How to quit benzodiazapines after 22 years of usage?

[angst]

I have PTSD and borderline personality d/o.  I am not a strong borderline.  I hold down jobs for long periods and I'm not sexually overactive.  I've been in therapy for 7 years with a PhD in psychology.  All my doctors, since I was 14 years old have placed me on one or another benzo.  I've tried SSRI's and the new neuroleptics.  I've tried all the new anticonvulsants.  I am a nurse without a license because of my addiction to opiates.  I live in a state where methadone is illegal for treatment.  I travel across state line to obtain it.  This time it saved my life.  I do not misuse the xanax or whatever benzo I am taking at the time.  I know one of the side effects is memory loss.  I cannot function without it.  I am home bound.  I cannot work, take my child for outings, or drive.  Will I ever be able to get off the benzodiazapines like the licensure board wants.  I do not want to practice nursing right now.  I do not want to be around the drugs.  I am changing my career.  Do I need a good psychiatrist instead of my internist who treats me for asthma.
Asthma is another reason I take the benzodiazapines.  A SL xanax will help stop a broncospasm after I've had my albuterol inhaler much quicker than without the xanax.  What are your thoughts?  I always tell my doctors that I am an opiate addict on methadone.  I give them a list of all my meds.  I take trazadone to help sleep.  But I usually get less than 18 hours of sleep anyway.  Can you help?

[jafco]

Read my response to your post under the "Xanax" thread. You need to get on a longer acting benzo like Klonopin. They also suggest taking Tegretol too. You need to reduce the dosages VERY gradually. Here is the link I provided earlier.

http://members.dencity.com/BenzoBusters/xanaxbusters1.htm

Jafco

[angst]

Thanks for the link.  I just wonder why I should change meds if they are working for me?

[jafco]

I must have misunderstood. I know they are working for you, they do for me as well, but I thought you wanted to get off this stuff. The reason for changing is that it is much easier to wean yourself off of a longer acting benzo than a shorter acting benzo like Xanax. Your a nurse, so I'm sure you understand about the different half lives of certain drugs. I would imagine you probably know more than I do. I'm by no means an expert, but I have done quite a bit of research into this and it seems to make very good sense.

God Bless

Jafco

[Creamie]

I've also been on xanax a long time, doin, an average of 2mg day, I have 75 of the 0.5's would like to be off in a month. The site you posted, I cannot get on. AOL won't accept the address. Any suggestions? Thanks...Nancy

[jafco]

The link is good, I just tried it out. Just copy and paste it into your browser and it will work.

Here is how you do that if you don't know already.

Highlight the link that I provided by dragging your mouse over it while holding down the left mouse button.

Then press CTRL C on your keyboard to copy it.

Go to your browser, click where you would normally type the address and press CTRL V to paste it in.

Then press Go or whatever on your browser.

If your typing it in manually, make sure you have not made any typographical errors.

Jafco

[Seamstress]

I am currently detoxing from Xanax - 6 mgs a day habit.  I abused it for about 6 years on and off, mostly on.  I used to be able to just stop but the last time I tried I started hallucinating and having extreme depersonalization and really weird spasms of whole muscle groups.  I was told by a doctor that these were a form of seizures and I was about to have real seizures.  Fortunatly for me, I couldn't take it and caved and took some Xanax.  A whole handful to be exact which could have been as much as 10 mgs.  At that point, I didn't care. It was too scary to continue.

I have since switched to Valium and am at the end of a long valium taper.  This is the way to go, trust me. Slow and easy with a long acting benzo. Withdrawl symptoms are minimal and even when they're bad, only last a couple of days. This is the same theory mentioned by jafco re using klonopin except valium is even longer acting.  

