Day 2 without Hydro

[Ketta]

Had surgery 5 weeks ago and been on hydro. approx 14 5-500 mg. per day. I stepped down the last ten days to 2-4 5-500 mg. per day. I was irritated yesterday and had definite withdrawal symptoms. The problem is I know I can get more and don't want to do so because I have to get off them sometime, right. I am recovering from ovarian cancer and still have pain. I can't discern if it warrants meds or is withdrawal.  How much worse can I expect the symptoms this next 24hrs. is the worst behind me? and I stepped myself down after reading this site. My doc. did not discuss this process and I wish he had. I was not able to go as slowly as has been recommended here. If anyone would like to share you can email me at ***@****. thanks.

[OxyDout]

the worst is unfortunately in front of you, the next 48-72 hrs are going to be the worst...... if you have any questions feel free to ask.

[DMR]

Hello Everyone,

I have been on Vicoprofen (on and off) for the past 6 months...taking about 2-3 a day.  These are for my upper and lower back pain. My back pain is getting a lot better.  Sometimes its even non-existant.  But why do I keep telling my doctor that I still have the pain?  I shouldn't really be on these pills.  I think I am taking them now just for the "effect"

I don't want to be a junkie...please help

What are the withdrawls?  How do I stop the craving ????

[captain_doji]

Hello everyone. I have been reading this forum the last few days. I found it by doing a search for hydrocodone. I have been clean for a little over 4 years..till last week. Hydrocodone was and apparently still is my drug of choice. I have been an addict since 1989. The last 4 years I have been drug and alcohol free and life has been wonderful. During a routine visit to my internist last week my ears heard my mouth say.."I'd like you to prescribe me an analgesic for these headaches I've been having". Within an hour of leaving his office I was loaded on a couple of Lortabs.
This is my third vist to this Dr. and unlike my previous one who moved from the state last fall he does not know of my history with drug addiction. In less than a week the 30 pills are gone and I'm yawning with a runny nose. What a *****. Anyway, I know what to do..I've been here many times. Just needed a place to purge my thoughts. Would be willing to share my story with anyone who is interested. Thanks

[Unwise]

I, too, was clean for three years and then all it took was one little pill to get me back to where I started from.  I never thought this would happen, because I was so happy being off of vicodin and especially the burden of counting pills, figuring out how much I had before I ran out, where I was going to get it next...you know the drill.

I had put all that behind me, and then I blew it, thinking I could take just one to get through a rough patch.  I was an idiot, and my brain was screaming "Don't do it!"

Regarding the question of withdrawal that was posted here, you can find plenty of descriptions of it on this forum and elswhere on the web.  Check out the "Hydrocodone Withdrawal" thread on this forum as well as other similar threads.  Use a search engine and check out "vicodin withdrawal" "Hydrocodone withdrawal," etc. Also check out the archives on this site and do a search.

Ah, withdrawal....You can expect the runs, total lack of energy, extreme body aches and pains, flu-like symptoms, and depression, among other delightful things like vomiting, the sweats, and spastic convulsions.  If you have a heavy habit like I did three years ago and quit cold turkey, you run the risk of having a seizure.  I had two gran mal seizures in one night, less than two days after quitting cold turkey, and they almost killed me.  This is why I would suggest tapering down, though it's a ***** and takes will power, because it will make your withdrawal less drastic, although you can count on it being unpleasant no matter what.  It's the price you pay for all the artificial joy those little pills have given you, and you can expect the worst of it to last from two to three days, with at least a week or two of feeling generally rotten after that.  The trick is to stay off once you go through the detox.  I have checked out "The Rcipe" for detox and there are those who say it works, so it may be worth looking into.  Unfortunately, I cannot access the forum on which it is posted, but I'm sure there are those who post here who know about it and can either point you to another place where it is posted or give you the ingredients.  It is discussed in some of the other threads on this forum.  

Good luck to all of you and thanks for sharing.  Sorry to hear you wound up in the same boat as I did, Captain, but hopefully we will be able to use our prior knowledge to steer ourselves out of these troubled waters again...and once and for all.

