Aa
Day 1 off vicodin
Hi. I am 34 yrs old and was diagnosed with SLE (Lupus) a very painful auto-immune disease for which there is no cure. I have been taking anywhere from 2-10 pills a day depending on the pain and sometimes took some ultram with that..
I decided yesterday that I wanted to go off of vicodin because of how they make me feel and look. I have HUGE dark circles under my eyes and my eyes are not clear and white like they used to be...now they are kinda yellow and hazy.
So...today was day 1. I felt ok until about 1pm...the last vicodins were taken about 6pm yesterday. The first sign was the runny nose and then the agigtation set in. I got really scared, I have never been addicted to anything, other than diet coke, in my life. I called my uncle b/c he did drugs when he was younger and he told me it sounds like you are going through w/d. His wife is a nurse and suggested that I take a vicodin..she said it is very hard on the body to detox cold turkey .but that didn't even touch the symptoms. Is this normal?
I have taken it since my diagnosis in March..maybe February. Is it true that the longer you are on it and the more you take, the harder the w/d symptoms? Has anyone tapered off? I think I can do it this way...I have bottles of the stuff around...so I obviously want to stop....I am not sure how to taper off? I would think that you would do a few a day for a week or so and than drop a pill...do that for another week or so and then go from there. I am totally clueless and could really use someone's wisdom who has gone through it and made it. Thank you so much!!
I decided yesterday that I wanted to go off of vicodin because of how they make me feel and look. I have HUGE dark circles under my eyes and my eyes are not clear and white like they used to be...now they are kinda yellow and hazy.
So...today was day 1. I felt ok until about 1pm...the last vicodins were taken about 6pm yesterday. The first sign was the runny nose and then the agigtation set in. I got really scared, I have never been addicted to anything, other than diet coke, in my life. I called my uncle b/c he did drugs when he was younger and he told me it sounds like you are going through w/d. His wife is a nurse and suggested that I take a vicodin..she said it is very hard on the body to detox cold turkey .but that didn't even touch the symptoms. Is this normal?
I have taken it since my diagnosis in March..maybe February. Is it true that the longer you are on it and the more you take, the harder the w/d symptoms? Has anyone tapered off? I think I can do it this way...I have bottles of the stuff around...so I obviously want to stop....I am not sure how to taper off? I would think that you would do a few a day for a week or so and than drop a pill...do that for another week or so and then go from there. I am totally clueless and could really use someone's wisdom who has gone through it and made it. Thank you so much!!
you need to talk w/your rheumy.
what is your long term plan to deal with pain? imo, that will tour bigger question. from what you wrote it sounds like vic was part of your pain mgmnt.... then you began to abuse.
if your pain is chronic - and i assume it is - WHAT IS YOUR PLAN?
its noble that you realize you are now abusing (taking to get high) but what are your alternatives? my rheumy says i have something akin to AS and if pain isnt managed at this level with nsaids and low dose vic then the next step up is biologics. i much prefer vics over costly infusions/injections.
i have gone off vics knowing (and fearing ) i was dependent (@ only 2 per day )--- but then i had to deal with the pain.. and when it rains the aches & pains & stiffness increases.... then what?
i had surgery on monday and only took 2 on monday and 1 1/4 yesterday. only 1/2 so far today. my fortitude should be applauded but on this forum im sound like a guy bragging about drinking only 2 beers at an AA meeting :)
what is your long term plan to deal with pain? imo, that will tour bigger question. from what you wrote it sounds like vic was part of your pain mgmnt.... then you began to abuse.
if your pain is chronic - and i assume it is - WHAT IS YOUR PLAN?
its noble that you realize you are now abusing (taking to get high) but what are your alternatives? my rheumy says i have something akin to AS and if pain isnt managed at this level with nsaids and low dose vic then the next step up is biologics. i much prefer vics over costly infusions/injections.
i have gone off vics knowing (and fearing ) i was dependent (@ only 2 per day )--- but then i had to deal with the pain.. and when it rains the aches & pains & stiffness increases.... then what?
i had surgery on monday and only took 2 on monday and 1 1/4 yesterday. only 1/2 so far today. my fortitude should be applauded but on this forum im sound like a guy bragging about drinking only 2 beers at an AA meeting :)
Thank you everyone for the QUICK responses. First....I have never snorted my pills...didn't even know you could and I only started upping the dose to get the "high" about 2 mos ago, that's when i knew i had a problem but before that i took exactly as directed...and in the beginning...less thean prescribed.
