Vaginal Cuts and Herpes

[jp813]

Grace,

I have recently been diagnosed with Herpes 1 (not a suprise) and Herpes 2.  Since then, I have poured over the doctors and others comments on false positives, symptoms (or lack there of), etc.  I have been married for the 10 years and with my husband for 13 and feel very strongly that he has not cheated on me.  So I'm figuring if I do indeed have it, then I've had it for at least 13 years.  I'm definitely coming to terms with it after the inital shock, but there are many questions still lingering based on all that I've read and understand about this very complex STD.  Here's my "story": For many years, I have struggled with "paper cuts" in my labial folds (always right on the crease)that have seemingly become more frequent and more uncomfortable in the past few years. Some heal quickly, others not so fast. During these times, my labia is often swollen, the interior red and it is often accompanied by itching.  My husband, on the other hand, has never had a noticeable outbreak.  My husband told his Doc that he may have been exposed, but was told if he's never had an outbreak than he doesn't have it so don't worry abou getting tested.  We're going to test him anyway through my doctor, but here are my questions and test results from the Herpes Select Test.

Results: Herpe 1- 5.2, Herpes 2- 3.0

1) Does it seem strange that my husband hasn't had a noticeable outbreak after all these years?

2) If he tests negative, would it make my positive result more likely to be a false positive after 10+ years of unprotected sex?

3) Why, if the tendency is to have less outbreaks over time, do I seem to be having more? (Do my kids really give me that much stress?? :)

4) Should I be retested along with my husband or just wait for his results to come back and then decide?

[sparkeler]

Alot of people with HSV2 don't know it.  My guess is your husband is infected (and probably infected before you two were married,)  but never knew it.  This is very possible and often the case in couples.  If he is negative and you haven't cheated then it could be a false negative.  But anything 3.0 or higher is most likely to be accurate.  Since you are having more frequent outbreaks, why not start Valtrex and see if that may help some?  Have you had the Western Blot test done to confirm your positive result?  If not, you may want to do so.  But in all honesty, your symptoms along with the positive blood test suggest that you do have HSV2.  My guess is your husband does too.  Best of luck to you.

[jp813]

Thanks for the comments.  I agree that it does seem likely. Currently,  I'm on day 5 of a twice a day 5-day Valtrex treatment.  This morning I woke up with a new cut.  This makes a month's worth of symptoms coming and going with only a few "clear days".  Its these kinds of things that make me say, "Hmmmm..could this be something else?"  I have not had a Western Blot as of yet, but I might consider it.  What irks me is I'm right on the cusp of being a false positive b/c of also being HSV-1 positive.  From what I read on the doctors site, a strongly positive 1 and a "weakly positive 2 (anything from 1.0 to 3.0) could suggest its a false positive. Not to mention my symptoms aren't  "typical" as I don't get blisters per se.  Its all rather frustrating. I'm anxious to get my husband tested as I feel that he will most likely be positive as well amd then it would alleviate some of the wondering!

[gracefromHHP]

I wish I had the contact info for one of the old reg's over on the webmd herpes board - you would think her story was your own!!  She too over the years had mild issues down yonder and after about 12-13 years of being married they started getting more frequent. she asked her doc to test her for herpes and he said no way no how don't worry about it. Next month she's back again - test me for herpes and he's the same way. Finally after her bugging him enough he tested her and lo and behold - she was hsv2+. Hubby got tested and he was negative so she knew she had had it since before she met him.  To this day he's still hsv2 negative as far as I know.

I would recommend daily suppressive therapy - the 1gm a day ( or 500mg twice a day ) dose if you are going to use valtrex. Your symptoms are frequent so you need the higher dose. Don't even mess around with episodic therapy for now since you get so little bang for your buck out of it in general.  Meanwhile get your hubby tested too so you know if you have to be concerned about transmission or not.  No symptoms doesn't mean no infection.  

If you are still having symptoms while on the daily suppressive therapy then it's time for a further work up.  I assume they've been testing you for yeast and bacterial infections?  Also sometimes as we get older or because of our hormones ( or being on the pill ) our genital skin thins out and breaks more easily.   You can try topical estrogens to help restore the skin and make it stronger again.  Also lube, lube and more lube - it's well worth going onling and getting a good quality lube instead of ky or even astroglide.  

