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Menieres Possibility?
I am 38 years of age and for about 5 years have had a "dizziness" problem. The condition seemed to improve after about 2 and a half years for about 2 years but then returned recently.
I have seen GP's, ENT's, Neurologists, Vestibular therapists, physiotherapists, neurophysiotherapists and have had MRI's, Cat Scans, Blood Tests, Ear type tests (hearing etc) which were all normal.
I have been told that I may have ear infections, that I may have Meniere's and that my problem could be relating to the muscles/nerves in my neck/spine. Nobody however can seem to agree. One ENT said I do have Menieres, the other dismissed it saying it was my neck. The neurologist also believed it was not Meniere's but my neck as well.
I do not experience true vertigo (spinning), just a sick off balance feeling within my head as though I'm going to pass out or fall over when I'm walking. It affects me whether I am sitting down, lying down or walking. I cannot walk in busy places or look back and forth at things as it sets off this sick feeling.
I dont have any hearing loss, no real tinnitus and I have this feeling constantly at varying intensities as opposed to "attacks" that come and go. While I do experience some of the things that Menieres sufferers experience I don't experience the classic symptoms.
Is anyone able to help?
I have seen GP's, ENT's, Neurologists, Vestibular therapists, physiotherapists, neurophysiotherapists and have had MRI's, Cat Scans, Blood Tests, Ear type tests (hearing etc) which were all normal.
I have been told that I may have ear infections, that I may have Meniere's and that my problem could be relating to the muscles/nerves in my neck/spine. Nobody however can seem to agree. One ENT said I do have Menieres, the other dismissed it saying it was my neck. The neurologist also believed it was not Meniere's but my neck as well.
I do not experience true vertigo (spinning), just a sick off balance feeling within my head as though I'm going to pass out or fall over when I'm walking. It affects me whether I am sitting down, lying down or walking. I cannot walk in busy places or look back and forth at things as it sets off this sick feeling.
I dont have any hearing loss, no real tinnitus and I have this feeling constantly at varying intensities as opposed to "attacks" that come and go. While I do experience some of the things that Menieres sufferers experience I don't experience the classic symptoms.
Is anyone able to help?
Hello Enoch,
Since first posting on here over a month ago I have been looking into this Vertical Heterophoria Syndrome thing which was suggested by one of the people posting on here.
I have contacted a Dr Debby Feinberg via email and she has been very helpful with her answers. She has got me to fill in a questionaire and send her pictures of myself and based on that she believes that I may have symptoms which point to this VH thing.
What are your thoughts on this condition? Have you heard of it? It's a lot of money for me to pack my bags and travel from Australia to the USA for an analysis although if I was convinced enough I could very well do it.
Since first posting on here over a month ago I have been looking into this Vertical Heterophoria Syndrome thing which was suggested by one of the people posting on here.
I have contacted a Dr Debby Feinberg via email and she has been very helpful with her answers. She has got me to fill in a questionaire and send her pictures of myself and based on that she believes that I may have symptoms which point to this VH thing.
What are your thoughts on this condition? Have you heard of it? It's a lot of money for me to pack my bags and travel from Australia to the USA for an analysis although if I was convinced enough I could very well do it.
Howdy you I know what its like to not have any answers. I made a long post, I will put it hear for you to read. Any balance problems I would recommend Dr Black from Portland OR.
When I read the problems here it reminds me of my problem. I know exactly what is causing my problem though but took me years to find out, it could be a possibility for yours. Let me tell you my story and symptoms and a few ideas (I am not a doctor though) I had a cold I went on an airplane, my noise and ears got all stuffy and pressurized, same as when going over mountains. That evening I blew my noise in shower and heard a pop in left ear. I woke up next mourning and I felt lightheaded and off balance (no I did not have spinning sensation) I felt like there was a wet fluid sensation in my left ear, my ear would make popping sounds when I played with my Eustachian tube. (Doctors would always look in my ear and say no don’t see any fluid?) Over time the fluid from inner ear would come down Eustachian tube and I would have this fullness sensation in my ear off and on. I would constantly make these throat scratching sucking moves with my throat and mouth to try and suck or get this fluid out but it’s constantly up there and I always do this. The wet fluid sensation I feel in my ear, also irrates and burns somewhat and it seems to be aggravating my throat, and also my upper lung area which also seems to effect my breathing. Sensitive to loud noises, eyes sensitive to light also with vague headaches. My problem also causes memory problems and trouble concentrating, and anxiety. My problem also makes general sinus problems worse cold, allergies etc. Anyhow these are the majority of my symptoms. I went 3 or 4 years like this constant but fluctuating day to day somewhat. All doctors I went to where of no help. I finally find only one that is like night and day with inner ear problems. Anyhow after numerous tests, which did not really point to anything specific, we decided to do exploratory surgery on my left inner ear, and sure enough the doctor found a fractured stapes footplate with inner ear fluid pouring out into the middle ear. So I finally found out what my problem was, he patched it up and all the above symptoms went away. You don’t have to have a traumatic event to have a perilymph fistula you can still have a tear in the round or oval window, and you don’t have to have a fractured stapes footplate to have a leak either. Lucky I don’t have ear infections, because your chance for meningitis and encephalitis increases allot when you have a perilymph fistula. I read that someone above has my symptoms and recently had meningitis as well, that is not good, heck you may have a perilymph fistula. If a person has a off balance sensation, wet fluid sensation in ear, fluid popping sensation in ear and upper Eustachian tube area, along with any other symptoms I have mentioned I would certainly suspect a inner ear leak. The best Doctor I have found so far is DR Black from Portland OR by far. Unfortunately my ear is leaking again, my surgery was successful for 10 years +or-. So I will be having surgery again. Oh another thing you do not have to have hardly any hearing loss to have a perilymph fistula, most Doctors think this goes hand in hand no hearing loss no fistula, they are dead wrong I had a hell of a leak and not much hearing loss if any. (Tell them I said so) Let me know if you have any questions, I know how bad it sucked not knowing what was wrong with me those 3 to 4 years. Good luck!