Well...I guess since I only took 2 today...does that mean I should do 2 again tomorrow and for a while and then drop down to 1. It doesn't really make sense to me to go back up to 5-6 seeing as I was able to tolerate most of the w/d's today. Of course, tomorrow could be a totally different story. I meet with my oncologist...I also am a cancer survivor since 2004 tomorrow and I am going to pick his brain and then I meet with my Rheumatologist the next day.....I am GOING to stop. I am just trying to figure out which is best....going c/d or tapering down. I have my own business and 2 very active teenagers and a husband that I take care of...so whatever is easiest is what I want to do. But if tapering doesn't work for me then I WILL go cold turkey. I am sick of feeling this way!!!!! Not to mention,,,I am a Christian...which brings a whole other spiritual realm to this. I feel like I was tricked into being dependant...I am in constant pain so what else is there to do???? I am soooooo frustrated.
Well...I guess since I only took 2 today...does that mean I should do 2 again tomorrow and for a while and then drop down to 1. It doesn't really make sense to me to go back up to 5-6 seeing as I was able to tolerate most of the w/d's today. Of course, tomorrow could be a totally different story. I meet with my oncologist...I also am a cancer survivor since 2004 tomorrow and I am going to pick his brain and then I meet with my Rheumatologist the next day.....I am GOING to stop. I am just trying to figure out which is best....going c/d or tapering down. I have my own business and 2 very active teenagers and a husband that I take care of...so whatever is easiest is what I want to do. But if tapering doesn't work for me then I WILL go cold turkey. I am sick of feeling this way!!!!! Not to mention,,,I am a Christian...which brings a whole other spiritual realm to this. I feel like I was tricked into being dependant...I am in constant pain so what else is there to do???? I am soooooo frustrated.
I have never heard that stuff before. Thank you so much for posting all of that. It was so helpful to me.
Join us in me and joe and you till christmas forum. We're tapering together, and today was our first day!
Here is some info on tapering.. I would also talk to your doctor. I assume since you have Lupus you see a Rheumatologist. You need to discuss with him/her what you are gonna do for pain after you get off the pills.
Time for some technical talk... One of the things which increases "dependence" is a spike in drug blood plasma levels. Addicts do this on purpose to get a "high". They do it by Snorting (Very fast delivery), IV Injections, Chewing up meds and taking on an empty stomach.
The above all produce the most amount of drug in the blood in an attempt to get a buzz. These spikes are one of the reasons we addicts get hooked faster than a COMPLIANT Chronic Pain Patient.
Being compliant means they take only as directed. The goal of compliance is to maintain an even blood plasma at the minimum amount to treat PAIN and NOT to produce euphoria (a high).
Since the blood plasma levels are lower, the levels of dopamine at the synaptic cleft do not spike so the receptor sites do not downregulate or decrease in number in response to the initially MUCH higher level of dopamine released as a result of spiking.
Addictive dosing behaviors, the large doses associated to Spike the blood plasma level, vs the lower low dosing and more often which is the KEY factor to the physical changes the brain makes which cause dependency.
Dependency is the actual physical changes to your body which cause withdrawal. Addiction is the BEHAVIOR of taking the drugs to get high, not as prescribed, and when not needed for clinical reasons. It is the un-manageable behaviors associated with lack of control.
Which comes first... Dependence or addiction? Usually it's addiction, but it can be the other way, but the key issue which causes the progression of addiction are the behaviors.
Addiction is what makes you take more and more, spiking doses, etc. This in turn increases dependence. The higher your dependence the higher the tollerance... Round and round you go. The addiction merry-go-round.
How to break the cycle? The only way is to change the behavior. That is a very difficult thing. Pain is usually a very good motivator. So is Euphoria. When the pain out weighs the euphoria one starts to consider breaking the cycle. Unfortunately the pain being eliminated by the drug is a driving force. Then the addict associated the RELIEF of th pain to the drug instead of the drug being the CAUSE of the pain.
