Blastocyst (5 day) Transfer V's 2 or 3 Day Transfer....!?
A few of you know me by now but for those who don't I'm SarahKate (26), Hubby (33) and I have been TTC for two and a half years, suffered 2 ectopic pregnancies (and 2 early mc's in between) resulting in the loss of both my tubes, so now need IVF to conceive. We had our first attempt in June which sadly failed, period arrived 10 days after a 3 day transfer. Treatment initially went very well, we retrieved 13 eggs, 11 of which fertilised, we ended up with 9 grade 1, 8 cell embies. We now have 8 embryo's frozen. We are due to have a natural frozen embryo transfer around the first two weeks in August.
I am very confused at the moment, as I have heard so many conflicting theories about blasto (5 day) transfers. I have heard many success stories and many un-successful stories! I have a 3 days transfer which failed sadly and many people have asked me why I did not have a blasto (5 day) transfer! I know some clinics only do blasto transfers and some don't do them atall! I know this is usually a doctors's personal preference. My own clinic told me that they do do blasto transfers, but every case is not suitable because they say if an embryo is doing so well and is very healthy at day 2 or 3 there is no real benefit in leaving them to go to blasto stage, if the embryo's are doing well at day 2 or 3 (like ours were) - the best place for them is back inside you! They also said the risk of leaving them to go to blasto stage is that once back inside you they won't grow anymore because they have been left outside your body too long. I also have heard from some people that some clinics prefer blasto transfers, because the theory is in a natural conception, it would take the embryo 5 days to travel down the tubes and make it to the womb, so transfering at blasto stage means the embie is in the womb when it would be naturally.
I am really confused about all of this, after asking my clinic they have only re-confirmed what they told me before. I just wonder as I am thinking as a 3 day transfer didn't work, would a blasto transfer be the next logical step!? Also, as our embies were frozen at 3 days, does that mean once thawed out they have to be transfered immediately (so another 3 day transfer) or after thawed could they be left to develop to blasto stage??
Sorry for the long rambling post lol I just wanted to know all you experienced ladies opinions about blasto transfers verses 2 or 3 day transfers???? Any replies and all opinions and advice are very much appreciated, thank you all in advance!!
*********BABY DUST********* and Luck to all xxxxxxxxxxxx
hi i just had my transfer done and they did it a 3-4 day stage. i am a bit confused as to how they count the days because up until now they count the day they take them out. if so they took my eggs on friday n put them back on monday. they asked for a 12 day blood test which is on friday. so counting the days for the test they include the transfer day. does that mean that they did the transfer on day 4?? all of this is confusing for us we just have to try n get all the opinions we can so we can bombard the doc with questions and hope to get answers. i dont think they can let the embeos go to blasto once they have been frozen but some clinics may do it. our bodies work in different ways and they doctors are just going by text book rule then bringing in our individual case to help them some more. sorry to hear about your past it must be very difficult to get so far and then lose it all. i am sorry for going on but if you want to talk further them mail me again.
What you had was a 3 day transfer hun, your embie(s) were 3 full days old when put back in, as they count from when the embryo's fertilise until they are put back in. When your eggs are retrieved, and put together with the sperm, they are left alone for a few hours to fertilise before they are checked. Then when you have embryo transfer this is usually always in the morning, so that day does not count as a full day, if that makes sense? Clinics only do 2, 3 or 5 day transfers - not 4 - as this is too close to blasto stage but not quite and is too far from 2-3 days. I had egg retrieval around 8am on a Monday morning and embryo transfer early the following Thursday morning, so thats Mon, Tue, and Wed full days, so 3 day transfer (embies 3 full days old). Yours was retrieval Friday, Sat and Sun (3 full days-embies 3 full days old) and ET on the Mon. Some clinics do a blood test rather than a urine test because the pregnancy hormone can be deteced much earlier with a blood test, so this is why you can have a test on day 12. I really hope all that makes sense hun and I haven't just confused you more!? I wish you all the luck inthe world for your 2ww and hope you get a BFP ******baby glue****** When is your official test day hun and was this your first attempt at IVF? Please let me know how you get on!?
