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ACLU Threatens N.J. High School With Legal Action Over Graduation at Christian-Owned Site
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/17/aclu-threatens-legal-action-nj-high-school-amendment-dispute/
A New Jersey high school with a 70-year tradition of hosting graduation ceremonies in a historic auditorium is standing firm against legal threats from the American Civil Liberties Union, which claims the event violates the separation of church and state because of the Christian-owned site's religious displays.
For generations, graduates of Neptune High School have walked down the aisle of the Great Auditorium in Ocean Grove, where the impressive 6,500-seat venue dominates the landscape of one of the area’s most historic beach towns. Built in 1894, the auditorium is owned and operated by the Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association, a Methodist group that owns not just the building, but all of the land beneath every home and structure in town.
The ACLU of New Jersey threatened legal action against the Neptune school district after an attendee at last year’s graduation ceremony took offense to the building’s religious symbols and Christian-based references -- among them a 20-foot white cross above the auditorium’s entrance. The ACLU asked the school to remove or cover up the cross and three other religious signs, arguing their visibility during a public school event is a First Amendment violation.
School officials responded by agreeing to change the graduation program to remove the student-led invocation and two hymns -- one titled “Onward Christian Soldiers” -- to rid the ceremony of any religious references.
“The program was not of a religious nature -- it was more tradition than anything else,” said Neptune Public Schools Superintendent David Mooij. “But we decided we would change the program and delete the things this individual found offensive.”
Removing or covering up the cross was another matter. The Camp Association said it could not cover the cross, said to have been a gift from movie director Woody Allen, who used the auditorium during shooting for the 1980 film "Stardust Memories." Nor would they cover up the two illuminated indoor signs – “Holiest to the Lord” and “So Be Ye Holy” – which are said to be the oldest operating electric signs in America.
“The Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association is a Christian ministry, and we can’t change who we are,” said Scott Hoffman, the group’s chief operating officer. “We want this tradition to keep going as badly as anyone, but not at the expense of who we are.”
Mooij said the ACLU then requested that the school change its venue for the June 17 graduation – a move he said isn’t feasible. “We already printed 3,000 tickets, and there’s no comparable size venue anywhere around us.”
Mooij said the school board received a letter on Thursday from the ACLU saying they would “likely have to take legal recourse” if their demands to cover the cross and signs were not met.
An ACLU spokeswoman would not comment on what, if any, legal action is pending, saying only that the organization is working to resolve the matter through negotiations with the school.
The Great Auditorium, a nationally recognized landmark, is steeped in history. The building has hosted Ulysses S. Grant and six other U.S. presidents, as well as 27 of New Jersey’s governors. Mark Twain was a member of the auditorium’s board of directors, and religious leaders like the Rev. Billy Graham have spoken there.
The auditorium also functions as a concert venue for many secular events and has hosted acts as varied as the Beach Boys, Frank Sinatra Jr., and Peter, Paul and Mary.
As for now, Mooij said the school has every intention of sticking with its graduation plans.
“There’s a lot of tradition in this community about using this building,” he said. “We’re hoping that it could be resolved through negotiations,” he said, “But we aren’t there yet.”
A New Jersey high school with a 70-year tradition of hosting graduation ceremonies in a historic auditorium is standing firm against legal threats from the American Civil Liberties Union, which claims the event violates the separation of church and state because of the Christian-owned site's religious displays.
For generations, graduates of Neptune High School have walked down the aisle of the Great Auditorium in Ocean Grove, where the impressive 6,500-seat venue dominates the landscape of one of the area’s most historic beach towns. Built in 1894, the auditorium is owned and operated by the Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association, a Methodist group that owns not just the building, but all of the land beneath every home and structure in town.
The ACLU of New Jersey threatened legal action against the Neptune school district after an attendee at last year’s graduation ceremony took offense to the building’s religious symbols and Christian-based references -- among them a 20-foot white cross above the auditorium’s entrance. The ACLU asked the school to remove or cover up the cross and three other religious signs, arguing their visibility during a public school event is a First Amendment violation.
School officials responded by agreeing to change the graduation program to remove the student-led invocation and two hymns -- one titled “Onward Christian Soldiers” -- to rid the ceremony of any religious references.
“The program was not of a religious nature -- it was more tradition than anything else,” said Neptune Public Schools Superintendent David Mooij. “But we decided we would change the program and delete the things this individual found offensive.”
Removing or covering up the cross was another matter. The Camp Association said it could not cover the cross, said to have been a gift from movie director Woody Allen, who used the auditorium during shooting for the 1980 film "Stardust Memories." Nor would they cover up the two illuminated indoor signs – “Holiest to the Lord” and “So Be Ye Holy” – which are said to be the oldest operating electric signs in America.
“The Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association is a Christian ministry, and we can’t change who we are,” said Scott Hoffman, the group’s chief operating officer. “We want this tradition to keep going as badly as anyone, but not at the expense of who we are.”
Mooij said the ACLU then requested that the school change its venue for the June 17 graduation – a move he said isn’t feasible. “We already printed 3,000 tickets, and there’s no comparable size venue anywhere around us.”
Mooij said the school board received a letter on Thursday from the ACLU saying they would “likely have to take legal recourse” if their demands to cover the cross and signs were not met.
An ACLU spokeswoman would not comment on what, if any, legal action is pending, saying only that the organization is working to resolve the matter through negotiations with the school.
The Great Auditorium, a nationally recognized landmark, is steeped in history. The building has hosted Ulysses S. Grant and six other U.S. presidents, as well as 27 of New Jersey’s governors. Mark Twain was a member of the auditorium’s board of directors, and religious leaders like the Rev. Billy Graham have spoken there.
The auditorium also functions as a concert venue for many secular events and has hosted acts as varied as the Beach Boys, Frank Sinatra Jr., and Peter, Paul and Mary.
