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Maternal Fetal Specialists "pushing" Genetic Counseling???
HI gals, here's another one for you. I'm feeling offended and I am wondering if I'm just being too sensitive about being 40 (okay, old).
I go in to MFM (Maternal Fetal Medicine) on 11/5 for my diagnostic u/s (for nuchal translucency, etc) and they asked me if I wanted all the other tests, too. I said I was going to wait and see what the results were of this u/s before proceeding with either other tests or meeting with the Genetic Counselor.
Well, they then informed me that they'd already scheduled me with the Genetic Counselor and they recommended that ALL women at my "late advanced maternal age" (exact words) and they highly recommend I keep this appointment to go over all the "many, many" defects that can occur in conceptions at my age. WHATEVER.
I told her that I wasn't interested in a Doom and Gloom report of what may or may not be wrong with my child until I had some reason to suspect that something may or may not be wrong with my child.
I just felt like I was being judged and chastized for being pregnant at 40, AS IF I was such a menace to society for populating our earth with defective kids...
Am I being too sensitive?
I go in to MFM (Maternal Fetal Medicine) on 11/5 for my diagnostic u/s (for nuchal translucency, etc) and they asked me if I wanted all the other tests, too. I said I was going to wait and see what the results were of this u/s before proceeding with either other tests or meeting with the Genetic Counselor.
Well, they then informed me that they'd already scheduled me with the Genetic Counselor and they recommended that ALL women at my "late advanced maternal age" (exact words) and they highly recommend I keep this appointment to go over all the "many, many" defects that can occur in conceptions at my age. WHATEVER.
I told her that I wasn't interested in a Doom and Gloom report of what may or may not be wrong with my child until I had some reason to suspect that something may or may not be wrong with my child.
I just felt like I was being judged and chastized for being pregnant at 40, AS IF I was such a menace to society for populating our earth with defective kids...
Am I being too sensitive?
Christina, The problem is that you are educated and intelligent, as anyone can see from your eloquent explatives. You won't be pushed around, because you've lived life enough to know better. So the secretaries that "run" the office and the patients, have difficulty with pushing you around. Thats what it seems to me.
Actually, usually by the time you get to the genetic counselors (educated and usually understanding of mutual respect concepts), they are usually pretty informative, and most of the time, reassuring. My sister had a perfect, beautiful girl at age 42, 3 months ago. She is an educated, savvy woman, a lawyer who works in the field of medical malpractice. She says that when she went to see the Genetics Specialist, she went in thinking--- good or bad outcome/odds/Doom and Gloom -- whatever -- no information could change her mind about the little life in her belly. She was fierce about giving that baby ever chance. She actually came away really impressed with what she learned from the guy, he actually eliminated most of, if not all of her worry. I asked her why she went, and she explained it from a perspective I had not even imagined -- from a lawyer's perspective (imagine that?). She says the pressure to see a Genetics expert comes from a need to educate the patient, so a doctor doesn't get sued later for "wrongful birth." Can you believe that?. Someone actually sued their Dr. because their child was born defective, and it was quite unexpected, and they never got a chance to terminate....ugh. Well, much of medicine today is driven by the need to protect from lawsuits, and the desires of medical insurance companies. So that, coupled with bitchy secretaries, makes one want to eat 2 apples a day --- one for you and one for baby of course. Wink.
