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Complcations Of Vicodin Es
my question is can you develope other health problems as a result of taking Vicodin es for a long period of time like heart failure, constapation, etc..I would like to learn all that I can about this medicine since I have been taking it for a long period of time. I don't want to sound like I'm panicing or bug anyone and I do appreicate all the time and effort you all put into this website and anwsering my questions. I'm wanting to just deal with the pain and stop taking it but at times it can be unbearing pain,Just about all of my teeth are decayed into the gums. I have read that some people take them for the high but it is the funny feeling that makes me panic some times but then I would rather deal with that feeling than be in that kind of pain, but when I take it I'm constantly checking my pulse and heartbeat until the feeling wears off. Is their anyone that has or had panic attacks?? See I use to be scared to take anything [any medicine]for about the last five years because when I went threw the starting of my panic attacks I was put in the hospital, that is how bad they got but then my husband got real sick about a year and half ago and I have to focus on him and taking care of our four children, he is not expected to live another year without a Liver Transplant or that is what the doctor's say anyway,and I have faith that god will not be putting him threw all this suffering just to let him die, so when I went to the dentist that is what he gave me and it worked so I've been taking it every since so that is what I found that would stop this pain until I can afford to go back to the dentist and get all my teeth taken care of becuase now it is very hard for me to go to the hospital in the middle of the night and get a shot that knocks me out for a few days, which scared me half to death .Because when I'm in pain I get very agravated and don't want no one messing with or talking to me and I don't know why I'm that way but I'am. Any way that is why I started taking it in the first place and I wish that I would have never started, if I'd only know then what I know now..Well thank you all for taking the time to read this, I know alot of it does not have to do with the Vicodin[in terms of my husband's illness] but just wanted to explain.Well good luck to all with the battle's with medication's and god bless you all. Bizziebe
Just for the shear joy of terrorizing you further, there actually IS one more thing to be concerned with (truly) when taking Vicodin, my friend -- Tylenol-induced liver damage.
True, for two years running I took up to 100 Vicodin per day (each pill with the equivalent of an extra-strength Tylenol in it) and through some work of the devil, I'm still walking around and my liver test three weeks ago was incomprehensibly normal. But I've been told by specialists that there are rare cases of people walking around that either naturally process Tylenol efficiently without appreciably damaging the liver, or, through years of progressively higher and higher doses, acquire a certain "resistance" to Tylenol's liver-toxic effects. I think I belong to the former category.
But if you're "the average joe," you don't enjoy that kind of safety margin, you need to heed the warnings on the bottles or from your pharmacist. I've most often heard that more than eight extra-strength Tylenol (generically called acetaminophen) has the potential, especially when there are other health factors involved, to cause irreversible liver damage leading to liver failure and death.
It's a lovely way to die, I hear. You get the news from your doctor that your liver has failed and you have a handful of days to live, allowing you to lie in a hospital bed and think about how you just threw your life away.
Of course, we're talking about maniacs like me who take ludicrous amounts of Vicodin, thus ingesting these aforementioned fatal doses of Tylenol. But, as I said, in my case, I have a deal with the devil that keeps me alive (I also haven't used Vicodin or Tylenol for several years, not wanting to test the limits of my infernal contract.)
As long as you don't exceed the maximum prescribed Vicodin dose, Bizziebe, you won't overdose on the Tylenol, so this message isn't really meant to alarm as much as educate you.
IMPORTANT: One recent, poorly publicized discovery, something you really should be mindful of regardless of whether you're doing one or 50 Vicodin per day:
Recent research has yielded what I understand to be pretty conclusive proof that mixing alcohol with Tylenol increases Tylenol's ability to damage the liver by a considerable margin. There is a well-documented story of a 30-ish man who downed three Tylenol with two beers and, as a result, died several days later of liver failure. The man had no previous history or either alcoholism or liver problems. Extreme example, I realize, but sobering tale, regardless!
This alcohol-tylenol "synergy of death" is on my mind from time to time because I know it's common practice for people to wash down Vicodins with beers or booze, either just to get a better buzz, or in an attempt at "stretching" their dwindling supply of Vics til he next refill becomes due.
Anyway, Bizziebe, especially since the MD on site took the time to address your concerns, I thought you were being ill served by not having the Tylenol-alcohol issue mentioned by him (Dr. Steve: educated, certainly, lazy, definitely).
Avoiding the problem, of course, is easy. Just don't drink with the Vics or anything with Tylenol (acetaminophen) in it. Tylenol, used properly, is still one of the safer, more effective over-the-counter painkillers around. I personally find enteric aspirin more effective (enteric ONLY, by the way, for your stomach's sake), but Tylenol, all in all, is still a good drug for minor pain and fever.
Hope this has helped without alarming you. From your earlier posts, it doesn't sound like you're doing anything dangerous with this stuff, but it's good to be aware of this stuff.
P.S. I repeated this same post in the next thread, but screwed up the paste job from Word, so I thought I'd try or a cleaner post.
Peace.
True, for two years running I took up to 100 Vicodin per day (each pill with the equivalent of an extra-strength Tylenol in it) and through some work of the devil, I'm still walking around and my liver test three weeks ago was incomprehensibly normal. But I've been told by specialists that there are rare cases of people walking around that either naturally process Tylenol efficiently without appreciably damaging the liver, or, through years of progressively higher and higher doses, acquire a certain "resistance" to Tylenol's liver-toxic effects. I think I belong to the former category.
