Am I addicted?

[LPB]

This is the first time I have admitted to anyone let alone myself I might have a problem.
I started having panic attacks over a year ago due to a divorce, job change, move etc.  My dr. prescribed Diazapham.  It worked.  But I also drink as well, probably 3-4 glasses of wine a night.  I am now seeing a social worker and have an appointment with a psychatrist this week for meds.  They currently put me on Prozac, which I can't take, makes me have terrible anxiety, tremors, sweats etc.  Stopped taking at at once.  I am also taking Zanax.  5mg once a day.  It makes the panic subside but not for as long of periods of time as it did before.  I am worried that the jitters I get are alcohol related as well.  Is combining the 2 at such a low dose truly dangerous and how do I just stop drinking?  I want to be able to have a glass of wine with friends but not every night.
Any suggestions?  I am in a very lonely place right now and would appreciate the help.

[Witchywoman]

Hi LPB, and welcome to the forum!

That took courage to post to us and admit that you've got a problem...congratulations. I remember when I made my first post. I am a hydrocodone addict, and with the help of this forum, I've been clean now for 3 months, after 5 years of abusing.

It is really good that you are seeing a therapist and a psychiatrist for help.  Meds for panic disorder do help, a lot, but they can't "fix" the underlying cause of the panic disorder. a combination of meds along with good solid therapy can definately change the patterns that induce the panic disorder, so you are on the right track.  If the prozac doesn't help, ask the Doc to try you on something else.  Serzone is a newer med that helps both anxiety, depression, and panic disorder, and tends to not be as agitating. Maybe you could ask them about that.

To blunty answer your question...taking valium and xanax and drinking 3 to 4 glasses of wine a night does sound like a lot to me.  Have you told you Doc and therapist yet? If they are any good, they won't judge you, but will try to help you learn to change the patterns of addictive behavior so you can feel like you have your life back.

Keep posting and let us know how you are doing.

love,
WW

[LPB]

thanks.  that was quick.  i do believe i might have a problem.  yes, i have told my therapist.  she wants me to go to AA.  i am not ready for that, i want to try it on my own first.  i think maybe, or certainly, the panic and drinking are just masking a lot of pain inside.  i have never been alone in my life and am just divorced and live a long way from my family.  i have gone from relationship to relationship and think having some form of drink, drug etc. has kept me from facing things.  it's going to be a rough road.  thank you from the bottom of my heart for responding to me.  i wish you continued success as well.
LPB

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Yes, try by all means to heal yourself on your own. It is possible to do that for some. AA helped me for many years in so many ways, so don't block that approach out of your mind. If nothing else, talk with some people in AA over the phone.

You are taking benzos presently. They can be called "dry whiskey" by many who have had a problem with them. I assume you have a problem otherwise you would'nt be here posting questions. Your brain may be equating the benzos and alcohol as one and the same. That's the problem/dilemma you are facing now. You want this and yet you want that and on and on and on. What do you really want in life? Everything?

Sounds like bitter advise, doesn't it? Come back here again and let the "old pros" help you out. You'll meet many on your journey that can and will help you along the way.

J.B.

[LPB]

Wow!
This is the first time I have ever participated in anything like this.  I am so amazed at the kindness of others and how many others there are like me.
What do I want?  Interesting you should ask.  I just had (30 minutes ago) a session with my therapist.  She truly believes I am very co-dependant.  I have never been alone and the alcohol takes that loneless away at night. For the first time in my 34yrs. I am alone. When you drink you don't have to think.  Somethings gotta give, ya know?
I am working on it but don't want to give it up.  Catch 22, huh?  
I do have a question if anyone knows.  I know I have panic/anxiety disorder.  Thats for sure.  I have that creepy crawly feeling and tremor inside feeling (kind of like people who can't take antihistamines).  Is that from not drinking?  I am not taking a ton of the meds.  Maybe 5mg of Zanax a day, (1 pill) and usually at night.  I can't tell if its panic or not having the alcohol in my body?  This is really scary stuff.

