am I wrong?

[foam970fed002]

I just have a quick question. I have 5 children and 3 of them have severe behavior problems like not listening, lying, stealing and so on. When we moved in together, we were short one bed. so we aired up our air mattress for one of them, and told them that if they jumped on it, they could get hurt and we'd have to take the beds. Well they kept jumping on them, almost not stop, and it seems as tho they only jump on the airbed... or I've only caught them on that one anyways. I didn't want to take their beds, but since I had already threatened many times I couldn't go back on my word, so I took their beds. all but the babies bed. They've only been without a bed now for about 5 days, they don't seem to care that they don't have beds anymore. Finally one of the kids has shown that she deserves her bed back, so she got it tonight. The others have to proove to me that they can respect the furniture in the house... Was it wrong of me to take their beds? They will get them back hopefully by the end of the week... a couple more days. But they have to learn not to jump on them.

About 6 months ago at the old house, one was jumping on the bed, fell into the door knob and got 7 staples in the head. I don't want it to happen again... but I didn't know what else to do.

For some reason my family thinks that it's morally wrong that I took their beds, and they haven't gotten them back yet... but soon they will... just a couple days of listening and doing what they are told is all I ask for.

So, was I wrong? any oppinions?

[PaperMoon3]

How can they "steal fruit" in the morning?  Are they eating it for breakfast? If the fruit is in the house they should be able to eat it if they want. Maybe try fixing them a good solid filing breakfast like oatmeal and no sugary cereals for them and let them eat fruit if they want it, just keep the candy and junk away form them. Wow it seems like there's just so much wrong in this whole situation you guys need a completely new system of running your home! You do need to all supernanny! LOL! :D I feel for you, you just have to find some kind of way to get a handle on things before they get bigger, because if you think things are bad now God help you when they all get to be 10 and up and teenagers!  Get control now!

[PaperMoon3]

Wow, I feel for you, you need to get rid of all snacks, candy & junk food from that house ASAP!  That's half of the problem right there, they are high off sugar! Eliminate sweets, pop, candy, and stuff like that, put it where they can't get it and if there's no place they can't get into then don't buy it at all!   Do you have a basement? Set up the basement as their playroom and recreation place where they can play as rough as they want without destroying anything, that way they won't destroy the living room and bedrooms. Aliminate all snacks and treats and use those as rewards for good bewhaviour, like if they are good and obey you all week thenn you will buy them some treats on the weekend or something like that, that will only work though if you eliminate it so they can only get it when you give it to them as a reward. give them all of the healthy foods they want just eliminate all sweets that hype them up.  You can buy them treats like once a week on the weekends until their behaviour improves.

[PaperMoon3]

Wow sounds like you are in a tough situation. First of all eliminate all sweets and sugary things and things that hypes children up, eliminate in the day time and especially at night! You need to set up a routine and be consistent till it sinks in their heads so they can know what to expect to eliminate so much chaos. Kids are stressed out by disorganization, chaos and too many changes. Plus you siad they had been abused so all of that is enough to make any kids act out.  Stop yelling, be firm without yelling and be consistent. Don't try somehtign one day or one time and say that didn't work, do it for a least a good while for the kids to realize this is how it's going to be each and every day. Period. Don't let them realize they can get ot you becuase they use that as a power thing. they feel a sense of control when they can get you upset and make you yell don't play into their hands.

[michelle6810]

Linda,

Take your own advice. I've read some of your comments on other posts and you are as dim witted as they come.

[linda07]

I find it a disgrace that some people that haven't got a life, or think too much of themselves would waste time posting here. I dont understand why they come to a forum like this one if their intention is not to help anyone, but bully other people that are genuinely seeking help. That's a shameful behavior.
They actually seem to get a kick out of it. They seem to enjoy it so much, that is why they keep coming back. My best advice would be, just ignore them. They're seeking attention and they don't deserve to be taken seriously. Good luck to you Foam!

[foam970fed002]

Well our house has the main level which has the living room, kitchen, dining room and a half bathroom. Up stairs has 2 rooms a bathroom and downstairs in the basement has our room, laundry room, some storage space and our bathroom.  It has more space that we aren't used to, even tho it only has 3 rooms, it works for now.

