my 4 year old boy has a pooing propblem

[barbara oloughlin]

My child is 4 year old and he has this problem pooing is like he get to destracted from going to the potty. people say that is beacuse stress so there for he just dosen't want to go.and now i just don't know what to do any more i do remind him that he has to the toilet and that he shouldn't do it in hes pans.
what should i do i am all out of idea's.

[PhilAP]

Checking several sites on this topic I'm struck by the frustration expressed by parents and sense the stress the children involved are suffering.  Based on what I learned in an enlightening collage course on behavior, during a couple of generations of family experience, and research,  I would like, as a lay person, to share some observations. I will post this in several related threads.

There are several reasons for panty pooping and wetting including revenge, revolting (pun intended), claustrophobia - not liking to be closed in small rooms, especially with a large stone mouth that can swallow a whole child, or a physical condition.  

I believe there is another seldom considered reason - are you ready for this - ITS FUN!

One of the first things children independently master is bowel and bladder control. Some children, usually the smarter ones, master this function earlier than others and it may not be noticed by parents. The shift from involuntary to voluntary control is subtle. In an another wise boring time, being able on their own to relieve pressure and even pain by conscientiously spreading the legs a bit and filling underwear, and the resulting relief, pleasure and feeling, can rapidly become addicted behavior, even imprinted. Toss in some erotic feelings (oh yes, your child has them) and an underwear fetish may develop (or may not).

"Fetishism" is characterized by sexual urges and sexually arousing fantasies generally involving non-human objects.

To determine if panty pooping and/or wetting is a behavioral addiction requires some detective work.  
1) Hiding soiled underwear is a sign your child feels guilty about causing problems, but not enough to stop the behavior.
2) Washing soiled pants is often seen as way to continue this behavior, eventually in private, without inconveniencing others.
3) An affirmative answer to any of these questions, asked in a relaxed and non-event environment, is a positive clue:
       A) "Is going in pants more fun than using the toilet?"
       B) "Do you think I would enjoy going in my pants?"
       C) "Because you go in your pants a lot is there a special type of underwear you would like?"  You might be surprised to receive an intelligent discourse on stretch, absorbency and leg band tension.  Your child is pretty smart!  Otherwise he or she wouldn't be in this mess (intended).

If you think you are dealing with addicted behavior, than you should make it clear that:
1) This type of behavior is different, however it is not uncommon or unhealthy if proper sanitary practices are followed.
2) Because most people don't understanding panty pooping it must be done in private, not in public, or in school, or when guests or playmates are around.
3) Pooping and peeing in public will influence how you are accepted by others resulting in devastating social problems that will effect your family, life and career - forever.
4) That this urge to poop and/or wet panties will start to go away as you get older and find the extra time and effort involved is not worth the results.  (It can increase if under stress or bored.)
5) And, "By the way, don't spoil our floors or furniture!"

Sorry, you can not beat an addiction or fetish out of a person.  Seriously harassing a young child can cause bonding stresses that may lead to RADish behavior. No, that's not something to eat. "Reactive Attachment Disorders stem from problems in the parent/child relationship in the earliest years. When infants and toddlers should be learning that their needs can be met by the people they are dependent upon, they learn instead that it's not safe to trust others - that to be dependent on others is not worthwhile. Kevin Kennedy, Ph.D" .  Shipping feral children to Russia is not an option for most folks.

It is important to not make this addictive behavior a bigger problem than it really is. Remember, this is not your child's fault! You're the one that missed or messed up the critical potty training window.  
1) You are going to have to accept the problem's existence, control it in low stress manner, and it will eventually go away. Or more likely,be repressed.
2) Have pants available. A clear place they can wash and dry. And make sure they know you are available to discuss anything, anytime.
3) When shopping let them pick out their underwear.
4) Put some interesting magazines in the toilet. (If the kid doesn't read them your husband will.)
5) Try to influence event frequency, maybe "every other time" progressing to "once a week", etc.
6) When they clearly don't do it in public anymore try to have more friends, theirs and yours, around which will encourage more toilet use.
7) When mature enough explain the reasons behind this behavior, and maybe your role, and emphasize that it is not un-common.  Developing a good self image is important. Children should not think they are some kind of a freak.