[SHOTSY]

Hi there! I hope your hanging in there. From what I've found out here your possibly have some withdrawals. I believe the train  of thought is that Zanax leaves the body very quickly. And seems to cause the very symptoms it's used to treat when it leaves your body.Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong.About that alone thing. Sometimes I just want to be alone. Isn't it weird how we want things we don't have. Although beit on a temporary basis. You also  need to realize this is temporary. And you will make it thru. We'll be here to help.You've had a lot to deal with and now you have the perfect oppurtunity to take care of you. So snuggle down and do something you like for YOU.((((HUGS))))) SHotsy

[Witchywoman]

Hi LPB,
If you are taking 5mg of xanax a day, that is a pretty high dose. I'm thinking you probably mean you take .5 mg a day?
If you take it every day, when do you get the shaky feeling? Withdrawal from xanax does cause intense rebound anxiety, which is what you may be feeling.

I do believe you that you also have panic disorder. My heart goes out to you..that is a incredibly distressing and hard to live with.  Have you done any reading about how to handle panic disorder with cognitive therapy? There is a great book about it, called "Don't Panic" (I forget the author) that is full of helpful info on how to handle panic symptoms and prevent them, without medication.

And yes..I do understand that feeling of wanting to stop but also not wanting to stop.  It is a process, and just reaching out to us is a big step for you along the way to figuring out how you want to approach this.  12 step groups were never the right thing for me. I got clean due to the support of this forum, as well as individual therapy.

I hope you stay with us!
love,
WW

[Witchywoman]

Hello everyone,
I just had a hearing test, after weeks of non stop ringing in my ears, and I do have hearing loss. It is not huge, but it is significant, and the Doc can't find any cause for it. I gave him the article about opiate induced hearing loss, he had never heard of it but was going to look into it.

I'm pretty upset. Well, to be honest, I'm extremely upset. I feel overwhelmed in general by my life right now, and finding out that my past opiate abuse probably has permanently damaged my hearing is devastating. The hard part is not knowing if it is going to stay at this level, or progress.  The research I've read said it can begin to happen and progress even after a person stops the drug (which is what has happened to me..I never noticed hearing problems while I was using heavily).

I may need to be a bit scarce for a few days while I try to get some clarity and find my emotional center again.  If I don't post it doesn't mean I'm not here for y'all or that I don't care..I just may need some time to reflect, though I know I also need support badly..my tendency is to withdraw when I feel scared. AAARRRRGGGGGH  I hate being codependant!

Just also ...if you have any hearing symptoms...take them seriously and use this research on hearing loss as another tool in your arsenal of reasons to fight the Dragon.  Warm fuzzy feelings and numbing of emotional pain are not worth giving up the ability to hear beautiful music, the cry of a child, the "I love you" from your loved ones.

love,
WW

[kstuebin]

I said I wasn't going to post here but I can't overlook this.  LPB, do not stop taking benzos without consulting a doctor.  They are not like opiates and it is dangerous to go cold turkey.  You can suffer seizures and brain damage in a worse case scenario.  You have to wean yourself off of them and you need to talk to an addictions specialist to do that.  You can find one at any hospital or they can direct you.  I am a Xanax addict who detoxed by weaning and it was bad enough doing it that way. One pill a day is probably not enough to keep you out of severe withdrawl.  I can emphasize this enough.  If you want to email me, I'm ***@****.

[butterbean]

HI, I also am alone, divorced, and my children are grown, so I am totally alone.  I like it most of the time, and since I am not dating anyone right now, I am a little more lonely.  However, I think as I believe you said, these pills help to deal with the lonliness, depression, and emotions.  I know they worked wonders for me as I was always panickly, anxious and when I started taking Vicodin, I thought I could do anything.  I did too, I got a divorce after 21 years of marriage.  I am still not sure if it was partly the pills that helped to make me get out of the marriage.  Sometimes I regret it and want him back.  WE had our problems, but, he loved me and was good to me.  I do like living by myself though, and you can too.  For me, I have always felt like I have taken care of myself, since I had no parents who really cared for me much.  So as I took control and got divorced, I am going to take control and get clean of these pills, soon.  I  know I will, I just have to learn first whether I can get a small perscription just for the really severe pain and take something like Motrin for the everyday pain.  I am going to start there this month and see if I can do it.  If I can't, then I intend to stop taking vicodin completely and deal with the pain some other way.  After I came to this forum and met these wonderful people, Ihave felt I have so many friends helping me, keeping me strong, and being there for me when I really need a friend.  I am here for you too, so keep posting.  Yu will win this battle if you want to.  Let me know how you ar doing.
Love Butterbean