Hi. I just had a 5-day transfer last Tuesday & I believe it is just the preference of the particular clinic because mine said if 6 or more eggs fertilize well, they'll do a 5-day. If less than 6 fertilize well, they'll do a 3-day. We had 21 eggs retrieved and 19 were mature enough for ICSI. I, too, was told if you have fewer fertilize, the risk of waiting the five days is that they won't continue to grow & then you've lost them all. Since I had 19 & they fertilized well, allowing them to grow to blast stage was better for my situation. There are many women on here who have had a successful pregnancy after doing a 3-day or a 5-day, so I'm not sure what the odds are either way. I also wonder about FET and whether they allow them to grow further or just hope they thaw well & then transfer them? I haven't looked into that too much, but if it doesn't work for us this time around, we'll be moving on to an FET, too. Good luck to you!!! =)
We transferred on day 3 and got a bfp but we only had 3 embryos at that stage left so there was no point to wait. Typically with that many embryos as you had most labs wait till day 5 to find the highest quality blasts.
With frozen transfer many labs wait till day 5 or even 6 to make sure that embryos thawed well.
Here's a wonderful article about the debate between day 3 vs. day 5 transfer which I read a while back while in my tww. I too transferred on day 5 resulting in a pregnancy but I used donor eggs and we had plenty of embies by day 5 as well so we didn't have to transfer on day 3.
Anyway, here's the link:
I'm sure there are more - just google day 3 vs. day 5 transfer but in all of my personal research, I found this to be the best article as far as explaining all of this to a lay person - best of luck! - jen
Thank you so much for all your replies, I really apreciate it so much, all you ladies are brilliant and this site is brilliant too :o) I'm still finding that there are very mixed opinions everywhere, with success on both sides and sadly failure on both sides. I am definitely going to talk to my clinic again about this, and see what they say.
Jen thanks for that link, I am going to have a read of that now :o) And Helen very interesting to read that some clinics do leave frozen embies to develop further. I will let you all know what I come up with after talking to the clinic and find out if they plan to leave our frosties to develop further before transfer! I will keep you posted!!
All the very best of luck to you all ladies, I have everything crossed for you all, *******BABY DUST & BABY GLUE*******
I am new to this site and going through the same issues as you all are. I had a 5 day blast on Fri 10th July, I am due to take a pregnancy test this Friday 24th July and I am petrified as I have no symptoms.
I had sore boobs and cramps after the transfer and they lasted about 4-5 days but seem to have settled now and apart from the occasional cramp and clear discharge there is nothing.
A total of 12 eggs were collected and 8 fertilising, 4 of which reached Blast. They were able to transfer a single embryo and hoped to freeze the others, however the following day they called me to advise that although the other 3 eggs had reached blastocyst stage they were in the early stages of blastocyst and therefore they could not be frozen!!!
This caused me great distress however my doctor assured me to stay positive as there was a good chance that the embryo transferred would be successful as it was strong. The thought running through my head is what if the embro transferred also started to slow down as per the rest of them.
I am now sat in this long long long anxious wait looking for any kind of sign that this has worked and doing all I can to help the process.
I know it sounds strange but I want the 24th to come quickly but at the same time I dont as that way I will be none the wiser and can carry on in the belief that the embryo is still inside me safely - stupid I know!!!
I really hope it goes well for you and all the other ladies who are also on this journey as it can feel lonely.
