Hormone Therapy?

Hello:

Last fall I got a hormone test. Testosterone was 370 and estrogen was 20. But since then I have lost weight probably 30 pounds. My questions are:

1) Is 370 within range for testosterone therapy? (My doctor told me it was normal but it seams low to me)
2) Could my testosterone levels increased do to weight loss? If so does anybody know how much testosterone can fluxuate from weight loss?

Thanks, any thoughts or knowledge would be appreciated

[lowT]

mate im no expert but i have done some research into testosterone levels and your 370 is at the lower end of normal probably not low enough for therapy, if it worries you see another doctor.
your testosterone levels should increase with weight loss to an extent, the more fat you have the more eostrogen you have, eostrogen interferes with testosterone production. Dont expect to drop to 140 pounds and be bursting with testosterone.

[everyminutelive]

I think I will. I gain muscle easily, I am not sure about any other symptoms but I think I am fine. Thanks mn

[john911]

Depending on your age your testosterone may be really low. Remember the "normal range" also is that for a sixty year old and what is normal for a sixty year old isn't for say a 24 year old. Gynecomastia? Erectile problems? Feel well? If you are only doing it for muscle gain you are doing it for the wrong reasons. Also your bones could suffer and you are at higher risk for other things like heart disease, diabetes............. So muscle mass should be the last thing on your mind.

[john911]

If you are at all concerned about fertility talk to your doctor about it before you go on the therapy and please do not take it unless you are perscribed it you need to monitor the levels constantly also to excess testosterone can turn into estrogen there are lots of negatives so be careful.

[john911]

sorry I keep posting, but you need to see an endocrinologist specializing in reproductive issues.

[everyminutelive]

John, I appreciate your input. I am 31. I do not have any erectile issues. I get anxiety attacks pretty bad at times though. Ill look into these things, I think 370 is low for my age?

[everyminutelive]

Muscle gain is not my intention. I am looking at the other aspect that you mentioned.

[skin_kin]

I think 370 is quite low for your age. Mine was 330 at the age of 44 and was considered low. Now it is just 140 (I am 46) and I suffer from continuous anxiety, insomnia e.t.c. Been on Tostran gel for a couple of days. So I suggest that you get the advise of an endocrinologist as soon as possible.Weight loss could probably help.

[john911]

Good luck guys. I am getting the results for my hormone test next week and I am a litlle worried.

[skin_kin]

Good luck to you, too, John! I can understand your worries - actually I am permanently in a worried state during the last six months. However, I think everything will be OK in the long run.

[everyminutelive]

Thanks guys, yeah I usually feel anxious. I am going to look into this. Good luck guys

[lowT]

All us guys have low testosterone and we all mention anxiety what a coincedence!

[john911]

It is actually not a coincedence low testosterone causes anxiety and depression among many other things. I am still waiting for my test results but I have many symptoms of low testosterone. I even get anxiety about going places and being social sometimes, luckily my wife is understanding. I have been like this since I quit drinking and smoking weed. I have also been depressed for a while. I am kind of hoping my hormone test will show something wrong so I can start to try and get it fixed. Anyone else have health anxiety or hypochondria? Lately I have been freaking out and I just don't feel "Well".

[skin_kin]

Yes, it is a very common trait - anxiety and the rest of the symptoms. It is no coincidence. I am also freaking out and have lack of coordination, insomnia, I get annoyed by vivid colours (especially red) and have pain in the belly area and in the back. All these I call "female" symptoms, just like having a very bad menopause. Also the therapeutic dosage of testosterone may have unwanted results - too much is as bad as too low. Doctors several times misunderstand hypogonadism as depression, but this is wrong. Depression and/or anxiety can occur as secondary results of low testosterone, but it is much more effective to treat the primary cause, that is the hormonal imbalance. I personally opted for the second, hope it gets restored.

[skin_kin]

I would also like to add that, at least the way I feel it, anxiety caused by low testosterone has a more "physical" character in it. What I mean is that although one may be outgoing and willing to control his life, somehow his body (including his nerves!) is reluctant to follow. From a number of people I know, true anxiety/depression (non-testosterone induced) has a more "emotional" and self-abandoning character, irrespective of physical symptoms. I do not think that anyone of us would have his testosterone tested or get into detailed med tests if we were really depressed.

[skin_kin]

Sorry for keeping posting. An additional differentiating element is the fact that low testosterone anxiety usually fluctuates in a different daily pattern than depression. It peaks during the day (depression may improve).

[john911]

What do you mean by this? Anxiety and depression are two totally different things. The anxiety I have experienced led me to believe I was having a heart attack when on the other had the type of depression I have experienced was more lathargic and lack of drive. I don't experience anxiety as much as I do fatigue and aches. Usually the fatigue and aches peak during the day time and subside once I am off work and at home in the evening.

[john911]

I experience health anxiety and have become somewhat of a hypochondriac quite often too.