Good luck finding a doctor, any kind, that isn't baffled by this "serious defecational defect". Their revulsion with messing around with crap overcomes logic. Your child will have a happy and successful life, if not with some professional help, then with the counsel you provide. Post if you do locate a competent professional who works with children's addictive behavior and fetishes.

Please do not use sugar to try to change behavior. I think addicting kids to sugar should be considered child abuse. I would rather be with a healthy well adjusted adult, who may occasionally enjoy taking a secret dump in a pair of drawers, than a sugar addicted slob, like you ones you've seen blocking the aisles in Wal-Mart. Usually leaning on a large cart full of carbohydrates.

[erinty]

I have been reading a lot of information on another forum at.  Even if your child does not have encopresis there is still a lot of good info in their posts about toilet training, tests, etc....

[Mammyfi]

My four and half year old son is still pooing in his underpants.  He has been admitted to hospital and has been there for the last week being trained by nurses and is still the same.  They have monitored his food tested for everything and we have still no progress.  I was cracking up this morning but I think I am going to try the clean your own mess up technique suggested above.  Hopefully this will work we have now only four weeks before he starts school!

[Ven2779]

My three year old daughter has been potty trained for about 6 months or maybe more, no out of no where she has started pooping in her pants,.  She seems to stay clean all day and as soon as it gets to be late afternoon there she goes again.  It is soo frustrating and Im not sure what to do about it.  Sh is using the toilette to pee but pooping is my problem...any suggestions??

[Ven2779]

My three year old daughter has been potty trained for about 6 months or maybe more, no out of no where she has started pooping in her pants,.  She seems to stay clean all day and as soon as it gets to be late afternoon there she goes again.  It is soo frustrating and Im not sure what to do about it.  Sh is using the toilette to pee but pooping is my problem...any suggestions??

[Skylersmommy]

I think that is wonderful advice. I'm having potty training issues with my daughter who is 3 years and 8mo old. She pees in the potty, a potty chair and an adult toilet, either one, she stays dry all night and thru nap time, the only time she pees in her pullup is when she doesn't want to stop playing, and that happens rarely. She NEVER goes poo in public and hasn't since she was about 2 years old, so I thought potty training would be a breeze, right? Well, the peeing hasn't been so bad, but after pooping in the potty only a handful of times, she stopped and only goes in her pullup, and when I have switched to big-girl underpants she goes poo in those too - gross! So I always end up going back to pullups. Today I switched to big-girl underpants again and she hasn't had a poop and I've put her potty chair in the corner where she normally 'goes', so we'll see what happens. I asked her pediatrician a few weeks ago and there are no developmental or physical issues (she sometimes has 3 poops a day, so she doesn't hold it unless we're in public) so the doctor thinks it's just a matter of her deciding she wants to do it. She is very strong-willed but not so much that we've had any other issues as a result, just normal 3 yr old behavior, etc. She went to MMO this past year and is enrolled in older 3's preschool for the fall, and they are not allowed to wear pullups, so I'm trying to do what I can for the next month hoping for the best. Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[pjcontreras]

