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The New Health Coverage in a Nutshell
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This is a place where we can discuss current events - what happens around the world and is reported in the news. Healthy debates and discussions regarding issues we feel strongly about will be allowed; however, personal attacks will not be tolerated, nor will threads and/or comments that are argumentative, combative, or offensive. You *must* post a link to your source, or indicate if you heard it on TV, read a magazine/newspaper article, and indicate what radio/TV station, magazine/newspaper or your thread will be deleted. Remember, this is "Current Events", not "Current Arguments".

Founded by HelpinUtah on October 14, 2009
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The New Health Coverage in a Nutshell

The phone rings and the lady of the house answers.

"Hello?"

"Mrs. Johnson, please."

"Speaking."

"Mrs. Johnson, this is Dr. Jones at Quest Diagnostics.

When your husband's doctor sent his biopsy to the lab last week, a biopsy  from another Mr. Johnson arrived as well. We are now uncertain which one  belongs to your husband. Frankly, either way the results are not too  good."

"What do you mean?"  Mrs. Johnson asks nervously.

"Well, one of the specimens tested positive for Alzheimer's and the other one tested positive for HIV.  We can't tell which is  which."

"That's dreadful! Can you do the test again?" questioned Mrs. Johnson.

"Normally we can, but the new health care system will only pay for these expensive tests just one time."

''Well, what am I supposed to do now? "

"The folks at Obama Health Care recommend that you drop your  husband off somewhere in the middle of town. If he finds his way home, don't sleep with him."
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-6 Comments
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535822_tn?1389452880
OMG Thats brilliant  I laughed my socks off ...with a piece of luck Twe that Health care plan is outta there ,.LOL .
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That was great!  If that Bill passes, by the time the testing comes, they will know the difference, one won't be living and the other won't find the place to get tested. They have to save money some kinda way!
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973741_tn?1342346373
Very funny twehner!!!  Where do you get your material?

I've always wondered this about healthcare------  and where better to ask it than a place in which I could get blasted out of this universe . . . but anyhoo-----  I do have insurance that has a pretty high deductible as well as a copay.  So if I am sick, I decide when is the right time to go to the doctor as the visit will cost me money.  I don't go for every little thing and recover just fine.   If someone else was paying for my healthcare ----- would I be more apt to go for every little ache, pain, sniffle?  Having financial responsibility for my own healthcare means that I must be practical.  

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Twehner, that's another good one..........and also very true.  

specialmom -- you are right about your insurance.  All of us who pay for our own insurance have to decide when is the right time to go to the doctor.  We can't run for every little ache or pain.  You said the magic words on this one "FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY"............
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I love the way you use Homor to get the truth out there ,,Thing is today I hear that Pelosi is willing to 'Pole Vault' and even
' Parachute'(what a sight) the OBama Reform through regardless ...
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649848_tn?1357751184
Maybe she'll "pole vault" to outer space???  

Can't help but wonder how HER constituents might feel about that.  Maybe she doesn't care whether or not she's reelected?  
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No she doesnt nor does Harry Reid , well they must be at retiring anyway ...what really gets me is none of them NONE will be using any healthcare plan .. so they dont care what they ram down our throats they will have done their part ...in creating Chaos ....we have to look beyond the Box
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Isn't there already medicare and medicaid?  If you are pregnant and uninsured, all prenatal care, delivery charges, and after care are provided for.  AND a home nurses visit.  AND baby well care. Already, this very day provided free of charge in my state to those that are indigent.  Why not focas on improving those programs and have services that help people navigate throught he system?  Can't afford healthcare, can afford big, flat screen tv.  That is one of the things that I take issues with.  I realize that not all fit into that category and the programs need enhancement and improvement----------- but there ARE programs there.  
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285927_tn?1380802356
The rich get richer and the poor are taken care of. No one is arguing that point. The people that fall thru the cracks with pre existing, or lose their healthcare with their jobs, or even those who have it who reach the max pay out because maybe they were diagnosed with cancer or something that calls for extensive care.

Medicaid is full of people able bodied and on the system. They have no problem taking that handout. Some would say tho that it is not much that they get, just a meager amount. Factor in free healthcare for the whole family, a check every month, food stamps, wic, discount on housing, free childcare etc.

The rich have no problems because well, they are rich!


Free clinics are not an option for people who are still working and making a paycheck. At most you can go to a reduced fee according to your pay, but again, tests and everything like that are not covered in that fee. They send you somewhere else that charges full price. So that is not an option for someone with chronic problems either.

At the rate that premiums are going up, I give it 5 years at most before people are literally begging the government to come up with options.  If you want no government involvement at all, check out the system China has and see if you still want it.

Medicare is a government run plan as well, and you will not find anyone wanting to part with it. There is also fraud and waste on the part of the doctors and patients recieving these government benefits. Another would be SSI, or even Workers Comp fraud. The list is endless.