Lots of lucky baby dust to every lady out there x x x
Hi hopingwishing I know that this is the most stressful time of all on the 2ww hun, and you are just absolutely desperate to know what's going on but also want the blissful ignorance, I was exactly the same! Try not to worry about having no symptoms, I promise you this doesn't mean anything atall, many many women do not have any symptoms atall in these very early stages and it in no way means you are not pregnant!!! Try to stay positive and open minded and don't obsess hun, I know how hard that is though, just rest as much as possible and try not to stress yourself out. I understand all your worries about blasto transfers etc - I am at the moment completely confused by it all lol and have no idea what to think!!! I guess we just have to hope that our clinics know what they are doing in each individual case. I really wish you all the best hun and really hope that you get that wonderful BFP on the 23rd - it's not far away now hun, hang in there and please let us know how you get on!! ***********baby glue********* and lots of luck xxxxxxxxxxx
40smama / Jen - I read that article hun and to honest it did freak me out a bit and upset me, this doctor is basically saying that 2-3 day transfers do not work/become successful pregnancies, and that every clinic should only do blasto transfers! This is completely untrue and upsetting, I know atleast 12 woman alone at the moment who are now pregnant successfully after having 2 and 3 day transfers, some with twins, so I do not know how on earth this doctor can possibly sit there and say that only blasto transfers work!? And to say that clinics only do day 2 or 3 transfers "to save themselves money" is ridiculous! I really think every case is individual, and that clinics do do what is best for the patient. I am going to talk to my clinic again and air my concerns and see what they say, perhaps they will want to try a blasto transfer (if this is possible with FET) and see how that goes. I think it's the chance you take and a lot of it is luck and I think I have probably been obsessing too much about it all lol, I am going to try and chill out about everything and relax in prep for my FET very soon. God it's such a confusing roller-coaster isn't it!? My head is spinning with it all. Hope you are okay hun, much love and ***********baby dust****** to you xxxxxxxxxxx
DH and I are in the same dilemna as you. We had a failed IVF cycle in last week of June and now I am on Lupron weaiting for AF. I think my clinic steers people more for 3 day vs 5 day. My RE said that in a random testing the reults were the same for both 3 day and 5 day so the chances of success is the same, so when we said we would prefer to do a 5 day blast he said they will put back only 2 blastocyst hwoever when I did a 3 day transfer 3 embies were transferred. So my RE was contradictong himself, be cause obviously chances of pregnancy is higher with a 5 day otehrwise he would have allowed me to transfer 3 balstocycst like he would have done with a 3 day transfer. DH and I are very analytical and this did not make mathematical sense to us. Anywhoo, we are going with our gut, since we had a failed 3 day, we would like to go with a 5 day this time.
My suggestion would be trust in your instimct and go with what you feel is right. Good luck and lots of baby dust
Thanks hun it means alot and I hope it is good news on friday I will keep you posted. I am hoping all goes well with you also and we all hav good news that we are waiting for.
I know that if this cycle is unsuccessful then I would have another go at it and will hope to have enought eggs for another 5 day blast as from reading on net and speaking to doctor you are more likely to have a succesfull pregnancy.
I also understand that in order to have a 5 day blast clinics prefer you to have atleast 8 eggs or more as then there is a greater chance that atleast one will reach blast stage and if there are less than 8 they will do a 3 day transfer.
I also have 2 friends who both had 3 days transfers and they both fell pregnant with twins and went on to give birth to healthy babies.
Its a tricky debate and think alot depends on the person as we are all different and the type if treatment has to be tailored to our personal circumstances.
mamom15 I am so so sorry your cycle failed I really hope and wish you the best for your next cycle I am sure one day we will all get there we all have to be strong.
mamom15 - So sorry to hear your cycle also failed hun ((((((((((hugs))))))))))) It is so confusing I know but I think you are right - I am along the same thinking lines, if a 3 days fails then surely the next logical step would be to try a blasto transfer? You are right to say go with your gut, and I am going to talk to my clinic again and see what they say about it all. I really hope your next try is successful hun sending you all possible ******baby dust****** and lots of luck, let us know how you get on xxxxxx
hopingwishing - Bless your heart, again it is so confusing isn't it!? I fear I am obsessing so much over it, it's stressing me out lol!! I have also heard for blasto they like you to have atleast 8 eggs, I ended up with 13 eggs, 11 of which ferilised and 9 ended up grade 1, 8 cell embies - 1 transferred and 8 were frozen. Blasto was never an option for us from what the clinic told us, they went through it all with is, it wasn't suitable in my cirumstances, as the embies were doing so well by day 2-3 they said the best place for them is back inside me and not in a lab....so I have to just try and trust my clinic is doing what's best for me, and just have hope that next time it will work for us! God I hope so! I am still going to talk to them though lol! Anyway hun I am truly hoping so much you get your bfp on the 23rd, I will be keeping everything crossed, please let me know how you get on!!! *********baby glue********
Love luck and *****baby dust****** to all! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
OK, i have decided to quite looking at the internet. It's in God's hands anyway right? I got pregnant on my first 3 day transfer.... so it must be possible. There is just soooo much conflicting information on the dang internet!!!!
