GRADE 3 SCHOOL BUT MOM THINKS SHE SHOULD REPEAT GRADE 2

I am a single mom with two children with ADD with inattention and hyperactivity difficulties.  Both children were finally diagnosed last May 2008 and were put on Biphentin LC.  As for my 13 year old son he appears to have greatly improved and seems to now be on the right track.  He wouldn't do homework for 40 days and still get b.   As for my 7 year old daughter who will turn 8 the 25th september 2009 I have been struggling.

In Grade 1 I did not feel she was ready for Grade 2 but the school said she was and had a plan to assist her the next year.  The school is great and I couldn't ask for better educational surroundings but again in Grade two dispite remedial and extra attention in a smaller classroom she barely passed.  She was flunking with 52% and when started medication as recommended by both family doctor and school psychologist her grades went up but this following 2 to 3 hours of homework per day for 2 years now and she only had one good spelling test.  The medication seems to have helped her enough that the school is refusing to have her repeat Grad 2 and put her into Grade 3.

Since September 1st, start of school my daughter is angry and very aggressive and revolted at homework time.  She cries, yells, tells me it is too hard even if I am sitting right there with her.  In between sobs she will answer the question after thinking.  She constantly refers to herself as ''stupid'' or ''idiot'' or ''not to smart'' explaining to me that all the other children are smarter than her.  The teacher has addressed other children calling her names.  My daughter also feels that all the other children in grade 3 can write cursive but she can't.  Whether this is true or not needs to be determined but that is her perception.  She is terrified of never getting recesses due to detentions for forgetting her gyme cloth or homework.???  She continually cries that it is too hard this year in >Grade 3 and that she misses 2 sentences because teacher gives her 2 seconds to write and she cannot do it.  She wants to go to Grade 2 but her teacher positively tells her she is to smart for Grade 2.  She just spends 2 to 3 hours just to do the little homework everynight and some nights we can't even get it all done because she cries and is upset so much from her day.

In English before medication in grade 2   went from 60% to 74% (class average 80-84%), French from 68% to 63% (class average 80%), Mathematics from 60% to 74% (class average 84-85%), music, art, religion, 80% and over.  I felt however that she had not had any good spelling tests all year, usually 2 0r 3 on 10.  She had not mastered the works that had been taught the first 3 semesters since she was only medicated in may.

She was referred to the school psychologist in Grade 2 due to important difficulties reading, and writing.Teacher noticed forgetting what learnt recently and difficulty writing, concentrating dispite over 1 hours homework (up to 3 at times).

The Conner's Rating Scale-Revised was used and the questionnaire filled by my daughters teacher.  Also a SNAP-IV filled out by the teacher as well.  The Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children - fourth edition was used to evaluate my daughters intellectual abilities for verbal and non verbal.  These showed important difficulties with inattention, anxiéty, social problems, impulsivity, DSM-IV inattention and DSM-IV total.  The SNAP showed hyperactivity and inattention.

On the WISC-IV a IQ verbale comprehension in the superior catagories with a 93%percentile whatever that means.  An IQ perceptual reasoning very superior catagories with a 99%percentile.  Her General Ability Index (GAI) was very superior catagory with a 98%percentile.  An IQ for working memory average catagory with a 63%percentile and IQ information treatment of average catagory with a 42%percentile.

My daughter is a wonderful young girl.  Loves books, animals, computer animal planet games and as far as I am concerned knows much more that many children on a variety of subject.  She is very smart.  But when it comes to homework, Grade 1 was 1 to 1 1/2 hours just to pass, Grade 2 up to 2 hours homework just to get 1 on 10 on spelling tests.  The teacher last year even started doing in class what I did with my daughter at home.  Instead of looking at 1 right word on 10 I would show her that she only miss 1 letter in the whole word.  She still asks me if b is the belly or the bum (d) and they put her in Grade 3 the 1st september 2009.  Every night tearfully she tells me a story of how much smarter her classmates are compared to her and it is sad.