Peace.

[Ketta]

Has anyone ever been "busted" by the doc.? I was after seeing many to get stuff and one pulled up a history sheet from the ins. co.! A year later I got the cancer diagnosis and am fighting calling in a request for refill. I really like my oncologist and don't want to sour what will likely be a long relationship (well, if he's any good:)  Like it says, I've got almost 2 whole days done without anything and am fighting the mental gremlins.

[vikequeen]

I too am going thru the same hydrocodone ****. Vicodin was my drug of choice. I started again a few times last year by going to speacialists under my plan who knew nothing of my history. In September I started a job working in an old friends home daycare and found out that she was a bigtime percocet user. Now sad to say that most weeks I get paid in pills instead of money. Last fri I went to see my orthopaedic surgeon fora legitamate problem and ended up getting 100 5mg vics Today after selling her 25 and the pharmacy even shorted me ten JUst my luck!! lol try proving THAT! I am all out and am just starting to feel like hell, A feeling I know all to well, and to top it all off she has none except what she needs to keep from being sick soooooo...  there you have it. I so want to go into an outpatient detox but since having done so many times before I feel like it will be my punishment to go thru it. Baddgirl

[captain_doji]

Bgirl..or anyone, if you would like to chat online email me at ***@**** and I will give you my icq# or AOL IM nick. Just reading these responses helps me quite a bit.

[Unwise]

Ooooooh, I know the feeling, girl.  I've thought of checking into detox myself, only to remember that it never worked the first time around and I was using again within two weeks of getting out.  It certainly made coming off this **** much easier, but as you imply, almost too easy.  As in Skinnerian conditioning, the body responds to stimuli, and the stimuli of the extreme pain and suffering of withdrawal will stay with you and might just frighten you enough to make you not get back on the junk.  Just the thought of that misrable hospital gives me the shivers--a low point in my life, missing my daughter's first birthday because I was in a mental ward.  And having her visit me with her mother in that cold, spartan cell of a room...with no idea as to why daddy was such a mess and had to live in this horrible place.  Good god.  

As I wrote before, the only thing that finally made me stop were cold-turkey seizures that came this close to killing me.  After that, it was like someone had waved a magic wand and I simply didn't need anymore.  Same thing with smoking (a hangover from hell did the trick), cocaine (severe hallucinations and ideations of suicide scared me straight), and with pot, well, I just woke up one mornng and was bored of it.  So we all solve these things differently.  Personally, I feel one can only truly quit from a having a sincere desire within one's self to do so, coupled with a traumatic "rock bottom" ordeal."  The AA/group thing, for me, only prolongs the inevitable by reinforcing the belief that we are helpless, which I feel that we are most definitely not.  I know AA/NA works for some, and my hat's off to them, but it doesn't help me at all.  Quitting is ultimately a very personal, lonely, and spiritual journey in the sense that you must face the worst part of yourself and reconcile it with the good part.  Having a forum like this is a godsend, because there are no 12-steps, no rules, no one twisting your arm to admit that you're a helplessness sack of **** and only God can sace you, or pointing their fingers and shouting "denial."  (Though you do have the occasional Jesus Freak who writes in all caps and promises eternal damnation if you don't take the highway to heaven).  To hell with all that. Sorry to offend any true believers, it's just my two cents, and like I said, if 12 stepping works for you then keep marching.  For the rest of us who are strong enough to know that there really is more than just one way out of the darkness, do what works for you.  Everyone here has been honest enough to sit down and write down their miserable little problems and ask for some help or at least a sympathetic ear.  That is the human spirit in action, and I for one believe that it is more powerful than the little pill in the bottle that is singing my favorite song.  They irony of your name, Baddgirl, does not escape me, for you are good enough to come here and tell your tale in hopes of somehow finding the strength and the insight to get out of your mess.  In that way you are like all of us.  I have no idea who all of you are, but I consider you all to be fine human beings and my friends.   Perhaps a live group chat would be in order sometime.  Maybe that's somethng we can work towards.  In the meantime, anyone can write me at ***@**** if they want to talk one-on-one.  I'll have to dust off the icq or IM if anyone wants to chat, but I would be up for that, too if it would help you--and if I can find the time.  