But if you're "the average joe," you don't enjoy that kind of safety margin, you need to heed the warnings on the bottles or from your pharmacist. I've most often heard that more than eight extra-strength Tylenol (generically called acetaminophen) has the potential, especially when there are other health factors involved, to cause irreversible liver damage leading to liver failure and death.
It's a lovely way to die, I hear. You get the news from your doctor that your liver has failed and you have a handful of days to live, allowing you to lie in a hospital bed and think about how you just threw your life away.
Of course, we're talking about maniacs like me who take ludicrous amounts of Vicodin, thus ingesting these aforementioned fatal doses of Tylenol. But, as I said, in my case, I have a deal with the devil that keeps me alive (I also haven't used Vicodin or Tylenol for several years, not wanting to test the limits of my infernal contract.)
As long as you don't exceed the maximum prescribed Vicodin dose, Bizziebe, you won't overdose on the Tylenol, so this message isn't really meant to alarm as much as educate you.
IMPORTANT: One recent, poorly publicized discovery, something you really should be mindful of regardless of whether you're doing one or 50 Vicodin per day:
Recent research has yielded what I understand to be pretty conclusive proof that mixing alcohol with Tylenol increases Tylenol's ability to damage the liver by a considerable margin. There is a well-documented story of a 30-ish man who downed three Tylenol with two beers and, as a result, died several days later of liver failure. The man had no previous history or either alcoholism or liver problems. Extreme example, I realize, but sobering tale, regardless!
This alcohol-tylenol "synergy of death" is on my mind from time to time because I know it's common practice for people to wash down Vicodins with beers or booze, either just to get a better buzz, or in an attempt at "stretching" their dwindling supply of Vics til he next refill becomes due.
Anyway, Bizziebe, especially since the MD on site took the time to address your concerns, I thought you were being ill served by not having the Tylenol-alcohol issue mentioned by him (Dr. Steve: educated, certainly, lazy, definitely).
Avoiding the problem, of course, is easy. Just don't drink with the Vics or anything with Tylenol (acetaminophen) in it. Tylenol, used properly, is still one of the safer, more effective over-the-counter painkillers around. I personally find enteric aspirin more effective (enteric ONLY, by the way, for your stomach's sake), but Tylenol, all in all, is still a good drug for minor pain and fever.
Hope this has helped without alarming you. From your earlier posts, it doesn't sound like you're doing anything dangerous with this stuff, but it's good to be aware of this stuff.
P.S. I repeated this same post in the next thread, but screwed up the paste job from Word, so I thought I'd try or a cleaner post.
Peace.
Hey man, check it out. I'm now a methadone man. Not for maintanence, but for pain relief. I told you my problems with the MS, foggy head wise. Well, the option I thought was going to be Oxycontin or the like. The evil in me said, sure, I'll go along for the ride. The physical therapy I've been involved in has exacerbated my issues. Anyway, the doc says he's going to switch me to Methadone for pain management and that most of the people in the pain clinic are getting on or are on the same thing. I thought, damn, if only someone like tom could have had a doctor that thought this way.
Well, I can now say that methadone is NOT like Darvon, at all. The family resemblance isn't even slight. Of course, I didn't trust this "maintenance" drug for pain relief for proper pain control and justified doubling the dose right off the bat. I was hurting pretty good and just for good measure, in case the methadone didn't help, I popped two Vicodin as well. Well, to my surprise, I actually got a little tipsy on 10 mgs. of methadone and 2 Vicodin. Moreso than the 8-10 10 mg. Vicodin I had been taking. So, I am sitting here wondering, is my tolerance really okay after all these years? I mean, some of the people that have come on here with meth.maintanence are starting out at 60mgs +! If I had popped that today, I would have been laid out, and I've been going through the Hydrocodone like water. So I'm at a bit of a loss here. Spook? Doc Dan? What gives with that? I was up in the 100-150 mgs. of Hydrocodone a day and got goofy on 10 mgs of methadone. tom, I know, you're probably wondering why I'm sharing this, but with your past curiosity about this and the why and why nots of doctors just prescribing it for pain relief instead of going to the "skid row" clinics, I thought you might be interested. So, I'm controlling my pain at a way low dose of methadone, and in the back of my head I'm thinking that I'm halfway to stopping it all when/if my pain issues get resolved. I'm rather stoked about the whole thing. My heart sunk when I didn't get put on the pure evil. Now, I know that it's in my best interest. Just as long as I don't go overboard with my monthly alotment now, that's the struggle. Anyway, there are doctors out there that are doing this. He is NOT a licensed methadone maintenance doctor either. He can only prescribe what he did for pain. It's too bad there's no standards in this country. Let me know what you think, or just read what I wrote, no big whoop. Take it easy, hope the programs still cooking along with you.
