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Whooping Cough From The Vaccine?
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/09/vaccine-response-pertussis/
"Physicians from the Kaiser Permanente Medical Center in San Rafael, California say they have found an unexpected amount of pertussis — whooping cough — in pre-teen children who had received their mandatory school-entry vaccination booster at age 5 and should have been protected from the disease until about the time of their final childhood booster dose at age 12."
“The vast majority of these were fully-vaccinated children,” Dr. David Witt, the medical center’s chief of infectious diseases, said in a press briefing during the meeting. “That was the surprise.”
"Physicians from the Kaiser Permanente Medical Center in San Rafael, California say they have found an unexpected amount of pertussis — whooping cough — in pre-teen children who had received their mandatory school-entry vaccination booster at age 5 and should have been protected from the disease until about the time of their final childhood booster dose at age 12."
“The vast majority of these were fully-vaccinated children,” Dr. David Witt, the medical center’s chief of infectious diseases, said in a press briefing during the meeting. “That was the surprise.”
I do get where you guys are coming from...and my kids had all the shots above, except the chicken pox, because I felt those were in their best interest.
I dont want you guys to misunderstand me..I am thankful for some...I just cant change how I feel though just because its not popular...I believe my concerns are valid....but I believe yours are also.
I dont want you guys to misunderstand me..I am thankful for some...I just cant change how I feel though just because its not popular...I believe my concerns are valid....but I believe yours are also.
I will say that before we go to knocking vaccines, we owe it to ourselves to look back in history and remember how it was without them. Progress is not always a bad thing and for what ever reason parents are not getting their children vaccinated and now you are seeing a resurgance of some of those same chldhood diseases that used to kill masses of people. On the other hand, the numerous vaccinations they give chldren to day make you wonder if all are necessary. I still believe in getting vaccinated. I will be getting my flu shot this year and my pneumonia shot as well. Moreso because of those that will not get it than anything. The same reason these childhood diseases are coming back. Just my two cents worth. And I dont trust pharma either but I feel as strongly about vaccinations as I do about pharma and their intentions. I had a childhood friend that had polio. Its awesome that they have a vaccination for it I think. No more polio....But I do see both sides here.
I didn't necessarily mean you saw it as conspiracy. I am referring more to the fact that I have read so much about people calling vaccines conspiracy...they have talked about it as a means of population control to it being about the dollars only. Now, no question pharma gets rich off of these, but many parts of the medical world are getting rich. I guess that's just part of medicine. I just don't see getting rich as meaning the vaccines are wrong. Hope that convaluted sentence made sense..lol.
I'll try to explain a little better why I think denying children vaccines is wrong. The whole reason we no longer worry as much about children being exposed is because of the vaccines. So the more parents that choose to not vaccinate, the stronger the possibility these illness make a comeback. With vaccine not being 100% effective, the risk to all children is greater. Would I call denying vaccine abuse? I probably wouldn't go that far..in fact no, I don't believe it is abuse. I don't know bbx, it is a super complicated issue. And both sides of this debate are fear driven which of course makes it highly emotional. Fear for your childs well being has got to be the most powerful emotion we as moms have. Yours is fear that having some of these vaccines will harm your child, mine is that not having these vaccines will harm. Powerful stuff, no? And it's because we both love and value our children so very much. Hard to find fault there.
I'll try to explain a little better why I think denying children vaccines is wrong. The whole reason we no longer worry as much about children being exposed is because of the vaccines. So the more parents that choose to not vaccinate, the stronger the possibility these illness make a comeback. With vaccine not being 100% effective, the risk to all children is greater. Would I call denying vaccine abuse? I probably wouldn't go that far..in fact no, I don't believe it is abuse. I don't know bbx, it is a super complicated issue. And both sides of this debate are fear driven which of course makes it highly emotional. Fear for your childs well being has got to be the most powerful emotion we as moms have. Yours is fear that having some of these vaccines will harm your child, mine is that not having these vaccines will harm. Powerful stuff, no? And it's because we both love and value our children so very much. Hard to find fault there.
You and I often disagree on things, but for what its worth, I dont doubt your love as a mother, and I agree... we both want the best, but just see the best as something different.