So my question is twofold.  Since grade 1 I have believed it would be in my daughters best interest to repeat a grade so as to permit her that extra time to really build a strong foundation to better and facilitate her future learning.  Also since she is born in September she started earlier, but the teachers and principle seem to think this is not a justifiable option.  Why?  My daughter feels punished with remedial because others tease her about it and she misses recess or regular time with her classmates who are off doing something else she feels she misses.

The other part of the question is what do you think is the right way?  Let her keep struggleing with her anger and homework another year and wait to see like the school again suggests ?????  She already had an Individual Plan last year.  My daughter goes to bed at 7:30 and reads in her bed if she wishes till 8pm.  She feels she has no play time because too much homework.

Or is it feasable to have her repeat Grade 2 taken out of Grade 3 and placed back as she wishes.  If so if the school refuses does a mother have a right to demand to repeat a year.  Thank you

patsue11

[jdtm]

if the school refuses does a mother have a right to demand to repeat a year.

In my school district, the answer is yes.  You should be able to find out this information by contracting your local PTA or School Council or school superintendent.  Hope this helps ....

[patsue11]

thanks would you hold her back or have her in resource remedial through to grade 6

[Sandman2]

Hi Patsue,
  Lots of things going on here.
Your school sounds very much like the elementary school that I Principaled and taught in for years - ie, a high academic school.  And this kind of school can put a lot of stress on a child.  It might be a very different situation in a district with lower scores.
  The first thing to do - just to eliminate it as a cause - is to check the class size of the second grade teacher.  If her class is maxed out, that may be one of the reasons (maybe the major reason) why the school does not want her to repeat.
  She is young.  Years ago we would counsel against a child starting Kindergarten with a Sept. birthday (especially boys).  Some kids can handle it, a lot can't.  So she certainly is age appropriate for retention.
   When we discussed whether to retain a child, the paramount question was always, "will it help the child."  Some children who were failing were passed on simply because they didn't have the ability to get any better - sad as that sounds. And we were more worried about their emotional state.
   Your daughter has the intelligence to learn.  Her WISC scores are excellent.  And they fall off where one would expect for an ADD child.    One of the earliest clues I would see that would lead me to expect that a child might be ADD or ADHD was their frustration over their classroom experience.  They KNEW they were as smart or smarter then the other kids, yet they couldn't produce.  If this frustration was allowed to build, it was not unusual to see them start to quit or shut down about the time they entered middle school.  This could be a very good reason for retention.
   One other strong reason for retention is that she has the ability to pick up and learn what she has missed.  This will definitely make things easier for her.  She probably will not have much trouble for a few years in reading and English due to her strong verbal skills and the fact she enjoys reading.  What normally gets to kids is the math in about 4th or 5th grade.  If they miss how to do common denominators  due to their AD problems, they are sunk for long, long time.  
   Now if she is on medication that is allowing her to concentrate, this may not be a problem.  And that brings me to the final point.
   There are a lot of positives in retention in this case (assuming there is room).  She wants it (which is huge).  It is also much easier to do now, then say in 4th grade.  She is the appropriate age.  She has the intelligence to benefit from the placement.