Well, I can now say that methadone is NOT like Darvon, at all. The family resemblance isn't even slight. Of course, I didn't trust this "maintenance" drug for pain relief for proper pain control and justified doubling the dose right off the bat. I was hurting pretty good and just for good measure, in case the methadone didn't help, I popped two Vicodin as well. Well, to my surprise, I actually got a little tipsy on 10 mgs. of methadone and 2 Vicodin. Moreso than the 8-10 10 mg. Vicodin I had been taking. So, I am sitting here wondering, is my tolerance really okay after all these years? I mean, some of the people that have come on here with meth.maintanence are starting out at 60mgs +! If I had popped that today, I would have been laid out, and I've been going through the Hydrocodone like water. So I'm at a bit of a loss here. Spook? Doc Dan? What gives with that? I was up in the 100-150 mgs. of Hydrocodone a day and got goofy on 10 mgs of methadone. tom, I know, you're probably wondering why I'm sharing this, but with your past curiosity about this and the why and why nots of doctors just prescribing it for pain relief instead of going to the "skid row" clinics, I thought you might be interested. So, I'm controlling my pain at a way low dose of methadone, and in the back of my head I'm thinking that I'm halfway to stopping it all when/if my pain issues get resolved. I'm rather stoked about the whole thing. My heart sunk when I didn't get put on the pure evil. Now, I know that it's in my best interest. Just as long as I don't go overboard with my monthly alotment now, that's the struggle. Anyway, there are doctors out there that are doing this. He is NOT a licensed methadone maintenance doctor either. He can only prescribe what he did for pain. It's too bad there's no standards in this country. Let me know what you think, or just read what I wrote, no big whoop. Take it easy, hope the programs still cooking along with you.
Well, deals with the devil notwithstanding, Thomas (and certainly not an endorsement to do anything this stupid), but. . .
. . .as far as "Superlivers" are concerned, mine probably is up in the Hall Of Shame category, since after amnu episodes of abusing Vicodin/Tylenol w/Codeine/whatever containing Tylenol (usually by the handful), *then* going out and getting abysmally drunk -- I STILL have zero liver damage. Go figure. Again, to all reading, do not take this as license to be stupidly self-destructive, but I find the story of Tylenol and one beer a little (well, actually a lot) too extreme to be true without the presence of some severe underlying liver problem in the deceased (not that it makes any difference to the victim -- dead is still dead).
Peace,
Pelle
. . .as far as "Superlivers" are concerned, mine probably is up in the Hall Of Shame category, since after amnu episodes of abusing Vicodin/Tylenol w/Codeine/whatever containing Tylenol (usually by the handful), *then* going out and getting abysmally drunk -- I STILL have zero liver damage. Go figure. Again, to all reading, do not take this as license to be stupidly self-destructive, but I find the story of Tylenol and one beer a little (well, actually a lot) too extreme to be true without the presence of some severe underlying liver problem in the deceased (not that it makes any difference to the victim -- dead is still dead).
Peace,
Pelle
Sorry. . ."amnu" is not some foreign word, it was supposed to be "many". Guess it's time to take my tired fingers to bed. :)
Also, I stand corrected -- the story referred to by Thomas of the 30-something (dead) man states that he had *two* beers, not one, with his three Tylenol. Again, my mistake.
Pelle
Also, I stand corrected -- the story referred to by Thomas of the 30-something (dead) man states that he had *two* beers, not one, with his three Tylenol. Again, my mistake.
Pelle
I think it's great you're using the methadone for pain relief! I have always read that it is one of the best, most effective, and most "benign" to the body of all the strong painkillers. Congratulations, my friend! Sounds like you've a great doctor with something gong on upstairs. Although methadone is undeniably a godsend to heroin addicts, it tends to give it a bad name it never, never deserved in terms of it being a legitimate and wonderfully effective painkiller. I think you've found a wonderful solution and I send you my sincerest wishes that this is the solution you've been looking for. I know with all those key bone breaks in the worst possible places, you've deserved this solution for a long time.
I'm immensely happy for you. No one deserves to languish in pain and I know you've been through a lot already.
Good luck to you, my friend,
Your friend,
Thomas.
I'm immensely happy for you. No one deserves to languish in pain and I know you've been through a lot already.
Good luck to you, my friend,
Your friend,
Thomas.
Just off the top of my head-(Cerebral frontal Cortex):
1.Opioids(Hydrocodone) have no such Cardiotoxicity.in fact respiritory and gastrointestinal paralysis are the major short term and long term factors to concern oneself with.And even then the `Toxicity` is fully reversible.
2.It sounds to me that you suffer from Panick Disorder and have discovered that Opioids are a very effective anti-panick agent.
So now you can include panick attacks as a symptom of Opioid withdrawal.Typically they are not.
1.Opioids(Hydrocodone) have no such Cardiotoxicity.in fact respiritory and gastrointestinal paralysis are the major short term and long term factors to concern oneself with.And even then the `Toxicity` is fully reversible.
2.It sounds to me that you suffer from Panick Disorder and have discovered that Opioids are a very effective anti-panick agent.
So now you can include panick attacks as a symptom of Opioid withdrawal.Typically they are not.
Their are many types of Opioid receptors and also subtypes of them,there are also ~sites? that one opioid ie(methadone)will bind(influence) that another Opioid ie(Hydrocodone)will not.
One thing that all Opioids have in Common is a resonable binding affinity for "Mu" Opioid receptors(PAIN) and stimulation of the Mesolimbic Dopaminergic VTA-Nucleus Accumbens reward circuit(EUPHORIA-unfortunate).
Methadone is goofing you out because it *(binds more tightly in relative global "Mu" receptor affinity to a sub-type) in the Mesencephalon area(brain stem) concerned with states of arousal and perception.