To:
When I read the problems here it reminds me of my problem. I know exactly what is causing my problem though but took me years to find out, it could be a possibility for yours. Let me tell you my story and symptoms and a few ideas (I am not a doctor though) I had a cold I went on an airplane, my noise and ears got all stuffy and pressurized, same as when going over mountains. That evening I blew my noise in shower and heard a pop in left ear. I woke up next mourning and I felt lightheaded and off balance (no I did not have spinning sensation) I felt like there was a wet fluid sensation in my left ear, my ear would make popping sounds when I played with my Eustachian tube. (Doctors would always look in my ear and say no don’t see any fluid?) Over time the fluid from inner ear would come down Eustachian tube and I would have this fullness sensation in my ear off and on. I would constantly make these throat scratching sucking moves with my throat and mouth to try and suck or get this fluid out but it’s constantly up there and I always do this. The wet fluid sensation I feel in my ear, also irrates and burns somewhat and it seems to be aggravating my throat, and also my upper lung area which also seems to effect my breathing. Sensitive to loud noises, eyes sensitive to light also with vague headaches. My problem also causes memory problems and trouble concentrating, and anxiety. My problem also makes general sinus problems worse cold, allergies etc. Anyhow these are the majority of my symptoms. I went 3 or 4 years like this constant but fluctuating day to day somewhat. All doctors I went to where of no help. I finally find only one that is like night and day with inner ear problems. Anyhow after numerous tests, which did not really point to anything specific, we decided to do exploratory surgery on my left inner ear, and sure enough the doctor found a fractured stapes footplate with inner ear fluid pouring out into the middle ear. So I finally found out what my problem was, he patched it up and all the above symptoms went away. You don’t have to have a traumatic event to have a perilymph fistula you can still have a tear in the round or oval window, and you don’t have to have a fractured stapes footplate to have a leak either. Lucky I don’t have ear infections, because your chance for meningitis and encephalitis increases allot when you have a perilymph fistula. I read that someone above has my symptoms and recently had meningitis as well, that is not good, heck you may have a perilymph fistula. If a person has a off balance sensation, wet fluid sensation in ear, fluid popping sensation in ear and upper Eustachian tube area, along with any other symptoms I have mentioned I would certainly suspect a inner ear leak. The best Doctor I have found so far is DR Black from Portland OR by far. Unfortunately my ear is leaking again, my surgery was successful for 10 years +or-. So I will be having surgery again. Oh another thing you do not have to have hardly any hearing loss to have a perilymph fistula, most Doctors think this goes hand in hand no hearing loss no fistula, they are dead wrong I had a hell of a leak and not much hearing loss if any. (Tell them I said so) Let me know if you have any questions, I know how bad it sucked not knowing what was wrong with me those 3 to 4 years. Good luck!
To:
Just a note in case others are reading this forum; Although you may have been tested for vertical heterophoria, it is important to know the true test is for vertical heterophoria "syndrome". As I had mentioned on a personal note, not just any optometrist can evaluate it, nor do they understand its implications. My optometrist told me I was perfectly fine. I asked him for his help and his arrogant attitude stopped him from consulting with a true specialist, as I had requested. The end result; I went to the specialist and she helped and changd my life. People who have had the symptoms, understand what it is and what to look for. The query at the beginning of this forum, describes "vertical heterophoria syndrome" oh to well. I hope, at some point, you find your way, as I did. There are so many people going through the same pains, needlessly. They get misdiagnosed and lead a life of delirium, on medications, covering up the after effects of the cause.
