Rubbing/Frottage/Symptoms

[SILVERBOX]

Hello Doctors: The exposure was in a strip club in Atlanta last summer. Multiple lap dances = no risk. Then at one point my penis was exposed. I later saw a small abrasion. My penis was exposed for less than 10 seconds. Very brief contact penis head and/or shaft with outside of naked vagina and vaginal fluid. No penetration. I moved when  felt the sensation of wettness. Unknown how much fluid or the exact spot on my penis contacted. It was brief. When I moved my penis was again covered by clothes and lap dace continued.

The next day I had fear of HIV infection. I ran to the Internet for information.  Similar threads suggested no penetration and no risk, however, I had trouble with the concept. I contacted my doctor who said no test was needed.  I continued to worry and she suggested psychological counselling. The psychologist very good and also said no test as it would fuel more anxiety now and in the future.

At  4 months post exposure I developed  a small recurrent fungal infectionon at base of penis. Round and very itchy. Seems to occurr every time I have sex and then itch for 2 days until it flakes.  

At 8 months post exposure diagnosed with "dry eye" in one eye. Constant feeling of something stuck in eye with drainage and twitching

Internet sites state recurrent fungal infection and dry eye are both relatively early HIV symptoms

My fear has returned and it is severe. Psychologist says no test and family doctor agrees

I really need your help and guidance with a few questions and issues:

1. Am I correct that no penetration = no risk even with possible small abrasion and grinding after penis briefly touched wet vagina

2. The recurrent fungal starting 4 months post exposure does it sound like a symptom

3. The very annoying dry eye in one eye. I need to know if this is a common symptom found in the first year of exposure

4. Based upon exposure and the above symptoms please discuss my risk in detail

Thanks
I

[Kries]

There is absolutely no risk from frottage (Rubbing genital togther).

As for your penis head coming in contact with her vaginal secretions at the opening of the vagina. Those secretions are no more infectious than tears, saliva and sweat. Which are NOT infectious. The only infectious fluids inside the vagina are the cervico-vaginal fluids, which are found all the way at the end of the vaginal (top). This fluid is a think membrane fluid that is coated on the cervix to protect it. You had no risk what-so ever, so you do not need testing.

Your symptoms are not HIV related. See your doctor if your symptoms keep causing you concerns.

[SILVERBOX]

This is not a what if follow up response. Rather, I write to express gratitude for your thorough answer.  I will continue to work in an effort to move past this most difficult period. Your response is important and will be shared as you suggested

[Edward W Hook, MD]

I must admit I am a bit perplexed at your question.  Your doctors have told you no risk and no need for testing.  In fact, even when you look on the internet, one of the most unreliable of sources for information of this sort, you see statements which verify what you have already heard from trained professionals  - no penetration, no risk.  Do you really expect a different answer from me?  I agree with the advice given to you earlier- you are not at risk and do not need testing.

Regarding your initial symptoms, this sort of symptom is notoriously unreliable.  Sometimes after an exposure that, in retrospect, one wishes they had not had, persons tend to examine themselves and be far more attuned to genital sensations than in periods when they are not concerned.  This in turns leads to noticing what turn out to be normal sensations or every day, nuisance kinds of problems like fungal skin infections or dry eyes that might have been not noticed or ignored at other times.  Perhaps this was a contributor to your situation.  Your symptoms are certainly not in any way suggestive if HIV.

I urge you to continue to work with your psychologist to get past this and whatever guilt might be contributing to it.  In fact, I would urge you to mention the exchage to him/her the next time you see them - it may help.  

Please, no follow-up "But what if..." questions.  No risk, really.  No need for testing.  EWH

[gr8guy2010]

A related discussion, HIV risk at a massage centre was started.

[SILVERBOX]

Fair enough Dr Hook and thanks for responding

[joggen]

If you searched this forum for similar threads you would see that the responses are ALWAYS the same for both doctors and unequivocally state no risk whatsoever.

If you can't accept that then continue to work with your psychologist- repeating the same questions here isn't going to help you.

[Edward W Hook, MD]

Yes - we agreee.  

This will be your last reply. Further questions will need to be started as a new thread.  EWH

[SILVERBOX]

Am I correct that both you and Dr Handsfield agree regarding vaginal and/or anal exposure that without penetration there is no risk of HIV infection. Thanks

[Edward W Hook, MD]

No. EWH

[SILVERBOX]

Kindly permit this ONE follow up inquiry please.

Have there been cases of sexual transmission without penetrative sex. Perhaps phrased another way are you aware of any cases where penis to vagina rubbing have resulted in infection. If not, why is this called "theoretical risk" or should it actually be called low risk because it does happens under certain circustances

This will be my last comment as it has been suggested I stop all Internet research. Unfortunately, I find myself aware of additional symptoms like red face/seborrheic dermatitis and this might explain the dry eye. I admit I don't know if this is something that would appear in the first year as a symptom. If I want a chance of leaving this worry behind I think I must stop reading about symptoms on the Internet

Thus I thank you in advance for the time responding to my issues with such factual information. I will read your reply and then STOP all of my research. I suppose if this doesn't work I could ask my doctor to reconsider testing, however, I want to accept that it isn't really necessary and the intellectual part knows this is true. Thanks

Your professionalism is most appreciated

[keane1977]

Hi I am not an expert but I think you should belive the Doctors advice and just forget about it. The more you think of it the more symptoms you will find.