The ignorance on what is going on around us is amazing to me. I guess you dont get it till it hits home. Time will tell.
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specialmom,
that is what I have been saying. Our state has provisions for people that can't afford insurance. Actually they can get the best at the Medical College Hospital. I always pick drs there, because they are the most trained and they stay up to date on everything. I was injured and it was life threatening, guess where they transported me. They saved my life and I didn't have a good chance of surviving. People pay what they can afford. No insurance, they just set up payments--no copay. They will get the treatment they need no matter how expensive it is. We have the WIC Program, well baby care, food stamps, you name it. We can pick a plan if we want and can afford it, and if we can't then we still have plenty of programs to get the care we need. Children that have serious life long problems qualify for Medicare and more.
I'm sure that just about every State has provisions. It is sure cheaper if we pay the taxes as we have so far that goes toward covering those plans than to pay the IRS for govt care, that our care will require costs, co-pays, fines, losing the choice of our own care, having gov. trained visitors coming to our homes and invading our lives, telling us how to eat, how to live, and come back to make sure we have, tell us to lose weight, see if we are doing it, and may decide our health problems are our own fault, so no care. They will decide our life or lack of life for us. They must keep costs down, so long term care will be considered on cost rather than need.
I must post the Executive Order that Obama has made for Health Reform, back in 09. The concerns sound good, but then so did all his speeches. I wonder why they are voting on something he has already signed by Executive Order. I will post it.
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As copied from the White House Site:

Skip to main content | Skip to footer site map The White House. President Barack Obama. Get Email UpdatesContact Us.Go to homepage.The White House Blog Photos & Videos
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THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
------------------------------------------------
For Immediate Release                            April 8, 2009  
EXECUTIVE ORDER
ESTABLISHMENT OF THE WHITE HOUSE OFFICE OF HEALTH REFORM

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in the interest of providing all Americans access to affordable and high-quality health care, it is hereby ordered as follows:
Section 1. Policy. Reforming the health care system is a key goal of my Administration. The health care system suffers from serious and pervasive problems; access to health care is constrained by high and rising costs; and the quality of care is not consistent and must be improved, in order to improve the health of our citizens and our economic security.
Sec.2. Establishment. (a) There is established a White House Office of Health Reform (Health Reform Office) within the Executive Office of the President that will provide leadership to the executive branch in establishing policies, priorities, and objectives for the Federal Government's comprehensive effort to improve access to health care, the quality of such care, and the sustainability of the health care system.
(b) The Secretary of Health and Human Services, to the extent permitted by law, shall establish within the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) an Office of Health Reform, which shall coordinate closely with the White House Office of Health Reform.
Sec. 3. Functions. The principal functions of the Health Reform Office, to the extent permitted by law, are to:
(a) provide leadership for and to coordinate the development of the Administration's policy agenda across executive departments and agencies concerning the provision of high-quality, affordable, and accessible health care and to slow the growth of health costs; this shall include coordinating policy development with the Domestic Policy Council, National Economic Council, Council of Economic Advisers, Office of Management and Budget, HHS, Office of Personnel Management, and such other executive departments and agencies as the Director of the Health Reform Office may deem appropriate;
(b) work with executive departments and agencies to ensure that Federal Government policy decisions and programs are consistent with the President's stated goals with respect to health reform;
(c) integrate the President's policy agenda concerning health reform across the Federal Government;
(d) coordinate public outreach activities conducted by executive departments and agencies designed to gather input from the public, from demonstration and pilot projects, and from public-private partnerships on the problems and priorities for policy measures designed to meet the President's goals for improvement of the health care system;
(e) bring to the President's attention concerns, ideas, and policy options for strengthening, increasing the efficiency, and improving the quality of the health care system;
(f) work with State, local, and community policymakers and public officials to expand coverage, improve quality and efficiency, and slow the growth of health costs;
(g) develop and implement strategic initiatives under the President's agenda to strengthen the public agencies and private organizations that can improve the performance of the health care system;
(h) work with the Congress and executive departments and agencies to eliminate unnecessary legislative, regulatory, and other bureaucratic barriers that impede effective delivery of efficient and high-quality health care;
(i) monitor implementation of the President's agenda on health reform; and
(j) help ensure that policymakers across the executive branch work toward the President's health care agenda.
Sec. 4. Administration. (a) The Health Reform Office may work with established or ad hoc committees, task forces, or interagency groups.
(b) The Health Reform Office shall have a staff headed by the Director of the Health Reform Office (Director). The Health Reform Office shall have such staff and other assistance as may be necessary to carry out the provisions of this order.
(c) As requested by the Director, each executive department and agency shall designate a liaison to work with the Health Reform Office on improving access to health care, the quality of health care, and the sustainability of the health care system.
(d) All executive departments and agencies shall cooperate with the Health Reform Office and provide such information, support, and assistance to the Health Reform Office as it may request, to the extent permitted by law.
Sec. 5. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:
(i) authority granted by law to a department, agency, or the head thereof; or
(ii) functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals. (b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations. (c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity, by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.
BARACK OBAMA
THE WHITE HOUSE,
April 8, 2009


My question is why are they voting on Health Care Reform when Obama signed off on it shortly after being in office?
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This is what they do its all behind closed doors then they will give him the bill and he will willingly sign it probably whilst saying it wasnt his fault ....maybe it was Bush pushing that pen along when he signed ..
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I do understand the plight of the working poor.  That is a difficult situation to just be making ends meet financially and then have medical expenses take you over the edge.  I do see change as necessary in some areas and am compassionate to those less fortuante than myself. But there is a definate problem with those who just WANT in this country.  I'm telling you, that working poor don't give up cable or big screen tv's in this country (generalization, but holds true for many).  I have a child with a developmental delay that requires therapy.  We have to sacrifice for it.  Are we lucky to still live comfortably with that medical expense, yes.  But I understand that I must pay for it.  We do what we have to in order to pay for it. And my friend who's child has the same diagnosis participates in the state program  and receives almost identical therapy to us all paid for through tax dollars.  That is fine by me-----------  as I do pay taxes already to help people.  But there are many programs already available to those below or at the poverty line.  

