Boy, I feel like crap

[Virginia Paramedic]

I have had a prior addiction problem to everything from Vicodin to Diladid. I got off the stuff, but due to problems from gastric by-pass sx, I have uncontrolable diarreha. I now have to take Paregoric, which has Morphine in it. ( I have tried EVERY OTC and Rx out there besides Paregoric. )

I feel myself 'slipping' back into 'liking' narc's. But I have to have it so I don't have an accident on the job or at home.

Any Ideas?

[percsnomas]

There was an interview on PBS with Dr. Steve Hyman(Addiction Doc.), and the following question was posed to him:

Bill Moyers: "" If addiction is about learning, why doesn't the addict learn that withdrawal in certain cases is so painful, so abominable, so awful that the brain says, ' I don't want to go through that again, so i won't use.'""

Dr. Hyman:  "" One of the really striking things about human beings is that we have a lot of trouble thinking about long term risk. We are very short term creatures indeed.  Also, you see, withdrawal is very painful, but it's actually not associated with the drug.  What's associated with the drug is pleasure and relief.  The withdrawal syndrome is occurring in isolation and without the drug.  Indeed, it is accompanied by intense craving for the drug.  So the withdrawal DOES NOT IN ANY WAY EXTINGUISH OR DO AWAY WITH THE IMPULSE, THE CRAVING, THE DESIRE FOR DRUGS.  One of the important challenges to us as a species, is how we can figure out ways of dealing with our inability to conform our behavior to our long-term best interest.""


The transcript for that interview is a most interesting read.


percs

[Chezz2]

Nice to see you posting again.

I am sorry to say Expillman, but withdrawals are about the least deterent for an addict to stop. Otherwise, guess what?, we wouldn't have addicts here who have been posting for over a year continue to go through the cycle of withdrawals, getting meds, withdrawals, getting meds, ect. ect. ect.
So you can throw your idea of withdrawals being the almighty deterent of stopping...
It doesn't work that way, and hasn't...
And you speaking of working in pain management(of all people) should know that.

Kudos to Hippee, whom said it all in one post.

Most people spent the time to get to know the people that have been here for quite a while before spouting off medical literature which means nothing in the end when it doesn't have **** to do with what most of us have been through.

Chezz

[Thomas050]

Thomas030
Hi, yes, true I am not speaking from experience when I asked if the w/d one went thru would be a deterrent. But if you struggled thru it and got past the worst of it (the physical) then I would imagine thinking about having to go thru that again would be somewhat of a deterrent. It's a logical assumption, but yea I know logic doesn't necessarily rule in cases of addiction.
I have been taking pain meds for almost 6 mos, and yea, there is a couple days between where I do notice the w/ds. Many report of not being able to sleep. I never really thought that sounded so bad, until I found out *why* it is you can't sleep. I would imagine when i decide to stop if I get past the physical w/d that I will not want to go thu it again, and that it will be a deterrent, but yea, it remains to be seen.
Regards,
T050

[Thomas03]

You and Nancy sure know how to butter my toast!

Thomas

[Rodster]

This is something i know a little about, I have suffered with diarreha for years, I can honestly say that the only two drugs that ever controlled it were when i was a full blown addict and taking lortab, and Immodium AD, when i detoxed in september my bowels went friecking nuts, but the immodium helped alot, it will take awhile once you come off any opiate for your system to stabilize (in your case stabilize will mean just normal diarreha not all the time) give the Immodium a chance, if that dont work ask your doc for alternatives to opiates to help controll it.

[theGolden1]

Dear Exman ... you are very brave to cut off the Oxy's just like that. I just wanted to say that the depression is different for everyone. It's got to take a month to feel decent (mentally) but I wouldn't project. You may not feel like doing a dance everyday and maybe a little tired .... but just knowing it's a drug reaction makes it so much easier. It will pass ... and you will feel better and better. I have the same goal ... I want to be chemical free. You are ahead of me .... good luck and God Bless, Goldie

[lisabet]

Hello, my sweet Nancy - I've been on your forum reading the posts, but seems like when I'm on no one else is (in chat).  Sorry I haven't posted for awhile, but I check in on everyone a lot.  I read about your latest ordeal with the Chrohn's..god, you're a brave soul. I honestly don't know if I could withstand that kind of pain.  You're such an inspiration, in that you still seem to keep your sense of humor in spite of all your pain, and are always right there to help others. RESPECT, lady - you definitely have mine. As for Thomas, we'll let him THINK he can handle the both of us....smile...and yeah, we better drop the handcuff idea; no doubt that would be right up his alley....heh-heh. (It's a good thing he's a "lovable" pervert, which is why us ladies are always falling all over him)....smile.  Hope to talk to you soon.  Take care, Love you Bunches, Lisabet

[MrsRat]

LOL, you think Thomas can handle the two of us without blowing a gasket?  Well, I do have those 4 pairs of cuffs if you think we'll need them, then again, he might enjoy that. :)

Haven't crossed paths with you for awhile.  I've missed you sweet lady.  Drop me a line when you get some free time and we'll get caught up!

