Aa
Congradulations to clean time this week!!!!!
Congradulations to you all!! I'm sure there has been some mental bumps and bruises this week, and I'm sure some that have healed as well. Stay strong and surround yourself with those people places,and things that truely care. I wanted to share a short quote by a person who I've learned so much from his name is Dr. Vincent Dole " The goal is NOT abstinence; the goal is to become functional".
Take care, Dr.Mike
Take care, Dr.Mike
Thanks for monitoring; glad you're here!
about the quote: " The goal is NOT abstinence; the goal is to become functional".
I suppose that applies to most alcoholics/addicts, BUT there are some like me who were quite functional while using...
About 1 year ago, here's my usual day:
Wake up @ 7:00, get ready for work..
Work from 8:00 to 5:00, stop at liquor store on way home, buy a 1.75 bottle of Vodka or Gin, drink from 5:15 until whenever I passed out, wake up again at 7:00... Repeat daily for 2 years...
I completed neccessary tasks, and was "Functional"... but FAR from human!
so for me, I'll go by the quote, "the goal is abstinence, thus becoming more human..."
By that, I mean that I now can feel emotion, etc. and generally deal with life without a crutch.
BUT- for the most part, the original quote you posted is correct for most of us addicts out here!
Thanks again for the input,
Jess
about the quote: " The goal is NOT abstinence; the goal is to become functional".
I suppose that applies to most alcoholics/addicts, BUT there are some like me who were quite functional while using...
About 1 year ago, here's my usual day:
Wake up @ 7:00, get ready for work..
Work from 8:00 to 5:00, stop at liquor store on way home, buy a 1.75 bottle of Vodka or Gin, drink from 5:15 until whenever I passed out, wake up again at 7:00... Repeat daily for 2 years...
I completed neccessary tasks, and was "Functional"... but FAR from human!
so for me, I'll go by the quote, "the goal is abstinence, thus becoming more human..."
By that, I mean that I now can feel emotion, etc. and generally deal with life without a crutch.
BUT- for the most part, the original quote you posted is correct for most of us addicts out here!
Thanks again for the input,
Jess
I guess what I was trying to say is that if you go by that quote, AND you happen to be a functioning Alcoholic or addict,
What reason would you have to quit?
cheers,
Jess
What reason would you have to quit?
cheers,
Jess
Thanks Doc!I've been clean for 17 days now from methadone.
Yes I have have many bumps to go over but they where there
when I was using,they are just more important now.Once again I
want to thank everyone for making this struggle I have gone
thru much more worth while knowing their are many addicts
wanting to be clean.Just reading your posts and replys to my cries for help have made this experience one which I hope
no one ever has to go thru.This board has been my only connection
to help.My spouse refuses to help and to be honest has made it worse,but I did lie to her about my using for the past year.
She lost a daughter 6 years ago by crack,she was murdered
and it has made my wife totally against any form of drugs,period.But I found you all and it has been one thing that has kept me from using.Using can be easy for me because one of best friends is a pain clinic doc and he knows me.I did ask that he not give me anything at all.He agreed unless he feels I
need it.I have to remember he is the one who talked me into taking Methadone.I wish now I would have never ever taken that first little pill.I feel methadone is a evil evil drug and has
no use in this society.But this is about the thanks for helping me cope with addiction,soTHANK YOU THANK YOU,THANK YOU all!!
peace,
bmac
Yes I have have many bumps to go over but they where there
when I was using,they are just more important now.Once again I
want to thank everyone for making this struggle I have gone
thru much more worth while knowing their are many addicts
wanting to be clean.Just reading your posts and replys to my cries for help have made this experience one which I hope
no one ever has to go thru.This board has been my only connection
to help.My spouse refuses to help and to be honest has made it worse,but I did lie to her about my using for the past year.
She lost a daughter 6 years ago by crack,she was murdered
and it has made my wife totally against any form of drugs,period.But I found you all and it has been one thing that has kept me from using.Using can be easy for me because one of best friends is a pain clinic doc and he knows me.I did ask that he not give me anything at all.He agreed unless he feels I
need it.I have to remember he is the one who talked me into taking Methadone.I wish now I would have never ever taken that first little pill.I feel methadone is a evil evil drug and has
no use in this society.But this is about the thanks for helping me cope with addiction,soTHANK YOU THANK YOU,THANK YOU all!!
peace,
bmac
Congrats, bmac. One question, though: I know Methadone is hard to quit, but what do you suggest for hard narcotics users that will simply go to the street if they can't get Methadone? Without methadone, their fate is jail and death. I know many, many people that think Methadone Maintenance is the best thing that ever happened to them. I must admit that, from what I've heard about Methadone withdrawal, it doesn't sound like a good drug to choose if your real plan is to detox quickly off of all drugs.