Sometimes it feels as if there is an insinuation that only the "compassionate" would be for healthcare reform in its entirity.  The rest of us are selfish and greedy.  
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The reason I say why are they voting on it is because Obama already signed it and put it in place. The only thing that is going on is 2,000 or more pages of details of what they are going to do to us and of course, the methods of treatment, such as not seeing a dr and delivering a baby at a Birthing Center not a hospital, along with out patient procedures and cutting out staying in a hospital when you should. That is not even the beginning.
" it is hereby ordered as follows:" ---------I would assume if the president said it is ordered, he means, his signature on it means, it is in place by his authority-----
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RJ with the UK system of healthcare that we were told this was modelled on , the birthing system turned out to be you had your children at ome after the first one whether you lik d or not, hospital beds were too
expensive ' for the goverment ..I had to have 2 children at home , the cord was around one childs neck, the 'single midwife at the birth couldnt cope and I was rushed into hospital ..via the flying ambulance system ..he survived ..just ......My brother waited weeks to get results of prostate tests he thought he had cancer , he waited something like 12 weeks to hear he didnt have it, and get treatmnent for prosthetitas , that was last year...A family member in UK 3 days ago went to the Doc with a cough and breathless ...the Doc listened and said you need an Xray sounds like fluid on the lungs ,he is a senior, he had the xray done ,no diagnosis gave him anti biotics and said he would hear the results  in a few' weeks .......
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But to what cost, who pays for all of this? Nothing is free, I would love to see some type of health care that works for everyone. There is one thing that really bothers me now though. The amount of people that are on public assistance that use the ER as a Drs office for colds and such. I know this first hand because I have been there needing care and have seen them as well as I have worked with people that did the same. With nationalized health care would this be the norm? What measures would there be to reduce the cost?
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NOTE: this is copied directly from the order and it is wide for the page and compressed itself in the space.
www.justice.gov/ag/readingroom/ag-091608.pdf

This is an Executive Order on Eminent Domain......It explains what an Executive Order does:

THE EXECUTIVE ORDER:

U.S. Department of Justice Seal Office of the Attorney General Washington, D.C. September 16, 2008 MEMORANDUM FOR ALL DEPARTMENT AND AGENCY HEADS FROM: THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SUBJECT: Implementation of Executive Order 13406: Protecting the Property Rights of the American People Executive Order 13406, "Protecting the Property Rights of the American People," confirms that it "is the policy of the United States to protect the rights of Americans to their private property," and that "the taking of private property by the Federal Government" should be limited to "situations in which the taking is for public use, with just compensation, and for the purpose of benefitting the general public...." The Order instructs the Attorney General to "issue instructions to the heads of departments and agencies to implement" this policy, as well as to "monitor takings by departments and agencies for compliance" with the Order. The enclosed memorandum provides instructions to all departments and agencies regarding the implementation of Executive Order 13406. The memorandum reviews the contents of the Executive Order and describes a process by which departments and agencies seeking to acquire property through the exercise of eminent domain must certify their compliance with the Executive Order to the Department of Justice. To the extent that the Department of Justice is charged with representing your agency in affirmative eminent domain proceedings, this process involves only a modest change to the existing process for initiating eminent domain actions. To the extent that your agency has independent authority to bring eminent domain proceedings, compliance reporting to the Department of Justice in connection with such proceedings is required. Responsibility for monitoring compliance with the Executive Order has been delegated to the Environment and Natural Resources Division of the Department of Justice. If you have any questions about this memorandum, please contact the Chief of the Land Acquisition Section of the Environment and Natural Resources Division at 202-305-0316.

Page 1

September 16 2008 Implementation of Executive Order 13406: Protecting the Property Rights of the American People On June 23, 2006, the President issued the attached Executive Order 13406, entitled "Protecting the Property Rights of the American People." The Executive Order confirms that it is "the policy of the United States to protect the rights of Americans to their private property." Under this policy, any "taking of private property by the Federal Government" should be limited "to situations in which the taking is for public use, with just compensation, and for the purpose of benefiting the general public and not merely for the purpose of advancing the economic interest of private parties to be given ownership or use of the property taken." This memorandum is being issued pursuant to Section 2 of the Executive Order, which provides that the Attorney General shall "issue instructions to the heads of departments and agencies to implement the policy" set forth in the Order, and shall "monitor takings by departments and agencies for compliance with [this] policy."