Bottom line: I managed to be happily sober for three years without group meetings, shrinks, or medication.  If I can do it, anyone can.

Whatever path you choose, I wish all of you, as always, the best of luck.  There is hope...and you are not alone.

Peace.

[radioboy74]

Is ther a diffence in the 2?  Opiod and Opiate?  And the 2nd question is do they appear differently in a drug test?

[Unwise]

Yes, there is a difference.  According to Taber's Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary, an opiate is any drug containing or derived from opium.  An opioid is non-opium derived synthetic narcotics.

By definition, both appear to be narcotics, just with different origins.

Hope this helps.

[Schlub]

Well, I was clean 18 years until a series of 5 root cnals in one year led me to reacquire my "taste" for opiates.

I'm going to quit this weekend with the aid of Buprenex, a "partial" opiate that will relieve many of the withdrawal symptoms of early detox.

But the I'll have to face what every recovering addict faces: after the phsyica;l withdrawal symptoms subside (3-5 days), I'll still face days if not even a few weeks or more of debilitating lethargy and depression. That'll be a tough mountain to climb perhaps, but when I'm past it I will have regained my life and my freedom.

Definitely worth it, I'd say.

I also wanted to speak to some of your questions about withdrawal. Seizures are almost unheard of in opiate withdrawal (and I'm not talking about those convulsive leg-kicking tremors, but real seizures). Opiate withdrawal may make you feel like you're dying, but I'm not sure if there are any recorded cases of death from opiate withdrawal in and of itself.

So don't worry about dying from it. Especially those of you with habits of les than 6-9 months in duration, the withdrawal symptoms may be less serious than you imagine.

Valium will help. Clonidine. And of course Buprenex if you can get it. But bottom line, it's bad but not nearly as bad as the "panic of withdrawal" makes us think it is.

So stay with it. Get clean. Get your life back. And yes, it'll be a struggle, but not as big a struggle (physically, at least)as you might think. If it wasn't for the "withdrawal panic," you might just think you had a really bad flu for a few days.

Whatever. One thing is without doubt: the struggle is worth it!

No more lying and hiding and shame and self-loathing and wishing we were normal and wishoing we could turn back the clock and never have taken the first fix or pill. No more of that.

Just freedom again. Pride. Health and energy. And the knowledge that we have gotten our lives back at last.

[Seamstress]

The former poster made the mistake that so many people unfamiliar with 12 step programs make and that is eqauting powerlessness with helplessness or weakness which is not the case at all.  I submit my "strenght" is greater than his/hers because mine comes from my Higher Power whom I choose to call God. I urge all of you recovering to attend a 12 step meeting and decide for yourself. It does not require a belief in God as has also mistakenly been posted here.

It is possible to stay clean through sheer willpower fighting cravings and longing for that really great high.  And then there's sobriety that has quality of life and true recovery.  And for the great majority of addicts, that comes through working the 12 steps.  It's a fact.

And I'm not offended.  Most addicts have great difficulty with the concept of powerlessness.  The interesting thing is when you tell a person who is not an addict they usually understand it right away. It's only we addicts who fight it.

[littleguy]

It is true that opiate withdraw rarely includes seizing, UNLESS, you already have a low seizure threshhold.  So, if you have a seizure disorder and you are detoxing at home from opiates it is a good idea to have some anti seizure medication around.  Take it as soon as you start to feel 'strange'.