[lisabet]

Hey darling boy. First of all I want you to know you're a class act.  Secondly, your sense of humor and compassion was literally all that kept me holding on during some really difficult times. Thirdly (and most important)...when you're finished going through Mrs. Rat's drawer(s), you're more than welcome to come check mine out!!!  (heh-heh)...you knew I wouldn't be able to resist that one.  :)  Hope you're doing well. I've had some pretty intense cravings the past few days, but still keeping the usage fairly consistent.  Enjoy the rest of your weekend. Love ya/mean it!!! Lisabet  :)

[oxic]

Hey Thomas,

The offer still stands for my MILs' drawers........i'll do one better; i'll send you her, the cabinet, the drawers, and all the Rx bottles i can find(empty of course).

Hope your doing well down there!!!

[Thomas03]

Since the bottles are empty, least you can do is let me in those "drawers."

Thomas

[MrsRat]

Thomas, I have a drawer you can come look in if you want. (That is drawer dear, not drawers!)  Of course all the bottles I will leave it in will be empty, just for you.  LOL.

[oxic]

I was very happy to read that it will be 6 months for you Sturgil!!!!!  Awesome job friend.

I have to echo your comments about Thomas........ he also helped me tremendously, especially early on in my recovery when i was "white-knuckling" it; specifically with his knowledge and sense of humour.

It'll be 10 months for me on the 19th.

Continued strength to you!


percs

[Sturgil]

Thomas - You are a gentleman. You gave me strong advice in my early recovery and for this I thank you. It is only because of you and others here that this board works. Monday will be 6 months for me free from Opiates.

Experience

Strength

And Hope.

Thank you!


Sturgil Flockin

[Expillman]

Peace to you, too.  I apologize if I offended you, but I really thought that you were mocking me.  This is too serious for petty bickering.

EXPillman

[Thomas03]

Jedi, your anger has made you powerful!

I think we're talking two different sports here. As someone recovering from a 30-year opiate addiction, I know that the pain of withdrawal quickly fades from an addict's mind. That is perhaps one reason the average drug addict relapses many, many times. 'Would that it weren't true.

I'm very sorry to hear about your wife. The month of May will never be the same for you. You are very strong to be taking on your Oxy dependence at such a time.

And do stick around. We could use an authority on pain management. Many on this forum trace their dependence and/or addiction to pain issues.

Not that you apparently need to hear this, but don't take me too seriously. My humor, undetectable as it might be to you, is my way of staying out of the pharmacy.

Peace

Thomas

[Expillman]

Well, since you seem to be his front man, I'll explain it to you.  His message about the empty drawer struck me as the message of a "troll", a sneer, an aire of flippancy that after what I have been through this past week, didn't set too well.

You seem to have missed his ad hominems aimed at me, but I can take care of myself.

Thanks for your concern.

EXPillman

[motox4fun01]

Sir,
You are really making yourself look bad here by trash talking Thomas.
The guy is admired by most who come here so knock it off and try to get along even if it hurts your EGO.
James

[Expillman]

Thomas, who is suffering the awful consequences of a lifetime of eating Spam out of leaded containers uttered this profundity:

"withdrawal is not a deterrent to relapse."

The HELL it isn't.  You are dismissed with a wave of my hand.

EXPillman

[Thomas03]

No, Thomas, withdrawal is not a deterrent to relapse. I know from reading your posts that you are under the dragon's spell as well as your girlfriend. Have you never experienced withdrawal between Vicodin scrips? If so, did it stop you from cashing your next refill? If withdrawal were a deterrent, there'd scarcely be an opiate addiction problem.

Thomas

[AmberHunter]

just poked my head in here for a minute. saw someone was asking about the "zaps" coming of the patch.

i am not aware of zaps being part of duragesic w/d but i am aware of them coming off of SSRI's. that is one of the worst of the prozac/paxil/zoloft withdrawl symptoms...

that's about it for me!

peace,

amber

[mrmichael67]

And yes, she could be chugging the stuff for all we know.  Well, I would bet the farm the doses aren't therapeutic.

[mrmichael67]

I just wanted to comment on one thing.  Even though you were doing it correctly, many doctors that have been practicing medicine for decades, have been undermedicating their patients for pain right along.  Being a pain patient, I have been the recipient many times.  It can be very frustrating, to say the least.  I love it when they say, "But, I gave you morphine."  Even though is was a miniscule amount.  I guess just the fact that it is morphine is sufficient.  Or, a patient is writhing on the bed and the nurse goes, "He's had 10mg of morphine!"  Well, obviously it isn't enough.  They are so worried about over doing it.  Yet, pain antagonizes respiratory depression.  And, they can simply titrate to effect.  Things have gotten better, seeing as how they use pain as a vital sign now.  But, there is still a lot of room for improvement.  Oh, I am sorry for assuming the morphine was oral.

[mrmichael67]

Fair enough.  I assumed since you were commenting on taking the paregoric orally, well...  Hey, we're all human.