I have also been diagnosed with BPD, also mild and I am not entirely convinced that it was not mini withdrawls which can produce identical symptoms.  Before I abused Xanax, I was an alcoholic and alcohol detox is very similar.  I noticed the onset of the rage when I quit drinking. The borderline stuff is manageable without benzos cause I've done it. I am an active person and when I feel one of the episodes coming on, I jog.  Unless it's midnight.  Then I pace until I wear myself out. It really helps to have a person in your life who will set limits on your behavior.  Because if they won't let you go there, you won't. BPD behavior can be very intimidating to some folks as I'm sure you're aware. Which is why it is repeated. It produces a reinforcing effect. But if the person on the receiving end can be tougher or meaner than you, you'll learn real fast that there are other ways to cope. Anyway, as I mentioned I think the wd exacerbates it, so you need to be on top of it before you attempt your taper.

I wish you luck.

[angst]

I went to the doctor today and he agrees to keep me on xanax 2mg 4 times a day.  With my asthma, and post heart attact, he does not want to change anything.  It was his nurse, who tried without his knowledge to cut me back 2mg per day each week. He said he would call in my medication.  I should not take short cuts, but to speak to him.  I need the fast action for asthma, but I do not know if I will stay on the xanax for years.  Valium bottoms out my mood, but I can take klonopin.  I took it for years with good results.  Thanks for all the advice.

[jafco]

They like to use Klonopin over Valium because it has some very potent anticonvulsant properties, so does the Tegretol. It's all in the article so I won't go on about it. If you need the rapid action now, so be it. But if and when you do decide to come off, Klonopin is the way to go, especially since you've stated Valium is not an option for you.

Actually there is another take on this using Valium as stated by seamstress. If anyone is interested here is the hyperlink.

http://www.benzodiazepine.org/Taper.html

I guess it all depends on your situation, even the experts seem to have different opinions on this.

Jafco

[angst]

When I entered my last rehab for having a positive UDS at work.  I am an RN and worked in a busy, poor private hospital.  They took me off the xanax completely and put me on phenobarb for a couple of weeks.  That is when I had the heart attack.  The phenobarb did nothing for me except give me a terrible headache.  I know it is a potent barbituate.  I sister took it for epilepsy for over 30 years.  I was on 360mg/day for 3 days, then 270/day for 3 days, then 180mg etc...  It almost killed me.
So the experts do not always know what is best.  The doctors were from various backgrounds with a history of substance abuse themselves and had become addictionologists.  I will stick with this for now.  I do not know if I'll continue this for another year.  I cannot see that far ahead.  My detox off methadone and any other drug is in my control right now.  I do not dose on methadone at the highest dose, but I am on 90 mg.  I will probably drop to 80mg in the next month.  I was on 80mg until I had a total abdominal hysterectomy and oral surgery right behind each other.  Thanks for all the advise.  Honestly, being dependent on anything bothers me.  What if I wake up one day and it is not there?

[jafco]

It's sounds like you have been through alot and I wish you well. Do what you need to do to have the best quality of life you can, even if it involves medication for now. I know that feeling about not having the meds there for you. It's not a good feeling, which is one of the reasons why I quit. I just got tired of spending all my time worrying when I'm going to run out and if I'm going to able to get my prescription refilled early. Or if they were going to cut me off all together. I agree that there are a lot of different opinions on how to manage addiction. The most important thing is that it is safely and compassionately done. So go with what feels right for you.

All the best

Jafco

[Seamstress]

I had a friend who did the phenobarb taper. She didn't have any of your problems but she did suffer protracted withdrawl which thankfully, has resloved after 6 months of hell.  I'd never recommend that.  As Jafco points out, if the medication is necessary for you quality of life, then by all means stay on it. There is a big difference between addiction and dependency.  As an addict and abuser, I can tell you that.  I wish I could take it responsibly because I believe it would help me but unfortunately, that's not in the cards for me.

[angst]

I can manange to take the xanax as prescribed.  The doctor would be upset with me if I came back early or started doctor hopping.
I'm lucky to have him, and I do not want to risk losing him.  He knows I am on methadone.  I get 6 take outs and do not abuse them.  The thought of not having my dose for the next day keeps me straight.  Thanks for the support.  Excuse my ignorance, but what is protracted withdrawal?

