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After vote allowing gay kids to become Boy Scouts, some families call it quits
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/30/18633729-after-vote-allowing-gay-kids-to-become-boy-scouts-some-families-call-it-quits?lite
The father of a Cub Scout sat his son on his lap late last week and told him news that tore up both their hearts: The family was leaving the Boy Scouts.
Aaron Butler, the leader of his 8-year-old son Evan’s Cub Scout Wolf den in Roseau, Minn., said he didn't explain to his eldest son exactly why they were walking away from an organization they loved so much, but he told NBC News that it was because of last week's controversial decision by the Boy Scouts of America to allow gay youth to participate.
“It was a big disappointment. He cried for about 10 minutes because I told him that Boy Scouts were not honoring their own law," Butler said, referring to the BSA oath that he interpreted as barring gay people. "They say it -- 'On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep [myself] physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight,'” he said.
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“If the BSA cannot honor its own law, then how can I stay with an organization that just does not care anymore?” he said.
As many Scouts and families rejoiced over the BSA's decision to partly end the membership guidelines that had drawn criticism from supporters of LGBT rights both inside and outside the organization, many others decried the move, with some BSA members making the tough choice to pull out of one of the nation's most popular youth organizations.
“I feel pretty bad about it,” Evan told NBC News, noting he liked the camp-outs, and archery and slingshot activities he enjoyed in Pack 56. He said that he understood there was a vote that led to his parents’ decision. He explained that he understood it as: “It was between honor and God, and not honoring God. And [not] honoring God got more votes.”
“It was something that we all enjoyed, we loved every week of it,” said Butler, 30, who works at a window and door manufacturer. “It's a shame that BSA had just caved like a deck of cards.”
Caved, Butler said, to pressure from activists to let gay youth join the group. The vote was approved by 61 percent of the 1,232 National Council delegates who cast a ballot at the BSA's annual meeting one week ago (another 168 delegates -- or about 12 percent of the total delegates -- were not present to cast a ballot).
“There were divisions about how to serve kids,” Tico Perez, the BSA national commissioner, said immediately after the vote. “If we have disagreement, if we have discomfort, we are going to talk through it. America needs Scouting.”
“Our singular focus moving forward is serving more kids in Scouting, and we believe this resolution is going to do that,” he added.
When asked about families saying they would leave over the decision, BSA President Wayne Perry said last week: “We think that on reflection that many of these people will decide that the best place for their kids is in Scouting.”
A week on, BSA spokesman Deron Smith said the group couldn't yet quantify the impact of the amended policy. Most organizations that charter Scouting units were continuing with the program, but some had decided not to renew – in which case BSA executives would work with troop leadership to identify a suitable partner and ensure a smooth transition, he said.
“Our local council professionals and volunteers are reaching out to our all chartered partners to review the policy and answer questions they have,” he wrote in an email. “We are finding that when people read the new policy they see it is reflective of the beliefs of most of Scouting’s major religious chartered organizations.”
Not so for Mike A. Miller, a union electrician in Mount Holly, N.C., who said he was pulling his 9-year-old son, Cody, out of the Cub Scouts and would step down as assistant den leader of Pack 45. Monday will be his son's advancement ceremony to Webelos – as far as he will go with the organization.
He said he talked to Cody before the vote – after it was announced in February – so it wouldn't be a one-time conversation.
“It was hard to explain to a 9-year-old the complexities of why I was telling him that we had to quit,” Miller said. “He told me, 'Daddy, it should be like church. Everybody should be welcome.'”
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Miller said he then told Cody that the point of going to church is to seek forgiveness — not for being all-inclusive.
“I said, 'These people aren’t asking for your forgiveness,'” Miller, 51, told NBC News in a telephone interview. “What they're doing is saying, 'this is what I am and you have to accept me like I am. I'm not coming to try to change.'
"Be it right, wrong or indifferent, the Bible that I read says [homosexuality is] a sin,” he said.