SOoooooooo what to do? Break the cycle.
Many have to hit bottom to do that. That's the point where the pain of using overwhelms the relief of using. It's an emotional point which is different for different people. Not every one has to hit a bottom to quit. The sooner you quit the less pain and suffering you have to experience.
For folks who are on smaller doses and their disease has not progressed very far, they have not felt the extent of pain addiction can cause. Only conceptualizing how bad it can get may not be good enough to motivate a person early in addiction to quit.
Intellectually we know what lays ahead. We hear the truth from others, but yet we continue to use. It is not until we get a glimpse of the pain that lays ahead do we become to believe we need to quit. One HAS to believe that in fact addiction does lead to the loss of everything and eventually Jails Institutions and Death.
Addiction is a lot easier to nip in the bud physically but maybe not emotionally because one has not experienced the pain first hand. Some need more pain than others to quit. Some don't make it and end up end stage and their addiction wins.
If you want to get off of the pills you have to change your behavior.
1) STOP SNORTING your pills!
2) Stop spiking your dose!
3) stop taking enough to get high
You will never quit until you do that. Weather you can or not is up to you.
You have to come to a point where you make the decision you want to quit. The en you have to make a plan then you have to execute that plan. SIMPLE .... but not easy.
The solution from a clinical point of view for you at your point of addiction is so easy. A simple taper, and change the behavior. In short break the cycle.
How to do a taper is easy. Changing the behavior is the HARD part, but you have to want to change.
If you are taking 6 pills a day... then start taking them in even doses and don't take like 3-4 at a time. 24 hrs divided by 6 = 4 hrs. So only take one pill every 4 hrs. Then take 5 pills in 24 hrs. That's 4.8 hrs. Then 4 pills a day... break pills into 1/2's so you have 8 1/2 pills. and take 1/2 a pill every 3 hrs. Etc.
If you can't stick to a taper give the pills to a friend to dispense.
Mean while .. you have to start changing the way you think and the things you do... You should educate yourself... Good place to do all of that is NA or AA. It's FREE and takes up time. It forces you to be doing something other than sitting around with nothing to do and just thinking about using.
It's not the only way, but it's a good place to start. Take what you need from it, and leave the rest.
If you take the same amount or less every day and don't spike your dose you will eventually quit.
30 mg of Hydro can be tapered to 0 in 2-4 weeks painlessly. The PAWS will be minimal too.
Missy... The ball is in your court. We can not make you do anything. Only YOU can.
When you are ready is up to you. If you need to stay "out there" using and see for yourself how bad it will get that's up to you.
My recommendation.. Start to QUIT now! It will be a whole lot easier.
Time for some technical talk... One of the things which increases "dependence" is a spike in drug blood plasma levels. Addicts do this on purpose to get a "high". They do it by Snorting (Very fast delivery), IV Injections, Chewing up meds and taking on an empty stomach.
The above all produce the most amount of drug in the blood in an attempt to get a buzz. These spikes are one of the reasons we addicts get hooked faster than a COMPLIANT Chronic Pain Patient.
Being compliant means they take only as directed. The goal of compliance is to maintain an even blood plasma at the minimum amount to treat PAIN and NOT to produce euphoria (a high).
Since the blood plasma levels are lower, the levels of dopamine at the synaptic cleft do not spike so the receptor sites do not downregulate or decrease in number in response to the initially MUCH higher level of dopamine released as a result of spiking.
Addictive dosing behaviors, the large doses associated to Spike the blood plasma level, vs the lower low dosing and more often which is the KEY factor to the physical changes the brain makes which cause dependency.
Dependency is the actual physical changes to your body which cause withdrawal. Addiction is the BEHAVIOR of taking the drugs to get high, not as prescribed, and when not needed for clinical reasons. It is the un-manageable behaviors associated with lack of control.
Which comes first... Dependence or addiction? Usually it's addiction, but it can be the other way, but the key issue which causes the progression of addiction are the behaviors.
Addiction is what makes you take more and more, spiking doses, etc. This in turn increases dependence. The higher your dependence the higher the tollerance... Round and round you go. The addiction merry-go-round.