[tysmamma]

I am not saying whether I am for or against your theory of punishment. All I have to say is this:
As for the "not going back on your word" a more responsible way about that is if in a rage you say something completely unreasonable, once things have calmed down sit everyone down and say "Hey, I'm sorry about the threats earlier. I shouldn't have said _______. But, What I will do if this continues is ______." and give a more reasonable punishment. I normally believe that if a priviledge is abused then that priviledge is taken away. But, when it comes to beds, or other furniture or necessities being abused or taken advantage of...you could take away something else. Like if they jump on the beds or off the dressers, then you could take away something that each of the kids enjoy. Say the oldest enjoys barbies...take her barbies. The 4 year old enjoys a game, take that game. Set a time that the object will be taken away and then return it once that time is up (and the behavior is better). Be sure and remind them that with good behavior their favorite toy or w/e will be returned. If the kids already don't have many priviledges because of too much bad behavior, or they broke everything, or other reasons, then you can start rewarding them for good behavior however small, and then you'll have something to take away when bad behavior starts...sounds wrong, but I didn't know how else to word it. These are just some ideas to consider. I have 2 step children of my own who are pretty unrulely and disrespectful at times. Just keep in mind...They are only children and it's not their fault that they were raised poorly. Also...A 3 story house with only 3 bedrooms? Just curious about what kind of house that is?? lol. Take care and keep peace!!

[foam970fed002]

Yes the kids did get their beds back... Like I said before we are short one, because I'm not airing up that other bed again... because the same thing will happen... them jumping on them.  Therefore either the two oldest can share the bigger bed (a double) or if not, they will take turns. Once christmas gets here, all of the kids, besides the baby, will get a new bed... and it even has drawers under it, so then they won't really need the plastic dressers they have now... They don't have the sturdy wooden ones becaus they climb on top and jump off, I'm afraid that it's going to tip over with them, or one of them is going to get smashed.  

Any how they do have their beds back, not like they slept any longer once they got them, but they do have them. I have considered daycare for the younger ones, but money wise, it doesn't make any sense, cuz then I would have to get a job and do that, then come home and do the housework, and cooking and all of that stuff... in the long run, it would make it harder to get things done. I agree that once in a while, would be ok, like one day a month or twice a month... that is definitely do able.

Thanks althepal39, at least you understand why I did it. I didn't do it for no reason at all. I'm not sure I was right either, but something had to be done. And when they caught me on that off day, that's what happened. The kids are listening better now... not a lot but its something. I haven't gotten the cabinet locked yet, because I don't know if the one I have will work... maybe I should just get a new door handle with a key on it... and then put the key up high so they don't know where it is... would probably hold a little better.

We are in a bigger house then we were in, but this house still only has 3 rooms. So it makes it hard at night, his 3 in one room and my 2 in the other room... one day we will get a bigger house!

THanks for all the help

[althepal39]

OMG!  Catlover needs to get a life.   Foam - I understand why you took the beds - I'm not really sure I agree with it - but I do understand - because what else were you supposed to do??  They keep jumping on them - you tell them not to - they keep doing it - they are going to get hurt - one of them did get hurt - UGH!  I understand why you did it. These kids have extreme behavior problems - so the normal "time out" isn't going to work.   But kids do need beds.. have they earned them back yet?  Ignore Catlover - she is obviously not following the whole conversation  - you are far from bitter or jealous or anything..  You could easily walk away from the whole situation - and here you are TRYING so hard to do the right thing ...  

[nastursim]

Why don't you put some of the children into daycare if they are all under school age??? It would give them something to look forward to and give you a break.

[RockRose]

Foam,  hopefully somewhere else you will find the answers you are seeking.

I'm a huge believer in the philosophy  "when the student is ready,  the teacher arrives".  What a profound saying,  and so applicable here.

When you are ready to hear advice,  and not just affirmation,  someone will tell you the things people here are telling you.   And you will then,  get it.

Children need beds.  They need to have their own personal space,  however small that is,  even it it's just a bed.  Children at Auschwitz had their beds.  Did you know that?

[foam970fed002]

First of all I don't do punitive things to my children. I don't take away things that they actually need. like stuff they need to live... i.e. food, clothes, air, a place to stay.... Ya you are right, I started this thread because I had a question... just wanted to see what people would say... and ya I wanted to see if someone would agree with me, I did want to hear that I was right... but not because I'm a punitive person, who does bad things to my children... Because at the time I actually thought it was the right thing to do... you can't say you are going to do something, and then don't follow through... since it was said... it needed to be done. Next time I will think it through more, and no I won't take their beds again.

Anyways, I found what I was looking for... more so on my other thread... because I was at my witts end, and didn't know what to do... that's why the beds got taken... because they pushed sooo hard, and I caved in... I got too stressed out, and that was the only thing I could think at the time since they jump on those beds all the time.

[RockRose]

This thread goes on and on and on.

Foam,  I agree with Agiesmom.  You aren't looking for help,  you're looking for someone to say you're right.  

