Darvocet: Habit Forming Placebo?

[Yo_Tony]

I was recently prescribed Darvocet for a bicycle injury. But from what I've read on the Internet, it has all the bad qualities of a narcotic (very habit-forming) without being effective against pain (on a par with aspirin). I took one of the bright pink tablets and went to the mall last night with my wife. After 45 minutes, I was still hurting -- something that doesn't happen with Vicodin or even Ultram.

My doctor's okay with giving me Vicodin, but Vicodin makes me like that guy on the commercial. Someone says something to him and it takes him 20 seconds to respond. I also can't drive with the stuff.

But getting back to Darvocet -- if it's so horribly bad, why is it still available?

Thanks!

[someburd]

I completely agree with you. I have several chronic illnesses - lupus, migraines, ibs, depression, type 1 diabetes, and ADHD. Some days it takes all my willpower to get out of bed. But I go take my medicine and I face the day. At times I'm fueled by "better living through chemistry" but, hey, if people like me can't benefit from medical advancements then why the hell do we have them?
I live an extremely full life. I'm married with two teenagers who are very active in school activities. I teach children's art classes. I have my own art  and I have a blog where write art/craft book reviews for half a dozen major publishers. I'm expanding into product reviews. I make art samples for stores across the country for one of my publishers. I run an art journaling group on Facebook.
This would not be possible if I did not have a "trust" relationship with both my doctors and my pharmacist. The pharmacist can refuse to fill two proscriptions for the same medicine in one month. Unless (s)he knows and trusts you. I've had the same ones for almost 12 years now. So develop a relationship. It's worth it in the long run.

[Ronsin]

I was on Darvons for 12 years .(the little pink 65 mg capsules,they are pure darvon with no asprin or tylenal). I was taking 10-12 a day. All they did was relax me,like a trank. They are only as strong as 2 asprins, but they are addicting as Methadone,since they are chemicaly almost the same. HERE IS THE HISTIORY OF MEADONE & DARVON.
During World War 2 the germans had a shortage of Morphine,so they deveoped a synthetic Morphine - METHADODNE. After the war the US tried  to take out the addictive part of methadone & came up with Darvon. Well they got it backwords.  Today is my 4th day off of it.(I am using the Thomas recipe) I felt ok untill today. this is my worst day.The worst part is the Restlis Leg Syndrome.(THIS IS ALSO A DESESE) You can get more info at http//www.rls.org.)(click on drug addiction) To some people the disese is so bad that they recomend Oxycodone, Methadone, Lorcet, Codene, Darvon,& Klonipin to conrol it. Klonipin is ok but only lasts an hour or 2,then I wake up & my legs feel like running from  Atlanic City to California, but the rest of my body wants to go back to sleep .Thats how bad RLS can be. If anyone knows a better treatmen for the legs, please let me know.(I tried bannanas,& hot baths.)Didn't help.

[Gtarnut]

I suffered a ruptured disk a year and a half ago. I am in constant chronic pain, but still need to function at a high level with my job. I have had surgery, with no success. I have taken everything possible to alleviate pain in the past 16 months. Oxycontin, Percocet, Vicodin, Darvon N-100's, Tramadol, Neurontin, you name it ...I have a sympathetic Back doctor who trusts me that I am telling him the truth, and not just pumping him for drugs. I have found that Vicodin is the best combination of pain suppression and low-side effects. Oxycontin was too "Buzzy and floaty", Darvon were a joke, Tramadol was ok, Percocets were too "heavy", Neurontin was a drowsy drug, but Vicodin did it for me. I suspect that different people's bodies handle this issue of chronic pain resolution by medication differently. For example,I don't drink alchohol. The drug alchohol reacts strongly with me, and I don't like the effects. However, I know people who can drink a case of beer, and still stand up...I have taken different medications at different times in my life for different desired side effects. Having trouble sleeping because of the pain? Have your Dr. prescribe percocet 5/325's. Need to be productive in spite of your pain?Talk to him about Vicodin ...Need to be comfortable, yet coherent despite the pain? A regimen of Tramadol and Neurontin works wonders with some people ...I don't think this type of "self directed course of medication" is abuse... I am a responsible adult with an unfortunate physical situation that places me in alot of pain. I just can't crawl into a corner and give up...I choose to NOT be in pain by using medicines, and using different ones in different strengths depending on what I have to do at that particular point in the day. I don't take drugs to get "high". I take them to have a reasonable quality of life and still be a productive member of the local business community. Maybe what's missing between members and their Physicians is "Trust". Get to know your Doctor, and find a specialist who really does care, and is willing to listen to your feedback about your medicines, and adjust your dosages and types of medicine to accomodate your particular situation. That makes sense to me, and it has worked for me.

[hellbent]

One 80mg pill of oxycontin is exactly equal to 16 percs. But, you can ramp up a tolerance very quickly if you choose to chew them and do an end-around the time-release.

I was taking the equivalent of 160 percs, every day. Now, before OC's were launched onto the public in 1996, I doubt many people had ever had that kind of habit with percs. Who really knows what that kind of amount will do to someone long-term. So, in effect, it is much like a new drug.