[skipper]

angst:
welcome to the forum, always room for just one more addict, come
in!

about the benzo's...ithink your best bet is klonopin, but maybe
your doc has more insight. i've never (yet) been addicted to
benzos, but back in the mid 70's i had me a ripper of a penta-
barb habit. i was working in a medical research unit and had ac-
cess to 100 ml vials of pentabarbitol. i think there was 300 mg./
ml/ (5 grains). i used to wake up with rug burns from my face to
my feet after a good night of shooting that pure **** into my
veins. at the lab it was used for "putting down dogs" (1 ml for
every 2 kilograms)

i was detoxed in a psych ward. they used the Berkly Method, which
involves switching you over to pheno-barb. i had several seisures
and *word salad* (know what that is? if so i feel sorry for you).
they dosed me with 1/4 grain phenos. my early doses filled dixy-
cups! i think it took a total of about 12 weeks to detox me.
there are beter methods in use now. i believe the berkly method
is one of the cruelest ways to go. it got me off that **** though

the worst drug i've ever w/d from were barbs. i've since been an
extensive opiate abuser. opiate w/d is a childs cake walk com-
pared to barb w/d!

i wish you the best of luck getting off the methadone. just keep
telling yourself "if it doesn't kill me (getting off it), it will
make me stronger!

please keep posting and keep an angel on your shoulder!
kip

[cindi]

they detoxed me from barbs when I did the treatment thing in 89  i think i was using nembutal,,seconal  somthing along those lines  I actually can't remember  i was stealing so much i actually forget the drugs i used but that is when i got off the demerol etc..so i had to be detoxed from benzos,,(valium etc) opiates and barbiturates I don't know which wd was worse since I did it all at the same time...love cin

[angst]

I know what word salad is.  My sister is a bad epileptic.  Man, we are blessed without that diagnosis.  I am okay for now.  I gotta go for a job interview and to check on my sister.  Her phone is disconnected.  Money only goes so far, especially with her bunch of beer drinkers and pot smokers.  I love them all though.  I will not subject myself to another rehab without knowing EXACTLY what i'm gettng myself into unless I'm beyond the point of knowing.  I hope never to get there again.  Thanks for all the advice.  I posted a note about buprenex on one of the other forums.  It is from my nursing experience.  Just a thought.  No harm intended.  We all need to get well.

[Seamstress]

Protracted withdrawl is a syndrome in which withdrawl symptoms persist long after the drug is discontinued.  Sometimes up to a year.  It is caused by the length of time it takes brain receptors to heal.  Detoxing too quickly seems to cause it for some reason while a slow taper has better results. My friend had symptoms for several months following her one week detox which apparently is average for the syndrome. As for me, I'm at the end of my taper and no anxiety or shakiness.  Some insomnia but I had that before I started the benzos..it was one of the reasons I took them, so it probably is just the reemergence of an underlying condition.

[angst]

I hope I got the nickname right.  That sounds terrible.  I probably would have been in that shape if I had stayed on the rehabs recipe of 5 drugs for my xanax.  I was pretty messed up when I got out of that place.  My psyche is building itself up more by the day.  I feel more real and less surreal.  Thanks for the answer.

[Seamstress]

Yes, the docs will sometimes make you worse than you were before you started.  That's why it's important to find a good one. Someone, I think it was Jafco, posted a link to ASAM which is a good place to start looking.  It sounds like you're doing much better.  And if you need to take a med for whatever reason, there's nothing wrong with that. Benzos are real life savers for many people.

[angst]

It takes one who has suffered to understand someone like me.  I appreciate you so much.  I have taken grief over the xanax.  I do not over use it.  My doctor would cut me off in a hurry.  He keeps my asthma under control.  Right now, i'm battling bronchitis and sinusitis.  Not a big deal, unless you have asthma.  The meds make me so shaky.  So forgive the typo's and half sentences.  In the back of my mind, I still worry about the day my doctor retires or something.  
That is sick thinking.  I need to stay in the here and now.  I have plenty to think about and do.  I think I will call on one of my affluent older contacts to try to get a job.  With my ex-husband being the fire chief you'd think I could get a job.  I have a person who tries to sabotoge everything in my life.  i hope she is not interested in me these days, but I got a call last thursday.  I picked up on the  5th ring.  I heard her tell another person, "i let it ring and ring, she's not there.".  I hurt this person, tried to make amends, but she is obsessed with me hurting every day of life.  I did a terrible thing to her, but it is over.  Maybe not with her other half, he would bring me up just to make her feel low.  He is an M.D. and the most narcistic person i've ever met.  He is brillant, but he has issues, and i mean issues.  I hope she leaves me along.  She is old enough to be my mother.  I'm truly sorry that I hurt her.  What else can I do?