So it will make you spacey and drowsy and the Hydrocodone will make you "more" euphoric and alert and actived.
Methadone binds pretty strongly to gastrointestinal Opioid *receptors and is considered superior to morphine for stomach pain.
In fact I ONCE used so much Codeine SO often that instead of an Adrenalin RUSH resulting from fright I would get a Codeine RUSH,I have not bothered looking into the Neurophysiology behind this effect,but am not to surprised as Codeine is stimulant and will cause convulsions as per any stimulant in doses that are large(>300mg single oral dose).
Some Opioids are not very specific at all(Mu)receptor and are more Hallucinogenic than Analgesic,so they are not used much.
One thing that all Opioids have in Common is a resonable binding affinity for "Mu" Opioid receptors(PAIN) and stimulation of the Mesolimbic Dopaminergic VTA-Nucleus Accumbens reward circuit(EUPHORIA-unfortunate).
Methadone is goofing you out because it *(binds more tightly in relative global "Mu" receptor affinity to a sub-type) in the Mesencephalon area(brain stem) concerned with states of arousal and perception.
So it will make you spacey and drowsy and the Hydrocodone will make you "more" euphoric and alert and actived.
Methadone binds pretty strongly to gastrointestinal Opioid *receptors and is considered superior to morphine for stomach pain.
In fact I ONCE used so much Codeine SO often that instead of an Adrenalin RUSH resulting from fright I would get a Codeine RUSH,I have not bothered looking into the Neurophysiology behind this effect,but am not to surprised as Codeine is stimulant and will cause convulsions as per any stimulant in doses that are large(>300mg single oral dose).
Some Opioids are not very specific at all(Mu)receptor and are more Hallucinogenic than Analgesic,so they are not used much.
Also,It sounds like you are a Methadone Virgin,in which case you will have exquisite sensitivity,enjoy,while it lasts.
Methadone is ofen used for chronic pain sufferers in Australia,as it is considered qualitatively superior to Morphine for Chronic pain and can be given in a way that gives very stable blood levels,below is very approximate for single oral dose,nb Methadone will accumulate due to long half life.
10mg Methadone is equal to 30mg Morphine
30mg Morphine " " " 50mg Hydrocodone
Methadone is ofen used for chronic pain sufferers in Australia,as it is considered qualitatively superior to Morphine for Chronic pain and can be given in a way that gives very stable blood levels,below is very approximate for single oral dose,nb Methadone will accumulate due to long half life.
10mg Methadone is equal to 30mg Morphine
30mg Morphine " " " 50mg Hydrocodone
Sir, I can only point out the difference in the two medications. Vicodin is a short acting medicine with actions similar to codeine. Methadone is a long acting medicine with actions similar to morphine. That is the basic difference. Methadone maintenance is about finding an adequate dose that stops all opiate cravings
and withdrawals. MMT is not about producing a high. Higher doses are needed some times to achieve this need. Pill addicts require doses in the 60-80 mg range to stop all cravings
and withdrawals. MMT is about being comfortable for 24 hours without cravings and withdrawals. Higher doses are needed to accomplish this feat. The high associated with methadone will rapidly disapate to produce a patient that functions without craving and withdrawals.
Dan...
and withdrawals. MMT is not about producing a high. Higher doses are needed some times to achieve this need. Pill addicts require doses in the 60-80 mg range to stop all cravings
and withdrawals. MMT is about being comfortable for 24 hours without cravings and withdrawals. Higher doses are needed to accomplish this feat. The high associated with methadone will rapidly disapate to produce a patient that functions without craving and withdrawals.
Dan...
From reading your post here and the one below, I would say that you need to be treated for panic and anxiety. My own wife has similar problems with narcotics and usually refuses them in favor of Xanax. She has cancer related pain and has been prescribed mega-doses of Lortab and Vicodin ES. She rarely uses them out of fear of addiction and the "funny feelings" they give her. For the life of me, I don't understand it! I'm just the opposite preferring opiates over benzos for pain. J.B.
I'm already getting treated for my panic attacks and anxiety with the medication Xanax, but scared to take it with the vicodin and the same reason I won't take Vicoidin every 4-6 hours as prescribed I don't want to get addicted to none of it and be all messed up, I know a few family member's that are addicted and only take them for the 'high' and that has always scared me. I make sure there is a lot of hours in between the two[VicodinEs, Xanax] if I need to take the Xanax. The whole reason I take the Vicodin is because I don't want to deal with my toothaches because they get so bad,and as I have said I don't have money to go to the dentist at this time, but will soon thank god, then I can stop panicing over all this! Haha.. But I wish I could only use the Xanax but they don't stop my pain..And I think I have done pretty good I've been on them for 4 years now but only take it when I have a panic attack which is maybe 2-3 times a week and sometimes 0 that week, I have learned to control my fear in some ways but sometimes the brain just takes over and I end up taking one if the attack stays with me for hours.. Thanks for your comment and good luck to your wife and you. ps:What is Opiates and Benzos??