I do understand your fear... I really do... I just really believe you are decieved into thinking the more vaccines the safer your child is. I just do not beleive that. You cant just mix all these viruses together in one person and not have something go awry. Its my opinion.
I dont think its fair for your concerns to be more valid than our concerns as parents.
I dont think by refusing SOME shots I would be risking my childs life. I do think by combining all these things...it very well may cause them to have autoimmune, cancers, and more...not to mention the unlucky ones that do get ill or die from the shots. Again, I am not against ALL of them....but I am against being forced to have them...I want to pick and chose which I feel are best for myself and my children.
Denying your child an opperation when he HAS an emergency is abuse. Forcing someone to inject their child or themselves IN CASE they were to be exposed to something is completely different, especially since shots carry risks. I do get your worry though...in my opinion its not a conspiracy thought (dont know where you heard that) to not trust the drug company. I dont know about conspiracy...I just know they are greedy money hungry people that willl lie if it benefits them...(just my opinon)...been there.... and they are smart enought to use fear to get people to buy their line....in my opinion, at the cost of lives, and if not at the cost of quality of life at times. Anyway....guess we just have to agree to disagree.
I dont think its fair for your concerns to be more valid than our concerns as parents.
I dont think by refusing SOME shots I would be risking my childs life. I do think by combining all these things...it very well may cause them to have autoimmune, cancers, and more...not to mention the unlucky ones that do get ill or die from the shots. Again, I am not against ALL of them....but I am against being forced to have them...I want to pick and chose which I feel are best for myself and my children.
Denying your child an opperation when he HAS an emergency is abuse. Forcing someone to inject their child or themselves IN CASE they were to be exposed to something is completely different, especially since shots carry risks. I do get your worry though...in my opinion its not a conspiracy thought (dont know where you heard that) to not trust the drug company. I dont know about conspiracy...I just know they are greedy money hungry people that willl lie if it benefits them...(just my opinon)...been there.... and they are smart enought to use fear to get people to buy their line....in my opinion, at the cost of lives, and if not at the cost of quality of life at times. Anyway....guess we just have to agree to disagree.
And my dear, this isn't about sides. At the end of the day both of us are mothers who want whats best for our children right? So we are on the same side, just see the path to getting their as slightly different. No, we will probably never agree on this issue...we are both products of our own experiences. But I do like discussing it with you. Trust me, I don't discount what you say at all. I don't even disagree with all of it. We both are weighing risk vs. benefit, and are coming out on different sides.
I know you feel the way you do, and given your personal experience I even understand why you feel that way.
But I just don't see this as conspiracy. Plus, I live in terror that my child will get one of these diseases even though I do everything in my power to protect him. And this is not the same thing as abortion...I cannot see the link there at all. An adult does have the right to make decisions about their own health and bodies. A child cannot. My son is 20 months old, so it is up to me to make those decisions. I see this the same as parents refusing to allow their child to have a life saving medical procedure. Say he had appendicitis. And I was refusing to allow him to have his appendix out, knowing he might die. But instead chose an alternative medical route or even just prayer. Now, I do respect parental rights, but not when it comes to potentially risking their childs life. I know you strongly disagree, but I hope you can see where I am coming from on this. I am scared..terrified actually of him getting something deadly because someone else chose not to vaccinate. Does that make more sense?
But I just don't see this as conspiracy. Plus, I live in terror that my child will get one of these diseases even though I do everything in my power to protect him. And this is not the same thing as abortion...I cannot see the link there at all. An adult does have the right to make decisions about their own health and bodies. A child cannot. My son is 20 months old, so it is up to me to make those decisions. I see this the same as parents refusing to allow their child to have a life saving medical procedure. Say he had appendicitis. And I was refusing to allow him to have his appendix out, knowing he might die. But instead chose an alternative medical route or even just prayer. Now, I do respect parental rights, but not when it comes to potentially risking their childs life. I know you strongly disagree, but I hope you can see where I am coming from on this. I am scared..terrified actually of him getting something deadly because someone else chose not to vaccinate. Does that make more sense?
lol I know your views and understand how you can feel that way...but theres no way I can agree. There is strong research against the views you take (and also against the views I take) but...your side has a heck of a lot more money and power...
I was checking yesterday...here is the list of vaccines put in our kids already...
chickenpox
diptheria
influenza b
hep a
hep b
measles
mumps
whooping cough
polio
pneumonia
rotovirus
rubella
tetanus
meningitus
and people want more......