[alexandra_r]

Yeah--when I see oxy, I think of oxycontin (which I think are a lot harder to get than percs).  There's lots of drug stores that have signs up saying that they don't sell oxycontin anymore.  So, the experience people have with oxy is different than percs.  I think though, that it is mostly due to the fact that oxycontin breaks down to a shootable form (without doing the cold water extraction you have to do with hydro or percs).  So, even though it is the same drug, the way that it is processed makes it very different.

[kell737]

Well, I apologize about "most" people referring to Oxycontin as "oxy".  Percocet is "oxy" as well and they are the same thing.... if you look them up on drug profiles or ask a doctor they will tell you it's the same thing, only oxycontin is time released.  It's not  really stronger either, for example, 5mg of oxycontin is NOT stronger then 5 mg of percocet because the pill is only releasing 2.5 mg of the drug every 6 hours.   Oxycontin was put on the market so doctors wouldnt prescribe as much percocet to patients (one of the reasons anyway) ....  you only have to take it twice a day (usually) compared to percocet (oxycodone)  is taken every 4-6 hours.

My shorts weren't in a knot LOL ... I don't knot my shorts for anyone <wink> .... Just trying to clarify that I did NOT say the dentist gave me Oxycontin  and here where I'm live people refer to  oxycontin as "oxycontin" and they refer to percocet as "oxycodone"  (which is the generic for percocet)

No hard feelings, you can't really express and show emotions through typing like this, I wasn't being a smartass and I'm sorry if I came across that way.   Hope your having a good weekend!

~Kell

[hellbent]

oxycodone is the active ingredient in all the perc_ drugs, as well as oxycontin. It's all the same drug, and the only variable is the amount.

[alexandra_r]

I was responding to what mrmichael wrote about not believing that you got oxy's for a toothache.  Perhaps it is just semantics--most people I know refer to oxy's as oxycontin (which is MUCH stronger--not just time released) than percodan/percoset.  Most people I know refer to oxycontin as oxy and percodans/percocet as percs.  I believe Mr. Michael also thought you meant oxycontin--even though the active ingredient is the same, they are different drugs.  After all, percodan is NOT oxycontin and vice versa.

Perhaps I have been reading this board wrong, but I have always thought that people referring to oxy meant oxycontin.  Just trying to clarify, so you can get your shorts out of that knot!  =)

[kell737]

I used to go to the doctor and tell him I had a freakin headache, or I would tell him My tooth was hurting and I would get a prescription for 15-20 oxys!


    That is what I typed, and percocet is OXYcodone , which is what I was referring to.  AND......Oxycotin IS percocet, just a time released form of it.  I know what Oxycontin is and I know what Oxycodone is.  I never posted anything about a dentist giving me oxycontin,  I said "oxys"!  I cut and pasted what I said at the top or you can go back and read it for yourself.  

~Kell

[alexandra_r]

I think that's why the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic used Darvon N's to withdraw people from heroin and methadone.  For me, these things took a _little_ bit of the edge off, but offered me ABSOLUTELY nothing as far as a high goes (course, I was up to a couple hundred smackers of junk at this time so probably a drug store of opiates/opioids wouldn't have made a dent).  I now hear that the HFC only gives narcotics (darvon + benzo's) for the 1st few days and then puts people on the Clonidine patch.

[hellbent]

Yes, propoxyphene is a synthetic narcotic, just like oxycodone, hydrocodone, dilaudid, fentanyl, demerol, etc... Technically these are called opiods, as opposed to opiates.

I used to have to take 3 or more darvocets for any kind of buzz. They worked wonders for headaches too, at least for me. They are less addictive than stronger opiods, and work well for tapering down from them.

[AlexisInTx]

In regard to dentists (or oral surgeons, in my case) prescribing Percodan/Percoset, etc., I also had 4 impacted wisdom teeth removed and was given a prescription for Percodan, I believe the prescription amount was between 15-20.  This was when I was 20 years old (*years* before I had an addiction problem), and I did NOT enjoy the feeling from these pain meds, just received adequate pain relief.  My jaw was swollen, which can happen after oral surgery and the pain was acute.  If I hadn't had that prescription, I know I couldn't have slept for days and would have been absolutely miserable.  I think it's standard practice (and practice that I personally agree with) that an oral surgeon, dentist, whomever CAN prescribe adequate pain relief after wisdom teeth extraction or any other dental work, etc.

IMHO, the problem lies within the fact that the health care practitioner doesn't take the individual patients' care into account, and arbitrarily prescribes MORE or LESS of the narcotic when they should not/should be, not with prescribing the narcotic for TRUE pain relief to begin with.

[alexandra_r]

Actually, you said that the dentist prescribed you oxycontin for a toothache and oxycontin is NOT percocet.  You later said that he prescribed you oxycodone, which is percocet.  Oxycontin is longer acting and used to treat chronic pain (usually) rather than acute pain.  Percocet is like hydrocodone in that it is mixed with aceteminophen, or percodan (aspirin).  Oxycontin doesn't use fillers such as these, therefore it is more likely to be abused by those who want a "high" from it.  YOu see, you can crush oxycontin and snort or even shoot it.  I believe you just got your drugs mixed up, as I have also been prescribed percodan and percoset by dentists for acute pain.