Ob's don't always get less over time unfortunately ( HHH will argue with me on this one but there's research to back up what I say so I stand by it 100% ).    Also changes in our bodies can often trigger more frequent recurrences too.  And if the kids don't stress us out - the hubby will ;)

Hopefully you can get to the bottom of all this soon and get some relief and go back to feeling "normal" down yonder again :)

grace

[jp813]

Grace,
Thanks so much for your input.  It does sound like that story could be mine!  ugh.  I guess there's just no rhyme or reason to this STD.  Just have to learn how to manage it and move on!  Sounds weird, but I'm hoping my hubby is positive so we don't have to worry about transmission.  Do you have any recommendations for lube?  The KY doesn't work all that well IMO.

Again, thank you...I'll keep you posted on the hubby's results.

J

[jp813]

And one more thing in response to whether they've been checking for other infections.  Yes, indeed they have.  Over the past two years, I've had trouble with Group B Strep rearing its ugly head. (yes, that strep that most people only worry about when they're pregnant...and I'm not, but did test positive for it when I WAS pregnant).  Apparently, lab tests revealed I had rather high levels of GBS when I went in to get checked for what was ailing me.  It didn't really present itself as yeast-nor did it clear up with a diflucan- so that's when they went for the other bacterial and GBS testing.  Sometimes I wonder how much of the itching was due to the GBS and how much to the HSV.  Yes, my Vuh-J-J (as Oprah would say) has been a mess the past couple of years.  Seems to have gotten bent out of shape after placing an IUD (which is now out).  Wish I knew why my body is reacting the way it is...

[gracefromHHP]

Some gals really are miserable with gbs - I'm sure it didn't help with all your issues down yonder that's for sure :(  Having constant vaginal infections can really weaken the skin too.  

I like millenium lube - I got a sample of it at the last cdc std conference and really like it and actually need to order some more of it. I've tried eros but it didn't seem to last as long.  I know some folks like jo lube but I"ve never tried it ( different from joe lube ).   I have some samples here from Joe lube but I haven't tried them yet ( their condom packages are really cool ! ).  Maybe if I could get a volunteer I could do a science experiment for ya? he he he  

grace

[estrellab]

Yes ladies I am the one with the cuts and irritations for yrs and the pos results. I have become a regular the past few weeks only and have never known or been aware of these boards before now. Yes, I thought what the hell with the darn cuts and low and behold my suspicions are right. We need to talk. No, my husband is hsv 2 neg. Pos for 1, thanks to his mom who gave it to the whole family. Wow, what a smart mom, eh? Not! Anyway, going through it too and here for you if you need me. I am on Acyclovir and hoping for no more of these dumb cuts. Let's talk and support eachother. This board is my life saver. No one else to talk to about this, trust me. My husband gets bored and frustrated with my continued obsession. I am here to help. Lord knows I need help ladies. Back atcha soon, Estrella

[jp813]

Yeah, I hear ya.  It does seem funny how I'm the one researching all this and he's like, "Hey, whatever, if I have it, I have it!  Not like I'm going anywhere.  We're in it together for the long haul".  Meanwhile, I'm spending hours on the computer finding out as much as I can.  Maybe its because I'm having the "issues" and he's not!

These forums have been helpful both for information and realizing that you're not the only one.  Wish it didn't have such a social stigma. ISure does help to know there's people out there that you can talk to about it.  Hang in there.  

[estrellab]

Yes and thanks for answering. I not only am a nurse myself but have had fears and phobias of this rotten disease for so long and now to find out, I myself have it. Ya, kindof sucks big time but hey, at least I know it is not all in my head. I would pull out the mirror and look and have my husband look when I would get really itchy and irritated and he would say, nope, you are fine, just some tears and redness, no lesions. I would be like, wheeew, thank god it is ok. Deep down though, I think I knew. You don't just have this jump out of your skin itching and swelling with these tears coming and going and have it be nothing. trust me, I agreed ya, it could be dryness, yeast, pre menopause, laundry soap, period coming on with the blood sitting there moist and irritating, etc. etc. I thought of it all, agreed with it all, etc. but like I said, deep down I knew something just wasen't right and I was right. Hey, let's stay in touch for the support ok?? My husband is doing the same thing, not worried, in it for the long haul, etc. I on the other hand am relieved in a way at the diagnosis as I think I knew for yrs I had to have it, but on the other hand wow, what a yucky diagnosis and one you can't just tell anyone about or talk about causually. Gotta crash now but I really hope to stay in touch and compare notes, provide support for each other, etc. Take care and good luck!! Back atcha soon, EB p.s. Know where to find you and you know where to find me. I need this forum big time and am finding it to be so helpful and anxiety reducing for me.