[skin_kin]

What I mean by anxiety is something like "hot flashes", just the same way women get through a bad menopause. It is a general feeling of irritation, neurosity and inability to lay down and focus on doing things. I can have it for many hours, usually noon to early evening. This is also responsible for my insomnia. I do not have lethargy but do feel some fatigue, depending on the day.

[john911]

I have fatigue and this feeling that I cannot concentrate on things sometimes my eyes go blurry. I work with computers so it might be related. In the morning and during the day I experience this with headaches and at night it subsides. I have insomnia and find it hard to sleep right now in fact it is almost 2 in the morning. I have general aches, pains and a feeling of not being well. It is starting to effect my life and I am scared that I am being a hypochondriac I get my results to my test in 2 days. Sometimes I experience slight pain in my testicles. My bones make popping noises alot I read it is fluid in the joints. I just feel not well and overall weaker than I did before.

[skin_kin]

Same symptoms here. I have it for 6 months now, and it has reduced my life quality to a real minimum. I know from some female friends of mine that they had similar symptoms when they has their menopause (a lot of anxiety, depression, etc) BUT the funny thing is that, immediately after they took hormonal replacement, they were back in their tracks as if nothing has happened before. I wonder why this does not work with us.

[skin_kin]

I would also like to add that I think that my problems started as soon as I quit taking Nolvadex (tamoxifen) for over 18 months. This was prescribed to me by my wife's gyno in order to increase my sperm count (it is an estrogen receptor blocker) , but later I learned that it is a very strong steroid that should not be given to somebody for more than 2-3 months.  So maybe (a big maybe) I also suffer from steroid withdrawal symptoms.

[john911]

How old are you guys?

[john911]

sorry i just looked above

[john911]

Have any of you had success with hormone replacement. The symptoms I mainly want to fix are fatigue, aches, erectile problems, weight gain, and the feeling of not being well. Also I am planning to have kids soon I have read that testosterone replacement therapy can cause infertility is this true? If so is their anyway around it? I want to have kids soon , but I hate feeling this way. Does insurance pay for TRT or do you guys pay out of pocket? I have insurance, but I'm not sure if I can afford treatment. How much does it cost including the blood testing? I am assuming that you have to periodically take tests to make sure things are within range.

[skin_kin]

I am now entering week 2 on Trostan and already feel better. Unfortunately it is true that replacement therapy can cause infertility, so one way around it is to stimulate directly the testicles (I think they use prolactine for this). As for the insurance, I live in Europe so the cost of the treatment is covered.

[john911]

Is the infertility permanent or is it reversible if you stop taking replacement.

[lowT]

You mentioned some pain in your testicles, i also have this in my right nut and groin.
I mentioned this to my Dr before i returned an abnormal free test result and he examined me and said there were no lumps and told me not to worry.
I researched a thing called a varicocele which is a varicose vain in your sack, in the article i read it said that they can cause an abnormality in the functioning of your testes and lower testosterone production.

You said you dont feel well what did you mean by this?
I just dont feel like myself, i feel disinterested in everything and a bit fuzzy headed, i also have a lot of nausea.

[skin_kin]

The infertility is reversible. I also have the right nut pain and a 1st degree varicose vain. It is not pathological. 2nd and 3rd degree varicoses should be treated, however.  

[john911]

"You said you dont feel well what did you mean by this? "

I mean disinterested in everything, disconnected, irritable, weak, tired, fuzzy headed, aches and pains all over, pain in testicles that rotates and sometimes goes into my legs..............I also have gynecomastia and slight ed, but no serious symptoms i.e. need to go to the hospital. I DON'T FEEL LIKE MYSELF. That is why I say I don't feel well. I can handle the way I feel it just feels like something is not right.  I may have a varicocele above my left testicle. It is not very big and I cannot always feel it, but in the evening and at night it is more prominent especially when I am standing. I also have no lumps in my testicles although I have a slightly and I stress slightly swollen lymph node on my right inner thigh that is tender. I also have a tender spot on my stomach, but no lump. I remember reading on one website one of the symptoms of low t is hypochondria or a feeling of not being well. The three weeks that led up to my hormone test were hell.
I originally thought i was having a heart attack then I thought I might have male breast cancer got an ultrasound and they said it looked suspicious. Got  a second opinnion and the surgeon I saw said they were full of sh*t and were known to do stuff like that to make money off the biopsy and there is a liability issue if it doesn't meet specific criteria for further investigation. Anyway it was a anxiety attack and gynecomastia. During this time I was not eating well and sleeping very little I lost about 20 pounds in less than a month. I plan on retaking my hormone test after seeing a endocrinologist this time more detailed and indepth. I expect the results to be a little better as I have put the weight back on, been eating healthy and sleeping better.

Blah blah blah blah

I just want to fix what ever is wrong with me.

[john911]

Oh yeah my bones have been making popping noises alot lately. It doesn't hurt it is just kind of weird.

[john911]

I have one to I think. I am wondering though if it is fixed does testosterone level increase? I am hoping to naturally raise my testosterone levels then if not successful using treatment.  It looks like I have a long road ahead of me though and I need to loose alot of weight. I already quit smoking cigarettes and weed, changed my diet and started exercising, but I am noticing it is harder than it was before.