[kell737]

Yes, I did get oxycodone (percocet) Many times for my teeth, when I had my wisdom teeth out, when I had an absess in my tooth and  I also received percocet  when I break my finger.  I think it's crazy as well, but many dentist give it out after tooth extraction (especially wisdom teeth) and alot give it for absess.  

As far as the Narcotics comment,  I didnt say anything about that.  I  simply said Narcotics are for people in pain. (excuse me I said "terminally ill" but those people are usually IN pain)   I agree that it's useful.  Never said it wasn't.  I just think it's crazy to get that kind of drug for teeth and headaches and other minor stuff.  Hell, here where I'm at you can go to the ER with a stomach ache and they will give you percocet or vicodin!  I was telling yo_tony that Darvocet was addicting.  There shouldn't be doctors like that.  Those kind of drugs should be given for moderate to severe pain which IS how there labeled.  

Yo_tony....
Darvocet doesn't work for a lot of people as far as pain relief, but the propoxyphene is what's addicting. And I'm like you, Vicodin knocks me out as far as driving.  No way.  I wouldn't dare get behind the wheel on that stuff, other people it effects differently.

~kell

[Yo_Tony]

Thanks for your responses. Man, I never thought I'd hear someone say they got high from Darvocet. I take one and can barely tell I've taken anything. From what I've been able to tell, propoxyphene is a synthetic narcotic, kind of like methadone. Very addicting. As I said in my earlier post, Vicodin is great for my pain, but I certainly can't drive or work while taking it.

Darvocet doesn't make me drowsy, doesn't relieve the pain and most certainly never made me high. Oxycontin, yes, I can see why it would be popular. But I've talked to people who won't take it because they don't like that detached, floaty feeling or the waves of euphoria. I've seen people take one and flush the rest. I've found it pretty much takes care of every pain in my body.

But doctors to prescribe Oxycontin? It'd probably take me days to find one. The docs I go to are scared of the feds. Fortunately, Vicodin works for the most part and my rib pain begins, for the most part, when I get home at the end of the day. So things are managable.

Darvocet, however, is a waste. No pain relief, but terribly addicting. Reckon it's good for people who can't take aspirin. Sometimes I fear the acetaminophen more than the narcotic.

[hellbent]

Darvocet is definitely a synthetic opiate, and is addictive. It also used to get me high, more effectively than codeine, but not as good as hydrocodone. It is much better on pain than anything over the counter, as it has all the pain-blocking properties of the stroger opiods.

I would look up some medical whitepapers yourself online for questions like this.

[mrmichael67]

You got oxy's for a toothache?  I am surprised that dentist is still in business.  That is not normal.  9,999 out of 10,000 WON'T give oxys for a toothache.  They aren't labeled for acute pain, let alone a toothache.  And, to answer the question why narcotics are still available;  They are available because they are valuable for pain relief.  Until they come up with something that actually works for severe pain, they are all that we have.  They should be available.  Actually, they should be MORE available.  Too many people in pain can't get meds.

[kell737]

Hi there.  YES!!!!  Darvocet is very addictive.  Some doctors consider it to be a Narcotic but some dont.  It's a controlled sustance however and  the propoxyphene in the drug is what's habit forming.  It's not only mentally addictive but it's physically as well.   As far as why they have this stuff on the market is because a lot of terminally ill patients need these kind of drugs.  I think the problem is doctors that presribe Percocet (oxy) and other strong Narcotic for a TOOTHACHE!!  Thats what is crazy.  I used to go to the doctor and tell him I had a freakin headache, or I would tell him My tooth was hurting and I would get a prescription for 15-20 oxys!  Amazing how easy you can get it.  Just be careful with Darvocet because it IS VERY habit forming!  Good luck!

~kell

[luvgordo24]

I have a study right here in my hand that I got off the internet that says darvocet is NO MORE effective than aspirin.  I knew that before I read it.

They also say darvocet is dangerous because with propoxyphene there is a fine line between a therapuetic dose and a toxic dose and many addicts (and non-addicts) don't get pain relief and continue to take more and more until they keel over.

Flush that ****!

[SmokethisVette]

Hey hey there...
I am not sure why ANY of these meds are still available!! Including OXY...if there is so much media on the dam medicine...why do they still give it out...good question dude!! I, personally, have had the worst time with Darvocet...everytime I would take it...one: I would get the worst stomach ache and second: I would feel like I was going to die!! I mean I literally felt like the life was being drained from me!! I was given those darn pills first before I had ever had Vicodin...and I am glad that Darvocet was not the only drug available!! Vicodin does everything good and makes me feel on top of the world? Now my question to you is...are you now back taking the Darv's or are you taking the Vic's? Either way they are BOTH addicting because they are BOTH narcotics!! I am sure you know that, but to me Darv's are much weaker than Vicodin...but that is my opinion!! Good luck in your journey down the hall of medicine land and I hope you get your pain under control!! Best of luck to you, and keep your head up!!
Christine