Miller said he and other families that would leave were talking about continuing some kind of program for the boys. He said he was going to look into an alternative faith-based group being put together by On My Honor — an organization started by a Florida dad and Scout volunteer, and composed of families and outside groups that oppose allowing gay youths and adults in the Boy Scouts.
As for adult leaders and volunteers, Boy Scouts officials last week said there would be no change to the adult membership policy, which excludes gays.
That means that after a boy turns 18, he would graduate from the Boy Scouts and have to apply to become an adult leader – when the membership policy barring gays would apply.
Gay rights activists pledged to continue their campaign to include adults even as they applauded the vote. They acknowledged there could be some attrition, but said the decision was the first step in the right direction for the organization.
“Even though I think that there will probably still be a few folks who choose to walk away … I think this is the beginning of the rebound of Scouting in America,” Zach Wahls, founder of Scouts for Equality, said after the vote.
Back in Roseau, Aaron Butler lamented that his sons – he has a younger boy, 6-year-old Emmett – would not achieve the Boy Scouts' highest honor of being an Eagle Scout and all of the recognition that comes with it.
He said he had prayed weekly that the BSA “would stay straight.” Now that the vote has come and gone, he and another den leader would plot the next activity for the boys, “because we have to fill that vacuum with something good.”
“The Boy Scouts gave us a sense of pride. They have done so much for all these kids … they have made a lot of these kids full of integrity and that’s what they teach – they did teach,” he said.
The father of a Cub Scout sat his son on his lap late last week and told him news that tore up both their hearts: The family was leaving the Boy Scouts.
Aaron Butler, the leader of his 8-year-old son Evan’s Cub Scout Wolf den in Roseau, Minn., said he didn't explain to his eldest son exactly why they were walking away from an organization they loved so much, but he told NBC News that it was because of last week's controversial decision by the Boy Scouts of America to allow gay youth to participate.
“It was a big disappointment. He cried for about 10 minutes because I told him that Boy Scouts were not honoring their own law," Butler said, referring to the BSA oath that he interpreted as barring gay people. "They say it -- 'On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep [myself] physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight,'” he said.
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“If the BSA cannot honor its own law, then how can I stay with an organization that just does not care anymore?” he said.
As many Scouts and families rejoiced over the BSA's decision to partly end the membership guidelines that had drawn criticism from supporters of LGBT rights both inside and outside the organization, many others decried the move, with some BSA members making the tough choice to pull out of one of the nation's most popular youth organizations.
“I feel pretty bad about it,” Evan told NBC News, noting he liked the camp-outs, and archery and slingshot activities he enjoyed in Pack 56. He said that he understood there was a vote that led to his parents’ decision. He explained that he understood it as: “It was between honor and God, and not honoring God. And [not] honoring God got more votes.”
“It was something that we all enjoyed, we loved every week of it,” said Butler, 30, who works at a window and door manufacturer. “It's a shame that BSA had just caved like a deck of cards.”
Caved, Butler said, to pressure from activists to let gay youth join the group. The vote was approved by 61 percent of the 1,232 National Council delegates who cast a ballot at the BSA's annual meeting one week ago (another 168 delegates -- or about 12 percent of the total delegates -- were not present to cast a ballot).
“There were divisions about how to serve kids,” Tico Perez, the BSA national commissioner, said immediately after the vote. “If we have disagreement, if we have discomfort, we are going to talk through it. America needs Scouting.”
“Our singular focus moving forward is serving more kids in Scouting, and we believe this resolution is going to do that,” he added.
When asked about families saying they would leave over the decision, BSA President Wayne Perry said last week: “We think that on reflection that many of these people will decide that the best place for their kids is in Scouting.”
A week on, BSA spokesman Deron Smith said the group couldn't yet quantify the impact of the amended policy. Most organizations that charter Scouting units were continuing with the program, but some had decided not to renew – in which case BSA executives would work with troop leadership to identify a suitable partner and ensure a smooth transition, he said.