Everyone's probably going to yell at me for saying this. But I had to potty train a bunch of kids, and I was always the "fun Nanny" but the kids also knew they couldn't mess around with me, throw fits, scream, throw things, speak rudely ect. also no acidents in pants...unless it really was an acident. There's a huge diffrence between a very young child just learning to go to the bathroom, and a older (over 3 1/2) kid refusing to go to the bathroom, and dumping in their pants.I am not talking about a child who has a phsyical /mental disability.
I have never one "punished" a child for having an acident. But I certianly do have then help clean it up. Rather it's on thier underware, sheets, whatever it is, I wasn't going to "take care "of it for them, and be a sweetsy about it.I wasn't rude, but I would just say something like, hey hun, what happened?  Were you playing or not paying attention to your body's signals because you were thinking about whatever you were doing more? They usually said yes.
I didn't take "extra underware with me or clothes. If a kid had an accident and they were planning to do soemthing fun, but then something 'happened" we just had to go home, they had to help get cleaned up, clean up the underware ect, and then I didn't hurry and leave to take them to whatever they had wanted to do rather it was a ball practice, game, movie, skating etc. If they didn't make it to the potty to take care of it, I wasn't going to drive back and forth all over town running a child back to resume their fun activities...unless it was something they couldn't miss (like their own birthday party.) But if it was someone else's and they did it, and that kid lived far away, then it was to bad and they missed the party.
It might sound harsh, but they certianly stopped. All of them, I honestly didn't have more than maybe 6 kids over 4 that ever had trouble with that sort of thing... I didn't happen any more at least not when I was there. I am not lying. I was never mean to the kids, and I would always talk honestly with parents about the situation and I never once had one parent get mad. If the kid had brothers/sisters if they got mad because they couldn't do something because we had to leave and go home because of the other kid, I let them vent a littel bit, bt I wouldn't let them be mean. I would remind them that they probably did something in their life that was embarrising or that was an acident, an dthey didn't want ot happen or needed help. That they wouldn't like to be made fun of.
Parents, kids all understood how I was, and were very greatful when their kid stopped pooping everywhere they went. I worked faster when the parents did the same thing and stopped pampering the kids if they pooped everywhere.
There is a disorder that causes a person to not be phsically able ot control themselves. But it's very rare, and I doubt it would be that, you can always consult your pediatritan.
You don't have to make a child feel humiliated by being firm and serious that there are cetian things they are responsible for.  They will still do it on their timming.. but after two or three times of having to clean and scrape out poop in to a bag to go out to the dumpster, then hand wash some underware /sheets whatever it is, pants with a bar of soap in the sink and not being able to just "go on with whatever they wanted to do" and act like everything's normal, they usually get over that pretty quick.
Take it with a grain of salt, but seriously it's worth a try if you do it in a respectful way, and in love and care. Because it's really for their benefit. They won't be able to go to friends, and schools won't let that go on.
It's better to not cater to it, and make there be a consequince. Not punishment. Don't dwell on it, but just make it be something that does have to get dealt with. Cleaned up,  not disposed of...(quick fix like it's not a big deal) unless something's TOO BAD...but you also shouldn't have to be buying tons of sheets, new underware, if their's is stained, then it's stainded ...washed and clean but it might have a big poop stain on it. They can get new underware when they stop doing it, but you don't need ot waise a bunch of money on new ones if they aren't ready to stop it.
God bless you.
Not trying to sound unkind or uncaring, I hope you understand.
Lesli

[emilypemmily]

my son has constipation issues and was on miralax for about a year and a half. when i potty-trained him, he would not poo in the toilet either, only in his pants, but if i put him in a pull-up, he would immediately wet it. we hit upon a compromise when i told him that he could wear a pull-up to poo, but only in the bathroom and then it was right back into underpants, as soon as he was finished. my plan was to slowly work up to having him wear the pull-up and poo sitting on the potty and then eventuelly even cutting a hole in the back of the pull-up so that the poo fell into the potty. after about 3 weeks of pooping in the pull-up, in the bathroom, he got tired of it and decided to try the toilet. he got nervous,but he happened to be play-acting that he was 'diego'(dora the explorers cousin) at the time, so i said,"does diego poop in his pants?" "no." he said, "he poops in the potty." and since he "was" diego, he pooped in the potty, too!
i'm not saying that this will work for everyone, but hey, it can't hurt to try! good luck!

[mom@homenow]

I speak with experience here, my son is nearly 5 1/2 and still does not take himself to the bathroom for bowel movements. He wasn't fully trained for pee until two weeks before he turned 5.  We don't know why he has had such a hard time with this, he has sensory processing isssues and that may play a part, but most kids with that do not train so late. He also had trouble with constipation when younger, and the drs say that can play a big role with the kids being afraid or just not liking the feeling of going to the bathroom so they try to hold it, with varying degrees of success, until it's too late. I have a few thoughts for those of you struggling with your older kids that appear to have no physical reason why they haven't trained.