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

WW, my tinnitis is almost gone since I've been off of hydro and oxycodone for some time. Also, I've been very careful about my sugar and sodium intake as well during these last thirty days. Maybe it's something to consider? Sometimes it takes the "shotgun approach" to feel better, eh? Please excuse my Hoosier way of speaking! Anyway, take some time off and recuperate. We all need to do just that from time to time.

Butterbean, my friend, the very pills of which you speak have been both a boon and downfall in my life. How can something be so wonderful one moment turn into a nightmare the next? I suppose that is life for us. I just strive for some sort of equilibrium day to day. Barring withdrawals and normal misery, life is still a grand adventure. Believe it or not, we could be in much worse circumstances! Stick around long enough and you will see what I am talking about, Butterbean.

LPB, do what you will for now. The journey begins with the first step. You have taken that step and I can only hope that you will find what you are looking for. It is there, believe me, and you will find it someday. Just be patient and it will come. Without a doubt you will meet some people along the way....but remember, "princibles before personalities" is always the best guide in this life. I offer my best of wishes to you!

J.B.

[Frank Lee]

Hi LBP,

There is a lot of support out here for you and I am glad you found a place. You are playing with fire mixing benzos and ethanol and I am glad you realize it is a problem. Indeed, it's great that you found a therapist. I hope you are able to work out a plan. From personal experience and using many fundamental principles, ... I would offer the following. As noted above, please do not stop at once this could result in seizure. Additionally, stopping both ethanol and benzos is very difficult. Perhaps you and your therapist could work out a plan wherin you taper off one first and then the other. Finally, hope you know there are some people here who are very principled and caring. They will help.

Peace,

Frankie Lee

[kstuebin]

When I was child, I spake as a child.  I understood as child. I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face; now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope and charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. I Corithians, 11 - 13

[LPB]

thank you everyone.
i am really confused now.  you guys have been doing this discussion thing for a while and i am not totally familiar with the lingo.
i want to clarify i rechecked my bottle and it is 0.5mg, if i was taking 5mg i'd be comatose!  thank you witchywoman for pointing that out (and wish you the best with your hearing).  i have only taken 12 zanac,since Nov. 13th.  Can you become addicted and have withdrawls that fast?  i was taking valium sporadically for the past 3 months, not daily though.  if so, panic or no panic, i am going to suffer through not taking them.  maybe it is alcohol withdrawls?  this is so miserable to admit.  i didn't think i drank that much.  last night i only had a glass of wine.  very proud of myself.
Shotsy, thank you.  You are very kind and I appreciate your warmth.
KStuebin, I appreciate you taking the time to post.  For whatever reason you didn't want to, thank you.  I never knew anything about drugs before.  I had never taken anything really until the last year.  And to think, trying to get better.
Butterbean, thank you as well.  Dealing with lonliness is the hardest part i think.  driving home from work last night i had the worst panic attack yet.  i am glad i am in therapy i just wish i knew a way to make the panicky feelings subside.  driving is the worst.  you want to take something for the panic but don't want to take anything. ughhh.
Frankie Lee and J.B. thank you both for your adivce and support.  I will continue to post and thank all of you for your acceptance.
One day at a time.