[jp813]

Completely agree with you on the need for docotrs to be open to the idea of it being herpes, especially if everything else has been ruled out.  I can't figure out why they aren't more open to the idea of it.  What would it hurt to test for it?  Just got a call this morning from my doctor saying they couldn't order up the test for my husband after all, so I guess we'll have to go back to square one with that.  I'm kind of irritated (no pun intended) b/c I wonder if its ever going to feel better down there.  Just finished the Valtrex and it feels dry and irritated again. Feel like I'm going to live in sweats forever! ha ha. Maybe I should try the kind you're on and/or start on a suppressive therapy as Grace suggested.  I guess the most frustrating part is we finally have a diagnosis and I still don't feel better.  I'm so over it.  However, I do agree that it's helpful to have this forum.  Thanks for being there everyone.  Trying my best to stay positive...

[estrellab]

Ya, hear you. We both probably had it for so long and just thought it was dryness, yeast etc. but I hear you, having the diagnosis officially really hits you hard. I got the Acyclovir ordered and so far ok after a month and a half or so. I was always getting tears and irritations to so I know what you mean. My husband got the herpes select test too after I insisted and like i said he is neg for hsv 2 and pos for 1. We had ours done at planned parenthood. Insurance doesn't cover the blood test there but hey, it is worth the piece of mind to just know. I would go to one and ask for the test for him. It is around $100 but hey, worth it. Don't take no for an answer. You can also get the medicine there for cheap it was like $22 for 100 tabs and you take the Acyclovir twice a day. Let me know what you think of my suggestions. EB

[estrellab]

I am so darn over it too after having these irritations for so long. Let's stick together and get eachother through this, eh??

[estrellab]

Oh, another thing. I used a&d ointment for yrs with the dryness and irritations and it was somewhat effective. I decided if carmex feels so good and soothing on your lips, to heck with it, I am trying it on the dry vaginal skin and wow, it feels great. Haven't tried it during an irritation/skin tear time as I haven't had one in a while, but I plan too. Just thought I would mention it to you. Try it, I can't see it being harmful and if feels refreshing like it does when you put it on your lips.

[estrellab]

Hope you are still out there and that we can continue to communicate. It is nice to chat with someone who is in your shoes, and knows what the deal is. Sounds like we have lots in common. Hope to catch up more soon, EB

[jp813]

I'm here!  thanks for the carmex idea.  It might help...if I can ever be completely healed for a day!  Yesterday had a small cut on lower area, today, that one looks better, but the other side started out this morning with a 2-3 inch cut!  Looks better this afternoon and no swelling or redness (which also seems to come and go).  Apparently, my body laughed at that 5 day Valtrex treatment!  Still thinking of trying the suppressive therapy, but for now, I'm keeping a journal to see how long this goes on.  Doesn't it seem that a herpes infection would go away??  I'm going on 6 weeks of having SOMETHING going on down there.  Do you ever get to the point that you're thinking, "maybe I do have a yeast infection or maybe the group b strep is flaring up"  But how would I ever know the difference anymore?  I swear I'm tired of looking at my parts!

[estrellab]

I know and the fact that we both have had these cuts forever and then ended up with our dreaded fear of actually having hsv 2, by the sounds of it after reading your story. It really does sound just like mine. my question is how did we ignore all of this for so many yrs? You were probably told, just like me by the docs and nurse practitioners, you are ok, just dry skin, no lesions, not herpes. I kindof knew it had to be cuz what else would be bugging me off and on like this. 42 is not necessarily a spring chicken but at the same time, I got tired of the menopause idea to explain away my symptoms yr after yr. Plus, looking back, I knew i had had it for over 15 yrs and I was much younger then. I really can't remember when I got it or when it started as I never remember the classic symptoms of fever, chills, lesions, pain, etc. etc. I am getting cold, cough and larygitis. Man, I took another shot of nyquil now. Was kindof worried for a while thinking darn if my throat hurts too much to take the acyclovir, am I going to get the tears starting and redness/swelling again?? So far, unless it is in my head the daily acyclovir seems to be working. I would recommend to you to go to planned parenthood. Then you can get your husband checked out and you can get the acyclovir for cheap. I know it is an individual thing as to which one works best for you but you may try the daily or twice daily I mean, acyclovir. I know Valtrex is more expensive although I don' t know what it costs. Do you feel different now that you have a diagnosis? Like, can't touch down there or at least without washing, is that burn herpes breakout? Why do i itch? It is like every little fricking thing you are wondering what the hell is it herpes? dryness? Ok, gotta roll for now. Just feel like ****. I will be in touch . Glad we met!! Take care and back atcha soon, EB