Peoples blind faith in the pharma is insane. Sorry, but lots of us are fighting for our childrens health...we are just fighting differently than how you are fighting.
Anyway....I know we wont agree...you can inject more stuff in ur child if you want to... but no thanks. Its hypocritical for you think a woman has the right to decide what goes in her body when it comes to abortion and then when it comes to shots she is suppose to have no rightl..because you feel its best for society....
The above list is more than enough. As strongly as you feel your way, I feel my way...so I guess no sense in discussing it. The happy news for you is the government and pharma has all the power in this country, so your way will no doubt win...and it will be mandatory to be injected with more and more and more.. and meanwhile people get sicker which in turn means even more money for the gov and pharma. I have never been against all vaccines..but if it comes down to all or nothing....I am going for my rights to my body and my childrens.....(and I am not angry at you...just extremely passionate about my rights to my body and my childrens as well)
I was checking yesterday...here is the list of vaccines put in our kids already...
chickenpox
diptheria
influenza b
hep a
hep b
measles
mumps
whooping cough
polio
pneumonia
rotovirus
rubella
tetanus
meningitus
and people want more......
Peoples blind faith in the pharma is insane. Sorry, but lots of us are fighting for our childrens health...we are just fighting differently than how you are fighting.
Anyway....I know we wont agree...you can inject more stuff in ur child if you want to... but no thanks. Its hypocritical for you think a woman has the right to decide what goes in her body when it comes to abortion and then when it comes to shots she is suppose to have no rightl..because you feel its best for society....
The above list is more than enough. As strongly as you feel your way, I feel my way...so I guess no sense in discussing it. The happy news for you is the government and pharma has all the power in this country, so your way will no doubt win...and it will be mandatory to be injected with more and more and more.. and meanwhile people get sicker which in turn means even more money for the gov and pharma. I have never been against all vaccines..but if it comes down to all or nothing....I am going for my rights to my body and my childrens.....(and I am not angry at you...just extremely passionate about my rights to my body and my childrens as well)
Well, if you want my honest opinion (and you probably won't like it..lol), I am becoming more and more pro making parents vaccinate their children.
I had a very long conversation with my son's pediatrician about this issue, and it was prompted by reading about the resurrgance of many of these diseases.
Vaccines are not 100% protective when it comes to our children getting these illness's. They work best if everyone is vaccinated. It's the only way to protect our kids. That's why I get madder then a hatter when parents don't vaccinate for no reason (I understand some children have medical reasons why they shouldn't be..that's a different story). But it seems parents have forgotten how sick these kids can get...and die. So to protect their "rights" they choose not to vaccinate.
There is also the fact that many of these virus's and bacterial diseases mutate. Vaccines over time become less effective, so yes, it's very likely further vaccines are necessary. That's just life. Science has proven that happens.
Vaccinations cannot give you the illness. They use dead dna strands. So it is enough to introduce the illness to our immune systems rendering us almost immune to it, but not enough to make us sick.
For me, I'll take the vaccination. If you look at the percentages of people that have trouble with vaccines, and have had vaccines before with no trouble, then there is no doubt in my mind your fine. But if you look at the percentages of people (especially small children and the elderly) who die from diseases like this? It's a far far greater number. Look at the mortality rate prior to having vaccine available. For me, this is an easy decision. My family is up to date on our vaccines, and I will keep it that way. Yep, that includes annual flu shots (H1N1 included..and yes I took it while pregnant as well).
And I am continuing on my mission to not allow unvaccinated children into our school system. And up until recently I was not pro making it illegal to not vaccinate. I'm beginning to change my thinking. I'm sick of hearing about small children dying because parents believe that being forced to vaccinate is a violation of their "rights". That's fighting a cause just because it's there, it's not acting in the best interest of your children. Sorry, strong words I know, but it's an issue I feel strongly about.
I had a very long conversation with my son's pediatrician about this issue, and it was prompted by reading about the resurrgance of many of these diseases.
Vaccines are not 100% protective when it comes to our children getting these illness's. They work best if everyone is vaccinated. It's the only way to protect our kids. That's why I get madder then a hatter when parents don't vaccinate for no reason (I understand some children have medical reasons why they shouldn't be..that's a different story). But it seems parents have forgotten how sick these kids can get...and die. So to protect their "rights" they choose not to vaccinate.