Angie
Actually, usually by the time you get to the genetic counselors (educated and usually understanding of mutual respect concepts), they are usually pretty informative, and most of the time, reassuring. My sister had a perfect, beautiful girl at age 42, 3 months ago. She is an educated, savvy woman, a lawyer who works in the field of medical malpractice. She says that when she went to see the Genetics Specialist, she went in thinking--- good or bad outcome/odds/Doom and Gloom -- whatever -- no information could change her mind about the little life in her belly. She was fierce about giving that baby ever chance. She actually came away really impressed with what she learned from the guy, he actually eliminated most of, if not all of her worry. I asked her why she went, and she explained it from a perspective I had not even imagined -- from a lawyer's perspective (imagine that?). She says the pressure to see a Genetics expert comes from a need to educate the patient, so a doctor doesn't get sued later for "wrongful birth." Can you believe that?. Someone actually sued their Dr. because their child was born defective, and it was quite unexpected, and they never got a chance to terminate....ugh. Well, much of medicine today is driven by the need to protect from lawsuits, and the desires of medical insurance companies. So that, coupled with bitchy secretaries, makes one want to eat 2 apples a day --- one for you and one for baby of course. Wink.
Angie
So sorry for your loss - but I think a lot of people opt against the genetic testing during pregnancy because so much of it is invasive and we want to do everything that we can to keep our little ones healthy - but unfortunately, when you lose one in utero - there is no longer a need to worry about the health of the little one and more then anything, you just need sometimes need answers as to why
You are going to second guess every decision that you made and then second guess them again - wait for the results and the next pregnancy and then decide.
You are going to second guess every decision that you made and then second guess them again - wait for the results and the next pregnancy and then decide.
I am 39 and 13wk pg. We had our NT testing last week, with a great tech ...after hearing yir story wow we are thankful for that. Our tech saidf everything was perfect on the U/S we got our results back this week with phenomal results... they said it was as if I were 20!!!!!!!!!!! my risk came back no different so tell them for me to stick there late advanced age ! Just because we have choosen to have a baby being mature doesnt mean our body are ancient!.... I am a very young 39! ok well I guess I'll say 20 yr old...lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 good luck to you, I would mention the rudeness to the office director or mgr!
EVeryone here has given me much food for thought. I can now see both sides, pros and cons, do all of the testing and will be engaging in serious soul searching this next week to decide what exactly to do. Thanks everyone!
Well ,, I am 37 and was offered the MFM and NT .. but opted out for the same reason as many of you sited ... they are guesses based on statistics and age ... and i didn't want to do invasive amnio ... then i had fetal demise at 12 weeks and never miscarried ... now we are awaiting genetic test results ... the irony is that i fought against genetic tests and now i am eagerly awaiting the results only to get some answers .. some closure ... in retrospect, maybe i should've gone for the tests .... maybe the outcome today would not have been so out of the blue ... maybe i would still not have been able to make the decision that nature made for me .. but maybe the pain would've been less ... who knows ... but if i get pregnant again .. i think i will do the tests ... maybe the CVS as it is early though it is invasive ... and the odds of problem from it have reduced a lot now (i hear it is 1 in a 1000) .. i don't know what we'll do .. has anyone here had a CVS done ?
I just want add my amen to all of the posts especially renogirl. My experience's very similar to lots of these women and the "genetic counselor" assigned to us actually advised us not to have a child because of my age but when the dr. came in, he had a totally different attitude, breaking the odds down to 97%, 98%, etc. That made the session all the better. You just follow your heart!
I've met with two genetic counselors this year so far - whoo hooooo - I met with the first when we started this process with our RE because I've had two nieces born with a rare terminal genetic disorder - she basically told me NOTHING that my sister hadn't told me already - when we scheduled the 20 wk ultrasound with the perinatologist, I went in for what I thought was an appt with the doctor and ended up spending an hour with some little twit of maybe 25 years of age who went over the exact same things the first counselor had gone over with us at the beginning of the year. She tried to act very kind and sympathetic and understanding and didn't even have her facts about my nieces' disorder correct - I had to correct HER several times - lol - and I'm just warped enough to enjoy making her look unprepared - basically they will tell you that you are at higher risk for genetic issues due to your age - WELL DUH!!!!!!!!!!! Do they truly think we are that stupid????? Speaking to the counselor is noninvasive and won't be anything but maybe frustrate you as a total waste of time - your choice what you do - if you are comfortable with the knowledge that you may already have - then skip the appt regardless of what they tell you! Good luck either way
I also agree with Montie - after speaking to the genetic counselor I almost felt he was talking us out of the screen since our odds were very low before the screen even being 38y at delivery (and having a sister who had a trisomy 18)!!! We still went ahead with the screen since it was noninvasive and it gave us a lot of reassurance. None of the doctors I have seen so far have had any concerns with my age!!