[estrellab]

another thing I was wondering. I am wondering if sometimes it could be a full outbreak and others either a minor one or just some irritation for some reason. Do you ever get really swollen and itchy with or without tears one time and just a few tears and itching others? This stuff drives you nuts. Especially when you know you have it because it is like, is this an outbreak or dryness, when is the next one coming, should I not touch it now that I know what it is, etc. Just lying in bed trying to sleep off this stupid cold and laryngitis. I will check email off and on. Write whenever and maybe we can try to figure out a way to exchange real emails without exposing our identities over the forum. Look forward to hearing from you. Take care, EB

[estrellab]

I just got to thinking, why did you go get tested? Fed up like me with the cuts and irritations, some worse than others? Sometimes I wonder if we really have it with only cuts and irritations and all but then again, I say to myself whay the hell else would it be coming and going like this throughout the yrs. Ok, back atcha soon, eb

[jp813]

I feel like I could say "ditto" to all your thoughts!  I really can't remember when my cuts started either, but I often do feel like I'm not really convinced that it is Herpes...especially since I'm HSV-1 positive and my HSV-2 was in the range of being a false positive (according to the Dr forum). If it is, it is...but I have to say, I'm not totally convinced.  After all, from everything I've read, nothing says a 6 week outbreak is normal, nor is a tear that heals sometimes overnight.  In the past few days, I started using Aquaphor and it has really made a difference.  I have one cut and its not even bothering me.  I really think there's a good possibility that the dryness has caused the itching and the tears.  I've noticed in the last few years that my vaginal area has become much drier...even in regards to sex.  It takes a lot more fore-play to get her going and even when she does "get going" additional lube is often still needed.  Hormonal changes perhaps?  

In regards to your question about why I was tested...I had gone in for my annual and had a pretty bad cut.  I explained to the NP at my GYN office that one military NP had suggested Herpes several years ago, but didn't send me for a blood test... wanted me to come in when I had a "fresh cut" so she could culture it.  (Why she'd do a culture over a blood test, I'll never know).  Anyway, when I tried to get back in, I was unable and did not have a direct number to her in order to override the "scheduling secretary" nor did I want to have to explain it to someone new.  After that, I decided to go "out in town" for medical care. Since she suggested that, I've been apprehensive about having sex when I had a cut, which was often.  (my poor husband) Not to mention, my overall psychological state was tainted!!  When I explained this at my annual, she suggested getting a blood test as "blood tests don't lie" and "it would put my mind at ease". I'm not sure if she thought it might be herpes or not, but I know my GYN had seen one once and didn't seem the least bit concerned it was  Herpes.

As for if I feel different since the diagnosis.  Yes, in some ways.  Its certainly on my mind a lot.  The initial shock is over and I know life will go on, but yeah, I approach it differently now. I seem to be washing more carefully after getting the mirror out (hee hee), putting my towels in the hamper more often, etc.  Kinda silly...after all, I've gone this long. Well, I'm off to the gym.  (one of my goals since the diagnosis...to take care of me!  :)  Talk to you soon

[estrellab]

I like that take care of me part. I have been sleeping soooo much trying to beat this laryngitis and I pretty much have. Ya, you and me are in similar situations. Part of me says no way, if it were really herpes, it would be on my fingers and in my eyes, etc. as I have looked when I have the tears and swelling, wondering what the hell it is. Then part of me says dryness, yes and like you, has been much worse lately too. Are you even close to my age? Anyway, it does seem rather extreme sometimes the way the swelling and itching get, and looking back on it, i did treat myself for yeast a lot. An ob doc of mine saw my cut one time, I told him to look at it, actually and to culture it, even though he said there was nothing to culture. Of course it was neg. You have to culture it right away, like withing 24-36 hrs if I remember right. I am going to go get another Herpes Select test done at planned parenthood. He NP didn't give me any kinds of numbers just said pos. She said they are either pos or neg. I do believe it in a way, cause wow, what a lot of irritations over the yrs for it to be dryness or nothing. Yet, why doesn't my husband have it? He has type 1 as I said as does his whole fam, thanks to his mom. So, hopefully if and when I get time in the next week or two, I will go back to planned parenthood and get another test just to be completely sure. I know those tests are accurate but hey, one more won't hurt anything. I too have gotten to the point of washing my hands more and always, kindof worried about the towels when I was irritated because I think in the back of my mind I always thought i had it. Just didn't know what else could be driving me so crazy. I know you can't get it through towels but when you have kids you, you are very careful, no?? So, let's go get another test and compare notes again. Have your husband tested for your sanity. It helped me but now I am worried he will get it. See, it is so weird, I have had tears/cuts many times and been with him. Just can't figure it all out. I am taking the acyclovir faithfully in the meantime and crossing my fingers. Talk to you soon. Glad we are in touch. The support is a saving grace. Good luck, EB