First of all, tom, thank you very much for your post. Your sincerity and concern have made my day. Honestly. Spook, thank you for your wisdom. I'll have to re-read it a couple of times, I'm but a man with a B.A., takes awhile to understand that stuff!:) Dan, thanks for your input. I hope you didn't think that I was TRYING to get high. I honestly didn't trust the methadone to adequately treat my pain. It is one of the misconceptions that tom speaks of that it's link with heroin withdrawal has produced. I thought, oh well, only 5 mgs. can't be much especially with what I've read here. Of course, I was physically and pharmacologically wrong. But I too am still learning. On the way to the Dr's yesterday, I thought a lot about my wife and daughter. I made my case for a "stronger" triplicate drug. Oxycodone being the one I went in for. I'll be honest. Well, when I got methadone, after the initial "let-down" I was relieved. It has worked great just in the last 24 hours for pain relief and the side effects are minimal. Less so than with the MS Contin. Would I like to be like tom right now and be on nothing? Of course. But with this doctor, not only have I seen him make the best choices pharmaceutically but I have an open dialogue with him about my pain. My initial reaction to him was Methadone? You don't think I'm a drug addict do you? Of course he didn't and couldn't treat me that way even if he did. Along with his explanation of methadone came the inevitable explanation of how it's used in withdrawal cases. He said he never wants me to go through withdrawals. Which leads me to believe that I've finally found a doctor that will not only help me responsibly with pain management, but when the time comes will not cut me off cold turkey and send me out into the cold. Ask anyone here, that is a rare find. I haven't felt this "secure" in ages. I have no intention of getting on the 150 mgs. of methadone a day deal. I know that no one "plans" that and that it can sneak up on me, but I feel that I owe myself, my family and my doctor the same amount of respect and understanding that they've afforded me. I can show that by not Junking out. So, again, please Dan, know that my initial bewilderment of being high on 10 mgs. of methadone was just that, bewilderment. It wasn't an attempt on my part at all. It surprised the hell out of me. Good day to all. Thanks again.
"Opiates" describe the family of narcotic painkillers. Morphine, Dilaudid, Codeine, Hydrocodone (Vicodin), demerol, etc. They are natural, semi-synthetic and synthetic. The purest are derived directly from the Opium Poppy, hence the name "OPIates". In the USA you need a prescription for all opiates. Opiates, after prolonged use produce tolerance and dependance that although aren't life threatening to withdraw from, are very uncomfortable.
"Benzos" are tranquilizers. The Benzodiazapine family. These include Librium, Valium, Xanax, Restoril, Ativan etc. All of these are closely related chemically. The relieve anxiety etc. Benzos also produce tolerance and dependence. At even moderate doses though, unlike opiates, acute (quick) withdrawal from benzos can be life threatening.
Sounds to me like you have your head on straight about both drugs and are taking care of any addiction and/or withdrawal problems on the front end by watching how many you take now. Very wise. Good luck, and be careful because they sneak up on you when you're not looking.
"Benzos" are tranquilizers. The Benzodiazapine family. These include Librium, Valium, Xanax, Restoril, Ativan etc. All of these are closely related chemically. The relieve anxiety etc. Benzos also produce tolerance and dependence. At even moderate doses though, unlike opiates, acute (quick) withdrawal from benzos can be life threatening.
Sounds to me like you have your head on straight about both drugs and are taking care of any addiction and/or withdrawal problems on the front end by watching how many you take now. Very wise. Good luck, and be careful because they sneak up on you when you're not looking.
First off why would you want to get joy out of terrorizing me more? I see no joy out of scaring people..I already have HepC and I get my blood work done regulary [1xmonth]and they seem to be fine for now, actually the doctor says that is good and he can't beleave I'm doing so good, so I thank god everyday for that.And WHEW' I could never imagine taking that many Vicodin's in one day! I would overdose and wouldn't half to worry about panicing again!! Haha.And I'm fully aware of The Lovely way to die as you put it, my husband has HepC and Cirrhosis and is in need of a liver transplant ASAP and I live everyday with him suffering and I know I don't want to go threw that, I never knew what complications one's liver could do to the body until all this happened to my husband. That why when I was surfing I came upon all this and became aware of this addiction and went to my doctor with it and he said with how much I'm taking I should not have no worries as long as my blood work is normal and I don't get addicted, he feels that I'm not but I wonder, that is why I started asking questions when I found this website. As for the Alcohol no way!! I do not drink at all, I use to every now and then but when all this happened with my husband I won't drink a drop..And I worry about overdosing on two Vicodin's a day much less 10 or twenty! They say your tolerence builds up but I guess mine is not cause it keeps my pain down with one a day after a year.Very good for you for not using, just keep up the good work, were you taking them for pain or the high? If you don't mind me asking..thanks and peace to you too.
I find it `odd` that you have been taking xanax for 4 years and sometimes 2-3 times a week and other weeks none.
First reason is because with True Panick Disorder,the usual dosage required is 6mg(average)per day.
So the dose you take when you do take it for a "panick"? must be small <2mg or else it would knock you out(sleep),therefore I can only presume you take 1mg or 0.5mg,now it is not known to medical science (YET)that a dose of (Alprazolam)brand name "xanax" that small could stop a panick attack.
Next problem is between dose(interdose) anxiety,you see,even if you have been only using say 1.5mg per week average for 4 years it is unreasonable to miss a week without getting Withdrawal symptoms.
Conclusions,you do not have Panick Disorder Diagnosis.
Your Doctor does not know what Benzodiazepines are either.
You are not taking the medication as prescribed.
All of the above.
Well at least you know that Opioids are free of life threatening toxic effects(you know like tobacco,ie,CANCER).Although you certainly are far from knowing everthing their is to know about "Hydrocodone".