Thomas
Thomas
From what I understand methadone is a great way to keep people
that decide they are going to use no matter what.It doesn't get you as high as other things but you are just mellow nodding alot,just living.For people that are on the streets using heroin and the like I can't anwser about that.I am a prescription
addict.I have had 6 major surgeries in 10 years and know all the doc's that have seen me.I had an endless supply of hydro or oxy.
As long as I did it their way I could get a RX every 2 weeks.The amount was up to me.I went to a friend who is a pain clinic doc and knows addiction.His job is to make it legal for me to stay doped up so I will not hurt society (my opinion only).He
sees people that are in pain and CHOOSE to be on opiates.
After my last operation I began to notice I was getting hooked once again on Lorcet.I went to him and begged him to get me off drugs.He put me on methadone.60mgs a day then after 6 months 40 mgs aday then 20 then 10.18 days ago I decided that this was killing me.I did nothing,laid on a couch and took methadone for a year.Later I learned from this friend the pain doc Oh,you can
detox now so I did.GOD it was hell.Can't imagine people on
180 mgs aday withdrawing.
If you plan on being a user the rest of your life.Methadone is a great drug.If you plan on getting straight don't use it to detox from something else.Sorry for the long answer but this question you asked means alot to me.Methadone and ME have ruined any chance of my marriage working out and has caused get pain in withdrawing.
that decide they are going to use no matter what.It doesn't get you as high as other things but you are just mellow nodding alot,just living.For people that are on the streets using heroin and the like I can't anwser about that.I am a prescription
addict.I have had 6 major surgeries in 10 years and know all the doc's that have seen me.I had an endless supply of hydro or oxy.
As long as I did it their way I could get a RX every 2 weeks.The amount was up to me.I went to a friend who is a pain clinic doc and knows addiction.His job is to make it legal for me to stay doped up so I will not hurt society (my opinion only).He
sees people that are in pain and CHOOSE to be on opiates.
After my last operation I began to notice I was getting hooked once again on Lorcet.I went to him and begged him to get me off drugs.He put me on methadone.60mgs a day then after 6 months 40 mgs aday then 20 then 10.18 days ago I decided that this was killing me.I did nothing,laid on a couch and took methadone for a year.Later I learned from this friend the pain doc Oh,you can
detox now so I did.GOD it was hell.Can't imagine people on
180 mgs aday withdrawing.
If you plan on being a user the rest of your life.Methadone is a great drug.If you plan on getting straight don't use it to detox from something else.Sorry for the long answer but this question you asked means alot to me.Methadone and ME have ruined any chance of my marriage working out and has caused get pain in withdrawing.
I have been reading a lot on this forum, and it is VERY GOOD to know that what I have been experiencing can end on a positive note. I won't lie that looks about a 1,000 miles away from me right now....
I have been addicted to narcotics for over 3+ years. Even as I typed that it is hard to believe.... Most people who I have tried to open up to about my problem don't take it seriously because it is only a cough medicine (Tussinex). Believe me I have come to hate it...but I can't seem to stop...how sad is that..
I have stopped 1.5 days ago (Cold Turkey). I have done this before... This time I have made an appointment with a head doctor who specializes in substance abuse. I just had to take some more Imodium (GOD I HATE THE RUNS). I just wanted to thank everyone who post, what I am going through is hard, but alone it is harder (impossible). I will post again if anyone wants to know what made me hit the bottom... Also, and this is important If you are on w/d and take imodium and you use again while on the imodium bad things can happen. I know from personal experience...Lets just say I no longer have about 12' of my colon.
Thanks again,
God Bless
I have been addicted to narcotics for over 3+ years. Even as I typed that it is hard to believe.... Most people who I have tried to open up to about my problem don't take it seriously because it is only a cough medicine (Tussinex). Believe me I have come to hate it...but I can't seem to stop...how sad is that..