1. Remember that the children do want to potty train. They may not show it, but they want to be a big kid just like their friends.
2. There's no magic solution, no method that works for everyone. That said, most preschoolers are motivated by toys or candy. If you've tried rewards like this and they haven't worked, your child likely isn't ready. Why not? That's the answer we're all looking for, but most of us will never know!
3. If your child wants to wear underwear, I don't suggest going back to pull ups or diapers. Most kids associate those with babies, and you may hurt their feelings by insisting they wear them. You never want to humiliate or "punish" them for soiling their pants.
4. I've been through the 5 pair of underwear per day stage! It helped to have my son sit on the toilet for 5 minutes a little while after every meal and mid-afternoon if he hadn't gone yet that day. Yes it was and sometimes still is a struggle! Consistency is key. We still have some days where it doesn't work out, but now the majoirity are successful days.
5. As hard as it is, don't focus too much daily on potty training.  Especially if it's been ongoing for months or years. Realize that your child isn't the one you hear about that trained in a day or even a week, and that's okay! He/she is still lovable! Make a conscious effort to give positive attention to your childs strengths and achievements. There's more to life than using a toilet, and that is true whether you're 4 or 40! SMILE :-)

[Trialanderror]

My son had gone through a pretty long phase like this and I know how hard it is to treat it casually as a parent. The phase was triggered by a few stressful events in his life. He went from initially being potty trained at 3 to falling back into old habits. Eventually it turned out that he felt he could only do his business standing up versus sitting on a potty. A padded kids` seat on the large toilet with handles did the trick becasue it gave him more room to move around, however there was another short phase of accidents when he experimented with the shortest timing between feeling the need to go and actually rushing to the toilet. The whole phase of ups and downs in toilet training must have lasted from 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 and I tried to not make a big deal out of it. Neither with punishment nor with reward charts. I just kept on pointing out where the BM should go. He was never constipated so I could exclude pant
soiling because of encopresis but he sure has a sensitive bowel that reacts rapidly, even unexpected for him. After all I have experienced myself and read on this board, this problem will resolve itself. I had been ready to involve a child psychologist but read that only after age 5 it is considered a problem to be treated, unless it is medical. Just hang in there, guys, the day does come that all those piles of underwear are history.

[melissaj]

Oh I was going to add, yes, some children are scared of the potty. I know I was. I was so scared of it for a long time.But I was more scared of getting in trouble than I was of the potty!

[melissaj]

Wow, that sounds tough and frustrating. While myself, having never esperienced that, some of my reltives did, and they too, were at the end of their rope. My aunt has a 7 year old that did that, and I dont know how they ever fixed that, I left home when she was 7. She is 27 now, so I hope she isn;t still pooing in her pants! *giggles* So, you see.. it can;t last FOREVER. A lot of parents have had this probolem, before you and after you. How many adults do you know that poo in their pants 3 or 4 times a day?
Having said that. I would go and buy some training pants. You know.. Pull Ups. Thats what they are for. People who cannot control their bodily functions. Infants, geriatrics, and specials needs people. Until he cano control that bodily function, he should wear them. It might be an incentive to stop, and will cut down on the number of underwear and laundry that you do!

[dardamico]

I was just about to post about my son, who will be turning 4 in October.  He's newly potty-trained for about a month now.  He pees in the potty with no problem.  It's just the pooping that he hasn't done yet.  He's been doing that in his pants.  Sometimes when he thinks he's going to poop, he sits on the potty and nothing happens.  I think he's constipated also, so I've been giving him food to try to help him along.  I just don't understand why he doesn't make it to the toilet and just does it in his pants.  I know it could be fear, but at this point I don't know.  If anyone has any suggestions or tips, I would greatly appreciate as I'm sure the other two posters above me would too.  

Thank you!

[erinty]

if you find out any ideas please let me know my son is 5 and will  only poo in his pants i have tried everything rewards, punishments spending time on the potty nothing works. i took him to the doctor i gave him a stool softner even an enema because i thought maybe he was constipated.  He is still going in his pants this is an issue i have on a daily basis its awful and smelly and its bedn going on for three years.  he goes through about 3-4 pair of underwear a day.  I feel your pain i wish i had an answer, sorry