As for now, Mooij said the school has every intention of sticking with its graduation plans.
“There’s a lot of tradition in this community about using this building,” he said. “We’re hoping that it could be resolved through negotiations,” he said, “But we aren’t there yet.”
Well, I am not offended at all by your beliefs or lack of beliefs. :)
I actually think people on here have all been pretty much able to agree or not and move on. I appreciate that.
I actually think people on here have all been pretty much able to agree or not and move on. I appreciate that.
It's times like this that I'm happy I'm an atheist.
Teach about God, don't teach about God. Speak about God, don't speak about God. Mention God in a speech, don't mention God in a speech. Preach to me about God, don't preach to me about God. It matters not to me. I welcome all comers.
Religion is actually one of my FAVORITE topics of conversation, along with politics & sex.
Being completely & utterly neutral when it comes to religion is sometimes a blessing, as in cases like this.
In the same sentence, I'll say that I absolutely abhor atheist's & agnostic's that protest, and speak out, and make a stink about the word "God" or "Jesus" or "Religion". They give atheist's a bad name, and make it extremely difficult for people like me, that just don't care one way or another, to have intelligent conversations with people like you guys.
I find that when the subject of religion comes up, and a conversation ensues, people tend to be offended when I tell them that I'm an atheist. It's okay for everyone involved in the discussion to be whatever religion they are, but when I'm asked and I answer "atheist", I get really dirty looks (when I'm among strangers that is... my friends accept me for what I am and know that I'm not "one of THOSE" atheist's).
Neutral I am, and neutral I will remain.
Teach about God, don't teach about God. Speak about God, don't speak about God. Mention God in a speech, don't mention God in a speech. Preach to me about God, don't preach to me about God. It matters not to me. I welcome all comers.
Religion is actually one of my FAVORITE topics of conversation, along with politics & sex.
Being completely & utterly neutral when it comes to religion is sometimes a blessing, as in cases like this.
In the same sentence, I'll say that I absolutely abhor atheist's & agnostic's that protest, and speak out, and make a stink about the word "God" or "Jesus" or "Religion". They give atheist's a bad name, and make it extremely difficult for people like me, that just don't care one way or another, to have intelligent conversations with people like you guys.
I find that when the subject of religion comes up, and a conversation ensues, people tend to be offended when I tell them that I'm an atheist. It's okay for everyone involved in the discussion to be whatever religion they are, but when I'm asked and I answer "atheist", I get really dirty looks (when I'm among strangers that is... my friends accept me for what I am and know that I'm not "one of THOSE" atheist's).
Neutral I am, and neutral I will remain.
No, it's fine. Ask away. I love telling people about how things are here. As you know, there are many misconceptions. Right now the Catholic Church is the only one with an official seperate school board. However, you do not necessarily have to be a Catholic to send your child there, just a parent who wants their child schooled in a Christian enviroment. I am officially a Catholic, but do not attend the Catholic Church (I know, makes no sense, but I have my reasons). There are many faith based schools around and typically not a high cost of sending your child there as usually it is connected to a specific Church, Synagogue, Mosque, whatever the case may be so it is low or no cost for Children to attend. That specific faith basically supports the school. But in terms of diverting taxes, right now it's only public or seperate, and seperate is the Catholic Church.
Yes, homeschooling is allowed providing certain curiculum is followed. The tests at various points are administered by the School Board to ensure the child is keeping up. YOu can also apply for a home schooling teacher to come in to your home for certain subjects, although this is typically only free if there is a medical issue (including mental health issues) that prohibit a child from attending. However, home schooling is very much supported here and lots do it.
Ask me anything anytime. I love talking about Canada.
Yes, homeschooling is allowed providing certain curiculum is followed. The tests at various points are administered by the School Board to ensure the child is keeping up. YOu can also apply for a home schooling teacher to come in to your home for certain subjects, although this is typically only free if there is a medical issue (including mental health issues) that prohibit a child from attending. However, home schooling is very much supported here and lots do it.
Ask me anything anytime. I love talking about Canada.
Oh dont worry, you know a ot more about my country than I do yours and thats actually a shame.
Do they allow the parents to send the kids to other religious schools besides Catholic?
Do they allow parents to homeschool there?
Sorry, not trying to have a billion questions, I was just wondering lol
Do they allow the parents to send the kids to other religious schools besides Catholic?
Do they allow parents to homeschool there?
Sorry, not trying to have a billion questions, I was just wondering lol
I truly admire your committment to your faith.
You mentioned an interesting point...the tax payers having the choice. That is something else we do here, so I just assumed it was the same there. I need to remember that as similar as we are, there are some differences.
We can divert the portion of our tax that goes to the school system to either Public School or what we call the Seperate School System (basically, the Catholic Schools). That way parents that cannot afford private school, but want their children attending school in a Christian envioronment with prayer have the option without the extra cost. It's just done through that portion of our tax that we pay anyway. I really thought it was the same there.
You mentioned an interesting point...the tax payers having the choice. That is something else we do here, so I just assumed it was the same there. I need to remember that as similar as we are, there are some differences.
We can divert the portion of our tax that goes to the school system to either Public School or what we call the Seperate School System (basically, the Catholic Schools). That way parents that cannot afford private school, but want their children attending school in a Christian envioronment with prayer have the option without the extra cost. It's just done through that portion of our tax that we pay anyway. I really thought it was the same there.
I realize some may be wondering if I went and causes a stink trying to get the town to pay for my kids or if I would sue the town etc... the answer is no. I did not do that.
I am fortunate in that I have experience with public school, private school, and homeschooling. Good and bad in all three of them.
I am fortunate in that I have experience with public school, private school, and homeschooling. Good and bad in all three of them.
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