mutual masturbation w possible transfer of blood

[safechicagoguy]

doctors: after reading through other questions, mine is similar, but wanted some personal reassurance. I engaged the other day in mutual masturbation . I am a man , and so was my "friend", whom I don't really know well.  I asked him twice about HIV status before starting our session, and he said he was "negative and tested frequently". We engaged in no oral or anal, just masturbation. He had a few minutes before picked a scab on his arm which was bleeding a few drops of blood. What is my concern is that a few times during our masturbation he touched his arm, then touched his penis.Is it possible that when I then touched his penis with my hand, I could have picked up a few drops of his blood, that had been transferred from his hand, which then when I subsequently touched my penis, the blood was transferred to me?  Basically, could blood have been transferred from his arm, to his hand , to his penis, then to my hand and then my penis effeciently? I did not have any cuts on my penis, but did have some slight chafing, and possibly an early herpes sore which I get every 4 months of so?  I appreciate your response to this question, and am mainly concerned about HIV risk.. I know you have stated definitively that HIV is not transferred during mutual masturbation, this is somewhat of a weird circumstance. If any blood was involved it was no more than one or two small drops. Thank you.

[H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D.]

The risk is probably higher for penile to oral transmission, but still extremely low -- one estimate (by CDC) is once for every 10,000 exposure to infected partners, which is equivalent to performing BJs on infected men once daily for 27 years before transmission might be likely.  Presumably the risk is even lower if there is no ejaculation in the mouth, but there are no data.

Try to stop worrying about such extraordinarly low risk events.  Safe sex isn't so complicated!  Choose your partners with care and use condoms for vaginal or anal sex.  If you do so, you can expect to go a lifetime without catching HIV -- and without needing clarification on this or any other online forum.

That's all for this thread.

[safechicagoguy]

one more question,you state that there are no proved cases of oral to penile transmission of HIV, does this hold true for penile to oral? (that is the oral person getting HIV from performing oral sex on a HIV infected person?)  does ejaculation or no ejaculation have any bearing? thank you dr handsfield

[safechicagoguy]

thank you, end of discussion, you have probably satisfied  not only me, but countless others who share my concerns. Have a great Day!

[H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D.]

Having an active herpes lesion does not materially change the risk when there is no risk to begin with.

It is impossible to prove a negative, and so the fact that there are few or no proved cases of oral to penile HIV transmission doesn't prove it cannot happen.  But for sure it is exceedingly rare.  In different responses to similar questions, Dr. Hook and I might use "no risk" sometimes, or "no risk for practical purposes", or "very low risk", depending on how the question is asked and how much we feel a need to explain.  Nobody should perceive a significant difference between such responses.

[safechicagoguy]

thank you for your well construed comments. Two more questions. having the possible herpes sore doesn't make a difference in this masturbatory contact at all?  And finally, I'm a bit confused, as may be some of the readers. Dr Hook mentions that oral sex is not a risk for HIV, yet you say above that (rarely) mouth, you also say not to have anal or oral sex with your male partners, yet on other comments, you have stated that "oral sex is safe sex". could you please clarify my confusion..  Is the herpes sore on my penis any risk with the potential hand/blood transfer, and is oral sex safe sex man/man?
thanks and appreciate your comments Dr. Handsfield

[H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D.]

Noted; see above.

[H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D.]

Welcome to the forum and thanks for your question.

As you have been told on the community forum, both recently and back in 2007-2008, there has never been a known HIV transmission by hand-genital contact. That blood may have been involved doesn't change that fact.  And anyway, the possibility there was blood seems very low -- but even if they were, the site-to-site-to-site transmission sequence you describe is obviously not feasible.

As for "playing safe", here is all you need to know:  if a bare penis (no condom) does not enter another person's vagina, rectum or (rarely) mouth, there is no risk of sexual transmission of HIV.  Period, full stop, no exceptions known.  So don't have anal or oral sex with your male partners, or use condoms for anal, and you'll never have to worry about HIV -- or to ask questions about it on this or other forums.

Best wishes--  HHH, MD

[safechicagoguy]

one more bit of info, it was somewhat dark, so I'm not even sure any  blood was on my penis, I'm just thinking of "what if". Basically just need some reassurance that i'll be ok when I was attempting to "play safe"