    Reasons for not moving her (beside no room).  The school year is still young.  She is remembering what happened to her last year.  The medication looks like it is making a difference, but I doubt that she has been able to internalize that yet.  What she remembers is frustration  and a lot of long hours spent on homework.  She has barely spent two weeks in school and is still figuring out how 3rd grade works.  And 3rd. is typically very different than 2nd. grade.  The students are treated more as grownups in terms of expectations and it isn't the always the wonderful friendly place that K, 1st and 2nd were.  She doesn't know the teacher yet.  She probably entered school dreading it, and I could understand why.    In short, she really hasn't given this year  a chance to work for her.  If she were to stay, some things definitely need to change.
   Not getting recess due to detention is BS.  Demand an immediate change to her IEP.  You cannot penalize a child for their condition and that is what they are doing.  I am sure a lot of that is also due to the teacher not knowing her (and many times they don't even see the IEP for several weeks), and being "tough" with all the kids at the start of the year.  It sounds like she is pulled out of class for special help.  Ya, unfortunately she needs it and there is no way to get around this and still have her catch up.
  Homework time is a biggie.  It is usually the parents (and childs) biggest complaint.  Especially if the child has ADHD.  Talking with your doctor to get medication that is still working when she does homework is huge.  Unfortunately, at this age (since she doesn't stay up late), this means starting homework before dinner.  It may well be that with the new meds you are finding out that her homework time is going down.  But typically in 3rd. grade it goes up a lot compared to 2nd.  You need to find all the little tricks you can think of to make her homework time more comfortable.  Part of this could come with teacher help.  There could be some things that the teacher could overlook or make easier.  The IEP is big here.  That reminds me.  At the end of the year meeting, did they discuss  retention?  That IEP is a legal document and many times people are afraid to make changes if its not mentioned in the IEP.
  So what to do.  First get the books  - "Driven to Distraction" by Hallowell, and "The Gift of ADHD", by Honos-Webb.   And read them.  You've got a long road ahead of you and these will help.
  If it wasn't for her age, I would probably recommend giving this year a trial run for at least a while longer.  If you do so, she will certainly need summer school (and may need it anyway) and maybe things like Kumon math tutoring.  I think that things should get better for her.  But she needs to be convinced of that and she needs to see some changes immediately.  You need to watch how her frustration level goes.  If it stays high, then major changes are probably needed.
   Because of her age, and the info that she lost the last two years with ADD, retention would really work.  I think it is (in a way) the easy way out - but who says we all have to suffer through school.  
   If you were one of my parents, I would recommend continuing through Dec.  Giving it the ole college try, while very carefully monitoring her, and making the changes I recommended.  Come Dec., if things are not going better, then after the winterbreak moving her back to second grade.  I would reread her IEP, and if needed, make changes.    Having said that, I keep thinking, it would be so much easier for her to start over.  Frankly, it would be easier on you too.  Actually, FORGET what I said above.  That would be for a child without ADD or ADHD who is having trouble coping with third grade.  If things don't dramatically change for her in about 2 weeks. I would go for the change.
   You do need to sit down and have a long talk with the principal and maybe the school psychologist.  Let him read your post to us (well, most of it).  Heck, you can let him read mine.  This is not an easy issue because there are a number of factors going on here.  But, it comes down to the kid, and that's what's most important
  By the way, if the second grade classes are full - then everbody has to start getting creative.
  This has been a very long post.  But you put a lot of time and effort into yours and I felt you deserved more than a simple answer.  I have probably rambled a bit.  I know I have certainly changed my thinking back and forth a few times.  Please do let me know how things go. I would love a progress report in a  month or so.
   Good Luck