“Our local council professionals and volunteers are reaching out to our all chartered partners to review the policy and answer questions they have,” he wrote in an email. “We are finding that when people read the new policy they see it is reflective of the beliefs of most of Scouting’s major religious chartered organizations.”
Not so for Mike A. Miller, a union electrician in Mount Holly, N.C., who said he was pulling his 9-year-old son, Cody, out of the Cub Scouts and would step down as assistant den leader of Pack 45. Monday will be his son's advancement ceremony to Webelos – as far as he will go with the organization.
He said he talked to Cody before the vote – after it was announced in February – so it wouldn't be a one-time conversation.
“It was hard to explain to a 9-year-old the complexities of why I was telling him that we had to quit,” Miller said. “He told me, 'Daddy, it should be like church. Everybody should be welcome.'”
Advertise | AdChoices
Miller said he then told Cody that the point of going to church is to seek forgiveness — not for being all-inclusive.
“I said, 'These people aren’t asking for your forgiveness,'” Miller, 51, told NBC News in a telephone interview. “What they're doing is saying, 'this is what I am and you have to accept me like I am. I'm not coming to try to change.'
"Be it right, wrong or indifferent, the Bible that I read says [homosexuality is] a sin,” he said.
Miller said he and other families that would leave were talking about continuing some kind of program for the boys. He said he was going to look into an alternative faith-based group being put together by On My Honor — an organization started by a Florida dad and Scout volunteer, and composed of families and outside groups that oppose allowing gay youths and adults in the Boy Scouts.
As for adult leaders and volunteers, Boy Scouts officials last week said there would be no change to the adult membership policy, which excludes gays.
That means that after a boy turns 18, he would graduate from the Boy Scouts and have to apply to become an adult leader – when the membership policy barring gays would apply.
Gay rights activists pledged to continue their campaign to include adults even as they applauded the vote. They acknowledged there could be some attrition, but said the decision was the first step in the right direction for the organization.
“Even though I think that there will probably still be a few folks who choose to walk away … I think this is the beginning of the rebound of Scouting in America,” Zach Wahls, founder of Scouts for Equality, said after the vote.
Back in Roseau, Aaron Butler lamented that his sons – he has a younger boy, 6-year-old Emmett – would not achieve the Boy Scouts' highest honor of being an Eagle Scout and all of the recognition that comes with it.
He said he had prayed weekly that the BSA “would stay straight.” Now that the vote has come and gone, he and another den leader would plot the next activity for the boys, “because we have to fill that vacuum with something good.”
“The Boy Scouts gave us a sense of pride. They have done so much for all these kids … they have made a lot of these kids full of integrity and that’s what they teach – they did teach,” he said.
.I do understand and It's both! If the Courts rule in her favor and Parents pull their kids out of public schools, will they be criticized? We're back to the issue of lines/boundaries
You are taking this as a moral issue not as a civil rights issue, that's why you don't understand.
If you accept that we are born in certain ways, no better or worse, no judgement then this is a no brainer. If you cannot accept it as something that just is like left-handedness then you will feel uncomfortable with the acceptance of these folks, bottom line.
We either agree on this or don't agree. I know where you are coming from and I understand but I don't agree.
If you accept that we are born in certain ways, no better or worse, no judgement then this is a no brainer. If you cannot accept it as something that just is like left-handedness then you will feel uncomfortable with the acceptance of these folks, bottom line.
We either agree on this or don't agree. I know where you are coming from and I understand but I don't agree.
"I know I am repeating myself, but where will the Lines or Boundaries be drawn? Will one day, Boy’s be allowed in The Girl Scouts? Will the parents be condemned because they refuse to allow their Daughters to hang out with Little Boys Dressed in a Girl Scout Uniform, going door to door selling Cookies? It sounds silly until you think about it."
Transgender student suit goes to Maine high court
"Nicole Maines, now 15, watched lawyers argue over whether her rights were violated when the Orono school district required her to use a staff bathroom after there was a complaint about her using the girls' bathroom."