[Seamstress]

This is a really bad time of year for asthmatics.  All that pollen.  I will never understand why people carry grudges.  Look at it this way.  It hurts them more than you because it will eat them up inside. You made amends and let it go, so you are a much better person and probably a happier one because of that. And you're probably right that at some point, she'll lose interest in you or find someone else to torment.

[tlk]

Angst, I'm sorry for the problems. I too have a person, a woman who I never did a thing to, who wants to hurt me. Also a man who I don't even know, who hates me as well. I know why: I was the sheriff's right-hand-girl. Everyone thought we were having an affair (he's old enough to be my dad) which I most certainly was not, although he wanted to. Anyway after I quit my job, they actually called the media and said I was suing the sheriff for sexual harrasment. They would call my mother-in-law in the middle of the night. The man had been fired and hated me; I don't know why the woman did it. It's terrible, having someone hate you. If you made amends, try to let it go. Screw em. If they can't get a life and have to ruin yours, they are the ones with the problems. You can do nothing else, so don't waste your energy on it. It's tough; I hurt people too and am trying to forgive myself. In this case making amends directly would hurt them more. I screwed up my life so bad; ruined my reputation, my career, and almost my family. Please know you are not alone. I hope you feel better.

[angst]

Thanks.  I did have the affair with the woman's husband.  Mother had just died and even though I was married, I needed this man.  If for nothing else, to help me forget the pain of losing her.  He had affairs before me and probably after me, but I really scared her.  He loved me, and rubbed her face in it too many times.  She was an administrator where I worked.  She had me transferred to all kinds of floors for a month or two.  I loved my job until she made it a living hell.  I asked for it.  I should have left her man alone.  If mother had been alive, she would have told me so.  I lost my man in that respect.  He is still good to me, but he will never trust me again.  I accept responsibility for of all of it, even the doctor's part.  We were together 3 years.  It has been over for 2 years and she still calls here.  I will not move and leave my child.  That is why he and I never got together.  He wanted to leave together, relocate so she could not fool with his practice and life.  Never ask your lover to choose between you and her child.  I could not.  It caused a lot of heart ache.  I'm almost over it.

[tlk]

Oh Angst, I am sorry. But don't blame yourself for HIS actions. Take responsibility for what you did, but his wife cannot hold you guilty for what HE did. You did not cheat on her; you did not commit adultery against her even in the legal sense! What happened is between you and your husband, and between him and his wife. She may not accept that but you must, and block her out of your life. I know it sucks having someone hate you like that, and you probably feel like a horrible person. You aren't. You are human. You made a mistake, or maybe you just did what you had to at the time. We've all been there.
How old is your daughter? You have to forgive yourself. Your husband has to forgive you (if he knows). You have to move on. If you are still together, have you thought of renewing your vows? It can be very healing, because you are making a new start. Just a thought...
Remember, the mistakes you make are what make you the person you are now. Of all the horrible things I've done, there are only a few I truly would change. The rest made me grow and change. Some were just so bad they weren't worth any amount of growth! But I'm trying to channel even those, using them for my writing, trying to get something out of this ****!
If you want to talk, let me know. I can sympathize. tlk

[oh please already]

well good morning! here i was whining on the other borud and you still took the time for me.  :) you made me relize something else,i too have been using my inhalers a lot too( STRESS I GUESS) and i forgot how jumpy that stuff makes me-  anyway just a note to let you and everyone to know im loving you and just so thankful ,without every one here i would be without hope      laura