Instructions for Implementing Order and Compliance Monitoring Provisions Whenever a department or agency seeks to take private property by direct condemnation, the department or agency must evaluate that acquisition of property in light of the policy set forth in Executive Order 13406. That is, the department or agency must assess whether the proposed taking is "for public use, with just compensation, and for the purpose of benefiting the general public and not merely for the purpose of advancing the economic interest of private parties to be given ownership or use of the property

This memorandum is being issued pursuant to Section 2 of the Executive Order, which provides that the Attorney General shall "issue instructions to the heads of departments and agencies to implement the policy" set forth in the Order, and shall "monitor takings by departments and agencies for compliance with [this] policy." Instructions for Implementing Order and Compliance Monitoring Provisions Whenever a department or agency seeks to take private property by direct condemnation, the department or agency must evaluate that acquisition of property in light of the policy set forth in Executive Order 13406. That is, the department or agency must assess whether the proposed taking is "for public use, with just compensation, and for the purpose of benefiting the general public and not merely for the purpose of advancing the economic interest of private parties to be given ownership or use of the property taken."

See Section 3, Executive Order. An exercise of eminent domain undertaken for one of the purposes enumerated in Section 3, and that otherwise complies with applicable law, complies with the Executive Order. The agency or department pursuing such a direct condemnation thus satisfies its obligation to evaluate the condemnation for compliance with the policy in the Executive Order by establishing that it is for one of these specified purposes. As detailed below, an agency or department considering whether to pursue a direct condemnation shall seek the Department of Justice's review as to whether the proposed condemnation is consistent with this Order. If the Department of Justice determines it is consistent with this Order, then the agency may make a final determination as to whether it wishes the condemnation to go forward. To enable the Department of Justice to "monitor takings by departments and agencies for compliance with the policy set forth in section 1" of the Order, as required by Section 2(a)(ii) of the Order, the Department of Justice hereby directs any department or agency that is seeking to acquire property through the exercise of eminent domain to certify that it has evaluated the      CONTINUES TO NEXT PAGE
proposed acquisition in light of Executive Order 13406 and that the proposed acquisition complies with the policy set forth in Section 1 of the Order.

THIS IS ON THE BOTTOM OF EACH PAGE
This memorandum implements Executive Order 13406. Like that Order, this memorandum is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity against the United States, its departments, agencies, entities, officers, employees, or agents, or any other person. Interagency communications pursuant to this memorandum may be privileged and confidential.      
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There always has been free heathcare here not just the ER most areas have a clinic for people that have little or no money, I have Doctor friends who help out in their own town so when I hear of NO heathcare I know that is not so...Most of the illegal folks go to these clinics they get mammograms , all childrens vaccinations, always have done .even the prescriptions are low or no cost .....
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They had to take the one that was signed and combine it with the one in the senate somehow, the combination of these would have to pass. We are stalled at that point in the process, therefore leaving the procedure half done. That is what all the talk is about as far as it being stalled. That is what they mean when they say they gotta keep working on it. Otherwise, it would already be law.
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Obama signed it, and it already has all the set up of the departments, who they will report to, etc. It is already in the hands of the government's departments and people that will be involved with budgeting, etc. Those seperate sections will decide what is done and how by the ones above them. What is there to combine, it is all spelled out. In other words, there already is Health Care Reform. Like Pelosi said, it will pass. I guess so, the work is finished. The only stall is how much and how soon. It has already been offered to sign up for on television. They even stated they can only take so many applications per day to process them.

1)
: Implementation of Executive Order 13406: Protecting the Property Rights of the American People Executive Order 13406, "Protecting the Property Rights of the American People," confirms that it "is the policy of the United States to protect the rights of Americans to their private property,"
2) Sec.2. Establishment.(a) There is "established a White House Office of Health Reform (Health Reform Office) within the Executive Office of the President" that will provide leadership to the executive branch in establishing policies, priorities, and objectives for the Federal Government's

It clearly states it is established

Main Entry: es·tab·lish
Pronunciation: \i-ˈsta-blish\
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English establissen, from Anglo-French establiss-, stem of establir, from Latin stabilire, from stabilis stable
Date: 14th century
1 : to institute (as a law) permanently by enactment or agreement
2 obsolete : settle 7
3 a : to make firm or stable b : to introduce and cause to grow and multiply
4 a : to bring into existence : found  b : bring about, effect
5 a : to put on a firm basis : set up  b : to put into a favorable position c : to gain full recognition or acceptance of
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Establish
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Rory_Nemo

If you are not an American, what do you care that Democrats or Republicans, or Independents do or do not want or like about anything? Why would our President concern you in the least? You have your own Country to live in and say you are a visitor here. What makes you think that as a visitor to this Nation, what goes on with our Laws or President is any of your concern? You say all those things, but what happens here does not affect you. You will go home to your own Country. The citizens of America will be living with the laws that govern it. I don't even know why I acknowledged anything you have had to say about what is happening. You have been rude and ugly to us as citizens talking about our own Nation, in which you have no part of. I for one will no longer acknowledge anything you have to say about what does not concern you. You don't vote here.
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Having a child with a disability has been an eye opening experience for me.  My husband is a global manager for an international company.  (Whew whew-----  don't let the title fool you, we aren't the rich getting richer).  My husband is offerered positions about once or twice a year to move overseas.  They would be wonderful for his career and exciting for the family.  Different locations in Europe have been on the table.  We have looked into it.  Seriously.  But realized that our child could not receive the level of care he has here.  We researched and found that we are the best place we can be.  Argue with me on that and I will tell you what kinds of waiting time they talk about and what services they offer.  I believe in my heart of hearts that my child wouldn't be where he is today had we moved out of this country.  
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What do you call 100 politicians at the bottom of the sea?  