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Their actually is a Difference between Opioids and Opiates,"all Opiates are Opioids but not all Opioids are Opiates",does that clear it up?Clue:some come from Opium(Morphine Base),some are Synthetic,but all effect the Opioid Receptor System.
Give it away:Opiates come from the Opium Poppy.
Why not confuse things more and introduce the semisynthetic Opiates,ie Hydrocodone,also known as 14-hydroxy,7-8-dihydro,3-methyl,6-morphinone.
Basically they just grabbed some (god made-see Morphius)Morphine out of an opium poppy(natural) and then for some bizzare reason(honestly ,I do not know)have wacked on a hydroxy,2 hydrogens a methyl group and torn the hydrogen off the 6-position.
All this effort and the drug is just as if not more addictive than morphine.And no better an Analgesic.
The writing is on the wall for Oxycodone,next Hydrocodone can get the flick.
I think it is time SOME people woke up and smelled the poppies.
First reason is because with True Panick Disorder,the usual dosage required is 6mg(average)per day.
So the dose you take when you do take it for a "panick"? must be small <2mg or else it would knock you out(sleep),therefore I can only presume you take 1mg or 0.5mg,now it is not known to medical science (YET)that a dose of (Alprazolam)brand name "xanax" that small could stop a panick attack.
Next problem is between dose(interdose) anxiety,you see,even if you have been only using say 1.5mg per week average for 4 years it is unreasonable to miss a week without getting Withdrawal symptoms.
Conclusions,you do not have Panick Disorder Diagnosis.
Your Doctor does not know what Benzodiazepines are either.
You are not taking the medication as prescribed.
All of the above.
Well at least you know that Opioids are free of life threatening toxic effects(you know like tobacco,ie,CANCER).Although you certainly are far from knowing everthing their is to know about "Hydrocodone".
=================================================================
Their actually is a Difference between Opioids and Opiates,"all Opiates are Opioids but not all Opioids are Opiates",does that clear it up?Clue:some come from Opium(Morphine Base),some are Synthetic,but all effect the Opioid Receptor System.
Give it away:Opiates come from the Opium Poppy.
Why not confuse things more and introduce the semisynthetic Opiates,ie Hydrocodone,also known as 14-hydroxy,7-8-dihydro,3-methyl,6-morphinone.
Basically they just grabbed some (god made-see Morphius)Morphine out of an opium poppy(natural) and then for some bizzare reason(honestly ,I do not know)have wacked on a hydroxy,2 hydrogens a methyl group and torn the hydrogen off the 6-position.
All this effort and the drug is just as if not more addictive than morphine.And no better an Analgesic.
The writing is on the wall for Oxycodone,next Hydrocodone can get the flick.
I think it is time SOME people woke up and smelled the poppies.
I find it `odd` that you have been taking xanax for 4 years and sometimes 2-3 times a week and other weeks none.
First reason is because with True Panick Disorder,the usual dosage required is 6mg(average)per day.
So the dose you take when you do take it for a "panick"? must be small <2mg or else it would knock you out(sleep),therefore I can only presume you take 1mg or 0.5mg,now it is not known to medical science (YET)that a dose of (Alprazolam)brand name "xanax" that small could stop a panick attack.
Next problem is between dose(interdose) anxiety,you see,even if you have been only using say 1.5mg per week average for 4 years it is unreasonable to miss a week without getting Withdrawal symptoms.
Conclusions,you do not have Panick Disorder Diagnosis.
Your Doctor does not know what Benzodiazepines are either.
You are not taking the medication as prescribed.
All of the above.
Well at least you know that Opioids are free of life threatening toxic effects(you know like tobacco,ie,CANCER).Although you certainly are far from knowing everthing their is to know about "Hydrocodone".
=================================================================
Their actually is a Difference between Opioids and Opiates,"all Opiates are Opioids but not all Opioids are Opiates",does that clear it up?Clue:some come from Opium(Morphine Base),some are Synthetic,but all effect the Opioid Receptor System.
Give it away:Opiates come from the Opium Poppy.
Why not confuse things more and introduce the semisynthetic Opiates,ie Hydrocodone,also known as 14-hydroxy,7-8-dihydro,3-methyl,6-morphinone.
Basically they just grabbed some (god made-see Morphius)Morphine out of an opium poppy(natural) and then for some bizzare reason(honestly ,I do not know)have wacked on using heaps of dangerous chemicals: a hydroxy,2 hydrogens a methyl group and torn the hydrogen off the 6-position.
All this effort and the drug is just as if not more addictive than morphine.And no better an Analgesic.
The writing is on the wall for Oxycodone,next Hydrocodone can get the flick.
I think it is time SOME people woke up and smelled the poppies.
They do not smell like this $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
First reason is because with True Panick Disorder,the usual dosage required is 6mg(average)per day.
So the dose you take when you do take it for a "panick"? must be small <2mg or else it would knock you out(sleep),therefore I can only presume you take 1mg or 0.5mg,now it is not known to medical science (YET)that a dose of (Alprazolam)brand name "xanax" that small could stop a panick attack.
Next problem is between dose(interdose) anxiety,you see,even if you have been only using say 1.5mg per week average for 4 years it is unreasonable to miss a week without getting Withdrawal symptoms.