[captain_doji]

As a recovering addict with former dependance on valium I feel compelled to write about the the various strategies and recipes I have read from the archives over the last few days. The main reason I was able to get clean for a few years the last time was because my hydrocodone addiction had been augmented with an addiction to valium. The hell that I went through getting off valium made opiod detox seem like a walk in the park.
This horrible experience enlightened me. I became aware for the first time how fragile the mind is. And how easy it is to cross over from normal thought to irrational or even psychotic thinking.
Years of 12 step indoctrination never produced the behavioral modifications that were necessary for me to break free of my addictive lifestyle. But episodic, transitory, insanity from benzodiazepin  withdrawal did! This relapse of mine the past week with hydrocodone has reminded me just how much I love the warm and fuzzy feeling that it produces in me. But it also reminded me of the past hell that I always paid for achieving it. Maybe this week was my "Higher Power" sending me to continuing education class.
There is a book by Barbara Gordon called 'I'm Dancing as Fast as I can' that I would recommend to anyone who is contemplating either self administration of detox involving benzodiazepins or to anyone currently addicted to valium, ativan, xanax..etc.
Love and Mercy

[DMR]

Since I was on Vicoprofen (7.5/200) off and on...for only 6 months taking at most 4 or 5 pills in one day...and that too ONLY 3 or 4 times in those 6 months that I took 4 to 5 pills a day

Does this mean that I am NOT an addict ???

Does this also mean that I am NOT going to get withdrawls as severe as UNWISE or BADGIRL ???

I have 3 pills left and will buy L-Tyrosine today.  I am cutting those Vicoprofens in half and slowly tapering down....

SO am I out of the woods ????

UNWISE, Badgirl...please reply

Thanks
Feels like a family in here...

[mrmichael67]

If you keep going at the rate that you are going, you should be alright.  A couple of days of wd symptoms and lethargy followed by just lethargy afterwards.  The cravings are the part that is hard to predict.  If you are really taking the meds at the rate that you say, then you did yourself a big favor by not over doing it.  Your wd's will be a lot less than someone who has been glomming down the pills.

[mrmichael67]

At 6 months, you will feel withdrawal.  It is hard to predict how much, though.  If you have withdrawal, that doesn't mean that you are an addict.  It means that you have developed a physical dependence on the meds.

[DMR]

Thank you very much

I feel good that my withdrawls won't be bad
Is the L-Tyrosine will be help the withdrawls ?

[Seamstress]

Getting off benzodiazapines much more difficult than opiates.  This forum consists of mostly opiate addicts.  There is a benzo board you might want to check out that provides support for benzo w/d.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/benzo/messages

It addresses the special problems that benzo addicts deal with like protracted withdrawl symptoms. You are required to join to view it or post.

I love it when people use words like "indoctrination" and "cult" to describe AA/NA. Makes me think of basic training in the Army. Get sober or do 50 push ups. LOL.

Those who attend 12 step meetings can tell you there isn't a more supportive place for addicts in this world. Where else do you find "principles before personalites," and a spirtuality that endures the test of time. I walked in broken and was surrounded by unconditional love and gradually with the fellowship of the program and the 12 steps, I put the pieces back together. It has taken my cravings away, made me a more honest person and lifted a weight that I hadn't even know I was carrying for years. I am free at last. Must've been all the push ups :)

[Schlub]

What seamstress says about "powerlessness" and 12 step programs and the nature of true sobriety is worth listening to.

Of course, there is no objective evidence that more people are clean and sober in AA'NA as opposed to not being in AA/NA. 12 step programs work for many many people; many other people are successful using other approaches.

But the point is not whether AA is good (it is) or even necessary (for many it is, but not for all). The point is that if we want to stay clean and have any kind of life that's worth living, we need to do something more than simply NOT US E. Sobriety is not about white-knuckling and resisting cravings day after day. It's about achieving some sort of spiritual or emoptional rebirth that makes living without drugs actually feel better and more vibrant than living with drugs. It's not about "resisting urges," it's about gaining power through reclaiming our lives from the demon of addiction.

Many find that spiritual rebirth in AA -- there certainly is something magical and wonderful about sitting in a meeting and looking at the faces of all these people who should be dead from their addictions but are not. They're alive -- and more alive than ever before because of their feeling of emotional opr spiritual rebirth.

But many people also find their rebirth through friends, through fporums like these, through medittion, through their church, or simply by themselves. Many feel so much gratitude at having their lives restored, at not having to lie and hide and feel such shame and self-loathing anymore, that they're reborn.