[Witchywoman]

Hi again,
I'm not a Doctor, and not as familiar with pharmacology as some others might, but if you have been taking the xanax every day since Nov 13th, what you are feeling is probably rebound anxiety. I could be wrong, but I don't think if you have taken it once a day you'd build up enough of a constant blood level to have developed full blown physical dependancy.  Can anyone correct me on this if I"m wrong, please?
What you can build up that fast though, is tolerance, so that the same amount of the xanax no longer works as well.  That is how it starts..People need to take higher and higher amounts, and then start taking them more than once a day, and before you know it, you've got a dangerous physical addiction going.

If you've had alcohol in the amounts you describe, 1 to 3 glasses of wine a night I think you said, you won't have developed physical dependance on it, but you could definately have developed emotional and psychological dependance.

So, it sounds to me like you are probably not in physical withdrawal (again, someone please correct me if I'm wrong), but are having rebound anxiety along with your panic attacks.

Is your therapist also an MD who prescribes the meds for you? If not, get a referral to an MD Psychiatrist for a medication evaluation. There are good meds out there that treat panic disorder without creating physical addiction. Also, when you have panic disorder, you have to work to retrain your nervous system to respond less intensely to anxiety.  This is where the nuts and bolts of therapy come in. Deep breathing, imagery work, retraining your internal dialogue, all are part of it. Combined with medication, this kind of therapy can help panic disorder well.  I am a therapist, and have worked many times with folks who have panic disorder and anxiety disorders.  The Benzo meds, like valium and xanax, are good for short term management of the disorder, but they do nothing to treat the underlying cause.  The underlying cause needs to be treated within the brain's neurotransmitter system, as well as the psychological system.  It also sounds like you are going through a lot of loss, given your divorce and loneliness, so my heart goes out to you. I really hope you can find a good support system and rebuild your life into one in which you can flourish!

love,
WW

[kstuebin]

Xanax is very addictive and there have been cases of physical dependency with low doses in as short as a time as two weeks. I did a lot of research on this topic. I would imagine withdrawl symptoms would be less severe but I don't know that for a fact. Since I quit Xanax, via Valium weaning, I am having horrible axiety. Some days I just cry and cry, because I feel so awful.  The withdrawl was different.  I would describe it as anxiety with a twilight zone component.

LPB, long old story re my not posting.  Obviously, I'm posting again.  I'm so happy to have a fellow benzo abuser to talk to..there aren't many of us on here...probably too zoned out to boot up the PC :)  I was also prescribed Xanax for anxiety and have abused alcohol in the past so I think JB is right and they do go hand in hand.

[Francoise]

I don't have much time, so I'm gonna be to the point.

You MUST stop drinking and taking benzos like Xanax.

Get off the Xanax and the other "-pam" and get on Klonopin. It's a "pam" as well, but has a half-life far, far longer than that damned Xanax. And it's a hell of a lot easier to get off of.

CAUTION: You just can't stop taking a benzo, especially Xanax. It can and will cause deadly seizures if you just stop taking it cold turkey. You've got to taper ANY benzo. Tapering too fast off these very effective anti-anxiety drugs cause, get this, intense anxiety. But you can taper down to about a quarter millimeter of Klonipin and then switch to Valium (another benzo, a -pam as well) and then taper off that. You've got to be careful with this.

What you are doing to yourself with the mixture of drugs and alcohol that you're taking now is deadly.

Come back soon? Tell us how you're doing and what the shrink had to say?

Francois

[LPB]

Hey guys
Thanks
I had an appt. with a psychiatrist this weekend regarding the meds.  He diagnosed me with severe panic disorder.  Surprise huh?  Anyway, he changed me from the Prozac, which I stopped anyway, to Celexa.  We are starting slow and building up my tolerance.  He also said to continue with the Zanax, but ween off onto Klonopin.  Hopefully we are on the right track.  I also slowed down the drinking.  I think I was doing it for the anxiety.  It's still there, all the time, but I am hopefully on the right track.  It's amazing how posting and seeing someone can take the load off.
To hear others that can really relate is wonderful.
KStuebin, I understand the anxiety completely.  I am going to today to get a book/audio on breathing techniqes.  The dr. said it would really help.  Am also looking into yoga.  The gym is a lifesaver for me.  Have you tried either?  Try and not be alone too much.  That is what (I have found) the anxiety makes me want to do.  But in the end it's just you alone with the anxiety and that turns to depression.  Good luck.
Thanks WW and Francoise.  I appreciate the advice and support once again.
LPB

[Leigh]

I know the feeling of loneliness. I ended a long-term relationship last winter. My boyfriend was a control freak, and I basically gave up my friends and hobbies to be with him. So naturally, when I finally got the courage to end the relationship, I was left with no friends or life of my own.