How to break the cycle? The only way is to change the behavior. That is a very difficult thing. Pain is usually a very good motivator. So is Euphoria. When the pain out weighs the euphoria one starts to consider breaking the cycle. Unfortunately the pain being eliminated by the drug is a driving force. Then the addict associated the RELIEF of th pain to the drug instead of the drug being the CAUSE of the pain.
SOoooooooo what to do? Break the cycle.
Many have to hit bottom to do that. That's the point where the pain of using overwhelms the relief of using. It's an emotional point which is different for different people. Not every one has to hit a bottom to quit. The sooner you quit the less pain and suffering you have to experience.
For folks who are on smaller doses and their disease has not progressed very far, they have not felt the extent of pain addiction can cause. Only conceptualizing how bad it can get may not be good enough to motivate a person early in addiction to quit.
Intellectually we know what lays ahead. We hear the truth from others, but yet we continue to use. It is not until we get a glimpse of the pain that lays ahead do we become to believe we need to quit. One HAS to believe that in fact addiction does lead to the loss of everything and eventually Jails Institutions and Death.
Addiction is a lot easier to nip in the bud physically but maybe not emotionally because one has not experienced the pain first hand. Some need more pain than others to quit. Some don't make it and end up end stage and their addiction wins.
If you want to get off of the pills you have to change your behavior.
1) STOP SNORTING your pills!
2) Stop spiking your dose!
3) stop taking enough to get high
You will never quit until you do that. Weather you can or not is up to you.
You have to come to a point where you make the decision you want to quit. The en you have to make a plan then you have to execute that plan. SIMPLE .... but not easy.
The solution from a clinical point of view for you at your point of addiction is so easy. A simple taper, and change the behavior. In short break the cycle.
How to do a taper is easy. Changing the behavior is the HARD part, but you have to want to change.
If you are taking 6 pills a day... then start taking them in even doses and don't take like 3-4 at a time. 24 hrs divided by 6 = 4 hrs. So only take one pill every 4 hrs. Then take 5 pills in 24 hrs. That's 4.8 hrs. Then 4 pills a day... break pills into 1/2's so you have 8 1/2 pills. and take 1/2 a pill every 3 hrs. Etc.
If you can't stick to a taper give the pills to a friend to dispense.
Mean while .. you have to start changing the way you think and the things you do... You should educate yourself... Good place to do all of that is NA or AA. It's FREE and takes up time. It forces you to be doing something other than sitting around with nothing to do and just thinking about using.
It's not the only way, but it's a good place to start. Take what you need from it, and leave the rest.
If you take the same amount or less every day and don't spike your dose you will eventually quit.
30 mg of Hydro can be tapered to 0 in 2-4 weeks painlessly. The PAWS will be minimal too.
Missy... The ball is in your court. We can not make you do anything. Only YOU can.
When you are ready is up to you. If you need to stay "out there" using and see for yourself how bad it will get that's up to you.
My recommendation.. Start to QUIT now! It will be a whole lot easier.
welcome--
first yes it is true the longer you have been on, and how much you take does make a difference..
But taking between 2 and 10 a day is a big difference...U said you have been on them only since mar...That is good..
With you having lupus, i would really get my doctor involved in this..u need to be honest and since i am not sure about your illness i don't think you should listen to anyone but your doctor..
I can tell you that w/d are not pleasent...But with also an auto-immune disease, i think you may need extra help from your doctor because not sure what w/d could interfer with that..
read alot on here...Runny nose is normal, depression, aggigtation, direahea s/p..
But your doc can put you on a nice taper and some other things you might need.
I wish you all the luck, and keep us posted
r2r
first yes it is true the longer you have been on, and how much you take does make a difference..
But taking between 2 and 10 a day is a big difference...U said you have been on them only since mar...That is good..
With you having lupus, i would really get my doctor involved in this..u need to be honest and since i am not sure about your illness i don't think you should listen to anyone but your doctor..
I can tell you that w/d are not pleasent...But with also an auto-immune disease, i think you may need extra help from your doctor because not sure what w/d could interfer with that..
read alot on here...Runny nose is normal, depression, aggigtation, direahea s/p..
But your doc can put you on a nice taper and some other things you might need.
I wish you all the luck, and keep us posted
r2r
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