Anyway, DMR -- you should not feel too bad withdrawal symtpoms. Maybe 1-2 nights that keep you up, some leg-kicking and tremors, maybe loose bowels, and of course the "panic of withdrawal." That's the worst and most dangerous part, and you will feel some of it. But resist ther panic -- it's only a mental state that is trying to drive you back to drugs. Just tell yourself you'll feel better in the morning, and almost certainly you will.

Good luck.

[Elvira]

Na and AA a cult?  LOL  I agree with you,  when you walk into the rooms of AA or NA you get people from all walks of life,,some giving good advice, some not so good advice and some give no advice at all   they are just there to listen.  What one person decides to do with what he is given when he wals into the rooms is entirely up to him  Obviously these people that have been clean and sober for a number of years have been free for a reason..everyone needs someone, we can't do this all alone and studies have shown over the past several years that the 12 steps do work.  AA AND NA are support systems, obviously support systems work,  If the programs are a cult then how exactly would we describe these forums?  a cult as well?  people come here for support, advice etc.  the same reason they attend NA and AA.  to find something they need  we basically get the same thing.  Only difference is the fact that we don't work the 12 steps..we discuss things,  how to get clean, how to stay clean and we even come to the boards with our own stories,our own problems,  looking for advice, crying, laughing and everything else they do at discussion meeting,,,most of us have a higher power,  some of us pray, some of us don't and it has even been said that alot of people that come to these forum do so because the computer is more convenient than taking   a shower, getting dressed and getting in the car.  Yet we would travel 300 miles if it meant getting drugs,   I apologize for getting in a soap box but when someone starts bashing AA or NA I have to step in and voice my opinion as we are all permitted to do on these boards,  I have never heard of a cult that has done any good for any cause where as NA and AA have done alot of good for millions of people  can't say that about cults     E.

[Schlub]

No sense getting all tied up in knots debating words like "cult."

Anyone with eyes to see ought to be able to see that AA and NA have helped millions of people recover their lives from the horrors (and I mean *horrors*) of addiction.

Not a whole lot of organizations can credibly claim to have helped save millions of people.

Now, this doesn't mean that AA and NA are for everyone, of course. Personally, I go to some meetings and get alot out of them at times, but I'm just not the sort of person (at least right now) who "works the steps" or quotes from "the big book."

But my God, how can there be any doubt that 12-step programs have done a lot of good in this sad world we live in? It shouldn't even be a debate.

[Annie2]

I took my last hydro's this morning....and I'm scared.  I wanted to taper off but can't get my hands on anymore.  I had a surgery to break my leg and re-align my knee joint on 07Jan02.  And I've been on pain meds ever since.  I've read the recipe...is that the best plan at this point?  I so badly wish I would have the opportunity to taper off after reading you stories.  I've been taking around 8-10 5 mg. Vicodins a day....and I'm very scared about withdrawal.  I quit one other time and had terrible withdrawal symptoms.  Any advice?

Thank you everyone for your time!!!!

[vikequeen]

Hello everyone. As far as the serverity of withdrawl it does depend on how many you are taking and how long you have been taking them. I have only been doing them for about 6 months and on some days I have only a theraputic dose and other days I have 12. But I also take other things like oxycontin wich are very bad and percocet in my opinion are not as bad as vics. I have been thru them all as well as experiancing with heroin(snorting only) for 6 months,I will tell you that coming off vicodin was way worse than detoxing from heroin, which tells you that the **** on the DC streets in so cut, Anyway I feel for anyone who is going thru withdrawls now. I unfortunatly got some vics from my employer cause she knows I cannot function if I am sick. I know this sounds self serving but I am not ready to quit yet I know there will come a time probably after my liver is on its last legs, As far as the question of wether or not you are an addict. You are an addict if you wake up thinking about the drug if it consumes your daily life. If you are having problems in your life due to your usage,Everynight I have the same dream, I am shopping in someones medicine cabinet looking for drugs. Baddgirl