A start.
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Maybe this will clarify things for you.

Senate Democrats passed a landmark health care bill in a climactic Christmas Eve vote that could define President Barack Obama's legacy and usher in near-universal medical coverage for the first time in the country's history.

"We are now finally poised to deliver on the promise of real, meaningful health insurance reform that will bring additional security and stability to the American people," Mr. Obama said shortly after the Senate acted.

"This will be the most important piece of social legislation since Social Security passed in the 1930s," said Mr. Obama, standing with Vice President Joe Biden in the State Room of the White House.



The 60-39 vote on a cold winter morning capped months of arduous negotiations and 24 days of floor debate. It also followed a succession of failures by past congresses to get to this point. Biden presided as 58 Democrats and two independents voted "yes."
No Republicans voted for the bill. Sen. Jim Bunning, R-Ky., did not vote due to what his office called "family commitments."

During the vote, an exhausted Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., initially cast a "no" vote by mistake, but then quickly corrected himself as fellow senators burst out laughing.
The tally far exceeded the simple majority required for passage.

The Senate's bill must still be merged with legislation passed by the House before Obama could sign a final bill in the new year. There are significant differences between the two measures but Democrats say they've come too far now to fail.


Both bills would extend health insurance to more than 30 million more Americans. Mr. Obama said the legislation "includes the toughest measures ever taken to hold the insurance industry accountable."

Vicki Kennedy, the widow of the late Massachusetts Sen. Edward Kennedy, who made health reform his life's work, watched the vote from the gallery. So did Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., the longest-serving House member and a champion of universal health care his entire career.

"This morning isn't the end of the process, it's merely the beginning. We'll continue to build on this success to improve our health system even more," Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said before the vote. "But that process cannot begin unless we start today ... there may not be a next time."

At a news conference a few moments later, Reid said the vote "brings us one step closer to making Ted Kennedy's dream a reality."

The Nevadan said that "every step of this long process has been an enormous undertaking." (Watch the press conference here)

Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., chairman of the Finance Committee, said he "very happy to see people getting health care they could not get."

It was the Senate's first Christmas Eve vote since 1895, when the matter at hand was a military affairs bill concerning employment of former Confederate officers, according to the Senate Historical Office.

The House passed its own measure in November. The White House and Congress have now come further toward the goal of a comprehensive overhaul of the nation's health care system than any of their predecessors.

The legislation would ban the insurance industry from denying benefits or charging higher premiums on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions. The Congressional Budget Office predicts the bill will reduce deficits by $130 billion over the next 10 years, an estimate that assumes lawmakers carry through on hundreds of billions of dollars in planned cuts to insurance companies and doctors, hospitals and others who treat Medicare patients.

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I never thought you would hold your tongue. I expected you to go on and on. All your interest is great. Constantly putting people down that are truly concerned about what is happening....Coming up with Obama taking my home.....I don't post to go directly to you with every word I say. I talk directly to you. Rant on, I know you will. If that is what makes you happy go to it, but I will tell you this. Med Help will shut down the site if this continues. I will not talk to you, I promise, just don't talk to me either. We will both be happy. The End.
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Have you read through any of the Bill they had together 1 & 2 so far? I don't know how many thousands of pages, so far. It is not having care for those that don't have it for some reason or another that bothers me. Everyone is entitled to good care. I have also seen times, actually quite a few years of no insurance, so I know how it is. We did however have clinics and hospitals available and still do. It is a lot of the language that concerns me. I look at what it is saying. I wonder about all the insurance companies that have been involved. That in itself is concerning. The insurance companies don't want to be put out of business, that much we do know. Making deals with their own parties for votes, makes me wonder, why would they need to do that? In reading everything they have available to us, it is concerning to think the government will have communities that will basically oversee homes, getting involved in how I live, what I eat, and decide my care. My dr having to get permission for my care. Medical care is expensive now, dr, hospital, medication, procedures that is needed, medical devices. They will tax all those things. I can hardly cover my medicine now. Federal taxes take a big chunk of our money, speaking of my own, and I am sure there are many in the same boat. The insurance will be paid through additional taxes, and we will pay taxes on the gross money so those taxes will be taxed. All the care,meds, devices taxed. All the many, many, committees overseeing it all have to be paid. We will pay co-payments, just like insurance. I don't see how any money is not going through the roof to cover all of that. Those that cannot afford to pay for it now, will be fined, do they still get care? How are they going to pay for meds, etc. if they can't pay for the insurance? If they pay more taxes on everything, they can't pay for the meds, etc, as well as the insurance, though they will pay a hefty fine. They will have a budget for care for a certain duration, if they run out, what happens to the care. It is the meat of the Reform, that concerns me. It has to be a better way to help those that do not have care. More will be spent to run the system than to give the care. At least, that is what I have seen from what they have allowed us to see.
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Honestly, I have not. I will wait until they get down to combining the two bills to start seriously looking at it. I was for the public option and when they ditched that, I kinda lost interest altogether until the arguing is done between the politicians. I do think doing away with the pre existing is good, but I don't think insurance companies should hold all the power. To me that is our biggest problem. I also do not believe it should be tied in with our paychecks, as that is how a lot of people come to be without it. Those are only my views, not anything in the bills. I also think we can all agree something needs to happen and soon, but will hold out my yay or nay to the particulars until they get done haggling. Honestly, with the power trip in Washington, I would be surprised if anything gets accomplished now. LOL  I sound very pessimistic I know and am sorry for that, it just feels so helpless and hopeless. I am mad at all of them! Blue cap and Red cap. lol
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Maybe they would do better to let the States handle it. Different States have different needs. Some need more than others, and what works for one may not for others. They can work and then they should let it be available for all of us to read it so we know what is what, and have some input. At least we wouldn't feel so shut out.
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Thats what I would like , let us see it ,none of this behind closed doors stuff, get rid of this one start another then  let us take a look and have some input in our own healthcare ....that they for sure wont be using ..any of them ,
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In regards to the comment " people without health ins shouldn't have big screen tv's" Let's just say those people paid cash for their big screen back when they had a job and health insurance, but now have lost both. Back when life was good for most folks. Now they could probably sell that big screen  and get say 300-500 bucks.  They could cancel their 75 dollar a month cable. Now from my estimation, doing both those things, they would be able to buy 1-2 months worth of health insurance after 1 year.........(if they don't have a pre-existing condition).  So you might want to rethink that plan.