I have stopped 1.5 days ago (Cold Turkey). I have done this before... This time I have made an appointment with a head doctor who specializes in substance abuse. I just had to take some more Imodium (GOD I HATE THE RUNS). I just wanted to thank everyone who post, what I am going through is hard, but alone it is harder (impossible). I will post again if anyone wants to know what made me hit the bottom... Also, and this is important If you are on w/d and take imodium and you use again while on the imodium bad things can happen. I know from personal experience...Lets just say I no longer have about 12' of my colon.
Thanks again,
God Bless
Thanks for the thorough answer, bmac. I've heard enough not to go near methadone. I have been narco clean for about 2 weeks (an eternity by my standards), but after 30 years I would be blowing it out my rear if I said I had any sort of plan. The best I've been able to do is be grrrr "content" with what one doctor, also my friend and a truly great man, is willing to provide. That's my big victory. I don't chase the stuff and I sure as hell don't game the pharmacies (they've lost all sense of humor, anyway). Glad things are turning out so well for you. Oh, can you introduce me to your docs as, say, an old friend who saved your life several times? LOL
Thomas
Thomas
if your in birmingham alabama I would love to introduce you to one of the docs I know,but remember they make such a great living and income because we as addicts give them our insurance cards.ever heard this one.Why can I get a RX for 60 lorcets
for $24.00 then withdraw go to shrink and get anti depressive
drug that costs $102.00.I asked my shrink this question and his answer was American is a capitalist country.Drugs that are
fun and very addictive are cheap.Then when you decide to stop you pay in more than with you health.Why do shrinks charge
$300.00 an hour when my pain doc charged me $32.00 a visit.
Drug addiction is big business,thats why pain clinics are here.It's a legal form of the pusher man.They just do it
under the name of medicine.
for $24.00 then withdraw go to shrink and get anti depressive
drug that costs $102.00.I asked my shrink this question and his answer was American is a capitalist country.Drugs that are
fun and very addictive are cheap.Then when you decide to stop you pay in more than with you health.Why do shrinks charge
$300.00 an hour when my pain doc charged me $32.00 a visit.
Drug addiction is big business,thats why pain clinics are here.It's a legal form of the pusher man.They just do it
under the name of medicine.
That's not JUST cough medicine. That is the ambrosia of Schedule III! Tussionex is hydrocodone delivered in a resin complex that breaks down constantly over 8 or more hours like having a built-in morphine drip. I'd rather have that stuff than Oxy. Anyway, everything you've read about Vicodin withdrawal applies to you. It's not surprising that you've got the runs. You're lucky, though, if that's your biggest problem. At least you can take care of that with an OTC med. BTW, how much Imodium did you take? I've known a few people that get badly constipated on a normal dose of Imodium, but none of them were members of Club Narc. I'd be interested in hearing your story, but only if you promise to tell me how you managed to get so much Tussionex. LOL. Gotta pry one of those scripts out of the doc's dead bleeding hand (another humorless bunch).
Thomas
Thomas
I wish the entire medical apparatus were as fun loving as you portray them to be. But Noooooooo! Forge a script and the pharmacist calls the POLICE (again, no humor). The police take you to JAIL (even less humor). The JUDGE (humorless in the extreme) sends you to PRISON (utterly lacking in yucks).
That's the real problem as I see it. No humor. None. Just Silas Marner, sucking on a lemon pickled in vinigar, white coat, DEA badge in one hand, pills in the other -- Fuuuuuuuuck!
Sorry ... that Tussionex post got me jonesing big time. Should avoid those.
Thomas
That's the real problem as I see it. No humor. None. Just Silas Marner, sucking on a lemon pickled in vinigar, white coat, DEA badge in one hand, pills in the other -- Fuuuuuuuuck!
Sorry ... that Tussionex post got me jonesing big time. Should avoid those.
Thomas
You are a riot!! At least YOU still have a sense of humor!! And you're well-informed, too I like reading your posts. Good luck in your endeavor.. Peaz
Thanks, peaz. Drug addicts need an steel-plated sense of humor to get by in this world. As for being informed, I wish I knew nothing about any of this. Woops -- Too Late!
Thomas
Thomas
Don't worry--you're not being graded on grammar and syntax. But I wonder (since you're so DARN smart) if you can answer something for me: Is there some kind of protective law that prevents an employer from firing an employee for drug abuse? I mean--aren't they required to keep the job open for the person pending rehab? The reason I ask is, in the group of Health Professionals that I attend, I swear--I am the ONLY one who was canned--all the rest got a leave of absence and their jobs back at some point. Is that a matter of the employer's discretion? Did my employer just hate my guts?? Does this vary from state to state or is it a federal matter? Who is John Galt? You have 20 seconds.......