[skin_kin]

Yeah, it is also hard! Especially the anxiety and insomnia part.

[lowT]

On june 1st you mentioned you had a hormone test coming up, have you got the results back yet, if so how did you go?

[lowT]

How is your treatment going, still improving i hope?
What dose is your treatment?

I think you mentioned in an eralier post that anxiety caused by low testosterone feels more physical than mental, i sometimes worry about things but the majority of my symptoms are physical aches, pains, light headedness, trouble sleeping but my worst symptom is nausea.
I hope your right and maybe some T - therapy can get me back on track.

[skin_kin]

I will have the test next Thursday. What counts for me is not the test results but my feeling of well-being (which has been lost during the last six months). I also hope that T-therapy will get us back on track. According to all available scientific literature (I have access to every scientific journal in the world) it should. However, I have not managed to read anywhere how long it takes before one can feel a substantial difference. I am now taking Trostan gel (60 mg/day) but improvement is marginal. My major concern is that my symptoms are not due to low T but some other disorder, e.g. major depression. However, I never had ANY psychological problems in my whole life, while the timing of the symptoms coincides with withdrawing from Nolvadex treatment.

My major symptoms are aches in the belly (fibromyalgia), brain fog (difficulty to focus) and, above all, insomnia (I feel like choking upon falling asleep).

Please keep me posted on your progress too. It is a great help, you know.

[skin_kin]

By the way, did you ever experience vague muscle pain in the abdominal area?

[john911]

Here they are sad, but true.

Dhea(NL)                          458ng/DL           Ref range142-1410
Testosterone, total (DSL)   346Ng/DL          Ref range  190-1037
Estradiol (DSL)                  32 PG/ML         None given
Cortisol                             14.8 Ug/DL        None given

I am going to retest them in a month, because there were many things I believe that effected the levels. During this time I thought I had cancer. I wasn't sleeping or eating enough. I lost 20 pounds in like 3 weeks. I also took the test at around 12:00 when I re-take it I plan on doing it as early as possible. I have gained back most of the weight, quit smoking cigarettes and weed, been exercising, taking a multivitamin daily, and eating a healthy diet.

[everyminutelive]

I just read an article on the web about a bodybuilder with T levels over 21,000 nl crazy.

[john911]

Was he on steroids? That is crazy I wonder if he would let me borrow about 500 of those.

[everyminutelive]

LOL, YES lots and lots. They were also talking about how a bodybuilder was on steroids for a long time and when he got off of them the tests couldn't even pick up trace amounts of testosterone in his system, see there kids thats why you don't use steroids off the street. Almost all bodybuilders are using steroids, the average T levels for these muscle freaks are in the 3000 range. But usually, according to this article, when they go off the roids their T levels do not go back to normal and drop below average levels.

[john911]

I wonder if HRT has any effect like this. If you take TRT and then get off of it does normal production return? I mean if your levels are low to begin with and you take TRT I heard natural production shuts down. So after you are not able to take it anymore is it much worse? Can you use it as a temporary fix to bring up your levels then get off and maintain them yourself?

[skin_kin]

Hey guys! Go carefully with the steroids! I had enough of my own problems with tamoxifen...

[lowT]

I have experienced vague abdominal pain, side pain and lower back pain, my doctor thinks its all just psychosomatic.
I dont know if he's right or not but it feels pretty real to me.

I hope you continue to improve on your current therapy, if not there are other forms of T therapy such as injections either fortnightly or long term 12 weeks or implants that i have heard in some people are more effective than the gels.

[lowT]

All body builders on steroids surely you must be joking, theyr'e just geneticaly gifted!

There was a story in my local paper the other day about a young bloke just about to enter his first body building contest, his 18 and a lot bigger than i ever got when i was lifting weights, its probably just a coincedence that the owner of the gym was busted for selling steroids 2 years ago.

Haven't heard from you for a while are you feeling any better, have you started any T-therapy.

[skin_kin]

Actually I am starting seeing some improvement (2 wks on gel), so I do not think that these pains (sooo common to us hypogonal men) are psychosomatic.

It also seems that 12-w injections are the definite solution. Thanks for the info.

[aniche]

dear doc
i am a new comer to this discussion. i have been married for five years and do not have any children as yet. my libido has been very low and hence i did a set of tests. my testosterone levels have come as 1.64ngm/ml with prolactin levels of 15. semen analysis results reveal a count of 26 million with motility being 20. i weigh 220 pounds with my ht being 6 feet. do you think i have infertility secondary to low testosterone levels.

[aniche]

hello doc,

my doctor has prescribed me testosterone tablets in order to improve my sperm counts and treat my infertility. is it advisable as i have read that exogenous testosterone can casu decreased sperm production.

[john911]

I have heard that oral tablets for testosterone is the worst for and can cause liver or kidney problems. It causes infertility unless you take HCG talk to your doctor if he is telling you testosterone replacement will help your fertility get another doctor. Good Luck