[patsue11]

There are no summer school here for her language of education, english.

No last year I brought up retention and they said they were promoting her to Grade 3. The school psycholigist said she was top intelligent level and with help would improve.  The teacher she had was fantastic, took time with her to teach her tricks to remember words, ect., and she did improve almost instantly the week after medication was started.  It was like day and night.  She could not sit still for reading or anything.  Now she actually reads long times without stopping and can watch Animal Planet and not here me calling her.  The social worker met with my daughter to help her with her social issues (not too many friends and being bullied and teased)  The school promptly intervened everytime she got bullied and her older brother protects her in the school buses as best he can.

So you change your mind here and there I myself am a yoyo right now.

Today I spoke to the social worker from school who advises against retention saying the children would look at her as the child who got taken out of grade three and put back in grade 2 and this could be difficult for her.  But she is allready getting bugged because she does not know as much as the other children in her class.  He confirmed her classmates can write cursive and not her.  He seemed to suggest an EIP which he felt with remedial and all through elementary.  I freiked.  I would prefer she doubled a grade than be in remedial another 3 years.  He tells me that she may get lazy if retained and not work as hard, and find it harder later.

He suggested I give her 20 minutes per subject of homework time and just have her finish during a detention what she does not finish at home.  I actually tried that tonight and I was astonish she took 46 minutes for all.  My daughter actually read to me where yesterday she said she could not.  Instead of consolling her I repeated to her that her time was running on my cooking timer and if she didn't finish could finish at school tomorrow.  <She called me all kinds of mean names like bad mother ect, but after 30 minutes she just started working without argueing.  WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

My daughter brought home a spelling test with 73% which I thought was fantastic as compared to last years 1 on 10.  My daughter said it was bad because all the other children had a or b and not her.  She always compares herself.

As for EIP I never signed anything. I got the school psychologist report with recommendations made to the teacher.  She was in remedial last year.  The social worker is now talking about an EIP.

The principal is to get back to me with a date to meet with him, teacher, social worker ect..........I requested a meeting to talk retaining but they say she is fine and stressing the importance of remedial and EIP.

I don't know what to think?  Keep sharing so insightful.  I don't know if it is high academic performance school but my son went there through elementary and it is a great all around friendly school.  Good teachers.ect.

Get back to me.teehee

[Sandman2]

you've got a good school going here.  

You asked, " but after 30 minutes she just started working without argueing.  WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? "  I think that she still remembers what it was like doing homework in 2nd grade.  She doesn't yet quite realize what the meds are doing for her.  Basically, its like trying to break the old habit she was in of hating homework cause it was so hard for her.  I think it means that you may have a good system going here and keep it up.  

You need to get an IEP.  It will protect her.  It can prevent things happening to her because some teacher views her differently than last years teacher.

I have had kids who started on medication and it was like switching on the light and they just took off.  I hope this is the case for you.

I can't believe they are learning cursive in 2nd grade now (they certainly haven't learned it in two weeks), but that would explain why she feels behind.  My first thought is hell, teach her how to type.  But cursive can be done and I've got a feeling that she can now pick it up pretty quickly by doing a little bit each day.  Ask if they know of any fun cursive books, they should be out there.  Ps - elementary school is probably the only place she will ever have to use it.

It really sounds like you have a team approach going on here. And it will take a team approach.  This is not something who want to deal with all by yourself.  You need their expertise - and they sound like they have it!  Your social worker has good insight.   Ask him for other homework ideas and ways to make your child feel better.  It sounds like he has dealt with this before, so ask him a lot of questions!  You are very lucky to have that person.  Most schools don't.  And yes, the kids will look at her as the kid who got moved back, but that will pass.  I do worry a bit about her getting lazy.  She sounds like a very sharp child.  I have worked with a lot of very sharp kids and ya know what - the little sweathearts can be very manipulative.  Its not that they mean to be so, its just cause and effect.  Only they can figure out very quickly what is working for them.
   I really do think that she probably can make it through the year in third, and maybe by 5th grade be out of all the remedial stuff.  But it will take some effort on all of your parts.  If the school can provide a lot of support, its possible.   That is one reason why I first recommended to wait and see how things go till the winterbreak.  Plus, I felt that she was remembering what 2nd grade was like and wasn't yet used to 3rd grade.
  Do listen to what the teacher has to say.  Ask her if your daughter is making friends, has people to eat lunch with and play with at recess.  I think that the teacher will now be looking at your daughter a bit differently.  Hopefully trying to get her more involved in the class.  Using her for a helper, etc.
  So what to do.  The IEP is really important.  The meeting with all is important.  Tell them all your concerns.  Ask them what they see happening this year and the next two years.   If nothing else you will have really helped your daughter by making the teacher aware of what is going on and the changes she is going through.  Show them last years failing grades.  They need to know what it was like for her then.
   Finally, and I didn't get into this in my first post.  She really needs help in understanding what ADD  or ADHD is and how it effects her.  She will have this her whole life and she needs to start understanding now what is going on.  In short, I think counseling is very important for her.  Its sounds like the school can provide it.  I would get it written into her IEP.  The fact that she always compares herself shows both competition and intelligence.  You may be able to use that in homework games.  But she needs to understand why in some things kids are doing better then her.  She will find her area of expertise and will do great.  But right now she needs a lot of positive reinforcement.  
   You also need (if you can find the time) to do some research on ADHD.  If both of your kids have it, either you or your ex probably also had it.  You really need to know how it can affect them now and in the future.
  You've got a lot of stuff to do.  At least for the near future, I think I would listen to the school.  Just make sure they are also listening to you!
  Keep me posted.
  