Methadone can be used for detox, as long as it is done properly. Many people have detoxed from it successfully. If you were nodding from it, your dose was too high. I am sure you didn't tell your doctor you were nodding from it. Methadone has its uses, and it is not just for maintanence. It sucks that you had a bad experience with it, but I do hate when I see people propogate the myth of methadone. As long as one detoxes from methadone within a month's time, they are in the clear. If one comes down off of it from being on maintanence, then they have to go slow....like 1mg a week. One way to look at it is that they didn't get hooked overnight, so they shouldn't worry about getting off of it overnight either. Methadone has saved many lives and is still considered the most effective opiate addiction treatment that we have as far as the statistics go. It certainly is not for everyone. I only endorse it as a last resort.....maintanence that is. I think anyone can benefit from a methadone detox....vicodin addict or heroin addict. A person who is a 15 vicodin a day user can do a 21 day detox with methadone and have virtually no withdrawal symptoms....as long as it is done right.
John Galt would say you were entitled to take all the drugs you had the ability to get your hands on. 'Think Ayn liked to get high? Always had a thing for her ... Anyway, sorry, but not THAT smart. All my law-learning has taken place on the receiving end. I attended one drug rehab with the full knowledge of my employer without being fired. But that was in the misty early 1990's ... we lay on white sheets, theme from Il Postino drifting down the hallway, the nurse like a waiter soliciting a good tip gayly entering the room with a platter of pills. "The Benzo Tortillini is especially good here," I'd say to my roomate.
"Would Monsier like me to open his Tussionex?" The nurse asks.
"Yes. Let it breath."
"Of course, Sir. Will there be anything else?"
"Yes. Step up my Demerol. We're feeling a bit peevish this evening."
"Certainly, Sir."
--- of course, I had really good insurance in those days.
I never gave any employer the opportunity to can me for using after that one rehab. Besides, the service was never the same ...
Perhaps someone else on the forum knows the answer to your question. My inability to suck scum always kept me out of law school.
Thomas
"Would Monsier like me to open his Tussionex?" The nurse asks.
"Yes. Let it breath."
"Of course, Sir. Will there be anything else?"
"Yes. Step up my Demerol. We're feeling a bit peevish this evening."
"Certainly, Sir."
--- of course, I had really good insurance in those days.
I never gave any employer the opportunity to can me for using after that one rehab. Besides, the service was never the same ...
Perhaps someone else on the forum knows the answer to your question. My inability to suck scum always kept me out of law school.
Thomas
Hi everyone! Sorry to but in on a thread. I have been reading this site every night for the past week and I have not been able to post yet. I really need some help. I have been taking Vicoden Es for about 2.5 yrs and I am up to 12 a day. I stopped cold turkey once and it lasted 15 days. I want to stop again and this time for good but I am scared to go cold turkey again. I have 4 small kids that depend on me. I guess I just need to know what would be a good way to stop and how can I get a professional to help me? I mean who am I supposed to go to? I don't want my kids to see me taking pills anymore. I am also scared that I won't be able to function off the drugs. I was never really happy until I started the Vicoden. Then everything was great for awhile. Now sometimes I feel happy and sometimes I don't. I guess I am just lost. I grew up with drug addicts for parents and I swore I wouldn't do that to my kids and look at me now. When I got addicted I was taking the pills for TMJ and I honestly didn't know they were addictive. I had never even heard of them before. Now I wish I wouldn't have heard of them at all. Sorry this is so long but any suggestions?
Ken Kesey has NOTHING on you...If you wrote a novel I promise I'd read it. Yeah, I love Ayn. With her verbose nature it's for sure she was a speed freak. But then she probably toked throughout the evening while sipping brandy, mellowing out after a hard day of philosophizing and postulating....
But, I digress...thanks for attempting to answer my question, anyway. It's not like I'm going to sue my ex-boss, anyway. I was just curious as to procedure. My situation was that i was stealing narcs from the pharmacy where I worked as a Pharm. Tech. and el senor made the deal that if I got help. he wouldn't press charges. So I could hardly argue w/ the termination...
So I totally switched careers(and I am not young--my walker is on order) and we'll see how it goes. Thanks for your replies. Peaz
But, I digress...thanks for attempting to answer my question, anyway. It's not like I'm going to sue my ex-boss, anyway. I was just curious as to procedure. My situation was that i was stealing narcs from the pharmacy where I worked as a Pharm. Tech. and el senor made the deal that if I got help. he wouldn't press charges. So I could hardly argue w/ the termination...
