I am at my wit's end

[andymom]

My 12 year old son, Andy, is stealing, from stores, from me, from friends, and for the second time, from his teacher..and lying about it. We have been dealing with this since he was 4 years old and I honestly have no idea what more I can say to him. We have been through it all...jail time...it's wrong for these reasons..disrepectful...trust issues...everything. And still he does it. When he was a kid, my oldest,DJ, then 8 yrs. old, would get him to do his "dirty work", telling him that "if you go get the cookies, I'll share with you", or whatever else DJ would want. We did what we were supposed to do and punished them. We have taken away privileges, grounded them (at one point, they were grounded the entire year minus 3 weeks!), we've tried positive reinforcement, we've even sold their prized gameboy SPs to pay for things they had stolen. NOTHING has worked.
    I honestly don't think he gets "it". Whenever I ask him "Why?" he always says "I don't know" or just stares at me with this blank look on his face. I'm terrified that it could be something serious like kleptomania. He has ADHD but that is well controlled with his meds...he gets A's and B's in school and good citizenship marks, so I don't think it has anything to do with his ADHD. He's a great kid, otherwise. He's smart, funny, and a great big brother.
    Does anyone have any ideas? I will try just about anything. I've looked into Military schools and special boarding schools for troubled kids but I don't have the kind of money required or good enough credit for assistance.  

[Sandman2]

  Kids with ADHD will steal (the ole no filters response - do it before you have a chance to think about it).  Kids on meds should (I think) be able to control this.  When does the stealing happen?  Is it anytime? - or possibly when the meds began to wear off?  Makes a big difference as to what to do or how to respond.  If the stealing tends to happen later in the day, then maybe the meds are wearing off and that can be adjusted.  If it happens anytime, then its a much tougher ballgame.  Kids of this age do steal - for fun, thrill, etc.  As they mature or as they get caught, it stops.
   Assuming that its not a problem with meds, then I would keep doing what you are doing.  If he is caught (and kinda watch him for having things he shouldn't).  Make him apologize, and then work until he can payback the theft.  Cause and effect.
   Military school is a cop out and probably would teach him worse behaviors.  Essentially you need to be loving, and consistent.  To me the idea is cause and effect - if you do this, then this will happen.  If the meds are not the problem (and I can't stress this enough because it changes everything), then - overtime - he will change.
    By the way the "obligatory "I don't know". " is common with kids.  Its like the ol "that doesn't bother me."  Ignore it.  It doesn't matter (unless, the meds aren't working in which case he really doesn't know),  what matters is that you have a consistent, calm approach to dealing with the situation.

[andymom]

DJ, now 15, had become quite verbally abusive toward Andy and was on the verge of becoming physical with him and me. He also had behavior problems in school which resulted in suspension twice in a 1 month period. He was on his way to being recommended for an alternative highschool when he ran away because he didn't want to get a hair cut. His lying and stealing had stoppped around 14 and was replaced with Conduct Disorder. We thought it would be best for everyone if he went and lived with his father in California. He has been there since February '09 and his relationships with all of us have gotten sooo much better and he's doing better in school.
  I didn't mean for it to sound like DJ was to blame...it started with Andy because DJ but it hasn't CONTINUED because of DJ. That's just it...I have no idea why he still does it. No matter what I say/don't say, do/don't do, it never changes. I have no idea where to look for help. He had been in therapy before and all he does is sit there and say nothing or the obligatory "I don't know".

[margypops]

What happened to DJ has he no part in the behavior of the younger son, reading your post it does sound as if your younger boy has learned from his elder brother, what is the relationship like now ? it reads as if he gets all the blame .

[RockRose]

At one point,  Andy is the one causing the problems,  then in the middle of your post you branch out to "they",  and by the end it's just Andy.  What happened with DJ?  Did he stop stealing somehow?

I found this link about possible meds for Kleptomania.  It does sound like it's a mood disorder - maybe as he gets older this might be of interest.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/kleptomania/DS01034/DSECTION=treatments-and-drugs