[estrellab]

I don't know. Does make me kindof wonder when the acyclovir must be keeping the tears at bay. I hate knowing, I guess. It is not something you can talk openly with many people. My good friend, husband and mom and you and this forum. Such an annoying problem and then having to have this big secret makes it worse. Hope all is well with you. back atcha soon, EB

[jp813]

Hey,  first of all, sorry for forgetting the "b" part of your nickname each time! ;)    I googled "vulva skin splitting" earlier and came up with a few new sites.  (God only knows how many times I've googled "Vaginal Tears, Cuts, etc").  Several things came up for vulval lichen sclerosus and the like...which I've read a little on.  When I mentioned this to the NP at my exam, she immediately said, "Oh no, I've seen that before, you don't have that."  Similar to my doctor saying, "No, that doesn't look like typical herpes" prior to my diagnosis.  I question whether I should call my doctor and say, "Its still here!!  Are you sure you don't want to look into what else this could be??"  The only thing that stops me is I really don't feel like paying for another  Dr visit if they're not going to do anything more-or possibly worse-think I'm a hypochondriac (though it has crossed my own mind over the last several years!!  The only thing going for me is there actually is evidence of something being wrong! )  I noticed you read that one post on the Dr Forum about "burning and itching" on 5/22.  Found it interesting what the dr said regarding the non-response to Valtrex.  If the Valtrex isn't helping her symptoms now, then it must be something other than herpes.  Also, that "herpes doesn't cause such itching anyway".  What???  That's half my problem!  1/2 Itchy, 1/2 Tearing!  So I've gained two things from that post, that Valtrex should have taken care of my outbreak and this problem I have shouldn't itch.  I'm about ready to pay my $10 and ask him what the heck is going on with me!  Hope you had a good weekend...assuming you're in the US and celebrate Memorial day!  :)

[estrellab]

I went back and read that post which Dr HHH answered in the forum on 5/22 (and I replied too) about the herpes and itching. What kind of Doc is he? Herpes causes extreme itching. As a nurse I have always known that, with the amount of research I have done, I know that and the NP I saw after my blood test was pos as well as another NP at the Planned Parenthood clinic said yes, it causes extreme itching an an awful lot of cases. Sure some are very mild or even asymptomatic but herpes definately causes extreme itching. Is this a real doc? Makes you wonder. Sometimes the itching I have makes me want to leave my body it gets so bad. I think that is why in the back of my mind, I have always thought I probably had it. Kindof wish my intuition were not true but hey, at least I can take antivirals now and try to keep outbreaks away. Ok, back atcha soon pal. It is hard to not be obcessed with this stuff, isen't it. Responding to others posts for some reason kindof helps me deal with it better myself. Husbands aren't much better. They are like, hey I would have had it by now and it is not going to change a thing now let's have sex. We women on the other hand are like, no way, you are not in my skin and after this diagnosis, at least as far as I am concerned, sex? No thanks. Not to mention work, kids, etc. I am sure you are on the same page with me on all this as so far we seem so much alike and have almost identical stories and backgrounds. Write when you can. Always look forward to hearing from you. Take care, EB

[estrellab]

Yes and right there with you on your whole post, trust me. I was going to break down too and spend the $15 for an MD posting/question. I think we both ought to go get a second herpes select test for one thing, even though, at least in my case, it probably is herpes. I have googled tears and cuts too off and on for so long and yes, read up on other things it may be so I hear you there. Unless it is in my mind the acyclovir seems to be working (knock on wood). I had one episode prior to my diagnosis, I think, where I was swollen and itchy and had several tears which actually burned when the shower hit them and the hardly ever do so I thought to myself then, ya, I have to have herpes, I just know it. When the NP saw me, of course she thought minor skin irritation and commented on my hands, skin and hair being so dry too. When the test was pos for 2, she herself was really shocked. I do think we ought to post our quest to the doc, get redraws on our herpes select type specific tests and continue to compare notes and provide support for eachother. What do you say new buddy?? Stay in touch. Back atcha soon and good luck to us both, eh?? Sincerely, Estrella