The pregnancy success rates between embryo and blastocyst transfers are almost the same. If your embryos make it to the blastocyst stage the pregnancy success rate is higher per blastocyst transferred, but not all embryos make it to that stage and sometimes none do. For example, if you have three embryos on day 2, and only one of them develops to a day 5 blastocyst, your chance of pregnancy from that one blastocyst would be around 30%. If you had transferred all three embryos on day 2 or 3, your chance of pregnancy from those 3 embryos would also be around 30% (I have used 30% as an average number for my example, but rates vary depending on the clinic and the diagnosis of the couple). Blastocyst transfer is usually only attempted when the embryo quality is good and if there are a sufficient number of embryos to work with. The main advantage of using a blastocyst transfer is that fewer embryos can be transferred without reducing the success rate, allowing for a smaller risk of multiples.
Hello everyone -- just thought I would throw my 2 cents in (I'm an embryologist) about how we decide when to do a transfer.
Day 0 is day of retrieval, as fertilization takes between 15-20 hours post ICSI/insemination. So day 1 is the day we do fertilization checks, so all transfer days come from that formula.
If we have a patient with a low # of embryos, and therefore we won't have much to choose from, we will plan a day 3 transfer. If the patient is older, and we think there's a low chance of any blastocyst development, we will sometimes plan a day 5 transfer because you can tell a lot from a diagnostic standpoint if the patient will ever have embryos grow that far along. If the patient has a lot of embryos, we almost always culture to blast. We don't want to be in a situation where we have a high number of embryos on day 3 that all look the same, because the reality is, in vitro or in vivo, only about 50% of embryos will make it to the blastocyst stage, so it gives us more selection power. We are also a clinic who routinely does blastocyst freezing, so there is an advantage of making the best choice with the most amount of infortmation.
From a logistical standpoint, we transfer our frozen embryos on Day 6. Since it is stage appropriate for blastocysts to form on day 5 or day 6, it is easier to do all of our blastocyst transfers on day 6. That way, the clinical staff can plan the transfer, and we thaw the embryos on whatever day is appropriate so that all the embryos are the same "age" on the transfer day. It takes the figured out away from the clinical staff and allows it to be in the laboratories hands. If you have any other questions, feel free to send me a note :c) And good luck all!
well i have just had my eggs taking out and this is my 3rd go of ivf, i have a lways had my transfer 2days not 3 and not 5, but i am either having mine tomorrow or thursday, and the reason they do a 5 day transfer is if your embryos are of good quality, if they are not that good of a quality and they wont last outside until day 5 then they put them back in then, if theyare of good quality they put them back in on day 5 and you have a better success rate with day 5, that is why they only like to put 1 embryo back in, as there is a higher risk of twins and with day 3 they put 2 back in to give you a better chance. so i have got my fingers crossed that i get day 5.. i have 2 blocked fallopian tubes, i have had 2 failed ivfs then last year i fell pregannt naturally but sadly had a miscarriage at 12 weeks :(
Hello my nme is Dawne and 13 embryos where retrevied from only 3 where good so 3 embryos where transfered inside me on day 3. The first day my stomach burn an i had acid reflux all night it stop the next day. Day4 i dont feel othing untill late that night cramps as if the embryos where dieing. i felt nothing sinc then.i`am 42 yrs old. Do you think that i should do day 5 instead next cycle. Thank you
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