening in the class. Teacher is concerned, as he is very able, but not performing well. Numerous remarks at school from her, don't do anything. And home, now I am really struggling to get him focused. He seems to be starting hundred things at time, but then get bored and leave them and walk away. You ask about is routine.. He is quite busy with all the activities and every day after school. On the top he does extra day of the foreign school on Sun. Do you recon, it is all to do with freedom??? I even suspect ADHD, as I can't think of anything else anymore. However it pains me to say that, as he can be a fantastic, caring and helpful. I also have noticed his best behaviour, when his brothers are not around

[Sandman2]

    This behavior sounds pretty familiar to me as I am also the CL on the ADHD forum.   Do the following things seem like things that he is doing?
      

ADHD predominantly inattentive type: (ADHD-I)

    Fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes.
    Has difficulty sustaining attention.
    Does not appear to listen.
    Struggles to follow through on instructions.
    Has difficulty with organization.
    Avoids or dislikes tasks requiring sustained mental effort.
    Loses things.
    Is easily distracted.
    Is forgetful in daily activities.

ADHD predominantly hyperactive-impulsive type: (ADHD-HI)

    Fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in chair.
    Has difficulty remaining seated.
    Runs about or climbs excessively.
    Difficulty engaging in activities quietly.
    Acts as if driven by a motor.
    Talks excessively.
    Blurts out answers before questions have been completed.
    Difficulty waiting or taking turns.
    Interrupts or intrudes upon others.

ADHD combined type: (ADHD-C)
Individual meets both sets of inattention and hyperactive/impulsive criteria.
    
     And by the way, if he does have ADHD, then he does need to be moving to concentrate.  Forcing him to stay still in his chair will actually make him lose focus more.
    So take a look at the list above and tell me what you think.  
This list was taken from this site and you may want to read more info from this site.  The site is - http://www.help4adhd.org/en/about/what/WWK1

[RockRose]

yarik,  I sense he is like my oldest son,  who has turned out very well.

What he's being asked to do is too boring and meaningless, and he also sees no purpose in the pointless senseless rules.  

My guess is,  he does follow rules like don't throw rocks at other people,  don't run out in to traffic,  don't snatch someone's hair.  Those rules are all obvious and reasonable rules.

Sit in your chair all day? Ugh.  

How does he do at recess,  or other times when he can play actively and use his imagination?  

Also,  at home on Saturdays,  is he given enough freedom to amuse himself?  All this endless being made to sit still and follow directions must be driving him as nuts as it's driving you.

I'd recommend giving him more freedom to create and explore.

Best wishes.