So I totally switched careers(and I am not young--my walker is on order) and we'll see how it goes. Thanks for your replies. Peaz
you are right about doing the detox the correct way.I didn't.
My addiction started way before I put myself on methadone.
In the course of my addiction and the depression I was under
I became a zombie.No, your'e right I didn't tell my doc.I
thought and this is my addiction talking,40 to 60 mgs a day
was a minimal dose.I went down to 20 mgs a day in about 10
months ,just guessing then to 10 mgs a day.Stay there 2 months
I think,then stopped!Aug 18th I took my last methadone tablet,period.I had a bad experience in this drug,psychologiclly
I mean it was more than I have ever felt,withdrawing.Being my
3rd or 4th or maybe 5th time to withdraw,hydro,oxy I never had a problem detoxing.I was sick for a week and got over it.Mentally!
I am sure you have experieced many more cases of addiction
than I.My addiction has always been private.Not even my spouse knew I used.Aug.18th I told her I had just taken my last methadone pill.Then I had to admit I was taking it for a year
without her even knowing.My problem is now not opiates.it's
getting over the physical and mental problems my addiction
has caused me.You are right to say methadone does work,I guess what I should have said was I had a bad experience with
methadone and left it at that.I use this board to vent my anger at myself,through these other addicts.I just went to far,sorry!
peace,
bmac
My addiction started way before I put myself on methadone.
In the course of my addiction and the depression I was under
I became a zombie.No, your'e right I didn't tell my doc.I
thought and this is my addiction talking,40 to 60 mgs a day
was a minimal dose.I went down to 20 mgs a day in about 10
months ,just guessing then to 10 mgs a day.Stay there 2 months
I think,then stopped!Aug 18th I took my last methadone tablet,period.I had a bad experience in this drug,psychologiclly
I mean it was more than I have ever felt,withdrawing.Being my
3rd or 4th or maybe 5th time to withdraw,hydro,oxy I never had a problem detoxing.I was sick for a week and got over it.Mentally!
I am sure you have experieced many more cases of addiction
than I.My addiction has always been private.Not even my spouse knew I used.Aug.18th I told her I had just taken my last methadone pill.Then I had to admit I was taking it for a year
without her even knowing.My problem is now not opiates.it's
getting over the physical and mental problems my addiction
has caused me.You are right to say methadone does work,I guess what I should have said was I had a bad experience with
methadone and left it at that.I use this board to vent my anger at myself,through these other addicts.I just went to far,sorry!
peace,
bmac
I'm curious as to why Methadone is prescribed for long term maintenance for heroin withdrawal and for pain management when there is a viable alternative in buprenorphine/buprenex. Since you seem really knowledgeable, I was wondering if you have any information about the long term usage of buprenorphine and if the w/d's from this are comparable to Methadone withdrawals?
I only used bup for 2 weeks after coming off of Norco, I had NO withdrawals or negative effects when taking it after quitting the Norco and it was very easy to step down from 9 bup a day (the first day) to 1/2 a pill (.2 mg.) for the last 2 days because there is truly no incentive to take this other than to stave off withdrawals or for pain management. I noticed that bup also is a great pain reliever for moderate to moderately severe pain (I have herniated disks). I did experience very mild withdrawals for a couple of days after stopping the bup, but it was so mild that in retrospect, I tend to wonder why this isn't used more often?
I only used bup for 2 weeks after coming off of Norco, I had NO withdrawals or negative effects when taking it after quitting the Norco and it was very easy to step down from 9 bup a day (the first day) to 1/2 a pill (.2 mg.) for the last 2 days because there is truly no incentive to take this other than to stave off withdrawals or for pain management. I noticed that bup also is a great pain reliever for moderate to moderately severe pain (I have herniated disks). I did experience very mild withdrawals for a couple of days after stopping the bup, but it was so mild that in retrospect, I tend to wonder why this isn't used more often?
I wanted to thank you Dr. Mike for the encouragement you give to us here, it's great to have you on the forum.
Also, if you have any ideas/input as well in regard to my question directed to mrmichael above about buprenorphine, I would love to hear them.
Also, if you have any ideas/input as well in regard to my question directed to mrmichael above about buprenorphine, I would love to hear them.
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