Conclusions,you do not have Panick Disorder Diagnosis.
Your Doctor does not know what Benzodiazepines are either.
You are not taking the medication as prescribed.
All of the above.
Well at least you know that Opioids are free of life threatening toxic effects(you know like tobacco,ie,CANCER).Although you certainly are far from knowing everthing their is to know about "Hydrocodone".
=================================================================
Their actually is a Difference between Opioids and Opiates,"all Opiates are Opioids but not all Opioids are Opiates",does that clear it up?Clue:some come from Opium(Morphine Base),some are Synthetic,but all effect the Opioid Receptor System.
Give it away:Opiates come from the Opium Poppy.
Why not confuse things more and introduce the semisynthetic Opiates,ie Hydrocodone,also known as 14-hydroxy,7-8-dihydro,3-methyl,6-morphinone.
Basically they just grabbed some (god made-see Morphius)Morphine out of an opium poppy(natural) and then for some bizzare reason(honestly ,I do not know)have wacked on using heaps of dangerous chemicals: a hydroxy,2 hydrogens a methyl group and torn the hydrogen off the 6-position.
All this effort and the drug is just as if not more addictive than morphine.And no better an Analgesic.
The writing is on the wall for Oxycodone,next Hydrocodone can get the flick.
I think it is time SOME people woke up and smelled the poppies.
They do not smell like this $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
If you want to see if you're addicted, stop taking the Vics for 24 hours. If you don't get depressed, have a runny nose (and runny behind), yawn a lot, have cramps, and like that, you're not addicted.
Okay fist thing,I do have a Panic Disorder, when I have one of these attacks my heart starts racing 90 to nothing and my hands start sweating and this awful fear that I'm going to die comes over me,most of the time I think I'm going to have a heart attack and I use to spend ALOT of time at the hospital ER just for them to tell me I had a PA,but in the beginning it was really bad, I quit eating in fear of the food was poisoned, I wouldn't eat anything unless my husband ate it first and then I would wait hours before I would eat it just to make sure it was safe, but it got to the point that I was starving my self and dehrdrating because it was the same route with drinking, and my husband worked at that time and I was home with kids by my self so I would go all day before drinking and eating,and I lost almost a hundred pounds within three weeks, but I ened up at MHMR to seek help because my husband and best friend seen that this was seriuos and I needed more help than they could give, and they sent me straight in the mental hospital, and I learned what trigger's my attacks so over the years so I avoid the situations like now it is to the point where I don't leave home unless I half to and traveling is out of the question, I won't live far from the hospital either. As far as going to stores or family get together's almost all times I end up in a panic, [too many people and noise] but hwne I have my attacks I tell my husband and he talks me threw them and when that don't work and they it stay's with me for a long time I end up taking a Xanax 0.5mg is what is prscribed to me, but I have learned to avoid what trigger's them so in a short statement I have not really delt with my problem or faced my fears, but all the dostor's I've been to for this is a joke and only wants your money and wants to put me on all kinds of medicines like Zoloff and Restoril and Xanax,I don't want all that because I don't want to half to depend on that many medicines to make me better and besides that I don't have money for all that.As for the medications I won't take just anything either like capsuls, I try to stick to what I have taken before so I know it won't hurt me, so no I do not take the Xanax as it is prescribed[3xday] or the Vicodin every4-6 hours] because I would be in LALA land and sleeping all the time and that I do not want. Alot of times when I have a attack I keep telling my self this is just an attack and I will be okay and I pray and it helps a lot. Who knows why I don't have withdrawl from the Xanax.. Do you also think I should have withdrawls from the Vicodin if I miss a couple of days? And what else do I need to know about Vicodins? I wish I could talk to you in chat, do you have aol instant messenger or Icq? I would love to talk to you than to try to explain in a long letter. Maybe I could meet you in the chat room they offer in this fourm[medhelp] just let me know and thanks for the comment.
Thank you for your comment, I can go a day with out any of that so thank God I guess I'm not addicted, huh? Is that the only affects you get from withdrawls? But I half to tell you I know I'm depressed because I'm going threw alot with my husband he is not expected to live another year [so the doctors say] anyway. So is that a sign that I'm addicted? One more question why doesn't anyone go into the chat room that they offer from this site?
I agree that you do have predominantly "limited" symptom Panick attacks and in the past have had "FULL blown"requiring Hospitalization;the ones that make you feel like you are dying,etc.These Attacks have now evolved and are now associated or triggered by normal social situations(well for the 21 century),you have described the sympoms well.You seem to have a lot of Anticipatory Aversion to the triggers and this keeps you house bound,I think you have settled down a lot since the fear of eating stage and you would be well advised to not use xanax for panick attacks,unless alternative therapy,Pharmacological and cognitive(behavioural) fails.
I know about the distorted horrific frightening sounds and fear of public places,learning to avoid the triggers,ie public, open places,public transport,public speaking,crowds,etc,will interfere with your daily life functioning to much and is the opposite to cognitive or behavioural therapy.This is when a Psychiatric nurse will accomply you into the situation causing fear and panick and stay by your side,as you feel better to handle it alone they will walk in front of you slightly and eventually when comfortable you can venture out on your own.Sometimes Panick disorder resembles social Phobia,this is when you feel watched in public,dislike eating in public or using public toilets etc,the social phobia seems to develop secondary to the inital onset of Panick disorder.