"Maines is a biological male who from an early age identified as a girl."
http://news.yahoo.com/transgender-student-suit-goes-maine-high-court-153230913.html
Transgender student suit goes to Maine high court
"Nicole Maines, now 15, watched lawyers argue over whether her rights were violated when the Orono school district required her to use a staff bathroom after there was a complaint about her using the girls' bathroom."
"Maines is a biological male who from an early age identified as a girl."
http://news.yahoo.com/transgender-student-suit-goes-maine-high-court-153230913.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1556756
Previous investigations have indicated that the ratio of sex offenders against female children vs. offenders against male children is approximately 2:1
Please show me an updated study that states homosexuals are more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexuals.
The commonly accepted view is that people who sexually assault children do not have a gender preference so much as they have a desire to dominate and sexually abuse children.
I think of it like rape. A rapist does not "love" women. He is not attracted to the woman he assaults, he wants to overpower aher and violate her. It is an act of violence, a pathetic grab for power by abusing someone weaker than himself.
Previous investigations have indicated that the ratio of sex offenders against female children vs. offenders against male children is approximately 2:1
Please show me an updated study that states homosexuals are more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexuals.
The commonly accepted view is that people who sexually assault children do not have a gender preference so much as they have a desire to dominate and sexually abuse children.
I think of it like rape. A rapist does not "love" women. He is not attracted to the woman he assaults, he wants to overpower aher and violate her. It is an act of violence, a pathetic grab for power by abusing someone weaker than himself.
The sited people of Groth and Birnbaum study done in 1978. A lot has changed including people coming out and also being bi. I take there study with a grain of salt since the world has changed.
Okay when answering your post I realized that I need more information, I too have gaps in my understanding of these issues.
I recommend you click on the link and read it all, it very clearly explains what child molestation is and how it is not related to ones sexual orientation.
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
problem related to terminology arises because sexual abuse of male children by adult men2 is often referred to as "homosexual molestation." The adjective "homosexual" (or "heterosexual" when a man abuses a female child) refers to the victim's gender in relation to that of the perpetrator. Unfortunately, people sometimes mistakenly interpret it as referring to the perpetrator's sexual orientation.
To avoid this confusion, it is preferable to refer to men's sexual abuse of boys with the more accurate label of male-male molestation. Similarly, it is preferable to refer to men's abuse of girls as male-female molestation. These labels are more accurate because they describe the sex of the individuals involved but don't implicitly convey unwarranted assumptions about the perpetrator's sexual orientation.
Typologies of
Offenders The distinction between a victim's gender and a perpetrator's sexual orientation is important because many child molesters don't really have an adult sexual orientation. They have never developed the capacity for mature sexual relationships with other adults, either men or women. Instead, their sexual attractions focus on children – boys, girls, or children of both sexes.
Over the years, this fact has been incorporated into various systems for categorizing child molesters. For example, Finkelhor and Araji (1986) proposed that perpetrators' sexual attractions should be conceptualized as ranging along a continuum – from exclusive interest in children at one extreme, to exclusive interest in adult partners at the other end.
Typologies of offenders have often included a distinction between those with an enduring primary preference for children as sexual partners and those who have established age-appropriate relationships but become sexually involved with children under unusual circumstances of extreme stress. Perpetrators in the first category – those with a more or less exclusive interest in children – have been labeled fixated. Fixation means "a temporary or permanent arrestment of psychological maturation resulting from unresolved formative issues which persist and underlie the organization of subsequent phases of development" (Groth & Birnbaum, 1978, p. 176). Many clinicians view fixated offenders as being "stuck" at an early stage of psychological development.
By contrast, other molesters are described as regressed. Regression is "a temporary or permanent appearance of primitive behavior after more mature forms of expression had been attained, regardless of whether the immature behavior was actually manifested earlier in the individual's development" (Groth & Birnbaum, 1978, p. 177). Regressed offenders have developed an adult sexual orientation but under certain conditions (such as extreme stress) they return to an earlier, less mature psychological state and engage in sexual contact with children.