Regards,
lognum
Regards,
lognum
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
no neck misalignment can cause those symptoms.
there certainly are answers. get a second opinion from a major university center. or go ask your regular doc about vaso-vagal problems.
there certainly are answers. get a second opinion from a major university center. or go ask your regular doc about vaso-vagal problems.
If presented with this evidence of having my neck out of alignment which a GP told me a year or 2 ago what would you suggest? He said that if not fixed it can lead to all sorts of nasties like tinnitus, more severe dizziness, loss of peripheral vision etc? It's just that no other specialists have ever given me any suggestions - they simply tell me I might have this or I might have that - but never offer any suggestions such as change of lifestyle, diets, treatments?
I'm defintely aware of the dangers of Chiro's but dont feel any other medical experts have any answers. Who knows, perhaps there aren't any.
I'm defintely aware of the dangers of Chiro's but dont feel any other medical experts have any answers. Who knows, perhaps there aren't any.
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
cardiologists do tilt-table testing, medication can help
i'd never let a chiropractor adjust my neck, look at the medical case reports of complications following adjustments: very serious lifelong debility.
i'd never let a chiropractor adjust my neck, look at the medical case reports of complications following adjustments: very serious lifelong debility.
Must admit I'm pretty skeptical about Chiropractors but against my better judgement I went to see one yesterday. While I'm not convinced that he can do anything they did take some Xrays of my spine/neck. Apparently my lower spine is perfect, however my neck is absolutely atrocious. Upon seeing the images of my neck they asked me whether I've ever been in a major car accident or had some serious head/neck injury. It is totally misaligned (even I could tell that) It sort of gives support to some other specialists who thought my problems could be neck related. He said it was pretty serious but believes he can rectify it.
I just don't know whether to believe him or whether he's after my business!
I just don't know whether to believe him or whether he's after my business!
"Vertebral hearing loss"???? Hmm!! That's a new one on me, too.
"Physicians" is a broad term and I believe even Medicare counts chiropractors as physicians (don't quote me on that, though). The public needs to be clearly educated, however, that not all physicians are educated equal.
You do hear success stories about back pain with chiropractors, but I can't believe they could extend that to hearing loss!
Will they soon be able to cure bad breath, toenail fungus, and menopause? :)
I was astounded when an acupuncturist assured my grandmother that his treatments would make her walk again. She was 96, had stroke damage, and hadn't walked in 15 years. A week after he started giving her some giant herbal pills, she had a further huge stroke and spent two more years helpless in a nursing home. I always wondered.
Nancy T.
"Physicians" is a broad term and I believe even Medicare counts chiropractors as physicians (don't quote me on that, though). The public needs to be clearly educated, however, that not all physicians are educated equal.
You do hear success stories about back pain with chiropractors, but I can't believe they could extend that to hearing loss!
Will they soon be able to cure bad breath, toenail fungus, and menopause? :)
I was astounded when an acupuncturist assured my grandmother that his treatments would make her walk again. She was 96, had stroke damage, and hadn't walked in 15 years. A week after he started giving her some giant herbal pills, she had a further huge stroke and spent two more years helpless in a nursing home. I always wondered.
Nancy T.
Enoch,
What sort of a medical professional tests for vagus nerve dysfunction? Is it a neurologist?
How is it tested?
What sort of a medical professional tests for vagus nerve dysfunction? Is it a neurologist?
How is it tested?
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
if all of your testing was negative for vertigo, consider getting tested for vagus nerve dysfunction leading to vasovagal syncope. A tilt table test helps diagnose this.
i wonder if it's lightheadedness that's the problem from postural hypotension
what medication are you on, that can lead to problems with postural hypotension
what's your blood pressure when lying, then while standing?
i wonder if it's lightheadedness that's the problem from postural hypotension
what medication are you on, that can lead to problems with postural hypotension
what's your blood pressure when lying, then while standing?
Nancy it scares me every time I delve into Chiro's. They call themselves, Physicians....
Physicains of Chiro. to be exact.
They coined a new term in the realm of hearing, "Vertebral Hearing Loss." A new term for me....
Physicains of Chiro. to be exact.
They coined a new term in the realm of hearing, "Vertebral Hearing Loss." A new term for me....
I would be scared to death to see a chiropractor for the reason OtoHNS_MD said--possibility of stroke. Not worth it!!
That said, I corresponded a long time with a dizzy person on a dizziness mailing list, and when she went to a chiropractor, he did some adjustment or other and her dizziness, which she'd had for years, vanished instantly and completely. (It wasn't BPPV.) She was astounded (as was I, because I knew her well enough to be 99.99 percent sure she wasn't making it up). But it came back gradually after a week or two. Her neurologist and neurotologist couldn't explain it, but it was real.