[patsue11]

Yes, I do have one of the best schools here.  I have been reading about parents changing schools and I am lucky that that is not even an option with me.  I am really blessed because no-one at that school is wrong for the children.  The children are always their top priority.

I just accepted a meeting with the school for friday ''to begin a plan of action to help Alicia''.  Is that the IEP?  Does it make a difference?

I think the other classes worked on cursive but maybe not her class because she was in a Grade 1 and Grade 2 last year.  I will go get a fun cursive book and maybe integrate her spelling sentenses in this book and just tape the paper in her lined spelling book.  Think that is a good idea so she can se she can.  She tends the start writing her letters from the bottom vs the top which is probably why cursive is so hard for her.  We tried to get her to reverse but if she thinks of starting at the top she misses out on the next task because it takes her too long.  Love your computer comment.  I WOULD ADD THAT ON THE COMPUTER MIGHTY MATH, ALPHABET ECT SHE IS VERY QUICK AND GOES THROUGH GAMES FASTER THAN HER 13 YEAR OLD BROTHER. The pencil is hard for her.

Yes it is a good team.  Already e-mailed the social worker last nights experience and asked for more tips.  And yes my sweatheart flaps her eyes and knows exactly what to do to get what she wants.

How can I use her competitive and intelligence in homework?  Any idees?

I do feel the school is on only one track pass her, remedial her and all okey and they really believe putting her back will hurt her emotionally and socially.  Their belief is truely based on my daughters well being with no negitive reason.

I probably had that.  In my youth my family moved 8 times therefore changing schools alot.  Every new school brought something that I had not been taught therefore I got behind and behind and got pushed up in elementary.  Finally, they flunked me in Sec 2 but by then I was too old and got so harrassed I dropped out of school.  A dropout until my 30's.  Then I met a great teacher who never told me about anything just gave me tricks on learning in class and I ended up getting my GED and 3 DEC in college with honors in all three.

So this is why I still wonder if it is not better to have her repeat Grade 2.  But were I to wait till December and let them try to do EIP with Remedial how often should remedial be every week for her to catch up before the end of the year?

As far as teaching her about ADD and how it affects her life is this the social worker , psychologist or other.  The only issue I see here is often your child is to be seen one week and gets pushed back a month because too many children in need.  Since both my children are not considered worste case senario's they tend to loose their turn and wait?

This concerns me because if I wait till December and she doesn't get the interventions between now and there than I am right back were I started.  I am also on disability with PTSD from military and not of high income or means to drive everywhere I wish to drive.

Thanks

Patricia Tondreau

[Sandman2]

Hey Pat,
  Sorry I didn't get back to you.  I got busy and the comment got buried in the forum  I am also going to do this in a note to you so you can see how that works.  That way if I miss a message in the forum, it will go to my email.
  How did the Fri meeting go?  It sounds like this is the initial planning for an IEP.  Hopefully you were able to voice your concerns and they listened.  Did you ever find out what the second grade class sizes are?
  Anyway, get back to me and let me know how thinks went.

[patsue11]

Thank you Tried to post note but said error lol

Fridays meeting was an eye opener.  My daughter is reported as being the happy go lucky one with best oral reading.  Slow with spelling and writing but they will do remedial and she is only at Grade 2 French so she will go once a week at recess for tutoring. I also hired a 13 year old teen for two hours on Saterday my daughter loves and she really enjoyed it saterday.  She now wants to stay in Grade 3 saying she has lots of friends.  The psychologist and social worker should be meeting her at school to help her along.  They told me the medication made her jump start and they believe because she is in the 99 percentile she will easily catch up with the medication.