As far as free health care, free clinics. You might be able to see a doctor but any tests you might need, are not readily available. The local businesses donate these and in order for them to stay profitable they can only give away so many per month. This leaves people with serious problems to either go to emergency room or get on a very long waiting list, say 6 months to a year for a mammogram, and lets hope you don't have breast cancer.  Free clinics are great if you have a cold.
Now if government was going to invest in these clinics and improve them, make more of them readily available and provide testing etc..  This would be more costly than any of the  health care bills they are working on.
So now what say you..........all ideas are great , but they have to hold water.
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You are absolutly wrong about the tests in the clinics ...the do all the testing  there is a clinic in Santa Monica for a start, the same tests ordered  in a regular Doctors office , San Diego has 2 or 3 clinics, and they also do testing ...
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See telling me I am wrong when you don't know the big picture.  How can I be wrong when I have been going to a free clinic myself for a year. I have first hand experience.  It's great that Santa Monica & San Diego have better facilities, but this is not the case through-out the country.  The next county over from me doesn't even have a free clinic. Need to look beyond your neighborhood or state. So many people dieing everyday because of the lack of health care.
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I am not elligable for a free clinic and going to the ER would put me into bankruptcy and raise your premiums to pay my bill. Guess I could quit working and go on welfare tho, many others do and this is why medicaid is busting at the seams in every state.
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P.S. The free clinic gave me a prescription that costs $300 a month. I thought that was kinda funny.
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Or, we could commit a crime, go to prison and you would be paying for my free medical, dental, food, housing with no questions asked. Sad to say that the most sorry excuses of humans are taken care of but good tax paying citizens cannot buy health coverage. No one wants free, just affordable.
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Bottom line. Until you walk the walk, you cannot talk the talk. Trade places with someone without for 3 months while your sick, then come tell me about it.
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I know Teko.   I don't EVER want to wish illness or unemployment on anyone ever, but sometimes I just think some people won't get it until it happens to them.
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Why not stick to the facts and stop being so hostile , have you ever looked back at your posts you seethe with hostility if any one has another fact or opinion you leap at them it makes it very difficult to even communicate , .The free clinic in Santa Monica may indeed be more fortunate I do not know, I only know of good Folks who give their free time to work there I do know that at that clinic they have there own druggist ,Pharmacist on site and give out the meds in situ ..PLease do not assume I dont care about people who cant afford a Doctor ....
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Facts are what I'm looking for. First, you told me I was wrong, which was not a fact.  I am not trying to be hostile. I never said you don't care about people. I said you need to look at the bigger picture.
I also love the people at our free clinic. You won't meet a better bunch of people, but their hands are tied.
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I'm off to do an estimate, but would love to continue this conversation in a friendly manner when I return.  I am even willing to completely embarrass myself with some personal information in hopes of having you understand.
Keep an open mind and I'll see ya all later.
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The Clinic in Santa Monica is run as part of a foundation, a wonderful Black American Woman died and left the money from the foundation to the people of Santa Monica and anyone needing Medical help, mostly it seems to be treating Famlies coming from Mexico, some who are at risk from TB so they get the TB tests done and all meds paid ..I didnt actually realise that other Cities in other states didnt have the same Free clinics ..I certainly assumed that any near a border would have ....
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My comment about the big screen tv was a general comment about Americans (whom I love, don't get me wrong).  There is a large chunk whether you care to admit it or not that haven't made good choices. They perhaps choose to smoke which is extra money that could be applied elsewhere as well as causing additional medical problems down the road.  And the big screen tv was an analogy for how many people operate.  Sorry if it is insulting, it wasn't personal to anyone.  Just an analagy.  and yes, our economy is in the hole.  Maybe that is what the focas should be hence the Mass election.