Wow. Things are different here in NY. It is commonplace for women around here to start their families late. I never heard a thing from my OB/GYN about genetic counseling. I have plenty of friends that have had children in their late thirties and early forties, and I have never heard that complaint. Maybe the OBs around here are just used to older moms. Maybe it's because I'm close to NYC.
I agree with mlb1234. The genetic counselor was required for me too. It wasn't bad. They make it clear that even results that say you are at higher odds, may mean nothing. For example, my counselor had a patient that after her testing, her ratio for Downs was 1 out of 2 chances of having a Downs baby and the baby was fine when it was born. At that point, my husband looked at me and said, "why are we here, why are we even doing this?" Anyway, I admit to having been completely freaked out by my ratio for downs. But in the end, it is still like a 99.62% chance that it is good. My suggestion is, if you are going to do it, realize that the results of the NT testing are guesses based on certain things and are in no way concrete one way or the other.
If I had to do it again, I really don't know if I would. The thing is, when I talked to my gyno 4 years ago about even thinking of having another child she said if you are going to do it, do it now, and then right into all the risks and ratio for downs and everything else. I decided that I would be too freaked out to go through that and worried constantly and gave up. Now, here I am pregant by some miracle forced to deal with this anyway. When we are 35 and up, they immediately go into all the bad, and never the good. My doctor really isn't like that. He doesn't seem to be worried at all, and thinks that me and the baby are just fine. As a matter of fact, he actually called me at home to discuss the amnio I had scheduled when I was totally freaked out. He helped me to decide to wait until after the level 2 ultrasound. Uggh. It's a hard road for us old ladies.
If I had to do it again, I really don't know if I would. The thing is, when I talked to my gyno 4 years ago about even thinking of having another child she said if you are going to do it, do it now, and then right into all the risks and ratio for downs and everything else. I decided that I would be too freaked out to go through that and worried constantly and gave up. Now, here I am pregant by some miracle forced to deal with this anyway. When we are 35 and up, they immediately go into all the bad, and never the good. My doctor really isn't like that. He doesn't seem to be worried at all, and thinks that me and the baby are just fine. As a matter of fact, he actually called me at home to discuss the amnio I had scheduled when I was totally freaked out. He helped me to decide to wait until after the level 2 ultrasound. Uggh. It's a hard road for us old ladies.
It was REQUIRED for us to have genetic counseling prior to having the nuchal ultrasound!!! We had no choice. Our maternal fetal clinic requires this with ALL first trimester screens. It's possible that is how your clinic operates too. I felt it was very informative and highly recommend it. They explain the tests and what exactly the results mean and what they can and cannot tell you. The counselor will go over your family history and take everything into account. He/she will help you make decisions on what tests to do or not do based on the results.
Wow. Thanks everyone!!! I thought I was so peeved because I'm way too hormonal right now. What a RELIEF!!!
WendyG: What they told me was that a genetic counselor would go over the risks for someone of my very advanced maternal age to conceive and deliver a child. F THAT and screw them. Do they think I'm some kind of idiot with my head in the sand??? I know there is an increased risk for this and that and the other thing...and you know what they told me at my first appointment? They said, and I quote, "while literature suggests that the risk for Downs Syndrome is approximately 1:200 when your 40, we in our office suggest that is actually 1:60" Apparantly they are SMARTER than all the medical professionals at Harvard and other great schools who I've read as the authors of these studies.
They did not tell me they do any work up on either myself or my husband, in fact he's not even scheduled to be there, so it really is just a doom and gloom session.