I decided to listen to them and see what happens between now and Christmas.  Hope I made the write decision.  They will be signing an EIP around end october after first evaluations but her remedial will start now.

What is an EIP exactly??????????

I just insisted for one for my son and he is a bit of a pain since school started.  I just took all TV'S and computer out of thebasement where his bedroom is since he way lying to me and watching later than permitted and not getting up.  Hoping the removal of distractions will help him want to help himself and meet the resource team which up to now he refused to meet with.

I guess I have my year cut out for me.  Want to here a funny one.  My son was a tad upset that he could not go isolate himself in the basement (I even wrote a list of improvement on the fridge I expected and one was=''When you want to be part of a family you must be present'')  But he brought his kenex pieces up in the livingroom declaring ''To bad mom this is the family room now.......''  Then he would fart and stink and say ''that's what you have to live with now mom''.

Guess he was surprised when I told him I loved seeing my son and daughter building stuff with their hands.  My daughter was allowed her tv but chose to build.

THEY DON'T KNOW BUT I THINK IT WAS THE MOST FANTASTIC EVENING I HAVE HAD SINCE SCHOOL STARTED I ACTUALY SAW THEM SMILE GIGGLES AND PLAY NICE TOGETHER

patricia

[Sandman2]

Fantastic,  I agree with them, and it should work!
Here is a quick link to IEP's  -
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualized_Education_Program
Love wikipedia.  What the IEP will do for you is to make sure that her teachers and you will always be on the same page (well, at least you will be close).  Usually in elementary school, that's not a big deal cause she only has one or two teachers.  In middle and high school its huge.  And Yes, you definitely want to get one going for your son.
  You are definitely doing all the right things.  Pulling the tv out of your son's room was a great move.  My son never would have gone to bed if he had a tv in his room.  Your son sounds quite intelligent (your daughter too), he will use that intelligence to shape his surroundings to please him.  You might enjoy reading a new book by a UC Berkley honors student with severe  ADHD about growing up with ADHD.  The book is  called - "ADHD and Me,  What I learned from lighting fires at the dinner table," by  Blake Taylor.    Basically, "the Cal freshman tells how he made the ADHD work in his favor."   Two other good books - "Driven to Distraction" by Hallowell, and "The Gift of ADHD", by Honos-Webb.
  The use of a tutor is a great idea.  A high school one for your son might become necessary in math later on.  Algebra can be a whole new world.   You also might see if you son would be interested in earning a few bucks by tutoring your daughter once or twice a week for a short period of time.  It would be good for him. By the way, he sounds like a pretty typical teenager - only he has the intelligence to make life really interesting for you.  That is one reason I recommended the books above.  He might even enjoy the first one.  And ya, you are going to have to set standards for him and sometimes even make him do things (like meet a resource team).  Always explain why, he is old enough to understand what is going on - even if he doesn't agree.  And of course never do it with anger.  The minute he sees that he can get to you - he will. You might also want to monitor the ADHD forum on this site.  You will find some things that apply to you and your kids - and I've got a ton of posts there
   Good luck!  Keep in touch.

[patsue11]

Okey fourth time type this.

My sons profile follows. Sum of Scales Composite  Percentile  Confidence Qualitative
                                              Scores
Verbal Comprehension     41                  122              93         113-128    Superior
Perceptual Reasoning      35                   111             77          102-118   High Ave
Working Memory             15                   86               18          79-95      Low Ave
Processing Speed            26                  118             88          108-125   High Ave
Full Scale                        117                 114            82           108-119  High Ave

Due to my wonderful ex intervention with his son because of these scores my son does not believe he can keep his dream of microbiologist without killing someone with germs.

I asked for an EIP which is to be held Sept 28.  What should «i ask for my son?

Gee I hope it posts this time

Patricia

[patsue11]

Oh my goodness it worked, I cut the post in half fith time I post same thing today

Hi there Sandman tried to post many times always failed.