The thing is,  there are people who think you're right,  they're just not on this child behavior board.  There are parents in the world who do punitive things to their kids and take away necessities,  and ignore needs,  but frankly,  they don't hang out on MedHelp hoping to offer support and ideas to parents who are searching for solutions.

People who are trying to offer you help in working with your family aren't going to say you're right taking away children's beds.  

[catlovermom]

I'm sorry, foam, I'm not taking the bait.  

[foam970fed002]

so catlovermom, what am i jealous of? you never said... i'm curious

[foam970fed002]

Thank you April2 I know you understand where I'm comming from. I actually have said thanks a lot of times for the help... maybe not in this thread, because everyone just wants to attack me... I came here looking for help and a reason why I was wrong. I have said many times that I am trying some of the things that were suggested, and I have said many times that counseling is something that needs done, but finding the right psychologist is important!

I haven't thanked anyone except for April2 because she understands and is the only one who is trying to help my situation and give me ideas. No one else on here is doing that... just attacking me. I don't need this ****

[April2]

Actually she did thank people in her other thread and said she was trying some of the suggestions.
I think she's just under a tremendous amount of stress right now. Sometimes we sound negative or might not remember to thank someone because we can't see the light at the end of the tunnel just yet. I know how that feels. It even sounds like she might be a bit depressed. It certainly is a lot she has taken on right now. I don't know. I guess I just try to see the best in people. :)  I think with a little encouragement she'll actually be ok.

[Agiesmom]

She doesn't want help.  She wants validation.  She wants commendation.  She wants commiseration.  But not help.  She has gotten tons of helpful replies (on more than just this thread)--even one from Dr. Kennedy.  But there have been no "thank yous", no "I'll try thats", no "that's something I haven't considered", no "yes, serious counseling is in order".  Only reasons why she can't do what is suggested and more complaints and reports about the kids' behavior.

[April2]

Ok guys, take it easy. Catlovermom, how do you expect her to react to your post? You attacked her! How is that helping? She came here looking for help. She even was asking if we thought it was right to take away the beds. Obviously, she wants to do the right thing. She opened herself up here and made herself vulnerable. She doesn't need people attacking her.
I'm disappointed in how you and Teko attacked her. She needs help and advice right now. This is not an easy situation she's in. She trying to do the best with what's been handed to her. I applaud her for that.
Foam, I hope that you got something out of my post at least. Remember the sippy cup trick! I think you will be fine. Being a parent is a learning process. We all learn from our mistakes. Handling five kids so young is no easy task. Remember what I said. Take one day at a time. Take baby steps. Try the reward charts and take time out for yourself. God bless!

[catlovermom]

Your outburst has just proven my point.  In spades.

[foam970fed002]

SO how am I jealous, and of what? mean-spirited, abusive... bitter... childish? I Don't think so! I'm not any of those... how many children do you have?

I'm the best thing these kids have right now, they dont' have anything other than me, at least I'm trying. Yes I know that kids test limits, but these are no regular children here. Believe me, I am a preschool teacher! I've had maybe one child in one of my classes that is or was worse than these kids. But in the same tone! The only difference is mine behave in school and not at home, this child didn't behave anywhere.

I'm sorry catlovermom, but you can just **** off! You don't know me and I'm not of what you said I am. Ya sometimes I am angry and negative... but not all the time, and least I'm doing my best at raising these children. I bet you couldn't handle these kids for a few days! And I'd like to see you try, I'd like to see anyone try and control these kids, and be able to handle it for more than a few hours!

[catlovermom]

These are CHILDREN...what do you expect them to do?  They're going to test limits and do things that look "fun" no matter if you tell them not to.  

You had no right to take their beds away.  NO RIGHT.  That is controlling and abusive behavior and if I were a child, I would not feel safe in that environment.  What will you take next?  Their clothes and food?  

You sound like a bitter, negative, petty, childish, jealous, mean-spirited, angry, abusive person.  Get some help.

[April2]

Good for you! I'm proud of you that you stopped the spanking and yelling. That's huge! I've heard about people who fostered kids who were abused and the stealing food thing is pretty common. There was an article in our paper about one lady who lives here who has fostered many children over the years and she was saying that these kids just need to be shown love. Yes, there needs to be rules, but when they'd steal food, she'd just tell them that they didn't need to take food, that it was always there for them when they'd be hungry. But for the most part, she let it go. It took time for the kids to learn they were safe with her and to relax enough to realize that there would always be food and they didn't have to steal it and hoard it. Like I said, it just takes time. You have to be patient and consistant. You will see slow changes over time. It's true, they may go a few steps forward and then fall back a few steps, but each time it should get better. It takes time to establish new habits even with children. I urge you to not give these children back to the mother. I know how tempting it is, but you may be their only hope for success in life. Just take a deep breath and take one day at a time. Focus on the little changes you see and praise them for it. Take encouragemen over the small signs of improvement and work from there.