I am going to give the doctor a piece of my mind at my appointment and demand respect as an educated, experienced, NOT OLD, newly pregnant for-the-third-time mother. If they can not afford me that respect I deserve as the one who pays their salary and their bills and leave the condescending finger-pointing BS to someone more deserving, like a YOUNGER mother taking recreational drugs while pregnant or some such thing, then I'll find a new practice. Pronto.
Dang that felt good. Breathe in, breathe out.
:0)
Christina
WendyG: What they told me was that a genetic counselor would go over the risks for someone of my very advanced maternal age to conceive and deliver a child. F THAT and screw them. Do they think I'm some kind of idiot with my head in the sand??? I know there is an increased risk for this and that and the other thing...and you know what they told me at my first appointment? They said, and I quote, "while literature suggests that the risk for Downs Syndrome is approximately 1:200 when your 40, we in our office suggest that is actually 1:60" Apparantly they are SMARTER than all the medical professionals at Harvard and other great schools who I've read as the authors of these studies.
They did not tell me they do any work up on either myself or my husband, in fact he's not even scheduled to be there, so it really is just a doom and gloom session.
I am going to give the doctor a piece of my mind at my appointment and demand respect as an educated, experienced, NOT OLD, newly pregnant for-the-third-time mother. If they can not afford me that respect I deserve as the one who pays their salary and their bills and leave the condescending finger-pointing BS to someone more deserving, like a YOUNGER mother taking recreational drugs while pregnant or some such thing, then I'll find a new practice. Pronto.
Dang that felt good. Breathe in, breathe out.
:0)
Christina
i just turned 39 today happy birthday to me! the doctor do not want us to start trying for a bay again until 2 cycles from now. She stated that me and my husband needs to go to genitic counseling first. he is 38. What is that going to do for us since the baby we lost did not have any gentic problems. I just believe this is a catch all thing when the don't really know what the problem is. We will go anyway hopefully maybe they can tell me why i keep having m/c's.
You're NOT BEING TOO SENSITIVE AT ALL! I think we all would feel as offended as you felt. Hang in there, and follow your instincts. I agree, why get the doom and gloom warnings unless there's some reason for more tests. It's stressful enough for us "old ladies" to be pregnant, we don't need any more fear-based stress placed upon us. What exactly IS Genetical Counseling anyway? I've heard people of our 'advaned age' going in for it before they get pregnant. Is it just an appt where they warn you of all the risks, or do they actually do work ups on you and your hubby to see if you have anything wrong with you that might hinder a pg? Good luck with everything!
no ,you're not being too sensitive,the problem is not yr age ,in my opinion,the main problem is the cynicism of the modern medical system,the problem is when doctors would easily sacrifice one healthy child-possibly of a 40yr old woman-because the woman was sent straight to an invasive test -which may fail-just because of her age,because dr didn't have a spare moment to properly consult the woman about risks,because dr would never jeopardise his medical reputation (with a potential defective child) etc.All of the above happened to me,so my advice to you is ignore all the rude nurses-midwifes etc.,take one step at a time,do the nt and demand proper consultation with a hopefully nice doctor.Take yr time to be certain about what you want to do...Good luck with everything!
WOW I just dont understand WHERE ON EARTH THEY FIND THESE RUDE @SS PEOPLE to work in these DR offices. You are not being tooo sensitive. Iknow most people here wouldnt do things any differently EVEN if there were a problem and I say why go through extra testing UNLESS there is a reason to suspect a problem. Many Many people get PG at "advanced and even late advanced maternal age" Heck I'm 34 and was told I'm "advanced maternal age" and AM SO GLAD I WAITED TO HAVE CHILDREN AS I WILL APPRECIATE THEM WAY MORE NOW THAN I MIGHT HAVE 8 YEARS AGO...not to mention with my EX LOL
Hang in there and good luck on your test :O)
((Sheila)) 26w6d
Hang in there and good luck on your test :O)
((Sheila)) 26w6d
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