Anyway my daughter is doing alot better and sticking to a 45 minute routine after school.  We watched Genious Babies tonight!  tee he while building K-Nex

My son seems to have accepted that all TV's and computer disappeared from basement ;yesterday. Spent the evening yesterday rubbing it in.  Tonight he seemed more relaxed but mom did not get half the hugs she usually gets. My son is having a hard time with mom not listening to he can do it himself and insisting on seeing all completed or not work to monitor his homework.  Still has yet to bring all his books home but at least brough 2 homeworks home on 5.  Still forgot EIP consent form in his locker.  Little does he know I emailed concent.  tee hee

So looking at testing above what would you suggest for EIP for a young man that believes he can't do what he wishes with ADD.  I will be calling for trying to find those books of course but forget the internet link got nowhere with it me computer illiterate in training.lol

[patsue11]

Oh yeh, my son wasn't getting no money with .50 cents loosing on bad language. He came home tonight and I told him to check the fridge there was a proposition on it for him.  He told me he would probably refuse.

He came in and took your suggestion and wrote ''Tutor sister 20 minutes per day for her spelling tests maximum $10.00 per week loose .50 cents for each word missed''
Guess what he took the job tonight and it was beautiful.  Told him he picked where and how he tutored and would be paid by ability to succeed.  Hey I had already showed her 10 out of 20 words so he got a head start..lol

He was extatic and I could not believe it.  He took his K-Nex and made a wheel and had her stop the wheel with her finger to guess a letter to a word.  Creative.lol  My son looked like he felt pretty good and proud.............

[91004]

I was reading all the post and thought I might add my friend that is pretty much like a younger sister to me. She was in the slower classes, what do you call it intermedial. She graduated high school and this year tried to apply for college, she couldn't get in because they told her she had to get her GED, even after she spent 4 yrs in high school. We were shocked and it was because she was in the intermedial classes. Just thought I would add that so you could check it out in your area to be sure if that is the route you decide to go with. I know she has a while.

[patsue11]

Thanks,  looked into this she stays in her regular grade and classes but is excused during a period to resource her reading and spelling .  She passes all the exams as other studenss.  Great input that is important to know .  Thanks patsue11

[patsue11]

23rd september 2009

Hi there Sandman, just spoke to the resourse staff person at my son's school and am I ever pissed off.

My son called me collect to tell me he finally approached the resourse and asked for help with his ADD on how to cope with it.  He was crying saying he was not the most severe case and 30 others who did not pass their classes.  Therefore they had to prioritize and he was not a priority because his grades were average and others did not even pass.

I should have expected that of course and I did because that is what they said last year but I agreed to medicate him conditional that he got help with the meds.  I argued and the resourse finally suggested pulling him out of Geography and putting him in Study techniques instead.  She was willing to train an educater to do one on one with my son but could not do the interventions herself because of prioritizing she said.  So one period one on one no guarantee's and the educator would do best they could and the other period in a 10 day cycle he would just be in a group in the resourse room to give him more time to do his assignments.  This is the best she could offer because her resourses were limited and my son not a priority.

I finally get my son to admit he has a problem.  He finally approaches appropriate staff on his own.  Then this is what he gets.

I told her we would discuss this further the 28th of september 2009 at the IEP meeting.  But of course she is not going to tell me what my son needs????????

So to cross my T's and dot my I's what is it exactly my son needs?  Is is psychological, social worker, what so I know what I ought to be asking for him

God Bless

Patsue11

[Sandman2]