Being a hydrocodone addict, I decided to spend every night numbing the pain. And I agree--it's an awful feeling to know that I'm filling a void by abusing a substance. I'm afraid to truly feel that loneliness, and face myself and the mistakes I've made--so I either take a few pills, drink a few beers...or both. Not a good combo, I know. Sometimes I think I'm on a slow path of destruction...and all this, just to avoid loneliness and facing myself.

Someone wrote about driving in a car and feeling anxiety / loneliness. For me, it's being home alone that makes me feel anxious. Not only do I feel lonely and scared, but I also have a tendency to sit on my couch in a narcotic haze, as I posted several months ago. So to avoid all this, I actually leave work at dinnertime, get take-out food, and drive around for hours. I don't want to go home, because I know I'll crack open a beer or stare at the TV for hours to avoid feeling anything. So instead, I've literally put thousands of miles on my new car, just driving around at night. Thank god the price of gas has gone down, or I wouldn't be able to support this new habit.

I think you've taken some huge steps and made tremendous progress, just in the period of time since your first post. You've admitted that you might have a problem and you've asked for help. That's huge. Most people get stuck in denial for years and years (like me).

Someday I'll have the courage to join you. Until then, you're in my thoughts...Good luck, and welcome.

Leigh

[LPB]

Hi Leigh,
Wow. I am so sorry.  Home is my safe haven.  I can understand the "tv gaze".  Been there often.  I can also relate to loosing everything for someone.  I have moved cross-country twice for someone.  STUPID!  I am finally realizing that only Me can make ME happy.  In one week I feel I have made a lot of progress.  Being alone this weekend and learning to "fill the time" is hard.  Scheduling is everything.
I get anxious just thinking about doing new things by myself but want to try.  I am starting back at the gym.  At least I am off the couch and am tired when I get home.  Does that interest you at all?  You're car would thank you for it! You also are out of the house.  Just a thought.  You meet new people as well.  I don't know.
Please take care.  I am always a chat away.
LPB

[butterbean]

Leigh you sound so much like me, except younger.  After 21 years of marriage, I think the hydrocodone helped me believe I could do anything and I left. I was a different person, a happy person, for a while.  that's what the drug does at first, then yu get depressed when you start taking too much for the pain.  I am still going to take once in a while as I have chronic pain.  LPB, I also just joined the gym today.  I was a fanatic up until 3 years ago, getting divorced and going back to school full-time and working full=time too all my time.  I have come home and laid in that drug induced stoop so many times.  Made me feel on ttop of the world, no pain, no emotional pain.  I do want someone else in my life, but, I am afraid of what I will find.  I sometimes wished I had stayed with my husband, but, I know that was the right thing to do.  I am isolated at work and home so now the gym will help and my muscles will bring back my self-esteem and even help my back , I hope.  Leigh, hang in there.  Try to see what's around you and if yu can slowly let the drugs go.  If you want it you will do it when you are ready.  Take care my friend. Also, I am a therapist and I can listen real well.
Love Butterbean

[Witchywoman]

Hi Butterbean!
God..your story sounds so much like mine, except I didn't leave my husband. I came close, but decided to stay and I don't regret it.

Good for you for joining a gym.  I joined one a month and a half ago, and I swear, it helps my back pain a lot.  I use the elyptical machine, and it really helps.  I've also been doing strength training. I've always been really athletic, because I've been a dancer for 12 years, so it hasn't been too hard to get back to it after a forced 6 months off (due to the surgery).