There are companies that are growing in popularity for the uninsured and even the insured that will  help you with your bill in this way.  They negotiate with the place where money is owed.  Say you owe $1000 to a hospital.  They offer the hospital 500 dollars (just an example) and they accept.  Then you pay the 500 dollars and a 5% fee to the company that negotiated it.  Win win for everyone.  

Changes can come.  Many would be welcome. I just feel swamped myself and don't feel like we (as in my husband and I) can carry everyone else's load as well.  That is honest.  And because the healthcare bill became so LARGE, many that are in my position say no.  I do not want to be taxed on my employer benefits, for example.  That is an insult.  

The walking in others shoes goes both ways.  My feelings are legitimate as well.

I was at a "thing" the other day and this woman who takes pain pills chronically was there.  She was going on and on about how she couldn't wait for healthcare reform.  She'd had to go to the doctor 2 times in a week because she saw her doctor's partner and he wouldn't prescribe her pain meds so she had to go back to her original doctor.  Man, she just couldn't wait for reform so she wouldn't have pay for that.  Do you think that is okay?  That is a serious question.  
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Very quickly as I am headed out the door.  No I do not think that is right, unless of course she is in serious pain.  As a pain pill addict myself, I'm starting to think they should do away with them completely, but some people have to have pain relief in serious situations. So that's not an option. When I first started on them (auto accident) I definitely needed them. They are so addictive and I don't wish that on anyone.
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I do think we need healthcare for all people that want to legally contribute to our society. I just think we need to have a good way to pay for it that is fair to all. Before anyone says anything, people that cannot contribute do to a legitimate physical or mental condition should be covered, period. I do think however that anything “free” gets abused. We all, this includes me too, are so used to running to the Dr when we get a sniffle because “it is free or doesn’t cost much”.

I also think that people should be required to continuously carry some type of coverage, there again this is assuming we can have “reasonably affordable” healthcare available. I look at it like car insurance, the longer you are insured the easier it is to find lower cost insurance, assuming you don’t have a lot of tickets or accident. However once you have an accident you can’t expect to get insurance to pay for the damage if you didn’t have it when you caused the damage, but once the damage is fixed that part of the car should be covered. I wonder if the thought of community service has been thought of for payment for those that can’t afford premiums. With so many services being cut because of the loss of tax revenue this might be a win-win.

If you are young and don’t think you need health insurance but then start getting sick you shouldn’t expect to get low cost insurance to cover your illnesses. I have had subordinates that have opted for 50 cents more an hour in place of company paid insurance because “they didn’t need it” and then cried when they had to go to the Dr for one reason or another.

In response to going to a Dr twice to get meds, I sort of understand this. I once had the beginnings of a sinus infection, I know when they start because I have been plagued with them all my life, I called and my Dr couldn’t see me so I went to one of the other Drs there. During the exam he said yes you are having a lot of drainage so here is a script for meds to dry you up. I asked for antibiotics and he said no that I didn’t need them. Three days later I went back to see him because I was in agony and he said wow you are bad here is a script for antibiotics. I was furious and after I had the script in my hand I told him that if he had listened to me it would have save me a trip, his time and me money and I told him that I was not paying for that visit. Needless to say I never when to that particular Dr again.
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Understand your points, but am concerned that programs that are already in place aren't taken into consideration.  Those below the poverty level do have options.  Perhaps they need more, I'll conceed to that.  I think a strong look needs to be taken at the insurance companies and some changes made.