Hypochondria? and OCD?,in your case(fear of eating,because may be poisoned)although this is usually a withdrawal/rebound symptom of Xanax withdrawals,a type of delusional paranoia.So in this resect I highly suspect you are getting withdrawals from the xanax.
Zoloft is effective againced Panick attacks and is non addictive unlike xanax.Aurorix is good for Anticipatory aversion and panick attacks and non addictive,Xanax in daily dose of 6mg works fine,but I think one is rather spaced out and highly addicted and you may as well get drunk to achieve the same result.
I would go off xanax and Vicodin and once stable from withdrawals,commence an `ssri` like Zoloft or try an MAOI like aurorix(does not attenuate libido)and start on behaviour therapy,before things get beyond YOUR CONTROL.
Remember all addictive drugs will cause the opposite effects to that which they were originally intended durind withdrawal phase,this takes around 24hour on either xanax or Vicodin.
I know about the distorted horrific frightening sounds and fear of public places,learning to avoid the triggers,ie public, open places,public transport,public speaking,crowds,etc,will interfere with your daily life functioning to much and is the opposite to cognitive or behavioural therapy.This is when a Psychiatric nurse will accomply you into the situation causing fear and panick and stay by your side,as you feel better to handle it alone they will walk in front of you slightly and eventually when comfortable you can venture out on your own.Sometimes Panick disorder resembles social Phobia,this is when you feel watched in public,dislike eating in public or using public toilets etc,the social phobia seems to develop secondary to the inital onset of Panick disorder.
Hypochondria? and OCD?,in your case(fear of eating,because may be poisoned)although this is usually a withdrawal/rebound symptom of Xanax withdrawals,a type of delusional paranoia.So in this resect I highly suspect you are getting withdrawals from the xanax.
Zoloft is effective againced Panick attacks and is non addictive unlike xanax.Aurorix is good for Anticipatory aversion and panick attacks and non addictive,Xanax in daily dose of 6mg works fine,but I think one is rather spaced out and highly addicted and you may as well get drunk to achieve the same result.
I would go off xanax and Vicodin and once stable from withdrawals,commence an `ssri` like Zoloft or try an MAOI like aurorix(does not attenuate libido)and start on behaviour therapy,before things get beyond YOUR CONTROL.
Remember all addictive drugs will cause the opposite effects to that which they were originally intended durind withdrawal phase,this takes around 24hour on either xanax or Vicodin.
I am concerned about the denial present in various posts. Addicts? We are all addicts here! Pain or no pain. If we stop our medicine will all will experience withdrawals. BEing comfortable with a pain specialist is a secure feeling. Why,because we do not have to worry about where our next dose will come from. Pain produces this need and so does addiction. Can a patient with pain be called an addict? Dependent yes? Addict I am not sure. Only the brain of the patient know this answer. Most pain patients experience some form of withdrawals. A few do not experience any withdrawals. Pain produces a need that is simlar to an addict. I don't think it is necessary to be concerned. A diabetic does not feel guilty when he injects his insulin. A epileptic does not wonder if he should remain dependent on his dilantin. Why does a pain patient have to wonder if he is an addict. Dependent or addict. I am not sure that he/she is not both. What does it matter? Because our society dictates what we are. Any comments?
DAn...
DAn...
I don't know whether this will help you in some way but I'll tell it to you anyway.
I am also in end stage liver disease with Hep C and cirrohsis and need a liver asap. My wife has lung cancer that has not responded to any therapy yet. We are supposedly at death's door according to our doctors. I was supposed to be dead two years ago! We are both still very much alive and viable here so don't get too excited about the doctor's opinions and statistics.
God has the final say-so as to our fates in this life and no matter what we do...what will be, will be! We've had to go through all the various stages of fear, anger, denial, etc. to get where we are today...acceptance. Now we are able to go on with our lives with our heads held high. It's a feeling of hope, courage and dignity till "death do us part", amen. J.B.
I am also in end stage liver disease with Hep C and cirrohsis and need a liver asap. My wife has lung cancer that has not responded to any therapy yet. We are supposedly at death's door according to our doctors. I was supposed to be dead two years ago! We are both still very much alive and viable here so don't get too excited about the doctor's opinions and statistics.
God has the final say-so as to our fates in this life and no matter what we do...what will be, will be! We've had to go through all the various stages of fear, anger, denial, etc. to get where we are today...acceptance. Now we are able to go on with our lives with our heads held high. It's a feeling of hope, courage and dignity till "death do us part", amen. J.B.
Your post makes a lot of sense to me but one comment I truly don't get is how do you get I have withdrawls from Xanax in the statement you said about'Fear of not eating' when all this started before I ever took Xanax before in my life?? That is why they started giving it to me, so what you are saying is Xanax should not be given for this type of illness?? And til this day I still battle with it but have more control over it and as far as the bathrooms in public 'Noway'.. My kids don't even use it I don't let them at all. I have learned so much about how dieases are pasted since we found out about my husband's illness, si I'm really bad about it now. I don't know if some will say I'm in denial but I sure would like to find out, but I don't have any of the syptoms that everyone has that I read about when I miss a day or two of my meds..Because if I did I would freak out and panic that something is wrong with my health. So where does that put me?? And you know when I'm in a panic yes the Xanax does help.Any comments? Have a good day..
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