There is also the fact that many of these virus's and bacterial diseases mutate. Vaccines over time become less effective, so yes, it's very likely further vaccines are necessary. That's just life. Science has proven that happens.
Vaccinations cannot give you the illness. They use dead dna strands. So it is enough to introduce the illness to our immune systems rendering us almost immune to it, but not enough to make us sick.
For me, I'll take the vaccination. If you look at the percentages of people that have trouble with vaccines, and have had vaccines before with no trouble, then there is no doubt in my mind your fine. But if you look at the percentages of people (especially small children and the elderly) who die from diseases like this? It's a far far greater number. Look at the mortality rate prior to having vaccine available. For me, this is an easy decision. My family is up to date on our vaccines, and I will keep it that way. Yep, that includes annual flu shots (H1N1 included..and yes I took it while pregnant as well).
And I am continuing on my mission to not allow unvaccinated children into our school system. And up until recently I was not pro making it illegal to not vaccinate. I'm beginning to change my thinking. I'm sick of hearing about small children dying because parents believe that being forced to vaccinate is a violation of their "rights". That's fighting a cause just because it's there, it's not acting in the best interest of your children. Sorry, strong words I know, but it's an issue I feel strongly about.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/09/vaccine-response-pertussis/
Ok, so hear me out. I have my distrust of big pharma.... but I also know some meds and some shots are important and helpful.
The reason I am posting this...is my childs school sent a note saying that that pertusses (whooping cough) is now in the school. I thought to myself...no big deal...my child was vaccinated against that. Then I get up this morning and read the local paper...
it says in a larger school in our area there have been 40 cases of it in the area...sickening kids and adults. What surprised me (although it should not have) was that it said ALL of the students in the past 2 weeks that have contracted it, have HAD all their shots against it! Now....they did NOT say ALL students totalled had been vaccinated properly against this, but regardless..its not very comforting to see you can still get it and spread if you had the shot. The CDC also admits to this...
"Vaccinated children and adults can become infected with and transmit pertussis; however, disease is less likely to be severe. "
http://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/fast-facts.html
They (cdc) also think the majority of the illness are due to those not vaccinated and they also think the vaccines are not working as well..so are suggesting more shots...
My distrust of the pharma makes me wonder...what if the kids with the vaccine are giving it to the kids without it? (just something to think about...though not popular)
Soooo what is the answer here? I dont know. I would like to have precise numbers on who has and who hasnt been vaccinated and caught the disease... and those numbers would only be good to me if they came from someone with no connections to big pharm/gov.
Either way, this is rather annoying...my kids had their shots..however....are the shots any good or are they causing the outbreak? I doubt any of us will ever know. Meanwhile...
They are telling teens & adults to get vaccinated...right...which risk is greater?
The reason I am posting this...is my childs school sent a note saying that that pertusses (whooping cough) is now in the school. I thought to myself...no big deal...my child was vaccinated against that. Then I get up this morning and read the local paper...
it says in a larger school in our area there have been 40 cases of it in the area...sickening kids and adults. What surprised me (although it should not have) was that it said ALL of the students in the past 2 weeks that have contracted it, have HAD all their shots against it! Now....they did NOT say ALL students totalled had been vaccinated properly against this, but regardless..its not very comforting to see you can still get it and spread if you had the shot. The CDC also admits to this...
"Vaccinated children and adults can become infected with and transmit pertussis; however, disease is less likely to be severe. "
http://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/fast-facts.html
They (cdc) also think the majority of the illness are due to those not vaccinated and they also think the vaccines are not working as well..so are suggesting more shots...
My distrust of the pharma makes me wonder...what if the kids with the vaccine are giving it to the kids without it? (just something to think about...though not popular)
Soooo what is the answer here? I dont know. I would like to have precise numbers on who has and who hasnt been vaccinated and caught the disease... and those numbers would only be good to me if they came from someone with no connections to big pharm/gov.
Either way, this is rather annoying...my kids had their shots..however....are the shots any good or are they causing the outbreak? I doubt any of us will ever know. Meanwhile...
They are telling teens & adults to get vaccinated...right...which risk is greater?
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