Still, I would definitely not see a chiropractor for dizziness. (Or anything else, at least not having them mess with my neck, but that's just my personal opinion and FEAR.)
Nancy T.
That said, I corresponded a long time with a dizzy person on a dizziness mailing list, and when she went to a chiropractor, he did some adjustment or other and her dizziness, which she'd had for years, vanished instantly and completely. (It wasn't BPPV.) She was astounded (as was I, because I knew her well enough to be 99.99 percent sure she wasn't making it up). But it came back gradually after a week or two. Her neurologist and neurotologist couldn't explain it, but it was real.
Still, I would definitely not see a chiropractor for dizziness. (Or anything else, at least not having them mess with my neck, but that's just my personal opinion and FEAR.)
Nancy T.
A lot of people see chiropractors and have wonderful results. But there can be dangerous consequences also.
I personally have seen 2 cases of strokes following neck manipulation during medical school and one as a resident.
For more details...
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chirostroke.html
As for your dizziness, you sound like you've been through a lot. Dizziness is a difficult diagnosis because so many things can cause and contribute to it. If you can, I would try to see another neuro otologist ideally in a university setting. Good luck.
I personally have seen 2 cases of strokes following neck manipulation during medical school and one as a resident.
For more details...
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chirostroke.html
As for your dizziness, you sound like you've been through a lot. Dizziness is a difficult diagnosis because so many things can cause and contribute to it. If you can, I would try to see another neuro otologist ideally in a university setting. Good luck.
My recomendation is that you seek out a PT that specializes in ballance.
I have seen too many chiros that claim they cure sensory neural hearing loss.... which I really do not put a lot of faith in that.
I have seen too many chiros that claim they cure sensory neural hearing loss.... which I really do not put a lot of faith in that.
Thanks to all your comments.
I also have my doubts about being Meniere's disease but guess I'm investigating almost anything. On the weekend I went and had a test for vertical heterophoria but that came back fine. I'm thinking of going to a chiropractor....
I also have my doubts about being Meniere's disease but guess I'm investigating almost anything. On the weekend I went and had a test for vertical heterophoria but that came back fine. I'm thinking of going to a chiropractor....
It could be a lot of things. I believe the estimated number is 80% of all balance issues are due to BPPV.... and in many cases it is resolved on its own. According to Kenda Fuller, PT, 40% of all BPPV patients, have a re-occurrance latter in life.
Where she got that stat, I do not know.
Where she got that stat, I do not know.
oh another possibility is vertical heterophoria disorder. its an eye problem where your eyes dont focus on the same spot and it makes you feel dizzy, and gives you headaches etc. look into that too. next time i have an eye exam im gonna demand a test for it or a referral. apparantly there are only a few eye doctors that test for it.
i have similar symptoms, pretty much identical. youre not alone, i know that doesnt help your situation but i feel just as hopeless about mine. i dont think mine is migraine related, i dont get severe headaches or any other classic symptom of a migraine. i dont know what it is. its really messed me up though, my blood pressure is up because im anxious about it all the time. the only difference i have from your symptoms is that an inflated-head feeling goes along with the dizziness occasionally, it feels like my sinuses are expanding and it reaches to the top of my head. its spooky and ive become a hypochondriac. its going on 12 months that ive had the problem. sinus problems? ear problems? neck problems? allergies?? i dont know. no one seems to know but i keep hearing about it posssibly being allergies. people have even told me it might be psychological. its frustrating and depressing. good luck finding an answer
Sounds like you have seen all possible specialists. (Was your ENT a neuro-otologist, that is, an EAR specialist as opposed to a general ENT?) Unfortunately, there are some people with dizziness who just never get a diagnosis (which is not the doctors' fault), and the only thing you can do is see what works best to control your symptoms (drugs, lifestyle changes, etc.). If it went away once for you, it probably will again. Keep up hope.
One thing that many doctors don't consider but that is actually more common than believed is migraine-associated vertigo (sometimes called migraine-associated dizziness). Look it up and see if you think that's a possibility in your case, if it hasn't already been considered. If you and/or family members are migraineurs, that makes the possibility much higher.
Look up "cervical vertigo" too, if you think the problem is related to your neck. A GREAT site for dizziness information of all kinds, written by a well-known specialist, is www.dizziness-and-balance.com (click on "educational information for patients").
Best of luck,
Nancy T.
One thing that many doctors don't consider but that is actually more common than believed is migraine-associated vertigo (sometimes called migraine-associated dizziness). Look it up and see if you think that's a possibility in your case, if it hasn't already been considered. If you and/or family members are migraineurs, that makes the possibility much higher.
Look up "cervical vertigo" too, if you think the problem is related to your neck. A GREAT site for dizziness information of all kinds, written by a well-known specialist, is www.dizziness-and-balance.com (click on "educational information for patients").
Best of luck,
Nancy T.
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