With regards to your experience with a sinus infection, let me just say that perhaps your doctor WAS acting rsponsibily.  Here is why----  most upper respitory things are viral in nature.  An antibiotic would do no good and in fact, if given can cause an issue.  Resistence builds up when antibiotics are given to everyone presenting with a respitory issue.  Resistence not just for you but for everyone.  The CDC has very strict guidelines that probably should be followed more to help keep the antibiotics we use effective longer.  BUT viruses can turn into a secondary infection.  If you have a runny nose and as the virus starts to go into its second phase and the secretions thicken, they then start to "lay" around in your sinuses. This is when an infection begins and when an antibiotic would be in order.  Kids have this issue frequently with ear infections and it can go from simple virus to an ear infection within an hours time.  You see the doctor before the ear infection has started, then she'll say a virus and send you home.  THEN the infection starts.  So, when to go to the doctor is important and kind of proves my point that if it is free-------  people really go too soon at times.  And lastly, not to be the least bit argumentative, but drug seeking and sinus infections are not in the same category.  Just my opinion.
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I really dont understand why you think the American people want free anything. I consider that an insult. I work, my hubby works, I raised 6 children and now it is just the two of us. We do not have a grand home, or even a flatscreen television, but if we did? So what? The hubbys employer carried insurance on the employees until the economy went bust. After the employer discontinues it because he no longer can afford it, you have to go try to get it. You are no longer in that pool of people where you get decent rates or even discounted care. Then the very company that we had insurance thru denied us coverage due to pre existing. The cheapest policy we could find was 1500.00 a month and that did not include anything we had been previously treated for for a year. I am self employed, we pay taxes and we pay car payments and we pay our bills. We have great credit, are upstanding citizens in the community, and WE cannot get health insurance. Now why dont you smart puppies let me know what my options are? I am currently making payments on a kidney stone the man had to have taken out after we lost the insurance. 25.000 worth. Sure, I can go to the ER and just keep making them monthly payments for everything else that happens to us? You do not have a clue. Also whereas you might pay 20% of a total hospital bill and your co pays, I pay 100% on monthly payments for what seems a lifetime.  Sure I can afford to go to the doc when I am sick and then if I cannot make the payments, guess what, its bankruptcy. Happens all the time, just not to you. But it will.
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I also work, have always worked and am not asking for anything free.  I know there are some bad apples but I think it is the minority. Most Americans are proud and want to earn a living and pay their bills.
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I love you !   :)
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I am so for a one payor system myself, not connected to jobs. All these people that are on unemployment right now are without insurance coverage as well. In my state alone it is 12% unemployed and you must factor in that we are in season right now, and the tourists and snowbirds are here. This is how this state survives. In april when all go back north and the tourism slows, I am concerned as to what is going to happen. The insurance companies and the hospitals cannot agree on a rate between them, so now the hospitals are refusing coverage for insured people from those companies. LOL, Now get that, these people pay the premiums and still have to go to the next county to be treated because the hospitals will not accept their insurance. Where does it all go from here people? Not to mention the fact that in my state, car insurance is a requirement. Get caught without it and your car gets towed and you get a whopping fine on top of that. So if the car insurance companies can manage to do that, then why cannot we devise something to that effect with health care. Oh, I know it is against the constituion? So how is car insurance mandates not? Like I said, all I want is affordable. Too much to ask?

It is all about politics Rory, Simple as that!
The lining of the politicians pockets with the special interest money they get by not allowing reform. No one cares about the people, it just sounds good to say so these days. I think the pres truly does care but will get little to no cooperation in getting anything changed.

I should not have got on this topic today, I fell down the steps at my clients home. My knee, elbow and ribs are skinned up as well as my left ankle all swollen. I can walk on it but it hurts to hi heaven! I hope I did not fracture it. And even if I did, Im stuck with it.
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If you fell at a clients home you could have thier homeowners insurance cover the cost. That is one reason I carry it and it were my home and you did that I would instist that you go.
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OUCH !  Hope your ok.  Get some ice on ......hmmmmmm ....to many places your hurt.   Fill the tub with ice and get in. lol   No really,  hope you didn't do to much damage and feel better soon.
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They saw me fall. It is raining here today and I had my arms full of stuff. I hate to do that to them but if I have to I will. Like a dummy, I never got workers comp insurance so I am not sure how liable they are, but thanks, I will check into it.
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LOL, I jinxed myself didnt I?  Yeah, I got ice on it, Im just hoping the swelling is what is making it hurt. I am so to old to be doing that kind of stuff. The inside joint is all swelled up and looking gross, but I can walk, it does hurt to try to turn or twist it tho. OH, I will live.

Thanks tho, for your concern. :)
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if it was on thier property thier insurance should cover it with no problem. I really wouldn't look at it as "doing that to them" that is what it is for to cover accidents that happen at your home.  I am sorry they saw that happen and didn't offer.
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Thank you so much, I would never have even thought about that. If I continue to have a problem, I will look into it. Your a lifesaver :)
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You are a very wise man, citizen or not, you make more sense to me than anyone I have listened to in a very long time. :) Glad to have you here!
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My comments were not directed to anyone specifically here so as to insulting someone, not sure why.  We simply do not agree on everything.  I've said that I don't think people should be excluded for pre existing conditions, I've said that I favor helping those below the poverty line.  I've said that it is a difficult situation for the working poor.  I've said that changes need to be made.  I'm not in favor of the entire healthcare overhaul that you all speak of.  But I have not been rude about it.  The flat screen tv was an analogy that appears to be very inflamatory. I guess no one understands what I'm saying but me . . . well, not the first time.  Wasn't trying to say people shouldn't have them or bad for buying them.  But we do have a culture of people that "want" and think some things are necessities that in other countries would be flat out luxeries.  My opinion, only.  

But I will say as people discuss current events here, it is attack mode at all times.  Teko, you have NO idea who I am or what my life is like.  I've already been dealt many blows along the way and have my hardships.  Your comment about "it" someday happening to me was rude.  People can disagree with you without ill will wished upon them, can't they?  I've had plenty of misfortune already, thank you very much.  And I'm sure there is more to come.  I do represent how a lot of middle class families feel.  I'm not a bad person for feeling that way.  

Vic, sorry about your fall.  Hope you feel better soon.  

Taking a break from this hostile place.
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Wow! So sorry! I said not one thing directed at you personally. I was responding to words? Not only yours but the general consesnsus of the way people feel in general! in how the general ideas may or may not apply to my personal situation. My response was to the people on the forum as a whole? No where did I say specialmom? My views are also my views, so whats up with that ? Oh, I was the one to take a fall not Vic.

And I am not being hostile by the way. If that is all you got out of my post, sorry for that.
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