Oh, and I wouldn't worry about taking the little one of the bottle yet. One thing at a time. They've had enough changes for awhile. To be honest, I wasn't able to get my little one off the naptime/nighttime bottle until he was almost 3! I know, that's bad! :) I tried and he would throw fit and cry and I'd give it back to him. I figured I'd just do one change at a time. I had just moved him to a toddler bed so I gave that a month or so for him to get used to. Then I started the potty training and let that go for a couple of months before I finally worked on getting him off the bottle. I came up with an idea that seemed to work for my little one if you want to give it a try. I went out and bought a couple of sippy cups that were very different than the ones he already had. These had little handles on the side and soft mouthpiece. Then I put away the bottles so that he couldn't find them. When it was time for nap, I would say "Oh look, the bottles are all gone!" And I would show him in the cupboard. Then I showed him the new sippy cup and said, "Look, this is kinda like your bottle. It's a sippy cup bottle!" I know, sounds cheesy, but hey it worked with him! He was intrigued that it was different enough from his regular sippy cups that he was willing to accept it. I had tried before putting him to bed with a regular sippy cup and that never worked. It only worked when I went out and bought a totally different looking sippy cup and we only used the new ones for nap time and bed time. It worked!

Like I said, take one small step at a time. Don't try to make too many changes with the kids at once. Who cares if the little one is late getting off the bottle? Is anybody going to care or notice by the time he goes to school? Are people going to say "Oh, you were late getting off the bottle?" I don't think so! And if people, like relatives, do make comments, ignore them. You do what you know is best for the kids. My mom tried to make me feel bad and guilty that I was so late getting my youngest off the bottle and late potty training. Who cares! Do you think when he's 16 he's going to say or have people say "Wow, I was late getting off the bottle and getting potty trained." Of course not! It doesn't really matter in the whole scheme of things. Try and look at it from the big picture like that and you'll realize what I mean! :)  Remember, baby steps.

[foam970fed002]

Ya, I am going to make more time for me, and my fiance... since we only have the nights, and when it's his day off. but then again we do have all the kids with us. Lately I have found a little time to myself, when the older ones are in school, and I can get the little ones to lay down and take a nap at the same time. It also requires that I give the little one a bottle tho, and I really wanna get her off of it, she's almost 19months and is getting too old for one, but on the other hand, it's so nice when the house is quiet for a little while, and I can just watch tv, or take a bath. You are definitely right, I have almost givin up... I was at this point a while back as well, but this time it's only gotten worse.... I have seen the kids be complete destroyers in everything they touch and not listen... to getting better and listening, and kinda respecting things around here, and then next thing you know is things going worse then they were before. I used to hope and know that I have the power to change these kids, just sticking with them and helping them. But lately it's been like i'm overwhelmed, and stressed out, and almost don't care... and that's sad, that's not who I want to be... I want them to see me happy because I know happiness spreads, and if I'm happy then they will be.

Although I still have hope, there's not much... It does keep coming out negatively.... and I honestly can see why their mother did abuse them, even tho it's wrong and in no means what I want for them, and I won't ever hurt them like that... it gets to that point where you really can think and see yourself hurting them cuz it just doesn't stop. You just have to find a way to pull yourself out of that and not think that way, and just help them to get better.

THeir dad see's how much stress i'm under and how they hardly listen to him, he's almost ready to send the 2 older ones back to their mom. I don't wanna see that happen, even tho life would be easier not having to fix someone else's mistake with these kids. But That would tear us apart, I know my fiance wouldn't be happy knowing that their mom is abusing them and knowing what kind of life they would have. I know it would tear him up to do it, but I think he's almost at that point of doing it. He doesn't know what else to do.  If he did, i'd be afraid that he would have resentment towards me, because i'm with them all the time, and he isn't. he gets a break from going to work, and I don't. I think I'd feel like it would be my fault because I couldn't handle it... when I used to be able to handle it. When we went to the psychologist that one time... the good one... he actually complimented me, saying that I'm staying soo calm, with all this racket going on, just in the room, he say's he doesn't know how i do it, but it's great. and I just said that I have to do it, it's not a choice... if i'm not calm, they will be even worse and then I really won't be able to handle it.... but I think I've almost lost that calmness.

although I'm working really hard to be calm, and no more spanking or yelling! I'm doing good so far... even tho they've taken food every day for a few days, I haven't spanked them at all... I didn't even yell at them... I basically don't know what to say to them when they do it... I'm at a loss for words with that one