What is making me worry is that I"m not sure I'll be able to do middle eastern dance anymore, and it is my favorite creative outlet. I tried to do a bit this weekend and paid a high pain price for it. My Doc says it may still be too early.  This may seem like a small issue, but to me it is really huge...dance is what has given me sanity and brought me more joy than I can say. Giving it up, if I have to, will be hard.

We're in the same line of work too! I bet you completely understand the feeling of giving and giving all day long, and then wanting to just come home and shut the world out with pain pills, huh? I did that for a few years....it is good to have my life back, but it is still a day by day choice for me.

take care Butterbean..thanks for being there.
love,
WW

[butterbean]

It is good to hear from you WW.  As I said I think I did the right thing by leaving, but, I can't look back now. I understand completely about your dancing.   My daughter danced from the time she was 2 until 18 andthen decided not to go professional.  I am still proud of her though, and she is a hard worker.  I used to go to the gym and work out religiously until I started working full-time on my master's.  Then with working full-time and school full-time, I had no time left. I joined the gym for my body, mind and to get out of the house. I am isolated except for my children.  I have a fear of dating!  I guess because of the  pain I have been through.  But, I am clean now from vicodin again.  I still think I may have to get a small perscription, but, I want to see how I can deal with this pain without the narcotic.  I hurt so bad yesterday and didn't take anything but motrin.  I put a heating pad on when I laid down, and took two hot baths.  I feel good this morning, like I have a lot to live for! Some days when I took the meds I would just keep taking them and ly and bed and sleep, as if that was what I wanted.  What was I hiding from?  MY loniness, my self, my fear I think!!
Take care WW and keep posting.  You sound great and my fingers are crossed for you to keep dancing.  I wish I could dance.  Always wanted to.
Love Butterbean

[Leigh]

Butterbean, what you said about leaving your husband really hit home for me. I left my long-term boyfriend, and sometimes I wonder if I did the right thing. He was controlling and argumentative and afraid of marriage, but at least he loved me. Sometimes I wonder if I left him because I felt that false sense of Vicodin-induced security. But then I remember the arguments and the hell I went through, and I feel confident that I did the right thing. I just wish it wasn't so hard being alone.

I also have trouble dating. After working all day, I don't have the energy to engage in conversations. And I also can't stand the prospective men that await me. It seems like 99 percent of the dating scene consists of complete freaks. I recently met someone who I really like, but being insecure, I find myself questioning our relationship every five minutes. I wish I could just be thankful and enjoy things.

I would love to join a gym, but after moving out and living on my own now, I can't seem to find the cash. I agree that working out would be a wonderful way to beat my addiction--and meet people, but I can't seem to make that first step.

Just too many thoughts, ya know? Did I make the right decision--and if yes, why am I so lonely now? Am I lonely because of my addiction? And why am I so afraid to face myself and my loneliness? I always thought I was a strong person, but lately I've been feeling like a real coward. Instead of facing these questions head on, I just keep numbing myself and hoping that it will all magically disappear.

I know I should probably go to a 12-step meeting, instead of sitting on my couch or driving around in my car. But I've been to meetings before, and I feel like the whole thing is so contrived. But if I could walk into a meeting and have the room filled with everyone from this forum...wow. I'd be there in a heartbeat.

Leigh

[Witchywoman]

Sounds like we all have similar stories!  At least we are not totally alone!

Well, while I don't have a perfect relationship with my husband, we do have a lot of problems, I'm glad I am there because in the end I have to admit a lot of the problems we have stem from my addiction, and the fact that for almost 5 years, I was basically emotionally gone from the marriage, shutting him out and going for the vics every night. I confessed the whole thing to him and have his support in staying clean now, but I did almost blow it.  He is not perfect either, but for me, so far, staying was the right choice.   He kept telling me over and over for years that he missed me, he wasn't sure what was wrong, but he felt lonely even though I was right there by his side.  

Now another issue we face is...how to deal with sex and chronic back pain.  Now that is problem!!! ugh.

love,
WW