Some typologies of child molesters divide the fixation-regression distinction into multiple categories, and some include additional categories as well (e.g., Knight, 1989).
For the present discussion, the important point is that many child molesters cannot be meaningfully described as homosexuals, heterosexuals, or bisexuals (in the usual sense of those terms) because they are not really capable of a relationship with an adult man or woman. Instead of gender, their sexual attractions are based primarily on age. These individuals – who are often characterized as fixated – are attracted to children, not to men or women.
Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males..." (p.180).
Other
Approaches Other researchers have taken different approaches, but have similarly failed to find a connection between homosexuality and child molestation. Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse clinic of a Denver children's hospital during a one-year period (from July 1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in fewer than 1% of cases in which an adult molester could be identified – only 2 of the 269 cases (Jenny et al., 1994).
I recommend you click on the link and read it all, it very clearly explains what child molestation is and how it is not related to ones sexual orientation.
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
problem related to terminology arises because sexual abuse of male children by adult men2 is often referred to as "homosexual molestation." The adjective "homosexual" (or "heterosexual" when a man abuses a female child) refers to the victim's gender in relation to that of the perpetrator. Unfortunately, people sometimes mistakenly interpret it as referring to the perpetrator's sexual orientation.
To avoid this confusion, it is preferable to refer to men's sexual abuse of boys with the more accurate label of male-male molestation. Similarly, it is preferable to refer to men's abuse of girls as male-female molestation. These labels are more accurate because they describe the sex of the individuals involved but don't implicitly convey unwarranted assumptions about the perpetrator's sexual orientation.
Typologies of
Offenders The distinction between a victim's gender and a perpetrator's sexual orientation is important because many child molesters don't really have an adult sexual orientation. They have never developed the capacity for mature sexual relationships with other adults, either men or women. Instead, their sexual attractions focus on children – boys, girls, or children of both sexes.
Over the years, this fact has been incorporated into various systems for categorizing child molesters. For example, Finkelhor and Araji (1986) proposed that perpetrators' sexual attractions should be conceptualized as ranging along a continuum – from exclusive interest in children at one extreme, to exclusive interest in adult partners at the other end.
Typologies of offenders have often included a distinction between those with an enduring primary preference for children as sexual partners and those who have established age-appropriate relationships but become sexually involved with children under unusual circumstances of extreme stress. Perpetrators in the first category – those with a more or less exclusive interest in children – have been labeled fixated. Fixation means "a temporary or permanent arrestment of psychological maturation resulting from unresolved formative issues which persist and underlie the organization of subsequent phases of development" (Groth & Birnbaum, 1978, p. 176). Many clinicians view fixated offenders as being "stuck" at an early stage of psychological development.
By contrast, other molesters are described as regressed. Regression is "a temporary or permanent appearance of primitive behavior after more mature forms of expression had been attained, regardless of whether the immature behavior was actually manifested earlier in the individual's development" (Groth & Birnbaum, 1978, p. 177). Regressed offenders have developed an adult sexual orientation but under certain conditions (such as extreme stress) they return to an earlier, less mature psychological state and engage in sexual contact with children.
Some typologies of child molesters divide the fixation-regression distinction into multiple categories, and some include additional categories as well (e.g., Knight, 1989).
For the present discussion, the important point is that many child molesters cannot be meaningfully described as homosexuals, heterosexuals, or bisexuals (in the usual sense of those terms) because they are not really capable of a relationship with an adult man or woman. Instead of gender, their sexual attractions are based primarily on age. These individuals – who are often characterized as fixated – are attracted to children, not to men or women.
Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males..." (p.180).
Other
Approaches Other researchers have taken different approaches, but have similarly failed to find a connection between homosexuality and child molestation. Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse clinic of a Denver children's hospital during a one-year period (from July 1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in fewer than 1% of cases in which an adult molester could be identified – only 2 of the 269 cases (Jenny et al., 1994).
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