     I guess what upsets me about the school's attitude (and I completely understand it), is that because a kid is doing average its kind of ok.  I have had several kids like that and I was watching them go nuts because they knew they should have been doing better.  Why doing average when they should be pulling A's is OK is beyond me.  I had one child that went from straight C's to straight A's.
     Actually, I have a feeling that your son will now be doing much better then Average.    What I worry about is the future and those biology AP courses so he can be a microbiologist.
     What he needs is to first be identified.  So go in with all of your psychologist's reports.  The fact that they were willing to put him into study hall suggests they do see the need.  He may not even need study hall this year.  He needs to be identified.  It is possible that all they will need to do is to monitor him for the remainder of the year.  But once he has the IEP, it means that later on - next year or in highschool, he can be helped when he needs it.  And you won't have to play the waiting game.
  In the IEP, I would ask for more time on tests if he needs it.  Sometimes even taking a test in a less distracting room can be done.  Study Hall is good, if he needs it.  I think for this year that may be all he will need .  He probably is in pre-Algebra and I think that if he is doing his homework he will be able to handle that.  
   I'll do some more thinking and get back to you.  I also do think the school will be pretty helpful.  The whole system sounds like they have their act together (has much as they can given resources).  Congratulate your son.  It's not easy for a 13 year old boy to do what he did.  

[patsue11]

No way not that short a post - what do the tests indicate?  How and what can I work with him if they won't?

My son is now in Secondary 2 (grade 8)

thanks read all posts lol

[Sandman2]

Kids with ADHD typically score high on the verbal stuff (that is more innate intelligence), and lower on things that require memory due to their distraction level.  His perceptual reasoning score is a good indication of mental ability.  Even with the fact you had a great tester (very lucky here), the kids scores usually tend to be lower as they don't test as well.  If your son was on his meds, was motivated, and the test wasn't real long. Then these scores should be pretty accurate.  to me they show a very sharp child.  Probably close to or in the gifted range if ADHD didn't get in the way.  Remember that intelligence is also a cumulative life experience and he probably missed a bit in 5-7th grade.  This is probably the major reason he was identified sooner, he was able to pull good enough grades to keep him from being tested.
   As I said, about two posts ago - he maynot need any help for a while.  You just want to set it up so that he can quickly get the help if needed.  Still think extra time on tests could be important.  I think that with the right knowledge, your son may be able to manage a lot of this himself - which is why I recommended the books.
  Let me know if you need more info.  

[Sandman2]

This is probably the major reason he was identified sooner, he was able to pull good enough grades to keep him from being tested.

OPPPs, I meant ,    that is why he was NOT identified sooner.

[patsue11]

Hey thanks alot, all went well for both childrens IEP.

My son will be seen by the psychologist for educating on testing and what he has, will then be seen by social worker and resource tech to teach him organizing and study methods. He will also get 1/3 xtra time on exams and seperate testing room if needed.  He will be permitted to break during classes which means just stand up and move a bit when he stops focusing.  He brought home an 80% this week.  He will also get written directions for homework with steps and specific directions.  Teachers should now review assignments with him before he hands them in. Not to correct but rather to make sure he did not miss aspects or steps involved in projects or assignments.  I had written psychologist with priority issues and even if they don't usually come at IEP she came so we had a strong basis to make my son a priority and the vice=principle accepted the accomodations.  He will go to study methods instead of geography and one period out of 10 will get individual help with organizing and social help.

My daughter already started remedial french yesterday and loved it.  She also loves her saterday tutering.  She will be followed by psychologist for a bit to help her understand her strengths and weaknesses and what ADD is.  I also found a teen book called my brain needs glasses which is great and my daughter and I and my son read it together.  I also ordered the three books you suggested and they should arive in 15 days since they did not have them here so I special ordered them.  She also started already meeting the school social worker to help her with organizing her homework and organize her studying.

So all in all no  priority issue we seemed to have quashed and got this out of the way when the psychologist told the vice-that my son was at risk for droppout.  Ressource did not forsee this but I confirmed I believed the same so this was actually put in the IEP.  They will also touch self-esteem and depression issues with my son.

Thanks a million

patsue11

[Sandman2]

  What a great psyc you have to show up with you at the IEP.
I like the IEP recommendations, they are right on target.  
  You are very lucky to be in a system that is so supportive- I have seen many reports from people whose school system leave a bit to be desired.
  Hopefully, this will also make the transition to high school much easier.
Good luck to you and both of your kids ! ! !